#Will of the Many/Strength of the Few

1463 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

solemn ore
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Same tags ||The whole insulting Dultatis to his face behind a language barrier conversation is hilarious||

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XXXVI ||I have such a hard time trusting that Veridius is an antagonist when he's such a genuinely nice guy, but now I can remind myself he knows what's going on inside those ruins. Might even be complicit. It's still a strange dichotomy. Horrifying stuff happening below the surface, but such a kindly demeanor we see.||

solemn ore
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WotM XXXVII ||Dang, Vis really be getting that Harry Potter treatment. A celebrity everywhere he goes.||

solemn ore
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XXXVII ||Sedotia is Relucia?! Relucia is Sedotia?!||

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||How does Islington keep getting away with the "X is really Y" shtick every time?!||

limber badger
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Hierarchy book 3 title was announced!

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It's called ||The Justice of One||

wanton cargo
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Ooooo I like that 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

boreal summit
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One scene I really hope to see in book 3 is (SotF spoilers) ||Vis telling the princepts of Governance and Religion that Ka is no longer Synchronous because he killed him in Obiteum, so they'll have to cede to him instead||

onyx otter
boreal summit
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||The BLANK of None||

pure eagle
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||Personally, I think he'll subvert it and go for The <word> of All||

boreal summit
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That DOES seem likely

onyx otter
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||or maybe we get even more specific without going 0. Last book is called "The Will of Steve". Who is Steve? just some guy||

swift ember
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Meanwhile I thought piranesi was great, WoTM was just okay, and SoTF was a big improvement on WoTM

swift ember
swift ember
honest sandal
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Finally free and willing to read again!

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Sotf LV ||That was a pretty insane chapter.||

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Sotf upto LV ||Res Vis is probably my favourite pov again, Luc Vis following close behind and Ob Vis stays the eternal third.||

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||Luc Vis is probably going to barely meet his dad again before he dies in a very avoidable way, because that's how tropes go, but I hope that won't be the case. The important character close to mc fake dying and then meeting MC much later and dying right after almost never works for me.||

solemn ore
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I finished part 2 of Will of the Many. 30% more of the book to go!

rapid wharf
solemn ore
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Imo, the end of Part 1 is where things suddenly get very interestingly intense, and then part 2 kind of slows down again but certainly has its fair share of big moments that keep the story interesting.

rapid wharf
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There’s enough happening to keep me turning pages, but it won’t be something I recommend to friends

cunning fog
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Guess who now owns sotf 🤭

wanton cargo
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haaaaaze!!!! XD

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So happy you're in containment with us!

cunning fog
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I have a few books to choose between for my next read but there's a good chance it'll be sotf 👀

wanton cargo
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Can confirm sotf is a great time

limber badger
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yes

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You should react here often so that Argent doesn't close this channel!

cunning fog
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😂 I will keep the chat alive

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Question is: can sotf tempt me away from malazan xD

wanton cargo
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To spite ducky?? Yes absolutely 🥰

cunning fog
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wha what did duck do?

wanton cargo
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nothing

Everything, the important thing is you pick my hyperfixation 🥰

limber badger
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I had the weirdest dream of James Islington himself being in the 17th Shard and chatting

solemn ore
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WotM LXV (65) ||I'm so close to the end of the book. In the middle of the Indicium. Needless to say, I've fully abandoned that Vis x Aequa ship. Kicking myself for even thinking that in the first place. Visemissa all the way.||

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||But also, goated move of Aequa to not actually betray Vis and Callidus like that.||

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||Oh, and screw Iro.||

solemn ore
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I just finished The Will of the Many

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WotM All ||What was that?! What the heck was that?! The ending just changed everything, answered almost nothing, and opened up a whole new world of questions. Or is it two new worlds of questions?||

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||From what I can gather here, Obiteum and Luceum are different... worlds, somehow? And "Res" is the name of the world this whole book took place on save for that "Synchronism" epilogue? I'm so confused.||

untold geyser
solemn ore
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WotM All ||It seems by the end of this that there are now two of Vis, each in different worlds. Somehow, he made a copy of himself and whatever happens to one happens to the other? This is nothing like anything the book set up before, at least as far as I know.||

untold geyser
solemn ore
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Ohhh

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WotM end ||So... the Vis in Res just won the Iudicium. The second Vis wakes up in the Labyrinth with no Remnants present and activates entry to Luceum, and the third Vis wakes up in Luceum, where he then meets Caeror. Right?||

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Gosh, I need the second book now.

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I'd say as fantasy books go, this one was alright for the most part. Not the best, and not on the same level of quality as the Licanius trilogy, in my opinion. But the ending definitely switches things up and leaves me wanting more.

solemn ore
boreal summit
solemn ore
boreal summit
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It will all make sense in book 2, I promise 😅

solemn ore
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👍

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WotM end ||So, just to make it clear... there's a Vis in Res, a Vis in Luceum, and a Vis in Obiteum. Three independent copies of the same person now with different minds living different lives, but whatever happens to the body of one affects the others? And it all has something to do with Synchronism. But what does it have to do with the Cataclysm? And why does Veridius seem so sure another Cataclysm will happen? And why did Emissa try to kill Vis, except apparently not? AAAAAGH.||

boreal summit
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If you want a hint, book 2 follows (SotF general) ||3 povs||

cunning fog
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I'm done the book I was reading

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Next up I plan to reread the end of wotm

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Then it's time for strength of the few

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How many parts does wotm have?

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Was it 3 4 or 5

empty stream
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Iirc 3

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But I don't have my copy with me

cunning fog
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Ok, I think I'm gonna reread part 3 through to the end

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Hopefully that'll remind me of what happened and who everyone is

honest sandal
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It's a bit cheesy. But still.

limber badger
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https://youtu.be/iSrgOlqB6VA?si=e2Tro7ZUbkKCDtJI

YouTube
Captured in Words
The Will of the Many by James Islington | In-Depth Summary

With the recent release of The Strength of the Few, now felt like the perfect time to dive into an in-depth summary of The Will of the Many by James Islington! This chapter-by-chapter breakdown is designed to be detailed enough, it’ll feel like you’ve reread the book—so you’ll be fully prepared to jump into the sequel.

Buy the Will of t...

▶ Play video
cunning fog
rapid wharf
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I’m 50% into TWoTM. I was close to DNFing early on but I’m pleased I pushed on through

wanton cargo
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Yeah i will admit it has a slow start. Not painful but slow nonetheless

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I'd say (WoTM, safe for you) ||after the transvect crash is when the intruige starts and the naumachina is when it pops off||

cunning fog
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I feel like I'm getting a flashback montage in a movie or something as I reread this xD

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Everything is coming back to me

cunning fog
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Wotm all ||anguis isn't all from suus, right? It was just estevan?||

cunning fog
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WOTM all ||interestingly, both of the dead people who help Vis were traitors for trying to unseal Obiteum. I wonder if that means Luceum isn't sealed in the same way?||

cunning fog
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Wotm all ||I'd kinda forgotten how many massive questions the end of the book raises in such quick succession||

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||i wonder what on earth is up with emissa and her deal. I don't remember finding out in book1, hopefully book 2 will bring answers 👀 ||

limber badger
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Hopefully it does

cunning fog
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I'm curious to see how SOTF weaves together a bunch of the different threads from book1

cunning fog
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Ok, finished wotm again

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WOTM all ||if I understand correctly, it seems when Vis stepped into the circle thing, a copy of him was placed in each of the 3 copied worlds: res/luceum/obiteum. The Luceum one had to pay a toll to properly enter luceum it seems - I guess whenever obiteum was sealed off, it was too - and that toll was his arm, which was why Res-Vis lost his arm. Then Obiteum Vis was immediately found by O-Caeror (or original caeror?) and led out, and O-Vis carved the words into his arm to instruct both other Vis's. In theory O-Vis was the first Vis copy to appear, then, because O-Vis's actions are needed for both other Vis's scenes. I don't know why he didn't have to pay a toll to enter Obiteum, even though the dead folks were in trouble for trying to unseal/access it. If I had to guess, maybe Caeror somehow unsealed it earlier, but no one unsealed Luceum. L-Vis was found by some people who call him traveller and talk about another from his world, so it seems like Luceum is more aware of the realms. It seems like there was some sort of event where the three worlds were made - the war against the concurrence. My guess is that Luceum (and maybe Obiteum) were sealed away from each other to protect each. O-Caeror says O-Vis's connection to the other two will fade, so I suppose maybe that means their physical states won't effect each other as much in book 2. The Rending seems to be the moment the 3 worlds were separated. Synchronism seems to be the state of existing across all three, though why the traitors are forced to help others looking to synchronise I'm not sure. Elia mentions she tried to remove the seal to Obiteum, so I assume that must've been done later on by O-Caeror or someone else, and that's why there was no toll for O-Vis. My guess is that the Concurrence is some sort of destruction that spans across all connected worlds, and so they had to separate them||

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||oh, and I'm not totally sure but it seems like the dome chamber has some sort of quality of being between worlds, because a copy was made into it before L-Vis entered Luceum (it seems)||

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||I suspect connections between worlds is a bad thing (because it might cause the concurrence?) and, if emissa is in on what veridius knows, emissa may have tried to kill Vis because she could tell he was 'synchronised', and if he was that could risk helping the Concurrence. Though I'm unsure why Veridius seems to think he's fine now||

limber badger
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I am excited to see your reactions!

cunning fog
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Wotm all ||oh, and my guess is the powers are something to do with synchronism, perhaps drawing on whatever the concurrence is or what connections between worlds exist||

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||although with the word "copied" used to describe the 3 worlds I am like... is this more like editing a file? But i don't think that's what we're doing||

rapid wharf
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I’m on the final straight!

IMG_6744.jpg
rapid wharf
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Finished TWoTM!

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I wasn’t sure I wanted to read the second book but now, how can I not?

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I’ll just need to wait a year for the paperback…

cunning fog
cunning fog
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SOTF 1 ||i do kind of wonder how we're gonna balance the corruption/rebellion stuff with the apocalypse/godkilling stuff||

cunning fog
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SoTF V ||so... Ka - the concurrence. Is the concurrence just... a person? I suppose Ka is the "god" caeror wants to kill||

cunning fog
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VI ||if I understand correctly, Ka exists in all 3 worlds, giving him synchronism and the ability to use the old style of will, which is how he does the cataclysms||

limber badger
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VI ||I wonder which of the 3 POVs you'll end up liking the most||

cunning fog
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VI ||so far I think I'm having the hardest time with Luceum-Vis, but he's also gotten the fewest chapters (or maybe equal fewest? But R-Vis has a whole previous book)||

cunning fog
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SOTF VII ||I wonder if Ruarc is L-Ka||

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||ill admit, part of me is a little... not quite worried, but unsure how I feel about the way these chapters have sort of maybe set up one person being the big apocalyptic threat. For one, I'm a little unsure about how simple it sort of makes things? And I'm also kind of worried about how the hierarchy and all fits into this||

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||I guess it's just like... I feel like we were set up with a few big overarching issues across society and the multiverse and I'm kind of hoping we don't end up narrowing to just dealing with one person||

limber badger
cunning fog
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Is there a map of SOTF||luceum/obiteum|| anywhere?

limber badger
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😭

cunning fog
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Dang 😭

limber badger
cunning fog
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Sotf XXIV ||God, I wonder how differently this would play out had l-vis had o-vis's knowledge||

cunning fog
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Sotf general thoughts ||so far, I'm liking this book but I don't think I'm totally hooked. I like all of the povs, and I'm interested in each setting. I think I just feel a little like I'm waiting for it to get going...? We'll see||

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||part of it might be the lack of as clear of a plot as wotm. Book 1 had the very spelled-out goal of train, get into the academy, find secrets. Whereas this one... I don't know what luceum is really about, obiteum has killing ka, and res... I'm also a little unsure on what the plot is? Exposing the anguis/military/hierarchy seems to be vis's goal but I'm not sure how we're getting there||

cunning fog
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Part 1 of sotf done

rapid wharf
cunning fog
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So far I'd say it's intriguing and feels written on the same level as wotm, but hasn't fully gotten going

rapid wharf
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I almost didn’t continue with wotm due to the slow start but it’s different if it’s expected.

cunning fog
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I do feel like wotm hooked me earlier, but it is quite possible I've forgotten when things started happening

rapid wharf
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There was the ||colosseum style battle ||that picked it up, but it didn’t really grab me until|| the academy||.

solemn ore
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I've finally started Strength of the Few!

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SotF V (5) ||So far, Obiteum has proven to be the most interesting of the three worlds/stories. Caeror is my new favorite character. But already, this book is loads more interesting than the first one was, now that it feels like the story truly has opened up.||

solemn ore
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SotF VII (7) ||So, we have a name for the antagonist: the Concurrence. I thought that meant a larger force, but I assumed an advanced nation. Caeror's description seems to indicate that the Concurrence is itself one living being, known as Ka. So... an evil god of conquest and annihilation?||

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Same tags + Licanius Trilogy ALL ||If I had a nickel for every time the main antagonist of a James Islington series was a singular god of chaos responsible for untold destruction and is known by a two-letter name, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice.||

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Same ||If anything, the fact that both "El" and "Ka" exist leads me to suspect a correlation. Are these books in a shared literary universe? Are El and Ka related beings in some way? Could they possibly be, in fact, the same being across several worlds? I don't know, but learning of Ka's existence is making me wonder just how big the scope of Islington's books are. I'm probably just overthinking it.||

solemn ore
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SotF VII (7) ||And now that I've finished the chapter, we seem to have clarification that Ka is just one man. That makes him more terrifying, honestly.||

jaunty grove
stuck forge
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The only at target really brings everything together

boreal summit
tough bay
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i actually did see it at target

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and i think it was a sticker but i don't remember

cunning fog
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I think it's time for me to go back to sotf

rapid wharf
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I want to read it too but would prefer a paperback

cunning fog
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I think I have the big paperback

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I can never remember whether the hardcover-sized ppb is the mass market or the other one...

rapid wharf
cunning fog
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Ahh

rapid wharf
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I'll likely need to wait 6 months or so for the middle size paperback in SoTF

solemn ore
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SotF general (let's say first ten chapters) ||So it's established that the dominant civilization in Res is the Caten Republic, based on the Roman Empire at its height. What we see of Luceum seems to be analogous to the druidic Celts, I think? And Obiteum seems reminiscent of ancient Egypt. I think it makes for an interesting variety. I still find the Obiteum story to be the most interesting of the three. If anything, I now have beef with the first book taking place almost entirely in what I think is the least interesting of the three worlds. But maybe I just think that because of how much the first book focuses on it and how late in the book we're really introduced to Luceum and Obiteum.||

cunning fog
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SotF general same ||funnily enough, while I agree the other two worlds are maybe more interesting, I am soooo much less invested in them||

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||i opened my book today to start reading again and saw it wasn't a Res chapter and kinda just... put it down||

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Sotf general ||so far I'm liking this book but I think I'm struggling with the pov switches. Keeps really killing my hype||

wanton cargo
cunning fog
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||I find both other settings interesting but res is honestly the only one I really care about (because it had a whole extra book building it up)||

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||part of me is tempted to read all the res chapters and then the other two later. I know this is probably not a good idea||

untold geyser
cunning fog
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I'm not surprised but I am disappointed

cunning fog
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Sotf general ||i just kinda feel like if I start reading another pov it'll be purely so I can get back to res and that doesn't feel like the best way of reading||

limber badger
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😭

solemn ore
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SotF general ||Just think about how Caeror is the best character, that'll help 😉 ||

cobalt socket
cunning fog
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Sotf part 2 first chapters ||I'm really struggling to get back into this. I took a few day break and now I'm just... really having a hard time being at all invested in obiteum||

cunning fog
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Ok, I kept pushing on this chapter and I'm getting more into it now

cobalt socket
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[Will of the Many Part 1] ||So, let me get this straight... By the end of part 1 the hero has: beaten up a magic man two levels higher than him, been adopted by and saved a magic man three levels higher, and "killed" a differently magic man who leads the rebels and has clearly ancient magic from the Time Before and therefore is arguably more levels higher than is sensible to count?
This feels ... excessive... And I thought I was guilty of plots that went shooting upwards in power level quickly. :P||
||Plus, have I just missed the explanation for what Magnus and Tottio* are in terms of titles, or will that just not be covered? They're not in the Glossary at the back...||
-# *Spelling aside, because I can't recall and I can't easily find it in the book just by paging through.

honest sandal
# cobalt socket [_Will of the Many_ Part 1] ||So, let me get this straight... By the end of par...

WotM that ||It's definitely funny but I'd say that, taken in isolation, each of those individual events do make sense. The most impressive thing he does is essentially just a suicide done through him. The fight he wins at the start is done via getting a cheap shot in and the implication i got was that the second situation was also engineered to make him look good, indirectly.

Magnus means a rank in the senate. Totius is someone not ceding their will, so they're not "half willed".||

cobalt socket
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[Will of the Many] I'm not actually sure it does make sense in isolation, actually. ||Especially the Estevan incident.||

honest sandal
honest sandal
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||I'm still around 80% through and while I'm definitely going to finish it, I felt much more excited in book 1 about the whole thing.||

honest sandal
# honest sandal How so?

In terms of the direct act, (WotM part one) ||It was very clearly staged by Estevan so that Vis ends up killing Estevan, right down to forcing the stylus through his own neck.||

cobalt socket
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[Will of the Many Part 1] ||I don't think that was the goal at all. I think he expected a different outcome, but when Vis arrived there at the centre that was the recalculation and decided to take his own life.||

honest sandal
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WotM part 1 ||Hmm, I think it was definitely a pre planned possibility. That's why they "insured" Vis.||

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||Maybe there were other options too. But this was definitely one of them, to my understanding.||

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||They were about to cause a mass catastrophe event right in front of him and before it, gave him a weapon, seemingly some way to directly remain unaffected by their own attack. I recall there being a line where Estevan is unsurprised that Vis has come to him during the attack.||

cunning fog
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WotM pt1 ||I remember thinking the plan was for Vis to be there but I don't remember the part well enough to give any evidence||

cunning fog
cobalt socket
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[Will of the Many Part 1] ||The plan was certainly for him to be there. The item felt like it was designed so that Estevan knew where he was so didn't smash that part of the arena and kill his king.||

honest sandal
cunning fog
cobalt socket
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That feels right, yes.

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I read that part last night, so it's relatively fresh. :P

honest sandal
# cobalt socket [_Will of the Many_ Part 1] ||The plan was certainly for him to be there. The i...

WotM part 1 ||I also can't remember the specifics but wouldn't that essentially make the whole death pretty justifiable in isolation? Vis doesn't actually do much in this situation that really requires skill in as much as they choose not to kill him. You may be right about the location thing, now that I think about it, but that doesn't actually change the core idea. They explicitly create an opening for him, and when he takes it, Estevan essentially forces Vis to kill him.||

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||I'd say it's easier to believe than the other two deaths, broadly speaking because all he really had to do was get there physically and Estevan did the rest for him.||

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WotM/Sotf upto part 1 (not safe for Vecna) @cunning fog ||Doesn't Relucia imply that this was planned later on, or at least that she was aware of the rough logic behind what happened and that Estevan killed himself rather than Vis actually doing it?||

cobalt socket
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||It's not the death that's unreasonable, that's fine. It's the whole situation, really. From whatshername even finding him at the arena all the way through to the death/escape.||

cunning fog
cobalt socket
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I think basically ||the rebels seem too competent each time they show up, given their overall lack of success at being actually rebels||.

cunning fog
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||i do think there is something later on that may help with that||

honest sandal
cobalt socket
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We shall see. It's not as if it's bad, just ... excessive escalation. It will have to go places to top that.

pure eagle
cobalt socket
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||The arena is stated to be something like 2 miles across at the lake, and presumably slopes up and outwards from there, so that's a lot of arena for whatshername to basically be waiting right where he happens to be sitting.||

honest sandal
cobalt socket
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Perhaps.

honest sandal
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I'll check my copy.

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Oh yeah, WotM part 1 ||they're sitting right at the front side in some kind of guarded section.||

cunning fog
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Sotf XXXVI ||I wonder if aequa will make the connection with the name diago||

honest sandal
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||Indol knows he's a Suus native, Emissa almost certainly has heavy suspicions regarding his competence and Aequa has the name connection. Eidhn probably has some details too.||

cunning fog
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||Eidhin at least knows he hates the hierarchy/republic||

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||it feels like a very precarious situation for vis. Sooner or later they've gotta figure it out||

honest sandal
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||I wonder how much Veridus knows. Or more interestingly, if he knew, would it even matter to him.||

cunning fog
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||I almost think it wouldn't, unless suus was/is connected to the cataclysm and all||

cunning fog
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Sotf LX ||this is the third time we've had an allusion to death being a doorway. Maybe its referring to the iunctii? Or maybe we'll be actually dealing with an afterlife later on...||

honest sandal
cunning fog
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SotF LX ||that makes sense, but I dont think we've ever seen it written in the labyrinth LUL||

carmine dagger
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Lol I just came in and was like

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What the hell's a soft LX

cunning fog
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Roman numerals

carmine dagger
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Ik

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Took me a while to figure out

cunning fog
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I could probably try converting each chapter number but that feels like it risks me mistagging something

carmine dagger
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And also that it's sotf and not soft

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I'll probably do the audiobook next month

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This series gets glazed to high heavens but it does have my least favourite fantasy setting

cunning fog
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-# least favourite fantasy setting that you've read thinksmart

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How far into the series are you?

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Book 2 does expand the setting in a way, I'd be interested to see if that helps

honest sandal
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I like Romans but i think the setting is almost always done in a very similar way.

carmine dagger
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But I do find the Roman aesthetic overused too

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Was never too much into it and the obsession even in series I like (Red Rising) makes me cringe

honest sandal
carmine dagger
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I'm not a fan of the whole aesthetic but I didn't necessarily mind it

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Till it became so overused

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Hierarchy, RR, Sun Eater

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Oof

honest sandal
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Hmm, I think most aesthetics in fantasy are super overused and that's just the nature of it, honestly.

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I think what hurts them specifically is that something like a rough renaissance aesthetic has a lot of different vibes to it while roman aesthetics always boil down to a similar kind of story.

carmine dagger
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Makes sense

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I love bright aesthetics in a dark story

honest sandal
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It's always a specific kind of dystopia with a very specific kind of storytelling system.

carmine dagger
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ASOIAF, despite the visuals of GOT, has some very bright, lush aesthetics

honest sandal
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Even GOT for the first season was very bright.

carmine dagger
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While the Roman aesthetic feels very sterile

carmine dagger
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S4 looked wonderful

honest sandal
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For what it's worth Hierarchy does have a bright visual style.

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Because the Romans actually loved colour.

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Obviously by the time we excavated artefacts a lot of colour has worn down.

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So early historians built a very sterile image of them.

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But from more modern studies, it does seem like they actually had a lot of vibrance.

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For a common example, all those marble statues we have of Roman emperors and leaders probably all were brightly coloured at the time.

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They also deeply valued colours culturally.

solemn ore
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I found the Roman aesthetic of The Will of the Many interesting, because I've encountered very little fantasy that uses any of this Romanesque style.

rapid wharf
solemn ore
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SotF, uh, XXVIII (28?) ||I'm at the point where the Luceum story has become the most interesting to me. All three are interesting at this point, but I'm most interested in Luceum.||

cobalt socket
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Hmm. Finished Will of the Many. Thoughts tomorrow, probably.

wanton cargo
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Did you like it at least? 👀👀

cobalt socket
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It was enjoyable enough.

wanton cargo
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Yipee!! sylheart

rapid wharf
cunning fog
cobalt socket
dawn sierra
cobalt socket
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I'm not sure I've finished writing them. :P

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-# Plus, I'm not entirely sure I want to have the resultant arguments...

cunning fog
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Send it and then removed the channel from your list thinksmart

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-# also, what are these things called? Forums? Topics? Threads? Channels?

cobalt socket
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-# Threads, technically.

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-# Threads in a Forum.

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[Will of the Many]
So it was fine, nothing special. I enjoyed it enough to finish, but I probably am not going to rush out and buy Strength of the Few when it's available.
I called a couple of things early ||like the dead brother not being dead, as soon as the second ruin was revealed|| but ||there wasn't a whole lot of jeopardy because Hyper-Competent McHyper-Competent was never going to fail any task||. I did expect ||the girlfriend to die in the Labyrinth though, not the spare chess grandmaster. What was she even doing there? Did anyone else go?||

||I'm also not entirely sure what kind of book Islington thinks this is....
It's clearly not a character book because the characters are all one-note, or two if you're lucky...
Vis? "I'm really sad and that makes me hyper-competent at any task even ones I've never done before" and "I'm really angry and that means sometimes I, an ordinary bloke, kill magic people and that makes me saaaad".
Adoptive mother? "Do what I say or die" with a side-line in "I'm magic and always be in the right place to do what I need".
Adoptive father? "Do what I say or <fate worse than death>" but "I'm loveable really, because I'm powered by sad like you".
The secondary cast had more characterisation than the main characters - the blind lady, the Census son. The former advisor in Suus for goodness sake had more emotional depth than the adoptive mother...
So, no. Not a book about characters.||

#

||But it's also clearly not a book about the magic, because he never explains anything about that...
What is Will? The people who lose Will can clearly still think and act and follow instructions and do manual stuff. So what have they actually lost, and what have you gained?
How does having more "thinky power" let you ... levitate? Move faster? Punch harder? Take less damage? Cut stone (what is Will-cute stone? Is it using telekenetic force to move part of the stone away leaving behind the part you want, using a giant mind blade to slice it in two, or imbuing part of it to move and not the other part? Like, what is it?) Why do your eyes go black? Why aren't your senses heightened?
There's plenty of buzzwords about Harmonic imbuing and Resonant Convergences that might lead to synergistic cascade that would result in a surge through the conditional matrix unless correct aligned to the anchor point. But, just like with real world buzzwords, none of them are explained or mean anything. Vis apparently spends much of his lessons learning about how Will works, but we never get to see any of it.
It is very much a soft magic system, not only in that I don't know enough about how it works to know how it will affect the plot but also because it doesn't effect the plot because Vis won't use it so it's always stuff that's happening in the background - of a setting which Islington has deliberately created where Will cannot be used anyway.
So, no. Not a book about magic.||

#

||It might be a mystery, if he ever answered any questions...
Why did the prison guard suddenly loose ten minutes of memories? All Vis thinks is "And we all knew what that meant", and we don't all know because you didn't explain it...
Was Adoptive Father actually working for Military at any point, or was that all also a lie and he was just doing his own thing the whole time?
How did the rebels find him? They had a vague description, and millions of people to check, and even then they still never actually talked to him because he avoided them, so they couldn't be sure they'd found Diago after all. They just assumed they were correct and went to a lot of trouble to setup a plan on a hunch that relied on so many coincidences to work. If they don't turn out to have probability manipulation at the end of this, it'll be a disappointment.
What on earth (Res) is their plan anyway? If it was for Vis to kill the leader, why? What did they hope to achieve by that? Surely, as a deposed prince, he'd be more use to them as a figurehead to rally behind, not someone to hunt down - it actively hurts their purposes whenever Vis has to run away from their goons.
Did any of the students poison him the first time in the infirmary?
Why does a tiny tear in a cloak break imbuing? Does scratching a tiny line on a stone break it, or do you have to crack it?
What is Will? Why do your eyes go black?
Are we supposed to assume that Idol is gay? There's lots of knowing looks and "I can keep a secret" conversations while looking at the Balli, but no one ever says anything about what what it is that they apparently all know.
How does the girlfriend know that Vis has "tainted blood" at the end? Where did she get knowledge of this thing from? Why hasn't the concept of tainted blood been foreshadowed before now? There's only Headteacher's explanation at the end to even vaguely touch on it.||

#

||Why did Vis have marks on his arm telling him what to do in both versions of the closing scene? The end of the scene implies that he's about to have them carved on his arms to send a message, but he already has them by that point.

And these are just the ones I remember not being answered...
So, no. If it's a mystery then it's not become clear at any point.
I'm not sure I have any faith, given his track record in answering things within the scope of this book, that he'll be able to actually satisfactorily wrap up all the answers across the trilogy(?).||

#

||So what is this book actually about? shrugs
This had a lot of promise (and hype, given the amount of conversations here were sufficient to get a thread) but I don't think it lived up to itself.||

cunning fog
#

||at least, it feels very purposeful (imo) in its continual raising of questions and not providing answers, especially in the ending||

cobalt socket
#

Sure, but that makes for a very boring/infuriating book.

cunning fog
#

||I think the book is there to introduce you to some stuff and then give you a whole ton of plot hooks for book 2||

#

Wotm all ||I think it's a bit of a... weird mystery? It's sort of a mystery/achive a task book until the end, where instead of a resolution you get hooks for book 2. Which may or may not work||

cobalt socket
untold geyser
cobalt socket
#

||No, because I double checked because I was confused. The WAIT and RU are already there before he presses his hands to the pads on the wall.||

cunning fog
#

||I remember getting the impression that the last(?) Pov was the one who did the carving||

untold geyser
cunning fog
#

||and that effects the first two||

cobalt socket
#

||But the pads weren't in the first ending, only in the duplicate ending where he ends up in the other world.||

untold geyser
#

||that’s why there are two epilogues that both start with him going through the labyrinth||

cobalt socket
#

||Well, then add "there are three worlds not two" to the list of issues with things that aren't explained.||

cunning fog
untold geyser
cunning fog
cobalt socket
#

I didn't need it needs to explain everything. Just something.

cobalt socket
untold geyser
cobalt socket
#

How could I not make assumptions when it's not explained?

untold geyser
cobalt socket
#

It's clearly not...

untold geyser
#

||not a perfect analogy but it’s more akin to mana than “thinky power”. Not sure where you even got that from.||

cobalt socket
#

||All the people who were ceding who were listless and demotivated?||

cunning fog
#

Wotm ||Will just reads to me as generic magic power/soulness||

#

||why it's called will? shrug ||

cobalt socket
#

||All the people in Sappers who were giving up 100% of Will and were catatonic.||

#

Like, it's right there in the text.

cunning fog
#

||right, I just see that as an interpretation of being without any soulness stuff||

untold geyser
#

WotM + Warbreaker ||Will reads similarly to me to Breath honestly||

cunning fog
#

Wotm all ||I see how mental power is the interpretation that comes from that, but with the rest of how will is treated I think it is more of a generic "ability to be a person"ness stuff||

cobalt socket
#

Anyway. I have spent far too long on this already today for a mediocre but enjoyable book. I have an interview to prepare for, and need to focus.

cunning fog
dawn sierra
#

||I think the issue is that only the actual ending of Book 1 is relevant and the rest of the story is just there. ||

honest sandal
#

Sotf ||While the ending is important, it's not like the entirety of the book just sets up the ending and that the other stuff isn't followed up on.||

#

||All of it is directly followed up on.||

cunning fog
#

Sotf/wotm ||funnily enough I was going to say the opposite LUL ||

#

Sotf ~50% ||one of my gripes so far with sotf is that I do feel a little like the plot has shifted away from res. We set up the three worlds and now there's three plots and there's apocalypse stuff, but I feel like... we've not done much with res. I feel a little disappointed so far||

#

Tbc I'm only 56% in to sotf

dawn sierra
#

I've not read SotF so I can't click any of that

#

A book has to be enjoyable on its own regardless of what follows up

honest sandal
#

Also I don't want to bother Vecna since they wrote that they don't want to deal with the arguments but like, a looooot of the questions they posit were fairly obvious to me on reading it.

dawn sierra
#

and that's how I feel about WotM

cunning fog
#

Sotf 56%||but I feel like res gets about equal screentime to the other two and a lot less has happened/developed there. Which just feels like a little bit of a let down to me||

dawn sierra
#

I do expect SotF to be more enjoyable for me than WotM however

#

whenever I finally get down to it

cunning fog
#

Sotf 56% ||there's part of me that wishes this book was just res and we weren't doing the triple-universe thing because I don't feel like res has developed that much||

honest sandal
cunning fog
#

Sotf ||how was res not the main plot of the book that only had one plot??||

honest sandal
#

Sotf ||I mean, the main plot revolves around investigating the disappearance, the labyrinth, and the eventual concurrence. None of these are Res specific.||

cunning fog
#

||yes but it's in the res world||

honest sandal
#

||The res specific part to me would be mainly the Res politics.||

cunning fog
#

||we've spent a whole book with r-vis, aequa, eidhin, emissa, indol, iro, ulciscor etc. and none of them are in any other world so far||

cunning fog
#

Sotf 50% ||I feel like we've gotten... little nods to the cast and plotlines of book 1 but not really explored them, which is disappointing for me because we spent a whole book on them||

honest sandal
cobalt socket
cunning fog
#

Sotf ||even then its taken half the book for vis to even touch the cataclysm plotline||

#

||I think my gripe is just that I would've liked more follow up to the set up in the end of book 1 for res, sooner||

honest sandal
honest sandal
cobalt socket
#

[Strength] ||You were the one that said it wasn't the main plot of the book that was set entirely on that world. :)||

#

closes Discord
Really need to get on with other things. I will return this evening.

honest sandal
# cobalt socket [_Strength_] ||You were the one that said it wasn't the main plot of the book th...

Sotf ||I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying here, I'm afraid. The main plotline of the book is the disaster occuring on different worlds. The exact specifications of the world and the internal politics of Res are a part of the plot, but they are not the main plot. A book being set on a world does not necessarily make the entire plot automatically be about that world imo. Nor does it make that world irrelevant in an either-or binary. The politics plot of the book still matters. The main plot especially matters. But the books also expand to include other plots.

Could this have been done in a way that prioritsed better? Perhaps. But that's an entirely distinct point from... Oh the entire book is purely set up for asking loads of questions, answering some of them and then dealing with other topics as well.||

cunning fog
honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||a lot of the res promises from the end of book 1 feel like they've taken agesss to follow up||

cunning fog
#

I'm 56% in, at chXLVI

#

Sotf ||Rvs learnt about ka in chapter XLIV or XLV||

honest sandal
#

||Ob Vis is definitely the apocalypse storyline guy.||

cunning fog
#

Sotf ||I mean, the promise for book 2 overall was multiple worlds but the promises for res specifically, imo, were "I need your help stopping the cataclysm" and vis joining governance, neither of which have had much happen||

#

||when veridius requested vis's help at the end of book 1 I didn't expect us to take over 50 chapters to have them even talk||

honest sandal
#

Sotf ||Eh, was Vis joining governance specifically and presumably doing work there that big of a set up? The big thing is moreso that he doesn't join the binary choice presented to him and decides to work to find the conspiracy.||

cunning fog
#

Sotf ||right, sure. But he's not done anything to find the conspiracy||

#

||so far literally all res vis has done is like... a speech, placement, a chariot race and only now spoken to veridius||

honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||this feels like it could've been the first 10 chapters||

cunning fog
#

||it was cool for the first few chapters for all the apocalypse stuff but I really don't care about O-Vis or any of its cast that much||

#

||L-Vis has a less dramatic setting but at least has an alt Vis with interesting development||

honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||I don't think OB vis being uninteresting is a betrayal, I just feel like it's taken ages to even touch the plot threads set up for res in the end of book 1||

honest sandal
#

||It's moreso just that I see it more jointly, i suppose?||

cunning fog
#

||genuinely, it does feel like this res plotline could've been the first 10 chapters, but it's taken over 50||

honest sandal
#

||Like, I don't see the threads set up in Res as being Res exclusive as long as other plots also work.||

honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||I sort of agree. I agree that res can set up threads for other plots. But I'm talking about stuff set up for res||

cunning fog
honest sandal
#

||I completely agree that this premise can have a much better execution, but I just don't see Res not getting enough focus overall as the problem with this book.||

cunning fog
honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||I agree there's not much to do but I don't think he's done the stuff he could do||

#

||his investigating was like... giving uliscor some names?||

honest sandal
cunning fog
#

||and his consolidation of power was basically just making one speech||

honest sandal
#

||And his whole chicanery with the Anguis.||

cunning fog
honest sandal
#

||Along with actually taking will.||

#

||You can argue that a lot of it should be skipped over but everything that has happened makes sense, imo.||

cunning fog
#

||right, my issue is just that it feels like it's taken a long time for very little to happen||

honest sandal
#

||Like, yeah, after absolutely refusing to talk to him he won't immediately return to talk to Veridus. This would be incredibly frustrating but the book tries to mitigate this with Ob.||

cunning fog
#

||the issue is I want to see the res cast and plot develop and be explored and I feel like we've barely scraped the surface||

#

||the majority of the res cast have only been in like one res chapter so far||

#

||Idk, I just find it frustrating because the other two plotlines have to build my investment from nothing, while the plotline I'm already invested in feels like it's been taking a similar sort of pace when I want to see more from it||

#

||the issue is I want more follow-up on the ending, the ending of wotm got me hyped and i feel like the stuff I was hyped for hasn't really happened||

honest sandal
#

||To me, the hype was for three things. To figure out what actually happened and what each individual player was trying to do, which happened. To see the new worlds and the apocalypse plot further and explained, which also happened. And to have all the falling action which should have been in book 1, which happened. ||

#

||It's just that the execution of each was dubious.||

#

||For example, at times I found Luc significantly better than either of the other two areas. And Ob consistently at the bottom. In large part because Ob greatly struggles with characters. It's almost like every chapter has one actual prominent person Vis can talk to for the longest period.||

#

||I think it's actually an interesting point because I think this book would potentially be better if we got minimal amounts of the other worlds but then it'd definitely be a betrayal to the ending of book 1.||

rapid wharf
solemn ore
#

Hierarchy general (both books) ||I liked The Will of the Many, but my main issue with it is that it's way too much setup with way too little payoff. So far, The Strength of the Few has had lots of payoff that I think should have been in book one, as well as lots more setup than book one had. It retroactively makes book one feel like mostly a nothing burger plot-wise save for a few very crucial moments. Still enjoyable, but kind of empty. And the fullness and involvement of book two makes book one seem even worse in retrospect. Like, I'm left wondering why book one couldn't have been this interesting.||

boreal summit
# cunning fog ||the issue is I want more follow-up on the ending, the ending of wotm got me hy...

WotM/SotF ||This. Throughout book one, Vis is pushed around constantly by Ulciscor and the Anguis. Then at the end he decides to work for Callidus's dad so he can finally make a difference. Be a player and not a pawn. I was dying to see what he would do when it was actually his initiative. And then in book 2 it just never happens. We jump straight from the trip to Solivagus to the festival where he's the anguis' pawn again. We never hear anything about his actual job with the censor. It was so frustrating.||

brazen wigeon
# boreal summit WotM/SotF ||This. Throughout book one, Vis is pushed around constantly by Ulcisc...

SotF all ||Yeah book 2 is very weird in a lot of ways. I think it struggles/suffers a lot from the 3 PoVs and needing to spend a lot of time introducing and developing the two other worlds, which means the original world gets the short end of the stick, pacing there is totally obliterated and the whole thing feels like bullet point scenes with no connective tissue and tons of telling rather than showing, which is what leads to the ending being such a disaster/cluster-f that comes out of nowhere featuring a character we barely remember existing. It feels like in terms of "promise" or outline or whatever there was enough content just in the original world for a whole book, if it was told well. ||

cunning fog
limber badger
limber badger
#

😭

mighty pebble
#

I don't want to jump in this thread yet, but is there anything for discussing Islington's Licanius books somewhere?

empty stream
solemn ore
#

I had to return my loan of The Strength of the Few. 🙁

#

I was only halfway through it, but someone else had it on hold at my local library, so I'll have to wait again.

limber badger
#

I can't wait for book 3

limber badger
#

I wonder if anyone else will read this series

teal vault
#

The first book was so bad

empty stream
#

I would disagree, and am curious why you have such a negative viewpoint on it

limber badger
#

The ending of sotf made me cry a lot

cunning fog
#

I almost wonder if I would've liked sotf better if it were book 1, somehow

signal basin
#

Will of the Many 34%: ||Enjoying this so far. Obvious parallels to Warbreaker, but more developed and meaner. I don't know how solid the magjc system will be yet, and I don't have a clear idea of the overall shape of the story. Will it end at solving The Mystery of the Brother's Death? Dunno||

solemn ore
#

I need to get ahold of The Strength of the Few again, but I have a few more weeks at the very least before it's available again. 😢 And I really want to keep reading it. I was only halfway through when I had to return it.

west quest
cunning fog
limber badger
limber badger
#

I wonder if we'll get a Hierarchy adaptation aswell

cunning fog
#

I think someone was announced to get the rights?

signal basin
#

WotM 58% ||Genuinely surprised at the wife being the Anguist archer. I don't have an idea of how he's going to get out from under that horrid teacher either|| I'm enjoying not being able to see where the book is going

wanton cargo
signal basin
#

Wotm same tags ||It's a great twist. I'm not one for trying to guess things coming up too much, but it doesn't feel like one I'd ever have guessed||

solemn ore
#

WotM same tags + Licanius Trilogy kind of general but also ALL ||James Islington certainly has a propensity for dropping the twist of "Character A, Character B, and Character C are actually all the same person" and he gets away with it every time.||

signal basin
#

WotM 100% ||Huh, well that asked more questions than it answered. ||

cobalt socket
#

Yup.

limber badger
#

I wonder if endnighthazer finished SoTF

cunning fog
#

ShallanOhNo not yet

#

I'll get back to it later

ionic river
#

I just had a sad thought. SoTF || In Luceum, Vis has friends, but no/dead family. In Rez, he has family, but is grieving dead friends. poor dude can't get a break, and I'm not even mentioning obiteum.||

limber badger
#

yeah

signal basin
#

Starting Strength of the Few. Interesting setup, not helped by me forgetting things about the previous book. ||He lost his arm?|| ||Well, some of his copies. Why doesn't Caeror have copies? I guess there's someone in the druid world that we haven't met yet||

solemn ore
#

Finally got ahold of Strength of the Few again!

wanton cargo
limber badger
#

not that im complaining

#

I really dont know how this chat lasted this long

signal basin
#

I'm finding SotF a real slog, to the point where I've put it down and picked up something else. I haven't actually, technically, ditched it, but it didn't grab me like the last book

solemn ore
#

I haven't really gotten into it, but I've been caught up with both school and a new video game becoming my new hyperfixation. I had this same problem when I first got The Will of the Many at about the same time Silksong released. 😅

cobalt socket
#

I've certainly been in no hurry to buy the second book...

cunning fog
#

I got about halfway in and put it down. I'll come back to it sometime, but it'll be a while

solemn ore
#

Strength of the Few halfway through (it rhymes!) ||Luceum is currently my favorite of the three worlds and stories. It's become the most interesting to me. This is the version of Vis who understands the least of the circumstances and stakes, and it's interesting to see that "What is this mysterious new world" perspective contrast the whole "We have to stop Ka and the Cataclysm" of the other two. Also, Celtic stuff is cool.||

bold vine
#

Pretty interesting book so far, about a quarter through Strength of the Few

#

It took me way too long to realize it's just warbreaker again lol

untold geyser
bold vine
untold geyser
solemn ore
#

I've reached Part Three of Strength of the Few and it's getting craaaAAAaazy

solemn ore
#

Strength of the Few LXXI (71) ||I want Tertius Decimus to get transported to Obiteum, be force-fed a Vitaerium, and thrown into the poison river while wearing cement shoes for what he did in this chapter. I swore out loud multiple time after what he did to Aequa, like what the heck and where did that come from. It was all so sudden. Barely under a hundred pages left and I can't tell where this book is going to end.||

tough bay
#

||couldn't agree more 😭 ||

solemn ore
#

Welp, I finished the book. Crammed in the last hundred pages on my last day before having to return it. What a ride.

#

Strength of the Few all ||I like how the three storylines end with different tones. The Res story is a pretty clear defeat with barely any good outcomes salvaged, with just a flicker of hope for the future. Then the Obiteum story ends on a big cliffhanger that we think is something good happening, when really it turns out to be something bad. Then the Luceum story gets an overtly pleasant and happy ending, though not without its bittersweet moments and implications of further conflict.||

#

||Also, what the heck, Caeror?! He was Ruarc that whole time? The guy I was quickly growing to like in Obiteum turns out to be the mastermind behind hundreds of deaths in Luceum? All for a supposed greater good. But hey, at least that moment left my jaw hanging in shock, I always appreciate when a story does that.||

#

||And Ka, what is going on with Ka? This whole time, we thought Ka and the Concurrence were one and the same, a single man trying to conquer and/or destory the world. Now it turns out that Ka and the Concurrence are actually diametrically opposed enemies, except Ka really is causing the Cataclysms, because according to him, wiping out 90% of the world's population is better than whatever the Concurrence's alternative is. And the Concurrence turns out to be... a collective hive mind machination of iunctii? I'm sure we're being left in the dark regarding those details mainly for the sake of letting book three answer them, but it almost seems anticlimactic for that to be the case. And yet, I also find in interesting. Also -- dang, not even fantasy can escape the dangers of rogue A.I.||

#

I enjoyed this book significantly more than the first one. This one feels more on par with the Islington I loved reading back with the Licanius Trilogy.

pure eagle
solemn ore
#

Oh, daaang

#

That's an interesting theory

solemn ore
#

I don't know if this is the channel to talk about this, but I found an interesting incidental Stormlight connection someone made to Hierarchy on TV Tropes. Stormlight general + Hierarchy general ||I was just reading over the article for Will of the Many, and whoever wrote the explanation for the Sappers described them with the word "fabrial". I just think it's neat to see someone try to utilize the word "fabrial" as a word for magitech existing outside of Stormlight, because in a way that's kind of what a Sapper is.||

#

Hold up, twice now. Stormlight general + WotM end of Part 1 ||Whoever wrote this article must be a Stormlight fan, because speculation regarding Estevan's superweapon he used at the naumachia guesses that it might be some kind of "fabrial". They're really trying to fit that word in here, and I like it.||

onyx otter
#

Did the audiobook get updated? I didn't recall SotF ||each chapter starting with which of the three viewpoints it was||

onyx otter
#

Poking around, does seem audio book was updated

ionic river
#

yeah when I listened to it I had to guess the perspective. Definetly an upgraded

onyx otter
#

My first time listening had that problem

#

Certainly an improvement stating it, since apparently the book has icons for it

solemn ore
#

If anything, I'm surprised that wasn't the case to begin with. Seems like an oversight that has since been fixed.

bold vine
onyx otter
#

It's been there at least 3 days since I started my reread like a week ago

#

I did see some people online saying it wasn't automatically updating for them

onyx otter
#

SotF all ||chapter 20 suggests that adoption is one of the powers of Luceum or however you spell that. Which is also the impression I was getting from O-Vis chapters. So will there has to do with taking control of will in objects or people perhaps? Also suggests anyone who is synchronous has access to adoption as long as they have a L self, but it's more useful on the other worlds||

#

SotF all ||hmm, little later in the chapter suggests adoption might be unique to vis but detecting will is the Luceum power.||

ionic river
#

SotF all ||Vis has a version in each world, but he can't move between them at will like that other guy can. Maybe they have individual abilities?||

untold geyser
onyx otter
ionic river
untold geyser
onyx otter
onyx otter
untold geyser
ionic river
onyx otter
neon horizon
#

SOTF All ||I wonder if his world travel stuff is somehow relevant to the fact that all those super powerful thrum weapons have these weird... world slipping visions||

ionic river
#

||I'm time travelling to a future where the third book is published. Any power in the world, I would choose that||

ionic river
solemn ore
#

SOTF All ||I didn't consider how the crook and flail did seem to have a similar power and effect to Estevan's superweapon, albeit on a micro scale.||

ionic river