#📄Wiki

1 messages · Page 5 of 1

craggy wind
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oh damn, it isn't.

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I am thinking of Bosses. Might be a nice lil' consistency buff between bosses and minor mobs to add that in.

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Added redirects:

  • Dragon's Nest
  • Shirley's Shrine
  • Saint Louvia (goes to Phantom Ship)
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mmmm I'm gonna tack on Piton.

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unexpected behavior in search dropdown. Typing "fire" gives Fire Bird and Fire Spirit. I can press space and they're still listed, but as soon as I start the second word they disappear.

So.. apparently if someone types "Valley of" before looking up at their screen, for example, they may think the article doesn't exist (even though pressing enter will show that it does).

Amendment.. "Valley of" keeps the article listed in the dropdown, but if I type the C for Corrupted then it disappears. (o_0)

craggy wind
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similarly, it is a bit perturbing that typing Fire Bi and pressing enter comes back with no search results instead of Fire Bird.

strange wing
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Yeah the search function is a bit wonky lol
+Big Overhaul on the Bosses article. There's still more I want to do as there's some inconsistencies and some missing entries, but it's a lot closer to finished now

craggy wind
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I'll take a look now. Are you down to do a small edit on Enemies?

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  1. Minor Enemies are referenced by several items, such as Total Vanishing and Magic Stone of Signet, and are defined as being susceptible to those items. Enemies who appear as random encounters fall into this category.
    I think the TV can be swapped for "death effects" or Instant Death, as you note in the next sub-bullet. It would be a bit more inclusive since there's also Demon's Gate and death-effect weaponry.
craggy wind
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We "can" put all the Virage data into one titular article. It'd be one of those articles that breaks convention a bit since it's sooo lore-heavy. Can also separate them out with four boss articles, but that will necessitate a dedicated lore article for various reasons.

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good job with the rewards handling on Shirley. Accidental extra parenthesis on Virage Head (I have fixed it)

Dang, the elemental spread is even worse than I remember! 🥴

strange wing
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Honestly I haven't come up with much of a plan for the Virage stuff yet- I was mostly just entering a lot of data and adding a bunch of entries. I'm sure I'll work something out as I go along, since I'm sure I'll encounter things which challenge the current definitions we have. Boss Minion is already wiggily bc some things are like, uhh maybe but they don't sound right, like Drake's bursting balls and wire, Doel's shadow and light blades, etc. Gotta figure out what makes the most sense to be separated out, and that's just gonna take some brain think as I go through it all.

craggy wind
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Gotcha. I guess it's a good excuse to link to the Item list! xD

strange wing
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Honestly I considered just having it as Magic Stone of Signet bc that one is completely reliable to my knowledge on whether something applies as a minor enemy, but then technically the first item you can encounter in game that specifies minor enemies is total vanishing so I felt it should be included for that reason

craggy wind
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People come at me about phrasing, and here you are with Drake's bursting balls!

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I recommend letting other people think about some of those things, though. For example, I'm probably one of the best people to handle the Virage situation craftily and effectively. None of us, even me, are meant to do the whole damn wiki.

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We get a few more brains in here, we put 'em in a blender.. good things will happen.

jovial lava
strange wing
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Eyyy just noticed the minor enemies blurb I wrote here is now the featured snippet so it's the first thing people will see when searching for info about minor enemies so that's pretty cool

image.png
craggy wind
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With the same engine and tab, I'm not seeing this. Rather, we're second in the results and it's for the Rare Monsters page!! Sure, thanks Google. (This is technically your fault for adding the phrase to the RM article aYaaaaa )

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Fourth result down is Enemies (the list). Anything but the specific article for minor enemies.

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maybe your search is including personalized results or somethin'. hmmm

strange wing
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Searched on my phone and it was the same (haven't looked at any LoD websites with phone) so idk. Different, uh, providers maybe?? I have no clue how google search results works behind the scenes lol

craggy wind
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same results between Vivaldi and Edge, both normal and private browsing.

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could also be A/B results.

strange wing
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shrugs

craggy wind
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very

strange wing
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+Polished my additions to the bosses article and added some missing entries
+Tightened the definition of bosses
+Evolved Boss Minion into Boss Extras to account for non-minions like Wire and Dark Sword

Next step for me will probs be looking into individual boss pages

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+Added trivia to Berserker

balmy robin
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always support trivia on dime a dozen minor enemies. Still remember discovering "pedipalps" when I did the spider from limestone cave

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and hunting down the specific mushroom for the marshland enemy

craggy wind
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@strange wing Boss extras sounds so much less cool. :(

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but as a trans person I love the inclusivity.

craggy wind
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Hmm. Since I elevated your (Wulves) permissions, your edits on the wiki no longer default as unpatrolled. I guess the admin group is "trusted", which makes sense. At the same time, that makes it harder for me to do my job lol.

strange wing
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That seems silly; even admins can make mistakes and should be double checked by others.

craggy wind
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exactly, we both make errors.

craggy wind
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Solved a few issues with Corey's help! My eyes ought to be bleeding from all the log text I scanned through.

@strange wing I ask you to hold on any theme edits or additions - but not the research itself if you want.

Firstly, there are various logfiles I need to inspect to track errors (some of which were/are on the wiki). Secondly, we're gonna be upgrading to the latest LTS of the MediaWiki software in the very near future. The LTS we're on reaches EoL in November, so we should migrate to the newer LTS that was released less than a year ago.

The access logs and error logs are very large (one is 6GB), and at least one of them is generating data at an alarming rate. So it's important to at least comb through / solve recent entries and update the LTS. Then, check for new errors after that. Then we should start theme testing IMO. Otherwise, if we do theme stuff now, any errors it may produce would get lost in a giant sea of log text. Sound good?

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  1. read current logs, one file at a time
  2. Solve errors. Write down any that aren't a fast/known fix.
  3. Create job that auto-separates the log, so there's one file per day or something like that.
  4. Set weekly(?) reminder to review all logs, and list all log locations so none get overlooked in each pass.
  5. Update to new LTS once the wiki has little to no errors remaining (currently none, but was really bad before today's fix).
  6. Begin theme tinkering
strange wing
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I had no idea there were errors; I'm assuming the things I'm touching aren't really of that nature. By theme do you mean the skin for the wiki? If so, sounds good.

craggy wind
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One of the errors was in a a file within one of the skin folders. It tied back to the wiki's main logo, but I still want to play it safe for right now. There's a big backlog of, well, logs that should be reviewed. It may result in necessary changes and I don't want any of your (or my) work potentially undone by such fixes. Just looking to prevent double work.

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yes, I mean skins. I prefer saying themes, but I will try to stick to the language MW uses to avoid confusion.

strange wing
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You can use them interchangeably now that there's a precedent, just wanted to be sure what you meant or if there was some bonus stylization on top of everything else

craggy wind
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Nope, just the one.

strange wing
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+Looked into plural magic word, and all magic words they have documented on their wiki, and unfortunately that can only work with numeric variables, so (the vs no the) situations aren't going to work within that. That all said, I've added locations to the tables to match the encounter IDs, so now locations in the synopsis is redundant and outdated. As a consequence, most enemy synopsis sections are going to literally just be "X is a minor enemy" Which honestly I could just have a link to minor enemy baked into the minor enemy template, so synopsis just become a lore section.

craggy wind
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by "added locations to the tables", do you mean the infoboxes we talked about? So it's closer to Boss infobox?

strange wing
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Yeah
+Changed the boss infobox to be more complete like the ones for minormobs, retired the stats section from their page as redundant and added a traits page for their passive effects just like Rare Monsters have.
+Updated Commander and Fruegel article information to be current. Likely can merge Sandora Elite into one article now that I've got a working model for a Minor Enemy Boss Hybrid
+The information for encounters is too vast to fit neatly in the infobox that's already got stats and stuff, so I've just moved it to be in the minormob template under combat. This will also allow room for expansion once we can get encounter chances. Since it changes some data entry locations, pretty much all of the mobs are going to be a bit wonky for a little bit until I can move the information to the proper location.

craggy wind
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I don't fully understand. When I'm done with errands I'd like to talk about it.

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I also still have a question about your message before my last message. (reminding myself)

strange wing
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It's probably easier to just see it visually, especially as I tweak things as it evolves.

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This is what it looks like after some trial and error working out what would look good

craggy wind
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Bad signal in my area =

Screenshot_20250819-102425.Discord.png
strange wing
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For the life of me I cannot get a Mantis by itself to show up in the Prairie on submap 43. Otherwise I've verified the data for Prairie encounters

craggy wind
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Hmm, perhaps we can add a line saying "trust us, it's there." j/k

strange wing
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For now I've just added the verified ones to the wiki and will add 43 if someone can verify it

strange wing
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So this is a compressed view where identical records were merged

image.png
craggy wind
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jfc that's a lot of locations just for 2x bat.

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er, road segments

strange wing
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And this is the document I'm making on the side to track everything so all the unmerged instances. I'm likely going to put the entirety of this chart once complete somewhere in the wiki like in World Map or something so that it can be referenced that all the possible occurrences were checked. It'd also allow people to make discoveries/add in case I got power slammed by rng which is entirely possible since I'm testing the entire game and even with like 40ish encounters a section that's about a 1.4% I didn't net a 10% spawn

image.png
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The colored sections let me know that it's technically one road, and each line is being on the road but from a different "direction"

craggy wind
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yeah, all road segments should be ID'd on the World Map page (Endiness maybe?? or should we consider that separate from a World Map article? Could go either way, first instinct is one article for both aspects).

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it's like a Location article, but at a global level, so. Might as well list encounters LOL.

strange wing
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So the encounters by submap sheet that I'm validating has Slime / Madman as encounters in Limestone Cave. I know you've said before that sometimes data is accurate despite appearances, so double checking this isn't some oddity in the code before I correct them to Slime / Slime as they appear in game

craggy wind
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I have no knowledge of an early-game Madman. It should only be present in.. the deeper levels of Flanvel Tower? or something like that.

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check with codies

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if we're talking about the beige variant.

strange wing
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Yeah that's the one

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Am I good to @ the community contributors here?

craggy wind
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the only encounter weirdness I recall, is one or two that comprised enemies from different dungeons. IIRC we wondered if it was unused, but it may have been found to be used somewhere - I just don't recall. One of the enemies in the formation was a Unicorn. Worth a double-check if you haven't verified it already.

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Yeah, it's welcome so long as you don't tag ad-nauseum. Corey, tfz, and others have already been in these threads plenty of times.

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Sometimes I hop over to another channel, sometimes I tag 'em here.

strange wing
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Oh I'm not talking about encounter IDs, I'm talking about this:

image.png
craggy wind
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Of course, if they say "don't @ me" what else can you do but worship that boundary? xD

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You're looking at the formations per submap?

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Oh nonono, I know that. I just wanted to bring that up on the side.

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worded poorly.

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I wanted to re-affirm where that encounter spawns, which means this very spreadsheet.

strange wing
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<@&439661342882922507> Hey if any of you are willing, could you check the encounter data for Limestone Cave regarding the two slimes that appear? For some reason, the archive has it listed as Slime / Madman, which while obviously wrong in game, could just be scripted weird like how Shirley has 0 exp but is scripted to drop 1,500.

craggy wind
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oh you literally meant the role tag. 🤦🏻 sorry

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you only need to tag codies. Corey, Zy, or tfz depending on the case.

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sometimes Icarus now as well, I think he specializes in the script engine?

thorn ruin
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Who dares awaken me from my slumber

craggy wind
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@strange wing 👈🏻 This one.

strange wing
craggy wind
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which fucking document even says madman is there??

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the main one, or one of the ones we're looking to merge into it and/or remove?

strange wing
craggy wind
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that's gotta be a mistake. I feel like if that was in the spread, we would've noticed years ago.

thorn ruin
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I don't have time atm, ping me later if no one else responds

strange wing
craggy wind
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I thought you meant exactly that! I was under the impression we were already resonating xD

strange wing
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Ohhh, I getcha

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I thought you were saying it like, as an epiphany or a sudden conclusion and I was like ??? xD

craggy wind
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It was just that I didn't think to ask which doc until just now in the convo, sorry heh.

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if you really want you can leave a note saying "mistakenly said slime / mudman, wtf?" Either we'll figure out the reason why in five years or it's meaningless. ^_^

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and hey, if nothing else, it adds to the stories of our work generating resources for the fandom.

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i'll make a good 10-second clip in a behind-the-scenes documentary next year. 👀

thorn ruin
craggy wind
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Whoever thought there was, must be a madman.

strange wing
thorn ruin
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You're welcome

craggy wind
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in case it's not written down yet, I just remembered that proceeding to a new Melbu phase clears petrification. IDR if it cures everything else.

strange wing
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Yep, documented in enemy behaviors. The speculation about other statuses being cured is also there and remains to be tested xD

craggy wind
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also: if the party is in Special, and a non-initiator is abducted in phase 2, does Special field get cleared?? (Battlefield change)

strange wing
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Not sure actually. I do know that he will always target dragoons over non-dragoons when abducting. Probably to keep the theme of him "stealing" their energy to use DD cannon

upper hatch
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Do we have an updated sheet of monster IDs with their corrected names?

strange wing
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We have this resource, which I've corrected any names that were incorrect overtime. Can't speak to its absolute accuracy, but its been used a lot so it's error rate is very low

upper hatch
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This shall work thank you.

upper hatch
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this new document will be unholy amounts of vlookup

craggy wind
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For submap / wmap dump?

upper hatch
upper hatch
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@craggy wind @strange wing please check.

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I hate excel.

strange wing
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Will look through it

craggy wind
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It's horrible compared to Google sheets IMO, at least in terms of shortcut behavior 15 years ago.

upper hatch
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well what i meant was the functions

craggy wind
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Have you tried uninstalling it?

upper hatch
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i should try that

strange wing
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So far so good, I'll be able to manually validate everything I can overtime.
For now, only things missing seem to be the World Map encounters and the % for each encounter. Monoxide confirmed it was 35%, 35%, 20%, 10%, do those values line up 1 to 1 with the encounters? As in, everything in Encounter 1 is 35%, 2 is 35%, 3 is 20%, etc?

craggy wind
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I'm still trying to make Libre Office work for me but I'm halfway there with it, thankfully.

upper hatch
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wmap encounters goose

craggy wind
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"You guys don't like road segments?" 🤪

upper hatch
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i did 95% of disc 1 already but TFZ said encounters change based on the direction

strange wing
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Yeah I've been looking into that myself

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Calling it direction is a bit misleading, makes it sound like the table changes based on which way Dart is facing, but that's not what it means

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Depending on the last location you've touched, the game considers you as "coming from" that location, and that is what can change the tables

upper hatch
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💀

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yeah no i am not doing that any time soon

craggy wind
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LoD ahead of its time in all the ways! \o/

upper hatch
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you get 189 maps that actually have the encounter rate turned on 😛

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what in the world is map 729

strange wing
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I've mapped out a fair amount of the possibilities by manually running around, here's the spreadsheet if you want to peek. For the most part, the encounters themselves are the identical regardless of "direction" but there's a few exceptions

upper hatch
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Some of the moon maps don't make sense.

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But the rest looks... fine?

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oh... the enccounter names table is not complete

strange wing
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Yeah just checked it and looks like entries are missing.

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Map 616 gets encounter 314, which is air combat and swift dragon. Well, I would have run into that anyway with me manually going through stuff, so it'll get parsed eventually

upper hatch
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i have the list i will finish it

craggy wind
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Much appreciated.

upper hatch
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it's done

strange wing
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Thanks for all the help 💙

craggy wind
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Stronger together! 💪🏻

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(there isn't an emoji for a flexing brain!?)

upper hatch
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Your welcome.

image.png
craggy wind
strange wing
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Copied Zy's additions to the counter data spreadsheet so it's complete

craggy wind
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pffft, can't you think up your own combo attacks? Copycat.

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counter data? what was missing?

strange wing
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Whoops- I meant encounter and somehow wrote counter lol

craggy wind
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Ah, that is a relief.

strange wing
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Updated the sandora elite page and deleted the one I made awhile back when I thought they couldn't be merged (I was the only one who ever edited that page anyways)

craggy wind
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@strange wing I'm seeing some inconsistencies with the descriptions we have for Gates of Heaven in different places. On the wiki, the page for Shana and Miranda just say 50% healing, and don't mention status cure. On the Game Info (Internal) sheet, there are old question marks for spell effects including that one (how? we literally documented the details after a renewed investigation recently). WS Dragon is also listing just the damage (on the two wiki articles). So I think we wrote everything down somewhere but it didn't get transposed to the wiki and Game Info sheet.

strange wing
craggy wind
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(sorry - I'm saying we did a full spread check on ML, GoH, WS Dragon, and RB, to confirm heal amounts, which ones revived, and status cure.)

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I understand, I'm just saying it's crazy the full info is in neither place. I tried looking for it but gave up for now.

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies up to the Marshland to include their encounter chances

craggy wind
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hrrnnnnggg

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I think I dreamt about wiki editing.

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies in Disc 1 to include their encounter chances

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies up to Home of Giganto

strange wing
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+Finished gathering observable data for all the world map roads

  • 47 Roads
  • 127 possible tables checked and mapped out
  • 56 different tables observed
  • 8 Roads that change their tables based on which direction you are coming from
    -While I was able to map encounter possibilities, probabilities remain unknown and could make a lot of the tables different (like if they had the same possible encounters but one of them occurred 35% of the time instead of 20%) so these numbers are only valid while disregarding probability

+Finished gathering information on most of the on contact encounters, but Death Frontier is going to be an entire project unto itself with how many submaps there are.

strange wing
upper hatch
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no i sent drew a zip with pictures of each segment

strange wing
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@craggy wind Do you happen to still have that zip laying around? I could double check the entries and if any are left unfinished I'll probably be able to work them out now that I have amassed this data

craggy wind
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Yes. Do you mind if I continue RL chores for a bit before sending? Can rush delivery if needed!

strange wing
craggy wind
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@strange wing @upper hatch maybe this is the right post: #1303066124207919124 message

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If so, I only have Disc 1?

upper hatch
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yes i only did disc 1

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i think that is right

strange wing
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Will parse through it when I am free

strange wing
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Alright, I was able to parse through both the text file and the screenshots to get an idea of where we are at.

  • Segment 14 is listed in the text, but without a screenshot. It's listed as having the same encounters as Volcano Villude- which shouldn't be possible if it's a different road. My best guess is that it's the same road as Segment 15, but just from the other direction (Villude -> Nest of Dragon vs Nest of Dragon -> Villude)

  • Two roads are missing (Kazas Intersection to Hellena Prison Intersection) and (Hellena Prison Intersection to Forest Intersection)

  • Obviously these were made without knowing that where you are coming from changes the tables, but even one of the entries was actually specific enough that it only can be for one possible table so that's 1/127 tables with the probabilities worked out xD

craggy wind
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What do you mean with the last sentence? Please help.

strange wing
# craggy wind What do you mean with the last sentence? Please help.

Each road at the minimum has 2 possible tables, depending on the direction you are coming from like A to B. However, some have 3, or even 4 possible directions. Although there are only 47 Roads you can walk, there are 127 total directions you can be coming from, and therefore 127 possible tables. Because of that, a lot of the probabilities that are worked out for the world map encounters, cannot be accurately assigned bc we don't know which way we were coming from when the data was collected.

craggy wind
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Well, that's what the new dump is for, right?

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Or do you mean like, when loading a save, it doesn't remember the last "coming from" direction?

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I'm probably way off.

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You said one of the entries is specific enough that.. ohhh, you may have meant to say only instead of even.

strange wing
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The new dump only has submap encounters, not world map ones.
I have no clue about the save- I'd assume that either it remembers your direction or defaults to the same one regardless of where you were before.
Oh yeah, I meant something like, "but at least one was..."

craggy wind
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Oh, hm....

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So you're saying we need to go deeper.

strange wing
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@upper hatch would it be possible to teach me to fetch the world map encounter data?

upper hatch
strange wing
craggy wind
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I'm happy to walk you through that part if you need.

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It's deceptively simple!

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His part may not be. <_<

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies in Disc 2

strange wing
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+Updated all Rare Monsters

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies in Disc 3

strange wing
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Correcting Pot Belly -> Potbelly in Battlefield Data spreadsheet

strange wing
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Whew, the minor encounters were fairly easy to enter up until the Moon That Never Sets (I skipped Death Frontier to do last because I knew it'd be hours of live testing since there's like 30ish submaps.) For the most part, encounters with a single enemy are usually kept to the 10% chance column and not very many for the areas. In the Moon though there's like a dozen of each (unicorn, swift dragon, etc.) and it's taking forever to parse it because when I control F it shows every encounter with all those minions and there's no way I know of to refine the search to exclude them. On top of that, for most of the game enemy encounters have unique IDs, but for some reason those on the moon have multiple and several are actually used despite being identical. (For example, an encounter with only Swift Dragon appears in IDs 272, 290, 302, and 310. Of those, 272 is unused, but the rest appear in various places despite being otherwise identical.

Judging from the pattern I'm seeing, I'm guessing that they were planning to use more monsters, but ran out of time/resources and just duplicated the single encounters into the awaiting IDs. I'm struggling to think of any other reason they'd have identical encounters under multiple IDs, and have used those IDs rather than just use one ID throughout.

+On the brightside, encounter data has been updated for all Minor Enemies outside of the Moon (in progress) and Death Frontier.

strange wing
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After checking the logs, it took roughly six hours to verify and update the encounter data for minor enemies on the Moon. By contrast, I usually do a location within an hour. I hope this helps paint a picture of just how all over the place the last segment of enemies in the game is compared to how neatly they wrapped up most sections. I also forgot to mention that it wasn't just the solo encounters, there were also paired encounters with duped IDs. Now all that's left should be the Death Frontier enemies unless I've overlooked anyone.

strange wing
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Just realized, we also don't know the encounter rate for variable contact encounters. The ghost flames have a chance to be either 453 or 454, and I tested to confirm that the same ghost flame can give you either encounter. Same is true for the Worms and Flies in Death Frontier. If it's a universal constant like 50% for either, I imagine that would be pretty easy to grab, but if it's not, the 37 submaps of the Death Frontier alone would make it a laborious task to rifle through it all. @upper hatch would you be willing to peek at it and find out?

strange wing
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+Updated all minor enemies encounters

strange wing
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Now that the data is entered, I'm doing a sweep for locations that don't have encounters, since it appears that although some submaps have encounter data, they aren't actually able to trigger (some are scripted areas that the party just runs through, like the end of Mayfil or the test room Savan uses)

strange wing
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+Finished checking the submaps, only 5 in total so minimal adjustments to the encounter entries

craggy wind
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added trivia for Lizard Man

strange wing
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@craggy wind How is the task board overhaul going?

craggy wind
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It was on pause while I have been sick. I had to pause several things and focus on the Red Moon event.

strange wing
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Fair, just excited to see what you come up with for it 💙

craggy wind
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Same. I really believe in going self-hosted for this.

gilded flower
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Hey sorry for the super late reply on this.

I’ll use the Sandworm’s Throw Sand attack as an example. It has 100% accuracy so if your character has no evasion, it will always proc arm-blocking.

If your character has 50% physical evasion, the attack itself will have a 50% chance to miss. And a missed attack will always results in no status proc.

Additionally, if the attack itself does hit, there is a further check for whether the arm-blocking status hits or misses that rolls against your physical evasion.

So there are 3 possible outcomes (odds based on 50% physical evasion):

  1. Attack misses - automatic no status proc (50% chance)
  2. Attack hits and status proc misses (25% chance)
  3. Attack hits and status proc hits (25% chance)

Outcomes 1 and 2 result in no status proc, so with 50% physical evasion you actually have a 75% chance of not getting arm-blocked.

One other thing I will note is that status effect attacks hitting or missing sometimes depends on your physical evasion and sometimes on your magical evasion. For the Sandworm, it’s based on physical evasion. However, Gorgaga’s poison needle for example is based on magical evasion.

Also, attacks like Gorgaga’s poison needle that only inflict status and don’t deal damage as well will only have the 1 roll for hit/miss. So 50% magical evasion will give you 50% chance of no poison there.

craggy wind
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This is super clear, thanks a bunch. @strange wing based on this, it seems we can make the combat behavior doc even more robust. 👀

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knowing what it rolls against will greatly help our internal docs, as well as the wiki.

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plus effective chance due to the extra roll (feels like DnD in a way!!)

strange wing
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iirc Lasagnaaammm already explained this awhile back and I added it then

craggy wind
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All of them?

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The document mentions the second roll for status, but I think an example might help clarify the actual chance (like Lasagna posted above). Perhaps this would be better to put in the Damage Formulas doc instead, even though it's not direct damage?

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or just a short note saying "chance of status being applied to the character can be misleading - i.e. 50% chance can be more like 25% depending on gear."

Maybe we just need a separate doc for evasion altogether? I'd be down to write a draft.

#

Send me your thoughts - I'm not sure what's best atm.

strange wing
#

Yeah all the attacks that inflict damage and a status are marked for which type of evasion applies to them. Honestly I'd just go and put it in the wiki rather than make a document and then have to add that same info to the wiki. Would just add it to the status ailments article

craggy wind
#

Ailments article is a good idea. As for direct-to-wiki, perhaps. It's niche but I like having dedicated shortlists instead of having to weed through a long doc to find each instance.

craggy wind
#

reframed a piece of bad advice on the Equipment article.

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Urobolus, Sandora Elite, Kongol, and Virage (Volcano Villude and Valley of Corrputed Gravity)

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Fire Bird, Greham, and Feyrbrand
+Adding Wire and Bursting Ball to the LoD Internal as they were labeled as "auto complete"

strange wing
#

+Added Sandora Elite (Clone) and Claire (Unpossessed?) to the same section. Decided to just look at all the remaining auto completes and see if any were something I'd recognize, so that should be the last of them. Only one other entry seems plausible as an entity but not sure what it could be off the top of my head

craggy wind
#

Which row?

strange wing
#

Actually never mind on the last entry, it's listed as a crash not auto complete

craggy wind
#

I sure wasted some time scanning the document. 👀

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Drake the Bandit, Shirley, Gorgaga, Serfius, Danton, and Atlow

strange wing
#

Dummy Lloyd (from Lloyd 2 fight) is unlabelled in the LoD internals, but I have no real way of pinning down which one is him since his stats are identical to many auto-complete/freeze/crash listings.

craggy wind
#

I believe Zychronix can lock that down.

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Lloyd and Jiango.
+The Emperor Doel article was moved to just Doel, but in combat he is called Emperor Doel so I'm going to move it back to keep with names used in game.

craggy wind
#

I disagree with that, but I understand your reasoning.

#

I would be more inclined to agree if it was strictly a Boss article, but it's a hybrid as many articles are.

strange wing
#

Would you prefer him having two different articles? One for being a Boss encounter and another as lore?

craggy wind
#

That's a different topic I opened awhile back - not much in the way of replies unfortunately. It would be clean but has sweeping consequences as well, so we'd have to think very carefully before deciding to do that.

#

and it still wouldn't be fully clean, there would be problems. So for now I'd like to just stay on the current scope with you.

strange wing
#

Sounds good, will leave a redirect so Doel just goes to this article which should help a little bit. I feel like it'd probably be just another thing that would be solved with a search engine that could parse titles instead of relying on exact match so hopefully it won't be a problem forever

craggy wind
#

I had gone through the trouble of removing similar words from other articles in the past, including that one IIRC. Another example is Zieg. His battle entity is Zieg Feld, and in his case it would be a spoiler to reveal that in the article name instead of in the article's story section (in tandem with Dart Feld). Verbatim doesn't always work, unfortunately.

We "can" fix this by simply removing the spoiler-friendly element of the wiki with minimal negative impact... but we do have new people streaming in constantly who use the wiki as a resource (treating it somewhat like a walkthrough).

#

I mean this half-jokingly, but I wish you would stop undoing my work lol.

strange wing
#

I understand; for me it's just a matter of deciding whether we prioritize accuracy versus being spoiler free. I feel like if people are already looking up the game online, spoilers are a bit of a given. It helps that most people who use the wiki are looking for specific articles or information so it's unlikely they'll come across random spoilers if they're looking at like minor enemy drops or status ailment mechanics

craggy wind
#

I agree. I would just like to maintain consistency. I believe removing honorifics and last names from article names is the best of a set of awkward options.

#

Albert is noted as a king in the synopsis of his article. The same sort of thing is true for Doel. I'm not sure if we mention Dart and Zieg's last name in their articles yet, but if not then it can be remedied in a future edit.

#

I realize Melbu without Frahma feels weird, given he's almost exclusively referred to with both names together IIRC.

#

I could see us putting last names back in article names, except for the Feld situation.

strange wing
#

Actually now that I think about it, I just checked the game scripts and Dart is literally not mentioned in dialogue as being Dart Feld in the entire game. Most new/blind playthroughs probably wouldn't even connect Zieg Feld as being Dart's father just from the name

craggy wind
#

Yup, LoD doesn't make it easy.

strange wing
#

+All disc 1 bosses overhauled

craggy wind
#

when can we download this overhaul as a mod for SC?

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Mappi and Gehrich

strange wing
#

+Total overhaul for Lenus and Regole

strange wing
#

+All disc 2 bosses overhauled

strange wing
#

+Created Kamuy and S Virage articles

craggy wind
#

side note: Accessories is probably outdated now, in relation to Equipment.

strange wing
#

+Created Grand Jewel article
Went through retail and tested all the remaining possible to validate information in the behavior doc for Disc 2 and am working through Disc 3. Only things leftover are the unknown percent chances for retaliate to proc.

strange wing
#

^Same for Disc 3 now

strange wing
#

+Created Divine Dragon and Windigo articles

strange wing
#

+Finished creating articles for all of Disc 3's bosses

strange wing
#

+Created Last Kraken, Magician Faust, Belzac, Damia, Syuveil, and Kanzas articles

strange wing
#

+Created Vector, Selebus, and Kubila articles

strange wing
#

+Changed the spelling on some entries in the Addition Counter Attack Data tables

strange wing
#

+Created Dragon Spirit Article (Includes both Dragon Spirits and Ghosts for Feyrbrand, Regole, and Divine Dragon)

craggy wind
#

Well, the Dragon Spirits are the ghosts.

strange wing
#

+Created Lavitz's Spirit and Zackwell articles
+Validated the behavior doc using retail all the way up to the Imago boss fight

strange wing
#

+Updated Triceratops and Crystal Golem as being immune to Instant Death (tested both total vanishing and demon's gate)
+Validated all minor mobs in the behavior doc, and bosses up to Super Virage (Moon)
+Created Death Rose article

strange wing
#

+Created articles for Claire, Indora, Michael, Dark Doel, Archangel, and Zieg Feld. Only one left is the big cheese himself and to finish up the last of the validation for the behavior doc.

strange wing
#

+Validation of the behavior doc is complete

craggy wind
#

I'm impressed that you determined Meru gets a bonus turn when healed by AA. Makes sense given the 1HP thing.. Claire must do the same thing. Now I'm wondering if it's universal.

strange wing
#

It was easier than you'd think thanks to the debugger tools in SC. I set Meru's speed to 0 so I could observe AA's turns without having to do an input for Meru and yet she'd still get a turn bc of this

craggy wind
#

Ah, I totally forgot about combat debugger. I am so used to only thinking about it in the context of enemy bonus turns. Good thinking.

strange wing
#

Fun discovery: you cannot dodge attacks from a confused or bewitched party member

strange wing
#

Interestingly, Melbu's various Evolve actions behave completely differently in regards to curing statuses. Thanks to SC's debugger, I've confirmed that his first time evolving will actually cure the party of any Status Ailments. (I do not know if it can cure Command Blocking, as this is not a status ailment, and not included in the debugger features, but it's kind of a moot point since it's not possible to have that effect during this part of the fight.) His 2nd Evolve doesn't cure anything (makes sense, given the first one cures everything and this phase of the boss has no means to inflict statuses, so curing here would be redundant as it's normally impossible to have any.) And his 3rd evolve only cures Command Blocking (even Weapon Blocking will still remain to my surprise, but indeed all other statuses remain after this evolution.)

strange wing
#

+Updated/created all articles for Bosses

craggy wind
#

Good news to wake up to!

strange wing
#

😁

craggy wind
#

Possible goof on the equipment page.

strange wing
#

Now that I've done all the minor enemies, rare monsters, and bosses, I just need to tidy up a few more things before I consider the Enemies section of the wiki to be polished. The only things that are missing which I can't add myself (lack of knowledge on how to do so) are...

  • The chance % of contact enemies to be certain encounters (phantom ship ghost flames and desert maze's worms and flies)
  • The chance % of retaliate to proc for bosses (Fruegel I, Fire Bird, Greham, Jiango, Kongol I, Emperor Doel, Gehrich, Lenus I, Regole, Kamuy, Windigo, Lloyd II, Damia, Syuveil, Belzac, Kanzas, Last Kraken, Dragons Spirits (all 3), Indora, Zieg Feld, Melbu Frahma (Phases 2, 3, and 4.) (25 bosses in total)
  • The chance % of Imago's dispiriting which I'm waiting to hear back on from Zy. Depending on the answer, this might affect other bosses too if it turns out that status attacks do not only come in 50% or 100% flavors.
  • The missing images for enemy portraits. I know there was some kind of method you all had for assembling the models in a program for best quality.
strange wing
#

Oof, just looking around for a few seconds and I'm seeing some errors. Will probably touch this one up quite a bit once I'm done tidying up the last of the enemy sections

craggy wind
#

With my then-groggy eyes, I spotted a piece of gear with no "who can wear it?" designation. Think it was a Haschel torso armor.

#

Side note: Gear tables are annoying to write cleanly due to all the gendering.

strange wing
#

Why does this game intentionally want to defy categorization ;-; xD Was going back through double checking things getting ready to make the boss extras page when I found something I'd missed.

Guess who doesn't quality as a Minor Enemy (immune to Magic Sig Stone) but IS affected by the Instant Death of Total Vanishing

craggy wind
#

Hmmm. IIRC both Hellena pets are prone to both effects, so it's not them. Maybe another boss minion. Technically Magma Ball should qualify.

#

Sandora Elite II?

#

Still mad about that one... So much potential to showcase how far the researchers had come since the first Elite.

strange wing
#

Nope, it actually is Guftas and Rodriguez. They're immune to Magic Sig Stone, but vulnerable to Total Vanishing. Having just checked all the boss extras, they are the only enemies in the entire game that I've found to be like this. Like there are a scant few minor enemies immune to instant death, and therefore immune to Total Vanishing, but that didn't feel like it discounted them as minor enemies, since MSS still worked. However the same idea in reverse doesn't feel as sound, since MSS's effect isn't produced by any weapon, spell, or enemy- it's only MSS that has it, it feels like the reason it would fail would exclusively be that an enemy is not a minor enemy rather than them having resistance to exclusively this one item.

craggy wind
#

Oh wow, I must have misremembered. That's bonkers.

strange wing
#

It just makes cleanly organizing things a nightmare

craggy wind
#

We tested TV on them a long time ago, as well as DG, so I'd expect that.

#

and yeah, instant death immunity by itself wouldn't mean it's not a minor enemy. They're immune to all sorts of things based on the flavor given by the devteam.

strange wing
#

I either...

  • redefine Minor Enemies as those that are affected by at least one of the items that designate them (TV, MSS, etc.)
    or
  • I remove Guftas and Rodriguez from the Minor Enemies category since they are unaffected by MSS (the only other enemies that behave this way are bosses,) and categorize them as Bosses (would have to change the definition of bosses from being totally immune to instant death,) or as Boss Extras
craggy wind
#

The best thing you can do here is never class boss minions as minor enemies unless they have a regular-encounter variant (Hellena forces, and Crafty Thieves). Those few will have dual classification.

#

Guftas and Rodriguez should exclusively be referred to as boss minions, regardless of the oddity with instadeath vulnerability.

#

That should solve the whole thing. :)

strange wing
#

Decided to look into it more and the issue with that plan is that TV's description is literally "Destroys minor enemies." while it turns out that MSS's description is "Blocks enemy's move for 3 turns (repeat)." I would have bet teeth that it included minor enemies in the description so that's super unfortunate. So, by the game's logic, Guftas and Rodriguez are minor enemies since being immune to MSS doesn't actually disqualify. However it hilariously means they aren't considered an 'enemy' and neither is anything that is immune to MSS (all bosses lol.) Well, either that or the game considers resisting MSS like a status but it just isn't one seen outside of this one item. Also double funny that now instead of being like, oh MSS affects all minor enemies, at best it's "all minor enemies minus Rodriguez and Guftas" which just sounds so much less clean. I'm still turning things over in my head and haven't settled on anything concretely, but what a mess. I'm gonna start by looking at what in game specifically refers to minor enemies and go from there

craggy wind
#

Ultimately this is a byproduct of the game's development approach. Big on ambition and passion with a variety of talents, but the team never worked together before and they started with a large project (inexperience). They decided to dabble in lots of little experiments like interactive combat and branching narratives. In this case it's the buffs/debuffs/ailments/etc.

#

If Sig Stone clearly isn't intended to block "all" enemies, then we can argue the same grace that Fruegel's pets aren't meant to be dictated indirectly as minor enemies.

#

They have a unique property. No more strange than Windigo being vulnerable to instakill via Sachet. 😉

#

I had to go check - Windigo's heart cannot be TV'd. I guess they already had their fill of Gilligan's Island.

strange wing
#

I think after looking over everything, that there are only two outliers from the organization that I'm moving towards.
1 - Guftas and Rodriguez are unaffected by all ME (Minor Enemy) affecting items except TV.
2 - The Crafty Thieves with Mappi are unaffected by all ME affecting items. However, they are the only enemy who can say that but are also vulnerable to MSS. Unless someone turns around and is like, actually X boss is affected lol xD
I'm still tinkering on it, but I'm making headway into sorting things out

craggy wind
#

I already have the ideal solution, good sir. :)

strange wing
#

So there are 7 items which specifically mention Minor Enemies, so I think it's fair to say any enemy that is unaffected by all 7 is not a minor enemy. By that logic, I think expanding the definition of Minor Enemy to being affected by any of the ME items makes the most sense. After all, we've already established that having Instant Death immunity does not disqualify Triceratops from being a minor enemy just bc TV fails on them. Therefore, even if an enemy is immune to most of the ME items, as long as they are vulnerable to one of them, they're still considered a minor enemy. I will note on their pages if they are immune to Pandemonium, which is the only ME item not already accounted for by immunities/circumstances. Knight of Sandora (Seles), Hellena Warden (with Fruegel), Guftas, and Rodriguez are affected by TV and are therefore minor enemies despite being immune to all 6 other ME items. Otherwise, if we say they aren't minor enemies, it opens the door to argue that Crystal Golem isn't either, since they're immune to all statuses and instant death, and therefore only affected by Pandemonium and Smoke Ball.

strange wing
#

+Created a master table of all enemies under the Enemies article

strange wing
#

Tidying up is finished. The only thing I could think to add that wouldn't require outside help is mentioning when random encounters become inaccessible (hellena prison, black castle, phantom ship, etc.) but for now I'm going to take a break

craggy wind
#

I disagree with your conclusion, but I understand where you're coming from.

strange wing
#

Yeah I figured 😅

I understand your point about not always having to take the game's way of categorizing since it can be self-contradictory and was experimental, but I also feel like saying Guftas isn't a minor enemy would lead to people posting about how he can be destroyed by an item whose description is literally, "Destroys minor enemies." at which point I think it'd devolve into an argument on what the devs did or didn't intend, which would be hella subjective. Short of the coding crew being like, "oh yeah there's like broken code here that should have prevented instant death," I think we'd come across as just having decided arbitrarily on what is and isn't a minor enemy. It's really unfortunate that we can't just separate the "minor enemy" classification from the ME items from the colloquial use of "minor enemy" to mean lesser foe.

And I know you wanted Boss Extras to be Boss Minions bc it sounds cooler, but then things like Wire and Light Sword would be called minions which just doesn't sound right.
I think if it wasn't for the nature of the wiki's search bar, I would have just merged most of the articles, like having Greham and Feyrbrand being one 'boss encounter' and so one article, and doing the same across the board. That way "boss extras" wouldn't even exist, as whether foes were vulnerable to certain ME items would be explained per article rather than an overarching list. It would mean non-minor enemies would be listed in the boss table tho, which wouldn't look so odd for Snow Cannon or Volcano Ball, but would probably raise some eyebrows at Senior Warden (With Fruegel) and Crafty Thief (With Mappi).

craggy wind
#

I am stuck dealing with something I have no control over, but I will reply more when I can. I don't think Wire needs to be called a minion though.

strange wing
#

Me: I'm gonna take a break
Also Me: Yeah so I did a minor overhaul on the Items page. It's not done, I can tell there's some information missing, and I didn't verify any of the locations or drops, and there's a fair amount of hyperlinking that could be done. There are probably a few more mechanical things I'd want to verify since a fair number of things were completely wrong.

-Also there's an article called "Repeat Items" which is redundant since it's completely contained within the Items article. There are also a handful of redirects to it. Are you opposed to me deleting all of that?

craggy wind
#

Potentially opposed but nothing serious. I will check the article after lunch, pls wait.

#

let me clarify: "probably not opposed but I want to check first"

jovial lava
#

Contents pane weird on mobile for no reason

Screenshot_20251030_002945_Firefox.png
upper hatch
#

Intruder alert.

#

Do we link out from the wiki to the archive anywhere?

craggy wind
upper hatch
#

was wondering if there is searchable large data tables on wiki or if you link to any datasheets on the archive

craggy wind
#

Mmmm as far as I know all data we enter is manual and unconnected when it first goes onto the wiki. However, we do some smart linky stuff so various things stay synchronized.

#

If this is about equip data, that's not synchronized yet. Would be nice though.

strange wing
strange wing
craggy wind
#

How long can a person survive without food? 🤯

craggy wind
#

The consolidated list of repeat items is missing a small amount of data from the dedicated article.

  • Pandemonium - remark 3 turn duration based on target. Secondly, double check about Guftas/Rodriguez. IIRC their own basic attack should comply with Pandemonium, and only the summon (which is sourced from Fruegel) ignores it.
  • some acquisition details missing (arguable?)
  • notes should be transposed.
strange wing
# craggy wind The consolidated list of repeat items is missing a small amount of data from the...

+Added duration of pandemonium and made it so the note information is listed within the item descriptions themselves for clarity.
+The attack you're referring to is not sourced from Fruegel despite him being involved in the animation. In no cases are they affected by Pandemonium.
+Added/rewrote some of the acquisition details so there's nothing I can see that's left out

Are you chill with me deleting the redundant article and its redirect links?

craggy wind
#

Yes, now that my lunch is over.

#

Ah I had the Fruegel thing backwards, too drowsy.

strange wing
#

+Deletions complete

craggy wind
#

I'm gonna do some wiki things today. <_<

strange wing
strange wing
#

+Standardization for the Infobox, Save Points, Rest Areas, and Shops has been updated for all location articles in disc 1.
+Added missing info for cost of rest areas and specifics on if any act as both a clinic and hotel
+Fixed a bunch of broken Hyperlinks
+Corrected an instance or two of incorrect information (one shop was listed as selling the wrong hat, spending the night at Lavitz' place was listed as curing status ailments)
+Added some trivia
+Lightly trimmed the collectibles and combat sections of subjective opinions and personal voice.

-I did not touch the general overview, story segments, or standardize the mob encounters/formations tables, so I would not consider these edits to be a total overhaul.

craggy wind
#

What type of standardization? Was the formatting inconsistent?

strange wing
#

Formatting was inconsistent yeah

craggy wind
#

kk, will review your changes today.

strange wing
#

Good luck

craggy wind
#

I'm gonna need it. My roommate is screwing up the cat feeding while the other three of us are not home, and I won't be back for another 30 minutes. Grrrr

strange wing
#

+Standardization for the Infobox, Save Points, Rest Areas, and Shops has been updated for all location articles in disc 2.
+Added missing info for some Stardust Locations
+Fixed a bunch of broken Hyperlinks
+Trimmed some subjective opinions and personal voice.

Basically the same kind of overview as the previous batch of updates.

There's definitely glaring issues that I've not addressed yet, like the minor enemies, battle formations, and bosses being absent/broken in many of the pages. After I finish disc 3 and 4 for the current overview, I'll go back for those issues and take a finer comb to the articles overall. I know that one thing that is bothering me at the moment is a discrepancy in how locations are handled. For example, Bale and Indels Castle are lumped together under Bale, and likewise Twin Castle is combined under Fletz. However, Kazas and the Black Castle are treated as totally separate areas. Not sure what I want to do yet, but I'm leaning on merging the Black Castle with Kazas since there's more articles already treated that way, and because the castles are contained within those locations so it seems sensible for them to be listed there. It would also prevent confusion if someone was looking up Kazas and sees "no bosses" and is like ??? or if I did the inverse it would lead to looking at the Bale article and seeing it list less than 6 stardust which could lead to people missing some if they're only looking up locations going off what the world map says.

strange wing
#

Basically ditto now for all location articles in disc 3 sans the Fort Magrad article which I'm thinking of merging into Snowfield

craggy wind
#

SLow downnnnn

#

very sad to lose "minor mobs" but I agree.

#

Would you try logging out and back in, please?

#

mm, maybe I wrote down this password incorrectly is all.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

unfair

#

Ahhh my password manager is merging the entries for lod.org and the wiki, despite separate login URLs. Fuck me.

craggy wind
#

Unintended long nap. Attempt #2.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

Good!

strange wing
#

Ditto previous updates for all location articles in Disc 4, so that's more or less all of them having been given the first pass

craggy wind
#

I like how you clearly didn't want me to overwork myself.

strange wing
#

What do you mean?

craggy wind
#

Location articles were a big part of my audit. :P

strange wing
#

Ah I see haha. Yeah I think at this point I'm just gonna solo re-write the whole wiki by the time I'm through

craggy wind
#

If you do that I will ban you! Ask Char, they know.

strange wing
#

To be fair, I am taking pretty good breaks in between working on it hehe

strange wing
#

+Alright, for each location article I'm going to be doing a much more thorough check and fill-in, so this will take much longer than the initial pass. For right now, I've just completed Seles after about 2ish hours. There are only two things that I could think of left to work on. First, I'm pretty sure the image currently displaying for the location is of the unused beta-seles instead of the actual in-game one, but I looked and we don't actually have the location thumbnail in the repo (the one labeled as such is the beta-seles if I'm not mistaken.) Second, there are some missing images now for the submap section.

The following tweaks will probably be applied to each article, so I'll only mention them once here.
+Added submap data.
+Fixed grammar errors, varied the syntax, and filled in missing information where pertinent for the story sections.
+Removed any personal voice/subjective viewpoints as much as possible.
+Verified accuracy of previously input info.
+Filled in missing technical information (this will likely include more hyperlinks, especially given how many articles have minor enemies entirely absent, and that while I was fixing broken links for shops, I wasn't doing the same for other sections until around disc 3 as my scope of work expanded.)
+Speaking of, added connected locations to the infobox for quick navigation to nearby locations on the world map.
+Added numbering to Stardust based on order of acquisition so people can glance at a location and know how many stardust they should have if they've gotten all of them up to that point.
+Made all internal formatting identical for ease of parsing website code.
+Added any trivia I could think of.
+Moving of gallery images to the submap data as applicable.

At the current moment, the only location I'm uncertain how to address is the opening of the game. It's clearly a forest, but adding it to the "Forest" section would create a lot of confusion, as would naming it anything custom like "Seles Forest" or "Opening Forest" since I think a lot of people would still assume that's just the first Forest. The opening is described in Seles' story section, so I think it would make sense to add those submaps to the Seles article since that's already been included. Am open to other ideas.

strange wing
#

+Finished location article overview for Forest

strange wing
#

+Finished location article overview for Hellena Prison (this one was a doozy just to add all the submap info, 35 might be the most in the game- only other contender coming to mind might be the death frontier or the moon)

strange wing
#

+Ditto for Prairie and Limestone Cave

strange wing
#

+Also throw Bale into the done pile but I think I'm off to bed for now.

strange wing
#

+Overviewed Hoax, Marshland, Volcano Villude, Nest of Dragon, and Lohan.

strange wing
#

+Went back and did a rework of the encounter formations to make it way more useful and easy to parse on the location articles. This also acts as a double check against some of the data I've entered previously for enemies.
+Total overhaul for location articles now runs all the way to Shrine of Shirley, meaning all I have to do now is Kazas to finish disc 1.

strange wing
#

@craggy wind Noticed something peculiar that you might be able to shed some light on. Submap 743 appears to be a duplicate of 696- warping to it plays the exact same cutscene. 696 is the actual submap we go to in game, but I'm curious if you knew who penned that it opens the menu as maybe they'd know more? These are taken from the group testing document for SC RB3 btw (not sure we actually have the submaps with descriptions on any other internal doc that I can recall atm.) If not, maybe one of the code-savvy peeps would know

image.png image.png
craggy wind
#

Revision history on Google doesn't support searching for specific changes (last I knew).

@upper hatch pulling you in for this one.

upper hatch
#

696 and 743 are not in my master dump of all submaps for upscale project

#

but i could have missed a map

#

oh it's in disc 1

#

warping to a submap and opening a menu seems strange

thorn ruin
#

Don't think there's code in the game to open the regular inventory menu

craggy wind
#

Don't the entries on the test spreadsheet include who tested each line item? @strange wing

upper hatch
#

743 is supposed to be the entrance with the black castle in the background
696 is supposed to be the black castle throne room

craggy wind
#

(o_0)

strange wing
strange wing
#

Updated the group testing doc's submap descriptions

craggy wind
#

@strange wing please check this against the uh.. internal submap list. Wherever that is.

#

id mastersheet probably?

strange wing
#

id mastersheet doesn't even have descriptions for submaps for the most part- although ironically one of the only ones it does have is 743 for "opens menu"

Also, I realize Zy's message might be getting misconstrued judging by your panic. 743 and 696 are cutscenes of the entrance to black castle and the black castle throne room- not the submaps of those places where we go as Dart which would be 188 and 660 respectively.

craggy wind
#

Right. I think we really need to label these in a more obvious way. Like, tint the BG cell color for anything that isn't primarily a "Dart walks here" submap. Whew.

#

I just want to know that the IDs are consistent between documents - and any descriptions of them. Perhaps I can transpose some of the submap descriptions from the testing doc, into the main sheet.

#

and check any submaps that don't have a description yet.

strange wing
#

I've been entering the info into the wiki by first going through the game as normal and just manually checking every map ID as I go- then afterwards I compare with the group testing sheet to see if there's any I missed or any discrepancies. So far the internal doc has proved solid minus this little description hiccup.

strange wing
#

It took a lot of work, but I've finally wrangled the Kazas article and have done one more comb through all location articles in disc 1. About the only thing I didn't add were screenshots for submaps or enemy models. That said, the full submap images we already had in the gallery I did go on and move into the maps section.

Gotta say the coolest thing to come out of this was the trivia I added to the Marshland- I never knew Lavitz's dialogue changes if you've already defeated Feyrbrand when talking to the Head of the 10th Knighthood. Instead of promising revenge, he apologizes that he couldn't come sooner- reflecting his character development after attaining his revenge and finding it empty. s8Lavitz DSJade

strange wing
#

Oh btw @craggy wind I saw you protected the Prison Island article- I figure it's a similar situation to Indels Castle/Black Castle/Twin Castle/Crystal Palace which I just created as redirects to Bale/Kazas/Fletz/Deningrad. I think this helps prevent the possible confusion of someone looking at Undersea Cavern and seeing no bosses and jumping to the conclusion the wiki has inaccuracies- or seeing Prison Island and seeing no treasure and thinking the same. (I remember some months ago I was blinking rapidly at the Black Castle article with 0 Stardust xD, took me a bit to realize that Kazas was its own article when it hadn't been that way for Bale and Indels Castle)

craggy wind
#

Also sending you a private message.

strange wing
# craggy wind Was Kazas looking pretty incomplete or messy before?

The scope of just what all I'm adding increased a lot from Forest to Kazas. Like around Shrine of Shirley the minor enemies sections stopped being in the combat preview format- and later I realized since I'm already adding map info like submaps- the encounter formations could be more detailed by just adding them to the submap info along with exact encounter% and escape%. Manually checking out all the submap ids, writing descriptions for each one, and verifying them against the group testing doc's submap section eats up a lot of time. Also I added a numeral to Stardust and made the goods section more organized by having a table for it especially since the name of goods on pick up can be different than in inventory and there wasn't a consistent method before (I decided to include both clearly labelled. I'm also casually updating the Goods article as I go as well to help keep everything straight.) Most recently I had to tweak the combat preview template since it didn't play nice with links that embed to a specific part of a page (necessary for Kongol) and had to re-add hyperlink marks to all the combat previews up to that point.

Kazas in particular took a long time because I effectively had to do all of that twice since it was being merged with Black Castle.

craggy wind
#

That sounds really comprehensive!! I don't have any notes on any of that atm, seems great. I'll have to patrol your edits mid-month.

#

well, one note.

#

I'm not sure based on your wording, but it's probably worth having a talk about how/when we keep locations grouped or separated. There are many layers that go into the decision. I don't want things fundamentally changed without some coverage of said layers, if for no other reason than unintended consequences.

#

In LoD there are only so many world map entrances/exits. This makes sense, because it'd be silly to go back out to the world map just to reach the black castle a mere two walking steps past the town model for Kazas.

#

So, if you're merging locations, we need to talk about that ASAP before any more changes are made in that regard.

thorn ruin
#

I think it makes sense to have locations like that merged together with redirects

craggy wind
#

Yes, there's potential for that.

strange wing
# craggy wind So, if you're merging locations, we need to talk about that ASAP before any more...

Yeah I mentioned it before awhile back but I think it got buried? Basically my method is most people will assume that a location on the world map will equal a location article for the most part- so any like, linked locations should probably be merged with a redirect from the location that is more on the backend side of things. Other than castles in cities, there's also undersea cavern to prison island, kashua glacier to tower of flanvel, evergreen forest to forest of winglies, snow field to fort magrad, etc. I think having the backend location redirect basically solves any issue of someone thinking there's a missing location. Disc 4 posses some uniqueness in that a lot of locations are directly teleported to- but I think that basically acts as a signifier of new place to most players. No one's gonna be mixing up Mayfil and Zenebatos- but some people might not even think tower of flanvel is a "location" instead of just like, a fortress inside kashua glacier. In any case, the redirects act as a catch all so there's no thinking info is missing.

craggy wind
#

That's a fair assumption while playing and looking up the wiki. The game doesn't seem to distinguish the area separation in the code, they're just submap IDs as far as I know (Corey or Zy may correct me here).

My focus is to be aware of possible mismatched impact/intent. Black Castle fits neatly within Kazas. However, I'd want us to quickly look at all wmap entry points just to be sure all areas would fit like that. Mostly a "think-ahead" thing. I agree with redirects - no better way to handle that IMO.

#

All castles should be a neat fit. Indels, Twin, Crystal.

thorn ruin
#

There are submaps and submap cuts

#

Picture cuts as the individual map pieces that make up the whole map

#

The warp IDs are cut IDs

#

There are also submaps used for selecting music and stuff

craggy wind
#

Nani??

#

Oh never mind, my brain read that last one differently for a sec.

thorn ruin
#

See this variable for details

Screenshot_20260105_125758.png
#

It's indexed by cut

#

Value at each index is the submap it belongs to

craggy wind
#

Okay, so submaps aren't grouped by a sense of location? They're just in a long array?

thorn ruin
#

That's the map of what submap every cut belongs to

craggy wind
#

Gotcha, I was thinking one level too high. Thank you.

#

Now I remember. @strange wing I wanted to ask about Evergreen Forest / Wingly Forest. IIRC it has a separate land area by way of the quest marker. It's "bordering" EG Forest, so I see how that could be justified as grouped together. However, on first visit to the EG Forest, Wingly Forest is not revealed to the player yet. It comes up a bit later, after the party split post-Deningrad.

#

so like, Kazas into Black Castle or any of the castles make plenty of sense, they're right there and you can reach them immediately. Same for 7th Fort and (part of) Flanvel, no issues. But Wingly Forest is a bit different since it's not the very next area explored after Evergreen Forest.

strange wing
# craggy wind Now I remember. <@595797093700993025> I wanted to ask about Evergreen Forest / W...

The vast majority of players don't really use the zoom out feature of the world map- if they even discover it exists and don't just walk straight to the next location for the entire game which is what most people do. The party does not immediately go into the Twin Castle either- they have to leave to two other locations first and come back- but even they didn't I'm not sure why WF would need to flow directly into EG for WF to be considered a part of EG. Between the dialogue about fairies in EG forest, and WF itself being incredibly small (noted multiple times from Meru) it wouldn't surprise me if most players concluded it was fully contained within EG like a small pocket of displaced space. It does have it's own model on the world map, but most players wouldn't notice that from what I've seen. If the "barrier" between EG and WF was more like a teleport, I'd be more inclined to keep them separate like for Zenebatos or Mayfil, but as a barrier it sounds more like they're physically touching.

While it does feel weird that a forest contains another forest since they're typically natural formations, in this case the wingly forest is just where the winglies live so it's more like a town in a forest than a forest in a forest (I imagine they wanted to keep the fairie aesthetic so calling it their forest as opposed to their town was done to give them a more non-like-humans vibe.) It might also feel a bit more separate as a safe zone within hostile territory, but that's exactly what the Seventh Fort would have been if not for the war. I also get that aesthetically they're a bit different like the color palette in WF feels much cooler than EG forest's yellow tones, but Black Castle has loads of purple and green as opposed to Kazas' muted color palette.

craggy wind
#

Good point about Fletz, I was mistaken there. Blargh.

#

Also, while part of the big picture is indeed player perception, it is a wiki's job to present the facts. Just because the Dragoon's D-attack has an elemental glow during the attack, doesn't mean it's always elemental damage. So we tell them that.

#

If it was close I wouldn't bother raising this, but I feel like this great of a distance is noteworthy:

image.png
#

I hope this helps make a convincing argument.

strange wing
# craggy wind I hope this helps make a convincing argument.

While true that we present facts- a lot of that is about interpretation. For example, I could argue that everything circled in red is the Evergreen Forest bc there are no marks on this map that mention other forests and all of the trees here are touching. If you disagree with that point, it becomes an argument about the definition of a forest- which quickly becomes subjective. What is the exact point that the squiggles for trees become those for mountain ridges isn't cut and dry.

Also a side issue is that the original map doesn't show wingly forest and that it's been added by hand- which makes it even more subjective on how accurate that placement is.

But what we're really working on here is the definition of location- which really just comes down to our needs. Every submap is 'technically' a location, as the most literal interpretation is that it's simply a place, but obviously we're not going to have an article for every submap bc that would be impractical even if it would be factual. Defining a location as any place that I can enter on the world map is no less "factual" than defining it as any named place in the game; or simply as any place we see. Ultimately, our needs are that whatever a "location" is, it is broad enough to feel like nowhere important is left out, while also specific enough that it reaches the highest number of people looking for it. For this we could say it's... Any named place on the world map that we enter or teleport to, with any location that is only accessible through another location being included in its article since they are so close together in the gameplay.

...

But yeah despite all of that counterargument I just gave you- as I think on it I'm leaning that they should be separate articles :3
Almost purely on the merit that I don't think anyone searching "wingly forest" is expecting to see evergreen forest pop up or vice versa. I do think it's hella subjective- tbh I think it comes down to the forest in a forest thing rubbing me the wrong way -but mostly I think having the locations split won't result in any confusion so having them split lessons that amount of info a user has to parse to find what they're looking for.
Lmao I just realized I've spent almost an hour writing up this reply- my LoD hyperfixation is going strong today xD

image.png
craggy wind
#

Given all we do here, I am puzzled as to why you assume the location I marked is not accurate. I would feel better if you merely asked for clarity on that, instead of making an assumption and using it as a basis for your argument.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

hell of a Bob Ross "saved!" maneuver you have there.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

Damn bob, flirting with the audience much.

#

Anywho.. I'm low on HP, but I'll recover soon enough. I have more things to reply to from your other topics in wiki chat. Will do that later though. I'm pooped.

#

Thank you for hearing me.

strange wing
#

You're welcome, have a good rest. I'm inching up on that 24 hour up time so I think I should honk-shu-mi-mi-mi before the sandman suplexes me down a flight of stairs.

craggy wind
strange wing
#

Got a completely reasonable amount of sleep(tm) for being up so long and am once more ready to nibble on the wiki. @craggy wind how is the progress board/task board thing you were working on coming along?

strange wing
#

Also when you get a chance can you look at the previous and next quick navigations on the location articles I've done so far and lemme know what you think? I was confident through disc 1 since it was pretty linear but disc 2's constant backtracking is making me a little wiggily on what locations should point to where.

strange wing
#

Finished the first pass on an overhaul to the Goods section (still need to verify a few of the inventory names/descriptions and check on the acquisition message of Kongol's DS in the moon.)
Did some preliminary edits to Fletz, Barrens, Donau, VoCG, and HoG- basically the usual formatting updates to the infobox, goods, stardust, and enemies, hyperlinks, alongside putting in skeletons for the map info to be added and doing some tweaks to the written sections.

craggy wind
# strange wing Also when you get a chance can you look at the previous and next quick navigatio...

I don't like the concept, but I understand the value. It may get weird when backtracking is involved. If each article only has a single entry for previous and next, consider the Fletz section of the game.

After the player's first visit to Fletz, the next area is the Barrens. From Barrens, going to Donau. Simple enough. However, eventually, the Next Area will be Fletz again. Fletz will still say the next area is the Barrens, because the information is static and can't track / update based on the viewer's progress. Such a thing would be way out of scope.

This will happen with other areas like home of Gigantos, Hellena, and so on. You can list multiple locations for Next Area, but that gets a bit spoilery. Think it over before you get too deep in it.

#

If you are still around I'm available to chat and catch up on your other topics as well. I am feeling better.

strange wing
#

Yeah that's kind of where I'm at with it. For Fletz the "next" locations would be Barrens, Furni, and Rouge since all three of those you have to cross through Fletz first to get to them. Even if I wanted to just make it like, "connected locations" it gets slippery bc Hellena would technically connect to Forest, Prairie, Kazas, Lohan, Nest of Dragon, and the Crossing Station which feels like a lot. I have considered doing it entirely based on like, what's the next new location, like if Donau's next was VoCG, then VoCG would go HoG, then HoG would go to Phantom Ship. I could also hide the name by just having the links as [[Phantom Ship|Next]].

craggy wind
#

The clean option is to skip the repeat areas in your system. Bit dicey, but the next area may sometimes provide minimal context. For example, instead of Fletz, set next area as Rouge. The beginning of Rouge's story section may mention the boat ride from Fletz to get there.

#

This means Ulara's Next Area is Rouge, shipping HoG and Fletz.

strange wing
#

That sounds good. If we leave it as just "next" I'd be worried about people getting confused (like if they assumed next on donau should go to phantom ship) but I'm struggling to think of a brief term that would be clearer. "Next Unvisited Location" is a bit long but I'd rather be lengthy and clear than short and confusing. Any ideas for a better term?

craggy wind
#

Well, you're exactly right. No option is perfect. I went through all this a few years ago, which is why I decided it wasn't a good fit for the wiki. I empathize with your plight.

#

My honest advice is to remove the system for now. However, I know you want to make it work. I don't have any ideas about this atm.

strange wing
#

Hmm, I'll remove the feature if we can't come up with a solution but I'd like to keep trying for now. What if we number the locations and then format it like this:

"#. Location"
(##)<-previous | next->(##)

So filling it would look like...

  1. Seles
    (N/A)<-previous | next->(#2)

Then

  1. Forest
    (#1)<-previous | next->(#3)

This way I think people would intuit that since they are numbered, a location isn't going to have two numbers so the "next" must automatically refer to the next unique location rather than next to be visited.

craggy wind
#

Possible!

#

Have fun working in optional areas and deciding their number. /s

strange wing
#

What places do you consider as optional?

thorn ruin
#

Marshlands

strange wing
#

You mean the Seventh Fort where we fight Sandora? That's merged under the Marshlands article so it wouldn't get a number of its own.

craggy wind
#

I'm just joking around. It's mostly straightforward

#

Although I am mourning the loss of all those synopses we wrote for locations that are not merged. :(

#

Perhaps some of that can be preserved in a subsection under Story 2.

#

It won't bring back the hover functionality but it's something I guess.

strange wing
#

I'm a little confused, what synopses did we lose? The only article I have merged was black castle into kazas and I copied the synopsis over for the most part (with some tweaks so it would fit and flow right alongside the synopsis from kazas)

craggy wind
#

You mentioned Flanvel, for example. I'm looking at it while I'm still allowed to, haha.

strange wing
#

Ah, don't worry, if I did merge them I would preserve the synopsis in the process, although yeah nothing I can do for the hover functionality. That said, I'm still not 100% sure if I'm for merging Flanvel with Kashua Glacier since they have totally different minor mobs. It does make since to say Flanvel Tower is in Kashua Glacier like how Black Castle is in Kazas- but I think this is the only location pairing that has two totally different sets of minor enemies unless I'm mistaken.

craggy wind
#

I really want to jab you in the arm right now. :P

strange wing
#

Meannnn

#

xD

craggy wind
#

Well when you justify enemy sets but then give distance a pass, I'm going to be aYaaaaa with you lmao. After all that yesterday.

#

Updated the Goods article. Intro text needed revision.

strange wing
#

Yeah distance is an important factor but I think I prioritize avoiding possible misunderstandings above all else - like if we merge FT and KG someone might think you could encounter Icicle Ball in FT or Dragon Soldier in KG... but that would be solved once the submap data is entered so now I'm leaning back towards merging them :p

Looks great, could you update the definition in the Items article as well if you haven't already? I also added a hyperlink linking the Goods and Items articles

craggy wind
#

So much pain.

#

I don't know what you mean about linking Goods and Items together.

#

updated definition on Items page.

#

Long ago there was a decision to prune articles for specific equipment and consumables. I am going to do cleanup of this sort now, starting with Heat Blade. There will be very few exceptions, notably the Dragon Buster which will primarily be a lore article.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

This is what I meant re: unintended consequences. Any link to the crystal palace shows hover text for Deningrad instead. Links for Flanvel will instead show hover text for Kashua Glacier. Links for Wingly Forest will show text for Evergreen Forest. This is not a good experience for the typical user.

image.png
#

Ideally we would be able to set multiple points on a page that can be grabbed by the hover/preview feature. To my knowledge we can only set one, because it's based on the beginning text of the article (plus one or more words in bold)

#

Looks like there are only a few errant equipment articles, mainly for Dart's weapons. For sake of the search function, I will create redirect articles for all the other equipment. Then people can get sent straight to the equipment article after pressing enter, instead of being shown search results which forces an extra click.

strange wing
#

I think we could just mention both locations together within the first sentence of the synopsis and that would fix it. I know Crystal Palace, Indels Castle, Twin Castle, and Seventh Fort didn't have pages before I made them redirect to the locations that contain them so there wasn't any synopsis to merge.

#

Yeah there's still a lot of broken hyperlinks or ones that are like, [[Claymore]] instead of [[Equipment#claymore|Claymore]]. I've just been correcting as I go

craggy wind
#

I strongly oppose that suggestion. While it will work for places that only contain their host castles, it will not work for the Evergreen Forest or Kashua Glacier.

One of the core tenets we've maintained since day one is an orderly sequence of spoiler content. We cannot do that if we start listing multiple locations together in a single synopsis.

#

Not to get all lofty about it, but rather for context: this particular principle is the reason this wiki was created in the first place.

strange wing
#

I thought we already agreed to keep EF and WF as separate?
I think we can still keep the order sequence for spoilers while listing multiple locations, or at the very least I'd like to try. Something like, "Kashua Glacier is a mountain of ice connected to Flanvel Tower, a large spiraling structure supported by rocky outcroppings. It is located southwest of Deningrad and west of Evergreen Forest." wouldn't spoil Flanvel's lore about being a Wingly Fort or that it contains the Moon Mirror, but would assuage anyone looking at the hover feature from thinking they are seeing the wrong article. Thoughts?

craggy wind
#

I don't recall that. The stress I experienced may have made me forget that detail, but I didn't leave the conversation feeling like I was successful in that regard.

#

Unfortunately I do not agree with your example. If we stick to the original operating idea that players will use the wiki as a first-playthrough guide, Flanvel Tower being revealed is a spoiler; even if the player would learn that 30 minutes later post-Windigo.

strange wing
#

Flanvel is mentioned first tho- Miranda says, "In the Tower of Flanvel, to the west of Kashua Glacier."

craggy wind
#

Well, I concede on that point! Unfortunately I'm still not okay with grouping in general.

thorn ruin
#

I don't think wikis lend themselves well to a playthrough guide

craggy wind
#

They don't, but they are still used that way due to the overlap (as oftentimes, a wiki is more comprehensive/authoritative than a personal guide).

jovial lava
#

Can confirm I've used wiki guides in games before

strange wing
craggy wind
#

I grew up around some people who were simply looking for more information, or more accurate information. A guide doesn't "owe" completeness or accuracy, but we wanted to be sure. So we went to wikis which tended to be way more helpful.

thorn ruin
#

Exactly, the purpose of a wiki is to present facts, not hide info until a person is ready for it

craggy wind
#

I am pretty sure we all agree that wikis are about the facts.

#

We can simply decide to get rid of the ordered spoilers thing. Most people who use the wiki have already completed a playthrough, and are just looking for piecemeal info about a specific place or general browsing. The number of users who haven't finished a playthrough will be very small, so we can just put a warning on the front page and leave it at that.

#

Myself and others at the time were coming from a place of courtesy for the minority, and because the editors on Fandom totally blew it. That's pretty much all there was to it at the time.

strange wing
# thorn ruin Exactly, the purpose of a wiki is to present facts, not hide info until a person...

To be fair we're not actually keeping any information off the pages themselves- we're just presenting it in the order you'd acquire it in game for the synopsis/story sections (which like, telling the story chronologically makes the most sense anyway) and that affects the preview we get when hovering over links. I think it's fine to just have the synopsis be a physical description since I don't think that really spoils anything of consequence and lets the user know it's the right page before they click the link.

craggy wind
#

Yes. The point of any article with story content is to, generally, write in chronological order; with some exemption for things like past events, flashbacks i.e. Lloyd and Diaz in Kadessa.

#

For the hover thingy, the purpose of it is very specific:

  1. Give context without needing to click on the link to know what it is
  2. potentially makes the user interested enough to view more content on the wiki.

#1 is more for, like, general Wikipedia. For LoD we already know what Location XYZ is 95% of the time, or XYZ boss, and so on. So it's not as important for synopses, but the quick context can be a good refresher for general browsing.

#

I'm down with dropping the spoiler sensitivity, switching instead to a front-page blanket warning. For people who want a guide, I was thinking we could put a general / skeletal guide on the main website anyway. Then we can cross-link the two, which may help them both get a little more traffic with no downside.

thorn ruin
#

I think that makes sense

strange wing
#

Yeah I don't think I could write a synopsis that is both spoiler free and also interesting to draw in more viewers, so I'm down with dropping spoiler sensitivity too. Having a linear guide would also be way easier to write without worrying about spoilers than a comprehensive wiki article.

craggy wind
#

Ironically I just updated the front page 30 minutes ago. :P

strange wing
#

So for an interesting synopsis... "Home of Giganto, notoriously known as the ruin where Gehrich is glad to receive his master's fist." 🤛 s5Haschel vDSViolet

craggy wind
#

I still recommend caution, as the system we had for locations before was working very well and now lots of things are in flux. I presume you have not updated the style guide as you went along, so I think we should at least take a short break. Our docs need to be checked and updated anyways. newcomers might join the project any time, and we need our house in order given all the recent changes.

#

Taking out time to revise our docs and whatnot will also give us an opportunity to re-align with one another.

strange wing
#

That sounds like a good idea. I'll take a look and see what all needs updated that I can see

craggy wind
#

Okay but like.. together. Not lone wolf. Togettthherrrrrrr. I will get the Sandora Elite's grapple chain if I have to.

strange wing
#

Ye!

thorn ruin
craggy wind
#

Thanks Mr. Severed Halos.

#

(inspired by Icarus)

strange wing
#

The article writing tips still looks solid, it's just good practices for writing so I doubt it'll ever need much overhaul.

craggy wind
#

What's your availability look like for the next few days?

strange wing
#

Free for the most part. Today specifically I do have to go out later but I've no idea what time but it's gonna eat up like 4 hours at least. I did also wake up about... 9ish hours ago so I've got about 6ish of natural alertness left in the tank

craggy wind
#

okay, I will only use 5.

#

Food then call?

strange wing
#

Yeah that sounds good, I just had some bacon and it was bomb 😋

craggy wind
#

I want some bacon!!!

strange wing
#

opens door to the wiki mines
It's totally just through here :3

craggy wind
#

Can we put some bacon on the wiki?

strange wing
#

I feel like there is actually bacon in one of LoD's submaps... was it a food sprite in the dining room of Fletz? I can't recall xD

craggy wind
#

Feel free to divine it from this image:

kzm6l412kw1a1.png
#

There's at least one Wumpa fruit. Time to link back to the Crash Wiki and ask for the same in return.

#

okay I'm ready.

craggy wind
#

lmao, re:spoiler stuff I apparently brought this up in September: #1194378507032211467 message

craggy wind
#

todo

  • update Style Guides. Wulves to check against on-wiki Style Guide page, so we can delete the latter.
  • Drew to link GDoc style guide, onboarding, etc. on Wiki front page (erect a helper section/box)
  • finish audit of articles (keep/prune/redirect)
  • finish audit of text content in all mainline articles
  • after text, proceed with audit of all uploaded images (copyright)
  • change link and visited link color - readability/contrast
  • Drew - Update the temporary article checklist in the Wiki folder of GDrive
craggy wind
#

added various redirects, typo corrections, etc. to various articles. Updated front page.

strange wing
#

I tried to find a style guide on the wiki but no dice, was it already deleted?

#

+Did some more tune-up of the style guide and onboarding
+Created two new pages on the wiki article status google sheet, overview and locations, and tidied up the initial list by deleting entries I personally completed for easier navigation

strange wing
#

+Created two more new pages on the wiki article status google sheet, player characters and characters. I populated the characters page with every named character or one who has story significance that I could think of off the top of my head so it's definitely incomplete

strange wing
#

@craggy wind When you get the Gold Dragon DS from the moon- the text is actually the same if you get it from Lohan, "Dragoon Spirit found in Lohan Earth-based." I confirmed this is the case in both SC and retail. Previously it was listed in the Goods article as having a different set of text, "Dragoon Spirit Indora gave Kongol. Earth-based." if obtained from Indora. Any idea if this is a case of a difference between NA and EU?

craggy wind
strange wing
#

Read through the style guide on the wiki and it should be good to be deleted- nothing pertinent there that isn't already on the style guide

craggy wind
craggy wind
strange wing
strange wing
craggy wind
#

ah, well I blame you for spinning me in circles! No idea, recommend scanning through an EU playthrough on Youtube.

#

EU (English) is a weird localization from the get-go. Censorship as well as name changes. For example, Japanese Guidebook has some English text including "Everlasting Moon." NA changed it to MTNS, while EU reads Everlasting Moon. 🤷🏻

#

as to what the proper JP translation is, I'll check with our peeps in that realm.

#

as well as the Goods text. Would be interesting to see if in-game JP Goods names match the guidebook or not anyways.

craggy wind
thorn ruin
#

Meenage tutant ninja surtles

craggy wind
#

I'm very sad to report that the Ninja Turtles do not have accounts on our wiki. :( need more cowabunga.

thorn ruin
craggy wind
#

ninja turtles with additions? Yes?

#

they could do so many cool and goofy attacks.

craggy wind
strange wing
strange wing
craggy wind
#

I loathe subheadings in spreadsheets. Makes sorting impossible.

#

(not aYaaaaa at you, just limits of reality)

strange wing
#

Fair xD

craggy wind
#

are we co-working on accident today? <3

strange wing
#

Ye, collaboration goes brrrr 💙

craggy wind
#

Removed Main tab, others tabs are loosely established now.

#

Did you newly set these percentages, or are they old?

#

or should I go through one tab at a time to check the info against current state?

strange wing
#

I set those percentages and filled in those notes sections

craggy wind
#

on all tabs? some of this looks old.

strange wing
#

If it's on the Locations, Characters, or Overview tabs then I wrote it up from scratch earlier when I woke up yeah- although looks like that would be Groups/Mechs and NPCs now

craggy wind
#

Got it, thank you.

#

I am being ad-hoc about the tabs atm, just to get it all wrangled until our audit is complete.

#

am listening to the old Remixes playlist I made on Youtube years ago. What do the youngsters say? It's "sending" me. Sending me into what? A furious tizzy?

#

Not sure if you set Items to 25% (I moved some things between tabs, but it's in groups/mechs now). I want to set it closer to 95%, given the page is very well fleshed-out atm.

#

ah, we are also scoping out game info (int) together. 👀

strange wing
#

Sounds good to me, the only thing I knew for sure is missing was some of the drops are missing

#

Oh and yeah that was me, I initially set it to 25% bc I forgor that I'd already combed it a bit back in October lol

craggy wind
#

I mean, you're free to do the work twice, but I wouldn't recommend it. 😉

#

item drops, hmm.

#

updated on sheet

strange wing
craggy wind
#

sounds perfect. I made a note of that on the sheet.

craggy wind
#

pretty much done with Groups tab, save for Enemies. Didn't check that one.

strange wing
#

Also I feel you on the music getting one in the mood to work on LoD, I actually downloaded the audio off of one of zy's hell mode vids years ago just to have a 20 minutes track of uninterrupted LoD boss combat sounds- also I think the music in that one was a cover of boss theme 2? (my fave) and it's pretty useful for keeping my brain on track lol

craggy wind
#

That's odd. Historically he applied FF music on his LoD battle videos. You must have come across an imposter.

strange wing
#

I wonder if I can find the exact one, lemme see

craggy wind
#

Eyyyy this is the Fintom rendition! He has an amazing take on Cantina Band music from Star Wars. One of my favorites.

#

Cronchy HP

image.png
#

I'm adding links to stardust reward table on Stardust.

#

moved armor/acc/weapon article status to Group tab.

#

switching gears back to my all-pages audit before tackling other tabs.

#

That way, I can fill out the sheet as I go.

#

renamed Equipment tab to Redirects. All redirects can go here, and be simply marked.

#

We really need to make a universal, templated table for certain things like weapons. That way we can just source the same data to multiple articles (i.e. Dart and Equipment should both have an identical, synced table of Dart's weapons by pulling such table from a template.

#

this would help ensure that table width isn't just uniform in-article, but also uniform across multiple articles that display the same kinds of information.

#

(The player char style guide needs an audit, but i imagine we'll have a section on those articles for "compatible equips" to each specific char)

#

Since you and D-wrecks did so much work on enemy combatants, I am omitting these from my all-pages check. Please update / add entries for them on the spreadsheet at your convenience if you're okay with it.

strange wing
#

Yeah currently the style guide for player character articles is just blank. There was a placeholder one on the wiki guide but it was literally just identical to the locations article for the most part (Synopsis, story 1, story 2, etc.) soit kinda needs rebuilt from the ground up. After Lore most players are going to be looking for what additions unlock at what levels, what gear/equips a char can have, and then probs things like dragoon magic and then the full list of stats at all levels and exp for those levels kind of stuff. There's probs things I'm not recalling off the top of my head as well, but generally that would cover a lot of usage cases.

craggy wind
#

self-bookmark: E

#

Dart is the current model for P-chars atm. It needs revision but is the closest to full atm.

#

I'm down to take lead on that for a bit, at least make some headway, once I'm cleared some of my current wiki tasks. Are you down to take lead on the Minor Enemy or Boss style guide eventually?

#

added boss extras to the Groups/Mechs tab.

strange wing
#

Yeah I can, although I kind of merged how Minor Enemies, Bosses, Rare Monsters, and Boss Extras are displayed- so it'll just be one style guide for all of those articles. Might literally just call it Enemies instead of listing out all four categories for brevity

craggy wind
#

I don't understand how that is possible to some extent. Bosses and minor enemies have inherently different style guides, mainly because minor enemies almost never have lore (sans Gangster for example).

#

plus combat behavior - two distinct unmatching systems.

#

Some of the articles are such a hot mess! 🥴

strange wing
#

Basically they all follow the general flow of infobox, lore, combat, gallery, trivia, and references. While marginally different templates get used for each category, that's basically just so that the text at the top links to a minor enemy instead of a boss. For basically anything that would fully separate them- there's always an exception. Like you said, most minor enemies don't have lore- but sandora soldier and hellena warden are kinda loaded. And combat behavior- you'd think minor enemies don't have traits (passives) but nope some very very rarely do like Crystal Golem being immune to instant death effects.

craggy wind
#

I'm through the E pages. 😓

strange wing
#

Yeah there's a lot of issues to sort through 😅
I literally just accidentally discovered a Ghost Knight page that somehow got past me- The Ghost Knight(s) are already included in the Ghost Commander article so I just turned that page into a redirect.

craggy wind
# strange wing Basically they all follow the general flow of infobox, lore, combat, gallery, tr...

I don't see why we would create categories based on exceptions instead of the vast majority. I have to put my foot down on this one, because if I don't, it sets a precedent to apply this elsewhere (i.e. merging player characters into a generic Characters template). I'm not down with this.

Life is a spectrum, and also, specific categories and labels are key to presenting information effectively.

strange wing
craggy wind
# strange wing Yeah I can, although I kind of merged how Minor Enemies, Bosses, Rare Monsters, ...

You noted it'd be one style guide for all of them. I am asking us not to do that. There are many overlapping sections, but multiple sections are different. To cite something else: Player chars and NPCs will share their lore, pic spread, trivia, etc., but that doesn't mean we merge it into one style guide.

I believe there is value in keeping the style guides separate re: bosses, minor enemies, rares, and extras, as we already justify this in other parts of the wiki and it works well.

#

I hope that helps us make a bridge.

strange wing
#

Could you give an example of what the minor enemy style guide would have that the bosses guide wouldn't or vice versa?

craggy wind
#

I have provided two examples above.

#

Perhaps we agree in spirit, but are tripping over the verbiage. I'm asking to keep the style guides separate, because they have value despite overlapping information/structure (same as other aspects of the wiki).

strange wing
#

Yeah this has to be like a language barrier thing where we're talking about two different things and not realizing it. As far as I understand you like how the minor enemy and boss articles are currently organized right?

craggy wind
#

Correct. I simply want the guides to reflect the flow of each type independently. There's room for merging, but I believe this would make the guide too flowy/potentially confusing for new editors who may need to consult them in the future. Worst case scenario there's a little duplication in the outlines/guidance on each style guide. Copy-paste is only slightly evil in this case. 😈

#

tl;dr I believe distinct guides best a catch-all in this case.

#

I have made it thru 2 out of 3 columns for my general audit!!

strange wing
#

Maybe it'll make more sense to me after I write up the first style guide and you tell me your thoughts on it 😅

craggy wind
#

Reality before theory? Preposterous.

#

I added Prison Island / Undersea Cavern to the Locations tab of the spreadsheet.

#

with note for PI, rest blank

#

I have finished my cursory audit, which excludes enemy articles in general. I had already reviewed locations recently. I have moved all discussed articles to be pruned/redirected (gear and consumables).

This means I can proceed with making redirects for all remaining gear and consumables that don't already have one (so they appear in the search bar for user convenience). I will probably just do consumables for now.

(side note: we could do this for Goods as well alongside the other work we're doing atm, but many will not be redirects, so might be best to table that until we've eaten most of the food that's already on our plate)

#

That Lohan NPC was right, all we have to do is make whoopee and things get better. 🙄 🤣

strange wing
#

Thoughts on the style guide for minor enemies?

craggy wind
#

just got back from errand.

#

It looks okay. I was anticipating the outline format, since that was the basis for Locations (with code after). But as far as code goes, I can only presume it's good given I have not worked with Minor Enemies since before your/D-Wrecks' rework.

#

(belated add: I'm happy to get up to speed, but it's a huge set of changes, so I wish to table my absorption of this till late Jan / early Feb)

strange wing
#

Yeah I had a pretty hard time writing a style guide. I started by trying to keep an outline but I realized it was just turning out like, "For the synopsis, put the synopsis, and for story, write the story." I think that might be bc I didn't use the style guides since they were either out-of-date or blank. I've just used a method of copying from an article that looks complete, pasting it in and re-writing the fill in as needed. Along the way I picked up how to code things or make adjustments as needed, but even now when I touch a new category of article I just go to one that looks mostly complete, tidy up anything I can, then copy-fill for articles of the same type which are lacking. My case might be unique since most articles of a given type are woefully incomplete or out of sync and I basically invent the style of organization for that entire category as I go along adding stuff. For the most part I approach the articles of a category chronologically as they appear in game, since I know people tend to work from the beginning so those are the best places to start. But, if I invent a new table or add a new feature, I always go back at the time of creation and add it to the ones that came before- keeping every article from the first I've touched to the most recent that I'm working on in sync.

I know having a reference guide for how things should look is good, but for the life of me I just keep wanting to be like, "copy the code and fill it in" xD

craggy wind
#

Yeah, adopting code from other articles is how I got my start in trying to get things up and running. Sometimes necessary, heh. Going forward we should keep more code snippets in our docs so we have a universal place to pull from, which helps ensure we keep everything modern. We can use templates, but we should keep this stuff in accessible guides so that editors don't have to scan through dozens or hundreds of templates to try and find something that would've taken ten seconds to find in our docs/guides.

#

particularly for new stuff going forward, to be clear.

#

really wish we could just keep everything live-synced with templates, but wikis really don't like it when you do a live template inside of a live template to begin with (and no dynamic # of row/column support for tables as we discussed yesterday-ish)

#

Alternatively, we could make a page or set of pages on the wiki that's solely for editor reference.. but not sure if that's friendlier than maintaining our own collab docs on Google.

#

seeing as we just agreed to nix the old Style Guide page in the Project namespace.

strange wing
#

I think it helps that I've tidied it up so there's not that many uncategorized templates anymore. Honestly I'll probably shorten this list to basically 0 uncategorized templates by just adding a category for "templates for combat abilities" and another for "templates for page layouts."

Yeah I think we should probs just keep the guide in one place- less duplicate editing that way.

image.png image.png
craggy wind
#

Alright, then we should keep going as we are docs-wise. Thanks for your input.

craggy wind
#

Good morning. I see ten edits just for Nest of Dragon. 22 edits on three articles. 🙃

strange wing
#

Mornin'. That was just me correcting the escape chances in the map data. Yeah been busy working on updating location articles

#

Been updating the wiki status article as I go but it's pretty slow going. It takes quite awhile to add map info

#

Today I finished up Fletz, Barrens, Donau, Valley of Corrupted Gravity, Home of Giganto, and Queen Fury. So about 60% through Disc 2's locations.

craggy wind
#

Sounds good. I'll do a smaller amount of edits.

strange wing
#

After ages the Phantom Ship article has been updated

strange wing
#

@craggy wind Saw your note about wanting to check Prison Island's distance geographically before merging with Undersea Cavern. Have you had a chance to form an opinion? I'd like to have consensus on that before I can go further on updating locations since I've been numbering them.

craggy wind
#

I've had the chance to fall asleep without intending to. 😅

craggy wind
#

unlike that one time last year, I won't accidentally take super long to get back to you. That was a record lunchbreak.

#

uh prison island, one moment.

#

Okay so.. we have Suncrest Island (San Cristo?), Prison Island, and an unnamed Island. Technically the latter two are connected but.. I don't see Lidierans jiving with that.

#

UC is within PI, checking script about something.

#

some of the ways locations are nested is very annoying, uck.

strange wing
#

Take your time, I've been doing little else but wiki editing for like, 12 hours today, did it like all day yesterday and... just been doing it alot lol 😅

craggy wind
#

I can tell, you've been swooped up by the mysterious Alot creature.

#

Prison Island is mentioned about half as much as Undersea Cavern.. hmm

#

There's a lot of talk among townsfolk about Prison Island, its legend, the path being closed, Dart needing to go there.. et cetera.

#

You already went through the
Undersea Cavern
with Pete and his ma! Now why don't
ya defeat the Sea Dragon!

#

This seems to imply the Undersea Cavern is just the opening junction, while Prison Island is the fuller area Dart explores without Pete.

#

But what about save titling? Did you notice while running through the maps?

#

I'm loading up the game.

strange wing
#

Plot twist we merge Undersea Cavern with Prison Island instead xD

craggy wind
#

IT GOES DEEPER

strange wing
#

I want to say the game shows a location name in the top left of the menu, and one when you make a save, but they're usually different in little ways than what they're called in the world map (similar level of inconsistency as the goods on pickup vs in inventory)

#

Like I think Fueno is literally written as Feuno in one case xD

craggy wind
#

Map entrypoint: Undersea Cavern. Pete walks straight through with his mom. Whole area is like this. Until you get to the submap with the thunderstorm (pre-Lenus II). Then it switches to Prison Island. Even though the UC is obviously "on" that island. So I think this is just the game's way of saying "you're out of the cavern, now just back on the island's surface" because UC is, well, subterranean.

#

brb I need to hack the boss

#

okay, both the lead-up and post-battle submap are Prison Island.

#

I think we can agree it'd be silly to have a separate article just with a smidge of lore and the boss fight. So... checking something else real quick..

#

crash

#

Yep, that one too

#

Okay, ....uhh...

#

there are a LOT of references to Prison Island.

#

UC is part of Prison Island. But UC is the location name... until the boss area pretty much.

#

There's nothing else in the island besides UC, so far as we're told. It's a really small island anyway.

#

Motion to use one article, named Undersea Prison Island Caverns.

#

I was wrong, UC is almost never named by characters.

#

Puler
The place is called the
Prison Island.
It's a small island surrounded by
rocks located in the center of the
San Christ islands. I heard you
can go through an Undersea Cavern.

#

Please be as mad as I am.

strange wing
#

Yeah I wish things were consistent in LoD, would make our work easier xD
I had that thought earlier as well- I can't recall a single character of note even mentioning the undersea cavern by name- it's always like, "the cave on the way to Fueno"

craggy wind
#

It's only named 2-3 times. The other 118 were just tfz's area titling in the area column.

#

So we have a dumb little situation where UC is the majority of content, but story wise it's all about Prison Island and the boss fight specifically does not take place in the caverns.

strange wing
#

Is it wild that I have only ever thought of the area as UC bc that's what it's called on the world map xD

craggy wind
#

Yes, really throws a wrench in things. Normally we can see an internal area as a sub-area... but Prison Island is very much not a sub-area of UC.

#

I told you there were details afoot!! <_<

#

I'm very mmmmmm about this. I want to have two articles because it'd suck to put the boss in the "caverns" where Regole wouldn't physically fit; the whole place would be destroyed. It also would suck to have Prison Island for lore/boss, and UC for dungeon content and not much else.

#

I need milk.

strange wing
#

Yeah, I could make it so that the first half of undersea caverns is about, well, undersea caverns, and then the second half/bottom section is prison island. That way people would have to go through the undersea caverns to get to prison island- even in article xD It'd sort of be similar to what I did with the submap data in Fletz if you've checked out that article. I'm also thinking of going back and doing that to the previous articles which have sort of nested locations too- what do you think?

craggy wind
#

let me see Fletz.

#

also, this quandary made me do something to let the madness out.

craggy wind
#

madness over, for now.

#

Yeah I mean, we would have separate for tables for things like Castle content, so it's neat and tidy.

#

I think the simplest thing we can do is just have UC article, and note some "Prison Island" things around that somehow.

My gut tells me we should do the inverse. Have a Prison Island article, and just note that most of the explored area is the Undersea Cavern leading up to it. I think that'd make more sense nesting-wise and wouldn't alter any of the story 1 / story 2 content. The synopsis would also be less messy IMO.

#

so I vote for the latter. PI article, with UC as a redirect to PI.

strange wing
#

I agree that it should be only one article, but having UC redirect to PI feels out of chronological order since you need to cross UC to get to PI. It's like if I talked about Black Castle first in the Kazas article, and then was like and also you have to go through Kazas to get here- it makes more sense to me to just describe Kazas first, and then Black Castle. I get where you're coming from about the NPCs practically never referring to UC and only mentioning PI, but I think we should still convey things in order of encountering them. I don't think it'd be messy to write the synopsis with the UC first. I'll give it a try just to see,

"Undersea Cavern is an often flooded cave system of corals that connects to Prison Island, a small landmass consisting mostly of black stone that juts upwards from below the surrounding ocean waves. It is inferable that its connection to the Undersea Cavern becomes submerged at high tide, as massive barnacles can be observed along passage connecting them. Its dark coloration may suggest the island is still being formed from an active magma flow, as the path leading to the center of the island appears to be glass underfoot, and steam is perpetually rising from the surrounding water."

How does that look?

#

You know I've never peeked at the Prima Guide and I've only heard how inaccurate it is so I decided to peek at it on a whim. So incredibly off the wall bad that it becomes comical. Wildly inaccurate, I expected, entirely arbitrary handling- now that's something truly visionary. It starts listing Shana's level up xp values starting from LV 9 onwards, but Albert gets his listed from LV2. Simply divine.

strange wing
#

I will say that the does have some cool artwork I'm not sure I've seen before. Looks like healing breeze/healing fog is literally dispensed from a perfume nozzle which is neat. The other one I'm less sure of but it's like a gauntlet in the shape of a dragon head so I was thinking maybe the Beast Fang for Haschel but it doesn't really have weaponized fangs but it does have a giant green glass orb that could be mind purifier and it'd also be hilarious bc you'd effectively just force this on someone's head and it'd gas them with anti-confusion juice like a helmet of clarity xD

craggy wind
#

You have reminded me that we need to cross-reference the Prima Guide images with the TM illustrations.

#

Does it look like one of these?

image.png
strange wing
#

Nope it looks completely different to these. There were only a few in the prima guide unfortunately. There's the 2 I mentioned near the start along with 2 weapons, and then basically nothing else until the back of the book surprisingly.

craggy wind
#

I can go hunting, though I'd appreciate a picture.

#

yeah their image spread was very random.

strange wing
#

Yeet, will be able to send them tomorrow since I'm in bed atm.

craggy wind
#

I am not waiting that long, you made my brain curious. I'm gonna look right now.

#

Ah, yep.. D-axe on the Hoax page. Why not?

#

@strange wing this?

image.png
#

That's a Power Wrist (+10 AT)

jovial lava
#

Why does it have a tongue?

craggy wind
#

Been wondering that for years. Maybe it's a taxidermy head of an animal.

#

either way, not a Haschel weapon to be clear.

strange wing
#

How'd you figure out it's a power wrist?

craggy wind
#

I'm me, that's how.

#

Remember how I told you that the TM guidebook has illustrations for all equipment and consumables? This is one of the images.

#

it actually further validates the TM guidebook illustrations as official and authentic.

craggy wind
#

added mostly-fine synopsis for Magician Bogy. Possibly other things I forgot to mention from my last wave of edits, all in the Recent Changes with notes appended.

strange wing
#

Do we have an archive of the unique artwork in the TM guidebook outside of the weapons? Might use those for reference some day for drawing new icons.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

Ah, that did get buried.

craggy wind
# strange wing I agree that it should be only one article, but having UC redirect to PI feels o...

I think I can agree enough. The actual island is pretty small. I just want PI to have its own article, as it's a place of importance despite its small area and brief usage in the game. However, I don't think I can justify it - at least for now.

Best way to handle this would be having a subsection under Story 2 that has "Prison Island" heading, indicating that the party has reached the surface and beginning of the actual island before the encounter with Lenus. For the boss snippet, I don't think we need a separate titling just for that in the combat section.

That said, I'm not feeling confident about part of the synopsis you gave as an example. Wikis definitely have some room for theory, but that's an awful lot of theory toward the end. I recommend focusing on certainties.

#

If you don't mind, I'll change PI to a redirect now.

#

I have confirmed there is only placeholder template data. Nothing to xfer

#

WULVES!!!!!

#

You said something about the article being protected. I just now looked at that. I protected it almost exactly one year ago. 🙃

strange wing
#

lmaoooooo I thought that was more recent but I'm still used to 2025 being the current year xD

craggy wind
#

done, redirect is working.

strange wing
#

Sick. Do you want to handle updating and filling in the Undersea Cavern article?

craggy wind
#

Why, so I can work through the pain? 😆

#

Maybe a little bit. I plan to do a bit of work on some location articles; mainly storywriting. However, I have not completed my prior task.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

since the changelog auto-adds "(redirect)" to redirects we create, I am not adding redirect to the reason field for new articles. It's just showing it twice, and I need to save time haha.

#

Everything after the first sentence. We can instead stick to canon information from the script.

strange wing
#

Most of the details I shared are visible in game. Like the barnacles are only seen on the path towards the undersea cavern, and since we know the two are connected and that the undersea cavern is routinely submerged, then the path must get submerged at some point since they are touching. The path Dart walks on has a glassy look to it and there is steam rising all around the island. The only bit of theory is "may suggest the island is still being formed from an active magma flow," but it's a nice way to tie the details of the island being char black, having steam perpetually rising around it, and looking glassy right down the center. There are also pockmarks on the side of the land that I didn't mention, but those have the same look as when bubbles of trapped gas in resin are popped as it cools, making pock marks- which also suggests the exterior of the island was molten at one point. I suppose it would be a bit less theory to have it as, "may suggest the island was likely formed from an active flow as..." instead of actively.

I don't want to omit details simply because they are only portrayed visually rather than included in the script.

craggy wind
#

My point is that I think canonical info should be prioritized over "probably's". Synopses are about much more than just the visuals.

#

if we only have visuals, yeah, we gotta lean on that. This isn't one of those cases to my knowledge.

strange wing
#

I think lore is important too, but I think visual storytelling is equally important especially given the poor translation and prevalence of inconsistencies.

I think I could rewrite the synopsis to,

"Undersea Cavern is an often flooded cave system of corals that connects to Prison Island, a small landmass consisting mostly of black stone that juts upwards from below the surrounding ocean waves. It is inferable that its connection to the Undersea Cavern becomes partially submerged at high tide, as massive barnacles can be observed along passage connecting them. The path leading to the center of the island appears to be glass underfoot, and steam is perpetually rising from the surrounding water."

and it'd be completely factual and the bit about the magma flow could go into trivia. I'm not saying this would be the like, final version, we could always add or inject lore into the synopsis, but I think it's worth having the visual description in there.

craggy wind
#

( I see you're writing awhile. My goal is not to cause you any feelings of defending your word choice. Rather, my goal is to focus on all-around short knowledge for synopses. A bit of visual description, but also story relevance and how the area is introduced to the player - as with all other synopses)

strange wing
#

No worries, I sometimes take a long time rewording my replies for brevity and clarity 💙

craggy wind
#

I'm glad. I wish to provide a gentle reminder that the majority of your synopses is on the visuals and structure. There's no mention of the story context just before / during Dart's arrival, which we have done many times. I'd merely like to stick to our existing trend. Just.. to do what is already well-established in other location synopses.

In an ideal world, yes, I'd love to write about all the details of a location right away. I'd go crazy talking about Duck Planters being all over Serdio, and I wouldn't let anyone stop me. But this is a synopsis, so I must ask that we reel it in. Something like:

Undersea Cavern is a flooded cave system of corals. The entrance connects Lidiera to Fueno, and the deeper caves lead to Prison Island where it is rumored that there's a large sea monster. Dart and company speak with the Mayor of Lidiera seeking passage into the caverns.

#

With something like that, there would still be room for a proper visual description in Story1/2.

strange wing
#

That sounds totally good to me, I kinda forgot about including story in the synopsis bc the story section is right next to it so I automatically was like, "story section go there, everything else goes up here". I think I was partially still focused on least spoiler content first as well, so a fully physical description would be completely spoiler free for the most part compared to any form of lore.

craggy wind
#

Yeah, that is a truth haha. But we need to try and tie the location to the story a bit, as the "lead-in" if you will.

#

Thanks for hearing me out.

#

we should make a "Places of Endiness" book or something, so we can go wild with that focus. A hybrid text / visual book describing places; sans most of the Dart-y context.

#

or a visual novel we publish as a Youtube video.

strange wing
#

"Endiness Everywhere"
And it's just every single place no matter how small or mentioned xD

"And here we have one of the Dev's houses, unfortuantely they were very loud and rude when we slid in through the shower drain, so now we've tied them to a chair. Unrelated: keep an eye out for a new Dev interview coming soon(tm)"

craggy wind
#

Excellent. I call dibs on ranting about duck planters so hard, it makes the talkative femme in Lidiera look terse.

#

I'm done with some RL interruptions, so I'm gonna hop on voice while I do more wiki tasks. Company welcome but not required, as always. Also, pizza and milk. 🍕 🥛

strange wing
#

Meant to say earlier but I've done every location for disc 2 except Undersea Cavern. For disc 3 I've done Furni and just did an update on Evergreen Forest.

craggy wind
#

You know what's gonna be great about me getting through this infernal task with the redirects?

strange wing
#

The wiki will breathe a bit better?

craggy wind
#

I sure hope the wiki can't breathe. Unless we're talking about me instead. 😅

#

No, like.. the Wanted Pages list will shorten a lot. It's already down from ~210 to ~180. That's just from consumables. It'll go down a bit more after I do Equipment redirects.

#

After Equipment, I'll probably do a quick pass on the Wanted list. Some of it is just bad wants like misspelled Fruegel, LLoyd with two uppercase L's, and "dragooni flower".

strange wing
#

Oh that's dope- then we can get a good idea of what's actually missing entirely. Although some of the created articles are still skeletons of what they should be

craggy wind
#

Yeah, but that's no issue to track down. Very easy for me.

#

Remember how I didn't want to make all the new redirects until I did a scan of "all pages" ?

#

I only skipped articles that were locations or enemies. Everything else was checked. So, anything that's an old format or bare skeleton would be exclusive to that sector of the wiki (sans human error, but I was pretty thorough).

#

AFAIK you've been combing through to modernize all Minor Enemies, so those should be accounted for. You're going through locations now, and I'll be looking at them as well. That just leaves bosses and hybrid articles. So, I think we're getting close to having all "old/barebones" articles phased out. :)

Edit to add: I will be handling Lore articles as well.

strange wing
#

I know I've fleshed out are all enemies including bosses and rare monsters, and the overview pages for those (Minor Enemies, Rare Monsters, etc.) Currently I'm working through the locations but most of what I'm doing is technical information. If there's story already there I'll edit it, but if I had to fill in all the missing story and synopses it'd add another hour or so per article- and it already takes about an hour as is. I might write some eventually, but for right now I'm just getting the technical half up and running

craggy wind
#

I'm not meaning to refer to that. I'm talking about old formats and skeleton articles, in reply to what you were saying. You will not do all the content yourself, or I will ban you the way I banned Char that one time for overdoing it. :)

#

(in the frame of modernizing/synchronizing, not content fill)

#

I hope that is clear now.

strange wing
#

Oh I get it, like the Ghost Knight article I turned into a redirect the other day. I'm not sure I could do it all myself even if I wanted to xD

Trying to follow along, do you mean like they were editing too many articles a day or something?

craggy wind
#

Char went way overboard with translation progress some years ago.

strange wing
#

Like too many pages a day? Not sure what too much looks like, ruff has never seen it, show it to ruff, it's bound to be some rough stuff, ruff

craggy wind
#

Remember: the priority is to get more wiki editors, rather than do a massive share of the work. Share, and the wiki will be much better than any one person could write it. The only reason you're getting away with it is that you are mostly self-wrangling. But I'm starting to have to intervene, lol.

#

Let's keep cleaning things up, so it'll be in a great state for newcomers who should be arriving soon. 👀

strange wing
#

Makes sense, I do a lot when I've got the juice for it, but then I take big breaks, so it sorta balances out. I don't want to just stamp my name on it, more help is always appreciated, but we've just not had anyone really up to the bat since I started helping out back in June.

craggy wind
#

Mhmm, we've gone over that before.

#

By the way, are we sure the Violet DS doesn't get an "Acquired" name? I am gonna skim the script.

#

maybe he does just say "the question is answered" and it's a fade-out..

#

thanks game. Ugh. It doesn't have one.

strange wing
#

Yeeeep 🙃

craggy wind
#

Thankfully we have inconsistent terminology that I can use as a basis!!

#

I'm halfway through the Goods list.

craggy wind
#

Side note: Going with a grouped article for the DMOs. Would love to do separate articles, but each one would be pretty thin. We can merely have headings for all three surviving DMOs, and create three matching redirects. Sound good?

strange wing
#

Sounds good to me, we'd be able to add what little we know about the two we never see in game as well

craggy wind
#

Same thought

#

Since Dragon Block Staff and Dragon Blocker have the same starting letters, I'm thinking of omitting Dragon Blocker entirely. Dragon Block Staff will be already coming up in the search bar.

#

I vastly underestimated how many redirects we would end up going with on this wiki. 🥴

#

huff huff... goods... huff.. complete.

#

Obviously the wiki is predominantly about page content, but this work will be great for ensuring our search box gets people to the right page quickly and conveniently.

strange wing
#

Nice! Yeah we wouldn't need so many if the search bar was smarter than "exact match or perish" but that's a bit beyond my ability to code. I recall you trying to parse something that would basically be installing modules/additions to the wiki code but made by others as open source -gadgets I think? I'd offer to tackle it myself, but I recall the source code of the wiki is locked to one account or something along those lines where it basically has to be you doing it. I remember at the time I was suggesting it for sticky headers, and was trying to help with the error codes you were getting by suggesting some trouble shooting and work arounds. If you're feeling up to it you could give it another shot and if that works out we could look and see if someone has a better search function that's open source.

craggy wind
#

lmao perish

#

I could make you an admin for that but it really should be done by someone who actually has skill/experience. And it's not that bad - I already got items and goods completed. Gear will take longer, but worth it. I'm still open to extensions/gadgets/plugins, but right now we are doing okay with the redirects. I'd like to see it through to the end.

#

Frankly I'm enjoying "feeling" the progress with each entry I make. And, doing all that searching and troubleshooting could easily take longer than doing it this way. technically I'm saving time. 😉

#

(though for any really long tasks, yes, automation may be preferable when it's an option)

thorn ruin
#

Family friendly server, don't talk about feeling your entries

strange wing
#

Fair- maybe Monoxide could be bribed- SPEAK OF THE DEVIL

craggy wind
#

okay Mr. gooning

strange wing
#

Monoxide how many McDonalds chicken nuggets do you need to ensmarten our search bar?

craggy wind
#

Wulves pls.

thorn ruin
#

I don't think the search bar is big on chicken nuggets

craggy wind
#

Being serious, what would we actually use it for atm? Since I'm covering the inventory groups, what things would be left to cover?

thorn ruin
#

What's the issue with the serach bar?

craggy wind
#

It's a pedantic butthole. Sometimes.

strange wing
#

Honestly I'd imagine just so that it could understand typos or incomplete searches a bit better

craggy wind
#

(Wulves take over, I gotta drive anyway)

strange wing
#

For example

#

If you search "marsh" almost nothing comes up- but if you search "marshland" you get the location, the enemies related to it, etc.

thorn ruin
#

I'm sure there's either a built in fuzzy search or a plugin you could use for it

craggy wind
#

Lmao one option is Open Search, from the Linux foundation, written in Java.

#

I flee now.

strange wing
# thorn ruin I'm sure there's either a built in fuzzy search or a plugin you could use for it

Yeah we were discussing adding gadgets- mediawiki's term for plugin baiscally- but in the past Drew had a hard time getting them installed. I offered to do it, but they said we should really get someone who knows more about what they're doing before giving them Admin access, and that's when you popped up in my head as someone versed in code. Hilariously that was also when you popped up in convo too xD

thorn ruin
#

Shouldn't be too hard getting it working

#

It sounds like opensearch is supported by default in mediawiki

strange wing
#

Hype! Drew's the only one who can give you admin access, so we'll find out more once they get back from driving. If you can get gadgets working we could finally have a better search bar and sticky headers 🥳 Who knows what other useful gadgets we could add, it'll be great 😁

Yeah I think gadgets are also supposed to be supported by default as well but my memory's a little fuzzy- we were last looking into this back in early August I think?

thorn ruin
#

I have root server access, I can do whatever I want 😉

craggy wind
#

but these look straightforward.

#

looks like ExtendedSearch has fuzzy option. Very cool.

strange wing
craggy wind
strange wing
#

It was this message

craggy wind
#

kk

#

oh no you reactivated the trauma my brain deleted for my sanity.

#

Why did you do that!?

strange wing
#

Gadgets DSJade👄DSJade Shiny

craggy wind
#

that was some accursed Mr. Magi-tier research.

#

Yeah I'm unavailable for that specific project in particular. 🤣

craggy wind
#

Alright, my wiki mission for the day: equipment redirects.

#

And a quick pass on the Wanted list.

craggy wind
#

side note: incorprate non-max level data for addies on the Addition article, in a way that makes sense. Can't put it all in one table, but many tables greatly magnify page length. Smart nesting of some kind will be key.

#

starting now while I preheat the oven for some breakfast.

craggy wind
#

Drew - make custom article type for Dragon Buster.

craggy wind
#

amended some anchor IDs on the Equipment article. Our convention is no spaces or punctuation, but a few apostrophes and hyphens got in there.

#

The article is also missing an anchor for Giganto Ring. Fixing now.

#

Equipment updated with misc. fixes. Since some anchor links were fixed to match convention, I went through all articles calling these anchors and updated them (that I could find).

#

All equipment, goods, and consumables now have redirects established for Search convenience. Our list of Wanted Articles has dropped from ~210 to 125. That's big progress! I'll review the remaining list later today. Maybe I can get it below 108.

#

(exception for Dragon Buster. I will create a standalone article for that later today)

strange wing
#

Not sure if I mentioned doing all of these here yet but just to be safe: Fueno, Furni, Evergreen Forest, Deningrad, Neet, Wingly Forest, Kadessa, and Mountain of Mortal Dragon have all been updated.
+Added next and previous maps, all submaps, enemies, enemy formations and chances.
+Fixed formatting to be uniform for infobox, stardust, goods, treasure chests, and categories.
+Fixed hyperlinks here and there

craggy wind
#

I'll be back soon. Was hoping to get to the wanted list before you fixed any links haha. Ah well.

#

I can subtract the difference

strange wing
#

It's mostly just punctuation in embed links, like [[Items#dancer'sshoes|Dancer's Shoes]]

craggy wind
#

I have returned, with a fresh physical injury!! Ready to write.

craggy wind
strange wing
craggy wind
#

Okay, that's what I was hoping.

#

To compensate for hurting my foot, I am eating peanut butter toast. It's delicious!

#

The wanted list didn't decrease in size... how??

craggy wind
#

I changed a few Dancer's Ring anchor links myself, so I wonder if you caught one before I did my morning sweep. I don't see this change in your last few edits (after my sweep).

craggy wind
#

Ah, Prince Dole strikes again.

#

Also, Dart's page is a disaster. These PC articles will definitely have major revisions ahead. ruff

#

On Lavitz' page... his name is almost always spelled Lavtiz instead. I ran out of will to correct them all. There must have been a hundred of them! aYaaaaa

#

I'm supposed to be correcting links, and got sucked into fixing other aspects. I'm drawing a boundary!! Focus Drew!!

thorn ruin
#

Fortunately we as a society have created find & replace

craggy wind
#

In my dismay I forgot all about that. :3

#

Thank you, have a Doel Premium Banana. 🍌

jovial lava
#

So much work when you could have asked chatgpt to do it instead

#

Then you could have just typed "find and replace all instances of 'Lavtiz' with 'Lavitz'" instead of all that cumbersome ctrl+r and typing just those 2 words

craggy wind
#

I picked a random amount of broken links to fix in the first batch, and we're left with exactly 108 different Wanted pages. I see you, Soa. 👀

thorn ruin
strange wing
craggy wind
#

Gotcha. Well, the source IDs were still borked in that case, as I fixed them this morning.

#

SorryNotSorry for flooding Recent Changes. A temporary necessity.

strange wing
#

No worries, usually I'm the one flooding it xD

craggy wind
#

Well now it's a two-way flood. Whatever that means.

#

🎵 I crash into you, you crash into me 🎵
🎵 But there's no debriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis 🎵
(dramatic rolling of the vowel for ten seconds)

strange wing
#

+Overhauled Kashua Glacier

strange wing
#

+Overhauled Flanvel Tower

strange wing
#

+Overhauled Snowfield

Regarding Fort Magrad, I'm for merging it and turning into a redirect in this case as the random encounter spread is the same and the content of Snowfield/Fort Magrad would be incredibly brief for both if separated. Thoughts?

craggy wind
#

I think it's the right move with our current system. I'll tailor the subheading for Fort Magrad tomorrow, to see how it fits.

strange wing
#

Mystery solved it was me who penned that. When I saw the coordinates system for the Death Frontier I remembered that I was the one who created the "specific area" section and filled it out xD

strange wing
#

+Merged Fort Magrad synopsis with Snowfield article and turned the former into a redirect to the latter.
+Partial overhaul of Vellweb

#

Some fun trivia: Disc 3 is the first disc where encounter formations begin to have a pattern where certain submaps have identical formations and chances. This may be from map volume, as Kadessa, Mountain of Mortal Dragon, and Vellweb each have 13 submaps where random encounters can occur- the most of any location aside from the Moon, and all 3 of these locations have noticeable patterns. (albeit Mountain of Mortal Dragon has slight inconsistencies in its pattern.) However these patterns are also seen in Mayfil, Aglis (with the same inconsistencies as MoMD,) and Divine Tree, which have submaps with random encounters as low as 9.

craggy wind
#

I think the best thing we can do, as I noted in the test lobby, is stick to Get during normal gameplay. Those will all be "used". After finishing the game, can go back and look at which maps were not called by normal gameplay.

strange wing
#

Yeah that's what I've been doing- partially so the submaps can appear in order of appearance since we don't have that anywhere I know of. It also helps verify the doc, and so far there's only been two hiccups.

craggy wind
#

Indeed, good thinking.

#

One of the things I often wondered about, were for this very thing. Which ones are called? Which ones are not, and for which reason?

strange wing
#

Right? I'm still so curious about the ones that aren't used and just crash SC when warping to them.

craggy wind
#

Yeah. Naturally it can be "leftovers" that weren't fully zeroed-out (as with minor mobs), but still.

thorn ruin
#

It's probably easy to figure out whatever is causing the maps to crash

strange wing
thorn ruin
#

Give me a stack trace

strange wing
#

Let's see, the first 2 submaps that aren't used don't technically crash- they just turn the screen black but you can still warp out of them. Here's two logs for those kind

📎 Submap_55.txt 📎 Submap_59.txt
#

Actually for that second one (59) warping out does crash the game.

#

I'm, actually having a hard time finding one that crashes outright.

#

I'm pretty sure some of these once caused a crash when loaded, but that might have been fixed incidentally by now

thorn ruin
strange wing
#

No clue what that means 😅

strange wing
#

+Added a table to Status Ailment and cleaned up some syntax

craggy wind
#

the hierarchy we didn't append yet?

strange wing
craggy wind
#

Okay. I may make minor tweaks but it looks great, ty.

strange wing
#

+Finished overhauling Vellweb

#

All disc 3 locations updated 🥳

craggy wind
#

Well done!~ I'll be catching up after some other LoD business.

#

maybe a few small edits to kick off the day.

strange wing
#

Oh yeah I left a note in reply here but I'm not sure if you saw

image.png
#

+Added the note for Boss Extras for enemies players would expect but are not listed due to being Minor Enemies

#

+Undeleted the repeat items article and turned it into a redirect to Items#Repeat Items

craggy wind
#

Hrm, am I on the left? xD

#

thanks for making those two changes!!

#

Yeah, the trivia can just be on the specific OOP article. I don't remember what my point would've been otherwise.

#

Should we do a 00 (double-zero) article name as a redirect?

#

given so many players see/write it that way.

craggy wind
#

I'll take care of it tonight.

strange wing
#

I think a redirect would be fine since it can't hurt

strange wing
#

+Tidied up the Wiki Article Status spreadsheet to get a better overview of where we stand and to deal with some duplicate entrees.

There are roughly 7 article types on the wiki: Enemy, Location, Collectible, Mechanic, Character, Lore, and Meta. I could not find an article that didn't fit into one of those, but let me know if one comes to mind. There's now a tab for these that gives a summary based on the collective progress of all articles under a given type.

From there, some article types have categories or group pages. For example Enemy articles have the Rare Monsters page, the Minor Enemies page, etc. and Location Articles simply have Locations. Some are missing atm, like there's no category for Mechanics articles. Others are under progress like Goods potentially being a category for the items getting their own pages for lore (Dragon Block Staff, etc.). The Groups/Mechs tab I renamed for clarity to Article Group Pages and shows how these individual pages are doing.

Then the break down becomes a bit obvious, Enemies tab has the enemy articles (or it will, right now I've only included the ones you mentioned for the moment as there's so many to add lol) Locations tab has the location articles. Likewise for Collectibles, Mechanics, Player Characters, NPCs, Lore, and Meta.

Obviously some overlap is going to happen- most of the bosses are rich in lore, as are many locations, not to mention characters. Since lore is inherent in most other articles, many entrees that were duplicated under Lore have been moved over (Hooded Man, Soa, Dragoons, Dragon Spirits, Endiness, etc.) to one of the other categories as appropriate. There are a handful left that didn't move though, like the Dragon Campaign doesn't feel like it'd cleanly divide into any other category. Similarly, Dimensions feels like it might be appropriate for Locations, and Moon Child might be appropriate for NPCs, but both didn't feel as obviously clean cut to me. The last article under lore is the Merchant Guild, which is on pause on whether it should exist. On that topic, I think it should just get absorbed into the Lohan page.

craggy wind
#

I'm potentially confused (how's that for a sentence!?). In an effort to find clarity: are you counting one-offs for those seven article types?

strange wing
#

What do you mean by a one-off?

craggy wind
#

To my knowledge, the base article "types" we have are Enemy (minor/boss), Location, Lore-based (lots of overlap here), and Player Characters. If you're not talking about templates / style guides, then yes there are others, but we definitely don't have an article type for collectibles. All collectibles are only listed in groups, via a table on another article or in their own compilation article (hence the redirects). There will be a few articles covering mechanics and some other things, but those aren't really in place yet for the most part. I'm guessing you are talking about total types whereas I'm thinking about style guides and groups, ish.

#

brb late lunch.

strange wing
#

Yeah that sounds about right to me, enjoy your lunch I'm hopefully about to have my own soonish

craggy wind
#

Okay, so we're on the same page? I don't want to see any "collectible" articles after doing all that work wrt the redirects.

#

🙃

strange wing
#

Yeah we're on the same page, only collectible articles would be the ones you're already aware of (Dragon Block Staff, Dragon Buster, etc.)

#

I want to delete the 'Party' article and just have the Playable Characters category instead. The content on that article is too opinionated to be kept.

craggy wind
#

Ahhh, I see where the hang-up is. I consider those "lore-based" since it's the only sane catch-all we have atm (any noun that is majority lore content).

#

same page for sure, thank you.

#

The party article probably shouldn't have been created, along with the concept of "allies". Almost no one is really an "ally" of the party; it's just the independent countries and their people.

#

I'm considering an edit for Boss Extras. Near the end of the main paragraph, I want to make a note about the other instant-death effects right after the mention of Total Vanishing (as they share the flag).

#

Hoping to do so tonight.

craggy wind
#

@strange wing Wondering if you wrote the italicized lines on the Boss Extras article.

If so, did you put them below the synopsis because putting them before the synopsis broke hover text for the Boss Extras article? Or untested? Normally the "See other articles" disambig warning goes up top, but if it's breaking the hover preview then never mind.

#

made a conservative edit wrangling the sources of instant death alongside Total Vanishing.

strange wing
#

I wrote them yeah, not sure if it breaks the hover preview or not I'm pretty sure I was just duplicating the format that was already there between Minor Enemies and Bosses at the time.

craggy wind
#

small note that a short radio list might do for the ones that don't have general immunity.

#

okay. It's worth trying to put it above synopses and test. If it works, keep it (good convention from wikipedia/elsewhere). If not, I bet we can find a solution that other wikis would be using.

strange wing
#

Looks good to me, nice addition :3
I added more notes for various articles in the Wiki Article Status Spreadsheet (Gonna just refer to this as WASS from now on bc it's so long) mostly just jotting down more things that I can see need doing for various ones and updating the completion% on a rough estimate.

craggy wind
#

I'm glad, because after a rough last few days the only sanity I've managed is this small edit. You can see me spiraling in general chat lmao.

#

Wiki Article Status Sheet? WASS that?

#

stop enabling me.

strange wing
craggy wind
#

I haven't updated WASS yet, but I plan to.

strange wing
#

Disables

craggy wind
#

wrong item, you need Magic Sig Stone of Signet.

strange wing
#

You right xD

craggy wind
strange wing
#

I saw Statistics on the special pages and it appears that 4,509 edits have been made to the wiki since it was made. I checked my contributions section and with some finagling found out I've made 1,471 edits to the wiki, meaning almost a third of the wiki's edits have come from me which is wild to think about. Having started in August, that's about 9 edits a day for nearly half a year. Stepping back and seeing just how much I was able to accomplish, I'm feeling pretty proud. Verifying and archiving all the cool details about this game was a huge part of that but there are a few moments that stick out as especially big accomplishments. From working out things like removing an extra layer of translation for understanding how Counterattack Opportunities occur to manually mapping out what spawns can occur on the World Map (and all the wild complexity that something that sounds so simple brought.)

Even before the wiki, I mapped out the behavior doc and verified the whole thing in retail. I greatly expanded and organized our documentation on damage formulas, even filling in some that were unaccounted for. I worked out some of the last unaccounted for enemy entrees in the internal doc. I organized and filled out the spreadsheet covering enemy movesets and their probabilities and discovered some potentially broken tables (still waiting to hear back on that, the issue is logged in SC.) And it all started when I tested the absolute hell out of Disc 2 to the point where jokes were being made and even one amazing meme which I still treasure fondly. Now I'm creating pixel art, testing custom mods, who knows what's next? So I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has worked on keeping LoD alive, without your efforts I would never have gotten to join you all on the journey and really feel like a part of the community.

Oops! I have become too mushy! I didn't intend to write this but it kinda spilled out after discovering the tidbit about statistics. I thought about posting it somewhere other than the wiki section since it's a big heartfelt self reflection but I'm honestly too tired to bother lol. We can move it later if we really want xD

craggy wind
#

lol blog? xD

#

welcome to being a multifaceted contributor. I can attest to what a wild and fulfilling ride it can be.

#

P.S. start a blog. We need more LoD bloggers besides just me. Plenty of goings-on worth writing about, be it your own involvement or your observations of the community in general.

strange wing
#

+Overhauled Death Frontier

craggy wind
#

added trivia for OOPARTS

#

I'm planning to do a little bit more, but only that much since I need to focus on a new video for our Youtube channel.

strange wing
#

+Added all enemy article entrees to WASS and included notes for all of them.
+Added user list under meta.
+Added totals under enemies and locations for unique articles (189 for enemies, 46 for locations)

strange wing
#

Is Will-o'-Wisp's model not a recolor of Volcano Ball?

craggy wind
#

No, they're not the same.

#

It's possible that the flame effects are similar, but the main "body" is quite different.

#

The Wisps are round, comprising an eye with an opening-and-closing eyelid. The Volcano balls are a non-round lump of rock, with no eye or eyelid.

#

if that isn't both clear and comical, I don't know what is.

strange wing
#

The top ones just have their eyes closed :3

craggy wind
#

No.

strange wing
#

+Formatting updates, general fixes like hyperlinks, added enemies and map info skeletons for Ulara, Rouge, Aglis, Zenebatos, Mayfil, Divine Tree, and Moon That Never Sets.

craggy wind
#

Very good. Note that I want to check some things before we rove into any more big wiki stuffs. I think if you and I focus on a few smaller meta items, we can help make the wiki more appealing in general.

strange wing
#

I've been updating the WASS overtime and including more information there which will help get an overview of what all's left and help keep us informed for how big changes would affect things. I've got a few ideas I wanna run by you as well.

craggy wind
#

Okay. After the weekend let's do that.

thorn ruin
strange wing
#

I'll grab those logs at some point, but might be leaning into a break from the wiki atm.

I've filled the WASS pretty extensively with notes for various articles, and added a section for suggestions/issues for future reference while everything is still fresh in my mind. As long as updates/changes to wiki pages are likewise updated in the WASS, it will be considered perpetually up to date so we don't need to make another one from scratch in the future.

craggy wind
#

Damn, so you won't meet me for the next phase?

strange wing
#

I'm still down to meet up for that whenever you're free, I've just noted everything down so I don't forget anything.

craggy wind
#

That's a horrible typo, I apologize.

#

I will reach out tomorrow.

craggy wind
#

Possible error in Hellena Prison encounter table. Encounter 483 is listed in the First Visit table, but the stats of these units indicaate they could only be for Second Visit. For example, 483's Senior Warden has 150 HP, which would be absurd for a level 3-5 party (Fruegel I is only 90 HP).

strange wing
#

Mmm, I see the issue is that the first table is labelled as First Visit which isn't clear enough. It's referring to just submaps that can be visited on first visit, not meaning to imply that the encounters are first visit only. This is probably a problem unique to Hellena since it's one of the only ones we visit twice with different encounters each time. I'll include a notice within the encounter formations for which are accessible at different points and that should clear it up

strange wing
#

Added as a to do for Hellena Prison in the WASS

craggy wind
#

Hi @strange wing . Do you recall us talking about problems regarding how to document people and places that are worth a mention, but not to the extent of a dedicated article? I'm not sure if I dreamed that I made a proposal we were gonna try out. The proposal was something about "notable people/places/items" as a new section header or perhaps a sub-section.

#

I was thinking about topics like Dran and Moot. Maybe little "blurb" descriptions that go above/below Story1&2

strange wing
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Iirc we talked about something similar where dialogue from random unnamed NPCs added to a location's lore but wasn't directly related to the story beats so it wouldn't fit neatly in synopsis, story 1, or story 2. I think we said there could be an additional section after story 2 for Lore. Pretty sure the exact details for it is saved in the WASS as an approved suggestion.

craggy wind
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Okay, thank you. I'm untangling more old messes. 😉

strange wing
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+Finished adding maps, encounters, and various tweaks and fixes to Ulara, Rouge, Aglis, Zenebatos, Mayfil, and the Divine Tree.
+Added maps to the Moon, but the encounters section is going to take a long time bc its nowhere near as streamlined as the rest of the game. (Like why did the devs need three different IDs used for a solo Unicorn encounter??? and there's a bunch of similar cases in this section for the other enemies too notlikethis)

strange wing
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+Added encounter data to the Moon, some missing enemy previews, and some trivia.

strange wing
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+Rewrote and restructured the Endiness article. Actually had to do quite a bit of research for this one.

craggy wind
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Oh, good morning!

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I like that you realized the first part was getting too meaty. We need the synopsis to show the primary info first. I recommend we move all the land names and summaries to a second paragraph. It'd help flesh out the article IMO. Maybe after History in a section called "Present-Day" ?

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We can also note that Endiness was populated by Soa as part of his will (the Divine Tree, et al). Proooossably the first paragraph/synopsis.

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It will be beautifully bothersome to distinguish Gloriano and Death Frontier (formerly Gloriano) when we edit related articles. 🫠

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We "could" mention that it's implied Dart spent part of his revenge journey in Nissel or Seilnder, based on his approaching direction from wmap (that little road segment we normally can't access). Would have to see whether it's definitively one region or an "it could be either one" thing.

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Hmm.. could also note Gorgaga being from the east; perhaps under Trivia.

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The history section is pretty good. I only have one note.

I believe your mention of the cause of the Death Frontier is more of a half-truth. IIRC, the story confirms that terrain goes "bad news bears" whenever substantial magic is used in general. In other words, Dragoons and Dragons are also to blame for anything from climate change to gravity distortions to outright glassed regions. Obvs the Liberation Army were fighting for survival and couldn't know long-term effects, but they are nonetheless a part of the outcome.

Example from in-game, Chapter 2, confirming the impact on gravity and nature.

Rose
It still has the backwash from
the Dragon Campaign.
The collision of the magic power
of the Dragoons and Winglies can
distort nature quite a bit.

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I know there's a line from one of the Fletz soldiers suggesting otherwise, but the hearsay on his part would not be as authoritative as Rose's first-hand account.

strange wing
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+Added the pre-wingly history.
+Expanded the cause as being from the war (looked through the jp guidebook and it affirms this so I left a reference to it which always feels good)
+Expanded the history section to have different time periods

I would give summaries for each of the territories, but it'd basically be identical to just hovering over the links so it doesn't feel like there's much point. I did entertain the idea of just merging all the territory articles into the Endiness article and leaving embed redirects, but some like Death Frontier are so robust that doing so would make the article a bit too expansive lol.

I like the idea but yeah it would need more investigation to know which one for sure.

craggy wind
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I can understand the mouseover redundancy, but I'd note it's easy for someone to miss the feature if they're used to clicking links fast. I'd also note this isn't a feature on Fandom, which is a main source for many wiki-goers.

Either way, I'd like to write the expansion for that. I believe the Endiness article should serve summaries of each country, while the country articles go into more specifics like their towns/dungeons/local issues. I think I can do it in such a way you'd like the changes.

I'm really liking the revision - breaking up the history into a few periods is helpful for conveying what happened to Endiness over time as a landmass and in terms of species / territories.

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I vote to keep the country articles - they're a great in-between catcher IMO.

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For the other matter, it appears Dart is coming from the southwest border of Seilnder. However, again, this is an implication. For all we know he was coming from Nissel up into Seilnder a little bit just for an easier terrain path. Second, the player never gets to use that path themselves.

image.png
strange wing
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Sounds good to me, looking forward to what you make. I'm currently overhauling the Serdio article and probably just gonna go down the list of territories in order.

Yeah, I think the best we could do with that is just keep it ambiguous like saying he came from the east.

Unrelated, but I have noticed that the in game map also does have some hiccups sometimes. I thought you'd find this one fun. When entering Kashua Glacier from Mille Seseau, a body of water can be seen very close to it. However when exiting Kashua Glacier into Gloriano, that section is erroneously colored like snowy flatlands.

Location_Descrepancy.png
craggy wind
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Ambiguous is plenty fair, yeah.

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Ah yes, the terrain inconsistencies. Nothing to get upset about here... aYaaaaa

thorn ruin
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Yeah you can't line up the different wmap models

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I tried

craggy wind
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For the most part the overall geography is consistent, but the connecting edges are gonna make you freak. :)

thorn ruin
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btw wulves I saw your message about the dumps, pester me about it in a week

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I'm starting a private test this weekend and working on a secret project

craggy wind
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it's even more fun when you line up the regional sections with the "complete" 3D model used in Chapter 4 (used for warps between Wingly cities).

strange wing
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@craggy wind do you have a source on this bit of trivia? I searched the game scripts and neither Seldio nor Seludio appear once. I'm not sure what reference material is being referred to here either. There is a typo in game manual that the game shipped with, but it's Serdia, and I didn't see another one.

image.png
craggy wind
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Serdia? I don't recall that one, heh.

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This seems to be included in my initial creation of the page. I can verify off-hand that Seldio is displayed on the cover of the short novel.

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IDR Seludio, but Saludio is from the high-res worldmap.

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part of the wider spelling discrepancies, i.e. Frettz

strange wing
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What's the high-res worldmap from? I thought it was for a version of the game that used a different language so had different localization considering how many are spelled differently. Also things being so different that I don't think a typo is possible, like "Northern Serdio" is listed as "Virgil"

craggy wind
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Not at all, that sort of thing is virtually never done with console games (even today).

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There are no known publications of the map in the original Japanese, probably to excite the players with English (as done with the in-game voiceovers).

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the worldmap was distributed online near the game's release. The original breadcrumbs are probably long-gone. There are two versions, one in much wider circulation.

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One of them was traced back to one of the press kits in high resolution. I don't remember if it's the LoD bonus disc, the E3 disc, or the ECTS disc.

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The high-res TIF is in the EU press disc.

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the other one, never found the OG render.

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Is this enough verification? 😛

strange wing
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Okay so if I'm following you, then the high res map was most likely made before the version we see in game, so that's why a bunch of the names aren't in sync?

craggy wind
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I'm saying two versions were made, for whatever reason, and we only have a high-res copy of one. We don't have original seeding dates on either one, save for the press kit, but that was just the game's EU release. That version could've been seeded online ahead of time.

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Too many portions of the original breadcrumbs are now missing, to make a clear picture.