Also dreads are CCimmune so you can't knock them away with UA
#Alchemist
chilly tiger
static plaza
or just yk
turn the kb off
static plaza
oooh
scattered mobs
chilly tiger
Spiders are hardly the issue for me, it's the fact that I need to fight a dread/elite for 10-20 seconds while dealin with everything else
because the damage doesn't do much
coral pecan
you tried forum bag yet?
chilly tiger
I tried it out, it helps
but it also kind of rubs me the wrong way that the bare minimum viable damage for alch is also the highest possible damage for alch
chilly tiger
Because lets be real, you aren't going to do anything with R1 alch with anything but Brimstone, you aren't going to do anything in R2 without Nihilo Proof, and you aren't going to do anything in R3 without Moltencopper Pot
coral pecan
Because lets be real, you aren't going to do anything with R1 alch with anything...
Willows bag might be interesting
chilly tiger
It'd be if like, old Fgcrusher was the only way to play warrior, there were no other choices (which is somewhat accurate but at least using non-fgcrusher didn't get you killed.. as much)
coral pecan
Sounds about right tho about bag options
I think other bags need to be closer damage wise
chilly tiger
Yeah, in R1 again I don't think it's as big of an issue since it's not like R1 has "varied" damage options either (You will run C'watchers or Jungle's Requiem and you will like it)
but it feels like 10 should be the "baseline" r2 pot damage for something like purple bag (nihilo proof either being much higher and 2-handed or more focused with smaller aoe), and a similar thing with R3 and base 12
Like we got a whole bunch of new pots with cool fancy enchants but it turns out that the only options we've actually got are the 3 boring basic pots that make alch function as a class
I was working on this but i'm lazy and tired
coral pecan
The issue right now is that
extensive damage multiplication
means that its hard buffing other bags
static plaza
im just gonna say it
whats the point of making alch have an item progression when youre just gonna throw out the last pot and use the next
mage has multiple options on multiple levels of progression
but unless youre in r3 (and even then you're still using brown lets be honest) youre going from 1 pot to the next until you have the objectively best one
ancient warren
extensive damage multiplication
I suggested a rework to make damage buffs additive internally
chilly tiger
I suggested a rework to make damage buffs additive internally
👀
ancient warren
generally seems to be well received, but would take balancing effort to re-balance all buffs
chilly tiger
Would this be like, every single buff is all additive (like, FoL would be directly additive with Magic damage% on armor) or would there be like "groups" of multipliers
like Armor/External Buffs/Class Abilities
ancient warren
equipment should probably stay multiplicative
chilly tiger
equipment should probably stay multiplicative
I'm interested, sounds like a neat change.
ancient warren
if edd relies on stacking buffs I guess it would be heavily affected
chilly tiger
big 👍 from me
if edd relies on stacking buffs the 5 people who care about the EDD leaderboard can figure out how to break the game in other ways
ancient warren
plus all resistance buffs will remain multiplicative
(would be great to add two 50% damage resistances 😛 )
distant junco
Imagine 100% dr 
Rn we have gear/infusion/delve infusion/skill/potion/disc/
A lot work if that happens
chilly tiger
I'd be interested in seeing a world where the categories are basically like
Gear/Infusion/Class Buffs/Potions or Disks or Food or Etc, where each category is multiplicative with a different category but additive within the same one
but Gear / Other is fine too
ancient warren
I'd be interested in seeing a world where the categories are basically like
Gear...
main issue with this is several classes having multiple buffs
and reducing them all to just one would be bland
unless you mean like additive inside each category
oh i should learn to read lol 
it's much more intuitive to make everything work the same i think
chilly tiger
yeah that's totally fair
Gear/Other seems very valid
Honestly would love to see a change like that, would make group play more challenging since you don't just stack 1000 buffs and steamroll everything
chilly tiger
I do think for the most part, most players play with basically only 2-3 buffs active at once, so this probably would barely affect them, it'd just bring exploitative/broken techniques down
barren phoenix
yeah
it would even out the playing field more and it would make it easier to balance so that the casual players still find it enjoyable
and it cant be broken much by hyperoptimized buff stacking
coral pecan
it would even out the playing field more and it would make it easier to balance ...
this was my main concern, I was having an absolute blast, but I'm a hardcore/sweaty player who runs endgame content at beyond intended difficulty
coral pecan
I suggested a rework to make damage buffs additive internally
I've also been in favor of that, it gets too much with base damage, buffs and infusions
When I dragged this stinker in @fossil vault it was still fun to play
chilly tiger
I run alch with no buffs (I never drink pots) and I can't sustain the pots for energizing so I basically just have FoL and Bezoar as my only damage sources
it is tragic and deeply suboptimal and I would love it if everyone was deeply suboptimal along with me
coral pecan
it is tragic and deeply suboptimal and I would love it if everyone was deeply su...
translation: skill issue (and bag)
I ran buffless
even disabled patron buffs
during my testing so its like
chilly tiger
I'm sorry I am a little loot gremlin and I like to stash all my pots into my wall of potion barrels
coral pecan
damage bag or fold
coral pecan
I'm sorry I am a little loot gremlin and I like to stash all my pots into my wal...
I had one of my close friends raid my plot because of pots that have literally collected dust for 2 years
even the kaul pots
fossil vault
I had one of my close friends raid my plot because of pots that have literally c...
whomsvt
distant junco
hey moderator someon said bad words......oh
fierce wasp
Rereading over panacea- that's a pretty awesome dot wow
fierce wasp
It's far up in chat, but I agree on damage distribution- losing a point or two of damage on a mainhand sword for Regen is an acceptable tradeoff, but when your values are this low and you completely depend on the base damage for all of your skills, it's completely unviable
I have a very vested interest in Regen bag for taboo, but looking at it after a night's rest, I can't see how taking a 20% damage cut multiplier allows me to create a more appealing build
Does AA behave well underwater?
surreal moat
Has the new buff change r1 alch much??
fierce wasp
Reverie bag has 22.2% more damage so maybe
surreal moat
Oh!! Okay
The past updates have made me a bit wary to play so I’m hoping I don’t have to like switch armor or anything
coral pecan
The past updates have made me a bit wary to play so I’m hoping I don’t have to l...
I tried with 30% magic damage in r1 with little infusions
(pers 8)
Alch shreds in that environment
surreal moat
oh alright neat
midnight hemlock
I think the best way to test all classes is to get 14 people together to each play 1 spec on the same content starting at the same time and then seeing who finishes first. Optimal testing would be each player using each spec once for 14 tests, but that’s harder to group together 
surreal moat
that would be interesting to watch
foggy heart
indeed
would like to participate as well but all the sweaty berserk mains would locate me and decapitate irl cause i never touched that
distant junco
I think the best way to test all classes is to get 14 people together to each pl...
Ye that’s a way
So I kind wish monumenta has council or whatever it call
To sort out feedback and suggestions , enhance them with data and truth , also feeling and emotion of community to TM.
But it’s a….trust and leak issues at some way
No public apply for beta tester
lusty sinew
I think the best way to test all classes is to get 14 people together to each pl...
it would be interesting, but also not all that accurate for balance purposes
distant junco
But it also has other issue….will really enough people to not fight each other while make some good feedback
even backend of tm sometimes has quarrel
But ye it’s just my imagination 💭
fierce wasp
People ultimately have different ideas of what is balanced
lusty sinew
the clearing capacity in X content full of smaller but more mobs is not going to match the same for Y content full of elites, and different classes are going to be faster at it because they aren't support based
distant junco
Ok on phone is pain to use calculator and switch back to discord
distant junco
7 5.5/16 10/19 12
So I’m give up to calculate numbers
fierce wasp
Some metrics I would evaluate on-
How does the class do in progression as a result of these changes
What builds are accommodated for with these changes, and is there enough viable options for the class/spec
How does the class clear in terms of speed relative to other classes?
How is the dps of the class relative to other classes?
For new skills- are there enough options to modify for charms? Should there be more? Could an archetype revolve around a heavily modified skill, and should it be supported? Does it need a lot of support?
In the niche that it competes in, what are it's main competitors? If it's a melee class, what does the class bring over other melee classes? If aoe, how does it compete against the value and options of mage or alch?
Do these changes encourage a good class identity, or are numbers/options insufficient (ie, why should I ever use base alch bag when I could use a bow for R1)
stray pawn
just here to said aa charm when
barren phoenix
proooobably next balance update?
stray pawn
yeah more thing to collect
fierce wasp
What interactions with existing enchants or utilities could become problematic?
How does the class or skill scale across regions? Does it depend too much on flat numbers and will it feel outpaced or obsoleted without help in R3, for example?
What tools does the class have to counter delve mods? Does it have any features that allow it to take on generally unfavorable delve mods?
What is it like to play with this class/build/archetype as a teammate? Does the answer change significantly depending on the class(es) it is with, and are there any problematic interactions that arise from specific comboes, in either ineffectiveness/redundancy or overpowered results?
lusty sinew
the problem with static steps like those is that it's not widely applicable
multiple of those metrics would fail miserably on a heavy support class or a tank
fierce wasp
Eternal can be the leader of council (real
Haven't thought about every single question when I'm playing or trying something but some things I'd want to consider
I did not provide direct answers or expectations for the questions, and I believe some of the questions must be considered with other questions to accurately appraise a class as a whole
lusty sinew
yea... it's just not going to be entirely possible to quantify capability without heavy exceptions, which makes it subjective anyways
i play a class in wow that is, by pure numbers, not great, but offers so much utility it is a must have in every raid and progression group
fierce wasp
Progression, build accomodations, clear speed (especially last week), the bow example listed, scaling across regions (R2 has been reported as underpowered, haven't had time to test myself yet)
All seem like questions that should have gotten more attention
The clear speed should be at some relative minimum otherwise it'll feel awful to play- clearly a 40 minute silvic quarry is unacceptable
Though for sure, more examples should be conducted to account for build variety and player skill, as well as poi diversity and the challenges different ones bring
But mostly just at a glance, if something is strikingly wrong I'd want to catch it through a wider net of questions
lusty sinew
as well as class variety in focus and design, etc etc
some specs/focuses are going to just not match the output
but come with tooling and capabilities that make them great in a team
fierce wasp
Looking at the numbers on paper, it does look like alch is still underperforming in R2 even with max damage from forum bag
Medium damage set (40% magic), persp 24, and taboo fail to 2 shot dreadlings at 12 points (20.65 damage per pot, dreadlings have 45.76). Sure you could kill after a single dot tick, but apoth doesn't have taboo, and this set is persp 24 and it's a 12 point dreadling being analyzed
Dreadling cleanup isn't the end all of balance but as an aoe class I would expect more from it in this regard as a minimum
Even UA fails to kill outright for an apoth with the same persp 24 40% magic damage set
If this was persp 0 perhaps it would be acceptable, as the fall damage would secure kills if they respected gravity, but they are cc immune (someone reported they wouldn't be blown away I believe, it's been a while since I played alch to confirm for sure), and it is the absolute strongest bag available for a 12 point situation
You would need somewhere around 60% magic damage to keep up and 2 shot the swarm with this already rather excessive situation
proven frost
I think most of the r3 alch bags (other than wolfswood and brown ) need more stats to make it a worthwhile tradeoff of damage.
fierce wasp
Regen on blue bag is definitely too expensive for its loss in damage compared to brown bag
More Regen or more damage would make it a more competitive option
chilly tiger
Has the new buff change r1 alch much??
R1 alch has always been fine and honestly compared to how alch performs in R2/R3, R1 alch is probably easily the strongest form of alch right now
Basically R1 alch has received the least significant nerf to its damage (only -20% or so), while R2 and R3 got a nearly 40% reduction and a 33% reduction respectively
I would say R2 alch currently has the hardest time, R3 alch functions but is not as power-crept as the other classes in R3, and R1 alch can breeze through delves with relative ease
sweet shell
Have people been trying keep/depths/willows bag
Mainly as harb for the earlier 2 because I dont think you can justify not having high dmg bags on apoth
heavy brook
I've tried a lot of Willows bag and without Stormborn Boots the gameplay is pretty dull
the throw speed neuters ranged gameplay
Stormborn solves the issue though so I can have some nice AoE disjoint instead of just throwing pots at my feet
Though I haven't tried Depths bag, I don't even know if I want to because there is no R2 equivalent to Stormborn Boots
and the speed is even worse
sweet shell
Asking since from testing depths and keep bags were very stupid
5 pot radius is a warcrime
Not sure if its worth the dmg loss if you can 'just aim better' but the degree to which you dont hate to put effort with them was funny
heavy brook
imo Keep bag is dead in the water because of Oversize Flask existing
chilly tiger
I remember playing with 5 pot radius in R3 pre-nerf (with the +radius charm and alch's base 4 size) and feeling it just wasn't really necessary
sweet shell
Why not go 5 pot radius if you are allowed to
chilly tiger
Because of the 25% base damage nerf
That's really the reason to not use any other bag
heavy brook
there is a charm to make up radius loss but not damage loss, so I will just keep using Brown bag with Oversize
chilly tiger
But the highest dps one
fierce wasp
Damage loss is rough
I have yet to get online to test my findings but I'm looking at medium to high damage setups and max damage bags and I'm only barely keeping up the kill speeds I'm hoping for
sweet shell
imo Keep bag is dead in the water because of Oversize Flask existing
More of a response to this, I tried using them together and the radius was hilarious, with trivium and a harb build I could have more than enough dmg
heavy brook
8.7 base vs 12 base honestly feels like monshee's judgment vs eclipse splitter
chilly tiger
Yeah, max damage bag is the bare minimum damage bag
fierce wasp
The loss in damage for side enchants or radius is just too much to not use the best damage bag
chilly tiger
Which is pretty 🥴
fierce wasp
And I'm running numbers as harb, which sounds even worse for apoth
sweet shell
I personally disagree on the perceived hegemony of the brown/rev/forum pots
But thats me
heavy brook
bags do need another touch up, DoT is cool but the incentive to use not highest damage bags is not there
fierce wasp
I want to run depths because the radius seems funny but the damage loss looks really bad (again, on paper)
heavy brook
Things die rather slowly so a radius increase doesn't matter since you can throw another pot
sweet shell
Will I still use them a lot? probably
But I still get pleasant results on non highest dmg bags as harb
As apoth I would assume highest dmg pot always makes sense
chilly tiger
I want to run depths because the radius seems funny but the damage loss looks re...
I tried it, it really sucked in my experience, basically makes you unable to kill elites or dreads or whatever else
It would work in a scenario where all you are killing is weak mobs but there is no scenario like that that exists
heavy brook
It would work in a scenario where all you are killing is weak mobs but there is ...
Era 1 Teal sweep!!!!
sweet shell
Also you're always allowed to run two pots in hotbar
heavy brook
yes but why
sweet shell
Which does help the high radius pots to switch out for twisteds or dreada
heavy brook
you're damage will be overwritten with the higher damage bag so why use the radius bag
I must be missing something, this isn't the class I have the most hours in
chilly tiger
Already am full with Pot/Pick/Ranged Weapon/Shield/Axe/Blocks or Loom/Hrimnirs/Mountains Dew/Fruit of Life
sweet shell
Because its huge qol
chilly tiger
Idk what I'd ever drop to fit another bag
Every single other item in my hotbar feels like more QoL than I'd get from using another bag
fierce wasp
The ranged weapon (ideally you are allowed to just use bags for most gameplay that isn't shooting down ghasts but here we are)
chilly tiger
Ranged Weapon is pretty critical to alch single target DPS nowadays tbh
fierce wasp
That is not the statement I want to hear from an alchemist
heavy brook
I can see a blanket buff of +2 to R2 bags and +3 to R3 bags being the extra edge Alch needs
chilly tiger
I deal more sustained damage with 0-projectile damage investment bow shots than I do with my actual class skills
heavy brook
and probably some extra touch ups to the radius bags
fierce wasp
More than just blanket buff, the spread in damage across bags needs to be tightened up hard
I know there's a hard progression cutoff in R2 but damn if all those bags aren't useless as hell
heavy brook
blanket buff effectively decreases the percentages between bag damage, so I wonder if that is all that is needed
fierce wasp
Even the light gray bag isn't a banger so I know there's something up (joke)
heavy brook
probably not, DD 7 Forum 10 vs DD 9 Forum 12 is still a bad split
fierce wasp
Honestly wondering again about pot eco
Maybe spread the range of pot balance against max pots and damage
heavy brook
Toxic Steroid EO2 turns combat into an unskippable cutscene because you have the infinite potion glitch (real)
Willows vs Rev bag is a very large difference
which may work in R1, I'm too stubborn to try Rev bag because bad pot radius
for R2 & 3 I would halve the current difference between weakest and strongest pot damage
worthy iron
eternal what do you think about the new damage stats proposed in my doc?
the new doc I posted
chilly tiger
Too much of a buff imo
worthy iron
Too much of a buff imo
keep in mind AA and esoteric is nerfed
chilly tiger
Eh, even still, idk
worthy iron
in general slight buff for apoth, but for harb it should be around the same
just you can deal more with the base potion
as a harb myself I would say creeper makes up wayyy to much of total damage
like my pot only deals like 40
heavy brook
buff Gallery bag to 20 base, let me bomb the halls
worthy iron
but when creeper spawns everything is wiped out
fierce wasp
Plan to read the doc, did not intend on ignoring it because I definitely want to see new ideas for alch, been too busy running numbers on current alch
sweet shell
Ranged Weapon is pretty critical to alch single target DPS nowadays tbh
The apoth lifestyle be hurtin
fierce wasp
First 30min feedback:
The triggers help a lot, I like the auto recast of elixir. Being able to throw potions with right or left click feels very nice, makes it a much more comfortable experience managing inputs.
This might not be too far off of where alch finally needs to be. I'm in a highly optimized set, though I am a little rusty, and I can see performance issues during a clear of 12 point Shadowcast Bastille. I have enough potions to satisfy pot eco issues, but I'm running EO2 and toxic steroid to do so. Damage looks pretty close at 80% magic damage, but I'd need a small bit more to feel satisfied with the experience. The smaller pot range of new alch compared to old is pretty noticable, and I have to aim better and have less aoe power.
Elites are dangerous and don't go down easy, which is probably for the best. If I have control over the engagement they can pretty easy fights, but other mobs or more dangerous elites can threaten me significantly. The support capabilities of this set are not particularly good, and I think it would not pull its weight in a group, but would at least not be a total throw like last week's alch.
In a 12 point Silvic, it only took me around 15 minutes to clear. Definitely a very slow pace compared to other classes I play, but the gameplay is actually fairly enjoyable. In this poi I tried adding AA to my skill list and I've found it compliments the gameplay well- having a bigger blast that does high damage without scattering mobs severely like UA was quite helpful. I could kill the boss in around 1 minute, or at least under 2, so definitely a big improvement from last week if that's anything to go by. I still believe this is not a strong enough class to hold it's own in a group, but the new casting triggers along with the changed cd of AA definitely sets the tone for a base to work off of.
However, I once again must state that I believe I've taken severe optimization steps in the pursuit of damage just to get the gameplay flow to feel close to good (I don't have max persp, only level 6), and I'm making all my choices in regard to damage. I don't think I can justify taking "fun" picks if I have to stress every part of my setup (skills, worn gear, charms) to get a somewhat playable experience.
How do apoths do it 
I need me my pot damage and regen
vestal laurel
First 30min feedback:
The triggers help a lot, I like the auto recast of elixir....
two minute boss
12 pt
needed eo 2 and toxic steroid
alch moment ;-;
lyric path
shortest balance discussion
foggy heart
SInce when is this a thing
zenith moth
wait what
distant junco
which one you think is new
foggy heart
the fuck
I've been maining alchemist for almost my entire existance
and I've never noticed or seemingly gained a single pot from this
foggy heart
"sometimes" ?
sweet shell
Screen to customize triggers
foggy heart
i set it to left click but it does not seem to work
foggy heart
unbinded energizing elix hotkey
becuase i can still cast the normal one
works good now
oblique heron
So after having not played much last week and having no idea what was buffed exactly this week, I can easily state, that alch now is not any weaker that pre rework. You no longer have insane range due to snowballs and the gameplay has returned to the bag play (something I like quite a bit).
Naturally therefore underwater and flying are not the easiest targets but others have to work around that too.
Scorched earth now triggers on dot(s) so the new optimal play is now brutal + enhancement as opposed to the artillery + enhancement that it was pre change. (this is to maximise burst dps on elites)
Also notable is Energising Elixir gaining an inefficient but well worth it auto cast. I must say I probably totally slept on that skill even pre rework it's an absolute powerhouse.
I'm still not a massive fan of what bags could have been. Most are almost the same leaving basically 2 options on the table:
The best dmg bag
The range/underwater bag (forced in any water content)
By adding throw rate to the mix a lot more different and interesting bags might be created.
foggy heart
yeah relooking at it
if that's how alch is going to play now I think I'm staying as mage/scout
the pot damage of my setup is equivalent to a single mana lance while abilities kinda just laught at me for even bothering to use them, EE autocast is good tho, i agree on that
static plaza
Just tried alch after the update
EE auto recast is godly
Damage is still bad but atleast its funny with bis damage
Bag variety still isnt a thing which is sad
I still enjoy this more than bow aa (but imo alch still deserves a bow skill, bow aa was literally the most perfect skill for alch it fit its theme so well, i wish it werent so op)
surreal moat
and I've never noticed or seemingly gained a single pot from this
I’ve noticed it happens occasionally but the chance is like unbelievably low even in massive group kills
coral pecan
farm*
sterile wolf
Damage is alright for me as harb
But pot splash radius is insanely small, most of the time I have to pick off mobs one by one because I could barely hit two with a pot at once
2.5 radius is literally what sweeping edge has
This also implies that more pots need to be spent per encounter
vestal laurel
Just use dd bag in r3 smh my head my head
ancient warren
in r3 you can just use the +25% radius charm
making potions with extra radius pretty pointless actually
not so in r2 though - and I feel like the damage in r2 is worse too
although mobs are much weaker
so you can afford to take your time to kill them
vestal laurel
DD bag is really good though
ancient warren
doesn't it lose like 25% damage compared to forum?
vestal laurel
You never miss unless you threw it in the opposite direction
Yeah it does
So honestly I have a support class bias
sweet shell
making potions with extra radius pretty pointless actually
I disagree, the qol and sheer radius keep bag gets with the charm is insane
25% charm also helps a lot with Brown bag, it's a gamechanger for all bags rather than just being useful on brown
and a thing that is heavily felt when leaving r3
distant junco
making potions with extra radius pretty pointless actually
It's like I use less time to let mob group up , so a potion is more effiency
fierce wasp
Already have thoughts of wanting more radius on my radius 3 bags, 2.5 would be miserable
distant junco
A potion throw that can't cover all dreadling that dreadnaughts spawn
maybe that's why I play no AA alch feeling
group of mob is hard to hit
fierce wasp
yeah if the aoe is this limited I don't feel like alch's ability to do damage with the bag is that op
sterile wolf
yeah if the aoe is this limited I don't feel like alch's ability to do damage wi...
It almost feels like it's a melee attack with less single target damage but much longer range with a 2.5 bag yeah
fierce wasp
I would like to see a buff to scarlet haze (and subsequent nerf to SE charms to balance them out if needed)- unmodified it still feels pretty bad despite the brutal dot triggering the damage
it feels like it makes no noticable difference in the time to kill an elite/dread encounter, which should be where it's strongest
also/alternatively the cooldown could use some adjustment, it's really bad might work if you're forced into a slower playstyle due to post alch changes, but it does not keep up at all for me
midnight silo
Chiming in late but after a little playtime the other day current damage felt fair but with the greater number of potions needed per mob I was running out constantly. With a little higher potion regen current alch would feel pretty ok.
zenith moth
distant junco
Anyone found it alch playable without infusion/glass cannon/AA in r2? I wonder how people dealing with potion eco
chilly tiger
It's.. playable, barely, it definitely feels the worst out of the 3 regions by a long shot
I don't like the state of R2 alch at all
chilly tiger
I think playing without AA in R2 is still a death sentence, the power level is just far too low for base alch to work there without it
distant junco
AA for me it’s noticeable a LOT that because radius limited but also the damage multiple
My forum alch bag radius is 
While AA radius is 
chilly tiger
AA radius is still smaller than old base pot radius when using nihilo proof
vestal laurel
The devs made aa even more meta
chilly tiger
Yeah it's still pretty mandatory
I'm not heartbroken about it being mandatory now since it's much less buggy than before, but it is basically a must-pick unless you're going for shitty inferno DoT alch in R3
But that playstyle doesn't work in other regions much at all
distant junco
That’s true. I may change to infernolock
Didn’t try it , may try it and compare it to DoT alch
sterile wolf
You will understand how much of a laughing stock DOT alch is compared to infernolock 
sterile wolf
It's like 7-8HAR
worthy iron
Honestly I feel like I wont play alch even if the damage get buffed to pre nerf levels
the aoe radius is miserable
a huge part of alch's appeal is aoe
sick citrus
Alchemists when their class isn't overpowered
you have Oversized Flask and Explosive Insanity Charm lol
chilly tiger
fr fr
sick citrus
with Artil having 150% of your pot radius, idk what you are complaining about
chilly tiger
I am going to complain 😠
about R2 alch 😠
and enhancements 😠
(but complaining about anything else is wack)
noble flame
i mean having alch's standard attack being effectively slashed by 33% across the board probably feels pretty bad
chilly tiger
R3 is 33%, R2 is like 38-39%, R1 is like 20% iirc
R2 got hit the hardest by a pretty big margin
sick citrus
yeah
chilly tiger
and it was already kinda struggling to begin with (magic options are so shit in R2)
R1 alch is fine because it's always been fine and people just never talked about it (truly the power of being not seen as overpowered)
sick citrus
R1 alch before rework was just not fun for me lol
now i like it more because new Artil
worthy iron
you have Oversized Flask and Explosive Insanity Charm lol
its like .5 more radius I think?
sick citrus
it was like 1.5 block
worthy iron
UA is not something you can use a lot
its like per 16 sec
Creeper charm is the only thing keeping my damage afloat
since they are the only dudes that hits good damage on a decent radius
sick citrus
its like per 16 sec
Isn't it 12s on Lv2?
chilly tiger
nah it's 16, base is 20
sick citrus
ah
fierce wasp
Alch is at a point where yeah it can function but I don't have a reason to really pick it over another class
the combined value of middling aoe damage with... EO? tincture? can't fit much else support now with the state of alch
Is not a very good selling point
Probably a little late to ask for changes now (been busy), but one change that I think would be certainly for the better would be for AA1 to be either 200% damage, or 250% damage with 9s cd (or maybe a little more if necessary). AA1 is a useless level.
vestal laurel
bring back poise 2 on fine print, this will definitely solve the issue
fierce wasp
yes
vestal laurel
it was changed to give more agility in compensation
although it was definitively a nerf
midnight silo
It deserved it tbh, I was surprised that it got through.
fierce wasp
Finally got a chance to play alchemist in R2... and yeah it's very clearly too weak. I was easily the worst member in my group, contributing the least in kills and aoe ability, and the support that I provided was nowhere near sufficient to justify the pick (I was harbinger and still had significant issues with damage)
chilly tiger
Yeah I think it's pretty telling that I have about triple the tracked damage on my R1 Alch bag as I do on my R2 Alch bag
It just is not fun at all to play any R2 content as alch, especially solo
I do overworld poi bounties and that's it
sick citrus
I think i gotta go Warrior in R2 for now
fierce wasp
Also on R1 the damage is... unacceptable for progression. I know alch has trended towards high magic damage sets, but I cannot ever see it being a playable experience without at least 3 magic damage items, even with Reverie bag to bring as much damage as you can
chilly tiger
I don't think alch is ever playable without at least 3 magic damage pieces tbf
Doesn't matter the region
My r1 set has 3, R2 set has 4 and still feels like it's missing damage, and R3 has 3
Alch has always tended towards hyperglass even pre-nerf tbf, but yeah certainly does lean even further that way now that you need the highest damage bag and basically BIS damage
fierce wasp
Progression wise though, the availability of magic in R1 is..... really, really bad
at least in R2 you can cope with previous R1 items
chilly tiger
Yeah, fair, Magenta bag does help a little though; early on you can rely on its additional DoT to carry you a bit
R1 magic gear being nonexistent pre-light blue isn't really an alch issue it's a gear issue
untold lotus
i dont think alch is viable pre-lb even if you had magic damage gear
the bags do like 2/2.5/3/3.5 damage lol
and the mobs have 20+ hp
chilly tiger
I've found it.. playable
Rely on UA when you get in a bad situation and you can do just fine, even if it takes a bit longer
sick citrus
have u guys tried R3 Decay Alch?
chilly tiger
Yeah, I'm not a fan, even leaning all-in it's just worse inferno mage/warlock
It functions but it's weak and boring and has no real reason to be picked over the other better DoT subclasses
sick citrus
I think its kinda funny
vestal laurel
my favorite part about r1 alch is that it's more viable to melee with gruesome than it is to use magic
sick citrus
holy-
sterile wolf
my favorite part about r1 alch is that it's more viable to melee with gruesome t...
This is unironically the OG way to play alch
Power injection gang rise up
distant junco
Anyone found it alch playable without infusion/glass cannon/AA in r2? I wonder ...
Bump
vestal laurel
Anyone found it alch playable without infusion/glass cannon/AA in r2? I wonder ...
actually, yes!
I just feel like I do a lot less damage than I did before
but the tankiness is mostly the same so it's just a lot more running around
sterile wolf
Anyone found it alch playable without infusion/glass cannon/AA in r2? I wonder ...
tbh I don't really find it playable even when I use those so..
vestal laurel
scuffed.
veil's horizon with mist's wake
veilcoral bag
gruesome 2 tinct 2 eo 2 amal 2 brutal 2 panacea 2 remedy 2
distant junco
Other build pieces?
vestal laurel
incredibly harmful tome or whatever-veil's horizon-seeker's pursuit-mist's wake-fine print-veilcoral bag
it's a taboo build without the taboo
distant junco
I call it’s poise build but nah
oak surge
I think a huge part of what makes alch bad is the dot aspect. Apart from inferno dot kinda sucks