Tournament Chat

[white apex]

4 winners

[granite river]

i am gonna lose so much sleep from optimizing next week

[hollow socket]

Air will give us a 512 ion core to have to optimise

[white apex]

you have an entire week D: i made it async and long time specifically so ppl don't do that

[granite river]

True dat

[spring fable]

i dont really care...

as long as it looks paintable?

[hybrid holly]

@white apex You rolled 3

[white apex]

crew

[spring fable]

.

[hollow socket]

It's going to be like 10 parts

[white apex]

btw there will be 3 ships

[spring fable]

yeah can look paintable

[young jacinth]

So your ship has to be optimised for all 3 at the same time?

You dont submit 3 separate ones?

[white apex]

yep

you can try to win 1 category though

[young jacinth]

Thats a bit weird

[white apex]

if it was not like that, 1 person would win the whole thing and noobs would be last in every category

[granite river]

Additional challenge for avid optimizers too :P

[young jacinth]

Yea but with this rule set its a bit luck depended if you actually win

[granite river]

I like the format

[hollow socket]

Just make the ship optimised for all 3 ships at once

[white apex]

not really? just optimize only crew and ignore everything else. if u r really the best at optimziing for crew, u will win the crew category.

[young jacinth]

I meant that over all is luck dependant

Even if you have perfect knowlege of what the optimal setups are they wont overlap in all 3 categories

[white apex]

that's the point? unless i m misunderstanding u

[young jacinth]

I just think its weird to have a luck factor in an optimisation tournament

[white apex]

the only luck is that crew spawning and task selection is random

play the metagame and optimize your optimizations

but yeah "overall" is a bit luck based because you don't know how skilled your opponents are, or what category(ies?) they are trying to win

[young jacinth]

thats what i meant

[white apex]

if u have suggestions on how to make it not luck based, lmk

[young jacinth]

I mean I would just allow players to submit 3 ships in every phase. That would remove any luck factor but I get that that would be more work and more complicated so idk if it would be a good call

Would be preferred by me

[white apex]

that has bigger issues imo

[young jacinth]

like what?

[white apex]

1 person can win every category, which i do not want

it also triples the amount of time i have to spend, and idk how many ppl will sign up

[hollow socket]

Imagine if 60 players sign up

[white apex]

i like the "choose which category you want to win" but that is personal preferences

[white apex]

yippee but i would also need to automate the score spreadsheet

[hollow socket]

Then imagine if all 60 players submit 3 designs

[young jacinth]

Shouldnt we just remove the over all category if you want them to be separate anyways?

[white apex]

adds more depth imo

[young jacinth]

@white apex do the ships get released after the event?

[white apex]

yep

[young jacinth]

Nice! I would include that in the description

[white apex]

the .rec files for the game i had for grading each ship will also be public

[desert sky]

#events message
my god i thought you were trolling

atleast we got another tournament host i won't complain

[worldly kiln]

do note Air is not the Official Tournament host, just gave them them the role temperately for their event

[snow seal]

@white apex why are the phases not all at once?

[white apex]

1 week per thing

more epic announcements

and when i was planning it, i was not thinking super hard and was going to have the winners of previous phases be featured in future ones

example: phase 1 is shields, phase 2 is stuff that can break the shield, stuff like that

i have realized that that was a pretty awful idea

[fast oracle]

I don't understand this tourney

why can't we build an alpha rail full of operators and win

[white apex]

no pvp

u build ship -> i test it in a way that favors certain parts -> you get score based off how good u did and how much it costs/crew count/mass

i think i will make sign ups end at the end of phase 1 so u can read the rules for that

[fast oracle]

but how is that score calculated

[white apex]

to be revealed

[fast oracle]

it's hard to calculate that score in a fair way

[white apex]

yeah

[upbeat ridge]

not giving the simulator, it can't do the score for logistics quite yet~

[shrewd imp]

I don’t really understand the tournament.
Are we just making ships that can kill bigger ships with the least cost/crew/mass?

[young jacinth]

From what I understand you get points for the objective and points for your optimisations. It will probably get clearer once the first phase starts

[shrewd imp]

Ah I see, so your ship does objective, whoever’s does it in the most optimised way wins said category etc. thanks :)

So like a minimalist tourney

[granite river]

raw performance per unit optimization

[shrewd imp]

o_O

[upbeat ridge]

heh

[white apex]

for example: phase 1 will be about shields. more dps/sec = more points but more cost/crew/mass = less points

[hollow socket]

You get the most points by having the least cost

[white apex]

no

[hollow socket]

So you can technically win by submitting a 1x1 structure square?

[white apex]

if u cost 2x more but 3x better u will get more

[white apex]

no because 0/25=0

[hollow socket]

Smallest mass and cost and crew size

[hard rover]

doesn't do anything though

[upbeat ridge]

ah, the empty ship

[hollow socket]

The most crew optimised ship is an Alpha

[white apex]

then u lose every other category

[hollow socket]

Yet you win 1/4 categories

[white apex]

you can try lol

[gilded spindle]

This tournament is too convoluted for my taste

[upbeat ridge]

you're lucky there aren't any CNNs involved

[gilded spindle]

CNN?

[upbeat ridge]

convolutional neural network

[gilded spindle]

This isn't a tournament about making cosmoteer turing complete

[upbeat ridge]

bbp already did that with ion beams

[gilded spindle]

'-'

okay

[granite river]

oh yeah couldn't ion beams be used to make some sort of logic system?

because float abuse could let you split them

[gilded spindle]

bbp did that too

They used armour blocks to set the output afaik

[upbeat ridge]

their best gates were reusable btw

[granite river]

come to think of it, it doesn't seem like these would be too hard to make

but a little annoying granted

[white apex]

how so?

[gilded spindle]

having three deadlines with 3 scoring systems that I cant understand in a glance

[white apex]

i see

i wanted to make it so there is a category for experienced players and a category for less experienced players, without explicitly making categories for experienced/inexperienced players

[granite river]

your score = # of players - your rank + 1

[white apex]

remove the parenthesis

parentheses

[granite river]

weh

same result

oh wait no

i'm a dumb

[white apex]

score = players - (rank + 1)
score = 1 - (1 + 1)
score = -1(?)

[granite river]

yea i had brain lag

should've been
# of players - (your rank - 1)

[white apex]

yep

[surreal pecan]

Oh my, already 6 signer uppers in the unnoficial tournament? Impressive I shall say, this might be a bigger deal than I thought 👍

[white apex]

u can sign up too yk

[surreal pecan]

I suppose it's less of a tryhard's commitment as it just takes building a ship and submitting (If I read it correctly).

[white apex]

*3 ships over 3 weeks

i would not recommend reusing the same ship

also it is not possible to choke

unless all of your crew spawn in the corner or something

[hollow socket]

just have no crew at all

[white apex]

how r u going to do anything

[hard rover]

tera when will you stop assuming not having anything = highest score

all of this could just be solved by requiring the ships to be controllable

[white apex]

well they don't

but good luck getting non0 score

u r welcome to sign up and try to win the crew category

[surreal pecan]

Tera is an enigma, he has already invented a creweless control room and wireless energy transfer in vanilla Cosmoteer and is now messing with all of us.

[white apex]

if they get a score >0 and has 0 crew then i will count it as a win

[surreal pecan]

Actually having 2 crew and and alpha ship might be able to win you a category or two.

Like sun contest might be won by an alpha boost no shield armored ship.

[white apex]

4 crew w/ ok regen will get more than 2x as far i think

[granite river]

Might I point out that any test that needs a module to last more than 90 seconds basically cannot make use of shields b/c shield decay

If it's full alpha

[surreal pecan]

BUT, it'll also use twice the crew.

[white apex]

still net score gain

if everyone makes alpha ships i'll change the rules for next contest

[granite river]

I hope alpha is not meta ._.

[white apex]

alpha should be meta in comp ngl

fights tend not to last long enough to warrant sustain anyways

[granite river]

Eh I guess

It's just unsatisfying ._.

[white apex]

havign 3x more gun is not sstisfyin?

[surreal pecan]

I always wanted Alpha to be meta .-.

[white apex]

i m just hoping this will possibly solve the 3:1 vs 2:1 debate

but now that i look at it, it will probably not

[surreal pecan]

Your nonsensical and theoretical 3:1 argument is unbelievably hard to make work in practice.

Like how would you power this so it's more cost-dps efficient than even say a 4:1 with 3 prisms.

How would you implement it in a larger design utilizing a large reactor? Like this? Ew.

[white apex]

just have 3 lr

and build the rest of the ship too

[torpid jacinth]

Just don't make a 3:1

[white apex]

core could be better but it gets the point across

[surreal pecan]

Not a bad proof of concept but I am still very skeptical.

[granite river]

[surreal pecan]

Lmao how did I not notice that 💀

[inland lagoon]

champion moment

[granite river]

I hope we get some new actually useful modules out of this tourney

[white apex]

probably not :( if that were the case, ppl would just reuse their old stuff

[white apex]

@sullen plover #tournament-announcements

actual details for 1/3 of the tournament will be revealed on dec 3

as in, scoring and stuff like that

[sullen plover]

Ah, thank you, but I meant like, how do I submit my ship, etc.

(New to discord events of any kind, especially tournaments)

[white apex]

for this one, u just dm them to me

[sullen plover]

Ah, okay

[white apex]

for a lot of other pvp tournaments, you don't ever need to worry about that stuff

[sullen plover]

Thank you. Is there minimum requirements for a ship? Like size

[timid current]

i don't think there will be for this one

i haven't seen the rules yet, but from the talk here it seems it'll likely be more of a module-designing contest than an entire ship designing contest

ofc it very much depends on what the rules end up being like, i.e. if air forces us to have thrusters or control rooms on our ships

this is a highly unusual tourney and the first of its kind

[white apex]

0 (unless you are teratron, who can apparently make 0 crew ships work)

[sullen plover]

Wow

I'll be submitting my ~$133k railgun vessel

[white apex]

there's going to be different scoring criteria for each part

i doubt a ship not specifically built for the event will score very well

[sullen plover]

I'll have to wait to see what the requirements are then

[white apex]

@raven fern why not just have the mod on steam workshop?

[raven fern]

Because it's not ready yet

[short tartan]

i highly recommend playing at 1/2 speed as we are essentially racing UL squibs

piloting is going to be hard enough as it is

[hybrid holly]

What is your prefered game speed for the racing tournament

1️⃣ x1

2️⃣ x1/2

Poll by blaze580 · Nov 29, 2023, 2:44 AM

Poll created.

[short tartan]

and I can make a starting system that doesn't require VC

[raven fern]

Such as?

[short tartan]

lights

[white apex]

that will be lag dependant

wait

just have a logic powered light system w/ a death beam that turns off

or like an ion capacitor

[short tartan]

@raven fern starting sequence is turning the lights on one at a time (hotkeys 1-3) and then waiting a short period of time (2-3 seconds) and then turning them all off using hotkey 4

[short tartan]

that could work too

[white apex]

ion capacitor

it runs the same for everyone

and it has consistent timing

hotkeys have human error

also u can compensate for lag w/ capacitor

[short tartan]

thats the point of them, random timing to prevent jump starts by preventing ppl from starting right as the lights go out

[white apex]

why would u not

[short tartan]

idk its how most irl race series do it eccept they do it algorithmicly

[raven fern]

I'll be switching the state of the finish line from solid to ghost at the end of the countdown to prevent jump starts. Adding lights or capacitors adds a risk for error when I can just toggle the state once I say "go"

[white apex]

but that is less consistent and is more affected by lag

[surreal pecan]

Holy heck the moment official tournaments stop existing unofficial tourneys started popping up like crazy, Saris leaving was a catalyst you guys.

Exciting stuff, but I feel like actual official tournaments will be a bit lacking.

[young jacinth]

So ramping up the thrust is allowed? Id mention that in the document as it could make a massive difference.

[shrewd imp]

Blaze, regarding ship colours do they have to be solid of your chosen colour or just have it somewhere on the ship that is visible?

[vocal cloak]

@raven fern can we paint our ships or is it only basepaint one of the 4 colors?

[vocal cloak]

also another question it says max is 15x15

is the thruster tip counted as a block or no

[desert sky]

• 15x15 maximum size (including thruster cones)

i guess so -- deadzone don't seem to count

[fast oracle]

I'd say you probably want to be as small as possible

I'm going for 10 tiles wide

[short tartan]

personally I think shrinking vertically is great

but horizontally you want wide

[fast oracle]

you want to be roundish to be holonomic

[short tartan]

I've got a ship that hits about 190 and handles pretty well

[hard rover]

hmm i wonder if i can get away with a permathrust setup

[short tartan]

I think handling is going to be more important then raw top speed

[hard rover]

turning with boosters, might be too big though

[fast oracle]

I thought about a huge thruster but i think it's worse

[short tartan]

I'm using 5

[fast oracle]

5 huges? scary

[hard rover]

perma thrust huge for speed and boost or larges for turning

[fast oracle]

I'm not sure how many curves it will have

I'm assuming a lot

[hard rover]

can't you use like 3 with an er to go 190m/s?

[hard rover]

same

one problem with perma thrust is control

[short tartan]

....maybe

[hard rover]

this isn't really efficient but it can go 190m/s

it might be faster actually

[short tartan]

mine is 2 ER, 5 huge and two cr

keeping the com in the middle is gonna be important for max thrust

[hard rover]

you have alot more turning thrust i'm assuming

[short tartan]

nope not really

4 2 ways total

[hard rover]

#546321242471530506 message

this is pretty centered

although center of mass has to be with the center of thrust iirc

[short tartan]

alr

[fast oracle]

it's obviously perfect, it's perfectly symmetrical

[hard rover]

center of thrust too far back

[short tartan]

there aren't that many straight sections on most of the tracks (mine at least) so idk if raw speed is super important

the one where it was did get chosen

so I'll share it in a bit as a test track

[young jacinth]

why is the max 15? Makes it much harder to be symmetrical 😦

[hard rover]

make a ship turn so fast it only needs one turning direction

this thing's real fast

also don't use medium crs they're 1 tonne heavier than 2 small ones

[young jacinth]

I feel like every single ship is gonna be the same lol

[hard rover]

not much you can optimise on a ship this small

[young jacinth]

Exactly

[young jacinth]

I really hope https://discord.com/channels/314103695568666625/1176576595188785212 gets fixed or I just wont take the risk of making sharp turns lol

[young jacinth]

There is only one solution:

[hard rover]

or just set face cursor to a button

toggling it off and on resets offsets

[young jacinth]

Too inconsistent

[granite river]

Takes like 0.2 sec even with perfect execution

Which will cause you to crash

[vocal cloak]

best thing you can do is throw your cursor across the screen

[young jacinth]

Well yea

But it doesnt nearly have the same effect

[white apex]

just learn to dc squibs

[granite river]

Can confirm

I do this in elims

It’s painful

[tulip monolith]

ok, so this is the raceing chat?

[young jacinth]

partly yes

[tulip monolith]

i haves my ship done

cold front

[hard rover]

how fast

looks slow

[tulip monolith]

over 100 without boost

[granite river]

How much over 100

[tulip monolith]

last i cheked anyway

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[granite river]

100 is going to be veeeeery slow for this tourney

You wanna be much faster

[tulip monolith]

handling and aesthetics, i suppose

might make one or two more...

[granite river]

No side thrust

[tulip monolith]

no it does

[granite river]

I don’t even count the existence of that singular standard thruster

It will make no difference

[hard rover]

back thrust isn't going to be good unless you try to compensate

which you ideally wouldn't have to do

[tulip monolith]

iv never realy piloted a ship

heck depending on how irritable my computer is feeling, i'll probibly fly straight into a wall

hopefuly not tho

[young jacinth]

The new meta:

f::
Send, %Face_cursor_key%
Sleep, 100
Send, %Face_cursor_key%
return

[hard rover]

tbf it's not really hard to avoid turning keys on face cursor

[young jacinth]

you cant make hard turns

thats extremely bad in many situations

[hard rover]

i mean face cursor is only good for cruise control anyway so i don't think it should get used much

[raven fern]

How so? On the information document I included a little gif for fun but you can see me making hard turns while using face to cursor

[hard rover]

boost thrust allows for hard turns

[vocal cloak]

i feel like the popular pick will be some form of triple huge with ER+ some manuevering thrust

no maneuvering thust would be faster but difficult to pilot

[hard rover]

5 ht is faster though

[vocal cloak]

2 er 5 ht?

[young jacinth]

how fast?

[hard rover]

yeah

[hard rover]

190 minimum

3ht needs alot of optimisation and no maneuver thrust to go that fast

[young jacinth]

slow

[young jacinth]

thats not hard enough

[upbeat ridge]

lmao

[hard rover]

well you can't really go any faster and even if you did it'll be not worth it

[raven fern]

My timing wasn't great but by turning earlier you can imagine how it would look ^^

[young jacinth]

this method doesnt work if you need to to 2 sharp turns in succession

[vocal cloak]

i feel like you dont want to turn sharply at all in this

thats just dumping speed

[desert sky]

why using so much reverse thrust ? you are faster going backward

[raven fern]

I saw your sign up message asking where to post your ships. You can DM them to me

[desert sky]

good news i will be avalible for the tournament!!!

[vocal cloak]

triple HT is still faster than 5 HT

[upbeat ridge]

gee, wonder why

[desert sky]

geeee wonder why

[vocal cloak]

although for turning sake 5 HT would be alot easier

[desert sky]

blaze you havent anwered these two btw
(i second both)

[vocal cloak]

dont use big thrust for maneuvering thrusters

use small thrust

[raven fern]

You can paint your ships but the base paint will be one of the 4 colors and potentially other layers too if it's not sufficient. The goal is to easily distinguish the 4 players

[upbeat ridge]

hasn't salephz honed in on the ideal racing design yet

[desert sky]

is monochrome 4layers fine

[vocal cloak]

oh so choose one and for other layers dont choose the other 3

[tulip monolith]

i have no idea

[tulip monolith]

oke

[desert sky]

lmfao

[raven fern]

Yes

[raven fern]

Yep

[hard rover]

doesn't with manoeuvring thrust

[desert sky]

good, will i be asked to switch scheme to not overlap with other players ?

[tulip monolith]

i think i might make a borg cube perhaps

[raven fern]

Once in creative each player can pick their color. So expect to maybe have to switch

[hard rover]

i'm absolutely putting an iraqi flag on it

[desert sky]

will you partake in it

juni ???

[upbeat ridge]

nah

i'm not quiite the best racer

[raven fern]

Answer in the message just above

[desert sky]

you don't need to be the best to have fun!

[upbeat ridge]

i'm too competitive when it comes to racing, though

my true first taste of competition

[shrewd imp]

I see, thanks!

[young jacinth]

who needs that?

[desert sky]

oh i guess if the tournament happen late at night for you it's not that worth

[upbeat ridge]

i cant ever be a tournament player at this rate

[desert sky]

for me it happen like, midday

lucky me lucky me

[upbeat ridge]

bah, i'm already participating in advent of code anyway

[raven fern]

An arbitrary number chosen on the B.B discord with those that helped during the development of the event

[shrewd imp]

Where should we submit ships?

[hard rover]

people who don't want to stop half of their thrust on every turn

[young jacinth]

DM BLAZE

ups caps moment

[shrewd imp]

Okie, thanks :)

[vocal cloak]

i will assume paint like this is ok then

[raven fern]

Those are fine!

[surreal pecan]

@raven fern is there anywhere I could find detailed information about the grand prix?

If there's any of course.

I feel like the concept leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Like what's the price limit, the time, do the contestants have to go to the race course, where will the race course be, is attacking fair game, so on and so forth.

[raven fern]

In the announcement? 😅

[shrewd imp]

Check the attached document

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RVijp8SRx9RJrfLD8bfhYsXur87mQjeCGb36IIvquXI/edit?usp=sharing

[surreal pecan]

Thanks.

[granite river]

Wait, racing tourney?

The rise of face mouse cursor :PPPP

[upbeat ridge]

we expected that years ago

[granite river]

Fair

[surreal pecan]

Face the cursor is such a goofy feature.

It's more fun than anything in my eyes.

[young jacinth]

@raven fern ^

[granite river]

It’s a ton of fun I agree

But I’m so glad it’s in the game because I would’ve needed to learn an entire new control set otherwise

[young jacinth]

you still should

[granite river]

,_,

But I’m lazy

[young jacinth]

If you hate one player in particular...

[hard rover]

omw to make splitter ships that suicide into people

weapons aren't allowed but reactors are

[granite river]

Reactor splitter locking ship

Because no budget limit :P

[hard rover]

mass works like one

[desert sky]

how do you make em explod

charge are not allowed

[hard rover]

set ship to blow up

[granite river]

self destruct

[hard rover]

you can self destruct the full ship

the reactor will go splod and kill the enemy

[granite river]

Just self destruct the frickin reactor

[hard rover]

can't in pvp

can in creative though

[granite river]

Wait really?

Oh

[desert sky]

huh
@raven fern if self destruct is allowed it can replace charges

[granite river]

rip my locking squib idea

[desert sky]

cos you can target spesific parts, i don't want locking to be meta

[hard rover]

i mean if someone manages to use locking on a ship that small they kinda earned it

[granite river]

Thruster deadzone abuse would matter a lot more in this than I think would be reasonable

Locking should be banned here

[hard rover]

not really

you can only fit 2 engine blocks and a ship this small and there isn't much to gain from it

deadzone abuse is better on large ships rather than smaller ones

[granite river]

One could argue a locking ship would exceed the 15x15 grid because half the ship isn’t even on the grid

So some rules lawyering later, rip locking

[hard rover]

to do it you'll have to do alot of stuff when the race begins that it won't be worth it as others will get a headstart

and you won't be much faster anyways

[desert sky]

point is if explosive are disallowed self destruct should be

n o matter it's usage

[hard rover]

yeah i agree on that

i just disagree taht locking would be meta

[raven fern]

I'm going to say no because of the possibility of the ship spinning out of control and getting glitched in the walls. Updated the document.

[raven fern]

Self-destructing parts will not be allowed for that very reason 😆 . Thus making locking impossible as a result

[raven fern]

A perma thrust module would make it quite difficult to steer in sharp turns, so probably not very meta. Nonetheless, it would've been interesting

[hard rover]

i'd assume you have to lock quickly otherwise people would get a headstart over you too

[granite river]

One could theoretically use a control group to micro the second set of thrusters but it would be really hard especially if you had high ping

[spring fable]

what are they doing?

[hard rover]

dancing

vibing

doing redshirt stuff

[raven fern]

Weird, bug report?

[spring fable]

no i figured it out

when looking at the priorites they would leave the ER to get batteries but they cant supply it unles someone in there

causing the loop

[granite river]

I have a hypothesis

[spring fable]

.

[granite river]

oh

[spring fable]

lol

[granite river]

I am blind

[spring fable]

all good

was that basically what u were gonna say tho?

[granite river]

I didn't even notice they weren't supplying the thrusters

Not really

I think the game thinks the crew in the ER are closer to the reactor so priioritizes them to refill the ER(?) but also doesn't check that they can't fill the thrusters properly if they do that(?)

Idk that's what I thought was happening

I've noticed this in some of my ships

[desert sky]

all i can notice is some awful role managment

[spring fable]

yeah...

[young jacinth]

I honestly think it should be allowed would make it easier for everyone to start at the same time and it would make it impossible for malicious players to abuse the lenient rules.
Its also extremely unlikely that someone will get stuck in the walls.

[young jacinth]

I would also add that rule to the document

ah you did

[spring fable]

this allowed?

[hard rover]

allowed

probably

nothing wrong with it

[young jacinth]

Why wouldnt it be?

[spring fable]

idk just making sure

also i need help getting the mod this isnt right

[white apex]

did u unzip it

[raven fern]

The finish line is made of ghost blocks which can interact weirdly with the ship in its solid state. If you have examples of ways the rules can be abused please do share

[spring fable]

yeah but its somehow ended up in a ships folder instead of a mods folder

[white apex]

amazing

[hard rover]

lmao

[spring fable]

ok i think i got it fixed lol

[young jacinth]

Well simply ramping up before the countdown ends

[spring fable]

you mean like that?

[raven fern]

Steam->Cosmoteer ->Properties -> Installed files ->Browse-> Standard mod
Drag the mod in there and unzip it. If you've fixed it then maybe this will help someone else

[white apex]

wait

no

[vocal cloak]

There is the mod installer right?

Why not use that

[white apex]

it's like 1 step above where ships are saved

[raven fern]

It does work

[spring fable]

yeah i got it by going to the cosmoteer saved ships folder going back and there is one called mods

[white apex]

very bad practice

good practice ^

[snow seal]

this is ramping thrust tho?

[spring fable]

but im not moving?

[snow seal]

i can't imagine the extra weight is worth it

the ghost blocks will prolly stop u from moving? assuming blaze adds those

[spring fable]

it also acts as turning thrust

[hard rover]

back thrust isn't really good turning thrust

[snow seal]

their priority to refill the engine room is higher than the prio to stand in it

smh

also walls..?

[snow seal]

damn more ppl want half speed??

lame

[hard rover]

i'm practically a lagswitch i need 1/2x

[white apex]

tactical lag switch to destroy the macros

[hard rover]

i will prevent plaus from using outside technology

[young jacinth]

We could also just do this?

[snow seal]

ghost block

or do u mean ramping

yes u can do that to ramp ur thrusters

but blaze forbids it

[white apex]

not fair for some

too random

[raven fern]

Yes, I'm not sure how useful it will be. As long as it's not during the countdown

[young jacinth]

Countdown is less fair

[hard rover]

you could just look at when people start moving

then move

first one to hear everyone follows ig

[snow seal]

paused game, and then unpause it??

why does that not work

oh bc everyone can control

[young jacinth]

Honestly I didnt think about that

thats probably the best solution

[raven fern]

That is actually a good idea

Game will be paused and unpaused after the countdown

[spring fable]

wdym not during countdown? this was the plan

[young jacinth]

Did you read the new rules? lol

[snow seal]

@safe marsh is it possible to only allow host to pause game in multiplayer creative?

[white apex]

i feel like no w/ out code injection

[spring fable]

yes i did

[snow seal]

but we are using the mod.. and there are mods that increase the player limit

[spring fable]

however he said yes?

[raven fern]

Then that is not allowed

[spring fable]

my prototypes are being shot down so fast lol

[safe marsh]

Looks like that setting is hardcoded, so probably no.

[snow seal]

oh i made this like 4 months ago

[snow seal]

ohwell

[spring fable]

i thgought TB wasnt allowed

[hard rover]

tbs aren't allowed unfortunately

[snow seal]

yeah i know

that's why i shared it

u saying ur prototypes were shot down, all of mine were too

[raven fern]

After this event, if people are interested in more races I'll organize some where weapons/respawning is allowed. I want to keep it simple or the first one

[hard rover]

i never made prototypes in te first place

[snow seal]

i also have a prototype for a pvp race

[hard rover]

i already plan to have disrupters and railguns for slowing down enemies

[snow seal]

railgun is too slow and heavy

[hard rover]

flak and cgs might be the best though

[snow seal]

when ships go 180, a 2 accel railgun is not gonna hit very consistently

[hard rover]

hitscan is going to be necessary since everyone goes at 185 minimum

ions have a good range and are hitscan

[snow seal]

ions are not gonna hit

slow rotation rate

[hard rover]

when used enough they probably can

eventually they might knock out a thruster or two

flak is probably going to be the best weapon

hitscan, high dps, ammo efficient and most importantly not that big

[white apex]

ion burst not enough

i would use cannons behind

rails are also pretty good

flak too big

rail recoil can boost as well

[hard rover]

aside from size they're good for chasing enemies

(not talking about shooting others behind you just shooting those infront of you)

[safe marsh]

I think ions would be the way to go. Rail recoil would make flight difficult, and rails still have trouble hitting really fast targets. Chainguns would be great if their range was better, but as-is they're probably too heavy.

[hard rover]

flak is hitscan, high dps, accurate and has aoe to help a bit

only downside that matters is size

also mines

they'll be pretty good when you're first place

[vocal cloak]

Cosmokart cosmokart

[safe marsh]

Mines might actually be a little broken since multiple laps exist (last time I checked).

[hard rover]

if the enemy is fast enough then they'll pass by them multiple times

they only last for 2 mins so that's not alot of time

[spring fable]

depends on how big the track is

and how far ahead you are

[white apex]

puts rails on back

it works ok w/ fire at target if u rotate minimally and the target comes to u

[hard rover]

still too much weight

[vocal cloak]

With the size of the current track mines would be super broken

[safe marsh]

I don't think rails as a thrust source would be viable, even aside from the railgun's weight you'd need more crew and logistics where you could be putting more thrusters.

[snow seal]

mines are too slow

u can run past a mine and u'll prolly not get hit bc by the time it explodes u're already gone

[short tartan]

@raven fern were the track files shared? I don't want to practice on a track that nobody else has access to

[snow seal]

ye they are in the server

[short tartan]

alr

[shrewd imp]

:)

[safe marsh]

I mean if you have the piloting skill to only trigger mines' very edge, then yeah, but you have to remember that mines can hit harder than nukes. A single small mistake leading to a glancing blow will shred most small ships.

[short tartan]

no weapons allowed tho so can't use railgun thrust

[short tartan]

where exactly? in the Google doc?

[white apex]

@raven fern why not allow weapons but have every ship be invulnerable

[snow seal]

u posted them all in the idea thread

[short tartan]

ooh true

if you want to practice go to blazes server lol

[vocal cloak]

Its in the zip file in announcsmnt

[snow seal]

oh yeah, it is

[surreal pecan]

Are splod charges allowed?

If so kamikaze reactor would be golden.

[hard rover]

nope

nor is self-destruct

[surreal pecan]

This would've been a much funnier experience with thrust damage or collision damage.

Too bad we don't have those.

[spring fable]

wasnt walt planning on adding thruster dmg?

[white apex]

no afaik

[short tartan]

potentially with docking iirc

[white apex]

rip career if he does though

[desert sky]

please host it with that track of mine in the sun/j

[worldly kiln]

Thruster rammers new meta

[desert sky]

bottom

[short tartan]

Nuh uh

[desert sky]

don't worry i asked myself the same question

[short tartan]

and I'm not

wait

oh

oops

[desert sky]

it's where i found them
have it changed ?

[short tartan]

no you're right, I just misunderstood

[raven fern]

Does nobody check #tournament-announcements 😭

[short tartan]

I forgot

I'm tired

[raven fern]

But... why?

[snow seal]

i'm thinking 2 laps is too short

[raven fern]

A racetrack with part of it going through the sun's damage zone could be interesting. To be seen another time!

[snow seal]

would the track also be in the sun?

i think suns cause a lot of lag for some ppl

[raven fern]

I'll do some trial runs this week end instead of Saturday Skirmishes. Depending on the average time it takes to finish each race and the total number of participants I may change the number of laps

[raven fern]

That's true, those are just ideas for now anyway

[white apex]

maybe someone will use nuke explosion to boost speed, idk

[hard rover]

nuk recoil too weak though

[snow seal]

these ships still weigh too much for that

[white apex]

would still be interesting

and also would allow self use explosive charges

[raven fern]

As much as I like that idea I doubt its effectiveness. Definitely not for this event. Like I've said previously, I'd rather keep it simple and spice it up in future races

[white apex]

recoil/knockback/explosion strength boost would be needed for that

imageine the tiny ships shooting each other and knocking each other off course w/ 10000 knockback cannons

[snow seal]

i feel like 5 would be a good amount
about 4 mins total?

[raven fern]

Shoots once and gets sent to the other end of the map while maybe dealing damage ^^

[desert sky]

my idea was rather, like salphz mentionned to do laps in the sun area

[raven fern]

Maybe, I'll confirm the number of laps Saturday. I'll mention that the number of laps is subject to change for the time being in the document

[raven fern]

So a sun diver race

[white apex]

could be interesting to see who goes for armor/shields and who just face tanks

[raven fern]

Probably shields? A lot lighter compared to armor

[desert sky]

exactly but around the sun not toward it

that and weapon enable cos it'll be funny to see people shoot emps and electro bolt

[raven fern]

If someone builds such a track I'll certainly consider it

[spring fable]

who needs a track? just say that anyone who leaves circle is disqualified

[desert sky]

i started doing it but discarded afterward
i might look up how rift made most of the track and get how to do mine

[raven fern]

Don't forget that Salephz made some of the tracks as well!

[surreal pecan]

10/10 race track designs, would see a lemans race on it.

[gilded spindle]

Made my race thing

[rain loom]

I definitely have a few different ship ideas for it. I am interested to see what comes of the building restrictions.

[gilded spindle]

Yea, it'll mean people will be inclined to minimise weight

[rain loom]

That is true. I think balancing the weight also is going to be a big deal. Accidently had an assymetric ship that I tested which was doing weird stuff at high speeds.

[short tartan]

huge ships mod and just looking at some irl tracks, mostly messed around

[gilded spindle]

For one of mine this wasn't an issue

It was also the fastest of all mine, but if it crashed it got out of control

[young jacinth]

Its riskier to use an asym ship as I find them to be a little less predictable at low speeds (so when you crash and have to speed back up)

[gilded spindle]

All of my ships suffer from that, but once they warm up they're faster because of it

[rain loom]

I think any collision at these high speeds is going to lose control at this point.

[gilded spindle]

That's true

its gonna be a contest of not crashing into things or people

[hard rover]

that's why i'm crashing specifically into you (joking)

[vocal cloak]

I advocate penalty for contact

[shrewd imp]

we will all lose then

[hard rover]

i gotta make an all direction boost thrusters cube

who needs face cursor when you face every direction

[tulip monolith]

borg cube

wut

#, borg cube

[hard rover]

basically

[tulip monolith]

wait does adding # make text bigger?

[hard rover]

yeah

[granite river]

Wallbangs

[tulip monolith]

hmm

########### h

# # .

eh

[hard rover]

.

[granite river]

eh

[hard rover]

tournament chat be like

[tulip monolith]

[hard rover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1115328187300323429.gif?size=48&name=nuke&quality=lossless

[tulip monolith]

[snow seal]

i have an assym ship but it's also illegal

it works fine

[gilded spindle]

That's sad

[short tartan]

@sour hinge
#1179250565637750915 message
no weapons allowed
2 laps for most tracks

[sour hinge]

Thanks

I noticed "Face Ship Towards Cursor" is very weak.

I can't use it reliably to make sharp turns.

[spring fable]

sharp turns are slower than wide turns

[young jacinth]

Thats not always true

[hard rover]

sharp turns are most of the time faster just make you slower after the turn

[short tartan]

the fastest way through a corner is the straightest line

path of least resistance

[sour hinge]

I had more success controlling my ship by just piloting via WASD

[desert sky]

listen to this guy she have done races in real life (iirc)

[desert sky]

how what kind of aliens are you

do you just touch your extra sensitive keyboard using telepathy?!

[sour hinge]

I just hold down forward, and quickly tap left/right to turn.

[hard rover]

controlling them with wasd isn't too hard

[sour hinge]

I have camera lock disabled, and the lights help me keep track of forward

[young jacinth]

How do you allign a certain angle?

[desert sky]

why are y'alls using 8 crew this thing can sustain on 6 besides operators

[sour hinge]

Center of mass

[young jacinth]

I dont really get it too

[hard rover]

com matters

[young jacinth]

Doesnt matter

Its faster asymmetrically

[desert sky]

^

[hard rover]

drift

[young jacinth]

?

[hard rover]

unless you face cursor problems will appear

[desert sky]

just use it then ?

[hard rover]

even then 2 tonnes only decrease speed by 1m/s

[desert sky]

faster and no problems

[hard rover]

it tries to adjust somewhat lowering speed by like 1m/s

[young jacinth]

I have a decent solution for that

[short tartan]

yup, i do a decent amount of sim racing and got decently close to a karting record

racing is one of my special intrests

[young jacinth]

Its at least 2

[sour hinge]

I think it's alright flying slightly at an angle

[snow seal]

backwards smh

i put arrows next to the start line

[sour hinge]

where?

[snow seal]

@-@

blaze removed them wth

[young jacinth]

Eh you lose a lot of speed with those adjustments

[raven fern]

hm?

[raven fern]

Not on all your tracks

[sour hinge]

Rules stated crossing the finish line twice, I don't think direction matters 😝

[snow seal]

this is the file that i have saved on my computer

which should be the same one that i sent to u

dmed u @raven fern

[sour hinge]

None of your shared tracks have arrows or CRs for me

[young jacinth]

Me neither

[raven fern]

Yeah it would appear I used the outdated ones. No matter, I'll use the correct ones for tournament

[snow seal]

update the tracks please

so ppl actually practice in the correct direction

[young jacinth]

I just practised both lol

[desert sky]

same lmao

[desert sky]

@w@ well i guess to each their own

[white apex]

use shift

flash the brakes on/off

minimal speed/rampup loss

[short tartan]

ive found using brake key helps with precision

[sour hinge]

Could you achieve the same effect by disabling "automatically brake"?

or are you suggesting spamming the "Direct Control: Brake/Coast" keybind?

[short tartan]

I'm suggesting this

[desert sky]

oh wait do you have "automatically brake" ? explain alot

[sour hinge]

I had it on

[desert sky]

i admit i have it off so using wasd is impossible

[desert sky]

but does it help with speed

[sour hinge]

Helps with speed from not crashing 😉

[white apex]

don't use that

it's bad

[granite river]

I think it would be helpful if all of these tracks had arrows at the start to see which way we're supposed to fly them

Like Salephz's K1 Anaheim already does

[raven fern]

Um... I may or may not have shared the wrong tracks from Salephz. I'll update them.

[granite river]

Oop

I don't wanna be practicing these maps backwards hahah

Quick question, do ships have to be a solid color or can I use multiple different shades that are very close to the same color to do some paint

[raven fern]

#1020489415476396043 message

[granite river]

Would this be fine then?

[raven fern]

Yep!

[sour hinge]

Can I hyperdrive to a friend mid race?

Will fog of war be on?

[sour hinge]

Warping seems too inaccurate & I end up outside the race track...it was worth a shot

reread the rules, also can't self-destruct making this useless

[raven fern]

You won't have any allies so I guess not
No there won't be fog of war

[white apex]

everyone is barbarian allegiance?

i haven't actually read the rules ted

yet

[hollow socket]

mario go carts but in cosmoteer

[surreal pecan]

You aren't allowed to use self destruct so that reactor split ain't helping you.

[young jacinth]

@hybrid tulip write here not in the sign up channel lol

[hybrid tulip]

Okay thanks

[young jacinth]

And to answer your question according to the anouncement it should be in 14 hours

[hybrid tulip]

Okayyy so it's tomorrow for me

[young jacinth]

Yea different time zone for him

[hybrid tulip]

Well practice time

[hard rover]

#1020489415476396043 message

learn to read

[surreal pecan]

Discord was scrolled up and I thought it was last message >:(

Learn to realize situations.

[hard rover]

learn to realise your situation before sending a message

[surreal pecan]

Will you not stop being rude for no reason?

[hard rover]

will do

[white apex]

did the scam bot try to sign up for #1178394868335255572 lol

[icy oxide]

gl for him then lol

[snow seal]

@white apex when tourney

[white apex]

6 hr 20 min

[snow seal]

isnt it start today?

[white apex]

ye

[snow seal]

oh..

[white apex]

it's later for me in case i do not wake up early

[hard rover]

i wake up at like 5am

[surreal pecan]

@ moderator Give him free champ role for trying 🔥

[granite river]

Imagine scam bot wins sotd

Ship of the day: FREE MONTH OF DISCORD NITRO by player19232845232

[white apex]

it is now time for someone to claim that they can win w/ out shields

i probably should've added a max speed clause but i want the ships to be optimized specifically for this, so other designs will not be applicable

[granite river]

Teratron is going to have a field day with this

[timid current]

capacitor ships might work for cost efficiency, but i don't think i'll do that

also somebody is going to use alpha boost and zero-sustain shields to game the crew efficiency score

i won't do an alpha design though

[granite river]

I just want to go for a strong overall performance

[timid current]

i don't have a lot of experience with sundivers, so i'm going to mess around for awhile before deciding which 1 or 2 scores to go for

[snow seal]

the sun is a circle that u can't enter.. so there is a max score that is at the surface of the sun

[white apex]

yep

wait no

it's just distance/cost (or crew or mass)

[snow seal]

oh yeah

ok

[granite river]

My personal goal is just to beat every non-specialized design in all categories

[white apex]

but i think every design will be specialized

[timid current]

that sounds like a high bar

[granite river]

It is

Personal challenge :D

[white apex]

do u mean beat cost efficient ships in crew/mass? and stuff like that

[granite river]

Basically yeah

Idea being my build beats every other overall build and only loses to specialized builds in their specific categories

[white apex]

good luck

[snow seal]

ur shpi and the sun are not centered

bruh i am confused

[timid current]

yeah this sun is damaging through shields

[snow seal]

i dont think that's supposed to happen..

[white apex]

bug

[snow seal]

it doesnt happen close to the sun

but far away yeah

[white apex]

*dies* i did not think to select both

is standard for everyone so it should be fine

[snow seal]

just move it

bruh.

it's so simple just move it

[timid current]

because the sun does some damage through the large shields, it seems like the best method survive as deep as possible to simply go as fast as possible

[white apex]

i just realized, i saved the game with the local version of the mod instead of the steam version

i will fix it tomorrow

[timid current]

actually maybe nvm, with enough shield coverage it can be avoided

or at least it happens infrequently enough that it's not a problem

[snow seal]

while ur at it, fix the ship in the center pls

the instant pause mod is fucking my game so i had to build a new map.. hehehe

[snow seal]

@white apex how are u measuring the distance?

[snow seal]

@white apex is the sun in ur test at the largest size or not

i think the radius of the sun is 5km and the damage zone is 12.5km

[surreal pecan]

w h y

[hybrid tulip]

Did it start already ?

[hazy root]

@white apex will you use the latest rc that should fix sun damage through shields?

Also ship will move until they lose any part, are armor considered part ? If no, do you consider shields as parts?

[desert sky]

fixed in the RC

see patchnotes

[hazy root]

Also how many ships can we submit?

[white apex]

1

[white apex]

all parts are parts

[white apex]

yes, i will mention that

[white apex]

it should be

[white apex]

on the bottom left, it shows how far away the rts command endpoint is

[hard rover]

so no armor tanking

not like it'll win any category other than crew anyway

[hard rover]

air i reached a point where i'm calculating crew per meter. kilogram per meter and credit per meter

would you consider that a success?

[surreal pecan]

He definitely would.

[hybrid tulip]

Does the ship need an airlock ? @white apex

[white apex]

no

[white apex]

yipee

[hybrid tulip]

I think I already got a good prototype ahah, just a little unstable because of the shitty center of gravity and I guess it has crew issues. I really really like these odds

What is the purpose of that

(let's not leak my ships)

Guys what happens if the first module destruction is sun contact

[white apex]

sekrit :3

[white apex]

good job, now make it cheaper/less crewed/lighter

[hybrid tulip]

Yes that's what I'm doing

I was wondering if there was anything to gain from it

[white apex]

more points :P

[hybrid tulip]

Did I lose a module yet ???

This is hell

Literally if you're german

[white apex]

ctrl shift a -> look at number

[hybrid tulip]

Thanks

that helps I guess

[white apex]

yeah, wish there was a better way to see while so close to the sun

[hybrid tulip]

I touched the sun I think my whole ship instantly dissapeared

I have a pretty good prototype

It's not very expensive either

Let's make it better

[white apex]

i took it out of my normal creative game, adn that's where i keep my prototypes/wips

this thing

hopefully there is no nsfw pixel art or something like that lol

[hybrid tulip]

Wait why is that a concern

Did you make nsfw cosmoteer too

[white apex]

wdym too

o shit i forgot to mention the rc

[hybrid tulip]

I know someone did it ahah

[hybrid tulip]

Yeah please my shields are bleeding

Give me the band aid

[white apex]

i love getting google docs to edit 1 document

[hybrid tulip]

How do I get 23.1 RC1 specifically, is it the current build ? @white apex

[hybrid tulip]

Unstable okay thanks

I just want to say that if the last distance your ship gets from the middle ship and coming from the bottom is 4.98km you've hit the star

I'm doing consistensy checks, I don't wanna get screwed up by rng

My current ship hits the star, usually, but once it died 5.2 km fom the center ship for some reason.

[white apex]

crew rng?

[hybrid tulip]

Yeah

I managed to made it more consistant and reduce the price

I'm below 200k

WAAAY below

The shit I found is insane

it's amazing what I can get away with

I still need to watch out for rng

I touch down the sun with almost no damage on the modules

my shields are holding so damn well

What if I can get away with more

[white apex]

u probably can

[hybrid tulip]

Yes

Crew chaos leaving me stuck, alive but stuck near sun because everyone is confused between powering props or shields

Still touched down ;3

Below 150k

This is my most consistent ship, the cheapest and by far the most crew efficient

Now let's sacrifice good sense and go beyond all reason

How much more stuff can I sell before it doesn't work anymore

[white apex]

i should've attended and just used a sr w/ small shield build

[hybrid tulip]

a sr ?

[white apex]

small reactor

[hybrid tulip]

Don't think that'll work

at least not the full distance

[white apex]

why go full distance

makes no sense

[hybrid tulip]

I go full distance, touch the sun, with the least amount of stuff possible.

If I can do less distance for waaay less stuff I'll see it after

I'm down to less than 12 crew for the full distance

[white apex]

nice

[hybrid tulip]

And I'm nearing 100k

This is unbelievable

I could do something

but that would mean more crew

I'm going to try it anyways

[white apex]

thats uh

that's the point

of this existing

so that ppl try stuff

lol

[hybrid tulip]

Yes

I love it

Never would I have sent ships to a death race towards the sun for any other reason

Thank you

[white apex]

i think i will change the theme from optimization to "here is a silly game u can do w/ the parts"

like run into the sun

*for the next tourney

[hybrid tulip]

Ahahah

Alas my Idea didn't really work. died halfway

Let's refine it

By that, make it smaller

Not bad. Went further

it's sub 90k

[hazy root]

@white apex can we make multiple submissions ? My ship is ready, but I'm affraid about a game version change...

[white apex]

the last submission u send to me is the one i'll use

if rc1 is not buggy and makes it to stable, that is the best case scenario

[hybrid tulip]

I wish I could give individual crew assignations ahah

Words cannot express how happy I am one of my ships exploded on the sun

[white apex]

lol

[hybrid tulip]

Is this true happiness ?

[white apex]

true hapiness is when the physical projectile ship lines up w/ a perfect cost when both filled and empty

[snow seal]

how far away the what is to what

[white apex]

u have the distance u started away, and u have the distance u still need to go

so u take the beginning distance and subtract the end distnace

boom distance travelled

[snow seal]

make the arrow follow the ship

then use that number instead

no math needed also

[white apex]

oh i see

different ship sizes though

i'm going to keep it the way i originally did it for now, but i might do that next time

[snow seal]

uh... maybe make the center follow the ship?

still math nvm

[snow seal]

uhm u guys end up with really sus shaped ships?

[hybrid tulip]

No

My ship is neat

Is sub 10 crew too :3

My first ship used to cost 3x as much as this one

There should be a speed category, I made my ship so slow and it still works

I have a dillema

One ship is 400 more expensive

The other is .1 ton heavier

Can I ask you to activate, let's say a booster, once the racing ship is at a certain distance from the sun ?

Because I managed to get it cheaper with a booster

@white apex

Also 6 crew ;3

[hybrid tulip]

God this ship is so crew rng dependant

It's like 50/50 to make it to the sun

I'm doing stats lmao

[hard rover]

high

[hybrid tulip]

lmao

you're late

[hard rover]

thankfully

6 crew mid reactor 1 shield could work

8 def can

it seems it's even 2 crew over

[hybrid tulip]

What

You can reach the sun with a medium reactor

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

Can you touch it ???

Also, I managed to get my 6 crew ship to reach the sun... It contains cannons :3

It reached the sun with 1hp remaining on the weakest module lmaooo that's way too close for comfort

[white apex]

boost is activated once at the beginning and that's it

[hybrid tulip]

Huuggh then my thing doesn't work

https://tenor.com/view/toystory-buzz-buzzlightyear-academy-training-gif-7910531

[hybrid tulip]

My crew as the star glows brighter and brighter, the reserves empty, and the cannons crumble

@white apex what exactly is the bonus point for touching the star, does it matter a lot or not

[white apex]

there is none

it's just usually more points since u travelled further

[hybrid tulip]

Oh okay

Then I'm still making a mass test to know how exactly unreliable is my ship, and how to fix it

I think it's a good approach