#Request for Comment: Architect's Ring Overworld Mobs (2)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

agile glacier
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I'm here to gather suggestions and feedback about the state of mobs in the Architect's Ring Overworld. For this thread, there are two post types I'd like to see: issues you want to see fixed, and suggestions on how to fix those issues. I am only interested in Overworld mobs at this time. I will do a separate feedback thread for dungeon, strike, and other content mobs at a later time. Delve mobs and Delves are not included in the set of Overworld mobs.

Post Rules:
If you want your feedback considered, you must follow these rules. I want to improve the game in the ways I can but I cannot sort through hundreds of messages.

  • Come with a thoughtful and well formatted post. One liners and feedback split between multiple messages clutters the thread.
  • Use the built-in Discord reply function if you want to add onto someone else's post for organizational purposes.
  • Use 👍 reactions for posts you agree with and 👎 reactions for posts you disagree with. I'll do everyone from the last thread a favor and react to this thread header with 🗨️ 🐴 👎 and 🐟.

Known Issues:

  • Shade Hounds
  • Airborne Corruptors (Arx phantoms)
  • Earth Monks
  • Gladiator Spirits (Locum Elite Blazes)
  • Coven Overseers (Coven, Bewitched Summoner Elites)
  • Many encounters heavily favor AoE classes either due to melee range being dangerous or the number of dangerous mobs at any given moment.
  • Some mobs have unnecessary abilities that do not make encounters more enjoyable and difficult.
  • The layout of some POIs leads to mob buildup through no fault of the player. If you have specific areas in mind, feel free to take a screenshot of the offending area and include it with your post.
strange wren
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For locum creepers my suggestion would be to make it so the mob spawned looses %hp equal to the %hp the creeper lost. This makes it less punishing for melee who don’t one shot it but still encourages you to try and kill it. This would help due to the near Insta explosion so not punishing you for hitting a mob while aoe has range so is less likely they explode thus not punishing them for trying to kill the mob.

gritty pine
tough maple
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Would also like to say for locum creepers, is that they don't keep delve modifiers when they turn into the summoned mobs

languid oxide
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Generally i don't find there to be many big "issues" with mobs in the overworld.
-Shade Hounds are a neat enemy to me personally, i don't personally have an issue with them.
-Lycanthrope mobs from a couple of the Pelias Keep areas are neat, but I believe they should have their jump in the air changed into a more aggressive leap akin to Bloodthirsty to be more challenging.
-Earth Monks are generally obnoxious and I dislike their attack as it seems abrupt and hard to avoid, though that's fine with me, as I enjoy a mob presenting a threat.
-Airborne Corruptors are horrible in my opinion, and by far the worst designed mob in the game due to how they treat melee classes. I believe in mobs countering certain playstyles and classes, but having them practically hard counter melee goes too far imo.
-Gladiator Spirits are neat i guess, not fun to fight personally but they serve their purpose of being "Elite" and making things challenging for melee.
-I believe most Elite mobs in general need their special attacks reduced in cast time significantly, or their health largely increased to give them more time to execute attacks and actually pose a challenge.
-Personally I enjoy areas with large concentrations of spawners to remove control from the player, as I believe the player has too much control over their environments to trivialize threats.
-I really like the movement speed and KBR many enemies have to make melee more difficult than in previous regions, and I hope this continues.

drifting oasis
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Not necessarily adding more to the list of known issues but I thought i'd give some of my own opinions on some of the mentioned issues and some of my personal reasons why they are problematic. (For the most part I think R3 mob design is pretty great; player power level is skyrocketed with R3 so it's only fair that mobs are similarly challenging, but I think there's just a couple misses with certain designs)

For Shade hounds (my beloathed), the main issue to me is the frequency of their teleport behind attack, their fast movement speed, and their invisibility/low visibility (Other classes struggle more with their small hitboxes and their tendency to spawn in large groups). I don't think we've yet had to deal with enemies that both teleport behind you and are fast and small (correct me if i'm wrong) and this, imo, is the main issue; they are simply too mobile to be fun to deal with. They're non-stop teleporting behind you and they almost always get a hit in (compared to most other mobs which teleport which are actually pretty slow otherwise), which can be really bad. I'd fix the issue either by increasing their cooldown between teleports or slowing down their movement speed.
.

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Airborne Corruptors and Gladiator Spirits fall into the same categories to me, which is of enemies that fly/avoid melee attacks/basically must be fought at range while having too high hp to deal with with a basic ranged weapon without using a class ability (Like if you used Word of the Architect to take them out as a non-scout/alch/mage, you'd need to hit like 4-7 shots depending on delve points, at which point they'll start using their really really scary attacks.) I think a simple solution would be reducing their max hp, so other classes can deal with them easier, while still being terrifying mobs that you can't let live.

Coven Overseers really only have 1 problem, and that is their massive aoe poison attack that should be balanced around its slow windup, but simply isn't because they have totems of undying. I have never been able to ever kill them before this attack goes off and it is a really painful attack to get hit by. Imo, slow down this attack or make it smaller or make it less punishing.

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For just about every other mob, I don't really have any issues with them (Doomed Encampment endermen suck to fight as alch but that's the price alch has to pay for being simply too cool and awesome)

severe veldt
languid oxide
severe veldt
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POI: Arx Spirensis
Mob: Volatile Mist

I think that some creepers are a touch too strong in blast damage, but more specifically there's a pretty bad spot in Arx after the small bridge with a Spirensis Statue. There's 2 suspended spawners for the creepers and it spawns a ton from each one. The creepers are knockback immune, and have very strong blasts, and it seems excessive to deal with without aoe tools for both spawners (and they're very close together) or you just have to accept they will blow up every single time (bad news if your shield breaks due to delve mods).

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POI: Forsaken Manor
Mob: Silent Echoes and parent mobs (Decayed Servant, Decayed Noble)
The silence echoes have some pretty extreme damage (and are also knockback immune) and silence on hit, and that much damage on a "common" mob (as they are respawners from common mobs) is really nasty to deal with. If the parent mobs had some stronger stats in return for silent echoes being nerfed, that would be an acceptable tradeoff.

languid oxide
severe veldt
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POI: Forsaken Manor
Mob: Spectral Priests
The Spectral Priest summons a high hp blaze (185 hp relative to 250hp elite and 105 highest normal mob hp). The Foreman in Brown also spawns a high hp mob though it's even closer in hp, but this spawned mob is also an elite. The blaze doesn't have to be an elite, though I think it could add some extra difficulty in dreadful, but also be advantageous for rogues to have a second elite. It's more of a categorization issue, it's a weird middle ground between elite and normal mob, but I think given it's huge hp and since it has an ability, it's closer to elite than normal mob.

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POI: Arx Spirensis
Mob: Spirensis Statue
The third Spirensis statue (immediately after the first Arx Bomber) spawns incredibly early, usually when the first chest is grabbed, and it ends up frequently falling into the water and becoming a nonthreat or otherwise not interacted with. Would be more effective if the spawning range was reduced so you actually encounter it on the bridge.

neat ermine
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as for areas in POIs that have large mob buildup, the very first beginning area/house in amanita colony at the entrance on chanterelle’s side is really spawner dense and tend to all activate on the player as they walk up. the spawners at the top of the house very often even spawn mobs outside of it and can drop down easily while you’re unsuspectingly walking up the stairs. i like to run 35 points, and this beginning area is legitimately the most difficult part of the entire poi

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575516687676211215/1069102180189098034/2023-01-28_21.48.07.png

languid oxide
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I'd enjoy if some of the spawners under Quelled Convent's main room had their ranges reduced to prevent enemies from trying to attack you from the basement while you're still clearing the top part of the POI.

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Please either massively increase the health of it, or reduce the charge time of the Buried Horror's earthshake attack. It barely poses any meaningful threat on it's own because it hardly gets an attack off.

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The Silvic Geomancer's arena could also be made a bit larger, I don't really enjoy trying to fight it due to a lack of space to avoid it's lingering bombs.

drifting oasis
languid oxide
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Increase the base health of the skeleton archers within Silvic Quarry, they're pretty fragile and they usually never get a chance to use their hook attack.

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also possibly slightly reduce the base health of the zombie mobs in Silvic Quarry in exchange for more movement speed, KBR, or damage. I feel they don't really add to the challenge of a fight, but take a couple hits to put down anyways.

umbral river
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Elites generally feel less unique relative to basic mobs due to every mob gaining abilities.

It feels like all abilities are made and reused now with very little unique abilities being made for enemies. I would love to see elites with unique abilities.

sudden peak
# languid oxide Generally i don't find there to be many big "issues" with mobs in the overworld....

I believe airborne corrupters would not be as horrible if there was a small delay before he flies back up to the ceiling after the charge attack (like 1-2 seconds would probably suffice). Right now, they often spam tnt, charge into the ground, and fly up out of melee range instantly, so you don’t really get the chance to do anything unless you have an ability with incredible range (such as advancing shadows with epic charm)

umbral river
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I would love elites with immediately threatening presences rather than very specific abilities or abilities that add themselves onto combat making it overwhelming.

Elites like the Alarinkiri, Seeker of the Truth, Magma Head, and SR Blazes are great examples of Elites that wear their title like a badge without feeling like the outcome of the battle is not something I can influence anymore.

languid oxide
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Massively increase the base damage of the golem elites that summon all the trash mobs inside of some wolfswood POIs, they deal extremely low damage compared to most enemies and other elites in general.

vivid parcel
lean violet
# languid oxide Massively increase the base damage of the golem elites that summon all the trash...

Or... Buff damage and the amount the summon zombies they spawn and increases golem's hp a bit.
I think that the gimmick of summon a low damage-tanky mob which summons multiple mobs that deal high dmg attack is nice, currently it is one of the easier elites in game to deal with, the best the zombies can do is hit you once or twice and didnt really have something meaningful on them and the golem is just a walking target

languid oxide
lean violet
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To add on that, the slime elites in amanite/chanterelle/hollow just feels... kindabland(reference????) Anyway, the slime shrinks down the more you deal damage to it, this is meant that it will be harder to hit later on and will be slightly faster, which is quickly counter by the amount of aoe classes you have. I think the shrinking gimmick can be expand on by buffing speed and damage of slime when it shrinks down more and more, will be a much better gimmick as you know that the slime gets harder the slower it gets

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Additionally , the last stages of the slime should be way smaller, as this will make it harder for you to deal with : ) (haha)

languid oxide
pliant mesa
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The only 2 i ever had issues with were Shade Hounds and Airborne Corruptors
Shade Hounds and their insanity is probably already well known, they don't despawn, chunky melee dmg, hard to hit due to invisibility and spamable teleport, since usually 2-3 spawn per spawner cleric and warrior usually commit self die
if i had to change them, I would give them permanent (can be gray-dark gray color) glowing effect, it should allow melee to hit them more consistantly, and decrease their hp, so that they are a glass cannon that hits hard and pursues relentlessly, but can be quickly dealt with even shattered on your way to grave.

pliant mesa
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Now Corruptors, one of my problems is definetly how compared to most mobs their 'charge' seems to be able to cover way longer distances, and is cast way faster, usually not giving enough time to react, the bombs it throw should definetly take more time to explode as well, since it spams them. There's also this beautiful phantom AI not being used to such immense size...
If i had to change corruptors i would either make them slowly lose hp similiary to Special Astrals, but at all time since spawned,
Or just make their dash worse and spam more bombs which will instead take some time before exploding, and make them more passive rather than active in player pursuit, to make it more of a temporary area denial mob which you need to work around, and not something that can casually dash into you right after you die and insta nuke you.

valid sable
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Some mob I have to mention is some mobs (notably normal skeletons) have a very strong pull ability (something like 2.0 strength) on a mob that is basically spammable. I personally believe that motion inflicting abilities should be strictly elite only, or at least massively reduced in strength.
Same thing applies to the galeblade in bewitched, it makes meleeing them extremely annoying, even levitation would be better imho.

tawdry kernel
last matrix
slender ridge
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Spy, let me tell you something. Pay close attention to the text that I am about to write.

An average human body has about 38 trillion cells. In each of these cells there is a spiral helix of DNA that, if stretched to its maximum, is about two meters long. DNA is one of the densest stores of information on the planet: a single gram of DNA stores about 700 terabytes of information. If we stretched out the 76 trillion meters of DNA in my body and recorded, character by character, the word "Hate" over and over and over again, this pile of information could not store the tiniest fraction of a trillionth of the hatred that I feel for Airborne Corrupters. Every drop of blood in my body cries out for their nerf. My very soul writhes in disgust. Their mere existence is a blasphemy and an affront to every possible virtue and quality that any rational mob can have. They are a deception to Satan himself. Please nerf them Spy. Please.

short wraith
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Something I don't hear a lot about are the Fading Shadows from Doomed Encampment.

These mobs are quite unpleasant to deal with as they have a ton of totems of undying (like...5?), making oneshotting them (as Rogue) extremely difficult as well as hitting extremely hard, to the point where getting close to them is a death sentence in most circumstances. Combined with their totems of undying, these things are a race to kill right after they spawn before they notice you and murder you immediately. Personally I think their total revives should be lowered or they should have the totem of undying removed and instead just be given more health to compensate.

Fighting one of these things always feels like a gamble. You slip up once and you're dead.

warm sluice
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I kind of wish the coven fortress boss wasn't able to track you so incredibly hard

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I died there one time and the guy would always show up wherever it tried to go to retrieve my grave

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His bullets made it impossible to pillar up and when I tried to go the normal path he was just waiting there for me

valid sable
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Following up on Fading Shadows, the invisible vindicator mob (called hollow something I think?), does a massive amount of melee damage (much higher compared to other melee mobs) and have pretty fast speed (0.3 or 0.27) I believe

warm sluice
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I don't really know if this thing is something shared by all bosses but from what I have played, it is the only one who has gone far out of its way to track Me down

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Others usually stay around their arena and aggro about in that general area

cyan lantern
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It does seem like a lot of the mob issues are also bugs or feel like bugs, off the top of my head:

(paper issue) Several mobs don't despawn normally

  • shade hounds
  • iron golems

(bug 14800) Mobs mounted on bees don't transfer damage from the bee's hitbox, and additionally tend to aggressively path their flying mount into the player, resulting in it just negating any damage that registers against it for targeted attacks. The pathing is even more confusing because (at least for the two i can think of) these mobs don't have a melee attack, only ranged abilities to cast.

  • hornet nest
  • submerged guardian
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Issues with Overworld mob implementations that are most obviously exposed by Delve Modifiers (sorry, but i'm not sure how to separate this with how much the delve issues blend with the normal mob implementation):

(bugs 14956/15296) Various mobs with status effects added to their normal damage source also deal it with any abilities added to them, making ability-based delve modifiers even more problematic. NobodyPi has mentioned this is due to the use of boss_onhit which applies to all sources of damage, and might not be trivial to fix since each mob using boss_onhit probably makes different assumptions.

  • spore carrier
  • spore crawler
  • probably others

(bug 14582) Coven Fortress's Boss (Guardian of Life), in addition to the issues others have mentioned, summons standard versions of the Ancestral Ent elite as its adds as long as it is alive.
Having this mob is problematic first in that these ents passively heal everything in the poi as long as they are alive at the top with the boss, and they have a tendency to leap slam from the top of the world straight onto players who have just respawned or are trying to make their way back up.
And then, since they are standard delve-modifiable versions of the mob, the flying bodyslam poi healing continuous boss summons can be transcendant and dreadful and infernal.

agile glacier
short wraith
# cyan lantern It does seem like a lot of the mob issues are also bugs or feel like bugs, off t...

As an extension to issues with hornets nests, they have a particular problem with trying to fly on top of the player, which can crush them into the ground (as shulkers are treated as blocks, so cause the player to go prone). In the first part of Locum, this can lead to them drowning you (or just making it so you can't move and get hit by external attacks) due to the shulker clipping into you.

slender ridge
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it cant get shrimpler

agile glacier
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I've compiled all of the feedback up to this point in the thread. I'll still be accepting more feedback in here but I'd like to thank everyone who's participated so far.

unborn rose
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PoI: Amanita Colony, Chanterelle Village, Verdant Hollow
Mob: Infected Ant
These things not only deal a whopping 30 damage, which outclasses that of every other mob in the PoIs they appear in, including the elites, but they also have decent health (85), are spiders (which makes them harder to hit and more likely to hit you) and spawn another mob on dealth. What's worse is that two of these PoIs are only 1 star, which makes them especially brutal. Additionally...

PoI: Bewitched Dominion
Mob: Hexbound Arachnid
Comparing Infected Ant to these things is not even funny. They have no ability (or at least, not that I've ever noticed), deal only 20 damage and have only 65 health, even though they appear in a higher-tier PoI.

My suggestion would be to swap the damage and health of these two mobs while letting Infected Ant retain its spawn-on-death ability.

valid sable
vernal kiln
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(Yeah fwiw, hexbound arachnids are spawned 3 at a time by the elite, but those have already had some feedback given to them)

unborn rose
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Huh, aren't there actual spawners for them though? Because those spiders are also spawned by the elites in Coven Fortress IIRC but the Coven Fortress tab of the bestiary doesn't list them, just like it doesn't list the mobs the Infected Ants spawn

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Either way Infected Ant is way too strong for where it shows up, it's like an Arx-level mob

valid sable
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also hollow shape in doomed

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39 base damage

unborn rose
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Hollow Shape at least are slow and easy to hit, and Doomed is at least a Keep PoI

valid sable
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hollow shape is .3 speed iirc

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or .27

severe veldt
unborn rose
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I knew I wasn't crazy. Wouldn't make sense for them to show up in the bestiary otherwise.

agile glacier
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What kinda stats

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Even with a 80% Melee DR build that's still 3 hearts per hit for Infected Ants

tawdry kernel
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Do take note that a bis melee damage build in r3 has more than 80% melee dr soo that really doesn't mean much