#4th Dec Alchemist Rework Feedback Thread

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

past matrix
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Also yea having basically no cd on earth is something that may need some intention..

haughty silo
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Ye even with like 270 magic dmg the brutal charms give like +10ish dmg on explosion

past matrix
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If done well you have 1 for each encounter

past matrix
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They don't scale at all

haughty silo
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The charm is only boosting base and not stacks that’s why

cloud magnet
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I think it's fine

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SE that is

past matrix
haughty silo
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I think the charm should just boost the base and the stacks and it’s fine

past matrix
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When shit life lifewood or primeval exist

cloud magnet
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It's not a skill you can throw and forget, you still need to invest potions

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I'm not talking about brutal here

haughty silo
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Maybe need slight nerfs to the multis then too

past matrix
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This just need to change or have huge buff to be worthwhile using, even maybe some nerf to the others greater charm and MAYBE I will use them

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I was so shock at how useless they were

ashen shadow
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aka this patch

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you could just throw one panacea and then leave and get a confirmed room clear

past matrix
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Yea but panacea is like an ultimate skill you know, really high cd but of course things will die quick

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Brutal is like base kit, which should buff everythings else or make pure dot alch playable, but the charm does neither and you just nerf yourself because of opportunity cost

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I don't know how those can exist to get +8damage over time for 3star, like what?

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Rn they need some help

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Gruesome charm doesn't have this problem at least, because they buff the damage really nicely and is good for more supportive alchemist

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More than the brutal in fact which in case is the damage oriented potion..

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Just no.

ashen shadow
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it has a 12s cd gng

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the "ultimate" skill if you are referring to cd would be warding remedy then

past matrix
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Amalgam is also really good, well not for the damage this time but for instant refilling in dire situation or if you messed up really bad or just because rocket jump because fun!

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It was the only great ability before hand so yea not surprising that it is still good and can compared to panacea, earth and such

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It's mostly about the instant refilling for the cause of the long cd

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Cuz otherwise it's just a fun ability, tho the level 2 is really bad and never worth to play..

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Maybe a cd reduction to level 2 would make it worth while to use

ashen shadow
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😭

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its 18s base 14s level 2

past matrix
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Ohh well still not enough lol

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I didn't saw it did get cd reduction lmao

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I would really like a charm for - infinite refilling potion on hit mob but - high cd reduction

ashen shadow
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😭

past matrix
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So it make rocket jumping actually fun

ashen shadow
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i mean it used to drop it down to 5s cd but still

past matrix
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I want fun but also still viable, I don't even ask for like good just viable

haughty silo
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Brutal charms just should boost the stacks too not just the base brutal tick

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That’s the main issue with the charm

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Since the explosion is 3 stacks and the charm only boosting 1 of them is kinda weird

azure nymph
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Will EE(u) becomes too op if it counts the abilities that applies brutal/gruesome(to enemies) too

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You hit allies with AA 2, allies get 2 absorption cause it applies brutal twice, etc

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also a silly idea of charm stat: -1 UA duration withering

azure nymph
mild swan
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tomorrow's update should address people's concerns with elixir being hard to use, and also buff the L2 and Enhancement

opaque zenith
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EnhancementS sounds neat

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They're so lacking on alch rn

mild swan
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typo I meant elixir enhancement

opaque zenith
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:(

mild swan
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why do you find them lacking

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I think they're neat

opaque zenith
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No swapping off bezoar u for me

mild swan
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I think Brutal, Volatile, Artillery, Amalgam, Bezoar, and Tincture enhancements are in a good spot
and Grusome, Elixir are more niche support-type enhancements

mild swan
opaque zenith
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gruesome is just underwhelming, 0.5s stun only on abilities which all have cooldowns and kill most normal mobs, with elites who don't actually die to it and could make use of the stun only getting staggered, which, at only 0.5s is just bad because it basically delays their spells by half a second instead of canceling them

mild swan
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perhaps it could be increased to 1s, but we'll see, definitely not this week

opaque zenith
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tincture is, idk, i dont actually run tincture, but 0.5s stun is once again not that much and the design is weird since you'd usually throw the tincture where you can access it not into mobs so it doesn't get extra value, just a different use case

spare marsh
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I find the enhancement quite nice. Besides, it counts towards Hex Eater

opaque zenith
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you cap out hex eater on alch anyway i think

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volatile enhancement is mostly alright but i wish it could proc on single targets because, well, it was designed for single target

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as of rn you can only proc it if the said target is in a crowd of other mobs which tend to die very fast with alch's kit

mild swan
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yeah volatile enhancement will be able to apply to the same mob tomorrow

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as in twisted targeting itself type of deal

spare marsh
opaque zenith
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ee enhancement is just a support thing and therefore extremely niche in a game where supports are not that needed

mild swan
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I think after tomorrow it has potential to be quite nice in group content

spare marsh
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nod nod

opaque zenith
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brutal enhancement is alright design-wise but it's not that strong, it's an extra like 10 ish damage but only on your abilities that do 70+ damage anyway and likely 1 shot whatever they're aimed at

mild swan
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well yeah if you run very high magic damage, but for lower damage builds it can make you hit breakpoints easier

opaque zenith
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10 is assuming max brutal stacks which you wont have anyway since it's just more optimal to drop abils before finishing stacking brutal

opaque zenith
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brutal also scales with the magic

mild swan
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yeah but the enemy's hp is unchanged

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if you kill it with artillery directly and I don't, I get value out of it

opaque zenith
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artillery enhancement is pretty fun, but i run brines which fully disables it so its out of reach for me and I'm under the impression people run brines with artillery a lot. Not an enhancement issue tho, if artillery was better without brines or had alternative charms that dont disable enhancement functionality chances are it'd be more used

mild swan
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I don't get the hype for brine's gambit honestly

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it just seems annoying to use

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but again preferences are preferences, and that's fine

opaque zenith
opaque zenith
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but artillery does pretty low damage at base

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way too low for 2 pots

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and it has a cooldown so low you won't cast it immediately anyway because once again 2 pots

mild swan
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please do not be like "artillery costs 2 pots so why doesn't it do 2 pots worth of damage"

opaque zenith
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amalgam enhancement is the insane one, or i guess just "good" compared to other classes

mild swan
opaque zenith
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bezoar enhancement is fine by design but i feel like it'd need a bit of polishing like making the stones last longer or increase the pickup range for them, they're as easy to miss as normal bezoars but are far more impotant than those

mild swan
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the added radius is nice though

mild swan
opaque zenith
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yea that's very nice ty sir 🙏

mild swan
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it was a good idea

opaque zenith
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i've also been replaying on an alt with a friend for the past couple of days and i must say r1 alch is very good now

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ive heard people saying it was bad before rework, no idea if that was bs or the rework made it that much better but yeah

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the bag choice is nice as well

mild swan
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r1 alch was very bad especially at low skill points

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lower damage + 2s pot recharge timer

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I was watching a friend play white at level 2 yesterday and like brutal + amalgam is all you need really

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new brutal is so nice at low level

opaque zenith
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there aren't any like, outstanding charms

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i would consider maybe abyssal coral and hotf

mild swan
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this is what I run currently

image.png
opaque zenith
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i have 6cp in creepers so

mild swan
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with shadebound satchel

spare marsh
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people use Oflask?

opaque zenith
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oversized with shadebound... are you tryna clear the entire poi with 1 pot

mild swan
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it's so much fun

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plus it helps scorched fragment radius

opaque zenith
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ive been meaning to try heretical ore, it doesn't seem so bad

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except i dont actually know how much the extra split impacts the dps

mild swan
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it allows you to more easily cap out the scorch timer so you dont need as many pots

opaque zenith
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it's just 1cp and probably doesn't lose that much uptime considerig most of the time you're wasting some se dura

mild swan
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I think it's nice

opaque zenith
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i just dont know if i can drop any of the creeper charms

vast summit
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its not a big upgrade but its not a loss at all basically

opaque zenith
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its such a nice ability with how low its cd is and it being basically free pot-wise

vast summit
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and its 1cp

spare marsh
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I personally like Scarlet Haze, I find it atrocious to use before rework but now that SE has 2 charges by default and it's based I really like it

opaque zenith
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maybe i drop mycelian catalyst since it's net neutral dps for 3cp

spare marsh
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I love MyCata

vast summit
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is it

spare marsh
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it's a fun charm

vast summit
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its + damage no

opaque zenith
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it's not i lied

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nah its

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+1 creeper +50 cd

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i thought it was +100 cd

vast summit
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u dum

opaque zenith
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u furry

vast summit
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tried out fensap

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its more just nice than op honestly

spare marsh
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I actually wanted to change BGambit so badly but I was begged to keep it, so fat artil lives!!!

azure nymph
opaque zenith
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maybe i'll try this

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oversized is nice moreso for vertical range tbh

spare marsh
opaque zenith
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maybe creeper range isnt that necessary

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since u have aoe nukes anyway

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and creepers are mostly there for dps

mild swan
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Btw just saying that creepers kinda accidentally got - 1s cd so it will be reverted tomorrow

opaque zenith
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creeper nerf in the big 2025

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thats unfortunate idt creepers are too strong

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but whatever

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this charm set does feel a lot nicer

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i just removed artillery altogether

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lesser antidote actually makes bezoar u pretty strong even aside from the fact that other enhancements are of little use to me

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that does require a charm but in all fairness there are more charm hungry enhancements in the game

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i shall be the bezoar u enthusiast

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they call me harry potter

obtuse mesa
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when i tried it artillery felt weak overall

vast summit
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is brutal u a tick on top or a tick that was in queue already but instantly

opaque zenith
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95% sure it's a new tick

mild swan
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An additional tick, doesn't affect the duration of the dot at all

vast summit
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mm

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maybe worth it because not finding the philosopher kidney stones that often

opaque zenith
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you're just not harry potter

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you're not the chosen one

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play lesser antidote with it it helps a lot

vast summit
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collapsing fragment is also nice

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mail me lesser anti

opaque zenith
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it's nice but wind aspect knocks mobs out of creeper reach which is sprok

opaque zenith
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u should have 2000000 of those

vast summit
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i dont have it

opaque zenith
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bad at the game.

vast summit
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i dont collect charms

opaque zenith
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ask in wzz i closed my mc

spare marsh
opaque zenith
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i collected enough charms to be able to buy any lesser variation ever then stopped using gatecharm

mild swan
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I dont even have gatecharm I just use barrels in my plot

opaque zenith
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so it just takes a second for the mob to fall down till the creeper can target it

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it's not the end of the world but collapsing doesn't offer me anything extraordinary to put up with that

mild swan
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I like fractal on alch

vast summit
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fractal 2 is decent

opaque zenith
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has about the same uptime as technique on amberlight which im running rn

mild swan
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But I run inversion aegis so I already have that

vast summit
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does hexeater affect abil damage

opaque zenith
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pretty sure it doesn't

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i mean that'd just be the best bag in the game then

vast summit
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yea i just wanted to make sure

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then its not gonna be better than collapsing for me

opaque zenith
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what if i collapse you

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time to play r1 aga

vast summit
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condolences

opaque zenith
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its relatively fun

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when you know what you're doing

vast summit
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i am sorry that happened to you

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actually alch is probably fun enough without specs

mild swan
opaque zenith
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r1 reworks mixed with having prior knowledge mixed with alch now being a good non-vanilla class makes it an actually valid experience

mild swan
opaque zenith
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i would probably still hang myself had i needed to play melee this melee that in r1

mild swan
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I dont understand the r1 hate tbh

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I appreciate the simplicity, and delves are actually difficult

opaque zenith
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it's just a ctm map not a mmorpg most people join for

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and a pretty outdated ctm map as that, nowadays there are so many better ones

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the gameplay is also very similar since you get no abilities 6/8 classes play like vanilla melee with a few abils every ~10s

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the 7th class plays vanilla projectile instead and the 8th is alch

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and uh. the quests are just terrible like im sorry fetch quests have never been and will never be fun

mild swan
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I suppose

opaque zenith
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delves difficulty i guess is not a bad thing? but i'd much rather have that difficulty achieved not via crippling me

vast summit
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i would talk how r3 lacks difficult team content and how that affects viability of support classes negatively and all that

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but that would be akin to saying make this because thats what i want to play

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and wrong place aswell

grim ferry
tiny sky
mild swan
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the absorption system needs a rework

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I plan on doing something about it sometime in the near future

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how have y'all been enjoying the alchemist rework this past week?
I can't believe it's been a week already but I've been having lots of fun

grim ferry
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its peak

opaque zenith
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It is quite peak

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On the surface after reading the chanelog alch rework seemed like the least significant to me

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I soon realized it's much deeper and it almost fixed the class so

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It is quite nice

whole citrus
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@mild swan brilliant changes

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i think we can wrap it up here lmao

cloud magnet
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Anyone tried the new taboo?

fossil shard
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it's q yummy

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steroid feels good to use and you don't even really need the sustaining charm

mild swan
whole citrus
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i mean there's still some minor gripes like UA activation obviously but those will go away with time

mild swan
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well yeah when you're used to things like that it can be hard to relearn, however it's for the better

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cool well enjoy alchemist!!

whole citrus
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and i think VR cooldown is like just a couple seconds too long but yk

mild swan
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I feel like it's fine. I don't think spamming volatile too much is a good idea

short meteor
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It’s long enough that I want to save it for elite encounters only, but short enough that I will get it back for every elite encounter and multiple for twisteds

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I think it’s probably fine at 15s, could definitely be a cool charm to make the single target less but the cooldown is lower

vale glen
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Second Wind/Steadfast alcheyess

half fog
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Playing on perma 1hp 😎

spare marsh
opaque zenith
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Mycelian Catalyst: 50 -> 75% Esoteric Enhancements Cooldown
ehh did creepers really need this on top of base cd nerf

mild swan
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We'll see

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I'll have to play with it a bit more myself

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to be fair they do apply brutal now too so they are pretty strong

fair elm
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Will have to test

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They did feel really good to use before

storm spear
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might switch out mycelian for toxic steroid if i like taboo

opaque zenith
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the answer is they didnt

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they're mostly like a single target dps for me

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and i apply brutal to that myself

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yeah, technically they expedite the stacking but i'd do it myself pretty fast anyway

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it shouldve been like 60% or something if you really wanted to nerf it but 25% is a bit much

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alch already has an abundance of strong high cd abils, creepers felt that good only because they were something weaker but on a much lower cd

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it's like 9s with mycelian now and that's just equal to my amalgam cd with hotf

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i would not say they are as good as amalgam

lament moss
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would yall ever use nwarden or toxin cursed for the regicide on alch

past matrix
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Toxin my beloved

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Those are highly underated for alch

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Even more for Taboo build!

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You gain antikb

mild swan
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Taboo kbr my beloved

lament moss
past matrix
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More damage

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Cuz you are already fine in ehp lol

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But it's a great sub yea

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Well eclipse are also better ehp wise without evasion but veiled might are just a tiny better with it

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But to be frank eclipse were there because I changed an old build of mine that used adaptability

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"elementalist SteadWind" yea def elementalist there kekw

vast summit
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Toxin cursed hp bloat for some damage only for elites vs slap aradian good ehp good speed some damage

haughty silo
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Brim pot feels so good to play now and same with ee. I still think brutal charms need a Quick Look because only boosting the first stack is a little weird and only adds like 10-12 damage to brutal explosions in practice with 250+ magic damage

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Definitely not worth 6 charm power

cold juniper
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Using Mycelian Catalyst feels a little sluggish. Might be better to go for +65% cdr instead of +75% to still achieve creeper having more dt.

opaque zenith
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i dont think it was necessary to begin with

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i mean we just got a 1s base cd nerf

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cd with mycelian went from 6s to 8.75s

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which is nearly 50% more

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it's like amalgam cd with hotf except amalgam is 10x better than 1 creeper cast

willow plover
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90% + 13.5, 9.1s vs 250% + 16, 8.75s
idk thats a big difference

opaque zenith
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If you avoid the fact that amalgam has an enhancement and a very fucking strong one as that, as well as pretty much fully refilling your pots unless you're terrible at using it, yeah that is a big difference

mild swan
olive panther
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and maybe something minor as well

young sandal
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Even beyond wind aspect the creeper not being able to target mobs not on the same y level causes a lot of stupid interactions, like this one

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Its not this bad in normal combat, but this shows it best

mild swan
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there isn't much I can do about this I don't think

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but in the future I will try

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what is the name of this mob?

short meteor
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Supercharged Orbiter

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Just looks unfortunate with how mob AI works

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Theoretically would a slime riding the creeper be able to target stuff, cause slimes are just like big hitboxes right

mild swan
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hmmm

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well currently the ability relies on creeper's explosion AI to deal damage

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damage is dealt when the explosion event is fired

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(which is why it can't deal damage to dummies in your plot, mobGriefing is off)

ashen shadow
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same with artillery i think

young sandal
mild swan
mild swan
young sandal
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Ah alr

azure nymph
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make the creeper fly if the targets fly

mild swan
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lol

ashen shadow
half fog
fair elm
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just turn the creepers into bees or smth

opaque zenith
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i wish creepers could fly somehow

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or just

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not void themselves / drop down too far from the player

mild swan
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indigo alch is fine

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from my experience

young sandal
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It was mostly fine, right uptil the moment flying ppl showed up

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But u do have other spells to back u up