Stuck and No Idea How to Proceed | ALTTP Randomizer | Page 1

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 10:29 PM

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Hey Guys I'm stuck in my game, I have 11/20 Triforce pieces and can't for the life of me find any of the other ones.

I have: bomb, fire rod, lamp, hammer, all four bottles, came of byrna, mirror, sword(1), armor(2), boots, glove(2), and red shield.

It seems like every piece that I need requires some combination of cape, cane of somaria, moon pearl, or hookshot which also seem inaccessible.

Here is my spoiler log --->
https://alttpr.gwaa.kiwi/en/h/KJG3Lk7M3N

Note: this game was actually generated on karafruit's unofficial fork of the main ALttPR project. I do apologize if this is the wrong spot to post this, but I couldn't find any other place for help.

KJG3Lk7M3N - ALttP VT Randomizer

ALttP Web VT Randomizer

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 10:41 PM

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Have you rescued the frogsmith? I haven't played inverted entrance much, but I believe you can do that

austere nest Jan 12, 2023, 10:41 PM

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there's a playthrough section of the spoiler

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:44 PM

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Its hard to tell because we don't know where you currently are, but yeah I would check some obscure locations like Frogsmith and the Locked Chest, which I often avoid until later (at least the Locked Chest because its pretty far away; Frogsmith isn't bad when not doing Entrance Randomizers).

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 10:48 PM

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yeah, looks like you can rescue the frog for the ||thieves' town small key||
then go to ||thieves' town big chest|| via ||superbunny cave lower (you may have to sneak by the lynels on dark death mountain)|| to get the ||moon pearl||

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:49 PM

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Yeah I messed up the settings. I guess its Inverted Entrance.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 10:53 PM

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I've rescued the frogsmith, and got the locked chest already. but i currently don't have any other small keys for Thieves town. i'll try and make a list of the Triforce Pieces that I do have right now

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:54 PM

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Huh does this fork also have Shopsanity enabled?

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According to this... ||a Thieves Town key is in the Red Shield Shop||

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 10:55 PM

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^ and that is located at the ||cave next to ice rod cave in the light world, which you will not need the moon pearl for||

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:57 PM

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I've been curious as to why the main fork doesn't have Shopsanity yet when so many other randomizers for different Zelda games do have Shopsanity.

timber trench Jan 12, 2023, 10:58 PM

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it's kinda unclear what shopsanity adds to the game aside from rupee farming, to be honest, so the main branch hasn't really gotten to it

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:58 PM

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I guess that makes sense.

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Plus it allows you to save rupees for potions.

timber trench Jan 12, 2023, 10:59 PM

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it's not like OoT or MM where wallet logic is a thing

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 10:59 PM

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barren burrow ^ and that is located at the ||cave next to ice rod cave in the light world, whi...

yep, I got that key already too. just checked.

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 10:59 PM

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Then you should be able to complete it.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 10:59 PM

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I think there's one more small key for thieves town? let me look it up

timber trench Jan 12, 2023, 10:59 PM

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there should be 3 with pot keys shuffled IIRC

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:00 PM

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Oh okay.

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But I didn't see another in the spoiler.

timber trench Jan 12, 2023, 11:00 PM

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and both attic and big chest should require all 3

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:03 PM

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Weird, the Playthrough doesn't list the third key.

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But I found it.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:03 PM

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strange. maybe I unlocked the big key chest door but never got the chest? I dont think so haha, but I'm going to double check

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yeah...I did not do that haha

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so it must be in that third small key for thieves town

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:10 PM

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so, I'm not sure which spectacle rock cave exit is which in the spoiler - but the third key is in spectacle rock cave

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:10 PM

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Chest Game

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I wrote it out, but then I realized I labeled off the SR entrances instead of what entrance went to Spectacle Rock

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:11 PM

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yeah I think it's the chest game entrance you want (the one in village of outcasts)

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:11 PM

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I'm trying to figure out what the correct terms are being used here, but I think that's the one.

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Top I believe is the upper cliff wall, Peak is right below the rock itself, so the third one is located at Chest Game.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:12 PM

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but I would need to go to spectacle rock cave peak, correct? that's at ganons tower which I haven't been able to get to.

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chest game takes me to the mid layer spectacle rock part. unless there's a way to jump down to the lower part that I never knew about?

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:13 PM

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Isn't Peak the one that has the hole in it and you see the item across the gap?

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:13 PM

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yeah

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:13 PM

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alright, if we got the names backward, then the other one is the turtle rock entrance

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:14 PM

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Try chest game, if that's not correct then yeah, we got the names mixed up.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:14 PM

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yeah I went to chest game, it's the section with the faeries in it

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:15 PM

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I'm confused why they're naming these those terms.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:16 PM

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yeah..doesn't exactly help haha.

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to my knowledge, I never got to the upper east death mountain in dark world or light world

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:18 PM

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Old Man Cave will take you to Super Bunny Cave Top.

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But you need the Cape.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:20 PM

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yeh. plus no moon pearl. but even with pearl i'd need cape or hookshot

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:22 PM

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beatable logic giving me a headache ahaha, this is a tricky one

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:23 PM

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Cape is in Turtle Rock, which is fully in the Light World.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:23 PM

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yeah this is really weird.

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:23 PM

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The interface isn't listing the third key as part of the Playthrough.

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:24 PM

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the playthrough uses two TT smalls to get to the big chest, but it's too late for that I assume. it's just one way through the seed. it's possible this is beatable without pearl given I'm not sure it's guaranteed accessible here

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:25 PM

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Can you get to Link's House?

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The OW entrance I mean.

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Wait, nvm, let me confirm first.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:26 PM

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yeah

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:27 PM

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Wow, Two Brothers House West, so you can't enter the Isolated Edge on its own.

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I suspect you'll just be stuck as a bunny in Turtle Rock anyway, though.

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I don't know exactly how they work out the crossed locations, but Turtle Rock is totally in the Light World.

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Oh wait, you're on Inverted...

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There's two other possible entrances that can get you up to Dark Death Mountain.

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In Inverted there's a ladder that goes straight to Ganon's Tower.

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I may have found it. ||Elder's House West takes you to Spike Cave.||

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:33 PM

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that looks like it might be the secret, yeah. assuming we have/can get the medallion to open TR

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:33 PM

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On Triforce Hunt what do you need to open Ganon's Tower itself?

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:33 PM

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looks like GT entry is set to 0 crystals

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:34 PM

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But presumably you still need TR itself.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:34 PM

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hey..now that you mention it there is supposed to be a ladder there in inverted mode. but just when I thought I made a silly oversight, I just checked and the ladder isn't there in this rom

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:34 PM

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lolwut

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Sorry about that.

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Actually...

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Ugh...

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You can use the Mirror as bunny.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:34 PM

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is the rom messed up?

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:35 PM

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Probably not.

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You can also reach the top of Dark Death Mountain from the Light World.

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Just need to find an entrance that takes you there.

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And there aren't any.

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There's only two in the Light World that I can remember.

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Tower of Hera and Paradox Cave Top.

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Paradox Cave Top is Turtle Rock main entrance.

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:39 PM

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~~ah, the reason why I haven't heard of inverted entrance much is because it's not a thing on the main site x_x~~ I wonder if the "rules" of inverted are any different when playing with entrance

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:39 PM

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Oh I never thought of that, it might be an Entrance Randomizer thing that doesn't have the ladder.

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:40 PM

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oh, scratch that, I was reading very old info

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:40 PM

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However, you can do Inverted Entrance Randomizer. I did it before.

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Anyway, I'm out of ideas at this point lol. Sorry. I tried.

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The only other consideration might be that there's a ladder in the LW side of things, but I doubt it.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:42 PM

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it's alright, I appreciate the help. if the ladder was there it would be totally do-able

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^ and no it's not there in LW either :/

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:42 PM

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And I don't see why the logic wouldn't require you to have all three keys before assuming you can get the Moon Pearl.

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:43 PM

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the logic should require that, but it's possible that moon pearl is not required to beat the seed because this is "beatable" logic

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though looking at where the triforce pieces are I think you'd have to have it

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:43 PM

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You can't open chests as a bunny, right?

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:44 PM

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no, not logically (superbunny can)

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:44 PM

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yeah that's right

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:46 PM

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one thing you could do, though it doesn't solve the mystery of what the logic is doing, is mirror to the two brothers house west entrance, which will put you at the turtle rock laser bridge. then die, and you'll revive as Link and be able to collect the items there. the top-left chest has cape

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idk how much farther that'd get you, though?

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:47 PM

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But this is inverted.

knotty hedge Jan 12, 2023, 11:47 PM

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yeah was just gonna say ^

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unless I misunderstood

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:47 PM

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gah. right. that's not the way the mirror goes

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:47 PM

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However, if you die in a dungeon you'll revive as Link again?

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:48 PM

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I always forget this even when playing lol

tepid badge Jan 12, 2023, 11:48 PM

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Maybe you need the Cane first, then.

barren burrow Jan 12, 2023, 11:48 PM

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tepid badge However, if you die in a dungeon you'll revive as Link again?

yes, but it's not considered in logic

knotty hedge Jan 13, 2023, 12:01 AM

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yeah how strange. could I have soft locked the game by not getting the big chest in Thieves town? or do you need all 3 keys to get it anyway. either way I'm not sure how common it is for these random games to be unbeatable but this is a toughie

tepid badge Jan 13, 2023, 12:04 AM

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In theory what the logic is supposed to do is this:

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Because there's two doors you can open, you should be able to get both of those keys for items down either path to be in logic.

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Because you need one key to get through already, then the Moon Pearl is not required to get all three keys in Thieves Town.

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At least that's how its supposed to work.

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Maybe there's something wrong with that fork, I can't say for sure.

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I just know that in the original LTTPR Inverted Mode, there's a ladder going from the lower part of Death Mountain to the upper part where the Tower is.

barren burrow Jan 13, 2023, 12:09 AM

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in theory, you should never get an unbeatable game; generating games with "beatable only" logic rather than "100% inventory" or "100% locations" kind of complicates matters

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there's definitely a chance this is a logic bug - maybe the thieves' town logic isn't quite right given the pottery: key pots setting? - but I'd need to look at this a lot closer to confidently say that for sure, and these are some very difficult settings we're playing with here 😅

knotty hedge Jan 13, 2023, 12:21 AM

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True enough. the only thing I can think to add is that I sometimes inadvertently use the superbunny glitches (dying in dungeons and then coming back) or the superbunny glitch when you receive an important item from somebody, forgetting that these aren't in the game logic if you have no glitches enabled. could I have somehow softlocked the game by doing that? it doesn't seem likely but it is something I thought of

timber trench Jan 13, 2023, 1:11 AM

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It's not possible to softlock by just picking up items. In certain cases (mostly DP/SW in door rando and branches derived from it), it's possible to use a key in a door you can't logically reach and cause problems that way.

knotty hedge Jan 13, 2023, 1:34 AM

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got it. thieves town is accessible via dark world in this rando and I believe you need all 3 keys there to get the chest anyway. so if i broke it, it wasn't there. I shall keep searching

austere nest Jan 13, 2023, 2:54 AM

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This is most likely a bug with the site. The playthrough lists only 2 keys before getting moon pearl out of the big chest, so it really does think you only need 2 keys to access it (even though it should be 3).

knotty hedge Jan 13, 2023, 4:22 AM

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thanks. figured it was probably something like that

bold knoll Jan 17, 2023, 4:54 AM

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@knotty hedge ~~@ JaidynReimen~~ Sorry, tagged the wrong one.
Sorry I missed this thread. Idk if you are still using CodeTracker, but Inverted on kara's site uses the OWR branch, which utilizes Inverted 2.0 terrain changes. Normally, if you use autotracker, it should detect that it is Inverted 2.0 and switch the logic mode to consider those changes, but there is a problem with the version on that site and makes the autotracker not recognize it. Unfortunately its just an issue that the site is a bit behind in getting the updated version out. So, you have to manually toggle the Inverted 2.0 logic, you can do this by right clicking the World State mode icon until you see the "2" appear.
If you're not using CodeTracker, no other trackers have the ability to show the logic correctly for Inverted 2.0. The new changes to Inverted 2.0 can be found pinned in the #ow-rando channel.

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:15 AM

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I think my randomizer is broken and unbeatable and idk how to fix it or if it's just not beatable... silver arrows are non existent and also some other items like progressive shields/swords are not there... the spoiler log says they are at locations i already checked - checked them again and i see the open chest were the shield/sword/silver arrows should be but i don't have it... i checked like 10 other big items like bug net and book and they are all correct in the spoiler thingy but not for some other stuff... idk why there are 2 progressive bows? (is it silver arrows and whats the second?) - i am so confused... i have like 95% items (already have all pendants and crystals) and can go to ganon but he just says "did you find the silver arrows... i think not" - can someone help?

This is the link to the randomizer: https://alttpr.com/en/h/odMEANzWM1

odMEANzWM1 - ALttP VT Randomizer

ALttP Web VT Randomizer

timber trench Jan 28, 2023, 12:17 AM

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Hard item pool means silver arrows are inaccessible (you're expected to know how to beat Ganon without them)

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:18 AM

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i see but what does "progessive bow" mean? there are two of these in two locations where i already found other items

timber trench Jan 28, 2023, 12:19 AM

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If you were playing settings where silver arrows existed, the first Progressive Bow you find is the regular bow, and the second one gives you silver arrows

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:23 AM

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that makes sense actually... is it also normal to not find the last shield/sword AND is it normal that the spoiler says lamp is in "Ganons Tower - Big Key Chest" but i know thats not true because it was in of the three chests in a small chest after fight with the worm in ganons tower?

timber trench Jan 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

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the Ganon's Tower Big Key Chest is the center chest of those three

lone lanceBOT Jan 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

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Big Key Chest != Big Chest

The Big Key Chest is the chest that normally houses the Big Key in Vanilla.
The Big Chest is the chest that is locked by the Big Key.

Source

http://alttp.mymm1.com/holyimage/z3r-bigkeychest.html

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

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nevermind i am dumb

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i thought that meant it is the big chest...

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ok, but i have one more: it says library is progressive armor... but library was 20 rupees, is it also that way because its "hard" settings?

timber trench Jan 28, 2023, 12:28 AM

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yes

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:28 AM

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is there no armor in hard mode?

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F Me

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thank you

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how many swords are available in hard settings? is it 3 or 4?

timber trench Jan 28, 2023, 12:33 AM

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https://alttpr.com/en/options

Game Options - ALttP VT Randomizer

ALttP Web VT Randomizer

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14 total hearts, 3 swords, 2 shields, green mail, no silver arrows

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intended to roughly mirror the euqipment you get in the NMG any% speedrun

deep bridge Jan 28, 2023, 12:38 AM

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i see, that makes sense now, thank you for the detailed explanation to everything and also for the quick reply.

noble trout Mar 19, 2023, 10:08 PM

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I still haven't found a sword. Can't finish Hyrule Castle and Skull Woods because of that. And I don't know where to look next that I can check.

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Items I don't have besides a sword are ice rod, mushroom, bug net, and book. I can't finish EP because I don't have the big key. I used 2 keys in pd and haven't found much, can't do sp because I don't have the key for it, and mm and tr I can't open.

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I feel like I exhausted all my options I could do. The logic I did set it to is 100% locations. But difficulty is on normal.

timber trench Mar 19, 2023, 10:21 PM

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could you make your own thread? preferably with a permalink to your seed so we don't just blindly guess checks?

#Stuck and No Idea How to Proceed