#gameplay is flat

65 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

hexed pulsar
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when you finish all the quests in the first system, kill all pirates, mines resources, made a beautiful medium-sized ship etc, you go in another system, and... deception, it's exactly the same quests and gameplay loops, nothing new, any new buyable tech, any new quest type, just all the same in bigger

scenic briar
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What would you like to see then? I myself suggested system-wide combat (#1029979464551108679 message) but if you have different ideas by all means share them

hexed pulsar
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I think more about something like :

  • you can't buy all tech in the same station
  • some resources don't exist in certain systems, and other resources are in high quantity
  • you don't have the "destroy the enemy station" in the first system, but later with more fame maybe
  • you have more quests variety, like escort, more exploration-based missions, more cargo-based missions (like one where you have to pass from one station to another, with dangerous things in the path), etc... AND all that missions are different from one system to another
sonic gyro
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Do remember the game is going into early access so yea there's not going to be everything possible right off the bat, things will be added as updates come out

scenic briar
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I had the idea awhile back to faction-lock certain blueprints (large shields and ions to the cabal, deck cannons and railguns to the monolith, missile launcher to the imperium) but I don't necessarily know if that's a good idea as much as it is obnoxious either

hexed pulsar
hexed pulsar
scenic briar
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Outright rarity is somewhat questionable too, I remember having to scour half the galaxy in SPAZ (if you're familiar) to find specific blueprints

sonic gyro
hexed pulsar
sonic gyro
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Yea there definitely Is more fleshing out to be made

hexed pulsar
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so mid/late gameplay could be great, like a future update about creating your one faction, and making war with other faction in large scalled war, or just be hired as a mercenary to take part as a soldier in the war with specific missions like emissary, war cargo, espionage or skirmish

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you can do a lot of things with this base game, and i want to see more gameplay loops, more possibilities, more variety in systems !

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just the last point could be enough for now

regal raptor
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hey! what if, what if we’re only allowed to buy 2 blueprints per station? It makes the decision become much more costly, whether to buy more weapons or more thrusters, and vice versa. Upside is more creativity with starter stuff. Downside is that, on top of crew count, we’re limited by yet another factor on progression. And things like missiles might need multiple stations before players can fully use them.

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A balance towards that could be to have research points available per station, and different factions + faction alignment allow for discounts/increases on research point costs. And also base equipment (ie shields and standard thruster) cost 0.5 points by default. For example, ion emitters cost 1 research point by default. Cabal stations provide 30% discount on energy-related stuff, and 50% price increase on cannon-based weapons. An allied cabal station would cost 0.5 research points (and blueprint costs) to unlock ion emitters, from 30% cabal discount and 20% allegiance discount

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We could make the 2 discount percentages multiplicative too, but I think I like whole numbers better for additive discounts.

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or whole-r numbers. 0.56 research points is just a weird number to be on.

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We gain them by visiting stations, and keep the points maybe? or else we can’t have high RP cost blueprints unless we increase the number of RP per station as we proceed through the galaxy. Which also works. What to do with RP after unlocking all blueprints is also something to think about perhaps.

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Ok, maybe this still doesn’t affect the core gameplay loop. I definitely agree that variety would be nice. Currently all missions are to “destroy x” and salvage, come back and “destroy a harder enemy y”. Nothing wrong about it for me personally, but yeah having more options could be cool.

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Endless horde mode?

The last stand, where you get a budget of a few sizes. $500k for featherweight. $1mil, $1.5mil, $2mil, $3mil, uncapped for other weight categories. Ships of one faction type from tier 1-10 come at you in waves of 1, 2, 3 ships per wave. All debris and freefloating crew are cleared between waves. Gamemode ends when a large station you defend is destroyed, or when all ships die. Points are calculated by credit costs of defeated ships, and repairs are possible between waves. Salvaging is off, so everything behaves like “I hate salvaging” is turned on. Costs still apply to restocking ammo though, and deficits aren’t possible.

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Of course co-op would also be needed too!

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and once all 18 difficulty levels are cleared, the game starts going into ascended difficulty, where you face an additional faction’s worth of enemies starting at level 10. ie after defeating 3x Sol Imperiums, you get to fight at level 10 again, this time facing Sol enemies and Monolith enemies at the same time. The end for that would be to fight 3x Sol Imperiums and 3x Arbalests at the same time. And the final true ending would be fighting 4 factions at the same time, so 12x 2.5mil capital ships on screen pretty much.

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I think having a defense target adds to the stakes, and also forces a different non-meta style of playing. Cuz otherwise kiting everything to death would be the general strategy. Having a probably-impossible true-end for most weight categories would also mean that there’s a pretty darn high ceiling that won’t be conquered for at least a few months. Replayability!

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Storylines or decisions would also improve the replayability of the game (though for myself I’m pretty satisfied with the system as-is too). FTL for comparison has pretty much the same game loop: go through galaxy sectors, fight ships, fight a boss. In comparison, they differ on one part: randomized parts of storyline that make an impact to the playthrough. You can lose a crewmember to a poorly-chosen event. And the loss is dearly felt sometimes; you’ll know pain when you lose a fully-trained mantis warrior to a stupid alien spider. Losing the mantis would also mean your FTL ship won’t be able to steamroll a lot of the next boarding sorties.

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Which makes me think of another point of difference as well, which might contribute to FTL’s longevity: there are different ways to kill a ship there.

There’s O2 kill where you disable a ship’s oxygen capabilities and everyone suffocates, there’s a fire beam that can allow the enemy ship to go up in flames if they aren’t shielded, there’s mind control that can be used to control strategic enemy crew if necessary, there’s boarding, there’s boarding with drones, there’s a bio beam that straight up kills crew (but is rarely if ever used). Lots of options.

In cosmoteer we have a lot of weapon varieties, and that’s the main selling point. Pretty dope still in my opinion, but there’s definitely room for growth if we look for that.

scenic briar
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FTL and Cosmoteer are fundamentally entirely different games with different core loops. A comparison for mechanics is iffy

regal raptor
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Sorry I type a lot! In summary of what I said:

  • last stand mode
  • research points
  • more ship killing methods or gameplay variety
regal raptor
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Though yeah Cosmoteer is pree darn unique in its own way too. I’m pretty satisfied with game mechanics as-is, just to clarify

sonic gyro
spice ermine
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honestly i personally think that theres an inherent lack of like, specialization

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cosmoteers vehicle building is fun and satisfying, cause its simple while being complex

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its exploration isnt the worst to be fair, there are points of interest and stuff i guess

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diplomacy is cursory at best

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there arent really any small storylines so far where you really get to know people

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trading feels like a rudimentary mechanic

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in general there feels to be a lack of a functional niche that really sets the game apart; while its fun to play, it just feels kinda flat

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no pun intended

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terratech for example has pretty nice graphics, an absurd different number of types of vehicles you can construct, and fun exploration

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ftd has incredibly complex and fine-tunable building, you can literally make anything if you are good enough at the game

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avorion has awesome exploration, and a pretty great mission system, trading is also fun cause markets are really intricately designed. plus the 3d space exploration and combat is really disorienting sometimes in a good way

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starsector has an immersive world with an absurd amount of worldbuilding, and the sense of eldritch horrors lying at the edges of space is pervasive and adds a lot to the world. combat is satisfying and ship customization supports the core gameplay

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cosmoteer's exploration is passable, diplomacy isnt very intricate at all, the worldbuilding feels like only a vehicle for the ships, trading is only really good for making money from selling stuff or obtaining a resource by buying stuff, and shipbuilding is great but i dont really think its enough to actually define the game at the end of the day

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i think that there is a sort of lacking defining factor

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absurdly large scale-battles where you can collaborate with and against factions, privateering, different professions you can take up like cargo hauling, pirating, combat, corporate bodyguarding, etc could really help differentiate runs and stuff

sonic gyro
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yes and after the release of Early Access there will be 100's of thousands of updates to come that will flesh out the game, so best thing to do is share your idea be either supporting other threads and sharing your ideas in there, or if you have your own idea add your own

scenic briar
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(Plus the progress Walt has made has been by himself. The Dev team has been massively increased and updates should presumably be more efficient and streamlined)

spice ermine
sonic gyro
# spice ermine ok?

idk might have been reading into it too much as it seems like you might be a little upset there not fully fleshed out parts like those in the game yet lol

spice ermine
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im not upset

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im just pointing out why gameplay might feel flat

hexed pulsar
regal raptor
# hexed pulsar The last stand mod is a good idea but don't correct my problem, however, researc...

Ay thanks! Yeah I think the appeal for Cosmoteer is fighting bigger and badder ships, though defeating the ships is more or less the same ways once we got something figured out. A balance between steamrolling everything and making every fight precariously difficult is pretty hard to achieve, and the after-fight salvage usually takes up more of my time than needed. Maybe, the game loop can be slightly sped up if crew destroys ships (for salavage) faster based on fame? It’d make bigger wrecks more scalable, since we don’t have to strictly turn on 4/8x for a few minutes while everyone gets busy breaking stuff apart.

Other than that, yeah more quest varieties, quest types introduced past a certain star system, and career endgame material would be dope to have. Cosmoteer career is already taking me 100+ hours for one playthrough though, so at least that’s a good sign that it’ll take a slowish guy plenty of time to savor the progression.

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Maybe more types of questing could include: mining/trading quests (as mentioned earlier by others), and story-rich components that don’t constrain which star sector the player heads towards. (Or constrains it, either works!) Having pacifist runs like that can definitely spice things up, what with the much-larger pirates and enemies than a quest-driven player’s size. More lore, non-repetitive random events, and basically things that can be prepped for by someone knowledgeable, all those can be good to ensure great replayability and level progression

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I’m also spitballing here, pretty sure there’s someone out there with a vid or three on how to best ensure great game replayability out there

hexed pulsar
regal raptor
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mm! fair too

hexed pulsar
regal raptor
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I mean yeah that’s fair, but then cosmoteer turns into a bit of a stealth game which is also a whole new way of playing. If some rewards are given out in resources/rare once-in-a-playthrough special items/structures, then the player also has to consider how big they’d allow their ship to get before they lose out too much on speed. It’d probably make for quite some interesting opportunistic kills from a speedy ship, if the sensors say that I can outrange and snipe a particular ship or need to avoid that fight.

Maybe a rogue’s sensor attribute could help, where you gain 15% sensor/viewing range in a sector until the first shot is fired. Then it resets for the next unique sector you travel to

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Also something good to have: deployable decoys! Attracts ships within a 1200-1800 meter range. I sometimes use my own ships for that purpose, but it’d be nice for an enemy to check out a spot before I have it in range. That gives me a brief window to be at a positioning advantage, and can especially help too with a stealth run. Might help too much though if it allows excessive fleeing. Gonna put this down as an idea actually

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written as #1032005516580368395, feel free to check it out if you’d like!

keen sparrow
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there can be also distinct prices/quantities for goods, that way I can play as a merchant.

hexed pulsar