Spoiler-chat SUBSTITUTE

[spring flare]

All I remember is that Vitalis was asking how 'another Carrier' was, and Nicholas was answering him.

[proud berry]

With this yes Amicia would be taking a more secondary role
I think we'd still play Amicia
And her story would be about healing/redeeming herself
Processing all the losses etc
But in terms of story, yeah the new Carrier & Protector would drive things

[urban lodge]

Pretty sure he was talking about Hugo

[spring flare]

Didn't she end up being quite well, though? I at least couldn't sense that purpose of redeeming herself. Sadness, yes, but I don't think (unless we go based on the alternative scene where Lucas kills Hugo) she doesn't feel regret.

[spring flare]

Well I'm not sure at all, so I have nothing to say.

Maybe one day I may play the Innocence again.

[proud berry]

She did but I think Amicia moreso distracted herself from grief, rather than working through it
If that makes sense
She removed herself from the situation that was actively traumatising herself, but I don't think she's really worked to rid herself of the trauma

Which goes back before the games even began, with her being ignored by her mother and never seeing her father

She was able to cope with Hugo's death
But that's just one thing on a huge list of traumatic events

[umbral bay]

yeah

[elfin parrot]

As a writer myself, I think the generally best direction for APT 3 following the further story of Amicia is established Illusion Theory with Hugo arising as a villain and main antagonist of the third game. Let me elaborate.

Having Hugo becoming a villain is perfect for historical accuracy. The Plague was rampaging Europe at least 2 years after his death in Requiem. And Requiem's Hugo was nowhere near as powerful to destroy 1/3 of Europe's population.

It also means that most of the previous characters can be present in third game without needing to add many new ones. Playable Amicia, Lucas, Sophia, maybe Melie and most importantly Hugo.

It would be natural for Macula to show it's true, never before seen potential. It felt the host - Hugo - was weak so it deceived Amicia. Hugo awakens in ruined Marseille and becomes walking Prima Macula, leaving terror everywhere "they" go.

The third game could expand the lore on the Order and shed some light onto Macula too.

With Hugo being the villain, the message of Requiem is not that emasculated, especially if he is beyond salvation and needs to be stopped once and for all.

Plus one of the main twists could be the appearance of Hugo in Amicia's mind. The simple act of Amicia holding hand with imaginary Hugo would be so impactful when done correctly... That being said, Amicia would have to re-heal herself again, because the wounds caused by Hugo's "death" would definitely reopen again.

[umbral bay]

thats lot but yeah that would be good

[urban lodge]

I could see it working if executed correctly

[elfin parrot]

It would also be a proper way to end Amicia's trilogy.

So I think this is the most ideal way to end Amicia's arc. I know that people who adore Hugo would be upset, but it would certainly create a captivating story and a proper ending if written carefully.

[urban lodge]

I assume the ending would be with Hugo gone (again) but the Macula gone aswell?

[elfin parrot]

There are of course other alternatives, but all things considered, my personal opinion is that Hugo becoming the main antagonist is the best variant at the moment.

[elfin parrot]

Yes. It wouldn't feel right if they somehow after all of this managed to save Hugo. But rather free him from the suffering once and for all.

[urban lodge]

It would also be interesting to maybe see an Order's member participate in the story

Helping Amicia or maybe even a short term villain

[elfin parrot]

Definitely. Such catastrophe would bring attention of every surviving member of the Order.

From anywhere around the world.

[harsh egret]

All is fine for me here, apart from the "Hugo would be an unsalvageable antagonist" part. I'm torn on that one.

On one hand I perfectly get it, it appears it would be pretty hard to save him in the physical sense completely after whatever Macula does to him (and I hypothesize his feeling of guilt would be immense after all the destruction Macula causes through him), but I also feel several problems with this proposition.

Firstly, it is very questionable if Amicia is truly "healed" right now at all, re-opening those wounds when they may not be previously healed in the first place would be... Idk how to put it, but you get it. And even if those old wounds are "healed", the point remains.

Secondly, "killing" Hugo at the end of Requiem only to have him re-introduced for another bout of torture, hopelessness and what amounts to a more dramatic mercy-kill may theoretically somewhat "preserve the message" or whatever, but would also be utterly beating the dead horse. And would be tiring to see, both from our own, and especially from Amicia's perspective.

And thirdly, I heavily dislike when the emphasis is put on the at-all-costs preservation of the messages or whatever the themes we think the predecessor game established, i.e. When the meta-meaning of the story that we extrapolate subjectively gets so intrusive and in the way of contructing the plot and characterization. I want to say that I always considered the "themes/messages" of a story somewhat secondary; still acknowledged and integral, but not the biggest factor that must determine everything about the future direction. If a potential third game "betrays" the themes of Requiem in whatever way, all power to it, after all, perhaps on the ashes of old, some new themes/lessons may arise we haven't thought of before.

[proud berry]

I don't really want to comment too much but if Hugo came back I'd rather something like this than going back to him being all cute and nice like the first game/start of Requiem

I think sometimes the idea of Hugo coming back is preferred over the reality of him coming back
Hugo changes throughout the course of Requiem, and he's a very different person after his mother dies
Hugo threatening to kill everyone if Amicia doesn't save Arnaud in time is not the same Hugo that was playing Hide and Seek in Innocence, or happily throwing around flowers at a festival in Requiem

[spring flare]

I personally hate that Illusion theory. Having all that emotional impact and then saying "Akshsuahsuahally Hugo was never dead! It was all a trick of the Macula!" quite ruins the whole meaning of Requiem's ending for me.

[harsh egret]

Understandable, even if I would disagree with that view.

[proud berry]

Also Requiem does a lot of work to gradually build up to Hugo's death
There's so much foreshadowing about the inevitability of his death

Aside from the big things, like the game being named Requiem, things like the Brother melody being gradually built up throughout the story

[harsh egret]

Also, I forgot to mention one other reason for my support of your writing scenario here - I simply find any other potential scenario for a third game horrendously lacking in things I consider integral for A Plague Tale game, especially in direct comparison with the Illusion Theory, despite all its alleged shortcomings.

Like, I would, in all honesty, never pay for an "Amicia solo" type of game because what Innocence (and also Requiem) irrevocably established as a core trademark of their identity for me is Amicia AND Hugo's duology. These two games (Innocence especially) completely thrived on being the story of these two siblings, and not just one. Of course you can practically make any story continuation with Amicia you would want, but for me, such a story becomes pointless or rather, pretty unnatural and hard to adjust to. I would struggle heavily to be invested in any "Amicia-solo" story. It would feel anti-climactic as well, having Amicia "search for the Carrier" or let alone "leave clues" as assumed by the final chapter of Requiem; I think you simply don't do this "healing" or "aftermath" in a third game of a trilogy, while leaving the true peak of tension in a second game..

Modern day ideas or even "jumping timelines" with Amicia being in one of them need no elaboration I think; I find them all to be iredeemably horrendous. Worst of all, if they imply new character-protagonists to replace the original ones, it would be doubly-terrible. It would establish a clear precedent for an "Assassin's Creed treatment" of the franchise. I would never welcome that type of direction. "And the cycle repeats" duh, I always hated that writing trope, ever since I was little.

Basilius-Aelia type prequel I find only suitable for a good, shorter DLC, not a full-fledged third game of the main series.

...So yeah, in my view, a third game would simply need to center around the established cast, and that WOULD INCLUDE HUGO, in one way or another.

[urban lodge]

To be honest, I never saw the themes/messages of the story changing as a problem at all, considering the franchise itself did that multiple times...

In Innocence we have this hope message throughtout the game, things were going to be hard but they were going to make it, together.

In the beginning of Requiem things change to be in a despair state upon hearing of the final stage of the Macula. Then, in the middle of the game, we get to a hope kind of feeling again, with Amicia telling Hugo various times that they will fight, they will be strong and they will overcome this.
But finally, just a few chapters before the game ends, things fall apart once again. Hugo is now beyond saving and life just throws at Amicia's face an "Oops, turn out there's nothing you can do now, it's over", and a hopelessness mood sets in.

About the fact that Hugo coming back would destroy the end of Requiem, I disagree.
Take GTA 5 as an example. Trevor mourns Michael for 10 years, and upon knowing that he was alive, he feels betrayed, angry, confused and lost in life. He wants desperatly to discover the truth, even if he risks everything to find it. I would imagine a similar situation if Amicia ever discovered Hugo was alive...

[spring flare]

It isn't like that kind of bad to have Hugo alive. Like it can lead to various intriguing scenarios, I agree. But, after not recovering at least two weeks over Requiem's ending, I would feel pretty betrayed and angered if the third APT came with "Uhm yeah were you thinking you killed Hugo? Akshuhsuahually you didn't, the Macula tricked you! 🤓👆"

Like it feels cheap, it ruins what the Requiem delivered and disembowels its whole impact. It's as if Asobo had no other idea, and no better way to justify Hugo being alive.

[solar perch]

I think it cheapens the impact and "trauma" of his death if Hugo came back. Not a fan of Hugo coming back

[spring flare]

And if they still have to go with Hugo being alive, I'd like a scenario more where Hugo dies but Macula rejects the idea of losing his vessel, and with all its strength it revives Hugo back. I'm sure it would be way better and more dramatic than the Illusion theory.

[urban lodge]

I understand that, but it goes both ways...
Like it would also leave a lot of people angry if a third game without Hugo came out and instead of him there's another Carrier. The story would be literally telling the fans "You know this character that you loved and that was literally the center of the franchise? Yeah, he's gone now, and we found him a replacement so we can continue with the series."

It's subjective afterall, so there's no right or wrong way. But this is just my view on it.

[umbral bay]

Hi guys you still talking about the plague tale 3 what would happen

[umbral bay]

But do you guys wish that hugo comes back?

[urban lodge]

It's not that I wish, but I think it's better than if he doesn't come back

[spring flare]

I wish to see a third APT, but I want neither Amicia nor Hugo to be honest. I don't want to see yet another Carrier/Protector relationship either. My honest opinion is that we should see a different story, as I said before.

[spring flare]

And that's one of the main reasons why I don't want the third APT to be about Amicia and Hugo.

[urban lodge]

But why not? There are the franchise, quite literally

[spring flare]

Yes, they are. But the world is vast and full of mystery as the Macula veils many things hidden. And in this world there are many scenarios we can invent. I just don't want to play something akin to the first two games.

Protector/Carrier is nice but isn't it already the main focus in the two games?

[urban lodge]

Stories need to have a defined focus. You can't just completely change its ways halfway and call it the same franchise

[solar perch]

This is why I am saying Aelia and Basil focus is a good idea. De Runes are connected to them and we are aware of their existence. Cus we love misery

[proud berry]

Changing themes is fine, I know I bang on about themes a lot but I think it's perfectly fine for a game to have different themes than the last

Requiem has similar, but different themes to Innocence
However the issue isn't Hugo being alive in a third game, it's Hugo not being dead in Requiem
It's not a change for the third game, it's a retroactive change for Requiem

That is antithetical to everything else in that game

[urban lodge]

He can still be dead in Requiem.
There are surely other ways to bring him back later on

[proud berry]

Idk I don't think there are any Necromancers in A Plague Tale

[harsh egret]

It's actually worse than that;

If another Carrier does get introduced in Hugo's stead and he is in a similar predicament, it is fair to say he would be stuck in an impossible triangle:

for one, just by the virtue of having to replace Hugo he'd be inevitably looked down upon.

Then, it would be fair to expect that he would be saved by the end, in one way or another, because dragging them (and us) through another Requiem-style mercy-kill because he unleashes armageddon would, again, be beating the dead horse and immediately feel cheap and annoying.

And thirdly, if he DOES get saved, say, with some form of a cure and survives the game, that would go in the face of what Requiem establishes: that there IS NO cure, a Carrier cannot be rid of it; as some like to say, Requiem constantly flirts and plays with this "dark inevitability" concept on Hugo. So now if Carrier's demise ISN'T inevitable and they devise a way to save this new one, it would be all too natural to ask afterwards: "and why the hell was Hugo not pre beneficiary of this newly made cure, and not this literal who of a character that didn't exist until after Requiem?"

[harsh egret]

ANY fictional (or semi-fictional like in this case) world is vast and filled with mysteries and therefore carries implicit potential for expansions left right and center; it doesn't mean it should always be done.

In my view, Hugo and Amicia together, quite simply ARE A Plague Tale.

The A Plague Tale universe is vague; Macula and its imperfect, hole-ridden lore, the Order of which we know extremely little, the alluring French Medieval setting et cetera, they're all just a weak-ish glue that serves to hold and enrich the universe enough for our main heroes to truly shine.

Ultimately, A Plague Tale universe isn't much without Amicia and Hugo.

Also, one of the main reasons for why many find APT games... so good, is precisely because as of now, they're a very small, very tight and extremely focused franchise. Many agree it should never warrant more than, say, 3 main games and is especially not molded for Assassin's Creed, Far Cry or Final Fantasy type expansions, for a plethora or reasons.

[elfin parrot]

After everything that happened and could happen in APT3, saving Hugo and living happy life is unimaginable for me. As far as I want Hugo to live happily, his end is inevitable...

Amicia at least looks healed. Sad, but content with what happened. APT3 would have to bring additional trauma upon her to not make her seem like a robot.

I know it sounds like beating the dead horse, but Hugo wouldn't be Hugo anymore. He would be an amalgamation of his former self and Macula, emotionless husk as he was after Beatrice's death.

As for message, it is not our thing to discuss, but rather Asobo's and its writers. If they primarily wanted to tell a message through both games and especially through Requiem, we aren't getting another APT game with Amicia. If they primarily wanted to create games with captivating story and then plant a message in them, overcoming said message is not that difficult... We cannot properly discuss it and come to a conclusion because we don't know the thought process of writers and the studio itself.

[elfin parrot]

I understand that and it's a fair point.

I subjectively think that suddenly introducing two completely new protagonists in the form of carrier and protector, with carrier suddenly being so powerful that he is able to devastate 1/3 of Europe, is far beyond acceptable. It simply wouldn't work in relation with previous games.

Hugo is the only carrier as of now able to decrease Europe's populace.

[elfin parrot]

That's fine. Revived Hugo is no longer Hugo, but a mere husk with his appearance

[elfin parrot]

Definitely, I agree with you. Even after trying, I cannot think of any captivating story for Amicia solo game that would be on par with previous games.

Adding another carrier to replace Hugo wouldn't feel right and many wouldn't be fine with this change.

[elfin parrot]

I agree with that, but the writers probably wanted to make the ending more impactful. To make the ending bring players to their knees. To really feel Amicia's hopelessness even after things finally started to get better.

[elfin parrot]

Fine with me. Macula is already believed to enhance the bodily functions of its host/carrier, so ability to revive Hugo is not that big of a stretch.

However, for a proper third game, Hugo needs to come back in any form.

[harsh egret]

No one implied (not even I) "and they lived happily ever after" ending in a third game (although I don't deny its inherent possibility, as it goes for virtually any other type of ending), though to be fair, personally what I'd like to see is kinda tricky to pin-point, even for myself.

But even if I would agree with your presented sentiment here, I still think my concerns' legitimacy stands: yes, of course it's by far most easy to imagine Hugo being destroyed internally and externally by this point and in desperate need of another mercy-kill... But once again, that "another" is problematic here. We had that tragedy-play play out in Requiem, is it... realistic? ...perhaps yes, from this vantage point, but is it wise? Ugh, extremely debatable I'd say.

After all, what Hugo would look like and what you are positing, even if logical at face value, is still theoretical and we can't possibly know it until we see it; more importantly, it stems from a place of ignorance, because unfortunately we've no idea what Macula is capable of, how it operates and so on. We only have a sttong implication that it IS mind-bogglingly powerful and capable, but still, utterly shrouded in mystery.

@elfin parrot At this point, and considering just how hard it is for all of us to agree (or even to simply imagine) a most suitable direction for a potential third game shows just how badly Requiem's ending messed everything up and wrote us (and writers) into a corner, all in an attempt to pursue some grand, deep messages... If they never make another A Plague Tale game and Requiem IS the end, that would work, even if I wouldn't be a terribly huge fan of it..

[elfin parrot]

Excluding Aelia and Basilius, the third game would need to be twice the length of Requiem in order to work. Otherwise you would have a trilogy, where first and second game is about Amicia and Hugo, whereas third game is about non-established protagonists instead.

And Asobo already having "rat fatigue", there is a very high chance that third game would be their last set in APT universe.

[proud berry]

I think this is a glass half empty look at it tbh
If it spawned so much discussion and debate
With people thinking up directions they'd love to see the series go
Then it got people to care and it made a point, which is a good thing

[elfin parrot]

Agree with everything, just adding a little bit to last paragraph:
The new carrier could potentially be saved with what exactly Amicia planned with Hugo - a quiet peaceful life. Only then would it make some sense to let the carrier survive third game.

[elfin parrot]

Spinoffs would work only if APT was very well established franchise with millions of players worldwide. With what we have now, Amicia and Hugo are the main protagonists/characters of the entire franchise and I would like to keep it that way.

[spring flare]

My honest opinion is that we should've never seen a healed Amicia after the end. Where Amicia cannot kill Hugo and Lucas does it instead of her should've been the only end. With that, we would see a maddening Amicia who drags the whole world into ruins.

The question of "how" here is important, and for that I've been thinking of Amicia being a Carrier too, since she shares the same blood as Hugo and we aren't quite sure if a Carrier must be a child. This kind of sounds lame in my mind since this is still a very primitive idea, but what if Amicia met someone in the third game, who's bitten and seeks a cure that's told to be in east, in Middle East for example. If they can't find it, it will make them turn into a monster (or simply will kill them). As we witness this person's journey, Amicia's maddening goes as a subplot, which in the middle and end plays a huge role. The new protagonist would try to keep her sane as much as they can, since they need her for their journey to survive in the falling Europe.

[harsh egret]

Ugh, I think I'd disagree here. As I said before, I always considered this "plan" of Amicia's, which much more reads an a desperate, ad-hoc solution she came up with in like a minute when meeting up with Beatrice and Lucas, to be a cheap, quick attempt by the writers to offer to us at least some "key" for a way out before suddenly snatching it away. It wouldn't work in my opinion:

Hugo's Macula was dormant for 6 months only on the surface: it was very much alive and active and working all kinds of schemes to push Hugo over the edge and manipulate both him and those around him, and considering how it appears to be an entity of immense power whose abilities can easily be built upon by writers, who knows what else it would've done.

Then there is the problem that it's practically impossible to just "lay low" and live a life with awakened Macula, even if at first there are no rats. Deranged, power-hungry cunts like Vitalis or Count Victor are a given and inescapeable. And what activated Hugo again? Fucking beekeepers, which wasn't even a scheme by some ambitious higher-up baddies, but simply a random accident!
So yeah, I think it gives you an idea why that "solution" isn't really a solution but at best, an untenable prevention.

[urban lodge]

Amicia would need to transfer a Carrier's blood into her own (and hope it's the same type, which probably is too much of a realism problem but whatever)

[spring flare]

In a scenario where she's mad, that would happen I assume.

[harsh egret]

Even then, from a writing perspective it would be hardly acceptable, but merely understandable, with milions of active fans begging for new games, so yeah...

[urban lodge]

I don't see Amicia going that far, specially since that is indeed something that would go against Requiem.
She lost Hugo trying to prevent world destruction, she wouldn't destroy the world to avenge him...

However, I could surely imagine a more cold-hearted Amicia...

[harsh egret]

New character = new protagonists no, I say, no one should usurp Amicia or Hugo's place as main characters, for all the above reasons.

And as for Carriers, we know with relative certainty that it can only be little boys so far. And while Amicia does share a blood bond with her brother, she can, at most, have un-awakened Macula, nothing more, and it stays that way. We can hypothesize that because they're siblings and he has Macula, she may have some intrinsic, perhaps ever metaphysical connection with it, but not to the point she is an active Carrier.

[proud berry]

I think a possible third game could still have a lot of Hugo's presence in it, even if he's not physically in it
He won't be forgotten about

And I don't mean to say this because I think Hugo is a bad character (I think he's a great one) but Amicia has a much bigger role and is a much more fleshed out character than Hugo
She could stand alone as a character, that's why there are plenty of levels where she's without Hugo
The game is about the bond between two people, yes, but Amicia is needed more than Hugo is

That's not to say Hugo isn't needed, or is an underdeveloped character or anything of the sort
As I said I think he's great, he's just more passive in the Plot that Amicia is
Usually it's Amicia making all the decisions, having her values tested, changing as a person, meeting new people, solving problems etc

[mossy folio]

There's a lot of myths about medieval times regarding hygiene

[elfin parrot]

I think that most players would like to see a happy ending for most characters after Requiem's tragedy. But alas, it wouldn't be possible with Hugo being revived.

Asobo would definitely need to expand the lore on the Prima Macula in this scenario and shed some light upon its mysterious fuctioning and motives.

Yes, I agree with you on that. Requiem's ending is certainly problematic for the enjoyable future of the APT franchise. New games can be done, but it is very likely that current fans won't be as pleased with them as they were with previous games.

[elfin parrot]

Damn, you have scrolled deep in the past with this one 💪

[elfin parrot]

The main issue is that none of the ideas we pitch seem natural and fitting the overall tone of the previous games. I just choose the one I think would fit the best for a third game, but still it's not that ideal direction to follow.

Good endings that don't wrap up entire franchises always give some sort of expectancy for players on where could next/last game go. Requiem gave us nothing, so it feels like the end of entire APT franchise.

[elfin parrot]

I know. For this plan to work, the carrier must become a prisoner and possibly never interact with anyone they don't already know.

But even then, in between Innocence and Requiem Hugo sufferend from the dreams about the Island. We have no evidence that Hugo would suddenly stop dreaming about it. Sooner or later, the dreams would turn into a nightmare and could potentially result in Hugo becoming angry in his sleep, thus unwillingly awakening Macula again...

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, thus far, carriers are boys and Macula awakens at the time they are born due to the distress caused by birth.

This could be a subject of change however, it is not explicitly written anywhere.

But Amicia suddenly becoming the carrier does not make sense, especially after all that emotional distress she has been through

[urban lodge]

I got an idea

[proud berry]

I'm going to be a bit blunt, but I think the assertion that just because we all have different ideas of a Plague Tale 3, the series is doomed and it's impossible to continue it
Is quite frankly, silly and egoistic

Ofc none of our ideas would feel natural
We didn't make this story, we haven't worked on it and none of us have actually worked as Video Game Writers

[harsh egret]

Really? Regarding what most players would like to see, that's not the impression I got, but it's possible.

Again, I would refrain from being so exclusive or fatalistic. And especially since we know so little via the lore which is severely lacking, it need not be treated as a dichotomy: how about a hard middle ground: Hugo and Amicia put up through and survive this nigh-impossible ordeal, but it's still bittersweet at best, hardly approaching what an average person would consider "happy ending". I feel it's pretty uncreative to reduce this matter to: "Oh this character survives the game = very happy ending". Writing medium can, in right hands, offer endless possibilities in this department.

By the way, what I wrote isn't me pitching a proposal for the story here to you or whatever, but me attempting to describe, in very broad strokes a proposition where you may have a vastly different outcome from Requiem while still maintaining (at least in name) the gritty, dark-ish approach.

[harsh egret]

We're waiting patiently 😀

[urban lodge]

You'll see once I finish it

Going to take some time

[harsh egret]

No problem

[urban lodge]

I'm going to use my poor editing skills to try to create what would be a Macula consumed' Hugo

[harsh egret]

Uh oh 😬 some dread immediately filled my veins upon reading this..

[urban lodge]

Is it that bad?

[harsh egret]

Nah

[elfin parrot]

It's very well possible to continue it, but the question is whether it is a right thing to do in a first place to not endanger whole franchise with cheap sequel or unrelated game set in the same universe.

We all have many ideas what could the third game be, however none of them are really worthy for us to say: "Yeah, this is the direction we would all like to see in the third game."

Innocence ended with characters setting on a journey, and we knew that these characters will be present in the next game and that they will possibly try to find a cure for Hugo. What we know from Requiem? Only the journey part of Amicia. Nothing else is really decided.

[elfin parrot]

I get what you mean, however Hugo already in some scenes regretted his powers cause death and destruction (whereas in others, he feeds this?). If we follow real life casualties, Hugo would need to be so numbed by the end of third game he wouldn't even feel any regret at all. Which is weird to me, but I am open to changing my mind on this one.

[urban lodge]

If he gets fully controled by the Macula there's no need to search a reason for him to do it

[proud berry]

I think speculation and thinking up ideas for where it could go next is a good thing
And being apprehensive about the future of things is also very reasonable

My issue was the assumption that the franchise is doomed and there's no good way to continue it
Just because ""nobody can think of a good way to do it""

[elfin parrot]

If he gets fully controlled by the Macula, it is hard for me to see him survive all of this and defeat the Macula inside him.

After Beatrice's death, Hugo was stiff and emotionless for quite a while. I imagine when Macula fully takes control of the carrier, the healing would be nigh impossible at this point.

And even then, the burden of regret would be immense

[elfin parrot]

Had to return to my very first message you reacted to. "Doomed" wouldn't be the word I would use, just end of franchise, which is not a bad thing in any way - every franchise has its beginning and end.

In my opinion, Requiem feels more like the last game of a franchise rather than a middle segment which next games build upon.

[proud berry]

I agree with that, Requiem has a lot of finality to it and quite nicely closes the book on the series
To me a Third game would be similar to something like Logan
And I don't mean "Amicia, but elderly"

It'd be more independent, a self reflection and twist on Amicia and the main games
If that makes sense

And also I think no matter what happens on a third game
I'd like to actually see somebody who gets afflicted with the bite

As a part of the story

[solar perch]

Amicia but elderly😂

[elfin parrot]

... We are certainly thinking more about the future of APT franchise than its creators themselves... 😅

[scarlet veldt]

well it shows that we really love the series and want the best for it

[harsh egret]

Well I reflected on that already, but if anything, I could see it as an interesting chance for a study and test of self-reflection for him, to maybe get in the grips with the actual reality that despite everything, it's hardly his fault. It would br pretty interesting to see the battle between his selfless, child-like idealism and self-loathing and more mature, astute and realistic view that hey, he doesn't deserve the hate, not from himself anyway.

To quickly jump on another topic; when talking about their duology and how inherently integral it is for A Plague Tale as a whole, I realized I never quite mentioned one pretty important thing about all of it: their age. One of the bigger things that made A Plague Tale Innocence (and Requiem I guess) just so captivating and fresh wasn't merely a TLOU or B:TOTS-style "two main characters" design, but the precise fact that Amicia is 15/16 year old girl and Hugo is a 5/6 year old boy. Meaning, I probably wouldn't be terribly receptive to writers changing that with some bigger jumps in the timeline i.e. seeing Amicia as a fully grown woman.

[urban lodge]

@harsh egret It´s pretty bad as I expected ahahah, but hey, I tried

[scarlet veldt]

[harsh egret]

Darth Macularys (previously Hugo De Rune), Dark Lord of the Sith, master of the Sith sorcery.

[urban lodge]

Indeed

Master of rat sorcery

[harsh egret]

It's... Kinda beautiful actually, his appearance doesn't give me the "irredeemable" or unsalvageable vibe at all.

[urban lodge]

My original idea was a lot worse, I changed it to this because I thought it was better

[harsh egret]

Imagine giving him a slightly darker/more shadowy complexion and more Macula veins, I would never again sleep

[urban lodge]

I had that in mind but it would take a while

[harsh egret]

Understandable. Was it done in Photoshop or..?

[urban lodge]

G.I.M.P
It´s basically free Photoshop with some slight downgrades

I have fun doing this kind of stuff, despite the result being mediocre at most, and it doesn´t take much time either (took around 30-40 minutes, but I had to start from stratch for being indecise with what I wanted)

[proud berry]

This is amazing!
I feel like Amicia is about to say "Don't try it Hugo, I have the high ground!"

[elfin parrot]

Maybe some people with AI skillz would help you out without altering Hugo's original appearance too much. Not me though, I rarely use AI generators.

[proud berry]

"You were my brother, Hugo. You were supposed to destroy the Macula - not join it!"

Now I think about it
Has Hugo ever given his opinion on sand?

[urban lodge]

Sand?

I don´t think so 😅

[elfin parrot]

Hugo: "I hate you!"
Amicia: "You were my brother, Hugo. I loved you."

[woeful mango]

A plague tale, well it's in the name, it's story about the plague, if the games are called Innocence and Requiem it's because the writers don't want to constrain themselves to simply a direct sequel with the same characters, as well as to introduce a philosophy to the game. Hugo will not return after the events of the game, if he returns then it will be before the events of Innocence or in a different situation from Requiem (for example in a modern or futuristic era and where we will investigate on the previous carriers, including Hugo). If in Requiem they introduced into the scenario the existence of order present everywhere in the world (via the souvenirs), as well as the possibility of predicting the place where the next carriers will come, it is because they will be elements most certainly used. As we say for cinema, we never introduce elements that will not be used for the narration, otherwise it is a bad movie, video games do not escape this rule even if it is a little more complex (because the gameplay can compensate for a shaky storyline). It is also likely that we will follow the journey of Aelia and Basilius, and their history, the link with the macula and therefore the impact they will have on the next carriers and protectors...

[urban lodge]

Well, the story isn't going to be called "Amicia and Hugo's tale"
It's a matter of word choice, but it doesn't mean it can follow any path it wants...

[harsh egret]

Not every game needs to have the names of their titular protagonists in the title in order to be only about them. Furthermore, here we are not necessarily discussing what we think a next game (if there ever is one) will be. It's generally more about discussing each of our preferences, what we would like to see, though the border between the two is admitedly blurry. But I don't think many in the community of APT are too big on the ideas you presented here, futuristic a.k.a modern day continuation, new characters to replace Hugo and Amicia etc.

[woeful mango]

I don't think that A plague tale is Hugo and Amicia, I think that they are simply stories that try to bring human relationships back to the center of the subject in a context of war and great epidemic, horrors that human can do and psychological suffering. Amicia and Hugo are very important for the history of the franchise, but A Plague tale is not only Hugo and Amicia, it is also all the characters that we meet and who totally upset the sequence of events, they are the characters from whom we learn things even though they are no longer in this world. I won't really see the plot point of bringing Hugo back in one way or another, he can also have a role without even coming back, simply by being in the minds of the characters, exactly like Aelia and Basilius did. influence the thoughts of Amicia and Hugo, while they were only immobile witnesses of the past.

(My comments may contain bad translations 😅)

[urban lodge]

The problem with having another set of main characters is that it contributes to a milking of the franchise, which very soon would ruin the series

Because one game with new characters would probably not be enough to give closure to their stories, but anything more would be too excessive both for the series and Asobo.

APT needs closure, and new characters aren't going to fix that. My take on it, either leave the franchise as it is, or do one last game to finish it all.

[woeful mango]

But screenwriters should not be constrained by communities and their desires, some works have become bland and without morals because screenwriters and directors have simply followed the expectations of fans. I think Asobo doesn't want to be forced to just make sequels that fans like, they came up with the ending of Requiem knowing full well that a lot of people weren't really going to like that ending, so I don't think that would bother them to change paths and change the main characters to serve their storylines.

[harsh egret]

Hard disagree with this, but appreciate your POV regardless.

As I said before, technically, you can turn/expand practically any story, any game/franchise by using previously unimportant side-characters, NPC's or side-artefacts. But it's extremely rarely done, and for painfully good reasons. To me (and I believe many as well) Hugo and Amicia ARE A Plague Tale, not just mere "once upon a time main characters that with time got shelved and replaced by others". That's just not right in my view.

And regardless, A Plague Tale as a whole never gave off the feeling that it can be expanded into many games in all sorts of settings (Assassin's Creed treatment, which you appear to be advocating). And it's reinforced by the other fact, it being that Asobo isn't nearly as big and powerful as Ubisoft, EA or any other game developer that can produce games almost on a whim; they MUST play it safe, careful and slow.

[woeful mango]

A Plague Tale is a franchise filled with secrets, questions, and some of these questions could never be answered in the context we know from Innocence and Requiem. Eventually if there is a sequel, if it had to answer everything I think that in this case Hugo would not be alive anyway but present in Amicia's mind. Possibly as a guide in passages refocused on psychological problems, with possibly passages like in The Medium, where we move from the present moment to a sort of parallel universe, which would be a universe where the Macula would be omnipresent, a little like at the end of Requiem at Marseille, in the Nebula.

[harsh egret]

Ok stop, now this, I feel is an outright attempt at guilt-tripping us, the audience into meekly going along with virtually whatever developers put out, cuz' "they always know the best". Guilt-tripping us for having clear visions, ideas, expectations and hopes of our own.
We pay for their games, we are their primary source of revenue, we like them/their games, we follow them and so on. This reads as if we are incapable or wise, detailed and valuable reviews and suggestions.

Not that we should have the power to force their hand and determine what next project should be like, of course not, but what you did here is an opposite extreme, and just as undesirable. Maybe I'm exaggerating it unjustly, but I see no other way to interpret this comment.

[elfin parrot]

Screenwriters however should sometimes listen to reasoned views of what hardcore fans would like to see or at least consider. Because it's not the screenwriters who bring them profit, it's the players themselves, and hardcore fans almost never miss because they love previous games/other media.

And genuinely care about next creations

[urban lodge]

Major problem is the story gave us more questions than it gave answers

[woeful mango]

I don't think changing the characters will make it something similar to Assassin's Creed (even on the commercial side) for the reason that today Assassin's Creed is first and foremost gameplay in historical contexts, while for A plague tale the most important thing is the storyline, the game can afford to make a sequel in the future of Amicia and Hugo as long as it serves the story that has already been established in the first games.

[elfin parrot]

The main issue is that we would have two games about Amicia and Hugo, and third game about someone completely different, maybe even not established in the lore yet. And it just wouldn't look good, especially if it's almost certain that Asobo won't be making any other games set in APT universe.

[urban lodge]

The game can, the studio can't...
Asobo is, or will very soon get tired of this, and they will need to move on...
They already spend 5 years on this, making one or two more games would literally take them a few more years.
Where is the limit to this question of "expanding the universe of A Plague Tale"? APT4? APT5? APT6?

At this point, what's on the table isn't even the franchise itself, but rather the impact it would have on Asobo's future

[harsh egret]

I think that's just incorrect: A Plague Tale upholds and respects the historical nature of its setting to a tremendous degree; it's one of the main things Innocence was lauded for back in the day. Of course it takes some small liberties, it's unavoidable with a supernatural, Eldritch entity posing as the main villain, but it's still very similar to Assassin's Creed.

[spring flare]

I'd actually understand very well if Asobo comes and says "We're tired of this series and we won't make a third game." Even I feel like really tired of a third APT just with what I talked here.

[woeful mango]

No, it was mainly to say that the writers can write a sequel that is totally the opposite of what the fans expect and that it remains something absolutely brilliant in terms of writing, (because I have seen a lot of fans say that the end of Requiem was rubbish, while on the plot and emotional side it is extremely strong and the construction of the whole story for this outcome remains genius)

[urban lodge]

Asobo themselves said they are a bit tired of APT

[elfin parrot]

The writing could be a bit polished, but the emotional impact it holds is undeniable, rare in all types of media.

[woeful mango]

But changing characters does not necessarily require adding more sequels, Plague Tale already has a fairly busy storyline with a lot of elements, if different characters are made, they will in any case have strong points in common with Amicia and Hugo because that’s how the Macula works. When we follow in the footsteps of Aelia and Basilius, we only retrace their own journey, without having embodied them for a single second, and yet (afterward, this is what I felt) we feel the very strong bond between them. united like the bond that united Amicia and Hugo.

[urban lodge]

Well, to add new characters you need to make another game...

And if needed, you would have to make a sequel to that new game in order to develop/progress the new character's story

[harsh egret]

That the plot and ending of Requiem or their construction was "GENIUS" or "briliant" is highly, highly debatable topic and should never be posited as a "matter of fact", merely an opinion.

And on the other side of the coin, just as there are those you mentioned, I've been seeing A LOT of people hailing Requiem's ending as a "masterpiece" without a second thought because "it made them cry so much 😭". So as you can see, there are uncritical, bad apples in every school of thought.

[proud berry]

As you said earlier it's the human bonds that make it a Plague Tale
Amicia and Hugo aren't necessarily all there is in that sense
There is all of the people that they meet along the way
(Arnaud for one )
It's about the Outcast and the Overlooked coming together to survive in a cruel world that doesn't care about them

There was a time where we did not know Amicia or Hugo
Where they were just strangers we had yet to grow with and learn to love as characters
New characters, be they replacements or new people Amicia meets, will go through the same things
Just because we don't yet know them, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to

[urban lodge]

[proud berry]

I think the series should not move on yet, because Amicia's story is not done
But look at the Witcher 4 which is coming out
It won't be about Geralt and everyone is fine with it
Because Geralt's story has already been told, and now we have somebody new to meet and root for

[elfin parrot]

You have to look at the whole situation from a much broader perspective. Asobo most certainly won't be making APT4 (hell, it's possible we ain't even getting APT3). That means you need to have a proper closure to the entire franchise with this potential third game. And new, non-established characters won't offer a proper closure to all three games.

[proud berry]

As I said, I think Amicia still has story left to tell so I'd rather it not move on yet
I think APT 3 should stay with Amicia

My statement was more about new characters in general
Aside from a complete new slate of characters, I know the same things have been said about a potential new carrier & protector that Amicia might meet
Or any other new characters

[woeful mango]

We can say that we like the end of Requiem or not, however the storyline evolution of Innocence until Requiem is brilliant, just the sub-names of the titles of the two games determine for each one what happens there in a word, And this makes sense once you finish the games, like the role of the order in Innocence which is only an anecdotal element but which takes on much more meaning when you play consecutively (for example the symbol of order on the house of Laurentius). Or even simply the development of the characters, Hugo who we can find unbearable at the beginning, then endearing, then a touching character, he has fairly realistic reactions to what a child of his age can think, and few games make really convincing of how a child would behave in such a context, and there are many other things that make the storyline of the series really great and brilliant.

[proud berry]

Also I might add it's quite possible to build back up from such a final ending
Look at what God of War did
It didn't seem like there could be another game, and the only character who carried over to 2018 was Kratos
But they sure made it work

[elfin parrot]

Fair enough. The only thing I have left to add is that if Asobo adds new carrier that Amicia would guide, the carrier must go through a whole lot of shit to keep the franchise somewhat historically accurate with the real number of casualties. At this point, it is much easier to just revive Hugo instead to evade overcomplicated story arc with the new carrier.

[harsh egret]

I have no time or energy left tonight for debating this, but I will say something regardless: I disagree; I personally never considered relation between Innocence and Requiem "briliant", almost on the opposite actually. They always felt very disconnected, with the sequel at many moments somehow feeling outright afraid or unwilling to openly mention or discuss events from Innocence. For me, the "feel of continuity" between these two games was sub-par at best; thematically, plot-wise and character-wise as well. And it only got worse the deeper I analyzed it.

Good night everyone.

[woeful mango]

No problem (I absolutely don't have the same feelings as you on this point, I find that the continuity is logical, it's not perfect but nothing ever is, there are always flaws, I don't think it's something mediocre, including on the subject of continuity)

Good night!

[proud berry]

Yeah I get the concern, especially because the power level is what's rarest about Hugo
But also let's say APT 3 takes place around a year after Requiem
Hugo went from 0-100 in nine months, and this could theoretically give a new carrier two off screen years to go through the thresholds

One thing I've never been sure about though
Is I've always thought there's a general plague of rats around
Like even if there wasn't a carrier, you'd still encounter some infestations of rats and stuff
I've always thought that made more sense than there being absolutely no rats without a carrier

[woeful mango]

From my interpretation, rats are present for several reasons (hygiene in cities, plague, etc...) but the presence of the carrier is a catalyst, the Macula seems present in all rats (except white rats in Innocence because it's a little bit different, but it can works too), and therefore already created a form of communication and intelligence between the rats, the presence of the carrier will intensify this phenomenon. There is something complex with the Macula, because it responds to the laws of nature, but at the same time not really (the fact that alchemy slows down the advance of the thresholds, but that the Macula breaks certain rules of the laws of nature).

[proud berry]

Aye this is how I see it!
The Rats, the Macula and the Carrier are almost one in the same, but also three separate things
I heard somebody describe the Macula as the collective voice of the rats all joined into one (idk if that makes sense but it sounds cool)
The Macula is a conduit through which the rats can organise and expand, whilst it uses them for its own means (consuming all things, blotting out the sun etc)

[urban lodge]

Average day in her life

[solar perch]

Life ain't easy for French kids

[elfin parrot]

Rough timeline of the creation of APT universe according to the making-of book:

1. Wanting to create a narrative-driven game with emotional impact.
2. Wanting to create a game similar to The Last Of Us in rough outline.
3. Wanting to use Bordeaux region as the setting of the game.
4. Decision to set the game in Middle Ages.
5. Decision to set the game in the period of the Black Plague AND Hundred Years' War.
6. Decision to add rats as the primary gameplay feature and the embodiment of the Plague itself.
7. Decision to throw a child [Amicia] into these two conflicts.
8. After some time, decision to add a second child [Hugo] that would accompany the first.
9. Decision to make Hugo face the cruel reality after his isolation from the world. Also this decision is what gave the first game its sub-title [Innocence].
10. Decision to make stealth integral to the game and to make players play as Amicia protecting her brother.
11. Decision to balance historical accuracy and fiction. This balance gave the game its title "tale".
12. The title A Plague Tale was thought up to highlight the balance between historical accuracy and fiction of the Black Plague - the storytelling should be based on historical facts mixed with fantasy elements.
13. The historical accuracy was secondary to the narrative and gameplay elements, however Asobo decided to not stray too far from real history.
14. Creation of non-playable demo to search for financing from publishers. They did not want to cooperate with Microsoft to have more liberty when developing this game.
15. Signing a contract with Focus Home Entertainment; usable budget under $10 million.
16. Almost a year later, creation of a "vertical slice" featuring the playable vision of Asobo. This demo followed the chapter titled "The Apprentice" and showed the game section from the fields to reaching the house of Laurentius. (Story has not been fully developed yet.)
17. Changing the pace of the game to be more dynamic.
18. ...

I gotta go now. I will try to continue later, but there was no information about Macula or anything remotely similar yet.

[woeful mango]

I ask him what A Plague Tale would be like without Hugo, there might not have been Lucas since Lucas is Laurentius' apprentice and Laurentius is trying to treat Hugo.

[elfin parrot]

I don't think I understand what you wrote. Might be translation issue

[woeful mango]

Surely 😭

[urban lodge]

Macula is onto something

[spring flare]

APT3 looks lit 🔥🔥🔥

[maiden goblet]

unfortunately, same

[solar perch]

I think this leak is fake

[urban lodge]

You sure? I had high hopes with this one

[proud berry]

"I'll just be a mother! Watching the first steps of a god!"

[spring flare]

To prevent any risk of spoiler, I wish to ask something here. Assuming that there would be a third APT, and it would take Amicia as the main protagonist again, would you want to see romance? And if so, who would you deem as worthy of Amicia's love?

[harsh egret]

Eh, not really... It's not impossible, but I think it'd be heavily out of place. I still remember when there were strong exchanges here and elsewhere about Amicia+Lucas pairing, I find them best suited for a Platonic love type of relationship.

[scarlet veldt]

Yeah it's not the series where I would think about something like this

[proud berry]

Nobody tbh
It's not what the series is about

[umbral bay]

Well for me no one because the series isn't about it

[urban lodge]

Basically what everyone said above.
I don't feel as APT's story holds a place for romance, only family's love and friendship...

[elfin parrot]

I am gonna be the only one reacting who would like to see at least some degree of relationship growth between Amicia and Lucas.

I won't be going into too much detail because I was scolded here before and on Reddit as well, but I think that a subtle act of Lucas holding hand with Amicia in the very end of third game would be fitting and would not feel out of place in APT game. That would be it, nothing more.

I wish for Amicia to finally find happiness, and no other established character proved to have some kind of chemistry with her. Only Lucas.

... Puritans in 3... 2... 1...

[harsh egret]

(Cromwell 1970)

[proud berry]

She can find happiness without finding love though
I know you didn't say otherwise
But there are many other ways she can find happiness
I think the Number 1 way would be therapy, ofc
I've seen it a few times in the community but I don't understand the "Amicia finally finds happiness = Amicia in a relationship" thing
It feels very outdated

[elfin parrot]

Of course she can find happiness through different means, that's completely fair. As long as Amicia can finally rest and heal from her trauma, I would be glad for anything.

However some people also find happiness through real mutual love, Amicia could potentially be one of them.

[proud berry]

Same!

Some people do yes, but Amicia has never even hinted that it's something she feels she's missing
A relationship wouldn't fix her problems because the lack of one isn't an issue for her at all

A relationship wouldn't fix her PTSD from killing people

[elfin parrot]

That would be a nice topic for discussion, however y'all won't bait me again into it.

I have said my controversial opinion and that's where I stop.

[umbral bay]

Hey guys I want to ask you something

Do you know guys when the plague tale innocence medallion gonna be in stock in focus entertainment?

Because it's been so long in waiting list

[harsh egret]

No idea...

[umbral bay]

Ohh okay

I been waiting for almost a year now and they havent put it in the stock

[harsh egret]

Both Asobo and Focus have been quiet on that one for a loong time..

[umbral bay]

Ohh so does that mean I ll never get it?

[harsh egret]

Not necessarily, but we don't have any info on it as of now.

[umbral bay]

Do you how can I ask them?

[harsh egret]

Emailing is always an option I guess. Twitter, maybe even on this Discord.

[urban lodge]

The medallion doesn't seem to be limited time only, so it's likely they put it back some day

If not, you can easily find very similar medallions on the internet by searching "Tree of life necklesses"

[solar perch]

Probably never coming back

[umbral bay]

Okay

[elfin parrot]

Probably coming back with APT3, but that's a huge IF.

[umbral bay]

Okay thank you for telling me

[umbral bay]

Maybe

[solar perch]

I tried ordering mine with the re collector's edition. But it fell through cus apparently they didn't have one in stock way back then either despite being listed as available

[urban lodge]

You can register with your email and they will tell you when it's in stock again

[solar perch]

I doubt they are gonna make more

Waiting list has been up for ages

[umbral bay]

Really

[solar perch]

Aaaaages ago

Since like last year

[umbral bay]

Thats not lot right?

[urban lodge]

I am surprised to see the colector's edition for both games is still available. I thought it was something that lasted only a few months after release and never came back again

[solar perch]

No wait

[umbral bay]

But hey how is everyone doing

[solar perch]

I mean 2 year ago

[umbral bay]

Dang thats lot

[solar perch]

Forgot it was 2024 already

[umbral bay]

Why they havent put it yet

What are they like waiting for?

[solar perch]

Probably either not in production

[urban lodge]

If it doesn't sell enough they probably won't make as much

[solar perch]

Or they don't have demand

[umbral bay]

True

[urban lodge]

The colector's edition comes with it, right?

[solar perch]

Considering how many "hardcore" fans there are is it worth it

[umbral bay]

But how are you guys

[solar perch]

I think Innocence did with the press kit

[urban lodge]

Doing as usual

[solar perch]

But it's different

[proud berry]

A Plague Tale is such a lethal story
Like there's only four people who survive
And we never see what happens to one of them after the first game

If you happen to come across Amicia in that world, you have like a 99% chance of dying

[elfin parrot]

Maybe Clervie survived

And that's it from named NPCs in Innocence I think

[proud berry]

She definitely did
Do you think she's aware of the events of Requiem?

Maybe she's like "I can't wait for my annual trip to Marseille with my family, we'll go in the loveliest season"

[elfin parrot]

The utter destruction of Marseille is not exactly subtle. I am sure all of France learns about it pretty quickly.

[harsh egret]

I guess the news would've killed King Phillip VI

(died in 1350)

[proud berry]

I find the idea of Clervie being clueless quite funny, but you are right xD
Maybe she just thinks they're doing some open plan renovating

[dark seal]

Mmmm

Lucas is good for Amicia, but I don’t think Amicia would be good for Lucas

At least as romantic partners

Amicia would have to heal first before any romance I think

[granite grove]

Where did it go

[urban lodge]

Where did what go

[scarlet veldt]

Where did what go when

[cerulean lintel]

how did it go

[proud berry]

Why did it to

[urban lodge]

With who did it go

[sudden bridge]

what go

[proud berry]

Hurgo

[solar perch]

Hyugoe

[dark seal]

Hrug

[harsh egret]

Wtf is going on in here?

Not in the loop, sry...

[proud berry]

Hug

[scarlet veldt]

Hug mentionned

[solar perch]

When you accidentally step into a really negative video and its comment section about APT.

I do not belong here...

[harsh egret]

Context?

[solar perch]

Got a notif and reply to a comment I posted on a negative review of Requiem. So I clicked on it and scrolled through the comments.
I am a liker of the game so the video is obviously not for me and for those who dislike it.
Just comments saying stuff like bad writing, bad voice acting, boring walking sim, game was pointless

[dark seal]

Bad voice acting? Be serious.

[harsh egret]

Oh.. Well, that sucks I guess.

Balanced reviews, that aren't afraid to bash the game where they think it needs to be bashed nor praise it to the high heavens where they think it should be praised to the high heavens are best for me, generally.

[dark seal]

I understand if people have different opinions but I cannot wrap my head around how people think Charlotte McBurney did BAD voice acting?

[elfin parrot]

Average APT enjoyer:

[dark seal]

Amicia’s voice acting in requiem was the best performance I’ve seen in the history of video games

[harsh egret]

And the video? Maybe I know it from before...

[solar perch]

Agree to disagree but yh

[solar perch]

A Plague Tale: Disappointing

But yeah there are better balanced reviews which align more with my thoughts on the game

[harsh egret]

Let me see...

Oh yeah, I remember this video. Haven't seen it in a while tho, thought it was longer.

[solar perch]

https://youtu.be/oq8gZaTQM-k?si=IjKm88uHW-2lL7Uf
Haven't seen this one yet

[harsh egret]

Eh, what can I say, I think he was a bit too harsh with the title and some parts of his review. Other critiques could've been expanded upon for better understanding as well.

[proud berry]

I've seen some weird complaints about the series
One that stuck out to me was "Why does Amicia keep searching for a cure for Hugo? The most logical thing would be to kill him before he does damage. She's a bad character."

Character having strong personal values that cause conflict and drive the story = Bad Character, apparently

[proud berry]

Very good video, highly recommend
Touches on alot of things
Their own personal experiences with the game, which was relatable
They touch on tenebris, the transition between games

And he mentions the Illusion Theory at the end

He doesn't agree with it, but puts across the theory very fairly and informatively

Very much "Hey I don't agree with this personally, but here's an interesting theory people like"

[solar perch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm8SQ6hRadI
Quite like this one
Also has one on Innocence

[harsh egret]

Ugh, never seen this, but these seemingly pretentious titles really annoy me. And "broke me" also leaves a mark.

[urban lodge]

Well, a few things are debatable, but people have right to their opinions just as we do

Everyone has their taste I guess

Problem is, most of the time people instantly resort to "x is bad, y sucks" instead of making an actual argument for why it is such

[proud berry]

He addresses this, his reason for putting that is because

||His parents died when he was young, and for a while it was just him and his older sister who he had a close bond with. But between the two games releasing, his sister died too leaving just him.||

[harsh egret]

Indeed. Plus, I am rarely if ever keen on mocking videos like these because since I am myself critical of Requiem and its story in certain regards, I am much better receptive to reviews critical of it and can digest then a lot faster, though even I am ready to voice disagreement when I feel they go too far.

[ornate plume]

hey guys what's up

[sudden bridge]

I'm good mate, how's your day been?

[ornate plume]

It was very nice, thank you.As someone who just finished the game.

I'm kidding mate, who wrote this story?

please someone tell me it was a dream.

[harsh egret]

It was a dream 😊

[urban lodge]

It was... an illusion

Jk 🙂

[ornate plume]

It doesn't sound convincing, but whatever.

Does anyone know if there will be a sequel?

Studio is hiring, but where will the story go?

I'm jacob, by the way.

[urban lodge]

Sequel isn't confirmed in any way, we don't know what's coming

[fallen cosmos]

I’d say a sequel is bang on to come sooner or later. Though like it’s been said, nothing confirmed as of yet. At least we have the TV series to look forward to

[umbral bay]

what do you mean

[fallen cosmos]

?

[umbral bay]

I mean the tv show is there gonna be something like that

[fallen cosmos]

Yes there’s a TV series coming

It’s in very early stages at the moment though

[umbral bay]

where did you read that

[fallen cosmos]

I was talking to the director not long ago

[umbral bay]

who director

[fallen cosmos]

Mathieu Turi

[umbral bay]

ohh okay thank you

he gonna do a plague tale movie?

[urban lodge]

No, just the show

[fallen cosmos]

Not movie. Series

[umbral bay]

aa okay

[ornate plume]

what could the new sequel be about?

[urban lodge]

We've done a lot of discussion on this and we're kind of split in it

Personally, I want either the franchise to stop where it is right now, or a final APT game with Amicia and Hugo to close off the series

[fallen cosmos]

Well, given the end of Requiem, it seems like we’re going to be moving forward in time to a more modern era.

I can’t say with any certainty what the game will be like. I would love some sort of collectibles where you find notes written by Amicia, giving more info on her journey and more info on the Macula etc…

[fallen cosmos]

As much as I’d want that too, do you believe that could ever happen? The end of requiem seemed to wrap up their story pretty well

I would however love a prequel around Basilius

[urban lodge]

I do believe it's a much better option than any modern era scenario, which would go terribly wrong unless executed perfectly

[fallen cosmos]

I just don’t see how they could backtrack

[urban lodge]

Modern era scenario breaks the logic and flow of the franchise both in story and in gameplay

[solar perch]

I want a prequel with Aelia and Basil

[fallen cosmos]

I have faith in Asobo to pull it off

[urban lodge]

I...don't
Not with this scenario

[fallen cosmos]

The series has to move forward. I understand you like the game as they are. And that’s perfectly valid, but what more can they do with Amicia and Hugo? Their story is over. Quite literally for Hugo

[urban lodge]

If their story is over then the franchise should be aswell, at least that's my take on it

[solar perch]

I personally don't want another game. At most take a prequel

[harsh egret]

It literally doesn't have to move forward, nor do I find it advisable; quite the contrary. I certainly don't feel every single story has to be turned into an overstretched franchise, and in the case of A Plague Tale and just how these games are, that's doubly the case. These games simply don't have the gameplay-based prerequisites for going the route of Assassin's Creed.

One last game for a Star Wars or LOTR-styled trilogy would be workable, but nothing more, and considering just how... tricky is what they did with Requiem's ending, it would be extremely hard to construct a plot that would feel like A Plague Tale and not some damn spinoff. The closest candidate for succeeding in that, in my opinion is the Illusion Theory, regardless of if it would feel like going back on Requiem's ending or not, I find any other option simply not good enough.

[fallen cosmos]

I want Hugo to be alive and to go back to their story and find a cure for him as much as the next person, but I’m just thinking about it rationally given the ending we got in Requiem.

I totally understand and respect your opinion, it’s the great thing about life, everybody has one. I just don’t personally believe that, that is the route Asobo are going to go down. I know you say you don’t care about them backtracking with the illusion theory, but many people will.

They’ve hinted at a modern day sequel and there are still ways to tie Amicia and Lucas into a new story without washing out Requiems ending

[urban lodge]

The devs said the modern day scene is merely to indicate that the Macula'a cycle goes on, so it doesn't really mean much

[fallen cosmos]

They didn’t have to show that scene however. We know the Macula’s cycle goes on. We lived it with Hugo, he wasn’t the first to have it. They showed that scene for a reason I believe

[urban lodge]

And aparently they said they are aware that replacing Amicia and Hugo would ruin the franchise, but I'm still trying to find the source

[fallen cosmos]

I haven’t read that anywhere. Not that you’re wrong. I just haven’t seen it. I mean I’ll be totally honest, would I LOVE to see a third game that somehow explains that Hugo is alive and we get to continue his story? Absolutely, there’s nothing I want more. I just can’t see it happening

[ornate plume]

I agree, the story is built around them and that's why I played this game.

[harsh egret]

First of all, tying Amicia and Lucas into a new story doesn't even begin to "wash out" Requiem's ending, only bringing Hugo back may start that, but anyhow.

Also, this isn't about "thinking rationally" as you said, because majority of the discourse here isn't necessarily about what we think or predict is going to happen next, but what we would personally prefer and/or find the best option for a continuation. And in my book, Illusion Theory is at the top among all the other (admittedly flawed in their own way) options.

Even I, arguably the biggest proponent of the theory and its benefits in case of implemention on this chat, would massively hesitate to bet my money on its probability of happening.

[urban lodge]

Interesting interview with APT devs:
https://www.prankster101.com/articles/interview-with-kevin-choteau-and-kevin-pinson-of-a-plague-tale-requiem/

[fallen cosmos]

I didn’t say tying Amicia and Lucas into a new story would wash out Requiems ending. I said there are ways to do that without washing out the ending.

I have also said I respect your opinion and preference on where you’d like the story to go, hell, I even share your opinion. But I was asked a question “what could the new sequel be about?” And I gave my answer

[ornate plume]

I agree with that too, but they need to design very well on the sequel of this theory.

[harsh egret]

That is fine, I think we are beginning to have sort of a misunderstanding here.

But I'm interested: how about bringing Hugo back, alive, AND ALSO NOT washing out the ending? Is it achievable in your opinion? I think so, but it would require a very quality subtext and build-up.

[solar perch]

The only possible way I can think of without bringing him back but also being here is like Batman Arkham Knight. Where Batman just hallucinates Joker who is dead

[fallen cosmos]

I guess with quality writing anything is possible and I’d certainly love to see that!

I guess my main issue with bringing Hugo back is that a death of a video game character has never affected me in the way that his did. I hated it, I loved it, I cried, I smiled. I went through such an emotional rollercoaster that I feel like if they done a sequel and said “haha got you, it was all an illusion” it would really tarnish that experience I had with its ending

[urban lodge]

We could have something like Melina from Elden Ring maybe? She doesn´t really exist phisically anymore but she still apears "spiritually" in the game ( @elfin parrot I may be saying huge crap right now so correct me if I´m wrong)

Hugo would still be dead in some way, but he would apear throught the Macula

[harsh egret]

Yeah, we kind of discussed this option many months before, I think, even if on the surface it appears to accomplish the goal, on the whole it still just doesn't cut it: if Hugo is reduced to a mere PTSD induced hallucination, it would never bring the stakes up enough for a third game, which would in most cases require them to even surpass the second game (it being Requiem).

[fallen cosmos]

I could see something like this working

[woeful mango]

Lucas told Amicia and Hugo that they were his family 👉 Falling in love of someone in your family 😏

🧐

[fallen cosmos]

Perhaps Basilius and Hugo are still conscious in some sort of spirit realm due to the macula and they can help the new carrier overcome it once and for all. We could still tie Amicia into the story too by finding her letters throughout the game that help guide us too

[harsh egret]

Yeah as you can see, it's all a matter of perspectives. I did have a reaction too, but it very quickly morphed into a sour, annoying feeling. So I was never quite in board with it, nor affected in the way the writers (likely) intended.

[fallen cosmos]

That’s totally fair! I’m glad you have a different opinion than I do. Opens up some doors for a healthy debate

[harsh egret]

Mhm..

At the end of the day, I guess that's why we're here.

[fallen cosmos]

Can we all agree that if there is a third game, Olivier Dereviere absolutely must return to create the soundtrack?

It’s absolutely brilliant in every way

[ornate plume]

a story can't be written so heavily, man, everyone is waiting for hope, dear authors 🙂

[harsh egret]

I guess so. However, last time I saw him, he "confirmed" flatly that he isn't working on any A Plague Tale related project as of now, and we know that Asobo is having an active project at the moment.

[ornate plume]

yes, the music is incredible

[fallen cosmos]

The soundtrack can come later though! The game (if being made) will be in its very very early stages right now. I hope he does return!

Also, if Asobo wanted to keep the game on the DL, Olivier wouldn’t say he’s working on it

I’m very excited to show you all my tattoo when it’s finished. Have half of it done now

[urban lodge]

DL?

[fallen cosmos]

Down low

[urban lodge]

ah

[fallen cosmos]

(Keeping it quiet)

[urban lodge]

If hipotetically, they were making APT3 atm, they would reveal the game this year or next year

Innocence´s reveal (2017)
Innocence´s release (2019)
Requiem´s reveal (2021)
Requiem´s release (2022)

But I doubt it honestly. Considering the upcoming games it wouldn´t be good for them either, with stuff like Death Stranding 2, Elden Ring´s DLC, Silksong and GTA 6 coming

[fallen cosmos]

Honestly I’d just be happy with an announcement trailer this year

That’s all I need

Confirmation it’s happening and I’m a happy guy

[harsh egret]

Well if it's of any consolation, we do have confirmation that something is happening, just whether or not it's A Plague Tale related...

[fallen cosmos]

Very true.. god I hope so

Realistically, if it’s another collab between Focus & Asobo, it’s not going to be anything else right? Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part

[harsh egret]

The best we can say is we don't know. But logically it doesn't need to be just A Plague Tale..

[fallen cosmos]

Yeah I know. I just REALLY want it to be

[urban lodge]

Now, to further develop this idea:

Hugo: But it´s like...like it´s not my mind...
Amicia: Is it...Basilius´?
Hugo: Maybe. It´s really heavy...I´m scared...

Later on in the chapter there´s a voice line which sort of says that it was Basilius that brought them to the island, but it may be just a matter of choice of words.

They could establish some new aspect of the Macula, the possibility of Carriers connecting to each other and/or other people. This would make it easier to have Hugo present in the story while still being tecnically "dead". He would be able to, in some ocasions, comunicate with Amicia in some way, be it in her head, dreams, whatever...

The problem with this is how to make it logical that he can comunicate with her, despite Amicia not being a Carrier.

[harsh egret]

True, but Amicia does share a blood bond with him. So if anything, her unawakened Macula or rather, her connection to the real Carrier could indirectly connect her to the Macula, not in terms of getting its powers, but merely being able to communicate..

That being said, it would be hard, though not impossible but still hard to justify this new aspect when there were plenty of chances to at least start expanding upon that in Requiem.

Also again, for me the Illusion Theory can work in its full potential only if Hugo is actually alive, not just present in the game through being merely a figment of Amicia's imagination or some telepathic effect of the Macula.

[elfin parrot]

The origin of Melina is still unknown and only theories might get you some possible scenarios. However, she seemingly possesses the same power as Margit/Morgott - teleportation.

It's difficult to imagine, but I can see Hugo appear in Nebula or similar fog. The issue is you still need a powerful carrier if Hugo is really dead.

[elfin parrot]

Nah, that's just theoretical statement, not legal bond

[elfin parrot]

Basilius might be, because his death was different than Hugo's, and so was the aftermath, at least according to the making-of book.

Basilius seems to have died to Macula specifically.

[harsh egret]

And if you do get a powerful Carrier immediately after Hugo, in my opinion it pretty much cheapens the whole air of specialness that Hugo (or known Carriers in general) have so far: their incredible rarity.

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, it would feel like desperation. The urgency to artificially create another carrier just for the sake of third story.

[elfin parrot]

Maybe carriers do share some collective consciousness with their predecessors. Or maybe the bond exists only with Basilius, who was consumed whole by the Macula.

Who knows... This is nothing but a big speculation with no proofs to back it up

[woeful mango]

Mélie and Arthur surely come from a family of bandits or simply from a poor family, it's true that there is a whole mystery about their origin since they never really talk about it, they don't even really know themselves who they are and what they want because they have always lived the same way trying to survive

[elfin parrot]

If Asobo makes a third APT game, I hope they utilize what's already present in the lore and only then add something completely new, that does not contradict previous games. New players may not notice it, but hardcore fans would have serious issues with consistency.

[woeful mango]

For a while I assumed they were from England, they actually reminded me of the story of Robin Hood but in a non-fiction version 🤔

[elfin parrot]

That's true, but why did you started to talk about them? Elaborate please

[woeful mango]

Because i'm stupide and I just read "Melie" and not "Melina" 😭

[elfin parrot]

Happens to best of us, don't worry

Different game

[woeful mango]

Imagine, Hugo and Basilius could be powerful enough together to act directly on reality, even after death, or even speak to Amicia in cause of the blood bond.

That would be crazy!

[ornate plume]

Assuming the illusion theory and, as you say, Hugo's full potential return and recruitment, I think they might be working on a good rat show. it doesn't require Hugo to return but it's an idea for a good ending

[urban lodge]

I think acting directly on reality after death is a bit of a stretch, but the blood bond with Amicia is more pratical in theory to apply

[elfin parrot]

The problem is: No carrier = no plague rats.

No plague rats = no A Plague Tale

[ornate plume]

I'm sorry, I don't understand why there are no carriers and no rats.

[woeful mango]

It could act on reality in some way like with Nebula, or with rats. In the game Lucas says that the Nebula even exceeds the laws of nature, perhaps they could make this happen again without a career crossing the last threshold. Because it was in the Nebula that Hugo spoke to Amicia and gave her his visions.

[elfin parrot]

Hence why I stated two or three days ago: The most ideal way to continue the franchise with last game is Hugo waking up as villain lost to the Macula. It has it's own issues, but so far I can't think of anything better that would have similar vibe as previous games and do not contradict already established lore.

[urban lodge]

The problem is, there's no nebula or anything rat related without a Carrier, so I guess there's really no point where that would be used

[elfin parrot]

If you don't have Hugo as carrier, you need to create a completely new character that would serve the role as carrier. And plague rats only exist due to carriers (so far).

[ornate plume]

Okay, so I made the assumption that he's not dead and that the macula's still going strong.

[elfin parrot]

After the one year hiatus, yes.

[ornate plume]

yes the story ended very interesting. i wonder what will happen next

[woeful mango]

I think it is perhaps more complex, for me the Nebula is something which appeared well before the first careers, there is a very strong link between the Nebula (and therefore the darkness and everything that goes with it) with the rats, it could have been in the Nebula that the first appearance of the Macula as well as the first blood bond took place. Moreover, it seems to me that in the pockets containing the rats, when these pockets open there are also Nebula vapors coming out, this could indicate that the rats are born from the Nebula.

[elfin parrot]

Me too. But personally I bet Asobo works on different IP now...

[woeful mango]

Perhaps the Nebula arrived before nature, which will eventually explain why the Nebula prevents the laws of nature from occurring.

[elfin parrot]

This is interesting and not far from the possible truth. In the first ideas for APT Innocence, the Plague itself was a dark mist. Only then Asobo decided that rats are better gameplay-wise.

[elfin parrot]

Only the center of Nebula does so, Lucas the Wise said it.

[woeful mango]

It’s true, besides I still wonder where these pockets full of rats come from? What created them? Perhaps Basilius or the Macula, because that would explain their location and that there are on every path that Hugo and Amicia take from the discovery of Basilius' body

[dark seal]

Carriers do have some form of communication after their deaths, if it was Basilius who brought Amicia and Hugo to La Cuna

If that’s the case, and there’s a new carrier while Amicia is still alive…could Hugo somehow bring the carrier to Amicia ?

[woeful mango]

Moreover, the fact that there seems to be Nebula vapors coming out of it could possibly mean that it does not respond to the laws of nature either.

[elfin parrot]

We don't really know. We can speculate that Hugo's Macula somehow ordered them to be born when he arrived on La Cuna or shortly after, hence why they are still in the amniotic sacs, or that Basilius is not as dead as he seems when we find him.

[elfin parrot]

The grave in Chateau in Innocence either belongs to a carrier, or a high ranking member of the Order. But Hugo felt nothing at that point.

[woeful mango]

Maybe it's what she means when she says "I think throw where the futur careers and protectors will be"

[harsh egret]

What do you mean by "a good rat show"? Ratatouille?

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, I don't think she can predict where the next carrier will be born. But she will listen to rumours about sudden spread of rats in certain area.

[dark seal]

Exactly!

And if a carrier is born while she is alive, they might be guided towards Amicia like Hugo was guided towards Basilius and Aelia

[urban lodge]

The Carrier would need to have a dream/visions of Amicia then

[elfin parrot]

Maybe with capital M. But the more possible scenario is that the Order finds this new carrier first and Amicia then steals this carrier.

Or kidnaps

[urban lodge]

One of my inicial ideas for a third game was with an evil Order leader trying to kill the current Carrier or getting a hold on him

He has the knowledge and resources, it would make a good villain and expand the Order's lore

[elfin parrot]

Behold, realistic Amicia!

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, definitely a good idea making the story focused more on the Order itself.

[elfin parrot]

It was posted two months ago on Reddit. It's weird I missed it.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/PlagueTaleInnocence/s/dJDydes93A

[woeful mango]

Wow! What do you use for this result?

Oh ok !

[elfin parrot]

Posted the original Reddit link. Legit thought it was something new

[urban lodge]

I mean, it's not that bad...
It's almost an Innocence 2.0, instead of the Inquisition searching Hugo there's now the Order seeking the current Carrier, it could work I think...

It expands the lore, gives Amicia a reason to get "active" again and can even open the possibility to some crazy environments and gameplay changes (big castles and Order structures, new gameplay elements, etc)

[elfin parrot]

You know what? This might be the approach Asobo writers choose for third game. It is most probable in my opinion.

[urban lodge]

It would be a similar situation to Telltale Walking Dead Season 3, where Clementine becomes sort of a "pillar" character that gives guidance and protection to the new ones.

But in this case, it's an older/wiser/more experienced Amicia going to help the hipotetical new Carrier and Protector

[elfin parrot]

Amicia might assume the role of Protector again. I think that the Carrier would be alone this time.

[urban lodge]

It could be

Once again, similar to Walking Dead. Clementine taking the role of a big sister/mother taking care of a child that is not related to her

[fallen cosmos]

And then Amicia takes the new character to a church and performs a seance and casts Hugo’s soul into the new carrier and they live happily ever after.. right?? RIGHT?? No? Fine I’ll let myself out

[proud berry]

This is what I want

I think the Order should be the main villains

Clearly they do have something nefarious on

And definitely have inner circles and secrets
Like clearly Magister Vaudin was privy to more information about Basilius & The Macula than Beatrice was

I have a feeling that maybe there are different factions within the order
Or they have hidden goals behind just finding a cure

Personally I think they were also trying to find a way to use Basilius to their advantage and control him, like the Count was trying to use Hugo

[elfin parrot]

I would like to see the Order divided into "good" members with good intentions to help people, and "bad" members with more nefarious plans.

Or some kind of internal dispute.

[elfin parrot]

That is interesting. It was never explained or at least hinted why Vaudin did not want to talk about La Cuna... Maybe because the Order saw it as an absolute failure they were responsible for and were tasked to keep it secret.

[proud berry]

Heart of a Plague tale also says they covered up what happened on La Cuna afterwards, which makes sense

Clearly they also had other intentions for Basilius
Nobles traveled to La Cuna to see him (allegedly) and he was treated like an Emperor

I wouldn't be surprised if the Order were doing some Bene Gesserit type of stuff
Meddling with things from the shadows, putting people in places etc
To try and bring about a New Carrier exactly where and how they want

[proud berry]

I think it would be more obliviously ignorant Vs actively nefarious
People like Beatrice who might be a bit cold but are well meaning alchemists who want to try and cure things
Vs the Upper Echelons of the Order who have their own secret goals for things

[sudden bridge]

is Beatrice a part of the Order?

[ornate plume]

They are hiring, so I thought something like this. they should do a good job compared to the previous game. new mechanics, NPC AI, and if the macula is at full power, they should make a good visual feast with rats. of course, I don't know what else they can do, but it's imagination
I don't know what ratatouille is, sorry.

[urban lodge]

Never confirmed in any way, but considering she was an experienced alchemist that knew about the Order's existence it's likely that she was conected to them in some way

[proud berry]

Plus she has the Magistra title

I'd also like to see the bite explored more, and how regular people handle the spread of the bite

It doesn't need to be much and I know the Bite is just the Bubonic Plague
But it would be cool to see
Maybe a Joseph-type character gets bit and slowly deteriorates

[elfin parrot]

Interesting is that the Bite is spread only through direct rat bite, whereas the Black Death is spread through several other means.

[sudden bridge]

apprently Amicia is immune to it, no matter how many times you let the rats nibble you but not kill you, she will survive unscathed

[harsh egret]

What @urban lodge said. Also, keep in mind that Order symbols appear in Laurentius' house in Innocence.

[sudden bridge]

yes I remember seeing it during the nightmare sequence

[elfin parrot]

Not the first time I hear this. In my opinion, Amicia was never bitten by a rat, otherwise it would throw you to "Amicia is dead" screen.

The moment a rat touches Amicia, she has a second or two to shrug the rat off, otherwise it starts biting her.

She does not seem to have some kind of immunity against the Bite, nor does any character who accompanies Amicia and stumbles upon rats.

[scarlet veldt]

Can a rat bite through leather shoes like she wears tho

[sudden bridge]

if they can chew through server grade cables, I don't think a bit of leather is gonna get in their way

[scarlet veldt]

Oh

(I dont know anything about rats)

[spring flare]

Plus wouldn't some sort of immunity to rats wouldn't work in a way where rats don't touch anyone instead of approaching and biting but having no affect? It seems kinda pointless to have an immunity to rat bites rather than something that keeps the rats at bay.

[elfin parrot]

You mean like some kind of force field that pushes all nearby rats away? 😅

[spring flare]

Maybe some sort of scent that keeps the rats away/diminishes their interest at you? Or maybe some drink that once you drink it will mix with your blood and thus will keep the rats at bay.

[elfin parrot]

Hugo had this ability in Innocence.

[sudden bridge]

why doesn't it happen again in Requiem?

does it advance the threshold or something?

[elfin parrot]

Gameplay purpose...

To not make Hugo overpowered from the beginning

[proud berry]

He only uses it at the end of the game, to clear the way to him

I think using any powers upsets the balance of his blood/fills up the stress metre
So he doesn't use it

[elfin parrot]

Which is weird, because in Innocence he was totally fine and not even exhausted after the fight with Nicholas and/or Vitalis.

[harsh egret]

Inconsistency much? I noted this like you before, and my go-to explanation was just that.

[spring flare]

Inconsistency here is the best answer, but maybe something happened to him in the six months between the two games? Macula may have stayed dormant within him, but we don't know if it didn't tire him, or weaken him.

[elfin parrot]

Could be, but we will never know.
Or maybe the TV series will address it.

[spring flare]

Wait what?

What TV series?

[elfin parrot]

A Plague Tale TV series is planned, but it takes suspiciously long time.

Very little information is known at the moment

I think someone mentioned it yesterday

http://www.sneakpeek.ca/2022/03/a-plague-tale-innocence.html?m=1

For example ⬆️

[maiden goblet]

do you have a https link?

[elfin parrot]

No, it was the first site that showed up after I searched for "A Plague Tale TV series".

I am sure there are many other sites telling pretty much the same, it's nothing new

[spring flare]

https://gamerant.com/the-last-of-us-tv-series-plague-tale-expectations/ I found this, although it's something more like written to promote the Last of Us. Still, there's some information if it's reliable.

[harsh egret]

"TLOU set new standards for video game adaptations"? LOL. It was ok and nothing more.

[spring flare]

I mean it's nearly impossible for a video game adaptation to set new standarts. The best you can do is follow your story that's well-written. Don't most of these adaptations already suffer because of this?

[urban lodge]

Adaptations suffer because they are made with the critics in mind instead of the fans

[solar perch]

Any advice for them?? /s

[elfin parrot]

Go play first person shooters, narrative-driven games ain't for ya

[urban lodge]

Tell them straight foward that they are the main characters

[elfin parrot]

When they are already annoyed with them, there's no need for them to continue the story, because they are not going to enjoy it.

Their loss

[urban lodge]

I like how this person played the first 3 chapters, roughly 2 hours of gameplay, and doesn't even knowledge them by their name

Unless by the three characters he/she means Amicia, Robert and Lion 😂

[solar perch]

I think they are playing Requiem

[urban lodge]

Ah

That's even worse

[elfin parrot]

Without playing Innocence first? That's heresy...

[solar perch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/APlagueTale/comments/198o1rt/i_couldnt_find_the_main_theme_anywhere/
This person keeps asking for music and tracks from the game which are unreleased. They are asking for that music that plays during the home screen on the PS5. Since the chats got deleted I don't have it on me. I'll just direct them to the gamerip page. But I don't know which number it is I have a feeling @full flower knows which one it is

[urban lodge]

In their defense, they probably downloaded the game throught PS+ without knowing anything about the franchise

[harsh egret]

Subreddit has reached 10k members

[elfin parrot]

I wasn't active on Reddit for a couple of weeks. Is it just me or is the APT subreddit full of random clips now?

Like 8 out of 10 posts are just links to random clips about both games.

[harsh egret]

Well somewhat. For the past several months the subreddit has largely been reduced to two plus one types of posts: the ones you just mentioned (although they aren't back-to-back like in your screenshot), the "I just finished the game" types of posts, and monthly photomode contests. The detailed discussions aren't as wide and numerous as they were when game was 6>months old..

[ornate plume]

epic games recently gave away the first game for free, so I started and realized that the game was really great, so I bought the second game. and then I'm here

[elfin parrot]

What a sad state of affairs. At least discord is still doing somewhat fine, some of the new members are active regularly.

[harsh egret]

Oh no, sorry, perhaps I described it worse than it actually is but the last part of my comment regarding thinned plot/theory discussion threads is true, though not to some utterly hopeless degree.

[elfin parrot]

Although I can imagine it was much better when Requiem was still fresh

[elfin parrot]

Don't worry, I scrolled through subreddit and it really feels empty, unwelcoming even.

It's not as fun as it was

[harsh egret]

I can largely agree, though could you elaborate on "unwelcoming even"? I'm intrigued.

[elfin parrot]

But hey, once Asobo annouces their next title, it might stir up some discussions - you said it yourself

[elfin parrot]

I meant the several clips I had to scroll through to finally find some human interaction through text

Still can't wrap my head around it. A few months before such clips were rare occurence in the subreddit

Now it feels almost like spam from some clip-bot

[harsh egret]

Oh, so that's what you mean. Yeah well, when most passionate members of community subside, then mostly those who want some sort of promotion with videos take over. Of course this is a gross generalization on my part, but that's a running theme elsewhere: when most text-based posts go in hibernation, recordings and such take over, it goes back and forth.

[proud berry]

At this point because of the influx of PS+ players "Do I need to play Innocence first?" has become a meme

I want to see a meme where somebody has Emilie say "It's over Hugo, I know you're the Child of Embers!"
"How could you know that?"
"Because I played Innocence first!"

[full flower]

I got it

The link : https://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/a-plague-tale-requiem-soundtrack-ps5-switch-windows-xbox-series-xs-gamerip-2022/453.mp3

[sudden bridge]

is there any place to download Requiem and Innocence soundtrack as FLAC for free?

[solar perch]

Do you know what number the ps5 menu song is

[solar perch]

You can but I just paid for mine☺️

[full flower]

It's 453. I sent the link

[full flower]

Yup

There is one, it's actually Spotify bot on Telegram, you can download 128kb, 320kb, and flac files

I'll send the link if you want

[full flower]

Oh I forgot to say. If you're just looking for Requiem and Innocence FLACs, I also know a site

[solar perch]

Or just buy it from Olivier
That's just my opinion

It's got FLAC too

[full flower]

Well that's an obvious choice, but he asked for free way

[solar perch]

A lot of things aren't free in life

The unreleased stuff I get.But the official stuff is right there...

[full flower]

Frankly, it doesn't bother me so yeah

[solar perch]

For me piracy is always a service issue. Which this is not cus the music is right there for purchase. If not a personal money issue.

[full flower]

Well I think I have to split it out a little. In my country copyright is not a thing

But of course everyone has their own red lines which I respect them

[urban lodge]

Thing is, the music is also on youtube for anyone to listen too for free

[solar perch]

Yeah but they want FLAC. Which is easily purchased from Bandcamp

[urban lodge]

What is FLAC?

[solar perch]

High quality audio format

[urban lodge]

Hm

[solar perch]

The Requiem ost is literally 10quid

[urban lodge]

Personally I don't think it's worth it to pay for higher audio quality when you can listen for free for a decently good quality already

But that's just me

[full flower]

Free Lossless Audio Codec. Basically the original composed audio

[solar perch]

And aren't they that person that went around begging for a copy of Requiem?

[urban lodge]

Problem is, you are forgetting that depending on were you live, you also have to pay extra for the shipment and are risking that it stays stuck in the border and/or gets damaged halfway

[solar perch]

I mean for me music and games is a luxury. And the requiem ost is digital so no shipping there for a flac and mp3 album

If I can't afford a music or game I just wait

[urban lodge]

That I can agree with

In my country, buying a brand new AA or AAA game costs around 10% of minimum wage

It's surely one of the most expensive hobbies out there

[solar perch]

Gaming is

I just wait till things are cheaper

[urban lodge]

I've wasted so much money with gaming so I have stopped buying things

I'll just finish the games I already have until it's all over

[sudden bridge]

yeah sure

[sudden bridge]

broke :(

is it like a bad thing that I am requesting for these FLAC music or should I pay for them?

I feel like these should be part of a game when you buy them

[urban lodge]

Well, in one hand, you paid for the game which already has the soundtrack in itself

Plus the soundtrack is on youtube/spotify for free for everyone

On the other hand, this is the higher quality one

[full flower]

https://t.me/spotify_bot_updates

It's actually the parent channel so just head to the description and there's the bot

I also have to point it that this bot uses Deezer's database, but don't worry Deezer and Spotify are very alike in terms of database storing

[sudden bridge]

does this require Spotify?

[full flower]

Nope

But you can connect it to your profile and download your saved playlists

[woeful mango]

It's ones of the best digital audio formats you can have for a HiFi sound

[woeful mango]

The games doesn't seems to use FLAC audio, maybe MP3 or AAC

Or wma, ogg...

If I remember well it's ogg 🤔

In all cases these are not really the music of the game, the music of the game is slightly different to adapt to the gameplay (dynamic music), such as allowing transitions or making loops without it being noticed.

[urban lodge]

I know but in my opinion things like this are extremely unnecessary, you can literally listen to the music for free

[woeful mango]

I don't have any problem with downloading music for free, but if it were me I wouldn't ask on a server run by the game publisher.

Listening is not owning... It's a matter of rights, it allows composers to be paid directly.

I will never judge anyone for downloading music or games because I do it too, but if I can do it without the expense being totally unreasonable then I buy it, and if one day I finally can afford it well I will pay to have it officially. This is just and only my point of view anyway

[scarlet veldt]

I bought the 2 Plague Tale games for a friend for Christmas
He played Innocence alone, but i watched him through Requiem

Technically, I paid for him to cry and also myself for the second time

[urban lodge]

That's nice of you

I always wanted my friends to play Innocence but don't really care about story games

One friend of mine played the first chapter of Innocence but I don't think he ever came back to the game afterwards

[scarlet veldt]

They dont know what they miss...

[urban lodge]

They prefer gameplay focused games more

Which I can't blame them for

The biggest reason why I'm in this server really is to have other people to talk about APT, since I won't bother doing it with my friends

[ornate plume]

that's why I'm here. it feels good to talk about the game and be with people who feel the same way

[urban lodge]

Most are here for that reason I supose

Plus, this is the only server where low activity is good

Big servers are so unpleasent to talk in

[solar perch]

I have one person I manged to get to play Innocence

[sudden bridge]

me too, I watched my friend play the first 3 chapters of Innocence

[solar perch]

My friend is currently on chapter 7 which is good progress

[urban lodge]

Now I remembered, a friend of mine watched me play the first 6-7 chapters of Innocence when I bought the game [I had already seen the game before tho], but I noticed halfway that he was getting kinda bored so I decided to stop for the day and went play with him something else

[sudden bridge]

I'll probably get him to like chapter 5 or 6 today

[sudden bridge]

so true

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, I take back what I said about Reddit two days ago - the clips I screenshoted were mostly from a bot let loose. Don't even know what caused it or what fixed it.
Nevertheless, it's okay now. Blessed be Basilius.

[urban lodge]

Blessed be the child. Blessed be the mother...

[urban lodge]

Now I think of it, wasn't Basilious's mother an alchemist?

I mean, assuming the woman in Innocence's fresco is Basilious mother, she could very well be part of the Order...
Or maybe I'm going to far with this one...

[elfin parrot]

If I recall correctly, Basilius is treated as an orphan. If we wish to solve the issue with Innocence-Requiem inconsistency, we can say that the woman treating him in the fresco is the Order alchemist important enough to be immortalized in the picture.

[urban lodge]

Hum

Well, it's a big coincidence then that she was pregnant

[elfin parrot]

But as the game doesn't give us any answer, it could theoretically be his mother too.

[elfin parrot]

She was?

[urban lodge]

In the fresco, yes

[solar perch]

I just kinda view the fresco as symbolic

[urban lodge]

Amicia and Lucas even aknowledge it

[elfin parrot]

I don't remember that, sorry 😅

[urban lodge]

That's fine

[elfin parrot]

Did they have any explanation or they just stated it?

[urban lodge]

They just stated it I think

So, I don't exactly remember the exact moment where this fresco can be found, but I was scrolling by a video and I just now realised that the box where Amicia and Lucas got the elixir from in Innocence had a Phoenix on it

[elfin parrot]

Thanks for posting!
I gotta replay Innocence some day to refresh my memory

It's weird that the writters for Requiem did not touch this lady again.

Especially after they talked about her in Innocence

In the relation with Justinian Plague

[urban lodge]

Imagine that this lady was the person in Chateau d'Ombrage's tomb

[proud berry]

The Order had a weird reverence of Basilius

On the one hand they treated him like an experiment, but on the other they treated like a demigod

They made the Frescos on La Cuna depicting him as such

[elfin parrot]

And thus, a new theory was born

[proud berry]

I love the twists in the games and how good they are at throwing you off and being unsettling
What I mean is like when you arrive at La Cuna

Despite everyone being super nice and it being absolutely beautiful
You can't help but feel really unsettled and untrustworthy of everything, because in Hugo's dream the Island was devoid of civilization
But now there's a whole society there

Even though it's not really a twist, I love little moments like that

[sudden bridge]

I felt the exact same, La Cuna felt completely opposite in tone to the other places we have been in the game but when we met Milo, that's when I knew this place also had a dark side

[elfin parrot]

I still wonder where do people get the information that carriers appear once every +- 800 years.

And why they think Basilius is the very first carrier of Prima Macula... It is even said in both games that Macula is primordial force, a part of humanity since the beginning. And yet Basilius is somehow the first carrier according to them.

... I have a feeling that there's some lore video on youtube that spreads this stuff and as people watch it, they repeat it without thinking.

[urban lodge]

If we go by historical acuraccy, since the Justinian Plague was the first big plague in history, it wouldn't be too far off to assume that Basilius was the first, or at the very least one of the first Carriers

Now, about the 800 years gap, while I don't necessarily believe it, I think it makes sense to have a big gap between Carriers.

If Carriers appeared with a smaller interval, humanity wouldn't last much...Just imagine a Hugo type child causing that much caos every couple years/decades...

Finally, once again, that big gap between Carriers matches the historical accuracy of real plagues

[elfin parrot]

Nah, you are talking only about those rare carriers that endured most of the thresholds. And the Order wouldn't even be established in the first place if carriers appeared only once every 800 years. Lucas has a wide knowledge about Macula in Innocence - he definitely did not get his information only from Basilius himself, but from several other carriers who were documented to die while passing first thresholds.

I know you know, your knowledge on the matter is no lesser than mine

[urban lodge]

We have no way of knowing if the Order was created solely for the purpose of studying Carriers...
They could have very well been created as a general alchemist group/society, that later on focused on studying Carriers/Macula as a final goal.

Also, most of Lucas's knowledge comes from Laurentious and the Sanguinis Itinera, two things heavily related with the Order

[urban lodge]

What's that suposed to mean

[elfin parrot]

The making-of book is canon unless proven otherwise by the games in my opinion. And the book states that the Order was established to protect people from the Prima Macula and was given money for that purpose. My interpretation is that the Order masked their true activity to not create panic among common folk, and thus became known as the group of alchemists instead.

[elfin parrot]

It means that I don't want to pontificate you since you have the same knowledge on the matter as me. And you proved it many times before

[urban lodge]

Well, I and everyone else who doesn't have access to the book has no way of knowing that....

Also, let us not forget the inconsistencies that the book holds aswell, like all the rats and Nebula magically disapearing after Hugo is gone and so forth...

[elfin parrot]

Oh, I did not realise that, apologies.
Yes, the book only acts as a support to the games. When games don't have an answer, we can look in the book to find one.

[urban lodge]

That's fine

It's just slightly inconvinient that important lore info is scatared across books that most players don't have

[elfin parrot]

Maybe the TV series creators will use some of the information from the books.
Speaking of which, I wonder what's taking them so long. A long time has passed since its first announcement and as of now there seems to be little to no progress.

[proud berry]

Whilst I don't want the Macula explained
Getting concrete information about the Order and the Carriers would be amazing
A list of the thresholds and what they do etc

What happens to a carrier like Basil, who wasn't killed and gave in etc

I'd love for that to be covered in a game

[urban lodge]

I highly doubt the show will give any info we don't know already, considering gaming adaptations are usually just the game turned into a live action version of itself

[elfin parrot]

I believe it will, because now that Requiem is released, the screenplay writers can take it in consideration too and create Innocence TV series with less inconsistencies than what we have now. You know, polish the story even more and maybe add a few more references to previous carriers.

In other words - the overall story of the TV series could potentially be more consistent than what we have now.

[urban lodge]

I suport the consistency, however I don't feel the show should insert information that isn't mencioned in the games

I mean, if in Innocence the only previous Carrier mentioned is Bas, I don't think the show should talk about any other

[sudden bridge]

it's really worrying that we haven't heard anything at all about it other than it's in the works

it's been quite some time since it was announced

[elfin parrot]

Yeah, it's getting weird. I hope they won't cancel it completely.

It wouldn't be the first time though, even giants such as Magic: the Gathering had a contract with Netflix and famous names working on an animated series years ago and then went silent.

[proud berry]

We got an update recently actually

A month or so ago

It's still planned but there's some scheduling and funding stuff they're clearing up before production starts

[elfin parrot]

Source? You got some link?

[proud berry]

I just searched for it and I can't find it

Maybe the Macula sent me a vision of it to deceive me

[urban lodge]

They haven't started production yet? Two years after being announced? Yeah, this is going to takes ages before actually coming out (if it even does)

[elfin parrot]

Don't give us false hopes man 😅

[solar perch]

All I've seen is the director retweeting recent apt tweets and that he's working on it. And that once annoncement about Olivier

I am guessing it will air in 2025

[scarlet veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/morpheus-believe-neo-beginning-to-believe-gif-5399492

[scarlet beacon]

Wait what announcement about Olivier? Is he doing the music for the show or something?

[solar perch]

Yh

[scarlet beacon]

Oh that's awesome! Might have to give the show a watch if it does come out then

[quasi owl]

I imagine a place in Heaven, where Hugo, Beatrice, Robert, Rodric, Arthur and Arnaud(maybe) are sitting together and admiring Amicia from up above

[woeful mango]

A plague tale / reality

[scarlet veldt]

[hard star]

A Plague Tale / Reality part 2

[woeful mango]

A plague tale / Reality part 3

[umbral bay]

where you at

[proud berry]

A Plague Tale / Reality
Arnaud Edition

This medieval tower in the UK looks mighty suspicious

[scarlet veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-cat-sad-cat-me-when-i-dont-get-orod-tickets-gif-13399313231964052110

[proud berry]

I was considering doing this with somebody else but I thought it would be too sad 😭

[quasi owl]

Rodric or Hugo?

[proud berry]

Hugo

[full flower]

Oh my gosh. How could have they built that thing with those details in that time?

[sudden bridge]

exceptionally impressive

[woeful mango]

They took 120 years for building it (started at 1211)

[elfin parrot]

Hello there, I will be creating another channel in general-spoilers for the newcomers who just finished Requiem and are willing to learn more about the franchise. So far I have these suggestions:

1. Playing APT: Innocence
2. Joining official subreddit
3. Checking all three books
4. KrazyDragonYT's theories
5. Composer's playthrough
6. Charlotte's playthrough
   Anything else you feel like it's missing? Throw in any of your ideas

[cerulean lintel]

there are three books? Tenebris and the Art book. what is the third?

[elfin parrot]

The Heart of A Plague Tale, or so called "making of book". There's less artwork and more text explaining both games

It's the only book translated into english. The other two are only in french

[sudden bridge]

I feel like there should be a channel where all memes should be posted and a channel for speculation regarding APT 3

[elfin parrot]

Speculations could be theoretically posted in https://discord.com/channels/309974409135915009/1176644849831780413 . And meme channel can be created by someone else - I am not fun at parties... 😅

[cerulean lintel]

#1176644849831780413

[elfin parrot]

But meme channel is nice idea too

[sudden bridge]

I'll gather some of the memes

and make one

[scarlet veldt]

This one

[sudden bridge]

I can't seem to find the .FLAC files to download, only .mp3

[umbral bay]

What does third edition mean

[scarlet veldt]

Probably the publisher or something like that

[solar perch]

It's the publisher

[full flower]

Did you check the download quality setting?

[sudden bridge]

can't find it

[woeful mango]

Just click "Download this song" maybe you have the choice of the quality

[sudden bridge]

I tried

it just downloads as a .mp3

I have a question, does Amicia have any family apart from her parents or Hugo? is it mentioned anywhere?

[elfin parrot]

It is not mentioned in the games nor in the book. So if it's necessary to add De Rune relatives in potential APT3, the simple fact of their existence wouldn't contradict anything already established

[sudden bridge]

that's nice to hear

so maybe there's a chance she's not alone at all

[elfin parrot]

However it's unlikely. It is more probable that Melie returns rather than Amicia suddenly bumping into her relative she doesn't know anything about

[sudden bridge]

that's also a possibility

did we ever get a constuctive reason why Melie did not return for Requiem?

[elfin parrot]

We don't know official reason as of now. Maybe in potential APT3, because Melie was quite favourite among the developers and some of them were kinda sad she did not return at least as a cameo in Requiem

[sudden bridge]

I wonder if Charlotte knows anything about it because Melie's VA and Charlotte are pretty good friends in real life

[elfin parrot]

Even if so, they have a clause of silence as a part of the contract with Asobo. They can't let the information slip before Asobo officially announces it.

[sudden bridge]

that's what I was thinking about too

maybe she knows but can't tell it to anyone

[elfin parrot]

Scrolling Facebook on my break and this suddenly pops up ⬇️

[harsh egret]

Hm, just gimme a sec...

And done.

[elfin parrot]

100% or 0%? 😅

[harsh egret]

What's your guess? 😏

[elfin parrot]

100 I suppose

[harsh egret]

Yep, gotta give support

[solar perch]

We can just assume that the writers decided that it wouldn't make sense for Melie to return. She clearly said she isn't a big fan of these crazy macula hijinks. And she'd have to travel south to bump in to the De Runes again

[scarlet veldt]

0, no way he ||still can be alive||

• it would ruin the emotionnal impact of Requiem imo

[harsh egret]

Ugh, not this again...

[ornate plume]

I should say 100% because it makes me feel peaceful. I hope there is still hope.

[scarlet veldt]

Hope²

[solar perch]

He died on his terms at least

[ornate plume]

I finished both games in two days, it felt a bit heavy and the effect is still going on.

[ornate plume]

I just want to believe that

[harsh egret]

Are you new here?

[urban lodge]

Coming back alive, 25-50%

Being present in the story in any way, 75%

[harsh egret]

That's exactly what my mind is telling me. Heart? You bet it's 100.

[elfin parrot]

Interesting question ⬇️
What would you do if APT3 continued right after the destruction of Rascasse and learn that Amicia died by the arrow, so instead you now control Lucas/Arnaud on the quest to save Hugo, who still did not give up to the Macula yet?

[urban lodge]

I would uninstall the game

Jk

[harsh egret]

Same

[elfin parrot]

I mean you wouldn't be the only one. The fanbase would just disappear suddenly 😅

[urban lodge]

No, actually, I would probably do it

That outcome is so bad in so many ways...

[harsh egret]

Also, isn't Arnaud, like, dead-dead? So it'd only be Lucas anyway.

[scarlet veldt]

I dont see why Hugo would not still give himself to the Macula

[elfin parrot]

Maybe it was Amicia's dying thoughts while drowning in the sea all along... 😅

[harsh egret]

LOOOL😂

[urban lodge]

You guys realise that Amicia dying by the arrows means the Count would still be alive and he would take over Hugo again

[elfin parrot]

Very much

[ornate plume]

I mean, I've been here for 10 days and I've attended a few talks recently.

[urban lodge]

A Plague Tale: Despair

[elfin parrot]

But we still have Arnaud

[harsh egret]

Good, then strap-in, you've got a lot to see in the spoiler-forum and YT.

[scarlet veldt]

Btw do we know how Arnaud came back on the beach after Amicia got hit ?

Because swimming several miles while carrying her + the shield + the sword after being probably tortured gets all my admiration

[urban lodge]

I think he jumped to the sea right after pushing her off the ship

[elfin parrot]

Maybe I am remembering it wrong but don't we see a piece of land during the combat on the ship?

But even so he had to swim quite some time and some distance

[harsh egret]

I think that, whenever you see "a piece of land" on the horizon while you're on a ship, it generally means that land is at least a mile+ away

[elfin parrot]

Still better than being in the middle of nowhere I guess

[urban lodge]

Arnaud's endurance is probably very big

[scarlet veldt]

• after all that he still fought with the Count

[urban lodge]

A strong contender to Nicholas place

[elfin parrot]

Man, Lord Nicholas was a beast. Vitalis' fight was too fantastical for my liking, but Nicholas was a real boss fight.

[scarlet veldt]

The first time I finished Innocence, the Vitalis fight came a bit out of nowhere but I learned to like it

[urban lodge]

Nicholas is easily the second strongest character in the whole franchise, loosing only to Vitalis. He was borderline superhuman...

[scarlet veldt]

My guy Nicholas still fighting unphased while on fire

based

[urban lodge]

After being crushed by boulders....

Bro had that Dark Souls maxed build

[scarlet veldt]

[elfin parrot]

He was most probably bitten by the rats too. It did not stop him though

[scarlet veldt]

I need to do a meme about it

[elfin parrot]

... Whereas the Beast in Requiem, the best soldier Count Victor had, can be beaten in 5 seconds tops. He is exactly the same as any other heavily armed guard in Requiem, but with different armor color

[elfin parrot]

Take an image of chad and plant Nicholas' helmet on it

[scarlet veldt]

That's a great idea, I'll do that when I get home, I dont think i can do that on my phone

#1198945984269516850 message

Did this one, I'll make the chad one soon

[urban lodge]

I can do it for you if you want to

[scarlet veldt]

If you want

[urban lodge]

I´ll try my best

[urban lodge]

😭

[scarlet veldt]

[urban lodge]

Giga Nicholas

I could probably do better but it would take longer

[solar perch]

What did I just come into

And I see THIS

[elfin parrot]

Anything new about easter eggs in Requiem? I remember cen0ri finding a Batman symbol in the data, but no one was able to find it in game?

Do you know of any neat details or references that may have slipped under my nose?

[harsh egret]

Inception Easter Egg? Remember that?

[elfin parrot]

Inception? Wasn't that in Innocence?

[harsh egret]

Oh sorry, that was in Innocence

Beat me to it

[elfin parrot]

I know Innocence has quite a few easter eggs, but so far Requiem seems devoid of them

[urban lodge]

The most notorious easter egg is the Lord of the Rings reference in Innocence, but you probably already knew that one

[full flower]

The first time you start the bot, something like this should show up. Click on the Settings and then click on the Download Quality. There are three options: 128kb, 320kb, and FLAC

[elfin parrot]

Does anyone know how exactly Amicia got her legendary wound/scar on her nose? I can't remember now

It was in the beginning of Innocence, but I don't know what exactly caused it

[sudden bridge]

thanks mate, it works now

[sudden bridge]

I'm sure Arnaud would be a perfect fit as well

[urban lodge]

I pulled up a yt video to check it out by the cutscenes.

If we are thinking about the same wound, it apears that she got it by the time she and Hugo jumped on the river after escaping the De Rune lands.

She already has that wound before reaching the town's stake place, so I excluded the Malford's fight out of the question

[elfin parrot]

Thank you! I really couldn't remember where did she wound herself on the face.

It makes sense that the rocks would hurt her

[full flower]

Anytime

[mossy folio]

Dafuq

[urban lodge]

It's understandable, honestly. I can't blame them...

"but they* don't really care about story games"

I forgot to put "they" on the sentence

[ornate plume]

In requiem, at the end, before we enter the fog with lucas, we have the crossbow, but after we jump, we don't have it, and then when we meet lucas again, how does he have it?

[proud berry]

Lucas has a habit of stealing the crossbow
He does it in Chapter 12 as well!

[ornate plume]

thanks for your answer

[cerulean lintel]

Amicia is so clumpsy, but luckily Lucas is there to pick up the things she has lost. 😄

[elfin parrot]

Amicia was most probably unconscious for a while so Lucas the gentleman helped her with the crossbow

So that she wouldn't lay on it

[scarlet veldt]

But why did he left with the crossbow

[full flower]

For me the weirdest one ia when Hugo's climax begins like he's arrested, Amicia's f up, how in the world he got the crossbow

But it's all fine since it's a video game

[scarlet veldt]

And you need a reason for him to have the Crossbow at the end for... You know...

[full flower]

Yeah
Game LOGIC

[scarlet veldt]

• I didn't noticed it when I played the game for the first time so that's okay

[full flower]

Me neither, I was all fully shocked and grieving at the time

But hey 2nd playthrough is for these things isn't it

[scarlet veldt]

The third one too right ?

And the... 4th one...
Also the 5th...

[ornate plume]

Probably

[woeful imp]

Ummm 4 and 5th? I can’t even play it again my heart can’t take it😭

[proud berry]

Me having just completed my Twelfth a few days ago

[woeful imp]

I refuse to believe it…am I just weak or are you a psychopath?

[proud berry]

As much as I'd hope I'm not a psycho, it seems like the latter xD

It gets sadder on following playthroughs
You can really see how it was set up
And all the moments at the start where Hugo says things like "We'll be healed on the Island Amicia"
Really hit hard knowing what happens

[woeful imp]

Stopp your gonna make me cryyy

For the second time todayyy

Humpf

This game completely broke me

My own profile makes me upset😭

[sudden bridge]

I definitely realised that when I was watching Charlotte's playthrough, every time Amicia says we'll be alright I can't help but think about how it all ends

[full flower]

It's funny that every she said it's gonna be alright it got worse

[scarlet veldt]

I think it's possible to have PTSD from Requiem

[sudden bridge]

hundreds, if not thousands already have it

[proud berry]

If you really want to increase the sadness I'd recommend watching these
I mean the whole series of videos is great but there's some things Olivier points out that makes these chapters hit so much harder
https://youtu.be/9ctu6sRPRTM?si=56iaEXHEOnKUdK3a

https://youtu.be/N8QnSE42mNk?si=MdgPJDUCAelRQFXV

[proud berry]

It broke all of us 😞
But I think crying is maybe a good thing
Arnaud's death always makes me tear up

[full flower]

Previous gen: having PTSD after attending in a hell war and killing humans and watching their troops's heads blow up in front of their eyes

This gen: having PTSD after completing a sad video game

[urban lodge]

Bit extreme to say one has PTSD due to a video game

[full flower]

Not particularly PTSD, but being sad and having thoughts in your mind even after a month. It's not good either

[sudden bridge]

a month? hell I think I know some people who have played the game 12 times and it still hits hard

[urban lodge]

I know, but I've seen people along the way who were having a hard time living their real lives after finishing the game

Not trying to be that guy, I know full well people can be emotioned or even afected by a game, but I still think it's important to be able to distinguish games from reality and not let it go to such extremes

[solar perch]

I want to replay Requiem... I should do but I have to hurt myself in hmthe process

[elfin parrot]

You have most probably seen it, but here is Hugo created by Dreamworks ⬇️

[full flower]

True, but if we want to put it in the psychology path. These type of games are played by teenagers, around 13 to 18. Not all that range but mostly. I suppose it's because of emotions are developing and still they're not fully we can say OKAY, so that's why we have the lack of disgust what just we've seen or played and get over with it. Not right way but in a short time. And my reason for this is that I've seen adults being in sad and mentally shock situations but they got over with that.
That's my "the way of how it processes" opinion

[urban lodge]

I fully understand. And as I said before, being sad isn't even the problem.
The issue is not functioning properly in real life due to something that didn't even happen. And I've seen adults fall apart for this.
When I first joined this server, there was a woman who got mad at me for this opinion, saying that after playing the game she had trouble doing her work and even simple day to day tasks. That's concerning if you ask me.

[full flower]

That's just sad to see people like this
However I'm not emotionless, actually my trigger is the music.
e.g if a scene gives 20% sadness, a song by its side makes it 120%

[solar perch]

A good ost can make me sad

[full flower]

Sometimes I find it absurd even but hey that's just who I am

[urban lodge]

Music is probably the only type of art that can raise any emotions in me

[harsh egret]

This looks like AI generated image tho.

[sudden bridge]

it is

[full flower]

When I was a child I used to think you shouldn't listen to sad songs, they're bad just listen to happy songs and those pieces of craps but now I'm grown up I see even listening to sad songs is good for you. Sometimes you NEED to express and bring out those sealed emotions and if you don't by the time they'll become a rage in you

[urban lodge]

Partially agree.
Just be careful because sometimes sadness can be addictive.

[full flower]

I know. I just let the my brain does its thing. It've become handy for me

[elfin parrot]

My brother is 15 and I outright told him to not try APT series yet. Not only because there are some brutal scenes which leave most people breathless and heart-racing, but also because he will surely enjoy the first playthrough when he is slightly more mature and can think about things in more depth.

[full flower]

You did him a worth favor

[elfin parrot]

In that regard I think that this game cannot be properly enjoyed by 13-year-olds as you have said. The minimum I think is 16, and you gotta be above average peer intelligence to properly enjoy the story.

[full flower]

That's why it has M rated

[solar perch]

Cus of the gore and language

[elfin parrot]

Rating does not take the story itself in account

Children of the age of 12, 13, 14... can enjoy shooter games which are rated mature, but the story of APT cannot be truly enjoyed by players of this age.

[full flower]

Auh duty calls
I'll come and talk about this later

[solar perch]

I mean my friend who's 13 enjoyed it and had some nice discussions about the game...

[ornate plume]

I'm 12

[elfin parrot]

Damn, how did you manage to enjoy it?

Especially Requiem sometimes shows very emotionally complex scenes that can be used in psychology class

[urban lodge]

I mean, I was 14 when Innocence dropped and still managed to enjoy it

[umbral bay]

dang I feel you

[solar perch]

It's not the most complex thing ever

[elfin parrot]

Good for you, Innocence is at the base level a fight between good and evil, whereas Requiem is much more complex than that.

[ornate plume]

I'm kidding, I wanted to add some excitement.

[umbral bay]

hello guys what are yall talking about

[urban lodge]

Just remember that some kids get more mature very early on, while others take more time

I know people my age who are complete empty heads with no sense of decency and maturity

[elfin parrot]

What should be the lowest and average age of players playing APT series to enjoy it properly

[solar perch]

Anyone who likes story games

[umbral bay]

14 I think

because I think you understand more as you are at that age

[elfin parrot]

True, but still the family stuff and deep dive into emotions is, at least in my opinion, a heavy thing for anyone under 15

[umbral bay]

true

but its 14 or 15 better to start to play it

but hey why is it peg 18?

[urban lodge]

Blood, violence and gore

• "scary" ambience

[solar perch]

I think a rock to the head is pretty brutal

[umbral bay]

yeah

guya btw is dead space a good gam?

[solar perch]

Amicia casually giving people brain damage

[elfin parrot]

The gallows in the plaza in Innocence were brutal.

[urban lodge]

Unfortunally, kids these days (and parents by extension) don't care about age ratings...

They will play all sorts of innapropriate games and parents will allow it

And I don't exclude myself from this, tho I feel there's a clear diference between people my age and kids who came up afterwards

[solar perch]

I think all if not most played 18+ games as kids. All I wanted to play as a kid as Assassin's Creed

And my sis bought them for me cus she liked those games too

[urban lodge]

I personally feel the problem is more with the parents themselves. It's up to the parents to see what it best for their kids and explain it them

[elfin parrot]

When I was around 13, I played the Resistance games in the PS3 era. It's a first person shooter set in alternate history where you control a "WW2" soldier fighting against people mutated with alien virus. I enjoyed the shooting very much, but when I replayed the games as an adult, I was finally able to fully comprehend the story and disturbing details it showed, especially that I am mowing down once normal people mercilessly.

I think the same goes with APT series. You can enjoy them as games if you are very young, but you will be able to grasp the full extent of the story and the consequences of your actions at later age.

[solar perch]

I mean my parents had no problem taking me to cinema or play adult games. I think I was about maybe 11 when I started playing stuff like AssCreed, new Tomb Raider. Wasn't a problem for me. Or watch adult shows like Torchwood or House

[ornate plume]

Think of the freedom that gta 6 gives

[urban lodge]

My mom was always super chill with it. I even used to watch her play Doom on ps1. She still games a bit today.

My dad, while not really liking games, never really stood in the way or forbid me of playing them

[solar perch]

I started playing story based games and "mature" anime when I was about 11 which is when my care for story and plot came in

[dark seal]

I am so very against ai generated images

[wanton pike]

Same

[full flower]

Here I'm back
Well if you want my opinion players less than 16 shouldn't play shooter games or if they want they have to be careful not because of the violence but the competition they make for their selves. To be in the 12 or 13 age and playing shooter games and just shout and getting angry because someone killed you and you couldn't take it back. Taking a friendly match into "It's winning or dying" match, it's not good at all. By the time he just gets angrier and angrier and more impatient until that self-grown up anger becomes a disorder

[harsh egret]

And for good reason.

[full flower]

Play games, but play them nicely

[elfin parrot]

I get it, but it's a future. Some games are already using entire landscapes generated by computer. It's a very handy tool, but generated images should not be presented as result in themselves without any added value from the creator.

I tried generating images just for fun, but I couldn't get a satisfying result from free generators. However there are some who are able to generate really nice pictures, and I like the potential it has.

[dark seal]

I’d be fine with it if the images it’s scraping from weren’t stolen by artists

[elfin parrot]

It's pointless to fight against it. As long as the generated image is used as a tool to be further experimented upon to create for example new character designs, I am all for it

[dark seal]

As someone who’s trying to get into art school; there have been multiple occasions were I’ve sat down and questioned if everything I’ve worked hard for was even worth it

I just wish there were laws about it…I wish that the programmers asked the artists before taking their work, I wish the artists were credited or paid.

[wanton pike]

The problem is that it should be used as a tool, but people aren't using it as such

They're using it to generate subpar images in a poor attempt to pass it off as "art"

And in the process of doing so, they're further feeding the machine and causing actual (good) art to be stolen & taken advantage of, against the original artist's wishes

That's part of why I haven't bought into the Palworld hype, seeing as the developer not only supports GenAI, but made another game entirely based on the concept of AI "art"

[elfin parrot]

Then the issue lies in wannabe artists who use the generated image without any added value.

If the artist uses image generator as a tool to combine his/her artistic/graphical talents and generation, I see nothing wrong with that

[harsh egret]

The issue lies in the fact we are living in a late-stage capitalism. Money-profit-money-profit-money-profit is the order of the day, a holy command, and has been for many decades now, though it's increasingly getting worse.

AI has the potential to be a great and massively useful tool for artists, almost on par with Photoshop-type programs when they were just entering the picture and photographs almost 200 years ago. However, the truth of the matter is, in vast majority of cases, AI most likely won't be used as a for-help tool for artists, but as a means of supplanting them completely, and it will be most felt in commercial industries.

Those who made these AI programs? Going by the logic of capitalism, in time, just when they advance enough, they will monetize them and make them available for the most rich and powerful, which will in turn rid them of the need to hire actual artists when they can get almost comparable results cheaply and a lot faster.

Strict regulations would help, but only for a time. The very fabric of society and economics is problem, it encourages such behavior in the first place.

[urban lodge]

I don't have any problem with AI generated art as long as the people who tell AI to make it don't take credit for it

[wanton pike]

My problem is the same as what LzrM02 said. If this keeps going at the rate it's going, artists will be out of a career entirely in favor of a cheaper, faster way to make "art"

There's no humanity in AI "art". There's no soul, no life, no purpose. Often times in art, you can find meaning in the picture. Not the case with AI. It's just a garbled mess thrown together by a machine

[elfin parrot]

I get your scepticism. I am learning to become a criminal law judge, but that's still at least 8 years away from now. But as of now, the state is experimenting with computer programms that could potentially replace most judges entirely. Given the quick advancement of technologies, I am afraid for my future as you are... If I had more insight, I would have followed the path to become dentist instead, but hey, you need to work with what you have right now and not what could potentially be.

[wanton pike]

the state is experimenting with computer programs that could potentially replace most judges

Bet they'll change their tune real quick when the machine bugs out and gives a false verdict that puts an innocent person away for life

[elfin parrot]

Nah, there will be some inspectors who would have to check every verdict, but the judges themselves would become redundant

[urban lodge]

Judges still have a humanity aspect to factor him in some legal processes.
No AI will be able to replace that...

There are cases were the judge is the one making the decision

[elfin parrot]

In civil law, especially family cases, yes, but criminal law in my country is strictly formal with very little human factor.

Just the guilt and sentence according to the crime. Nothing more

[urban lodge]

Our world is a few steps away from being Detroit Become Human

[harsh egret]

The thing is, NO ONE is irreplaceable.

LITERALLY no one. It's just that unfortunately, we artists are first to appear on the frontlines, among first to be attacked by this AI wave.

But soon enough, doctors, (surgeons first and foremost), legal-workers, cooks, ALL will be met by their AI-automated equivalents.

Now to be fair, it is my conviction that the vast (and I do mean VAST) majority of "jobs" ought to be eliminated completely by automation, but in this monetary, strictly for-profit global environment? Hell no, everyone would be mired in poverty because of no viable source of income.

[elfin parrot]

To add a snippet, we are already heading towards economical doom. All these at first funny pictures are harsh reality, that will only become worse without some global reform ⬇️

[harsh egret]

I've seen this a day or two ago. The problem is, even though deep down I do, I literally can't take it seriously with the "crying wojak" picture on the bottom, it just cracks me up 😅

[urban lodge]

Gotta disagree on this one. Machines and AI may cut a lot of people out of the equation, but there are still (and will be for many years) hundreds of professions in which the human presence will always be necessary...

Construction workers, plumbers, electritians, mechanics, farmers, teachers, fisherman, hunters, policeman, fireman, lawyers, and MANY more professions cannot be executed by machines, at least not in its entirity. And getting aid from tecnology doesn't necessarily equal being completely replaced by it.

Finnally, that last paragraph of yours is what gives me hope. Things will reach a point where it's unsustainable for the human society to keep it self going, forcing things to change for better.

[spring flare]

i'm not trying to shit on your conversation, but i don't think this is the best channel to discuss this

maybe #🗣️general-chat would be better

[urban lodge]

Don't worry, it's already a habit of ours to talk about completely unrelated topics in here

[solar perch]

This is so true

[elfin parrot]

I am sorry I turned the conversation to this direction, I didn't think an AI image I posted would stir such lengthy discussion

[harsh egret]

Trust me, every single one of those you mention can and likely will be replaced if AI gets advanced enough (which is well within actual possibility).

And in regards to judges and policemen, I view them similarly to lawyers and politicians; keepers of the status quo, but in different ways. Especially policemen and jugdes, they don't really prevent crime from happening, they merely try to clamp down on individual cases when they do happen or get out of control.

In a "better" society as you mentioned it, the need for these professions would be minimalized because, in the best possible scenario, the majority of most frequent causes of that abberant behavior we call "criminal/illegal activity" would wither away.

[urban lodge]

I am pretty sure that with milions of people loosing their jobs to machines and not having money to sustain their families, crime rate would be higher...
But let's keep it at that and go back to APT...

[elfin parrot]

Small crimes such as thefts definitely

[harsh egret]

That's what I directly implied when I said "everyone would be mired in poverty because of no viable source of income".

[woeful imp]

Anyways

Let get back to what’s important

A plagues tale

Greatest games ever?

Yes

[harsh egret]

Hell no

[woeful imp]

Huhhhh

[harsh egret]

Nothing comes close to Stronghold Crusader 🤤

[woeful imp]

Nope

A plagues tale on top

[harsh egret]

Yep 🙃

[woeful imp]

Hugo da best

Hugo da bestest boy there ever was

[harsh egret]

ever is*

[woeful imp]

Righttt

[elfin parrot]

I see what you did there

[urban lodge]

Nah, Ps2 Ratatouille game all the way

[harsh egret]

Nooo my Ratatouille

[elfin parrot]

Greatest game to date without joking? Probably The Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim. It's more than 12 years old, but still has decent fanbase, modding community and updates from the studio itself, and what's more, it has more players than studios's newest game, which was presumed to shape the future of gaming industry - Starfield.

[harsh egret]

Wait what?? Who tf said I was JOKING when I brought up Stronghold Crusader 😡!!???

[elfin parrot]

I meant the Ratatouille, but I never played it to be honest 😅

[harsh egret]

Nah kidding 😅. I agree, Skyrim is iconic title in itself.

[urban lodge]

Choosing the greatest out of the thousand of games that came out over the last 3 or 4 decades is a hard decision

If I would probably say original Doom (1993) is one of the greats, since it inspired and raised shooter games and fps genre and it's one of the most impactful games in the industry

[woeful imp]

A plagues tale is the greatest 2 games ever because of Hugo

If I hear anything different

[harsh egret]

Oh trust me you will.

Here it comes: A Plague Tale games are so good because of Hugo and Amicia together

[woeful imp]

Hugo is literally my son

[elfin parrot]

Discussion about the main characters of APT3 in 3... 2... 1...

[wanton pike]

Agree

I recently started playing again (continued an old save) to get me through a Destiny content drought, and now I don't wanna stop 😅

[harsh egret]

I could clamp down on it before it spreads if you wish...

[elfin parrot]

Sorry, don't know what "clamp down" means