Add a high-risk high-reward ability for players to mine stars for rare resources. This would make stars more useful than just being an exclusion zone.
#Star Mining
forest plaza
hot pilot
There are resources inside the exclusion zone though?
forest plaza
There are? I was under the impression that they were always empty. Didn't see any when skimming it with my ships.
candid pecan
there is even the strategy to use a strongly shielded ship with tractor beams to pull the recources out of the danger zone so they can be mined
hot pilot
It's not really a strategy, it's what you have to do lol
low wolf
You could make sun harvesting into a lucrative business for the player but super difficult to get into
Where it only nets a positive earning on it when you do it enough
what could it give? Well- plasma would be a cool new thing to add for let's say Plasma weaponry that would be a stronger version of the laser weaponry.
It would be stored in fluid tanks instead of storage blocks though...
open pier
It could be a way to mine after you already ran out of asteroids.
Mining stars, or planets.
Anyone remember we have actual planets?
shut needle
mining planets if not done correctly would feel like just throwing a rig out in space and profiting
not any real risk or reward to it
which is why i'm opposed unless it can be done well
hot pilot
I meam, plasma is already easy to make sooo don't get why you'd get it from the star, besides main benefit to star lifting is getting heavy resources
open pier
mining planets if not done correctly would feel like just throwing a rig out in ...
So, like normal mining? ;p
shut needle
well yeah but it's even less of a time commitment
slap a rig and passively generating resources
shut needle
which is why i'm opposed unless it can be done well
why i'm opposed unless it's done well
if you can come up with an imaginary mechanic i'd be fine with it
but i'm not seeing that and i'm also not going to make one for you
so uh
yeah.
open pier
I would just make it take a long time and the mining ship can't move in the meantime
Maybe make it summon pirates
shut needle
"long time" doesn't cut it for me tbh
there's a difference between active time commitment and passive time commitment if you get my point
open pier
Which is why i said "summon pirates"
shut needle
active being you driving your silly little ship around and beating up rocks vs passively sitting down and generating currency
pirates would be interesting
open pier
Makes you either make a massive brick that can take it, and lose a ton of steel in the process, or actually force you to have two ships, which is so not required in vanilla.
shut needle
of course, that would open up the gates for a "mine a planet and then actually just farm pirates" sort of setup
open pier
You are actually penalized for having more than one ship, lmao
shut needle
why mine a planet when you can mine pirates? 🤷♂️
they'd have to be pretty scary pirates
like, real big ones
open pier
It's resource generation either way
I don't see a problem with it
It's mining, not exploration
shut needle
I would probably make it very expensive to start and simultaneously summon pirates
I could see this happening if cosmoteer ever gets to that multisystem self owned faction type game
open pier
The game needs endgame resource generation that isn't just "be a pirate and farm infinite traders lul"
shut needle
like what so many people have been thinking of
yeah it'd definitely have to be end game
open pier
Like, you can actually run out of resources in this game.
shut needle
funny how resources are finite, huh
i mean, resources are finite but we've probably got more uranium on earth than there is in the entirety of the cosmoteer galaxy
hot pilot
Might not always be mind you
shut needle
yeah
open pier
Believe it or not but resources in a star system are generally large enough that you can assume them to be, unless you're on a scale where you can create your own stars.
shut needle
nobody's mined out a whole galaxy yet but
open pier
...We have a ridiculous amount of uranium on Earth. Most of it is just too deep to actually mine
shut needle
yeah
open pier
But also, on the scale of this game, uranium reactors might as well be infinite power
hot pilot
At most mining planets would be a thing with owning a faction and be be early late game thing probably
open pier
I mean, mining under atmosphere probably requires ridiculous setup, i'm fine with it
Also it's much less ridiculous than mining stars for anything but helium.
open pier
No, protons are really easy to get, no need to go to a star for it.
hot pilot
To be fair there are barren and molten worlds in the game, so those could be higher resourse planets and likely don't have atmospheres are have very thin ones so
Would be easy
open pier
Molten worlds usually have extreme atmospheres
IRL
Think Earth thickness but Venus composition.
Sulphuric acid, all that fun stuff.
hot pilot
Huh I guess yea
Man look at that IRL already balancing planet mining lol
This is starting to get way off topic lol
open pier
I mean, even then, "mining" a star generally means setting up a scoop and eating up stellar wind, not actually dipping your toes into a million degree atmosphere.
Unless you actually somehow have materials that can survive being in the middle of a continuous thermonuclear explosion, lmao
hot pilot
Well stars in the game are quite weird as shields are strong enough to hold that off lol
open pier
You don't actually dip into a star, you're shielding yourself from the close range stellar wind
It... takes less than you think, though the force of the wind itself would be enough to actually push you out
(The wind is highly ionized and is very weak to magnetic forces.)
hot pilot
I know a little about stellar lifting, amd yea the winds are enough you can balance on them and need basically nothing to get pulled in
hidden valve
Not realistic....
hot pilot
?
hidden valve
Harvesting star is impossible
hidden valve
How ?
hot pilot
Stellar Lifing is a possibility
open pier
If you just want hydrogen and helium, it's very easy.
shut needle
stars shoot off bits of themselves all the time
hidden valve
Its a theory
shut needle
it's very much possible
hot pilot
Its a theory
So is gravity
hot pilot
You don't have to be that close
open pier
You're thinking wrong way.
shut needle
look. cosmoteer physics are screwy
hot pilot
You can be as close as mercury
shut needle
just pretend its fine
hidden valve
How so
open pier
Stars already eject enough mass to sustain a small intergalactic empire's energy needs.
shut needle
Drag in Space exists
hidden valve
shut needle
that's not how space works
ok
so don't worry about how possible it is
just consider if it is balanced or not
hot pilot
shut needle
if it feels right in the context of the game
hidden valve
Ofc not balanced
hot pilot
Starlifting
shut needle
Ofc not balanced
have you even considered
hidden valve
The resouce spill is huge
open pier
Fun fact, a MRI machine generates a magnetic field about ten times stronger than Earth.
shut needle
it should definitely be late mid - endgame stuff
hot pilot
Fun fact, a MRI machine generates a magnetic field about ten times stronger than...
10x???
open pier
You do not need much power to shield from solar wind.
hidden valve
Its not been tested yet how
hidden valve
Not trsted
hot pilot
Lol
hot pilot
Dyson swarms are very possible
shut needle
^
hot pilot
Math IS reality
hidden valve
But u want realism. ?
open pier
It's weaker. ;p
shut needle
it's just a set of satellites man. if you can get that power and move it off your satellite you're fine
hidden valve
Immortalisty is realistic then
hot pilot
I never said I wanted realism?
hidden valve
So is magic
shut needle
And nobody wants realism who said that
hot pilot
....
hidden valve
@shut needle like everybody
shut needle
we're playing space game with drag
hidden valve
Few weeks ago
hot pilot
Ok if your going to troll take up someone else's time
hidden valve
Mostly
shut needle
Sure buddy
hidden valve
Aw
hot pilot
Anyways, let's get back onto topic
hidden valve
So u beat all pirates and harvesting sun
Is there incentive for you go to high sector ?
I go high sec for looting
Mostly
hidden valve
hot pilot
Again, starlifing would be late game most likely
shut needle
what this would add is an incentive to go BACK
hidden valve
I find this an unlimited resource
shut needle
yes, resources become renewable
open pier
10x???
MRI usually have 10 Tesla magnets, which is actually a ridiculous amount of magnetic force.
Earth's magnetic field is about equal to a bar magnet of half a Tesla.
shut needle
is this a bad thing
not necessarily
depending on when you get it it can be bad
but if it's late game why not
hot pilot
Well of player made factions are a thing and you need to keep it running, now you have an easier way to gather those resources as you expand your faction
hidden valve
so unlimited resource on low level sector. When you lost you almost lost nothing
hidden valve
I can do mid game
hidden valve
Then
shut needle
can you get it mid game in our hypothetical scenario where you can only get it late game
open pier
Why are people so allergic to infinite resources in here?
hidden valve
This is about game balance though
In low sec its easy to eliminate all enemy
Then make star lifter
hot pilot
Why are people so allergic to infinite resources in here?
Cause people don't understand that the game is in early access and will change drastically as it develops
shut needle
Why are people so allergic to infinite resources in here?
tbf i was only against this depending on whether or not it could be pulled off in a fun way
hot pilot
Then make star lifter
Your making an assumption that you can just make it at the start of the game
shut needle
In low sec its easy to eliminate all enemy
i believe you missed this but the solution here was agreed upon to summon pirates
shut needle
Your making an assumption that you can just make it at the start of the game
i read this as in "make a starlifter in a cleared sector"
hidden valve
It must be heavily guarded
shut needle
which is a fair point
shut needle
It must be heavily guarded
naturally.
hidden valve
So pirate will hunt lifter
open pier
I mean, it's ridiculously easy to get money in this game, i don't see the problem with having a passive generator.
Like, actually ridiculously easy.
hidden valve
@open pier game must be made challanging otherwise its a sandbox. Thats a game design.
Therefore balance must exist
shut needle
this is true. it is agreed upon that balance does have a place in games
they're not saying that there should be no balance
open pier
The game does not have to be challenging.
shut needle
they're saying that there is precedence already in the cash generators
hidden valve
@open pier fun is subjective
shut needle
fun is subjective if you do not like the game you do not play it
open pier
Good, if you don't find a sandbox game to be fun, someone else will
shut needle
if it's generally agreed upon to be fun it is fun
please let us talk about this in peace
hidden valve
Smh
shut needle
don't call it not fun and refuse to hear us out
also there's already a difficulty slider
hot pilot
Also nothing says you HAVE to play that way...
shut needle
people play on the easiest difficulty
people also live to suffer
different playstyles
hidden valve
So why balance must exist ?
hidden valve
Nvm then
open pier
I'm a game dev of my own, and i've just found that people tend to assume that sandboxes are supposed to be more difficult than they actually are. You actually see it in suggestions to every sandbox.
hidden valve
open pier
And no, this game is not a hard sandbox where you need excuses to gain money. :p
shut needle
So why balance must exist ?
balance exists to make games fun :)
game too hard? make game easier
hidden valve
So. Wanna talk like circles again ?
shut needle
weapon too good and people die too much to it? nerf
hidden valve
We are going nowhere
hidden valve
So what level of pirate must spawn ?
hidden valve
Enough ?
shut needle
equivalent strength of highest sector
open pier
Max level of the system, lmao
hidden valve
Lol
open pier
No need to turn it into dark souls
hidden valve
Star lifter purpose is to spawn some dumb high level pirate so you can loot them.
shut needle
well at that point you'd have an ion prism mothership or two and you'd be wanting for resources
hidden valve
Call it soul lifter
shut needle
i mean
hidden valve
shut needle
would like, a marigold and a bottomfeeder really do anything to your planetary extraction system with 15 HE missile platforms
since it's most likely that you settle in the weakest systems...
hidden valve
Hard to balance is it m
shut needle
Not... Really....?
maximum level youve encountered.
or half
the rate can be adjusted if it's too rough to fight a mainship setup with platform defenses
hidden valve
For every what minutes ?
shut needle
idk we'd see what happens
it literally doesnt matter the rate of pirate generation
all that matters is if that's enough to pose a threat
if it is a proper threat we're all good
shut needle
well i was thinking of planetary mining
and planets aren't super close to the sun
and you'd have to pilot your ship anyways
which defeats the point of passive generation.
and if you can even push the ship
which is a pretty difficult thing to do even when your ship isn't very squishy and isn't built like a mainship
shut needle
well i was thinking of planetary mining
again since all you'd be getting from a star, for the most part, is hydrogen and helium and you can't build ships out of gas
hot pilot
You can get heavier atoms iirc like carbon I think when star lifting
hidden valve
That just money cheat
shut needle
fair enough but it's still going to be a majority of the light elements
hidden valve
If you get carbon
hot pilot
Plus if anything you'd want to feed the star hydrogen to keep it living longer
hidden valve
So if star doesnt live it explode m
shut needle
well no it'd never explode during the lifetime of the game
hot pilot
Over a trillion year life span sure
shut needle
That just money cheat
by the way supply and demand is going to be introduced to mitigate this exact issue
well
hidden valve
Hows that work i wonder
shut needle
yes
hidden valve
Having infinite diamonds
shut needle
yes
shut needle
infinite money but over time
shut needle
there's a big difference between getting billion dollars in one day and one dollar for a billion days....
you don't need to simulate galaxies
you can literally simulate random amounts of stuff disappearing from the system
it's just that simple
hidden valve
Not everything looks as simple a it is
shut needle
uh no this one is very simple
if you want a rudimentary supply and demand chain this is about as simple as it gets
of course there's probably also a bit of other stuff like simulating in sector ships and calculations between station inventories to get the total amount of crap in a sector but it's pretty much a bit more complex than what we've got now