Hunts Feedback Thread

[vagrant dagger]

im using normal agi rogue with athreads

[grave pasture]

as in not a darkstar agrippa build

if so then thats pretty low ehp yeah one shot might make sense

[vagrant dagger]

what rogue builds are "high" ehp

or how much ehp is like low

[shut prawn]

3 digit ehp on all damage type

[vagrant dagger]

ok i have 3 digit on 3/4 but i have 94 magic ehp...

[shut prawn]

im gonna be honest with you, idk about melee dmg but the pig does not do too much

yeah i think that's low

[vagrant dagger]

maybe ill use overgrown bodkin

improves my magic ehp to 115

which is fine right?

but also 3 other people in the ring got one shot so idk if it was just me

[shut prawn]

yeah i have 118 on my scout build

but again no idea on the melee dmg part so

[grave pasture]

i think cqmera being one shot around the 120 range

but thats definitely better

i think this is scaled as post starpoint they all hit decently hard enough to scare off old builds

[vagrant dagger]

should i always run overgrown instead of ex kingslayer the ehp diff never felt really noticable on sage

[grave pasture]

i think yes but theres a lot of different options now since starpoint

[tender shale]

would be nice to know what dmg types the bosses are doing, pig in particular

[shut prawn]

ok kinda geting of topic can you guys bring it over to gameplay if we're discussing builds

[tender shale]

can just get away with cloak stack for the others

[shut prawn]

i was gonna bring up something about pig and now i forot

[grave pasture]

given by reflection things should be mostly magic/blast

[marble peak]

ex wardens ruin best boss hunt item fr

[wispy quartz]

So the new epic shield has Unbreakable
literally every other shield in game has at best - Mending, even the Two epic ones we have (memorandum and Aurora variants) the Reason is obvious:
Player can't just hold right click to cheese things, or wait for regen to heal 'em up while they sit with 20 mobs in a corner blocking all hits into heat death of universe
And now this shield has it
Some might say "Theres many block breaking attacks in r3" To which the reponse is:

1. You can go into many PoIs, and even sirius, and just hold right click and not be punished whatsoever
2. The convinently newely released infusion borderline removes that as a problem

People will be mad, but for balance reason that shield should go down to Mending, with couple levels of Unbreaking at best, but not Unbreakable

[errant adder]

And what will even change

[manic hemlock]

Doesn't retaliation stun the shield for 1s when blocking any hit?

[violet jacinth]

It doesn't now

[manic hemlock]

Oh

I don't really think unbreakable will make the shield different

Its not like shields are can't already eat 100s of hits before breaking lol

[strange briar]

I think the corner argument is just a very niche situation

you can do the same on every other shield with the difference being that unlike being able to sit there for 5mins you can sit forever, which isn't exactly an issue in any content

[tender shale]

If you want to use the “unbreakable allows infinite camping argument” and be taken seriously then imo you should also be pushing for the removal of Mending and disable Empowered for shields since these allow the same to happen

[strange briar]

I think all it really does is save you a lot of anvils

[marble peak]

and nerf collosal too

[harsh isle]

Yeah and to add to that after those 5min you only need to open your inventory for a few seconds to anvil the shield

[marble peak]

idk what content would be cheesed by holding shield for 5min

[manic hemlock]

Gallery

[safe rivet]

Unbreakable does not mean the shield can never be stunned I do not know where this comes from

It will be changed but I could not find any scenario where it wouldn't stun where a normal shield would

[strange briar]

what will be changed?

[safe rivet]

Unbreakable -> unbreaking and mending

[strange briar]

surely that's not the case because of the 1 feedback comment?

[safe rivet]

It was decided on earlier

[strange briar]

makes sense then

[sharp briar]

more likely the case because it's a general standard for shields, yea

enough unbreaking and mending and you basically get the same product

just with the stipulation of not holding shield in corner

[safe rivet]

Right but I want to know what unbreakable does that we want to avoid, because I could not find anything

Axes work, abilities work. What else is there?

[sharp briar]

I don't think it's so much the stun, but it's the fact that it will not shatter from durability usage if it's just held up against an army of swords

[marsh canyon]

that does have axe mobs

[sharp briar]

Unbreaking and mending allows you to still hold it up against an army of swords, but it won't last forever

[marsh canyon]

and elites also break the shield

[strange briar]

is that not an unrealistic scenario

[safe rivet]

That sounds very unrealistic

[sharp briar]

There's a lot of unrealistic scenarios we have to build around for when the new release/content/rework makes it realistic

better to future proof things when we can see the possibility coming, especially in a situation like this where unbreaking and mending can pretty much offer the exact same tech as unbreakable

[strange briar]

fair enough

[sharp briar]

basically 0 impact on the normal/intended use while cutting out the risk

[safe rivet]

I guess that's my fault for not asking why we did it, thought it was an old jank mojang thing where unbreakable on shields made them unable to be stunned by axes

[sharp briar]

ah, no not aware of any mojank on that one thankfully

[meager ridge]

is that why predator strike does so much damage to hawk since no one is near it

[coral tusk]

Think that’s just predator strike

“Nearby” isn’t nearby it’s the size of the arena

[meager ridge]

[oblique pulsar]

I d like to see more banish/spoil mechanics like coca cola. A lot of them feel like they are buggy insta onetaps or have no indicators for the spoils. Some attacks have delay and it just becomes a game of rng . They also discourage ppl from dpsing due to fear of spoiling.

[manic hemlock]

I think spoil mechanics that spoil the loot "on hit" condition should spoil the loot if player fails 3 times

spoiling instantly on single hit is kinda ehhh

[oblique pulsar]

i think i got spoiled on unamiel cause of frost spirit

[manic hemlock]

[oblique pulsar]

The hoglin is also alright but the banish is buggy. The first time i did it , it banished me even when i mined mud(I think that also happened to cqmera).

I wasnt standing on it as well

[manic hemlock]

the banish mech kinda just feels like a big fuck you to new players and doesn't really bring anything else to the table

if the boss constantly applied banish at times it would be more interesting I think

take aloc aloc for example

I think that banish is interesting

but something like unamiel is kinda boring since they only cast it once

banish should be a constant threat to make it actually mechanic instead of a gimmick

[plush forge]

The shield force shatters on ANY hit, it doesn’t matter if you have unbreakable vs mending

You can never do what you’re saying, ever

[manic hemlock]

they removed the stun

[plush forge]

HUH

Yeah that’s crazy

They need to change it lol

[manic hemlock]

it should've just been like 0.25s cooldown

so you can't spam it

[plush forge]

My apologies

[manic hemlock]

1s is just too much

[winged brook]

you have to break like 3 tiles

[safe rivet]

I had tried with a much lower stun duration but ultimately it was just antifun and conflicted with the items design

[oblique pulsar]

3 blocks or ?

[winged brook]

idk just keep digging mud until the bar goes away

it usually takes like 3 blocks manually broken

for it to do it

[oblique pulsar]

i think i mined like 10+

[winged brook]

okay lol thats wrong

[oblique pulsar]

like i was mage and when my spells were on cd i was just mining

[meager ridge]

you probably mined all the mud before the banish attack had cast and there were none left

[marble peak]

dont mine mud before banish is so

the real hunt starts after banish

[oblique pulsar]

Okay so i got banished because of core elemental iframes.

i clicked on it at least 3 times and nothing

Bossbar did not appear . It might be that

[rugged steppe]

@oblique pulsar any chance you know which ring shard you were on? going to check for errors that might cause that

[oblique pulsar]

10 i think

yeah 10

I saw only its healthbar . No other bars for attacks

[thorn field]

I think the bar specifically for the banish seems to be bugged, I’ve noticed it in the two I’ve done since the latest hotfix

[versed lantern]

I was on ring-10 also and I saw banishes and spoils fine

[oblique pulsar]

Aloc's bar completely disappeared for me yesterday as well

[versed lantern]

Very strange

[rugged steppe]

aloc should be hotfixed, please ping me if it happens again today

probably something similar with experiment that I have to find

[trim socket]

r-1 no telegraph on core elemental for me for banish attack specifically

on latest hunt

[meager ridge]

r6 no boss bar on banish attack, maybe because it cast that while being unstable

[vagrant jackal]

@little harness see it definitely wasn't me on 30mins sleep it happened to kcal too

-1 core elemental

always punished 😔

[grave jetty]

i was in ring 11 and did not see the banish boss bar but other bars worked fine (spoil, attacks, etc)

[restive kernel]

bye pig

[marble peak]

General:

• On hit spoils should be better telegraphed, have longer grace or only be triggered after 3 times. It is unclear what spoils usually (Brute Force, general aoe spells).
• Various bugs.
  Experiment Seventy-One
• Way too punishing for melee.
• Red particle attack (Mud Swipe?) is hard understand where safe area is, maybe make the safe area have green border.
• Mud should be dug in 3x3, not +.
• Spoil effect is hard to notice (powder snow freeze overlay?), nearly not present.
• Banish feels unintuitive.
  Steel Wing Hawk
• Let melee player contribute in some way, maybe a goal which makes the phantom perch.
  Aloc Acoc
• Add a bar which shows something related to spoil.
  Uamiel
• No proper experience to say something.
  The Impenetrable
• General complains.
  Core Elemental
• General complains.

[thorn field]

I honestly think the Impenetrable closing is at least visually shown with the boss bar showing the open/close status

(which, btw, really cool feature)

[winged brook]

Yeah boss bar indicates impen closing

It’s the only thing I noticed the one time I got to try it at 9000 ping

[tender shale]

exp 71 banish also allows unintentional griefing if players try to go for the same mud

[winged brook]

Exp 71 needs a different banish I agree

[tender shale]

ppl tend to overmine the amount of mud needed for banish leaving little left

[winged brook]

Maybe if you’re hit by parasites too often with a slow decay timer?

[tender shale]

the biggest issue imo with exp 71 for melee is that it leaves mud as it walks turning the area immediately around it into a constant and unremovable danger zone for getting nuked

i also still think there's something bugged with the minion based DR

i joined a few fights late as practice where I definitely did not have the weakness debuff, minions were all dead, and I was point blank and pstrike still was doing sub 50 dmg

[winged brook]

Yeah bug is known and reported by me

[tender shale]

for exp 71's banish when i read the description pre-release I assumed it'd work like drask's cage and you'd have to quickly dig your way out or die

could spawn a patch of mud under every player when the attack starts maybe

[velvet nimbus]

i think it could be made more apparent what that means because its just 2 symbols compared to whole boss bars for stuff like uamiel and core elemental

[merry forge]

the first time i fought it that indicator never changed. it was always full square

the second time i fought it, it did change. it's still just.. a faster transition than anything with low projectile speed takes to go from hand to damage event to lol spoiled fight

[grave jetty]

i think uamiel is the most solid, doesnt feel overly tanky and banish/spoil is pretty clear
actually i dont remember if its shield coming up has any windup bar so it might be nice to get one (same with core elemental)

[ebon osprey]

friend said shulker attack reduce his armor's dura, is that intend

[grave jetty]

heres the impenetrable open --> close shown on bossbar (i had no idea of it before)

[winged brook]

it has windup bar around 3 seconds

[grave jetty]

🔥 so just the magma cube getting it would be nice then

[winged brook]

magma cube does have a windup bar for the spoil the banish one is bugged

the spoil windup bar is every attack windup bar

[thorn field]

technically Core has a windup via the ability casting

[winged brook]

since its post every attack

[thorn field]

And yeah the banish one is bugged unfortunately

Sounds like nobody(pi) is looking into it

[grave jetty]

oh

[velvet nimbus]

uamiel is definitely my favorite of them

[tender shale]

making open/close its own bar that fills or empties depending on open or close would be cool and visually easier i think

but personally i think the open and closing animation on the existing bar is super cool already

[winged brook]

big 71 fan here but the dr is big issue

[ebon osprey]

compare to phantom 71 has high dr generally, but high dr phantom sounds not fun

and from what nicknon said, maybe increase range? (i heard 8 block away give it 50% dr)

[grave jetty]

yea i dont think phantom should be dying in 30s but i also dont want it to take 20 minutes because its flying too much

[ebon osprey]

increase time/frequency phantom collect feather ?

[grave jetty]

that should be alright

because the melees will feel useful

[thorn field]

coca cola was one I really enjoyed, can't wait to do one now that the bar is fixed

honestly I've liked all of them

[winged brook]

hjavent tried coca cola

[restive kernel]

Coca cola has by far the best designed banish mechanic

If they were put on a coolness meter the distance from coca cola to the 2nd best one would be like 100x of 2nd to 3rd

[slim bane]

Did all bosses

I would say that the indicator for banish skill looks fine now for me , spoil skill maybe add a symbol or sth?
I’ll test with higher particles settings to see normal skills

[tender shale]

i like cola's spoil/banish the most personally

[grave jetty]

please tell me they are never gonna nerf an army of 20 people running into a different ring to help others out

[plush forge]

Please do not nerf 71 dr 🙏

[lyric basin]

the other players helping have reduced damage alr

[plush forge]

I’m praying

[slim bane]

71 dr is fine

it's the weakness it apply

[velvet nimbus]

71 dr is NOT fine

[plush forge]

It’s extremely fun seeing everyone gank 71

[slim bane]

I mean if you count weakness as dr then ye

[plush forge]

71 DR works based on range to the boss?

[slim bane]

8 blocks

amount of worms on field

ppl on field

[velvet nimbus]

being far away, worms alive

and something else

[slim bane]

and there is skill that inflict infinity stackable 15s weakness

[plush forge]

Oh what

[velvet nimbus]

the orange particles

[plush forge]

Infinite stackable weakness is crazy

[slim bane]

#screenshots message

[velvet nimbus]

but it only lasts like 5 seconds

[slim bane]

15

funny to see like 30 ppl went to help that cause the player scaling dr that make it get hit by all of them in 20% health still survive almost 1min

[merry forge]

i am still confused that the quarry arenas arent just adventure mode, when of the 3 with a reason to not be flat:
core elemental - supposed to levitate players but bad at actually working
steel wing - some people cant figure out how to take fall damage in an area with 7 blocks of vertical variance
impenetrable - in an area with so much build noise that finding the boss after it teleports is one of the mechanics

[slim bane]

the core levitate skill said by dev is a safe-proof not the main way to do the boss

and ye it's a bit weird

main way to do is block up or mobility etc

levitate is use for people who get push my boss hitbos

and work as safe-proof

-#

[merry forge]

in that case the next most obvious way to deal with it would be loom stair mode oh wait

[tender shale]

ire quickdraw or beam

scout stays winning

[grave jetty]

ire is a few blocks short

[sharp briar]

ire for hawk?

[slim bane]

ruins epic

-#

[sharp briar]

think i ire'd and fell even to launch or maybe 1 block down and it worked here

[grave jetty]

ire for magma cube is a few blocks short

its fine for hawk

[sharp briar]

probably jump + ire

ah, gotcha

i just build up core, my skill does not include ire tricks

[merry forge]

same i just complain about not getting levitated the whole time, then get banished anyway because my melee damage wasnt high enough to get through iframes

[tender shale]

2 shots of ire recoil is still short?

[grave jetty]

not everybody is a scout

ik you said qd but i thought i should clarify that anybody just shooting 1 ire isnt going to make it

[sharp briar]

i tried like 2-3 times and one of them worked for me, just 1 ire shot without qd

[grave jetty]

i think ire is like ~6 blocks while the cubes flies up like 10 blocks
and with your hit potentially missing because of iframes (or you look up too slowly) it might just be safer to build up

[tender shale]

sure but i specified scout/hiero

[winged brook]

I just built 3 blocks then hirmnir

[marsh canyon]

that was enough for me

[lyric basin]

I was fine with 1 ire shot

[grave pasture]

worst case the strategy could just be being a scout for the start of the fight until banish

but yeah ire alone felt short and inconsistent

[merry forge]

obviously the play is buy another ire

[merry forge]

my enthusiasm for this content continues to suffer from finding weird edge cases to trigger the forced fail mechanics with

[marble peak]

next time drink a venoumous potion

[tender shale]

your fault for using the cheap stuff

[errant adder]

your'e

[tender shale]

no u

[errant adder]

nuh uh

[plucky lion]

yo do we not have a system that stop boss form repeating?

[plush forge]

They should add just b2b prevention I think

It keeps it more interesting

[robust brook]

I think experiment 71 has wayy too much dr

[wintry spire]

it went fine right now

[robust brook]

I did like

10 damage to it

[wintry spire]

you just need to kill all the miud...

[robust brook]

with my trident

[wintry spire]

if no one is doing it dr gets cooked

[robust brook]

huh

the mud is related to its dr??

[fair arch]

Experiment 71's mud tossing should be confined to a smaller arena i think

[ebon osprey]

no i think

[fair arch]

atm it can go on the leaves and trees and walls of the Keep

[ebon osprey]

is the mob it summon give it dr

[robust brook]

Yeah im ngl I dont think we had that many worms

it felt like 90% dr

[fair arch]

i was dealing 1 damage screwdriver shots LMAO

so yeah it's 92%

[fair arch]

@atomic geyser is it intentional that the mud goes into places which are impractical to reach

it feels kinda bad to do that

[wintry spire]

tree and wall mud 🙏

[ebon osprey]

iirc being farway from it(8 block) also give it like 50% dr

Accroding to Nicknon

[marble peak]

71 having a stacking weaken attack upclose and dr from range

[atomic geyser]

What locations are you thinking of

[marble peak]

walls and trees

[atomic geyser]

There's no point to stopping it from going there because it doesn't do anything there

[fair arch]

does mud give DR? or does mud existing for a long time spawn worms?

[atomic geyser]

neither

[marble peak]

mudquake has fixed dmg right?

[atomic geyser]

What would not fixed be

[fair arch]

scales with players, scales with mobs

[marble peak]

or with mud

[atomic geyser]

that would be kind of silly

[marble peak]

actually does mudquake deal dmg per mud u touching

[atomic geyser]

scaling per player is just kind of

why would anything ever do that

and scaling with amount is pointless because it already does that because more is harder to dodge

[atomic geyser]

It shouldn't

[marble peak]

im asking as more of a technicality

[atomic geyser]

What does this mean

[marble peak]

is it one attack or many dif per mud

[atomic geyser]

It's one attack

[bold kraken]

That's strange because you get weakened seemingly specifically for being close to it. I had to repeatedly back off to wait out the damage/resistance penalty.

[ebon osprey]

i guess idea is u go in deal damage, try avoid kb, retreat

repeat

encourage careful close range burst

...

first strike?!

[bold kraken]

Also whatever governs any of those three mechanics - the DR, the damage/resistance penalty and the spoil - needs better indicators. I spent so much time on my tablist to see what debuffs I did or didn't have and for how long, and that doesn't inform me about any DR the boss may or may not have.

Aside from that I kinda like the boss, the mud being something you need to manage as a group is a cool unique mechanic for the fight to have (though I share sentiments that its spread gets a little extreme at times) and aside from the red rings sometimes indicating that you need to be inside of them but outside at other times the mechanics felt clear enough.

[coral tusk]

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced the 🐗 tending to jump towards the casino/pelias keep wall

[winged brook]

#bug-reports message

[coral tusk]

I wonder if it’s targeting people there

Exploding boar head

[winged brook]

the dir of the jump is the same as galengarde just really far away

so i think dying doesnt take you out of the jump target list

[meager ridge]

parasites should appear as a boss bar instead of custom effect

[grave jetty]

when the pig rolls down the hill

[atomic geyser]

the leap targets whoever is being targeted by its regular AI

so it could be doing that if it's somehow aggroed onto someone far away

but that doesn't seem possible

A distance cap could potentially band aid it

have it redirect if the distance is too far

[plucky lion]

TM pls make so there's a lesser chance of the boss repeating, i dont wanna fight 71 and uamiel anymore

[atomic geyser]

state mandated peak.

[winged brook]

okay, curse of core

[meager ridge]

when experiment 71 goes out of arena, tp it back to middle

[velvet nimbus]

im ok with only uamiel

[fair arch]

big fan of the boss arenas being somewhat uneven tbh

i’ve complained before that most arenas are just circles but these are really cool

[oblique pulsar]

I feel like a boss every 2 hours would be a lot more convenient than a boss between 1.5 to 2.5 hrs. Would be better to plan for longer content.

[versed lantern]

Honestly I kind of agree, having less variance in the time frame of fights would give me more time to plan ahead. Especially playing solo and having other things happening like typing to people, sometimes I might not be able to finish the POI I'm on in 15 mins, I had to rush to clear an amanita the other day and missed out on the entire cave pit section just to get to the pinata + boss in time.

If I have to account for a boss spawning in the next minute potentially I then might not want to start a longer POI so I don't have to abandon it, but then if it turns out that boss takes another 25 mins to actually spawn, then I definitely could have done it in that time

[restive kernel]

first time i see someone talking about amanita pit as "missed out"

its usually "skipped"

including myself

[tender shale]

new issues I encountered with experiment 71

• boss animations persist after the fight ends #bug-discussion message

• boss can kb players off the cliff edge with the roar and then immediately aggro onto them and fall off the cliff chasing them and cannot get back up

[atomic geyser]

That's a network issue and not something specific to the boss I believe

[tender shale]

also a minor complaint, podzol and mangrove rooted mud textures blend in somewhat on the vanilla texture pack for me, it'd be nice if the podzol was replaced with concrete powder or dirt path

[grave pasture]

the downhill battle in question

[tender shale]

comparison image of rooted mud on its own vs adjacent to podzol and concrete powder

[bold kraken]

fwiw I was banished from a fight after I died, I believe from Steelwing after getting exploded on the first divebomb. So it doesn't seem too far-fetched to me that banishment could retain aggro for a bit.

[atomic geyser]

My guess is that's a different bug

possibly list of players in the fight is not being updated soon enough

[charred tinsel]

That one I don’t think it rechecks player list pretty easy fix

[shut prawn]

can we make the number of rucks you get from unspoiled loot increase (or decrease spoiled loot to 1 ruck)
this sounds like "alright you get 3 mats from a 6pt mr run but because you get a mr frag on your daily run, you only get 2 mats" situation

[sharp briar]

you can trade the unique mat for 2 rucks i believe

[shut prawn]

yes

but that's not the poi9nt

[sharp briar]

at least someone in chat says that every time someone says that

we aren't decreasing the mats you get though then?

you can either unspoil and get a unique worth 2 and a ruck, or just 2 rucks

[shut prawn]

why would you intentionally spoil yourself

[sharp briar]

idk, i don't know what the argument is you're making with the MR datapoint

[shut prawn]

the point is "increase the # of rucks you get from an unspoiled chest to match the # with the spoiled

[sharp briar]

that makes it sound like "well if you do daily, you get less of this mat" but that's not the case here, the mat you get instead is a direct tranlation

[shut prawn]

on paper you get "3" rucks from unspoiled and 2 from spoiled

but that's not what you are actually getting

[oblique shuttle]

idk i read the system as "2 rucks on spoil, and 3 rucks if you dont spoil" (plus the chance to use the rewards for more than what rucks do)

[shut prawn]

you're getting 1 mat and 1 ruck and 2 rucks from spoiled which doesn't make sense

why would you get less ruck just because you got a mat

[oblique shuttle]

because you can trade the mat for 2 ruck

[sharp briar]

the mat is 2 rucks at the trader

[shut prawn]

so?

[oblique shuttle]

so you essentially get 3 ruck

[sharp briar]

you are either getting 3 or 2

[oblique shuttle]

and some more possible usages

[shut prawn]

"essentially" yes but everything in the shop costs a mat

[oblique shuttle]

yeah but not mw and infusion and epic

[smoky condor]

?????

[sharp briar]

i don't get it

[shut prawn]

excuse me what

[oblique shuttle]

so you can choose to buy items or convert to ruck if youd rather have those

[shut prawn]

why is mw not requiring the mats

[sharp briar]

if you need more rucks, you can make unique into 2 rucks, and then have 3 rucks

if you need uniques, you get a unique

[oblique shuttle]

i thought mw only needs rucks

idk might be misinformation this is just what i read

[astral violet]

Ok i get it bc ur inclined to not trade the unique mat for the rucks

[sharp briar]

that's what people have been saying

it's rucks and har

[shut prawn]

at that point just make the "unspoiled" the condition to make purchase, and give unspoiled loot 3 rucks straight up

ditch the entire "you need the mat to buy the item" bs

[sharp briar]

because the mat is meant to make you have to win unspoiled?

and win that boss specifically?

[oblique shuttle]

isnt that like way easier to do
also that way items feel more special and fit to the boss

[sharp briar]

expertise to win unspoiled rewarded with access to that loot?

[shut prawn]

yeah but the mat is only used to purchase the item and not directly used in mw infusion or the epic right?

[sharp briar]

item and charm i think

[astral violet]

Pots too

[sharp briar]

ah, there's the endless sink

[oblique shuttle]

potions as mat sinks

[shut prawn]

yeah so why not instead of making the items require mats, what if you just said "if you want to buy/use the item, you need to first win without spoiled" just like the epic

[oblique shuttle]

both work but theres no harm in doing either. also having unique mats for each boss is really cool

[shut prawn]

and fuck the whole "mats" system

[oblique shuttle]

why

[sharp briar]

why not have a unique mats system that's in place?

[oblique shuttle]

anyone doing hunts likely has boh anyways it doesnt really matter imo. and if you dont like them just buy rucks

[sharp briar]

i mean, it's not just "everything melts down to 1 thing to spend on everything", but it adds a unique flair to it

[vagrant jackal]

i think his whole point is the unique mats have zero use except being turned to ruck after you buy the base item

when it could be used for upgrading its masterwork or just not exist at all

[shut prawn]

that and the loot is less rewarding on paper

at a glance

[vagrant jackal]

less rewarding kinda isnt true once you know they have zero use therefore is automatically converted to 2 ruck

[sharp briar]

except we all know at this point they are 2 rucks?

[shut prawn]

1 mat + 1 ruck is the same # of items as 2 rucks
and before you say "but mat can be converted to 2 rucks", this is a psycologial thing

[oblique shuttle]

even if its the same number of items, one is rarer

[astral violet]

Its true who on their right mind would turn a mat to two rucks

[vagrant jackal]

dawg..

[shut prawn]

it's not about the actual value of the items, it's the looks

[astral violet]

I like hoarding ...

[sharp briar]

if i gave you 32 ar and a har, is the ar more valuable?

[cloud bluff]

i think even though it technically can be more rucks, it's unintuitive to give more rucks for spoiled than unspoiled

[sharp briar]

idk, i don't get the logic

[shut prawn]

not on paper, but getting 10 stacks of ar looks more appealing than a pile of 12 har

[cloud bluff]

oops fixed typo

[vagrant jackal]

its the same thing cro

[shut prawn]

it's not about the actual value, it's the visuals that looks more appealing

[cloud bluff]

...can you trade 2 rucks for a mat? no

[oblique shuttle]

on on side you have 1 generic mat and another generic mat, on on the other side you have 1 generic mat and one special mat

like yeah it isnt a huge difference but any day of the week id take the special mat over the generic one

[shut prawn]

chroma im throwing you out the window

this is not about whether you can convert rucks to mats

[oblique shuttle]

chroma just pointed out the inconsistency in zigs analogy methinks

[cloud bluff]

dude im agreeing with you can you chill the fuck out

[shut prawn]

it's not the actual prices we're discussing, we're looking at the visual appealingness

[astral violet]

Its true one ruck is less than two rucks

[vagrant jackal]

why do you care about visual appealingness

[shut prawn]

and this is probly why devs use the filler block method on 100% of the loot

[vagrant jackal]

if you know its worth more anyways

[shut prawn]

and give out like 5-7 t3/t5 items

[bold kraken]

I mean that's not what you started out saying, so maybe chill a little.

[shut prawn]

i did ????

[cloud bluff]

it's also that nobody will want to turn a boss mat into 2 rucks because that's a dumb trade, so you just end up with less rucks even though you could have more

[shut prawn]

my whole point was "1 mat + 1 rucks looks similarly valued to 2 rucks at a glance so add 1 ruck to the unspoiled reward"

[cloud bluff]

like how nobody is going to turn a pigment into strands

[rustic charm]

wont they like stand out and look cool when they are textured

[shut prawn]

not when 90% of the other items are textured

unless you make the texture go out of the box

like the items

[astral violet]

Realest sh ever

[rustic charm]

but the filler loot is not textured

[shut prawn]

poiint still stands

i mean if you want the unspoiled loot to look more rewarding than spoiled then rucks better look like a boring stupid rock

[oblique shuttle]

i think its just a rather unintuitive one but consider how few usages the boss mats have i think its really just "2 rucks but you get the choice to buy some special stuff"

[vagrant jackal]

i think we should talk about how they have no real use after buying the base item and then maybe you will find the unspoiled loot chest more interesting

so why do they have no real use after the first mat for the base item!

[rustic charm]

i have some ideas

[shut prawn]

they do have a use, pots

at least the core elemental one is ok

[vagrant jackal]

feel like it can be used for MW level (one level) or something else like the shield delve infusion

but it is probably hard to think of 6 new delve infusions.

[cloud bluff]

the pots seem like they have potential but some of them aren't great

even though they're 20 minutes

[cloud bluff]

they can't be used for masterwork because of how the mw system works

it looks at item location not the item itself

[shut prawn]

i dont need more uses fo the items, all i want at this instance is listen to qwan's idea

[cloud bluff]

so unless you want every hunt rare using core elemental mat or w/e

one of every mat for mw7?

[bold kraken]

I feel like 'you get better rewards from doing the boss better' is pretty intuitive. If anything bumping up the spoiled rewards to match unspoiled rewards would kill the reason to care about spoiling mechanics at all after your first unspoiled win.

[vagrant dagger]

thoughts on the items

like.not the epic

[vagrant jackal]

the code cannot be that spaghetti that you cant make specific items cost specific mats.... right

[shut prawn]

also "drastically reduced" is unmatching for the actual rewards

[cloud bluff]

i mean they could hardcode them but i think that's excessive

at least for the moment

[vagrant dagger]

imo the items aren't really good maybe many people think that idk

[pine orbit]

overall pretty cracked

[sharp briar]

masterwork works by location

all hunts items share a location

[vagrant dagger]

the axe seems cool

for like idk

[vagrant jackal]

look in gameplay discussions you cannot die in that build made of new items

[sharp briar]

wolfswood/pelias/sp/<insert content>

[vagrant jackal]

unfortunate

[shut prawn]

im fine with the item system, and im not gonna 🗣️ at devs to rework the whole system of the boss because that's not gonna happen

[pine orbit]

axe is cool, chestplate is super nice the magic boots / legs are fun

[vagrant dagger]

the offhand is weird

[vagrant jackal]

surely its make a 7th mat only purchasable 1:1 with unique boss mat and use that no? 😁

[pine orbit]

the offhand/hawk boots are kinda mid but other then that everything seems amazing

[cloud bluff]

in theory there could be 6+ different locations that all visually look the same but have different internal IDs but i think that would be generally considered a Bad Idea for several other systems

[shut prawn]

but like i would like to request that the unique mats look exponentially more visually appealing than the ruck

[cloud bluff]

such as market plugin

[sharp briar]

yea, multiple fake locations falls apart in other uses of locations

[vagrant dagger]

maybe I need to play other classes

[versed lantern]

The monkeys paw furls, spoiled chests reward you with 1 ruck instead of 2 to make the unspoiled chests appear better

[shut prawn]

o hey another rp artist

wait this is build contributer ive been scammed

[tender shale]

I regret bothering to read this argument

So many msgs all boiled down to “i want more loot”

Anyway, what causes exp71 to eventually stop spawning minions

Is there some kind of a cap on minions

[plush forge]

Idk I’ve gotten like 20 mats now and while it’s cool the first time after that the mats are useless. I think it’s fine how it is because it’s essentially the same as how hapon wanted it with 3 unspoiled, 2 spoiled, but currently adds some flavor with the mat for each item/boss

[valid merlin]

well.\

there are buff potions that are quite good.

[plush forge]

So converting the boss specific mats to ruck will become normal and thus the system works as is intended

[coral tusk]

We found a bug where killed worms weren’t removed from tracking

[plush forge]

We’ll see how prices work out to be fair

If the price never drops past 1-2 har per ruck then the pots will never be worth

But I can see them dropping down to 12-18ar

Which will make it worth

[strange briar]

Ruck prices will drop drastically

[valid merlin]

they will drop down eventually

dont worry

[coral tusk]

Tbf it would an absolute flavor win if masterwork used boss mats we should totally do it

[valid merlin]

this isnt hexfall

the mats are not rate limited

🤯

[plush forge]

I think that’s something long term and I have a feeling they will drop sufficiently

[valid merlin]

i think they could be like

[plush forge]

Eh

[valid merlin]

30 ish ar each maybe after a while

they are used as a mat for an infusion and an epic so

[plush forge]

So are godspore mats

But no infusion

Or pdia trade

[valid merlin]

how much as gs mats though

it took them like a year to go down to what, 20 ar?

30?

whatever they are im not sure

also, sturdy is like, really good for mainhand shields

[strange briar]

I'm kind if a broken record player at this point but I think the rares are just too cheap

[valid merlin]

well i do not think they should be expensive

theyre rares

tbf you do get them at mw3 so i guess they could have made them cost a bit more?

[tender shale]

So the theory a bunch of ppl had was true

[tender shale]

It is not dropping under 20 ar anytime within the next few years

[strange briar]

MW4 costs more than the whole MW 3 item

[plush forge]

Why not

[tender shale]

Because 8 ruck is a pdia

[plush forge]

Ohh

True

[tender shale]

so dropping below 1/8 of a pdia isnt happening

[plush forge]

So max will be 16ar

[valid merlin]

also

ar is not worth tha tmuch

so

i do not really see it dropping down that far but who knows, really

[tender shale]

At some point the price will stabilize because it’s not worth the effort of going to do the hunt for a bunch of ppl

At which point the price will probably balance around how many ppl do it for fun vs ppl buying the mats

[valid merlin]

why is this a discussion even

what we say will not affect the price of rucks nor the quality of hunts

[valid merlin]

but in a perfect world i think it would be ideal to have mw4 cost another boss mat as well

and mw3 can take a few more rucks and har i guess(?)

[strange briar]

The items come as mw3

[valid merlin]

as in

the purchase price mb

[plush forge]

I think they should come as mw2

And 4 costs another mat

But 3 costs ruck

[strange briar]

Actually I'd probably just make this a whole separate feedback post regarding base MW in later game content ( recent examples being hexfall and hunts )

[tender shale]

given how early hunts are accessible, it is kinda confusing they're mw3

[cloud bluff]

i brought this up before the hunts themselves launched and was told it's mw3 difficulty and not really feasible to do at a point where other mw3s are infeasible

but now that i've played them i think they aren't really mw3 diff

[versed lantern]

Lock em behind blue completion and maybe make the items start MW2?

[cloud bluff]

progression lock is unlikely i think

and also not super sensible in terms of lore reasons?

but i think mw2 base is fine

[tender shale]

an earlier tier player can just build more tanky, I guess most cloaked items are starpoint but razorleaf breeches and anti-acid are mog and brown respectively

[winged brook]

i think it could be done by leeching in tiered gear

exp 71 core uamiel are all ez that way

same with hawk currently and i think the other two are slightly harder

[shut prawn]

the bear is a challenge of multi-tasker check, not a gear check

[shrewd roost]

is steel wing hawk meant to not have player scaling dr unlike other bosses?

[lyric basin]

known bug

hopefully fixed soon

[oblique pulsar]

I feel like it should be bigger. Look at its nest for size comparison. Also when it player scales it will be really annoying to hit as it is so small.

[slender saddle]

the clear answer is that this is a child and the parents should be size 50 versions with 1 shot damage

[slim bane]

Just did another 71

the dr seems fine if I clearing worms/dodge weakness ability

the fight was like 7 or 8 ppl

[winged brook]

it seems fine in 7-8 but it doesnt get lower in solo or less players

[tender shale]

How long the fight is depends on your luck

If your guild or party has dps players and exp71 doesn’t spam attacks that spawn worms then you can blow it up before the DR explodes

[winged brook]

Except solo still deals 1/10th damage when no worms and no weakness

So like lol

[tender shale]

No worms as in you killed them or no worms as in none have ever spawned

[winged brook]

Killed them and broke their spawners

[tender shale]

That doesnt matter

I specified “spawn”

Not “alive”

[winged brook]

I don’t understand

[velvet nimbus]

the dr from worms is bugged and doesnt go back down after they die

i think

[shrewd roost]

Is it possible to make the impenetrable arena adventure mode? I'm bringing this up because:

1. Players are pillaring to cheese the crystal attack and while still damaging the boss
2. Some players are getting stuck against the pillars/builds made by others and are severely punished by high damage attacks for it (especially the melee players trying to get some hits in to contribute and then getting trapped from behind)

[plush forge]

to be fair, all of them should be adventure mode areas

[patent granite]

hard disagree

I just said this in sug discussions but placing blocks is helpful in every fight except uamiel and aloc acoc

[plush forge]

it's pretty braindead you can just build up a few blocks and are invincible in all of the hunts

[patent granite]

placing blocks provides cheap counterplay to a lot of abilities (especially banishes) that make the fights more accessible to more people

[plush forge]

what banishes

[shrewd roost]

the only reason why I would justify placing blocks in Impenetrable is to block off a boomline, but otherwise players placing blocks in that fight is just unhealthy

[plush forge]

none of the banishes need block placing

[ebon osprey]

Core elemental

[meager ridge]

core elemental and steel wing hawk

if u have no other mobility

[ebon osprey]

The Dev really said intend way is placr block

[plush forge]

people build but if they waited 2 seconds then the floating thing would kick in

people dont wait long enough

They are just impatient

[ebon osprey]

Which is accessible for everyone

[meager ridge]

the floating thing is only when you are near enough (?

[ebon osprey]

Sadly that never work for me

[plush forge]

no

[ebon osprey]

And it's not the intent way also

[patent granite]

floating is only when you’re high enough

[meager ridge]

also the crystal attack can climb up blocks to a certain extent

[ebon osprey]

What chilly said is right

[plush forge]

I mean if you guys think standing still a few blocks up is good design i cba to argue against it

[patent granite]

core elemental, hawk, and impenetrable banishes all have placing blocks as valid counter play

[harsh isle]

yes actually, Im fairly sure it has a range check

[plush forge]

then they gotta make it larger

[ebon osprey]

I also ask float part is only when near boss so u don't get push by boss hitbox

the point is u find a way to get up

[plush forge]

.

[meager ridge]

its not standing still?

you cant attack during the banishes anyway

[patent granite]

I would rather people be able to place blocks in impenetrable than be punished for being a melee player trying to actually do damage when it happens to have teleported to an open area early in the fight

similarly for hawk, giving people the option to react with something other than the four items with recoil instead of just camping the ledges in the arena waiting for banish is good design

experiment needs to not be adventure mode for fight to function

and core elemental should probably get levitation range boosted, but also a non recoil/movement ability option to get up there is good

[ebon osprey]

The good thing about current banish mechanic is they all ask basic thing that player can get without problem

[patent granite]

exactly, blocks are cheap and accessible

also adventure mode would technically break like recoil and whatever but that’s something that can be dealt with if it was applied, which I don’t think it should be during fights

[ebon osprey]

Whether u like the design is another topic, if u want to come up with something other u think interested is important that it is accessible to most normal player

:Why can't I thunder step?!

:u are in adventure area

: what??

[patent granite]

how many fights in the game are even adventure mode areas

[shrewd roost]

Other than blocking off the boomline, I still don’t understand how using blocks during Impenetrable is good for gameplay

[ebon osprey]

Uhh an unexpected lesson boss fight, all the remain boss fight

[patent granite]

blocking off the boom line is the entire reason I’m in favor of it

I could care less about ye olde astral technique of going up a block, but also, it’s a survival mode server, so place/mine blocks if that’s helpful

[harsh isle]

Doesnt the bosses astral crystals change y level to the level of the floor?

so isnt even cheesable with blocks

[patent granite]

yeah they like kinda go up

some of the other attacks are just floor level though I think

[harsh isle]

might be, only played the fight the full way through once

[shrewd roost]

I haven’t actually tested it myself since I’m trying to dps normally, but several people in my shard were doing it so I figured it was doing something

like one edge of the block might be safe on a pillar since the raised crystal only attacks one side or something idk

[patent granite]

I want to get another hawk fight in and a fixed polar bear fight in and then I’ll probably post my full feedback opinions on all the bosses

[thorn field]

I've said this in other places, but I feel like removing building blocks would feel forced to me, at least during the boss fight itself. but I definitely think some type of prevention is needed during the boss wait time

Reason being, imagine you fall down in Impen - how are you going to get back up if you don't have riptide or jump boost/skills?

[harsh isle]

The rotating crystal storm can at least jump up one block but idk about the other attacks or pillaring up higher but I would guess it still hits you

[harsh isle]

it is also probably possible that the people blocking up are doing it out of habit due to nearly all other attacks of that sort are dodgable by building up, but as I said im not sure

[shrewd roost]

this isn't the worst, but here's an example of some melee congestion from the most recent fight

[grave jetty]

😭

[shrewd roost]

yeah it doesn't seem to go up 2 blocks or is at least inconsistent since 0xzy was able to not get hit from the whole wave at this height

[coral tusk]

It can step up or down one block differences

[shrewd roost]

That's a fair scenario. What about having blocks decay after a bit (10 seconds?) like in hycenea so players can still use blocks to get out of trouble/block boomline but not have lingering structures restricting player movement for the rest of the fight?

[atomic geyser]

That sounds like it could be solid

[tender shale]

So like in vesp

[atomic geyser]

yeah

I'm not sure how long would be fair though

[tender shale]

a few seconds longer than it takes for core elemental to do its banish seems like a good starting point

So you can estimate roughly when its gonna do it soon and pillar up a few seconds early + room to try again if u fuck up and miss

[patent granite]

1.5x however long impenetrable banish is for that fight

I would call so much bullshit if I built a wall for boomline and it decayed in front of me

[cloud bluff]

i think impenetrable should have glowing sometimes

like there were a couple times nobody knew where it went

[tender shale]

This was asked and the answer is no

Apparently that is in fact the whole point of it being able to teleport, you’re supposed to get blindsided by it, this is a feature not a flaw

[versed lantern]

I could see it gaining glowing if it hasn't taken damage for like 5-10 seconds after teleporting, as if players literally can't find it, but the astral attack coming from it should be easy enough imo

[atomic geyser]

The solution isn't to just give it glowing and trivialize the point of finding it

a better solution would be to further limit the locations it can teleport to

I think to check a location you should gather the coordinates of all nearby solid blocks that are exposed to air and feed them into a plane fitting formula and then get the normal vector of the plane and if that vector dotted with 0 1 0 is too small then the location is invalid

[merry forge]

i thought the recoil disable was specifically safe zones, not adventure mode

[patent granite]

that’d probably work to avoid it landing on the weird edges of some of the cliffs around the arena, little curious how the math works out when it lands like inside of the buildings around if you let it float around for too long

[tender shale]

rooster catch and sirius arena wouldnt work if this wasnt true, as examples

[charred tinsel]

For anyone curious the hunts changes should fall closer to the middle of the ranger instead of having a high probability of falling to the two extremes

[rugged steppe]

(mist is referring to the spawn time distribution)

[ebon osprey]

So is more close to 2hr now instead 1.5 or 2.5hr

[fair arch]

what’s the actual range

1.75-2.25?

[plush forge]

1.5-2.5

But they made it fall closer to the 2 hour mark

[fair arch]

oh so it’s like a different distribution same range kinda deal

[oblique pulsar]

Are there any plans to prevent being iframed during core elemental banish?

[tardy fog]

can we change aloc acoc arena from ice to snow grass or snow block instead

ice is super annoying

especially with its fast paced attack

[grave pasture]

that might be the gimmick

[tardy fog]

isnt the gimmik frostbite smh

[grave pasture]

hundreds must ice level

[slim bane]

will it good to add suffocate detection

that tp player like 5 blocks up

I just saw an random die by it

and can't save them , I saw the life is slowly decaying
the flesh are squeezing , the player is dying

also I think it won't harm much to add like some melee fragile to hawk boss

so it's balance on more classes

[rugged steppe]

I could not figure out how this could happen so idk

[oblique pulsar]

if in the same tick (half a second) someone hits it and does more dmg ,your hit will not register on the boss and you will be banished

that is very likely if you arent a melee class in that part of the fight

[thorny vessel]

pig god 🔥

[fair arch]

would it be feasible to make the Hunts bosses target people who, by some metric, are "undercontributing"
i.e. take some sort of score which is (damage dealt + healing done * 3 + [misc. support abils]) * 20/(masterwork stars on armor and offhand + 20)
where [misc. support abils] accounts for various support things like number of players hit by Celestial Blessing * uptime in seconds + number of players in Phlegmatic Resolve Ally * second + seconds of cooldown reduced by Whirlwind Totem

maybe the misc support abils is infeasible

but the point is to make bosses target whoever isn't contributing in some way be it damage, clear, healing, or even the unique boss mech

(exp71 would have Mud Dug)

[atomic geyser]

the only reason I'm not a fan of adding contribution metrics like these are because world bosses are essentially exactly the same, but I don't hear complaints about lack of contribution in those

so I think most of this comes down to the recentness of the release

[fair arch]

having hung around the discord a bunch i do hear a lot about complaints about lack of contribution to those, but i think we mostly just say "it's too old to fix"

@patent anchor has opinions on it i think

but particularly for Hunts bosses, most (?) of them have Spoil On Hit mechanics

[versed lantern]

I feel like the scaling between 1-10 players in hunts and world boss player scaling is more drastic. If there's 1 or 2 people leeching it can feel wayy slower

[fair arch]

so you're doubly incentivised to not bother hitting the boss, since you could spoil your loot by doing so

[versed lantern]

But I do kinda agree Eliux

[atomic geyser]

I've heard a few complaints but they are significantly less frequent and also I find they don't have much merit

I'm not fully decided yet

Mostly because I think adding contribution metrics could be a source of complaints themselves because they need to be tuned to specific values

[winged brook]

It sucks to contribute and die and see someone who was in steadwind while you did 90% of the damage get an unspoiled win while you get nothing.

[atomic geyser]

and if you are contributing but the metric doesn't think you're doing enough you get fucked at the end

which debatably feels worse

[fair arch]

it wouldn't affect your rewards at all

i'm talkin about boss targetting

[atomic geyser]

I'm speaking in a general sense

not specifically about your thing

[fair arch]

okay

[versed lantern]

Am I just skill issuing or does the white circle explosion attack from hawk deal an absurd amount of magic damage? My sets aren't particularly tanky in the magic department but I'm getting 1 tapped from it (and I imagine everyone else is surviving and then healing back up) with ~130 magic ehp. Do I just need to react better or what

[ebon osprey]

204 when temp 2 up, drop my hp from 20 to 12 iirc

so i think around 80?

[versed lantern]

In the one that just happened I was on the ring-1 gang so it was a bit bugged and likely scaled to way beyond the normal limit so there's a chance I was hit by 2 at once or the damage was even higher, but I was also 1 tapped by it the other day too, but idr if there was overlap then or not

Does it do more damage if you're in the air or something?

[tender shale]

Doesnt this just result in it being optimal to go full tank and then never hit the boss if u want it to target u for tanking

At which point u might as well just make it properly taunt instead imo

[tender shale]

It’s a fairly frequent complaint for sirius, no?

In other world bosses its not a particularly big issue taking longer but for sirius having more purple stars and tankier crowned blight without the ppl causing it contributing can wipe the whole group

[shrewd roost]

my hunter set has 196 magic EHP and I think it's dealing around 80% of my max health as damage, though I've only been hit by it once so I could be wrong

[shrewd roost]

actually, if it's an explosion attack it might be blast damage instead, which I only had 94 blast EHP on that set

[versed lantern]

Death message says magic which is where I'm getting it from

Which yeah my blast EHP isn't too hot either

I'll try out more blast prot next time there's a hawk spawn

[charred tinsel]

Projectile

Assuming it’s feather storm

[versed lantern]

Nah it's stationary that it shoots out rings on the ground, then they explode after like 2 seconds

If it was projectile it would be doing 200 damage which does not sound right at all lmao

[charred tinsel]

That’s blast

95 damage

[versed lantern]

Alright I'll try more blast prot next time, my scout build uses celestial siege as normally you can't explode if you just shoot them, but doesn't exactly work here so I'll go back to Lamellic

[charred tinsel]

I would still recommend shooting them

[versed lantern]

That would do it

Is it a bug the death message says "died to magic", must be a very explosive potion

[shrewd roost]

Oh wow, good thing I drank a wolfswood fury for that fight

[charred tinsel]

Yeah

[plush forge]

What is actually the hawk’s spoil

Standing still and getting hit by which attack

[rugged steppe]

any

[plush forge]

Gotchu

[restive kernel]

it is a little weird i can fully afk through the impenetrable and get an unspoiled win tbh

i used to think it was fine now i think that's not a good sign

it might want some sorta buff towards the people who are leeching it

right now its just the slashes

[tender shale]

U can do this with most bosses post banish, no?

I believe having placed blocks decay is being looked into as well for anti grief

which would also semi help with ppl just walling themself in and going afk at the start of Imp i guess

[merry forge]

imagine if whoever was keeping the experiment 71 arena from being 100% mud and killing everyone had permanent boss aggro because they weren't "contributing"

[marsh canyon]

we really need something to make matching up with friends easier

even if it would be the boss having a guaranteed spawn in every ring that has people waiting

since appareantly thats not a thing

[tender shale]

Does it not match friends at all?

Seems like that’d be the logical next step after guild members

I guess that’d be a problem if friends were in different guilds with lots of ppl on

[grave pasture]

probably just not implemented

[lyric basin]

in an ideal world: how would it deal with chains of friends?

[tender shale]

That’s true

Guess we wait for someone to get fed up enough to join TM and write a party system and then retire

[lyric basin]

also kind of interesting to think about would be a map of all the friends

[restive kernel]

idk i never tried

it just blew my mind how i was late to the boss and still came back to an unspoiled cache

like i wasnt at my pc at all

and won with the "perfect score"

this is not normal

[tender shale]

Most of the spoils are dependent on not acting

Its kind of expected that if u dont hit u dont spoil

Spoil prevention need to be active actions if they want to not be afkable

For imp in specific if u afk in a corner the boss cant banish u either

Cola is prob the best designed boss in this regard

[marble peak]

hawk spoiling is also pretty good

hawk and aloc acoc are pretty good

[tender shale]

Hawk needs more atks imo

[marble peak]

though hawk is bit too easy and aloc acoc is a bit hard id say

yeah

[tender shale]

It has a good baseline

Just needs a bit more

I like the roosting move someone suggested

Sits down in nest, DR buff, spawns minions, does aoe on takeoff

[astral violet]

Make it lay eggs that spawns mini hawks

Super little birds to the rescue

[tender shale]

That’s what this is

Idr who made it

[thorn field]

deen would probably be at the center

[tender shale]

If hunts had friend matchmaking everyone would end up in the same shard if deen was online

[winged brook]

this is bad because?

[restive kernel]

Because the shard won't survive that

Nor will half the people's pcs

[charred tinsel]

I dont think friend matching will ever happen. Guilds is a mcuh easier thing to do as it can just check your lp group but friends requires a lot more depth of search to calculate the optimal grouping of guilds and friends.

[winged brook]

What if friend matching only happens to guildless/solo guild members?

so like, if there are no other FISH online, find a guild with the most friends for that user

if they exist, lump them with that guild

or if you have no guild but 3 friends in LXT and 1 in Maid, you go to LXT since there are more friends there

[shrewd roost]

I was wondering the same thing about guilds if people wanted guild alliances to be grouped together. If say 15 guilds are connected with each other directly or indirectly in a network of alliances, the shard sorting would still be pretty random.

[atomic geyser]

stable matching strikes again

[shrewd roost]

It would be fine if each guild only made an alliance with one other guild so then a network wouldn’t exist, but that might also upset some people that they can’t have more than one allied guild

[atomic geyser]

i think what you would have to do is have each guild have a priority of alliances

or each time assign a random priority

and then run a stable matcher on that

functional but dubious

[lyric basin]

anything but a party system

[charred tinsel]

It still would be pretty computationally intensive to find a good match and add a lot of complexity to it. A party system would be a much better implementation that probably provides the same result assuming its set up correctly.

[tender shale]

doing a bunch of random-ass complicated shit when a simpler and common solution that most people are used to in other games and is often asked for exists sounds super questionable

[merry forge]

being in minecraft makes many things that should be in the latter category actually be in the former category

side note why is pink tess unusable in the core elemental arena

[thorn field]

i think this would just be the solution

ideally

and then probably make it so if you're in a party you won't get sorted with guild members, just to lessen the complexity a bit

[marsh canyon]

i feel like a way easier solution would just be spawning the hunt on every single shard so groups of friends can spread instead of being spread by a randomizer

[grave jetty]

[patent granite]

players are really, really, really bad at load balancing on their own and cannot really be trusted

[timid lantern]

I would like to mention that 4/6 of the current spoil mechanics are "don't hit when X"

• core: don't hit when unstable
• exp 71: don't hit when parasite
• impenetrable: don't hit when closed
• uamiel: don't hit when shield
  and this mech does not count continuous damage sources like shaman totems and dots

the problem with this besides the slight repetitiveness is that I fear in the near future people will start playing shaman and then basically "cheese" the spoil mechanic by using these attacks that does not spoil the loot

[tender shale]

Or fox, or meteor slam, or any other indirect dmg/dot

[sharp briar]

there's definitely more than shaman that can be a problem there, but in general if the totems are of notable concern there's way to detect the entity spawn event of the totem/punish them if it's spawned within range of the boss

[tender shale]

The “don’t hit” mechanic also kinda punishes ppl actually fighting while rewarding leeching

Like, even compared to the normal effort to reward ratio of leeching in world bosses, this kinda takes it up half a level where it’s optimal to not hit the boss to maximize chance u get best loot

[timid lantern]

definitely
I feel much comfortable in poise shaman and just stand there the whole fight instead of playing stuff like harb, easier to die, easier to spoil

[tender shale]

I think it’d be more engaging if spoil mechanics were similar to banish in that it’s an active action to prevent

As an example of one way it could be spun

“Core Elemental attempts to undergo Core Expansion when feeling threatened as a defense mechanism but this causes the core to undergo changes, spoiling the loot”

“Give it a good percussive shock with a melee hit to interrupt the core elemental and prevent spoiling”

(Basically completely invert it)

if u wanna be extra devious u can keep the old instability behavior too

[tender shale]

would it be a big ask to lower the ruck to pdia trade to 6 so u get 0.5 pdia per unspoiled hunt

[plush forge]

The game is saved 🔥

[marble peak]

i actually like 71 spoil since its not random and occurs when u stand in mud for too long

so u can actually play around it

core, uamiel and Impenetrable are questionable though

uamiel encourages veilripper dps though 🔥

[fair arch]

core spoil is OK imo because of the massive telegraph

Impenetrable spoil does Not have a nice telegraph and can easily fuck over Illuminate

[marble peak]

and projectiles

i have a clip of shulk closing just before stormblessed hits it

from someone else ofc

[meager ridge]

why does the impenetrable not have a sound cue for its banish

[marble peak]

litterally why i got banished that one time

im so used to attacks having sound cues

much easier than noticing a bossbar

[tender shale]

the telegraph is on the boss bar

[marble peak]

its not a nice telegraph

though

[fair arch]

isn’t the “closing” the same length as the vanilla shulker close

[tender shale]

it's slightly longer

[fair arch]

which is less time than an Illu takes to reach max tange

[tender shale]

it has a grace period but i have no idea how long that is

[fair arch]

i.e. firing illu at it acrosss the room is never safe because of how it might close after you fire

[tender shale]

for illu i always fire point blank yeah

[smoky condor]

I'm enjoying hunts a lot and i like the current rewards, expecially the infusion, but i feel like the long term rewards for them are a bit too specific in terms of builds that can access them, the shield is really cool but it can be used by probably only 2/max 4 specs in the game out of them all, and while normally that would be alright for an epic if it was from a dungeon or something, this is a feature meant to be ran so many times in the long term by everyone it seems, and the rewards don't seem to match the kind of content it seems to be, SKR is very similar but at least that content has lootchests that can give you random currencies from all around the region, making the content rewarding to engage with even if you do not need any of the gear rewards, unlike hunts.

If something extra was added such as cosmetics or anything else it would help the content's future health massively imo

[lyric basin]

I have a silly vanity idea that may help slightly with that but won’t solve it fully

will setup for next week

[winged brook]

The hawk’s collecting feathers phase is too short

Melee still can’t do anything

You gotta camp the nest for 4 crits/hr

[wintry spire]

dps sets strike again

the diff between full dps and non dps is massive and the 4 crits for a dps set are okay for me personally

[versed lantern]

I personally think the reward longevity is fine, if anything they're better compared to something like Godspore which can reward SKR scrolls, but there's not even any AR in the chests or a P.Diamond sink for the materials, and people still do that boss every now and then.

[winged brook]

People only do it for SKR chances

[charred tinsel]

I got like 5-6 strikes in on ss durring nesting

[timid lantern]

There’s still potions that you can exchange for hunt mats I suppose

[slim bane]

can we give hawk a bit melee fragile

[wintry spire]

also if you play well you get a lot of dps moments

[oblique pulsar]

the pdia trade is never worth doing

[wintry spire]

the feathers on the ground can be collected and after some amt it goes to the ground

[oblique pulsar]

unless it is cz

[smoky condor]

Godspore is a secluded feature that you have to look for to partecipate, i don't think it's meant to be farmed endlessly like hunts, that's the big difference

The only other feature in the game like hunts is skr probably

Maybe worldbosses but even those you have to spawn and have pretty good long term rewards usually with the infusions and all

[slim bane]

hunt infusion use same slot with delve infusion feels sad

[smoky condor]

I think that is pretty fair

[versed lantern]

And idk if hunts are intended to be farmed endlessly either, hence the non-player spawn system. You just go to it if you feel like it and get rewarded with some money, a chance for an SKR scroll, and potentially some decent duration potions/pdiamonds. Now I'm not saying having some huge expensive cosmetic set for people to sink materials into is a bad thing, but I don't think it's unrewarding to run personally

[lyric basin]

those potions are like

a 3rd of the solution I think

[ebon osprey]

custom arrow use boss unique drop..

[lyric basin]

custom arrows are a godless sin but maybe

[versed lantern]

I know arrows are cringe and hard to make, but having the boss chests drop vanilla arrows is quite boring

[ebon osprey]

We should totally has epic that's a arrow with infinite enchant...

[lyric basin]

skr frags are maybe another 3rd of the solution

[lyric basin]

wouldn't this just invalidate every infinity bow

[wintry spire]

another epic

[thorn field]

that would also conflict with quiver

[lyric basin]

the arrow economy rbt.. think about the arrow economy :P

[ebon osprey]

I stop play hunter for a bit becausr my arrow go down by 10k after month of being hunter

[lyric basin]

epic and infusion are maybe 15%

dubious charging uv plushies are another 10

[manic hemlock]

just buy arrows with soul thread lol

[lyric basin]

ngl dude I am eternally between 200 and 600 arrows

[versed lantern]

How many arrowbucks to get custom arrows in hunt loot chest pool

[oblique pulsar]

the hunts dropping scrolls/frags are a huge reason to do them

[ebon osprey]

And that's all, don't mind me, still consider custom arrow as option so loot is more interesting!

[lyric basin]

I mean I can make them. they'd also be purchasable with bos mats. but like sin against mankind

eliux might kill me

[ebon osprey]

I just don't like my beautiful scout class have extra sink, but I should sleep to maybe come up with better thing later

[lyric basin]

scout gets to engage mobs from a safe distance

[versed lantern]

Arrows are definitely more cringe than potions on the heirarchy

[lyric basin]

Infusion / Epic (15%)
Masterworking (fake)
Items (essentially fake)
SKR frags / scroll (30%)
Pdia (4%)
Potions (33%)

• Arrows (8%) (eliux kills me, so maybe not)
  alt of arrows is some kind of finisher set but that takes dev budget
• player titles?
• Vanity /flex Plushies (4%)
• Training Dummies (6%)

[meager ridge]

what if picking up feathers gives some throwing dart to attack hawk

[slim bane]

128 rucks +32 boss mat for boss dummy

[slender saddle]

every bow is now 0 damage and uses point blank for scaling

[thorn field]

"arrowbucks" is crazy

[atomic geyser]

infinite

over my dead body

[cloud bluff]

the arrow economy is dumb

no other class requires a constant flow of resources to play the game but i think "all bows should have infinity" is too hot a take for current monumenta

[stable oriole]

i support the scout tax

[atomic geyser]

the singular downside to scout:

[velvet nimbus]

noone is forcing you to use custom arrows

3 hcs is like 5k arrows from npc

[cloud bluff]

nobody said custom arrows, normal arrows are still a resource

[lyric basin]

me when the elite can be deleted from halfway across the room without a chance to blink:

[cloud bluff]

like i said this is too hot a take for current monumenta and for some reason everyone is going to act like i've never played the game

[lyric basin]

if scout wasn't scout and monumenta wasn't based on a minecraft map yeah arrows would probably be infinite by default

[stable oriole]

probably why durability is still a thing

[tender shale]

re: long term viability conversation
I think it'd be nice if ruck to pdia was dropped to 6 ruck for 1 pdia so u get 1 silver dust/0.5 pdia per hunt

also minor personal complaint about them being mw3 and needing more mats to mw4 than to buy

it kinda feels... weird?

using delve infusion price as a comparison point, a ruck's worth maybe 2 epic mats

assuming every mw lvl is gonna be more expensive than the last, you're looking at a starting point of 12 epic mats for a mw level

comparisons:
16 skr frags for rare, 4/6 for mw
4 delve mat + 1 pdia for exalted rare, 6/6 for mw
1 boss mat, 3 ruck for hunt rare, 6 for mw

huh I did not realize exalted rares were that cheap

[velvet nimbus]

its 3 ruck for the rare only charms are 5

[tender shale]

fixed

[versed lantern]

Exalteds my beloved

yeah so it's "5 rucks worth" for the rare, then 6 to upgrade it

[tender shale]

it's also feels weird that skr which needs u to do the 2 late (in current r3) content starts at mw2 but hunt starts at mw3

I mean I guess it's doesn't actually particularly change much, and mw rules have never been particularly consistent at all, but it still feels weird

imo 3 rucks for mw3 and then 3 more rucks for mw4 would be less unusual

[tender shale]

I think durability was meant to be melee's version of this

but uh it turns out having to constantly check your item's durability is really unfun

but anvils are cheap af so raising an item's durability results in the costs dropping to near nil

and epics have unbreakable anyway

...and then they made armor not take durability dmg in a number of content

[slender saddle]

oops all unbreaking 20
oops lime infusion

[tender shale]

Durability/ammo management is kinda a patchwork huh

I guess it falls under “something that should probably be fixed but there’s so many things more important to fix its low priority”

[smoky condor]

Durability used to matter a lot back in Alpha when gear was made more as a "consumable" rather than an upgrade to your character or your build, but it's a different game nowadays

[versed lantern]

Coughing durability vs hydrogen 15k anvils

[smoky condor]

In Alpha rare items wouldn't last you a dungeon, and anvils didn't exist

so you had to walk all the way back to sierhaven to repair manually and it was expensive, so the best way was just running soulleather or some tier 3 gear like spellweave

and just throw it out when it broke

[versed lantern]

I still have my old tiered sets from r1-2 that I used to manually swap out of (lockboxes didn't exist) with half of them comprised of now legacy items

I use to eat carrots

Saving the steak/pork like you'd save potions

[wet charm]

I really must say I quite enjoyed coca cola on first playthrough. Despite literally not logging in for about year the process of not only finding hunts, but also getting to participate in one was really reasonable. Boss was definitely well telegraphed and the mechanic was genuinely interesting. Excited to try out the rest of em when I get time to do so o7

[tender shale]

any1 know how the feathers work

[sharp briar]

which part

[shrewd roost]

From which ability

[plush forge]

Pick them up and hawk will fall

[slender saddle]

which actually makes the fight very easy as you just need to stand still while it's shooting the feathers and it falls on its own :)

[plush forge]

If you stand still and get hit by anything you spoil

The feathers drop randomly around the arena

Not sure why your be standing still to pick them up anyways

[slender saddle]

that's the joke

[plush forge]

[cloud bluff]

what was the point of rare items then

alpha means way way back before even kaul, right? what situations would you even need to "wear your best" in

[wet charm]

Now 3/3 on hunts. Love all of em. I don’t really have any negative feedback about them whatsoever. I think they’re totally reasonable in terms of damage, fight length, difficulty, loot, etc.

[charred tinsel]

Wither white. (I know this is after alpha but one of the times you would in the early days)

[sharp briar]

you'd wear your best to the dinner parties

obviously

[fair arch]

one positive thing i have to say about Hunts is that it brought a lot of Cloaked items into the meta which were previously wayyyy underused

like, Razorleaf Breeches, Silver Moon Crown, etc.

[fair arch]

is it possible to have the boss spawn on EVERY shard and STILL do the randomisation

i.e. you can enter from any of the 12 shards but you will be redistributed, without any regard to which shard you came from

[rugged steppe]

we are looking into possibilities but not sure when anything will happen or exactly what it will be

[slim bane]

Make ring13 and give it more resource and only spawn boss there

./j

[smoky condor]

They were slightly stronger "consumables" than the other stuff 🤣 When i joined the team like 8 years ago i rebalanced the game removing that aspect as we kept adding very rare items that were hard to get like the Corridoirs rares and the game slowly became what it is nowadays

Back then only dungeons up to yellow existed and corridoirs, reverie got launched a couple of weeks after i joined the team but 90% of it was already done by heliceo, i made only C'Axtal with Rayman coding it

[manic hemlock]

Oh wow reverie is that old

[smoky condor]

Time does fly

[oblique pulsar]

I think a good idea would be to make hol not spoil bosses . Healing a person just to spoil feels very odd.

[merry forge]

it is awkward not being able to heal during spoils

[tender shale]

Take off crusade maybe?

[thorny vessel]

Still does damage

[merry forge]

also crusade mark is a debuff on the mob, so you would need every cleric playing to not run crusade, despite it being the thing that makes their damage do useful amounts

[tender shale]

Crusade is shared between every cleric?

[thorny vessel]

Yeah

for healing i run hallowed beam tho so i dont have this issue

[merry forge]

usually fine, but sometimes 5 people lose 90% of their health at once

[exotic carbon]

Would Seal of the way fix that issue? Or does it still spoil despite dealing no dmg?

[coral tusk]

Seal should work yeah

[slim bane]

How is the matching mech work

Just did a run duo

idk why

[winged brook]

likely everyone lse was guilded

so you got left without any guild mates

[slim bane]

I have guild , my teammate have guild

but we both are only one who the guild online

[velvet nimbus]

i was shoved with lxt despite being the only person in my guild online

[rugged steppe]

it should be deciding how many people are on each shard before choosing where to send anyone based on guilds

so I'm not sure how a duo would happen unless a bunch of people crashed or something weird

[velvet nimbus]

had a trio happen during inpenetrable a few days ago as well

[slim bane]

noone crashed and shard also works fine

*shard didn't crash

[plush forge]

Had a trio before, was pretty awful and had to call for help

[slim bane]

Duo Uamil somehow feels fine

[velvet nimbus]

thats because uamiel is the goat

[cloud bluff]

i had a weird sorting moment where two guildmates (who definitely were in the hunt) got sorted into different shards than the other participating maids despite there being several open slots that ended up getting filled by players with no guildmates of their own

[marsh canyon]

that is just a horrible argument

the load is already not perfectly split since i was getting into 3 player shards on day 2 of release

and having people split themselfs means every shard will have ~10-20 people in it instead of 100

causing the shard to not crash and allow for friends to actually play with eachother

[tender shale]

That would be a bug though

While I agree large groups of online users are generally pretty terrible at load balancing, forcing people to use public matchmaking even when theyre capable of grouping themselves also sounds pretty silly

I feel like a hybrid approach would be more fair

Designate one shard as the “matchmaking queue” shard where everyone in it will be auto redistributed across shards when the hunt starts

Any player(s) in the other non-queue shards would be considered a “premade party” and remain in their shard when the hunt starts