more modular weapons

[obsidian kraken]

I think modular weapons are cool and add more to the game so why not add more? There could be a modular cannon where you can add barrel parts, reloading parts, and maybe even the bigger it gets it needs a large gun plotting center to add balance
other variants of modular weapons could work too

it would have similar properties to deck cannon where it could stun crew and whatnot

[quasi cosmos]

The only modular weapon that we have in game is very straight forward and require no brain to make good use of, so how could you make this idea an interesant gimmick that isn't just "bigger gun goes bigger boom"?

[obsidian kraken]

creating custom weapons that allow for different playstyles and creativity

ideally using a more complicated system than the railgun

the normal non modular weapons get a bit boring

they are all sort of the same thing

blaster bigger blaster

missile bigger missile

cannon bigger cannon even bigger cannon

it could also have different ammo types maybe to make using it more appealing

[normal tree]

To avoid bigger gun goes bigger boom here are my ideas:

• different magazines allow for different firing speeds the faster the fire rate the lower the damage, maybe some allow to chain multiple shots so that the gun can fire 3 - 6 shots in quick succession before it needs restocking
• different barrel lengths - longer barrel more accurate and more range but slower turning
• different ammo types like, explosive (bigger boom), heavy (more pierce, no boom), light (extremely accurate, long range and fast projectile but low damage), fiery (starts fires in a 3x3area), standard (ammo like it currently is)
• motor strength - affects aiming speed and energy consumption, faster turning more energy, slower turning less energy

[quasi cosmos]

Good enough ig

[obsidian kraken]

yeah thats really good

exactly how i think

the different module you add it changes it starts

stats

[elfin hemlock]

and how will this be implimented, especially the ' barrel ' thing, considering the only real modular weapon the railgun doesn't turn

[wintry dock]

ions are a modular weapon

[icy portal]

maybe something like a circuit editor, depending on what you put in it, you could get a different result, faster firerate at the cost of damage or accuracy, a beam, double barrel, spread shot, ect

and maybe chance the look of the gun based on whats in it

spread laser canon could have a diamond at the end with 3 points instead of 1

it could be paired with a beam module at the cost of damage, or range. both? with the adition of very fast firerate

[elfin hemlock]

Then that isn't modular, that's just a gun with a menu screen

[ocean token]

hmm

that but its actual parts you build as a part of your ship

[zenith nimbus]

Actualy needing a motor is a good idea

Smth that would require a decent amount of upkeep in exchange for size

[elfin hemlock]

It's still basically a cannon, that you exchange some statistics for other statistics

At that, a cannon likely bigger than lc's

[zenith nimbus]

Yeah the goal is to make it not a railgun on a turret

[elfin hemlock]

Instead you just make it a cannon, on a turret with a 'customise' Menu

[zenith nimbus]

Yes, thats the issue were tryna fix by thinking of a workaround

[elfin hemlock]

You cannot exactly build a barrel, if it rotates

And how would motor strength be decided outside a menu

The same for the ammunition without having Walt create each one separate to the ammo we already have, which would only be used on this module

[quasi cosmos]

Almost a modular weapon

[obsidian kraken]

so what if building the cannon was like building another ship on the deck of the actual ship

you could have certain modules under the cannon and inside it

like the barrels and magazines

[runic wind]

Im not against this, but making things more complicated will punish newer players who arent really sure what they are doing.

[quasi cosmos]

^^

[blazing cipher]

Having a second layer of the ship that acts as a space to manage all your weapon components sounds cool but would be hard to implement and punish new players

[quasi cosmos]

very hard indeed

there's no space to implement it without absolutely destroying what has been made up to this point

[elfin hemlock]

I recall somewhere that it is logistically impossible to add a second build layer over the build layer as a second layer

[obsidian kraken]

so whats a small learning curve for new players? theres other weapons to use that isnt a modular cannon. you could just make regular blasters

[elfin hemlock]

You haven't seen the horrors new players had made in cosmoteer in the past

[obsidian kraken]

they can still learn

[wintry dock]

they're modular

made of multiple parts

able to be put together in multiple ways to achieve different results

[quasi cosmos]

They are only one part that can improve their capabilities by using more than one, just as any other weapon in the game, does it count as a modular weapon if you use disruptors and small lasers?

[runic wind]

Theres already a decently big learning curve for Cosmoteer ( I would know, ive brought two players into this game and have watched them grow.) Adding in confusing modular weapons would actually damage beginner experience. Im not saying modular weapons are bad, just that the Devs have to be careful about how they add them in, lest they damage the game more than help.

[ocean token]

the discription you provided sounds exacly like the railgun

the accelerator is 1 part but you can improve its capability by useing more than one

[fiery pine]

C'mon. Until it is not hard as From the Depths's modular weapons -- this is fine

[fiery pine]

It is very controversial topic because interesting and controlably complicated weapons can attract people

[runic wind]

Im aware, but not everyone does, again, im not against it, just making sure everyone is aware that some people find modular weapons confusing

[elfin hemlock]

this isn't confusing, it is just a gun with a menu that has sliders

[runic wind]

1, a gun with sliders isnt modular, and 2, i never stated which gun, just made it clear that confusingly modular weapons can be as much of a turn off as a turn on.

[elfin hemlock]

i assume from what the creator of the thread has said, being, different types of ammo, being '' motor strength '' which is turret turn speed, different firings, different barrel lengths and such

of which would likely be a slider for at least the turn speed thing

but still just a menu

[celest moth]

Beam is also a modular weapon, you just don't need to connect it directly

[elfin hemlock]

Ions aren't modular, moreso you can combine the output with diminishing returns

[rose geode]

may be necroing but is it me or something just add a build menu for the gun itself so when people edit the gun its not a block on the ship otherwise

just a block on the gun or something

[normal tree]

No I think it would be nice if every weapon was customizable like this, and the existing cannon are just pre-defined modular canons:
Standard Cannon

• Normal Barrel Length
• 1 ammo 1 shot magazine
• Standard ammo
• Standard Motor

Large Cannon

• Normal Barrel Length
• 4 Ammo 1 shot magazine
• Standard Ammo
• Big Motor

Deck Mounted Cannon

• Short deck-mounted Barrel
• 10 Ammo 1 shot magazine
• Standard Ammo
• Standard Motor

So you could customize the existing cannons if you wanted.

[normal tree]

You could still have the existing weapons which are just pick and place.
Maybe you can only build modular weapons with a special blueprint, so when a player gats to it they have had some time to get used to all the ingame systems.

[normal tree]

Yes you can you just build it in "default mode" (So straight ahead just like the barrels of existing cannons when you place them

[normal tree]

And some check boxes for magazines which hold multiple shots

[normal tree]

And even tough you might configure the weapon in a menu I would want the different configurations to look different visually so you can tell what kind of weapon you are dealing with while in combat.

[celest moth]

I mean they are semi modular

It's still a system that will require multiple blocks

[elfin hemlock]

Not all weapons should be customisable, it will make balance Far harder,
Also cannons use no energy making your motor thing harder to add without upset,
Also does this imply every weapon with " motor" will constantly suck energy from the reactor,
Also, in PvP there are no blueprints or anything you purchase from stations as everything is unlocked in it

Also, you cannot exactly place " barrel n.6 part " onto the end of a rotating cannon, as that part will be moving, and colliding to make a very janky and buggy experience

It will clip into the cannon if you turn it a certain way, it will clip into nearby blocks as an actual block

[ocean token]

cannon ammo types are considerable though

but if you get into stuff like barrels, hinges, and other things then you might want to make those actual parts you build onto your ship

like you place a hinge that ammo can go through and then loader/barrel stuff and behind that could be the crew control stuff for it to complete your 15 meter long cannon

[elfin hemlock]

Might as well just use a railgun at that point man,

[normal tree]

Any new player that starts immediately playing pvp will be overwhelmed anyway. Modular Weapons will just be the icing on the cake.

[normal tree]

Just like with building stuff right now you will need to make the apropiate space when placing stuff. (Upgrading from standard to medium thrusters for example)

[normal tree]

"Also does this imply every weapon with " motor" will constantly suck energy from the reactor"
No it doesn't it will require battery delivery just like every other part.
Or maybe the standard motor won't require battery delivery but if you weant a motor that turns faster you will need energy delivery.

[ocean token]

no, although railguns are an option, there is no option for just a regular spinal cannon, and the addition of hinges can allow it to work as a huge cannon, too
having a turreted railgun only would be extremely bland

they are even mechanically different from cannons in how the projectile works

[elfin hemlock]

hinges on rails won't be that detrimental, since every module except the loader still needs batteries supplied

[elfin hemlock]

then why ever use extra motor, turn speed except on a dc isn't that detrimental, and even on the dc turn speed being low is the drawback for it being the deck weapon, and i wouldn't exactly say different thrusters are upgrades of eachother either, the ht has drawbacks for the maximum thrust and is generally terrible for certain archetypes over lt, or even st, and i think it would be fairly strange for basically a 2 block wide cannon to have a 50 meter loing barrel attached to teh end of it

also, pvp isn't that confusing, even designing basic pvp archetypes isn't hard, just the higher logistics

[ocean token]

i never said it was detrimental, only extremely lacking in options

[elfin hemlock]

the next cannon

[normal tree]

Well combined with the ammo types and different magazines, turn speed can be important.
And about barrel length, I don't think a barrel length above 5 meters is necessary.
So you would have 5 barrel lengths to choose from (from 1 to 5 meters) So you will never run into extremely ridiculous weapons.

[elfin hemlock]

For most weapons, the turn speed is not so horrendous that you would really Need more turn speed, especially at a cost of making a gun that never needed energy, now need energy,
Magazines just sounds either useless or exploitable,
Barrel length is the least useful thing aswell, only cannons would ever have it, and even then cannons do not need them, and the extra costs wouldn't be wanted for something that does effectively nothing, the inaccuracies of the cannons is because of the high dps, which balances it to deal a lot of damage,
With different ammo types the outcome is that the Most cost effective/ highest dmg one will ever be used, because every other would be terrible in comparison,
It'd be the same as choosing to deal 200 dmg over 150 dmg,

Lasers generally have really great turnspeed, especially sl's, they have no inaccuracies either

[normal tree]

I would balance magazines in such a way that their DPS will always be the same over 1 minute, the Magazine will just change the way that damage is delivered (many small shots, few big shots, long reload time, but also a lot of damage in a short time, or fast reload but damage is more spread out)

• So the tactic could be: use magazines that can store 3 big shots so that with my first salvo I have already broken through the armor
• Use magazines that can only store one shot and only a small one, to have nearly always firing weapons that puts the enemy under basically constant fire.

Barrel length also effects range, not just accuracy and turn speed.
With Ammo, again all ammo types will have the same DPS, it is just that some are advantageous against different defenses:

• So the Massive Ammo will be slower to reload and slower projectile, but it has a lot of pierce and does more damage against armor.
• The fiery Ammo will have less damage per shot, but will always spawn fire and maybe have hotter fire that does more damage than normal fire and spreads a bit faster. (And will therefore compensate for its lower base DPS)
• The hollow Ammo will have great range, 0 pierce and very low damage against Armor, but extremely fast projectiles (nearly as fast as the railgun), much faster reload times and more damage against shields.

[elfin hemlock]

Do not start messing with range man, else you get High DPS snipers, DC bricks with 500 range

Also,
Magazines will end up with either only 1 ever gets used because it would just be better than every other,
Most guns only have 1 shot aswell so I don't see why you included that, as only the DC and dlb can fire two projectiles at once,
Weapons don't just need weapon turnspeed, the railgun can railfan for example, what we could do however is use " EB/hollow " bullets that kill shields, at massive range, with the DPS of cannons, with the projectile speed of railgun projectiles, and considering so many archetypes use shields and rely on them, especially the UL ones, it will be unbalanced and the only trade off being slightly worse at punching armour, even though it at the end is effectively a railgun, but cheaper, more DPS especially against shields and much smaller while also not requiring the same costs as a railgun, as cannons use less / shot,
"Massive shots" will just never be used, effectively the DC but even worse considering that the DC shots are so slow you can use an avoider to just avoid the shots, and that uls don't have armour either, being effectively only useful against DC bricks and slow railfans,
And fire ammo, Just no from me on that one,hits armour no fire because it did not hit a module that can have fire in it, or it could hit a shield where it also causes fire to a not compatible source, since it is a shield, or the alternative is that it hits a corner of the enemy ship 30, meters of armour away from the nearest fire enabled module, and causes fire to that module, at which you just get 30 cannons with the fire and burn the whole enemy ship in a single round spread evenly over the enemy,
Also, there are other things that need consideration such as Costs and perhaps more solid numbers aswell

[normal tree]

Well those long canons will turn so slowly that they will never align with the enemy ship unless they have very good energy supply. and even max Range should be something like 450-500.

[elfin hemlock]

Do you know what a railfan is

The guns do not turn, they still fire

[normal tree]

Yes I have build a lot of ships like that.
What is wrong with having gun based ones with less range?

[elfin hemlock]

But rails in consequence are expensive, far more weight dense than armour, accelerator being 2x weight dense,
They cannot aim at all, and their Dps is very low with high reliance on range and stuff

[elfin hemlock]

Because balance

Why ever use the expensive sniper when you can get 30 glocks for the same price that have basically the same range but more dmg

[normal tree]

"Magazines will end up with either only 1 ever gets used because it would just be better than every other”
That is not true. We already have different magazine sizes (the Rocket launcher has 3 slots for explosive rockets) and yet people still use the different magazine sizes because they have different benefits. Just like they will have for guns in my concept.

“what we could do however is use " EB/hollow " bullets that kill shields, at massive range, with the DPS of cannons, with the projectile speed of railgun projectiles”
The problem is Railguns have INSANE pierce and extremely high per hit damage, while the Hollow round gun, will have ~150 damage per shot, 0 pierce, … So they are balanced, yes you have theoretically more DPS, but that is only on one part, while a Railgun can damage 5+ Parts at the same time.

[elfin hemlock]

Except that you cannot exactly " customise" for 20 missiles instead

[normal tree]

"that uls don't have armour either, being effectively only useful against DC bricks and slow railfans"
Most rocket ships I have seen also rely predominantly on armor.

[normal tree]

Yes you can? Just build 7 Rocket launchers? Just like if you want to fire 20 Shots you will need 7 Guns and the tripple magazine, which will havea slow reload

[elfin hemlock]

That isn't how it exactly works,
If you can potentially turn the firing of1 gun to be the exact same effect as 20, that isn't balanced

[normal tree]

But you can't? All you can do is front load the damage so that it occurs directly at the beginning of the engagement, but the reload time will be so slow that it balances out with the other options

[elfin hemlock]

So you pay for 2 crew and now you can fire so fast your enemy has no chance

1 crew can load 2 ammo, a LC uses 2 ammo each shot

[normal tree]

"And fire ammo, Just no from me on that one,hits armour no fire because it did not hit a module that can have fire in it, or it could hit a shield where it also causes fire to a not compatible source,"
Yeah will only be situationally useful, maybe justz with starter ship classes or will be a good compliment to EMP weapons.

[elfin hemlock]

It will not be used in PvP to any capacity

[normal tree]

No? If you can front load 6 shots the gun will only fire again once all 6 shots are loaded in the magazine again.
So it will be just as fast as a normal gun, just that it has the ability to shoot 6 shots consecutively before you have to reload again.

[elfin hemlock]

And by situational, you mean it is only useful against a target with literally no defenses, no armour or shields

[elfin hemlock]

Crew can load shots far faster than they are fired

[normal tree]

Does every weapon have to be viable for PvP?

[elfin hemlock]

We don't need to muddy the game with several different ammos where basically 1 is ignored for being useless, 1 is overpowered, and the other is just as useless

[normal tree]

Yeah? Reloading takes time even with a single shot, with a 6 shot magazine reloading will take 6x as long.

[elfin hemlock]

Crew logistics, we PvP players spend ages doing this stuff

If it will fire 6x fast, it will be very potent,

Think of the average cannon alpha, those don't need reloading at all but instead to kill the target faster than they die

If you give the ability to then fire 6x faster, they will kill 6x faster

And domination already has enough of those

[normal tree]

No it wont fire 6x as fast. It will fire 6 shots in ~1 second and then it will take 5.5 seconds before it will fire again.

[elfin hemlock]

Also, think of the stats screen, you will have to then give Special stats for Each ammo for Each weapon

[elfin hemlock]

Then if it changes nothing, it will be used never

That's how it goes

[normal tree]

No you have to wait for the weapon to reload for a normal large Cannon that is .83 seconds.

[elfin hemlock]

An alpha doesn't reload

[normal tree]

Why? It could be very usefull to stack you damage so that you only fire when the armor/shield is weakest and not every .83 seconds when the opportunity might not be perfect.

[normal tree]

Again how is the hollow round OP when it has 0 pierce?

[elfin hemlock]

That isn't how it works though, if you have to wait 6 seconds before you can fire again, you might as well just do nothing, and thus it does not get used, say you do use it, and the enemy knows you use it,
They can just do regular Avoider tactics and spread damage, and since you won't fire for longer than a railguns reload you can just attack free of charge

Regular cannons have no pierce

You effectively just add dmg, and range

[ocean token]

nukes:

[normal tree]

Why does tzhe Wiki say this then?

[ocean token]

.....

armor go brrr

[normal tree]

No as I said hollow ronds have less damge, because they are lighter, to compensate they have more range, they will still have more DPS than a railgun, but again WAY less pierce than a railgun

[elfin hemlock]

"more damage against shields "

[normal tree]

Correct, to compensate the less damage overall to all other ship parts

[elfin hemlock]

also, while cannons say they have penetration, it never really actual deald penetration damage

the lc does Very, Very minor dmg to the block behind the one it hits on an off chance#

the sc, i have never actually seen it deal penetration dmg

[ocean token]

iirc it prevents overkill from it

[elfin hemlock]

wth 750 dmg you lose effectively nothing

[ocean token]

it still matters to some extent

[elfin hemlock]

i mean, that extra 50 dmg is quite the trade for giving the weapon 500 range and the same speed and accuracy as a railgun

[ocean token]

they did not say it would have improved accurazy

[normal tree]

even with a 5 meter long barrel the accuracy should be less than the railgun

[elfin hemlock]

the railgun already has inaccuracies, you target a 1x1 hallway infront of an lr, and there is still the slightest chance that you miss

the lr behind it

[ocean token]

what an example of all time

[elfin hemlock]

made for rails since kiters were annoying

[ocean token]

"it had 1% chance of missing crew member"

if you're not gonna count that 50 extra damage maybe you shouldn't count that inaccuracy as well

[normal tree]

You have to compare it to a railgun though not a canon, as we have established it is closer to a railfan than to a canon.
And a rasilfan makes significant use of its pierce, and would be unterly useless without it, so to compensate the canons havea higher DPS, which should balance it out without being OP.

[elfin hemlock]

that is because a base railgun has 2500 dps,

the damage is on piecre, where as a cannon has dps, in dps

[normal tree]

But it has no built in inaccuracy, the inaccuracy just comes from the game update rate being so low that within 1 frame you might have fanned past a single block

[normal tree]

correct, I am sure you can balance it in a way that the results are similar without favoring one over the other.

[elfin hemlock]

the reason cannons have the lowest range is because they have very high dps

give them range and it is like giving a shotgun the same capabilities as an accurate pistol

you snipe someone halfway across the map

[normal tree]

Yeah and the hollow round has also less DPS, and less pierce

[normal tree]

That is literally what a sniper does, and they exist in most games without problem

[elfin hemlock]

the pierce is nothing man, basically the least effective drawback for Over double the range, far faster bullets and very little cost

[elfin hemlock]

the job of sniper is taken by railguns,

which is why they have so many drawbacks

the heaviest things, the most costly things, taking up a lot of room, needing large amounts of energy, and also ammo on the side

[normal tree]

Yes the pierce is a lot, compare the pierce on a railgun vs a laser bolt,

[elfin hemlock]

you can probably just get 20 cannons, i'd say you spend 300k on that, then get the rest of the 1.2m budget solid on thrust and go 170 M/s backwards as the fastest kite ever known

where as you get 4 railguns and go 110 m/s backwards, 130 at most

after spending 500k on those railguns

[normal tree]

The only ships that I have seen that mangeover 120 m/s used boosters, so where not sustainable, and they didn't have a single weapon, basically just thrusters.

[elfin hemlock]

131 m/s

100% uptime thrust

play some elimination, you'll see speed meta

[ocean token]

your're ships look so fancy

[tawny wasp]

Alright. Back to topic of big gun.
First of all big gun must go big boom, otherwise there's no point. But we can still make the big boom interesting.
There are two approaches for this, one is to have it as a superweapon, a literal main gun that requires a lot of service, the other is to have it as a more modest kind of gun. I'll go with the supergun, since it's easier to nerf or tune it down from there.
The idea is to place the modules down, which will generate the final look and functionality of the gun, until it is repaired/reconstructed, at which point the appearance is "reassembled"/recalculated from the available pieces.

Basic setup, 1x base 1x rest 1x shell loader, 1x powder loader
Parts list:
Gun base
Flute rest
Barrel rest
Drum rest
Shell loader
Powder loader
Charge loader
Motor

Gun base
Size: 5x5
Crew: 6
Cost: lots of steel, some tritanium, negligible amount of carbon, possibly hypercoils
The centrepiece that defines where the gun sits. The part that turns the gun around. Without adjacent motor modules it stays stationary or slowly returns to its default position. Requires rest modules to function as a gun, otherwise just fires a plume of smoke. The gun returns to a default position when not firing, meaning the block has directionality, it has a front where the cannons go, which is relevant to parts placement.

[tawny wasp]

Flute rest
Size: 1x3
Crew: none
Cost: mainly steel and some tritanium
This is where the gun barrel rests by default.
Placed perpedicularly to the front of the base, it adds the lowest caliber canon. Up to 5 such parts can be fitted to the front of the base.
They can be stacked to make the cannons longer by 1 more flute rest. If any part of the stacked rest is blown up, the gun becomes disfunctional, the cannon appearing damaged/blown.
Its low caliber and limited length make it weak and inaccurate, but it also allows it to be easily reloaded and fire quickly.

[elfin hemlock]

costs maybe?

[tawny wasp]

All I could do is guesstimate from parts of similar size. And not all those numbers would sit right with everyone, so I'm leaving that part open.
But if you have a more specific idea of how much it should cost, post it :)

[obsidian kraken]

good idea

sort of a from the depths approach

[tawny wasp]

Barrel rest
Size: 2x3
Crew: none
Cost: mainly steel, some tritanium and a small amount of wire.
Again the barrel rests here in the gun base's default position. Placed in the right orientation to the front of the base, it adds a bigger cannon to the gun base. Up to 2 such cannons fit onto a gun base.
This rest can be stacked once or twice, going up to 2x9 with 3 modules stacked. If any part of the stacked rest is blown up, the gun becomes disfunctional, the cannon appearing damaged/blown.
Higher caliber means more damage, but also higher base ammo cost and reload speed. Longer barrel allows for higher accuracy.

[tawny wasp]

The hardest part of this would be the module directionality and rendering the gun and its gun damage.

[tawny wasp]

Drum rest
Size: 3x3
Crew: none
Cost: lots of steel and tritanium with a bit of wire.
Default place for the cannon. Placed the right way around, it adds a thick cannon to the base.
Can stack once, forming a 3x6 with 2 modules. If any module blows up, the cannon blows up.
Highest caliber = highest damage, highest ammo cost, highest reload speed and slower projectile velocity. When used along with a charge loader, the projectile's AoE gets a boost.
Not as accurate as the barrels, due to a shorter barrel and slower projectile by default.

[tawny wasp]

Shell loader
Size: 3x2
Crew: none, but requires logi
Demands: shell material, energy
Cost: similar to a missile part factories
Here shells for the cannon rounds are manufactured from various materials, which you can set in the module's tab by clicking on it. The materials selected give damage or penetration boost to the rounds fired.
Steel plate produces the most basic shell, the default round damage.
Tritanium plate produces a heavy hitter that has a slight penetration boost to make use of all that damage somewhere useful.
Wire produces a cheaper yet higher penetration round, without change to damage.
The materials are consumed when the cannons are reloading.
The modules must be adjacent to the base, touching at least one side of it with one block.
To boost reload speed you can place a second shell loader, any additional shell loaders should have rapidly diminishing returns, due to balance.

[elfin hemlock]

Railgun 2 the rail'ing

I think this gun should probably only have, 170 range at most

[tawny wasp]

Powder loader
Size: 2x2
Crew: none, but needs logi
Demands: sulfur (fuel), energy
Cost: same as an ammo factory
Adds the propellant to the cannon rounds. Unlike the shell loader it increases range and projectile speed, along with higher recoil and sulfur costs to each round fired, for each module touching the base.

[tawny wasp]

That's where the motor part comes in.
It's more in line with modular thrusters as you have more things to place around it than just long rows of accelerators.

[ocean token]

i dont think so, huge cannons should not be that range limited
such a small range for such a large would would look incredibly weird as well as heavily limit the ways you can use a weapon that so much work had been put into

[tawny wasp]

Charge loader
Size: 3x3
Crew: 2, also needs logi
Demands: charge parts, energy
Cost: as much as rocket part factories
This module stuffs the shells full of surprises. The more you have, the bigger the AoE these modules add, but the more each round consumes.
Steel plates add some damage, should combine nicely with copper shells.
Ammo adds AoE on impact.
Hi-ex rocket parts add a bit of auto steering to the projectile, and has the AoE of an ammo charge.
EMP parts add emp explosion.
Mine parts make the AoE even bigger.
No use for nuke parts.
Hyperium causes a concussive explosion, shaking the impacted ship. (Could work to stop the crew inside)

[elfin hemlock]

Big bullet takes more work to propell, meaning low range and big damage,

It should stay low range

Rather than just " 600+/- small amount range not railgun that deals bigger damage "

[ocean token]

it should not be low range, being slow-ish is fine but having a 20 meter long gun with a range that low would be extremely odd and might even destory the entire use of them

because its a cannon should not mean it should have a pathetic range

the deck cannon already feels kinda weird

[elfin hemlock]

while it may feel '' weird '' to you, it does not to me

but it should so be that you don't just get a 20 meter long cannon that both replaces the railgun and is the end all be all of any weapon

[ocean token]

it wouldnt replace railguns, even with 400 meter range
you want something that is less thann 33% of a railgun's range, and less than the smallest weapons packed into a huge gun

it just doesnt make sense and wouldnt feel good as a result

it just sounds unfun, cant even use them for a big cool defense platform because of literally everything being able to kite it

[elfin hemlock]

And instead, it will do the kiting to everything except specifically rails and missiles,
And the whole " not making sense" thing, why would More range to a projectile fired by controlled explosions do better than a Big beam such as ions that would be more realistic as having infinite range,
It doesn't need to have perfect sense, but giving a cannon more range than laser blasters, being lasers, wouldn't make more sense in that sense, and as such, it should stay with the Other cannons with low range

That and we don't need Another Kiter

[ocean token]

because its simply larger and can last longer
irl, big cannons useally have longer ranges then smaller ones, too
and having 400 range isnt gonna make it a kiter if the projectile still doesnt go as fast or is as accurate as the other 3 weapons

it could simply be less effective at such range, but still be capable of traveling that far

[elfin hemlock]

To beat a Kiter, you must chase the Kiter, even the slowest or projectiles will hit something traveling to the kite

[elfin hemlock]

Technically, a laser should have infinite range, and in real life it does, but in cosmoteer it only gets 280 range

Or 260, don't recall the exact specific

Also, " Hi-ex rocket parts add a bit of auto steering to the projectile"
That doesn't sound like wildly inaccurate to me now does it

And with that, " power loader" to which " increases range and projectile speed "

Sounds like something that is trying to replace rails

To which, I say 170 range is enough, far more than a rammer needs anyways,

Also, considering that the only other modular weapon, the railgun has it's accelerators 2x weight dense than solid armour, I'd say this weapon should at the very least follow in that

[ocean token]

...
even in the meta, this cannon should NOT be an exclusive rammer weapon

giving it such low range ruins its reason to exist, and gives it the same issue that deck cannons have but to a FAR worse extent

you add so many mechanics for this great modular potential superweapon and limit it to RAMMING????

that is a completely horrible idea, absolutely not, this weapon should not in any capacity be limited to ramming
this is what plasma saws are for
the "cannons = ram" mindset does not work for this

[elfin hemlock]

DC's 190 range is perfectly fine I don't see any reason why it's bad,
And ramming would be the PvP use, you can still set anywhere within that 170 range with this bigger cannon,
And by that logic all cannons shouldn't ram and should be made into miniature the railguns with 400 range, but I wouldn't want that, and I don't think a few others would either,
If it is a cannon it cannot be given an exception even if it takes up slightly more space on the ship

Also, more range will still just make it another Kiter, especially with homing shots, and faster projectiles

Are you secretly a big fan of kites?

[patent orchid]

All this talk about fancy guns, when I just want to be able to adjust the color of the lasers while giving them slight alterations, like
-red: 100% shield / 100% module
-green: 90% shield / 111% module
-blue 125% shield/ 80% module

I know that disruptors exist as "yellow lasers" but still I'd like to see some variety

[ocean token]

this is not slightly more, we are talking about ones that would be more than 5x the size of deck cannons in volume

[ocean token]

and oh my god, you want to make it have less range than regular cannons
that is absolutely terrible, its low to the point that the entire use of this weapon can be throwen away

[ocean token]

i am talking about massive cannons in general, not megaspeed seeking crap that railguns had, i am not counting that in
it is just your idea of giving a supersize cannon a horrindious range is one of the worst ideas ive ever seen from you, and it doesnt make sense in any good capacity

[ocean token]

how is this weapon going to be a problematic kiter when you have weapons with more range and accuracy that might as well do better at their absolute maximum range (not to say the cannon would be anywhere near outright worse when used properly)

[elfin hemlock]

'' Hi-ex rocket parts add a bit of auto steering to the projectile, and has the AoE of an ammo charge. ''

homing bullets

meaning very good accuacy

''Adds the propellant to the cannon rounds. Unlike the shell loader it increases range and projectile speed,''
more range and projectile speed, also good for kiting

we see ion kiters, they only have 300 range, something with 400 range can definitely kite

I still really advocate low range, or it becomes very abusable

[elfin hemlock]

Also, rails are very overweight, missiles have to rely on missile AI which can be dodged, and emps only damage shields

[ocean token]

they instantly hit and cannot be evaded
missiles seek and are a lot harder to evade
rails go very fast, good luck evading that
what happens with a long ranged projectile that doesnt seek, go fast, or instantly hit?

[ocean token]

i just said im not counting that here, stop trying to prove otherwise/change what im arguing about

[ocean token]

is it gonna be like railgun speeds? very likely not

[elfin hemlock]

what are you going to do to kill the kiter? sit there and wait?

you still have to chase the kiter, meaning you move towards the projectiles

[elfin hemlock]

ion have 300 range, and prism turning is terrible,
missile dodging is a very regular thing and one of the big ul methods of killing morbiters,
rails are exceedingly heavy, and have low dps, hard countered by ls and ramming
where as a big kiter cannon would be tedious to kill, even moreso than a railkite

[ocean token]

if said kiter is going to waste all their ammo at a range where their accuracy is bad and the bullets are easy to dodge... yeah

lol

if thet optimize the cannon to have fast projectiles and be accurate, it might have other weaknesses

[elfin hemlock]

and so far no weakness has been suggested

[quasi cosmos]

make it cheapnt'

[ocean token]

crew stun duration/radius, usage in power/munition, recoil, projectile health/damage/pen, weight

[tawny wasp]

Motor
Size: 2x2
Crew: 1, needs logi
Demands: energy
Cost: Lots of coils, possibly hypercoils, some basic steel
First installation allows the cannon a 30° firing arc and slow turning speed.
They would either consume energy when the cannon moves, or just consume it constantly.
(optional) Their performance could be boosted by having an engineering room module next to it.
(otherwise) Each additional motor adds some degrees to the firing arc and turning speed, the bonus should increase with additional motors rather than diminish, going up to the level of a deck gun.

This is how I image the one with barrel rests. Lasers stand in for rests, TB for base, Hyperdrives for motors, factories for the various loaders.
You could sacrifice motors for better projectile performance. While the gun doesn't need a lot of crew it will need a lot of crew to supply it efficiently.

[coral hound]

this would be an amazing variation to replace the deck cannons

if we have one type of roof weapon why not make it unique than big gun on roof make boom