Modular Thruster Preview Feedback

[languid sand]

thats not the case

[plucky thunder]

I'm adding rockets to the Arbalest

Arbalest can now move faster than astroids !

Arbalest is no longer classified as a weapon platform

Arbalest can now push shestopyor faster than it could move before

Arbalest can now move forward faster than it can reverse

[brittle thorn]

why thrust plumes unequal?

in the gif

[plucky thunder]

Not same length of rocket

Rocket arbalest has 2 smaller ones

While Onager has a single huge one

[brittle thorn]

no i meant on the arbalest

[plucky thunder]

ramp up shenanigans

[brittle thorn]

ah

[plucky thunder]

Inserts eurobeat music

Wait is that a bug because the reactor is stalling or is it a feature that crew can take two and one batteries out of the LR ?

Because I surely don't have that mod installed

It's not even a 1 battery, it's a 3 battery charged not even one level

[languid sand]

Visual bug?

[plucky thunder]

maybe

I don't know

[languid sand]

Id say thats more likely

Just tell us if you can reproduce it consistently

[plucky thunder]

It happens like every few seconds

It's consistent when a lot of crew go to reactor

Here is the ship file

[plucky thunder]

I think there's a huge issue with the MRS.

It's too darn expensive design wise. It's costly, and rampup is hella long, you can't use your already placed engine-rooms to add revese thrust... It takes so much space to be worth it and it's going to be a crew sink if you go budget route, or an budget sink if you go crew efficiency

It's not even that much more thrust efficient than the HT anymore

There's little reason to use these than to go really fast on a light ships, or to have a propulsion on long ships that actually does something

[brittle thorn]

it is cost wise atleast

[plucky thunder]

Not really

It can be

But you need so many reactors and crew...

I mean

[brittle thorn]

same as ht

per kn of thrust

[plucky thunder]

2 more crew and 500k just to go 20m/s faser while forgoing any reverse thrust

Well

No it's biased

I sr spammed a bit

Ignore that

I'm dumb

You still end up using one more LR

While I could use leftover enegy from shields and ions to power my old prop

[brittle thorn]

mrs requires more resource to it but is more efficient because of that

[plucky thunder]

I think being 10% more efficient than HT isn't a significant enough advantage for all the drawbacks

[brittle thorn]

there aren't any drawbacks though

[plucky thunder]

Yes they are

[brittle thorn]

it is more compact, efficient both crew, energy and cost wise and doesn't cost much surface area

[plucky thunder]

Look at the space it takes, because you forgo the deadzones you also weigh more

[brittle thorn]

made up by it being more efficient overall

[plucky thunder]

The deadzones don't weigh anything

[brittle thorn]

they aren't beneficial too

[plucky thunder]

I don't think they are actually more efficient

Maybe it's a tie

[brittle thorn]

they are more efficient in all of their setups

[plucky thunder]

Know what, I'm going to make a missile kite with a rocket

1.5mil

and see if it's better than my Thanatos

[brittle thorn]

also keep in mind this is as good as ht gets

it flickers and goes at 190m/s

alone

nothing on top

this is practically the cap for speed before mrs

[plucky thunder]

Also since you would be most likely using fuel pods (for crew and reactor efficiency) each extender is 10.5k

[brittle thorn]

so double ht thrust for the same cost?

with er it is triple thrust

[sinful vapor]

You can also build in super efficient ER clusters at the bottom at least, touching a Nozzle, an Extender and 1-2 HTs on every Rocket. One Engine Room sitting in the middle of 2 Rockets at the Nozzles area can hit 2 Nozzles, 2 Extenders and a Huge Thruster thrown in. Insane boost from a single Engine Room addition, all pushing one direction, and makes supplying power to them easier.

[plucky thunder]

I made the most scuffed missile kite EVER

It's below 1.5mil

It can only turn in one direction despite the small thrusters

Oh great I fogot symetry on my crew

walt, are you sure the side thrust on the MRS is in both direction ?

[sinful vapor]

I was about to say, that seems super cheap for what it is, so as long as the small thrusters operate well, it should be pretty good, though fragile. Always awkward driving towards something with a Kite, when you have to turn around to even be effective.

[plucky thunder]

It can't turn even with small thrusters

Lmao

Explain this

I don't understand, the ships weight is completely balanced

Also that's x8

Look how slow it turns in x1

[sinful vapor]

I have no clue. If there isn't some kind of problem in particular, I would assume the lateral thrust values for Rockets, which were recently changed to not scale with extenders IIRC, could have incorrect values or something.

[plucky thunder]

I added some more maneuver thrusters

Turns slightly better

[plucky thunder]

What bugs me is that it doesn't rotate at the same speed in both directions

[sinful vapor]

Yeah, I-shaped thruster setup is ideal for long ships turning.

And yeah that would be the problem. It should if it is built properly, and I don't see anything showing it is not.

[plucky thunder]

Same price, left is faster and more powerful, right is more maneuvrable and has better protection

let's be honest, both have insane firepower

I swear if the egg was 2mil I could make it good

but PVP is 1.5 mil

and 8 mm ship wouldn't be unique anymore

[sinful vapor]

I imagine some relatively cheap, fast Needle-like Railgun setups will make an appearance some time, to chase ships down and snipe weakpoints.

So funny enough, while everything will get faster, the threat of vital points getting targeted may increase, so some of the speed may need to be sacrificed for safety. Same as it always is, but now with higher top speeds and new ship designs.

[plucky thunder]

Painted it

A bit

[brittle thorn]

tbh if not for rails existing you could win with it in pvp

[languid sand]

Competitive players will disagree

[plucky thunder]

I just realised how wrong i am

I'm cooking somthing

You'll see

[chrome marlin]

20 m/s is a big deal

[plucky thunder]

This orbits at 100m/s

at least it orbits a static point in space at weapon range at that speed

what do you think

[sinful vapor]

Oh nice, someone actually using the ER cluster at the top/bottom. Idk why but it seems like lots of ships so far haven't been implementing that. If they use ERs at all they try and do the whole thing.

Looks pretty good to me, though I have no experience with Orbiters.

[plucky thunder]

It's not quite 1.5mil

There's room to add stuff

It's a proof of concept basically

[sinful vapor]

Damn that seems brutal. And that is without the EMP barrages taking out all powered systems.

[plucky thunder]

YES

IT IS

I don't even know if the red ship can turn that fast

You need to manual pilot tho

[sinful vapor]

Of course. May want some kind of backwards thrust implemented so you can stop where needed to focus-fire though. Certainly would not want to circle into firing range.

Unless it stops well enough, idk.

[plucky thunder]

You don't want to stop ahah just slow down

If you stop you lose ramp up

[sinful vapor]

Fair, I forgot to consider the ramp up with the new MRS.

I would consider that a drawback for sure when it comes to Orbiting then.

[plucky thunder]

yes

[vagrant flume]

Do I see conversations of MRS being too weak?

[plucky thunder]

nope

not anymore

I proved myself wrong

[vagrant flume]

Lol

[sinful vapor]

Definitely not, just different dynamics with them.

[boreal swan]

ok but what if the enemy does as well

[plucky thunder]

Depends on their mobility

[vagrant flume]

I made me a MRS UL nuke that goes 186 which is 60% the size of a HT version

[plucky thunder]

Also the point of an orbiter is to dodge right ? Not necessarly avoid all damage but minimise it ?

[sinful vapor]

I suppose as long as an enemies firepower cannot overwhelm your large shields each circle, they are dead in the water.

[vagrant flume]

Dodge slow projectiles, spread out damage from faster ones

[boreal swan]

u can't if the opponent is a competent pilot

[plucky thunder]

I remember an orbiter player just dodgin' missiles forever

[boreal swan]

u can only move 1 way

ig against missiles since they r dumb

but even then, they can sit next to rock

[plucky thunder]

True, you can orbit the rock tho

ahah

Try the ship for yourself IG

See how it pilots

[vagrant flume]

Missiles are such a pain

[boreal swan]

i've made stuff like that in classic

i assume it works mostly the same

[sinful vapor]

The additional speed certainly makes it more dangerous though. Slower ships beware, invest more in turning.

[boreal swan]

no

turning is cringe

just be faster

outpilot it

[vagrant flume]

Lol

Who needs turning thrusters anyways?

[plucky thunder]

ahah

[vagrant flume]

Turning can’t save them if they can’t hit you

[plucky thunder]

Old orbiters orbit at half the speed of this ship at twice the distance

this ship is very hard to hit

[deft crow]

that's actually overloading the reactor a lot, 7 ers doesnt overload

i know there's ships with 8 (I have some) but thrust always flickers mid battle and there's no way to prevent it

[brittle thorn]

7 flickers

just alot less and has mild flicker phases instead of rampant flickering

i still think 8 er is fine

[marble mauve]

you use to be able to, and the removal of that completely ruins my once working setup
these assignments seemed to just delete themselves when i opened the resource manager

[compact kite]

Just wanted to mention again that this is the most exciting cosmoteer update ever for me 🚀 - unfortunately i'm too sick 🤒 to rly focus on anything in depth atm and thus cannot give much feedback. Don't worry my situaton is not dangerous but will take some time.
I t(h)rust the community that modular rockets will grow nicely!

[languid sand]

Love that youre excited though I think you will hate them as theyll make speed meta stronger lol

[sinful vapor]

Meta is meta, it just means new ships to build. For instance, whenever we get a new defensive option in a patch it may swing the other way sharply. Imagine a Bubble shield. Heavy, energy intensive, may need to be full charged to turn on so flickering it isn't viable, but could be very powerful as a second layer of defense, and one that protects even weak areas of the ship.

Such a ship may not need to keep up, so much as have enough defense and offense to fend off ships that invest too heavily into speed, so in a battle of attrition between weapons the heavier one wins.

I do think projectile speed will see an increase in short order after the MRS drops on stable though. Can missiles even remotely keep up with new ship designs? Deck Cannons? Maybe EMP speed would just need an increase, and then we have an EMP meta to catch fast ships.

[brittle thorn]

honestly all we need to hardcounter speed is a fast emp

[sinful vapor]

Yeah I just edited that in at the end lol.

[brittle thorn]

one hit to the engines and you're dead

[languid sand]

Nerfing thrust is easier than buffing every weapon

[boreal swan]

turtle meta is much worse than speed

[languid sand]

Oh and Im pretty sure a bubble shield would encourage fast ships not slow ones

[sinful vapor]

Correct on two counts, but:

1. It depends on how fast the devs want the game to be mobility wise, and may only need a single buff on EMP.

2. As long as there are ways to break through, more defensive options are just fine. EMPs have been pretty mediocre/not needed on most ships, but a Bubble Shield would make them more viable to break it, on top of a speed buff on them to catch fast ships. EMP meta could be a thing for both.

3. Bubble Shields could be made large enough, heavy enough, or energy intense enough to prevent fast ships having them for the most part. I think their primary purpose would be to protect from miscellaneous damage and Railgun burst as well as create weight categories so tiny ships can't really fight back against larger ones unless they have assistance in breaking through or are left to their own devices and get in really close.

Anyways, pretty off topic here, though it all stems from the meta of MRS in general being introduced and possible changes down the road, so idk. 🤷‍♂️

[compact kite]

but long ships can participate in speed now too! + less holes in ships!
so far i see it is on a good path - even tho i'm dizzy atm ...

[sinful vapor]

Looking at this again, it really does seem like you could replace those weapons with a single Railgun setup and snipe vital points consistently on most ships I've seen in PvP tournament videos. Only exception would basically be Spinners, for obvious reasons. It's just so fast it could pull it off.

[boreal swan]

good luck making that balanced (weight) and have good logistics

[sinful vapor]

Someone is gonna try once it drops in stable, who knows, may be me lol.

[compact kite]

true: weight balance becomes more critical the more thrust you apply

has the RTS control autopilot learned to compensate the high thrust of rockets already?

[marble mauve]

about the speed meta, i noticed that trying to sacrifice any thrust for more armor or weapon firepower is one of the most non-wrothwhile trades that i've ever attempted
i needed to remove 33% of my engines for any significant result on my ships protection/weaponry, too, when the hit to my mobility was far more significant way before i even reached the funds i needed

[boreal swan]

ur logistics being subpar probably does not help either

[languid sand]

Yea its ok. Very slow turning though

[boreal swan]

thrust scales less heavily w/ knowledge than weapons or defenses

[languid sand]

Youll never get to the sides off a competitive ships with a good pilot with this.

[compact kite]

i mean in the first build i tested ships never reached the assigned target destination - but orbited it forever. is that fixed?

[plucky thunder]

Oh nice concept

[languid sand]

Huh I dont actually know because all my test ships dont have reverse to stop

[languid sand]

Interesting railkite concept

But very hard to fit in 1.5 mil budget

I think there has to be a very powerful railkite setup

[languid sand]

OMG 6 railgun kite can go 130 again

Its like the good old days xD

Here the rough prototype:

crazy how it only needs 1 cr

[compact marlin]

I feel like extenders should consume 1-2 control points

Seems a bit overpowered for them not to

[languid sand]

Might be strange but its not overpowered. Basically just decreasing their cost

[compact marlin]

Ers consume them,so I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

[languid sand]

Alternate version

[boreal swan]

assym D:<

what do u do when u get shot by a regular fan

[languid sand]

dont fight a rail fan

[languid sand]

Suffer

[pseudo kelp]

this will revolutionize freighters

[compact kite]

Will revulutionize everything ofc.
But i think the medium and large jumpdrive already revolutionized freighters, so they might profit less from thruster power.

Explorers and Reconnaissance Ships might hugely profit from rocket speed.

[vivid stratus]

In my experience hyperdrives often fall prey to "health Potion hoarding syndrome" where there's plenty to use but you get stingy anyway...

However being able to roll up to space station objectives at high speed and deliver a kill shot to its core will be super valuable in career

[sinful vapor]

It better work too. Most of those are pretty dangerous, so you only get one shot so to speak before that ship is demolished.

[brittle thorn]

die

tbf railkites never win against normal rails anyways

their main advantage just goes away

[languid sand]

Railkites normally counter railfans

[brittle thorn]

i don't think so

when the range advantage goes the kite might aswell stop being one

[dawn rune]

The kite can dip out of rail range between volleys or as needed to recharge its shields. Most normal railfans don't pack large shields, but most kites do, and rails will struggle to break those on their own. If the kite is running PD too, it's even harder.

Of course, if the kite isn't shielded enough or its pilot messes up it dies pretty much instantly.

[brittle thorn]

even then it is at a huge disadvantage imo

[languid sand]

fite me

[brittle thorn]

wait lemme upgrade rq

[languid sand]

Im on normal again

so that I can actually play with other people

[brittle thorn]

dammit i just upgraded

[plucky thunder]

nice

[boreal swan]

can't dip w/ such insane rampup unless u can dive and whip around perfectly every time

unless u do some orbiting stuff? idk

[onyx jungle]

Oh, modular thrusters -- finally

[soft cypress]

do they chain explode???

[brittle thorn]

nop

[soft cypress]

l

[brittle thorn]

they practically die once a part blows up anyways

theyre just dead weight so making them chain is probably better

maybe worse for career tho so ig keep them as is

[sinful vapor]

Depends on where they are broken really, and how much the logistics is hurt in the area.

Does make for an interesting idea though. Using those explosive disassemblers to self-destruct internal parts if they become irrelevant. Not recommended, but an option.

[boreal violet]

the MONEY loss!

[brittle thorn]

for career chaining is bad, for pvp chaining is good

less deadweight but no recovery of resources

[steel vault]

Chaining is literally never good, its just a side-effect of compactness

[brittle thorn]

not chaining functional parts

chaning between modular parts that require eachother, ie accels chaining with the loader and launcher

a railgun wouldn't work without its accel connecting it so it chaining doesn't matter much

[steel vault]

I guess, but its only worthwhile sometimes, not always do I want my whole rail to explode and do damage to whats behind it

[brittle thorn]

trading like 200tonnes for damage to what's behind it is worth it almost always

especially when the gun isn't functional anyways and a single 2x1 wedge can block all of the damage

[vagrant flume]

Chaining is terrible, if they did then all the time I spent making my MRS UL nuke redundant becomes worthless

And too many times have I seen rails chain into ammo storages and blow up the centers of rail fans

I think having some deadweight is better than having to expand your ship to account for chains

[frail pagoda]

Or just design the ship better?

[vagrant flume]

:/

I literally just explained why it wouldn’t work

[boreal swan]

i think it is interesting that if u get cut in half, it still works at 1/2 strength

and also why have chain? the whole thing's not useless since it doesn't have 2 end parts like rails

[vagrant flume]

Ye

You wouldn’t want a single fire in a doorless component to take out everything

Especially with how hard the logistics for MRS already is

[sinful vapor]

I forget, can fires in modules without doors still spread fire?

Because if so, MRS are a potential fire hazard unless you have doors into sections of them.

[junior harbor]

they can't

[sinful vapor]

Good good, that would have been annoying.

Testing fire spreading is tricky right now, unless we get a weapon specializing in starting fires at some point so I wasn't sure.

[junior harbor]

small cannons are your best bet if you didn't know that already

[vagrant flume]

Nah

That’s usually why it’s best to not have doors to the thrusters connecting an engine

Also cannons are already extremely good at spreading fires

[vagrant flume]

ive just noticed that once engines are attached, you cant make crew fuel the individual thrusters attached to it

is that intentional?

[vagrant flume]

this removes any practical way to use MRS with ER + LR

[deft crow]

i haven't tried this in the new update but if bastion is correct this is very bad

[vagrant flume]

both ER and extender priorities are set to 7, reactors are unassigned

this is very bad

[pure juniper]

worth mentionning this is not the case of other thrusters.

[vagrant flume]

seems to be happeneing to normal thrusters as well for me. though only when the ER is powered and crewed

[brittle thorn]

er takes priority and disables supply prio for thrusters connected to it

basically doesn't allow you to supply them when it's there

[vagrant flume]

exactly

[brittle thorn]

that applies to all thrust, not really a bug i just think it isn't really good so maybe it should be removed

[pure juniper]

ohg that why the sound is horrible

[vagrant flume]

seems to be happeneing to normal thrusters as well. though only when the ER is powered and crewed

sound fixed

[velvet sluice]

What's the issue here? Part of the point of engine rooms is they allow you to fuel the engines by just fueling the engine room itself instead of individual engines. I don't see the issue

Is it that they disallow for individual engine powering?

[vagrant flume]

i want to fuel individual engines.

[vagrant flume]

yes

[velvet sluice]

Oh then don't use engine rooms I suppose

[vagrant flume]

:/

[velvet sluice]

You want both?

[vagrant flume]

yea?

thats like, the entire point of ERs

to be a better option for more cost

[velvet sluice]

I suppose with these new engines having both would be good in some cases but it might also defeat part of the point of the engine rooms

I've never found a use for individual engine powering while also using engine rooms before

[vagrant flume]

the point of engine rooms is the 50% benefit, the feeding is more or less a bonus

[vagrant flume]

thats why this was never discussed, there wasnt a point before but there is now.

[velvet sluice]

Let's see what Walt thinks then

Those poor engine room crewmates might get lonely without the constant fueling which is a big deal

[vagrant flume]

lol

of course im going to have a set of crew specific to the ERs so its actually powered but yea

Walt I see you have woken up, we require answers

[vagrant flume]

@stark gorge ?

[marble mauve]

pretty sure i reported this exact thing earlier

[vagrant flume]

seems so, only that its not a bug but an unnecessary feature

at least thats what i assume, Walt has yet to respond

[deft crow]

let him work, don't ping twice for the same thing

[carmine marsh]

Yea there's no need to ping the devs, especially in channels like this where they will get around to reading everything eventually

[sinful vapor]

Kind of the point of the thread after all.

[pure juniper]

doubt walt read everything but heavily agreed with jarjar

[brittle thorn]

same

[vagrant flume]

apologies

[stark gorge]

That's intentional and it's how all thrusters work. I'm open to changing it, though I don't currently see a reason why rockets should be different, and I'd prefer to keep all thrusters consistent.

[stark gorge]

I skim everything, though honestly pinging me for potentially-serious issues is generally fine as long as it's not abused.

[marble mauve]

useing large reactors and powering the rockets from the engine rooms is incredibly hard to sustain when you want the engine rooms for the boost
being able to power it from the outside while keeping the engine rooms for the boost alone is a much more workable solution, except this for some reason outright limits that so you cant do it
keep in mind that an engine room has to be touching 3 or more extenders to be worthwhile, too

[boreal swan]

why not allow for all thrusters? this way when the engine room is destroyed, crew can still power the thrust even if they are assigned

maybe change mouse color or have a small warning so noobs know that they can use engine room to power instead

[gilded quail]

i think just changing the component so it toggles automatic supply instead of removing it completely, plus allowing you to assign manually if you chose, yeah

[languid sand]

Why add a toggle? just allow crew to supply the thrust

[gilded quail]

i meant toggle as in the code

[supple pagoda]

I dunno, i still have that setup where ERs touch only 2 thrusters and there's almost no flicker
It just takes a crapload of LRs (1 per 2 ERs). They hardly even get drained, it's just so that the crew deliver the power fast enough.

If anything i think the fix would be crew taking up to 3 batteries per trip no matter where they took it from, like in that mod https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2892545365&searchtext=take+what+need
Same dude had made a mod so that weapons never target crew, which i understand is now the norm, so he might be onto something.

As for assigning thrust even with ER i also vote yes

[marble mauve]

the thing is we are putting ERs inbetween 2 rows of thrusters otherwise it isnt worthwhile in cost

[supple pagoda]

Well that's where I don't necessarily agree : that way minimizes space wasted/used and serves 2 rockets, that's a benefit and there should be a tradeoff (example: it implies crew bunks are at least 2 tiles away IIRC).
In my large setup, a gigantic amount of space and resources is dedicated to the thruster's full performance and it seems intentional that this is what's required to get the most out of them (#1201644365307727872 message)
Even though you can use the reactor's surplus power for everything else, it still seems a bit much honestly. Especially if you plan to add any sort of protection around the vital parts

[supple pagoda]

#1201644365307727872 message This one is more reasonable, in-between, and i heard it turns really badly but is fast. To me it makes different tradeoffs and gets a different outcome, which is nice
@plucky thunder does it have any thruster flickering issues?

[plucky thunder]

none

It has overkill firepower

give it only 6x4 launchers and you can probably make it decent

[supple pagoda]

Thanks for the tip, I'm rather focused on your thruster setup rn

[plucky thunder]

yeah, you would need better turn thrusters

Like a way to do a 180 in a few seconds

it goes 124m/s rn

wich is really fucking fast

and is under 250 command points

[supple pagoda]

Any reason why you didn't go for ERs?

Not that it's bad, it's just the current topic

[plucky thunder]

Price. I'm not sure ER are worth it on with only the MRS. I know they absolutely are if you put one on each and with other thrusters tho

[supple pagoda]

The price seems a consistent reason, thanks for your input

[plucky thunder]

If you replaced the command room with an ER you would have a verr very efficient ER

because you would basically have all the space for turn thrusters

[supple pagoda]

That's true, wonder if it will become the norm to have an ER at the front. Not doing it is kind of a wasted opportunity

[vagrant flume]

With the fact that ERs are only worth the cost when touching 3 or more extenders, we don’t have a method which allows us to use engine rooms alongside two MRS with the exception of a single medium reactor setup. I believe crew should prioritize fueling ERs but still be allowed to fuel each component if they are specifically ordered to

[supple pagoda]

One could argue the shape and size of ERs make them inadequate for rocket column shenanigans in the first place, since their whole idea is to maximize the amount of thrusters they touch but you can only put so much stuff between 2 long columns

Maybe a different shape of ER (line?) is desirable, maybe rockets are meant to be supported differently

[stark gorge]

It's tricky to code because allowing crew to deliver resources to different parts but that end up in effectively the same storage screws with the crew delivery AI. They end delivering too much power.

[supple pagoda]

Can't this be solved with crew management's priorities? : if allowed to be assigned to both, set priority of batteries to engine room much higher, then they'll only consider delivering to thrusters when ER is incapacitated

[dawn rune]

Large reactor setups with full ER use are viable and good too, they're just more difficult to set up. They're heavier and use more crew, but that's how MRs + huge thruster modules work anyway.

[vagrant flume]

No, otherwise I wouldn’t be complaining about it

[vagrant flume]

I would like to see what setups you are talking about

[vagrant flume]

Hmm, perhaps the ER could have a toggle which disables it from fueling connected thrusters? That seems like it should be the easiest way to circumvent this problem

[supple pagoda]

Well if crew can't be assigned to both ER and thruster right now, how could anyone have even tried that?

What I meant is if Walt makes it possible to assign to both, we might not have the over-delivery problem

[vagrant flume]

While MRS were in development it let us fuel both extenders and ER

[marble mauve]

you use to be able to do this, and one of my setups was completely workable with it, untill the crew's ability to supply it was removed.
now this ship isnt useable, they cant even supply the fuel pods

[supple pagoda]

Oh, makes sense now. I never noticed

[sinful vapor]

I would hope that is planned as an exploration shuttle cuz that seems like an awfully big investment for movement if there are plans for any armaments lol. So much crew to reach the insides and all the outsides and man all the ERs! That is what, 84 crew per side? Argh, the campaign costs!

[stark gorge]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

[vagrant flume]

Sounds good

[dawn rune]

I think Luna posted a bunch of other LR setups in this channel earlier.

Layouts like these work well, and they could surely be optimized further. 4ER floats a lot of power you can use for other things. 6 ER doesn't fully sustain because the reactor redlines, but the MR module is like that too. If you're not building for career or making an ultralight, LRs should be superior.

[vagrant flume]

Hmm so short setups

Well we are getting the ability to turn off the auto fuel so we should be fine now

[vagrant flume]

I’ll test later to see if that properly sustains or not

And yea Luna has posted LR designs that work but that was when we could still fuel individual extenders

[dawn rune]

You can just stack them on top of each other if you want longer setups.

[vagrant flume]

You won’t get sustain with longer setups

I’m using 1 LR per 2 MRS with 3 ERs, sustain is not viable

Response time is simply too slow when it’s ramped up

[dawn rune]

I'm running this at full blast at x8 and it sustains fine.

Can't imagine why you'd ever want to go that long for PvP, though.

[vagrant flume]

Christ 72 crew per module

Mind sending me a clip? I want to see how close the extenders get to flickering

[dawn rune]

Actually got a couple short flickers with that, but that's after a minute or so on x8 with them auto-fired. You could probably cut crew if you're piloting it manually.

[vagrant flume]

I see

[dawn rune]

the 6 ER module shrunken down to 4 ERs is better if you want to cut down on crew, but it's harder to use the reactor for other things.

[vagrant flume]

Yea, the module is also quite a weird shape so it would be hard to implement into a normal ship

[dawn rune]

If you're using the 1-sided one it's pretty easy to just move the reactor up and power shields with it, or add a walkway to the other side for missiles/normal thrust modules/anything else.

[vagrant flume]

Still, allowing us to fuel each extender gives us a much larger range of applications

Like the LR could be on top, two reactors could properly support one module

I’ll have to experiment more with it though

[placid thorn]

I feel like these are going to make reverse thrust rail guns stronger. Rail guns want a thin long ship with lots of power. Thrusters want that too. So you'll get sniped by a pencil at max range and be powerless to stop it.

[vivid stratus]

Has anyone had luck just deleting doors to thrusters/pods to improve ER efficiency

[supple pagoda]

There's gameplay here... If it's a pencil, 1 or 2 flaks will destroy all bullets. If it's larger, it's slower because railguns weigh a crapton (36 tonnes for 6 tiles) so you can catch up. There's hiding behind shields or asteroids too, and if you leave their range they're forced to make a move forward
The ring of death takes care of the rest

[vagrant flume]

Either way rail kites are gonna be a heck of a lot more annoying

[placid thorn]

I am an amateur player, but it's a little lame that my ship needs a hard counter for a rail gun pencil just to survive. Rail gun pencils aren't terribly creative and they can blow up ships without hard counters without a scratch.

I like the idea of modular engines, but I think they either need a length limit or should get wider over time somehow. Like maybe they could have an ion beam-like mechanic where you need to combine modules in a tree-like structure. Make it so boosters need to be fed from the sides by two other boosters.

[marble mauve]

im not sure if i like that idea

if the issue is with rails, maybe have the rocket engine's exaust effect and push projectiles infront of it out of track as its firing

[void summit]

are these more cost efficient?

[dawn rune]

Probably? Luna did the math with her modules and I think LRs came out ahead there, though you're likely still better off with MRs if you're building an ultralight.

You'd need at least two mediums per large if you replaced them. The larges float power but the mediums redline, so you'd need even more reactors if anything else on your ship needs power.

[vagrant flume]

I don’t see how modular engines would make rail fans smaller? Or do you mean rail traps?

[vagrant flume]

Rail fans get countered by many things these days

Mainly ULs and ION rammers

Both of which will benefit further from MRS

[languid sand]

They meant railkites

[brittle thorn]

tbh not even those will get better with mrs, overall i just think rails won't use mrs just because of its space and low turning thrust

[languid sand]

I made a prototype that goes 130. There is no way we wont see a good railkite build

[brittle thorn]

130 is slow though, not nearly fast enough

and the issue here isn't speed anyways

turning speed is a big problem unless you dump more money into thrust

[boreal violet]

i mean

from what ive noticed the turning speed isnt actually that bad

my railkite i made with them worked "fine"

its more than broken now due to the thruster being updated ofc

[languid sand]

Normally railkites go under 110. 130 is insane. And the turning isnt an issue.

[brittle thorn]

you can't fan accurately if it takes you 5 years to move to the left

even then you'll have to dive and return with high ramp up

at best you be weak to railfans but moderately good against other stuff

[arctic bridge]

i know the graphis are placeholder but tare the sizes demonstrated static?

[rancid heart]

can u please do something against the ugly stretched particles ? :V

[sinful vapor]

The Nozzles size was edjusted a couple times in testing, so unless they feel like something more needs testing I imagine module sizes will stay as-is.

So, we all know the ER cluster next to 2 rockets is pretty strong, hitting essentially 5 Huge Thrusters facing the same direction. Has anyone tried having an ER at the top and bottom, between 2 rockets, each hitting 5 things? This would basically mean an internal Huge Thruster at the top between the 2 Rockets.

I wonder how well that would work.

[plucky thunder]

People have I think

[boreal violet]

most people seem to agree that in its current state the size is good too

[boreal violet]

can attest it works pretty good

[sinful vapor]

Yeah, imagine how silly things would get if Extenders were just 1 space tall. So many next to ERs lmao. Instant rebalance needed.

[boreal violet]

yea lmao

even the rocket thrusters being shorter had that issue

thats why theyre this long now

though im happy they dont work with traditional er clusters

this will make ships look alot different and maybe be more fun?

[sinful vapor]

Definitely. I have a number of ideas once it hits stable.

[maiden shell]

crew waste a ton of power on this ship, just fly in one direction and observe them

my guess is that one crew wants to power one fuel pod and another crew the fuel pod on the other side, but when the first crew gets there they refill everything so the second crew eats their battery

[plucky thunder]

2 fuel pods 1 extender : 10 energy capacity

Reactor size : Medium

You can have up to 5 crew per segment. If the segment lacks 3 batteries, 2 crew will recharge it

[maiden shell]

I know how energy logistics work, this is just a quick civilian ship prototype so I don't care about optimization too much

but the crew keep taking batteries and wasting them, making the reactor run out of power

when they only need like half of the energy

[plucky thunder]

Let me see

Try now

I kinda understand where the problem came from

@maiden shell

Both pods use 1 battery. Both are marked as needing two because of the ER like mechanic

[maiden shell]

it's a civilian ship, it can't have crew roles or assignments because of crew hiring

plus new players usually don't touch crew assignments

[plucky thunder]

okay, remove crew assignments, should still work

[maiden shell]

doing weird stuff just to make something work as intended is not a good idea

[plucky thunder]

This one should work

I just removed some doors

:3

[maiden shell]

hmm I get where you're coming from and I think I could do something with energy supply lines but it's still not ideal

[plucky thunder]

Last one works without flicker

[maiden shell]

crew eating energy should be very rare

and only happen when a part is destroyed that blocks the crew from their destination one way or another

the crew should treat the segments as one segment instead of three parts and know when batteries are being supplied to one of the three parts

[unreal verge]

Players when they discover that a vertical based gun goes well with a vertical based movement option:

[novel notch]

Thats a really nice looking ship, though im noticing a distinct lack of armor and sheilds

[plucky thunder]

It's not mine

[novel notch]

oh

[plucky thunder]

#ships message

[arctic bridge]

is there a different between the engine room touching the extender and the engine room touching the fuelpod?

[sinful vapor]

I believe Fuel pods don't count as getting the ER boost.

[arctic bridge]

i see

so its just engine rooms to feed fuel in that instance

got it

[stark gorge]

@everyone I lied about that being the last preview build. There's a new preview build live that adds a toggle to turn off engine room power distribution.

[gilded quail]

🔥

[short fable]

oh cool

[vagrant flume]

Nice

[thick sandal]

How dare Walt Cosmoteer himself bring untruth unto thee?!

[gilded quail]

Walt "Cosmoteer Coolguy" Destler LIED

[cerulean fiber]

What’s motivating the additional toggle?

[vagrant flume]

We had a discussion about it before, this change allows us to manually fuel individual extenders while being able to gain the 50% benefit from ERs

And we want to fuel individual extenders because it’s far easier to sustain than fueling the ERs, much better response time

[cerulean fiber]

Because of the higher net battery capacity or because logistics (shorter distance between doorway to deposit)?

[vagrant flume]

Logistics

[tawny smelt]

Thx for bringing this to Walt's attention.

[steel vault]

the thrust in direct control seems to overreact when you turn and turn the opposite direction a little when you turn

..turns out I had mouse control on

I'll see if what I said was right

[languid sand]

I was finally able to remake the first ship I ever brought to a tournament

[brittle thorn]

thanks i hate it

thankfully it is very railfannable

[languid sand]

how can you hate this?

such a fun meme ship

[brittle thorn]

it's ultralight and i hate that. my resentment towards speed and ul will never diminsh, blah blah i don't like uls

[plucky thunder]

nice

[boreal violet]

Ultralights make for good snacks though you should like them :3

[vagrant flume]

ULs are a lot of fun, even more so now with the modular thrust

[foggy grove]

diagonal thrusters when?

[sullen merlin]

I think these should be renamed to modular thruster system (M.T.S)

[unreal verge]

"Sistema de Propulsores Modulares" SPM, we did it lads, we got SPM from Factorio on Cosmoteer

[gilded quail]

its so over for brazil

[boreal swan]

mre :3

[foggy grove]

since we're getting new thrusters can we get like fuelpod sized engine rooms for smaller ships/engine clusters?

[brittle thorn]

meal ready to eat??

[supple pagoda]

it's in the workshop

[foggy grove]

and what? break my saves when the mod stops working cuz modder stops supporting all of a sudden for random reason? Nah, I'm asking for one in the base game

[boreal swan]

why have diagonal thrust

[foggy grove]

why not?

it's not like it'll suddenly make diagonal ships OP just cuz the diagonal engine clusters are slightly more efficient now

[boreal swan]

because if there is no good reason to add it, it should not be added

[carmine marsh]

Walt has said that he's not a huge fan of the idea as diagonal ships already have the advantage of having more weapons over a smaller surface area thus creating a natural balance between fire power and speed

I'll try to find his exact post

#general message

[brittle thorn]

tbf they're already thruster efficient just in terms of maneuverability and being able to use all available thrust

[foggy grove]

the same can be said with these modular thrusters, everything's already an arbitrary decision anyway. Why limit our options for more content?

[foggy grove]

when's the last time a diagonal ship won a tournament? It's also kinda dated tbh

[boreal swan]

modular thrust has a distinct niche (long instead of wide thrust)

[boreal swan]

uhh the one i was in, diagonal got 2nd but they got hard countered in the finals

[foggy grove]

so it didn't win, got it

[sinful vapor]

Tbf, diagonal ships are optional rather than default. Not as common to be seen.

[supple pagoda]

wait how you do you hard-counter diagonal design?

[foggy grove]

depends on the form they take but it's either very easy to split down the center or get flanked

[supple pagoda]

for ions i guess i can see what you mean, nukers much less

[boreal swan]

all of their designs could not win against tb wall so i just kept using this style ship

[boreal swan]

no, i took a stupid gimmicky ship and i happened to get into the finals

would've won against most other ships (and against a non-tb wall)

[foggy grove]

so diagonally ships haven't won tournaments in ages despite the weapon density advantage. It's like there's some other determining factor to ship design besides weapons...like thrusters

🤣

[supple pagoda]

haven't seen that one before

[sinful vapor]

Speaking of which, has anyone done testing with MRS on diagonal ships? Not sure how well that would work. It saves exterior space but doesn't pair well with thruster overlap options for diagonal ships.

[boreal swan]

?? this wins from tb

that tourney was based around forced weapon choice, and tb is not a weapon

so i wanted to use the same style of ship that did not depend on weapons but had the same matchups

this tb wall design has almost the same matchups no matter the armament

so, i just had to find one ship in the other person's roster that could not handle tb, and only fight that

anything with ht (diagonals included) that is not a kite will struggle against tb

so i just won because of the diagonal's thrust choice

if it were a linear ship, it would've been an easier match

[dawn rune]

Nick won a tournament a few months ago with a diagonal missile barge.

[boreal swan]

o that too

that wouldn't even work w/ diagonal thrust

[foggy grove]

it works fine , it does get tricky once you go past like 3 extensions unless you want your engine clusters to stick out too far

also, the geometric penalty for thrusters in diags

[boreal swan]

might actually have interesting application w/ some ion/chaingun/cannon builds

since it's so cost efficient

now u can have the perk of diagonal without the malus (cost inefficient forwards thrust)

[foggy grove]

its still there, just a lot less noticeable cuz you can basically just add an extension

[foggy grove]

oh yeah, forgot that one

[vagrant flume]

Modular thrust would definitely be worse on diag ships but probably usable

[boreal violet]

i imagine for turning big diag ships itd be nice

but i doubt thatll be its main use

[cold crypt]

I'm just glad that I'll finally be able to drive big tall ships without sacrificing 90% of the horizontal surface area to thrusters and awkward engine blocks

[sinful vapor]

Yeah, I wanted to build longer ships a lot of the time but they just end up very ugly or very slow, since if you want a long ship, you also needed wide thruster setups in the back in some way, and that created a lot of empty internal space you try and fill logically and it turns into a mess with poor design, ultimately.

[boreal swan]

still prboably going to happen w/ noob ships but in a different way

[sinful vapor]

Can't imagine that being the case when so much thrust can be put in a stack now. Large, long ships will be able to be much slimmer.

[boreal swan]

having a shape that fits better w/ the ship will not magically make a logistically challenging part less logistically challenging

[foggy grove]

but it does fit better which is the starship architect part of the game

[little solar]

Make composite ships with a booster tail and a diagonal head

fly them in a formation with self collisions disabled

[distant plaza]

im so happy this is getting added because it might actually legitimize gargantuan ships

[valid fulcrum]

I speak mandarin so your name is 100% more funny to me lmfao

[thick sandal]

@distant plaza = ???

[cold crypt]

I speak mandarin and I don't get it

[lone grotto]

Any idea when this could launch to live version? Looking at the buff changes especially

[sinful vapor]

Whenever they have the visuals finished. I think that is all we are waiting for atm. When that will be is anyone's guess.

[golden mauve]

Missile range extender?

[vagrant flume]

I agree

It doesn’t overlap with medium reactors as well

[toxic meadow]

Meal ready to eat?

[boreal swan]

modular rocket engine

[brittle thorn]

meal ready to eat samthing

[dire fox]

meals rarely eaten, is another slang for mre

[brittle thorn]

tbh i started to agree that mrs is just worse than mts

MTS is more unique and doesn't overlap with something also used in thrust

[plucky thunder]

MTS

Monster Truck Supper ?

Molten Titanium Surger ?

I dunno, MRS is quite good

Plus, it really looks like a rocket

[supple pagoda]

and that's lovely

[boreal swan]

mm yes the 2mrs 3mr ul will be so readable

[plucky thunder]

I dunno I have no trouble with it

[dire fox]

vtc? variebul thrust configeration?

[thick sandal]

PPP? Promjenjiv Položaj Pogona?

[brittle thorn]

modular thrust system

[stark gorge]

Correct.

[valid fulcrum]

Basically, if you twist it slightly, it actually seems like he f#cked 92 people till they died. He changed his name it seems like, or school was so stressful it made me hallucinat

[thick sandal]

@dire fox be bilingual.

[dire fox]

can't, i only speak english, and im bad at that too

[fast bane]

skill issue

[frail pagoda]

Skill Issue

[silk sun]

simply learn to speak english

[golden mauve]

Just for the sake of curiousity what other language do you know Erin?

[modern mountain]

Before this goes any further, #off-topic

[little mountain]

slightly (very) OP right now - maybe kill buff from all extenders above one that fails, and some extra diminishing returns like on the railgun?
Also maybe some extra buffs to the fuel pod? All they do is kill potential engine room space and add mass to the ship - I like the added incentive for point defence at the back (thanks to the 1-wide nature), but I've found that the right crew and power layouts always beats the things; in price, speed and space. It was pretty cool to see 200+ m/s though. This'll make giant, terrifying contiguous ships way less impractical.

[marble mauve]

i do not like first idea at all, it would supernerf ships useing it that flicker and hurt noobs a lot, requireing that they have to be built "perfectly" to work

[boreal violet]

theyre pretty much finished

i dont think the general idea is that they are op

all thats left is spritework

[boreal violet]

there are setups you can use with fuelpods and engine rooms together to buff the entire setup

its down to how clever you are with placement ofc

[vagrant flume]

I think it’s balanced, it’s significantly harder to sustain but more compact

And gives more total thrust at the cost of constantly unbalanced thrust

…also very vulnerable to damage

[boreal violet]

the dmg vaulnerability id actually complain about

but the general consensus is that these thrusters are balanced

so if its not an issue its not an issue

ntm i can also just be ass at gaurding them with internal armor and sheild setups too

[arctic bridge]

query

if the thrusers are damaged at any point do they explode like rails or just lose a bit?

[modern mountain]

There's no chain reaction

[unique grail]

Is there an adhd explanation of the chain thrusters

[abstract turtle]

it connect and go fast when powered!1!!

[modern mountain]

It boils down to:

• MRS nozzle: similar to huge thrusters but more expensive and the only thruster compatible with the extenders and fuels pods
• Extender: each one you add will increase the maximum thrust, power usage and ramp up.
• Fuel pods: increases the battery capacity of a nozzle or extender as they are very power hungry
  Last time I checked, the optimal layout was a mix of medium reactors with extenders and a nozzle. See image below
  #1201644365307727872 message

[thick sandal]

that's called a "tldr"

[unique grail]

Thank you pookie 😇

[supple pagoda]

the optimal layout thing is debatable though

[brittle thorn]

iirc luna said the optimal layout is with lr not mr

mr is for weight

[languid sand]

depends on ship weight

mr for ul lr for heavier ships

[brittle thorn]

exactly

[deft crow]

yes

[stark gorge]

@everyone If you're not aware, the MRS is now in Release Candidate phase! #1213242988642304001

[cerulean fiber]

exciting!

[pseudo kelp]

Peak

[rancid heart]

nice :D

[vagrant flume]

nice

[supple pagoda]

Do we still post the feedback about MRS here, or elsewhere now?

[languid sand]

I think here https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1213242988642304001

[golden mauve]

Awesome!

Greatest patch note of all time.

[golden mauve]

---

Hey, why does this not work?

I think it should have a similar functionality as chainguns do.

[abstract turtle]

i have legitemately no idea

[supple pagoda]

that's arbitrary, but a reason that makes sense is, when properly placed, the walkable paths are aligned (the "bridge" over the thruster).
The other way, they wouldn't be
All i can think of

[golden mauve]

Yeah but individually they can still have doors.

It'd make arrangements like this possible which'd be really handy.

Also why aren't the thruster capacitors fully modular?

[junior harbor]

wdym fully

[supple pagoda]

Maybe? I have no power over this. Best I can do is make you a mod when it's released but I doubt that's what you want

why not move the right column 1 square down? still 2 boosts, but that northeastern capacitor would connect

[golden mauve]

You can only have two per nozzle/accelerator.

Not like having a dozen of them would be overpowered, it'd be expensive not to mention very bulky and hard to incorporate on builds.

All it'd do is make gigantic ships more fun.

[supple pagoda]

I meant like this ? that's no more than 2 per nozzle?

[golden mauve]

Oh right, but I really wanted to have the ER touch the thruster itself to keep it fuelled.

Actually, if the engine room can fuel the individual parts, I don't think there's even a need for those battery multiplicator thingamajigs.

[abstract turtle]

OH THATS A BRIDGE??? makes so much sense now

[golden mauve]

Could we please make the thruster trail smaller? It being larger than the entire grid is a bit insane.

Totally not salty because I can't build any locking ships with it

[supple pagoda]

well i call it that since i saw the crew walk over it

nothing official

[abstract turtle]

i had no idea what it was

supposed to resemble

[gray matrix]

None of the 4 new ships have point defense?

[golden mauve]

Yeah, I don't see the issue with that.

[abstract turtle]

do they need to have point defense?

[supple pagoda]

i like the consistency they bring, but for maximum optimization i suppose that's true

[golden mauve]

Sure I guess, modular thruster is infinitely modular already, to have the modular pieces themselves have infinitely modular modules would be a bit insane.

[junior harbor]

they can at least give a buffer for the crew to get there when the thruster is turned on

[thick sandal]

howd you round the corners

[golden mauve]

It's literally an MS paint object.

[thick sandal]

no way

rectangle with rounded corners

[thick sandal]

no fucking way

im so blind

the only ones I use are line, oval, rectangle

[abstract turtle]

whats ms paint

[thick sandal]

best paint app ever

much better than paint 3d especially

[abstract turtle]

i have paint.net 😭

worst paint app ever

[thick sandal]

yes

[sullen merlin]

agreed, if this doesn't change you could use some maneuvering thrusters and some of the stuff from the two player locking ships

[supple pagoda]

As long as thruster plumes don't deal damage, there will be solutions to ignore exclusion zones

[abstract turtle]

how do i make locking ships??

[thick sandal]

Firstly, #game-questions.
Secondly, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RhFiu5-lfKedpUeyi07hK40Y3ejlDXB9OI_4tU8edgU/edit#heading=h.994s50e98g20.

[abstract turtle]

we were literally fucking talking about paint softwares here

[thick sandal]

yeah because it was a relevant chain of thought

[lone grotto]

gotta say MRS looks way better outside than inside...

tho, this transition from on the nozzle itself looks kinda bottlenecked on second look idk what i meant / internal looks : external looks dont match.

[supple pagoda]

i dunno, seems i can at least identify where the bridge is from this outside view

[supple pagoda]

yeah that's not a perfect match

[lone grotto]

also finally the good 'ol tilted plume sprite is shinning thru xd? whats that? permanent part orientation bound sun storms?

clearly visible ----

[supple pagoda]

i always use blueprint mode, must be why i wasn't noticing up to now, the overlap with exclusion zone makes it clear

[lone grotto]

u also dont live in the particles folders soooo XD

[plucky thunder]

Make a lock using rotation

[golden mauve]

Not rotation, but strafing is a consideration of mine.

Rotation too finnicky.

I get it so is strafing, but it sounds more consistent in my mind at least.

[modern mountain]

Sure we can, spawn both halves as two separate ships 😄

[golden mauve]

Ooo true.

But I like to keep it a single package.

...For those niche cases when you can only bring one ship.

Also locking like this takes longer and is more finnicky, plus you can't grab any other ships on top or the arrangements will mess it up.

Keeping halves is way more effective than strafe-locking, still.

[cinder maple]

Hmm

Yeah that’s unfortunate

I can’t think of any way to make regular locking work with it

[golden mauve]

Could maybe the MRS nozzle be bigger, like 2 or 3 tiles? Such a bulky and massive contraption having a nozzle this small makes little sense and it'd improve both the aesthetics and internal consistency of the module a lot (Just like how booster is a modified version of large thruster with bigger nozzle, I'm pretty sure MRS is a modified huge thruster, so it'd make more sense).

[supple pagoda]

the exclusion zone is already wide like it's larger anyway

[deft crow]

we have a new thread for the release candidate