Magic: the Gathering

[lucid jewel]

I think this is the correct way to think about it as well

For things to be relatively fuzzy on the boundaries

[tepid stirrup]

I think that's an absolutely fair take, but this version is pitching itself as a rule zero tool rather than a sort of rulebooky sort of approach, which is why I like it

The five different brackets are also substantially more clearly five kinds of tables you could reasonably find yourself at

The "Core" section doesn't quite say its the "Do The Thing" table but its the Do The Thing table

Bracket 1: Goofy theme decks
Bracket 2: Do The Thing decks
Bracket 3: Reasonably good game night with friends / LGS decks where you want to win but not be mean about it
Bracket 4: Mean decks for a no holds barred table
Bracket 5: Decks specifically designed to win in a competitive environment

[charred ruin]

Yeah me and my friends are definitely trying to hit threes, just some of us are much better at making decks than the rest of us

Well okay if I'm being fair, one of them is good at a specific playstyle and the other is the one who makes tons of decks and sees what sticks, with good ones almost always ending up green or gruul stompy archtypes

[plush bear]

Yep

And it has none of those

It’s basically Obeka plus a ton of obscure upkeep stuff

[tepid stirrup]

I don't really think new players have any business at a 3 or up table generally

[plush bear]

But I’d still rate it a bracket 3 when it comes to power level

[tepid stirrup]

I suppose if you had 4 players who were all new

[lucid jewel]

Are precons always firmly 2's

[plush bear]

Depends

[tepid stirrup]

I think the problem with precons is many of them were made before the bracket system existed and as a result don't necessarily fit neatly into this paradigm

[plush bear]

Precons vary wildly in power level

My angels precon would be a good 6 in the old system

[gloomy pagoda]

I think most of the Commander precons slot in at 2, with a handful of "what do you mean they printed this?" precons that clock in at 3

[charred ruin]

Yeah most of the crazy old ones are probably threes but the average one these days is an easy two

That can generally be upgraded to a three fairly easily

[tepid stirrup]

https://x.com/wachelreeks/status/1980686295354732616

Rachel Weeks (@wachelreeks)

We also removed a few cards from the GC list, including:

Expropriate
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Sway of the Stars
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Urza, Lord High Artificer
Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow
Winota, Joiner of Forces
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Deflecting Swat
Food Chain

X · Oct 21, 2025, 5:23 PM

[plush bear]

What the hell

[tepid stirrup]

Yeah this is bizarre

[plush bear]

Winota and Kinnan are two of the most absurd commanders, then also Deflecting Swat and Urza

[tepid stirrup]

Urza and Yoriko I can see the excuse of like "there are tier 1 decks that could run these for The Vibes" but like cmon

[plush bear]

Urza is just fun

Spin it to win it

[tepid stirrup]

Urza is mean

[plush bear]

My artifacts deck runs him in the main deck and it’s so fun when he sticks

[leaden tide]

Meanwhile at my Target:

[lucid jewel]

I do find it funny how universes and mtg can both have tmnt

But marvel snap and mtga cant both have spiderman

[leaden tide]

That's confusing. Sway of the Stars sure, but some other stuff on that list is pretty powerful.

[charred ruin]

Maybe Yuriko but yeah most of those are truly awful cards to play against

[surreal stag]

Then do that. It sounds like it meats those requirements.

[plush bear]

Except it’s low card quality, slow, with obvious win conditions that require long board presence, and very little interaction

It doesn’t fit the requirements

[surreal stag]

Shoot you live in St. Louis too?

[charred ruin]

Language

[surreal stag]

Well then you’re being confusing lol. If you feel it’s a 3 but then discribe it like that you’re saying two different things

[plush bear]

In play it’s at the power level of a bracket 3. I’m criticizing their criteria because of that

[wanton hazel]

Final Fantasy still has its own card game and was willing to work with MTG

but I guess Snap paid for exclusivity and they have no reason to cooperate with the bigger brand

[tepid stirrup]

To be fair Squeenix isn't exactly what I would call consistent about how they choose to license Final Fantasy

[surreal stag]

this is an understandable complaint but there is no perfect bracket system unless they make it so damn complicated people refuse to use it IMO

[turbid falcon]

This seems well stated

[gloomy pagoda]

The boundaries are fluffy enough that brackets are supposed to be the starting point of the power level convo

[surreal stag]

the human element will always remain regardless of the bracket system. If you show up to a bracket 3 table and everyone there is understadning the honest evaluation of thier decks then your at the right spot

[plush bear]

I think this is just straight up inferior to the old “rank it out of 10 with vibes”

[turbid falcon]

It's supposed to facilitate conversation

[tepid stirrup]

And building the brackets around commonly understood intent of the table does seem like The Point, operating within rule zero theory of Commander play

[turbid falcon]

Uh, definitely not, everything was a 7 and there was no established anything

[surreal stag]

if people are just playing uber 3s in a high 2s low 3s pod then dont play with them anymore

[gloomy pagoda]

If you say "on paper it's a 3 but it runs like a 1", that gives people more to work with than "it's a 7"

[surreal stag]

or the opposite in this case

[tepid stirrup]

There's "Commander is a social game" (deflection of responsibility) and "Commander is a social game" (providing tools to lubricate social interaction) and I think this is a firm move toward the latter

[lucid jewel]

Humans are also super bad at judging the relationships between skill, luck, environment, knowledge, deck power and how much i hate you on that day

[surreal stag]

^

[turbid falcon]

When I'm playing with my friends the last point is indeed relevant

They've made a point of ALWAYS attacking me. No matter what

[surreal stag]

if you gave me my ygra deck 2 months ago id get mopped by precons. now im confidnet its a fun deck at a mid-high 3 table

[turbid falcon]

And I really can't disagree with their decision

[lucid jewel]

You just gotta start hugging the group more then

[surreal stag]

you just have to understand your own skill and trust that everyone else is also being honest

[lucid jewel]

Or know no one can ever be honest and run with that

Even when intentions are that they believe they are being honest

[tepid stirrup]

Embrace The Problem Status

[surreal stag]

you need new friends

[turbid falcon]

Perhaps I should, but I don't like playing group hug
I just try and become the problem

[surreal stag]

i retract my previous statement. if you activly seek to be the problem then thats the bed you made

[plush bear]

I think all blue decks should run Hive Mind just for the chaos

[lucid jewel]

I dont mean it like that more like ppl cant be honest because they dont know what they cant analyze kinda thing

[lucid jewel]

Yaa 2 options hug the group or start running decks that are set up to make others angryier

[surreal stag]

i was tlaking to Steeldancer but for some reason my respone tag didnt stick idk lol

[lucid jewel]

I really wanna make a discard, villainous choices davros deck that focuses on becoming the problem asap then making sure they cant destroy me

I have the precon

Just need to work on upgrades

[turbid falcon]

When I feel picked on I pull out my flubs deck

It's a monster of a deck

It's my mid 4 tier deck

It can win as soon as turn 4 or 5, and is ultra resilient

https://archidekt.com/decks/8804969/flubs_land_storm

[lucid jewel]

Flubs is such a fun commander too

You live on the edge and just vibe with your deck

[turbid falcon]

Sometimes the deck gives and sometimes it just doesn't

Makes it still fun to play despite how powerful it is

[lucid jewel]

Yaa you are always doing things always being active but unless you storm off you aren't taking massive turns every turn

[turbid falcon]

It's also funny because what you see is what you get from the deck

[lucid jewel]

Which is what I hate with some decks of the storm land or the spell slinger veriaty

[turbid falcon]

It's almost pointless to run very much removal, because it'll either get used or discarded

But flubs does tend to take a single massive turn before winning

It's a matter of generating enough value, making an army, and then giving it all haste

Or doing direct damage

[lucid jewel]

Im sure theres some turns you take as well imbetween that are like I think im popping off but the deck wifs after playing one or two cards

[turbid falcon]

Oh yes

My playgroup will be like "oh no he's going off" and I'll play some lands, and... Pass turn

[lucid jewel]

Lol

[charred ruin]

Me and one of my friends have a longstanding rivalry in Commander games (he's one of the two who wins most games, and I play aggro so I'm usually swinging at someone while everyone else is setting up so I choose to punch him)

When he ends up with the first attack, he punches me in recompense

[charred ruin]

The same person also made this. His Commander was Alela who is a terrible card (like yeah she has some uses but this isn't very good except maybe into a Voltron player) but he took a powerful Dimir shell of Commander staples and interaction, made all the creatures faeries, and ended up with a deck that looked strong on paper and could salt farm pretty well, but wasn't actually very good

We ended up calling it the paraplegic power suit since it used powerful cards to juice up a bad Commander

Meanwhile we also have the opposite, where the other player who regularly wins made an Omnath deck that spams mana dorks. It wasn't that strong at first and then he put a couple of trample enablers in the deck, which transformed it into a nightmare of almost unstoppable ramp that one-shot anyone

[lucid jewel]

Omnath has come a long way since then

[surreal stag]

as a green enjoyer i dont see the fun in Omnath

make the biggest number seems boring

[granite whale]

Are the removal of GC for Winota, Urza, and Yuriko reasoned as they are only as oppressive as the deck they are commanders for? Because I can see that I guess? The decks would have to be restrained by the bracket guidelines to not run away with games.

Only one I have faced is Yuriko and that deck runs away with games so fast. Ninjutsu commander bypassing commander tax makes it hard to stop too.

[wanton hazel]

that's something that's listed in their article, yes. Because you know from the beginning of the game who the commander of the deck is and can build your rule 0 conversation around them

[granite whale]

And still my boy prime time remains banned. The hipocrisy 😤

[leaden tide]

Lol this is Montana

I can't even remember the last time I saw a booster pack in store, it's just been the Foundations boxes for like a month

[surreal stag]

i stop at the TCG shelves every time we go and all i see is Spiderman, and the awful pokemon products

[heavy jasper]

My target doesn’t even have any Magic the Gathering cards anymore 😭

[turbid falcon]

I disagree on the removal of Urza

Doesn't matter if it's a commander, it's STILL game changing in the 99

[lucid jewel]

https://i.imgur.com/2CfM6xr.png i might need this

[surreal stag]

played ygra last night and i kid you not. i had Ygra, Vraska, and Thornvualt forager as the only creatures i drew, the game lasted 12 turns, i basically only hand lands and ramp

[lucid jewel]

Ygra went home hungry last night

Smh

[surreal stag]

i mean at one point i did cast it and the fade from history. but i never got to swing my 36/36 cat

[lucid jewel]

🫂

[surreal stag]

got to play the Arthur deck too and made some mods. feeling pretty good about this being a fun deck i main

my buddy has been working on a Lotus field land/ramp package that i think will fit the Arthur deck really well i just need the free time to commit to learning it and building it

[heavy jasper]

I got the Terra precon but when I opened it, I saw a collector sample booster and got really excited! I opened it… to get a foil Terra

[wanton hazel]

That’s more common than you’d think

I don’t think those sample packs are meant to be particularly interesting

[surreal stag]

Now you have one for the front of the deck box and one to play

https://tenor.com/view/tyler-hynes-hynies-winter-in-vail-win-its-a-win-gif-19995828

[granite whale]

I bought all 4 precons and those "samples" only had cards that are in one of the four decks. Pretty sure they were seeded to have that

[wanton hazel]

I think they were at least dramatically more likely, I'm struggling to remember whether I got one main set card

[leaden tide]

Another big value Avatar bonus sheet card.

This one is "only" $17

[lucid jewel]

Just watched that epp last night

I also LOVE so much that they have the epps on the card

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Kinda wish they'd done it for the normal cards too though.

Instead, I'll just sort through them on my own.

[leaden tide]

Oh dear lord this looks abusable

[gloomy pagoda]

This set better have a Fireball reprint

[leaden tide]

Fingers crossed it's one of the bonus sheet cards.

Sadly it doesn't combo with this card at all because it's sorcery speed. Need a quicken effect to make that happen.

However

There's still a lot of good things you can pump that mana into. https://scryfall.com/search?q=mana%3A{X}+t%3Ainstant

[upper moon]

atla ||I'm sure there will also be an ozai card with firebreathing for flavor tbh||

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||Or maybe Iroh. Or both.||

[sleek valley]

Bonus sheet Comet Storm would be wild with that.

[leaden tide]

So. Maybe @thorn maple or another mod can help with this, but what's the spoiler policy here for crossover cards? I ask because the Avatar preview season starts tomorrow, and there's already several cards that spoil somewhat important plot points. Tagging discussion makes a lot of sense to me, do we as a channel also want to spoiler the cards themselves?

Just asking because we've played it somewhat loosey-goosey with what we do and don't spoil here in the past.

[thorn maple]

Could you post a card under a spoiler tag for example?

Tag it [ATLA card] or something

[leaden tide]

These three at a glance all depict fairly important story moments. (ATLA all)

[thorn maple]

Yeah I would say if the art or flavor text depicts an event from the show or a character in a manner that spoils their arc then it should be tagged, in this example as [ATLA]

A card thats just Aang doing a pose with a generic quote of his is ok

[leaden tide]

Oh and let's not forget this set of panorama cards that depicts the literal last scene of the series.

[wanton hazel]

I think that’s kind of valid but like, if you didn’t tell me that’s what it depicts I would have thought nothing of it

In that sense I don’t know if it’s necessary to be too overzealous?

I’d also hesitate to enforce it because if I posted something like that without knowing it was a spoiler, and was corrected, that in itself is a spoiler?

[leaden tide]

Yeah that's why I wanted clarification from the mods.

[wanton hazel]

I think it should really just be a personal courtesy/judgement call

Just speaking as someone who never watched it and would have no idea what is or isn’t a spoiler

[thorn maple]

I would say if you are unsure then it's better to just tag it

but that's a valid point, maybe they should all be tagged

[leaden tide]

Tbh I think the danger mostly lies for people who are in the middle of watching the show.

For people who haven't seen the show, the spoilers aren't going to make much sense without context.

As jmcgit pointed out for the scene box.

[thorn maple]

basically I would say if you aren't sure then assume it's a spoiler

if you know for a fact it's not a spoiler you don't have to tag it

[wanton hazel]

Honestly I think that will probably still trip people up, just because of things like the example from earlier, never in a million years would I have guessed that it was even possibly a spoiler and yet apparently it is

If we’re gonna try to keep it entirely spoiler blocked I think you’d just want to say every Avatar card, blanket rule

And I think if you said something like only people who have watched the series and know what is and isn’t a spoiler could post them untagged…. Just messy

So I think I’d suggest, either everything, or keep it to the clear, obvious, and major

[thorn maple]

I would say in that case you aren't sure and there for should assume it's a spoiler

[wanton hazel]

I just think that gets very confusing, because the de facto policy becomes ‘only people who have finished the show can post Avatar cards untagged’

[thorn maple]

I think that's how we treat media in other channels?

[wanton hazel]

I don’t necessarily object, I just advocate for a more consistent approach if that’s the way we want to go, which is every card gets tagged unconditionally

[leaden tide]

Imo it's more complicated with Magic cards because they're also game pieces.

Like, someone could be looking for deckbuilding stuff and post an Avatar card to ask whether it'd be good in their deck and not even pay attention to the art/flavor.

[thorn maple]

I'll kick this up the chain

so expect a more concrete answer in a bit

[wanton hazel]

Main argument is that there are going to be a fair number of people here who play with the cards but have no honest way of knowing which art may or may not depict a spoiler

Some of it looks super harmless but may matter

[leaden tide]

Thanks. I know personally, as someone who's watched the show, my best judgement would be to just go all or nothing with spoilers. With a preference towards the former.

I think a reasonable policy for the channel overall would be:

• Cards should be spoilered before the set release (or at least before the pre-release weekend)
• Cards don't need to be spoilered otherwise
• Discussion of flavor/story of a UB card should generally be spoilered.

[wanton hazel]

I agree that sounds reasonable,

I think the analogy that comes to mind for the box art would be like saying the cover art of a book is a spoiler. And honestly, you could make a valid argument out of that position, but at the same time, is that a little too far?

[lucid jewel]

That feels like the most reasonable way to do it

Just with the general way this works too

[thorn maple]

Cards don't need to be spoilered otherwise
so you think the cards you posted earlier wouldn't need to be spoiler tagged?

[leaden tide]

Yeah like, there's just a certain low-grade spoilering to be expected from just existing in pop culture. Sure you can do stuff like the Year of Sanderson where you try to keep even the book titles a secret, but it was tedious.

[lucid jewel]

Spoilered now but not once the spoiler period was over and the cards have been fully announced

[leaden tide]

Correct. I think they should be spoilered, but not for story reasons.

As for after the set has been revealed, I don't think they need to be spoiled. I would hope that anyone currently watching AtlA or planning on watching it soon would already understand that there's a risk of spoilers if they go looking at cards from the set.

[lucid jewel]

Its simular to like when star trek comes out and spoils some shows from a simular time period

[wanton hazel]

I think the same would apply to practically any UB cards, too. Like, does the Sephiroth card ‘spoil’ a boss battle in FF7?

[lucid jewel]

Does the doctor from voyager in specific situations spoil the plot totally

But only if you know the things from the show

[thorn maple]

ATLA ||I think this card spoils the show pretty majorly for anyone who has seen even the first episode so I'm not sure your example is an apt comparison||

[leaden tide]

Like I said before, I would hope anyone currently watching or planning on watching soon would understand that "here be spoilers" in the set itself.

[thorn maple]

yeah, I think you and latter are making slightly different arguments in favor of the temporary spoiler period

and just to clarify, you think the temporary spoiler period would just be for mechanic reasons?

[leaden tide]

Yes. I think it should apply to all regular Magic sets, just in case there's anyone here who wants to avoid seeing the cards until they're opening them during pre-release events.

Idk if anyone currently here likes doing that, but I know that people who avoid card previews exist.

[leaden tide]

(I say regular magic sets because I don't think it matters for Secret Lairs and most other supplementals)

[wanton hazel]

Is it the art of this card, the name, the flavor text, or what? Just out of curiosity

[tepid stirrup]

All three

[wanton hazel]

Not super surprised! Spoilering card names might get tricky too when it comes to deck lists or something

[tepid stirrup]

Yeah

I think:

• It becomes real difficult to talk about MTG when soon-to-be more than half the cards in standard are UB if all UB cards have to be spoiler tagged, but also
• I don't know that I'm super thrilled with the idea of "spoilers are at your own risk if you wanna engage with MTG" being just blanket the policy either

[lucid jewel]

It has been messy in here

[tepid stirrup]

It fundamentally is messy and that's nobody's fault but WotC

[lucid jewel]

Would be good to have some sort of good robust spoiler policy and I think glams makes the most sense

[tepid stirrup]

Casually, the FF set spoils a great deal of the games they cover and almost especially 14, which is normally fairly robustly protected by spoiler policy

[wanton hazel]

I’m inclined to say ‘tag only clear and obvious spoilers’ but that’s something that leaves a lot of holes that some people might care about

[tepid stirrup]

People also might just not know

[wanton hazel]

That’s part of what started this, like apparently there’s a product that shows the final scene of the series on the cover? But to me it’s like, at least two Stormlight books arguably have non-trivial spoilers on the cover, some things are unavoidable

Like that product, I never would have even considered the possibility that it could be a spoiler, it looks completely harmless to an outsider

[tepid stirrup]

It is the final shot of the show lmao

I'd say "I have no strong feelings one way or the other" to indicate that I can see things go either way but I think the reality is I do have strong feelings in both directions and I could see things reasonably going any which way

WotC has not left a lot of great options for places like this

[wanton hazel]

Yeah, my only strong feeling is that it should be either ‘basically everything’ is tagged or ‘only clear, obvious, and major’. I think the worst outcome is ‘only people who have watched the entire series and can definitively say this isn’t in any way a spoiler can post it untagged’

No strong preference between the two extremes but neither is entirely comfortable

[sleek valley]

I think spoiler tagging everything makes sense until the prerelease. Once we're at the point where you can go to an LGS/play on Arena and run into the card in the wild, trying to hide it in the thread feels very odd.

[molten maple]

Guys I REALLY WANT IT

But it's apparently only going to be available as a promo for participating in a commander box league?

I wonder how often they do promo cards like this, and if they usually are available on the second hand market when they are released?

I wanna know if ill be able to just buy one second hand or if I have to start looking for a LGS doing a commander box league...

[sleek valley]

People will absolutely resell them, but I feel like a lot of people will want that one and the price may be a bit high.

[molten maple]

https://tenor.com/view/falling-walter-white-ffillingame-gif-21517984

[wanton hazel]

Do those box leagues have to be a current (UB) box? Sounds like you’re just buying a $200+ card

[molten maple]

I have no idea

This is what reddit said

[wanton hazel]

It could be fun if I enjoyed the set

[molten maple]

Tbh it doesnt sound fun to me and I do enjoy the set

But if thats what it takes to get the card... ill consider suffering through

Are there even 100 actually playable cards in a specific color combo per box set? Lol

[wanton hazel]

It’s actually 60 for this so who knows if there are 100? But they say even the dupe rule is suspended for it

[molten maple]

Ohhh ok

That seems a lot more reasonable

I take it back then, it might be kinda fun

Buying an entire booster box is a really high investment though...

[lucid jewel]

There's a reason im trying to have my kid finish avatar the last airbender asap

He is 12 and not really online but I dont want him getting spoiled either

So its more we gotta finish before release day more than the end of the prerelease content

[fierce dragon]

ngl going back to the spoiler convo like. I think having to spoil every UB beyond card is way too much for there to be discussion of the game, specially since like, not all of us know every property to know what a spoiler is

-# and at that point kinda just spoil every card

And it does get very messy, if someday when the cosmere gets more popular there is a cosmere set or mistborn for the movie or whatever it might need reevaluating

[wanton hazel]

Yeah, I mostly just don’t think there’s room for nuance given the amount of people who play Magic but don’t watch, play, or read some UB property

[fierce dragon]

you could argue that lots of not-ub cards spoil the magic lore but not like anyone cares enough about that

[lucid jewel]

There is tho a few ppl in this chat who care about that

[fierce dragon]

I dont mean they dont care about lore but more like

cares about not getting spoiled on the mtg lore by seeing random card art

[wanton hazel]

If it were just about magic novellas and such you could at least fairly implement a spoiler period or something, that’s not exactly easy with UB

[lucid jewel]

So a consistent "untill the full set is on scryfall or its fully out and openable then everything needs spoiler tags" seems a good balance

[wanton hazel]

I think spoiling the cards and spoiling the UB stories are separate questions

I know one of the mods earlier was more concerned about the UB stories

[lucid jewel]

I think beings consistent with every set is a clearer and better way to do it for a channel like this tho

[fierce dragon]

right, yeah, I think cards should all be spoiled until the set releases

[wanton hazel]

Yes, I think it should be consistent, whichever answer is reached should apply to LOTR, FF, Ninja Turtles, Spider Man, Star Trek…

[lucid jewel]

And lorwyn

[wanton hazel]

And UW for the card spoiler side

Like, if 17s were to decide it’s appropriate to spoiler Avatar/UB cards for story reasons, that need not apply to Lorwyn necessarily

[lucid jewel]

Thats my point tho. I think if we are spoiler tagging magic cards before their release the story point or the card mechanicaly point both demand us to imo do it for all sets consistently

Because the story for the magic lore stuff does matter to some

[wanton hazel]

Not talking about before release in this instance. Talking forever. Avatar cards spoil the Avatar show and thus must be tagged.

[lucid jewel]

Oh

[wanton hazel]

That’s on the table and under discussion

[lucid jewel]

Im not okay with universes beyond sets being forever spoiler tagged

That is not something I think works for this

[molten maple]

Agreed

[lucid jewel]

There needs to be some freedom of discussion of cards and decks and all that

[fierce dragon]

Sidenote: cant wait for the stormlight set with 30 kaladins 😌

[lucid jewel]

I would love a "you can have as many of this card in your deck as you want" card from the cosmere

But idk if it'd kal

Mabey its hoid

Like how they did the final fantasy guy

[fierce dragon]

make it be shallan

[lucid jewel]

That works too

[wanton hazel]

She might be the best fit

[sleek valley]

Hoid might be better for that sort of idea, but he would probably too close to the way they did Cid in FIN.

[wanton hazel]

The reason they did Cid like that is partially that he’s 16 different characters represented by one card

But this set isn’t SPM so they didn’t make 16 different versions of him

(Some CIDs fit the card better than others)

[molten maple]

I might actually die of excitement if they release a cosmere MTG set

I dont think its too far-fetched either

[wanton hazel]

I think Brandon may have indicated that a Secret Lair is firmly on the table when he’s ready but he’d rather hold out for a full set one day

[molten maple]

Thats valid

And I would agree with him

[wanton hazel]

idk if he’s popular enough to sell that idea quite yet but after a successful adaptation it becomes quite possible

Like universes beyond are mostly household names, and Brandon has a chance to get there but not quite today

[molten maple]

Hurry up hollywood

It all depends upon you

[tepid stirrup]

I think that window is very firmly closed

[molten maple]

I dont think its possible for any book series to be popular enough to justify a UB set at the moment without a movie/TV adaptation

Most people simply dont read

[tepid stirrup]

I don't think anyone in Hollywood is looking to open up a new can of worms wrt fantasy adaptation though either

[molten maple]

Ehhh I dont know about that

[wanton hazel]

It’s probably true that there won’t be a Cosmere adaptation in the next 5 years but I’d be surprised if it doesn’t happen someday

[molten maple]

I think Hollywood is always looking for new IPs to milk

[tepid stirrup]

New IPs maybe, but not fantasy. Not the way the bet on GoT clones has gone in the last ~3 years

[wanton hazel]

I think Stormlight could quite possibly never happen, and that it would depend on a successful Mistborn adaptation

[molten maple]

I dont think fantasy is going anywhere...

[wanton hazel]

But Mistborn, I think that’s destined to have a shot

[molten maple]

Hollywood will be scared for a little bit and then there will be a rebound

[tepid stirrup]

Fantasy adaptations were very rare before GoT, and since basically all the shows trying to follow in its footsteps have imploded to some degree or another I think that its likely that GoT will be written off as a fluke and Hollywood will re-consign fantasy to campy pulp

[molten maple]

Ehhhh

LotR and Harry Potter are two of the most successful movie series of all time

Fantasy adaptations are never going away, ever

[sleek valley]

I have a hard time seeing a live action cosmere project in the foreseeable future. I wouldn't be entirely surprised by an animated show at some point though.

[tepid stirrup]

Peter Jackson specifically talked about how hard getting money for fantasy was when he was accepting his Oscar and JK Rowling has historically eschewed fantasy, and not without cause

[molten maple]

Dune was pretty massive very recently too

[tepid stirrup]

Not to mention HP adpatations have done fair-to-middling as well

Dune is sci-fi

Like yes I know its fantasy, so's Star Wars, but not in Hollywood Executivese

[molten maple]

Sci-fi and fantasy have basically the same demographic though which is why they're often lumped together

[tepid stirrup]

They are, for books

Hollywood thinks about them very differently and always has

Hollywood really likes sci fi and is historically indifferrent-bordering-on-hostile to fantasy, until GoT

[wanton hazel]

I think that’s more true for adult-marketed content than YA, and to be completely frank I think they’d target a Mistborn adaptation to teenagers first

Unless Brandon stands in the way, at least

[leaden tide]

I feel like the nature of Magic's story is a bit different though. Because only like what, maybe half a dozen cards in a given set portray specific story beats. Meanwhile for something like Avatar, probably over 75% of the cards portray story beats. That being said, I personally don't think having to spoil those 75% of Avatar cards long-term is a practical idea.

[leaden tide]

Stormlight/Cosmere ||Definitely a card representing Sleepless Hordelings.||

[molten maple]

Im jusy waiting for them to reveal all the ATLA cards so I can decide who to build my commander deck around

Its gonna probably be Aang, Iroh, Azula, or Toph

[lucid jewel]

Oh yeah that is good idea too didnt think of that

[lucid jewel]

Im very much leaning towards toph or zuko

[lucid jewel]

ATLA card||https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/7/7/77e548c9-8bed-40c3-bcdd-9d97a82c885d.jpg?1755043842|| this is another really good option imo for a commander

or even just in the 99 of some spicy decks

[lime chasm]

I don’t play magic anymore but I’ve been tempted to grab a box of the ATLA set and play in a prerelease for it.

But FaB worlds are coming next month, which will not be cheap to attend, and I’m also curious about Riftbound + may grab a box of that if I find I enjoy the game and there’s product available.

[lucid jewel]

it is a set that gives me hope that they can do something like star trek with respect

[surreal stag]

i wish i was excited for star trek but much like Dr Who its a nothing burger for me

[lucid jewel]

where as im the opposite

Dr Who and Trek are such big parts of my life and always have been

that the overlap means im in deep with them both

[surreal stag]

I wish the best for you my friend

[lucid jewel]

i just wish they didnt have to alienate and frustrate so many other players

i wish it was easier to not engage with it if you didnt want to

[upper moon]

Yeah, id be fine with all ub sets if they weren't legal outside of a ub specific format or smthn

[surreal stag]

i dont mind seeing them at all and ive only been playing MTG for 4 months so im not really into the MTG lore so to me its just a big ass card game with lots of different stuff in it

[wanton hazel]

for me it's more the whole 'more UB sets than not' which just makes the standard format feel weird

[surreal stag]

a UB only format would be cool though

[wanton hazel]

it's not that bad now but it's coming and inevitable

[lucid jewel]

and too many standard sets in a year

[upper moon]

I guess thafs valid. For me a fair amount of the draw of mtg is the fantasy worldhopper theme, which some ub sets (and even universes within sets like new caprenna and cyberpunk kamigawa) break that sense for me

[lucid jewel]

i think the combined "you are getting more ub than uw" and "here is a set every 8 weeks"

[upper moon]

Which like, I'm fine just ignoring for the most part except for ones that interest me

But still does bug me that it is more of a focus than universe within and also is legal with it

[wanton hazel]

pretty much the only way to do it, buy singles not boxes unless you really like the set

[lucid jewel]

yeah mtg for me has always felt like a thing thats kinda this world hopper thing where we go to different planes and i wish we were more okay with that with out it "breaking the scancity" or "destroying the REAL magic lore"

[surreal stag]

the release of the sets efvery 8 weeks is just WOTC money printing soulless SOP now

[upper moon]

Well, I do prefer the worlds to stay fantasy worlds

[surreal stag]

which again doesn't effect me cuz i only play in TTSim but i still recognize how its horrible for those who play paper

[lucid jewel]

8 weeks might not be accurate btw i didnt calculate it, it just was the vibe it feels like about 8 weeks lol

[surreal stag]

yea its too fast regardless of the actual time

[wanton hazel]

52 weeks divided by 7 sets is 7.42 weeks per set

[lucid jewel]

fax

so i was wrong its less than 7.5 weeks per set

which sounds even worse

[surreal stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fed-powell-inflation-brr-brrr-gif-12054397209765222551

[wanton hazel]

indeed, you can't even get 2 months between sets

I can't imagine this oversaturation will work for them long term, all you're doing is training your customers not to buy

[surreal stag]

and as we have seen with D&D WOTC will just push out tired/uninspiried/reprinted content with reckless abondon for the sake of "buy my new thing"

i hope your veiw comes true

[wanton hazel]

sad thing is I don't think it even matters if I'm right, their strategy is contractually locked in for at least a couple y ears

we'll see what the strategy is come stormlight 6 or something

(picking up on the discussion from yesterday it'd be darkly amusing for the Cosmere to hit mainstream pop culture juuust after UB dies)

[surreal stag]

id be very happy if thats the case, if Cosmere hits MTG im doomed

[lucid jewel]

That would be funny like lets say 2035 rolls around and we have a live action movie or two and some stormlight TV series on the way and by then like ub is big dead

[upper moon]

Man, cosmere's the thing I want a ub set for the most . Would be pretty funny though for sure

[surreal stag]

im already looking at making my Arthur deck Cosmere proxy once i find a build im happy with

cuz i have a problem

[wanton hazel]

the secret lair for that would be something I'd never get just because I know I wouldn't get there in time

I've already soft-barred myself from buying more Cosmere merch and such

but I know I'd be tempted

[surreal stag]

it would be so over before it started even more so than the ones are now

[leaden tide]

Those are ones I want to build, but there's definitely versions of Aang and Sokka we haven't see yet.

I'm also curious to see what they do for Azula.

[leaden tide]

Exactly. Only buy sealed product if you're planning on doing something with it, like play a game of limited.

[upper moon]

Which is how I normally play mtg at this point tbh

Though I also just find it fun to crack packs

I never go in looking for specific cards though

[wanton hazel]

I pretty much just play limited and occasionally commander on paper, and standard on Arena

[leaden tide]

True, that is quite addictive.

Anyways, before the AtlA spoilers start in earnest today, here are a few of my crack hopium bonus sheet reprints:

• For episode 1-11: ||Bitter Feud, representing the two families and their feud.||
• 1-20: ||Blood Moon, representing the eclipse after Zhao kills the Moon Spirit.||
• 2-1: ||Lightning Bolt, representing Azula practicing her lightning bending.||
• 3-18: ||The Reaper King, reskinned as MELON LORD.||

[lucid jewel]

Okay that last one

I mabey need a proxy of

Even if it dosent come true

[leaden tide]

Yeah. I'm thinking it would also be fun to proxy a bunch of scarecrows with art ||depicting Toph's firebender golems||.

Anyways, here's a new card:

I think we might be getting two versions of Ty Lee, because (AtlA all) ||this one represents her after she finally revolted from Azula in season. Me thinks there will be one representing her in season 2 as well.||

[charred ruin]

Oh that's really funny

[leaden tide]

AtlA card:

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-cabbages-gif-5990800

[charred ruin]

I love that

[heavy jasper]

Me too! I have her reserved for a prerelease.

[heavy jasper]

||surely she’ll need a color to fit under an Azula commander deck? Prob red or colorless. I’m betting azula is red black. ||

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||I feel Azula is solidly a grixis (blue black red) identity. Schemeing and manipulative (blue), selfish and arrogant (black), angry and prone to outbursts (red). I think we'll get a book 2 version of her that's either black or rakdos, and a book 3 version of her that's Grixis.||

[heavy jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/pikanod-gif-17687159938092547682

[lucid jewel]

@leaden tide you were asking about sokka well heres a sokka commander

oh the pic didnt preview

thats better

[heavy jasper]

I hope we get ||another Teamaster Iroh that is a green commander ||

[heavy jasper]

Ooh that’s nice

[lucid jewel]

yaa that effect in the command zone is really nice

[heavy jasper]

Cost isn’t terrible either

[lucid jewel]

4cost commanders are imo right in the sweet spot

[molten maple]

OK this card is garbage but I love it LMAO

[heavy jasper]

~~I play Avacyn ~~

😭

[leaden tide]

A) That image is deepfried,
B) That makes a far better ally commander than Katara
C) Hot damn my boy Sokka

[lucid jewel]

THE IMAGE IS SO DEEP FRIED

[heavy jasper]

King slay 💅

[leaden tide]

I'm gonna slide him right into my Narset prowess deck actually, this is great

[molten maple]

Yes 100% agreed she fits it perfectly

Yall can someone ping me when they reveal Iroh/Azula commanders?

[lucid jewel]

Will do

[molten maple]

You are my GOAT

Ty!

[lucid jewel]

There's currently only a mono red iroh but its kinda a lame card nothing new yet today

[molten maple]

Yeah I saw it

And its only uncommon right?

I would be stunned if they didnt make a second Iroh

[molten maple]

LOL

OK that was fast

Ask and you shall receive I guess

[heavy jasper]

20 cards just popped up on Reddit and that was the one commander I was super keeping an eye out for

[leaden tide]

Oh well I guess Dimir instead of Rakdos. ||That makes sense, giving her red to represent her crumbling sanity after daddy sidelined her.||

[lucid jewel]

@molten maple @leaden tide ask and you shall recieve

[heavy jasper]

That second ||Iroh|| 🔥 🔥 🔥

[lucid jewel]

Also here's a better image of sokka

[leaden tide]

Notably, the first two Azulas do not have red in their Commander identity, as the red mana pips are in reminder text, not rules text.

[molten maple]

Wait so theyre releasing TWO Azula commanders? Cool

[heavy jasper]

Three

[molten maple]

!!!!!

[heavy jasper]

Three of most leads it seems

[leaden tide]

Huh. ||Lesson typal makes a lot of sense for Iroh. Wasn't expecting it at all though.||

[heavy jasper]

||it’s so cool. Might make an Iroh deck after I do Azula||

[lucid jewel]

A card called "legend of kuruk// avatar kuruk"

[heavy jasper]

Wait…

[molten maple]

Uggg Azula and Iroh both seems so fun. I cant decide if I want to do then, Toph, or Aang

[heavy jasper]

||Combining Firelord Zuko with Grand Lotus Iroh seems insane||

[leaden tide]

Yeah. With Aang notably getting (at least) four. ||There's this version of him, but I'm expecting at least one other version of him with Earthbending.||

[heavy jasper]

||5 type in the command zone, them two in play||

[leaden tide]

That would be a fun limited deck to pull off

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||I think we're going to get sagas/saga creatures of the 4 previous Avatars (Kuruk, Kyoshi, Roku, Yangchen), with the already-revealed Sozin taking the slot for black.||

[heavy jasper]

I’m betting ||mono black Azula is the prerelease I’m getting||

[molten maple]

Do they have the commander precons announced yet?

[lucid jewel]

More cards hype

[leaden tide]

AtlA doesn't have Commander precons

[molten maple]

Oh alright

[leaden tide]

It has jumpstart decks as the supplemental product instead.

They partially decided not to do precons because there's just too many characters who deserve them, and would requrie too many overlapping themes/color identities.

[lucid jewel]

Anything with aangs face as the set symbol is the regular set and the glider set symbol is the other stuff not in standard

Like Jumpstart cards

[molten maple]

Thoughts on the power level of the ||Fire Lord Azula|| card as a commander? It seems fun but unless I am missing something that would REALLY make it pop off it might not be very good?

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||Owie my feelings||

[heavy jasper]

Omg

[lucid jewel]

AtlA

[molten maple]

Wait this is cute!!!!!

[lucid jewel]

AtlA

[lucid jewel]

So cute

[molten maple]

Speaking of Mai have we seen a card for her yet?

[lucid jewel]

New commander staples reprinted

[plush bear]

I really don’t like a lot of the art this set, the style doesn’t fit Magic’s at all

[lucid jewel]

Lion turtle hype

[heavy jasper]

||firebending is built around building mana for in combat moves (the mana vanishes after combat). So it seems strong for doubling fire bending attacks ||

[leaden tide]

There's gotta be a way to go infinite with them

Also there go my hopes of a bonus sheet ||Reaper King reskinned as Melon Lord||

Also lmao at ||Aang being Marit Lage||

[heavy jasper]

As an example. The set has most of its ||firebending|| cards suiting this purpose.

[leaden tide]

No we have not.

[molten maple]

rip

[heavy jasper]

Another ||Azula||

[molten maple]

WHY ARE THERE SO MANY LOL

[lucid jewel]

What's the issue with this card ppl are complaining about it and I dont see it

[heavy jasper]

Gaslight gatekeep girlboss?

[plush bear]

Does firebending count as a red mana symbol for commander?

[heavy jasper]

Now I think ||THIS is my prerelease card haha ||

[leaden tide]

Each main character gets 2 or 3 cards in the main set, plus at least one card in the Jumpstart set.

[leaden tide]

No, it's in the reminder text, so it's not part of the card's identity.

[lucid jewel]

No

[plush bear]

That’s annoying

[leaden tide]

The people complaining about it clearly don't own an air-fryer

[heavy jasper]

That card seems better to go under another commander of that character

Then

[leaden tide]

I'd say the Jumpstart cards are not designed as Commanders.

[molten maple]

I am NOT complaining (ATLA) ||Azula is psycho but shes an awesome character and I love her (as a villain)||

[leaden tide]

The main set ones definitely, but the Jumpstart ones aren't meant to be the "true" Commander versions.

[leaden tide]

I just home there's more than the two (main set) Zukos they've shown off. ||My boy deserves it for all the character growth he went through.||

[heavy jasper]

||He needs an Agni Kai one for Firelord Azula||

[plush bear]

||He needs one specifically for his hair down look||

[lucid jewel]

This card ?

[heavy jasper]

No I mean ||Firelord Azula is her during the Agni Kai. Zuko has a jump from exiled prince to firelord||

[plush bear]

So, which wins, this or firebending when it decides whether the mana disappears

[leaden tide]

This one wins.

[lucid jewel]

Layers

[plush bear]

Because unlike most mana effects of that nature, firebending does specify it gets removed at the end of the phase

[leaden tide]

Firebending says you don't loose unspent mana until the end of combat. Once the post-combat phase expires, that mana then tries to leave your mana pool, but is saved by this card.

[heavy jasper]

I think this is built to counteract that for if you ||get a second combat turn||

[plush bear]

Ah

[heavy jasper]

So by design it’s meant to counteract firebending

[leaden tide]

That's reminder text, which is shorthand and not actual rules text.

[heavy jasper]

Or just to use firebending mana later

[leaden tide]

I suspect (but could be wrong) that the actual rules text for Firebending is something "you don't loose this mana as phases during the combat step end".

But the reminder text uses a shorter version because it's just a reminder.

[molten maple]

im pretty sure you do lose the mana when combat ends

[heavy jasper]

I’m curious about this Azula, specifically ||she can’t play red cards as commander, right?||

[molten maple]

correct ||which is super awkward since she creates red mana...||

[leaden tide]

Why?

As I just explained, the reminder text is not the formal rules text, so the actual rules text probably doesn't have the mana expiring at a set time baked in. It's just now how mana rules are templated.

[molten maple]

Because the description of fire bending says "this mana lasts until the end of combat"

[heavy jasper]

New card for my Tom Bombadil I’m building 😉

[molten maple]

Also they specifially printed a card where it states ||firebending mana DOESNT go away at the end of combat. Why would they make that card if it stayed by default?||

[heavy jasper]

I also saw some more ||saga creatures||

[molten maple]

thats sick, ||saga creatures are a good addition to the game imo||

[leaden tide]

We're not talking about the default in this case though, we were talking about ||The Last Agni Kai|| card. At least I thought we were.

[molten maple]

oh

I was talking about firebending in general

let me look up that card

[heavy jasper]

Ooooh

[plush bear]

||Ooo I love experience decks, I’ve always wanted to make one||

[molten maple]

yes im 99% sure youre correct about that card, sorry we were not on the same page there

[leaden tide]

||Melon Lord|| deserved better than this

[molten maple]

UGGGG

guys why did they make SO many cool cards for this set

[molten maple]

I cant decide who I wanna use as my commander

[lucid jewel]

[molten maple]

ATLA

||SECRET TUNNELLLLLL||

[leaden tide]

I hope there's ||A cave card in the set that has a Rogue's Passage type effect.||

[molten maple]

this card is OMEGA bad if im not mistaken but I like it anyways

[leaden tide]

I don't care if half the cards in the set are trash (I mean most usually are limited fodder), I want to collect them all and put them in a binder in chronological order.

[molten maple]

same

ATLA show spoilers + MTG set card spoilers

This commenter makes a really good point

So in regards to the set mechanics +some card spoilers ||firebending seems very strong BUT its going to burn you out of cards really fast so you really want something that will give you card advantage as well. I think therefore firebending cards that are also in blue (like Iroh and the Grixus Azula) are going to be at a really big advantage compared to other red color combos in this set||

[charred ruin]

||hmmmm I could see that, but the sudden bursts of temporary mana will also play very nicely with Red impulse draw (exile card, can play it this turn)||

[surreal stag]

Going in my ygra deck Idgaf

[surreal stag]

Love this omg

[lucid jewel]

White lotus tile

Sokka decks gonna go hard with this

[lucid jewel]

Impulse draw tho is huge in red, draw and discard is on some super cheap cards

so this might be an interesting commander ||https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54d762f6-e131-480f-b294-10f5a63d9c98.jpg?1761663279||

[leaden tide]

Hmm. Not sure I'd use it as a Commander, but that's a very useful card in the 99 of a lot of decks

[heavy jasper]

Stan her

[lucid jewel]

true some removal for 4 and some anti protection is always nice

[leaden tide]

IT'S BOOMERANG

[south gorge]

God dammit I don’t want to spend money rn 😭

[leaden tide]

Huh.

I am genuinely surprised this card isn't black, or at least dimir.

[lucid jewel]

it totally ahs dimir vibes but because of the reference to the show

oh wow that is so powerful too

[leaden tide]

And here's the obligatory meme secret lair:

[turbid falcon]

Anguished unmaking is particularly hilarious

[turbid falcon]

Who cares if it's bad

SECRET TUNNEL
THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS
SECRET SECRET SECRET SECRET TUNNELLLLL

Now all we're missing is "that's rough buddy"

[heavy jasper]

I want

[plush bear]

I love that

[molten maple]

||Are there enough lesson cards in the game to make him actually good? I feel like lesson cards are just so rare||

But I could be wrong

Ive only played for a few sets now

[heavy jasper]

Probably adding them with this release too

[molten maple]

If there is support for him he will he super good and is one of the commanders I most want to build

But atm until I see ||more lesson cards, my frontrunner is Fire Lord Azula||

[lucid jewel]

they are adding heaps of lessons with this set

[heavy jasper]

Yeah Imma build ||Azula || first

[lucid jewel]

https://scryfall.com/sets/tla?order=spoiled this page is more updated now

with good pics of everything

[molten maple]

Which one? ||fire lord?||

[heavy jasper]

Yeah

[molten maple]

Based

Ive got to think about how I wanna build her though. I think there are lots of ways to go

[lucid jewel]

cant wait to see what poeple do with this card ||https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/a/9/a98b1550-4609-4a2f-9371-4afe1cdc613e.jpg?1761666379||

[heavy jasper]

ATLA ||firelord is the most actually commanderish. I’ll probably start with whichever of the monoblack come in the prerelease kit and use that in my full multicolor Azula deck||

Prerelease

[lucid jewel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXdhqSktjng this is a video that came out today as well

the video gives a run down on the full series

big story spoils but like if you dont care this gives a great outline for everything

[south gorge]

Duck I want those dice

[plush bear]

Spindowns tho

[south gorge]

?

[plush bear]

They are spindowns, not real d20s

[heavy jasper]

Go to a prerelease!

[leaden tide]

Ugh why they gotta do this to me and make me want to collect them

[south gorge]

Grr money.

Magic really picked 1/4 franchises that will make me spend money

At the worst time.

[heavy jasper]

I want to buy the Zuko one 😭

[south gorge]

There’s no way 6 packs and dice is worth 50 to me. But the temptation

[plush bear]

What are the other ones?

[south gorge]

Cosmere, jurrasic park and one that would never happen

[plush bear]

But there was a Jurassic park one

[south gorge]

I mean full set

[leaden tide]

I'm having trouble placing which episode this is from.

[south gorge]

Unless I missed it

[leaden tide]

Yeah they've only done Secret Lairs

[south gorge]

I’d probably get it for the bit if they did a Yugioh secret lair

[charred ruin]

Probably season 2 ||when Zuko and Iroh are roaming the Earth Kingdom in exile. The one that involves stealing a horse bird||

||ostrich horse, horseclaw, chocobo, whatever||

[south gorge]

That is it yes

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||Yeah that was my thought too, I'm just confused as to why Momo's there.||

[lucid jewel]

I love when they do stuff like this AtlA cards

[molten maple]

AHHH I NEED IT

ITS PEAK

Im sad you cant use them in the same deck

[lucid jewel]

4 colour decks work

you just need a four colour commander

[leaden tide]

Can run a pair of strong partner commanders.

Kraum and Tymna, for example

[turbid falcon]

Holy that is SO COOL

[lucid jewel]

Big problem tho this version will be expensive as hell for the 3 of them since they probs only exist in collectors packs and they are decent mechanically

[leaden tide]

And tbh, the art of the middle card doesn't look that good on its own

Taken together though, they look amazing

Ya know, it's nice seeing how most of the main characters are getting a cool 3-color (or in Aang's case, a 4/5 color) Commander that represents them at the end of their journey and height of their ability.

Except for Katara. ||Poor Katara, her Book 3 card doesn't feel like her as a character at all. Would be a much better fit for her father than her.||

[molten maple]

Yeahhhh I dont understand the flavor on that card at all

[leaden tide]

My current copium/hopium is that maybe she gets a 4th card, ||representing her during the Southern Raiders episode.||

[molten maple]

Speaking of Katara ||its pretty awkward for her that a lot of the Aang Gang cards she would want to be paired with have red and therefore not in her color identity||

[leaden tide]

That's what the 5color Aang is for. So you can run whoever you want in your pile.

[leaden tide]

But yeah, Wizards, please give us a card representing Katara at this power level.
||https://tenor.com/view/water-rain-anime-avatar-katara-gif-14606400 ||

[plush bear]

||https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:qnp46ewuysrkfza7cpa4oghn/bafkreifdar6zifbpusdn5ylpzj2wctefrfdno2lfhcchv37q3mug7bfyau@jpeg||

This looks so sick

[south gorge]

Bruh why must magic be so expensive. It worse than 40k

[plush bear]

Capitalism

[surreal stag]

I’m excited to earthbend. Im more excited to try an earthbend package with Ygra. Play lands, earthbend lands, sac/eat lands, they go back to being lands. Swing cat

I don’t see it working but I will be trying

If the cat don’t work maybe gitrog? Landfall, earthbend, grave digging

[granite whale]

mhmm this card is perfect for one of my Kefnet builds. it has a loose "lesson/trial" theme of using weird cards against the table as challenges

[thorn maple]

What's the best name for these types of tie in sets that most people will recognize?

I see UB being thrown around but dont know what it stands for

[tepid stirrup]

Universes Beyond

As opposed to "universes within" which is WotC's collection of settings

[plush bear]

It’s the official name for non magic IP full sets

I would also include Secret Lairs if this is for an announcement

[lucid jewel]

Yep Universes Beyond is the offical name and what most call them

[plush bear]

Since those are often licensed IP too

[lucid jewel]

Secret Lair is the separate product that is a fomo based special secondary thing that's mostly unrelated reprints and new cards

[thorn maple]

Is "tie-in set" a good compromise rather than listing these?

The rule is specifically for them adapting external IP

[plush bear]

Tbh I’d say UB and licensed Secret Lairs

[lucid jewel]

Its probs good to say ub and secret lairs even tho secret lairs get spoiled right away and are never like in a spoiler period

[plush bear]

I’m guessing this is about spoilers about licensed content shown on cards

Like events from a show

[thorn maple]

Do both of those have stuff from nonMtG IP?

Or just UB?

[plush bear]

Yes. UB is always licensed, Secret Lairs are sometimes licensed

[lucid jewel]

Both like there are a bunch of secret lairs comming out soon to do with Playstation properties for example

[plush bear]

Secret Lairs are special editions of reprinted cards

Usually very small FOMO drops

[tepid stirrup]

Not new to MTG mechanically, is the difference here, as well as scale

[lucid jewel]

Some secret lairs are mechanically unique tho

[plush bear]

Those are the exception

[tepid stirrup]

Sometimes they're MTG cards as baseball cards, sometimes they're MTG cards with Fallout art

[thorn maple]

Rule Update

After some internal discussion we have decided that this channel's spoiler policy for Universes Beyond and Secret Lairs cards should mirror the spoiler policies of the rest of the media channels. This means that plot spoilers of the media being adapted must be tagged. A card has plot spoilers if the art or flavor text depicts an event from the show or a character in a manner that spoils their arc. If you are not sure if a given card is a spoiler, then tag it as a spoiler to be safe.

In addition to plot spoilers we are also formalizing the rule that cards from unreleased sets must also be tagged.

[lucid jewel]

Some times they are furbies on iconic cards

[thorn maple]

I've updated the channel description to reflect this. Please reply with any questions or clarifications

[plush bear]

So MTG lore spoilers are excepted?

[thorn maple]

Yes currently a random card from WotCs lore doesnt need to be tagged

Like, we arent requiring minis in warhammer that technically spoil lore to be tagged

That could change i guess but currently the rule is about the content of media properties that magic is adapting

[wanton hazel]

I genuinely think that’s the worst possible outcome just because there are cards that are at arguably spoilers that no reasonable non-fan would expect to be spoilers

Obviously I’m not privy to the discussions you guys had about that but I hope it was properly considered

It’s even worse because if someone posts a seemingly benign card and is told it is a spoiler, that correction is inherently a spoiler

I fully understand what the server is going for but that is not a good rule

[lucid jewel]

Erring on the side of stricter spoilers in this case, makes it harder to engage in the channel as it is usually used. Like how it was just said it.

I know this discord likes to err on the side of stricter spoilers but in this case I think its the worst option

[wanton hazel]

Like the kind of example discussed yesterday would consider the name of a card a spoiler because it uses the title of a character that they don’t begin the series with. But nobody who doesn’t watch Avater would know that

[thorn maple]

a nonfan would then have to tag it
I don't think that the ease of identifying something as a spoiler should really make it more difficult to post a card, you'd just tag it

[south gorge]

I mean that example very much is something that you should spoil as the minute the start watching they know it’s a spoiler

[wanton hazel]

Point is just that a better policy, if that is truly the intent of the server, is that everyone should have to tag every card, even if they watched the show and know it isn’t one

It’s not reasonable to say ‘you have to tag every card unless you watch the show’, it should just be ‘you have to tag every card’

It’s going to confuse so many people the proposed way

[plush bear]

Tbh I’d support just making this an All Spoilers channel, use at your own risk

[wanton hazel]

Me too but I accept the counterpoint. I just think the policy needs to be clearer and simpler

[lucid jewel]

Yeah i agree its an all or nothing situation with nuance that can be introduced around unreleased cards imo

[upper moon]

I personally think the sotuation of mtg stuff is fine, but all nin mtg properties must be spoiler tagged

Making the mtg chat of all things spoilers for every existing media that was adapted seems counterintuitive to me

Especially with how many ub sets are being made

[wanton hazel]

I think ‘all spoilers for everything’ is a step too far but I would treat card titles and art like book covers, perhaps they might spoil something when closely scrutinized, like the Oathbringer cover might to someone who just started Way of Kings, but you live with it

But if there is agreement that card art and names can be spoilers, it can’t just be case by case and only fans are allowed to discuss the set untagged

It’s nonsense

Perhaps a compromise could be to come up with a list of cards or products that need to be tagged

[tepid stirrup]

And re-update that list for each of the four UB standard sets coming out next year?

[wanton hazel]

Yes

[thorn maple]

Well to being with we don't want to have different spoiler philosophies in different Media channels since that's just confusing, generally this channel isn't meant to be discussing ATLA or any other tie in property
I personally do not really see how having spoiler tags on some cards makes discussion of the cards mechanics more difficult or how it really is biased towards people who have watched ATLA

[tepid stirrup]

That's an untenable amount of work I think

[plush bear]

The problem is that non ATLA fans will have no idea which cards are huge spoilers, so they have to tag everything

[thorn maple]

you are perfectly within your rights to tag every UB card that's discussed

whether or not you have watched ATLA

the current system basically should make it so that the minimum amount of tagging occurs while still not posting untagged spoilers

but again if someone wants to just tag everything so as to not have to think about it that's fine

[wanton hazel]

I don't think anybody wants to tag anything. The problem is that there are cards that no reasonable person who doesn't watch the show would expect to be spoilers, and so the policy becomes that they are required to tag everything.

[thorn maple]

yes, people who haven't watched the show and therefore don't know that something could spoil someone who is midwatch will have to tag all the cards

[wanton hazel]

you don't see how that's biased towards people who watch it?

[thorn maple]

no, as I've said I don't see how tagging is really onerous to do or to interact with

[tepid stirrup]

It certainly invites a degree of users-policing-each-other rather than users-policing-themselves

[wanton hazel]

I just think it's a mess

some people post some cards untagged, other people do the same and then someone say "hey that's a spoiler", it just gets confusing

[thorn maple]

if show-watchers posting spoilers untagged becomes a problem we will revisit these rules

[leaden tide]

Yeah I'd be fine with that in terms of story/UB spoilers.

[thorn maple]

I can pretty definitively say we will not be making a full spoilers channel for Media, especially not for a channel that is nominally about something else

[wanton hazel]

yeah I definitely don't think it should be 'full spoilers', like nobody should be discussing the story in detail, though I would have supported a limited exception for card names and art in this particular channel

[lucid jewel]

This peice of media tho is different to others its a game that we play with poeple in a competative format

This isnt a tv show

Or a movie

[wanton hazel]

I don't know if it's worth noting that this isn't technically within the 'media' channel group anyway

[lucid jewel]

Its so different in how you need to treat it

[lucid jewel]

This too

[wanton hazel]

it's in the tabletop-games section

[lucid jewel]

This isnt media its table top games

[thorn maple]

sorry, I have been using Media and Entertainment interchangeably

[lucid jewel]

It imo lessens the ability to adequately treat this channel how it needs to be treated to lump it in with other spoiler policies when other spoiler policies are vastly different channel to channel

[thorn maple]

when I've said Media I have meant Entertainment as in the category that #1404977592867487774 is in

[tepid stirrup]

I think its worth noting for the scale of the problem that probably 80% of the FFXIV cards from the FF set would fall afoul of the FFXIV channel spoiler policy

In that set generally, less but still probably a good half of them

[thorn maple]

the objective is that the spoiler policy in the Entertainment category is not different channel to channel

[tepid stirrup]

And that was over 300 cards

[lucid jewel]

Why is it important to have the whole category have the same spoiler policy

Confusion is easly removed when pointing poeple at pins

[wanton hazel]

tbf this is the 17th shard discord, not a Magic-focused discord, it's cool to have a place to discuss Magic but this doesn't have to be the perfect place for it

[thorn maple]

to reduce confusion and make it so that someone who is familiar with the spoiler policy in one channel doesn't come in here and get blasted with untagged spoilers for a show they might not even know MtG has a set for

[wanton hazel]

I don't mind the objective, I just don't think the implementation is good

a list to help non-watchers understand what cards are and aren't spoilers would be a big help

[lucid jewel]

Why would or should poeple assume that a category has exactly the same spoiler policy for every channel with in it

I think your assumption is invalid

[upper moon]

I think that the best policy is to spoiler tag all ub cards for their media to reeduce the confusion

still makes this chat safe spoilerwise

without the issues of "should I spoiler this?"

[tepid stirrup]

Again I don't think asking the mod team to constantly curate a list every time WotC pushes a UB set is A Real Thing That Can Happen

[wanton hazel]

it's something that could be updated when problematic, controversial, or unexpected cases come up

someone posts a card that doesn't appear to be a spoiler, someone says something, add it to the list

[thorn maple]

why would or should people know that they could see endgame spoilers for ATLA in this channel?

[south gorge]

It’s not like it’s minor things either it’s major major plot points

[plush bear]

If that person is an MTG player, they are going to be hit with those spoilers anyways through normal casual play

[molten maple]

Honestly I think if a card is out there in paper and on arena having to spoiler tag it in this channel is absolute nonsense

[tepid stirrup]

As time goes on, the problem is exacerbated because if someone didn't know there are Dr Who or The Walking Dead cards I wouldn't blame them

[molten maple]

And the spoilers you can draw from analyzing card artwork are going to be pretty minor anyways, since to a non-fan everything is out of context anyways

[plush bear]

But why does this channel have to be so spoiler conscious when a single MTG game at your LGS will spoil them anyways

[thorn maple]

ultimately this isn't a MtG server

[tepid stirrup]

Vaguespoilers are still considered spoilers as a general rule in the server

[molten maple]

Also: ATLA is what? 20 years old now? I feel like we've reached the point where being this insanely sensitive about spoilers is kind of goofy anyways

[tepid stirrup]

This isn't an LGS

[lucid jewel]

This is the core of it. Through normal casual engagement with the actual literal playing the game these spoilers will happen so why would discussing the game need to be walled off behind spoilers. Its not conducive to actually being able to play the game and discuss the game in a reasonable way

[thorn maple]

this kind of logic just doesn't apply in this server, this is not an MtG server it's an MtG channel on the 17th Shard server

something something Epic of Gilgamesh

[tepid stirrup]

Yall are talking me into thinking that UB/Secret Lair cards should just all be spoilered

[wanton hazel]

do it

[molten maple]

Yeah youre going to encounter these cards regularly while playing the game normally as intended with fully released cards

[wanton hazel]

it's a better policy, unironically, because at least it's clearer, more consistent, easier to understand

[molten maple]

And turns the entire channel into a wall of spoilered images 💀

[wanton hazel]

it does but a lot of channels on this discord are like that

[molten maple]

A great way to ruin duscussion

[tepid stirrup]

The unfortunate reality of where WotC has gone, I think

[wanton hazel]

like almost everything in the Entertainment section is a wall of spoiler tags

it's just the way it be here

[upper moon]

Yeah, I mean convos happen fine in tagged-spoilers with tags

[molten maple]

And this has never been a problem with FF or any other set why are we only starting to care about extremely vague, out of context spoilers now?

The policy is just bad

[tepid stirrup]

They might be out of context but many of the spoilers are fairly on the nose

Would not call many of them vague

[thorn maple]

it retroactively is a problem with any discussion of FF that were spoilers

we just weren't aware of that being a problem at the time

[tepid stirrup]

(Those of us who play FF were often prone to spoilering the cards anyway, I know I was)

[wanton hazel]

now is probably as good a time as any to discuss it and settle on something just because UB is going full steam ahead next year

[molten maple]

I understand and agree with spoilering discussion of the original series but artwork on cards should not be considered spoilers especially when everyone in this channel plays the game and will see the artwork of the cards while playing anyways

[tepid stirrup]

Not everyone who pokes their head in here is necessarily going to have even a baseline familiarity with MTG though

[thorn maple]

just to clarify, this policy isn't entirely set in stone but the "at minimum, spoiler cards will have to be tagged" and "unreleased cards have to be tagged" are going to be present in rules for the foreseeable future

[upper moon]

Yeah, I mean I think the population that only plays casually is pretty large

who won't necessarily interact with every set

[plush bear]

The casual population is massively skewed towards Commander players, which allows every set

[lucid jewel]

Then just put all universes beyond cards need to be spoilered period

If your not going to budge on removing spoilers for released cards

Middle of the road is the worst option

[molten maple]

None of these cards arts should really be considered spoiler worthy anyways because to someone who doesnt know anything about ATLA or whatever other property (who we are trying to protect from spoilers), the art is totally out of context and will mean nothing

[wanton hazel]

the people they are trying to protect are mostly people who have started but not finished the series

like they say there are cards that someone who watched one episode would be able to identify as signficant spoilers, even if someone who has watched 0 episodes would have no idea

[lucid jewel]

Mabey we shouldn't ever expect the less spoiler option from this server I guess

Just defeated that it is never the solution here to go with less spoiler tags

[wanton hazel]

yeah I think this is not the right server for 'ideal' magic discussion

[lucid jewel]

then again like with other channels less discussion will be had here in the hope to protect poeple from being spoiled or seeing things they don't want to

[wanton hazel]

I do hope they improve the policy but honestly I don't talk about specific cards in there that frequently so it might be less disruptive than we fear

[lucid jewel]

Like i get it too they are trying to compromise with the crowd who want just spoilers for unreleased cards vs spoil everything universes beyond

This middle ground is poop tho

[tepid stirrup]

I think that there's a good case to be made that the spoiler policy is more important here, as people might be inspired to engage with a new property for the first time by the set, like Glamdring with ATLA

[molten maple]

I mean spoilering the majority of cards pictures you post is going to be very disruptive

[normal shadow]

I would generally not expect that for any media besides Brandon Sanderson, yeah.

[wanton hazel]

problem with that idea is that those particular people have the cards already

[tepid stirrup]

Mildly disruptive. It isn't that hard to engage with

[lucid jewel]

I just mean the choice is always "if discussion about spoiler, or thing someone wants in spoiler tags" "then put more spoilers"

With this server, generally

[wanton hazel]

honestly, 'oh hey that card you came here and wanted to talk about? It's actually a major spoiler for the end of the series' is probably worse than just doing nothing

[tepid stirrup]

Glam went out of his way to watch the show at an aggressive pace to not spoiler himself

Before the set came out

[wanton hazel]

(part of why I think it should just be all UB if that's the way we're going to go)

[leaden tide]

But tbh, this channel is. Having more media-conscious and tailored spoiler policies in different threads feels to me like it could be one of the main benefits of having said siloed off discussion places.

[leaden tide]

That was a personal choice on my part. I knew that it was just going to be a *thing* with the set coming out, and wanted to put the onus of the spoilers on myself, and not everyone else in the channel.

[wooden locust]

The policy already is a compromise tailored to MtG, in pretty much any other thread in this category the rule would be that any card period has to be tagged because of the game's own stories

Limiting it to only stuff with spoilers for other media is an attempt to balance respecting MtG discussion needs with the fact this is not an MtG server and we do not expect people poking their heads in a new thread for the first time to be fully caught up on an ever-growing list of properties that they may not even be aware of

[wanton hazel]

I think it’s valid in theory, it’s just really really hard in practice given the amount of cards that may be spoilers but don’t appear to be

There really needs to be a list or something if that’s the way we’re actually going to go

[lucid jewel]

I also believe theres a difference here because they are game peices that we need to use to compete in a game

And I believe theres a difference here because of that

[south gorge]

idk i can't speak to other siries like FF but avatar as a piece of media isn't a series that expects in media to be spoiled. Its a long running story arc with distinct character beats, subversions, and the sequence at which you learn things is important. Something like 40k, comic, and even most startrek expect you to experience them out of order or to just acclimate to the expierence whenever. Some of these cards spoil major story beats. Avatar isn't something like LOTR which is a cultural icon were its place in the cultural cannon is entrenched heavily enough that its expected that you know it. I can't think of a card ive seen that spoils major story beats in such a way nor that would engender such a response.

And you can always click on spoilers

If your worried that clicking on a spoiler will reveal a spoiler then just don't

[wooden locust]

Our expectation was that "If you are not sure if a given card is a spoiler, then tag it as a spoiler to be safe." would cover this, but given how many evidently don't feel it does we can talk about it

[wanton hazel]

I just don’t think that’s a practical policy, given the number of cards that no outsider would even suspect

[leaden tide]

As others have pointed out, that functionally becomes "people who haven't played/watched the thing should just spoil everything."

[wanton hazel]

Mistakes will happen and the question is what then? Because correcting them is also inherently a spoiler

[leaden tide]

And at that point, it feels like less effort for everyone involved, users and mods, to just spoiler everything.

At least everything Universes Beyond.

[south gorge]

||Any card that has fire lord in it that is not ozai is a pretty safe bet ||Avatar all

[wanton hazel]

Exactly this. If the outcome is that outsiders have to spoil everything, then everyone should

The only alternative I can think of is a list, but it’s valid to say that’s just more work?

[lucid jewel]

This is where I'm at if theres no room to move towards spoilering only before cards are released which dosent seem possible with what the mods have said

[leaden tide]

Certainly, it's a very messy situation and we have only Wizards to thank for that. But I think it's best to go with a policy that doesn't complicate things even more than they are inherently.

[wanton hazel]

Maybe it turns out that Avatar is the only set that has major spoilers in cards that appear to be harmless, and if that turns out to be the case than maybe the planned policy could work

[lucid jewel]

I just dont see that happening

[wanton hazel]

But given Final Fantasy, I doubt it

[lucid jewel]

I see things having to be major spoilers, to be good cards for specific properties. Like if a severance set came out

[leaden tide]

There's several Doctor Who cards that are MAJOR spoilers. I don't see this happening any time soon lol

[lucid jewel]

There's also rather large star trek spoilers

[south gorge]

Im not sure there are that many

[lucid jewel]

So many ?

[south gorge]

I can think of like 10 things that really count and most are in DS9

[wooden locust]

Pretty much yes, that's usually how it goes if you're talking about media you haven't seen
But we'll talk about if formalizing tagging all of it might be better

[lucid jewel]

Voyager || seeing the doctor outside of the sick bay is the 1st that comes to mind|| but theres plenty more

Trek has plenty of spoils

[wanton hazel]

It is such a unique problem where people are expected to be playing with spoiler images of something they’ve never seen and possibly never will

[leaden tide]

Yeah. It's really weird.

[south gorge]

The cards i think contain spoilers that people would want to avoid are ||fated firepower, redirect lightning, secret of bloodbending, Yue the moon spirit, iroh grand lotus, energybending, epic downfall, dai li indoctrination, heartless act, last agni kai, allies at last, azula cunning usurper, fire lord azula&zuko, and hama the bloodbender||

avatar all

[leaden tide]

In other channels, there's the expectation that if you're discussing spoilers, you're either interacting with the media in question, or you are knowingly spoiling yourself anyways.

Meanwhile it doesn't matter if you've seen Doctor Who or ever intend to, you or your opponents will play Farewell all the same.

[south gorge]

while that would make my list its def a way more minor spoiler than anything in this set

[wooden locust]

It's definitely a bit of an awkward thing to make rules around yeah

I wouldn't blame a Magic-centric server for just doing everything untagged

[wanton hazel]

Sort of a no good options thing, I think tag it all just makes sense for this particular server, even if an ideal Magic channel would just treat all art and card text as fair game

[lucid jewel]

Most take the route of having pre release channels to share and discuss pre release cards. Then not allowing them to be discussed outside of that. Then just allowing all images of all cards if they have been releasrd

[wanton hazel]

I don’t think spoilers card art being fair game is on the table here

Reasonable to want that but it’d be somewhere else

[lucid jewel]

No it seems not but I was just saying what they do

To clarify how it works in those servers

[leaden tide]

There's not really any good options, but as I've said before, we can at least try for one that's relatively straight forward.

Which gives us the options of all or nothing, pretty much.

[wanton hazel]

Because yeah for magic, the ‘spoiler’ is for the card, including the text and mechanics

[heavy jasper]

I mean I’d think if you’re in the MtG thread you are likely to see these cards in active play anyways, right? So maybe up to the release to avoid spoilers for mechanics but not after that

[wooden locust]

I think the simplest solution is to repurpose this channel to be about actual witch gatherings

[lucid jewel]

This was my thought but it dosent seem to be on the table

[mild plover]

Time to break containment

[wooden locust]

Wait no then we'd need to discuss whether ritual ingredients need to be tagged or not...

[south gorge]

Ok but image 2 years from now someone who doesn't even know this set exists is suddenly spoiled on the end of the series without even knowing thats an option

[south gorge]

For risk of terrorism and this not being 18+ id imagine so

[wooden locust]

Ultimately, we're a place where the starting point for entertainment threads is that even spoilers for that franchise itself need to be tagged
We've compromised on that a bit here because it doesn't make much sense for Magic, but it's probably unlikely we'll ever be allowing full spoilers for other media in a given thread even if in a vacuum it would be optimal, it's just too far outside the expectations we establish for chat in every other similar instance

[leaden tide]

And that makes sense. I don't think it's the best option, but I respect that as the server's policy.

But for me then I'm gonna personally advocate for spoiling everything Universes Beyond, because anything between spoilering all or nothing is going to be complicated and confusing, as we've repeatedly hashed out.

[wanton hazel]

starting to feel like a consensus, that if we’re doing this, that’s the way to do it….

[stiff horizon]

The easiest solution is to simply travel back in time and stop wizards of the coast from ever doing universes beyond to begin with
Easy, I’ve solved it

I think tagging all universes beyond cards is most consistent with server policy, even if it does make discussing the game more difficult
In the end it’s wizard’s fault (or hasbro’s depending on who you want to point the finger at) for turning the most recognizeable TCG on the market into fortnite slop

Gotta maximize those short term profits while hasbro pays 90+ percent of its profits back as shareholder dividends instead of investing anything back into the actual company itself
Surely this is a sign of a forward thinking and sustainable business model and not that the company is being squeezed dry before it falls dead and is scrapped for parts

[molten maple]

I mean I would never have played magic at all if it werent for the Final Fantasy set so

[upper moon]

Well, i mean the ff set is fairly in line with mtg and was high quality tbh. The slop is the fact they push ot out so much that its undercooked, and includes completely unrelated ips like Spiderman and ninja turtles

[lucid jewel]

I actually think magic the gathering is popping off and getting good right now. I just think they need to re evaluate how fast standard sets in general are comming out and how many sets a year are universes beyond

I think if they get a handle on that life's is good

Also ppl comming in from universes beyond then getting into mtg just because of that is good for the game and the community. We need fresh blood

[tepid stirrup]

Even if the sets were good, it simply is not healthy for MTG's identity as an independent IP to have more UB sets in 2026 than UW

MTG has a distinct artistic identity and it is in my opinion at genuine risk of just getting lost in the shuffle of other ideas in its own home

[leaden tide]

That's been the concern since UB first became a thing.

And as has repeatedly been made aparent, Hasbro literally doesnt give a frick

[surreal stag]

I think my next deck is Omnath Locus of Rage Earthbend/Landfall

[lucid jewel]

Dew it

[granite whale]

Nice, we can compare notes. Mine is a group ramp deck 😄 makes games go crazy real fast

Funny part is, since it's all basic land searching 3+ color decks tend to run out of lands to fetch out of the deck hahaha

[lucid jewel]

group ramp sounds crazy

i do need to get me a omnath locus of rage deck rolling at some point

hopefully when i graduate and start working again next year ill be able to grab decks like that or other dreams of mine like a toph or a zuko deck

altho i think zuko is delving into themes i dont like that much when playing

[surreal stag]

the real question is do I run Omnath of Toph as Commander

im leaning Toph just to get access to Naya

[granite whale]

I can share the list later if you're curious! It's great fun and uses a few cards you otherwise don't get too see.

[leaden tide]

Yeah you get some good stuff with Toph.

[lucid jewel]

always love looking through lists like that

[leaden tide]

Not just staples like Swords and Path, but fun tech like Planar Cleansing.

[lucid jewel]

i also wanna do a omnath locus of all deck

[surreal stag]

I mean its Earthbend/landfall with the best removal in the game

[lucid jewel]

honestly i think locus of rage in the 99

[leaden tide]

And specifically things that go great in an animate lands deck.

[lucid jewel]

toph in the command zone enables so much more good stuff

[surreal stag]

yup

going to be very fun. I cant wait to build it and then find a bunch of lists miles better than mine to steal/mod

[lucid jewel]

have you edited your list much since we were talking about it before glam

[leaden tide]

I have a mostly complete Toph list, that I'm waiting until the full set is revealed to polish off.

[lucid jewel]

there was a couple earthbending cards i might add from yesterdays reveals

[leaden tide]

I wanted to see what other good Earthbending tech there'd be and, I've already got some prevew cards I'm eyeing.

[leaden tide]

Aye, I like the look of these two

[lucid jewel]

oh dam i didnt see bumi

[leaden tide]

He was revealed this morning.

[lucid jewel]

ahh i havent checked stuff today

[leaden tide]

Only two cards I've seen so far, but more are probably coming imminently.

The other one is another version of Ty Lee

[surreal stag]

until we know everything im focused on mods to my Ygra list

i freaking love this deck

[leaden tide]

Oh and another preview I just saw:

[lucid jewel]

OHHHHHH!!!!!

"with out paying its mana cost"

always enables shenans

[leaden tide]

It's expensive, but could go hard in the right Storm deck.

[lucid jewel]

and theres so many ways to trigger that

[leaden tide]

Man this is such a good set.

Idk if it's particularly powerful (but it might be), it's just cool and fun.

[heavy jasper]

[surreal stag]

https://moxfield.com/decks/JWTxb5f2bkOtmlCPBI1gNQ

its come a ways since i last shared

im trying to test some new cards. There are plenty of cards that are miles better than some ive got

[leaden tide]

I really can't get over Bumi here. ||Five mana for 9 power on the board, 4 of which is hasty? That's nuts.||

[heavy jasper]

Bumi ||looks kinda cracked ngl||

||I wonder if there is a valid way to make an Order of the White Lotus deck||

[gloomy pagoda]

Kinda makes me wonder if there's an easy way to turn a creature into a land...

Found one, and it's even in colour

[surreal stag]

everything is a land, lands are buff dudes, profit

[lucid jewel]

This guy is in heaps of landfall decks

Or "lands matter" decks

5 cost with that effect is massive

[molten maple]

ATLA ||its a little odd of Ty Lee to be mono red, no?||

Im just waiting for the ||Mai|| card(s) to be revealed now ||to round out the Azula crew||

[leaden tide]

AtlA ||Bumi fits in Iroh's deck, as does Master Pakku. Sadly Piandao is in white, which doesn't fit.||

||We've not seen Jeong Jeong yet, though I would be surprised if he doesn't have a card.||

[molten maple]

Eh? Did my post get deleted?

Lets try again

ATLA ||Surely this card is gonna be broken right? LMAO||

[leaden tide]

A) I already posted that
B) It will likelly be strong yes. Broken? Unlikely when it costs 6 mana.

[molten maple]

There are plenty of broken 6 drops in the game

this is without a doubt the most powerful artifact card printed since I started playing magic in Final Fantasy 3 sets ago

ATLA cards ||surely this card belongs in a Fire Lord Azula deck right?||

[leaden tide]

Yeah. Seems like a decent fit.

Very ironic flavor though.

[molten maple]

the other thing I would say about it being a 6 drop is that colorless mana is relatively easy to create so being a 6 mana colorless spell is easier to swallow than a 6 mana colored spell

[lucid jewel]

for me the "once each turn" also balances it a bit but not that drasticly. The card will certinaly see play in commander

but i dont see it being played THAT much outside of specific combo decks

[molten maple]

could be played a lot in tron decks too

perhaps. idk

I dont think there is enough support to run it in standard but I could be wrong

[lucid jewel]

standard is for me a complete mystery

with spiderman it shifted the meta almost 0 in standard

but this set will change things a bunch

[molten maple]

true, same for me

spiderman kind of sucked though, the cards were both boring and weak overall

ATLA cards seem significantly more powerful from what ive seen

[leaden tide]

Especially with the top deck's combo getting the swat soon.

[molten maple]

And the flavor is

[leaden tide]

Wouldn't be surprised if red is still the strongest color though.

[molten maple]

unfortunately I dont see much support for +1/+1 counter decks, sorry Yuna 🙁 My Yuna deck will probably remain completely unchanged for now

[leaden tide]

Yeah, it will see play in Commander. Probably Modern and maybe some other formats too. I could see it being useful in an A-tier Tron deck. But Tron hasn't been S-tier on Modern in a while.

Don't get me wrong the card is strong. But I don't think it's quite as obviously broken as, say Vivi.

[molten maple]

Ok sure its no Vivi

but Vivi is one of the most obviously busted cards printed in years

[leaden tide]

I mean there's a whole mechanic in the set that's about loading your lands with +1/+1 counters

[molten maple]

wait thats true 🤔 I didnt even think about earthbending

[molten maple]

I already have multiple better/cheaper version of the ||"creatures with counters have trample"|| but maybe I could add a couple earthbenders? Theres definitely a deck to be made there but I would have to basically rebuild the deck from the ground up, its a very different deck than what im currently running with Yuna which is closer to a hydra tribal deck

[lucid jewel]

i could see a slightly modified boros burn deck with a bunch of firebending in it to just push in the win super quick

or even like you said, red firebending in general will slap in standard

its not like red needed more mana at instant speed during combat or anything its fine ......

[surreal stag]

this plus Bumi is ||2 card combo infinite combats?||

[gloomy pagoda]

By my parsing, yep

[surreal stag]

so to keep earthbending br3 no Aahaya lol

or no bumi but thats just not going to happen lol

always bumi

[gloomy pagoda]

ATLA S2 ||So, do we think we're going to get Zuko's Stolen Ostrich-Horse as a non-FF Chocobo deck card?||

[molten maple]

Hey so Ive noticed there are ONLY TLA cards in this set so far, are they not going to add Korra stuff?

[leaden tide]

Nope, this set is just the original series.

[molten maple]

Im cool with that but its a surprising choice to me

Maybe they think adding Korra stuff too would spread the set too thin?

[wanton hazel]

or maybe they just want to have room to grow if the set is wildly successful

[lucid jewel]

they wanted the chance to have a legend of korra set im sure

[molten maple]

Yeah that makes sense too

[surreal stag]

Ive changed my mind. Naya Earthbending is dead to me. Jund Earthbending is my new best friend

[leaden tide]

Yeah both shows have enough material for a full set. So keep Korra in their pocket for later, like they did with the Hobbit

[surreal stag]

Hearthull, the Worldbender is born

[lucid jewel]

YES

hearthull the earth bender

[surreal stag]

no but Hearthull bends entire worlds!

[lucid jewel]

you will bend the planets to your will and throw them at fools

[surreal stag]

i must bend planets

[lucid jewel]

yasss i love it

honestly my next precon purchase will be hearthhull

so i love the idea of adding an earthbending package to it

[surreal stag]

this all started with the idea of Ygra Earthbend. play lands, make lands into dudes, dudes = food, swing wildly with dudes, buff cat, remove target player

but there so much good in red for earthbend that Ygra just lives in the 99 now lol

[lucid jewel]

you can do that better with a SPACESHIP tho

sac lands win game

[surreal stag]

https://tenor.com/view/get-it-thoughts-thinking-exactly-gif-14272926