Seraph Feedback Thread

[amber sequoia]

cool

[amber sequoia]

was checking ode and

lol

[mystic lantern]

Still???

[teal dagger]

gg

[high quest]

whar

[viscid tapir]

🥀

[unique cradle]

y u p

[short adder]

Ghost in the Shell charm

[rose atlas]

Rip to virtue reflex builds

🥀

[faint hill]

You just had to ruin the fun by snitching didn't you

There goes my reflexes stack 1 billion ehp 100% uptime seraph build

[faint hill]

something i just noticed is that virtue is the first consistent way to use beam for recoil

well, its almost consistent because you cannot beam it if its at full health

but if it isnt, you can position it wherever you want basically and recoil off it

[rose atlas]

new lr strat?

wait my nitro ran out..

[noble thorn]

How do you manage to quickdraw recoil-ify hallowed beam

God wept.

[rose atlas]

I have superior reading skills

[amber sequoia]

Does orb not transfer any aspects

Explosive piercing etc

[unique cradle]

it should apply aspect enchants by itself

[amber sequoia]

ohh like multi

[mystic lantern]

Yes

Multi isn’t an aspect

Any thing with aspect in the name

But multishot does work

[high quest]

I think he meant as in “oh like the way multishot does it”

Maybe?

[mystic lantern]

Ah kk was a little confuzzled

[high quest]

Im not sure either tbh LOL

[mystic lantern]

😭

[amber sequoia]

😭 mb i was gonna say proj enchantment

[mystic lantern]

oh! yeah no it only works with aspects, so like wind aspect, thunder aspect and so on, also does work with multishot

[amber sequoia]

🥀

Actually wind aspect sounds interesting

[unique cradle]

CREATION!!

[amber sequoia]

But multishot is more qol

true..

[mystic lantern]

creation is really silly with asc

like

nefarious

[faint hill]

i wonder how seraph spec quest would look like reworked

theres some very big catastrophe so we get summoned by some angels and get bestowed the power of a seraph to deal with it?

actually, seraph is like the highest angel rank lmao

definition:
an angelic being, regarded in traditional Christian angelology as belonging to the highest order of the ninefold celestial hierarchy, associated with light, ardour, and purity.

[fluid estuary]

yeah I think the naming of seraph is eh; The Virtue should be named Seraph and the spec should be reverted to Hiero! (fake because probably not happening but I think it would be cool)

[radiant isle]

Hierophant by definition doesn't really make any sense anymore, which is why it was changed

Virtue is named the way it is because 1. it matches the role of the virtue angel 2. it is an angel of a “lower rank” than seraph - thus the seraph commands it in this case

[viscid tapir]

that would be kind of excessive for a spec quest though

[swift lava]

seraph can probably just be relegated to the name/title of a high ranking healer in chillwind society rather than being regarded as actual angels

if that's the case, keeping in line with the current spec quest's theme of setting up an underground magic communications will be interesting to say the least

[unique cradle]

what if: actual seraph recruits you to protect them during a bossfight as they heal you with seraph abilities

[swift lava]

ok that would be sick

but also the hiero quest itself just has a neat worldbuilding contribution that might be nice to keep

if there is a complete rework of the trial then i hope the original hiero quest stays as a sidequest

[unique cradle]

[nimble tartan]

with some small test in cyan with friend, rn my feedback is ascension is very annoy to use, while idea is cool, but the logic is annoy, whenever I try to get some advantage with floating by dash to place that floor is way lower then my orignal place, I get drag down, can't help team, which is very obvious during cyan part 1, especially it has spawner and lava below.

[faint hill]

Other gripes for ascension:
If you're in a room, you will basically have to end using it because you will hit your head on the ceiling and decoration and be unable to go farther or even hit anything

Thats kind of inherent to the ability though, what rbt mentioned should definitely be fixed. I found myself falling off the main level and being unable to get back up many times (even with ire)

Also, I think it could be better if ascension kept you like 1 block higher up in the air than it does rn

[mystic lantern]

crouch

crouching lets you go down

[faint hill]

Too slow

If there's a ceiling and like a one block decoration up there, and you're stuck on that decoration, it will take you like 3 seconds to get below it and fly again on the other side

Actually, making shift more responsive and faster could fix that issue true

[hazy flame]

shift giving velocity downwards might be usefup

course u can recoil downwards but WOW is that a waste of an ire or hrimmys

[high quest]

Can i get a reminder on why flight with a sizable speed penalty wasnt allowed

[mystic lantern]

Soulless slop

[teal dagger]

the freely accessible space bar:

[fluid estuary]

shrug; I'm aware of the angelic order but Virtue is just a worse name (Dominion/Power/etc don't work well either though so I see where you're coming from)

[faint hill]

yeah i feel like a name like "virtue" fits a small cute spirit following you and healing or tickling enemies more than a "dominion" or "power"

[fluid estuary]

If we're keeping strictly angelic order and seraph is off the table virtue is probably the best option

[rose atlas]

is there a way to get some cdr if you cancel ascension early?

[teal dagger]

you get "cdr" in that the cooldown starts sooner

that's about it though

maybe there could be a fun little thing where extension duration you "waste" by turning it off translates to cooldown but that sounds a little tricky to balance

[edgy path]

that was in the previous version

[unique cradle]

CD refund was in the previous version, it's a little more intuitive now because it's like this now

[rose atlas]

rename virtue to galaxy destoryer to seem more threatening

[winged fiber]

Virtuoso (soulsinger comparability)

[short jasper]

+decay

They should just focus on the movement part of ascension and cut the rest out frfr then move the power to virtue im stupid don’t listen to me

[mystic lantern]

Oh yeah you’re right about one thing

[rose atlas]

5 hrs till virtue becomes a sun beam

[errant hound]

[tough vector]

And nothing changed

[rose atlas]

No.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-box-surprise-cats-gif-10064777

[swift lava]

sorry if this has been discussed already, but will base skin ascension remain the same? it is a bit jarring to just float in the air like that

[mystic lantern]

it is planned pretty sure

[plush stone]

Keeper virtue might have been overbuffed with this last update 🔥

the skin is very good, although I think the increased range it got a while back is honestly a bit annoying since it flys way out of my vision so I cannot keep an eye on the virtue. If it was a good ability that would matter more since it makes it harder to heal it back up.

[rose atlas]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1347393177346244728/1386171234143834112/delayedbygambling.gif

[faint hill]

This is only slightly related to seraph

But the changes to DJ hurt it's survivability a lot in r1 and r2 (at least in my experience)

I've heard people agree with the issue in r1, some agreed in r2 and some didn't

But in my personal experience it's BAD

Like, in r1 I went from consistently clearing well to almost dying very often

In r2 I am probably dying twice as much

Both builds are decently tanky for their region too and use offhand shields, so the change shouldn't impact me that much

Cleric and paladin btw

Though it impacted seraph too

[slim shore]

drop the builds?

[mystic lantern]

Drop the builds?

[faint hill]

r2:
https://odetomisery.vercel.app/builder/m=Energized Maelstrom&o=Infernal Aegis&h=Crown of Chains&c=Rapture&l=Frost Knight's Greaves&b=Colossal Sabatons&charm=None
r1:
https://odetomisery.vercel.app/builder/m=Silver Knight's Failure&o=Whispers of the Blizzard&h=Emblem of Greed&c=Bloodiron Pact&l=Soulbinder's Leggings&b=Imperial Boots&charm=None

not sure if its totally relevant though

[faint hill]

youve seen the build 😭

anwyay, as i said i dont have any concrete data on this other than just... dying more, feeling like everything deals more damage all around, etc

it almost feels like im playing glass despite having decently tanky builds with offhand shields

the only reason I isolated it to dj changes is because i played directly before and after that change, if i didnt play for a longer time i might have thought it was a boon issue too

maybe it is! just that it suddenly feels like a large drop

in fact im half sure this is like a psychological kind of effect? like, i feel like its weaker in situations where it shouldnt even matter

(it does matter on dreadlings in both r1 and r2 but thats a different thing)

if i had to compare it to any skill effect itd be phlegmatic enhancement, which in theory gives you damage reduction but in practice every time i played with it it felt like i died twice as fast (other have also reported this effect)

[tough vector]

For comparision sake

BlissedYui R1
Has way more EHP than Varavier's R1 build, even if you ignore Shielding, and I also feel pretty glassy

BlissedYui R2
in R2 again, same case of me having better ehp than his build and also feeling glassy, Inure is a barely usable garbage and in R2's case of every damage type being equally present I'm sure he gets borderline no use out of it

This might more or less come down to not DJ but the Boons, boons have been an absurd back bone of cleric, to the point where I'm pretty sure even devs didn't realise it
Sanctified Armor can only hope to achieve even half of what Boons were putting in as ehp boost to what is otherwise a rogue with magic abilities.
and in their current state it's a terrible skill that both has cooldown and forces you to gamble
and a support class, out of all of them, should never gamble, a healer that rolls a dice to heal is a worthless healer, and seeing as boons also acted as buff skill, them having both chance and CD becomes absurd

that doesn't mean I want them back to just %, they were a bad thing
but they shouldn't stay the way they are now either,
Unfortunately I have no ideas what to suggest, but it should definetly remain as defensive passive

[radiant isle]

It's interesting considering cleric still has way more self healing than everyone else
It's been a while since I last played (thanks to my desktop for shitting itself) so I can't reeeally comment on how I find the healing myself, will need to start playing more. I'll keep the notes that it feels too glassy in mind
What I will say though is that I don't understand the arguments against boon being cd + chance, I feel like it completely misses the point of the change and just says "trigger complexity on this skill is bad"

[faint hill]

tbf inure is not that bad in r2. When i delve i never use magic modifiers, and I try to block projectile with offhand shield to upkeep melee-melee inure usage. It works reasonably well, so the hit to inure a while ago didnt immediately destroy my build (even if it was noticeable)

[tough vector]

if you play a Dps, and you throw a dice to deal damage and fail, it's fine, you can retreat and try again

if you're a healer, and your teammate is low
you don't want to throw a dice to heal him, you want to just heal him
A healer that is inconsistant is insignificant, the changes to boons made me use Bells purely because when HoL is on cooldown I'd much rather become a tank and center of attention than try to kill shit and not proc a heal to save someone

Support classes by their design need to be strong and consistant, otherwise noone would want to play them

[radiant isle]

You're looking at boon in a vacuum here

[tough vector]

yea I noticed you love shields, we should have relatively same ping of around 130 due to our location
but I learned strifing enough to not constantly exchange hits, if you consider that to equal out or no it's not up to me

and Inure, maybe? I should check it out again

[tough vector]

no I'm look at a boon as a skill I need to use to heal my rogue that is currently hiding behind me on 10% hp
While theres 10 mobs in front of me

I will bell to get them to attack me so that he can heal and then start killing, because if I tried to save that bell I'd be throwing dices to heal him, but only if I'm feeling it (I'm not feeling it, and my rogue would be pissed if they saw me gamble their life away)

[faint hill]

up until like a week ago i played on a computer that had like 30fps on a good day

in addition to my internet sometimes deciding to shit itself in the evenings

so the shield became my crutch

[faint hill]

i LOVE inure

i still think they should turn back the 10% effectiveness nerf

but it can be played around, even if barely in r2

(r3 is nonexistent lmao)

[mystic lantern]

God wept

Comparing dj healing to that skill is despicable im sorry

[faint hill]

did you read what i wrote...

i meant the psychological effect

though tbf dj still doesnt feel like it actively works against me like phleg (u) does

[mystic lantern]

In any way sorry I forgot to mention

[faint hill]

its just that it feels weaker

[mystic lantern]

I don’t wanna say it but I feel like this is just gonna boil down to another I think it’s fine when I use it to a no I think it’s bad when I use it type of conversation and I’m kinda not trying to do that because they don’t go anywhere

Actual statistics would be better to compare

Because I’m not feeling anything you’re feeling

I play a good bit with tormented and all that slop

In r2

[faint hill]

id love statistics/more opinions on this

[radiant isle]

Boon's design was not intended for this, this is a completely separate context so of course it's not reliable for that
This is what hol, beam and virtue can do (and to an extent cleansing rain)
I don't have strong attachment to how boon works myself, so I wouldn't be opposed to changing it, but this feels like fundamentally misunderstanding the ability in its current design

[tough vector]

the absurd things you can get away with phleg (u) do not allow you to call it out like that

[faint hill]

the absurd rate of dying indeed

[tough vector]

then what is it meant to be
it's a healing ability, that has cooldown, and a chance to proc
what else it is supposed to be if not a healing skill?

like, really, do tell me what it's supposed to be, I'm open to learn new things about class I sank depressing amount of hours into which I can't ever leave whichout feeling shackled

[reef oak]

buffs with 20% healing slapped on top

[tough vector]

inconsistant dice roll buffs

you don't have control over anything on it
that's even worse than just focusing on healing dice roll part

[reef oak]

what if boon just didnt have a cooldown but a insolated heal reduction mechanic like ih pots

[tough vector]

that would just be anti skill

and again, I understand why it has cooldown, but I just don't think it should've kept the gambling aspect of it, or should just be reworked entirely

[radiant isle]

Some words I found on the ideas behind boon's design:

- The thematic idea there is that justice is itself consistent and predictable. The boon from heaven is mercy and grace - each is a gift from the cleric's deity to be thankful for each time it is recieved, not something "deserved" like DJ.```
You can think this doesn't work well, that's fine. But these are some of the ideas behind it, it's not meant to be the same reliable on-demand healing that the other skills provide already. Keep in mind this is a very old ability, which can explain the "designed around thematics" part I guess

[faint hill]

That's actually a cool piece of the ability design philosophy behind it

I'd love to see more for other abilities shared in the future too if there's an opportunity

[radiant isle]

Perhaps worth trying the regen change we did to DJ on boon as well and then removing the cooldown

But anyway cleric will be mostly left to simmer for a while, I have no changes planned for this next monthly balance update as I think it's a good time to take a break

[tough vector]

interesting philosophy
just, do remember that gameplay should come first, and I really don't think that the current version does in any way

and yea, I asumed as much

Seraph's nothing burger existance will continue for a while, then

[teal dagger]

I need an edit of the "this sucks actually" image but for Seraph deniers

[tough vector]

I have my gripes, but I'll stay silent, time will tell

or, well, rather the statistics of it's play time

[mystic lantern]

Lol lmao

I will hold my tongue

[high quest]

I’m not sure i’d agree with DJ as predictable and consistent healing, at least for other ppl in a multiplayer setting

where at any time a party member could nuke the pile, someone could killsteal your target, or the mob could fly off due to a mobility ability, i’m not sure its even possible for an on-kill effect to be either of those

HoL and beam and to an extent virtue, since u can control its toggle and its not dependent on factors outside of your control, are predictable

Boon technically counts too, but due to the splash potion transfer effect w hotbar IH

For boon, if you still want something unreliable, i would suggest maybe splitting boon’s buffs and heals into separate procs or something to give finer control over the skill’s balance

[amber sequoia]

I can’t say if this is true after i switch to tene

Shit is like a healing monster

[amber sequoia]

Calling ph u damage reduction is pretty wild, it’s only usage is let you realize “holy shit did those mob hurt THIS MUCH?” and chuck ii or any healing in that 3s

On DJ healing the only thing i might wonder is why is there even a cap it’s not a insta regen already+nerfed by half

also still lf smarter boon buff smh

[unique cradle]

cursed solution: now triggers on any mob kill, but the cooldown is randomized

[amber sequoia]

Stop spoiling next rework of Automatic Distillery

-100% ~ +100% boon cooldown% charm stat on the way

Cleric was nerfed healing->build more ehp

Build more ehp=Build less damage
Build less damage=kill mobs slower
Kill mobs slower=DJ and Boon trigger less frequent
DJ and boon trigger less frequent=less self healing
less self healing ≈ less ehp

In conclusion
Build more ehp=build less ehp 🤯

[unique cradle]

However, build more ehp = build more effective % healing

[amber sequoia]

nah i’d ignore them and abuse max health% healing

[light kayak]

It's bugged and the dmg from it doesn't consider some of the dr

Like dr% effects and weakness iirc idk the full list tho

So yeah you do die faster with it

Also cleric healing is strong as fuck still idk why people act like it's bad

Compared to what it was before sure but it's still way more than enough even for melee in high pt

Let alone any ranged pala or even worse seraph you may be running

(Worse as in you get hit even less)

[rose atlas]

When's the next expected seraph changelog?

if you were going to estimate.

[rose atlas]

@mystic lantern you know what you did.

[radiant isle]

December monthly balance at the earliest