1.21.9 Snapshots

[keen cloak]

Not at the moment. It's just two files remaining and a case of deciding what stays and what goes for now

[keen cloak]

Done, the only things that stay dead for now are the DimensionSpecialEffects weather render hook and RenderHighlightEvent.Block. I have an idea for making the latter work again but that'll be a PR once we go public. The DimensionSpecialEffects hooks should probably get a complete re-design or at the very least each be split into extraction and submission to match vanilla

[ember lintel]

we need to update the PlayerSetSpawnEvent to use the full LevelData.RespawnData

[ashen bison]

is that class strictly for Player?

[ember lintel]

yes since it's for spawnpoints and extends PlayerEvent

[shrewd dirge]

I guess my days of not being able to release a port immediately are coming to a middle https://commoble.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/images/morered/and_gate_preview.png

[keen cloak]

Going public in this case refers to making a porting PR that is still on a pre-release or RC, not the first release on the full MC release, so you can still release a port immediately if my PR gets merged fast enough

[ember lintel]

do we want to fix these things or go public first?

[keen cloak]

Fix what specifically?

[ember lintel]

what you left

[keen cloak]

No, I left it specifically because it requires a more substantial rework that should be done in a public PR

[surreal wind]

does sound like those features would benefit from more eyes and not warrant keeping things "hidden"

[keen cloak]

Correct

[ember lintel]

ok so I'll move the rejects gen patches and create a squash branch

[keen cloak]

👍

[ember lintel]

Please check the squashed commit

[fringe summit]

I think you should edit down the commit message to a simple Port to 1.21.9-pre1 and remove the rest (except the co-author tags, obviously)

Otherwise "[phone]", that's not even that bad

Hm.

Honestly, this is an artifact of our process, we'll clean it up in post I guess. This shouldn't be a patch to begin with

That looks like it's left over from the split sources change

since NeoForm still ships with that broken start patch

We should take the opportunity and remove that in 1.21.9

[keen cloak]

Speaking of which: we should probably add that offline mode flag in both neodev and userdev to shut up the Realms warning, potentially conditional on an auth token being provided such that testing with auth is still possible

[fringe summit]

yes

or rather, no. 😄

-> FML refactor

There's no difference between startup in neodev/userdev/production anymore in that

BTW; this looks like a formatting artifact or am I just blind?

[keen cloak]

Yeah, that's just a formatting artifact

We probably have a bunch of those again, they slip in regularly

[fringe summit]

There are a few more of that, can I just go in and fix that?

@ember lintel are you actively working on the squash?

It also seems to be complaining about the generated ATs being outdated

[keen cloak]

Doesn't surprise me

[ember lintel]

I already pushed to port/1.21.9-pre1 on the main repo

[fringe summit]

Ah ok, well I can fix it there

What about this patch, btw. it has no docs?

[keen cloak]

No clue, that patch has existed for ages

[fringe summit]

That if can't be hit

We should yeet that

Oh it's half true, I suppose you could pass --username "", I have to check if it accepts that

[ember lintel]

1.21.9-pre1 PR is available: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2639

[winter bear]

[fringe summit]

Name the branch port/1.21.9

[ember lintel]

I checked the naming that was used in 1.21.6

that had a branch per version and closed the PR each time

[fringe summit]

Hm, you searched for longer than I did then. I also tried to find how we did that for 1.21.6 😄

[ember lintel]

I just opened the branches view on the main repo

[fringe summit]

Ok? I only see port/1.21.6 there

I do see that I made a PR from a pre1 branch, then deleted that and moved to a suffix-less 🤔

Whatever, it's fine until it builds

We need to resolve conflicts to get a published version

[ember lintel]

on the prs I find this

[ember lintel]

I have no idea how resolving conflicts in patches works, but I'm surprised we only have 5 conflicting patches

[fringe summit]

The short version is: it sucks.

[fringe summit]

You could try an interesting experiment 😅
Try to find the PRs that are missing, and try to use the backporting bot to port them to the porting branch.

[keen cloak]

shartte, if you don't mind, I would like to take over the patch cleanup (once the PR is rebased), looking through the squashed commit I found a couple more issues

[fringe summit]

Yes, go ahead

I'll try to hammer out some stuff on the FML refactor since we're under time pressure again 😄

[keen cloak]

Did you notice any other formatting artifacts beyond the two in the mouse handler?

[fringe summit]

Nope, just the one and the one further down

[keen cloak]

I'm trying my hand at rebasing the porting PR right now

[keen cloak]

Welp, here goes nothing, let's hope the PR survives this

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbXy0vek50

[keen cloak]

There we go, PR rebased, ATs, patches and formatting fixed and it finally builds and publishes. The JUnit tests appear to get stuck though

[tacit garden]

the test framework is accessing a null serverWorld, at least when I tried the tests in my mod with the pr-published junit
the test would hang trying to access the locked temp world folder

[surreal wind]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_2rPO4zgMo

[keen cloak]

Hmm, interesting. My best guess is that it's a bug in the EphemeralTestServerProvider. JUnit, IDEA's integration or Gradle is being a piece of garbage though, all I get is "Test events were not received" in IDEA and gradlew test finishing almost immediately in a terminal, so I can't even debug this

[tacit garden]

log in case it's helpful

[keen cloak]

Perfect, that pointed me in the right direction. The latest commit should fix it

[tacit garden]

I'll try with the pr publish tomorrow then

[keen cloak]

Tests succeed now, so it did indeed fix it. Thank you a ton for the hint

[tacit garden]

yep, that works. thanks

[thorn sable]

did someone forget to bump a version number?
why is the 21.9 pr puublished as 21.5.0-alpha....

[ember lintel]

someone forgot since 1.21.6

I'll bump it when doing pre2

(just remind me)

[thorn sable]

did we break scrolling in the mods screen?
if i have an entry selected i cant scroll the list with my scroll wheel
i mean it tries to but after scrolling it resets back to the top

[ember lintel]

Check a vanilla scroll list if it is a general bug

[fringe summit]

in the snapshot? I mean the entire input system was redone, so VERY LIKELY I#d say :d

[thorn sable]

yeah, i just set my workspace to the pre1 pr publish

[thorn sable]

i can scroll the resource pack (selected) list just fine even when an entry is selected
but the mods screen is unscrollable when a entry is selected
can scroll just fine when nothing is selected

ignore weird window size, had to make it small to make resource packs list scrollable

[ember lintel]

Ok I'll start with working on an api for the management api stuff

[thorn sable]

mojang why did you merge ParticleEngine.crack into ClientLevel.addBreakingBlockEffect
had to extract it back out to keep my multiblock cracking progress

[runic crypt]

Mojang is funny sometimes

[ember lintel]

I have started my work on the extensibility of the jsonrpc api here:
https://github.com/Minecraftschurli/NeoForge/tree/feature/jsonrpc-api
Does anyone have any ideas for what jsonrpc methods neoforge can add?

[surreal patrol]

First thing that comes to mind is probably just basic reporting like mods and mixins

[steep wing]

my snapshot modding challenge failed...

[surreal patrol]

On the frog?

[keen cloak]

It's far too late to be doing this but here goes nothing:

• Re-implement additional metadata in atlas loading: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2641 (@graceful ibex, this is for you since you implemented the previous incarnation of this)
• Implement key mapping category registration and sorting: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2642 (@cyan ether, this is for you since you wanted category sorting)
• Re-implement support for custom block outlines: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2643 (not sure I'm fully happy with this solution but it should work fine, will be testing this tomorrow)
• Provide access to data-driven keyframe animations in item models: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2644 (this came up in the PR fixing the order between the animation loader and entity renderer creation)
• Provide custom sprite sources access to the additional metadata set: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2645 (I might be the only one who cares about this, but not being able to properly load metadata in a custom sprite source sucks)
  I'm also working on a PR to make LevelRenderState extensible similar to EntityRenderStates and adjust RenderLevelStageEvent and IDimensionSpecialEffects to more closely match the two-stage architecture vanilla is using now.

[cyan ether]

oh you accept PR requests? where do I send that 10 page list

tbh I'm meh at the toposort, I'd say it's overkill

[keen cloak]

How would you sort them instead?

[lavish herald]

https://github.com/FabricMC/fabric/blob/24bef908ddf01ad56a3f88bedb206ca03224201b/fabric-key-binding-api-v1/src/client/java/net/fabricmc/fabric/impl/client/keybinding/CategoryComparator.java

[keen cloak]

Sure, that works fine if all we want is a stable order. If we want to provide the option to specify an order between categories (which the PR currently does), then a simple comparator is not sufficient

[cyan ether]

just a stable name-based order, I don't think mods will actually care about the relative order and I don't think the feature will actually be used

[fervent maple]

For your information, the game crashes when the player tries to open the NeoForge client settings menu.

[lavish herald]

I agree. I think if a modpack author or user deems the screen too difficult to navigate they will install a mod that allows searching the list instead of reporting to mods that add to it to reorder their categories

[fervent maple]

the culling box of the copper golem statue is incorrect, and F3+2 crashes the game

F3+2

[shrewd dirge]

debug_subscription_request

[keen cloak]

Fair enough, I'll nuke the custom order stuff then

[surreal patrol]

Does the key bind screen have a method to search for categories or key mappings?

[cyan ether]

no, the vanilla screen has no search

but like all packs use jared's mod

[surreal patrol]

Okay then

[keen cloak]

Fixed all three issues, thank you

[fervent maple]

NeoForge still uses OpenGL Core 3.2.0 instead of OpenGL Core 3.3.0.

[fringe summit]

Yes

[ember lintel]

hmm what info should we expose for the modlist? just modid + version or more?

[fervent maple]

https://youtu.be/N7LPEbhNCtk

[fringe summit]

There'll be more later (i.e. SHA-256 checksum as a replacement for the signing stuff), but I'd say filename/path (?), mod-id, version at the very least

hard to tell whether it should really be called "modlist" or if it should include plugins/services? (

[ember lintel]

for the read only access is this enough information to offer over jsonrpc

[fringe summit]

So, in general: We should at least have a use case for exposing something

If there isn't one, this is just extra maintenance for nothing

[mellow briar]

seconded

[ember lintel]

Querying modlist, config and registry contents do seem useful to me

[gritty swan]

I feel like configs should be opt in

What if someone is storing sensitive info in there?

[ember lintel]

The whole management api is opt in by the server admin and it is authenticated

[ancient dawn]

Several config types are not synced by default, so could technically contain sensitive info.. but yeah, it's authed, so TBH that seems fine™ in my opinion

[gritty swan]

Can we make it a one-line on ModContainer or the config classes? Like mod.enableConfigApiCalls()

Look at the modern modpack landscape. Most packs are lazy kitchen sink packs with little configuration, nor deep knowledge of all the mods. Someone WILL turn this on for one mod and not realize they've opened up an attack vector

[ancient dawn]

Uh wait, how is that whole thing authed? I've not played with this enough

[ember lintel]

If it's opt in we can just not put it in anyway since nobody will activate it

[ember lintel]

Api token of a fixed length

[gritty swan]

TBH I still think server configs are useless anyway

We have gamerules, commands, datapacks, and so many other ways to get info into the game now..

[ancient dawn]

Ahh is that how it works by default? Yeah seems fine then.

[ember lintel]

The api already is an attack vector in vanilla, they expose the whitelist, blacklist and ops through it

[gritty swan]

Sure, but a whitelist isn't as dangerous as, say, a stream key or some API token

All I'm saying is be very very very prepared that if it happens, I will immediately point to this conversation

[ancient dawn]

No they let you modify those, right? Which, yes, should be assumed to be just as dangerous

[ember lintel]

Why should the server know a stream key?

[ember lintel]

Yes

[gritty swan]

Discord Integration, Twitch chat bots, etc

PLENTY of situations where baby's first mod ends up getting attacked

[ancient dawn]

In a sufficiently-large modpack with certain mods, having high enough command permissions on a server lets you do RCE and access arbitrary data on the server

So if you can add to the server operator list, you should already assume that level of access in practice.

[ember lintel]

Still, changing those is a usecase for the api (if i manage to design how to do modifying a config)

[gritty swan]

It's not modifying that's the problem

[ember lintel]

But you can't modify what you can't read

[gritty swan]

If I can read any config key, I can pop onto a server and keybash until I get into the API, then loop a bunch of vulnerable targets

So what's stopping me from attacking Twitch Integration Spawn-Your-Friends mod, and grabbing some poor streamer's key? RIP your stream, I got you banned now.

[ancient dawn]

The fact that the API is authenticated?

[gritty swan]

You know damn well that dumb people will hand over an auth token for trivial reasons

Social engineering exists

One mistake on stream exists

If you add this functionality there NEEDS to be a way for people to shut it down externally to close vulnerabilities

That way as soon as an issue is discovered both community and modder can be stopping it at the same time

[ancient dawn]

Sure, but my point is -- if you have the level of access to do the stuff vanilla allows, in a modded context, you should already assume that anything on the host machine is potentially exposed

[gritty swan]

That does not mean we need to open up a new attack vector

Keep it sane by default, we can be better than vanilla.

I guarantee that if someone finds an RCE or attack vector in vanilla, it'll get patched REAL fast

Look at Heartbleed or Log4Shell

[ancient dawn]

No, you misunderstand me. The vanilla API allows someone with access to the API to give themselves maximum command permissions, by whitelisting and op-ing themselves and then using /operator_user_permission_level/set to set the operator permission level to 4. In vanilla, this already exposes a fair bit of stuff (stop, for one).

However, in a modded context, it should be assumed that this gives arbitrary access to the servier. Permission-level-4 commands could do... all sorts of stuff, and may have reason to. It's the highest permission level for a reason, after all

[plain zenith]

The API token is required to be exactly 40 characters matching [a-zA-Z0-9]

[ancient dawn]

I mean seems fairly reasonable? That's, what, on the order of ~200 bits?

Is it a random string generated by the system, or a user-provided string, though?

[plain zenith]

there are about 5 * 10^71 combinations

[ancient dawn]

Yeah so around that scale. That seems about like what I'd expect for an API key of some sort?

I mean I guess another option is to say, effectively, that modders shouldn't be exposing commands that are any more powerful than the vanilla commands, at all, period, in the sense that the worst they could do is mess with the MC server itself, even at high permission levels, and they should not expose any information not otherwise sync-able to clients. And then just use this new API as an excuse to make that the expectation; that would solve stuff too

But so long as modders do make such commands at permission-level-4, anyone with access to the API already has implicit access to anything mods expose that way, which could be a lot -- whether you're talking access to configs or whatever else

[plain zenith]

It can be manually set but by default it's generated using SecureRandom

[ancient dawn]

Well sounds like any other API key to me then, cool

[plain zenith]

it uses a random port number by default and is also disabled by default

[ancient dawn]

Yeah I am really... not worried about exposing mod configs through this

[gritty swan]

If there's no way to opt out at a mod or config key level, then I'm hard vetoing and raising a maintainer vote

Because it's begging for someone to abuse it

All it takes is one mistake with an API key or a clueless modder to wreck the whole ecosystem's day

[ember lintel]

A server owner giving away the api key is just as likely to just give away the secrets directly

[gritty swan]

Whoops, accidentally showed a key in a stream, didn't have time to change it yet (because stream)...

Accidents happen. It's pretty simple to add an opt-out system, c'mon

[mellow briar]

Idk what the use case even is

[gritty swan]

I could see it being used for like, configured ports or some kind of external event (imagine a mod has a toggle for some kind of tournament or a raffle?)

My point is that there are WAY more mods out there from modders of all skill levels, and there's no possible way to audit all of them. Who knows what kind of crap is lying in your modpack if you turn this on?

[ember lintel]

changing configs via the management api, that would allow server hosts to use the api to actually manage the server

[gritty swan]

Once again, the moment it happens I WILL point to this conversation and say "I tried to point that out, but nobody else seemed to care"

It's preventative security and a low bar for implementing it. I'm not saying the config feature is useless, I'm saying we need an opt-out for the secure stuff

[ember lintel]

but server configs are synced to the client anyway

[gritty swan]

And we should have an opt-out for THAT, too

[ember lintel]

we should have it's own type for that

but that's not the feature being discussed here

[gritty swan]

Fair

At that point, I can think of far more ways this can end up being harmful over it being useful

I'd rather see a generic system Neo exposes to let modders add their own commands and queryables

[ember lintel]

that's already possible because it's a registry

[mellow briar]

By downloading the raw contents, parsing it as toml, modifying it, and then sending it back as raw content?

[ember lintel]

I have not decided on a way to do it yet

[mellow briar]

Having a use case would inform you on the best API design

[gritty swan]

Let's not have Config Screen 2.0

If there's a need, the community will trickle in and comment on it

[mellow briar]

Configs can just be modified on disk and changes will take effect immediately. If you want to manage the configs just change the file 😛

[ember lintel]

well that isn't so nice if the server runs in a docker container

[mellow briar]

That's docker 101

How else did you upload the mods on the server in the first place

[gritty swan]

You DON'T expose your saves and configs folders to an external disk? smh

Good luck updating anything

[fringe summit]

I can see it being easier to go via an RCON like interface

the modlist has the nice effect of being able to query what actually got loaded

configs... hmm... it can be interesting to be able to write them, but then again, we could only expose our own config system there

[ember lintel]

MOJANG

or more accurate JAVASCRIPT

why is the authentication in the jsonrpc over websockets api done via a header... you can't set headers in the js websocket api

[fringe summit]

Intentional? 😄

[ember lintel]

wdym? the js api is ancient and never got any auth and mojang just implemented the easiest kind

I can't even test it using postman because I'm to stupid to establish a connection

[fringe summit]

... postman should not be bound by web at all

Check if they have an API on top that allows to set headers

[ember lintel]

I think the postman problem is my ability not its ability

I am doing a websocket request using postman with the Authorization=Bearer ... header

I just get

[fringe summit]

well, there's your problem? 😄

[surreal wind]

apparently the js api supported basic auth but it was deprecated and has bee nremoved from all browsers

[fringe summit]

have you even enabled the API....

[fringe summit]

basic auth is unsafe as fuck

keep in mind websocket doesn't do CORS

[ember lintel]

yes the console says Json-RPC Management connection listening on localhost:2357

[fringe summit]

IPV4 vs. IPV6?

try actually using localhost as well in postman

[ember lintel]

I am

[fringe summit]

Or, is it localhost in a docker container?

(I am assuming not)

[ember lintel]

no I started it in neodev

[fringe summit]

Can you set the bind IP in the server properties?

Or is it forced to localhost?

[surreal wind]

ew postman is ugly now

compared to ... 10 years ago

[ember lintel]

I can set it... should I just publish the port by using 0.0.0.0

[fringe summit]

No, try setting 127.0.0.1

rather than localhost on the MC side

Futile attempts 😄 But hey

[ember lintel]

that actually worked

MOJANG, using localhost for the management api is broken

[fringe summit]

It may just as well be us setting weird-ass preferIpvvSomething CLI options

Or Postman unable to use an IPV6 localhost addr

[plain zenith]

using localhost worked for me using neoform

[fringe summit]

We do set an option specifically related to IPV4/IPV6

Which is absent in NeoForm, so it might be that

https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/blob/448e19fb957a2386f15bd9d8e98a60ce7f838de0/buildSrc/src/main/java/net/neoforged/neodev/CreateUserDevConfig.java#L113

[ember lintel]

I don't even have ipv6 in my home network

[fringe summit]

That doesn't matter for localhost

You have IPV6, if you want it or not 😄

[ember lintel]

but... it works

      {
        "name": "neoforge:modlist",
        "description": "Get a list of all mods installed on the server",
        "params": [],
        "result": {
          "name": "modlist",
          "schema": {
            "items": {
              "$ref": "#/components/schemas/mod"
            },
            "type": "array"
          }
        }
      },
      {
        "name": "neoforge:registries",
        "description": "List all registries on the server",
        "params": [],
        "result": {
          "name": "registries",
          "schema": {
            "items": {
              "type": "string"
            },
            "type": "array"
          }
        }
      },
      {
        "name": "neoforge:registry",
        "description": "List all keys in the given registry",
        "params": [
          {
            "name": "registryId",
            "schema": {
              "type": "string"
            },
            "required": true
          }
        ],
        "result": {
          "name": "registry",
          "schema": {
            "items": {
              "type": "string"
            },
            "type": "array"
          }
        }
      },

[surreal wind]

so Mojang made the json-rpc thing basically unusable if you use the language websockets were made for?

[fringe summit]

websockets now are used by a lot more than just the browser though

So I don't really find that surprising

[ember lintel]

the modlist query works

{
  "jsonrpc": "2.0",
  "id": 1,
  "result": [
    {
      "modId": "minecraft",
      "version": "1.21.9-pre1",
      "displayName": "Minecraft",
      "description": ""
    },
    {
      "modId": "neoforge",
      "version": "21.5.0-alpha.1.21.9-pre1.20250919.085707",
      "displayName": "NeoForge",
      "description": "    NeoForge, a NEW broad compatibility API.\n    "
    }
  ]
}

[vernal sinew]

New version detected: 1.21.9-pre2.

[ember lintel]

<@&1067092163520909374>

[broken nest]

what

[orchid adder]

IT BEGINS

[runic crypt]

Danm thats early

[orchid adder]

-# IT CONTINUES

[reef kayak]

wat happened

I need change log

[broken nest]

stop developing

[reef kayak]

[fringe summit]

It doesn't really begin. It just doesn't end. Until release

[orchid adder]

https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-21-9-pre-release-2

We heard Friday would be a Pre-tty cool day to release the second Pre-Release for Minecraft: Java Edition 1.21.9, so here we are! This pre-release contains fixes to various issues introduced in previous snapshots, as well as a missed bump to the Data Pack major version.

smh, they're shipping on a Friday

[fickle mason]

so they heard

[surreal wind]

pre-TTY

Server Management Protocol does not support parameters as object (by-name)

[thorn sable]

heh i was busy, its not day

mojang releasing on the wrong day smh

[winter bear]

So no J25 until 1.21.10/1.22

[fringe summit]

Sad

[thorn sable]

1.21.9 - Pre Release 2

• Primer: https://github.com/ChampionAsh5357/neoforged-github/blob/update/219-or-22/primers/1.21.9/index.md
• Article: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-21-9-pre-release-2
• Changelog: https://misode.github.io/versions/?id=1.21.9-pre2
• Notion: https://apexmodder.notion.site/2524f070f88880648482e3cbdcba566a?v=2524f070f88880b29f60000c52785ecb&p=2734f070f888805b8b08f6668256f779&pm=c
• SnowMan: https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/9227cd8311deeabb438138822d1c24e6c59edbd0

SlicedLimes Videos:

• Main: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPOcXAzS3Uk
• Pack: N/A

[fringe summit]

Maybe pre3?

[winter bear]

maybe

[surreal wind]

no ms sdk for java 25 yet: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/java/openjdk/download

[vernal sinew]

Minecraft 1.21.9 Pre-Release 2

We heard Friday would be a Pre-tty cool day to release the second Pre-Release for Minecraft: Java Edition 1.21.9, so here we are! This pre-release contains fixes to various issues introduced in previous snapshots, as well as a missed bump to the Data Pack ...

Sep 19, 2025, 11:19 AM

[fringe summit]

Yup I also just checked

Last time it took a few days after GA for it to show

[thorn sable]

plz no too soon

[winter bear]

right, they're dependent on that

[surreal wind]

iirc ms openjdk is derived from temurin? which isn't out yet

wait

https://adoptium.net/temurin/releases/

it is

[fringe summit]

Are you sure?

They have a fork on GH and already have patches up

Fork of upstream JDK

[surreal wind]

you mean microsoft?

[plain zenith]

java.io.IOException: Failed to download https://resources.download.minecraft.net/28/2842bba36bc93963247f5311e576b6247e737705: HTTP Status Code 304
Why is the asset server returning a 304?

[fringe summit]

Yeah

[thorn sable]

https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/9227cd8311deeabb438138822d1c24e6c59edbd0

[fringe summit]

Is that the NFRT based download?

[plain zenith]

yes

[fringe summit]

Then we have a potential bug

[fast belfry]

I wonder what the changes were for deadmau5, whether they lowered the name tag or added the ears back or what

[fringe summit]

Although I have to double check. Requesting with if modified since makes little sense

Not sure we are even setting the headerr

[surreal wind]

I guess the ms openjdk may appear on the downloads site in a day or 2 (maybe monday)

[fringe summit]

Yeah that is also my hope

[ember lintel]

lol

[winter bear]

classic

[plain zenith]

I'm not currently caching the assets

[mellow rivet]

[Jump to referenced message](#builds message) in #builds

coehlrich referenced · Sep 19, 2025, 11:21 AM

GradleMinecraftDependencies

Build Failed

Version

1.21.9-pre2

Build Branch

main

Quoted · Sep 19, 2025, 11:21 AM

[runic crypt]

Still no Java 25 bump 🙁

[surreal wind]

Microsoft OpenJDK 25 isn't out yet

[runic crypt]

Ahhh

[winter bear]

not publicly at least

[mellow briar]

They're probably not gonna bump java in the prerelease cycle

[surreal patrol]

@thorn sable Primer time: https://github.com/neoforged/.github/pull/29/commits/19266fd632d5344a8655a4c91f23b9308386f3bc

Ignoring the bug fixes, mainly just a y offset for submitting name tags and some minor changes to creating schemas for JSON-RPC

[winter bear]

most likely not, but who knows

but yeah, I'd expect the bump to on the next drop branch

[ember lintel]

https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2647

let's get this merged before doing pre2 since I know pre2 will break it and it will be easier to fix on kits

[fringe summit]

You don't really need to kits though

Just do it in one shot locally

[ember lintel]

we could but working in gitignored files is a pain since you don't know what changed until you gen patches

also who broke :neoforge:createChangelog

[mellow briar]

It looks like it should get proper review

So you'll probably have to fix it when you rebase on top of pre2

[fierce badger]

will neo have/need a way to extend the server management thing

or is it already extensible enough

[gloomy sable]

look at the last embed in this thread

[ember lintel]

I just made a PR to add that

[fringe summit]

Yes, but genPatches takes like.... 1 second?

[keen cloak]

Here's the LevelRenderState PR I alluded to: https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2648.
I also tested the block outline stuff, works as expected and feels fine to use.

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPOcXAzS3Uk

[fervent maple]

Pressing F3+F5 opens the F3 menu editor when the player is already in a chest's inventory, unlike in Minecraft Vanilla.

[keen cloak]

With regards to the reworked RenderLevelStageEvents: we should consider combining the AfterEntities and AfterBlockEntities into one event that fires a couple lines later instead. Currently they are fired after the respective list has submitted its geometry but before it's actually rendered which defeats the purpose of happening after them

Implementing this change is trivial, I'm currently just stuck on finding a name for such an event. From the profiler sections it would make sense to call it AfterFeatures but that's an awfully non-descript and confusing name IMO

[fierce badger]

could u not just call it AfterEntities

folding block entities in

since they could be included in entities

[keen cloak]

I have thought about that, I'm just worried that it may be confusing with respect to the currently existing AfterEntities since it behaves differently to a certain degree.

[gloomy sable]

AfterDynamicsRendered?

[ember lintel]

AfterEntitiesAndBlockEntities

[fair dew]

AfterDeferredEntities?

[fierce badger]

how different is it?

like what would simply changing AfterEntities break

cuz u said its a few lines later

and is the event changing enough that things will break anyways like via parameters or something

cuz if so theyll have to look over the change anyways and can be told about the shift

otherwise they may not read the blog post 😔

[thorn sable]

so are we expecting 21.9 full release tomorrow? saw lime was working on the full release video on stream yesterday at least

[orchid adder]

(pre-)releases aren't on the normal Tuesday cadence, so maybe it's tomorrow, maybe not

i don't think they also released a specific date

[mental saddle]

If I was a betting man I’d put money on this weekend.

[thorn sable]

yeah, i was thinking since mc live is this weekend iirc
that 21.9 would be dropping sometime this week
and day would make more sense than any other

[keen cloak]

I would expect at least one RC before full release

[vernal sinew]

New version detected: 1.21.9-pre3.

[shrewd dirge]

https://kids.earth.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Untitled-683-×-1024px-1024-×-683px-2023-07-26T184215.475-900x600.jpg

[cyan ether]

<@&1067092163520909374>

[broken nest]

noo

I don't want to update my mod

[shrewd dirge]

the render rewrites will continue until morale improves

[thorn sable]

1.21.9 - Pre Release 3

• Primer: https://github.com/ChampionAsh5357/neoforged-github/blob/update/219-or-22/primers/1.21.9/index.md
• Article: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-21-9-pre-release-3
• Changelog: https://misode.github.io/versions/?id=1.21.9-pre3
• Notion: https://apexmodder.notion.site/2524f070f88880648482e3cbdcba566a?v=2524f070f88880b29f60000c52785ecb&p=2764f070f8888073bd6ac0a62aba2dfb&pm=c
• SnowMan: https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/e4a838591c62bf24669ccf9db40a8f321efb6c58

SlicedLimes Videos:

• Main: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYTw2qmEU6o
• Pack: N/A

[surreal wind]

pre3 :gasp:

[ember lintel]

rc1 this week (tomorrow maybe) and release this or next week (saturday is minecraft live so around then)

[surreal wind]

tiny changelog

I guess rc1 on thursday has gone up to like 90% chance

maybe even tomorrow

[ember lintel]

rc1 tomorrow is at ~40%

[surreal patrol]

No primer since it's all just bug fixes in new classes

[tacit garden]

primer typo: otherwise, an error will be through whenever

[high tide]

https://tenor.com/view/this-fucking-sucks-crying-girl-tears-of-joy-clapping-danny-devito-gif-12766761978490409957

[vernal sinew]

Minecraft 1.21.9 Pre-Release 3

We'll kick the week off with a third pre-release for the Copper Age Drop. This pre-release includes a performance update and bug fix for the copper golem.Fixed bugs in 1.21.9 Pre-Release 3MC-301963 Copper golems cause huge lag spikes when checking chestsMC...

Sep 22, 2025, 1:30 PM

[surreal wind]

yes we know

[keen cloak]

This feels like a really odd way to fix the occlusion issue considering that BlockBehaviour.Properties#noOcclusion() exists 🤔

[surreal wind]

noOcclusion may have other effects? 🤔

[mellow briar]

maybe the code is so convoluted that even mojang devs make mistakes 😄

[shrewd dirge]

the codebase is so huge that the average mojang dev is aware of about as much of it as the average modder

[keen cloak]

It additionally sets a flag indicating whether the block can occlude or not which seems desirable to have set to false in this case

[surreal wind]

this seems to be the only place where the flag is used

in 1.21.8 that is

I don't have a 1.21.9 at hand

[keen cloak]

There are three more related to spawning particles (crying obsidian, wet sponge, leaves)

[surreal wind]

yeah but those are already implemented in Block classes

so not side-effects that would matter here

[keen cloak]

Fair

[cyan ether]

inb4 mojang will also introduce 3 different methods for Item#use with different prefixes because everyone keeps forgetting the others exist

[keen cloak]

maty, go look at keybinds

[high tide]

That is worrying

[cyan ether]

I refuse.

[plain zenith]

gradle really likes to download alpine linux jdks on linux distributions that are not alpine linux

[keen cloak]

The context provided by the event is changed rather significantly since it has to be changed to adhere to the same split architecture (extract first, render later) that vanilla uses now. With that said, I forgot a crucial detail last night when I mentioned the difference in timing: I only took into account the current, problematic state of the port, not what it looks like in 1.21.8. The difference to 1.21.8 in terms of timing is actually very low since it fires after rendering there as well. Re-using AfterEntities is therefore, contrary to my prior statement, not bad at all and I'll go with that for now.

[blazing vector]

when 1.21.9 gets released should we make a new channel for it and above?

as 1.21.3 and 1.21.9 has lot of difference by now

[surreal wind]

we don't want to have too many channels

most people that are modding in 1.21.2+ are modding in the latest version

[fierce badger]

yeah the channels r for LTS versions

despite neo supposedly not having those

its a good indicator

[surreal wind]

not LTS, just like, whatever people are actively modding on that deserves one

[fierce badger]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-pam-beesly-theyre-the-same-picture-same-picture-the-same-gif-21639622

[cursive nimbus]

Good idea, let's just delete all channels beyond modder-support -others

[shrewd dirge]

for context old forge's LTS policy was like

• a version is declared LTS by forge for a period of time
• backports are permitted to LTS versions only
• nobody is allowed to ask questions about any version except latest and LTS

[fierce badger]

🙄

thats not what im asking for

[cursive nimbus]

That's what LTS means

[fierce badger]

forge did a lot of weird stuff

[shrewd dirge]

right, which is why making sure everyone is talking about the same thing is important

[fierce badger]

i just want a version people know its safe to stick to

which rn is 1.21.1 and has been for years

[cursive nimbus]

Problem solved

The community is handling that

[fierce badger]

except its 2 years old

[cursive nimbus]

No need for Neo to step in

[fierce badger]

im not having this argument again jesus

[cursive nimbus]

Get the community to agree on which next version to mod for

[fierce badger]

neo did step in

[gritty swan]

21.1 is still LTS because there have been massive refactors and there hasn't been a particularly stable version yet

[cursive nimbus]

You are the one that keeps bringing it up

[tiny wing]

tbf, most of the same people here, used to work on forge

[cursive nimbus]

I'd argue incorrect - 21.1 is no more LTS than any other 21.x version is

[gritty swan]

Lots of people are trying, but as long as the huge changes are coming we probably won't see another LTS until vibrant visuals

[cursive nimbus]

We support all of them equally, we backport to all of them equally etc

[fierce badger]

yeah its less the people and more the ideals im referring to

[cursive nimbus]

Unless by LTS you mean "Current Community Major"

In which case, yeah

[gritty swan]

Historically LTS meant a version that modders and community both settled on and built packs and stable features

[shrewd dirge]

a while back a bunch of modpacks went "okay let's stay on 1.21.1 until 1.22 comes out"

[cursive nimbus]

Based on that definition, 1.7.10 is still LTS

[fierce badger]

mod loaders are part of the community

[cursive nimbus]

And I'd argue that's incorrect

[shrewd dirge]

and 1.22 hasn't come out yet

[fierce badger]

idk why u act like they dont or shouldnt get a say in things

theyre run by the community

for the community

[cursive nimbus]

I disagree

Mod loaders should have no say

Modders themselves may

[shrewd dirge]

if they're run by the community then the community doesn't need to go through the modloader to declare a stable version

[cursive nimbus]

They're two different things

[shrewd dirge]

they can just declare a stable version without involving the modloader, which they have

[fierce badger]

thats not true

neo declared 1.21.1 stable

[cursive nimbus]

We made a mistake there

Yeah

[gritty swan]

Anyway, a bunch of modders (myself included) are starting to get up to speed on 21.8 and 21.9, so we might see some new movement. I guess people are realizing more and more that Mojang isn't slowing down any time soon

[fierce badger]

doesnt change the fact that it happened and set the LTS

now being silent is taken as keeping the modloader-determined LTS where it is

[cursive nimbus]

It also doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't happen again, IMO

Would you prefer an announcement of "people, port to whatever version you want"?

[gritty swan]

Modders will port whenever they damn well please

[cursive nimbus]

That's the point, Nano

[shrewd dirge]

and modpacks will use whichever version they want

[gritty swan]

If you try to control that, you WILL become an enemy in many peoples' eyes

[cursive nimbus]

Tommy is arguing that we should tell people when it's better to port

And IMO that's a no-no

[gritty swan]

Agreed, Silk. "LTS" or not, modders won't care. They see a new version with features they want or can use, it's going to happen

[fierce badger]

sure, something to say that neo no longer recommends sticking to 1.21.1 as the future of stable/major versions are uncertain and that neo does not have a specific LTS

(probably after MC Live when 1.21.9 is released as they just might announce a major and make my point moot)

[cursive nimbus]

The fact is, we accidentally did that in 1.21.1 because Tech said "do not neglect 1.21.1" or something like that

And many people in the team didn't really like it

[fierce badger]

thats not true, some modders want something to follow, which is sometimes big mods like create or sometimes the mod loader's recommendation

not all modders wont care

[cursive nimbus]

Be the change you want to be in the world

Port up

Be loud

Say "follow me"

[fierce badger]

im not one of those modders lol

im porting when my deps r done

im saying for others

[shrewd dirge]

[fierce badger]

people ive spoken to

[cursive nimbus]

Then let the others come and complain

Or tell those others yourself

[gritty swan]

Let me give you a reality check: every country has laws or rights that people don't agree with, too, and those get argued about all the time too. And some of those have existed for hundreds of years.

And yet...

[cursive nimbus]

Otherwise it feels like just arguing for the sake of arguing

For a target audience that might be idk five modders lol

[fierce badger]

im just saying it was an announcement that set an LTS so there should be one to un-set it imo

[gritty swan]

The past happened. Some people liked the "LTS" and some people complain. Some agree, some disagree. It's in the past though. Hindsight.

[cursive nimbus]

Most people I know that are on 1.21.1 are staying there voluntarily not because of Neo but because "can't be fucked keeping up with Mojang refactoring everything every two months"

[shrewd dirge]

If people want to port their mods to latest, they do. If they don't, they don't. Nothing we say will change that

[cursive nimbus]

So the LTS has already been "unset" by the fact that people are not following Neo

They are following their laziness

As they should, I might add

[shrewd dirge]

I have mods on 1.21.8. What is neo going to do, punch me in the face?

[cursive nimbus]

I can punch you in the face for free if you want to

[shrewd dirge]

already tested that hypothesis, getting punched in the face doesn't make me stop doing things

[cursive nimbus]

What about getting punched in other areas?

[gritty swan]

time to go shake a cane at all these people that aren't staying on LTS /s

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYTw2qmEU6o

[sleek shore]

i ain't even on the list smh

[frigid mulch]

Oh, nice, time to update my integration :D! Sorry, very off-topic, but keep meaning to ask — is there any tips for migrating from the old API to exmachina, or is the best option just to look at the git diff between old and new versions?

[shrewd dirge]

I think it's become increasingly finagled

I need to write up docs for it yet so I can try to make it make sense but I haven't yet

in any case everything has javadocs

also behaviors are assigned through blocks via a datamap instead of capabilities now

[frigid mulch]

Yeah, it was more about mapping concepts rather than the individual components.

[shrewd dirge]

okay so first there's the exmachina:signal_component datamap

there's a registry for SignalComponent types

[frigid mulch]

Ahh, thank you. Yeah, I hadn't fully appreciated that until reading the docs. Okay, that sounds like it's going to be more than one evening's work. I will figure it out, dw :). Thank you!

[shrewd dirge]

oh I found some docs I forgot I wrote, they're not very comprehensive though https://moddedmc.wiki/en/project/morered/latest/docs/mod_development/api_reference#The_Signal_Graph

in any case, by these means I did finally resolve that issue you opened re: the block updates are too damn high

[fringe summit]

Any reason not to push the update to pre3? I just did it, no rejects.

[keen cloak]

I just didn't get to it yet, I would have looked into it tomorrow. From my side, feel free to push it, just please fix the version to not say 21.5

[steep wing]

I think you should not care about version
It's your mod

I've had people say to me, "You should set the version of your mod to recommended," but I think it's best to ignore the strange reactions they get because the version is different.

[ember lintel]

hmm no 🐸

[keen cloak]

@graceful ibex since you implemented the previous version of this API, do you mind taking a look at https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2641?

[vernal sinew]

New version detected: 1.21.9-pre4.

[thorn sable]

1.21.9 - Pre Release 4

• Primer: https://github.com/ChampionAsh5357/neoforged-github/blob/update/219-or-22/primers/1.21.9/index.md
• Article: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-21-9-pre-release-4
• Changelog: https://misode.github.io/versions/?id=1.21.9-pre4
• Notion: https://apexmodder.notion.site/2524f070f88880648482e3cbdcba566a?v=2524f070f88880b29f60000c52785ecb&p=2774f070f8888007a519d5aa58bfc898&pm=c
• SnowMan: https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/63cf18bd3e1bf5feb65bc04d6e43be6ecd92eb32

SlicedLimes Videos:

• Main: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9Fhb8zmII
• Pack: N/A

||<@&1067092163520909374>||

[tiny wing]

uwu

[median sluice]

Another pre release???

[broken nest]

[ashen bison]

Huh 😭

[broken nest]

incoming

[thorn sable]

we all thought full release but mojang be like, what about 2nd 4th pre release

[ashen bison]

Hopefully there's a good reason in the code

[keen cloak]

This not being the full release was to be expected since there hasn't been an RC yet

[vernal sinew]

Minecraft 1.21.9 Pre-Release 4

Here is another Pre-Release for 1.21.9 with more bugfixes!ChangesUIDebug Options screen is now accessible using F3 + F6, instead of the previous F3 + F5Fixed bugs in 1.21.9 Pre-Release 4MC-300216 The new F3 + F5 debug settings menu does not open on Mac key...

Sep 23, 2025, 3:18 PM

[ashen bison]

Debug UI changes keybinds

Thats about it

[thorn sable]

https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/63cf18bd3e1bf5feb65bc04d6e43be6ecd92eb32

[shrewd dirge]

does mac hardcode F3+F5 to do something else

[keen cloak]

No, it apparently hardcodes Fn+F5 to some system function when the system is configured to require holding Fn to use the "raw" F keys instead of their special functions (the idiotic default that's also used by a lot of Windows laptops nowadays)

[surreal patrol]

@thorn sable Take your primer: https://github.com/neoforged/.github/pull/29/commits/70168a76906d0ff11e188707621a0e45f25d9dd1

Basically, special model renderers now take in the outline color

[ember lintel]

that's why I prefer toggle style fn

[keen cloak]

Those still have the stupid default though

[graceful ibex]

So, the code looks fine but I can't for the life of me figure out where RegisterTextureAtlasesEvent is fired to check how it's used, and GitHub isn't being helpful either

[keen cloak]

It's fired in the constructor of AtlasManager

[graceful ibex]

Ah, under gatherTextureAtlases? I seeeee

[keen cloak]

Yup

[ashen vault]

It's actually convenient because you use function keys for things like spotlight or music playback more often than raw buttons

[graceful ibex]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to make the backing data structure a LinkedHashMap<RL, config> so that we don't have to do the loop/compare every time

At least on the event side, when it gets passed back to vanilla we can translate it to a List<AtlasConfig>

[keen cloak]

We could do that, yes

[graceful ibex]

I dunno if it's necessarily worth it though

At the very least, it would make the check for duplicate atlases easier

Shrug. Either way, I'm fine with the change as is, so I'll approve it, and if you want to tweak it to use a map go ahead

[surreal wind]

so, pre4 today, huh? I guess rc1 thursday.

[winter bear]

I don't

[keen cloak]

Decided to change it to a map. Didn't invalidate the approval though.

[graceful ibex]

Neat

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9Fhb8zmII

[ember lintel]

||is a mod formerly by vazkii||

[fervent maple]

Will the fix for MC-161917 be reimplemented or not?

[keen cloak]

Not sure yet, though definitely very unlikely to happen before the 1.21.9 release.
As far as I'm aware, IMS has found a way to fix it in the new particle system but I'm not just gonna copy that into Neo without at the very least asking him.

[fervent maple]

Iris is LGPL, so it's fine

[winter bear]

It's still not nice tho?

[fervent maple]

It depends; there are always two sides to every story.
On the one hand, a developer kindly makes their work available to others without any restrictions.
On the other hand, you are using someone else's work without asking their permission.

Everyone has their own pov.

[runic crypt]

pre release 4?

[novel bane]

it causes Some Weirdness with custom (non-quad) particles

notably, I had to hardcode the second pass to ignore item pickups otherwise they'd be drawn twice

(which is... fine for Vanilla, if not performance costing, but caused issues with shaders)

[fierce badger]

we simply wait for fabulous mode to be removed and vanilla will add it

[fervent maple]

Release candidate today?

[ember lintel]

or tomorrow, it's 50/50

[thorn sable]

1.21.9 - Release Candidate 1

• Primer: https://github.com/ChampionAsh5357/neoforged-github/blob/update/219-or-22/primers/1.21.9/index.md
• Article: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-21-9-release-candidate-1
• Changelog: https://misode.github.io/versions/?id=1.21.9-rc1
• Notion: https://apexmodder.notion.site/2524f070f88880648482e3cbdcba566a?v=2524f070f88880b29f60000c52785ecb&p=2794f070f8888023b59bd08e9f8eca27&pm=c
• SnowMan: https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/9857185387079527a8606cbaa4a587040e344fc5

SlicedLimes Videos:

• Main: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNM8xiegswc
• Pack: N/A

||<@&1067092163520909374>||

[static dagger]

🤣 🤣 🤣

[inner hearth]

50% of the time, every time

[ashen bison]

What R the chances of rc2?

[median sluice]

STOP THE SNAPSHOT THING

JUST RELEASE

IT

[ashen bison]

Well this is RC so....

[tiny wing]

uwu

[naive mountain]

Pre release and now release candidate?? What’s next? Pre-publish??

[vernal sinew]

New version detected: 1.21.9-rc1.

[median sluice]

Then publish-candidate

[ashen bison]

And that's usually the release

[fading dew]

Do you want them to have to release more hotfix versions?

[ashen bison]

No thanks 😭

[fading dew]

That’s what I thought.

[median sluice]

I js want them to eork more than 1 hour a day

[ashen bison]

Thing is hotfixes aren't even hotfixes anymore they are complete rewrites

[fading dew]

They do, I’m sure.

[ember lintel]

Do you think they don't work between snapshots?

[surreal wind]

yay rc1, my guess was correct!

[ionic bay]

[fringe summit]

ITT people never having been around for a minecraft release.

[ember lintel]

Monday release

[fringe summit]

btw. learning: dont make the same mistake next time and dont include the pre1 in the next porting branch 😄

now you made it, as I had done the last time around hehehe

[thorn sable]

https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/9857185387079527a8606cbaa4a587040e344fc5

[ember lintel]

Pin it in the next version post so we don't forget

[vernal sinew]

Minecraft 1.21.9 Release Candidate 1

We are now releasing the first, and hopefully only, release-candidate for 1.21.9. If all goes well, no further changes will be made before the full release. Happy mining!Fixed bugs in 1.21.9 Release Candidate 1MC-302243 Creakings can spawn with the "spawnM...

Sep 25, 2025, 2:02 PM

[winter bear]

quite low unless there are critical bugs

[winter bear]

live release

[thorn sable]

21.9 release tomorrow in time for mc live on 27th?

[winter bear]

no, during mc live

[ashen vault]

java 25 when????? 😡

[winter bear]

1.21.10/1.22

[ashen vault]

[tiny wing]

whenever MS has created a public build

[winter bear]

there is no microsoft java build yet

[gritty swan]

21.12 when

[tiny wing]

and mojang has started to port it

[winter bear]

500 days

[thorn sable]

we getting 21.9 soon but nano is out here living in the future where 21.10/11 has dropped

[keen cloak]

There is and has been for longer than Adoptium

[gritty swan]

I'm a robot of course I'm living in the future

[winter bear]

for J25 I mean?

[keen cloak]

Yes

[winter bear]

well, not here https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/java/openjdk/download

[keen cloak]

The JDK selection in IDEA listed it when I checked a couple days ago

[winter bear]

well, ok, doesn't change the fact that it's gonna the be in the next mc version at the earliest

[ashen vault]

only java 21 😢

[tiny wing]

a robot furry? /j

[gritty swan]

I mean.. yeah? I don't hide anything there. Nanite swarm gryphon. @robotgryphon. Thought it was kinda obvious.

[keen cloak]

Welp, seems like I can't read, it's indeed just J21. Ignore me then 😅

[winter bear]

I do wonder if they already have a J25 branch using a different JDK

[ember lintel]

1.21.10 already confirmed?

[surreal patrol]

@thorn sable Take your update: https://github.com/neoforged/.github/pull/29/commits/f1e3eb0a9df4179f74e53cf095a600c0926e4972

One revert and a new delegate

[thorn sable]

no need to ping me on primer updates anymore btw
ive changed from linking the commit changes for a given version
to linking to the primer md file at latest revision
-# also i see the primer updates via github notifs for the prs

[surreal patrol]

Gotcha gotcha

[fervent maple]

https://youtu.be/VNM8xiegswc

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNM8xiegswc

[broken nest]

rc1??

[surreal wind]

yes, they often release rc1 on thursday and then release on tuesday

[frosty cypress]

(I wouldnt be totally shocked if they did a release on Saturday, but I expect tuesday per normal)

[surreal wind]

yeah

I was kindof expecting rc1 on tuesday and release on thursday ahead of the Live

[thorn sable]

How likely we thinking 21.9 drops during mc live tomorrow?

I’ve got a wedding to attend all day and wont be able to post usual pin if it drops

[mellow briar]

Extremely unlikely

Who wants to hotfix stuff on the weekend

[surreal wind]

releasing tomorrow would mean the mojang employees have to be at work on a saturday

ready to put out the fires

[winter bear]

Counterargument: would be funny

[shrewd dirge]

the Path of Exile devs always release major updates on friday for some reason

and literally every time they have to hotfix stuff over the weekend

[craggy stone]

ok see.

tomorrow 1.21.9 then mojang announces 1.22

so 1.21.9 will be last version of 1.21.x and from then mojang will develop 1.22

???

Profit

Hope

[tiny wing]

I mean....
if they are at MC Live, they are liekly working already, and it is very likely they will be there regardless

[tiny wing]

no wait, why not 1.21.10?

[surreal wind]

the "Live" isn't actually live, so far as I know, it's all prerecorded

[thorn sable]

Then why call it mc live wtf

[surreal wind]

also if they are at the Live they aren't at the offices doing development work

[shrewd dirge]

they were live when they recorded it

[sturdy wave]

Well do you want Minecraft Dead or Minecraft Live?

[tiny wing]

well it used to be actually a massive event

where people all over the world came to it

[ember lintel]

Some parts are prerecorded some are live and they are not live from the mojang offices where java edition is developed but from the US office

[tiny wing]

then I believe covid hit the scene, and then yeah, things went way more digital

[winter bear]

no no, we need 1.21.12 first

[surreal wind]

minecon stopped before then

2016 was the last actual event

it was called different things after

minecon earth, then minecon live, then minecraft live

[tiny wing]

fair

[surreal wind]

speaking of earth, I never got to play Minecraft Earth

my phone at the time didn't support ARKit at all

or ARCore whichever the android one is

and then when I upgraded to a new phone (early 2022) it was already dead

[tiny wing]

ArCore

I can get you an APK file

should be on FileDroid or whatever that site was called

only problem might be account

[winter bear]

I didn't wanna bother

[surreal wind]

my current phone does have ARCore

oh you mean Earth

well if you can't access the servers anymore then uh

[mental saddle]

I didn’t even realize it was a phone thing. I thought it was attached to glasses I knew I could never afford

[winter bear]

yeah, I could have played it at the time, but didn't want to

[tiny wing]

I do not know, they likely still work, because the app mostly works offline, its just the auth, which happens through MS accounts

worth a try, ngl

then again, sites with apk's exist

[fair dew]

is both an option?

[surreal wind]

Minecraft Schrödinger

[jagged sable]

MInecraft Cat

[static dagger]

Schrödinger's mine

[broken nest]

1.21.9 = 1.(21.5).9

[blazing vector]

??

[surreal wind]

wat?

1.21.8 was a hotfix for 1.21.6, but 1.21.6 was not 1.21.5, and neither is 1.21.9

[blazing vector]

what should i change if i want to continue from $BRANCH version

java -jar snowblower-2.0.28-all.jar --output output/$BRANCH --branch $BRANCH --start-over-if-required --start-ver $START --exclude "**.nbt"

wrong channel peobably

[fading dew]

Only until you start watching it.

[fervent maple]

Mojang will probably release Minecraft 1.21.10 before 1.22.

[surreal wind]

it is likely that there will be a hotfix for 1.21.9

[vivid niche]

Just you wait, in a few hours they're gonna announce 1.22 and stop the update drop system

[surreal wind]

unwarranted hope just leads to disappointment

[winter bear]

so J25 in 1.21.11/1.22

[surreal wind]

if my guess is correct

[blazing vector]

not gonna happen. Drop system is here to stay

they made even a video on there channel explaning what drops are

modding community has to adapt

[vivid niche]

Let me dream, realistically its gonna be 1 mob and 2 items

[winter bear]

and 500 backend changes

which are the interesting part for modders

[surreal wind]

really the only annoying thing is that there's no point of stability for the more conservative modders to target

the current tech progress is great

[fervent maple]

September 30

[thorn sable]

this upcoming Tuesday (<t:1759244400:R>)

[fervent maple]

yeap

[fierce badger]

no new versioning

kms

[tacit garden]

the spear is more like a lance with how it's used

[surreal patrol]

That animation on the nautilus from minecraft live is very clever

And based on what I can tell, the spear just seems like a reskinned trident apparently my mind blanked, ignore

Though, I'm not sure what the recipe for that will be if there is one, mabye two sticks and an ingot diagonally?

Well, for the nautilus, I hope they at least refactor PlayerRideable since the happy ghast implementation just does its own thing

[vivid niche]

they showed it, its that

[surreal patrol]

Huh, definitely missed that

Wait, I missed the entire spear section

How'd that happen

[fringe summit]

Updated the porting branch to 1.21.9-rc1

(no rejects)

[sleek shore]

would neo exist if source control wasn't a thing

[jagged sable]

very likely not, at least not in its current form

[ember lintel]

Ok, what's the state of the loader stuff? I think that should go in before release.
How are the reviews for my ManagementApi PR coming along?

[fringe summit]

It already did go in

[ancient dawn]

Only loader stuff that's still in the pipeline iirc is my transformer work and that's all ready for review and whatnot.

Speaking of which -- @fringe summit or someone else, can you re-open https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2655 pointing at the 1.21.9 port branch? It got closed when the FML staging PR was merged

Or I can just open a new PR, lemme know if that's easier

[mellow briar]

done

[ancient dawn]

Ugh I'm gonna have to rebase that aren't I

Gimme a sec

[ancient dawn]

The transformation stuff is in https://github.com/neoforged/FancyModLoader/pull/358 with corresponding neo PR https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2655 and is ready for review

The relevant modder-facing changes are some adjustments to how you write coremods, though in general your java coremods won't change too much. I've got a gist with the changes you'll need.

[fierce badger]

Minecraft tomorrow

[ember lintel]

yo mojangstas, first snapshot for mounts of mayhem when?

/s

[fierce badger]

tomorrow

true mayhem would be releasing the update and the next snapshot at the same time

[modest pasture]

Next week?

1.21.11 let's go

[thorn sable]

i may or may not miss 21.9 release tomorrow, all my shit decided to shit the bed and not work
my truenas server is down, which also means all my hosted services too (cause storage), my pc wont boot and for what ever reason my isp blocks iso downloads on my laptop, never blocked them before on my gaming pc
so ive got a fun time ahead of me diagnosing all this and getting all my stuff back up and running

[surreal wind]

I'm definitely missing it

[fervent maple]

#1378294669053792337 message Is it possible to fix this?

[mellow rivet]

lolothepro30

[Jump to referenced message](#1378294669053792337 message) in #1378294669053792337

Sep 19, 2025, 8:05 PM

[ember lintel]

who did the keybind stuff?

[winter bear]

as in which mojangsta?

ah no

which porting team member

[keen cloak]

I did, why?

[ember lintel]

I think it could be an issue in the input handler patches

[keen cloak]

Maybe. I intended to look into this but I haven't had time yet

[ember lintel]

1. will you be able before tomorrow?
2. is this a release blocking bug?

[keen cloak]

1. Almost certainly
2. No

[winter bear]

it's just a bit annoying (if that)

[keen cloak]

Meh, pressing F3+F6 while in a screen is very unlikely to happen accidentally

[fervent maple]

There is the same bug with F3+F4

[winter bear]

What about the other debug keys?

[keen cloak]

I've narrowed down the cause to our patch in AbstractContainerScreen#keyPressed():
In vanilla this method returns true:

• When super.keyPressed() returns true
• When the inventory key (E by default) is pressed
• Unconditionally after checking offhand swap hotbar slot, pick and drop keys
  With the patch the unconditional return is changed to only return true if any of the checked "handlers" actually did something. This is necessary to make ScreenEvent.KeyPressed.Post work and as such this cannot be fixed without breaking an API.
  In contrast to this, any non-container screen can be "overwritten" by the debug config screen (except ones returning false from Screen#canInterruptWithAnotherScreen()), the gamemode switcher or any other screen in both vanilla and NeoForge.

And yes, this applies to all debug keys, not just the debug config screen and gamemode switcher

[mellow briar]

@keen cloak are there a few highlights from vanilla changes that we'd want in the 21.9 blog post?

or any big change to some neoforge API?

I am already planning sections for FML and the transfer rework

[keen cloak]

These are the most important ones I can think of off the top of my head:

• Entity renderers and BERs now submit to a "collector" which then handles the rendering later for improved batching
• BERs now have separate extraction and submission like entity renderers
• Custom block outline rendering works a bit differently now (https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2643)
• Level rendering in general is separated into an extraction and a render phase with various render states

One change that's not merged yet but which I'd like to get in either before release or shortly after is reworking our level render hooks to match the split level rendering (https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2648)

[mellow briar]

ok thanks that should be enough for me to work with

[wide vine]

what about key mapping? Where did that end up, do custom categories still require an enum extension? Or did mojang switch it to a registry for us or something

[keen cloak]

Key mapping categories are a record now and RegisterKeyMappingsEvent has a register method for them

But yes, good point, I completely forgot about that

[static dagger]

[thorn sable]

[ember lintel]

I'd say T-29 minutes until release

[novel bane]

so

what's going on with the articles

[shrewd dirge]

the articles have always been corbed for me

[novel bane]

it's just those few snapshots

[sly nimbus]

Hey, does anyone have issues with container menu synchronization in 1.21.9-rc1?
It seems that there is a race condition with neoforges system to handle custom container GUIs

[novel bane]

and the stuff related to 1.18

[ember lintel]

make an issue with more details on github so we don't miss it

[sly nimbus]

Ok, i just wanted to make sure if its not caused by my incompetence 😄

[ember lintel]

they are late

[wide vine]

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-a-wizard-is-never-later-gif-11324448

[thorn sable]

wouldnt say so, they just said they are releasing today, no time
only snapshots are tuesday ~3pm (my time) afaik
otheres are whenever

[winter bear]

Well, I guessed completely wrong

but maybe they encountered a critical bug

[wide vine]

Or decided to yolo bump to J25

[fierce badger]

i wonder if theyre waiting to release bedrock at the same time

[tiny wing]

they are not late
you are early

[thorn sable]

1.21.9 - Copper Age

• Primer: https://github.com/ChampionAsh5357/neoforged-github/blob/update/219-or-22/primers/1.21.9/index.md
• Article: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-java-edition-1-21-9
• Changelog: https://misode.github.io/versions/?id=1.21.9
• Notion: https://apexmodder.notion.site/2524f070f88880648482e3cbdcba566a?v=2524f070f88880b29f60000c52785ecb&p=2754f070f88880b4b4e3e4e5d98e5b33&pm=c
• SnowMan: https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/cf8e953561315c86d91e68174bbd9163ebbacf9f

SlicedLimes Videos:

• Main: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJdWQXbtSA8
• Pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcE-KOlGh_I

||<@&1067092163520909374>||

[ashen bison]

Lovely

[fierce badger]

eyyyyy

[high tide]

Neo when

[wide reef]

[high tide]

GAHAHAHAHJAHA

[cyan ether]

less than an hour

[high tide]

Good boy

[ashen bison]

🥀

[vernal sinew]

New version detected: 1.21.9.

[cyan ether]

there it goes

[broken nest]

[thorn sable]

why the stabs? if you dont want pings, dont have the role

[broken nest]

not that

new release makes me

busy

[high tide]

Man I have to go through 1.21.6-1.21.9

Not fun

[surreal patrol]

No changes in the primer

[ashen bison]

Yh ggs

Or pray you don't have much rendering code

[high tide]

I weep

[ashen bison]

😭😭

[broken nest]

my mod has a logic that zombies destroy chests

copper chest?

[fierce badger]

no

zombies break wooden doors but not iron ones

thats a good way for them to protect their chests

[ember lintel]

do they break copper doors?

[fierce badger]

doubt

[tiny wing]

big uwu

[broken nest]

[thorn sable]

https://github.com/neoforged/Snowman/commit/cf8e953561315c86d91e68174bbd9163ebbacf9f

[ember lintel]

ok update checklist:

• ✔️ rebased
• ✔️ neoform
• ✔️ maty pushes onto main
• ✔️ no blockers

[high tide]

Neoflorb good friend for baby

[cyan ether]

• yes
• building
• I'll do it as soon as neoform finishes and I get the game decompiled and running locally (with any eventual patch offset updates if the release isn't identical to the last rc)
• no

(the game is currently decompiling locally, neoform built)

[high tide]

Put baby in neoforp mouth

[mellow briar]

alright time to continue writing the blog post

will probably be delayed by a few hours

[ember lintel]

We'll do the announcement when the post is ready

[cyan ether]

one day we should fix that

[ember lintel]

I think that's a #moddevgradle-dev issue

[fringe summit]

It's more complex than it seems, but we should check if that doesn't just need a bump

[ember lintel]

mojang...

[mellow briar]

it's likely a neodev-exclusive issue

but I cannot say for sure 😄

[ember lintel]

doesn't mean more people know how to fix it

[cyan ether]

I don't think so but yeah we've looked at it in the past and it's more complicated

[mellow briar]

was there already an entity render state in 1.21.8?

[keen cloak]

Yes

[surreal wind]

woo 1.21.9!

[keen cloak]

IIRC, entity render states were introduced in 21.6

[cyan ether]

alright, that's a decompile done, opening in intellij

[mellow briar]

is all level rendering migrated to various forms of render state?

[keen cloak]

Yes, except for debug renderers

That's why our level render hooks need to get the same treatment

[ember lintel]

which is confirmed to change in the next drop again

[keen cloak]

Yup

[mellow briar]

oh the render state is mutable

wtf 😄

[ember lintel]

of course it is, allocations would be worse there

[keen cloak]

You can expect most of them to become immutable in the future. I expect that the only ones staying mutable are item stack, entity and block entity render states, the latter two due to how multiple classes in the inheritance chain of a given renderer fill in some of the data

[high dune]

can someone ping me once there is a 1.21.9 build of neoforge

[ember lintel]

there will be an announcement once the post is done

[keen cloak]

I can reproduce this, the reason why it happens is also very simple: in previous versions the main thread packet handling was done via the "standard" task queue of the relevant side (i.e. either the MinecraftServer or Minecraft) and Neo's handling of custom payloads submitted to that queue as well. In 21.9 vanilla changed this to instead schedule packet handling to a dedicated PacketProcessor per side whose tasks are handled before the "standard" task queue while Neo kept using the "standard" task queue. This means that the custom open screen packet gets handled on the main thread after the vanilla packets related to container content and data. The fix is relatively simple but annoyingly invasive. I'll make a PR fixing this once the initial build is done.

[sly nimbus]

Perfect! Thanks a lot for looking into it!

[cyan ether]

did they update this code and these exceptions again?

[ember lintel]

I had those for the whole snapshot cycle, just ignore them

[cyan ether]

right, it isn't

[keen cloak]

Yes, but the fix is not to suppress them at the logger level again, we should instead set --offlineDeveloperMode in dev

[cyan ether]

add it to the list of things to look at after release

[ember lintel]

we should really keep track of such things in a hackmd pinned in here

[cyan ether]

I'll probably do it myself if my motivation doesn't make continue to work on my simple and yet annoying mc server protocol implementation for camelot

[fading dew]

What is it, then?

[fading dew]

I mean, that image isn’t a title screen, but presumably it depicts something that was, in fact, a title screen.

[ember lintel]

ok, run the gametests, gen patches and were done

[cyan ether]

https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/actions/runs/18135867857/job/51614462357 now we wait

[keen cloak]

Dammit maty, you deleted the porting branch, nuking all PRs made against it in the process

[cyan ether]

yeah that's going to keep happening

we have that option turned on to automatically delete head branches

I guess I'll have to add it to the list of things to temporarily disable

can't you restore it from the PR?

[ember lintel]

that won't restore the PRs

[cyan ether]

the PRs can be reopened if the target branch is restored

which I just have

[keen cloak]

The PRs still exist, they just can't be re-opened nor retargeted without restoring the branch

[cyan ether]

I guess we can either temporarily disable that option in the future or retarget all port prs to main before pushing

[mellow briar]

tsss the classic mistake

just don't delete the branch next time 😛

ah it deleted itself?

I guess that's ok then just 🤷

[cyan ether]

we have that option turned on to automatically delete head branches

[mellow briar]

huh

[surreal wind]

ew turn it off turn it off

[mellow briar]

automatically deleting head branches is usually good

[zenith bolt]

Automatically?

[cyan ether]

retargeted the PRs that were closed

#neoforge all the "needs rebase"

sign of an invasive update

#builds message stupid webhook

[mellow rivet]

[Jump to referenced message](#builds message) in #builds

matyrobbrt referenced · Sep 30, 2025, 4:02 PM

NeoForge

Build Successful

Version

21.8.65

Build Branch

1.21.x

Commit message

Release 1.21.9

Quoted | Matyrobbrt · Sep 30, 2025, 4:02 PM

[ashen bison]

uh oh

[cyan ether]

the webhook version is computed quickly with a js action so it managed to ran before I pushed the tag

eh, whatever

habemus 1.21.9

and as promised

update within an hour (quite exactly so)

[ashen bison]

That won't include the transfer rework right?

[mellow briar]

let's see if I can find a diff for keybindings

we should have one in the testmods

[keen cloak]

I can give you one in a moment

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLuJbSjo7NA

[fierce badger]

speedy as always yay

tho #builds seems to be wrong

[keen cloak]

See above, that's just the webhook being stupid

[keen cloak]

There ya go, that's all there is to it from the user end

[mellow briar]

@ashen bison I am already fixing stuff locally there's no point reviewing the blog post rn

[mellow briar]

so this is only for categories?

[keen cloak]

For key mappings only the category handling changed

At least as far as mods care. Internally there were some changes to how vanilla handles overlapping key mappings but those don't affect mods

[cyan ether]

@keen cloak https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2667 quick approval

[keen cloak]

Wouldn't it be better to do it at the toolchain level in order to support auth in dev? If I haven't overlooked anything, then that flag kills auth entirely so you can't test with auth anymore if you wanted to

[cyan ether]

that's an.. annoingly fair point

and I don't think you can manipulate runtype-provided args

but I also would really like not having mc version specific stuff like this within the plugins, they're really not meant to be the ones adding options

so uhm

what if we just go back to ignoring those errors in dev again...

[keen cloak]

Looks at additionalRuntimeClasspath's presence being version dependent

[cyan ether]

I'm serious, I'd argue it's less hacky than hardcoding stuff into plugins

or

better idea

-this.offlineDeveloperMode = p_91084_.game.offlineDeveloperMode;
+this.offlineDeveloperMode = p_91084_.game.offlineDeveloperMode || (!FMLEnvironment.isProduction && authShitIsNotSet);

I'm actually buying that a lot

I can't help but notice that you stopped writing xfact

[vernal sinew]

Minecraft: Java Edition 1.21.9

Minecraft has entered The Copper Age! Express yourself in every shade of copper as you transform this versatile metal into handy tools, shiny armor, gleaming light sources, oxidizing decor, smart storage, and even lively mechanical companions known as copp...

Sep 30, 2025, 2:57 PM

[keen cloak]

Sure, that sounds reasonable. Anything is better than hiding the log message of something that (at least in the past) sometimes causes a stall during boot.

[keen cloak]

I had to check something quickly

[cyan ether]

I'm also talking the liberty to yeet this code

reason: it literally doesn't work

(in modern versions the first parameter, which is the username, is forced as a jopt default to a value)

so that code hasn't done anything for a number of years probably greater than 4

[keen cloak]

Oof

[cyan ether]

@keen cloak https://github.com/neoforged/NeoForge/pull/2667

now you can approve

[thorn sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJdWQXbtSA8

[cyan ether]

I did just notice we have two more rendering rejects...

(the weather one is fixed by #2648 so that's fine)

not sure about the overlay one

and the overlay one needs an event rework so that's also "fine"

anywho, closing this now as porting is done™