#More slots for ships in multiplayer

175 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sonic mirage
#

Too laggy

dim condor
analog plinth
#

Host option with a number selection:

Number of Selectable Ships
1-10

sonic mirage
# sonic mirage Too laggy

For example, Blazing Excalibur on occasion hosts lobbies, and in the past for a very consistent quantity of time, before he upgraded his network, The lobbies would crash on start from the players within it just having more than 1 ship each, and players had to conform to just having 1 ship each

analog plinth
#

twas just an example, not meant to be the limit

#

however, manually typing in the limit would make ui configuration kind of a pain, hence the number 10. Anything more seems annoying to work with, and if you want more than that you might as well enable ship switching

#

especially considering all these slots show up in game, cluttering up the screen and adding unneeded fluff to the whole ui

#

nope, not that, typing it in is what i meant

#

what do you mean by credits per player/team? as in income? or starting money?

#

ah ye

#

okay, i understand now

#

makes sense

#

though if the limit is high and someone selects 15 different ships thats going to be some serious clutter. Maybe a screen that stores selected ships you can pull up to warp in new ones?

#

true

sonic mirage
#

Add 100 rows and make it impossible for the enemy team to see what your ship actually is, could be a morbiter, could also be an ion rammer

sonic mirage
#

0 cost asteroids

#

You get to have Infinite asteroids

dim condor
#

yes

sonic mirage
#

Technically yes, optionally you can just make 15k costing max length ships, and because ships do not spawn in a circle radius around a ship from the 2 longest points, you can technically have ships that will spawn in the rod

#

On that note, how will more ships be spawned?

#

Currently ships have a set way to spawn, for example using a bigger than vanilla ship, it still sticks to the same " ship grid" as if it were smaller, the grid just expands for the ship

#

More ships, also means asteroids will have to probably spawn different as to not displace the spawning of said ships

#

Which, if you have 100 max vanilla grid structure boxes, could be very strange for the ships and asteroids alike to be spawned

#

In domination, when you spawn the structure boxes, spawn enough and they can potentially spawn inside the enemy spawner

#

Because there isn't enough space elsewhere

#

And they spawn closest to the centre of your own spawn

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

Normally as in?

dim condor
#

what changes with more ship slots?

sonic mirage
#

where does my 100th max vanilla grid ship spawn after the 99th?

dim condor
#

ah I thought youre talking about dom

sonic mirage
#

I used domination as an example to show that spawning gets weird after a certain number of ships

dim condor
#

It should probably be a dom option only anayways

sonic mirage
#

And in elim, it will be even weirder, since the artem said elimination

#

In elimination, I assume ships spawn before asteroids,

dim condor
#

^^

#

That way it wouldnt cause issues for elim

sonic mirage
#

You can already swap out ships in domination though? It changes pretty little for it

#

Other than filling more of the screen

dim condor
#

but thats a ton of micro

#

having to do it just once per game is a big deal

sonic mirage
#

It's 2 button presses, to select the slot to change, then the ship itself

#

I do it all the time

#

I even start with 4m costing ships and change them out for usable ones

dim condor
#

not to mention how inconvinient it is

sonic mirage
#

Depending on income, it's going to take like 5-6 seconds, and you aren't constantly swapping out as you say

#

Also depends on your library and what you are swapping for

#

Could take 2 seconds

#

Also, if we are just going to be able to select all our ships, at that point just have the creative ship library tab that floats on the screen with the scroll bar, and select all of them there

#

Saves more time than spending 6 minutes every start of a lobby selecting half your library

#

Ah yes, my 50th+ max grid ship will end up spawning In the ring of death as all ships should

#

And then the 50 ships spawned there of my 100 ships, will all take that Random generated burn damage causing enough lag to kill my opponents router and win me the game

#

Lag will be for all players, and rod causes a lot of it

#

An illegal 600k structure box can cause enough lag in ring of death to kill almost any match

#

2 things take some performance, rod damage and crew pathing

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

Usually it's not an issue as ships aren't always in the rod, but at the end of a timer with like 3 or 4 elimination ships and you really feel the lag

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

If rod settings are made to accommodate the amount of ships in a match, then there's no point to Ring of death settings

#

Also meaning less ships has smaller rod always

dim condor
#

Your talking about a niche scenario that will probably never be reached

sonic mirage
#

because usually no one spawns more than 1 ship

#

And charges are completely fine

#

It is a whole 1000 tax / ship

dim condor
#

ships dont take up that much space

sonic mirage
#

Max grid structure boxes

#

It's like 15k cost each

dim condor
dim condor
sonic mirage
#

You get 100 of those

#

In standard elimination

dim condor
#

and whats the point?

#

having no ships left

sonic mirage
#

Testing the limits of the game and causing insufferable lag

#

They each have a 10k cost cr

#

You will be technically alive for the next 2 minutes of lagging gameplay

dim condor
#

and there are much better ways to do it at that

sonic mirage
#

This would be Another way of lagging

dim condor
#

so what?

#

just ban the player

sonic mirage
#

More ways to lag a game < less ways to lag a game

dim condor
#

like with all the other lagmachines

sonic mirage
#

It's a method of lagging that doesn't need anything more than spawning in ships

#

Shrink speed is based on timer

#

If it is more far away with the same timer, it moves faster to reach the centre at the same time as if the rod was closer

dim condor
#

as long as there is one way

sonic mirage
#

More ways to lag = more work to reduce the amount of ways to lag to 0

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

Technically you are still limited to grid size and budget

#

Only allowed 5 max grid structure boxes at the moment

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

We don't count illegal, we are here for vanilla regular grid stuff here, also no modded stuff either

#

Still able to have 100 of them

#

They are very cheap

dim condor
sonic mirage
#

It's basically a declaration that you are doing absurdist ships that are not representative of the average regular vanilla ship

sonic mirage
sonic mirage
#

Usually there aren't enough ships for too much lag

#

So lag stays more minimal

#

Structure though, is very cheap, and can be spread over a large area, and rod deals damage to structures

#

Random damage, to random parts at random times/ tick

#

But is there even a good enough reason to Add it in the first place

#

I only really see it being used for 2 reasons, lagging, or big budget games where players have something like 60 million credits of budget

#

Both coincidentally come with lag

#

Traps use 2 slots, swarms are never PvP viable

#

And drones will even be replacing swarms

#

Being basically just the better swarm

#

They just suffer from a severe lack of What I call " big ships of economy", where you pay more for basically needs like reactors or ammo, or thrusters, crew and Cr's, that are usually cheaper on bigger ships, being the singular or dual Cr's, or the 1-4 reactors on a not avoider ship

#

Tb, and speed completely make swarms less useful because they are often cheapened for more of the swarm

#

TBs can stop any ship at a weakpoint because they are too small to not get pushed, and speed makes no flanking

#

Traps are big enough that something like a railtrap can still hit a weakpoint even if touched by tb, as they usually have enough to still get a hit in

#

But take a lot of micro

#

Smaller ships also require more management else they are sitting there doing basically nothing

#

And generally have worse weaponry that cannot take full advantage of enemy weakpoints because it is spread very thin

#

Squibs are able to do stuff because there's also the big main ship, and it's just management of two ships

#

Because swarms are usually never used because most orbiters with an open back are too fast, and kill the swarm fast

#

Those Ul nukes orbiters go around 160 m/s

#

Depending on the ship itself of course

#

And a big weakpoint of most swarms is often an engagement goes to where the enemy ship just pushes them around and ends up with all of them bunched up in a circle while they die one by one

#

Rails = expensive

#

A regular railfan crushes them like wet paper

#

Like 1 layer of back defense armour and a swarm is completely nullified

#

More expensive= less swarm amount, + weak defense + weak damage, + generally slower,

#

With like 120 m/s speed it gets hit like twice a match

#

Try managing a swarm while my morbiter is going around asteroids hitting your ships with missiles and ramming your ships into dust

#

Not really,

#

Swarms were at their peak in classic, and even then were very mid and relied on opponents Messing up

#

Expensive+ because of isn't in a full line it stops less missiles

#
  • flak isn't really an anti missile thing and definitely not a swarm anti missile thing
#

Flak has decent enough offense for ram engagements

#

Usually cannons are used instead for walls as they are less costly and take less space

#

1 layer of armour and the swarm is finished

#

Avoiders are also one of the Biggest swarm counters because it's the archetype with the best omnidirectional mobility and can just always have it facing the swarm while circling

#

Stops small rails like swarm ones

#

And then because rails are flimsy they die fast

#

Also harder to actually aim a swarm of rails because it is a swarm

#

On paper sounds " eh" in reality terrible idea with flak

#

You simply cannot surround an avoider

#

They are really fast and because swarms are basically just mini orbiters, with weak side and potentially back thrust, they are circled very easily

#

Like the second a ship goes to the side area of an avoider they can just tilt their ship, and use the Z- key

#

A constantly moving avoider

#

Your swarm cannot keep up with the avoider and if you try attacking from multiple angles they can always go backwards, then sidewards and all that work going around to try hit from multiple places is made useless

#

I've seen avoider Vs swarm many times, the avoider always wins

#

Think of the match up like this, the swarm is a regular no tb non- orbiter railfan, and the avoider is a 10 er Ion rammer

#

Avoiders are very mobile, if you have swarmed them it's likely a big skill issue on the avoiders part

#

Like when a railkite completely gets stuck on a rock

#

Don't forget the swarm also gets attacked and killed by the avoider

#

With the pretty good anti swarm weapons like dlb's and Eb's

#

Dlb's are fast, precise and 20 of them crush the little defense a swarm ship can afford

#

Remember that a swarm ship needs a minimum of 35k for reactor and cr

#

You don't really get much left over money for defense and offense,

#

If you aren't having much for either you get crushed pretty fast

#

2 rail shots each/ ship

#

An 8 rail, railfan kills 4 each volley

#

Have I?

#

Probably

#

I made one, haven't used it since the tournament I made it for, which was around the release of modern

#

Sure

#

Although I'll likely have to design a new one since the logistics on that one avoider is probably quite terrible

#

I'm also much more of a railfan, ion rammer kind of guy, so I'm not guaranteed to be as good as the whole 4 avoider players out there

#

Never seen that ship before

ebon lion
#

Also, for the record, i love u

#

come and fight pvp

hushed notch
ebon lion
#

Isn't adding more slots options a simple thing? no point arguing about swarms effectiveness. Is there some issue with having options of 10, 20, 30 slots?

ebon lion
sonic mirage
hushed notch
ebon lion
granite tree
#

Just wanted to duck in and say I strongly agree with this