What is Rending Razor supposed to be?

[raw gull]

Rending Razor is the new Ranger ability, replacing quickdraw. This feedback post will be focusing on the ability itself, not the overall scout changes (though they probably cannot be avoided during discussion)

Rending Razor description for reference:
Level 1: Right Click with no usable items to toss a spinning razor that travels 14.0 blocks and deals 12 Projectile damage when it embeds itself into an enemy. The razor lasts for 2s. If the enemy is still alive, recasting the skill rends the razor out of the enemy, pulling it slightly and dealing 16 Projectile damage to it and all enemies that the razor passes through. Cooldown: 8s.
Level 2: The razor's damage is increased to 16 for the impact and 22 for the rend. Additionally, all enemies damaged by the razor receive 20% Slowness for 4s. Cooldown: 6s.

What is its intended role? (My Ideas)

I see two potential roles this ability could play, and it almost seems like it tries to do both, as a consequence of which it does neither well.

1. AOE Clear Type Ability

Think Mana Lance. Short cooldown, meant to deal chip damage to large amounts of enemies, being casted in-between shots from the main projectile weapon used. This is what I at first assumed the ability was supposed to do, because of its (imo short/medium cooldown) 6 second cooldown, its aoe built in aoe damage (though only in the second part,) and because scout at base does not really need a single-target short/medium damage ability, since just shooting from bows/tridents/crossbows/snowballs already does the job very well.

What I imagined when I first read the ability (before testing) was that it was supposed to be used kind of like a sidearm - you shoot a mob, use it to clear and knockback the rest, shoot more. Basically being weaved in-between normal shots and high cooldown aoe abilities such as volley to add dynamic combat and diversity to the class.

If this is what the goal was - it failed. The main problem is that the only aoe is on the second part, which to hit on a larger group of mobs you need to embed it into a farther one. Despite this, the skill gives you no way to do that easily. It does not knockback the enemy you embed it in (so that it could be rended instantly even if it was embedded in the mob on the forefront of the horde, closest to you,) it does not pierce enemies, stopping on the last one.

.
You have to do mental gymnastics to hit it, like jumping with jump boost to hit the farthest enemy in a group, or trying to hit it sideways. Im not fundamentally against that sort of thing, except the damage on it is nowhere near enough to justify that kind of effort (youd be more effective just spamming your main weapon, or volleying once and killing all enemies) and youd have to do that every 6 seconds! (which means quite often during long encounters)
For these reasons, it in my opinion fails at this job.
My suggestions to bring it closer to this specific vision of the ability would be:

• Make it pierce all the enemies, embedding it on the last one it hits, thus making sure that with low effort it actually does its AOE job.
• Make it pierce all enemies, and embed a small fragment in each one. Recasting rends the fragment from each enemy, dealing damage to enemies it passes though (likely with a falloff of damage from fragments after the first one)
• Just remove the rend mechanic and make it a boomerang. This is the suggestion I'd recommend the least, but I'm including it just in case. The rend mechanic and recasting is unique and thematic, and I think it should stay.
  However, while discussing the ability in #gameplay-discussion @zenith wind gave me the idea that this may not be the main intended utilization of the skill, rather:

2. Elite Burst/DPS with some added minor AOE

The idea of this is to use it on a high-priority target in an encounter - usually an elite, and usually spawned the farthest from you (in comparison to minor mobs,) and then rending it to hit all the mobs between you and the elite. In this scenario, the intended utilization of the skill is to deal damage to elites, and the rend damage on mobs between you is supposed to be a bonus. In this case, the best skill to compare it to (that fills a similar niche) would be pstrike.
If this was the goal of the ability - it fails. Its damage is low enough to not matter on elites that much, especially since volley already does an extraordinary job at killing both the elite and the mobs around it. In addition to that, it STILL requires quite a lot more effort, and, crucially, time.
When dealing with elites, you really want to burst them. They can dash, spawn mobs, cast magic, etc. Thats what pstrike is for - killing the elite before anything happens. This is also something volley achieves, as its near instantaneous and deals high burst damage. Rend requires more time, and does not guarantee an elite kill more than just normal shooting would
My suggestions to bring it closer to this specific vision of the ability would be:

• INCREASE THE COOLDOWN (and increase the damage.)If its supposed to be used on elites, no need for a 6 second cooldown. In fact, if the damage increased along with the cooldown, this ability could be used as this vision predicts without any larger changes. I dont have any more ideas for how this vision could be achieved though.
  .

Discussion

I am making this post for 2 reasons:

• To share my ideas and visions for the skill
• To create a place where the skill could be discussed (without interruption and tangents such as in #gameplay-discussion)

Some of my general thoughts to kickstart the discussion (aside from content above) would be:

I really like the idea of the ability. It finally introduces projectile damage abilities to the game outside of cz/dd, and imo is the devs' attempt on bringing more active gameplay and diversity to the class. In addition, if the first vision I outlined is true, then its a step forward to give scout more tools to play with other than volley and normal shooting, making room for volley nerfs and more diversity in gameplay.

It also nicely uses the existing razor/blade-esque thematic that Ranger already used with whirling blades. The rending mechanic is very unique and im really liking the direction the devs are going in.
I hope this post gets some respones from devs working on the ability that will clear up its "identity crisis" I outlined above. Even then, I believe the post will be useful as it will give new ideas and spur on discussion from others who have tested the ability.

[latent talon]

wtb rending charms can't even test this ability properly bro 😭

[opal nexus]

As a base mechanic the rend will likely be staying

[raw gull]

Fair enough, though I think my points with the first interpretation would still stand (and this sentiment of no real aoe has been echoed by others ive talked with about the ability), and I STILL think the cooldown is too short for the second interpretation, even with charms. This could be fixed by a mourning style charm, but base skill problems would remain.

[opal nexus]

As a boomerang ability it feels more like a “This might as well be damage in a line” and then we’d never draw the line

[raw gull]

actually, its an interesting thought how both visions could be realized thou8rhg charms. If so, i think vision 1 should be the base skill, as itd be more useful in r2.

[raw gull]

which is also why i dislike the idea.

(and dislike the recent sug)

[opal nexus]

It may not make much sense but it’s more keeping the skill expression in using it

[raw gull]

i think it makes sense 😭

[opal nexus]

And if the reward for using it isn’t enough, that’s a way easier thing to fix

[warm finch]

feels cluncky to use 😭

[raw gull]

the idea is amazing imo, just that the implementation seems unfocused

[opal nexus]

What I gleaned is that the cursor following was very split in terms of reception

[warm finch]

maybe what I think could be done is that the rend attaches to enemy on return

[opal nexus]

Others were like me and really enjoyed moving the cursor up and behind enemies

and others were a mix of

1. didn’t understand the ability/not accustomed
2. disliked it through lack of reward through effort

[raw gull]

i experimented with it a bit. the problem is, again, the expected utility for the effort is not good

[opal nexus]

and a third which i frankly forgot

[warm finch]

I personally just don't like the rending mechanic

[opal nexus]

I think the idea of raising the cooldown but making the overall damages higher is something of note if it does seem like it’s just spamming low damages and getting nothing done

[raw gull]

also, i think if its supposed to be used a lot with its short cd and not interrupt your normal gameplay cycle of shooting it should be easier to use

[warm finch]

I would love the idea of razor getting cdr if you kill enemy with rending the projectile out

or maybe 2nd charge of rend

[opal nexus]

I’m not sure what would even have to happen code-wise for a 2nd charge

Mechanically it may just not function with the rend mechanic

[warm finch]

idk, it would just sound more fun to have 2 charges tbh

or being able to spam the ability with successful rend pulls

[opal nexus]

the latter sounds like carpal tunnel syndrome that locks you out of regular shots

[raw gull]

definitely one of the more annoying parts of the skill was how it interrupted the normal regular shot gameplay cycle, and had to make me think how to weave the 2, while not actually doing that much

[warm finch]

thinking about it, rend is just certified junker queen's "knife throw" ability copycat

[raw gull]

i am for making more abilities to weave in-between as a concept (as seen with my favouritism towards vision 1) but its hard to say how itd function in practice

[opal nexus]

The most appealing solution to me right now is to lean more into the high effort usecase and decrease how often it is being used, while increasing its overall impact

[warm finch]

I love ability spam 🥺

[raw gull]

i think thats fair, but im still for option 1 because it replaced the core identity of ranger - short cd high damage quickdraw

[opal nexus]

There’s a fine line between too long and too short

[warm finch]

if you gonna make the cooldown for razor longer then maybe give cdr on successful rend pulls perhaps?

not like

too spammy

[raw gull]

ranger should really have something to spam, or otherwise its just base scout with a dash, get-away-from-me skill and a pstrike (wow, doesnt that sound like hunter but without the dash?)

[bitter hazel]

~sug add Make hunting companion able to grab your razor, which can then be recalled

[warm finch]

~sug add let rend pick up items from the floor and bring them to you

[opal nexus]

I’m very open to discussion here, but at the same time I would also like to let more people settle in to how it is currently before we decide anything

[raw gull]

this is bad for 2 reasons:
first, both specs are the same in practice. how sad.
second, while hunter has 2 passives to facilitate a trident ball/bow/crossbow playstyle, ranger does not. so itd be just strictly worse at everything

[opal nexus]

It’s not been a long time since its release and I would like to see more people get accustomed to it and test it charmed as well

[raw gull]

When they do, theres a place they can write their thoughts in

and the devs can evaluate new feedback though theoretical ideas that were mentioned here

[opal nexus]

doesn’t stop us from talking about it now though, go ahead with it

[raw gull]

im mostly finished here anyway

gonna go to sleep, hopefully theres some more diverse feedback from more people when i wake up

[umbral edge]

maybe there could be a toggle for the cursor following aspect?

something like it not following when you shift ( for an example at least )

[opal nexus]

I think that’d be good for those who dislike it, but I also think it’s really disadvantageous to turn it off

Considering that getting it behind mobs was made way easier by the fact that you could move it back there after it had travelled

[raw gull]

just a note

[raw gull]

this is not outlined in the skill description

(the cursor following aspect)

might have to think about changing it, as its a significant part of the skill and how it plays

[umbral edge]

While that's true, I think anyone who uses the skill once would instantly know that

[low kestrel]

Honestly from the original description I thought it’d be a lot faster and straighter than this

[wicked acorn]

I've got some experience and imo I'd slow down the cooldown to 8-9 seconds, with Mycosis bringing it down to where it currently is uncharmed. Raise the damage slightly and give Razor 2 roughly 20% faster travel speed

The faster the ability travels the less time you have to spend micromanaging it in-air

Any speed buff you give it will make it feel smoother

We already have precedent for what razor feels like when it's at its peak - you can experience it right now in r2

[stoic phoenix]

the cursor following was an interesting mechanic but it's not very intuitive to use that to get it to faraway enemies, and also the razor is made of particles which means you really only see it move at like 5fps

[wicked acorn]

tweaking the cursor behavior would only serve to make the ability worse

[lime atlas]

What if it arched and could land on the ground? like a trident that then is retrieved like loyalty but does damage on the way back?

[stoic phoenix]

it would feel better if it was a wind charge or something (unfortunately it's not 1.20.5 yet)

[wicked acorn]

you can do that right now if you flick your mouse

[lime atlas]

it follows your mouse?

[wicked acorn]

Yes

just throw it upwards and swing it downward

[lime atlas]

huh okay thats interesting

[wicked acorn]

you can swing it in whatever direction you want

there's a skill floor that i think most people have yet to adjust to

[bitter hazel]

what if razors could stack and the rend keybind pulls all of them

[tulip sigil]

I feel like this should be explained in the tool tip?

Unless I’m blind, nothing in the tooltip hints at it and this behavior seems a bit difficult to realize on your own

[bitter hazel]

Oh, another suggestion
If ranger is supposed to be more melee focused, then rending could give some melee damage bonus while it's embedded in the mob - also makes sense thematically

[wicked acorn]

unlikely

in fact i'd wager chargingbucks that its the opposite, that scout gradually loses melee tools rather than gains them

the fact that razor has no explicit melee synergy is deliberate i think

[plush cradle]

Only synergy is that it can be casted with melee weapons

[tulip sigil]

I think it makes sense that razor is ranged, and I consider this a synergy in a weird way

Unless I’m mistake, only magic dmg and a few extremely specific exceptions can bypass iframes, yes?

[plush cradle]

Razor has independent iframe from normal projectiles

[shut rose]

Razor not automatically performing its Rend on enemy death or expiry of the 2s feels like it would make it a micro nightmare ngl

especially for a skill with a 6s CD

[winter notch]

I personally felt like it was a worse whirling blade

Similar dmg but low aoe capability and no stun

[shut rose]

more accurately it’s a proj boosted whirling vs. whirling being melee boosted

[winter notch]

Yeah but point still stands

Just a different dmg type and range

If it dealt dmg while the enemy is embedded then different story

[plush cradle]

mscout and projectile scout also has different needs

[winter notch]

Yeah but I personally use razor for proj ranger simply because "whirling is worse"

It's like pre class change guardian where every lvl 1 was bad so people were forced to pick 2-2

[stoic phoenix]

the hit doesn't have separate iframes from the rend, though

really easy to accidentally iframe yourself by recalling within 0.5s

intentional? idk

[raw gull]

update: did not go to sleep

got some more feedback

first and foremost: the skill functions well in r2

which i guess i should have started with in the post - i tested it in r3 mainly

turns out the reasonable amount of mobs and magic in r2 leading to less chaotic gameplay leads to clearer uses of rend, and as such it makes it much more enjoyable to use

i used baxeico and it was quite enjoyable and easy to add rend into my gameplay loop

that said, the gameplay gave me a few (imo) great ideas on how to spice up the skill

first, its damage on elites can be improved without changing the skill base damage through a very unique mechanic that i feel like fits both with the gameplay and the thematic

when you rend, you repeat some of the projectile damage you dealt between you put the blade in the enemy and when you rended it

i noticed there is little incentive to just not spam right click to rend the enemy instantly

meanwhile it felt natural and enjoyable to shoot the projecitle, switch to my crossbow and then rend them

why not build it into the gameplay loop?

this is also something thatd apply only to elites, as normal mobs are likely to die from the rend itself without the mechanic

on the other hand it would provide a clear and strong single-target (elite) burst power

that said, this might make it too op, and too well-rounded (both good at clearing and actually deals massive damage to elites)

just leaving it as a thought maybe. Imo its a great idea that would improve the ability thematically and gameplay wise

another suggestion - at a low cost to balance, the thematic of the ability could be improved by making rended enemies bleed

low cost to balance because the enemies will likely be dead anyway when theyre rended

and thematically it fits because... you just embedded the enemy with a SPINNING RAZOR, and then BRUTALLY RIPPED IT OUT

the gameplay in r2 made me realize how much the lack of charms, and r3's sheer mob bullshitness made me see the abiility differently that I shouldve

I still stand by the 2 visions I had, but now i think they should be explored through charms, either strenghtening the vision 1 or 2

as rend is (afaik) supposed to replace quickdraw as the staple skill of ranger, making it charm dependent to some extent shouldnt be a huge issue

that said, even in r2 the skill fared FAR, FAR worse against terrain that wasnt mostly flat. In r3, i still think it should receive buffs (though keep this in mind with a grain of salt until charms are truly explored) in r3 due to the region's huge changes in just sheer intensity and tempo, but some of the other concers ive had were solved by farther testing and mastery with the skill

cant wait for more people to get to know it and leave feedback

[shut rose]

how strong is the pull, btw

[raw gull]

oh, and i will be picking up ranger for r2 from now on. the skill seems very fun to use along with baxeico

just as a side note, i think scout changes were goog

good job devs

[shut rose]

i figure the best keybind should be swap or shift swap for Rending Razor, so you can cast while drawing your crossbow, right?

[raw gull]

i actually forgot to do that (did now) and have been switching to my pick xd

[raw gull]

what the hell

the moues following is much stronger than i anticipated

i just rended a mob, turned around by instinct cuz a blaze was firing at me, and it died

the turn was like almost 180% degrees, and it died by accident

[shut rose]

the projectile isn't a true projectile

it just follows your mouse EXACTLY and is always at a certain distance away

this means if you cast razor and step through a tp pad it tps the razor too

[tulip sigil]

Its actually magic missile

[opal nexus]

I found it nice to have it bound on right click and use it to supplement high damage bow shots

[frozen parcel]

You have to do mental gymnastics to hit it, like jumping with jump boost to hit the farthest enemy in a group, or trying to hit it sideways.

you don't really have to do any of that, since Razor follows your line of vision, what i do is that i look away, shoot, look back at the crowd of mobs to hit the back of the line, then pull

but ngl i like the "mental gymnastics" part of this, i find it fun

[raw gull]

this was before i fully tapped into the potential of it following the cursor tbh

[raw gull]

this is the moment of the realization

it still takes more effort than say volley

but ive been testing it for a while and it is fun

also, complete side note, but shouldnt ranger get a new spec quest

iirc its just shooting targets

and the spec is a mid range mobile one, with 2 skills somehow involving blades

even hunter's spec quest is more fitting to that

[uncut dew]

Looking at #suggestions-voting I don't think razor by default should have piercing, rather that should be saved to charms in some form. I could 100% see razor getting "+1 piercing" when casted as a charm stat if it was reserved to charms. Since the rend part is a core/cool aspect of razor I don't think it should become a direct boomerang by default, if anything it should be a charm thing.

[quasi python]

The thing about ranger in particularly r3 is razor replaced what was essentially ability that was a main attack replacement and was doing work equal to two abilities if not more

Hunter is just so much better razor in current state is not worth losing split or pinning shot

[quasi python]

I wish but this is not the case most of time, atleast in r3

[zenith wind]

Yeah that's pretty true isn't it... hunter is probably the uncontested best proj spec now

Tact and whirling are cute but I never found them to truly supplement a proj playstyle

[quasi python]

Well considering neither tact nor whirling scale off projectile, yes

Ranger in r3 is purely a melee spec unless charmed razor goes hard enough to do double work

Qd as a base skill has much more synergy with hunter aswell ironically

[wicked acorn]

:)

[quasi python]

Is new li that good

[wicked acorn]

Not LI

Not Paladin

[quasi python]

Beamerophant is low budget qd

With heals

[shut rose]

would it be reasonable to make all of ranger's damage scale fullly from both proj and melee percent

[wicked acorn]

Floral Anguish ones know

[shut rose]

gotk w/ new cbless and dew

[wicked acorn]

enhanced versatile as a spec passive

[quasi python]

This is exactly what i was thinking ironically

[shut rose]

can get nearly full uptime on a 50% damage buff

[wicked acorn]

there's a snowball's chance in hell that ever becomes a thing but it would be awesome actually

[shut rose]

and can neglect the need to mark anything

7.5s + 5s from cbless u

[quasi python]

Ranger really lacks aoe rn and whirling is aoe

[shut rose]

just need to remember to melee a mob in time

[wicked acorn]

i'm actually using beam with solar smite 🥴

[shut rose]

which is actually pretty damn hard to do but

a better player than I could do it

[true elk]

when i tried it in r2 for like 5 seconds my first impression was to do the flick around (above, below, side) the mobs whilst charging something

bow crossbow trident

then all your downtimes are the same and you don’t lose damage by not aiming

[raw gull]

i feel like this could be solved by reworking whirling blade

its a general problem of the spec now

and it doesnt help that one ability is pure mobility and the other is... not that useful when playing ranged

it does have its niche of "get-away-from-me"

which actually makes ranger an interesting spec that is better suited to using pb since theyre safer closer, and rend is now a mid range skill

well, not exactly mid range but i found it to be the optimal use distance

itd also be interesting to see changes to tact. for example giving it RANGED offensive capabilities, maybe like the wynncraft subclass which spawns arrows when it jumps away

rn it deals damage... if you dive headfirst into an enemy

it stuns, but not exactly a great synergy

[quasi python]

Ranger when not very ranged

Which i actually prefer but neither tact nor whirling actually do proj damage and rend is not carrying the spec on its own right now

Ranged offensive tact sounds interesting but im not sure about how its gonna work

Simplest bandaid solution is just make whirl and tact buff your projectile damage after using them

[shut rose]

simplest bandaid solution is just make ranger spec skills scale off proj% and melee% fully

[quasi python]

Also works ig

[tulip sigil]

imagine if the scout passive intended to handle this problem this was tuned properly to begin with instead

[fathom pond]

Whirling blade needs changes then or maybe not

Depends on tms philosophy of "scout needs to be ranged"

Whirling how it is would be cool but u aren't really ranged at that point

But i like the idea of making rangers dmg neutral

Maybe it scales off your highest dmg percent

[lime atlas]

I think it is quite funny that "ranger" has a melee skill.

[fathom pond]

Make it not embedded and move slowrr

So u can have a high skill ceiling with the whole following cursor thing

And make it actually good

[raw gull]

i think embedding and rending through recasting should stay

\its unique and fun

i dont know if i just want a generic boomerang ability

[warm finch]

what if we had a toggleable mode between the two

[tulip sigil]

These seem like something charms could be made to emulate depending on tweaks

[lime atlas]

I would love to see a +1 embeds charm.

[true elk]

the other thing i did with this ability was to embed a mob on the right and physically move to the left

but

that only works in open spaces

[lime atlas]

Just make it psylocke’s shuriken ability

When you pull that out of an enemy it goes to your cursor first then back to you.

[true elk]

but where’s your cursor

[lime atlas]

What do you mean where is your cursor

It’s the max range distance from where you’re looking, up to the closest block/mob you’re looking at

If you look at nothing it goes 12 blocks out

[tulip sigil]

Wherever you’re looking at

Its pretty much magic missile

[fathom pond]

Steal from Marvel rivals fire

[lime atlas]

I mean it’s a fun ability with depth

[tulip sigil]

Personally i think the biggest issue currently is failure to convey info? I think it would help a lot if the description was more useful so ppl didnt have to fuck around to figure out how the basics of how the skill actually functions?

[stark sapphire]

rending razor should pierce when thrown

[quick orbit]

erm

[charred sorrel]

looking at razor

it just feels like it needs to pierce

like the particles just look like it pierces mobs and it just does not make sense that hitting the first mob will stop all progress

[frozen parcel]

why?

I honestly don't understand the sentiment behind giving Razor pierce because that just defeats the whole point of the ability itself imo

you throw the Razor to the backline, you pull, everything along the way gets hit, profit. It's fun

[zenith wind]

Scouts wanting their damage to come easy isn't a surprise 🫃

[charred sorrel]

no it just looks like it needs pierce trust

[charred sorrel]

cuz like its kinda silly if theres a bunch of mobs that u throw the razor and then it just gets stuck on the first guy no aoe

[frozen parcel]

couldn't you t.manouver behind enemies in most situations?

[charred sorrel]

its very counterintuitive

instead of right click to pierce mobs

u jump around to hit the last mob and then do damage?

also it sounds like a rapid fire machine gun

[frozen parcel]

I see

[bitter hazel]

i think it's cool and it's not like scout has a problem with easy aoe

[south elk]

This sounds like you need to play with the skill more and learn to hook it around enemies instead of just firing it towards a group

[frozen parcel]

this tbh, I understand sometimes that mistakes happen and also sometimes mobs really get in your face, happened to me too. But hitting backlines is something one should learn

[lime atlas]

Shift while using tactical manuever to back away from enemies quickly.

[fathom pond]

Bro the skill just doodoo buff the dmg

[frozen parcel]

a little bit? I mostly use it as a way to weaken enemies and as a "finisher", I think once you have some sharp stacks and use eagle eye it's pretty good

[wicked acorn]

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🌕🌕🌕🌖🌑🌑🌑🌑🌑🌑🌒🌕

[frozen parcel]

holy shit

[shut rose]

rend an enemy and then hit it with a punch bow 👍

sug add more punch items in Ring

[wicked acorn]

sug add state mandate players to do their r3 fishing dailies under the threat of ban

[shut rose]

you could use one of these. less good isles punch items than i remembered

[plush cradle]

The damage is not that good but it’s kinda spammable
Goes back to the original point
Maybe it should be longer cd and more impactful instead

[fathom pond]

I don't care about a finisher ability

The ability should just do the damage and finishing part (kill the mob)

I thought maybe the embedded damage could proc every second u leave it in a mob

So u throw it at elite and deal with other mobs as elite dies

[frozen parcel]

eh that sounds pretty boring, but I like Icy's idea of making it a bit heavier

[wicked acorn]

would be pretty cool

i think that there probably should be a greater incentive to use the embed more instead of it just being a boomerang

[fathom pond]

Idk the skill just does not fill the gaping hole in my heart that was once filled by quickdraw

It just needs to be stronger in every way imo

Still think it should just pierce both ways and get a dmg buff

But idk ig we will see

[tulip sigil]

How do u determine who gets the projectile embeded when piercing

[bitter hazel]

presumably it would be "flies to maximum distance and then teleports back to the last one hit"

unless it's somehow projected and constantly overwritten whenever you move your mouse

[plush cradle]

It could just be like
Only the way back can the razor embed
And it will pierce on the way forward

But idk I think volley should be the only scout aoe (and scout aoe is already good with just 1 ability)
Like scout would be a class with all single (or limited targets) damage besides volley you have to like be smart with it
That’s just my vision though idk not me to decide

[bitter hazel]

nerf volley!!
especially the enhancement!!

270% on a single enhance + bleed is an interesting balancing decision when everything else is like
10-20%

[leaden linden]

bf u

wind bomb is aoe

pstrike is aoe

[plush cradle]

aoe damage
And pstrike aoe is so small that I think limited targets fits the skill

[leaden linden]

40-50% weapon's projectile dmg aoe 👍

how much dmg does mage do with base spells in r2? i think wind bomb does around the same

[bitter hazel]

a powerful attack that deals 6 damage