Meltdown Update Preview

[frigid flax]

structure does the same thing

[pale python]

hmmm

[floral saffron]

ok but

[worn hound]

i'm not sure changing the geometry of the ship in real time like that would be the simplest thing

[next urchin]

The screenshot you posted earlier of the resource hit responses could be somewhat inline with this

[kind estuary]

highly recommend OC suggestions be isolated to a suggestion thread dedicated to OC suggestions. too easy to loose good ideas in a huge thread like this

[worn hound]

i agree

[wicked lotus]

Tbh I feel like that is something all shields should do, but maybe only once melee/ramming weapons actually exist. Think that was on the roadmap somewhere...

[pale python]

what exactly is a hitresponse?

[next urchin]

Absolutely not. Some things are better simple. The simplicity of some OCs is intentional. Particularly thrusters

[worn hound]

yea

i agree

reactors, thrusters, etc should just be reliable

bit better but reliable and predictable

[delicate moss]

honestly my one suggestion is just a better way to see that a pipe is moving an "energy type" or whatever you call the reso beam modifiers. Atm I feel like it's too vague and the complete lack of visual clarity is odd to me

[worn hound]

i do think overclocked reactors should have bigger explosions tho

[next urchin]

So the ammo hit response provides a chance per fire damage for ammo to explode. It's essentially HitEffects triggered on that resource tile taking certain types of damage

[pale python]

ok so if i understand it right to make it pass-through/battery i need to make the router point to all ports and one of the ports in the router needs to go into your internal components

[pale python]

makes sense

[worn hound]

also what's up with that weird half explosion i got when burning a reactor

seems funky and exciting

[lusty zealot]

when fire does the majority of damage to a part, it burns out instead of being destroyed

[next urchin]

This is very much a late-alpha / early beta preview. Things like that are already planned, but require more effort than has been invested into 'polish' at this point

[lusty zealot]

stops being functional, reactors create a blast of EMP

[delicate moss]

That's super awesome to know that it's in the works :) Appreciate it

[worn hound]

neat

can it only repaired to functional via the normal repair process

[pale python]

it kinda seems like it always causes to be broken by heat whenever that happens

by my testing

[worn hound]

kinda like a half damaged Space Engineers block that needs to be repaired above a threshold to be functional

[pale python]

i think so

[next urchin]

The pass through is in particular the fact its Bi-directional port-port routes, yeah

[next urchin]

Yep!

[pale python]

i'm just struggling to make it use its own heatstorage

[next urchin]

Actually exactly like that. Good comparison

[pale python]

but i think i got it

[worn hound]

ok so it practically kills the component but it's still there if you can put the fire out

[worn hound]

i have played too much space engineers

[kind estuary]

#1370966033028087919 message

There started a feedback thread for overclock suggestions to help filter info

[next urchin]

Crew can still walk through (albeit slowly), cheaper repair costs, usually less catastrophic destruction (eg. Reactors)

[pale python]

looking at the resonance beam i think i just have to loop all the ports?

and then the remaining point all to one port

[tranquil cape]

we can make a working toaster with this!

[pale python]

with 24 ports i'm going to explode

[next urchin]

As long as they're all connected, it'll work. Looping ports or connecting all ports to a single port. Connecting all ports to a component also works, as long as it's bidirectional

[next urchin]

I haven't had time to implement multi-ports just yet, so yeah, it's a pain in the ass

Less of a pain than proxies tho!

[pale python]

i'll point them all to a single port because i'm no
THANK YOU NOTEPAD++ MULTI LINE CONTROLS

this is great

[pale python]

i'm pretty sure its possible to use these network ports to cross a gap and whatnot
i imagine different icons or just colors for the port icon arent a thing yet but hope that may be a thing

also i was right about radiators but for completly different reasons!!!

my fusion reactor has been overhauled sucessfully (i need to halve production rates later)

[worn hound]

w fast mod developer

[flat skiff]

guys dont meltdown this guy's reactor 😰

[kind estuary]

Please try to keep all overclock suggestion ideas in #1370966033028087919 message rather than posting them in this thread. Discussions about ideas can be had here, but having the list of ideas in one place will make it WAY easier to see the good ideas when looking for them.
ideas can include for weapons with existing overclocks if the idea is good enough to be worth Celeste's pain of remaking them.

@regal wharf Please pin this message if you think it would be a good idea

[delicate moss]

yo this is awesome, I remember seeing that thing use radiators and have a heat system when checking the mod out

[kind estuary]

❤️

[delicate moss]

I honestly can't wait to see modded parts interact with the heat system

[pale python]

up next

my cursed armor gets curse status effect instead of boring fire

that's 3 commits and a somewhat functional mod now

[next urchin]

Yeah, I need to expand the handling for port/network visualisation. Current implementation is just a stopgap for that

[delicate moss]

Anyway, I'm omw to play a new career save as an alien force with fucked up alien heat technology that sweeps the sector before any heated builtins are added 👽

[modern socket]

Is this a modified version of someone else's ship that you upgraded with the new thermal weapon? Mind sending me it, please?

[kind estuary]

@brisk widget #1370966033028087919 message try to keep questions like that in this thread 🙂
discussions about any idea are easier to have here as well. summaries of discussions or easy startpoints can be linked in that thread if something needs to be fleshed out.

As for which things have overclock. recommend trying out the preview before making a suggestion. your idea might already be implemented if you dont know what already exists 😄

[brisk widget]

Oki

I was asking because I can't download the preview until like june because my college wifi blocks steam

[kind estuary]

It took the Balance council weeks-months to understand some of the existing overclocks and how to use them. the final product will be in the game for a long time, the later a suggestion for a weapon that already has an OC, the less likely it would change.

[worn hound]

vpn?

[brisk widget]

Tried didn't work

[worn hound]

either a vpn or a mobile hotspot could help

aw

mobile hotspot has never failed me

[brisk widget]

Hotspot works but I don't really want to use that

[kind estuary]

maybe find a cafe somewhere to get the preview client. i dont have any idea how you can even play if steam is blocked....

[worn hound]

steam as just a launcher will work practically offline

[brisk widget]

It only blocks steam updates and multiplayer

Either way I just wanted to know what OCs exists idrc about suggesting stuff

[kind estuary]

so you should be able to get it if you connect at an airport or some other public network that doesnt block steam... Recommend due diligence in making sure those connections are safe.

[lusty zealot]

ask @kind estuary for it, it's their ship (and also from one of the very early balance council tests for this update, so will not function like that now)

[worn hound]

@brisk widget this is what exists

[brisk widget]

Thanke

[weary sparrow]

Hey, just asking because I turned off my pc, can you choose which component you will cool with the heat exchanger?

[worn hound]

no it's only AoE afaik

[weary sparrow]

Hmm

[lusty zealot]

yeah it sucks in all heat in its aoe

[weary sparrow]

Hmm, so it will not work on my actual build :/

[kind estuary]

That was a frankenstein monster i made out of my Rekyu Wraith and stuffing as many pumps and dilators as was needed to prove a point. that ship was made on a previous version of the update and you definitely wont see the same results. The save file seems to have been corrupted sometime in the past month of changes so i might have lost that ship too ;_;
The ship itself should be easy to recreate something similar by stuffing as many pumps dilators and TRBs as you can fit together. you WILL NOT see even remotely close to the same level of destruction as we added diminishing return scaling to prevent exactly ships like that from feeling mandatory due to how overpowered they were

[kind estuary]

#1370799036591898837 message

i didnt actually check that list. but somebody put a list together

[worn hound]

i already referred them to that list i made lol

[brisk widget]

Overclocked deck cannon looks really funny I hope that carries over to modded ones

[worn hound]

beware

[brisk widget]

Go my indescribably fast projectiles

[worn hound]

overclocked deck cannons crash your game easily

[brisk widget]

Damn!

So strong it transcends the game and hits your pc

[worn hound]

yep

[kind estuary]

thank you! i didnt see you had

the list is missing a few details for some parts, but most basic info is there

[worn hound]

i threw it together in like a minute lol

[kind estuary]

very happy you did that. that list can still direct people asking somehwere. then maybe they will look ingame

[worn hound]

had to get back to messing with the update asap

[kind estuary]

but for those that dont have access, that list helps build hype

update is HOT

[worn hound]

:)

[frigid flax]

the heat effects are awesome

especially the heat exchanger

weve entered a whole new era of cosmoteer with the paint and meltdown updates

[kind estuary]

@floral saffron #1370966033028087919 message Highly recommend you try messing with the existing OC ion. Balance council finds it VERY strong. also pretty.

Dont worry about the prisms not glowing or exploding right now. that will be changed with the other polishing

[wicked lotus]

Has anyone tried making an "impenetrable wall" ship yet with overclocked shields and radiators? Tested it against previous build ships and then overclocked ships?

[worn hound]

also keep in mind overclocked capacitors

[modern socket]

So what your saying is that should that same heat power system be recreated as of now, it would be greatly nerfed compared to what it originally was as you added that diminishing return scaling to make it more balanced.

[wicked lotus]

that too

[kind estuary]

@median crow #1370966033028087919 message
hey @dark lily You might be interested in pushing for that~

I have no idea if that would be a good idea to use. but it IS a good suggestion ❤️

[worn hound]

they give size 3 batteries with no charge time

put those next to your shields to make your crew very happy

and back them up with normal reactors and i'd assume the large capacity of the capacitors makes it a lot easier for reactors to charge the capacitors than to charge shields

[frigid flax]

Overclocked reactors also give size 4 batteries

The large one

[worn hound]

yep

[frigid flax]

The small reactor oc is the same as the medium non oc

[brisk widget]

Funny how earlier this year ultrakill added a (admittedly nowhere near as gamechanging) heat mechanic and now cosmoteer has one as well

[wicked lotus]

Gotta leverage where the heat is being generated though. If everything is overclocked, it can't possibly be efficient and sustainable.

[worn hound]

i still love the idea of an OC shield with radiators right next to it facing directly forward

so that if someone gets too close you turn their damage against them since radiators deal damage

[wicked lotus]

Yeah but the damage seems minimal. Not realistic for a build.

[brisk widget]

Wait they deal damage?

Insane

Thrusters dealing damage when

[frigid flax]

And can easily be cooled by one radiator

Small ships rejoice

[worn hound]

i wouldn't call the damage minimal, just short range and hard to scale

[kind estuary]

yes. making that ship now would show a much nerfed version of what used to be a sustainable melt 50tile deep wall of death that has no counter of any kind. That thing was WAY too strong.
Melting 11 tiles deep at a time is still crazy strong and you can absolutely make that though. Quiximo built a functional 90ish amplifier pump ship with 4 TRB that is pure alpha and zero resupply planning in the 1.5m range. that monster is barely held in check by its lack of sustain, and still sometimes wins duels.

I dont think ships like that will be shared for a few days until after public ships and build strategies come out. balance council doesnt want to have too large of an influence on what you all make with these fun tools

[grim gyro]

Oh yeah I heard something about thrust changes, can someone explain that for me?

[lusty zealot]

Soon™️

[brisk widget]

Hype

Who needs to add flamethrowers when you can turn thrusters into flamethrowers

[kind estuary]

Remember the half speed preview from last october/november?
The basics of that, but with multiple improvements and tuning integrated with the thermal system.

I honestly dont know all the direct changes that applies. but its safe to say most combat ships will be between 90-120m/s, all projectiles will travel faster than ships.
its honestly far easier to compare the new stuff with new stuff rather than comparing what ships used to be able to do with what they will be able to do because of how many changes this includes

[lusty zealot]

most things in the game are now at half speed. exceptions are most out-of-combat things, as well as projectile speed and ship top speed (which is reduced but by less than half)

[grim gyro]

idk how to feel about this

[lusty zealot]

i'm personally not a fan though most of the balance council do greatly like it

[kind estuary]

suddenly reverse direction MRT ramp causes hilarious death flare. also whatever this meme of being a shuriken would get new meaning

[grim gyro]

I don't like it either tbh

[lusty zealot]

it is something that you definitely need to play with to get a real feel

[kind estuary]

The best way to discribe this is. Try it and see for yourself if stuff feels good now.
not comparing now with before, because so much changed and there are not balance versions of old speed with overclocked thrusters

[modern socket]

Still this resonant weapon can still feel overpowered at times when powered up and used in numbers and it feels like I'm playing modded cosmoteer. I still find it satisfying though to watch ships get cooked alive by this weapon. It even greatly outranges deck cannons which is crazy.

[grim gyro]

So will 1x speed be like the old 1/2x?

[lusty zealot]

essentially yeah

[grim gyro]

What in particular has been slowed

[lusty zealot]

yes.

[grim gyro]

Uh oh

[kind estuary]

its more shifting thruster layouts to having an impact on mobility and acceleration now, than top speeds because there are massive diminishing scaling at higher speeds. effectively prevents cases where you can never catch something

[lusty zealot]

ship acceleration is the one you'll feel the most

[grim gyro]

Is it slower?

[lusty zealot]

power generation to power consumption (same with ammo) ratios remain the same

[lusty zealot]

yep

[kind estuary]

try messing with OC deck cannon. those have longer range than TRB.

[brisk widget]

Danm

[grim gyro]

NOOOO

[brisk widget]

No more instant movements 💔

[grim gyro]

I hate this 😭

[lusty zealot]

again do try it out thoroughly before making any major judgements

[kind estuary]

"yesnt" personally i dont think the new speeds of the game have direct equevilents anymore, but the new version felt far easier to play in career testruns

[tranquil cape]

pretty cool for crew efficient ships

[lusty zealot]

@eternal ibex you intending to do a repeat of your 1 crew career?

[grim gyro]

Is there a full changelog?

[kind estuary]

mess around with how speed works in this preview, adjust ships as you may need. Then say if there are specific things that can be improved so we can actually get them added. the most painful parts of the previous speed changes should not feel remotely as painful as before

[grim gyro]

I'll have to try it more later as I'm away from my PC for the day

[bitter steppe]

Awesome to see how many people are enjoying the update. Glad to see our months of hard work and testing on the Balance Council has finally come to fruition and we're able to share it with you all!

[kind estuary]

I am not sure an actual changelog will exist for the specifics of how the code changed on the backend side. Things like turning acceleration, momentum, maximums, thresholds of scaling limitations, effect of mass and more have all been tweeked in various ways to get where it currently is.

The speed changes are going to happen because they make the game feel MUCH better in career which has the largest group of (silent) players.

Balance council has done a lot to try and make the speed parts feel good to play with. but if we missed stuff, we want to know what could be done to make it improve from here

[kind estuary]

@delicate moss #1370966033028087919 message
I am not sure if reactors need to have larger explosions when overlocked. I originally thought they should, but the more i used them, i was less convinced.
its likely still on the table if OC reactors will get a bigger boom.

It may or may not be part of missing polish like the OCion shooting prisms not glowing(and i am not sure if they explode yet but that will be added if it hasnt).

[dark lily]

They should get a hot explosion instead

[kind estuary]

SCARY!!!!

but likely the best choice

[lusty zealot]

oh yeah i do agree with that. good idea

[delicate moss]

if I'm gonna be honest, the suggestion is fueled by a deep dark sick twisted wish for reactor suicide ships that are more viable

[kind estuary]

im going to be honest that im definitely going to try and stop THAT GIF from ever returning for everybody's sake lmao

[delicate moss]

if I ignore the effects of the he- hyperium I injected into my body though, the hot explosion is a much better idea

[kind estuary]

build grid murder memes should not exist lol

at least not in cost effective manners....

[delicate moss]

I dunno what you mean by "that gif" but I will choose to remain ignorant

really my only feedback so far is I wish the other thingamabobs that go through heat pipes were more visual, but the fact that's on the list of things™️ puts me at ease. I have no other feedback, it's one of the coolest things ever added to early access so far, probably the coolest tbh (but not in the thermal way)

[kind estuary]

"update preview is hot"

[brisk widget]

oc reactor explosion

[delicate moss]

I will probably have a larger barrage of suggestions when career 2.0 comes out in the far future lol. I'm a pretty firm believer that a game should be given lore life through small, continuous and meaningful things instead of text dumps (as a dev I am admittedly guilty of text dumps, I need to be better about that..)

that's a conversation for not this thread though

[kind estuary]

career 2.0 is definitely a different conversation. But its need has come up several times during our tests

[delicate moss]

how exactly? without breaking NDA or anything

[kind estuary]

how did it come up?

[delicate moss]

yeah, like what about this update made the council think "hey we need career two point zeer-oh"

[modern socket]

The overclocked deck cannon frequently crashes, unfortunately.

[dense kestrel]

dang i just came this stuff looks amazing

[kind estuary]

some potential builtin ships that made me feel fear... Those will likely need a difficulty slider or career 2.0 to help position them better than randomly existing.
my own career testrun aiming to try as many OC weapons as i could in different size ships had several points that i wished for different/more run goals to be working towards. I cant say anything of career 2.0 itself, all my focus has been on speed and thermal stuff and how combat itself works/feels. I mostly just thought i wanted some other goals to work toward in career beyond "build bigger ship and kill stuff with generic credit reward"

[kind estuary]

unfortunate... Celeste will likely get a fix for that soonish. in the meantime, i suggest testing other weapons then. Try the OC LC. the fires those things can cause may suprize you how many ships die to it

[grim gyro]

I just hope career and PvP have the same changes

I don't want to have to learn piloting twice

[kind estuary]

screw multiple versions of the same game. thats a bigger nightmare to balance than trying to balance it for both and finding a good enough middleground

you dont need to worry about that

[grim gyro]

Great

[kind estuary]

they will keep the same stats relative to each other

[grim gyro]

I'm talking about thrust and gamespeed changes

iirc I saw that idea being thrown around a bit

[delicate moss]

So in Avorion, another spaceship building game, there's a boss that is called the "Mobile Energy Lab" which shoots extremely powerful lightning weaponry. So strong in fact that, in order to have a good chance of beating it, you need to specially build your ship with a outer layer mixed of meteorite and armor to stop the electric weapons from dealing so much damage. Doing this will allow you to survive against the boss.

If there is anything I would love to see in Career 2.0, it would be more things like the Energy Lab bossfight where you need to build a specialized ship to handle something - such as an opponent that really excels at this one, exploitable thing. Or just another major challenge. The heat beam is already a great example of this, with the player being able to build thermal armor. Being able to fight and kill a boss that uses mostly resonance beams by making a ship that dissipates the heat would be the best thing ever.

[lusty zealot]

much as i would like pvp to not have the halfspeed changes, it would be an utterly horrible idea to have different stats between career and pvp in this game

[delicate moss]

There was one time in career where I encountered a pirate station that just shot an absolute SHIT ton of missiles. So the way I killed it was by building an intense energy shield + PD combo ship with no weapons to exhaust the station of its missiles. It was a little tedious but one of my favorite moments in career because it was memorable and challenged me to think outside the box.

[grim gyro]

Gah why do these changes have to be made :(

[kind estuary]

not sure who was throwing that idea around.

Balance council used to have to test a half speed preview AND a thermal overclock preview. we combined both to make everybody's lives easier and to prevent the need for making interim temporary balance that would be tossed out once bother were combined.
splitting pvp stats and career stats makes creative question which stats it would get. and if domination and elimination should have their own versions of stat balance.... Thats a recipe for a huge mess... its somehow easier to balance for all of them in a single set of stats, while altering how things work so it doesnt break anything in any of the modes too badly

[grim gyro]

So does it keep thrust speed the same but slow down weapons?

[lusty zealot]

thrust is halved, but drag is not

projectile speed is also not

[grim gyro]

oh damn

Yeah I really don't like this

I noticed my ships were a lot more sluggish

[kind estuary]

trust me. you DO NOT WANT the OC thrusters as they are just added to the old system with tiny adjustments. it wouldnt work well, but with the current speed system it is far less unbalanced

i could imagine ships easily reaching over 300m/s and able to make some ships NEVER have a chance at a shot. that problem doesnt exist with how this preview works

[eternal ibex]

battleships are awesome, build more battleships

[kind estuary]

hilariously my Rekyu Surtr would make an awesome boss ship... that said... it would still die to 2 railkites over enough time. even though it would very unlikely lose any 1v1

[grim gyro]

I feel like I need a full explanation on how the speed and thrust changes work

[kind estuary]

"play the game"

[grim gyro]

Can't rn

[lusty zealot]

the changes are too comprehensive for a complete explanation

[kind estuary]

then dont complain about stuff you cant see that is actually fine

complain when you see actual problems

please

[kind estuary]

im going to "borrow" this paint for learning reasons...

[grim gyro]

I've played with it a bit already but don't really understand how the changes actually work

[eternal ibex]

This is a huge update. You cannot form an informed opinion without a similarly huge amount of testing

[kind estuary]

then play with it more. it took balance council WEEKS to get a decent handle on what to do with these new toys. dont feel bad about not understanding them instantly. there are just that many changes

[kind estuary]

lmao this ship's name

[grim gyro]

What is it?

[eternal ibex]

it's my paintcard, want it?

[kind estuary]

i will be good with what i see from this ship. its the color combination and how you mix the dark and purple to create an effect i am interested in. if i ever finally paint a ship, this and some of saris's designs will have been involved in how i learn what i need to make fun paint

[tulip nebula]

I haven't tried the beta, is there any part that generates heat (excluding overclock/new weapon cannon)?

-# like.... only heat

[plucky fossil]

you can use power storage

[lusty zealot]

i've seen someone using overclocked sensors as a pretty good way to just make heat

there's no part with the specific purpose of 'makes heat'

[covert coyote]

there was a "Thermal Update Overview" video posted earlier with parts that are not(?) available for testing right now, were those removed

[vocal mesa]

So this heat system is meant to work with all the weapon systems in some way? I am just trying out for the first time and I am confused

Is overclock like a new sort of tech level in a way?!

[plucky fossil]

no

you can sidegrade (actually upgrade in most cases despite not being intention) most parts at the cost of it generating heat

[vocal mesa]

Interesting

More fun ways to blow up my own ship

[kind estuary]

Expect to need to tinker with them a bit and have fun doing it. Overclocked things are strong, but different enough to each need a bit to understand them all. IE expect it to take weeks to design a well made thermal ship

[kind estuary]

This is the truest statement of the update. you WILL self immolate a lot 😄

[vocal mesa]

I'll probably never fully understand this update (I mostly just paint ships)

But, I could make a time bomb and place it next to a AI station.

[tranquil cape]

pd and small thrusters work too

[tranquil cape]

this update is making the game feel much more complete than it had been before

making overclocking weapons give them unique abilities was the best idea ever

[delicate moss]

I must say that seeing crew walk at 1x speed is really weird. It's like they're all high or something

I get why but it looks.. off..

[tranquil cape]

im only annoyed it takes so long for them to start up a ship

[near flax]

if possible I think the pipe crossway or whatever it's called shouldnt require doors and connect to corridors/walkways mostly for aesthetic reasons

if the doors are there for balance reasons then there should probably be a cost increase if the door requirement is removed

[lusty zealot]

agreed, though i think it's more there from an ease-of-coding reason

[dense kestrel]

btw isnt the laser kinda unbalanced with just this setup you can melt armor

and its def not optimazed lmao its just what i made in like 5 minutes

[delicate moss]

Interesting, if you feed a beam with only amplification it's like a laggy ion beam with a bigger damage radius

[lusty zealot]

it is very good vs armour as a weapon

[delicate moss]

I went and made these amplifier charger modules for Science™️

[lusty zealot]

though, i would urge you to compare to similar cost, crew, and space investments for other weapons

[dense kestrel]

true

[lusty zealot]

it also takes A While™️ to get through shields

[dense kestrel]

ngl its my favorite wepon lol

[lusty zealot]

you could probably cut quite a lot of those pipes

[dense kestrel]

oh btw does the crew move slower or is it just me

[lusty zealot]

they do

1x speed in the preview is pretty much the same as 1/2x speed in stable

[stuck roost]

This reminds me of factorio

[delicate moss]

the Factorio player in me is shining

[stuck roost]

The pipes are, quite frankly, an unexpected addition to this game

Yeah he is

[delicate moss]

A huge issue I noticed is that crew will often deliver batteries to injector thingamabobs when they don't actually need 3 energy yet which wastes energy

the best remedy to it seems to just be to add capacitors to force 1 battery in at a time

[stuck roost]

The factorio player inside sup3r:

[stuck roost]

Oh you noticed that! That's cool! It's a super niche and advanced mechanic I'm glad you noticed it so quickly while messing with logistics
I had to have someone taught me that lmao

[delicate moss]

extremely true especially since

[tame comet]

whyd the deck cannon get its firerate halved???

[delicate moss]

Yeah, usually I don't notice it because things like engine rooms and ion blasters just have so much power capacity its hard to notice

[lusty zealot]

many things got halved

[lusty zealot]

.

[delicate moss]

yeah to my knowledge almost everything got halved

[tame comet]

oh ew

hope theres a mod to revert that

[lusty zealot]

ship top speed did not get halved (though it did get reduced especially at higher speeds due to a sharper drag curve)

most out-of-combat things (mining laser damage vs junk and asteroid, non-ammo factory speed, crew fly speed, etc) also did not get halved and remain the same

projectile speed as well is (in most cases) the same

[delicate moss]

Wait, so do the stats on this thing apply for both ports connected or 1 port connected

my guess is it's 1 port connected but I'm not completely sure

[lusty zealot]

i... don't actually know

i think it's per 1 port based on the NOTE:

[delicate moss]

oh.. oh god

welp time to energhee test

if it overloads the reactor, that'll be the answer :P

[stuck roost]

You know how much it's genius to squeeze such a controversial change inside such a big update so that all the players that might whine on it will already be overwhelmed

[delicate moss]

the main reason I think it's per 1 port is because according to math™ 1 reactor can power a hair under 52 of these rooms which sounds absurd

[dense kestrel]

managed to get this setup

[delicate moss]

I actually think I'll prefer dilation in the career. I really like the anti-crew use of the thermal beams even if it takes a moment

it's like the radiation weapons in FTL except now Cosmoteer has it too

[stuck roost]

Are you saying that MRT ships are now slower?

[stuck roost]

I wonder if a new 'win' condition was added; that you kill all crew.

[frigid flax]

For the game speed change if you don't want it just set the speed to 2x right

For the closest effect

[lusty zealot]

if they're above like 100m/s yeah

[lusty zealot]

yeah, though it will feel quite different to fly

[frigid flax]

Ok

[tame comet]

oh my god these speed changes feel absolutely terrible

[lusty zealot]

i do recommend playing with it for a while and getting a feel for it before making any final judgement

[delicate moss]

it was!

jump to here #1370799036591898837 message

[frigid flax]

I don't really care about it too much

[delicate moss]

I made a ship I call the Model-TRB and fried a ship's crew to death

[frigid flax]

It's fine in my book

[delicate moss]

Also, I'm sure this isn't completely optimal but the dilation module is considerably larger than the amplification module. At least with this layout, it is thinner tbh

@lusty zealot You were right that the stats were per port and not per room

[lusty zealot]

you could save pipes on the radiator section btw

but nice work

[delicate moss]

is true, but I'm currently doing some Science™

Science™ test 1: one beam fed by the same infra VS three beams fed by the same infra.

It seems pretty clear that, similar to ions, it's better to have multiple beams instead of one/

[stuck roost]

@kind estuary feedback regarding the pipes or ideas to improve their "intuitiveness" goes to the megathread you made in #1019739575683399840 or it shall wait this chat becomes silent enough for Walt to pass by and read our feedback?

Or perhaps feedback goes to the balance concil itself in which case I am still asking which is the right place

[next urchin]

Someone after my own heart

Fires are so fun

[lusty zealot]

up to a point, yes. there is, iirc, some degree of falloff and beyond a certain point you stop getting more cost-effectiveness out of it

also nice music

[lusty zealot]

war crimes (:

[lusty zealot]

the megathread's just for suggesting overclocks

other things can be a separate #1019739575683399840 post or you can find one that more closely fits the suggestion's topic

[kind estuary]

I only made the megathread for overclock suggestions so they wouldnt clog messages here or the feedback thread. there are a TON of potential overclock ideas.

what Theta said

this thread is a general thread that you can put feedback into, but has a very realistic chance of being missed as feedback. it wont get missed if its in https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1019739575683399840

[delicate moss]

good to note, I should probably do more science™ (but it's a lil late)

I'm about to do ome more I've been setting up though

[grizzled sentinel]

is overlocked jumpdrive a good idea?

[lusty zealot]

depends what the idea is

[dense kestrel]

heres a ship i managed to make

[delicate moss]

Alright, second round
Science™ test 2: A beam fed by: 2 LRs ampli VS 1 LR ampli & 1 LR dilation VS 2 LRs dilation

It honestly seems that it depends on your priorities - do you want to cut through the enemy, or cook them? Regardless, ignoring amplifiers is probably a bad idea

[stuck roost]

That was my initial thought, thank you

[lusty zealot]

try them vs shields too maybe?

[delicate moss]

Good idea, 1 sec

[kind estuary]

I expected to see a weapon test. suddenly hilariously addictive music

[delicate moss]

Spring anthem by ko0x :P

[kind estuary]

2 LR dilator performed better than i expected

That test looks like it would get complicated if you had another weapon you were shooting the same place with to take advantage of the thermal debuff to damage resist

[delicate moss]

lining the ships up is a little annoying lol

[kind estuary]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3263973967

That might help a little with lining targets up

[delicate moss]

I should use this, but there's something I like about using actual ships

especially since we're dealing with a weapont that's more than "number amount of damage applied"

Three beams test but with shields @lusty zealot

It is pretty clear that not only do thermal beams take a while to get through shields, but also that dilating them is far less effective against shields than amplification

the 2 dilated one straight up ||disqualified 💀 ||

[lusty zealot]

did it not even overheat the shields?

[delicate moss]

It's pretty damn clear that amplification is about cutting through, and dilation is about burning a large area

[delicate moss]

well, it heated them...

[lusty zealot]

it's also probably a good call to try them with other weapons, as wider area of dilation may be better for buffing

we'll see

[delicate moss]

this is being fired into an entire ion core though so results are prolly less awful against a bunch of small shield like the apple thesis's sides instead of maw

[lusty zealot]

also i do love the different graphics for the different pumps

[delicate moss]

yeah same, I really appreciate it, helps distinguish 'em

[lusty zealot]

reminds me a lot of mach diamonds, especially the 1 of each

[delicate moss]

I had no idea an engine could produce something like that but good lord does it look cool

[lusty zealot]

yeah

a lot of afterburning jet engines do, and rocket engines operating in higher atmospheric pressure than intended also

[kind estuary]

By itself i fully agree. it did however also apply TRB shield debuff to all the shields. so other weapons would obliterate those same shields easier

[delicate moss]

I just realized that the reasoning behind this is because the wider beam(s) had to try burning more shields at once while the focused beam could take down one shield at a time

[delicate moss]

yeah that is true, it really feels like this weapon is the kind to be mixed with another instead of just used by itself which I really love

adding that to the fucking pile of things I love about this update

[kind estuary]

decent chance the 1TRB 2 LR of dilators are just not able to apply enough heat because passive thermal dissipation of all parts

[delicate moss]

yeah I think that's the case

One thing I am happy to learn is that multiple heat beams is better than one, bc it means that cool ass ships with multiple heat beams are coming

[kind estuary]

more testing needed. diminishing returns exist for TRBs connected to the same pumps

otherwise the "correct" answer would be to just run as many as you have roof space for

[grizzled sentinel]

idk my ideas for overlocked hyper drives:1) small hyper drives: allow it to be pre-charged + debuff is it less effective, covers less range + 1 second start up 2)medium: pre charge, less effective allows to jump in any location near the ship + 2 second. 3)Large: pre charge, less effective + 3 second when jumping release powerful arcs that damage enemies.

[dense kestrel]

can stand a lot but if you get hitted by a nuke GG

[kind estuary]

see pins and try to keep direct overclock ideas in that thread so they dont get lost here

#1370799036591898837 message

😄

[kind estuary]

eh?

oh

discussion specifically in this thread. ideas in the feedback thread

not yet sure if hyperdrives will get OC, though interesting idea to have a warp deal damage.

sorry for any confusion with that

[delicate moss]

good to know that the same rules apply to roof mounted things with the thermal beam

[kind estuary]

yup. TRB is roof mounted. though it is VERY narrow

[grizzled sentinel]

also effects stack so you can jump at small distances and damage at the same

can make very interesting ship designs

[kind estuary]

i definitely have a few worries of teleport area damage being crazy overpowered if it can happen instantly. might be hard to balance

[grizzled sentinel]

and to effect to work you need to overdrive all your hyper drive with the same type or else you will have a large debuff

[grizzled sentinel]

it like it spawning instant red clouds from place you have been jumping

[kind estuary]

okay, the idea of leaving a damage zone where you were is far more interesting than what i was imagining

dont see how that can make or even change ship designs, but a PEACE OUT BOOM smoke pain cloud is definitely an idea

[grizzled sentinel]

also you can reverse it so medium leaves damage when jump away and large leaving damage when jump in

and you can also balance it with energy blocks in radius lose energy when you drive

[dense kestrel]

here bigger version

[ocean quail]

You forgot to not stop recording the aftermath

[delicate moss]

Wilhelm_Scream.mp4

[kind estuary]

Those firefighters are going to try so hard, and get so far... and in the end their extinguishers and fire damage immunity will end like it didnt even matter

[median crow]

converted a monolith station into a single giant TRB

[delicate moss]

yeah one really prominent characteristic I've found from this weapon is that once fires start spreading inside the ship it is like genuinely over for the crew if the ship has no heat dissipation

it's like in Factorio where there's a breach and suddenly 100, no, 200, no, 400, no, 800 things need repairs all within like 20 seconds

[stuck roost]

How much is it's range again?

[stuck roost]

This is an amazing defense weapon

[median crow]

315 meters

[tranquil cape]

anyways i just posted a bunch of ideas here

[tranquil cape]

the defense platform

[median crow]

it wins basically every fight even without any defenses, but it's no good as a station anymore, the beam takes the whole interior

[tranquil cape]

@delicate moss
when i was making the idea i was thinking of "what if you could dump a ton of heat into explosive charge for a really big boom"
instead of "what if i could use it as a temporary way to store heat?"

kinda interesting you thought of it the other way
i think it could be cool, as long as its also mentioned that heat cannot be taken back out so as soon as it gets heat intake it will eventually explode (unless repaired)

[delicate moss]

didn't dawn on me until now how great the reso beam would be for pirate/miltary stations

base sieges already take a while so it'd provide enough time for the frying to do its work

[delicate moss]

ohh ok, I see

it still doesn't seem.. too practical to me. but it's a neat idea

you'd need to time the heating right to make a good weapon

[tranquil cape]

yeah, just to make things more interesting
even then its current form isn't too practical either lol

[tranquil cape]

thx for cleaing out your messages there btw
not that many people actually do that when they realize they are in the wrong place

[bitter steppe]

Imagine if instead of a Wilhelm scream once in a while was a goat scream 🐐

[dense kestrel]

starter ship 💀

[delicate moss]

lol

this one's mine, the Model-TRB

admittedly, medium thrusters for kiting are probably a lot safer. It's mostly inspired from the starter deck cannon design I did

[dense kestrel]

somehow its actualy good

[delicate moss]

this is like my 15th time saying it but it's like the radiation weapons from FTL. It's a better anti-crew weapon than an anti-ship weapon

you can fry the entire crew of a ship, which puts the flames out and leaves the whole enchilada intact

[dense kestrel]

i think i have my favorite starter ship💀

[grizzled sentinel]

why it it catches on fire

[stuck roost]

#1370966033028087919 message
I love the idea of bouncing armour! xD

[stuck roost]

Does this melt down smaller ships?

Sounds like a warcrime to me.

[pale python]

Not connected and heat exchangers not pulling fast enough

[lusty zealot]

more like not pulling far enough

their heat adsorption is tile-based not part-based

[delicate moss]

it tends to kill the crew first if the armor layer is thin enough

[grizzled sentinel]

3 exchngers

[delicate moss]

it is definitely a war crime. Space OSHA will genuinely be livid when this tech is leaked in a full release

most weapons just destroy parts, they don't trap the crew in actual fucking burning hellfire

..it's nice to recover an intact hull though

[grizzled sentinel]

it hot enough to melt armor, crew is cooked congratulations

[stuck roost]

exactly

[delicate moss]

this is why it's good to go for dilation instead of amplification

it focuses on cooking a larger area instead of just more heat

[stuck roost]

Why that's so by the way? I think the system would greatly benefit from being per tile

[delicate moss]

I'm repeating myself so hard but it's nuts we have an actual anti-crew weapon now, that's always felt like missed potential

Anyway I have been here literally all day. I need to sleep lol

[stuck roost]

Good night sweetheart

[cunning swift]

imo the pipe roof textures could be a bit subtler

[grim gyro]

My thrust setup used to go 270, now it barely reaches 150

[stuck roost]

Oh wow that's some big number changes!
I appreciate that, though

Have you tried it on overclocking tho?

[grim gyro]

I encounter a bug when I do that

The speed doesn't display correctly

Flashes between 0 and idk what

I encountered the same one a long time ago with ridiculously fast modded ships

[pale python]

Are you sure you arent on the invisivle edge of map

[grim gyro]

Yep

[stuck roost]

Compare it to the speed of another ship with a working display @grim gyro

[kind estuary]

@wintry kite #1370966033028087919 message
love the support, but trying to keep that thread exclusive to overclock suggestions to make them easier to see.
discussion of such ideas are better over here.

i have stayed up way too late having fun watching everybody start learning the thermal system so im going to pass out now. Hope you enjoy the preview, its hot.

[wintry kite]

ok, thanks for your work!

[kind estuary]

even if we dont get an anti hitscan OC version of the flak, i am going to be pursuing more defense options as there are now a lot of hitscan weapons that dont really have any way to counter them

no idea if anything will come from that, but it will be somewhere in dev minds

enjoy the preview, much tinkering and creative fun to be had for weeks/months

[wintry kite]

I actually posted a bit of an offensive instead of defensive suggestion for flak

[pale python]

Half or 0.75x damage OCDC probably would be good idk

[tulip nebula]

Is thrusters have oc?

[dark lily]

Yes

[grim gyro]

I really, really don't like these thrust changes

The increased drag curve is fine, its the half thrust

[gloomy raft]

Question all.

so if the part has green arrows i can pipe the heat directly and if it doesnt i need the heat exchanger? thats correct right?

im just trying to figure out what im doing with these bits

[tame comet]

the overclocking stuff is cool but the speed and weapon shit is ass 😭

i know why they did them but lord i hate it

[pale python]

yeah

[gloomy raft]

thanks. also are there any parts that ever need more than one pipe for maximum heat transfer?

[dark lily]

Nope!

[gloomy raft]

oh i see

[dark lily]

Pipes have infinite and instantaneous throughput

[gloomy raft]

so there is no reason for extra pipes except redundancy

[dark lily]

Yeah

[gloomy raft]

niiice

[grim gyro]

The half thrust is genuinely game ruining for me. Piloting becomes a painfully slow bore

[pale python]

try playing at 2x speed

[dark lily]

At 1x

1x is the new norm

[pale python]

ah yeah

for pvp

[dark lily]

The numbers have been redesigned that you should be piloting at 1x now

[grim gyro]

wha

[pale python]

previous 1/2 speed is roughly the current 1x speed

[grim gyro]

oh ok thats a lot better

what stayed 1/2 speed?

[tame comet]

im in general not a fan of everything being super slow because it feels like a slog on the most basic speed

[pale python]

animations probably

[gloomy raft]

if i run pipes to an engine room do the attached engines get cooled also?

[tranquil cape]

if the engine room is coverclocked then i think so

[gloomy raft]

ok good

that is very necessary

[pale python]

all thrusters are overclocked too

[dark lily]

Play at 1x, not 1/2x, it should help a lot

[tame comet]

i do, everything is so slow

it feels terrible

[gloomy raft]

yeh thats why i got scared lol

[tame comet]

im in creative, for reference, not pvp

[pale python]

then 2x should be roughly previous 1x

[tame comet]

it dont feel the same at all, but yea it is

i know why the change was done, but i absolutely despise it personally

[tranquil wedge]

Only dilation pumps need both outputs covered for full efficiency. (See tooltip)

[gloomy raft]

thanks

[past agate]

How exactly does a DPS TRT work? Do I just stack on Amplification Pumps and add some Heat exchangers connected to Radiators?

[pale cargo]

imagine if overclock increased railgun firerate :trol:

[dark lily]

Heat exchangers don't effect their damage output in any way. Amplification Pumps make them stronger, generate more heat, and dilation increase the area. The ratio of which one is optimal isn't clear

[past agate]

I meant heatexchangers so I dont need pipes directly connected to the turret to disperse heat in the ship

Meaning more slots for pumps (if that makes sense)

[bitter steppe]

if the TRB isn't connected to the thermal system it won't be buffed by any of them

[dark lily]

Ah! So, you can actually connect pumps to pipes, and then the pipes to the TRBs, and the pumps despite not being directly connected will still buff the TRBs

[past agate]

I feel like I didnt properly convey my thoughts, Ill try again:

So what I want to do: Use all the slots on the TRT to directly put TAPs on them and then use Heat Exchangers to siphon the generated heat from the Turret to direct it to radiators

[bitter steppe]

Ahh in that case you may be misunderstanding the pumps. They don't need to be connected to the TRB so long as they're connected to the same thermal system

[past agate]

So I can add infinite amounts of pumps to TRBs?

[bitter steppe]

Up to a point, eventually the power draw will scale up too high to sustain

[ruby niche]

did you guys know you can run 3 deck cannons with overclocks using just one radiator and thermal battery and with only 1/3 the crew :)))))

[grim gyro]

how many hours does it take between shots?

[ruby niche]

oh, its running on alternating fire

yo guys

yo guys

i think overclocked deck cannons might be slightly op

my reason?

you dont need to worry about fire rate if you oneshot your target

this just went through

10 layers of double armour, 4 small shields, 1 cockpit and 3 crew quarters and 1 deck cannon

[pale python]

oops i made cellular automata

[ruby niche]

and oneshot my thing

[ruby niche]

^^^ using 6 overclocked deck cannons

[brisk widget]

God it's so fucking funny

Need something like that in mods 🙏

[wintry kite]

well, now DC can become a very dangereous weapon, tho still dodgable xD

[gloomy raft]

in simple terms what do the thermal amp pump and the thermal dilation pump do?

[wintry kite]

actually, if you concetrate a few heat beams in 1 place, shouldnt somthing similar be possible?

[wintry kite]

I just want to remind you, that railguns got the same buff

and now you can snipe from giant distances

[ruby niche]

i doubt ships with a piece of armour can dodge the 300 meters range doubled accuracy and TRIPLED projective speed with almost half thrusters

[wintry kite]

Wait, the projectile speed is higher?! dear god

I didnt see that

[ruby niche]

100 meters > 300 meters per second

[wintry kite]

plus the range of ions now...

[ruby niche]

effectively 6x because of the thrust nerfs

and once again, this set up iS CHEAPER because you only need 1/3 the crew to run it

i can run deck cannons with 6 crew hello ????

(6 crew operation included)

[hazy umbra]

oooh I love this heat stuff

[ruby niche]

not to mention the quadroupled ammo efficiency

[wicked lotus]

Overclocked DCs seem to require overclocked defenses to handle, which seems fair enough in theory. They will of course shred standard defenses they were made to shred, without modernized defenses.

I still hope one day to see armor pieces that hook together and consume large quantities of energy to form a reactive armor wall. Thinner walls of armor but energy intensive. The new batteries could even hook into such a system and drain directly into the wall potentially. Shields would be more efficient in terms of energy consumption in this idea. Just a thought considering this new preview has similar veins in mechanics.

[gloomy raft]

anyone?

[hazy umbra]

boosters for the heat beam

[wicked lotus]

Increase penetration power/heat ramp, and increase AoE respectively, as I understand it.

[ruby niche]

im sorry but "its overclocked so you need overclocked defences to handle it" doesnt seem like a good balancing strategy. then whats the point of running NON overclocked things if theyre just easily made worthless ????

essentially, its saying "you have to use this or ELSE"

it also makes armour effectively worthless because theres no overclocked armour LOL

[wintry kite]

well, 6 crew for DC, 2 crew for reactor, command room and minimal thrusters...

and we get an overkill on a less than 100K ship

[ruby niche]

aspecially in non-meta play, this seems stupidly overpowered. LEFT ONESHOTS right whilst having DOUBLED speed and MORE reactor for roughly THE SAME COST (this is meant to be a TANKY ship)

[wicked lotus]

I mean, it IS a new, powerful mechanic. I don't imagine non-OC builds will have much chance in the long run. OC DCs are the most up front insanely damaging things in the game I imagine, so having the equivalent defenses seems like a given. The balance gang will work things out if its unbalanced.

[open karma]

Made a proof of concept checking if an overclocked ion + heat canister combo would be a good combo. Turned out to be good except when facing railgun kiters or ships with EMPs.

[wintry kite]

like, ok, railguns are fine in this case, they produce so much heat that even 1 long railgun is a problem to maintain, so infinite penetration is fine, but DC?

thats overkill

[ruby niche]

it can oneshot the main weapons of a ship 4 times its own cost

[pale python]

yeah i tthink overclocked DC is too strong

[wintry kite]

yeah, DC is already one of the top-tier weaponary used on ALL kinds of ships

[ruby niche]

the Voluntas, a ship BUILT to oneshot, CANOT one shot it, while mine can 2 shot it (again, 4X cost)

[wintry kite]

and now its just an insta-kill

[weary sparrow]

no one expects the OCDC Jumpscare

[wintry kite]

hmmm OC boosters+OC DC + Heat missiles + OC reactor

[weary sparrow]

atm it look like that small gun from M.I.N

[ruby niche]

again, with a single radiator, i not only get to overclock my 3 deck cannons, i also get to DOUBLE my speed AND overclockc my reactor

[wintry kite]

:D

[weary sparrow]

but withouth drawbacks

[ruby niche]

so, overclocking, pros and cons:

PROS
-you get to oneshot everything
-NO increased cost (removing crew more then makes up for it)
-increased speed
-increased reactor strength
-increased ammo efficiency
-WAY easier to build then crew micro
-increased range

CONS
-uuuh aaah, you get 1 block of weakspot you have to worry about :3

[pale python]

radiators are quite expensive
i tried retrofitting ships and they really got expensive with little overclocking

[tranquil wedge]

Yea they are broken and will very likely get nerfed

[ruby niche]

thats what im campaigning for, thanks :)

[modern socket]

I think a lot of the overclocked stuff in general needs to be nerfed because as of now, it's starting to feel like modded cosmoteer.

[ruby niche]

both of these have the same cost (809k vs 811k)

the left oneshots the right whilst suffering 0 damage

[pale python]

true...

[ruby niche]

one radiator can afford to overclock an engine room, 4 huge thrusters, a medium reactor and 3 deck cannons

by just having 2 thermal batteries (1 thermal battery if youre using alternating fire)

i LOVE the new mechanics but this is just too much xD

[pale python]

thruster overclock looks goofy
ammo factory increased ammo efficiency has no reason honestly, if anything it should be slightly inefficient

[ruby niche]

really, this makes building ships very fun, the overclocked buffs are really cool and creative, its just way, way, waaaaay too op. i think it would be best if everything stayed the same but the stats are nerfed (things generate more heat, radiators radiate less heat and cost more, etc)

[rigid temple]

100%, the new thermal system feels like a Cosmoteer mod. Something about this update just feels completely different from the vanilla game.

I think it’s because the fundamentals of ship building have drastically changed. Especially as pointed out (#1370799036591898837 message), overclocking is quite overpowered where it stands, since overclocked weapons can be permanently sustained with massive benefits and no real downsides or trade offs.

[pale python]

i find it looks very fine
it really feels like sci fi

although the extremly visible roof graphics look,,,, not particuarly too pleasant in my opinion

[ruby niche]

yeah the new additions look and feel great, killer update. my only problem is how overpowered it is

[ruby niche]

you should paint around those, paint should generally roughly match whats on the inside of the ship i think

[hazy umbra]

seems like a beta crash but my ship was modded

[weary sparrow]

fun fact: you can overheat PD behind 4 waves of armour with heat exchanger, so yeah you will be able to make a armour block of at least 4 armour hard, with pds to protect you against other shits while your deckgun mow down anything

so it is like glass cannon but you change the glass to fucking adamantine

lol

[pale python]

its basically not really paintable

[ruby niche]

change? xD just switch the thruster overclocking for PD overclocking without touching the deck cannons

[pale python]

i guess the connections make some sense but the actual pipes are hypervisible

[ruby niche]

i think it should be darker yeah, but the pipes being visible on the top of the paint is good imo

[weary sparrow]

can you share the png of the ship? let me test something lol

lets make the "unfair.png"

[ruby niche]

EG of how you would paint around it

[weary sparrow]

just for fun before the balance patch comes in and nerf it

[hazy umbra]

wait is heat just a resource and it tried to place it into my normal storage?

thus the crash

[tranquil cape]

NAH
i REALLY like the variants adding way more than just "X but better", it makes the game feel like it has a bunch of new weapon types and its so epic
removing that would suck so badly, there's no good reason for it and it would just make me turn to mods again looking for more content

[hazy umbra]

the new heat stuff gives me the same feeling as loading up a new mod

its so good

[weary sparrow]

god how I envy people who are good with painting

[ruby niche]

i second this, this effectively doubles the weapon count of the game

[ruby niche]

this is a grayscale faction lmao

im addicted to fades

the day walt added the resizable decals was the best day of my life

[modern socket]

I also think that overclocked weapons should only be to a degree stronger than normal mode weapons as opposed to being much much stronger, it would make them way less OP.

[jaunty ridge]

Are the new parts required with ship building?

[hazy umbra]

not required but they are recommended for a boost

lets you hit far above your weight class

[ruby niche]

thats assuming they get nerfed

[tranquil cape]

i hope its nerfed only in damage
the projectile speed and range both make it nicely useable for me

[weary sparrow]

or something akin to the overclocked M.R.T

[hazy umbra]

now if there were multipule levels of overcharge tha would be good

[weary sparrow]

that thing are heat hungry

[ruby niche]

i second this but i think it should generate way more heat

[pale python]

yeah

[eager gyro]

oh that was the game crashing

[bitter steppe]

This was really important to the Devs while designing all of the overclocks that it added more variety than "X but better". Some OCs aren't as 'different', but we did our best on the Balance Council to make sure everything is fun to use at least

[tranquil cape]

its AMAZING

[hazy umbra]

be fun if we had more radiator variants but that'll come with time I hope

[wicked lotus]

Ye the mechanic of OC has essentially multiplied the amount of weapons as long as they balance out in some way fairly.

[ruby niche]

mechanically this update is FIRE, but the balancing is ON fire

[wicked lotus]

I imagine heat/widespread OC will become rather unbearable to manage on a large scale for ships as balance works things out. Especially when you factor in enemy ships pushing heat into your systems. You will NOT be able to maintain many of these setups while receiving heat. They work in a vacuum kind of thing.

[bitter steppe]

One of the best examples is Rails. OC Rails are REALLY strong, but they're not so good at fanning, so non-OC rails still have a use.

[tranquil cape]

what makes them bad at fanning?

[ruby niche]

for which im really happy

[hazy umbra]

Heat powered Steam Reactor would go hard

[weary sparrow]

do you have any cost restriction for this ship in particular?

just for me to do the changes while keeping it under budget

[ruby niche]

not really, i tried to get it to stay as close to the original version as possible

[flat skiff]

there is a delay before shooting

[ruby niche]

i have like 7 of these built in our role play world lol

[pale cargo]

when large scale faction rp 2

[bitter steppe]

They have a delay that is increased based on how long they are... but they have infinite penetration and only stop when they "run out of damage". So looooooong rails can be 👍

[hazy umbra]

I'm glad I never finished my bigger ships so now I can upgrade everything with OC

[tranquil cape]

neat

[ruby niche]

i just really think overclocking in general (deck cannon specifically) is very overpowered compared to traditional ships

[hazy umbra]

Imagine this but with OC https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401100429284343815/1182004204085202994/image.png?ex=682180f2&is=68202f72&hm=2064a28e329aa44e6ce6cdaaea03c78c80a65d332f0184b06952583580060c61&

Cut a Star in half

[ruby niche]

damn thats 30% longer then a huge ships build square

[pale python]

should i start to try making balance mods to try to help

[hazy umbra]

no

[pale python]

why

[hazy umbra]

more heat parts instead

[ruby niche]

let the balance people handle it, it would be faster to give concrete info on WHY a thing is OP rather then saying HOW it can be fixed

[dark lily]

Speaking from extensive personal experience trying, I can safely say that you will die trying significantly more often than successfully dodging

[hazy umbra]

well actually you could give every part with oc on a passive heat gen

[weary sparrow]

For you to play with, it is quite raw but there is a module for overclocked railguns. (if you is not using a rail kiter you can remove the shields)

[pale python]

probably

[wintry kite]

XD true

[bitter steppe]

can confirm, I watched it happen

[eager gyro]

normaly this goes 32 forwards and 60 backwards, but with overclocking it goes 73 forwards and 90 backwards

[dark lily]

You'll probably have better luck dodging rails, frankly, because at least those don't actively swivel

[hazy umbra]

alternativly you can let the BFG 5K get over clocked

[eager gyro]

it also seams to be a somewhat good testing bed for the thermal stuff due to its shape

[pale cargo]

when heat missile orbiter

[wintry kite]

watched it happen or did he dodged you? :)

[wintry kite]

railguns with OC are... bad at aiming, they have problems hitting anything that moves

accuracy quite literally dropped to negative digits

[wheat wigeon]

• totally like the idea of the meltdown update and its new weapon system
• im confused becasue 0. 29 is not out and now the thermal update test is already available - will it be in 0.29 or will 0.3 be the thermal update (?)

[hazy umbra]

I assume the OC removes the micro homing they have then?

[bitter steppe]

watched it happen when we were testing together

[wintry kite]

no, railguns heat up before shooting with OC, which takes like... half a second? changes with length

and since AI is not taking this heat up into calculations, railgun is always missing

[hazy umbra]

ahhh

[wintry kite]

unless you turn the ship perfectly at the timing

[pale cargo]

what if its a feature

[wintry kite]

a feature to always miss? for a weapon which main point is sniping?

[tulip nebula]

That's a good catch if you ask me...

[modern socket]

Hence why overclocked weapons need to be nerfed.

[ocean quail]

So rail kites will simply get even better?

[wicked lotus]

Impressive difference, but IIRC, this thread has mentioned several times Thrusters are going to start damaging/heating up things too eventually,, and be less forgiving with facing other parts of your ship. So this design may not work eventually.

[wheat wigeon]

is meltdown the weapon that is good against armor finally??

[ocean quail]

Also Im wondering, are enemy ships gonna be getting these overclocked parts?

[wicked lotus]

I imagine once balance is relatively finalized the crews who love working on that will have a massive task revamping old designs and making new ones.

[wintry kite]

well, you need to point it for quite a long time but yeah, and OC ion can bypass armor hitting reactor as example (funny how I posted an idea of tesla cannon with exactly the same capabilities, just as a cannon)

[ocean quail]

Gonna be one heck of a job to get this balanced

[wheat wigeon]

guess i have to try it myself to get the concept but i'm short on time this week ...

[wintry kite]

the new Deck weapon basically shoots a beam that heats up armor and deals damage to a zone, which spreads

making 5-6 blocks wide holes in armor

[bitter steppe]

Meltdown is the name of the update, the weapons are called Thermal Resonance Beam/TRB and Thermal Canister Missiles/TCMs

[ocean quail]

@bitter steppe You may think your emotes are slick, but when one ship has overclocks and the other doesn't, similar design and similar costs otherwise and the overclocked ship basically deletes the non-overclocked ship, I'd take this a bit more serious if I were you.

[worn hound]

size of the hole depends on how many of the dilation injector doohickies that you use

[wintry kite]

well, yeah, but 5-6 is the most mid amount

[worn hound]

sure

[bitter steppe]

As a member of the Balance Council, I do take it seriously

[ocean quail]

Just makes the balance council look like a joke to me

Like I said, I'd take this a bit more serious if I were you

I get this is justa preview and supposed to be a proof of concept and having a bit of fun is all good, but when it comes to balance there is still a lot of work to be done

If 2 ships of similar design and similar cost, one has and one hasn't but one ship clearly outclasses the other. Take this in for a sec.

[hazy umbra]

I like the idea of the heat system letting you hit harder than you should but I feel like it needs more punishing

not on the damage output end but on the heat rates

[hazy umbra]

the ideal thing would be that the oc ship is better but only for so long

then the heat system need to cool down or face the consequences

[pale cargo]

what if you made a heat bomb

would it be better than a reactor bomb

[ocean quail]

If it's outright better it means it becomes mandatory.
How to defend against oc dc? Maybe use oc shields? maybe oc armor while we're at it?
Like I said, this is tricky to balance right.

[hazy umbra]

you misunderstand, oc is burst damage, not oc is consistent, make the burst more punishing to use

[ocean quail]

Let me look at it from a more conceptual pov now for a bit. Suppose the idea is that ships can have brief periods of oc, this would mean the entire concept of the game would change froma sandbox shipbuilder/designer to designing a ship based on being able to "power up" at the right moment.

One consequence of this would be a significant increase in micromanagement.
This doesn't have to be necessarily bad as this is a design choice, but this design choice will change the entire concept of how one is supposed to design ships and how to play them.

[hazy umbra]

half your infrastructre becomes a liability in a fight despite being the same cost as the enemy

hm

that is true

I know most games do the heat system by forcing you to stop using it till its all cooled off, for us that just means it explodes

[pale cargo]

the problem with a sandbox is that it is very hard to balance, because people can just make a design better

[hazy umbra]

the heat effect, does that effect armor values?

tho that just leans into the gass cannon thing even harder

hmm

[ocean quail]

I don't think armor is buffed this way (?)

[wicked lotus]

Which is why I mentioned recently that I think heat will become very hard to manage. Builds up fast, slow to dissipate. Give players a chance to reposition or save resources to punish occasions.

[wheat wigeon]

can i join one of the 🔨 creative gemes plz to see and try stuff !?

[ocean quail]

Balance was pretty good in cosmoteer, carefully tweaked values and projectile velocities etc.
With these oc's as they are now balance basically goes out the window.

[hazy umbra]

need to nerf radiators

[wicked lotus]

That would be a part of it yep.

Possibly in both effectiveness and price.

[hazy umbra]

yup

[ocean quail]

You should be able to by selecting the preview build from the library page thingy in steam

[near flax]

strong disagree, with offensive buffs we also get defensive buffs, the balance comes from difficultly to make it sustain and the possibility of your ship burning down

[hazy umbra]

Heat Cells also feel a tad bit busted, probably more of the same tho

[wicked lotus]

Heat storage itself could radiate heat to nearby blocks, requiring ships that store a lot of heat to have exposed sections.

[wheat wigeon]

done that, now i want to join someones game - maybe i should ask in lfg

[ocean quail]

Then you find that the 2 ships, one having oc and one doesn't, but the oc ship clearly beating the non-oc ship is overlooked by you. This is clearly an imbalance

[hazy umbra]

be neat if that gave the metal trusses more use

[near flax]

for example, oced shields have 3x health

[hazy umbra]

and less coverage

[near flax]

alternatively, you get rewarded for dealing with an additional risk and design challenge

[worn hound]

i think the game's inertial dampening struggles with overclocked thrusters

[delicate vigil]

is it really ok for cannon shrapnel to cause this much fire XD

this like 7 or 8 hits

[ocean quail]

Seems to me you get rewarded for using a ship with oc's and punished if you don't.

[bitter steppe]

Shrapnel does 0 damage against armor

[near flax]

yay!

[hazy umbra]

I will say thats like says you get rewarded for using shields and punished if you dont

[ocean quail]

Making oc's mandatory to remain competitive is a textbook example of how to not balance something

[near flax]

sorry to get elitist rq, but how much pvp have you played?

[ocean quail]

Only if you use oc's on your shields. If you don't oc dc will simply punch through

[hazy umbra]

if you dont use a tool then that seems like a handicap for yourself

[worn hound]

consider the following

[ocean quail]

That is indeed elitist and not a constructive way to enter a dialogue. I'd suggest you refrain from walking down this particular path

[worn hound]

OC's make it far less effective to have giant walls of armor surrounding your ship

since you need somewhere to radiate heat away

[hazy umbra]

oh yes it'll absolutely shift things around but thats the cost of getting more depth

[worn hound]

so theres at least that weakness to somewhat balance out the strength of OCs

[ocean quail]

Don't forget it's always better to receive any type of constructive critisism now instead of after sucha change goes live.

[bitter steppe]

It's an entirely new system that's being added to the game, all ships will have access to it. That's like saying ships built without parts that weren't added to the game yet are going to become obsolete when new parts get added...

like... idk what you expect 😅

[ocean quail]

But you do

I expect things to be balanced

[worn hound]

i expect this game to be perfect and every single block is just as useful as every other block

[ocean quail]

I thought I had made myself fairly clear regarding this. it's bascially all I have mentioned in this thread as of now

[near flax]

I do think it's constructive to consider the about experience someone has with something in order to help determine the potential accuracy of the feedback.

[worn hound]

i dont want to be punished for using fire extinguishers as armor instead of armor blocks

im losing my marbles

[wicked lotus]

And it will be eventually. Balanced to use all the mechanics in the game.

[near flax]

I wouldn't ask someone who has zero experience with chess about solid openings for example

[worn hound]

e4

[near flax]

everyone has separate knowledge Pools and that's a good thing

[pale cargo]

did this happen when the chaingun was added?

[ocean quail]

Nah, you were merelyattempting to devalue my opinion by suggesting I lack the proper knowledge so you wouldn't need to take my feedback seriously, so you could easily dismiss my opinion.

[bitter steppe]

If the only part you have in mind is OC Deck Cannons, rest assured that they will almost certainly get nerfed. They were only recently changed to their current implementation and the numbers are not finalized.

[eager gyro]

can confurm

[worn hound]

finally we have hollywood-accurate high knockback bullets

[near flax]

you know what, youre right, I'm sorry

[wicked lotus]

I really love this. Not the damage, but the force. If it gets balanced but retains the force, I can imagine OC DCs being used to rotate ships and open up blind spots opportunistically.

[ocean quail]

Lets try to remain constructive, shall we? In the end we all want the best for this game.

[worn hound]

i want what is worst for the game

give me power of the sun instant death beam

[hazy umbra]

I want whats the most funni, but I do feel like if the heat system is super nerfed like some people want then it just becomes a modded part with reduced steps

[eager gyro]

[wheat wigeon]

right clicking the thermal beam in the energy weapons build menu (to favorite it) crashes my game every time - was this reported already?

[ocean quail]

For people wanting a more arcade feel of the game, this update is probably pure bliss.

[pale cargo]

when cosmoteer gonna be better strategy game

[ocean quail]

If this update hits, it's gonna (as it appears to me) add even more micromanagement, meaning less RTS than before

[hazy umbra]

I mean if Jani add Heat Logic that would be fun

[pale cargo]

five hundred hotkeys

[ocean quail]

Can;'t have a fleet of ships if you need to time your 'power ups' perfectly on multiple of your ships

It will simply be less effective

or more time consuming/tedious

[hazy umbra]

alternativly just have one big ship

select all

[worn hound]

why would you need to time your power ups

just have them all powered up

[ocean quail]

because I understood the oc's were supposed to only work some of the time, not all the time

[worn hound]

why not all the time

[hazy umbra]

despite wanting the counter heat systems nerfed, I will be makin my ship with constant heat in mind

[ocean quail]

The logical conclusion indeed.

[hazy umbra]

ohgodmylogi

[pale cargo]

if the heat OC was constant, it would make big ships exponentially better than small ships

[hazy umbra]

guess its all energy weapons cause otherwise my ship will look like a factorio base

[hazy umbra]

need some small radiators

[alpine needle]

i have a question, i was able to figure out the Dilation pump makes the AOE bigger but what does the Amplification pump do does it set fires faster?

[hazy umbra]

could be good if the more oc systems you have on a pipe the hotter it gets

[eager gyro]

-# psst, you only need 2 radiators and a battery to keep an ocdc functional

[bitter steppe]

Increases the amount of heat applied

[alpine needle]

sooo it melts the other ships faster in dumbies turms?

[worn hound]

yes

[hazy umbra]

you fool, you underestimate the size my ships get to

[bitter steppe]

yeah it makes your TRBs apply more heat
which applies to all TRBs connected to the thermal system*

[alpine needle]

thanks

[eager gyro]

lol

[alpine needle]

so if i had a seccond TRB turret on the same system they would be shooting the same power lazer

[pale cargo]

compact versions of heat stuff would be cool for fighters

[alpine needle]

i now have the "I just want to set the wooooooorld on Fireeeeeeeeeeeeeee" song snipit idk stuck in my head

[bitter steppe]

I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to start a flame in your heart*

Fallout soundtrack vibes

[alpine needle]

oh well i was close :p

[bitter steppe]

I know the exact song, and it's been playing in my head for weeks

[alpine needle]

also is it just me building it wonky or does shields compleatly counter it

[steady sphinx]

is it just me or do overclocked railguns just not work? (they dont fire but make sounds as if they would)

[worn hound]

guys rate my ship
-# gamma is windows fault not mine

[worn hound]

they have a charge up time

the sound is currently not really synced to that charge up

[bitter steppe]

Shields do stop the beam, but it applies heat to the shields

[steady sphinx]

i havent seen a projectile exit them

or them usin ammo

[worn hound]

tryna design something comparable to a starter ship but using overclocking

[alpine needle]

yh i am going crazy with overclocking to now i dont know why

[marsh aurora]

Any idea if modders will be able to create new status effects, kind of fire re-skins: freeze, acid, electric static, infestation, etc?

[bitter steppe]

there's a delay as it charges up. You can see the charge as it fill the rail
There is currently an issue however with long rails where they can have a charge time longer than the firing cooldown and get stuck in a loop without firing. Known issue and will be fixed ^^

[alpine needle]

that would be awsome

[eager gyro]

infinty boost

[worn hound]

would be cool to see a ship sort of like this as one of the starter ships

[alpine needle]

oh yh forgot overclocking a booster allows u to give it battaries mid boost

[worn hound]

OC'd starter ship be a good example to show players how to set up a basic heat dissipation system

[pale cargo]

what if radiators could help dissipate heat from armor

[steady sphinx]

this looks kinda cool

[bitter steppe]

there will eventually be built-ins that use overclocks to use as examples

[weary sparrow]

Tbh the consume of fuel should grow exponentially when you are charging overclocked boosters

Boosting

[weary sparrow]

And yes, I am saying it out of spite because how sharp is the heat curve of the M.R.T

[worn hound]

yea ofc, i just hope that also includes a simple starter ship tho, not just npcs

[bitter steppe]

the heat generation increases over time so eventually if you don't toggle your boost off to reset you'll set yourself on fire

[worn hound]

wait that explains whats going wrong with my ship

my bow thrusters were getting extremely hot

[alpine needle]

also could someone just let me know if heat goes through rooms such as if i overclocked this reactor would it be able to get to the radiator at the top there

[eager gyro]

i did notice that after the ship exploded

[worn hound]

i just activated them for half a second and my engine room immediately exploded lmao

[eager gyro]

nope, cant go though other parts

[alpine needle]

dident think so thanks for the conformation

[bitter steppe]

Nope, the only things other than pipes that heat can pass through are heat weapons like TRBs and Thermal Launchers, technically radiators as well

[ocean quail]

I hope so! I am pretty sure there are plenty of ideas floating around within the modding community regarding this change 🙂

[alpine needle]

ahhhhhh thanks for the info

[marsh aurora]

Static Electricity would be cool, and infestation for alien faction would be amazing!!!

[alpine needle]

also what does Unreliability mean exactly here?

[worn hound]

hold up static electricity sounds fire

[ocean quail]

I do have a couple ideas myself, but gonna wait till this goes live before committing

[worn hound]

imagine it builds up and you have a specific weapon that can discharge it onto the enemy before it builds up too much that it starts EMPing your own ship

[bitter steppe]

You WILL set yourself on fire

[marsh aurora]

A tesla coil weapon or a energy discarge missile that puts static energy into enemy ships to deal damage and drain energy/stun crew

[ocean quail]

Also, think about having nebula potentially also affect ship parts in other certain ways 🙂

[marsh aurora]

Nice

[wheat wigeon]

tinkering with the heat system 🤯

[ocean quail]

The customizeable fire/damage types is for me personally perhaps the most interesting about this preview

[alpine needle]

yeahhh i know theres a modded Nebula that had somin similar to this imagine that if while in the nebula ur ship passively heats up meaning u gotta have a good heat system to be able to drain it all

[marsh aurora]

Wait, We can!!!
#1370799036591898837 message

[ocean quail]

Any system actually.
I guess some modder could even add in mana/magic if he wanted to lol

[marsh aurora]

More status effects!

[wheat wigeon]

actually a similar energy delivery system similar to heat pipes but with cables would be cool/hot !

[worn hound]

by will do you mean figuratively or literally it will eventually just catch fire

[wicked lotus]

Seems like if you used Thermal Exchangers you could massively reduce the pipeline, making this more compact. Probably literally 2/3s the size, maybe even less, if done well enough.

[worn hound]

o yea probably

[ocean quail]

One thing I always found an interesting idea is to have some kind of weapon system or whatever being able to recharge only in certain nebula or something. I'm reasonably sure I'm not the first one to get this idea

[marsh aurora]

It would be nice if crew could enter a special structure like a fire extinguisher to get a special device to manually remove heat from facilities

[alpine needle]

that does sound awsome

[ocean quail]

Or being able to mine resources in clouds or something

[bitter steppe]

It's just a way to say there are downsides to pumping things full of thermal energy... one of the most likely being that it will overheat and catch on fire. Some thing also require more power to operate, etc.

[worn hound]

but there isnt just a random chance something spontaneously catches fire if theres enough dissipation, right?

[bitter steppe]

Some thing generate such high volumes of heat that you'll also want Thermal Batteries to buffer the heat spike so your dissapation can do its thing

[worn hound]

well yea like deck cannons

[bitter steppe]

but assuming you have everything set up well, yyou should be fine

[worn hound]

good

you had me worried with your ominous statement earlier

[alpine needle]

also when i first saw the Radiator and figured out how it worked the first thing i thought of was the death star exaust port as a weakness that blows up the entire ship

[pale python]

the roof for heat pipes being like that
but still being readable
not sure how that could really be handled and i dont think current is the way

[bitter steppe]

lol no, it's just a joke about the Meltdown update because there are gonna be so many times that you accidentally set yourself on fire for some reason or another, like forgetting to fire your Thermal Missiles

[worn hound]

cool

or well

not cool

opposite of cool

[alpine needle]

safe to say Walt got the name of the update spot on

[ocean quail]

Another thing I've been wondering. How does the heat system affect performance?
I suppose the game slowdown wasn't added in to compensate for any hypothetical performance decrease caused by the new heating system?

[pale python]

no it was more in response to games being played slow already and also peformance (in a even older slowdown preview)

i think

[bitter steppe]

We all stress tested things the best we could. @kind estuary was solely responsible for dozens of crashes and performance issues that we werre able to get fixed before the public launch!

Laser had a build grid sized ship that was an absolute lag monster that helped find and fix so many issues

[tranquil wedge]

It seems to work very well (except for small blaster oc but thats a different reason)

[wheat wigeon]

How do i get thermal missiles to work - they fire one round then they relaod but never sparkle

[alpine needle]

i havent tried playing with them yet :p

[bitter steppe]

They require heat and a pipe connection

[alpine needle]

cooool

[wheat wigeon]

but the launcher has no pipe connection? how to heat them up?

[dense kestrel]

dang

[bitter steppe]

This is actually a minor bug where it doesn't show the connection point or appear connected to the launcher in blueprint mode, but this is where the pipe connects on tile in front of the doorr

[worn hound]

i got this now

but a heat exchanger cannot handle small lasers

[ruby niche]

rate

yes everything is overclocked

yes it can keep up

[dense kestrel]

wth how

[ruby niche]

only problem is thrusters flicker slightly

[dense kestrel]

well doesnt look bad 7.569/10

[pale python]

i think roof colored heat pipes is better

its less extremly intrusive

do consider

[stuck roost]

[wicked lotus]

Ye maybe I overstimated how much it can be compressed. I have seen some insanely compressed small ships but now than I think back they were using remote PD and stuff as weapons in that case. 2-crew kind of setups. Actual weapons may be too much for just exchangers, unless maybe you use several of them overlapping weapons.

[worn hound]

yea, one exchanger just cannot take heat away from a small laser fast enough

[wicked lotus]

Well try 2 if it is cost efficient enough. Could maybe remove the pipelines spine and compress it further, so that 2 exchangers reach the front half. Not sure how the costs look.

I am trying really hard not to jump into the preview myself and wait for more concrete settings.
This is hard, because it looks dope lmao.

[worn hound]

why would you not jump into the preview

give into temptation

[wicked lotus]

😭 Tempting people.

[pale python]

(I think I'll make a suggestion post if it gets buried)

[wheat wigeon]

and you can only generate heat by running (or overclocking) other systems? there is no heater to fill those missiles up?

[wheat wigeon]

well - radiators always suck out all heat of my system without filling up the missiles

[bitter steppe]

What I try to go for is enough radiators to cover my passive heat generation/thrust and then use TCMs to dump large amounts of heat as a weapon when I actually start using my weapons, or when my OC shields take damage, etc.

it's a great idea to have more radiators than you need, all you would need to do is hotkey and toggle them off if you need more heat

[worn hound]

rate the shielded radiator wall

[wheat wigeon]

This update is huge.

Wonder if thrusters will also get nerfed when parts are behind them, like the Radiator.

[pale python]

Planned iirc

[wheat wigeon]

imho a heat generator using energy would be a good adition - otherwise ppl (me) will build strange things just to generate heat for missiles.

[worn hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1370799036591898837/1370959791526121572/toothpick.gif

[worn hound]

^ such as my sensor array oven

[wheat wigeon]

the heat system is more complex then then the main power system ...

[plucky fossil]

i disagree - transport is instant and infinite within a network

[wheat wigeon]

but construction wise heat is complex

[worn hound]

makes sense tho for gameplay

power is necessary for all ships so it should be fairly simple and reliable

heat is an additional, optional system that is more advanced and complicated but gives strong bonuses

[wheat wigeon]

i thought that before; how acessible is cosmoteer for new players (?)
the more complex the less (?)

[wheat wigeon]

heat is the 2nd power system !?

[plucky fossil]

"optional"

[worn hound]

keep the basics basic and make players work for higher bonuses

[worn hound]

strong but definitely optional, especially outside of pvp

[plucky fossil]

not with current balance

[worn hound]

im talking more about career and stuff

[plucky fossil]

less sidegrade, which is both supposed dev intention and what the description says and more upgrade in too many cases

[plucky fossil]

everything is optional in career

[worn hound]

well it does upgrade things but at a cost of complexity
im not saying its not very much worth the extra complexity, and im not saying its balanced how it is, but its still optional

[plucky fossil]

you don't even need weapons to win

[narrow blade]

is crew optional

[wheat wigeon]

power is required - not optional

[plucky fossil]

true

[worn hound]

yall dont understand what optional means

optional does not mean competitive, and im not even saying its well balanced rn

[wheat wigeon]

even crew could get optional or greatly reduced with the "drones" update or how it is called.

[plucky fossil]

it shouldn't be worth the complexity

[worn hound]

what

[plucky fossil]

well maybe for your usecase

but not in general

it should never be a direct upgrade

[worn hound]

yes it should

i mean

it should depend on a bit of stuff

but for most cases you should have a good incentive to work harder to make something better

there are maybe a few cases where you wouldnt go for that, like on a heavy armored brick you may not feasibly be able to fit radiators, or on a smaller ship those heat pipes get in the way too much, but generally speaking you should have incentive that rewards you for putting more effort into designing something

[plucky fossil]

incentive should be more specialized

not just better in general

[worn hound]

on average

complexity should be rewarded rather than have a neutral result

[plucky fossil]

ex. current attempt at deck cannon

[wheat wigeon]

(chaingun is my least favourite weapon)

[worn hound]

on average i fully expect an overclocked ship to be a bit better than a non OC ship, not by a wide margin but definitely a bit

[grim gyro]

non overclocked reactors?

[plucky fossil]

the lr and its consequences for the cosmoteer meta....

conplexity should be *worse* overall and be better in only what it is specialzied in

[worn hound]

do you think a simple ship should be just as effective as a complex intricately designed ship

thats how we get deck cannon walls

[plucky fossil]

why not

[worn hound]

because thats how we get deck cannon walls

[plucky fossil]

and what is wrong with that

now you can make a specialized anti deck cannon wall ship

worse overall, but does its job

[wheat wigeon]

i think OC sould be really better not only a bit, given the complexity and cost to make it work.

[worn hound]

specialization is good but that specialization should not be largely tied to complexity

[plucky fossil]

having specialized parts that are worse overall but whose strengths synergizenor cover weaknesses is what makes interesting design

[worn hound]

specialization and complexity are not the same thing

[plucky fossil]

it has to be for new players

[worn hound]

thats really not how that worksx

[plucky fossil]

look at implementation of lr/mr