#Mystery Goal Rando -- All are possible, but only one is right.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

narrow vault
#

have you looked into the trinity mode at all yet?

cosmic storm
#

Did not know about it until now lol

#

any article about it?

narrow vault
#

it's not quite the same. For Trinity, you can finish with any of the goals (all active simultaneously).
I'm not sure how your proposal is different from just regular mystery seeds where you have to figure out the settings.

cosmic storm
#

Well, with a "mystery seed" the game DOES tell you the goal when you read the sign. Or the triforce pieces are in your HUD. But Mystery Goal only has one goal with all possible to logically complete. None of the goals are impossible. Just only one is correct.

narrow vault
#

All of the goals are possible in normal mystery seeds too (as long as it's not also a beatable-only seed). You're just looking for an exprience similar to mystery seeds from when before signs were implemented then

cosmic storm
#

yeah but triforces are in the game too

radiant urchin
#

can you describe the appeal of this mode?

fluid shoal
#

Beatable only Trinity can do what you want I think, but doesn’t guarantee only one goal is possible

radiant urchin
#

it would be easy to simulate this experience by simply not checking the goal, i'm having trouble understanding the appeal though

cosmic storm
#

The appeal is somewhat lost now given that I learned that the goal sign was not always in game

cosmic storm
#

I'm actually quite disappointed I did not give this a better name that perhaps distanced it more from "mystery seed"

radiant urchin
cosmic storm
manic pelican
#

The main issue with this proposal as I see is you have a situation where you're basically going to be checking the most convenient goal first, then it's either you're done or aw shucks and you move on to the next most convenient goal you're closest to, etc etc

cosmic storm
#

Actually forgot to add that point. i had thought about it before, but it slipped my mind by the time I wrote the post

#

it may even be worse from a competitive standpoint because it would literally come down to "Who picked the right route first?"

manic pelican
#

yeah I think you basically get the good parts of this kind of experience from mystery as is. But withholding one of the most fundamental components of info until the end or maybe the middle in the case of triforce hunt isn't super compelling imho

cosmic storm
#

I can't even think of a way of mitigating it. I thought about maybe just having Fast Ganon for his goal to make each route "quick" but that's not exactly guarenteed since you could still need all 7 crystals to hurt him

pastel beacon
#

Yeah, this is just old mystery before the signs where you dropped into Ganon until he was vulnerable or until he told you to go do something other than kill him

radiant urchin
#

iirc wanting to avoid this type of gameplay is already why people tend to avoid making yamls with a possibility for rolling both low crystal ganon requirements and also entrance shuffle, because it can encourage simply dropping down into the ganon hole to check if you have enough crystals to kill him over and over if you get a couple crystals early along with MS/fire but haven't found good pyramid access yet

pastel beacon
#

inverted ER mystery in particular

solemn hull
#

Let me add some of my thoughts here, too... There is (or was?) a similar way in the Berserker / Archipelago randomizer when you chose a weighted YAML file. Only problem: there is no option to disable the hint sign on the pyramid.

Trinity started as a "Troll Plandomizer", where even NONE of the default 5 goals were reachable, but the seed was still valid by adding a 6th goal .. okay, it wasn't truly a different goal: I just placed a Triforce (not a piece) in the last possible check (Validation Chest).

However, to even create a full mystery like in your idea, the following things must be "fixed" in the Randomizer:

  • Allowing LESS pieces in the pool than necessary (this is fixed automatically in most generators .. but not in the VT Rando). This gives the chance to make Pieces invalid.
  • Remove the signs on Pyramid / GT // Castle Tower (in Inverted)
    That way it could be made.

Well, but it wouldn't be smart. This way every player would ignore pieces at first and only go for "All dungeons".

Another thing: "Trinity Beatable" might be a thing, but it's more or less broken. Found this out while testing several seeds. It highly tended towards pieces goal (almost 80%) .. but haven't tested this with the most recent changes.

silk bay
#

I want to bump this. however im confused by whats the hold up? i would like if there was a similar functionality to the z3r sim site. is there a reason why this isnt possible?

narrow vault
#

The hold up is that nobody's given a good reason why this "mode" is interesting to exist

silk bay
#

my thing is that its not "near the end" that you learn the goal its just when you can access pyrimid

manic pelican
#

Yeah it's perfectly possible. Just not sure there's much appeal. It could possibly be accomplished simply by changing the sign text not to include crystal requirements etc. Maybe always putting the goal NPC in the castle courtyard and always putting the triforce counter on the hud

silk bay
#

a rando to me is a puzzle that is slowly solved as the peices get revealed... finding out the end state for me adds to that appeal.

manic pelican
#

I suppose but then you can always not read the signs. The problem as I see it is once you're near the end all you can kinda do is be like, maybe I can finish if I do this and maybe I can't

#

So you try pulling the ped or getting to ganon phase 4 and it's just you're done or you're not 🤷

pastel beacon
#

There are definitely places in the existing modes where you have this sort of potential go mode (wild maps in particular can create a situation of "I'm in go mode if this boss drops a crystal"), but fighting 3 phases of Ganon (including the actual hard part of the fight) seems like a bit much

#

Existing mystery mitigates this because if it's not a Ganon goal or if you don't have the requirements, Ganon just flat-out tells you

#

but, again, clearing GT for the pyramid hole is a high price to pay for that information

manic pelican
#

Yeah the requirement kinda has to be on ganon phase 4 or it has to tell you that's not the requirement which is basically just a sign with extra steps

#

Which isn't to say you or anyone else wouldn't enjoy it but I think it'd be less fun in practice than it might sound more broadly

pastel beacon
#

just quad silver ganon and you don't have to worry about it LinkFace (or did that get fixed)

manic pelican
#

No you can still do that afaik lol

silk bay
#

okay im confused. theres a misscommunication here

#

why are you opening the hole when you can read the sign next to the hole before going aga 2?

#

its as simple as going near the top of pyramid and checking a sign?

narrow vault
#

the original suggestion in this thread is to figure out the goal on your own, which includes removing the pyramid sign

pastel beacon
#

the suggestion in this thread is to not have the sign, or to have the sign at least somewhat lie to you

#

I'm unclear what your suggestion even is if we're keeping the sign as is

narrow vault
#

If you're talking about something else, you should open a different thread

silk bay
#

ok searched for mystery in this discord and i got this. i haven't been able to find a option on the site to surprise yourself with a mystery goal.

pastel beacon
#

it's done through #sahasrahbot; the website options are intentionally somewhat limited

silk bay
#

i just want the goal to be random. and kepp the sign there

still wadi
silk bay
#

ill ask in the proper channel. maybe you could tell me why the website options are "intentionally limited"?

#

@still wadi

pastel beacon
#

UI design is hard, and exposing everything would be needlessly confusing to people with relatively straightforward use cases

#

people always compare to the OoTR web generator but even OoTR hides some stuff in json files and side branches and other arcana like that

silk bay
#

i see. im looking at the documentation now. and i'm getting it sorta... is there a exhaustive list of weights and subweights and what they do?

still wadi
silk bay
#

mainly im looking at "accessibility" for example and i see "none" and i dont understand what that means

still wadi
#

accessibility: none is also known as "Beatable Only". You want accessibility: items or accessibility: locations usually.