More Metaland Factories

[livid sand]

So I literally just responded about the silver in another thread. I happened to have released silver as a resource yesterday. In that mod, silver is used to make silver coils and is sorta a more advanced version of copper (since both these metals have many similar properties and silver is the one metal that has better electrical conductivity compared to copper)

Titanium is alsoa good suggestion I think, but we need not limit ourselves to existing materials (like hyperium)

[muted thicket]

Depending on the costs it will either replace the regular armour, or not be used at all

Although I could see it being useful if it all has the same cost to hitpoint ratio, such as the titanium armour having 1000 hitpoints for every 200 credits,

As in a 1x1 cube will have 4000 hitpoints at the cost of 800

[lost pulsar]

Tradeoff with weight and special resistance (or lack of) characteristics

[dusty gulch]

The newer material based armours would need some interesting drawbacks to be added imo. Not a 1x1 block or 1x2 block like the armour we currently have, but maybe some different dimensions/shapes that force builders to plan around them. For example, titanium armour could be an L shape, tungsten armour would be 3x2, and both should be EXTREMELY cost inefficient compared to normal armour.
If we just had them added as armour, but better, it'd just be generic power creep.

[livid sand]

There is already tristeel armor and diamond armor which are both ridiculously expensive (these are from mods). Personally I'd like a cheaper in-between armor, but which does have all the parts that standard armor has.

Also, there is currently a bug with the tristeel armor and diamond armor which causes repairing of these armors to be too cheap. This has to do with the resources.rules file where things like drop rates are put in.
It's the same mechanism that causes things like ion beams to never cost diamond to repair.

[near cedar]

Tritanium is basically a stand in for high tech materials like tungsten and titanium.
Adding silver as a superconductor component could place an interesting challenge on their production. Alternatively gold could be used to do the same thing without implementing a new resource.
While I strongly support the idea of a banana processing unit for potassium production. I do not think it has much to add :D

[lost pulsar]

Game is literally unplayable for me without Bananas now.

[near cedar]

We have a banana in the command centre.

[livid sand]

No banana hydrophonics plantation for that 20% extra speedboost the bananas will provide?

[hollow marten]

I really want metals like tungsten, zinc, tin, lead, titanium, silver, cobalt, platinum,... alloys like bronze and brass would be great too

also a furnace to turn ores into bars (that can be stored in bigger stacks) that would then be used in factories insead of raw ores would be great

[near cedar]

The Factoneer dlc :P
There could be some stuff to increase the complexity of resource management. But it shouldn't be expanded, just cause.

[hollow marten]

also instead of adding custom things for each metal it would probably be better to add customiseable parts that would get affected by the properties of the metal

each metal/alloy would have a hardness and density that would affect penetration, dmg and cost of the part (could be ammo or armor or other stuff)

also for explosive/reactive resources you could add a metal it reacts with to create different explosions

also for the furnace each metal would probably have a different melting temperature > different power consumption

so uhhhh

I dunno how to code

so if any bored modder that doesn't know what to do reads this...

[livid sand]

I considered such a mod, but ended up not using this solution as I found my compact storages more convenient (mod I released about 10 days ago) as it stores the original nuggets and it stores it in quantities of up to 10000 for every 1x1 space in your ships

[livid sand]

You mean that new materials shouldn't be added just because?
If so, then I'd tend to agree with you.

I added only 2 new mineable resources as I wanted to try to add as few new mineable materials as I could while still making an interesting (more end-game) building economy (using silver coils and an enriched element that is essentially a souped up uranium).

I'd consider adding 1 or maybe 2 more mineable materials, but it's not a very high priority for me atm.

It could also end up making things unnecessarily complex

[livid sand]

This sounds like you have an idea for a mod you'd want to start working on 😛

[livid sand]

Just learn it 🙂 😛
It's what I did 😛

[hollow marten]

yea that's a good idea but I have no idea where and what to start with

I think I can think about how the code would work but I just dunno the languages

[livid sand]

Ask in modding here on discord

It's how I got to learn the coding bit at least

[teal swan]

i agree some more would be good, but not too many. or you will have a case of headaches and inventory_full.exe

(i mean, what happens quickly in terraria or minecraft)

if someone is going to make a mod that adds titanium and tungsten, tell me, i'm going to make armor using them

[hollow marten]

What about a universal mod that adds common ores for all other mods

That would be nice I think

[teal swan]

i think i'll make diamond armor first before that specializes in pen resist

well, composite armor

[livid sand]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2907319047

lil late... 😛

[livid sand]

You mean all 100+ existing chemical elements? And what about more fantasy elements?

[hollow granite]

almost useless elements in the background:

[livid sand]

I kinda like the idea of having a mod that includes user made materials, but the main problem is who is gonna run it? And what is gonna be added to such a mod?
Only the raw materials? Or would it include the processed materials and products as well? And the factories? Would the asteroids containing them be centrally organized as well? What about the end products? What if there's 5 modders trying to push their version of titanium armor at the same time?

The base idea seems nice, but the execution could end up becoming one big mess with lots of arguments (and maybe mudslinging) going left and right

[teal swan]

yeah, and i don't like it

[teal swan]

raw, processed, and factory

but i agree with you, i don't really like the mod that adds lithium... but otherwise, his mod is great quality

(why lithium, we already have batteries)

[livid sand]

I will just say that the author of that particular mod tried to guilt-trip me into adapting my mod to suit his standardisation, and that he went raging as I blocked him here on discord.
He said I was a bad teamplayer (amongst other things) if I didn't do things his way, so noty 🙂

[teal swan]

lmao

[livid sand]

It's either -his- standard, or -you- are not a teamplayer

[teal swan]

those kind of people smh

i personally the type of person who will say to do what you want, you're free to make what you desire, i don't care, so neither should you

[livid sand]

But to get back on topic, the issue is manyfold, though the idea of a centralized mod containing raw resources seems like a nice idea at first

But it's very difficult to create it without at least someone not agreeing with you

[teal swan]

or, while convoluted, we could make 1 mod per resource, and let people opt in to whatever resource they desire (still raw, processed, and factories, so that we don't end up with 5 factories that does the same thing)

[livid sand]

For example, suppose there's 5 people who release a mod featuring -their- version of titanium armor, which one should be the standard one?
And I'm not sure if there's anything against making mods that use the same names as an older already released mod

[livid sand]

This might actually be a bit better idea

[teal swan]

that's the magic, it's fucked up

[livid sand]

I actually did (and still do) consider releasing my own resources as stand-alone

Would include only 4 resources though. Silver (and its product Silver Coils) and Letalium (along with its product Enriched Letalium)

[teal swan]

while i tend to make sure stuff is about same balance as vanilla, some don't care ahah (i need a spriter for my mod)

[livid sand]

But still people could end up releasing 5 different versions of titanium

(i also need a spriter for my mod)
(but not right now)

[teal swan]

high five

[livid sand]

heh

[teal swan]

regardless, i'll do my own version of composite/diamond armor, which will be the third one in modern (about less health than armor, but good pen resist, i'll go with steel and low amount of diamond. it is based on real composite tank armor)

[livid sand]

There are also different kinds of balance. Like, I play with several asteroid mods that increase the amount of stuff I can mine and I also play with unlimited manpower, so I can get a large fleet more quickly.
But then I also play with SirCampalots Fleet Action Mod which significantly increases the amount of enemies so my losses can be staggering when fighting even just a single group of enemies

It's still balanced in some way, but not even close to what the original game's balance is

And other people will prefer to have another kind of balance.

[teal swan]

i mean as in with the vanilla blocks

[livid sand]

Composite armor, sound nice. I'm actually considering also creating at least 1 new type of armor that is better suited to be used for my Extended Tech Tree Mod

Not sure if I'm gonna create a new resource for that purpose though, but I won't start on that for at least a few weeks I think as I have more other stuff to complete first

[teal swan]

for exemple, the diamond armor you showed me is better in everthing but needs more money (maybe it is heavier, but it's still far superior)

[livid sand]

Lets just say that I have plenty of ideas and not a lot of time 😛

[teal swan]

and i wish i had a job

[livid sand]

Yes, I really wanted a diamond armor, but I also didn't want it be weaker than tristeel armor since tristeel is a LOT cheaper than diamonds

So it kinda went to its current stats by itself

Personally I think it's really too strong, but mostly because the jump from normal armor to tristeel armor is already so huge

[teal swan]

oh shit, it's really yours XD

[livid sand]

and diamond armor is about 4x stronger than tristeel armor

and also has better pen resistance iirc

[teal swan]

to me tristeel isn't stronger than steel, to me tristeel is corrosion resistant

[livid sand]

To me tristeel is stronger. I'd like a tristeel armor in the base game

And actually, when I first started playing the demo, I couldn't wait to try out the tristeel armor I was sure would be in the base game! 😛

and then I found out there was no such thing as tristeel armor 😦

[hollow marten]

how hard would it be to still have one mod with all the ores but have each ore disabled unless another mod uses the ore?

[livid sand]

Diamond armor is actually heavier (iirc I set the density from 3 to 4 or something), but imho I should have set it a bit higher from hindsight

[livid sand]

I'm not sure, but since we might end up with a LOT of extra resources, it might turn mods using a certain mix of resources into a real clusterfuck

Especially if adding more and more resources is an ongoing process

And also since cosmoteer is still actively being developed

[hollow marten]

true

well I think having a mod for each ore isn't bad at all

tho one giant mod could be more convenient for the player

[teal swan]

in reference to this thread, we shall call it the Metaland mod series

[muted thicket]

In comparison to Enriched uranium, just uranium 235 isn't all that useful

[jolly flame]

Very high quality textures.

[muted thicket]

Enriched uranium is made out of both uranium 235, and uranium 238, generally less than 1% of enriched uranium used for sustaining a nuclear fission plant is actually uranium 235,

[jolly flame]

Yeah basically higher quality, more pure Uranium.

[hollow marten]

agreed

[muted thicket]

Enriched uranium for weapons is using far more uranium 235, as uranium 238 is a much less energetic uranium, and is better for slower reactions

[livid sand]

That's possible. I hadn't really thought of Plutonium before I released those 2 mineable resources, though I had several reasons to create a fictitious element named Letalium. Because of it's hint to "lethal" (it's where the word lethal originated from) and because it's a reference to an old gamers nick I used to have (my friends know what I'm talking about 😛 ).

But I could have gone with plutonium I guess, but I wanted something a bit more special and I actually wanted to also add a more science fiction-esque element 😛

[livid sand]

Doesn't sound too bad tbh. But still it may be a bit of a minefield to craete such a (series of) mod(s).

But I might support something like that, or like I mentioned earlier today, release my resources on my own accord so others can build upon it without requiring the rest of my mod

[teal swan]

i know... but worth the try, if nobody does it, i'll start to do it in a few days

[livid sand]

I do kinda like the idea, so I will keep an eye on any such project I happen to come across 😛

[teal swan]

it's a game, let's not forget that you also make steel from iron there

[livid sand]

I was actually going to say something similar to that 😛 (or planning to, but decided not to)

[hollow marten]

.

[livid sand]

Iirc there was also a mod that had a factory that turned iron and carbon into steel

[teal swan]

yes there is

[teal swan]

hey, it does look kinda cool :D

ok, it needs more work

not perfect, but at least it's a bit unique

what do you think @livid sand ?

why are diamonds so expensive T.T

i may have to make a small diamond resource just to make this armor usable XD

or make it have more HP than i intended

[jolly flame]

What is Metaland?

Metaland factory sounds cool though.

OH... METAL, AND

Got it.

[teal swan]

yeah, typo, but that sounds cool

[jolly flame]

:>

Has happened to me too.

[teal swan]

tldr: so we agreed that some people should make simple individual resources that can be used by other modders ahah

[jolly flame]

Good.

I've been having an idea for a new resource for months, heck, even since classic!

It's truly a special something.

[teal swan]

well, you can do it, and i'll make the Metaland Factory collection and add it.
basically, it's a single raw resource, factory and processed resource per mod

don't forget, the price of the processed resource is 2.5 times the price of it raw

[livid sand]

It is unique yes

[teal swan]

thanks :3

i'll make the 1x2, 1x1 tri, 1x2 tri and 1x3 tri later. though i'll certainly not make the small triangle

[muted thicket]

Diamond encrusted steel plates, made with 1/10th of a diamond each

[hollow marten]

I suggest that if you make a metal plate you should put the chemical symbol of the metal on it like this

also if you make a fictional metal you would probably need to come up with a symbol for it like Tr for tritanium

I used arial black size 20 for that btw

[teal swan]

alternative to breaking diamonds (diamond crusher), make a small diamond factory, that sounds simpler

[jolly flame]

W indeed.

[livid sand]

But there already is a tristeel in the game, this is its icon

So that system already breaks down right there

Btw, what is the W based on?

[livid sand]

The price is actually 25% higher.
In some cases it's higher but that's because a multiple of the raw resources are used for the processed resource

Hyper-coils may be an exception, but I don't know from top of my head

[livid sand]

What is it?

[teal swan]

oh yeh, my bad

[livid sand]

I'd suggest to let the mod authors themselves decide what symbols to use for their materials

[teal swan]

well, you multiply by 4 for ammos and missiles

[livid sand]

That's true

But that's for ammo. I don't know why this was done, perhaps an old veteran like Nick could tell us?

I do recall there was a reason for this

Wait, that 4 is actually the difference between sell and buy

That multiple is 2 for non-ammo resources

So if you sell ammo, the value is divided by 4 instead of by 2

[teal swan]

wow it's awful XD need more fix, but here is the overlay for small diamond

[livid sand]

(or alternatively thye value is multiplied by 4 if you buy instaed of sell ammo)

[livid sand]

Suggestion: Use a section of the diamond icon for your crushed diamond resource?

So it looks a bit like a triangle often associated with diamonds

Something like this?

Oh crap, why doesn't it just show? (attachment replaced by the one I added below as this one didn't work as intended)

[teal swan]

well, i switched from crushing to just making small diamonds that use 1 coal instead of 20, simpler is better

[livid sand]

There we go 🙂

[teal swan]

here what i made a smol factory

[livid sand]

Any suggestions on how to make new factories?

I'm thus far using placeholders till the base mod of mine is functionally done

[teal swan]

well, it's my first time using the resource given by kroom

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314115147184603137/1051586096716333147/Doodads.png

pinned in modding

[livid sand]

@teal swan

[teal swan]

yes ?

i mean, i agree with that, all modders are free to use the symbol they want. we're not a standardisation team. if anything, it is boring

[hollow marten]

But if we used random shapes we would quickly run out of shapes

[teal swan]

you don't have to make a plate

[hollow marten]

True

But I think having all the metal plates labeled with chemical symbols would be nice

[livid sand]

There is plenty to chose from I think. Also I think we're less likely to run out of symbols then out of texture atlas space 😛

[hollow marten]

Hmm true

[livid sand]

It would, but for me it's mainly about all items being easy to identify.

For example, for Letalium (a raw resource present in one of my mods) I used the omega, as it is recongiseable

One other mod uses a logo that is supposed to be some kind of improved tristeel and that mod author uses 4 traingles instead of 3 (and maybe a different color but I don't remember that), which imo is also recognizeable

Iirc that is, but my point is that it should be fairly easy to create a custom symbol that makes the mod author's material stand out in some way

Also, it may be easier to not create a compound mod, but a collection featuring all the new materials. That way mod authors can update their resources individually.

[jolly flame]

:>
You shall find out when I finish the concept.

[teal swan]

a stack of 20 small diamonds. you can hate it, but that's what it looks like

[teal swan]

well, you may not hate it, but i personally find it awful

now i just have to make the factory (and this one will gain from adjacent factories)

[muted thicket]

Couldn't they be stacked the same way ammo is?

Or steel

[teal swan]

perhaps steel, but it's not really readable, and if i did like ammo i could get up to 18 (then stack 2 at the top)

well, i'm too lazy to change it

[livid sand]

Consider it a placeholder till you can make something better 😛

[teal swan]

lol like my plasma weapons ?

[jolly flame]

Hmm what's this. I wanted to react to that message and saw this. Never seen that before.

[Oh whoops outta context]

[jolly flame]

Also known as Wolfram.

[livid sand]

Did you just make it to illustrate what you were trying to say, or is there already a mod using tungsten?
I actually know it mainly from being used as a thread in a lighbulb and iirc it was used in APFSDSs.

[jolly flame]

It's used as a lightbulb thread (Lithium is used too I think) because it's a heavy metal and much like most others has a very high melting point.

Not just that though. HECK, Tungsten has the highest melting point of any pure metal!

3422 degrees Celsius!

[teal swan]

tungsten is used in many things, it's one of the heaviest (densest) element, is very hard (used in steel machining and APFSDs i guess) and didn't know they had such a high melting point

[livid sand]

I did, as it has a very high melting point as that is why it was used in lightbulbs

Or at least that is how it was tought to me 😛

It got useage in APFSDS more because of its better pen characteristics (mostly due to its higher density) compared to steel. Later this got (partially) supplanted by depleted uranium.

[jolly flame]

Huh how nifty, thought their biggest sellong point was their meltong point. At least that's how their first introduced in almost any subject to me.

[teal swan]

i know mostly that it's really heavy and used in steel machining

and i think that you can only machine tungsten with tungsten, but it's unsure about that one

because it will end up expensive, as tungsten against tungsten sounds destructive for both parts

[jolly flame]

True.

The melting point this ludicrous makes smelting it hard as well.

[teal swan]

you can't work steel with steel, for it will get stuck or destroyed

well, maybe it depends on how you work it

[jolly flame]

I mean of course.

But if you heat up steel a few hundred degrees then giving it a shape with steel tools will be easy.

...At least that's what I think.

[teal swan]

ye, that's called forging

[jolly flame]

Right.

[jolly flame]

My point was that you can't really force Tungsten to become malleable by heating it as most definitely you'll need so much heat you'll make your EQUIPMENT more malleable than it.

[teal swan]

true

[teal swan]

did you make this image just to illustrate your point. or have you made a mod with tungsten ?

so it was to make a point

well, it wasn't you

uuuuh, there's a confusion here

[livid sand]

Where did you get that image from?

[teal swan]

#1085336653951934536 message

it's the wrong person XD

it took me sometime because of campalot

anyway, on an other note, i may have the small diamond factory almost ready tomorrow (finishing spriting the factory tomorrow) and i'll do the usual career, tech, and string stuff -.-"

then after than i'll go back to composite diamond armor

[livid sand]

Ow I see now. I assumed it was him since he seemed 100% the W was tungsten in this particular case, though it may seem obvious, it's not a 100% sure thing

-deleted because probably incorrect-

Still curious where it came from btw 😛

[teal swan]

the periodic table

[livid sand]

I meant the pic of the metal plate with the W engraved into it 😛

[teal swan]

from his computer

[livid sand]

So he made it?

[hollow marten]

Yea I just overlayed a steel plate with a tungsten color, then increased the contrast and stuff and then I used a text function to write the W there

[teal swan]

i need an image for the collection T.T