Spoiler-chat SUBSTITUTE

[spring flare]

a fucking sword

and nothing happens afterwards

[proud berry]

It's not bad writing though

The writing comes before the scene is even made

And the story is that the Count gives Amicia flesh wounds

If anything the issue is that not being portrayed correctly

By the animation

[spring flare]

i didn't say it was bad writing either

but a flaw is a flaw and this one is a big one

[proud berry]

Was also responding to this too

That's why I mentioned bad writing

[brave shore]

They are fine showing Arnaud pommel butting Amicia in the head and showing us an entire playthrough with a head gash, but nothing when Viktor cuts her face.

[proud berry]

You're so close
That's because that was a serious wound
And Victor's cuts were not

[spring flare]

but they were

i repeat again, he hits her eye. you can realize it if you watch it carefully

[proud berry]

The fact that she doesn't suffer the same is confirmation of that
You're assuming the game forgot something when it's very intentional

[spring flare]

the first blow is at her eye level

[glass wren]

realistically after those cuts alone she shouldn't be able to even stand on her feet or move her body at all

[brave shore]

Yeah, 2 cuts to the leg, even if it's 2-5mm deep is still serious and should incapacitate someone.

But as said, it is either girlboss plot armour or not a single developer in that studio noticed anything after that scene.

[proud berry]

Again you're looking too deeply
Mocap fights are never perfect
They don't actually make contact when recording

They're recorded separately
Then put together later by devs

Or are stood apart when recording

[spring flare]

but it isn't like they don't check these damn things, no?

[glass wren]

i'm more inclined to believe this until we get a word from a developer if we ever get one

[proud berry]

They do it's just never perfect

[spring flare]

they could at least have said it breaks immersion so they could alter the aim of the first blow, idk to her arm for example

[proud berry]

And re record a whole mocap session?

For one mistake most people won't notice?

[spring flare]

i'm not saying i'm an expert at these things but i think they could've done such thing

or

[proud berry]

Not practically, no

[spring flare]

they could at least not think victor hitting amicia's eye in the first place

[proud berry]

Smh

[spring flare]

it isn't a natural thing after all someone thought and said "let's make victor hit amicia's eye"

[proud berry]

I have great evidence that he didn't hit her in the eye: She still has both eyes lmao

[proud berry]

Right but I'm saying they probably didn't intend for that
But mocap like this never lines up perfectly

[brave shore]

They should have just made him slash her face once and incapacitated her and shown it visually on her face and lifted her face up by her hair and almost cut her throat before Emilie intervened, that should have just been it.

[spring flare]

you know what? fine

let's take it that way

[proud berry]

You keep looking for something that isn't there

[spring flare]

i'm not spending my night at this cycle

i'm just saying there's a mistake there and it should've prevented

[lofty spindle]

U guys discuss a lot about such things😂

[spring flare]

it should've been fixed at somewhere

[brave shore]

I'll just leave it at plot armor/bad writing, that's it.

[spring flare]

and i'd never care about this if they didn't make literally every wound amicia got such a big deal

[brave shore]

Yeah, the wounds and progress throughout the game is a big part of the game

Except for Viktor scene

[spring flare]

if she was some sort of john wick, for example

[brave shore]

Still weird the devs didn't go back and fix it and update the game

Should be quite easy to alter her ingame model and show a flesh wound on her face for the rest of the game

But what do I know

The devs already got their money

[proud berry]

It's not though
If the point was for Amicia to be seriously injured, then she would've been
You can say that it wasn't portrayed properly
But it was written before it was mocapped
It isn't a writing issue

[spring flare]

this is the same thing as something like "oh we shot our main character 3485739857353 times in the head and then flung him down from the 72th floor of a building, but he wasn't meant to get any harm so he just walked away and got a taxi so we all are fine!"

again, i'm not saying it's bad writing

[proud berry]

Not really equivalent though

[spring flare]

but someone thought about this, some people agreed about it

and they made this thing

then they saw it

[proud berry]

The writing would've been then Amicia is struck three times but the wounds aren't serious

[spring flare]

and they said nah nevermind

if not the author's fault, it's definitely someone's fault

[mossy folio]

Never done a second playthrough of APTR

Considering it

[swift steppe]

Ok, me finally.

When I mentioned that "something foul" is at play, I meant the problem some sequels can do to their predecessor; retroactively change things, or in this case, strip them of previous importance and toss them in the dark corner.

So according to these youtubers, Vitalis is... Just not important now? To one of them, to the point where he goes unmentioned?

Well, I and others talked A LOT here about how Requiem consistently displayed a tendency to just... Avoid mentioning Innocence as much as it could, especially its more important plot-points. I also talked about how Macula suffered a soft-retcon of sorts, and most of what Vitalis and his minions did (especially the Macula-transfusion thing) is swept under the rug completely. I imagine a person who played Requiem first, then Innocence would find them pretty poorly connected, as in, they didn't quite learn a lot about the first game from its own sequel.

[solar perch]

It was the side of her head. Not eye

[spring flare]

watch that scene again, it's definitely her eye

there's no way it's the side of her head lmao

[solar perch]

If it was her eye then she would have a black eye

[spring flare]

yes, and i believe that was the point of the whole conversation

[echo lion]

I understand where you come from and nothing you say is not a fact. However, I guess we see it from a different angle; I interpeted Reqs diviation from / lack of further explaining and expanding on the original a direct consequense of Amicias changed priorities.

Pretty fast in req all mystery of the macula and it's importance from the first game just gets cast aside because Amicia has only one singular goal: save Hugo. So, rather realisticly, I think, as someone whose just learnt that her brother is dying Amicia has no time to delve into the macula and search for answers like we did in Innocence.

Instead, from chapter 4 and onwards nothing else matters in the story other than trying to cure Hugo. I see that as quite clever writing. Although the end result is a completely different game that fundamentaly is about something else in the end, then what innocence was.

I liked it, but I also agree that there is pretty much zero further expanding / explaning the Macula or the events reg Vitalis.

[brave shore]

Why does it feel like Amicia is the biggest asshole in the entire game.

Literally unlikable.

They're hanging Arnaud and she's like "Fuck him" after she put him in that situation, not even realizing or being self aware that he was right about the Count from the beginning.

[wanton pike]

Basically the entire country of France is trying to kill her and/or use her little brother to gain power. The Inquisition, the crazy villagers, Arnaud's men, the slavers, even Arnaud at first

All they ever wanted to do was live a normal life, and they couldn't do that because of Hugo's illness and people who wanted to exploit it

As for Arnaud, he was initially hostile to the siblings from the start, and only helped them because he saw Hugo's power, and saw it as a way to save his own skin

As for the Count & Countess, Amicia & Hugo had no reason to distrust them at the time. How could they have known that they would be cultists who would try to kidnap Hugo?

[brave shore]

But they should realize that the Count and Countess used them and killed their mother and she could have prevented it back then with Arnaud, now she should also realize that helping Arnaud would be a valuable asset to the team and she might have been wrong, but instead she goes "Fuck him"

[wanton pike]

How? They had literally just got to La Cuna, the island they had been looking for in the first place, and were looking for answers as to why the Prima Macula led them there. By Arnaud trying to kill the Count, they risked being thrown off the island, or worse, getting killed themselves

[woeful mango]

A sword is supposed to be sharp, but not like a saber, otherwise it would make them too fragile to the slightest shock. He didn't force it, Amicia has clothes, it's more painful than really dangerous, the real risk would be infection of the wounds and therefore her health would decline over time, not imminent death.

[echo lion]

Wow, @wanton pike ! love your PT videos on YT.

[woeful mango]

also the animations are beautiful but they are not realistic either, it is made to look beautiful, but even during the fight between the Count and Arnauld certain movements are not realistic, yet it makes the scene mostly beautiful, and it is the most important in a narration of a game halfway between realistic and supernatural.

[woeful mango]

For me it's definitly the left side of her face, she moving her head on the right.

[woeful mango]

this is particularly why you have to play Innocence first, in fact if there is so much silence on the first game it is in particular to avoid rehashing the past, it is literally a trauma. It's like talking about someone's mother on a regular basis when she's dead in their arms, no one wants that. Besides, there are essential elements in Innocence, Innocence is an introduction to this universe, and Requiem answers the questions asked in the first game. Also, there are certainly elements in "Tenebris" which better explain the transition between the two games.

[spring flare]

well, because she is

she's really an arsehole, putting hugo before everyone else

and not thinking properly, taking every single risk for no reason (sort of)

but this doesn't mean she's antipathetically arsehole

she manages to be still quite likeable while causing nothing but problem and death

[proud berry]

I don't think Amicia put him in that situation
Arnaud brought them to the island and wanted to try and assassinate the Count in broad daylight, by taking advantage of a child
He put himself in that situation

If Arnaud hadn't done that, then the whole La Cuna experience would probably have been very different
They wouldn't have even had an opportunity to meet the Count & Countess

[swift steppe]

The most positive I can say to your comment is simply, glad you liked it that way.

This angle however, is exactly what made me dislike Requiem's narrative design, especially when compared to that of Innocence.

If we go by what you interpreted and pretend it to be an actual truth to the story (i.e. "for the sake of the argument"), I must be honest and say it outright: I was never a fan of the changes implemented.

I've always been, and by all appearances, always will be of the opinion that sequels, in any medium of storytelling, should always refrain, as much as humanly possible, from tinkering with what made the original story well received (by many at least).

And again, this all is not to say I see Requiem as a "bad game", no, it's overall a solid 7+/10, but not nearly as captivating as Innocence to me. Hope we understand each other.

[echo lion]

Yeah, I understand and completely respect your view. It's like it is with all things I guess, people have different opinions. But I love to discuss and talk about this and even more so if we disagree on something, so absolutely no hard feelings mate

[elfin parrot]

Hey guys and gals, I am back after a long involuntary hiatus. Before I start scrolling into the past convos, what have you been up to? Any news since beginning of March about TV series and/or new game project?

I see some new members here, that's perfect

[ornate plume]

Hey welcome!

unfortunately there is no news. at least I didn't see it

[sudden bridge]

absolutely nothing, apart from the usual posts from the APT account on twitter and Instagram but the ones from focus entertainment seem to be more APT related including sharing some concept art from Innocence

[elfin parrot]

Damn, that's a pity. Thanks anyways!

[swift steppe]

Welcome back

Edit: Oh by the way, due to Discord's fooling around, I've had to start using this account. But it's still me 😉

[elfin parrot]

It's good to be back.

Yeah, I've seen. Had no issue with recognising you though

[burnt pasture]

maybe the rats are the good guys.

[maiden goblet]

lmao, what the.. 👀

[woeful mango]

No more 😭 but it's seems that it will be released in 2025

[lofty spindle]

What is maybe going to be released in 2025?

[radiant panther]

it wasnt even announced-

just- cmon- apt3 does NOT exist for us until its announced

and just expecting it to be released in 2025 because why exactly?

SHIT IM STUPID

getting rid of everything

im so stupid and i apologize

altho i still havent heard anything about the series too. neither the game nor series were confirmed to release in 2025. the game inparticular wasnt announced at all, the series are all quiet

[woeful mango]

In the video of a YouTuber who spoke with the director of the series (video released 4 months ago), the director says that he already has the actors in mind and that they are still in a phase of preparation and scriptwriting to launch production which will normally take place no later than 2025 (within the planned deadlines), so for the moment the most likely would be a teaser or a trailer in 2025 with perhaps the same year the release of the serie. Obviously this is a supposition, but with the information we currently have it is what seems most likely.

[radiant panther]

ooohhhhhh

so we are talking about the series after all, yeah, im so sorry, i initially thought we are having a conversation about apt3

thank you for clarifying everything!!

[woeful mango]

Don't worry, I also forgot to mention that I was talking about the series 😅

[radiant panther]

and yeah, then i guess the release year might be 2nd half of 2025/2026, but i still wouldnt count on it too much until the official announcement/confirmation or more info from leaks or other small talks here and there

just the date i mean, i dont think they'll cancel the whole thing

[woeful mango]

I don't think so either, unless he has a financial problem.

[radiant panther]

can i see the video please?

or maybe the name of the youtuber

[woeful mango]

I hope you understand french

https://youtu.be/2bq9AA3LNTY?si=PqL53N76wW-DH1hv

(Starting speaking about APT at ~20 minuts)

[sudden bridge]

least chaotic youtube thumbnail

[radiant panther]

so true hahah

[radiant panther]

[woeful mango]

Rip

[radiant panther]

[woeful mango]

no transaltion parameter?

[radiant panther]

no subtitles there, but i think ill try to use ai for translating it in real time

ill see if it works

but a bit later, probably tomorrow

[woeful mango]

Okay! good luke!

[echo lion]

Fuck me. Folks - I don't know how many times I've played through requiem but every time that scene with the count requesting Amicias presence comes up... when Amicia and the gang could theoretically sneak out and leave... I still find it fucking depressing. Ofc we don't know if things had turned out for the better, but knowing how it goes it still hurts af.

[proud berry]

Same!
Not only that moment but the whole chapter for me gets more saddening with each playthrough

It's such a gut wrenching twist in the story where everything is lost

One detail I think is absolutely beautiful but also depressing, is the Song the Night
Which if I understand Deriviere correctly is about the night being death
And passing away in the night, but death not truly coming until the morning after
The end being decided yet not happening yet

Which in a sense is about Hugo, that he truly died in Chapter 12
After he gives in to the Macula, kills the countess and goes unconscious
That's when Hugo's fate was sealed and he (metaphorically) passed away

[lofty spindle]

Well, Hugo didn't full give in to the Macula as long as he was still on the boat with Amicia, Lucas, etc.. It was only when Victor kidnapped him that his fate was decided, because when he woke up in Marseille he thought that Amicia was dead and that he had lost everything.

[umbral bay]

He commited a crime witch sentence should I give him

[long vine]

no cheese for 2 hours

[proud berry]

I could very happily play a whole game of Amicia & Hugo exploring and travelling with Arnaud & Sophia

100 hours of it

Evading the Count's Soldiers, Exploring Ruins and seeing new places

[echo lion]

I must say, Amicia really cleaned out her cabin before she left!

[radiant panther]

i mean gotta leave the house clean and steady if anybody else finds it right

but its actually so sad we didn't get to see the inside of the house

[echo lion]

Yeah, 100% 😟

[proud berry]

One of the most powerful moments in the series for me is when Amicia & Hugo leaves behind Beatrice & Lucas
It's such a bittersweet moment that paid off everything that had been building for the first five chapters of Requiem
There's the comfort and familiarity of going back to just Hugo and Amicia, and being in control of the path ahead
But also the loss and uncertainty that comes with leaving all behind
And ofc the score is amazing too xD

[umbral bay]

You know I have always thought after they left lucas and beatrice how did they know where to go

Like what way and other stuff

[proud berry]

I don't think Amicia really had a plan outside of follow the rivers out to sea
And go from there

[umbral bay]

Dang well they are super lucky to just go because If I did that I would be lost and never find people hahaha

[sudden bridge]

that moment really made my jaw drop tbh

really wasn't expecting it

I should play Requiem once again sometime

[glass wren]

All I was thinking was "they surely have a plan from here on right?"

wondering what would have happened if they never went to the island and never left their mom and Lucas there

Hugo would still not get treated and will reach the final threshold either way but the circumstances will be a whole lot different and maybe less dark and bad than what happened on the island

But at the same time that wouldn't make Amicia aware of the past carrier/protector's story which wouldn't give amicia a purpose to lay a path for future duo

[proud berry]

One other moment I love
Aside from the whole games ofc

Is in Innocence when you first see the Battlefield in Chapter 5
Everything you've already been through is pretty harrowing
But as the morbid music swells and you come across the field of nothing but dead bodies
It's very hard hitting and makes the tone for the whole series very clear

[dark seal]

The little chair for Hugo at the end of requiem besides the one Amicia sat at…ah my heart.
Another moment that stuck out to me was when Hugo found a tent in Basilius’ room. Just like when Amicia and Hugo first met.

[sudden bridge]

every time I listen to "Brother" that's what I get reminded of

[ivory lotus]

Imagine if we get an entry where the Macula evolves so that instead of the rats and the plague it's mosquitoes and locusts carrying malaria or something

[amber plover]

The rats were bad enough
How would anyone survive mosquitoes 😭

[buoyant creek]

Well darling, it would be get immune or die.

Actually that is what happened with the real life plague.

It just killed everyone who wasn't imune and when imune people were left so did she die out.

[proud berry]

I have a lore question about Innocence
So there are those Alchemists that work for the Inquisition
That work with the episanguis and so forth

I've always wondered, are they a part of the Order?
Was the Order working with the Inquisition? Maybe to experiment with Episanguis as a cure for the bite

If it wasn't the Order working with the Inquisition, maybe they were trained by the Order but work for the Inquisition

Idk I always just assumed it was part of the Order working with the Inquisition

Inquisition soldiers talk about them like outsiders, as if they've never worked with them before

[ivory lotus]

I might be wrong but I thought it was due to hygiene and not immunity.

[elfin parrot]

It was a combination of a lot of factors. Hygiene, immunity, light sources to scare off rats, livestock, cats being marked as devil's spawn, natural borders (for example British Isles were ravaged more and longer by the plague) and many more.

[proud berry]

Yeah we sucked when it came to the Plague

We had our own Plague that we solved by burning down London

Classic Britain

[proud berry]

I finished another playthrough of Innocence last night
My third

In retrospect I am amazed at how neatly the final shot of that game leads into Requiem
The camera panning upwards as the cart trundles off into the distance
Looking out into the distance, directly out to sea

And The Wrath theme plays, its drums quite similar to a lot of Requiem's themes
But also in Chapter 1 of Requiem, when you're playing hide and seek and all that
The nice happy songs that play use the same melody as The Wrath
Sonically picking up right where Innocence left off

[elfin parrot]

Who knows... I don't remember them wearing the Order's symbol though. I think they are simple alchemists not affiliated with the Order in any way.

Thinking about it, I presume Beatrice wasn't the Order's member either, just happened to know one - Laurentius - and then kept contact with others, as heard in Requiem.

[proud berry]

Nah Beatrice is a member of the order, Vaudin refers to her as magistra and treats her as if she is one
I think the order is just a very far reaching but thinly spread organization
So not everyone is on the same page or working towards the same goal
I wouldn't say they're fractured or factionalized but I think there are layers to the order
Vaudin clearly knew something about La Cuna but Beatrice was completely in the dark

[elfin parrot]

If Episanguis had healing properties, I think it would have been noted in Requiem. I don't know why the alchemists were injecting Vitalis with it.

[proud berry]

I bring this up to say my interpretation is that the members of the Order working with the Inquisition could be working entirely independently of other members of the order

[proud berry]

Hmm that's true
I don't think it stopped the bite in Vitalis
Maybe slowed it
Idk why though

[elfin parrot]

Are there any hints on Beatrice being the member? Not every alchemist needs to be a member of the Order, especially since the Order's ultimate goal is to find a cure to Macula. The less common people knows about such dangerous threat to humanity, the better to not stir panic.

On the other hand, maybe the lore of Innocence was not so heavily established on the role of the Order. That's mainly Requiem's thing

So the question is without answer

[proud berry]

Regardless of what's going on with the Inquisition Alchemists (maybe they're a separate entity entirely)
Beatrice is 100% a member of the Order
Maybe not to the same degree as somebody like Vaudin
But she is a part of it, no doubt
To the same extent as Laurentius I imagine

She works in an Order Laboratory
Worked with Laurentius on Hugo
And is officially a Magistra

[elfin parrot]

Everything can be easily explained:
• It might be a coincidence that the De Rune estate was built near an abandoned Order laboratory before it was even needed for Hugo.
• Laurentius could have been a friend to the De Runes or at least to Beatrice before Hugo was even born. OR he could have learned about Macula's existence in Hugo shortly after his birth, becoming his "doctor".
• Again, not every alchemist must be necessarily a member of the Order, no matter the title.

But for real, this topic has no apparent answer, everything we discuss is simply a view. Let's also not forget that some parts of Innocence's lore was changed in Requiem

[uneven sand]

Guys I’m about to started my 3rd play though for requiem 🙃.

[proud berry]

I wish you good luck!
Today I start a new one too!

[uneven sand]

Thanks

[amber plover]

...

I think you have a problem

[proud berry]

My plan was to replay Innocence again
And then take a break before playing Requiem again
But after finishing Requiem the back of my mind was like "Go on, finish the story again. Do it."

[amber plover]

What playthrough number is this?
If u have been able to count them 😭

[proud berry]

15

[elfin parrot]

Is it still emotional after all these playthroughs?

[proud berry]

Yes 😭

If anything playing the game again makes it more emotional
Like when you hear Hugo say "We'll to go the island and be healed"

[mossy folio]

A few days ago, I found my mind going back to APT and the huge impact it had on me after a long time after I watched a horror movie where a child suffer a gruesome death in an accident

Reason being, empathizing with kids is such a powerful thing, and yet despite the universality of this phenomenon we don't see that many games/TV productions center it

It's what made APT so special

To be clear, that horror movie didn't center it either in any way, but I couldn't get over that part. Overall despite the movie being quite effective, I found myself detesting it as basically just misery porn.

No hope, no protagonist victories (pyrrhic or otherwise), just suffering and horror

[elfin parrot]

Leaked footage of APT3

[sudden bridge]

lmao it gets spanked???

[elfin parrot]

Yes 😀

[sudden bridge]

well deserved

[full flower]

Ahh I want such massage 🤤

[buoyant creek]

Hi, everyone! Haven'y been writing in a while. School hits. 👵

I can't believe that yesterday was a 5 year aniversary of APTI.

What came to me as a shock is that on the last year's aniversary, I made an edit with the song that has a verse:,,I swear sixteen was yesterday, now I'm closer to 28". My feelings were exactly like that. I can't believe how fast time flies by.

I can not comprehend that in 3 months ,,A Plague Tale: Requiem" will be 2 years old.

I can not believe that I've been with you for 2 years almost.

[buoyant creek]

Hi, everyone! I played Hellblade 2 and can't stop but think how much of the same vibe it gives off as APTR(Though some levels are almost the same and in some music is similair).

It is peculiar because a friend of mine who is into hellblade and apti like me, stated that others besides me stated that Hellblade 1 and Apti give a similair vibe.

[proud berry]

Same I just finished it last night and I absolutely loved it

I think they tackle different topics in different ways but ultimately yeah they are kind of similar

I love them both

[buoyant creek]

I think that they did writing masterfully. Throught the game I really wondered how will they tackle going to slavers because they started focusing on giants, but ended up getting there pretty naturaly.

[proud berry]

I thought it all worked so perfectly and tied together so well in the end, there were some twists even I did not see coming
Also ||when the darkness said "But you are your father's daughter" it sent shivers down my spine, that was such a chilling moment||

[wraith forge]

Why did you like hellblade 2 so much? All I've heard from reviewers is that it's a boring and pointless game

[proud berry]

It's not, it's just not trying to appeal to everyone
It's a game that is primarily focused on story, performances, graphics and cinematic presentation
There's some other stuff too but it plays a specific way and is very similar to the first game

It isn't for everyone, which is fine I think
But I couldn't call it boring and pointless

Lots of walking
Lots of talking
Lots of cinematics
Some people prefer a more gameplay heavy game, I am fine with Hellblade as it is

[solar perch]

I haven't played it. But basically comes down to do you like "walking sims" with focus on story over gameplay

[proud berry]

Basically

So if you don't like those games you'll hate Hellblade

[sudden bridge]

I should definitely give that game a try, even from the promo screenshots it gives an APT vibe

[woeful mango]

The game is very scripted, it can please or quite the opposite, it's a very personal point of view.

[silk olive]

Mélie's statement "You know, brothers. Sometimes you want to kill them" hits different now in "Innocence".

[proud berry]

Yuppppp 😭

When I replayed Innocence recently, there are loads of little details like that
Which have come full circle now

[dark seal]

There’s an order symbol at Laurentius’ house

[reef tinsel]

Couple questions:
Amicia suggests that Hugo will be fine he isn't stressed. Does she actually believe that or is she just coping? Because when her and Lucas were searching for Vaudin, she clearly sees the dead bodies due to the Bite in the Arena. And they both discuss the fact that they most likely brought it there too. So, does this basically throw out any chance of survival for Hugo?

Not only that, at the beginning of innocence, it seems Hugo would randomly get nightmares before anything terrible happened to him. And the housekeepers even mention the rats/earthquakes on the night that he had nightmares. So the Macula is inevitable regardless of the carrier's feelings? Since he will never be able to control a bad dream. Especially not after all he's been through.

Also, was the story of Requiem planned before the release of innocence? Since it looks like Innocence has a ton of forshadowing, but if not, the connections are pure genius on the writers' part.

[wanton pike]

1. Remember, before the crew got to the Red City, they had the incident with the beekeepers where Amicia was almost killed, but Hugo saved her (albeit at the cost of reawakening the Prima Macula). It's also entirely likely that the rats were already in the Red City, just like the rats on La Cuna

2. We know for a fact that Hugo being in a stress-free environment helps his condition, because the crew had a stretch of 6 months where Hugo was perfectly fine

3. The nightmares in Innocence are almost certainly the Prima Macula f*cking with his head, just because it can

4. As for the last question, I have no idea

[reef tinsel]

Remember, before the crew got to the Red City, they had the incident with the beekeepers where Amicia was almost killed

But at the beginning of requiem, do they not go to the Red City after at most a day after the bee keeper incident? Whereas for the dead bodies in the arena seemed to be a dumping yard for infected people for a long time?

Here's the timeline in my head:

1. Hugo kills beekeepers with rats
2. Couple of hours later (not sure if they say this, but this is what I assumed, since the beekeepers are still actively searching for the siblings), they are on the road headed for the city
3. Maybe after a day, they reach the Red City
4. Hugo and Amicia go around for some exploration for an hour
5. Hugo sleeps, has a nightmare, Lucas and Amicia immediately go searching for Vaudin, and see the dead bodies in the arena that seemingly have been around for weeks or even months

2. We know for a fact that Hugo being in a stress-free environment helps his condition, because the crew had a stretch of 6 months where Hugo was perfectly fine

Hugo is fine, but it seems like the plague affects the cities around him doesn't it? At the beginning of Innocence, there's basically a full community under lockdown.

[wanton pike]

Read the rest of my first statement

It's entirely possible that the rats in the Red City were there long before the crew got there. Same as it was in pretty much every other area in Innocence or Requiem

[reef tinsel]

Ahh, so then Amicia knows that deaths due to the rats are inevitable if Hugo is alive right? I'm not saying she's wrong for that, love is truely blinding. Or perhaps she doesn't care, as long as her and her family can just exist in peace without being hunted.

[wanton pike]

Technically yes, but it's more complicated than that

Keep in mind that the Prima Macula is still a great unknown to us. Yes, the rats are an extension of it, and the deaths from it can be mitigated if Hugo is happy & stress-free (or eliminated entirely if Hugo is killed)

But at the same time, the Prima Macula is a parasite. When one host dies, it'll just find another in a few centuries. And by that time, anyone who knows anything about it will be long dead

And thus the cycle continues

[reef tinsel]

Yeah, that makes sense. One other thing I didn't understand is, why did the order go through so much pain of chaining Basilius up, building huge buildings and castles for the Carrier, when they have the simple option of killing them? Do they not know that killing the carrier ends the Macula? They already seem like they don't care much for the well being of the carrier, as shown by Vaudin's distantness and lack of any empathy.

My best guess is that they want to study it for gaining the ability to be able to harness the power for selfish/"religious"/"greater good" reasons. But I'm not sure if that justifies building whole generations of an empire solely around studying the Macula that has the potential to occur or maybe never occur, since they couldn't have possibly known about another carrier after Basilius, since he was the first and last. And other than Vaudin, I don't think anyone in the Order even knew about Hugo.

Pet peeve: Knowing what a carrier is capable of and hearing about a carrier after 700 years, Vaudin was pretty disinterested when he heard about Hugo. He was like, oh, you're the Protector. Huh, another Tuesday at the office, after the hearing about the 2nd ever world ending disease carrier.

[wanton pike]

You're right on the money

The Order knew even less about the Prima Macula back when Basilius was the Carrier, and they wanted to study him & experiment on him to see what they could do, much to the disdain of Aelia, Basilius's Protector

And when they (the Order) realized that the Carrier crossing the final threshold meant a literal apocalypse, they tried to contain it the best they could, even if they were unsuccessful

[woeful mango]

D minor ?

Well, that's a good news !

[uneven sand]

Guys the summer gamefest starts in 57 minutes

[woeful mango]

9 minutes

[woeful mango]

well now we need to wait 42 minutes

[uneven sand]

8 minutes for me

5 minutes

[woeful mango]

while waiting for the possible announcement of the sequel to A Plague Tale at the Xbox Game Showcase, what type of sequel are you expecting? Personally I would like either a direct sequel with Amicia to try to find where the next carrier will arrive, or an indirect sequel in the modern world but with passages referring to the two previous games (the best for me would be a mix of the two, with solving puzzles with Amicia to be able to advance in the modern world, a bit like The Medium, but it's unlikely).

[wanton pike]

Easy

Direct sequel w/ Amicia, Sophia, and Lucas

Wouldn't be APT without them

(Or Hugo, but that's besides the point lol)

[solar perch]

Anything but a direct dequel.
I think Amicia and Hugo are done story wise. Most I will take is a smaller game of Amicia mourning and moping.

But I would be interested in a prequel.

But other than that. I am satisfied with apt. And have no need to more of Amicia and Hugo. Their character arcs are done.

Not big on a modern world setting. APT is about Amicia and Hugo. The events are marely what drives you to like them and for them to grow as characters.

Aelia and Basil are the only link to them as of now

I think Aelia could help remedy problems people have with the game falling into "walking sim". (This obviously isn't an issue for me.)

Since she was said to be a merc so she can play as a more action based ver of Amicia.

[woeful mango]

It's true that the possibility of a game with Aelia and Basilius is interesting and possible, it could be great for learning new things about the Macula!

[solar perch]

It would be a nice parallel to Amicia and Hugo. Since Amicia did have a sense of positivity and relatability with them.

And it took place in a really dark time. Which helps build tension and even more lack knowledge of the macula. But Basil was surrounded by the order a lot who were experimenting in him. So they could also provide insigh on the macula and the characters too.

[reef tinsel]

But we kinda already know the story, or at least how it ends

[solar perch]

That's usually how prequels work. And usually if they end badly they usually play with a sense of dread until the end.

[reef tinsel]

so it might not devastate and send me as much into depression, which is what I need from a plague tale

[solar perch]

Self emotional harm

[reef tinsel]

lol, I don't mean I actually want depression, i just meant the story wouldn't hit as hard

[solar perch]

Cus according to the book. Aelia and Basil basically start as strangers. Bond over time like Amicia and Hugo. Basil getting treated really badly. And Aelia being too late when it all falls apart.

[reef tinsel]

also, how in the world did basil die exactly? Looks like no one really stopped him, but the nebula never happened

[solar perch]

Wait lemme look at my notes

[solar perch]

||They were both locked away separately. Cus the order got scared of Basil and knew they couldn't cure him. It does mention the whole Nebula effects. Which is when Aelia escaped. And Basil died causing Justinian plague||

[reef tinsel]

I thought hugo was a world ender when he got to that point, it seemed much more than what happened during Justinian.

[wanton pike]

I could be wrong, but I'm under the assumption that Basilius died of natural causes whilst he was actively unleashing the Justinian Plague

And when he did finally keel over, the plague stopped, like with Hugo and the Black Plague

[solar perch]

The notes I made about the Basil and Aelia section

[reef tinsel]

Oh yeah, about the markings on face part, when Emelie first saw Hugo, how did she not immediately recognize the scars and call him the Child of Embers? During their red-robe-ritual, either her or The Count specifically mention "the black scars on the carrier's face", or something along those lines.

[solar perch]

I guess they didn't know the "Real" Macula so they didn't know it comes with cool face marks

La Cuna has a very appropriate version of what happened

[reef tinsel]

There's a point about the Aelia being on Basil's side helping him get through the various thresholds in your notes (I heard about this in game as well). This confused me, shouldn't the Protector prevent the Carrier from crossing a threshold?

[solar perch]

So the idea is that if the protector and everyone else keeps the carrier happy and safe from basically everything, the macula can't really progress. But even during safe times the Macula will try to make progress and even cause dreams to tempt. So if you essentially lock the carrier away it will help slow it down.

Aelia being there probably help slow down the progress of whatever the order was doing to Basil. Until they got seperated.

[reef tinsel]

Oh, okay. That was what I got too, but I thought the note meant that Aelia was helping him cross thresholds without pain, giving him more controlled power or something like that.

[woeful mango]

personally I think that when the child indulges in the Macula, the latter consumes all his energy (notably vital) to spread via the rats by commanding them. Thus the Black Death would have lasted less long than the plague of Justinian because amicia would have killed Hugo before he was completely consumed by the Macula (therefore preventing the Macula from spreading even further). But it seems that the two Macula are not identical either, perhaps linked to something in the blood, the shape that the Macula took via Basilius is different from that of Hugo, one covered a building without to destroy it (some places have been very well preserved), the other completely destroyed an entire city and the Nebula (or the Macula) is represented in the form of a tree on which Hugo hangs.

[reef tinsel]

I think it could also be that Basilius may have been younger than Hugo, so his body didn't last very long. Especially all the experimentation the Order did on him. He didn't have a loving mother or sister to actively try to prevent him crossing various thresholds until he caughtthe attention of the order (after crossing the first couple thresholds I think).

[proud berry]

I'd love for more Amicia
I think she still has a lot of story left
And I think the Order have an active role yet to play, I can see the Order being the villains at some point

But if it isn't Amicia
Then a game set during the Great Plague in London, in the 1600s, would be amazing

[teal flax]

I totally agree with this, the story with Amicia is not over yet even without Huge. Also because of something that was mentioned in Oliver Derivier's composer walk-through, that Lucas is in love with Amicia. And the order would defo make a cool villain.

[proud berry]

100% she still has a lot left to work through and grow from as a person
And lessons to hopefully teach others
I'd hope the game tackles subjects like "Why not just kill the carrier?" etc
And yeah there's the Lucas thing too
But personally whilst he might think of Amicia that way, I don't think it's mutual
Not that Amicia doesn't love Lucas, but I think she might see it more platonically

[teal flax]

Yeah I also think its more platonically on her side, she maybe doesn't even realise it because she was entirely focused on Hugo. So with him absent it would be interesting to see how her character develops

[reef tinsel]

imagine in the next game, she manages to find something that could've actually saved Hugo, and potential carriers. That would be pretty devastating

[full flower]

Is xbox showcase today?

[swift steppe]

At 7 pm, mid-european time

[full flower]

What is your UTC time? Is it like +4 or 4:30?

[swift steppe]

Central European Time (UTC+01:00). At the moment where I am is 12:50, meaning Showcase starts in little over 6 hours.

[full flower]

So for me it'll be 8:30 pm

[woeful mango]

A little too long title

[full flower]

Well just saw trailers on youtube and the only thing I'm excited for is doom and unfortunately nothing from Asobo

[umbral bay]

Ssme

[urban lodge]

Hello again, I have returned to the server after almost half a year

How's everyone going

[uneven sand]

Good how are doing!

[urban lodge]

Doing okay I think

Had to take a break from everything, that's why I left the server in the first place

But now I'm back

[uneven sand]

Hopefully you’re feeling better now.

[swift steppe]

Welcome back, officially

[uneven sand]

We’re glad you came back

[urban lodge]

I am, thankfully

I see people here talked about the showcase of yesterday

[uneven sand]

The Xbox showcase? Well they show a new doom game, flight simulator but nothing about a plague tale unfortunately.

[urban lodge]

Yeah I saw the showcase

It was somewhat annoying seeing Asobo's name show up only to be about the flight Simulator

But at least Doom and State of Decay saved the day for me

[uneven sand]

It’s was definitely doom that saved the showcase for me but other then that it’s was ok in my opinion

[urban lodge]

I agree

There was some other interesting games but nothing too crazy

Perfect Dark and that 5v5 card game were cool

[uneven sand]

Yeah I felt the same way too.

[swift steppe]

True there. I was about to mention the possibility of something more interesting appearing on E3, but then I remembered E3 is no longer a thing 🫤

[uneven sand]

RIP E3 ✊😔

[urban lodge]

Since the expansion of FS is due to the end of this year they will soon start working on some other project (maybe APT), if they haven't already

[swift steppe]

As we know, Asobo is divided into several teams, one is specifically working on things like FS, other (we can assume a bigger one) on more narrative-style titles.

[sudden bridge]

my man is finally back

[lofty spindle]

Hey guys, if you want to check out why you hear nothing about apt 3, go look in the general chat😉

[elfin parrot]

It's really nothing new and nothing to be afraid of. It's a trade secret keeping the game studio safe, mainly financially. Most of game studios choose this approach.

[elfin parrot]

I had a thought a few days back - If we get an APT3 following the story of Amicia, there is a very high possibility of Lucas becoming a full-time member the Order (he is currently studying, though it is not specified where or who is teaching him). And upon reading some drafts on the possible story of third game on subreddit, a lot of them suggested Amicia might be on rampage against the Order. You know where this is going...

What are your thoughts on this? I think that after everything that happened throughout both games, Amicia has seen both kind side of the Order (Laurentius) and evil (Vaudin), and she doesn't have a reason to be actively hunting down remaining members of the Order.

[dark seal]

I feel like Lucas wouldn’t want to support the order after learning what he did about Basilius and Aelia. If he does join the order, I imagine he tries to change their ways

[wanton pike]

I feel like The Order would definitely have a part to play

Think about it. Amicia is, at this moment in time, the single most knowledgeable person on the planet when it comes to the Prima Macula. She would most likely want to share that knowledge so that the next Carrier/Protector duo didn't go through the same thing she and Hugo did

But at the same time, is that what The Order wants? Or do they have a different ulterior motive?

[urban lodge]

As much as I agree with what you stated, I feel that Amicia's knowledge on the Macula is almost useless to the next Carrier and Protector, she can't make another elixir without Lucas and the forbidden book, and simply saying "go live somewhere safe and keep yourself calm" seems like such a basic and cliche solution to the problem

[elfin parrot]

Lucas would be a hot stuff for the Order with his personal knowledge on Macula and its effects. And his former master was Laurentius, who was a member too.

On changing the Order's strategy, there's not much else to do. It seems the Order tried to experiment on Basilius to find a cure, but then it was already too late to kill him and stop the plague from spreading.

What can Lucas do differently in this situation? ... The only thing that comes to my mind is to create some sort of peaceful sanctuary far away from civilization for carriers to live in.

[zenith charm]

A plague tale 3 when ?

[elfin parrot]

This. It seems that Macula is documented well enough. Just to give an example, even Lucas knew right away what the Nebula does. Amicia can't add much value with her knowledge.

[elfin parrot]

No idea, nothing is confirmed yet, not even if Asobo's next project is APT3...

[zenith charm]

Only Santa can help withe this one I guess

[urban lodge]

True, but it wasn't quite what I meant.
At the end of the day Amicia knows nothing of value that would do any good effect. She could save them of time of confusion and straighout tell them what is going on, but once they ask for a solution there really isn't much she can say...

And I am talking only about Amicia's knowledge of the situation

Don't forget it took her, Lucas' knowledge and experience, a forbidden book (possibly written by the Order) and a high tier lab to create a temporary solution

[elfin parrot]

A temporary solution that the Order possibly already knows about and could replicate. It would be very weird if the former members of the Order hid a recipe that could help the carriers to some extent, so that next generations wouldn't be able to brew the potion at any time.

That would be completely unreasonable and in direct conflict with the Order's effort.

[urban lodge]

I kind of get why they would want to hide the book honestly, it's because people like Vitalis exist.
The Order was foreshadowed in Innocence once again when Rodric mentions "monks that didn't talk much" that asked him and his father to build the door that hides the library. The Order knew that people with bad intentions and alchemy knowledge equal to them could try and take their books and recipes.

[elfin parrot]

Then again, what would Vitalis do with the potion specifically?

It's a pity that we don't know what else was in that book and why exactly Vitalis needed it. (Or it was and I am remembering it wrong?)

Anyone? Why did Vitalis want the forbidden book so bad?

[urban lodge]

I vaguely recall a voiceline of his where he talks about why he wants the book, I am going to see if I can find it

Okay, it wasn't as important as I thought it was, he just says "with your brother and that book, I can save the world", meaning he probably expected the book to help his alchemists take even more advantage of Hugo

[proud berry]

I definitely think the Order have other motives
They give me Bene Gesserit from Dune vibes

[elfin parrot]

Maybe Vitalis only thought it was important. I don't remember the details though, it's has been quite some time I last played Innocence

[proud berry]

I wouldn't be surprised if they actively manipulate things years in advance to try and take advantage of carriers
If you look at the way Basilius was treated he wasn't just a test subject to be used to try and see if it could be stopped
They treated him like a new Byzantine Emperor

[elfin parrot]

Could be. It is strange how well was Basilius treated in and by public, when "imprisoning" him in the temple in the mountains could have been enough.

And the Order surely knew Basilius was not some form of deity (unlike general public). Maybe they fed this idea to not raise suspicion.

[urban lodge]

Maybe its because of how well he was treated by the public that he held out for so long, either the Order's pressure was too much or people stopped worshipping him (or both)

However in Innocence it's stated that the romans worshipped him in silence too

[proud berry]

I think whilst the Order probably do want to create a cure or something for the carriers
I'm not sure whether it is being done benevolently

[elfin parrot]

Maybe both. It is possible that they stopped worshipping him out of fear of rats, which were more numerous after each experiment...

[proud berry]

Probably to control them and others
And then using the Macula to get what they want

"Give us power or we'll wake up rat boy" etc

[elfin parrot]

I can imagine a powerhungry fraction of the Order wanting this, not the Order as a whole.

I think that the Order as a whole still wants to protect common folk from the Macula by understanding it, no matter the cost.

Meaning torture of the carrier is fine as long as there is a chance it benefits everyone

[proud berry]

I think there are people circles within circles in the order
Laurentius knew more than Beatrice, Vaudin knew more then both
And there's probably people above him
So yeah the Order could definitely have some power hungry fractions or inner circles
Maybe they think if they are in control, then the common folk is safe

Both of the Macula and the people

[urban lodge]

Welcome to the utilitarianism view of the world

That seems to be how every organisation acts anyways

No doubt the Order was willing to do some sacrifices too

[elfin parrot]

Exactly. It may seem evil to some (e. g. Amicia), but from a broader perspective, the Order most possibly do so to help people.

[proud berry]

On a slightly different note
The Order could make for interesting enemy types
Like an Order enemy who can use alchemy against you
Extinguis your fires etc

[urban lodge]

That's the whole dilema with such view. It seems rather positive to most people besides the ones that are affected personally by it.

Both Bas' situation and the end of Tlou1 share this ethical problem, if it's okay to risk a person's wellbeing for the sake of the majority of the population

[elfin parrot]

That's for sure. Could be interesting

[burnt pasture]

Hello, all my plague tales

[swift steppe]

Yooooo

[burnt pasture]

Hi

[swift steppe]

Long time no see, as some would say

[burnt pasture]

Ya

[scenic tiger]

hi my friends I'm back after almost a year of not using this discord

any new APT drama ?

[wanton pike]

Not really. Still no news of a new game

A little more activity on the subreddit, but it's mostly photos or new players finally finishing Requiem

[scenic tiger]

there will be something at the end of this year

like we all theorized

[fallen cosmos]

I love A Plague Tale.

Thats it. Thats all I came here to say

[fallen cosmos]

Here’s a question I hope someone can help me out with

APTR is my favourite game. What games would you recommend that a fan of this would enjoy?

Looking for some new experiences but hesitant on where to start

[elfin parrot]

Well, both APT games are heavily inspired by The Last Of Us, so if you did not play it yet, it's a good start.

[proud berry]

Hellblade

And oddly enough the Witcher 3

The Witcher doesn't play similarly but I find they share similar vibes

[lofty spindle]

Hey Guys, I‘ve been away now for several months, I guess no one remembers me😅

I was recently talking to a person who works at Ubisoft. I had told him this dilemma about the sequel to Requiem. I also asked him what he thought would be the best way to continue the plot in the third part.

He told me sth. like: „Financially, it would be a big factor for the developers to bring Hugo back. Because firstly, the fanbase loves him and everyone felt like crying when he died. Now imagine APT3 comes out and the story of Amicia and Hugo is not continued. This would probably annoy the majority of fans a lot and might make them not want to buy the game. I just think it would be the best decision for them financially to bring Hugo back, because then everyone would buy this game, especially if they've already played through the second part. Because why would you suddenly want a new story??“

„And the chance of Hugo living is not even small here, because there are so many well-explained theories, such as the illusion theory, which is completely understandable and comprehensible. There are even some clues in the game that make you wonder what they mean and that there might be a twist in the next game.“

The person comes from Ubisoft Belgrade, he is a very good friend of a colleague of my uncle.

Let me know whatcha think😄

[woeful mango]

But Asobo could have made a more unanimous ending for the fans, a happy ending. But they didn't do it, Asobo is not really governed by financial interests like some other studios, they invested a lot of money in the second game when they could have made a much simpler game which would still have pleased the community, staying within what the first game did, and yet they made one of the most beautiful narrative single-player games of their year and are still one of the most beautiful games. I think if they made this decision it would be more to please the fans than to sell more games.

[glass wren]

two games in and there still no discovery of a permanent cure for Prima Macula. hopefully in next game we'll see one

[fallen cosmos]

I so badly wish I hadn’t missed out on the collectors edition of Requiem. Only place to get one now is on EBay for £800. To be honest, I’m close to biting the bullet and paying that for it

[proud berry]

Same
Aside I'm not close to biting the bullet

[proud berry]

I'm gonna be honest chief I don't think there is one

[swift steppe]

Yo yo yo I you weren't forgotten rest assured (at least not by me 😁)

[woeful mango]

Does anyone have any guesses as to what town Amicia and Mélie are going to in innocence?

The only element that I managed to find based on an existing location was the gate of the fortified city of Carcassonne.

[wanton pike]

IIRC there was a post on the Plague Tale subreddit that drew similarities of that town to a town in real life, but I have no idea where that post would be (if it even was on Reddit lol)

[woeful mango]

We would have to find the university where Amicia meets Rodric (inside or outside the building), to assume a possible location in relation to the context of the game. For the moment Carcassonne is the most likely city, because it is not very far away of Guyenne.

[teal flax]

The walls and fortifications look like Carcassonne, then in the city Amicia passes through a gate which is inspired by this one in Bordeaux

The university is a fictional building, same as most other buildings like the Inquisition palace. However the cathedral where the final fight between Vitalis and Amicia + crew takes place is Notre Dame de Reims

And these aqueducts where the inspiration for the ones that lead to chateau d'ombrage

Requiem is in that regard way more interesting because they used way more realistic buildings and styles, for example the byzantine architecture for the structures by the order below la cuna

Lmk if I should make a breakdown what I recognised so far in Requiem

[woeful mango]

I also remember recognizing the interior of the cathedral where the fight takes place, I don't remember which one yet but it was another cathedral, there is a lot of mixing of several medieval monuments in the game.

[sudden bridge]

plague tale so good they made the game into real life

[woeful mango]

I think I understood that when Lucas says "he will kill the sun" when talking about the nebula, it is in fact a phrase that refers to Hugo, because Basilius is often represented with a sun behind him, the sun must mean "the carrier" in the order. In addition the order is depicted as a phoenix, this could assume with the cybolic of the phoenix that the order is at the origin of the macula, and it is logical, they could create the temple in less than 8 years from the birth of Basilius? apart from knowing in advance what they are doing and therefore building them all over the planet before the bearers even appear. Basilius is designated as the bearer of the prima macula by the order, the goal of the order was therefore perhaps to create a new world by destroying the old one, this would explain why their castles, their palaces, their temples, their laboratories are hidden, because the powers already established were trying to stop them.

However, in the mosaic of the theater of La Cuna there is the chapel with a sun depicted behind it, except that it is Aelia who was imprisoned there.

[proud berry]

We know from the main theme of the game that Hugo is the Sun and Amicia is the Moon
I've never understood why the Carrier is the Sun, but this I think is a good reason why!
I definitely think that the Order are up to more than just making a cure, I think they also want to control the carriers to a degree
They had Roman nobles funding their operation and coming to La Cuna to worship Basil, so they were definitely using him

[glass wren]

and order failed in both

[woeful mango]

I'm trying to animate a 3D model of Amicia, damn it's hell to do an animation

[glass wren]

If permanent Boathouses existed in Plague tale, that would have helped Hugo i think since the house would be on water so no rats

[solar perch]

Then the Macula rats evolve to be waterproof and swim

[elfin parrot]

That wouldn't work, because...

[glass wren]

lmao

[urban lodge]

@ornate jackal

Absolutely agree, modern day setting would bring issues to every possible extent

Due to the reasons you have already said (public lights, rat poison, flashlights and other stuff), it makes it so it's not a good setting for what made A Plague Tale a challenge for Amicia and Hugo

Not to mention the obvious, neither of them would be present in the modern day scenario, at least not directly

All in all, the best way to keep the story and lore as concise as possible is to either do a good closure with a final third game still in Amicia's era, or simply end the series here as it is

[teal flax]

Yeah, also from a marketing point of view I doubt a game setting in the modern world would attract many fans, one of the core aspects of a plague (for me at least) is it's setting in (mostly) realistic 13th century france

[woeful mango]

Amicia Innocence Chapter 17/ Chapter 2

[umbral bay]

Where do you find these

[woeful mango]

I extracted the 3d models from the game

then I retextured the models because the textures were no longer applied to them

the next models I will try to do Hugo and Beatrice

[woeful mango]

The problem is that the software that allows you to export the files in a usable format crashes on certain meshes

[woeful mango]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-X3yzcvSYv/?igsh=MWI2dWN6M2txY254YQ==

The greatest goat of Requiem

aplaguetale

Today's post is dedicated to the great Arnaud!
Despite a rocky start, he proved to be an invaluable ally to Amicia and Hugo during their journey.

What's your favorite memory of him? 🤔

Likes

1636

Instagram

[proud berry]

Every single memory!!!!

[sudden bridge]

the character models are downright exquisite

[solar perch]

https://youtu.be/HG_mvw79g-o?si=jolFSH3p5YPPr0xp
Speaking of which
If you bored and got time you can watch this

[proud berry]

I love Innocence more and more with each playthrough
Maybe one day I will go in depth with my thoughts about it
But yeah after this time finishing it I was left just like "Man this game. It's just amazing."

[buoyant creek]

New Plague Tale?

[proud berry]

I am hoping!

Deriviere said a new game he worked on is being shown there

[solar perch]

Probably Dying LIght

[uneven sand]

Guys any luck ?

[proud berry]

Not yet

[solar perch]

Olivier's game was Dying Light

[proud berry]

Nothing at Gamescom

But I missed this yesterday

https://x.com/fr_poket/status/1825526592854229350?t=-PM1hiFcmc-YOzJIjD5MWg&s=19

Poket Tale 🐀 (@fr_poket) on X

@oderiviere @gamescom Vous pouvez pas un peu nous donnez des infos sur A Plague Tale 3 ? 😂😭

Twitter · Aug 19, 2024, 1:33 PM

[woeful mango]

😩

[proud berry]

Considering how many times he's said an outright No
I take this as significant

[woeful mango]

Which day for the gamescom ?

Okay it's today 😱

just 1h30 to wait

[woeful mango]

wait

ok I'm stupid

[woeful mango]

maybe tomorow 😅 😭

[fallen abyss]

maybe thats a old message but i gotta admit that innocence had more beautiful environment but when put side to side with a plague tale requiem, its obvious that the two games have two entirely different art styles. While Innocence is focused on capturing beautiful and sometimes breathtakings scenes, Requiem was more focused on complete and total realism with every single detail in place

[woeful mango]

Agree

I think it's due to the studio's greater resources for the second game, they were able to take advantage of the success of the first game plus the revenue generated by Flight Sim.

In the first game, focusing on environments that look like photos or paintings was a way, I think, to save resources while having a very beautiful rendering, but therefore much smaller areas (in some passages it's corridors, even if they also tried areas with more freedom).

[swift steppe]

Uf, respect for managing to go that far back in the chat, I doubt if I could ever...

[fallen abyss]

thank you 😄 i just discovered APT had a discord server with other people that actually love this game, I've never befote met someone that has played or even heard of this game, i only introduced it to three friends and they loved it but im really happy to see theres others like me that like the game

[proud berry]

@fallen abyss

There are some theories based on some grey area details with how the game is presented that suggest that Hugo could be alive

But personally I do not subscribe to these ideas
Everything the game puts forwards is about letting Hugo go, the whole first five chapters are supposed to be a demonstration of the anxiety and discomfort Amicia feels at being separated from him

And later the game is quite open with the fact that Hugo is doomed, like all other carriers, and that Amicia is somewhat blindly the only person that believes he can be saved

I think Amicia is the last person to realize, after even the player

At the back of my mind I was already beginning to fear the worst when Hugo saw Amicia seemingly die
But once the cloud exploded in Chapter 15 whilst we were fighting the count
I began to realize that the reality of the situation was going to end up being, before Amicia did

[fallen abyss]

sorry for taking so long to respond, i was in a long conversation

[fallen abyss]

i personally believe the Macula within the carrier can be stopped, we see that in requiem where the Macula is further described and we find that the Macula works like a curse rather than a sickness, its also often referred as "The First Corruption" or "Curse" , "Doom" which feeds on the emotions of its host making it more and more destructive, the Macula's ultimate goal seems to be to kill, steal and destroy everything on its path but that also depends on whether the Carrier gives into the Macula and lets it take the lead which in a total submition to the Macula results in becoming One with the Macula. Hugo repeated the same mistske as Basilius. But i believe if the carrier had his protector and everything was okay like it was on the 6 months on the road, then the plague would stop and the carrier would live

even in chapter 1 we see how Hugo's black veins have already healed, leaving only scar marks on his skin but as soon as he realized his sister was in danger of bad people, his whole look changed, try to pay close attention to his facial appearance when Remi (the bad bee dude) slapped Hugo on the ground and held down Amicia to murder her, Hugo's face completely changed from afraid little child to like letting the Macula take over him, he looked angry and confident all out of the suddsn and then he passed out as soon as he gave in to the Macula

||oh and also, one of the reason why Hugo might be alive even though he is most likely not is that the Macula is more than just rat control, the Macula also protects its host making them more durable, and even though thats nowhere mentioned we can see an example of it when we fought Vitalis who needed 3 rocks in his forehead from a close range while helmetless to be taken down, and still he didn't die immidietly after even the third shot in the head. When Amicia shot him the first and second time Hugo said "I can hear the Macula screaming in his blood" The Macula is very well aware of its host and seems to enhance the survivability of its host by a lot. If Amicia/Lucas really shot Hugo it is very possible that he would've survived duo to the nature of the Macula to defend its host, but they might've not realized it||

oh my gosh ive written so much, im sorry if this seems like a lot for you i tried to be short

[woeful mango]

I also think the same thing, there is an element that goes a little in this direction without really being a proof, but in the passage where Lucas and Sophia are freed after the Nebula has appeared, Lucas says a sentence, he says "it will kill the sun". we can see two meanings there, the first is in relation to the fact that it will hide the light of the sun and therefore spread darkness on the earth, but I think there is a second reading, very often we see synonyms for the sun and fire in relation to the Macula, the child of embers and the Order, this sentence is obviously of alchemical origin and therefore linked in one way or another to the order, and if the term "sun" was not a metaphor to speak of the carrier of the Macula? so the sentence "it will kill the sun" can have this second meaning of reading where it would also mean "it will kill the carrier"

[proud berry]

||I don't think this is valid evidence though, they're different games and it's just a boss fight mechanic||

||There seems to just be a rule of 3 for bosses in Innocence, Nicholas also takes three hits to kill. Although those hits are with rats||

[proud berry]

Maybe he would be healed, maybe he wouldn't be
I like to think he would be if he went to that retreat in the mountains
The Macula feeds off negative emotions and whilst you can't cure it, giving it no consistent food vastly weakens it

But
The point isn't about whether that life would cure Hugo or not
It's that the world (of a Plague Tale) isn't a nice enough one to allow such a happy ending
Hugo had peace in Innocence, until the world (the Inquisition) invaded his bubble and ruined it

Everyone's fate was sealed at the end of Chapter 12 in Requiem
The song The Night is about dying during your sleep in the night
And that if you pass away in the night, nobody will know you have died until much later when the sun rises and the world wakes up without you

The song plays at the beginning of the Chapter, namely for Beatrice as she dies in this chapter too
But The Night also plays after Hugo gives in to the rats, kills Emilie and everything collapses
Because metaphorically speaking, that is where Hugo died
Not only was his worldly fate literally sealed because the Count would come for revenge
But also because Hugo was never the same after this

Even after he recovers from the shock in the following chapter, Hugo acts very differently
Hugo snarling and saying he'll kill everyone if they don't reach Arnaud in time is not something he'd have done prior
The post chapter 12 Hugo is not the same as Hugo before that
That Hugo is gone
Later in Chapter 14 Hugo asks if Amicia if she thinks he's changed, she says no, but it's very easy to tell that Hugo doesn't believe her anymore

To further add to this
The song that plays as you visit Hugo's Grave in the Epilogue chapter is Ô ma Belle lune
Almost a song that is mourning for him

At the beginning of Chapter 13
After everything has collapsed and Hugo has gone into shock
The first song that plays is Ô ma Belle lune
The song that closed the previous chapter being The Night
Which further adds to this being Hugo's metaphorical death, or point of no return

But the reality is why do people want Hugo to be alive?
Not to be Morbid, but there is seemingly no cure for the Macula
And to add to that
If he somehow did survive, there's no way to go back to what was lost
To go back to the Pre-Chapter 12 Hugo
It would be the same disillusioned, impulsive and uncaring Hugo from Chapter 13 onwards

I think it's important to contrast how much we'd love for Hugo to be alive with the reality of both what that entails, and what the game says

[proud berry]

I hadn't thought of this before but it makes a lot of sense!
And yes Hugo/The Carrier is the Sun
Amicia/The Protector is the Moon

The Carrier is referenced as the Sun in Innocence
And the lyrics of the Requiem theme are almost like Hugo and Amicia talking to one another, where Amicia is referred to as the Moon

I'm not sure why the Carrier is the sun, but the Protector being the moon makes a lot of sense
Not only are they almost cursed to deal with the rats and darkness, but they are the light in the dark

[dark seal]

The sun probably has to do with the phoenix

As for the protector being the moon, I like to think about it like how the moon reflects the sun’s light. The protector only useful to the order because of the carrier. Similar to how the moon is only useful to us as a light source because of the sun reflecting on it

[fallen abyss]

there was a collectable in Innocence in Chateau d'ombrage which was a green lion devouring the sun, and then Amicia sees it and says "A green lion devouring the sun, i hope its not a prophecy" if the sun is Hugo then the green lion is most likely the Macula because by the looks of it the Macula has a very similar color and the nests and nebula often vary in such color as of this lion

[fallen abyss]

the game is supposed to give a logical explanation for things happening, for Nicholas he died on the third hit but that was because the game gave him heavy armor set on fire, they had to make him kill them a few times so it can be logical, same thing with Vitalis, they had to give him more health than a normal human in a logical way so their excuse to do that was the Macula within. And also, Innocence and Requiem are heavily connected on story, there is no contradictrions and everything seems to be written perfectly matching through both games to be able to fit together, such as that green lion collectable i mentioned above even though that was for another message

i do understand Hugo is most likely dead and even IF they revived him they would have to have a miracle happen for him to regain control, and even though at the top of my head i can think of stories that do that very well its very unlikely for the story writer to do that in a sequel because:
At the end they already introduced us with a new carrier and because the most logical thing to do from this point on is to let go of Hugo's story, and as much as i dont like that i have to accept it. ||But i reallly wouldn't mind if the story writer chooses to bring back Hugo in a logical way even if it takes a miracle||

i like these discussions lol, im glad im not again the only person that has done a research on the story

my friends that played through both games said this is their GOTY and even though they really liked it they didn't replay it anymore

meantime im a player since 2021 and i still love the game just as much

[woeful mango]

before I thought that the moon and the sun were a reference on one side to the carrier and on the other to the Macula, because one in some way reigns over the world of the day, like Basilius who was considered a king, and the other reigns over the night, and that the two take turns to reign over the world, and which could have said that when the sun dies there is only the moon that reigns over the earth.

[woeful mango]

yes I thought about it too but I didn't want to make too quick a connection so I didn't mention it, but it goes in the direction that the Sun would be representative of Hugo, that would explain why he is also in this castle.

by the way I just remembered that after killing Hugo the sun reappears in the credits.

[proud berry]

In the Chateau D'Ombrage there are the three symbols
-The Blood drop (Macula)
-The phoenix (the order)
-the moon (the Carrier)
And they're all converging in the order symbol, the centre of which being ofc the carrier

Which makes the whole map and tomb of Basilius thing work even better

The chapel is the Protector
But you could make a case for either the Sanctuary or the Palace being the Macula or the Order
I'll say Sanctuary is the Order and the Palace is the Macula, as we find the nebula beneath it
The there's the child of ember cult there

And then of course
The Carrier is at the centre of the map, quite literally

[proud berry]

I think there are plenty of ways to continue the story without Hugo
I know we all love Hugo
And he is so integral what makes the games special
BUT
When the story of Innocence was going through its first iterations, Amicia was originally solo until Hugo was created
It's always been Amicia's story, not Hugo's

There are plenty of sequences without Hugo and the game works just fine without Hugo
Again, the first five chapters of Requiem
But also much of Innocence
Whereas a game with Hugo but no Amicia would just not work at all
Everything Hugo does as a character revolves around Amicia, everything he means to the story is through the context of Amicia
What he means to Amicia etc

So a game without Hugo could work
I think the most likely scenario is Amicia and Sophia sailing and travelling and finding the next carrier and protector
And helping them
Or something along those lines
Maybe a year or so after the end of Requiem

[proud berry]

Yeah but you're trying to apply logic and explanation to things with no discernible logic or explanation
Soldiers with more armour than Nicholas die in one rat swarm
It's just gameplay mechanics, especially in Vitalis's case

And thing is this whole point is countered but the fact that there's an ending where Lucas just shoots Hugo with a crossbow and it gets the same result as the Amicia slingshot one

[fallen abyss]

the big heavy guys who had a ignited weapon worked similar to the one of Nicholas and they werent as easy to kill with rats because of that, but nicholas had the ability to ignite his entore armor and sword all at once which made it so much easier for him, so that fire armor is not only a thing with Nicholas

[fallen abyss]

everything Amicia did was about Hugo and for Hugo, i don't see how will a third game with Amicia happen if it is just Amicia and Sophia, the next carrier will be born in 700-800 years since Hugo which means Amicia wont be alive during these times, all she can do is try to predict the Macula and lay down secrets for the next carrier and protector that are supposed to lead them in the right way

Hugo was my all time favourite character of any game ive ever played

it really played with my heart so badly when i got to the end of Requiem after so much waiting for that game to release

i still dont understand why there is people on steam rating requiem negatively with the reason that "Hugo is so annoying"

there's even people who were happy that he dies

i would surely play the third game if there is such but i dont think i will ever like it as much as i did the first two, i just dont see how can they possibly make me more attached to a character than they did with Amicia and Hugo

[proud berry]

Just wanted say the gap between the carriers thing isn't true!

Carriers are far more common than that
There have been many between Basilius and Hugo, for example

However most of the carriers die at some point
Either due to abandonment, being killed or from passing the thresholds
One thing that's stated in Innocence is that each threshold risks killing the carrier as they cross it
And the most carriers do pass away at one threshold or another
But if the only carriers were Basilius and Hugo there was no way this could be found out as they survived theirs

However what is unique about Basil and Hugo, and what only does happen rarely, is a carrier that reaches their power levels
Which requires surviving all the thresholds
I don't think it's as extreme as every 600-700 years
There was another massive plague outbreak in the mid 1600s
But it's still very rarely

So it is entirely possible to see another carrier in Amicia's lifetime

However whether that carrier will make it as far as Hugo did is a different story

[fallen abyss]

at the end of Requiem we see the next carrier being far into the future in modern times

also, the Plague is not that common

if it was every once in a while then there would be short plagues before they pass the treshold at which they die

[proud berry]

Yeah which wasn't too uncommon for medieval times
Not always the plague, although it did reoccur, but small outbreaks of death and disease were common
Just not international pandemics

And there's nothing to suggest that the Carrier in the post credits scene is the next carrier after Hugo
Plus everything the Plague Tale team has said suggests that the cutscene isn't meant as a tease but instead to represent that the Macula never goes away
It will keep coming back for humanity to deal with

[fallen cosmos]

Just wanted to throw my two cents in on a couple of points here

Regarding Vitalis and him taking 3 rocks to kill, I think that was simply boss fight mechanics. It was to extend the boss fight and make him seem more menacing. I wouldn’t read too much into that

Secondly, As much as I dislike it, I do think Hugo is dead. I feel like if they brought him back for a third game it would almost give that same vibe of “it was all a dream” that we see in Movies/TV shows that may leave some fans of the game feeling a little cheated. That being said, I don’t care how little it makes sense, I don’t care if it takes away from the ending of Requiem. I just want Hugo to be alive but unfortunately I don’t think the writers will feel the same way

Lastly, I love these games so much ❤️

[dark seal]

Part of the issue of not having Hugo, for me at least, is that no Hugo means no rats…the rats are what makes plague tale unique imo. They’re what the gameplay is based off of.
I can sort of see Amicia having a solo game if there are rats there…maybe the macula is still there because Amicia was the one that killed Hugo…not the macula…so did Hugo even pass the last threshold if he was killed during it?

[wanton pike]

No Hugo means no rats

Not necessarily. Basilius unleashed hordes of rats when he unleashed the Justinian Plague. The rats aren't specific to Hugo, just Carriers in general

Did Hugo even pass the last threshold if he was killed during it?

Yes. That gigantic explosion during the beach fight in Chapter 15 was Hugo willingly giving himself to the Prima Macula, thus passing the final threshold

My personal issue with a 3rd game is not having a companion as a secondary protagonist. Throughout both Innocence & Requiem, we as Amicia have Hugo to accompany us for the majority of the games. A 3rd game, assuming they don't go the route of Illusion Theory, wouldn't have that, and would feel slightly disconnected from the other games in that sense

[dark seal]

I can see Lucas or Sophia being secondary protagonists…or even Mélie

[proud berry]

This is one thing I've thought
The image of the hand holding
And all the little animations helping each other
Are iconic to the series at this point
And idk how they'll keep doing it if Hugo stays dead

Then again I think Asobo aren't afraid of taking risks or committing to something for story purposes

[solar perch]

I think that is the benefit of being not so mainstream. You can take more risks with either gameplay or ploy without mass outrage or questioning.

[sudden bridge]

and I just think this community is so much nicer than others, and more accepting

[swift steppe]

Well.. Yeah, but don't idealize it, even this community, despite being more niche and just better than most mainstream ones still can and occasionally does display the same old shortcomings that others have in stocks.

[urban lodge]

It's not that it's nicer and more accepting, it is just a small community, that's all. Usually the small the community the less conflicts you'll see

[swift steppe]

Being smaller often has, at the very least, the illusion of being more accepting and nice.

In the case of this particular community, my personal impression is that it, generally, IS more tight, balanced and less brainrot-inducing, but has the potential for it just like any other community (let us hope this potential stays unfulfilled).

[woeful mango]

I have a small hypothesis about the rats, the macula is looking for a carrier to become prolific and extend its destruction. The thing is that Amicia and Hugo are related by blood, Amicia is also part of the blood line that can be contaminated by the Macula. Maybe by the mere presence of the blood link the rats could be attracted to Amicia, or worse, the macula could sleep in Amicia's blood and end up waking up. As a reminder in chapter 15 of Innocence Amicia feels that something is wrong, she is not reassured, and in chapter 12 the rats know that Amicia and Lucas are trying to create a cure. In Requiem in chapter 13 she talks to "nests" of rats and they react to what she says, in chapter 15 the rats react to them and chase them when they are in a cart, but do not kill them, and in chapter 17, while Hugo is supposed to be unconscious and totally occupied by the macula, the rats move away when Amicia and Lucas approach (even if there maybe Hugo is controlling them). There are probably other ways to explain these elements, but for me it is that Amicia can manage to feel at least the rats or the rats can feel Amicia.

[dark seal]

Does anyone have a map of La Cuna?

[solar perch]

This is actually quite funny

[sudden bridge]

they're so similar wtf

[proud berry]

I think the Plague Tale ones
Especially the Requiem ones
Work super well
Not only are they snippets of moments from later
But they have so much meaning that get attached to them

Like every time you boot up the game after realizing that's what's going to happen to Sophia's ship

[long vine]

I noticed that in photo mode, at the beginning of getting to know counts family, you can already spoil yourself that Victor is an enemy for Amicia and Hugo, in photo mode.

[swift steppe]

That, and also when you use the photo-mode for Hugo in the Nebula at the end, he is not in the "Hugo" slot even though it's still offered, but "other characters and animals". That's... An interesting occurrence, to say the absolute least...

[proud berry]

Some interesting things I've noticed so far on my new Innocence playthrough:

These trees (pic attached)
Robert remarks that they planted the larger one when Amicia was born
Which means the smaller one was planted when Hugo was born!
Just kinda cute and imo ties back into the end of Requiem, especially with the mountains in the background

Second thing
Whilst sneaking out of your home with Beatrice and Hugo
Beatrice comments that you need to get out of there quicker
Because this attack has awoken what's within Hugo and it'll only grow quicker whilst you're there

Innocence is very vague about it, but Requiem is very clear about how being threatened or under great stress can greatly feed the Macula
And cause it to not only grow in power and spread through the carrier quicker, but also do all the stuff we saw in Requiem
But I'd always thought Innocence is kinda vague about it
But this, alongside Vitalis' torture of Hugo, confirms to me that this was always the case

And thirdly in regards to potential future places the story could go
One thing that strikes me as interesting is that whilst Beatrice is cold and mean to Amicia
Thoughout most of the series
You know, "Mum my one constant friend in my life, my dog, brutally died"
"Who cares lol, I'm busy"
There does seem to be some greater purpose to her charging Amicia with the care of Hugo at the end of the opening Chapter
She could've easily fled with her children but stops, tells Hugo to go on and talks to Amicia
Then willingly stays behind
She didn't leave Hugo with Amicia because there wasn't enough time
I feel like there was a greater purpose to doing so
I think the truth is that the Macula & Carrier absolutely need a Protector to be able to grow and survive
But maybe Beatrice felt she couldn't be that for Hugo, or maybe mothers can't be the protectors of their carriers
So decided to place that burden upon Amicia instead

Please don't think too deeply on this possibility, just go with me here
But if there's a future game where Amicia finds another carrier and protector and helps them
It could be a perfect opportunity to explore that, and maybe get some closure on her feelings towards her mother

[sudden bridge]

Do you think Amicia will live long enough to encounter the next carrier?

or are there multiple carriers in the world at the same time?

[proud berry]

Absolutely yes
Either with a dormant bloodline, like Amicia
Or just not having it awake within them yet

I think the Macula returning in a host so soon
In any meaningful capacity
Would be unlikely
HOWEVER
This is the greatest most apocalyptic Plague ever
And in terms of irl years the games are only just over halfway through it

So if there was a time for the Macula to immediately hit respawn, it would be then

Though in terms of within Amicia's lifetime
Yes absolutely guaranteed I'd say
Maybe even a few
But unlikely that any would survive long enough to be Hugo/Basil powerful

At the beginning of Innocence the Black Death had already been going for two years
And at the end of Requiem, even with the year jump, there's still three years to go

I'm waffling on but going by real world history
Even after it ended for several generations after there were echo epidemics, smaller local outbreaks in the decades spanning aftershocks of the black death
In universe it's likely the Macula tried to make a big comeback but the carriers kept dying before crossing the final threshold

[proud berry]

Another thing
When you're fighting Vitalis
Every time you injure him he draws on the Macula for more power, by giving himself up to it more and more
And after the first two rock bonks
He starts saying stuff like "I have sacrificed my body to become the crucible in which all things unite"

I fully believe if he survived he'd end up going the way of Hugo & Basil, and was well on his way to creating a Nebula

I think it's worth noting though that whilst they do use flowery language
The Alchemists are right that the Macula is a power that can change the world

Though I think ultimately, like many corrupting evils, whilst at first one might give themselves in for normal reasons
Basil to rebel against his bonds, Vitalis to bring forth a new age and Hugo to strike back at the world that took everything from him
But ultimately even if this is why they give in to it and use the power to reshape the world through destruction
Ultimately, like how there is only one Lord of the Rings, the Macula isn't something that can be controlled
And eventually I think this willing submitting is what it needs to take control

Also I'd like to add that whilst yes, nobody looks down the camera and exposits this directly, the Macula is different for each carrier

Not only do they have seemingly different powers, different negative emotions and different uses for the Macula
But different triggers and thresholds
It's something Lucas remarks in Requiem
That the Macula isn't just growing stronger, it's adapting and pushing the Carrier through different thresholds

This pretty succinctly explains some of the key differences imo
Hugo's Macula is different to Basil's
It feeds off of their own personal negative emotions, and grows with the carrier
So it makes sense that it would grow differently
Even if ultimately the same fate is met

A somewhat basic but apt comparison would be the Symbiotes from Marvel, and how they take on traits from their attached host

Also last point
I trust Lucas on most things
He's an exposition character in both games
However he's very clear on that his knowledge comes from the Order
And that the Order aren't very sure about the later stages of the Macula
Probably because it's so rare and dangerous, to say the least

But yeah Vitalis got me thinking because although he is an artificial carrier of the Macula
He is still one
And I think he gets left out of discussions about the Macula carriers

[proud berry]

I've been doing some reading on medieval concepts of Natural Law
Namely things thought and written by Thomas Acquinas
And I have come to the very clear conclusion that the Lucas line at the end of the game is entirely misunderstood
This brought back memories of discussing it in my philosophy and ethics classes lol

Natural Law does not refer to the Laws of Physics
It's a separate concept entirely
But essentially that whilst there were laws of the state, and laws from God
There seemed to be more common, human laws that existed independently of that
Most notably observed in the fact that in places separated from Divine Law, morality and order still seemed to exist
So there had to be a common Natural Law of morality that governed natural things

Natural Law is a whole long thing I won't get into
But effectively Aquinas believed that natural law was the moral nature of god that had been built into human nature
He said that the fundamental principle of Natural Law is that "Good is to be done and approved, and evil is to be avoided"

And this
"Yet it is natural for man, more than any other animal, to be a social and political animal, to live in a group."

So Natural Law is actually largely a moral theory, about the common good and working together for the betterment of all in society
To make judging morals under Natural Law easier, Thomas Aquinas had five absolute primary precepts that all rational humans follow

One of those is Life and Preservation
Which isn't just about the not killing
Or just about humans
I think it can be summed up by this
"Every substance seeks to preserve its own being according to its nature"
Which means it belongs to Natural Law, alongside Humans

I don't think I'm explaining this the best but bear with me pls
So preservation doesn't just mean our modern concept of protect yourself at all costs
It means continuing to live, not wanting to die
It means not wanting to harm others and to do good, to help preserve society because it helps preserve you and everyone else
But it does somewhat refer to survival instincts

I highly recommend people research this if they don't believe me, because I am struggling to explain this 😭

Now
Beatrice refers to Natural Law when talking to Lucas in Chapter 2 of Requiem
They're studying an old text, and Lucas is struggling to understand Substances, Natural Law and the Macula
That he doesn't get the logic of it

Beatrice tells him that "All substances obey natural law, the Macula does too. You don't need logic, you just need to be human"

This is in line with what Thomas Aquinas thinks
That animals, substances and all other things that humans use in society are subject to natural law as well
As they play a part in Human life and preservation

So when Lucas says that "All Natural Laws stop here"
He's not talking about the laws of physics
He's talking about how it (the Crucible) is beyond rationality, and doesn't adhere to the Natural Laws anymore

Because

• This substance, the Macula, is no longer obeying humans
• Hugo/The Macula chose to destroy society and humanity, and the Macula is continuing to do so, which goes against many natural laws
• Hugo no longer believes in self preservation. He knows he must die if the Macula is to end, and is no longer concerned with his own wellbeing. He also knows what happened to Basil, and likely wasn't concerned with self preservation or his own life when he gave in to the Macula.

The game also refers to other medieval medical theories btw
The Balance of his Blood is used to refer to Hugo's condition all the time in Requiem
And whilst that could refer to the Macula, it could also refer to the Four Humours
However I'm not about to explain another medieval theory 😭

[proud berry]

More Requiem thoughts to spam the channel with
Although I think Amicia is primarily supposed to parallel Arnaud and Victor, as they are two possible paths she could fall down
I think there is supposed to be a slight connection between her and Milo

I think the blood leading the way for the Child is very, very reflective of all the violence and death Amicia has partaken in for Hugo's sake

She too has left a trail of bodies for him to follow

I love Chapter 10 and Milo as a villain
For Hugo his fervent belief in the child, and all the bad things he does in the name of that, really freaks Hugo out
How could people be so horrible because of him?
I think it's part of why he unleashes the rats
Not just learned behaviour from Amicia, but also feeling super conflicted about what he and his power means to others
And the consequences of that

[dark seal]

I wish we saw more of Milo

[proud berry]

Same but also I think he served a purpose and was a very good addition to the story

It both serves to force Amicia to be violent again
And also give Hugo a lot of character progression

Hugo loves the world and hates people like Milo

[dark seal]

i have a question to discuss

why did beatrice isolate hugo from amicia before innocence if beatrice knew about the importance of the dynamic between carrier/protector?

[rare wren]

Potentially because protectors are not necessarily siblings. Aelia might just be the soldier assigned to Basilius. Perhaps some carriers never crossed the threshold that made a protector necessary. Vaudin only gave up on preventing/delaying the next threshold once Hugo reached another threshold. Given a high enough mortality, a protector is almost always redundant.

[proud berry]

Because she's a neglectful mother, but also because I think she was trying to see if it could be cured first

Then when it couldn't, she put Amicia into a situation where she'd become his Protector

When Amicia and Hugo flew the estate, there's more than enough time for her to escape with them
She knowingly sends them off alone, and puts Amicia in that position

[rare wren]

The Order may not consider a protector a good thing. Without a protector, it is easier to do their "research" and increases the chance of the carrier to not reach the final threshold, thereby saving many lives. Not that I would advocate this and the quotes do some heavy lifting.

[solar perch]

I don't know if Beatrice knew about it before Vaudin. Order is very selective with what they teach.

But not all carriers had protectors either.

[elfin parrot]

Interesting idea, never thought about it that way

But it definitely makes sense

[elfin parrot]

If Beatrice knew about protectors, maybe she thought she herself was Hugo's protector. Treating him, taking care of his well-being, maybe even playing with him (though that's debatable due to how cold she is to Amicia in the very beginning of Innocence).

[urban lodge]

Hello

Guess who´s back

Again, for the ... time (I lost track xD)

Nice to see some new faces around here

[solar perch]

Heeey

[elfin parrot]

And just like that, ancient heroes gather once again before The Game Awards in hopes of seeing Asobo's next project

But in all seriousness, what would you like to see at this year's TGA?
Personally, I wish to see a teaser of Asobo's next project as well as some news about Silksong.

[solar perch]

I wonder if there will be a gta trailer

[elfin parrot]

Maybe. They might considering GTAVI is nominated for most anticipated game

[urban lodge]

The probability is high, the game is supposed to come out in fall 2025, and there is still at least 2 more trailers (story and gameplay) to show

Let's also not forget that it's been more than a year since the first trailer 😅

My hopes for TGA are some news on Subnautica 2, Silksong, GTA 6 and maybe, just maybe, what Asobo has been up to

[swift steppe]

@urban lodge yo welcome back

[urban lodge]

I returned for several reasons, but I guess the most important is that I'm less than one month away from Christmas vacations, so my university obligations are close to the end

A few days ago A Plague Tale came to my mind and I remember how much I miss it

So I came back

[dark seal]

Praying for plague tale 3 though I know it’s unlikely

[urban lodge]

You can always dream 😅

[dark seal]

I did have a dream once where I was playing plague tale innocence but it was a chapter that wasn’t in the game

I actually had one for requiem as well where Hugo was in a tower and amicia had to get to him. She kills Emilie and victor is at the top of the tower so amicia goes in but Hugo saves her with rats

[swift steppe]

Great achievement! @wanton pike's Illusion Theory video has just reached two hundred likes, congrats 👍👍👍👍! 🥳

[mossy folio]

I just finished Arcane and as with any show that I like that I finish, I was feeling sort of gloomy... And thought again of APT. And this server. Good to see you guys still posting here now and then. This franchise could make a grand return,and I hope it does. But I see someone here saying APT 3 is unlikely, why's that?

[swift steppe]

Great to see ya again 👍

[mossy folio]

I make it a point to keep my connection with my various Discord servers alive

What brings us to these servers is so much more genuine and real than what drives most of our real life social interactions

Discord servers are invaluable

[rare wren]

I think it depends on what you expect from APT3. If you insist on a sequel with both siblings without changing the dynamic between them, you kind of run yourself in a corner. The voice actors don't get younger and Asobo seems to enjoy not doing the same kind of game again and again.

[mossy folio]

I insist on Illusion Theory. xD

And you'd be surprised at how young even old actors can sound

[rare wren]

Many do and I never said it is impossible or that I dislike the theory. Just more unlikely than other expectations.

Those were just some reasons that came to mind when thinking about how somebody would infer that APT3 is unlikely. Though I had trouble finding any recent message, that say that APT3 is unlikely.

[rare wren]

While old actors can indeed sound young, imitating how they sounded when they were young is way more challenging. Normally, they can choose a child voice that is more compatible with their adult voice. Even then, those actors typically have few voice lines because it is difficult to keep the voice consistent and it is straining as well.

[proud berry]

This is one thing I don't see brought up much
Even if Hugo survived unharmed and continued on right where he & Amicia left off
It would not be happy
Hugo changes a lot throughout the course of Requiem
After Chapter 10 with the Slavers and Chapter 12 with his mother, he's a very scarred and very different boy
There's no way to reclaim that Innocence

Hugo went from "Tee hee I'm going to play hide and seek in a field and ignore our problems" to "Amicia if you don't save Arnaud right now I am going to MURDER everyone on this island"

I can't blame him though I'd do anything to save my King

[swift steppe]

Considering how Requiem ends, saying that "both siblings without changing the dynamic between them you kind of run yourself into a corner" is kind of beside the point, because having a game like that is pretty much a physical impossibility now, since you can't possibly have the third game start with Amicia and Hugo going around as if Requiem never happened or anything approaching that, it's an absurdity.

If the Illusion Theory based scenario does pan out in any meaningful way, especially the "Hugo is not dead" component of it (I certainly think it's a key to a sequel with actual potential), I wager Hugo and Amicia won't realistically meet until at least half-way of the duration of the story. And even then I can't imagine them establishing a concrete mutual interaction until at least two-thirds in.

However, on the other note, I don't think a third game that keeps Hugo and Amicia in the focus and directly refrains from introducing any new (main) characters to replace them is inevitably writing itself into a corner, at least not any more than other potential options for a sequel would, though in their own different ways.

As far as I'm concerned, Requiem's ending as it is has already written them into a corner, so much so that any expected avenue would generate at least some division.

[urban lodge]

APT3 is unlikely at the moment since Asobo said they were somewhat tired of working in this franchise, it has been more than 7 years.
They also have not said anything about APT for ages now, no communication at all.

Past game events have shown that they were working on an expansion for Flight Simulator, and the hirings for APT Team don't mean anything since it's their main story game team.

Finnally, on a more personal and subjective note, Requiem's story was wrote in a way that almost impedes APT3 to be made in a logical way. Too much narrative barriers imposed by Requiem that are very hard to break.

[swift steppe]

Yup.

That ending, but also the entire premise in the last half/third of the game is basically the epitome of writing oneself into a corner.

It's not outright impossible to construct a third-game plot in a reasonable way, even the most outlandish versions of our vaunted Illusion Theory (😁) aren't beyond it, but in any case, it would require such leaps and brand new lore explanations, that I think they should've started working on that front right now, through, for example, more books, comics, graphic novels, and preferably, DLC, like Aelia and Basilius story to show us more of how Macula works and what it can do.

It should be noted though, that Asobo's "we're tired of rats" statement is almost two years old now, many things could've changed in the meantime.

[solar perch]

For those who believe apt is the dynamic of Amicia and Hugo, your likelihood of having a sequel with our without them is unlikely. With our Requiem played out, realistically it isn't going to happen.
If you want more Amicia, the most I could see is something smaller and shorter about her thoughts and feelings shortly after.

You can have something outside Amicia and Basil if you think it can work outside them. Maybe a direct sequel or anthology type. But you run the risk of moving away from what many consider core and having to love up to Amicia and Hugo when compared to the slightly messy lore which some may or may not find interesting.

I'd personally vouch for a dlc about Aelia and Basil dlc/short game type of thing. It is indirectly linked to Amicia and Hugo, and we have some idea and emotional investment to that duo too. And I can see it building upon the lore in the game and books and living out the tragedy and hopelessness of the events we hear about happened.

[rare wren]

Moreover, even if nobody demands for a sequel without changing the core, my purposefully absurd example ends up being the biggest common denominator, given the large amount of deal-breakers I have seen on this server. There is no shortage of developer statements that are even more explicit about Hugo changing throughout Requiem and the permanence of his death. Anyway my point was not to say this particular sequel is impossible, it was that there isn't one answer, but many, each depending on the expectations.

[swift steppe]

given the large amount of deal-breakers I have seen on this server.

What is that even supposed to mean? I'm guessing the imperfection of my knowledge of the English language has finally started creeping in.

There is no shortage of developer statements that are even more explicit about Hugo changing throughout Requiem and the permanence of his death.

I've no intention of disputing the obvious, many of us (you included, I haven't forgotten you) have been very active on this server and generally inquiring when Requiem was still very fresh out of the oven and Asobo hadn't yet gone full AWOL, around almost two years ago. However, this line of yours appears to me a gross overstatement; as far as my memory serves me, where we've had the staff's opinion of the story displayed would be: an interview or two by Kevin Choteau very early into Requiem's "life", few YT video commentaries by Deriviére and if I recall correctly, an interview by Renard, the writer-in-chief. Oh, and Anna Demetriou and Charlotte Mcburney had their own little live-streams, almost forgot about it.

Anyway my point was not to say this sequel is impossible, it was that there isn't one answer, but many depending on your expectations.

That the expectation and wish for a sequel depends largely on our own personal expectations is kind of the whole point, or at least its biggest part.

I, for my part, have never (at least I think/hope so) openly presumed that my own preferred scenario for a potential third game is the most likely to happen, were a third game to ever come. I've merely devoted a great deal of time, analysis, energy and text into outlining why I am of the opinion that such a scenario (Illusion Theory) is my, by far most preferred avenue, and as you might imagine, the two are quite different fundamentally. If a third game does ever come and it doesn't employ any element of the Illusion Theory, I would, naturally, be massively dissapointed, but not in any way or form surprised.

[spring flare]

If there will be any sequel at this point, which I think will definitely not be —given by Asobo's absurd silence over the matter— it definitely shouldn't be about Amicia and Hugo. Nobody liked it when I said this long time ago, but if Asobo is "too tired" to work on APT and is dedicated to allow all the things they build to collect dust, they at least should consider discovering the other parts of the world. There are so many places to discover and so many stories to witness in this world, and it still baffles me to this day how so many people are willing to ignore all these and have another game based on Amicia and Hugo because apparently APT is nothing without these two

Don't get me wrong, I like them as much as the next person, but are they really the backbone of the world of APT? Would it really be so bad to explore people who are unrelated to the two and places which just aren't a part of medieval France?

And it doesn't even have to be like Assassin's Creed or something. Just new people and new places with their own stories

[swift steppe]

Are you asking me? If that's so then YES, they are THE backbone of entire A Plague Tale franchise, as far as I'm concerned and that state of affairs better not be meddled with.

Also, this part catches my attention:

And it doesn't even have to be like Assassin's Creed or something. Just new people and new places with their own stories

Here you kinda seem to be trying to forcefully reconcile two apparently irreconcilable notions: the universe-expansion that you've mentioned here IS Assassin's Creed-like expansion, and there's just no wheeling around it. If they did even one game like that (let's say in China or Egypt or wherever), it'd set a blatant precedent and the doors for the "milking" option for the franchise as a whole would be wide open now.

I just cannot logically conceive of Asobo doing another game called "A Plague Tale" with different characters, location and time period (exactly like AC), and then just stopping. Especially not if it were to prove financially successful.

[rare wren]

With deal-breakers I meant any change that would make you or anyone else prefer never having a sequel compared to a sequel with said change. I agree, no shortage of developer statements was an exaggeration, though I would say the list of yours is quite long for such a small team and they are quite clear about it, without much room for interpretation. Oh, there has been a misunderstanding, I thought you saying that my original message is kind of beside the point meant you disagreed that not all expectations for a sequel are equally likely.

[spring flare]

Please, Asobo, I'm begging you NOT to make any sort of creative sequel whatsoever and use the Protector/Carrier cycle with Amicia and Hugo over and over again for the next morbillion years and never even mention the existence of any other human being whatsoever so that the series can remain loyal to its core and backbone 🙏

What the fuck is variety anyway

[swift steppe]

Oh ok, understood. Yeah, in that regard I do have a lot of deal breakers and I'm essentially not open to anything other than the I-Theory based scenario. I know the limitations of such extremist view, but I don't care, my arguments make enough sense to me tbh.

Honestly? My list isn't quite long, at least for me. Anna and Charlotte haven't even talked a lot about much other than their own parts in it. The development, so they somewhat fall out of that category. Deriviére, who is good chums eith Renard does have some legitimacy in whatever he's saying, but it should still be taken with a massive grain of salt. That leaves us with these two guys.

And no, I don't recall disagreeing that all expectations have equal chance of panning out, I think we did misunderstand somewhat.

[swift steppe]

Your aggressive, immature posture and snide, hyperbolic remarks aren't strengthening your position in any way whatsoever, just so you know.

You asked me, I answered, if we disagree, it's not a tragedy. Cool off now.

[spring flare]

I'm just saying what you want to see. What you're irritated is what you want

[swift steppe]

No, that's not what I want to see, you apparently got high on your hyperbole and have accidentally projected that utterly flawed view onto me. And I don't even understand the second sentence, so... whatever.

And as for the "wtf is variety" part, I'm pretty sure if one craves variety so much, making brand new IPs is just for that, even if it is more labor and resource-intensive. After all, if Asobo means to grow, they ought to start diversifying, and the notion of forcing "variety" into one, single "flagship" franchise is not something I would ever welcome in any situation, with any developer.

[rare wren]

Anna and Charlotte yeah you don't see the body but that's to do with the sort of disrespect while Seb(astien) Renard watched and commented. https://youtu.be/XOBpq-zEtmw?t=2160

[swift steppe]

That's a nice catch, tho I think there were some other messages, the writer did leave quite a dozen comments, but I may be misremembering.

As for this comment in particular, if that were really the case and THIS (disrespect part) is what it boils down to, it's kind of...

One of the lamest ways of going around it. It displays gross lack of idea/inspiration, especially since I've been studying scenography and visual composition; I could immediately think of 3-4 ways where they could've shown or at least implied his death and body where it leaves no doubt whatsoever, but also spares the audience of the worst of it.

[rare wren]

Oh, Anna and Charlotte said it, not Renard, but they are "good chums" as well. Anyway, there is no way to be sure.

[swift steppe]

As it stands: his body and death weren't shown sufficiently (not even close), even when HoAPT is brought in, and as such, it leaves the door reasonably open for this avenue.

My point is again: it's possible and I hope for it, but I'm under no illusion that it's the favourite among known/available options.

[swift steppe]

Oh right! And as I entered the video the first thing was Charlotte going like: "I think he's dead" or something. True, we just have no way of knowing for sure.

[rare wren]

Oh, that I think he's dead is related to whether chat preferred Amicia to self sacrifice to safe Hugo as the ending. Bad timestamp

I think one of your main points was that the memorial at the end of the Epilogue cannot be a grave. In the distant past I wrote about the fact that even if Amicia could move his body all the way to that mountain, the church wouldn't allow it.

[swift steppe]

I don't remember this at all: it's for the first time that I see church brought up in almost any capacity.

My point about it not being a grave but a cairn was/is in response to the "See? That's his grave, he's under there, dead" folks. And in the literal apocalyptic environment at least a few good kilometers around the Nebula, I don't think any church people would've cared, or even realized what was going on.

[rare wren]

Historically speaking people turned to the church in trying times. The control of the church was actually the weakest when people had few problems and not big problems. Anyone who saw you would almost certainly report you and volunteer out of fear that your unfaithful action would cause the next apocalypse.

[urban lodge]

Almost everyone left the city as soon as the Nebula started spreading. Pretty sure noone, let alone from the church, stood by to see what was going to happen (assuming they could even see anything in the first place)

[rare wren]

And what about the villages she would need to pass through on her way to the house?

Trying to avoid them doesn't work either.

There were always many people living around the city walls, where the Nebula was "contained".

[swift steppe]

Yeah... Amicia (Requiem-Amicia specifically) doesn't seem at all like a girl particularly inclined to give a fuck about what some priests or monks would tell her. I think this whole hypothesis is stretching it in its own way.

All in all, in this unprecedented situation, church would be lesser of the problems.

Either geography, or his body not being there at all would be a lot more pressing.

[rare wren]

And there is a reason why corpses are always cooled down. Transporting an uncooled corpse over long distances is certain death, even without needing to climb a mountain. This is the reasons why not even rich people were transported to the graveyard where their family was, if the distance was too long.

[swift steppe]

Which leads me to ultimate (ok semi-ultimate, I'll leave them some benefit of doubt) conclusion: they reeeeally didn't think this through apparently...

[rare wren]

I thought we all agreed that the stones are not Hugo's grave.

[swift steppe]

The uncooled corpse in the summer (Marseille episode happens around June/July) is a nasty prospect, which further undermines the "Hugo is buried in the mountains" statement many have endorsed.

[swift steppe]

Well experience taught me that no, many do/did believe he is buried there...

[rare wren]

Oh, all should have been everyone that supports the illusion theory. I was kind of confused how Hugo can be both alive and have a grave. 😂

[swift steppe]

"All"? Clarification?

[rare wren]

I didn't mean that all support the illusion theory, but all in I thought we all agreed that the stones are not Hugo's grave. Brain fart from my side.

[swift steppe]

Ah ok, understandable.

[dark seal]

i think what would be really cool is if we got a few graphic novels. these could be considered seperate from the games universe too

we already have tenebris, so books aren't completely out of the question

but the graphic novels could explore aelia and bas, what amicia does after requiem, what lucas does after requiem, where melie went, etc, without disrupting the canon of the games

so that those of us who yearn for more plague tale content have it, and those who don't really care for sequels and are content with the games as they are now dont need to worry about changes to the lore

[solar perch]

Supplementary stuff would be cool

[proud berry]

I don't think this will go down well but I think it's absolutely baffling that Hugo being dead is not the given for most people
I don't mean just presenting alternative theories or speculating whether something else could've happened

I mean the absolute baffling takes of "Well we didn't see a body" "Hugo being dead is only a possibility we don't know for sure"
Like be for real
It's the most likely and obvious outcome
I'm fine with suggestions otherwise but this should always be a given that he probably is dead
As that is what the game very bluntly spells out

In discussions nobody should have to prove that Hugo is dead, that's just silly

[rare wren]

It isn't even unprecedented to show a dead-looking body, later revealed to be a double or in an artificial coma. There would be theories even if they showed the body. What isn't possible in an illusion?

[proud berry]

Exactly lol
Again I don't think this'll go down well but I think the theorizing about Hugo being alive comes very, very close to just being in denial about him being dead

It's not common that it does, but I've seen it before

[swift steppe]

Don't be silly, if that were the case, almost none would've entertained the possibility to any serious degree, regardless of Lucas' otherwise potentially relevant "all natural laws stop here" statement that came before. Were we shown even glimpses of Hugo's remains, at least through Amicia and Lucas' mourning, the illusion part he implied would've, for all intents and purposes, fallen down the toilet. Some miniscule percentage might have still been suspicious, but they would be massively stretching it from the start. This? Nah, this ain't stretching it all that much.

[proud berry]

Lucas's natural laws statement isn't really relevant to that though
It keeps being misinterpreted and misused
It means the medieval Christian philosophy of Natural Law

It doesn't mean the laws of physics or reality anything, it concerns human nature more than anything

Self Preservation being one of the first and most important facets of that, according to Thomas Aquinas

Something that Lucas and Amicia are very clearly disregarding

[swift steppe]

It appears you have forgotten something (understandable, it's been more than a year) so I'll remind you, as kindly as I can:

• You and I - DO NOT speak to one another. Ever. Is that understood? You do not address me, I do not address you.

Also, your argument is horseshit. Now pretty please, with sugar on top: screw off.

[urban lodge]

😶‍🌫️

[swift steppe]

To everyone else who is relatively new to this server and may be taken aback at my sudden loss of cool and temper, I apologize to you; it's a complicated and old matter which I didn't forget. Let's just say he and I have a history and he's just violated my main rule: we do address one another directly.

[proud berry]

Get over yourself pls

[swift steppe]

Do not get on my nerve more than you already have.

[proud berry]

It's just discord bruh chill out

[wanton pike]

Imma nip this in the bud right now

Let's not do this here

If y'all wanna bicker, take it to DMs

[urban lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/a-plague-tale-a-plague-tale-requiem-lucas-a-plague-tale-lucas-thinking-gif-17122792266980248006

[swift steppe]

I said what I had to, it's up to you if I will repeat myself.

[swift steppe]

My conscience is intact, I made it abundantly clear long ago that for him, directly addressing me is off the limits and I stand by that. He violated it, I responded accordingly.

[proud berry]

Bet

[stoic wraith]

in a much much less deep manner, other than like plot armour why didn't amicia die like eight times

[urban lodge]

There's no other reason aside from plot armor

[stoic wraith]

Ok fair

[mossy folio]

OH MY GOD THE WITCHER 4'S FIRST TRAILER JUST DROPPED ON YOUTUBE
HOLY FUCK

[swift steppe]

Now let's also have APT3 trailer sometime in December and your "perfect month" is complete eh? 😅

[proud berry]

It's insane I'm so happy
I love the Witcher 3
I can't wait for the next game

[proud berry]

If not in December hopefully early next year 🙏

[urban lodge]

Early next year we'll probably have another gta 6 trailer

[swift steppe]

Lol, did you see this flop of a trailer by Naughty Dog ? 🤣🤣🤣

[urban lodge]

Intergalactic? Yeah I did 😂

[swift steppe]

LMAOOOOOOO

[wispy fiber]

Why is it a flop?

[swift steppe]

https://fictionhorizon.com/gamers-tear-into-naughty-dogs-latest-trailer/

[solar perch]

Game looked fine to me. Not into the whole rage bait r/tlou2 troll sub either

[swift steppe]

Oh, and again more dislikes than likes, and again shutting down the comments and so on lol

[swift steppe]

Whatever. Fanboys of that .... have equal claim on "troll-ery".

[swift steppe]

As for this... Their image hasn't much improved, especially not since they AGAIN announced another TLOU+related remaster/remake/pc port/whatever.

[wispy fiber]

It seems it more like people are just upset it's that developers are branching out to try something new, fans of previous games were expecting perhaps same setting, similar characters. That and other people just being idiots about female being bald, I imagine. But I wouldn't call it a flop, just people being cunts.

[swift steppe]

Nope, in all the multitude of possible and present types, many, many those on the negative spectrum have a point.

Reducong them to "just cunts" is... Whatever.

Naughty Dog's reputation took a hit for a reason.

[solar perch]

ND main problem was that they weren't making new games. Which they have announced now. And releasing smaller or outsourced stuff to buy time in between

And with how AAA projects scale now, yeah it's seems about time for them to announce their new project

[swift steppe]

That was not their main, nor only problem.

[solar perch]

I personally don't have a problem. I didn't finish U4 cus it's not for me but it was well made. And I like their other stuff too and thought it was great.

[wispy fiber]

I did not read the full article, only skimmed through it, but people that comments things like: "Cyberpunk’s gay cousin" or "‘Make The Last of Us Part II, sell half of what Part I sold because people were sick of the girl boss agenda. Double down with a bald-headed space lesbian saving a diversity-obsessed guy.’". These people constitutes as cunts in my book since this is not a reasonable criticism, these are just cries from people that did not get what they wanted.

[solar perch]

Gamers were a mistake

[swift steppe]

I would be last to endorse criticisms based purely on "wokeism" or support for LGBT, but as I said: the willingness to criticize and make fun of them (Naughty Dog) by the public, i.e. the results of their long ruined reputation are on them and them alone, and trying to portray it merely as gamers themselves being the problem is disingenuous, simplistic, and overall completely wrong.

[urban lodge]

I am actually very pleased to see them doing something else that isn't The Last of Us related

They were exagerating with the remakes and remasters

It's not that I find the new ip they are doing to be particulary interesting, we also have too much galactic stuff nowadays, but at least it's something different [from what they were doing]

[proud berry]

I just got a new dialogue I haven't heard before
For losing the pot throwing game in Requiem Chapter 8

Some playthroughs I do all of them
Sometimes half
Sometimes I miss each one

Usually I get the dialogue where Arnaud makes fun of Amicia for missing and Hugo immediately interrupts and is like "Don't listen to him Amicia I think you did amazing"

But this time, the 18th time, I got
Arnaud: "Well, having some trouble with the old right hand?"
Amicia: "Seems like it, how about I train it on your face?"

Idk whether there's intentionally rare dialogue but there's been some lines before I've only heard in that single playthrough

[elfin parrot]

That's a really good response, genuinely made me smile

[wanton pike]

Late Christmas gift for myself 🥳

Been meaning to get these for a while. The combination of Christmas + the store shutting down gave me the perfect excuse lmao

[dark seal]

I got the same thing!

[swift steppe]

Nice !

[solar perch]

https://vxtwitter.com/APlagueTale/status/1874124086403559735?s=19

[sudden bridge]

if you say it's rare, then it has like a 1 in 1000 chance to trigger

[quasi owl]

Would Sophia speak Occitan?

[lofty spindle]

Guys, I don't know if this topic has been discussed here before, but I keep wondering if there might be something to it:

After Amicia "kills" Hugo, the black screen appears and then the credits follow. Meanwhile, the background is white at first and becomes clearer and clearer over time, and at the end you can most likely see the sun from the perspective of a beach (where Arnaud probably died). Perhaps this followed after the "death" of Hugo, because the Nebula disappeared and so the sun could reappear. The name of the Macula or Nebula -> Sunkiller also fits in with this.

What do you think about it😁

[proud berry]

All 18 times I've sat through it, I've thought of it that way

Watching the sun rise over Marseille once more

[dark seal]

La haut and beyond the horizon share the same melody…beyond the horizon is what plays during amicia’s nightmare in innocence, and La haut is what plays when Hugo dies….if this song represents amicias nightmare, which is losing Hugo, then it’s just more stuff for the illusion theory!

I don’t know if this has already been discussed before

[proud berry]

Ultimately though the ending of the Nightmare is the same as the reality
Hugo goes to Nicholas in return for seeing his mother again
I agree that both sequences share a lot in how they are presented, but ultimately I don't think it offers much to the illusion theory

Also though, La Haut is actually the third time the melody is played!

https://open.spotify.com/track/3eYZ3FOLg30h1MhGjvwQhB?si=ZV3kSHa2S26IlNaep_QuTA

It's played in Chapter 5 of Requiem when Amicia is freeing the bodies from the river mechanism

Olivier Deriviere talks about it more here
https://youtu.be/n39kUmiOUuo?si=ZC9RccdRfMNXPf23

[radiant dew]

Honestly, the story in the last part of the game is too sloppy. not well made.

[stoic wraith]

Like the very end?

The first time I played it I was like “are you kidding me” but I understand it

[dark seal]

Eh

Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions

[proud berry]

I think for me
Requiem has a few chapters after the halfway point that are long and don't necessarily push the plot forwards very much
And then in the last leg it switched to a bunch of very intense, very short chapters that wrap up the story

I do think having that extra time to sit with the characters & world is very needed, and is honestly something that Innocence sorely lacks
(Lucas aside, I think we get to know Arnaud & Sophia better than any other companions because of that)

But I think padding out the last few chapters could've been a good idea
Imo they should've condensed chapter 14 & 15
And split Chapter 13 into two longer chapters

It also would've helped alleviate the complaints about not spending enough time with Lucas, as he features in more chapters than any other character bar Amicia & Hugo

Though maybe players would feel cheated if they spent a long time trying to save Hugo only for it to fail

[radiant dew]

At least Amicia and Hugo should have spent more time together. The later chapters are too abrupt.

[solar perch]

They spent the whole two games together

[radiant dew]

Nahhh

[solar perch]

Arguably they spent more chapters together in Requiem than Innocence

[radiant dew]

At least in the end, they needed weeks or months of time to talk to each other. Or it would have been nice if there was an ending where Hugo died peacefully when they were alone.

[solar perch]

I don't think they needed to talk to each other more. They spent the whole game together communicating and well aware of each other

[radiant dew]

It would have been nice to have a choice in the ending, just like there is a choice in how to proceed with the game.

[solar perch]

No. This is a linear game. Why would it have choices?

They have a story they wanna tell and they told it

[proud berry]

Agreed

[proud berry]

Requiem is nearly three times as long as Innocence too like 😭

And there's the six month gap

[radiant dew]

At least there should have been an ending branch where Hugo died peacefully next to Amicia in the mountains.

[solar perch]

Why? It's a linear game. Not an rpg

[radiant dew]

Aren't there some linear games that have small branches?

[solar perch]

With games like tlou or Uncharted many do not. Because they have one specific story and message to tell

Choices take agency from the character and writing.

[radiant dew]

Hmm..

I feel like the last chapter was concluded too hastily.

It just my opinion.

[proud berry]

I think this is coping
Everything was pointing to how this scenario was unavoidable
And how Amicia's violent outbursts & attachment issues were going to have big consequences

It's easy forget because we see everything from Amicia's perspective, but Hugo is dangerous
And him continuing to live uncured at best highly risks, and at worst guarantees, killing loads of innocent people

Also although it's sad, realistically the ending is the best possible outcome to everyone involved (villains excluded)
Even for Arnaud

[radiant dew]

i don't know..

[radiant dew]

Honestly, Imo, after playing two full-length games, I don't like the grimdark ending with no dream or hope.

[radiant dew]

Poor hugo.

[woeful mango]

Did someone remember how to do the glitch in the chapter 16 in Innocence ?

[pallid hull]

This made me laugh. Go Amicia

[solar perch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/APlagueTale/comments/1j2ihg0/how_i_sit_after_requiem_post_credit_scene/

[burnt pasture]

hi agian

Hello, all my plague tales

[proud berry]

That does make me think what is like the name for Plague Tale fans?

Rats?

[solar perch]

Probably rats

[woeful mango]

The frogs

[solar perch]

Or dogs

[nimble frigate]

I think rats fits

[woeful mango]

The Rattus (Rats in Latin)

[proud berry]

Idk if I've mentioned this before but a while back I had a chance to speak with Harry Myers about Arnaud
And he was super nice and chatty, one of my favorite VAs in general tbh!

[fallen cosmos]

Just finishing up my second playthrough of Requiem. I was finally brave enough to play it again.. It’s broken me just as badly as my first playthrough did.

I stand by what I’ve said in the past, I do not care if it ruins the ending of Requiem. I pray that they find a way (that makes sense) to give us both Amicia and Hugo back.

I can’t see Asobo going down that route, but I can only dream that they do

[solar perch]

A second playthrough has the energy of

Hugo: later you can teach me to use your sling

Me:😬😬

[proud berry]

Fr like there's so many moments that hit way harder

Like every time that a part of Brother plays

[hidden linden]

Same for me, I did my 2nd playthrough 2 weeks ago, and for some reason it hit harder than the 1st one

[hidden linden]

For me it has to be the lines in the beginning where Amicia says "How about you lift me up this time?" and Hugo replies with "One day I'll be able to." - like this is heartbreaking knowing his ending

[nimble frigate]

Or when he asks to have a swing in their next house 💔💔

[nimble frigate]

Dude I breakdown every time I hear any part of Brother

[nimble frigate]

How’s everyone coping with the ending of Requiem

[nimble frigate]

I just got to The Cradle of Centuries in my playthrough 💔💔

[woeful mango]

For me, one of the most sad and cute moment on a 2nd playthrough is when Amicia is on the swing and Hugo is pushing her.

[full flower]

It's just normal now

[mellow scaffold]

i also recently replayed both parts, it was hard to bring myself to do it, but i wanted to. i totally understand you, it was really tough again, once more a deep emptiness, once more it broke me emotionally. i really want a continuation of Amicia’s story, and hopefully Hugo’s too, and there are many possible directions, many theories, and i’m sure there are ways to develop it, and even make it work without ruining the ending of requiem. the developers have proven they can do great things, we’ve seen that before, so we’ll see what happens next, we’ll wait and believe.

[zinc sand]

I can confirm that I've also relaunched a second part, and I still had a pang in my heart when I heard that sentence 😭

[nimble frigate]

Every time I hear anything about him being older or learning to use the sling my heart breaks each time 😭

[zinc sand]

Yes, me too, the one that hurts the most is when Hugo pushes Amicia on the swing and tells her we'll have one with apple trees around it in our future home...

[nimble frigate]

Right?? That one stings

[zinc sand]

All I want is a third part with Amicia and a happy ending.

[nimble frigate]

even if its not canon, let us save Hugoo

[zinc sand]

I'd love to save him, but I don't see how he could without breaking Requiem's story.

[proud berry]

Just realized that Chapter 10 of Requiem (Amicia's reintroduction to violence) is a mirror of Chapter 1 of Requiem (Her introduction to violence in the game)

Both begin with a round tower

And involve infiltrating a castle

And stumbling across a conflict that was already going on
Then that triggering a violent response from Amicia
And then when Amicia tries to sneak past an act of evil, Hugo goes and interrupts it and it results in his powers reawakening

[zinc sand]

That's a good point!

[proud berry]

One thing that struck me in my recent Requiem playthrough is at the end of Chapter 11
In the tomb of basilius
After you finish the bridge puzzle and begin the descent down towards Basil
When you first play it you're so hopeful and intrigued in what will happen, and solely invested in Amicia's perspective, that you are the same as her
Just wanting to push on
And kind of don't notice Hugo's protests

But when you replay it
You really do notice how Amicia was forcing everyone else to go down there with her, putting great strain on Hugo and all for pretty much nothing
It's really one of the first huge signs that she really is somewhat delusional and hurtful with her commitment to saving Hugo

[zinc sand]

I have to admit that during my first session I was intrigued by this too, but I wish Amicia had listened to her brother too, maybe things would have changed?

[zinc sand]

I just thought of something, but in the end, Hugo saved the world himself.
Amicia, Hugo and Arnaud arrive at La Cuna, Arnaud is separated from them and condemned to death by Victor.

Much later, after the catastrophe that befell Basilius, Beatrice's death
They want to leave the island and settle for good in the mountains
But Hugo is attached to Arnaud and doesn't want him to die hanging, so he asks Amicia to save her, and that's what happens.

The indebted Arnaud stays with them and decides to stay and help them.

Amicia takes an arrow and is on the verge of death, Arnaud throws her off the boat and takes her to the beach in Marseille and nurses her back to health. Without his intervention and care she would have died, she wouldn't have reached Hugo and stopped him, and the world would have suffered the ravages of the plague.

In conclusion, Hugo himself saved the world he tried to destroy in spite of himself.

[proud berry]

I don't think that's why Arnaud stays with them
Maybe partly
But mainly because Arnaud genuinely liked and cared for Hugo and Amicia
And 100% saw himself in Amicia

And probably wanted to help her avoid walking down the path of bitterness and loss that he had walked

[zinc sand]

In the summaries of the chapters it was indicated that he was indebted to them I think?
But I agree that he loved them (especially Hugo)

[proud berry]

Yeah I do think that is an element of it, but not nearly to the same extent as Sophia prior

I'd personally say that he cared slightly more for Amicia by the end

He 100% saw himself in her, and I'd speculate that he saw some of his son in her
We know that his son was her age, and was a scout of a sort

[zinc sand]

Yes, that's true, I must say he owed her, she saved his life after all.

And yes, Amicia was already mentally fragile at the time, she was completely overwhelmed, and I'm glad he was there for her.

He died a hero

[nimble frigate]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP86HtRU4/

Thanks, TikTok

[nimble frigate]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP867rdqP/

[shadow crypt]

okay, ngl, I don't think APT1 bosses are perfect, but I'm sad that APT2 didn't do any bosses

[urban lodge]

Theres technically 2 bosses i think? The beast and the count

Tho the count is stretching it i guess. Youre fighting his army more than him.

[solar perch]

You don't even really fight the beast

I assume there was a lot of criticism for the bosses and the doubled down on not doing any more bosses

[proud berry]

I'm on the fence
I'm not against the idea of bosses

But I think it really helps the anti-power fantasy of the series by not having them
Especially because I think Requiem writes around them so well
At least in regards to Victor

But also Innocence's boss fights are probably the worst part of the game
Vitalis more than Nicholas if you ask me

I don't mind the big set piece moments either
But making it a boss fight like Vitalis
I'm not a fan of

[proud berry]

https://youtu.be/3IJ_oWxkX8A?si=lfgAER9AaKdwWXYR

Loved this video

Didn't 100% agree with all it
And think it missed a fair good bit of stuff
It never touches upon the fact that it's established that the Macula feeds off of negative emotions
Also kind of very quickly brushes over the morality of the Macula, a point that was selectively made I think
If it's an intelligent creature, then all the cases of it being misleading and malicious are intentional
So I'm not sure how it can still be a neutral, amoral force
Even if it isn't evil by the human definition, it's still cruel, nasty, uncaring and malicious
And ofc outside of missed quotes, the video doesn't touch upon all the external factors present
But JLO does acknowledge this

But for the most part I thought its spot on and especially in regards to alchemy it touched upon and explained some stuff I'd be considering
Great watch and a lot of solid investigation and very well put together

It pretty much just touches upon Hugo, Amicia, Alchemy and the Macula
And I have to commend it for the alchemy stuff because trying to understand alchemic theory is impossible it's so complex but the basics are explained so well

Also it made me appreciate Beatrice's character a bit more
I still think she's an incredibly flawed person but it made me more sympathetic to her

Also last ramble
I would like to see a similar breakdown
Or would've liked to see it touched upon in this video at least
Of the other medieval European philosophy alluded to in Requiem
That of Natural Law, namely Thomas Acquinas's writings on it

In short Natural Law says that man, and all things that serve man (animals, materials etc), follow Natural Law in absence of Divine Law and Governmental Moral Law

And Natural Law dictates that as a part of self preservation, people will be naturally inclined to build, preserve and protect each other
And form civilizations and ecosystems
As helping each other survive helps everyone survive

So Lucas's comment about all Natural Laws stopping here in Chapter 16 is not about the Laws of Physics
But about a few things
Namely
-By stepping into the crucible they're leaving behind all instincts of self preservation
-The crucible is the centrepoint of the Macula and Hugo, the former of which refuses to follow Natural Law at all (destroy all for its own preservation) and the latter of which has clearly given up on Natural Law (not consciously ofc, Natural Law is an unconscious instinct)

[proud berry]

There's so much rare Arnaud dialogue in Chapter Seven

After Arnaud kills a soldier

Amicia: "Lord, you never miss, do you? I can imagine you on a battlefield now"
Arnaud: "That, you can't. And you shouldn't."

There was another one about swords two
Where Arnaud asks why Amicia doesn't use one
She's like "Never learned, and don't have the time to now"
Then Hugo is like "I think the sword and shield are the best"
Then Arnaud says "Coming from the boy who has rats."

[solar perch]

There are a similar few I found in Innocence.

If you hang around in one place for a while, your companion usually has a like usually telling you to get moving

[zinc sand]

I can't remember if it's in Requiem or Innocence or Lucas or Hugo, but I can't remember either... ask Amicia why she doesn't fight with a sword and she answers
''The sword was made for killing''
It's true that the slingshot is made for chasing squirrels haha

[proud berry]

Probably in Innocence

The change in her response very much fits her arc over the games

[zinc sand]

indeed

[burnt pasture]

We won

[swift steppe]

Ok, yeah, I just saw the trailer, not a minute ago. So we've got a Sophia prequel/spin-off, with some freakin' minotaur giant at the end... Whatever.

Do we have maybe a timeline-shift kind of mechanic too? Mostly I wonder due to the part in a gladiatorial arena and an Aurelian-esque figure with masked armor. That doesn't exactly belong in mid-14th century Europe.

I was really hoping for a DLC, but one centered around Aelia and Basilius, to learn more about Macula as a hypothetical preparation for THE third game of the main series. This... I don't know what to make of this. Sophia herself? I never was her fan exactly, but now she really is starting to feel a bit forced into the content more than she has to, but that's just my opinion.

[full flower]

in the video descriptions it's said the timeline is set 15 years before event of requiem

and yeah i agree with you on the last part

sophia didn't really have strong impact in story it was like arthur in innocence

and myself i think arnuad choice would be better

but maybe they chose sophia cause she's a female? like the main character of previous games was a female

[proud berry]

This isn't true at all
Sophia is the whole reason we can get to and from the island which is impact enough
But she's hugely impactful for Amicia's character

[versed shell]

Firstly. Hi! Been a really long time since I stopped through. Good to see some familiar faces still here though.

Interesting trailer. Whilst definitely not the protagonist I would have chosen to have followed in a new game. I'm still hopeful we'll get some good lore on the Macula in this, some way or another.

[elfin parrot]

Hello there!

I guess that Macula won't be anywhere near central point of the story unfortunately...

[proud berry]

Untrue

The game does have something to do with the Macula

[elfin parrot]

My point still stands. It won't be the great big bad this time. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense for Sophia to know nothing about it in Requiem

... I don't like the "brand new take in the universe of A Plague Tale".

[versed shell]

So I have some super first impression thoughts and observations that may be worth a little discussion. All super rough speculation right now of course!

Firstly is the symbolism behind the minotaur.

"The Minotaur is sometimes seen as a manifestation of repressed feelings, such as trauma, guilt, or shame, which individuals try to hide from themselves and others." Likely indicating of course the inevitable dive into Sophia's character.

but also

"The Minotaur and the labyrinth are also linked to the history of Crete and the Minoan civilization. The story of the Minotaur and the labyrinth can be seen as reflecting the cultural and historical power dynamics between Crete and Athens."

If you do a little googling you can find images very similar of drawings of people in armour very akin to what we see in the trailer. I think the game might explore the Minoan civilization via lore of long past events akin to how we learnt of basil and Aelia in requiem.

"Minoan civilization born on the island of Crete spread throughout the Mediterranean before it mysteriously collapsed."

In history this is theorised to be because of the Minoan eruption. "One of the most violent volcanic eruptions to rock the ancient world."

Perhaps they plan to use tie this "mysterious" piece of history into the lore somehow.

Also

"In various cultures and spiritual traditions, "ropes of light" symbolize connection, guidance, and the path to spiritual enlightenment or a divine source"

I feel like they are hinting towards something akin to the Macula if not that directly. The use of light in the ropes and the divine element in it's symbolism makes me wonder if they might introduce some opposing "force" of the macula. Think classic good/bad, light/dark, ying/yang etcetera.

thank you for humouring the ramblings of this madman

[versed shell]

Likely not yeah. It's possible we'll get some lore along the way that will be targeted at the 4th wall so to speak but Sophia will just interpret differently in-game. Or just bread crumbs that are subtle throughout.

[proud berry]

From the official press release

[elfin parrot]

Then why Sophia does not recognise Macula in Requiem?

[proud berry]

It being a manifestation of the Macula doesn't necessarily mean she knows about the Macula

And it evolves and changes to suit its needs

[elfin parrot]

But Macula hasn't changed one bit between Basilius and Hugo.

[proud berry]

Yes it has
The Macula changes between games

The characters say this multiple times

[swift steppe]

Hey Slazeus! This is truly long-time-no-see

[elfin parrot]

At the moment, if Macula has a great influence on the third story, it is far from what we know from previous games

We will learn more about it in the next trailer, but now it seems watered down. You could see Macula's effects really well in Requiem's teaser

[proud berry]

Idk how it seems watered down

We haven't really seen that much

The Macula is in a somewhat different form, that's all we know for sure

[elfin parrot]

Logically it must be, otherwise Sophia as well as anyone with common sense wouldn't enter Basilius' underground prison.

[swift steppe]

Yeah, well, it's not that I don't like her as a character (she's fine to me), I just think that out of all side-characters, particularly from Requiem, she got absolutely disproportionate amount of screen-time and exposure. Even Lucas, a much more established A Plague Tale character (second only to the sinling duo) was sidelined and absent for at least half the game. Arnaud... Words need not be spoken.

[proud berry]

Lucas is in more chapters then either Arnaud or Sophia btw

Arnaud is only in three, maybe four at a push

Depends if we're counting Chapter 5

Lucas is in 10 chapters of 16

Sophia is in about 8

[elfin parrot]

Sophia certainly gets more screen time though

[proud berry]

Not necessarily
Could just be different

[urban lodge]

I counted 11 cuz of 12-17 then i remembered 💀

[elfin parrot]

Then I am very sceptical that they will nail it the same way they did in previous games

[urban lodge]

Sophia gets a lot of screentime because shes in the gameplay heavy sections id say

[proud berry]

Yeah and she's in Chapter 9 which has the potential to be the longest in the game

[urban lodge]

Yea i dreaded replaying that chapter since it takes so long do everything. Very pretty place but running around can be a bit annoying.

[versed shell]

Much too long this time honestly. Life got busy for a good minute.. 😅

[urban lodge]

Do we know what this other period theyre referring to could be?

Im gonna lose it if we get aelia and basilius story in some form i wanted a dlc so bad for them

[proud berry]

Lucas has way more big character moments though it's not even comparable

• Chapter 2 Panic attack & prison sequence, massive character moments
• Hugo condemned to death reveal in Chapter 4
• He is the heart of chapter 13
• His role at the end of the game supporting Amicia

[versed shell]

The minotaur seems to be tied heavily to the Minoan civilization symbolically. That would suggest 1600 BCE roughly. (huge speculation of course)

[proud berry]

There's literally a part of the game at the end where Amicia collapsed and can't go on anymore
And breaks down saying she'll be all alone
Until Lucas appears and hugs her, and they get up and continue on

Like it's such a massive moment I don't understand how Lucas was sidelined

[proud berry]

Although Sophia is a very supportive and very important role model I don't think she comes close to having such big impactful moments
That are reliant upon her, her agency and her decisions
Aside from maybe Chapter 10 with the slavers

She's a bystander for some big moments in Chapter 11 but that's about it

[urban lodge]

Hmm i see. So the other period isnt related to the previous carrier then

[versed shell]

Look at the similarity to the armour styles of that period/civilisation an archaeologist page on facebook pictures compared to the style of the armour in the trailer. Mycenaean Armors (1600–1100 B.C.), created by Katsikis Dimitrios (HellenicArmors) and hosted by Kotsanas Museum of Ancient Greek Technology, photo of September 2023.

Oh, apparently sleuthing wasn't necessary in this instance.. 😅

"Shift between the Middle Age of Sophia and ancient Minoan times, where echoes of the past shape the battles of the present."

Should have read that post first ha

[swift steppe]

More screen time in much more important chapters. My point stands.

[swift steppe]

Eh, we all have this problem...

[proud berry]

Not really
I'd argue Lucas has more screentime in the most important chapter
Chapter 16

[elfin parrot]

Can anyone try to lighten up the minotaur statue from the trailer and maybe tweak the contrast even? It might reveal some details

[proud berry]

But Lucas has more screentime in chapters 2, 3, 4, 12 and 13 which are all super important chapters

[elfin parrot]

In the end it does not matter much. You have to admit though that Lucas deserved spin-off game more than Sophia.

[proud berry]

He doesn't deserve anything because he isn't a real person

[elfin parrot]

You know how I meant it

[proud berry]

Fair

[proud berry]

Not really
Mainly because Lucas has been in both games and has had a pretty complete character arc
He even has his own themes
Something Sophia does not
She doesn't even really have a character arc
One thing Olivier said in his videos is that Sophia doesn't really have a theme or any development because the intention was for her to be more of a support character

So I think Sophia needs the opportunity to be fleshed out more

Whereas we've already got quite a lot for Lucas

Not to say Lucas doesn't deserve one but I don't think he's missing out because of Sophia
If that makes sense

Maybe if it was an Arnaud spin off game I'd agree and that's me No. 1 Arnaud fan saying that

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, I don't agree with Lucas having a completed character arc. He is basically alone at the moment, not even with Amicia as a friend, even though he promised her to always be at her side.

[solar perch]

I think because of how static Sophia was in Requiem. This jew game is a good chance to give her something more.

I am curious about her past after seeing the trailer

Though that isn't to say static characters aren't bad

[versed shell]

Had a go but this was the clearest I could make it and doesn't seem to be much different.

[solar perch]

A static character can be good to ground all the craziness around

[proud berry]

He definitely does have an arc
Maybe not as fully realized as some of the other characters
Definitely far more realized than Sophia though

[elfin parrot]

Thanks. I expected to see growths on him similar to ones Basilius has when we meet him

[versed shell]

I'd be down for "Alchemy Simulator" with Lucas training under Laurentius 👀

[elfin parrot]

A "match three" type of game

[proud berry]

Lucas goes from not making decisions for himself, being beholden to authority figures and not feeling like he knows how to be human

To being the one to take charge and lead Amicia & Hugo out of the ruins in Chapter 13
Despite their protests and doing what's best for them
He's the one that goes through the Nebula with Amicia and is there to help her get up and remind her that she isn't alone

Like his arc is learning to be confident, find his own agency and express himself better

[mossy folio]

Sophia is getting a game

APT franchise is alive and going, nice

[full flower]

But wasn't because of Arnaud that we got to know Sophia?

[swift steppe]

Agreed, although spin-offs for Requiem's side characters as it is just feels wasteful... Idk, I don't know if that can justify a 6 or 7+ hour campaign.

[burnt pasture]

Hopefully this new game will be less nihilistic.

[proud berry]

Yeah but that doesn't really change anything

[versed shell]

I wonder if even they were kind of unhappy with how the character felt a little tagged on in requiem and maybe that's why they decided to go with Sophia for a spin-off? Being an optimist at heart though I'm at least hopeful they'll allow her character to feel "earned" to some degree after this one.

[wispy fiber]

What a strange decision by Asobo. I usually don’t mind when a series branches out to new characters or even a completely different story, but the Plague Tale series was already relatively niche. Now they’ve removed what made Plague Tale feel like Plague Tale in the first place. Unless they have an incredible story to tell about Sophia, I don’t really understand why they didn’t just make it a new game entirely.

[versed shell]

Yeah I do think that if they were hellbent on exploring this character for a full game it'd feel less weird if they gave it it's own completely detached title and make it have literally nothing to do with Plague Tale itself. A "sister" ip that happened to share the universe would have a less bitter taste I think.

To add a positive though, I do like the sound of what they are trying to do gameplay wise with the puzzle elements and the like.

[heady silo]

On the top left, the mural on the wall looks like a Phoenix...the representation of the Macula

Is this the link?

[proud berry]

They aren't Phoenixes
They look a lot like a Mesopotamian Lamassu

Or one of the other creatures from that mythology, such as the Anzû

Fire breathing flying cat

But failing any Mesopotamian creature, it also looks like a sphinx of a sort

[heady silo]

That was my first thought too

But look at the wings. They aren't your standard Lamassu wings.

[proud berry]

Could just be artistic licence

[heady silo]

And the face looks like a bird rather than a lion

[heady silo]

👀

[proud berry]

It also looks a lot like a Greek Sphinx

Such as the Sphinx of Naxos

It could still be a Mesopotamian sphinx or chimera

I think it's also worth noting that a big part of the game involves ancient Minoans and their ruins

Which are from like 3000 BC

So I think the game could concern the origins of the Macula

Or whatever the Minoans thought it was

There's zero chance they called it the Prima Macula

Both the Minoans and Macula predate Latin

[open ravine]

And the theory chaos begins again 🥳

[heady silo]

Yes, that's definitely it. We're gonna get clues about what it is.

[open ravine]

I want origins of the Macula, and the Order. We don't know near enough about them

[solar perch]

They have written a bit about the origin of the order in The Heart of Plague Tale book

[versed shell]

Going into any real detail about these topics through a character who is supposed to have no history with it is at best a loophole in continuity and at worst, bad writing. In any case having a couple days to ponder this now, I'm actually not sure how they're going to toe the line with the Macula's inclusion in this game.

[open ravine]

With Sophia, absolutely. However, the Minoan could know all sorts of things about the Macula. For instance, Minoan knows the evil is a curse that plagues on children and could end the world. We find out a lot more about the history of it all from her. Sophia is in search of treasure and comes to realise more is going on. The Minoan dies in the end, similar to Aelia, and all her knowledge dies with her. Sophia, while finishing her quest, never fully knows about the Macula or how deep the evil really goes. She figures its an evil place, hence she doesn't recognize rats and plagues and stuff.

[wide falcon]

What the, Sophia as the protagonist is a surprise

Weird decision in my opinion

And where is the macula, isn’t it like one of the main antagonists in the games?

Don’t tell me the Minotaur is the macula..

[wanton pike]

There is going to be some kind of focus on it

To what extent, we don't know yet. But it will play a role

[wide falcon]

I’ve only watched the trailer, but two heroes? Could the other potentially be Arnaud since him and Sophia seem pretty well acquainted in requiem? Young Arnaud would be awesome

[elfin parrot]

If Arnaud makes an appearance at all, it would be at the very end of the game I think.

The second character in my opinion will be Theseus, a man that killed Minotaur in the first place according to Greek myth.

He might be named differently though

[wide falcon]

Oooh, so that line of light is Ariadne’s web. I’m not too good with history but would Theseus’ timeline match up with Sophia? Or could it sorta of be Sophia will act as Theseus as a parallel to the myth

[wide falcon]

Also, there’s a soldier in the trailer wearing blue and yellow, arent those the counts colors or am I wrong?

In requiem, Arnaud also tells Sophia that she owes him one. Maybe we’ll see why in this new game?

I’m probably reaching, but the masked character in the trailer has long hair. Arnaud has long hair. lol

Wait I just read something above. Apparently gameplay will shift from Minoan times and Sophia’s time, so yeah probably Theseus

[wide falcon]

Maybe Theseus or some Greek/minoan character

[proud berry]

I very much doubt it's Arnaud

[proud berry]

They are and it's stated that Sophia is being pursued by an army

[wide falcon]

Yea I understand a little more now that I’ve read some stuff, but you think Arnaud will make an appearance?

[solar perch]

Depends what point we see Sophia. It will have to be closer towards Innocence/Requiem time, since it didn't seem like they knew each other for too long at that point

[proud berry]

I asked one of the community managers and the answer was pretty much No

I've spoken to Arnaud's VA before but I don't think he'd be able to answer this

[wide falcon]

kinda disappointing, but I guess Sophia is the new focus

[full flower]

I want Arnaud 😭

He's a cool character

Among all the male characters in both games

He's the top for me

[wide falcon]

The community manager was lying 😈

[woeful mango]

not very likely because at this time Arnaud is perhaps already in Guyenne (the war in Guyenne historically begins in 1337, Innocence takes place in 1348. But as the game takes place 15 years before the beginning of Innocence/Requiem, there is a delay where it remains possible to meet him

[proud berry]

Arnaud definitely won't be in it then, because he doesn't quit being a Knight until after the battle of Guyenne

[dark seal]

I want to see Arnaud in this game

I know its unlikely but I want to see what Sophia did where she was demanded to be killed

and why Arnaud didn't kill her

[heady silo]

We might as well play as the Minotaur

Maybe the story they're going for - Minotaur was the first victim of the Macula. So he was put in a maze, a labyrinth, so that he never comes out and threaten the world. Over time, this story got twisted, and people started to think he's the monster.

We do know that Macula victims are traditionally imprisoned and observed (remember Basilius?). It's possible they built a whole labyrinth to imprison the Minotaur.

What kind of a monster just chooses to stay in a maze willingly? (Unless I'm wrong about the Minotaur)

[wide falcon]

I mean, they love their female protagonists, so maybe we play as Ariadne or a gender bent Theseus. Either way, prob a female character

[solar perch]

Oooh I quite like this theory

[heady silo]

"gender bent" 😂😂

[wide falcon]

😛

[wide falcon]

I definitely think this is how it’s gonna be with the macula

Age old plague tale story of containing the carrier

[proud berry]

I do like theory crafting but I think the Minoan protagonist is quite clearly the woman in the arena in the trailer

[open ravine]

Yeah they said the Minoan that is tied to Sophia is the gold armored warrior in the arena

[dark seal]

You think we’ll learn about the gold bracer Amicia finds on La Cuna maybe?

[nimble frigate]

Omg wait I didn’t even think about that, I hope so

She didn’t seem to know anything about it though

[zinc sand]

you're so smart ! nobody think about that

[proud berry]

If I recall correctly, I think the press release that came out when Resonance was announced confirmed that the story of Amicia and Hugo is done

I hope it isn't but it seemed kinda final

Yeah there we go

I do think this is the strongest confirmation we're getting (outside of the game) that Hugo is dead and Amicia has moved on

These two are interesting too

It seems the same mechanics will be present even if rats are not

[toxic lantern]

Did a trend on tiktok.. I wanted to share it with the APT's community but since it contain a LOT of spoiler...

[nimble frigate]

YOU DID NOT

[toxic lantern]

UH UH YES I DID

[nimble frigate]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WHYD YOU GOTTA STAB ME LIKE THAT (peak content, you should make more)

[toxic lantern]

and I didn't kiss the knife before throwing it at you 🧍. (THANKKK!!! But I need to find more idea lolll)

[nimble frigate]

Excuse you, kiss it right now

I want an apology with tears rn

[toxic lantern]

Okay 😔...

[wanton pike]

https://x.com/shitpost_2077/status/1954231525903376440?t=4awMIMAUIX4eSstvJd37bw&s=19

Requiem Chapter 16

Shitpost 2077 (@shitpost_2077)

X · Aug 9, 2025, 5:21 PM

[toxic lantern]

NAHH

HUGOOO

[nimble frigate]

HUGOOOO NOOO

[swift steppe]

Soo... What in the world happened to the chats? Why'd they re-structure the channels like this?

[swift steppe]

Ok now seriously, two weeks later and no one wrote anything - did they really screw up the functioning of community with this latest reforming of the chats and channels???

[maiden goblet]

not much to say but yes, i also think that's bad channels "update"