#The main issues with Team Content and ideas on how to Improve it

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

modest bane
#

Cpnstruct is bonkus

#

He is harder than a litteral time demigod

wanton magnet
#

Yeah construct is the actual gate to solo nskt

#

Being able to do 30% HP in 30s is rough

#

Doable with full infusions, DPS gear, and potions. But it's rough.

#

Or is it 20% in nskt

#

All I know is construct is the actual gate, and I think teal savage can be done solo if you're a madman

#

The big trick is timing your 3rd wind up/wind back perfectly with two fates approaching the middle

#

You set up a double fate wind up 1, wind up two you move the pair back, and wind up three you use your impending demise to set up the second pair of fates

#

I actually nearly pulled it off with @clear oak in the call with me, died in the last 15%

#

Me: ok so everyone else died and I'm alone and two fates are approaching mid....I'm pretty sure I can....
[Sets up fate pair]
Mscr: excuse me

#

Without doing that I'm pretty sure you can't solo savage teal, because wind up/back gives him too much DR to manage 4 wind ups before a fate hits mid

clear oak
#

it was awful and i used up a lot of resources but its possibl

wanton magnet
#

Construct or teal

clear oak
#

construct and teal i did guardian

#

(i moved the infusions to my other set mid run LOL)

wanton magnet
#

How do you solo teal without doing the goofy dual fate from mid strat

#

Or did you use it

clear oak
#

i used it

wanton magnet
#

Ok yeah that's the only way it's possible

#

I don't think it's possible otherwise, not enough time

hollow anvil
#

which is why it is fair to call duoing easy

#

construct can be 20% but is more likely to be 25%

dark grove
#

Sounds like they should make crossed fates have an even larger radius check so you can't do the double fate strat

proud beacon
#

thonk or just made back to the time smaller radius

dark grove
#

Or expand the players ring and make it so you will inevitably pull 2 fates at once and instantly wipe the team when you do the strat Kappa

#

If you wanna make it so that a 4 player team is needed then give every player+fate a matching glowing color, and change the mechanic so you can not move fates that are not the same color

#

Lots of ways to troll you and make everyone sad Kappa

#

But I think the point is that even if I can duo it in idk 10 tries, why would I do that for some random person in lfg
You still have no idea how the fight works and I have to spend an extra 20-30 minutes doing the fight
Next time you're still gonna go into lfg and find someone to carry you

#

Carrying someone doesn't solve the problem where the person being carried has insufficient knowledge/team awareness to complete the fight, and you're merely delaying the problem until the next content drop because they'll be needing a carry again since they don't know how to play around teams and communicate efficiently

wanton magnet
#

Before I discussed it publicly I made sure it was relatively intentional, and it is.

proud beacon
#

thonk Is dungeon cringe chest rusher a strats

modest bane
dark grove
dark grove
proud beacon
#

Truely thonk moment

wanton magnet
#

You can stack two fates on top of each other without crossing

#

It's a massive pain to do

#

And has significant risks of just exploding because you moved a quarter block from a mob hit

#

So yeah you can manage 4 at once, technically. Double double decker fates in a cursed vertical square shape

#

That said, I haven't found a scenario where it's viable

#

Setting up two doubles already takes 3 cycles where one fate doesn't move

#

So you already need to be hitting a dps check of 3 cycles dead time (at the start), and managing two doubles only takes 1 cycle of dead time

#

(You alternate which pair you wind back)

#

The only situation quad fate management would make sense is if you don't have the DPS for a single dead cycle on a fate

#

But if you don't have the DPS for a single dead cycle you can't set it up

#

(You need 3 dead cycles min)

#

Personally, I want savage with 8 fates.

#

Enough people know how to double manage fates that I'm sure 8 fate savage isn't just possible, but probably super fun

loud citrus
#

I think it’s bad to require tech that is not really learnable in normal for savage

wanton magnet
#

I think the hardest content on the server being reasonably duoable means the heat should be cranked up

#

Also I teach people dual fate management in nskt

rich viper
#

that's not at all required tech

#

normal is 4 player, 2 fates

#

so you have 2 people per fate you gotta tp back

clear jacinth
#

i was in a public skt where we each did a fate

#

savage*

#

it worked out

rich viper
#

only way i've played it, and it's worked eventually each time

clear jacinth
#

learning to double in normal skt where there is less pressure sounds nice though

rich viper
#

double management, at once, is very much an acquired skill for like speedrunning or carrying stuff, far from a necessity for skt normal or savage

loud citrus
wanton magnet
#

Player tech has evolved to the point that 8 fate savage is reasonable, so yeah, I'm all for it

#

Or savager

#

I'd do savager literally for 10% more loot

clear jacinth
#

10% chance for one more rare?

proud beacon
#

🤯 savage skt is only launch of r3 hardest content

wanton magnet
#

10% more everything including rare chance I guess

#

It's not the reward it's the challenge I want

dark grove
#

ngl it's probably sufficient to add a limit where you can only do one fate at once

proud beacon
#

I think there will be 0 death true boss rush mode (this is a guess so I don't get shot)

dark grove
#

I have seen countless fuck ups from people doing the wrong fates when you do 1 each

wanton magnet
#

Removing dual fates would be lame

lament patio
#

Honestly, why is fate management that necessary?

wanton magnet
#

It's a fantastic extension of the mechanics as presented

lament patio
#

Like, special strays

dark grove
#

Because you wipe if you don't

lament patio
#

Strats

#

One person per fate

dark grove
#

And having strats where you take less risks is good

wanton magnet
lament patio
#

Might be the better groups I've gotten, but there's never been a fate issue in Savage

wanton magnet
#

Two doubles? Two lives

wanton magnet
#

Sometimes Two newbies

dark grove
#

More room for error that's for sure

proud beacon
#

still bump-ed this for this feedback not complete #gameplay-discussion v2.0

dark grove
#

If I'm doing savage with people who I'm familiar with we can one try the bosses without even being in vc

wanton magnet
#

Yep

dark grove
#

But you know if one person is unfamiliar and they mess up we all feel bad

#

And doing dual fates makes that possibility smaller

lament patio
#

More (good) friends = easier content = better gear = better chance of making said good friends

#

I don't even remember how I ended up knowing mscr honestly

proud beacon
#

how to enter the postive loop

clear jacinth
#

Is there enough incentive to run delve pois with randoms other than daily bounty, and perhaps weekly chests?

lament patio
#

Teal 70pt probably

dark grove
#

ngl I run t3 daily bounty delves solo because the 10 minutes I spend waiting for people to join is not worth it

clear jacinth
#

delve pois obviously R3 specific, but given that's where most players are atm, seems like a good place to think about

lament patio
proud beacon
dark grove
#

If I just die once or twice it's still faster than waiting for people

proud beacon
#

true

lament patio
#

I mean, there's nothing wrong with getting a friend to run 18pts weekly

#

It's what me and Xernial do

dark grove
#

Oh don't get me wrong, if there's someone online that I know I'd message them

proud beacon
#

Is playing efficiency opposite of fun?

dark grove
#

But waiting for people to join via /lfg?

#

That's another question

lament patio
#

Also, is it just me or are R3 overworld mat rates insanely rare compared to dungeon mats

dark grove
#

They nerfed it so not just you

lament patio
lament patio
dark grove
proud beacon
lament patio
#

And that was like a week after the R3 release

proud beacon
#

I playing cactus build that slower than average players doing a poi lul

proud beacon
#

imo easiest way to enter the loop is just chat.

#

And I playing dps role in lfg strike too. but that's harder die in fs 5 times in a role skill issuer here

clear jacinth
#

I think I've seen some returning players to lfg groups I've been in

#

as in some people return to lfg groups I host

proud beacon
#

ye

clear jacinth
#

maybe they're just in the same time zone/have the same availability, but maybe they want to run with me

#

idk!

proud beacon
#

I like the moment when I lfg and all omw is from my guild member

dark grove
#

I do kinda understand where alen is coming from? It's quite unlikely for me to remember someone from lfg content (strikes) unless

  1. You have a memorable skin
  2. You are funny in /wc chat
  3. You skill issued really hard
proud beacon
#

true true true

dark grove
#

Strikes are really not hard enough to make me think "oh this guy plays well I should play with them more"

clear jacinth
#

It's unlikely for me to remember someone from lfg content on a one off run unless

  1. You have an interesting set
  2. You are an absolute gamer
  3. You do something extremely unorthodox, whether or not it pans out
rich viper
sudden dirge
#

actually the more i think of this, the more im offended because you could have friends but they could just not want to play on the server or played on it but left when they felt it was too hard/repeatative just when the game is about to stop being like that. This was the case for me, when i did play with my friends i felt like i did absolutely nothing to contribute, so after they left i did things solo (now about to do the last dungeon (not strikes, bosses, nor special dungeons like ec) solo). so far i have done 4 dungeons with other people, all seemed like i got carried hard

#

also im not mad or anything

unreal flower
#

The most reliable way is to play solo

proud beacon
#

Making friend while playing with friends

#

70% of my friends that use to play with me left the game

strange jasper
#

bind your friendship through a guild

#

easy

proud beacon
#

Run a community server and let people join gigachad

sudden dirge
#

what im saying is that why should i make friends if my experiences with other people is not so fun

#

confirmation bias at its finest

strange jasper
#

thats fine but this is more regarding team content like strikes (even if soloable), skt and godspore

sudden dirge
#

yeah it has a connection with what i said

#

if you got no or not many friends how are you gonna do team based content efficiently and consistently

strange jasper
#

but isnt your argument that you dont enjoy playing content with people or did i misinterpret

sudden dirge
#

yeah but my main point is that how can i play with other people when i have no synergy with them

#

and feel like your always doing nothing

#

and i suppose how can you practice playing with others when you had not much fun because you fell your being carried

#

when you didnt want to

strange jasper
#

inevitable to happen when youre not very familiar with the content, its just a matter of playing more honestly

sudden dirge
#

what happens when they have the same level of experience then?

strange jasper
#

in my eyes i see it as a confidence issue

#

people dont go alone because they arent confident in themself to clear areas (at least thats what i experience)

#

and it can persist past experience so it just turns into a "that sucks, but theres not much that TM can do to help"

#

the choices players make are out of TM's control and response to content also faces a similar issue, if players who prefer playing solo find that they are outclassed in clearing team content, theres not much TM can do outside of heavily buffing content so that a role can be filled

sudden dirge
#

i play with other people because i feel the company

strange jasper
#

at least thats how i see it

sudden dirge
#

ok

hollow anvil
hollow anvil
proud beacon
#

pain How much pain did Sukie suffer to contributed the team

proud beacon
#

So solutions

  1. POI more loot bug (dev already looked into so it’s fine)
  2. Social skills
  3. Time efficiency and loot per person of solo in r3 (I’m lack of datas so idk how’s it go , r1 r2 is pretty stable and chill)
  4. Chat

Repost for who want to discussion. Also I think author (Alen) don’t really want to social?

proud beacon
#

And r3 is team focus.

dark grove
#

I mean, if you don't want to change yourself, what is there to discuss

#

You can't expect the community as a whole to change for you

#

R1 and R2 has always been too solo focused in terms of grinding or even general play, and the change in R3 is imo the right direction for an MMO server

buoyant trail
#

Hopefully strike design can update to match it though

#

And playerbase in general

proud beacon
#

Strike just need time and mw limit

#

Itself is at pretty balanced situation I would say

unreal flower
#

For example Wynncraft the only team focused stuff is raids everything else you can solo

rich viper
#

and not everything is team focused

unreal flower
#

The only solo content for r3 is halls

#

And the 2 wool dungeons

rich viper
#

and pois

unreal flower
#

Yeah pois too

rich viper
#

and the team content for r3 is skt and 2 strikes, right?

unreal flower
#

Godspore too

rich viper
#

you can solo godspore

unreal flower
#

You can but it is impossible for some classes

rich viper
#

well, depends, but just removing godspore from the equation for not hitting either box fully, that's... 3 solo, 3 team based

#

err, 4 solo, 1 of the solo being 13 choices of poi

true junco
#

quests are solo aswell

#

i still dont exactly get the point here, should ALL team content be made soloable? is the concept of team content even existing a bad thing?

#

i can see your complaint with godspore and savage skt

unreal flower
#

Currently we where talking about content that you can replay as many times as you lik

true junco
#

but strikes are so incredibly easy with a lfg group

unreal flower
#

Lfg Mr ends always in a disaster

true junco
#

you sure?

#

almost never happens to me

unreal flower
#

I never had an issue in r3 since everyone had the best gear and playing was easier

unreal flower
true junco
#

every time ive done mr it was with a lfg group and most of the time at least 4 people survive till the end

#

i have had to solo boss on a couple occasions though, was very stressful

rich viper
#

depends on the team, mostly, but lfg can usually handle it

unreal flower
#

I soled the last phase of the boss once

true junco
#

i still just want to ask

#

since this thread is over 1000 messages long

#

what exactly is wrong with content that requires more than 1 player and what is it that needs to be changed about it

proud beacon
#

ruins is like 85% win rate for me past 2 weeks

unreal flower
proud beacon
#

(ignore ping issue)

unreal flower
#

But my complaints with team content are that it's forced

true junco
#

and thats where i dont understand why it being forced is a problem

unreal flower
#

Like you can't get a team? screw you

true junco
#

when lfg does just fine

proud beacon
#

Ok, do you want to social

true junco
#

even in savage now

proud beacon
#

or not

unreal flower
true junco
#

you barely even have to socialize at all except in savage or halls

proud beacon
#

Like I don't know why a person will go to #moderator-help and said solo just superior

true junco
#

and halls is soloable

unreal flower
#

And for lfg you gotta wait I just want to do content whenever I want to not be forced to send 100 msg in lfg

proud beacon
#

don't exaggreavte (i cant spell)

unreal flower
#

That's why I don't enjoy content these days I can never run the fun content since lfg is still bad

true junco
#

lfg groups fill up relatively quickly

#

only time i ever see them get cancelled is like dd or ec

proud beacon
rich viper
#

had little to no issue with LFG for normal skt/mr/portal after a week or three

unreal flower
#

Sometimes

unreal flower
proud beacon
#

reputation is huge part of social.

true junco
#

so you want to social but you dont like needing to social

unreal flower
#

Wait the question was to you want to be social right?

#

If that is the question yes

true junco
#

well you can be social in group content

#

as easy as that

proud beacon
#

I meaning social is to chat with others and build up reputation

#

and like hey this guy seems nice I will try play with him/her

unreal flower
#

My last savage run went horribly I was doing it with mscr depef and some other person because depef left we had to trio it and do the fate strat wich we failed at like 10+ times and mscr left. The problem I have here is that he probably thinks I'm bad at skt and then he probably told that to other players. Not that this is the case this is just what I think happened after that run

true junco
#

yeah someone leaving a savage is absolutely horrible for the run

#

even when its just 1

unreal flower
#

I totally understand why he would leave but that's what I think happened post run

true junco
#

and that is also not really a cool move

unreal flower
#

The things about telling other players that I'm not that good is just a theory it probably isn't true

true junco
#

i think you couldve totally done it as 4

#

the mechanics are meant to require 4

#

sure they are doable as 3 but youd need even more optimal gear and skill for that

unreal flower
#

Yeah that also one issue players are aren't reliable

true junco
#

thats more an issue with the player and im not sure theres any way to do anything about that

#

the hardest content in the game (savage skt is meant to be) shouldnt be balanced with "what if 1 person leaves then it should become easier"

unreal flower
#

Yeah

#

I have no issues with team content as long as there is more solo content

#

Like raids should be team but stuff like Godspore solo mode should be a thing

rich viper
#

in the end, sounds like you have more an issue with content difficulty than you do with team content, since if strikes/skt/godspore were easier, the LFG groups wouldn't have as much issue with it

brave tide
#

if theres a solo mode then most people wouldn't be doing team content

rich viper
#

and for things like skt, would require removal of multiple mechanics built around a team doing the task

unreal flower
modest bane
#

R3 is like team content hub and r1 and r2 can be soloed

last sandal
rich viper
#

Paradox wouldn't work as is, spread would be a pointless ability, and fates would be pain

#

Not even sure what scaling paradox or fates would be except either pointlessly easy or completely remade

wanton magnet
#

if fate movement speed scaled proportionally with players, where each player scales up fate speed by 1/4 (until current speed with 4/4), it could work. That said, SKT's allure is that it requires working with people. Making it solo would kill a lot of the fun/appeal

#

basically fates moving slower means you have longer to manage them (since you need more cycles than with a group)

rich viper
#

such would require such individual perfection of the mechanics that it would likely only help those intending to hard farm the content and not open a path for general solo play

wanton magnet
#

slow fates means you have a lot of leeway, no mastery needed at all

#

Savage is soloable atm

rich viper
#

idk. Would be possible to make everything technically solo capable, probably, but it's meant as team content

wanton magnet
#

yeah, I'm definitely not advocating for this, since the allure is the group play

#

but if I was tasked with making the teal fight solo-friendly, fate speed is what I would tweak

rich viper
#

Construct is also more the solo issue with skt

#

with 2 things built around the design and core idea of team tasks

wanton magnet
#

yeah paradox im at a loss for

rich viper
#

one made pointless solo and one made impossible

wanton magnet
#

one invulnerable mob per missing team member that wanders the arena and procs steelbore 😎

rich viper
#

That or reworking spread into another thing I've seen before, but I want to save that raid mech for future things

#

either way, some things are just going to be a team task. It's a ctm mmo rpg, we got dungeons/pois, we got strikes/raids/bosses, and we got plenty of questing, lore, and storytelling

#

enjoy what you enjoy to play, it's all just a game in the end, meant to let you have fun however you find it in the game.

hollow anvil
#

it's funny because aside from paradox's time pressure solo construct is extremely chill

lament patio
unreal flower
lament patio
#

You can't not play team content with teams then complain about team content being un-soloable

unreal flower
#

I could just DM them but idk

#

Or ask them

rich viper
#

grab some role pings and just start joining random lfgs with people, improve mechanically and start to get the fights down

lament patio
#

Like

unreal flower
#

But most of the time they are full

lament patio
#

It's not really hard to get into good player's... circle...?

#

Can't find a good word to describe it

#

Like, I'm very new compared to the rest of them but I still do stuff and socialize with the rest of LxT, sometimes to Paks's... anger

unreal flower
true junco
#

i would also recommend that you just start doing more team content

rich viper
#

if you've got the fights down enough mechanically that you are regularly solid in lfgs of any kind, what is the blocker on joining LFGs?

unreal flower
#

But that's probably just me coping

true junco
#

unsure if thats a problem with /lfg or just really bad luck

rich viper
#

or positioning, any time those things come out i'm ducking behind pillars trying to melt one down

unreal flower
#

What if the boss is casting an attack

unreal flower
lament patio
#

The issue here isn't with the content design itself, it's you. Get a good reputation, be well known, etc

unreal flower
#

Sorry if I pinged

true junco
#

i think thats easier said than done

unreal flower
#

I played for 2 years

rich viper
#

rep is avoidable in larger games beyond gaining notoriety, but such is not a comfort afforded to those playing smaller games like ours

unreal flower
#

Getting a reputation is hard you can mess up soo quickly

lament patio
#

It's hard to gain a reputaton in Wynn or Hypixel unless you're really active or are a content creator, here just make good friends and expand that circle

#

Like, I've played with Gts for a total of like, 4 hours, but we vced, chatted, bantered, and now I can legally blow up his rentals shop

lament patio
rich viper
#

such is the nature of reputation, in game and in real life, especially if one shows a habit of going back to the bad ways repeatedly. it's something true in most facets of life

minor saffron
#

For large servers you have to be super prominent to get a reputation, good or bad

lament patio
#

Bad is much easier

unreal flower
#

Yep

rich viper
#

one major incident of outburst, following a pattern of questionable behavior or leading one, is usually enough to end up in a box without serious attempt at reform

lament patio
#

Even for a medium-large server like Wynn you'll have to be really active on Discord/forums/ingame shouts

rich viper
#

such is the nature of a small group

true junco
#

getting reputation on wynncraft is so easy, i just spent 35 stx on an archangel, bought like 10 more, formed a cult and now everyone knows me as that one delusional archangel madman enthusiast

lament patio
#

give me one

#

I'll trade @misty swift's Hero for it

#

fr do you actually not want it back zoinks

unreal flower
rich viper
#

it's the nature of life. it takes time to rebuild it. there's examples of it in the community, but not going to bring up examples to let the past be the past for em

lament patio
#

nervous looking around

#

that was a joke i don't remember anything embaressing i did

#

in monu

#

aside from calling lico licks

#

every time i see him

true junco
#

i do 😈

rich viper
#

lico lico leeeeee

unreal flower
#

I remember getting muted twice

#

And warned for some stupid reason

lament patio
#

If you got muted twice and warned it's not a stupid reason

unreal flower
#

I didn't know how sensitive ppl where about social credit

lament patio
#

Socialize more.

#

Back to issue

unreal flower
#

Its also the foult of the person that gets offended

#

Why get offended by something that isn't even meant to attack anyone

lament patio
#

It's your fault for offending them

#

Unless they're just oversensitive

true junco
rich viper
#

even if it didn't end in punishment, testing people's sensitivity is not usually a way to make friends

unreal flower
lament patio
#

brutally honest tldr: learn social skills, stop complaining

unreal flower
#

Complaining about something that you can't change won't help you are right

true junco
#

that might be a mild thing to get offended by but "its the fault of the person that gets offended" does not work

unreal flower
lament patio
#

There

#

There's a line between them overreacting and you being offensive

minor saffron
#

Most minor chat offenses have a warning issued before mutes to give a chance to correct the behavior

#

Obviously, if you drop the n-word you're not getting a warning but a bad joke won't typically result in immediate punishment

rich viper
#

warning ahead of mute for a chat offense looks like the case here

unreal flower
#

The two mutes where because of misunderstanding

lament patio
#

For someone I got deja vu to that one time someone dropped the n-word in (ingame) DMs, came onto Discord to complain, then got banned for having the n-word as their Discord pfp

lament patio
unreal flower
minor saffron
#

We're going off on a fairly unrelated tangent here though

lament patio
#

valid

rich viper
#

tangent, although somewhat leading to a root of their difficulties finding lfg as well

unreal flower
#

Not that anyone knows about them but they posed some difficulties on other monumenta related stuff

#

My lfg experience is as normal as everyone else

lament patio
#

yeah, just don't post stuff like this in lfg

2022-12-27_23.png
unreal flower
#

I see nothing

lament patio
#

(i found a twisted shadow swimming around, got zoinks and saint to help me lure it to galengarde, and opened a museum exhibit)

unreal flower
#

That sounds fun

true junco
#

this is due to the fact that shadows are not physical objects but rather an area where there is a lack of light due to the nearest light source being blocked

unreal flower
#

Ok so when I made this post I was quite mad at the team system and so on

#

Since then I calmed down a bit and rethought everything

#

And the main issues are

#

Me not wanting to be social

#

My massive ego not letting me see that's it's actually my foult

#

And me just coping because I have no friends

#

I realised that I was in fact wrong and that it's no one's foult

#

And also what is my reputation? It would be helpful on getting better at some stuff thanks.

true junco
# unreal flower And also what is my reputation? It would be helpful on getting better at some st...

There have been a few memorable occassions that have made people think of you as "annoying". I can remember 2 off the top of my head - that one time when you did a barrier parkour for a quest, and that one time where you chose the bad ending of that one lowtide quest. You made a big deal out of both, and it really flooded chat for a period of time, the barrier parkour one wasnt for that long though. And now your distaste for group content, that you made a whole feedback post on, might make people uninterested in doing group content with you. It seems from my perspective that when there's something you've disliked, you've made a big deal out of it. Nothing fundamentally wrong with that of course, you should express your opinions on whatever you aren't satisfied with, but those are the things that people remember about you, that's the impression they get of you. You don't really seem like that anymore to me, and now with what you just said, I do think you're going in the right direction. I think you just have to do more group content, so basically just socialize more, perhaps join a guild if you aren't in one (I actually can't remember if you're in one or not), and over time people will hopefully forget about those events and start seeing you just like any other normal player

unreal flower
lost tartan
#

cyan or whatever

lost tartan
unreal flower
lament patio
#

Shut up

true junco
#

me when upside down T 😨

near compass
#

I know for sure that 15h didn't have any negative thoughts about you until you made this post, not sure about hyperspace

#

And speaking of egos, I know people that hate my ego (which im trying my best to fix) but still hang out with me