closest ive seen is brawl stars XDXDXD
#Scout Changes
calm acorn
west eagle
because its not fun if roles are exclusively distinct.
thats why it doesnt happen lol
karmic coral
yeah with how solo friendly monu wants to be i dont think true distinct roles will ever be possible
magic rover
Monumenta doesn't have holy trinity class design, different classes can fill the same role
west eagle
Monumenta doesn't have holy trinity class design, different classes can fill the...
did you read the convo
calm acorn
but yeah i think scout doesnt deserve to get a part of its kit killed cuz this isnt a distinct role game
magic rover
R3 just fucked up by doing broken checks broken and now you play whatever class is overpowered (well, isn't underpowered since most of them are overpowered)
calm acorn
yeah people just gravitate towards scout cuz its braindead easy
other classes aren't competitive but still insane
magic rover
tbf it's also the only trueprojectile class in the game
calm acorn
proj cleric has been looking alright might try it
magic rover
Cleric and Mage have subset playstyles but Scout commited the most
calm acorn
tbf it's also the only trueprojectile class in the game
"true", mscout:
magic rover
shit
worldly cloud
scout is closest to an "archer" class we got
karmic coral
what aspect of scout do people find the "most" op?
worldly cloud
I think scout just has everything class would ever want
mobility, range, aoe, damage and utility
magic rover
what aspect of scout do people find the "most" op?
you have the clearing power of an AoE class and enough single target to obsolete a designated single target role while also doing it all at a range that Monumenta mobs cannot really contest you at
Monumenta mobs frankly suck complete ass at applying pressure at range
karmic coral
is the solution to that just an overall dmg nerf or am i underthinking this
worldly cloud
scout should be jack-of-all-trades, master of non
tuning down its aoe capability would be good place to start
karmic coral
so change of some kind to volley U and maybe a dmg nerf?
worldly cloud
nerfing volley u and quickdraw piercing should be enough
magic rover
is the solution to that just an overall dmg nerf or am i underthinking this
for the case of ranged classes there actually needs to be applicable tools given to mobs to deal with distant targets
karmic coral
for the case of ranged classes there actually needs to be applicable tools given...
how do you do that without completely decimating melee players though?
magic rover
Twisted Astrologer is an excellent candidate for this actually
make the Teleport and/or Meteor target furthest player
worldly cloud
how do you do that without completely decimating melee players though?
easy solution: tune down scout's mobility options
magic rover
one pressures positioning and the other gives a threatening attack to dodge
Tolumaeus melee zombies have a dash attack on approach, you could give them a stronger dash if players are far enough away
karmic coral
easy solution: tune down scout's mobility options
idk i feel like a decent amount of people play scout for the mobility
past cargo
how do you do that without completely decimating melee players though?
just do pursuit attacks
If a player is far enough away cast special spell that requires them to move/react faster than normal - like, 4x speed arcane arrow with slight homing
magic rover
Hitscan magic projectiles can pressure long distance without making the projectile unavoidable for CQC
Twisted Shadow could target furthest player with its tpbehind as well
worldly cloud
idk i feel like a decent amount of people play scout for the mobility
lootrunners mostly 
scout is bis lootrunning class
past cargo
I was half joking about giving mobs jchain but it would be cool for elites to thunderdome you like the blue shield wall water branch elites
karmic coral
thats more so the haste then the mobility though
magic rover
you can also give enemies multitarget abilities to potentially catch ranged players
worldly cloud
thats more so the haste then the mobility though
jump boost 3 and tactical manuever gives scouts huge boost in mobility
karmic coral
like yeah the mobility helps for it but if you took away the haste alch would be nearly as good at lootrunning
and it would let you survive a lot more attacks
worldly cloud
I just think scout should be effective at range, but have less aoe
karmic coral
fair
volley U is kinda insane for its price
so is sharpshooter level 1 tbh
why is a skill alowed to hand out 25% dmg for free
magic rover
nerfing Scout to the point where it goes significantly slower than melee wouldn't be the best solution, you gotta give Scouts a game to play against the mobs that isn't aimlabs
sure Scout does need a nerf
but Scout isn't the whole problem since problems with Scout tend to also resonate with EArrows Mage and Proj Cleric (just to a lesser extent ATM due to Scout's balance)
karmic coral
people play Earrows?????
magic rover
you can two shot an Albert on a 5s cooldown if that answers your question
pseudo infinite pierce too because Spirits are good
karmic coral
is that with leyline?
calm acorn
what aspect of scout do people find the "most" op?
its volley and the spec skills basically
eagle eye is problematic imo but oh well
not the most broken
calm acorn
its volley and the spec skills basically
spec skills is pretty loose considering its 1 skill on either spec
so volley, split arrow, and quickdraw are probs causing the biggest issues imo
magic rover
Pinning is also a big one
hoary pine
pinning makes no difference whatsoever lol
magic rover
mob hp bloat it gives you up to 40 damage on basics for shooting them a second time
calm acorn
nah its noticeable but not needed at all
hoary pine
unless you enjoy that 1s of stun or whatever it is
calm acorn
its not an issue imo
hoary pine
I personally use pinning only for cosmetic skin lul
calm acorn
split arrow alone is the only reason needed to pick the spec which should say magnitudes
same for quickdraw
unreal halo
remove scout from the game đź‘Ť
All balance issues in this thread solved
rare spoke
It would justcbeckme ckeric next
I had a seizure i think
rare spoke
hes not wrong
It also has the secobd highest dos in the game while provding major buffs
And gets insanely close to having the most dos
chrome ice
biero literally feels like scout if volley was instead hallowed beam
Biero isn't nearly as strong
It works well in a team but it's aoe is not it
calm acorn
It's just scout with no aoe
Does significantly worse cuz of that
Also speaks to how dumb volley is
north crescent
scout also has wind bomb for a mild aoe and a pretty good passive
chrome ice
Also speaks to how dumb volley is
1 ability being half of the class
past trout
scout also has wind bomb for a mild aoe and a pretty good passive
wind bomb for decent lockdown
hunting companion for backup against mob rushes
split arrow and pinning shot for crowd control
volley and quickdraw but you know that
hell even predator strike at least has a small AoE component
beiro? hope you brought piercing arrows because you're running state mandated BIS proj damage because running magic damage on heirophant is a trap
granite plinth
Wind bomb is probably the coolest scout skill just because it has echoes of actual synergy with things like the "above you" infusion and wind bomb passive, plus it also works better in high point content because it can "stun" melee mobs that are cc immune
north crescent
- hitting mobs launched up by it feels satisfying
calm acorn
i think a trap skill (igneous rune port maybe?) would be a great fit for hunter and could replace pinning
would certainly make it better identity and gameplay wise but would need nerfs elsewhere probs
slate shard
Add wynncraft trapper to monumenta :3
calm acorn
i want to say that but people have a stigma around copying wynn so
wouldnt be well recieved
although bouncing traps placing multiple traps + patient hunter are not bad concepts for monumenta
past cargo
Explosive trap
Left Click while holding a projectile weapon immediately shoot an arrow that explodes on impact, dealing damage in a 3 block radius and setting a mine where it explodes, which arms itself after 2 seconds. The mine triggers when a mob enters within 3 blocks, and explodes dealing 250% of the arrow's damage to enemies within 5 blocks. Maximum of 3 traps placed. Cooldown: 6 seconds.
Level 2: the cooldown is reduced to 3 seconds, the arrow gains +1 piercing and can place two traps per arrow now, and each trap restores your cooldowns by 1% per second and by 10% when exploding
quickdraw 2 getting minimum 2x effectiveness in single target and up to 4x effectiveness in AOE scenarios is slightly silly
slate shard
3s cd to do 250% damage on a lc ability is crazy
calm acorn
yeah
calm acorn
quickdraw is strong but not that dumb
calm acorn
they could also just nerf quickdraw
they could also just remove bloodhounds
i keep on realizing that they could really just remove bloodhounds and restore peace
rare spoke
i keep on realizing that they could really just remove bloodhounds and restore p...
Then ranger is shit
Making a new abil would be better but harder
rare spoke
would be balanced
Not rly
Hunter gets a lot of tools from charms and ranger just solely relies on that
I do think split bounce charm could be higher co
But laurel is fine imo
granite plinth
i keep on realizing that they could really just remove bloodhounds and restore p...
Bloodhound exists because tm wants qd to fire that fast, it's not going away. It's not niche or little-known enough to have not been deliberated upon at length, especially given how xbows are balanced around it
I suppose it's fine to exist as a charm instead of baseline r3 scaling "so that you can opt to instead be a melee ranger"
full plaza
it could at least nerf the damage more
past cargo
make it 3* -50% dmg no other stats
carmine thorn
Bloodhound exists because tm wants qd to fire that fast, it's not going away. It...
so that's why crossbows are unabashedly shit for people without Quickdraw by comparison
calm acorn
yeah nah
necroing a little bit here ig
but vro split arrow is actually broken
and im tired of denying it in any form
it is literally just a passive insanely goated quake
slate drift
nah, we should be able to use split arrow and quickshot at the same time
north crescent
litterally only downside of volley compared to other aoe abilities is a small vertical hitbox (split arrow kinda fixes it)
gleaming bane
idk
volley is pretty iconic
north crescent
it is
calm junco
litterally only downside of volley compared to other aoe abilities is a small ve...
No infinite pierce, no hitting through blocks, and yes vertical hitbox is size of an arrow
dreamy lichen
Does.. Split arrow work with volley..?
small flax
volley (u) is the one raising some eyebrows
Yeah honestly I was surprised when I finally realized that 360 volley was the U effect
I haven't played Scout in a bit now, but certainly seems pretty strong.
gleaming bane
honestly I think if hexfall don't spawn mob
- in a 360 degree manner when we have 360 volley
- only has 1 wave when volley hits 1 time
- fits volley cd perfectly
it'd make volley u a lot less problematic
dreamy lichen
I mean the arena is a circle..
It'd make much more sense if there were more than one wave at a time
So like the totems just keep sending out mobs like 2-4 more times
full plaza
make the totems pulse their mobs out in a random order, making 8 waves of 3-4 mobs each about 1s apart
hoary pine
hexfall's arenas are also flat, volley u is a lot less powerful if there are stairs all around you
calm acorn
what if volley is gone
It's 360 that makes it so busted
And hycenea is genuinely made for volley like I don't know
worldly cloud
Frost nova is 360 and fucking sucks 
Why is volley allowed be 360 angle with more range, more dmg and less cooldown
umbral orchid
I think that hyc was just inadvertently made solely to let scout shine
dreamy lichen
I mean, not really, other than the fact it coincidentally had an arena that made it very easy to volley (it's a circle sir), scout is just too good at clearing and dpsing right now
north crescent
No infinite pierce, no hitting through blocks, and yes vertical hitbox is size o...
the problem is that these downsides are rarely meaningful. most of the time while clearing ya wont need to be pierce more than 2 mobs, they are likely on the same y lv and blocks... well yeah
calm junco
the problem is that these downsides are rarely meaningful. most of the time whil...
There is a really meaningful downside in having to use actual good base damage weapon for it if you want it to do damage
signal current
I mean, not really, other than the fact it coincidentally had an arena that made...
Na
calm junco
Pierce through more than 2 mobs well not that common yea
full plaza
There is a really meaningful downside in having to use actual good base damage w...
why is that a downside
wouldn't you be using high damage weapons regardless
full plaza
ah
calm junco
But we're talking about overall scout
Blocks do block arrows indeed depending on poi or dungeon design
And there are 1 block tall mobs
That volley on eye level misses
And really other aoe skills dont really have downsides either
Mage is just in urgent need of a buff
full plaza
i wonder - how would you feel about a volley (u) which is just volley 2 but in a cone
that way you get the feeling of bam lots of arrows but you still have to aim in a direction
it's "fuck everything in that direction in particular" vs the current "fuck everything around me"
north crescent
There is a really meaningful downside in having to use actual good base damage w...
meanwhile other classes cant even change the base
having a good base litterally costs one hotbar slot
in r2 it might aswell be ire
calm junco
Hotbar slots aren't free you know
Volley isn't the bonkers damage it had pre additive
calm junco
i wonder - how would you feel about a volley (u) which is just volley 2 but in a...
That works
slate drift
if any class is to have 0 AOE it should be the long ranged class, since its able to be completely safe from 80% of the enemies in the game but I digress
scout having AOE is fine, but the problem is that volley is all of (base) scouts AOE packaged into 1 super skill. So it ends up being really over tuned. Things would be healthier if scout had to pair multiple AOE abitlies together to clear.
past cargo
Erm, actually, scout has two AOE skills
Wind bomb does a large AOE and has a short cooldown like volley
past trout
I'm sure the four Wind Bomb enjoyers will delight in their skill being mentioned
As a proud Harrakfar's Roar enjoyer, yeah Wind Bomb sure is an ability
simple radish
What is wind bomb meant to be really
past cargo
I sure do love an ability that doesn't work on half the delve mobs and when it does work it makes me aim upwards so volley can't even hit them and I have trouble aiming at mobs in midair
don't worry it does like 10 damage and I get a 20% damage boost
past trout
What is wind bomb meant to be really
A damage buff pre-additive
past cargo
What is wind bomb meant to be really
I feel like it's supposed to reward you for hitting skillful shots but it just. Does barely anything
calm acorn
What is wind bomb meant to be really
cc
thats it ig
it does its job but CC has such niche uses that idk
i mean i think its fine personally
should be low priority on the rework radar
good CC for rod, gallery, and just any other content where the ads really are just too much
past cargo
I wish we had usage statistics for each skill
calm acorn
they just need to condense skills and add new ones really
swift cuts + sharpshooter for sure
agility
- swiftness
eagle eye damage might as well just be put on volley and eagle eye is removed
past cargo
Hitting an enemy with a projectile gives +6% melee damage for 8 seconds. Hitting an enemy with a fully charged melee attack gives +8% projectile damage for 8 seconds
past cargo
eagle eye damage might as well just be put on volley and eagle eye is removed
I'm glad to see that volley is still underpowered and needed another buff
calm acorn
i meeeann
they could just remove 360 volley
its really that shrimple
but they just refuse to idk
karmic coral
shrimply make 360 volley encore volley but with like 1 second between casts instead of 5
past cargo
double DPS enhancement 
karmic coral
still better then 360
past cargo
Not wrong
karmic coral
also what else can you give volley other then more dmg lol
pull a wynn and make it one arrow?
one beam*
calm acorn
pull a wynn and make it one arrow?
enhancement shouldnt be a tradeoff
and theres a lot of ideas
past cargo
status effects some small cc
calm acorn
i have an entire thread dedicated to this conversation
it was already talked about it for the most part
past cargo
bonus damage straight up just an extra bit of damage
simple radish
I think everyone knows it needs to be changed
calm acorn
is that a dev confirmation its gonna get changed eventually at least
past trout
calm acorn
cuz idk on scout devs have been so goddamn unresponsive its infuriating
rigid sail
yap thread
rigid sail
^
calm acorn
idk
simple radish
Hate when devs are transparent
rigid sail
hello frozen earth
past trout
Hate when devs are transparent
TRUE
simple radish
Hello the az 1
past trout
i want to decipher everything like a mystery novel
karmic coral
people have said scout needs changing for like years i think if there was a simple way to do it it would have been done
past cargo
Hate when devs are transparent
Stop showing me everything you're going to do I hate it when you share your thoughts and ideas >:(
calm acorn
people have said scout needs changing for like years i think if there was a simp...
not for years
nobody gave a shit about ranger until hycenea
rigid sail
delete scout and turn mage earrows into the new scout
calm acorn
like people knew it was good but no one was angry about it
simple radish
Stop showing me everything you're going to do I hate it when you share your thou...
Activated prepared chaining attack
simple radish
nobody gave a shit about ranger until hycenea
Hasn't quickdraw always been silly since forever
past cargo
yes
green coral
Hate when devs are transparent
YOU HATE WHEN THE DEVS ARE TRANS????
calm acorn
Hasn't quickdraw always been silly since forever
yeah but not in the spotlight
green coral
wtf......
past cargo
quickdraw: ruining cool projectile weapon ideas since 1999
calm acorn
i will still stand by my opinion that quickdraw is enabling slower weapons more then worsening them
past cargo
they shouldn't need to be "enabled" 
calm acorn
nobody gonna use slow weapons if quickdraw is killed vro
no matter how much they wanna buff them unless its something mechanical
past cargo
they should work well but have drawback of, well, slowness
simple radish
Wouldn't that allow them to be stronger
past cargo
they should work well but have drawback of, well, slowness
without quickdraw's input
calm acorn
no matter how much they wanna buff them unless its something mechanical
t i mean maybe im wrong i am wrong a lot honestly
but at most what could slow crossbows get across them?
green coral
if they get stronger I think people will just use it for volley
calm acorn
more base dmg???
green coral
and call it a day
karmic coral
even IF slow weapons got a buff from quickdraw changes that just makes pred strike the new OP scaling thing
simple radish
Also sometimes you have an idea on what to do and everything but it just never makes it through The Process
past cargo
even IF slow weapons got a buff from quickdraw changes that just makes pred stri...
The cap in question
past cargo
And yeah scout also has the problem of just. Being able to use any weapon as a casting tool
karmic coral
can we PLS shoot the cap now that addative is here
also foxes would go crazy with dmg buffs to weapons
calm acorn
yeah so the cap just amkes them pointless even further
if there is a cap on pred strike dmg theres no point in using higher base dmg weapons for it
past cargo
since every ability scales off proj damage and proj damage only (please change this) scout can just use bis dps and cast all skills with highest damage
calm acorn
at least if the lower-mid dmg can already hit a high number
calm acorn
since every ability scales off proj damage and proj damage only (please change t...
what does this mean?
u want it scale off attack??
past cargo
it already does?
calm acorn
or do u mean base proj dmg on weapons
past cargo
Or, also make ability cooldowns scale with firing speed
Unchanged at bow level firing speed
calm acorn
well i think faster weapons might become meta at that rate
karmic coral
that sounds like a NIGHTMARE to code
past trout
Or, also make ability cooldowns scale with firing speed
you are banned from suggesting things now
rigid sail
Buff all classes to have as much range an damage as scout
The wynn skybloxk and telos route
calm acorn
Buff all classes to have as much range an damage as scout
The wynn skybloxk and ...
wynncraft doesnt go that route really
unless its a caster
past cargo
you know what classes can use weapons solely as casting sticks
?
Name a class that scales off only the weapon damage
karmic coral
none?
rigid sail
Mage
past cargo
alch used to but was changed
dreamy lichen
Mage
Go to sleep the az one
You have three exams tomorrow..
Philosophy math and history..
rigid sail
Yes and i am going to fail all of them
dreamy lichen
Yes and i am going to fail all of them
So optimistic
past cargo
Though that's mostly to ensure it IS balanced when wand power is introduced
So it can scale easily
dreamy lichen
I will go to sleep now good night
rigid sail
What if piercing and multishot was turned into more damage
past cargo
Oh yeah
Piercing on quickdraw
Why does quickdraw get a 0.5x cooldown and the ability to pierce through an enemy for level 2 that's such a huge upgrade
rigid sail
True..
simple radish
Insert scout copypasta
calm acorn
yknow
it was balanced and arguably underwhelming
until bloodhounds got added
i think r3 has so manny mobs the cooldown does need to be lower but not -50 vro
-25 or somethn idk
rigid sail
If multiload didnt exist i wouldve suggested that it reloads your crossbow automatically every x s
rare spoke
ehh idk thats just such a huge change
What do u think about making split arrow for both specs
And like nuking the rest of the class and getting new thing for hunter
calm acorn
What do u think about making split arrow for both specs
idk honestly
granite plinth
If multiload didnt exist i wouldve suggested that it reloads your crossbow autom...
I'm not sure if i actually like multiload as it exists
Maybe that's because I think it's criminally underutilized
calm acorn
ill get clowned
i mean considering i see 1 blocked message i think i already did by even responding
past trout
trapper soon
past cargo
Volley -> split arrow
Hunter now must sit completely still and lay a single bear trap praying that a mob wanders into it
calm acorn
i think trapper sounds delightful
it would actually fit properly into monumenta combat
and it already exists basically in igenous
past cargo
Wynncraft trapper
Look inside
Spellspam
calm acorn
yeah...
trapper is just "bomb enhancement" not traps
in monumenta at least in lower pts i can imagine it being actually cool
although it would be pretty narrow gameplay i think??
see spawner
place trap if u feel like it
simple radish
Trapper wynncraft is funny when it was bomb spam and now is bomb spam with better summons than summoner
simple radish
You don’t really want trapping to be a main playstyle though because it’s very passive and low risk
shadow quiver
past trout
October has come
granite plinth
You don’t really want trapping to be a main playstyle though because it’s very p...
Totem moment
past trout
You don’t really want trapping to be a main playstyle though because it’s very p...
So perfect for a Scout spec 
simple radish
Especially in monumenta when spawners are glowing targets to throw all your traps at
calm acorn
What if the traps did ignorable emg and focused on effecys
Dmg
Effects
I hate mobile
Yknow like a pull or push trap
Maybe a weakening or slowing trap idk
past trout
Wind Bomb u
calm acorn
It's just ideas
past cargo
Turn quickdraw into wind blast
north crescent
Maybe a weakening or slowing trap idk
spring trap đź‘Ť
oneshot any unit up to 25 weight
or smt
past trout
hog rider
calm acorn
Depends on how they implement it
rare spoke
Depends on how they implement it
Wait wait wait
I might have autism
But what if quickdraw was basically just multiload
This probably sounds shit
And is
Hmm how would it work for tridents and tho Ig not
past cargo
Just insta reset throw cooldown
past cargo
Oh that's easy, just make it instantly fire on left cli-
full plaza
enhancement shouldnt be a tradeoff
Amplifying Hex (u):
dreamy lichen
it cancels out with that charm
calm acorn
I think people are crying a little too much
calm acorn
it cancels out with that charm
Yeah idk ngl
dreamy lichen
who's crying this needs more of a nerf lol
calm acorn
Looks like the same genuinely
dreamy lichen
it's -43% cooldown -10% damage for 5 stars, and before it was -50% cooldown -10% damage for 5 stars
dreamy lichen
true but you have 7 charm power for 5 charm slots, idk how you can mess that up lol
gleaming bane
it's not even that bad of a nerf idk not scout main
you get a little less cd a little less damage
and 2 whole cp for maybe other stuff like another qd damage charm
past trout
I mean
Technically yeah you can offset it with Swift Quickshot but you were already using Swift Quickshot to begin with
But yeah you can jam even more quickdraw charms in the two charm power
I'd say for every ranger build that wasn't entirely centered on maximizing QD's damage, this might even be a buff
dreamy lichen
I have never used swift actually
stoic tusk
đź’€
calm junco
I have never used swift actually
That's not effective
calm junco
is the new bloodhound crest basically a -7% cooldown nerf..
This is wrong thinking
On max potential it is 1s pre and 1,5s post nerf
Which is 50% decrease of cd
Without swift 2s vs 1,5s
Those 17% are never actually 17% because how cd checks
dreamy lichen
On max potential it is 1s pre and 1,5s post nerf
What
So what you're saying is it could have gone down to 1s quickdraw pre nerf and now it's 1.5s?
That's not my point at all
calm junco
Yes
dreamy lichen
I am talking to my build it changes nothing (and for most builds)
dreamy lichen
I use the average build which afaik has no swift
Sharpshooter stack + bloodhound is not average build?
open wraith
It’s not average yeah
dreamy lichen
Amazing
calm junco
Ss stacks suck
open wraith
^
calm junco
Qd dmg is avg build
dreamy lichen
Perhaps because I was using it pre starp oint pre additive lmfao
open wraith
dreamy lichen
icic now
calm acorn
I mean I never cared enough to use quickshot in clear
Only on hycenea
And I still think quickdraw was strong
Also how does wuickdraw hit 1s???
Pre nerfs
calm junco
You seem to think everything you use is strong idk
For 1s build, its in build channel
You have 0,5s difference in most cases with swift without swift
calm acorn
Am I stupid or is that math just not adding up
open wraith
calm acorn
i always thought it was just a 10% dps boost
and didnt matter that much in clear
jeez
maybe i was throwing
calm junco
I meant 0,5s different pre nerf to post nerf to clarify