The Damage Situational

[raven compass]

I don't think the reduction tends to cover more than the first couple hours/full day cycle of players reading and playing the changes

[bold imp]

Easily alleviated with correctly justified feedback notes, however there can always be incorrect notes like how LI was changed because Paladin was too close in gameplay to Reaper (literally nobody agrees with that view)

If you lay it all out before release, there’s less knee jerks

However the knee jerks go up if your reasoning isn’t agreeable by the majority of players

[raven compass]

after a day or two of playing it, seeing what tweaks to the builds may be needed, etc. we tend to end up with a more informed response

[winter bear]

In the past 24 hours reducing rhetoric has been used to downplay feedback far out of this frame of time

[raven compass]

idk, dev notes in changelogs is just one of those things i, irrationally or not, just don't think work as well as people want them to. just seems to end up fueling the fire more

[winter bear]

knowing why a change was made let's people give more educated feedback

like objectively

[raven compass]

Reducing in general is different from reducing because of the expected initial discussions

[winter bear]

it gives players a starting point

and lends to more feedback that the devs won't dismiss as not constructive because it helps the players aid the devs in terms of their intended vision

[wooden harbor]

I think Spy meant that Paladin Spell Cycle was similar to Warlock's Spell cycle which is just all spells and amp hex at end. Paladin was similar with it casting all spells and then Luminous at the last

[raven compass]

Personally it just seems like it gives people 2 things to disagree with, even if they disagree with them seperately, leading to feedback on the dev notes just as much as feedback on the actual changes

But that's just me, in the end

[winter bear]

That's just pessimistic thinking

[livid vapor]

This wasnt really that true

[winter bear]

Which is in alignment with the post feedback whining thing

[raven compass]

others like using it more, i've used it once or twice but waiting till people can go out and experience it seems to be more my approach

[livid vapor]

And it's a bizare reason anyway

[bold imp]

Unlike Warlock, Luminous and its other castables are independent so idk

Using that logic Devastation is too close to Amp hex

[silent lily]

that is hilarious

[raven compass]

Probably not the biggest secret that i've never been the most optimistic person 😛

i do have some optimism, but some things just fall into a pattern regardless of what i do, accepting that and adjusting to it makes it easier to consume mentally

make it through enough once-in-a-lifetime phenomena and i just learned to accept some things don't change even though i may want them to (trained off of years of WoW and many, many guilds of failed raid teams as well as just good ol' life)

[nocturne adder]

C'axtal's crusher, energized mailstorm / trashing tide (they are identical) and ex prismatic blade. The magic damage mainhands have 0 reason not to be run on shaman. They are the only weapons that improve totem damage and do so by a significant amount to the point where they are mandatory (not that you would want to even use a regular melee weapon on a magic class that would do no damage with it to begin with). Previously you could justify using a regicide weapon on shaman, since that enchant works with totems but now every single regicide option is just worst then the magic weapons even ageist elites so they are unviable.

meanwhile regicide armor pieces used to have more value on shaman too. You could justify being weaker ageist normal mobs with the help of regicide to still do more damage to the tougher mobs that needed it. Now that regicide is a cosmetic enchant; those options are mostly all useless unless the item was already very good without regicide

[frozen vault]

well ophion is better than caxtals crusher against elites by 2% and worse against bosses by 3%

[cursive remnant]

minor spelling mistake

[frozen vault]

?

[cursive remnant]

normally I wouldn't point it out but ageist and against are two different words

[nocturne adder]

2% is not gonna make lightning totem do even 1 more damage vs elites

[cursive remnant]

the point is a good one though

[frozen vault]

enlighthen me

[frozen vault]

yeah, caxtals is just better

[cursive remnant]

I wonder now, can you find an interaction where Ophion beats C'Axtal's

it'd be funny if there was like one or two

[frozen vault]

well

[cursive remnant]

like Ophion kills an elite in 1 fewer Fire Totem tick for example

[frozen vault]

it could and it also has melee prot 1

[cursive remnant]

true!

[nocturne adder]

even if it did; being only 2% better is not worth it since elites are accompanied by normal mobs (the mutiny scythe has the same problem; its only technically better but in practice has no use)

[cursive remnant]

Mutiny at least has application on Warlock

normal Amp Hexes clean house on basic enemies so building for Elites is a viable alternative

[frozen vault]

Caxtal's Crusher and Ophion have no shared letters

[cursive remnant]

h\

[frozen vault]

damn

[nocturne adder]

ya, it was odd that shaman was even considering to use warlock items in the first place. But thats just how starved it is for weapons that it tried to turn to scythes which are literally mathematically weaker then axes / swords.

[cursive remnant]

ngl Shaman as a class should try to fix that problem instead of changing items to fit the class

force the class to ask for more than magic damage% in the mainhand

sure some classes restrict options like Rogue forcing sword mainhand and offhand, but there's still appeal in a variety of sword stats

Swordsage could consider Reclamation, Clockblade, Hyperion, or Blightblood all for very different reasons

[frozen vault]

why do scythes need to have lower budget than other mainhands

[cursive remnant]

Shaman goes "Which mainhand has the highest magic damage I'll pick that one because there's no reason to consider other options"

maybe Shaman can consider Godcap because haha funny hold shield and win

[cursive remnant]

I forget the original justification but that justification is like 4 years old and outdated

Scythes could get buffed a tad

[nocturne adder]

but you can choose bis damage and just switch to shield 😈

[cursive remnant]

there we go

solved meta 🔥

I only imagine what Aurora Mirror Shaman gets to cheat at

[frozen vault]

huh with 0.8 now the scythe is not that miserable

[nocturne adder]

since totem damage is based on your weapon before its casted you can currently cast totem with magic damage weapon, then switch to a fightning melee weapon. But as a pure magic class regular melee weapons are not helpful on shaman (even in region 1; just crusher provides enough melee)

I agree that there should be more weapons with new enchants that help shaman because of this

[frozen vault]

Crusher + chain lighting (i have it bound to left click) oneshots most mobs

[cursive remnant]

Shaman could at the very least try to care about base melee damage on its mainhand

there's a reason why Truest North was the option on release

[frozen vault]

was worldly protection nerfing damage always a thing

[cursive remnant]

have an ability that interacts with melee combat instead of using the argument of "well what else are you doing? go wet noodle them!"

[cursive remnant]

it was added because everyone was using Truest on Shaman

[frozen vault]

[cursive remnant]

well ok the actual answer was "mainhand independent classes" but that is only Shaman

Guardian could use it in a tank setup but why

[frozen vault]

cleric too kinda but it actually uses mainhands for their base stats

[cursive remnant]

Cleric "can" but that's a specific archetype in R3 only

R2 unviable entirely, R1 only viable in low level content since DJ flat damage is high enough

[frozen vault]

and not just defense/magic dmg

[glacial oriole]

that is uhhh

not how it works

in the slightest

[amber lava]

true

[wooden harbor]

True

Hey I didn't make the claim I'm just trying to comprehend what it could possibly have meant

[amber lava]

what if lumonous infusion scaled with attack speed

or throw rate

[livid vapor]

What if luminous infusion scaled with infusions

why is this skill so complicated now

sob

[inland bolt]

LI now scales with attack, attack speed, throw rate, agility, armor, infusions, speed, kbr and every stat that you can think of

[amber lava]

what if luminous infusion was usable with bow

[nocturne adder]

what if luminous infusion was usable

sorry that was mean, I'm sure it will end up alright in the end!

[glacial oriole]

isn't it is already

[south sable]

you don't get stacks so you're chained to the 12s + 0.5s/stack cooldown