Rework/Expansion of IFF, Sensors plus low tech stealth

[alpine cliff]

I apologies in advanced as this will likely be a mess as i rewrite it hundreds of times and snip parts back together, this idea is also to go with my previous post about the Galaxy gen change, but can also fit in the current gen system.

Currently when travelling though the system, you can get a quick idea of whats travelling around you, grey IFFs travelling in a straight line between stations and the relays are civilian cargo ships, ones that are not will be patrols, and all red IFF's will be pirates who will attack you immediately when within a certain range, IFF's always being red can make sense for target bounties when your given a detailed location (Though having some fugitive bounties where your not given a precise locations could be interesting), however for things like the roaming pirates it make less sense, they would want to stay hidden, IFFs could work in a way where AI and you can turn off your IFF and "run cold" this will lower your signal detection range however will also force your ship to be slower (could also lower how far you can pick up other pings though that might be too much of a punish meant) this will not only allow for some low tech stealth as a more high tech option cloaking, is already planned, this will also spice up the ambush mechanic that is planned

Being around faction ships with your IFF off could also allow for new ways to interact with the factions, having your IFF off within "civilised" space will come with a fine, depending on your relations with said faction they might charge you more or less, maybe even with low enough of a relation they will assume you to be a threat regardless, or even being in higher combat systems

Having your IFF off can also bring in new trade and mission types, everyone love to smuggle illegal goods, though maybe being impossible with the proper factions (Monolith, Imperium and Cabal) Fringe and maybe a new type of station "black sites" or pirate bases or something similar would be more open to illegal trade however might be pushed to still uphold certain laws mainly Fringe
Trade on the Black Marker can lead to cheaper prices on certain regular goods, a set amount however as to not abuse simply always buying low at illegal ports

A possible way to trade with "civilised" stations could be through missions, there could be a cargo ship hiding somewhere close to the station that you trade with, this however could also be an ambush if it is the reward will be in whats salvaged, with either the cargo ship itself holding valuables, or the attacking ships

Sensor also currently feel a little off only really being used on kitting ships to fully use the potential of their range, though a more odd change, rather then just extending your sensor range, it shows outlines of objects outside of your visual range, this can help with countering ships running with their IFFs off but also help when in dense clouds, this could open up to traversing through systems with dense nebula, maybe even add in a new type of system, a young system with a red dwarf at its centre and a dense dust cloud completely encompasses it with many large asteroids and a bunch of small proto planets but no gas giants

[pulsar gyro]

I think another thing that would improve the radar blips would be more interactions with NPCs, both patrol ships and pirates could attempt to follow you when they spot you.

Patrol ships would (usually) broadcast what ship they are, and would sometimes come to investigate other ships. The chance would increase if you hide your signal. If you get their message but try to escape, they could either fine or attack you if they catch you, based on reputation. This could also be combined with smuggling and boarding, if/once they're implemented.

Pirates would follow you occasionally to attack you, but flee from ships that share their info and are stronger than them (the opposite for weaker ships). Their attack chance depends on the distance from the sun, as far away you're least likely to receive help fast enough.

[gaunt holly]

If a player wants to hunt down a pirate ship, then he needs to turn off the signal, so the pirate doesn't avoid the player; but if the player turns off the signal he'll be punished for it.

I think the player could get some form of temporary license when accepting a pirate hunting mission, and a high enough reputation will function as a permanent one.

[pulsar gyro]

Yeah that could work

[ivory oxide]

Iirc, walt has some ideas for a stealth mode.
Also for your idea with sensors - it would be interesting if you could only see the outline facing you and not the rest as those are behind other stuff. If done correctly, you could hide ships on the „surface“ of asteroids.

[alpine cliff]

Yea I was thinking it only showing one side, just was a little tedious to get the image right so I just quickly uploaded this

Preferable they would only show the side facing the sensor, only issue I could see with that is if the game actually tracks all of that when shops are not fully loaded in or smthing, also probably have them be a new colour, yellow or orange maybe as grey is already hard to see sometimes

[past ore]

Tacking my ideas onto this thread as it's the most relevant (other threads being about cloaking) and I think would work well with the ideas presented in this thread.

IFF/Radar Signature

With IFF (Which I'm unsure what it stands for, but I'm going to assume proceed assuming it's synonymous with radar), it would be cool to add a part/ship stat along the lines of radar cross-section (RCS) to represent how "loud" a ship is on the radar. This adds another layer of optional consideration to ship-design if you want to make a quiet ship. (e.g. you might avoid adding deck cannons or other "tall" parts to stealth ships if those have a higher RCS stat).

Stealth-oriented parts with low RCS stats like stealth armor could be made of different materials and/or have stealthy design like a tumblehome hull (e.g. the Zumwalt). A more expensive/somewhat less protective (3k hp for a 1x1?) armor variant that weights for stealth.

Instead of detection radius depending solely on the radar of the locating ship, it would also be affected by the RCS score of surrounding ships, and ships outside visual range could have different shapes/icons based on their RCS score, or a mouse-over number telling you the stat.

A ship with a low enough RCS score might even get within visual range of a ship before it’s picked up on radar, which I think could pair well with ambushes and/or whatever cloaking looks like.

[past ore]

Other Signatures

In real life, there are many forms of detection, not just radar. I think it would be cool if Cosmoteer also had this with things like energy/reactor signatures (or maybe engine/drive signatures like in the Expanse?) and heat signatures based on the new meltdown mechanics.

Ships could be equipped with different types of sensor parts to detect different things (heat, energy, etc), and the detection mechanics would work similarly to the ones outlined above for radar.

Some ideas:

• Thermal sensors detect ships based on the amount of heat they are actively venting.
• Reactor/energy signatures detect based on reactor power production or total ship power. Or if this is thruster-based, maybe tie it to kN, though power consumption could also work. The energy/engine-detection idea is the weakest, I feel.

[subtle briar]

IFF = Identification, Friend or Foe

[past ore]

ahh

ty

[alpine cliff]

kinda forgot i made this post, nice addition

[past ore]

thanks! It was a good post to add to. I like the dynamics your ideas would add to immersion

[pulsar gyro]

Ooo I really like the RCS, I would keep it at increasing it based on the size, amount of armor and deck weapons (I think asteroids should have a high RCS as well and be displayed with a custom IFF icon). RCS should also affect how fast you hide in gaseous clouds. I would ignore the light armor tho, that's not something Walt prefers, you can just use less armor.

As for the other radar signatures, I think it should be all in the one sensor we have now, but it should take some time to switch between the modes, like it does now with OCing. You should also have to buy each mode (- the basic radar increase one) as a blueprint (OC should stay as one blueprint and buff every mode, to give it a downside it should also increase your own RCS). I would also add a hyperdrive signature increased by the size and amount of the ship's hyperdrives, and massively increased by hyperjump beacons (so you could use this to hunt beacon ships down if there's a career 2.0/3.0 mission with that).

[past ore]

Ohh, I didn’t think of hyperdrives! That’s cool.

[past ore]

Yeah, it would definitely affect cloud interactions! My initial thought for the stealth-oriented armor were stealth blocks (rather than armor variants) which subtract from your RCS score, but if those are also exterior blocks, I guess it kinda ends up feeling like light armor anyway, and a subtractive RCS value might be too abusable/weird, like if you make a tiny ship and end up with a negative or 0 value

[tropic oyster]

I got 2 suggestions to add to this.
First is to make the different radar modes into modules that attach to the radar itself as frankly i think switching between modes is a bit too much of a hassle lol especially if you needa wait ingame time to do so
Secondly, perhaps give the radar, and specifically the one you put on your ship as i dont think the default blips you get need this. Its the ability to tell your radar to "scan" a target. This is based on how irl radar works as a system usually has a low frequency radar that can scan for objects across vast distances and a short frequency radar that can track targets accurately, the idea is essentialy to make that ship visualisation feature require user input as the scan would show the targets outline, could perhaps even be used to scan through nebulas to see if anyone is hiding or try and catch any ships that may be cloaked ahead

[pulsar gyro]

I'm against the use of modules or other parts because of balance concerns and no downside, you'd just use all of them instead of having to choose one, which I believe would make for more interesting decision making

[tropic oyster]

My second suggestion can still work on its own tbh