Magic: the Gathering

[lucid jewel]

we have also been watching korra and i really hope they also release a korra set

[leaden tide]

I suspect that's one of the reasons they haven't put anything from that show in the Avatar set.

Like how they're following up LotR with a Hobbit set.

(Provided AtlA does well, but going by social media hype it's looking quite hot)

[lucid jewel]

im assuming it might not be as hype as final fantasy

but its going to be still very hype

[leaden tide]

Nothing is ever gonna be as hype as Final Fantasy.

[lucid jewel]

i almost dont want things to be as hype as final fantasy, that set fed into the bad practices of scalping too much and the lack of avaliability of product to regular consumers

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Even the non-FF sets have been hard enough to find these days. Dragonstorm and EoE have rarely showed up at my Target or LGS.

I suspect it will be the same for Avatar

[tepid stirrup]

Yknow it is kind of weird to me the further away we get from that particular tidal wave just how hype Final Fantasy was

I don't know that I'd have guessed there was a ton of specific overlap between MTG players and Final Fantasy players

[lucid jewel]

it was a perfect storm of timing and popularity and height of pokemon being wild so simular poeple latch onto the specilative asset as they see it of mtg cards

[tepid stirrup]

I guess yeah I'm not considering the Pokemon angle

[lucid jewel]

its less of overlap between mtg and final fantasy and more i think the social wave of the time linked to the interest in using cards as speculative assets ontop of just enough interest in final fantasy

cause yeah its kinda convergant events where pokemon eevee set i cant remember the name came out relativly close

and things were VERY hype at the time

[tepid stirrup]

It helps that the Final Fantasy set was very good from like an artistic angle

And had a reasonable number of playable Standard cards and a lot to offer Commander players

[lucid jewel]

yaa thats the thing, i hope magic learns that not just art but mechanics need to slap

i think atla set will work because not only are all of the cards mechanically good the mechanics fit the story and the vibe and so does the art

like it all links up and respects the property and adapts it correctly

we also dont talk about the bonus sheet in this

who ever was the art director for the atla bonus sheet needs to be fired

[tepid stirrup]

There's also just a number of deep cuts that show a level of investment and passion in the crossover, they didn't just grab a bunch of low hanging fruit

[lucid jewel]

exactly from the cabbage merchante to quench ya to the blood moon card

even if a card isnt great someone was pasionate and it shows so deeply

[tepid stirrup]

It'll Quench Ya being Quench is just

That's a call made by someone who really likes AtlA and MTG

[lucid jewel]

like literally the cabbage merchant does the same thing in mtg as he does in the show

its quality entertainment

[charred ruin]

Wait what?

I didn't see that one lol

[lucid jewel]

ill send it in

||https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47c25e41-f43c-4447-81b5-b9631448bd29.jpg?1755237828||

its an objectivly better quench

https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1779a6c5-147d-4632-b1d9-95e89a64dc2c.jpg?1702429408

[charred ruin]

Amazing lol

[lucid jewel]

its also good getting a bunch of lesson cards now and then having i think a strix centerd set next year that will have learns

[leaden tide]

Tbh I don't think that's entirely Magic's fault

They...someone on Reddit found that some old cards from a different obscure card game used some of the exact shame shots as some of the bonus sheet cards. I think it might have been partially mandated by Viacom.

[lucid jewel]

oh wat

thats nuts

i really hope the truth of that can come out into the open so ppl will give wotc less crap about it

[leaden tide]

Or the Gruul Bumi who does the "Feast" half of the Sword of Feast and Famine.

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04waHi1QcU||

[tepid stirrup]

Huh

[leaden tide]

Looking at the Avatar set as a whole, there's only like two or three minor quibbles I have about the flavor. Which I'm sure were things that just couldn't be remedied in the name of making it an actual cohesive Magic set.

Those quibbles are:

• ||Book 3 Katara's card is a very bland, generic ally typal card with no Waterbending ability. This is Katara at her strongest, she should be splashy and compelling.||
• ||Bloodbending should have been dimir in colors||
• ||There's no (non bonus sheet) card representing this scene:||

||https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-rain-stop-enough-wow-gif-22682458 ||

The fact that those are my complaints really speaks to how on-point the rest of the set is. They managed to make so many references that capture so much of the show while also harkening back to classic beloved Magic cards. It's everything Universes Beyond should be.

[gloomy pagoda]

ATLA ||"Not Now, Rain" - U1 - Instant - The next spell target opponent casts with U in its cost costs an additional U||

[tepid stirrup]

||Katara's cards are in general a little lame||

[lucid jewel]

i think it needs to be bigger than that

something more spectacular

[gloomy pagoda]

||I dont have as much of an issue with them skipping that, because what would you call it and what would it even do? It's straight up just Katara flexing on a guy||

(Or at least the strict contents of the gif are)

[leaden tide]

Well I also wouldn't mind if it showed what happened immediately after that gif. It's just where all the gifs in the picker end.

[leaden tide]

Yeah she got the short end of the stick.

[gloomy pagoda]

ATLA ||It's a tricky thing to adapt to a combat-oriented game in general, because half the point of the scene is that she specifically doesn't kill the guy...||

||Like, maybe an instant speed bounce creature to hand?||

[leaden tide]

Yeah that would work and also be in Blue's color pie

||Maybe make it uncounterable or give it split-second too||

[plush bear]

In addition to those, my biggest quibble is the screenshot cards. They are so lazy and ugly

[leaden tide]

I consider those separate from the flavor of the main set.

They're just so far removed from the rest of it.

[plush bear]

Even in the main set, imo this has been the worst set by art for a while

[lucid jewel]

Time to head to school for a bit then rest of the day is devoted to pre release

[lucid jewel]

I would have to vehemently disagree with this

The main sets art is fire

Outside of examples like the weird ai looking toph

[lucid jewel]

The bonus sheet is trash and then I would say max theres like 5 examples out of a couple hundred of the main set/Jumpstart set like the weird toph that are kinda poop art

Rest is gorgeous

[lucid jewel]

Also told my kid that we are brushing our teeth and putting on fresh deodorant before we leave the house this afternoon for the prerelease

We will not contribute to the smell of that room

[leaden tide]

The overall trying to split the difference between Magic's style and AtlA's style is...okay imo.

Some of them are good, some of them are fine, some of them are meh. Not many I actively dislike (which generally are the ones with anime-style art), but it's definitely not a match for EoE's utter triumph of art-design.

It is cool to see just how much variety of art styles Magic can successfully pull off, comparing this set to EoE before it and what we've seen of Lorwyn Eclipsed after it.

[lucid jewel]

Totally i just think the art slaps outside of that context. I totally feel like you guys do have a point about magics art style eroding of late and that is an issue

I cant wait to see more of lorwyn eclipsed

[surreal stag]

my golgari heart can not wait any longer

random vent. The planet lands are not great unless they are just directly part of the decks plan. I want to have them in Hearthhull Planetbender but they are jsut so.......meh

[leaden tide]

The station lands?

Yeah. They're...station in general was tuned pretty cold. There's a small handful of rare bombs that are okay (namely the Dawnsire), but I get the feeling they're saving the good station cards for Star Trek.

[surreal stag]

i just wanted to earth bend planets at people

maybe in my more earthbend focused Gruul deck

for Hearthull i use earthbend to get more landfall triggers

its....clunky

[lucid jewel]

Pre release tickets purchased

They were 45 each

[wanton hazel]

Sounds about right, local store here is 45 for UB, 30 for normal

[lucid jewel]

I was expecting 45 but its okay still got 20 in cash for some sleeves

Already got my sleeves but the child needs his own

My flgs does have a bunch of the cards on display already tho

They pulled the bearcub

In its alt art

And the owl

[leaden tide]

Damn, my LGS is selling them for $50

[leaden tide]

Yeah that one's probably gonna be the chase $20 card of the set

[lucid jewel]

You going to one this weekend ?

[leaden tide]

I'm doing two. One this afternoon, one tomorrow.

And I just got my teeth kicked in.

[lucid jewel]

Well good luck tomorrow

[leaden tide]

Yeah I got spanked pretty thoroughly. Feel like I got a bad pile of cards and I just am not skilled enough to turn it into something playable.

[wanton hazel]

I’m 1-1 so far with one more round to go

I don’t love my deck tho

Didn’t get a lot of multi colored cards so I kinda had to pick an option, not sure if it was right

[leaden tide]

I got most of my removal in red, but only like 3 firebending cards

[wanton hazel]

My assigned kit was the blue one, and I picked White but could have picked Green

I don’t think I got enough red or black

I guess I could have picked green and splashed

[noble zinc]

Been working on... more than a couple custom cards for brandon sanderson works of all sorts.

SPOILERS FOR:
EMBERDARK
FRUGAL WIZARD
DARK ONE
MISTBORN ERA 1
WIND AND TRUTH
WARBREAKER
RECKONERS

[wanton hazel]

Went 2-1, fun set so far

Might play again tomorrow

[leaden tide]

Yeah I went 0/3

Had a pretty miserable evening overall. I know it was probably my lack of limited deckbuilding skills, but it felt like nothing could get my cards to work.

Well hopefully tomorrow goes better.

[leaden tide]

Frugal Wizard represent!

[lucid jewel]

I've lost 2 and won 2 all 4 rounds so far have been 2-0's

Still 2 more rounds to go

[leaden tide]

Damn that's a long pre-release

Even the longest at my store only goes 4 rounds.

But they have a lot of separate events

[lucid jewel]

I did get the one card I really really wanted tho

[heavy jasper]

There’s a few cards I want and prob won’t get today at my prerelease

[lucid jewel]

Good luck, I did see a couple of the grand lotus's that version last night that ppl pulled, also the regular version of the left card i saw a few copies floating around as well

Didn't see the fancy version of that one last night

[leaden tide]

Someone supposedly opened the neon border Aang at my lgs yesterday.

Those are going for like $1k each.

[lucid jewel]

I would be selling that so fast

[leaden tide]

Alright running Sultai Earthbending this time. I'm likening this a lot.

[lucid jewel]

Good luck

From what I saw earthbending good

[wanton hazel]

Tried Firebending this time, with a dash of Earthbending, went 1-1-1 this time

[leaden tide]

Nice.

Had a very close matchup my second match, but ended up loosing 1-2

[lime chasm]

You could even say it’s the quenchiest

[leaden tide]

Ended up going 2-2, got some nice pulls form my prize packs as well. Sultai earthbending overall did much better than boros aggro for me.

[leaden tide]

Damn. I seem to have lost my White Lotus Tile from yesterday though. :(

[heavy jasper]

I got the Grand Lotus!

[heavy jasper]

I got a white lotus tile

[lucid jewel]

Yasss

[wanton hazel]

Alright, guess I’ll play day 3 today

[slender moss]

Certified MTG Arena Moment: Someone had a 16/2 Tifa and decided it would be a great idea to Bushwhack and have her fight my Prosper before combat

Prosper is a 1/4 deathtouch

[lucid jewel]

yassss

love it when that happens

unforced errors are so funny in arena

[molten maple]

wait I saw the Vivi ban coming but also screaming nemesis and proft?

[charred ruin]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/banned-and-restricted-november-10-2025

Basically Proft's was part of the problem with the Izzet decks and gives way too good card draw, while Screaming Nemesis means lifegain decks can't really exist

And more specifically, Red aggro took another hit since even after the Heartfire/Monstrous bans it was still the only deck able to keep up with Vivi Cauldron, and they don't want mono-red dominance again

[lucid jewel]

Especially i know they are worried about how dominant red will be with firebending mana

[leaden tide]

Yep. There's a good chance we go straight back to RDW with Vivi gone.

[molten maple]

I am definitely not complaining

screaming nemesis especially was a plague

and never should have been printed

[charred ruin]

For once I agree with you on that lol

Utterly insane card

[wanton hazel]

day 3, I really hoped to play a different deck than days 1 or 2, but my white-blue cards were just too damn strong

[leaden tide]

Well if it's what ya open I suppose.

[wanton hazel]

I considered trying for Jeskai this time but the problem was that my best blue cards required 2 blue mana, and I was worried about thinning my mana base too much, didn't have good enough fixing

[leaden tide]

Ah yeah I feel that.

Yesterday I played Sultai, mostly green with splashes of blue and black. And while the mana mostly worked, I did have a game where I might have been able to win if I'd been able to cast my board wipe with two black pips, if only I'd drawn another swamp.

[leaden tide]

Not complete yet, but here's my attempt at categorizing all the AtlA cards by which episode they correspond to. Not all of them appear to be taken from any given episode. So I might just classify them by the most relevant episode.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17KscTaUYSfOOqZNFlnqVSC4kJKiv2ixPRMcRZBj95KM/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0

Also some cards have flavor text that's from a different episode than the art, I'll be going through and sorting those out at some point too.

No embed?

Aww.

But yeah any thoughts or suggestions or corrections are welcome

[surreal stag]

Thoughts, you are crazy. Suggestions, reread mistborn or something when you need to kill time, Corrections....none ive seen 7 episodes of the show.

[charred ruin]

Guess you need to watch it then

[surreal stag]

these are the intial comments i got from a friend that were not aimed at you potientail mental instabilites lol

[lucid jewel]

ATLA ||i sware we got badger moles with with toph explaining how she learnt bending||

[gloomy pagoda]

||Badgermoles, yes, but not baby badgermoles. Clearly they pop in from the Aether fully formed.||

[lucid jewel]

ahh i missed that the preview only showed this

||https://i.imgur.com/9fBJL9s.png||

[surreal stag]

fair

and i should have spoilered my bad

[rare sparrow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1osqvdf/all_avatar_cards_sorted_by_episode_appearance/ someone did a similar project on the magic subreddit

[lucid jewel]

from that link and wow this is amazing https://moxfield.com/decks/imqKiAQtJU2TVC57dytDEQ

[leaden tide]

I'll check that out, thanks!

[surreal stag]

Monster Hunter secret lairs look pretty

[leaden tide]

Sol Ring is turning into the new Island

[surreal stag]

Haha true

[molten maple]

What new Avatar cards do you all think could make an impact in standard?

[lucid jewel]

A bunch of fire bending and air bending tbh

[gloomy pagoda]

Baby Badgermole

[lucid jewel]

Not sure on specifics but I could see aristocrat sacrifice being big, boros spell slinger, red agro, badge mole green big things

ill have real data in the next couple days sometime though

[leaden tide]

Baby badgermole and the big bird feel more like eternal (Commander) staples

But maybe they can find Standard decks.

My impression of Standard is that, recently, ramp hasn't been a huge necessity because it's so fast anyways.

[tepid stirrup]

Good Standard cards are hard to predict at the best of times and this is a moderately spicy amount of change all at once

[rare sparrow]

yeah, standard didn't really have a chance to settle after the bans before a new set came out, so people need to figure out both "what's good in ATLA" and "what's good now that vivi is gone" at the same time

[lucid jewel]

you know after playing a couple games in mtga i really think i need to get a BUNCH of the food tokens

they look so good

https://i.imgur.com/9EUbWFF.png

the firebending animations are sick as well

ATLA ||https://i.imgur.com/5MoGP1R.png||😭

im playing jump in and i never noticed this card existed and its kinda busted for commander ATLA ||https://i.imgur.com/wL5alxI.png|| i think this might be a commander i look into because that is a LOT OF MANA accross every ones turn even if he is expensive

just the sheer threat of saying "and i add 6 mana" when ever anyone attacks

[leaden tide]

The cards that are doing crazy value numbers now are ones that have novel and powerful use in other formats, and usually Commander specifically

[leaden tide]

Iroh's tea is a good one. Still sad there's no cabbage token though.

[tepid stirrup]

You would need a cart to put them in

[leaden tide]

And would need to dump them out every time you take damage/get attacked

[tepid stirrup]

Honestly

A vehicle that could only be crewed by food tokens would be a very funny card

[leaden tide]

That would be a neat and novel design space

[tepid stirrup]

Honestly its goofy enough to be borderline unset design space

[lucid jewel]

btw talking cabbages https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/1p0i8kk/my_cabbage/

here is a thing you can do on mtga

||https://i.imgur.com/y9NHqmN.png|| heres the notification after doing said thing

[charred ruin]

laughs in Isshin

[lucid jewel]

look isshin is eating so good

[charred ruin]

I haven't updated that deck in almost a year and gotta do so

[lucid jewel]

its quite established isshin eating mad upgrades with this set

this is the set to update it tho

[charred ruin]

I haven't even updated it with Dragonstorm and that was half a year ago

Also it's had these cards in it the entire time and I've never managed to play them

The second-easiest extra combat spam after Aurelia and "all creatures you control get +6/+6 when they attack"

[lucid jewel]

someone just quenched me 🙁

[leaden tide]

https://tenor.com/view/suko-quenchiest-avatar-yum-delicious-gif-9571090

I opened two of those in my second pre-release, was a ton of fun.

[lucid jewel]

this is the card that was quenched

[leaden tide]

RIP

[lucid jewel]

Still won that game cause firebending op

[leaden tide]

Interesting look at prices as things start to sort out into their proper places. Most of this list will still drop over the next few months, but I suspect the top two will remain the same.

[lucid jewel]

There's no chance they drop much

They are big power

Im surprised by the position of the wall as 3rd

[leaden tide]

Well Vivi went from over $60 on his post-release spike to 'only' $40 shortly before his ban was pre-announced.

So I suspect the Badgermole and bird will slip down to $40-ish after a bit, maybe even mid 30s, but likely not below that for sure.

[lucid jewel]

At least most decks that want a wall want one of them

[slender moss]

Surprised that Aang, at the Crossroads isn't high up there

You can do a clones combo with him that seems strong in commander and probably will be playable in Pioneer?

[rare sparrow]

pioneer isn't really a supported competitive format anymore, and i think most people don't like playing combos in commander

[leaden tide]

Damn, decided to look at the Jumpstart cards and...these are almost worse.

[surreal stag]

isnt this the back of the saga?

[lucid jewel]

nope

[surreal stag]

well then hell yea thats a dope commander

im going to ask my table if i can rule 0 Kyoshis Saga as my commander lol

[lucid jewel]

i love some of those as commanders

okay started a draft and feels like boros allys is lit

||https://i.imgur.com/4vdtxZS.png|| my 1st draft deck with this set

[lucid jewel]

also feels like it can be a commander that isnt the normal red spell slinger thing

and i can politic and threaten things in really interesting ways

[lucid jewel]

||https://i.imgur.com/Mr7NKDM.png||

these two were such a good combo

im glad it turned out well

[leaden tide]

I'm glad it worked for you! I tried boros aggro in one of my pre-releases and it sucked.

[leaden tide]

Yeah there's two versions of Roku and Kyoshi, one saga version in the main set and one proper creature in the Jumpstart packs.

[leaden tide]

I feel like that wouldn't be an unreasonable ask of the rules committee, now that legendary vehicles and space ships can be your Commander. Anything that transforms into a legendary creature or produces a legendary creature token would be fair, imo.

[lucid jewel]

The sealed format is simular to prerelease where you get some extra pack or two that's based on the same characters as the pre releases

Im excited to try it out as a format today sometime

[lucid jewel]

Saga creatures can be commanders right the final fantasy ones ?

[wanton hazel]

I did an Arena Sealed yesterday and went 0-3, so that was nice

[lucid jewel]

Sucks but im almost always okay with sealed when I just want more packs right away

[leaden tide]

Yes. Because they're legendary creatures on their front side.

[wanton hazel]

are any of the counterfeit Spider-Man cards prominent in Standard these days?

[leaden tide]

I recommend choosing green as your sealed color.

[lucid jewel]

Yaa green seems to be really good for sealed

[wanton hazel]

green's the one I went 0-3 with but I had some fun games anyway

[lucid jewel]

A couple

[lucid jewel]

Then I hope that we can get the same allowance for sagas that turn into creatures

[lucid jewel]

time to finish out the draft run and try out some sealed

[lucid jewel]

i went 2-3 with my 1st draft not bad really

had fun

[wanton hazel]

I went 4-3 with my first draft, it was a white-black one

fortunately it was enough to play again since I'm done with drafts for a while after my gems run out, I think I'll need 5 wins if I want to play again after this

[lucid jewel]

https://i.imgur.com/LDp5BNZ.png

1st two cards of my 2nd draft lol

||https://i.imgur.com/NrVKRmO.png|| feels boros so far

[molten maple]

Hmmm

5-3 in my first ATLA draft with an Azorius waterbending deck ft Katara, Ty Lee, Secrets of Bloodbending, and Unagi of Kyoshi Island

Well technically azorius but it was like 80% blue

Waterbending scroll is a ridiculous card in limited btw

Waterbending felt pretty strong, there are A LOT of ways to get lots of clues to make it very cheap

[tepid stirrup]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R0mcGN6TrbY

AI out here putting the Elder in Elder Dragon Highlander

The TLDR is there's a large number of unplayable decklists going onto like EDHREC etc (unplayable as in, no lands etc) and they all have a whole bunch of cards with art of old people on them and Gran Gran as the Commander

CGB thinks its an AI thing

[leaden tide]

Well that's as predictable as it is disappointing.

I did see an idea on Reddit of making a Gran-Gran voltron deck just for the lulz, which I think has some legs.

[gloomy pagoda]

I hadn't seen it before, but it's kinda wild that Bosco is as strong as 2-3 bears

[leaden tide]

Well you see

Bosco is a hybrid of a bear + another bear, so that makes him as strong as two bears put together.

[charred ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/atla-bear-avatar-animals-frothy-gif-12860259

[turbid falcon]

IT IS DONE

https://archidekt.com/decks/17359446/my_playgroup_annoyed_me_so_i_built_this

Note the 57.3 salt score

There's also some really fun jank in there that I think will be perfect for dealing with certain decks

[lucid jewel]

uhhh

thats a little high mate

[turbid falcon]

Please note the title of the deck

[lucid jewel]

OH

i see why

uhh please dont ever play that in a pod with me that is big salt i agree with the salt sum lol

[turbid falcon]

Fear not

This is not a deck I ever plan on using outside of my specific playgroup

Its designed specifically for them anyway

They REALLY got on my nerves the other week
This is my response, entirely built from cards I had lying around

it'll teach them to not hate me out on principle, or I'll pull this out

[lucid jewel]

https://archidekt.com/decks/17169564/iroh_group_hug what do ppl feel about a deck like this mabey

im thinking of building an iro tea master deck

22 instants might be a bit much lol

mabey ill find another version

[leaden tide]

Seems a little low on lands imo, but otherwise is a good start.

[lucid jewel]

I've just been digging trying to find one i really like

Most of them are so expensive

[leaden tide]

Magic do be like that. :(

[lucid jewel]

I just am sad theres no precons this set at all

Only realisticly 6 months and ill be working

So ill be able to grab an iroh deck in like may or June

All updated with cool stuff

[leaden tide]

Yeah. I get why they did it though. So many cool characters they coulda made pre-cons for.

Too many characters.

[lucid jewel]

Mabey ill just grab something like the abandoned armour tarkir big butts precon deck and put the wall into it

[leaden tide]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1p2fyyc/the_grangran_conspiracy/

Interesting development in this.

[lucid jewel]

Oh wow

I was for sure this was some weird ai

I love how the 3rd comment down is "Release the gran gran files"

[tepid stirrup]

Its real

[leaden tide]

There is no AI in Ba Sing Se

[tepid stirrup]

To be fair, it is bizarre

AI is not a bad guess for what this was

[leaden tide]

And technically it kinda was (though not really genAI). Just directed with the specific purpose of seeing how (not) hard it would be to distort EDHrec

[granite whale]

So like if garth gets hated back to the command zone, does the deck fold? Lots of small "annoying" interactions but can't say I feel explicitly threatened by it. Obv hinges on your group actually running removal heh.
Like, what is the play pattern up to a winning boardsate I guess is my question 😄

[turbid falcon]

Well I'm running a ton of blink

And countermagic

Figure if they try to remove it I'll just blink it and fling another removal spell their way
Plus if their stuff is all tapped out they won't be able to deploy much removal, while I'll be able to untap with a combination of untap shenanigans and blink

Goal is to control the board long enough to resolve one of the two win conditions I stuck in the deck, Door to nothingness (which I'll be able to get back with regrowth to kill each player eventually) or Approach of the second sun

At least, that's the idea

I imagine the deck will need some fine tuning

Plus, what are usually just annoying stax pieces usually, are ones I specifically chose to deal with the decks my playgroup commonly plays

It is very much designed under that philosophy, else it would be a very different deck. Or just, wouldn't exist

[lucid jewel]

So uhhh

Playing this against an earthbent basic land ?

Works the way I think it does right?

I guess it does

🤔

[surreal stag]

would this be mass land denial?

[lucid jewel]

i would call it that

it dosent delete lands you have on the battlefeild

just future lands in hand or deck

[surreal stag]

okay cool ill never have to worry about this.

would or wouldnt?

[lucid jewel]

if you read the 2nd image

it states specificly that this does not destroy lands on the battle feild

[surreal stag]

oh nvm then my b

thanks i hate it lol

[lucid jewel]

i still hate it tho

its still disugsting

[surreal stag]

Did anyone else watch the Game Knights Avatar game and get inspired to go full tilt Gruul Earthbend or was it just me?

Planetbending is fun but again its Hearthhull with extra steps to drive landfall value even further beyond. Its as fun as it sounds....

[wanton hazel]

That may not match the examples Wizards has given for ‘mass land denial’ but I think it fits the concept anyway, they might update the definition if they need to

[surreal stag]

yea i think it fits the concept. if turning all non basics into islands or mountains is MDL than this it too. Both do effectively the same thing, This removes the lands from the game and so does the more standard MLD methods. Might even be worse.

[lucid jewel]

oh didnt even think of that

[surreal stag]

Since with other forms of this you can jsut remove the card thats turning all your lands into soemthing else.

this the cards are just gone forever

[leaden tide]

That's a good way to never get invited back to the table, lol

[lucid jewel]

Oh yeah totally its part of the cards and combos that exist in my brain for "this would only be in my cedh deck if I ever make one, but never used outside of competative environment"

[surreal stag]

yup like how i removed Ashaya, Soul of the Wild from Bumi earthbend becuase im not looking for infinite combats

[lucid jewel]

https://i.imgur.com/P1BLq0j.jpeg

this is fine

everythings fine i dont have this much power on turn 4 or anything

with 2 lands the whole game

[surreal stag]

just green things

[lucid jewel]

simic stompy counters is going hard in standard right now

the ammount of mana you have is just insane

[molten maple]

Dude standard is actually fun again?

My Yuna reanimator deck was the unfortunate target of getting collateral damage hated out of the meta

Because Vivi was so strong EVERYONE main boarded graveyard hate which made Yuna reanimator close to unplayable

My other standard deck is mono green landfall which was always good and still is

Nothing is really fast enough to consistently outrace Tifa or Mossborn Hydra swinging for 30+ on turn 4

The hard part of that deck is making sure your creatures survive

[charred ruin]

Nice Tifa you got there, be a shame if it Got Lost

[lucid jewel]

There's some really good simic big stompy things you might enjoy

Mono white slaps right now too

There's a mono white enchantment focused deck

And then jeskai artifact is big

[molten maple]

Yeah better hope you have a Snakeskin Veil or Overprotect in hand. I load up on as much protection as possible but you wont always draw it or have the mana up

[molten maple]

The simic Ouroboroid decks look fun

Im gonna try a firebending deck first though, if theure actually viable

[molten maple]

Oh god I hate playing against this deck because its just so inconsistent. If they get the nut draw there is pretty much no possible counterplay. If they dont the deck does basically nothing

I think Orzov Pixies is the best deck in the meta rn though? Or was before Avatar dropped, idk if it still is

[molten maple]

Actually Azorious control is probably the best deck in standard right now

[lucid jewel]

Im suprised cause I haven't seen any firebending decks

[granite whale]

Realised that this is the one place I can share that I have this card and evetyone will know the reference 😭 I still haven't found a home where it shines, but I love it

[lucid jewel]

Thats not bad in most white decks

Its biggest problem is being a creature

[granite whale]

I know it's not bad, just that I haven't found a deck where it truly fits. I could slap it in Alesha and get him back over and over, ensuring no one messes with my combat. But he's just out of place thematically 🤔 It deserves some style

[leaden tide]

I mean Tarkir feels fairly appropriate for Stormlight references, with both worlds drawing heavily on east Asian influences.

[molten maple]

Yeah I havent either. Maybe it isnt very good, or maybe there just needs to be more experimentation time

[granite whale]

Maybe if I built a fully human deck, ye that is true actually 🤔 but having it full of like mardu goblins or the like feels a bit funny x)

[leaden tide]

Yeah just say they're Lift

[lucid jewel]

Its okay mabey we will get a cosmere mtg set in a couple years

I could totally see one comming out before 2030 or soon after

[turbid falcon]

https://ipmnewsroom.org/this-niche-card-game-has-a-loyal-following-in-an-illinois-prison/

What

In what world is MTG niche

[gloomy pagoda]

Niche in an ecological sense

[slender moss]

I get the pioneer thing (although I disagree - WotC is still banning stuff from it and you can still play it competitively at LGSes), but "most people don't like playing combos in commander" is a wild sentence
Edit: Whoops just realized that was a necro 💀

[turbid falcon]

I like playing combos
But not simple ones. I like ones that take piloting skill to understanding to execute

[slender moss]

Yeah, that's 100% valid

[turbid falcon]

The most rewarding decks are the ones that play like a well tuned piano once you understand them well

[slender moss]

I once built a really awful Azorius Eggs deck with this man at the helm and there was a three-piece infinite selfmill line with Kairi, the Swirling Sky

I generally don't get the stigma around combos in commander

[turbid falcon]

I think it has more to do with ending the game out of nowhere

[slender moss]

Like, if I pay eight mana for an Insurrection and win the game off of that, it's totally fine, but not if I pay slightly less mana for a more easily disruptible cool interaction?

[turbid falcon]

But personally I like that until I lose, there's always a chance I draw the right card and win

[slender moss]

I understand fast and protected infinites being stigmatized, but that should be true of any win

If I'm playing Karnlock in my Memnarch deck, how is that different from Cyberdrive Awakener (apart from costing four more mana)?

[rare sparrow]

"you can still play it competitively at LGSes" not sure where you live that has regular pioneer paper tournaments, but all the LGSes near me are always playing whatever the current RCQ format is (so these days, standard or modern). pioneer only got played during pioneer RCQ seasons, which aren't happening anymore. regarding the comments about combos; IDK, aang at the crossroads is a fringe cEDH playable combo commander, so i doubt regular commander players will want to play much against it. Also my thought regarding aang is that it's pretty similar to gyruda, and my experience playing at tables with the very similar gyruda + clones combos deck is that people just groan when they see it

[slender moss]

*Every * commander is fringe cEDH playable, so saying that "regular commander players" don't want to play against Aang seems unfounded? I also question your assumption that combos are a no-go everywhere but CEDH.

Aang is also a lot less obnoxious than Gyruda clones, in that it doesn't mill opponents

[rare sparrow]

aang still requires resolving a ton of triggers in a row, you just aren't looking at your opponents' yards as well so you can resolve each trigger a bit quicker. it's like "found a clone, go again" or "have a doubler, go again", and repeating until presumably you put every single creature in your deck onto the battlefield, but non-deterministically because you have to resolve each trigger one at a time

[slender moss]

Fair, although most versions of the deck I've seen run ways of translating all the clones into a direct win through cards like Spark Double, Sakashima, and Mirror Box

Anyway with regards to pioneer saying that official support has ended is a bit misleading: while it's certainly not as heavily played as Modern due to WotC's relative lack of support, they're still looking at the metagame and banning cards

[rare sparrow]

and i would not say every commander is fringe cedh playable. like sure, you could put cedh power level 99 cards together and a do nothing commander and that would be a "playable deck" but aang is a commander that actually does something meaningful out of the command zone. the question is mostly how good that thing is to do if you optimize for it fully. i meant more fringe in the sense of, its right on the borderline of being able to be an established deck, where it's probably just barely not good enough

re: pioneer, i think i probably better should have said it is not really supported in paper. IMO they are still supporting it a decent amount through mtgo/mtga which is why i assume they are keeping up with the banned list

[slender moss]

I also suspect that more official tournaments will occur in future years

[rare sparrow]

it's certainly not impossible

[slender moss]

(Could just be wishful thinking though)

[rare sparrow]

just feels unlikely that they would skip it for RCQ seasons two years straight if they planned on doing a pioneer season again in the future

[slender moss]

Yeah but one-offs are probably still on the cards (pun intended)

Anyway re: combos in commander, at least at my LGSes combos without tutors are generally treated similarly to, say, running Insurrection or Craterhoof

[rare sparrow]

like when they didn't do it for one year i thought "oh maybe they are just planning on doing all but one season as standard and just going to alternate every year between modern/pioneer for the last season" but then in 2026 they are still not doing pioneer

[rare sparrow]

not at all my experience lol, but i think your experience SHOULD be the ideal

[slender moss]

Fair

[rare sparrow]

the lack of having an experience like that is why i moved to mostly playing cEDH, so i can actually get an experience where i don't have to worry about people getting mad about combos

[slender moss]

Yeah valid

I think pregame discussion helps a lot though

Possibly my two local LGS' culture around combos results from the Commander League that my (more local, but there's a ton of player crossover between the two) LGS does, which involves upgrading precons into semi-competitive decks with a sealed card pool

[rare sparrow]

i do think the bracket system has helped quite a bit as far as making pregame discussions more useful. but it's still not perfect, as all my casual decks have no game changers but vary wildly in power and it sometimes is hard to communicate their relative strength, other than warning people about my one combo deck, which i tend not to play because of the reasons i stated above

that sounds like a fun time

wish my lgs did something similar, i like that kind of experience

[slender moss]

I think that there's a difference between a combo deck and a deck with a combo finisher

Commander League is really fun, but it takes a lot of work to maintain

Basically there's a 3-ish month season with three tournaments spaced evenly within it

And entry covers a precon, sleeves, and six chaos packs

Players can add the rewards that they get from the commander meetup prizing that WotC provides, and each player gets three pack slots/week that they can use to add packs they buy to league

In order to make it a bit less p2w, you can trade pack slots

It winds up encouraging trading, which is a really fun dynamic

[turbid falcon]

Managed to barely squeak out one win tonight with my prowess deck

It was down to the wire, I was dead on the next turn to both commander and normal damage all my removal had been turned away
But I managed to get my blighted agent to 4, found a Mizzixs mastery with exactly 4 mana left, recast boros charm for double strike and won because my buddy spent his mana on protecting his commander earlier and thus died

I had jeskai ascendancy so the Mizzixs mastery + boros charm gave blighted agent the +2/+2 I needed for lethal

[lucid jewel]

https://moxfield.com/decks/OvtqpcDB20CS5l0ew2vlDA

was thinking about running this deck for my kid

seems relativly cheap and not horrible what do yall think ?

his specifiic requirements were "bumi unleashed commander with jets brainwahsing"

[leaden tide]

Yeah that looks pretty affordable if you cut Badgermole Cub

[lucid jewel]

oh yeah totally, probs swap it out for something in the sideboard like ashaya

[rare sparrow]

you could consider playing some number of lands that turn into creatures on their own, like lair of the hydra or similar. those still synergize pretty well with bumi

[lucid jewel]

that is the plan to upgrade this overtime towards something closer to this https://archidekt.com/decks/16186430/bdgs_bumi_game_knights_82

[rare sparrow]

yeah, that looks like a good aspirational list to work towards

btw, idk if you are aware, but the "earthbending student" card, despite ostensibly being an uncommon, is going to be pretty hard to find if you don't already have one. i'm not sure what happened, but it somehow did not end up in any of the jumpstart packs, meaning the only way to get it is in foil from collector boosters. so it'll probably command a price much higher than it deserves as a result

[lucid jewel]

Crazy

I'll keep that in mind thanks

[lucid jewel]

||https://i.imgur.com/MGwcWF0.jpeg||decided to try something off meta in standard thats kinda stormy

and it is heaps of fun to play

[leaden tide]

Nice. ||Grand Lotus Iroh|| is a great finisher for that style of deck.

[lucid jewel]

the finisher is actually sokka

the deck dosent really do much just kinda STORMS!!!! then you attack with a big sokka

i wish there was a better win con

[surreal stag]

Started with this for my own list lol

Admittedly I removed the infinite combat right away lol

[upper moon]

Where's the old man of the sea in that deck

best synergy

[lucid jewel]

Old man of the sea?

[upper moon]

From the ||gran gran|| conspiracy

was meant to be a joke

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1p2fyyc/the_grangran_conspiracy/

[lucid jewel]

Ahh yes forgot about that

Glad we got closure on it

[turbid falcon]

Well my salty deck worked like a charm

Impossible to remove, impossible to deal with, shutting down pretty much everything
My playgroup and I hated it so it worked pretty much exactly as I intended
Hopefully having made my point I'll never have to bring it back out

[molten maple]

I truly do not understand how it is possible to lose as Blue/White control rn in standard

its so unbelievably easy

just counterspell the first 15 spells of the game, then when they finally get something on the board just spam 10 board wipes in a row until you get your BS instant mill wincon online

like seriously how

like seriously, this was turn 2/3/4 of the game I just played

then turns 5/6/7 were 3 board wipes in a row

and somehow every single one of them gets to play first too

The Simic Craterhoof Behemoth + Badgermole Cub deck is pretty impossible to beat too

I dont know whats going on, ive played 15 games today and gone first one time

[lucid jewel]

Sometimes it do be like that

[leaden tide]

Yep. Not surprised you're seeing more control and stompy decks now that aggro's hold on the format may have finally been broken.

[tepid stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/stantwt-chained-up-chained-gif-67266779391248431

[slender moss]

Why is Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner a hellqueue commander?

I mean I get that ramp in the command zone and additional draw is good, but in six matches four of them have been against Golos

The other two were control

[lucid jewel]

what do we think the art style of the startrek set will be ?

[gloomy pagoda]

Low-res screen grabs of TOS

[rare sparrow]

they did show off a few art pieces from star trek already

https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/star-trek

it reminds me of the doctor who art with the uncanniness of real people depicted in the arts

i do like this art of the enterprise though

[lucid jewel]

Yeah i dont like Kirk here but the klingon looks "okay"

[surreal stag]

ALTA Deck (i told my son i made a deck to throw big rocks and "play catch" with my friends, he told me that's a silly game its called Gingerbread Koo Koo Man)

https://moxfield.com/decks/OVSxBl_GnkCsvdc5CZkizg

inspired by BDGs showing on Game Knights with some mods to fit my pod/prefered gamestyle

[lucid jewel]

I was like oh dam that's an expensive deco

Then looked at prices

Casually 1779.91 worth of lands

Badgermole cub just keeps increasing in price as well

[surreal stag]

badgermole isnt in the deck lol

but yes this is a "all my cards are pretty cuz i dont buy anhting in paper" deck

as are all my decks

[lucid jewel]

I forgot your the tts guy

[surreal stag]

yas queen

[lucid jewel]

I need to get around to sorting that out and playing with you

[surreal stag]

yas queen

once you have TTsim and the mod pack for magic youre all set its very plug and play

[lucid jewel]

Its more the time to play than the time to set it up

[surreal stag]

then its just learning to controls which should be easyu as you are in fact a resonable human

[lucid jewel]

I have been told my brain exists

I dont expect the controls or setup to be issues

[leaden tide]

This one has a nice retro-classic Sci-Fi look to it.

Would love to see a special treatment where they look like classic sci-fi novel covers.

[molten maple]

Im trying to add some graveyard hate to my banter commander deck because I see SO many opponents running graveyard decks

Should I just throw in a Rest in Peace because its the most efficient graveyard hate? Or are there graveyard hate cards in bant colors that will also synergize with +1/+1 counters and my commander (Yuna Grand Summoner)

[slender moss]

You could always run 'Scuze

That would be in addition to RIP, though, since Scuze is really only good at stopping single-target reanimation

[turbid falcon]

Ooh try thraben charm

Graveyard hate, enchantment removal and creature removal all stapled onto one spell

Scuze or lions sash is your best option for synergy with +1/+1 counters

[slender moss]

Oh yeah forgot about Lion Sash

Lion sash is better as it also gets counters from exiling fetchlands

And other permanents that people recur

However the life from scuze and the fact that it isn't an artifact is nice

[turbid falcon]

You can also throw that one colorless desert in

[slender moss]

It's funny against graveyard decks because you get to decide when to pop it

[turbid falcon]

If you're really seeing that much graveyard nonsense, I feel those 4 together (thraben charm, scavenging ooze, lions sash and scavenging grounds) should probably together be enough to counter most issues without diluting your deck too much

[leaden tide]

Lion Sash is also a good synergistic choice for the deck anyways.

Same with Ooze

They shouldn't dilute it at all.

[leaden tide]

Damn.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/back-to-the-drawing-board-with-secret-lair-x-monster-hunter

They pulling the Monster Hunter secret lair and reworking it.

[wanton hazel]

what was wrong with it? I mean, I don't really like Secret Lair or Monster Hunter so I didn't really follow it

[leaden tide]

Lackluster and low value card choices.

Also there was a major typo in one of the card names.

From the article, It sounds like Capcom might have had a hand in the decision.

[gloomy pagoda]

Sounds like they Superdropped the ball

[tepid stirrup]

I can read it two ways, actually

1. is what you said, that Capcom was getting bad press and yanked the chain, but alternatively
2. Capcom had been making demands WotC wasn't happy with and it wasn't until bad press rolled in that WotC had the leverage to make Capcom back off on those demands

2. is the one I think WotC probably prefers people read into it but it is certainly harder to give them that grace when they've had some pretty consistent problems with crossover materials lately

And almost particularly the smaller sets

[lucid jewel]

I get that every situation is unique and complex with all of these cross overs but latley wotc has had a string of bad press

[turbid falcon]

It's almost like it would be so much simpler if they only had to worry about their own IP

[lucid jewel]

But think about the quarterly profits and the shareholders and the fiduciary responsibility that they need to increase profits every quater and increase the increase of profits

[turbid falcon]

Oh no the shareholders of Hasbro how could I not consider them

[surreal stag]

Just had someone scoop on turn 7 cuz they went down to 18 HP after I swung ONE CREATURE at everyone

[wanton hazel]

is that the real reason, or did they just draw horribly with a weaker deck than everyone else at the table and they weren't having fun?

[surreal stag]

Probs a bad draw but they were playing Toph Metalbender so like. Those colors have plenty of ways to bounce back

I just hate early scoops. You might as well try and play another turn. Especially if you’re gunna STAY IN THE CALL like if you scoop like that just leave

[plush bear]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/back-to-the-drawing-board-with-secret-lair-x-monster-hunter

[lucid jewel]

@plush bear

Repost smh

[plush bear]

Oh

:(

[lucid jewel]

No your g

Its interesting news

[molten maple]

Question

I want to use this as earthbending hate, does it work the way I want it to?

As I understand it, the earthbender will not get their lands back because this immediately ends the turn?

[sleek valley]

As I understand it, the delayed trigger from earthbending will not go on the stack, so the land(s) will stay in the graveyard.

[molten maple]

YESSSS

Lets go

[leaden tide]

Correct.
https://mtg.wiki/page/Manipulate_time

723.1a If there are any triggered abilities that triggered before this process began but haven’t been put onto the stack yet, those abilities cease to exist. They won’t be put onto the stack. This rule does not apply to abilities that trigger during this process (see rule 723.1f).

Earthbending falls into this case. The abilities trigger (since the destroy clause of the spell is before the end of turn spell), but the whole spell resolves at once before anything else can go on the stack. So the "return to battlefield" abilities cease to exist.

[lucid jewel]

You can also use this fun thing

Like if you destroy a earthbent creature then end the turn

Does a simular thing

[surreal stag]

I will not stand for earthbend hate theory crafting

sits down and pouts

Continue

[molten maple]

Nice badgermole you got there 😎

[surreal stag]

I’ve yet to run bm cub in any deck

I need to commit to it and just see how dumb things get

[wanton hazel]

it impacts activated abilities, not triggered abilities?

[surreal stag]

So tapping land creatures gives you nothing

https://moxfield.com/decks/OVSxBl_GnkCsvdc5CZkizg

i think im trying to do too much. Dump three decks of cards into it last night. After deleted duplicates I was down to 146. 15 cuts to go

My son named the deck.

[lucid jewel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/s/qQ2fpcIvvU

[charred ruin]

Texas should probably have swamps too but that's about right

[tepid stirrup]

Utah should have an island for the Great Salt Lake and Wyoming has no business having a forest

North and South Dakota could maybe have mountains too

[surreal stag]

As an Illinois and Indiana resident I hate the no swamps or Lou rains thing. Not sure where the island in Illinois is thought

Or am I taking that to literally and it’s just “next to water”

[leaden tide]

Yeah I was gonna say, Wyoming feels more Boris. It does have some gorgeous forest. But not as much as Montana or Colorado.

[tepid stirrup]

Arguably all the states on the Mississippi should have Islands

[lucid jewel]

Chicago being on the lake kinda means it needs to be having that island wet times and all

Also Illinois has some lake and some wet beyond that

[surreal stag]

Yes if it’s just about water then it makes sense

I don’t like i need to have been from the 7th out of hell to play Jund

And there’s no shot they just left mountains off Pennsylvania

I’ve likely hiked up mountains in that state thanks to the US Army

[leaden tide]

Wow. That's so stupid.

Do they really expect to be allowed to play in a tournament with part of the text cut out like that?

No they need to pop the holes in the art only.

[fierce dragon]

yeah the holes shoul-

[slender moss]

Finally, something to do with my pile of draft chaff!

[turbid falcon]

Why must everything from avatar be so expensive

I think toph first metalbender looks like a really interesting build but all the earthbending cards are not cheap

In an aside I also did preorder a box of Lorwyn now before spoilers come out and prices inevitably spike again

[leaden tide]

Yeahhhhh.

I've been watching the jumpstart Toph and Badgermole cub shoot up like

https://tenor.com/view/shock-surprise-gif-1094879864711420797

[turbid falcon]

Badgermole I get

It's playable in multiple eternal formats, if not straight up broken there

But why in the world is the jumpstart toph $60????

It's good, sure, but not THAT good

If it's not seeing regular play in multiple formats, brand new cards really shouldnt be above like $30

And even just the average earth ending card tends to be like $4-5 more than I'm willing to pay

That adds up when building a deck

On the other hand I'm watching the Ashling I picked up for dirt cheap for my izzet deck go up like

It's like $25 bucks now and I paid maybe $1.50

That is insane lmao

[leaden tide]

Wait which Ashling?

Ah the MH3 version

Yeah I guess Firebending goes kinda nuts with her.

[leaden tide]

Yeah idk. Hoping she's on a bit of a bubble that pops at some point.

Landfall in general is quite strong, but yeah idk if her effect is really $60 strong. Yikes.

[lucid jewel]

The sad thing about all these prices

Is it pushes me more and more to play online rather than in paper

[leaden tide]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's...maybe not intended. But definitely not unwelcome on Wizards' part.

[slender moss]

No, WotC gets way more money from paper than online play.

[lucid jewel]

Idk if that's true

I would be interested to see what the running costs of mtga were in relation to its income compared to the cost of printing and shipping the cards related to the income

Physical media be expensive to make in the year of 2025

Especially because the premier place standard takes place now since 2020 is mtga

[gloomy pagoda]

IDK if they make more from physical or digital (probably physical thanks to Secret Lairs), but I'd be shocked if it wasn't cheaper for them to grow digitally than physically.

[surreal stag]

mfw i dont give Wotc any monety for magic

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-laughing-laughinglizard-hehehe-gif-5215392

[lucid jewel]

yeah like im not sure either makes more just from the input of player money, but i am quite sure the running costs of mtga are much lower than the running costs of paper printing

[lucid jewel]

You know, im kinda annoyed there wont be a refresh untill Jan 27. Standard is still kinda stale even with a banger set like atla

[surreal stag]

by banger set you mean multipule new infinites using the same old cards and new 2-3 turn wins?

sounds annoying AF but ive never played standard so idk what im talking about to be fair

[lucid jewel]

None of which are being played in standard

Like theres basicly only one new deck and that's mono green stompy

I am glad vivi is gone tho

So that's a freshness

[charred ruin]

With how many cards are in Standard and how long they stick around it's gonna lead to a much more static metagame

[lucid jewel]

Yepp

I can see things like artifact simulacrum decks being strong for a long time

[charred ruin]

New cards have to compete with roughly 4-5 years worth of cards in the old system (4 a year with 2 year rotation vs 6 or 7 a year with 3 year rotation), and with that many cards to pull from it's easier to adapt the same strategy with similar cards when stuff does get rotated

I think there's a couple of exceptions, as I'm not sure monoblack discard survived the rotation of Cut Down, Sheoldred, and Go For the Throat alongside the Hopeless Nightmare ban. Stuff like mono-red aggro or green stompy is always going to be roughly the same just with different cards though

Yeah quick look at the top decks says monoblack is gone

But while not nearly as dominant, monored and izzet are still there

[lucid jewel]

Dimir is rising and red is falling i was hopeful for some red or boros firebending burn

[leaden tide]

I've seen some chatter that Azorius control might be viable once Hallowed Fountain drops. But we'll see if that happens.

[lucid jewel]

But nothings risen up yet

I could see asorius control being strong

[surreal stag]

im so glad i gave up competative games lol

[surreal stag]

Am I the last person on earth to realize Towers is just storming Magic the Gathering?

[upper moon]

It definitely does have some commander vibes. But there are distinct differences too

But yeah, I definitely see the mtg influence

[surreal stag]

Yes it hit me like a sack of bricks on my WaT reread

[lucid jewel]

https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/2966/mardu-demonic-pact/AAQAAQGx3S0HjQWTzSyLLOXYCKbfChmrigEDuusBoqAB29EqCaQumkuA_AH1pCu0sgOWBLSCBMQDmtkLAAA

may have found a standard deck that i NEED to play

[lucid jewel]

Just gotta grab about 6 wild cards

And I can put it together

Its also got a positive win rate in platinum to mytic

[leaden tide]

Oooh that's mean.

[lucid jewel]

Yaa someone mentioned it on a podcast and I've been looking to find a fun iroh tea master deck on mtga

[lucid jewel]

Mtg world championship is starting

If anyone wants to watch

[molten maple]

Just bought 2 new commander decks today

https://tenor.com/view/broke-wallet-i-am-broke-no-money-no-cash-gif-24120042

[lucid jewel]

What ones

And how much moneys

[molten maple]

bought the Counter Intelligence EoE precon ($45) and then a fully home brewed Fire Lord Azula deck ($700 )

Now though, I should have a good deck to play at most power levels

Counter intelligence for bracket 2, Yuna Counters for a fair bracket 3, Fire Lord Azula for when I want to get really degenerate

[lucid jewel]

👀

The eoe precons are great

Been looking at grabbing the landfall one my self

[molten maple]

theyre pretty gross

[lucid jewel]

Either that or big booty dragons

[molten maple]

every time I face one of them its a struggle

so for a $45 deck that I wont have to upgrade at all it seems like great value

[lucid jewel]

Precons are always good value imo

[molten maple]

yup

[lucid jewel]

Great starting points for any archetype and the best entry to mtg

[molten maple]

The funny thing is that the coutner intelligence precon is actually the "bad" one

bad compared to the other EoE precon but its still waaaaaay better than the precons from other sets

[lucid jewel]

Its kinda fiddely and requires too much brain for me

[molten maple]

anyways I think my Azula deck is going to be borderline unfair

but also very difficult to pilot and it will take a lot of practice

Then once I do I will have to use it responsibly, only when i see the rest of the table breaking out cringe decks ie Vivi/Kaalia/Urza

[lucid jewel]

Those kinda spell based decks especially ones that are slinging during combat are hard to play

Don't forget to look up all of the specifics on exactly when combat ends for azula

[molten maple]

yeah, I will have to be really precise with my combos, and know exactly what cards to tutor for in what situations

[lucid jewel]

Become a master of the combat phases

[molten maple]

but it has a lot of ways to go infinite

[lucid jewel]

I do think the fairest part avout her is she has to attack to do things

[molten maple]

yeah

[lucid jewel]

So many simular commanders just by existing do things

[molten maple]

you can definitely build more broken stuff with less counterplay

but if youre facing "fair" decks she is gonig to feel a bit unfair I think

[lucid jewel]

I think thats a great commander for the bracket 4 level tho

Where everyone's being a bit unfair

[molten maple]

yup thats the idea

basically I just hate being at tables where everyone is playing cringe and I dont even really get to play the game

so if I cant beat em, I gotta join em y'know?

[lucid jewel]

You gotta get down in the much everynow and then

I think my magnum opus deck will be a bracket 4 iroh tea master deck

If I can ever get the cash to put it together

[molten maple]

Its funny because I actually only have 2 game changers in here...

Fierce Guardianship and Cyclonic Rift

But the deck just should have a lot of gas and explosiveness in general

The first time I goldfished it I swung with Azula on turn 4 and immediately won the game with an infinite combo...

[leaden tide]

Yess. My gambling actually paid off.

Found an Avatar jumpstart box on Ebay for $85. Got lots of chaff packs in it, but also opened Avatar Kyoshi, Hei Bai Shrines, and mf-ing Toph from it, as well as extra copies of Zuko and the Cabbage Merchant that I can sell to make some money back.

Now the most expensive card from the Jumpstart set that I still need is Katara, who's hovering at about $20. Which is still kinda silly, but much more palatable than $50 Toph.

[molten maple]

Which Toph?

[lucid jewel]

https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/2/2/22d1b078-9175-45ab-8fbe-ed4af2abde1f.jpg?1764118698

pretty sure its this one

that one is $50

the other jumpstart toph is 25

https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/b/1/b15acc09-dd32-4e93-a788-7c0ae965a0c8.jpg?1764118212 this one is worth 25

[leaden tide]

Correct

[leaden tide]

This one is a lot easier to obtain though, you just need to find a place selling the scene boxes.

[lucid jewel]

those scene boxes look so good

[leaden tide]

The Jumpstart one is a random crapshot as to whether you get her Jumpstart booster

They're really cool

Also just have cool cards. I want to build a Sokka and Suki equipment deck at some point.

[lucid jewel]

you could do a bunch of bounce and repeated equip etb's with that too

those colours really support that kinda theme well

[leaden tide]

Yep. I also want to throw in some Reconfigure stuff from Kamigawa, in addition to all the obvious living weapon/For Mirrodin/Job select things.

Sadly though, the best Reconfigure card isn't in their colors

[lucid jewel]

that card is so cool wow

[granite whale]

Reality chip gets my vote for best, but oni is coolest

[lucid jewel]

okay fully sorted out what deck im going to build next https://moxfield.com/decks/xt3YR2pg1kmO7fbhV4IDxw

even adjusted the printings

and yes i will be aquiring the furby arcane signet

also the full art path to exile is just too good to not use

also need help on what to swap out for path to redemption cause i just need it in the deck so badly

[leaden tide]

Iroh giving you tea until you drown in it

[lucid jewel]

Yessss

Like harmless offering decks aren't new just love the flavour of it being iroh

[leaden tide]

Yee. He's a great commander for that kind of stuff.

Ope, Marvel first look is happening. There's only like what, three sets between now and then?

Huh. I gotta say, this feels both rather flavorful and...kinda bland at the same time.

[lucid jewel]

Thats so so early wtf

[lucid jewel]

As long as theres cards that generate, use and most importantly throw that counter at fools then. Yes this is bland

[fierce dragon]

I'd expect it to give reach while having a shield counter or something like that

[leaden tide]

Reading this I was like ||"Oh First Strike, sure makes sense, ooooh a shield counter, that's really good flavor, let's see what they do with—oh. Oh that's pretty boring."||

They were so close to greatness.

[fierce dragon]

I just don't get the flavor of that last part yeah

[rare sparrow]

crazy line of text on this one

[lucid jewel]

What i dont like about this is

We haven't seen ANYTHING for the strix set

When this is the release schedual

6 months away from a set we are getting spoilers when there 3 sets between us and that set is so wild

[wanton hazel]

I'm sure they have separate marketing guidelines between UW and UB

they might not start that process until Lorwyn

[lucid jewel]

Totally i see why. Dosent make it any more palatable

[wanton hazel]

I don't really mind, I'm generally for shorter marketing cycles and don't really pay attention to early UB reveals anyway

[lucid jewel]

Okay never mind

Im all in on this set

They got me with putting this on a card

[leaden tide]

The what

[lucid jewel]

Toot

Toot

[lucid jewel]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTrxXSFy4/

[turbid falcon]

I find the whole 67 thing very stupid
But that was genuinely funny

[lucid jewel]

67 is just as stupid as any other thing that dosent really mean anything but becomes vocal stims

[lucid jewel]

Lorwyn card looks good

Elf tribal golgari commander

She could be a cool counters matter commander

[lucid jewel]

shes also a dommy mommy so thats good too

[surreal stag]

Yup she’s a 10 in every way

[leaden tide]

Shouldn't this be spoilered?

But yeah that card is terrifying.

[charred ruin]

It is

[leaden tide]

Oh. Stupid Discord mobile being stupid.

[lucid jewel]

There's just too much support for a commander deck like that too

Form the regular elf ball stuff to all the counter stuff

[leaden tide]

Yeah it's not like elves needed another toy.

[lucid jewel]

They gonna eat good with this set

[leaden tide]

I mean they just got the badgermole

Like.

Leave some for the rest of us.

[lucid jewel]

I expect a elfball standard deck to be quite powerful with lorwyn

[turbid falcon]

I instantly preordered the precon lmaooo

[lucid jewel]

Wait

She is a precon commander?

[turbid falcon]

Pretty sure

ECL isn't the tag for the main set

[lucid jewel]

These are the 4 precons for lorwyn

[turbid falcon]

Never mind I'm wrong lol ECL is the tag for the main set

Ignore me

[rare sparrow]

Note that the angels/pirates ones are 60 card standard decks, not commander

[surreal stag]

ATLA & Swearing I made a proxy using art found on Art Station so that if you want to play this card without supporting the guy who backs AI then here you go. Yes the art on the real card is by hand but the man who drew it fully supports AI "art" and games etc etc so storm that guy.

[leaden tide]

Interesting new card from Lorwyn

[lucid jewel]

oooooooo

thats actually kinda fancy

[rare sparrow]

Always nice to see them exploring new space in boros

[leaden tide]

Yee. Boros getting things that aren't just "moar combater"

[turbid falcon]

So when I was recently updating my Teval deck I thought I added the gitrog combo in it
Only to realize a week or two later that it requires a discard outlet which I didn't have in the deck so I figured it wasn't relevant
Until today

When im sitting with 8 cards in hand at end of turn, with dakmor salvage in hand, and suddenly realize the cleanup step would act as the discard outlet (because the clean up step ALWAYS forces you down to 7 cards, so any additional draw effects will force you to discard until you have 7 with no further stuff on the stack)
Meaning in a game where I started hilariously behind, against 2 opponents who were running massive uninteractable enchantment slop, AND with a rule of law on the battlefield, I just cast Jace next turn and won on the clean up step out of nowhere

[molten maple]

Ok ive got a question

I was looking at these cards

I thought at first Increasing Vengeance was an objectively better Reverberate, so I thought it was weird Reverberate is the more expensive card

But actually Reverberate doesnt specify that it has to target your spells, so theoretically you could copy an opponent's spell, correct?

[turbid falcon]

Oh absolutely yes

Not just theoretically, it's often a powerful way to use it

[molten maple]

Cool

Seems like the less likely way to use it in my Azula deck, but ill keep that in mind. It could have some powerful utility

[leaden tide]

Yep. Opponent nuking the board, and casting Teferi's Protection to save themselves? Copy the Teferi's to protect your board.

Opponent just counter-spelled your game winning combo? Copy their counter-spell and choose it as the target for your copy.

And so many more cases.

[lucid jewel]

One of the reasons I watch a bunch of commander game play YouTube channels is because of things like that. I once saw Brian kibler do that whole cleanup discard gitrog combo so its like filed away in my brain for if I ever need it

[leaden tide]

Yeah I think the EoE land-sac precon even has that combo built in

[lucid jewel]

It does

[surreal stag]

New bracket 2 deck for me

https://moxfield.com/decks/mZeFI95hmk6klhtc98WWPA

purposly not using the staples like Deadly rolick/toxic deluge/T protection etc etc

[wanton hazel]

which mat to use?

[surreal stag]

That vivi mat is sick

[lucid jewel]

The chocobo mat is a vibe tho

[lethal isle]

they're both so cute but MANNN that vivi

[wanton hazel]

my first pick was Chocobo but I couldn't pass on the opportunity to get the Vivi one as well

they also had a Y'shtola and Cloud but I couldn't get em all

maybe if Cloud's still there in a couple weeks

[leaden tide]

I agree with the Vivi votes. Chocobo is a vibe but Vivi is just so epic.

Finally got around to redesigning my Neriv deck. Hopefully this has a more coherent play pattern than the last itteration.
https://archidekt.com/decks/18357369/neriv_v4

[wanton hazel]

the choco is holofoil and I don't know if the photo fully captures its brilliance but Vivi is awesome

[wanton hazel]

I can’t believe it but they put the mats on clearance sale so I got Cloud and Yshtola for $25 for both, I’ve seen them online for like 50

I guess they’re more common now

[lethal isle]

a gift today - I guess I'm learning how to play

[lucid jewel]

NICE

thats a fun deck

i really really love the commander precons for this aspect, they are legit the best way to learn the game right now. Its also the most popular casual format

[lethal isle]

hella

Zinnia....

[leaden tide]

I'm not sure I'd say they're the best way to learn the game as a whole. Commander in general has a high complexity ceiling that can be hard to grok. But they are quite good if you have a supportive playgroup who will help you through the learning curve.

[leaden tide]

Eeee that Elspeth is so cute!

[lethal isle]

oh yeah my brother said "oh, this gift is actually for me"

gonna force us to learn jumpstart or something

he has some big avatar packs

[leaden tide]

Yess, jumpstart is a good way to learn the basics

Then once you understand how the game works, you can start getting slugged by your brother in Commander

[stiff horizon]

I like limited as an entry point to magic, provided the draft pod isn’t too salty
The card they include in booster boxes with the two color draft archetypes explained on it gives new people an understanding of what to look for, and as long as you brief them first on basics of the game I’ve had friends enjoy it

Though these were people with some tcg experience already from yugioh

Limited gives you a taste of deckbuilding and gameplay without any prior financial investment

[lucid jewel]

I dont like it because deckbuilding and playing the game are very different

I much rather giving someone Jumpstart or commander precons

Or both and starting with jumpstart

I also dont think being able to deck build is a requirement for playing magic

I feel like deckbuilding could be overwhelming for a fresh new player

[stiff horizon]

In a constructed format, especially commander, absolutely
but limited deckbuilding doesn’t overwhelm you with so many options because it’s only the stuff you’ve drafted/opened from one set, likely without that many especially complicated mythics or rares since most of your pool are commons and uncommons

[leaden tide]

In terms of limited, I feel sealed would be a better entry point than draft. As then you don't have to worry about the mini-game of picking the right cards.

And yeah I'd put both behind Jumpstart, as with Jumpstart you don't even have to worry about deckbuilding at all. It lets you learn how the game actually plays first, how turn order works, how to use interaction, etc.

[stiff horizon]

Yeah draft would depend on how chill the pod is

[leaden tide]

Building a sealed or a draft deck is relatively easy yes. But building one that won't just get its teeth kicked in every time requires considerably more game knowledge.

[lucid jewel]

I feel like for a lot of "entry into hobby" activities you wanna search for the least stress while also being representative of the hobby as a whole

And I just think deck building adds another layer that isn't nessiccary

[leaden tide]

Deck building is a rich and rewarding and important aspect of Magic, and shouldn't be something just ignored entirely for new players. But yeah there's lots of ways to learn the rest of the game without having to get into the nuances of deck building.

Technically it has a low skill floor, in that you just grab some cards that look fun to you and then add 2/3rds as many lands. But there's soooooooo much nuance to it beyond that, The skill ceiling for deck building is sky-high. Especially in Commander.

[turbid falcon]

Deck building is my favorite

But it's intensely difficult, especially in draft

Draft is deceptively difficult

[wanton hazel]

the super beginner product is the 'beginner box' and I think it's pretty good for people who have literally never played, whether you go on to limited, commander, or constructed it's pretty much either that or the Arena tutorial to just get the very basics

[lucid jewel]

I've only just been able to spot this set some lanes and some stuff that's open and other stuff. Draft is crazy complecated

I like how low the skill floor is for commander and jumpstart

Skill ceiling is so so high for commander tho agreed

[lethal isle]

yeah my sister might start as well - she says she needs friends 🤣

I guess I could get a nice playmat too, now 🤔

[leaden tide]

There are so many gorgeous playmats out there

[lethal isle]

I know, I have to pick so carefully

but yeah the local game shop biggest events are for magic, they have Commander nights, so it'd be an easy way to get social

[leaden tide]

Indeed. Commander is often described as inherently social as a format. By default it has 4 players in a game when most other formats only do 1v1

In other words, yeah it's generally a good way to meet folks.

[surreal stag]

Arthur my GOAT

[lucid jewel]

One thing to note most poeple do push the cards all the way to the bottom of the sleeves

[tepid stirrup]

Emet is a pretty popular Commander

[turbid falcon]

Bought a box of Avatar for Christmas

[gloomy pagoda]

Just appropriate 17S funds for the Stormlight stained glass mat

[lethal isle]

I did that for the most part, just those cards were at the beginning of the process

[lethal isle]

I will get him one day 😤

[lethal isle]

I miiiiight want a final fantasy one ;)

[gloomy pagoda]

If there're any LGSs near you, it might be worth seeing if there's a place near you that'll do custom playmats

[lethal isle]

ooh...

[gloomy pagoda]

There's a place near me that does Canada-wide shipping and custom mats/sleeves/binders, but I always pick my orders up in person and have accumulated more mats than I need, so I can't comment on the quality of their mats or prices

[leaden tide]

There's a bajillion FF playmats/commanders, but compared to how big the game is, relatively few for FFXIV

[lethal isle]

rip

lll take a peek at what exists

[leaden tide]

Yeah it comes with them doing 16 mainline video games into a single Magic set.

[leaden tide]

May you crack some Badgermole Cubs, Wan Shi Tongs, and Walls of Ba Sing Se.

[molten maple]

Which art for Yuna?

[lucid jewel]

This one

The other one i would like if it was zoomed out a little

Also is she gonna be your commander ?

[molten maple]

Ive been using her as my commander for a while

Just considering if I should change the art

[lucid jewel]

Of the two full arts of her i much prefer the 2nd one you posted

[surreal stag]

I like the second one

Honestly how does that deck look is it just counters on good creatures ?

[molten maple]

Yes pretty much. With a lot of protection and counter spells to keep my guys alive

There are also good enchantments like terrasymbiosis/sphere grid etc that have counter synergy, and a couple combos

My fav combo is
defense of the heart -> tutors Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer -> devourerer eats half my deck, gets a huge number of counters -> devourer sacs itself and Yuna moves its billion counters to Triskelion -> Triskelion shoots my opponents in the face and I win

[surreal stag]

thats hilarious lol

[molten maple]

The final cards for my Azula deck should arrive tomorrow

[leaden tide]

Oooh exciting.

[molten maple]

It should be very strong, but the lines will be hard to see and its going to require a lot of precision with the stack...

So I think im gonna struggle with it a bit at first until I get used to the deck

[leaden tide]

Also from what I understand, Azula is rapidly becoming a kill-on-sight Commander.

So expect to be targeted as soon as she comes down.

[molten maple]

Well I designed her to be a bracket 4 commander

So yeah I expect shes gonna take a lot of heat

[turbid falcon]

I enjoy decks that require good piloting

[surreal stag]

You going storm or lots of flashy creatures?

[molten maple]

Pseudo-storm

[surreal stag]

Nice

[molten maple]

I dont technically have any storm spells, just lots of infinite combos

[surreal stag]

Same same but different

[molten maple]

Yup

[lethal isle]

ha, the four avatar packs my bro got for jumpstart got all four elements 💪

[surreal stag]

Nice

[lethal isle]

sigh

okay

this is fun

still learning but

[lethal isle]

i lost but still okay

[leaden tide]

Glad you're enjoying it! Yeah you'll probably need a few to start winning. It's not always the easiest game.

[lethal isle]

oh no me and my sister are "playing" each other, bro was helping us both equally, i just had a couple 6 mana cost immediately in my hand but my sister drew some stuff that was effective immediately

with more hp/longer game i maybe could have rallied because i have LOTS of flying creatures but she didn't

[stiff horizon]

maybe should have taken a mulligan, but it's hard to say without seeing the hand

[lethal isle]

maybe! i started with four lands and only one 6 mana cost cards to start

now i know a little more

[lucid jewel]

Good luck in your next game, flying is sometimes in 1v1 modes like jumpstart really powerful

[turbid falcon]

Evasion is almost always good

[storm rivet]

I just build my first deck. would anyone be interested in giving me some feedback?

[plush bear]

Sure

[storm rivet]

https://archidekt.com/decks/18452843/esper_enchantments

[plush bear]

You may want some more enchantment targets

[turbid falcon]

Just what I was thinking

I'd recommend adding necrodominance or necropotence

[plush bear]

Nah, a bit too weird for a beginner

[storm rivet]

I don't really like exiling my graveyard because I have a lot of ways to take things from my graveyard onto the battlefield or back into my library

[plush bear]

Whats that enchantment that gives -4/-4 on enter called again?

Good emergency removal

[storm rivet]

what removal would that be better than? I already have a fair bit

[turbid falcon]

Copy land is a fun add that I think should be played in more decks
I'd also recommend adding more pillowfort enchantments

[turbid falcon]

Weird? Powerful, very powerful
Zur + Necropotence is a legendary combination

As for removal, lean more into the enchantments like the one that turns a creature into a bug

[turbid falcon]

They're extremely hard to deal with

[storm rivet]

I've got that one

[plush bear]

Imprison in the Moon is a great way to deal with Commanders

[turbid falcon]

Yeah exactly

[storm rivet]

I've got imprison in the moon too

[turbid falcon]

So I'm recommending more removal like ot

Witness protection is another kne

Also it's funny because legitimate businessperson

[storm rivet]

I've got 14 card of removal currently

would it be better to have more enchantment/aura-based removal instead of something like anguished unmaking or void rend?

[turbid falcon]

Almost definitely

It allows you lock down blockers on attack with Zur

Also for your protection, focus just a bit more on protecting your commander cuz he's a monster

Id also like to say I like some of your picks, a bunch of em are cards I haven't really seen played in a long time

[storm rivet]

Here is what I got so far in terms of enchantment based protection: Kaya's Ghostform/Gift of Immortality/Shielded by Faith/Harvestguard Alseids/Karmic Justice/Steel of the Godhead/Fungal Fortitude if I want protection for Zur or another creature. For enchantment removal I have Darksteel Mutation and Imprisoned in the Moon. The trigger only reqires that Zur attack, not deal damage, and all of the protection allows him to do that for at least a turn if not more. I also have Necromancy and a whole lot of ways to take him back (as well as any of my enchantments) into play from the graveyard

I could add more but I'm, not sure when it is just unnecessary

this is all before any of my counterspells/spot removal/board wipes

[turbid falcon]

I think just focusing a bit more on the strengths of your commander will make it a lot more resilient and gnarly to play, while also requiring good knowledge of the deck to play the best card at whatever time

Next I recommend play testing

I play test decks extensively to check how they feel

If you need to test it against other decks, try running it against some other decks on archidekt

[storm rivet]

how does that work?

[turbid falcon]

There's tons of decks on there

Just boot em up in 2 tabs and see how it shakes out

Play testing is the way to best understand your deck before making dubious financial decisions

At least that's my usual process

My usual deck building process goes

1. Get an idea
2. First draft from research and personal collection
3. PLAYTEST
4. Refine deck list, purchase
5. Play against other people
6. Final refinements