#Why I support current MW4 numbers and is skeptical about new MW4 changes

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

strange belfry
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Ok I know is this going to be very controversial but hear me out.
I know people complain about MW4 not giving the stat boost they wanted despite the admittedly high cost of masterworking, but I think making masterwork improvements bigger will create more problems then it solves.
I would much rather perfer they revert the delve scaling change (because lets admit, current delve scaling is fucked) and lower MW4 cost instead of widening masterwork gaps, since this change will just create a bad precedent. People will keep asking for the same treatment for MW5 and MW6 which will imo further the problems stated.
In the current system, making masterwork gap bigger have two main problems.

  1. Power Creep
    If every tier results in a big jump in power level, this is going to cause a pretty big inflation in numbers, beyond "I don't like big numbers" this would also mean we have to re-balance a lot of stuff. After all, mobs will be adjusted along with items so in the end it doesn't even matter and the game just becomes skyblock.
    Additionally, if stats are handed out like candy it might diminish the unique niche of some items. Haven't seen the adjustments so I don't want to make decisions so quickly, but for example if all potion gets +2 radius in the end of masterworking, it would make alch bags a lot less unique since the difference between 2.5 and 3 matters more than difference of 4.5 and 5 imo.
  2. Catching Up
    This is a more important issue imo. If the gap between tiers are bigger, it also creates another problem, new players will have a lot harder time (or straight up impossible) doing delves as delves are always balanced around end game (max masterworks). Since so many stuff can be delved (and relies on it) in current content this is rather concerning. Plus, if people wants to try out new gear before masterworking, it would also be harder to see the performance of a low tier item. I honestly think delves are just introduced too early in r3 (since its supposed to be end game content) and kinda ruins the point of progression (now starpoint pois are as hard as keep ones).
    I understand the decision is already made but I do hope the devs give more consideration around this.
frigid widget
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devs probably are already thinking of newer players but i do think the rebalancing of mw4 should keep them in mind

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i have a friend who got all the way to brown and then quit because they couldn’t deal with the mobs

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came back for one day, borrowed a fully masterworked set, steamrolled brown, returned set, quit forever

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i think balancing the game around endgame players will simply prevent more endgame players

whole hatch
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i completely agree that delve scaling should be reverted, making all delve content more difficult because of endgame gear getting stronger is unfair when there isnt enough non delved content to get endgame gear

visual dagger
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reposting from a similar thread

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Blue and brown are surprisingly 2/5 difficulty dungeons which in the future is going to be so far from fitting when players new to R3 try out the first dungeon delves with their ~2 or 3 star masterworked gear.
I believe content should be balanced, including delves to an extent, around the masterwork stars you are most likely to reach in that area before you move on. Some might say this makes certain pieces of content "too easy to delve" with higher stars, but there should always be room for easier content, no? Otherwise players will be trapped with the builds they started with, and experimenting with new classes will be 10x the effort it is in R1 and R2.
If delving a wolfswood poi in the future will make mobs match those from pois in a future expansion, then it will be a nightmare to try and get into delves early on. There's also the problem of masterwork costing delve mats - this is seen in exalted dungeons already, and other content will likely have it too in the future, as seen in the masterwork teaser. If delves are balanced around masterwork stars that require delve mats to reach... how are people going to get those masterwork stars?

strange belfry
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delves are introduced too early in r3 imo

visual dagger
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locking delves behind R3 monument completion is a bad idea I think

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doesn't fit with how everything is going

strange belfry
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Issue being delves are designed as end game content

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so it have problems intergrating itself in entire r3 progression

mental lava
visual dagger
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you don't need to do delve bounties for godtrees yknow

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they do speed up the process though

mental lava
scenic stratus
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just have delve mobs scale to your average mw level pepega

strange belfry
humble coyote
reef cosmos
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We are aware of your second point being an issue and are looking at solutions internally, but it likely won’t be addressed until future masterwork levels. Additionally we’ll do a review of the delve scaling changes either later this month or next month once things become a bit more stable.

For some more info, the re-balancing has had three key goals)

  1. Increase the power to be consistent with other masterwork levels. To this extent, you shouldn’t expect every item to be buffed, the ones that are most likely to receive a straight buff are the ones that need it.
  2. Give more variety to the upgrades, we noticed a large portion of the upgrades just gave 0.5 armor or agility, in particular we looked at changing some of these for items that have maybe had similarly “boring” upgrades for multiple masterwork levels in a row. This should hopefully balance out the niches of the item in the long-term.
  3. Review some of the upgrades that feel unsatisfying, I won’t name any specific examples, but some upgrades giving 2% of a stat/1 KBR doesn’t necessarily feel good, and makes justifying actually spending to increase the masterwork difficult. Don’t expect every item that got this sort of treatment originally to change, but it’s a priority of mine to make sure that increasing your masterwork at least feels worth the cost, it’s probably inevitable that there will still be a few that feel disappointing though.
mental lava
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the calculator does NOT like golemworn treads lmao

hot tusk
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I fully expect same half an armor point changes for mws that dont change rarity and from what ive seen its the attitude most people took

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Anyway i agree with chiinox on this one, the changes should not be boring at the very least no matter which mw level, especially one as meanigful as artifact tier

hot tusk
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In the first place i feel like a new player coming to r3 should treat delves the same as they did in r1 and r2 - something to do once they progress more

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A player that just came to r2 would start doing r2 delves, a player that just came to r3 would do r2 delves

visual dagger
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we could also take an alternative route, and say instead of making earning money less difficult, make masterworking cost less

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the cost of masterworking is unnecessarily high

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if I want to get my for example brand new epoch hammer (or any other mw0 item, which the first rares a player gets will be) up to mw4 so I can start doing delves, I'd need 15 HAR, 4 Wolfswood Fragments, 1 Pulsating Diamond

hot tusk
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Also, what delve mats are needed for progression?

visual dagger
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and that is for 1 (one) item

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with mw4 being the balance level for delves

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the cost of getting gear up to standards with delve mobs is going to cost a fortune

hot tusk
visual dagger
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when more masterwork stars become available

hot tusk
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I dont think thats really an issue yet

visual dagger
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it will be

hot tusk
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Exalteds have mats from its base dungeon

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Just do it, and base version also gives little but some mats

visual dagger
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that's only exalteds

hot tusk
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If there was a way to get delve mats on a level where you are expected to have mw stars that need delve mats that really wouldnt be an issue

visual dagger
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well, there isn't

river dawn
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ngl mw4s are kinda just the same thing as a lot of mw2s and mw3s already were, and i was fine with them, although i'm also okay with making them more meaningful since theyre the first artifact tier masterwork upgrade. was also lame how they nerfed a bunch of existing mw3s just to have the mw4s be the same as the old version instead of doing anything new and meaningful with those items. i'm worried there will be power creep with the changes, but i have faith TM will do it right

strange belfry
hot tusk
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As long as the issue is addresed til we actually need it itd be fine

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If its not id complain

mental lava
strange belfry
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bigger issue with the nerfs tbh

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some are just devs wake up and choose to do the funny

hot tusk
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calculator blast

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i feel like theres a problem of people recieving nerfs much more negatively than buffs unless those buffs make their builds in particular "not meta"

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and then balance devs get hate no matter what they do

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well not a topic for this thread

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i personally wouldnt want to be a blance dev with all that pressure lol

reef cosmos
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you should discuss more about how much you love the month of buffs at the start of December instead of the month of nerfs at the start of November smh

little shoal
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There’re actually quite some items that I wanted to try out this time
Including tact axe (waiting for first strike charm fix)
Although I suppose it’s a little off topic

scenic stratus
glacial gate
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If there was a midgame content to fill the gap between base difficulty and delve content then I think the catch up criticism would be resolved, but that's a big ask.

I think the prices are a little unfortunate but are something inevitable if the tiers of Epic and Legendary are to live up to their title and something to strive towards, but that invites another question of if players should be asked to gather that much currency/resources to be on "balanced terms" for delves

winter rampart
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One possible improvement could be to just adjust the per-point scaling of Delves themselves, so at 5-10 points it's weaker than the current scaling and stays at around this new weakened level, but ramps up past that, giving people with weaker gear a spot between non-delve and "full-delve."
And just adjust loot rates to reflect this, so people in all Epics+ have an incentive to go for higher-pt Delves.

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This method would require a lot less work than say trying to create an entirely new intermediary system between non-Delves and Delves.

scenic stratus
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maybe we have delves scale past 25 pts in r3

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wait that doesn't fix anything

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25pt would be trivial for mw7

strange belfry
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delves are meant to make all end game content same in difficulty

scenic stratus
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I don't think that goal works at the same time as masterwork progression

strange belfry
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feels like delves gets introduced too early

haughty sandal
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I mean yeah delves in r1 and r2 r unlocked after completing the monument, but i think a lot of these progression issues just exist so us as the players here for launch and progression of r3 can actually have fun, i think down the line progression will be improved but i would rather they also focus on rn while we r actually playing the game as content releases

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After seeing other builds get 2 kbr and 1 agility i realized most mw4 just suck and scout got lucky, def agree that mw4 needs buffs for a majority of items