#Warrior - The "Intro" Class - Feedback (and an Idea) for the Base Abilites
jaunty surge
oblique bison
perhaps even reckless
hard zealot
or maybe level 1 brute force will be level 2 WM and level 2 brute force will be level 2 brute force :D
paper temple
the sound effect is so crunchy mm
cunning hemlock
But yeah Warrior could do with something to help with range
oblique bison
bramble shell cosmetic is so awesome
oblique bison
it means +20% damage
paper temple
you don't know what the skill does?
hard zealot
I do what it does but during combat I just don't feel it
like I hear the sound effect but I still deal same/similar amount of hits
¯_(ツ)_/¯
paper temple
ionno there's a lot that goes into that subjective opinion
build enemy infusions etc
jaunty surge
What would be your opinions on the idea of a quickdraw core ability that just let's you throw a Snowball every few seconds that procs a weapon crit on a enemy you hit?
oblique bison
counter strike has a massive impact on guardian
paper temple
me personally i think i'd notice a 20% multiplier on my hits even in r1
cunning hemlock
What would be your opinions on the idea of a quickdraw core ability that just le...
It would be funny but sounds abusable in slow swing rate high damage items
paper temple
counter strike has a massive impact on guardian
yea but i think they mostly mean r1
it has nice synergy with bash which is in r1
hard zealot
build enemy infusions etc
I don't even have gear that I want to infuse yet...
oblique bison
must.. not. mention future regions
hard zealot
must.. not. mention future regions
especially since r2 is much more fun than r1
cunning hemlock
A reasonable cooldown of like 8 seconds would work well with it possibly?
hard zealot
tho I kinda am getting bored of r2 more than r1
maybe burned myself out from monumenta
😭
paper temple
perhaps
cunning hemlock
tho I kinda am getting bored of r2 more than r1
(R2 is not as peak as R1)
hard zealot
but yeah I can recommend trying out guardian with cs 2 anyway
bers dash spam
jaunty surge
A reasonable cooldown of like 8 seconds would work well with it possibly?
👍 yeah I was thinking somewhere around like the bound of 5-8 s
hard zealot
I saw your stream. Get to drawing for the rp.
my pixel art sucks I am having to pay ppl to make it for my game 😭
also
what if we go the opposite way
and double down
and have no active abilities in Warrior
remove shield bash
austere epoch
the true ctm experience
cunning hemlock
A true CTM experience
hard zealot
instead we get a 30% and 50% kbr passive
austere epoch
cunning hemlock
Warrior boomerang
paper temple
i think 1 more active basekit wouldn't hurt and might be interesting one day, to replace weapon mastery perhaps
paper temple
i disagree
hard zealot
weapon mastery is a lot of damage, especially at the beginning of the game
cunning hemlock
Since that could be turned into the main passive, not unheard of to have damage bonuses there
paper temple
the effect could be compensated through the new skill or moved to somehwere else into the class
and i mean
sterile lark
Does warrior even work without weapon mast? I feel like it doesn't
hard zealot
okay what if
WM 2 turns into passive, or WM 1 with scaling
paper temple
wouldn't it be more "interesting" to you guys to need to use an active to compensate for the passive damage being gone?
hard zealot
and
paper temple
isn't that what you're going for?
oblique bison
I want it to rely less on passive damage yeah
paper temple
...
oblique bison
effective dps can be lower for all I care, if it gets an active that can allow it slightly more burst I will gladly take it
paper temple
i wouldn't say it's "bad" just "ininteresting" and feels forced
paper temple
of course the entire class does feel balanced around spending those skillpoints
hard zealot
what was reckless swing
paper temple
and the consequences of potentially getting 2 more skillpoints could be hard to balance out
hard zealot
since I am thinking of an ability but I don't want to just do that
paper temple
reckless swing was what GB used to be on berserker
shift left click to deal 4 true damage to yourself and deal like a melee damage aoe around you
cunning hemlock
I hear it was peak
hard zealot
okay
paper temple
lvl 2 had a passive which actually made it decent
dealing more damage when below half health or smth
paper temple
I hear it was peak
you may have heard wrong
hard zealot
so what if there was an ability that would make a kind of wave
cunning hemlock
you may have heard wrong
Cocopad…
paper temple
reckless tinted glasses
sleek ginkgo
I hear it was peak
people deleting headless horsemen in seconds with it
cunning hemlock
people deleting headless horsemen in seconds with it
I already know about the massacre
paper temple
**feel** does not equal **be**
in weapon mastery's case it really is a case of "be"
not sure how many people aren't putting 2 points into it (i don't in r3 guardian oddly)
strange saffron
Do I need to say anything here or is the conversation absolved
oblique bison
it would be appreciated
cunning hemlock
It would
oblique bison
most of us are on the same page but that does not account for any class devs or the berserker god himself
strange saffron
I am going to preface this by saying that any hard rework to warrior is going to be rejected no matter how good of an idea people think it is
However, I wont deny warrior has a bloat of passives compared to other classes, but I also don’t think it’s a bad thing outside of the actual class passive itself which is pretty universally agreed upon to do squat
And I think the passives issue only massively affects R1 in that it’s just meant to be slower paced, and just gives the player less tools overall, Cleric is another example where the aforementioned “Actives that feel like passives” is pretty apparent
The difference probably being that warrior’s passives don’t have any visual or audio tell for their purposes
Cbless and Rain having particles helps a lot there
strange saffron
So it’s not as much as the passives aren’t doing their job, they just kinda need a better tell
paper temple
i think counterstrike having a particle or smth on the enemy would be neat
oblique bison
The difference probably being that warrior’s passives don’t have any visual or a...
I would say it is more so that they are, directly taken from my own thread, unconditional and do not rely on anything, they are simply constant
strange saffron
WM is kind of an outlier but its still applicable
paper temple
something like toughness or brute force are very obvious
strange saffron
The issue with making those true passives free is bloating the power level of warrior IMO
paper temple
riposte is very obvious
paper temple
The issue with making those true passives free is bloating the power level of wa...
yeah i mentioned this
strange saffron
And compounding passives ends up with something like scout
where all the power is held in a single skill
paper temple
tbf it depends on how it is done
and i really only think weapon mastery would be the only decent candidate for such treatment if anything
austere epoch
i think a good start would be redoing the passive
and then the uh
enhancements
for some of the base abilities
oblique bison
brute force is certainly not suited for the class passive
weapon mastery is the only candidate of the existing ones imo
strange saffron
If the message to me is "Replace current passive with WM, make WM's old held position an active so R1 warrior is more interesting" then you'd have a harder time convincing others than me
oblique bison
I think that is simply an idea we are in favor of
The issue is the most important and that is what the passive is, not so much what we want it to be
austere epoch
^
the idea is "change the passive"
i dont care how its done
just make it not 20% kbr 
oblique bison
I still play warrior and will continue to do so, if nothing is changed about its passive abilities I'm not going to complain for eternity
austere epoch
^
sleek ginkgo
if nothing else make the passive give kbr to nearby players too 
oblique bison
moving WM to the passive in a weaker form is like killing 2 birds with 1 stone except you only really needed to kill 1 of them 🐈
weary heron
can we ban fanon classes
strange saffron
I don't dislike hearing people's rework ideas, just gets a little old is all.
oblique bison
We all want to have our own way
which I assume is a big reason balancing is not for everyone 
Is it possible to reduce shield breaking time in %s? I think it has been suggested as a delve infusion or something before but that could be a pretty cool warrior passive
austere epoch
that would be a cool passive
"If an Axe breaks your shield, disarm the non-boss mob and stun it for 3 seconds. If Magic breaks your shield, reduce the break duration by 50%."
tame pike
for the point against swords, the two effects that swords do have on warrior feel significant enough in r1 that i dont see singling them out being very valid? (especially riposte double damage)
and also did i misread or do none of the changes talk about this ever again
austere epoch
i.e axe is now stuck in your shield and you rip it out of their hands
austere epoch
for the point against swords, the two effects that swords do have on warrior fee...
its only singled out cause axe riposte is ass lol
tame pike
well thats how the cards were drawn
tribal ruin
Riposte as a passive aoe cleave with an axe would feel sooo nice
tribal ruin
it’s not per hit
signal nymph
warrior boring in r1 and then becomes insane r2 and onwards
strange saffron
I think he means berserker and not guardian
strange saffron
Although guardian R2 is still probably better
heady edge
You say this only because you play telum!!
austere epoch
You say this only because you play telum!!
as if youd ever consider using any other sword in R3
cogblade fucking sucks
tribal ruin
cogblade was good back in the day
heady edge
Shrimply play axe
golden tendon
hard vigil
R1 Warrior has always just been Vanilla+
You only need to be competent at vanilla combat to be proficient with Warrior
The actual class passive being placebo unless you specifically build for it is certainly an issue though
strange saffron
The actual class passive being placebo unless you specifically build for it is c...
I don’t think you can particularly build around 2 knockback resistance honestly
It’s just kind of a stat that’s there
hard vigil
You pick up that random fucking rock in r1 that has 8 kbr I guess
hard vigil
Unfortunately without a full 10 kbr you occasionally get sent to the moon by random mobs
hard vigil
Kbr function challenge
paper temple
Playing guardian challenge (every other hit has the chance of being interrupted)
signal nymph
if warrior got a new passive what'd it even be
heady edge
75% extra damage duh
hard vigil
creative flight
austere epoch
if warrior got a new passive what'd it even be
passive steadfast and steadfast but damage
at lower efficacy
hard vigil
it'd have to be at irrelevant levels to be in line with the other class passives
austere epoch
it does pair well with toughness enhancement and fits it's theme
austere epoch
it'd have to be at irrelevant levels to be in line with the other class passives
"irrelevant levels"
do i need to bring up the elephant and the blue whale in the room
cunning hemlock
if warrior got a new passive what'd it even be
Reflexes but for damage you deal
hard vigil
Yes I am aware that the current kbr is irrelevant
austere epoch
class passives are ALL OVER the place
like you have alch which just lets the class function
warrior
cunning hemlock
Dethroner
austere epoch
and then you have shit like Warlock and Rogue lmao
cunning hemlock
Versatile
heady edge
You got rogue with dethroner and scout with that cool passive
cunning hemlock
Uh Channeling which kinda just exists, would be cool if Melee mage was viable
hard vigil
Rogue's abilities are balanced around having that damage boost from the passive. If the warrior passive is something that grants damage then the abilities are going to get directly nerfed to compensate
heady edge
The idea of stats changing when health is decreasing is a cool idea but that's like kinda just toughness (u)
austere epoch
well what else are you gonna do
heady edge
well what else are you gonna do
75% dama-
hard vigil
it'd probably be easiest to shift some of Weapon Mastery into the passive and nerf only that
instead of adding base steadfast which will likely end up nerfing multiple abilities
austere epoch
so we've gone from a very bad passive to effectively no passive
heady edge
Is that really a cool idea given the warrior passive issue has been brought up multiple times
austere epoch
(stats moved from WM to passive)
austere epoch
food night
heady edge
Oh god
austere epoch
so we've gone from a very bad passive to effectively no passive
and don't tell me "you get stats now without taking WM!"
nobody runs warrior without WM
cunning hemlock
so we've gone from a very bad passive to effectively no passive
You get stats without needing to take Weapon Mastery!
austere epoch
personally, since warrior is the "tank" melee class some kind of defensive passive would be nice
hard vigil
Reduced Shield Stun duration would be cool
hard vigil
yeah something a bit simpler than that would be better I'd think
probably just a flat "your shield is stunned for x% less time"
austere epoch
shield breaking doesnt become a huge issue until region 3
very very few axe and spell mobs in R1
untold lava
most passives on classes currently are pretty nothing burger so i feel like having a very impactful passive should only be on classes that play around it in some way like rogue somewhat
adding/changing a passive on a class is basically just a buff
austere epoch
also, frozen just did that shield duration global buff
untold lava
youre suggested shield passive seems alright in the sense that its not crazy strong
heat would be much better as like an ability for a tailored class or a spec skill. Sort of like how arcanist gets sages insight or how rogue gets vicious combos. Those are very impactful passives like what heat is intended to be but they only really work because the class is designed around them in a way
oblique bison
I do really like reduced shield stun time I think it's one that the player will notice and feel the impact of but won't gain any significant gameplay boost from
which is honestly fine since I think both a rework and buff is asking for quite a lot (2 kbr)
I also agree that it should be purely reduced shield break and not include some other mob stun condition
last geyser
That would be a nice warrior passive but shields
tribal ruin
shield usage creates skill issue
oblique bison
shieldless warrior players can cope .. I bet they use a mainhand one anyway …
last geyser
If anything I would just make it a skill check
When you block a shield-breaking attack within the first 0.75s of shielding, reduce the shield break duration by 40%
Reaction shield go
oblique bison
intentionally trying to get into that threshold feels weird sometimes in gameplay from experience with shield bash u
I don't really like having a skill check in a passive
paper temple
When you block a shield-breaking attack within the first 0.75s of shielding, red...
that would be really good i'd enjoy that a lot
heady edge
Parrying is annoying and has me spam clicking the shield (on offhand at least)
But either way it's too much of a gimmick to have as a passive
paper temple
Idk it seems reasonable to me the duration is really generous
oblique bison
yeah I basically agree with what trollsilver said
I'd be fine with a stronger boost if within a given time and then a weaker reduction if not
but for the sake of simplicity I prefer no skill check
untold lava
0.75s is pretty generous for a shielding time, to the point where changing it to every shield break seems reasonable
theres not really a situation where ur constantly shielding for more than 1 second
unless ur like low in a corner or something in which case if ur shield breaks u most likely die
jaunty surge
I don't think the issue with a parry timer is the feasibility of it rather than it going against the idea of being a class "passive"
Every current passive(excepting for alchemist) is some effect you wouldn't be actively thinking about while in gameplay that still nonetheless helps give the class a bit of flavor and identity
heady edge
But either way it's too much of a gimmick to have as a passive
That's also a good point, and goes along with this one