#Hunts Feedback Thread

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

tender shale
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When distributing matchmaking, first prioritize filling empty shards, until they become too full, and then start distributing players to shards with “premade” parties

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This probably needs a 25 player cap for shard stability reasons too

safe rivet
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I hear experiment 71 has a dr bug is this truth or rubbish

marble peak
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fixed i think?

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worms didnt remove their dr to 71 upon getting killed

safe rivet
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Yeah a changelog entry says it's fixed

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Regardless I've participated in the boss twice and have found it to be significantly stronger than every other boss
Even when changing my build and skill points on guardian to be extra tanky, the thing absolutely decimates me and generally felt like a much more stressful fight

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I came back to it this time after dying to see if I could learn it a bit more and got shredded again

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I think there's maybe some timers that can be extended or damages that can be lowered

ebon osprey
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u can be a super cloak stack person

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at least that's why i play melee dps and didn't die in first 10sec

marble peak
safe rivet
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Cloak is a good strategy for optimising but I'd rather experience it with a semi standard gameplay build so feedback is more reasonable

marble peak
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i use situ pilled bers build but with guardian bf stack

marble peak
safe rivet
marble peak
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it centers on a player

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and makes a donut of attack area

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so u either in or out

ebon osprey
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to me it give 15 min cue is a reason to prepare for it, rather then go in with normal build

plush forge
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I think Experiment 71 is fine once you learn it, but yeah it’s pretty bad if you don’t know everything to look out for (and there’s a lot to look out for)

fair arch
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could you consider reducing the blocks given per hunt? 2 stacks for normal content (like Strikes) was okay since you would maybe have consumed them during the strike, but Hunts are very very short and mostly do not involve block placing (except maybe impen / hawk / core needing around 5-10). maybe 1 stack?

restive kernel
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hey i like them

slim bane
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hey i like blocks too

wet charm
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6/6 on hunts. My honest view is that all of them are pretty reasonable and fair once you know the mechanics. 71 might be a little more finnicky than the rest but I wonder if that’s a “newness” problem that will get solved with more players gaining experience on the boss

plush forge
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I like blocks

velvet nimbus
marble peak
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71 is kinda ok rn

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though i think that red particle attack and stacking debuffs from toxin expulsion are too op

shrewd roost
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The telegraphs appeared…inconsistent from the most recent 71, and this was an experience shared by others in the shard. We were on the shard that shared the announcement message, if that makes a difference, and it does not usually happen.

An example of the inconcistency is that the “Roar” or orange particle telegraph wasn’t displaying sometimes until at full radius. It might be related to when switching shards to help other 71 fights, the Roar ability is completely invisible.

marble peak
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i think some particles are just broken rn

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sirius had no particles at all

merry forge
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i still particularly dislike core elemental banish

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at least i finally got a chance to fail it on my own error, pillared up too far away and misclicked when i jumped jebaited

merry forge
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which feels more fair than randomly getting oneshot by 71 doing a 400+ damage single hit due to the debuffs not being visible in the flooded effects list

marble peak
velvet nimbus
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i still have no idea how to avoid getting debuffs in magma cube fight

fair arch
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but i think you can just dps the boss and be fine

velvet nimbus
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i want to know so i dont get one shot again from -res debuff that i have no idea how to avoid

ebon osprey
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I think

meager ridge
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too many fire blocks in arena and u get debuffs

ionic orbit
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Is sludge scattershot telegraphed?

meager ridge
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red donut

ebon osprey
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after kill my ring's 71, been to other 3 ring fighting it (which all looks like have more player then my first fight), experience particle lag

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doesn't looks like my ping as skill work normal, just particle appear late

winged brook
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I think the red donut is causing particle lag

ebon osprey
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i only notice kb skill has lag, not sure about other

neat wren
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Is there a reason why most banish mechanics are used once and then never again?

  • For Daniel I can somewhat understand since it involves consumables.
  • Coca Cola's banish is nice since it's always there during the fight.
  • Hawk? What, you break your legs from the fall, twist your ankles or some, and can't fall asleep ever again?
  • 71? "Dig mud" but only at the start when there's little.
  • The Impenetrable? Boomline once then back to Touhou and Hide 'n' Seek.
  • Core Elemental? Does the first hit during banish cause it to deflate like a balloon?

I have no complaints for ispeP, and Daniel I can somewhat understand, but why do the other bosses never use their banish attack more than once?

tender shale
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To be fair to core element, the arena would gradually fill up with blocks from pillaring unless someone built a staircase up

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Unless the plan to make blocks decay occurs

neat wren
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Blocks melt down and become lava suffer

winged brook
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i mean daniel can simply allow infinite consumables to fix his problem

merry forge
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71 and core elemental have the neat distinction of being banish mechanics that other players in your fight can block you from completing

grave pasture
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well i mean if you constantly loom floor above someone in hawk

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wait that doesnt work

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well if you are really good at speedbridging over someone

tender shale
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u can still jump off a ledge and at that point they'd probably get banned for griefing too

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core elemental and exp 71 provoke accidental team griefing as part of regular gameplay

shrewd roost
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My tip for core elemental banish counter is to use light blue tess directly at boss and spam left click

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Even if you somehow miss the left click, he gives you levitation when you brush up against him during that phase (or at least he used to) so you have multiple opportunities

fair arch
wet charm
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like even if it was every 33% HP or something, impen, daniel, 71, and hawk would all be immediately far more boring because of the extra "stuff" and "waiting around" i'd have do every time we hit a decent breakpoint

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hunts are awesome as short, efficient little pieces of content you need to do something somewhat silly to beat, i think trying to make them more than that somewhat ruins the charm they currently have

restive kernel
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i feel like banish mechanics can be kept at once per fight but moved to half the boss' hp instead

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it doesn't quite make sense that the boss uses its strongest attack within the first 10s of the fight only to forget about it forever right after

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and it's also just outright weird

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assuming no one tells them in advance, every single new player will expect the boss to cast it again if it was casted very early on

forest delta
# wet charm i think the banish mechs would feel far, far more gimmicky if i had to do them o...

I'd agree if they were at arbitrary health percentages like that. But if they happened at certain time signatures, like every 2 minutes, then you can can skip them if you play well. Currently once I clear Banish (outside of Ispep) I feel relief that I'm in the clear of a total loss and can just kick back and safely vibe without being risky or spoiling.
I'd rather replace that with a tension about playing well so that the chance of a banish doesn't occur again. That threat looming over the fight would keep them from getting stale when running them months or years from now imo.

tender shale
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I would like for the banishes/spoilers to be a bit more interactive if it gets changed

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Pepsi being the gold standard for interesting mechanics

manic hemlock
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banish should be a constant threat imo

restive kernel
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It might be just me but I find it starnge that banish mechanics are so polarizing. It's a 1 shot through any sort of defense mechanic and it happens only once hence bringing lots of focus on a singular moment throughout the boss. I would've much preferred a mechanic similar to godspore's vitality or xenotopsis' "player's death" where, for example, there are 3 banish attacks at 75%, 50% and 25% hp respectively. Failing to dodge one would give player a debuff for the rest of the fight and failing another would banish, thus allowing failing 1 attack while still punishing for it. It'd also spread the danger throughout the fight a lot more.

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I like that there is something you have to be mindful of regardless of your gear or class, but banish as it is rn is just poorly designed imo

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Coca cola being an exception, that's an example of close to, if not a perfect mechanic

timid lantern
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I'd agree with bringing banish attack at a lower health threshold so it feels more like a last resort
people might try to skip it though maybe give res idk

or add a mechanic to cause the boss to cast banish again later on so you'd still have to look out for that
maybe if people make the spoiling move too much boss casts banish again (not banishing people, cast the banish ability)

plush forge
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I think Void’s idea is good

slender saddle
wet charm
atomic geyser
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Not a huge fan of putting stuff on a timer since it encourages hard dps which is an issue we've already seen with bosses like hycenea

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not that they aren't already being dpsed, I just don't want to encourage it

tender shale
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I like progress bar mechanics

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Probably shouldnt overuse them in general content, but i think it’d be cool as “this content’s gimmick” as a specific niche

atomic geyser
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the xenotopsis death in question

tender shale
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I dont even remember what that boss does anymore

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Is it just vesp corruption meter but reskinned

manic hemlock
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Nevermind I read it wrong

atomic geyser
tender shale
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I see

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I was thinking of something like

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I mean its probably too late into the content development for any big changes but i kinda like this idea so im gonna yap anyway

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For Core Elemental i was thinking of something like a Core Stability bar that fills whenever it damages you, at max bar it just instantly blows u up and u get banished

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Whacking the core elemental while it’s unstable drains an arbitrary but very large amount (50-75% maybe?) and emptying the bar spoils loot

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So the fight happens as it currently is but you get minorly punished for failing to dodge but can recover by occasionally intentionally hit it during Unstability to empty the bar

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Alternative version where hitting the boss also empties the bar a small amount (on a cooldown so multihit atks arent punished), so you have to moderate your hits and occasionally take a hit

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The banish attack can still happen too if wanted, can just spin it as instantly filling the bar if u dont hit it idk

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To clarify, this idea is in conjunction with my complaints about ppl afking/leeching and that the safest way to play is to not hit the boss to prevent spoils

ebon osprey
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love the silence and no block before fight

merry forge
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@velvet nimbus what did the devs mean by this

velvet nimbus
merry forge
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why are the devs contradicting each other on a basic fight mechanic 😱

winged brook
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why arent the devs a centralized hivemind?

charred tinsel
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If you pick up the feathers on the ground you get nerfed. Every attack and hitting the bird while its flying causes it to drop feathers. If it has too few feathers it will nest and collect more.

ebon osprey
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so pick up feather on ground doesn't matter

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is keep hit it

charred tinsel
ebon osprey
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i see...

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i spread the misinformation before it seems

merry forge
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it makes so much sense as a mechanic to add interactivity to the fight, too jebaited

stable oriole
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wait wtf ive been collecting the feathers the whole time

fair arch
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description checks out

image.png
stable oriole
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im melee so i thought that was like the one thing i could do to contribute other than hitting it once every 25 secs

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if thats the case then it seems kinda pointless with how small the hitbox on the feathers are, you gotta go out of your way to collect them

shrewd roost
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It does seem like a good way for melee players to contribute to the fight while waiting for roosting/charge fails. Perhaps the feathers can be changed to be beneficial when you pick them up and another hawk ability/hazard can be added?

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I think someone had a suggestion earlier like baby hawks that hatch and attack the players, which sounded pretty cool and would add more engagement to the fight (even if it’s similar to the Voided Phoenix baby birds from another game, it’s still a neat mechanic that could fit in this fight).

tender shale
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It’s not technically beneficial to pick the feathers up, but melee players picking them up is probably better for preventing the ranged players from accidentally doing so, I guess

wispy quartz
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I kinda just run at them like mario coins
Since I'm a buff slave hiero anyway

ebon osprey
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is it intend that unspoiled 71 loot give 1 ar

image.png
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didn't notice other after update, only got this

wispy quartz
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You got exp stash
I guess that's worth the missing 10ar

ebon osprey
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maybe

wet charm
# merry forge why are the devs contradicting each other on a basic fight mechanic 😱

This might've been like a bit or something (likely tbh) but TM really isn't monolithic at all in terms of who works on what. I imagine this hasn't changed but during my time on the team people generally had roles they fell into and while they were absolutely encourged to and did frequently cross over roles, its not unreasonable for someone to not know a whole lot about someone else's content even up until release day. In a way its a great thing because it allows even developers to enter into content sometimes unspoiled, but obviously it does sometimes create confusion in communication.

Idk. After being part of the team, give them grace when they get something wrong like that because its always not out of malice or incompetence, it may just be that they didn't know and made an assumption like a player would. I know I did that a lot during development as other people released projects I had little involvement in.

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I also wasn't trying to be mean or anything in saying that and I hope I didn't come across as such 🙏

tender shale
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u can probably assume anyone who wasn't directly a dev listed in a content's credits sign wall is acting as a normal player

sharp briar
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and even if they are on the credits for one part but not another, someone in builds may not know boss tech, someone in boss tech may not know build secrets, etc etc

wet charm
sharp briar
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and if you go for depths/zenith/shifting, a builder wouldn't even know the builds beyond their rooms 😛

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also hunts was in dev and going through iterations for months if not years, so there's been multiple versions over that timeframe

merry forge
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no i think alittar's right, why have devs put time into anything before first developing the ability to merge their brains into one single colossal tortured abomination

wet charm
frosty vortex
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Its okay guys, I've got my Hivemind-inator nearly finished

versed lantern
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Holy shit that's primeval creations 6...

wet charm
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"Well, we gave up a lot of autonomy and human emotion, but for a few short years we made a LOT of c(r)ontent"

ebon osprey
tardy fog
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can impenatrable flow whenever it's banishing?

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idk where tf it is and it just beam me

versed lantern
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Just had impen teleport directly inside the square it just put a remnant at, which then instantly caused me to spoil while shooting the remnant, ideally shouldn't happen lol

plush forge
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Impen teleported in front of me using quick draw

tender shale
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why can the magma in core elemental not be mined

merry forge
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also if the magma and fire both contribute to the funny burning debuffs then the unclearable magma is a weird dps check

fair arch
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and the lava, but i think if you have enough lava to clog the arena it’s your issue

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what’s the fight you can survive the longest in

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steel winged hawk?

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did anyone test for the possibility of a Hunt spawning on a ring with an active Hunt from 2h ago

merry forge
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that sounds like way too much work

fair arch
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hawk and uamiel are probably the two hunts you can reasonably stall out

merry forge
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and also like a job for an afk tank build in hawk

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uamiel sometimes does actual damage

patent granite
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can you take uamiel on a walk

fair arch
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71 scales, core scales

fair arch
merry forge
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hawk will just spoil you for standing still, but its damage isnt large or frequent

fair arch
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but yeahhhh can you have your friend chill in the arena while you bring him around

patent granite
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we need to take a tcl pig hunt and try to walk it to casino

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for shits and giggles

merry forge
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except for maybe the black particle spam? unsure how much damage that does because its hitbox lies

merry forge
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when you don't have a torch but players have generously left-- oh

image.png
merry forge
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latest hog fight all the adds spawners appeared down the cliffside at the edge of the arena where they basically couldnt be cleared without dying or being out of bounds

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so there were just, endless worms

tardy fog
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also what's up with the new geyser attack

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i dont recall a single telegraph for it

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i can legit be off the side and still get launhced

merry forge
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it's like old geyser attack, except now everyone in the fight gets launched to their death!

tardy fog
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😭

slim bane
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Replace magma back to original block

wintry spire
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Theres add spawners??

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I didnt see any and near the end of the figt there was like 10 worms

ebon osprey
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glad u ask!

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they come from this block! block randomly appear → spawn particle → worm!

image0.png
manic hemlock
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Muddy Mangrove Roots...

robust brook
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i think it should be more obvious than muddy mangrove roots

tender shale
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They stand out pretty well against mud imo

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Its when theyre on the edge against podzol when they blend in

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Example

tender shale
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is there a check in place to stop Imp from escaping the arena bounds

atomic geyser
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if bosses go too far they get despawned and the fight is lost

winged brook
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but like, imp cant be controlled by the player

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so that fight is different

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same with hawk

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like you can taunt the rest to keep them in the arena

charred tinsel
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Hawk will never leave its arena

rugged steppe
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Yeah neither will impenetrable

merry forge
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meanwhile hog tries to leave its arena unprovoked all the time

tender shale
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Hog KBing a player and then chasing them withering

merry forge
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infinite worm gaming

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while it is the most actively interesting of the hunts. it's a bit overtuned. and something seems broken with worm spawn rates and worm spawner spawn rates. and there are a bunch of issues with the attack telegraphs not happening or happening at the wrong times. and there's a cliff face that fight mechs can get shoved off of while still punishing players, and--

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worm spawner visibility also still sucks with podzol

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so without a texture pack change specifically to cope with this fight, it takes extra attention to even find the spawners flooding adds overwhelming players while making the boss have capped resistance

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assuming they arent just off the cliff altogether and airdropping reinforcements in

tender shale
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boss intentionally tuned to be strong + bugs = unfair

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also for pig does it only do magic and melee dmg, or does it also have proejctile thrown in

shrewd roost
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I’m pretty sure something is projectile since I can trigger dodging during the fight

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#spoiler-chat message
According to this the Roar/Toxic Repulsion deals proj damage

meager ridge
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muddy shriek is also projectile damage

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stopped updating that guide because of character limit pepega

cloud bluff
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hawk's volcanic demise type attack does way too much damage

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it should not be oneshotting from full health with 140 projectile ehp

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i have lost four fights now because the circles spawn in a way that i literally cannot get out of them before they explode

meager ridge
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it is blast damage

cloud bluff
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okay it still really should not be oneshotting

fair arch
ebon osprey
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build problem

tender shale
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The thing is u can just hotswap in razorleaf breeches, or any number of cloak items for everything that isnt pig and maybe cola

fair arch
tender shale
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Mm that is indeed a problem

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Put on another tank item idk

timid lantern
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From my perspective it’s the question of should hunt be balanced around cloaked
Not just that hawk attack a lot of other attacks can also be kinda bs sometimes

tender shale
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It not just cloak

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Its also multiplayer content that you are very explicitly not supposed to solo

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Unlike world bosses which have advancements for solo, meaning they at least have to be doable for solo, hunts do not have a mechanism allowing for solo at all

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No (intended) time limitations, group content, has a very consistent situational catering to it

fair arch
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i have to say that Cloaked feels very much like a “get out of jail free” card

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i barely interact with boss attacks except “mmm i should probably dodge the aloc slash and try not to get hit by the things which are easy to dodge”

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even when i take an aloc slash it feels like it barely goes through orange tess absorption

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(and then i pop ed2 randomly but we don’t talk about it)

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so you run into an issue where you either balance around Cloaked and shaft everyone else or don’t balance around Cloaked and let it be the meta

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i guess you could tweak Cloaked a bit and then add adds to the bosses (uamiel bombs spawning small rock enemies, hawk spawning baby hawks from eggs, core spawning baby core from Core Expansion, etc)

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Cloaked: Gain 20% Agility. When 3 or more mobs are present within 4 blocks, lose 5% Agility from this buff every second, to a minimum of 0% Agility.

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(basically functions like current cloaked but it takes 4 seconds to decloak instead of instant)

ebon osprey
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cloaked is already a unused situ i perfer it stay this way

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and for got 1 shot by hawk attack, at least for me hawk attack were not hard to dodge, even mutiple white ring i can at least make only 1 hit me, which bring me down to around 50% hp

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i don't know which kind of damage it dealt, but before further discussion i would like know lucy's set

fair arch
ebon osprey
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u see the problem

meager ridge
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when the glass build with blast fragility gets 1 tapped

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shocking

fair arch
meager ridge
fair arch
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Blast: 78.41

cloud bluff
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but yeah

ebon osprey
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that's 78.58 with tempo and second wind

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your set just too crispy

cloud bluff
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i thought it dealt projectile damage

ebon osprey
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never consider it deal certain type damage is safer

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i don't know what it is now, but some arcanic skill isn't doing magic damage before

fair arch
cloud bluff
ebon osprey
cloud bluff
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godspore is adds hell incarnate, sirius you spend half the fight just standing around idly whacking fodder mobs

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i don't think it needs to be introduced to hunts, especially not in the form of "minor annoyance that just bumps you around and forces you to stop fighting the boss for a second"

ebon osprey
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for hycenea add can ruin some fight if clear doesn't do well but is not main diffculty

ebon osprey
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Feedback for new 71 after update

  1. block that spawn worm is unclear when mixing with mud and/or other block, they also appear too often and spawn worm too quick while worm being tanky, even more we have case that spawn block is place on tree

  2. with dr mechanic, player are encourage to clear worm to not let 71 stack dr, but with worm being tanky, fast, come with sworm (we do have many ppl digging mud include at least 1 buff hiero) and being a worm (hard to hit), is relative unlikely to happen while damage pig

  3. in order to defeat pig, u need 1. dig mud, 2. kill worm 3. dodge skill, 4. hit pig while dodge kb, then with far range give dr, make it a worse boss to fight as a player can't do it all (which is reasonable), but also hard to do it with regular normal player

  4. skill, well, deal a bit too high damage i would say, while being not telegraph well, they use same type color for new scattershot which is orange that often get burried by already chaos fight, new mud geyser somehow come with no outline (i think that's skill kb player up)

image0.png
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not saying 71 not work with cloak is bad, but i generally think worm spawn too fast even with reasonable mud clear gang, it also not clear to see where root at due to arena color palette, some height difference (it can spawn on tree, down hill, behind tree), make player unable to reach, the particle that hint worm spwan being meaningless

oblique pulsar
ebon osprey
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another problem with fast braking block (this is just my personal experience and i don't really except it get change as i think it need big change for small good) is me as average 250ms player, often found break mud make me stuck in block for like 0.5 sec, which is incredible annoy in 71 fight

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i can say that my ring's group have at least 5 experience enough player that either play long enough to have enough currency, or have gear specialy prepare for fight, and have good amount expereince with 71, we all know what to do, and yet i still watch them get 1 shot by skill, chase by worm unable to kill them nor clear spawn block, i admitted use cloak stack gear, even with reflexe 1 would obviously make me crispy and my main focus is hit pig, but man, at some point i turn around try help dig mud kill worm break spawn block, i see at lesat 5 spawn block + twice or third amount of worm rumbling around

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i see that tm mention their skin is hint to root block (block that spawn worm), but the same color palatte strike again, is so hard to see a fast moving target when i also try to locate spawn block (rn i think about it spawn particle is also mud color)

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pls, worm is just not a fun mob, why are they so tank, run so fast, while being a worm (suit parasite i guess)

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if i need to describe my dislike toward current pig, is even if it drop trophy, i am 1 mat away from done with content, when i see next hunt is 71 i would perfer not online

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forgot to mention, mutiple player mention this but i would like to do it again, we have mutiple case that some of skill particle is delay, happen after skill cast, range from a normal player to high ping player, we all expereince that, i mainly notice this on kb skill which is very deadly

meager ridge
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currently its easier to ignore the worm spawner and just kill them when they spawn with aoe class

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theres just too many spawner

winged brook
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I believe the red circle attack causes the particle lag

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I thougjt it was mudwuake before but that was patched

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Now it happens consistently every time red circle is cast

atomic geyser
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The red circle was removed

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Also I think the current worm spawner amount and worm spawning is bugged to be too high

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I'll be looking into that

ebon osprey
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ty

tender shale
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Could a fence maybe be put on the cliff edge please

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It’s incredibly annoying that it’s possible to intentionally or unintentionally effectively throw the fight for everyone by tossing the boss off the cliff

tender shale
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what dmg type + amount is mud geyser

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got one shot by mud geyser with these stats + cleansing rain, not sure how much ehp i'm supposed to have 🙃

image.png
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that is with no situationals to clarify

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i got clipped by 1 tick of the debuffing roar so i was taking extra dmg yeah but i assumed i'd be still be in safe range but apparently not

charred tinsel
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100blast

tender shale
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I.. have no idea how that killed me then? It’s +25% dmg taken per tick of the scream isnt it

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Is it able to multihit

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mud geyser: 100 blast
scattershot: 90 projectile(?)

charred tinsel
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it shouldnt but maybe

marble peak
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toxic repulsion

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thats why if u want to live

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u dont tank it

stable oriole
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yeah thats really nasty, i once got 90% debuff from it

tender shale
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Even if i tanked a full 6 hits of repulsion for +90% dmg taken, which was not the case, that’s still only 190 blast dmg

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That still shouldnt have killed me regardless, that’s 222 blast ehp without accounting for situs or rain

marble peak
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it has about 15s timer

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ive seen 120+

tender shale
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I keep track of my debuffs whenever i get hit by that atk and hang in the back until it runs out

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I got killed while running away to wait it out when i ate a tick of it

marble peak
tender shale
#

This was not a situation where it stacked, i got one tick of it, and even in some theoretical scenario where i ate the full debuff stack it still shouldnt have killed me regardless

#

And in an even more theoretical scenario where i stacked more than 1 scream, i still have ehp to spare between 2nd wind + situ + rain, so i still shouldve been in the clear even if i was taking +180% dmg or whatever

marble peak
#

maybe mudgeyser hits multiple times now

#

tbh i tanked mudgeyser with lower hp so idk

#

or maybe not

#

cant remember if ethereal was active

oblique pulsar
#

i had a weird bug where i didnt have a class in the uamiel fight and it only fixed after i relogged

grave jetty
#

did you swap class during the sile ce?

vagrant dagger
#

i feel like rucks wouldnt be collapsing at an insane rate if some items were buffed (ie the offhand)

#

offhand sword

#

cuz like who is gonna use it

#

not a rogue
not a warrior

#

besides chimera being buffed cuz i think everyone knows that already

#

and even if they still crashed at the same rate it would def better if they got buffed

tender shale
#

Theyre collapsing because you only need a few hunts to get whatever items you want for most ppl

#

Past that point the only use is for pdias

merry forge
#

and the pdia exchange rate is worse than the potion exchange rate

exotic carbon
#

It would be cool if there was a new arrow type for hunts as a ruck sink the same way we have delve arrows

vagrant dagger
velvet nimbus
#

not enough sturdy infusers puffer_pensive

ebon osprey
fair arch
#

at the moment i feel that the ending of Hunts can be quite anticlimactic
the only thing that happens is that the bossbar vanishes, the fog clears, and you get a chat message, not even the title card that you get in SKT forge or anything

violet jacinth
#

Need some world boss ending title

#

And a bit for fireworks would be nice

fair arch
#

i propose that the bosses get some sort of “final attack” once their health drops to 0, where they’re invulnerable for 15s and players just need to survive the final onslaught

  • Steel Wing Hawk flies around very very fast, raining Feather Storm everywhere outside its nest for 10s, then swoops down for 5s, killing everyone within its nest at the end of the charge (and dying)
  • Uamiel applies a 90% slow to everyone in front of it, charges directly forwards dealing 100 melee damage every 3s, final charge is scripted to impact the cliff side and kill it
  • Experiment 71 charges to middle and casts Mud Geysers + Mudquake really really fast
  • Aloc Acoc casts Tripartite Slash, shrinks the safe zone, and increases the rate of cold accumulation
  • Core Elemental casts Core Expansion every second, casts the attack which pulls players in, ending at 10s, then explodes at 15s for 130 blast damage
  • Impenetrable closes fully, teleports once every 2s leaving behind Decaying Remnants
merry forge
#

but why

grave jetty
#

rage phase......

grave pasture
fair arch
#

mostly i just wanted steel wing hawk to crash into its nest

#

because the current ending is booooooring

#

it dies to a random ass projectile you probably didn't even see

grave pasture
#

this would be cool but sounds like the worst place to introduce the second desperation phase ever considering its the most time locked content on monumenta if you dont win

fair arch
#

gg this pig gonna have 0 people

#

maintenance is Not ending

pure flame
thorny vessel
oblique pulsar
meager ridge
#

i think core elemental fire debuff isnt engaged with much

thorny vessel
#

cant wait for the classless hunt achievements fr

wispy quartz
neat wren
wispy quartz
#

Impenetrable should teleport at first once every 3s, then constantly decrease until final mometn where he just rapidly teleports and then dies

we love generic death animation for strong foes

atomic geyser
# fair arch i propose that the bosses get some sort of “final attack” once their health drop...

I think something like this is quite cool on paper but has quite a few issues and wouldn't work in the context of fights like hunts

  • it would reduce replayability if the exact same thing happens at the end of the fight each time
  • people would often be incentivized to just armory swap to a tank set and ignore whats happening
  • the other factors would effectively result in this just adding extra time to the fight
  • it hasnt been seen to work out very well for monumenta bosses (for example the end of sirius)

If something like this happened at the end of each kaul, for example, I personally would be less interested in showing up to the fights, and I think that sentiment would go the same way for hunts

wispy quartz
#

end of sirius is bad just because sirius is bad, it's conceptually good forcing players to damage it now or die
But it's too dependant on entire boss' only actually lethal attack:
Blight Wave
if Blight Wave is casted, then it really does become Desperation, but on players end to kill this before they have to run away or get destroyed
but if Blight wave isn't present, then you just crit the weakpoints and it's a nothing burger of an ending

manic hemlock
#

blight beams used to do dmg sadmouse

versed lantern
#

What I'm hearing is that sirius should have permanent blight waves the end

manic hemlock
#

now they do like nothing

lyric basin
#

alt, dont make it an invuln "death" phase, rather a last push at say arbitrary health remaining

atomic geyser
lyric basin
atomic geyser
lyric basin
#

maybe if you stretch your mind

atomic geyser
#

No he's invulnerable during it

lyric basin
#

not specifically volcanic meteors

atomic geyser
#

so what is the comparison here

wintry spire
#

kaul demise is basically

lyric basin
atomic geyser
#

That's just the fight design and nothing dps

#

hunts bosses like experiment already do this

lyric basin
lyric basin
wintry spire
atomic geyser
#

Yeah all the attacks are like -1.5s cooldown and the mud is permanent

wintry spire
#

as the name implies it gets exp(onentially) harder as the fight goes on

atomic geyser
#

unless you mine it of course

lyric basin
#

I dont think I've lived a current exp71 so thats on me perhaps

wintry spire
#

its kind of insane at the ending

lyric basin
#

stuff like that could be nice in others

wintry spire
#

think in the last one the entire map was filled with mud and there was 5 worms permanently harassing us

atomic geyser
wintry spire
#

yeah its actually kind of cool

atomic geyser
#

oh yeah update on the worms

#

the cap was accidentally 15 i think

#

I have lowered it

fair arch
#

like you described a thing that happens at the end of each kaul and proceeded to state that you wouldn’t show up to a kaul if it happened

slender saddle
#

can't believe that bosses try to kill players every time, it ruins repeatability

velvet nimbus
#

me when varcosa cannons

atomic geyser
# fair arch that literally is the guaranteed Volcanic Demise cast though

theres a pretty significant difference when more fight comes after it, which is what happens for kaul - you know that if the fight is over after, you just have to survive and not switch back into any combat form, so in your mind the fight is over and it just feels like the ending is being procrastinated

#

and that vdemise cast is one of its least engaging parts

velvet nimbus
#

what about varcosa cannons

#

😟

atomic geyser
#

it doesnt suspend the fight and others stuff still happens so its just a boss attack and not anything out of the ordinary

tender shale
#

minor complaint, can the wither flowers be removed in the hog arena? I feel like the fight has enough things u have to dodge already

merry forge
#

it is a bit awkward that one of the mechanics of the fight is breaking all the flowers after hog spawns so they stop being annoying

tender shale
#

u can break the flowers? i thought it'd just prevent u from like the floor does

grave jetty
#

dont think you can break them anymore

merry forge
#

you cant break them while in pre-fight countdown prevention, and they reset anyway with the arena when boss spawns. but you can break them after the fight starts.

#

was the ongoing fight block rollback idea implemented? that might make it pointless anyway

tender shale
#

that applies to blocks u place

tender shale
#

what is going on here

image.png
merry forge
#

that's the "you're in the right place" indicator

tender shale
#

oh I see

merry forge
#

if you mean the grey particles everywhere

ebon osprey
#

71 once again murder bascially all player

#

skill damage being high and cast often, worm and block spawn too fast because they come from fast cast skill, then worm being tank, high speed, hard to hit. also no good place to run cause need keep break mud to not get parasite/decrease mud quake range, but it doesn't chain root block so that's extra time to clear them, then we also need deal damage to 71 while we have ton of worm which boost its dr rumbling around arena

#

plus skill telegraph use same type color as arena/worm, really hard to see

#

and lag, but that's on me

tardy fog
#

mfw when my volley miss cuz the worm jumps up OhTheMisery

#

and scatter shot is still ass

atomic geyser
#

The worms are being reduced, but beyond that I don't see an issue with its difficulty

#

If there's specific telegraphs that you think are hard to see I can look into that

atomic geyser
ebon osprey
#

I'll see how it goes after update, rn for me is mainly geyser because it doesn't have outring

#

So I don't really know where is bound

merry forge
#

it's hard to say while amped coven is around making the server cry, but sometimes pig fight just completely falls apart despite everyone doing what's supposed to be done

atomic geyser
atomic geyser
merry forge
#

sometimes it just goes from no mud except for under pig, no worms, boss at 10% to
arena entirely mud, 6 worms, 8 people in the sky
in 2 seconds

#

at which point things that need to be done continue accumulating faster than they can be done

#

also had several fights where worms just kept appearing 4 at a time without uncleared mud or spawners in the main zone, presumably to the spawners getting stuck down under the cliff (or inside the trees)

#

and you can't really go exploring off the side of the cliff to fix it without automatically being removed from the fight and/or killed

atomic geyser
#

Spawners inside trees has been fixed

#

I'm aware of the cliff issue but not sure of a solid fix for it

atomic geyser
merry forge
#

the power of the entire arena becoming overlapping mud geysers with late indicators

atomic geyser
#

define late indicator

#

is it not visually clear enough

merry forge
#

i mean the only sign that mud geysers are happening until after it hits being that a circle of mud appeared

atomic geyser
#

There's also a particle ring but it could be more visible

merry forge
#

again

it's hard to say while amped coven is around making the server cry

#

the fight might automatically become mostly fine come weekly update from that single difference

atomic geyser
#

Yeah hopefully we can get a better feeling next week

merry forge
#

although that will still leave daily restart making the server cry darkkermit

tardy fog
atomic geyser
#

Yeah I could see the damage being potentially too high, it felt fair for the telegraph time I had tested though

#

It's hard to find a damage for an attack in monumenta that's fair given it seems like builds either shrug it off or get 1 shot with no in between

#

lower damage in return for possibly applying some antiheal could potentially allow for it being fair to less tanky builds while also not allowing it to be ignored

merry forge
#

is there maybe an iframe issue on the multihit abilities where it's full on shotgunning players sometimes instead of only hitting once or twice?

atomic geyser
#

yeah it ignores iframes so if you're potentially standing on top of 2 you would be hit twice

#

but if you do that deserved maybe

charred tinsel
#

I think its damage should maybe be tuned down given it can multi hit

atomic geyser
#

The damage could go down but multihitting isn't an argument for it

tender shale
#
  • summons or boss being able to be lead off the cliff pseudo-throwing the fight for the entirety party
  • mud + spawners in trees or up the keep wall or down the cliff face
  • particle indicators being delayed or missing entirely
  • boss is very tanky and the fight drags on due to all the things hindering dps like worm DR, having to clear mud, and avoiding the debuff scream periodically
  • rooted mud blends in decently well when adjacent to podzol making them occasionally difficult to spot
  • arena has wither rose hazards you can only remove by replacing them with mud
  • some of the attacks like the lingering geyser take a moment to spot at lower graphical settings due to being similar color as the floor and no floor indicator (to my knowledge)
#

Also the 50% DR from being too far to the boss

#

It would be nice if that had an indicator ingame

#

Half my party ends up semi-leeching, without being their intention, because theyre trying to play it safe with ranged attacks and there’s no clear indicator the dmg debuff is because theyre too far

versed lantern
#

It just feels like to me the buffs it got made it so with the amount of people: If too many people are clearing mud there's not enough people dealing damage, and if not enough people are clearing mud there's too much DR to deal damage. So either way it just makes it feel super slow going and way more active of a fight compared to the others. Maybe this would be fixed with worms making it less important to be clearing mud

#

Also yeah there's no feedback about proj damage reductions so I have actually no idea what the optimal range is to be shooting. I usually just play it safe, and try to get a little closer to pstrike

tender shale
#

I near melee strike it with triple hbeam whenever cbless goes off cd

#

The mud thing seriously sucks if you dont have ppl u can communicate to coordinate with btw

versed lantern
#

Scout is obviously scout that goes without question, but hog in general just seems super anti-melee. You don't ever want to be close to him, especially with the spoil. But then I get punished for shooting projectiles so just the entire fight feels like it's doomed if I do doomed if I don't

tender shale
#

Someone has to clear the mud and that person isnt dpsing

versed lantern
#

Also unrelated but does split arrow trigger impen's spoil? I feel like I've got spoiled before when I made sure not to shoot it when it's even starting to close

tender shale
#

Hiero contributes the most amount of dmg via buffs while being free to clear mud

versed lantern
#

But yeah idk what changed with hog because I feel like I wasn't struggling in my groups to clear the mud before the changes. It just feels like endless turf wars after though

tender shale
#

A lot of ppl got tired and stopped joining

#

And reward value dropped to a point minmax groups left to go do other things

#

And the novelty wore off

ebon osprey
versed lantern
tender shale
#

So it’s like having a party of half learners everytime

#

The pseudo evasion mechanic is mostly known by ppl who’ve spent the time to learn or heard it by word of mouth from other experienced players

#

U can kinda gauge the proportion of casuals in your party by how many of them are taking potshots from the other end of the arena dealing fuckall dmg and not targeting the worms

stable oriole
#

there's a range penalty? I did not know that

tender shale
#

Nothing against them, to be clear, there is zero indicator the boss has pseudo evasion

#

The only way to tell is to be watching the dmg numbers

#

And even then, between cleric buffs, worm DR, sharpshooter stacks, players dying reducing player scaling, etc, your dmg fluctuates so much even trying to figure that out is honestly unreasonable

#

Something like a title bar message that “the hog’s tough hide resists your damage, get closer!” When ur too far would be good i think

#

For the cliff thing, can we please just get a fence thrown in

#

It doesnt 100% solve the issue but it’s like 10 seconds of work for a 50% effective solution and I feel like that’s a good enough effort to reward ratio to justify a temporary solution until someone smarter has an answer

patent granite
#

I don’t even think a theoretically fixed hog is that hard of a fight, it’s just the hardest hunt by a wide margin

tender shale
# tender shale - summons or boss being able to be lead off the cliff pseudo-throwing the fight ...

Of these issues

  • putting a fence up would partially mitigate the cliff, even if it doesnt fully solve it
  • eliux says tree mud is being fixed, idk about keep walls or cliff edge
  • particle issue may be partially due to coven amp, we shall see next week
  • add an indicator for the pseudo-evasion
  • please replace the podzol and wither flowers, i know it’s minor but the fight already has enough annoying things in it, can we please have fewer frustrating components 🙏
#

I’m assuming the tree mud is being solved by adding a block blacklist to mud spawning mechanics

#

In which case, you could solve that by setting the cliff to a non-arena component block and blacklisting it

#

Paired with a fence would hopefully mean worms cannot end up down there and the hog cannot charge off the cliff

marble peak
#

i think tree mud is already fixed

merry forge
merry forge
#

"increased the frost buildup from all attacks" apparently means "get banished instantly if someone gets cleaved during swipes"

#

went from nearly spoiled bar to being in the lodge in the span of two crits

#

random instant forced failure for being in range to melee seems.. problematic for encouraging players to actually contribute to the fight

slender saddle
#

shrimply don't play a melee class

ebon osprey
#

what does
Adjusted count scaling in the Experiment 71 fight
and
Reduced the random variability for worm spawner count in the Experiment 71 fight
mean

#

for the former does it mean dr per worm, for the latter does it mean worm spawner is random and now the upper/lower bound is lower?

slender saddle
#

for the first idk
For the second it means that it spawns a more constant amount

ebon osprey
#

i see

marble peak
#

i think count scaling means players present

restive kernel
#

i will say 71 felt a lot more fair than before today

#

whether that's the update's achievement or my party is smth i dont know

merry forge
#

second attempt at new bear, this time watched the banish bar closely. dropped it to the edge of spoil, went in for one melee hit, banished in under a second by two clacks each worth half the bar fill

#

why

atomic geyser
# tender shale - summons or boss being able to be lead off the cliff pseudo-throwing the fight ...

For these, the cliff issue isn't something I'm sure how to solve, I might just look into expanding the size of the plateau there.

There's not much I can do about the particle indicators but I can look into if it's an issue with too many boss particles or if there's a network issue somewhere.

Hopefully issues revolving around worms have been resolved following the update.

I haven't found the wither roses to be an issue but if they are actually increasing the difficulty I can replace them since they're not supposed to impact the fight.

And for the geyser if it's still found to be hard to see I've had an idea to clarify it I can go through with.

atomic geyser
atomic geyser
#

Unless it's hyperbole

fair arch
#

check the values for frostbite application on attack?

atomic geyser
#

I did a decent amount of testing with the values

#

Never encountered it building up as quickly as described there

fair arch
#

is there player scaling?

atomic geyser
#

in what sense

fair arch
#

does it apply more fbite with more players

atomic geyser
#

no that would be delusional

tender shale
#
  • setting the blocks below the cliff into a non-grass block and blacklisting it
#

or however the trees work idk

atomic geyser
atomic geyser
tender shale
#

....?

#

what

atomic geyser
#

a regular fence isn't going to stop anything

tender shale
#

why not

#

I wasn't aware hog could jump

atomic geyser
#

hog can jump + hog has block break + players can jump

#

the block break on the hog is quite significant too

#

it would just flatten a fence

#

and I'm not going to change the block break since that would impact scenarios where people place blocks

tender shale
tender shale
#

I haven't found the wither roses to be an issue but if they are actually increasing the difficulty I can replace them since they're not supposed to impact the fight.

I don't think they're increasing the difficulty, they're just an additional annoyance to a fight that's already super frustrating

fair arch
atomic geyser
#

no

tender shale
atomic geyser
#

and I wouldn't add a blacklist to block break because then people can just place the block :

tender shale
#

idk if wither roses disable tempo, i would hope/assume not

fair arch
#

i would assume so

atomic geyser
#

maybe wither from them are deserved

fair arch
#

i think the simplest fix is just terraforming the arena

#

shove the cliff further away

tender shale
#

i went and checked, they do 1 flat dmg

#

so I guess fuck poise builds or something

atomic geyser
#

maybe don't stand on them

tender shale
#

it's 1-2 ticks of 1 dmg from running thru them, to clarify

#

which on 16 hp is 87.5%

versed lantern
#

Yeah the wither roses aren't like a hazard, it's just tedious. I just go around breaking them as the fight is starting

tender shale
#

again, I have no idea if they're influencing things to be more difficult or not

#

but they definitely do help to make the fight even less enjoyable than it already is for me

#

🤷‍♂️ but that's just my opinion

atomic geyser
#

everything is an opinion really

winged brook
# atomic geyser You could easily lable Mohg as anti-melee but nonetheless that is how 98% of peo...

I think you missed the point of TK's message here.
Mohg is anti-melee because he is challenging. But you can learn, dodge, and then slowly chip away at Mohg's HP. 71 is anti melee because dodging attacks means you must be at range.
But being at range means -50% ranged damage, so you dont even get the option to be at range and consistently dps.
So, your only option is to be super tanky to stay in melee, but then your dps gets cut off by 71's weakness attack.
So you cant do ranged DPS consistently, AND you cant do melee DPS consistently. So, is the idea behind 71 to do burst magic dps? What are we supposed to do as the 6 other classes?

#

You're right that you shouldn't be able to always DPS 100% of the time, but there is never an opportunity to deal good damage to the boss. Mogh has a stagger where you can get a big chunk of damage through. 71 doesn't stagger, so its only small chip damage. This gets worse with the DR systems in place for 71. Mogh has no "well you didnt mop up the blood so now you deal 1/10th of the damage" mechanic. 71 does.

#

I get the comparison to a hard melee boss but this is not an apt comparison, as someone who has beaten mohg in melee.

#

(and every other elden ring boss in the main line in melee)

versed lantern
#

Mohg also doesn't restart the fight (there isn't an ER equivalent to spoiling) if you go near him while you have a bleed timer active

winged brook
#

^ Mogh also cant be fought once every 12 hours on average, if we want to go there.

#

To be fair, it isn't "go near" its "attack"

atomic geyser
#

mohg actually has like basically the same attack

atomic geyser
versed lantern
#

Oh is 71 spoil on-hit only? I thought it was just being near him that's why I'm so afraid to go near him at any point

atomic geyser
#

yeah you have to have the parasite meter built up entirely

#

and then also hit him

versed lantern
#

Oh wow that's way less vicious than I thought

#

The dialogue just says "keep away from 71 or you'll infect it"

#

I don't think I've ever seen the meter go up past like 25% lol that's a ton of relief

#

No wonder I haven't ever seen a spoiled 71 chest

winged brook
#

also, he casts the scream once every few seconds

#

so its not like he is vulnerable often enough

cloud bluff
winged brook
#

pushes you away -> jumps away from you to someone else -> you approach -> stands in an attack that you have to dodge too -> pushes you away

atomic geyser
atomic geyser
winged brook
#

if the scream had a much longer cooldown i woudl agree, but you do not get to approach often enough

vast robin
#

I thought if you got a sound and the overlay at all then you would spoil

#

and thought that was fair enough

winged brook
#

post the code

atomic geyser
#

it turns red when its built up :

#

to be fair there are like 3 sounds as its built up

#

and theres like the guardian curse sound or whatever

#

on the final one

vast robin
#

baffling

atomic geyser
vast robin
#

I think during the cone and I thought that was cool

atomic geyser
#

there should be a check to specifically prevent that and i dont remember encountering that ever

winged brook
#

like 50% of the time yea

atomic geyser
#

oh well if its the cone it can jump after its started casting the cone

winged brook
#

no it casts the cone mid-air

#

then lands in it

#

the cone still applys on the ground but now its inside the cone

atomic geyser
#

me when step back 2 blocks for 1 second

winged brook
#

so you have to back out

winged brook
#

and by then its already screaming again

atomic geyser
#

i think this is not true information

#

they dont want you to know this

#

but you can like

winged brook
#

ive soloed this boss like 3 times

atomic geyser
#

ignore the mud

#

for like 80% of the time

winged brook
#

true! i can shrimply spoil.. forgot about that

atomic geyser
#

ive found it pretty hard to spoil even when ive been moving around on the mud

#

im pretty sure it builds up slower if you're jumping

#

which isnt exactly intentional but i dont think id remove that

#

and then if it casts mudquake or something you can just like

#

break the mud beneath yourself once

#

and you're safe

winged brook
#

tbh i havent willingly played 71 for almost a week

#

since the fight is so slow

#

so maybe i am giving false information based on this update

fair arch
atomic geyser
#

dont get hit i think

meager ridge
#

the fight is pretty fast now

#

btw is it intended to completely blank hits from muddy shriek and swift spikes with dodging

tender shale
wintry spire
tender shale
#

You have to clear the mud early ahead of time and not at the last second or you sometimes die to attacks affecting mud you removed

atomic geyser
#

same with riposte

#

its a potential design choice to have boss attacks ignore those skills but that would devalue them and not sure if its anything worth pursuing

meager ridge
#

iirc bloody fang from broodmother is proj damage and it ignores dodging?

atomic geyser
#

i think the solution is boss attacks do exclusively blast damage

lyric basin
atomic geyser
meager ridge
#

suffocating inside the amethyst blocks without taking damage is pretty funny

atomic geyser
lyric basin
#

weird brown character in the center of my screen

#

there was some frost overlay too prior for a second

atomic geyser
#

yeah thats the symbol that shows you've spoiled

#

not the progress though

lyric basin
#

where is the progress bar

tender shale
#

Boss bar

atomic geyser
#

bossbar labled "Parasites"

lyric basin
#

wild

atomic geyser
#

i really wish we had a better way of displaying how stuff works prior to fights

#

without having like a text popup on your screen that hovers over each ui element and says "this is what that does" and it has a next button and it says something like 1/23

#

and you explode yourself

tender shale
#

also does getting hit apply a debuff that increase freeze meter gain or something

atomic geyser
#

Potentially there's something that can hit multiple times, I can look into that

tender shale
#

idk what exactly hit me for 30% of the bar near the end but getting hit by that twice probably would've instantly banished me

atomic geyser
#

being further away from the boss does increase frost faster though

#

don't ask for the lore reason for that

tender shale
#

i'm assuming it's intended but i'm gonna make this complaint anyway

#

the ice makes it hard to avoid the pie slices

thorn field
#

I honest like that the spoil/banish in Coca Cola is something you have to care a lot more about with the damage changes

#

Some of the attacks do probably freeze you a bit more than they should

tender shale
#

specifically the one where its split into 3

thorn field
tender shale
#

I'm bad and keep sliding out of the safezone back into the hitbox suffer

#

i also don't understand the targeting on the one where it's a single large safezone

#

does it track whoever cola is aggro'd to

atomic geyser
#

which is the only way to deal with people nowadays

#

since players are just unkillable

tender shale
#

i'm not entirely sure the behavior on the atk but the safezone kinda just wildly flails around

atomic geyser
#

Some of the slashes could probably be slower

tender shale
#

while that'd be cool i just don't understand that atk in specific

#

is the safezone like locked to behind the boss or something

tender shale
#

the day before the update someone decided it'd be funny to full facetank hug cola

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most of the party ended up wiping from the resulting melee cleave spam

atomic geyser
#

not boss rotational

tender shale
atomic geyser
#

what :

tender shale
#

wdym what

atomic geyser
#

I do not know what you mean

tender shale
#

man i should've recorded the fight

#

its like ruten's

atomic geyser
#

There's a variation of the slash where it alternates between two areas

tender shale
#

slice of life attack

atomic geyser
#

that doesn't exist

tender shale
#

thonk while i'm aware my memory sucks, surely there's no way it's so bad that i'm forgetting things that just happened right

#

unless this is a lag thing again

atomic geyser
#

potentially...

merry forge
# atomic geyser Unless it's hyperbole

nah, literal two clacks and gone. one more reason to wish i could remember to set recording back up at a time that doesnt inexplicably summon people to burst through the door demanding attention

image.png
#

there was also uhhh

[Skadi]Skadl:
i think smth was wrong on the frozen buildup
[Skadi]Skadl: got max frozen buildup in 1 second after the boss spawned

78f01caf324834fe7433900c2e518921.png
tender shale
#

is mud geyser supposed to have an orange ring where it spawns

ebon osprey
#

at least from my own video doesn't looks like it

cloud bluff
#

starts to feel like a "yknow how ice is annoying in cz lets do it again" thing

ebon osprey
#

now the 71 fight feel better to do

tender shale
#

it feels like it does initially and then by the end of the fight it stops having one

fair arch
#

monumenta players need recording software

tender shale
merry forge
#

my third bear since update i finally recorded only to have the frostbite per attack be reasonable. largest jump was only like an eighth which would normally be spooky but is far from half

tender shale
#

hi i am here to complain again

#

just fought core elemental and uh

#

enhance

#

new stupid combo I've encountered:
rumbling emergence -> somehow end up in ceiling -> block break a small ledge in ceiling -> cast convergence -> deal rapid and extremely difficult to avoid convergence ticks trying to and failing to pull players upwards into the safe zone on the ceiling suffer

shrewd roost
# tender shale

Idk if it’s a coincidence or source of the issue, but if he emerges in the ceiling he’s always next to a lavafall (from the ones I’ve witnessed)

tender shale
tender shale
#

if the server is lagging both will hit u simultaneously for >50% of your frost bar

#

that paired with a followup atk can combo KO you if your bar is anything more than near empty

tender shale
#

i got shoved on top of the boss while it was casting it by someone else and ate like 70% of my bar in one go

atomic geyser
#

Yeah i think standing on top of it would add multiple

#

I kind of feel like thats deserved but it could be prevented possibly

versed lantern
#

Can I get confirmation, in Core Elemental, do you get the "The Sulphur is being burnt" chat message when you destory fire blocks in the arena?

#

It's like the one mechanic of that fight I still don't understand, but it would feel weird to be punished for trying to make the arena safer

tender shale
#

U can put out the fires from further away and u should be fine?

meager ridge
versed lantern
#

Does it happen arena wide, ie if someone else gets hit it applies to everyone? I feel like I haven't been damaged by fire and have gotten the message in chat a ton

#

I always try and break the fire to make the arena safer and have my chat spammed half the time lol

velvet nimbus
#

the fire thing is really weird and feels bad imo

#

its just get a random speed and res debuff from ???

cloud bluff
#

is that the "sulphur is being burnt" thing

velvet nimbus
#

yes

cloud bluff
#

yeah i still dont know what makes that happen

#

also spams your chat for no reason

2025-04-12_22.47.50.png
fair arch
#

i’m pretty sure it’s how much fire is present in the arena

timid lantern
#

For me it’s 1. Not obvious where it’s from 2. Not obvious what it does

wet charm
#

Frankly the Aloc Acoc frostbite scaling when it comes to getting hit feels extremely excessive. It is not reasonable to go from ~25-35% Frostbite to instantly banished upon getting hit one time.

little harness
#

i went from this to banished 😭

image.png
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in 1 ice ray thingo

wet charm
#

I went from wayyy less to banished lol

little harness
#

damn

wet charm
#

I always try to keep it between 20-30% in my gameplay and I instantly got banished

#

I think it takes the scaling from people getting hit around you which just feels like another unnecessary "don't play a melee class" mechanic

neat wren
#

Could Aloc's slash speed be decreased? Trying to dodge the slashes while the ice floor does everything in its power to stop you (and thus failing to dodge quite often) does not make for the most pleasant experience.

merry forge
#

or every attack in range adds frost regardless of iframes and such, which would be similarly excessive

versed lantern
#

I’ve only done 1 aloc since the changes but I didn’t have any issues controlling my heat, it went up slightly more than before but I never got high enough to freeze. The ice definitely makes dodging the slashes a bit more difficult than it’s worth, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable atm

merry forge
#

it seems to vary wildly. of the 3 ive done. 1 of them it was entirely reasonable. 2 of them did 50% of the bar per incident of damage received

fair arch
#

aloc just happened

meager ridge
#

aloc acoc increases frostbite meter by a lot if the beams multihit

fair arch
#

getting hit by beams is a 50% frostbite i think

versed lantern
#

Yeah I saw the ⚠️ sign for the first time in the fight just gone, think I got hit by 2 beams at once which instantly shot me up, still managed to control it though and won unspoiled

tender shale
#

The biggest issue imo is control

tender shale
#

Player collision is a danger in this fight with the ice magnifying the amount u get moved if someone shoves u

#

Since frostbite meter scales with your distance from the boss, ppl are encouraged to cram themselves close to it

#

So u have a bunch of ppl erratically moving around to dodge atks in a small space pushing each other

#

The ice beam attack can instant banish you if you’re too close to the boss because it can multi-hit, and getting shoved into it is a legitimate risk you have to watch out for

#

imo the ice player collision + multi-hit comboing together is kind of a “nail in the coffin” thing that tips the fight over to being actively anti-melee

#

Your own team mates are now environmental hazards you have to avoid and having ppl behind u is dangerous yet unavoidable as melee

merry forge
#

curious what the reasoning for changing muddy mangrove roots to regular mangrove roots in experiment 71 was

atomic geyser
#

visibility

merry forge
#

but it's the exact same color profile, now it just requires a second tool type to break 🤔

lyric basin
#

One has a very distinct lack of mud?

merry forge
#

the contrast issue was with podzol, not mud

#

example

lyric basin
#

it wont matter much but the first image uses the wrong side of the block

atomic geyser
#

yeah and mangrove roots stands out much more on each of those blocks

plush forge
#

I would have preferred any block mineable by a shovel

#

Because now I am going around carrying clearcut in the set to mine those

winged brook
#

yeah no it should be shovel breakable

lyric basin
#

soul soil could work

image.png
tardy fog
#

pretty please

atomic geyser
#

Big fan of the axe personally

winged brook
#

The npc doesn’t sell one

atomic geyser
#

It has a low hardness you can break it with a non axe tool in 1 second

lyric basin
deft yoke
#

+1

versed lantern
#

I feel like impenetrable would be improved with a different style of astral attack. The current alpha-style spinner is still "predictable", but it's also just sending projectiles everywhere, which currently just promotes me to playing scout so I don't even have to risk it.

If the pattern was more like Beta, Epsilon or Nu - more controlled, then going in to melee during the attack would be much more enticing as I could switch my focus from dodging to attacking and back again instead of having to try and do both at once currently.

This may end up making the fight a little easier, and therefore I think it would also be cool if the line attack you have to move perpendicular to (which is imo the coolest attack from any hunts boss) is used more often, as I maybe see it 3 times per fight (ie a single use in a burst), compared to other attacks proccing much more regularly.

atomic geyser
#

I've been considering larger scale touch ups on Impenetrable, and if I did something I would probably just cut the astral attack since I'm not sure any variation of it would play very well

versed lantern
#

I like it having an astral attack as it's "basic attack" along with the small sweep, I just think the current type just serves to make it way harder to play melee during the fight, which is always a difficult issue to solve.

tender shale
#

Cant u just place a block to avoid the astral entirely

#

Also the standing on shulker detection seems to not work if you spam jumps

#

So the melee dps can bhop on the boss rather safely

wispy quartz
#

Impenetrable could probably just use a different mechanic, the problem with astral styled projectiles is that arena is literally a cave, theres tons of verticality to just stand above them without trouble

tender shale
#

it's a cave, it should cast mini-vdemise but it's falling stalactites withering

marble peak
#

by move up i mean target

tender shale
#

@atomic geyser new bug interaction i encountered with core elemental

#

it tried to cast banish mid rumbling emergence and then emergence yeeted it out of the arena thru the ceiling banishing the entire party

#

or well I guess it's two bugs even

#
  • rumbling emergence can toss the boss out of the arena
  • core elemental can cast banish with other abilities
atomic geyser
#

A bug report would be helpful but I'll forward it internally

tender shale
#

I just had cola bear spawn nearly on top of me and immediately cast the ice beam double hit and banish me pepega

#

wtb lower starting frostbite meter

pure flame
#

The advertisers got it correct!

patent anchor
#

hunt is dead

#

when replayability

ebon osprey
#

is.. not.dead?

tender shale
grave jetty
#

how did you not banish if it was in the ceiling

tender shale
#

I threw myself at it with ire

#

To clarify, it didnt cast emergence this time, it knocked me back down with an atk while i was going up to it

merry forge
#

new uamiel spoil visual seems much harder to see than release one

#

it's larger but it's low and against the main boss outline and in the midst of every attack visual

versed lantern
#

I feel like the balance between the difficulty of the fight and the challenge the spoil presents within Experiment 71 is out of wack compared to other Hunts bosses.

With the recent nerfs the fight is much more doable with less full team wipes, but still present the most risk out of all bosses. I regularly see around half the participants die during the fight to damage, not to banishes or spoils.

To add to this I don't think I have ever seen someone spoil the boss, and never myself. It's not brilliant evidence, but I like to pick up every chest on the ground after a fight to hoard, the blank spot is where the spoiled 71 chest should be.

I think it would be better if the spoil was easier to come by, but the pacing and difficulty of the fight was slightly toned back. The only difference I would make is increasing the delay between attacks by a small amount, as currently it feels like there is constantly something happening, if not multiple things at once, which can be hard to deal with while also dodging worms, mining mud and then finally trying to damage the boss at all. Meanwhile I honestly if think mud accumulation was double or triple as fast then it would be something to actively avoid and think about during the fight

image.png
#

I feel like this is also the case in Hawk, the spoil is rarely seen and the biggest threat is from just dying, but that fight doesn't have as much going on in it and really only suffers from a single damaging move in my experience

marble peak
#

i have 3 spoiled 71 chests

#

1 intentionaly myself, others found

#

hawk spoil is is just easy to avoid once u know

ebon osprey
#

current both shulker and magma cube are very easy to spoil if not fight carefully or have something go out last second, which i think is good cause it really ask player to pay attention. Based on this, Hawk spoiled is really annoy as sometime is really hard to tell when it gonna attack, and hawk as phantom require player draw proj weapon which conflict, sure u can still move while draw, but then its hard to dodge attack, obvious move become use qd and pred strike, just dodge attack wait cd back, in short i think hawk fight is too much downtime.

On the other hand, 71 really require teamplay, as rn i don't think a average player can really handle clear root, dig mud when need, dodge attack, kill worm given how quick 71 cast skill, like TkTom said, i more likely see ppl die to damage, at one point there will have ton of skill around arena that u are forced to step on mud, which somehow be a good move because as long as player don't hit 71 when parasite bar full.

#

like tktom said, i would perfer 71's skill cast frequency tone down so there has more time to react, given what I experience 71 damage is also higher then other boss, not like I think face tank everything is good, but it hit really hard even with hiero + other support, to the point i think it could be tone down, mainly scatter shot and geyser

#

and btw i don't think ppl really figure out what gas burnt thing in core elemental is, i believe it related to magma block and give some debuff, but there has no obvious counterplayer if there has, and player more likely will use fire resis potion before fight so is more a my screen get block effect

marble peak
ebon osprey
#

as someone who dps 71 i am really sure that's not true

versed lantern
#

My only guess for sulphur burning is that it's a team wide effect that punishes everyone if anyone does something, but I also don't even know what that something is. It kinda just ends up being a permanent slowness effect in the fight, which makes it a little tedious, but it also doesn't really affect the difficulty imo

merry forge
#

shulker and magma cube are also very easy to spoil by making the mistake of ever healing people with hand of light

tender shale
#

Only if it spams core expansion faster than i can put them out

#

I have no actual idea if it’s the fires triggering it to clarify, i just hate having fires everywhere

#

But it seems to correlate

tender shale
#

If you’re melee there isnt really much to do besides run around to dodge the charges + pick up feathers while u wait for it to come down to collect feathers

versed lantern
tender shale
#

If you’re trying to snipe the hawk, it feels like spoil is a fair bit more of a concern

#

Which boils back down to my complaints that the fights kinda punish u for engaging with them

#

There is technically nothing forcing me to be a hiero

#

But between how rare it is for any1 else to go hiero, the massively increased fatality rate from loss of rain + rampant miasma passive, the increased kill time from loss of +69% party dmg, and the decreased spoil risk from not having to frequently hit the boss, i am kind of soft throwing if i do not

#

Cola bear is currently the boss where that seems to be the least true, but even then it still has minor problems

#

Notably the disproportionately high multhit risk for melee players

versed lantern
#

Yeah hawk is definitely an odd one and I'm not sure what to really do about it

tender shale
#

Collecting feathers to toss into the nest to make it go down faster wouldve been nice imo

ebon osprey
#

i run around shot it a pstrike and maybe qd it a fewt ime while running around

#

guess that's all i do after fall from pillar i built

tender shale
#

Its logical and allows ppl not scout or earrow mage to engage

versed lantern
#

I think it would be nice if there was more opportunities to bring it down and having power spread from the explosive feathers into a new move while it's down perhaps?

ebon osprey
#

we should totally increase hawk skill cast frequency

tender shale
#

Some consistency with the flight path would be nice too

charred tinsel
ebon osprey
#

what does this mean, just get this from a lag as fuck Umaiel fight

image.png
#

think i get this after it break into wall and i stood there try melee it (but it already walk away becuase i am lagging)

fb2025-04-20_21.34.12.png
tender shale
#

Probably out of bounds warning?

ebon osprey
#

Yeah i guess

charred tinsel
civic summit
#

Since if you're proj you avoid them so you can do damage, and if your melee you grab them to clear the field of area denial + make the bird come down

#

Different strategy depending on your class

civic summit
#

And stepping in the rings gives debuffs

#

Its area denial

#

Also magmatic convergence is a get-in-the-ring attack

#

Or you get pulled towards it, blinded for a little, and take damage

versed lantern
grave jetty
#

but i think that was after parasites got turned into a bar and i thought it would only spoil if the bar was filled

merry forge
cloud bluff
#

this is a really bad spot for the shulker to tp to

2025-04-21_17.30.42.png
#

like technically you can get to it but it just feels unfair

hot mica
#

the past 3-4 exp71s i've participated in have been a fullwipe/close to a full wipe

#

also, the parasite blocks were changed to mangrove roots, which certainly makes them more visible, but it also means that you need to bring an axe, which i've noticed most don't expect

#

it should probably be changed to another insta-break shovel block

#

mycelium would be a good pick if the parasite vanity was changed to match it

#

also idk if this is just a me issue but i feel like the arena could use a little more space. it's only happened to me twice but sometimes mud geysers/the big mud cone attack can just pin you to a ceiling like the antium wall or a tree and just kill you

merry forge
fringe anvil
#

but ive not greeded yet so maybe its not actually that risky to just mine like 1 block under you

tender shale
#

can someone actually confirm explicitly how the sulfur gimmick on core elemental works

#

I've heard dozens of different theories at this point and no direct answer

#

I've been testing it across a dozen fights at this point and it happens regardless of if i stand near or far from the fires or orange floor particles, whether or not i put out the fires, etc

#

At this point I can't help but feel its almost certainly bugged in some way

versed lantern
merry forge
#

the unclickable reply

grave jetty
merry forge
#

well, burning remains a mystery, but at least now i now there's a bug with distant replies where you're better off replying to the immediate message and message linking the old thing

marble peak
#

the reply text