reactors require fuel

[chilly crag]

this would mean you could theoretically soft-lock yourself

[cunning wasp]

please no

this would mean you would need so much more storage

and with how much energy is consumed by ANYTHING it would take far too much

[meager shadow]

bruh

[chilly crag]

as well as putting you on a timer, which can be very anxiety inducing

[cunning wasp]

it would be imposible to run any small ship or even big

small ships woulint even be able to run their own cockpit

[chilly crag]

the idea has been shot down by Walt before

[cunning wasp]

for good reason, it aint a good idea for cosmoteer with how its currently balanced with its storage/energy usage

[charred holly]

no, running out shows the game over screen, just like getting blown up

or maybe you put out a distress call or something and a civilian ship shows up to sell you some uranium

[cunning wasp]

n o

[charred holly]

yeah but it's a very very long timer

[charred holly]

again, very very long timer

[charred holly]

oh nevermind

i'll just make a mod for it or something

[cunning wasp]

that is such a horrible idea, have you playd the game?

it takes a LOT of energy to run thrusters or even control rooms especialy if your traveling large distances in career mode in 8x speed

[cunning wasp]

how are you even goign to balance it?

[charred holly]

if it's bad i can just make it more effiecient

with more power per uranium

[lyric galleon]

how long have you played this game?

[cunning wasp]

it takes sooooo much energy to run thrusters it would be impossible to only carry uranium to only fuel your ship for 2min at 8x speed and thats without using shields/energy based weapons

what so 1 uranium makes 1000 worth of power cells

[chilly crag]

no need to make personal attacks

[cunning wasp]

otherwise the game is unplayable

[charred holly]

the full release 45 hours
classic idk a few years

[cunning wasp]

i have played for over 3000h since i playd this game consistantly since 2016/2017

[chilly crag]

btw I believe there's already a mod for that

[lyric galleon]

I asked as a genuine question, I didn't mean it as a personal attack.

[charred holly]

maybe i could also make thrusters more power effiecient idk

[cunning wasp]

= / sounds VERRY difficult

[chilly crag]

Applies mostly to dethstrider

[cunning wasp]

i wish you good luck with balancing

[lyric galleon]

Just what you're suggesting require rebalancing the game from the ground up.

[charred holly]

probably yes

[lyric galleon]

By the end of it it probably would be a different game...

[charred holly]

but that might be half the fun

[chilly crag]

maybe that was in the demo and the author hasn't bothered to upload it again, i can't seem to find it

[charred holly]

the rebalancing, not the different game

[lyric galleon]

ok, maybe that last statement was a bit of a hyperbole

[charred holly]

the different game might also be fun tho

[cunning wasp]

understandable i was being a tad bit agressive since my brain can not prosses how it would be possible with the current state of the game

[lyric galleon]

In my mind it wouldn't

it's creating a problem to solve it, not good game design in my opinion.

[cunning wasp]

similar opinion here but everyone has their own opinion

[charred holly]

i saw how there's limited bullets now and i thought it might be cool to do that with everything else too

[cunning wasp]

i mean if they want to remake the entire game and play it only for themselves and others who downlaod their mod its not hurrting anyone and if they enjoy its fine

[lyric galleon]

I'm not trying to be toxic or anything

[charred holly]

you aren't dw

[cunning wasp]

just being added to the vanila game would probubly make most if not ALL players quit the game

instantly

[charred holly]

ok well thanks for the feedback

[cunning wasp]

you would either need to make 1 uranium make 1000 cells

[charred holly]

what are the customs here for finished threads

[cunning wasp]

or reblance energy

[charred holly]

both probably

[charred holly]

should i leave it up or delete it or what

[lyric galleon]

yeah, you would have to rebalance most if not all rooms in the game to account for this, or have a single barrel of enriched uranium produced so many batteries that it's like the system doesn't really exist.

[cunning wasp]

if you want suggestions to be given for your mod then asks in modding

but yea probubly close this?

[charred holly]

ok

any last thoughts before this is gone?

[lyric galleon]

I see it as a good idea to always ask the question of "what if we added a new system", just adding something is not always a good idea...

[cunning wasp]

good luck

[charred holly]

thanks

[lyric galleon]

same

[charred holly]

how do i delete it

[cunning wasp]

top right tripple dots delete message

[charred holly]

yeah it's still here

[cunning wasp]

i meant tripple dots close post

monkey brain not activated

[chilly crag]

you can't delete posts entirely

[cunning wasp]

in the top right next to search

?

huh

weird

[charred holly]

ok well this is here now i guess

[lyric galleon]

Seems like it deleted the original post, not the thread

[charred holly]

it does seem like that yes

[polar briar]

you can close the thread by right clicking

[tepid timber]

100% reactors need to require fuel. Let them operate at 25% or so without fuel. As it stands all the "economy" adds is making it beyond annoying to use ammo/missile based weapons over an Ion + disruptors. Energy based weapons just get a free pass from the economy.

[cunning wasp]

while this is true energy is required for more then just weapons which would make powering thrustrs super annoying and powering armoured shields impossible

[glacial panther]

this would mean basically every ship in the game right now would need to be redesigned to account for fuel storage and loading crew.

[tepid timber]

Then it would be best to start now. :P

And not put it off.

I'd also argue this means energy weapons need to be using more energy than they currently do.

[glacial panther]

reactors and ions are balanced around being expensive. that's not a free pass, this isn't a necessary change and definitely not warranting forcing a redesign of every ship in the game

[tepid timber]

You mean like they did with the ammo changes?

But didn't touch energy weapons?

Ever try using nukes?

You can fire an ion deathbeam forever for the cost for a few volleys of nukes.

[cunning wasp]

game has been developed for over 7 years i think i highly doub this main mechanic which most of the ships systems is based on will just be fucked over like this making them have to redo everything also walt denied this so as sead in the post already you have to mod it in yourself

[glacial panther]

nukes are strong

[tepid timber]

SO are ions.

Cept ions are cheaper.

[cunning wasp]

not cheap also they take a lot of room to get powerfull ion lasers and efficient always firing lasers

[tepid timber]

There is room... and then there is a giant empty space with a few structures and crystals

I always feel like these discussions come down to "don't nerf mah laser"

[cunning wasp]

assuming your basing your entire build off of ions or just having verry weak ions or having a ginormous capital ship

[cunning wasp]

= / i feel its balanced oviously with cost, space, having to make most of your ship design into prism efficency room if you want a big laser and efficiency

[tepid timber]

ANyway my point stands, no point in discussing it further. Our views won't change.

[cunning wasp]

this is true

[fiery heart]

NO

PLEASE

I BEG YOU

DO NOT DO THIS

DO NOT

DO NOT

DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE

[glacial panther]

testing some things now, gimme a bit

[void niche]

To balance the force we obviously need a energy to matter converter. Then we can build infinite nukes from the infinite energy reactors provide.

[willow pivot]

a fuel useing reactor as a super reactor might be neat but definitely not the normal ones

[willow pivot]

infinite moniez

[glacial panther]

@tepid timber disregarding crew, this isn't true

not counting crew because i don't have all day to test and optimize slimming down crew,

the ions+reactors+prisms cost 465k

the cost of the 15 nukes is either 6.48k if crafted parts are bought from a station, or 1.62k from raw resources using a factory. 1 nuke factory makes .11 nukes/s and they can fire at .1/s, so it's ~1:1 not factoring neighbor bonuses. 5 factories would cost 150k and the launchers are 50k.
the time to finish was ~22sec for the nukes, so that means it costs 4.4k/min to fire 5 nukes constantly.

465k for an ion setup of equal power to 200k in nuke setup that costs 4.4k/min to fire doesn't look unbalanced.

[glacial panther]

nukes don't cost nearly as much as you're portraying them

[tepid timber]

Slap 4 flaks on that block of metal and tell me how equal it is again.

[glacial panther]

i've closed the game already but to that i'd say slap some shields on the ion's target

[tepid timber]

Then slap 12k worth of disrupters on that ion.

and the nuke boat

[glacial panther]

then slap some rails and take out the flak, etc. etc. this will keep devolving cause cosmoteer isn't a 1 dimensional game. but ammo weapons aren't underpowered

[tepid timber]

Sure if you only ever plan to blow up one chunk of metal

Now go clear 50 systems

[glacial panther]

why does that matter?

[tepid timber]

Why does it not?

One has a constant cost increase

The other doesn't.

[glacial panther]

oh you're talking about time

so how long does the average battle last?

[tepid timber]

It's an investment. One devalues over time.

Also that same ion setup gets what 60% stronger if you split it into 2 beams?

errm 33% sorry

and you can't just flak the ion into uselessness so you end up firing way more nukes

[glacial panther]

again, how long does the average battle last? it would take an hour of constant firing to reach that 465k cost

[tepid timber]

so if every other nuke is getting shot down even... and you split that beam.. now we're looking at what?

1.33x the ion damage half the nuke damage?

Gonna start getting expensive MUCH faster than that test.

[glacial panther]

separated ions wouldn't be as concentrated and have to go through more

[ripe leaf]

the biggest problem is that it just adds a timer

cosmoteer is a creative game and u should be allowed to take ur time and do stuff at ur pace

even for "timed" missions u can just do them later

[tepid timber]

You'll be able to focus fire 2 ion beams a hell of a lot more than you would 5 nukes in a real gameplay situation.

[void niche]

There are simple ways to make this more "realistic" without adding pressure on the player. For example fuel could only be necessary for medium and huge reactors. For example those reactors could still operate at 50% output without fuel.

[mental ember]

If laser able to fire continously is the issue then make laser eat resources, and even then lasers do so less damage compared to their ammo and missile based counter part

[void niche]

Or even better add a new reactor building - the "fast burner reactor" - which needs fuel, but outputs considerable more power. then increase the power consumption of some of the bigger lasers.

[tepid timber]

Also to nitpick a bit you've got 4 extra prisms in that setup. I'd also be curious as to crew requirements on those nukes if you're actually making your own. At 4.4k a minute it's only going to take 56 minutes of combat for those nukes to pass up the price of the Ion.

Assuming not a single nuke ever gets shot down. Figuring half of them probably will on a 5 nuke setup you'd need to fire and extra 2 or 3 to get the effect you are in that test.

Increasing that nuke setup to 7 or 8 at a cost of 280k to 320k....then shoot 6.2k to 7k a minute worth of nukes to get comparable damage... now you are looking at only 18 to 27 to minutes of combat before the nukes start costing you more. After an hour of combat you are well in the hole.

Final realistic total after 1 hour of combat. Ion 445k. Nukes 652k-720k.

And even this is assuming frontally launched nukes that are harder to defend, and them not making contact with random pointy bits, or large shields.

[ocean torrent]

its gonna mean, that you can destroy storages of fuel, and just run from enemy

[mental ember]

Also what kind of nuclear reactor eats fuel like its a wood powered steam machine

[ocean torrent]

yeah

I think there can be fuel that upgrades reactor for like 5 minutes

that gonna give abillity to upgrade ships energy

like upgrading fighters

and helping big ships with upgrading reactors that helps weapons in big range from middle reactor

[tepid timber]

Probably the same kind that requires humans to carry batteries around, or the type of space you can't go faster than 200m/s in, or the kind where you can make ammunition out of just sulfur., or the kind where giant crystals rotate on psychic power., or failing that the non radioactive kind, or perhaps the kind where nukes are assembled on the spot by 6 dudes with their bare hands into the rough shape of a minivan and have an explosive radius of a swimming pool.

If you think reactors burning fuel would be the only nonsensical thing, I hate to break it to you, but it ain't.

[glacial panther]

1:1 nuke production with factories is just impractical. those factories are huge and expensive you're meant to make them before battle and store the parts

not really sure why i calculated them like that as if they were cannons

[blazing rapids]

Why Is this this still going on when the original post has been deleted? Lol

[tepid timber]

Probably because discord has crappy forums :P

[blazing rapids]

Probaby, wonder if I can make forum posts read only

Nope, just a 6h slow reply mode or delete it outright

Kinda lame

Well let's just leave this topic here, no need to keep it alive. Thanks

[charred holly]

i like this idea

[charred holly]

also this one

thanks for the feedback 👍

[charred holly]

actually i kind of don't like this one

or maybe i like the idea but don't like the person saying it