Cosmere RPG

[hollow sphinx]

Let's not even get started on Vasher

[delicate moth]

And you can use the same sword to help your construction workers - Shardblades are not inherently evil in the way that murdering someone for power is

[tidal knot]

Like it'd be pretty cool if they had henalurgy but remember

[clever egret]

and you can use the consequences of hemalurgy to help people

[tidal knot]

Mechanically, hemalurgy is just stealing stuff

[vital bolt]

Weirdly the moral message they're putting across by doing it this way is that isn't wrong to use the product of murder, only to do the murder itself.
Using spikes is going to be in the rules, but not making them. People still have to die to produce them, the GM just can't leave hints of it happening about the place to spur the PCs to outrage, because we don't know what the hints are beyond "dead people".

[clever egret]

is it evil to steal the allomantic power a noble has been using to abuse their skaa slaves? would it be evil to use that power youve gained to liberate skaa?

[quaint cliff]

Nightblood was made with people's pieces of souls and if you are not pure enough you just go on a murderous rampage holding it.

[wanton void]

Mechanics can have moral messages. The absence of mechanics should not

[tidal knot]

Especially because brando doesn't want to reveal how people make spikes

[tidal knot]

Especially because brando doesn't want to reveal how people make spikes

He's deliberately kept it as vague as possible for like 15 years

[wanton void]

we know how

[clever egret]

yeah you stab a spike through a bindpoint which invests the spike, and it begins losing that power unless stored in blood or stabbed into another individual. we see that occur in the books

or wait i think the bindpoint matters for the recipient, not the person being killed

[hollow sphinx]

Also, as AAKS keeps bringing up, they intend to support Fused PCs

[tidal knot]

This will be cool as hell

If you want to play as a hemalurgy user, just... have a spike in you

[hollow sphinx]

You know, the ancient largely-genocidal spirits of hatred who have to murder innocent people every time they resurrect

[clever egret]

how is that different to hemalurgy? you know how fused incarnate right?

[vital bolt]

A murder a resurrection. That's small fry compared to a fully operational battlestation Hemalurgist.

[wanton void]

hmm, this brings up an interesting issue. Is the bindpoint on the person stolen from, or the person you are putting it into? Or both. Because I seem to remember that the inquisitors exclusives spiked hearts in their victims iirc

[hollow sphinx]

Those resurrections add up quick with how easily the Fused die... 💀

[vital bolt]

Skill issue.

[pastel bison]

also, ngl, if the intent is only to stop murderhobo-ing, then that's still a decision that should be made at the gm table, not in the design room

[hollow sphinx]

This is the latest word on it afaik yeah, for the "donor" you just need to get it through their heart while Intending to do Hemalurgy

Don't even need close contact, a gun works

[clever egret]

ya its literally not that hard to stop that as a gm. "hey, this is out of character, please dont murderhobo" "okay, i wont"

[wanton void]

you see, if you want to look at morality, don't make mechanics inaccessible if they are wrong. Make them not fun to use, or deliberately underpowered, or something like that.

[vital bolt]

Eh. There are ways to do it at the design table that aren't just "Don't include murder mechanics". You can make them have consequences and surround them with the appropriate fluff to make that clear; place them in context.

[tidal knot]

I mean, there's a massive resurgence of satanic panic era thinking and hyper right wing conservatism going on so its probably worth considering

[pastel bison]

this is where my instincts are going too, but only Brotherwise knows, unfortch

[hollow sphinx]

There's also a pretty wide range of moral possibilities that exist between purer-than-the-protagonists and murderhobo

[solid breach]

Destiny?

[clever egret]

hemalurgy might steal destiny

[hollow sphinx]

That too
Which Hemalurgy has built-in, even

[tidal knot]

Also genuine question, didn't harmony surpress knowledge of hemalurgy during era 2?

[wanton void]

that is the extent of our knowledge about the subject

[clever egret]

they even mention that theyre gonna make mechanics for that at the end of their message

[pastel bison]

didn't help

[tidal knot]

Like lore wise, I'm pretty sure people aren't supposed to know how to make them

[wanton void]

well, he didn't encourage it, but his main right hand man litterally handed out a hemalurgy handbook

[signal cloak]

Let’s both not say things that are stereotyping and sexist and stay away from politics please.

[vital bolt]

Honestly, mostly what I'm getting from this today is more confused about what they actually think they're leaving out...

[clever egret]

they say hemalurgy would be consequence free which is bad. and then a few sentences later say theyre gonna make consequences

[hollow sphinx]

Left it out of the Words of Founding at least, don't think we know if he's directly intervened to suppress it otherwise

[wooden narwhal]

It is a decision by the team to say "we understand where this can go and we choose not to be responsible for that"

They made an artistic choice to not include this info and while seemingly arbitrary that is just how people make decisions.

It was a bridge too far for the dev team.

[tidal knot]

And with that I'm gonna shut up bc this isn't going anywhere

[hollow sphinx]

Ah sorry didn't see this

[wooden narwhal]

I bet we also don't get a whole lot of details about murder brothels on era 1 either.

[vital bolt]

Fundamentally, it's a canonical and important Invested Art in the Cosmere - an underlying principle behind multiple Invested Arts even - and therefore the decision not to include it in the canon RPG because they don't want to promote certain behaviours in player characters is strange, because those characters are just going to have those behaviours with all the other Invested Arts they did include.

[solid breach]

I am working on homebrew for that at the moment
Since it ain’t official I can disregard balance

[clever egret]

if you start off with one coin and are a steelpusher, ur incentivised to pop that coin into random peoples heads to collect their coins to get more coins you can push into peoples heads to get even more ammo

[quaint cliff]

Tbh that also isn't a a good way of doing it. Don't made bad mechanics on purpose so people don't use it.

[vital bolt]

(And when I work out how to structure all my disparate thoughts on this I will also work out how to feed this back to the team properly, rather than just grousing about it here where they likely can't see it.)

[solid breach]

Or….. blackmail certain people in Era 2 so you become one of the richest people in the world

Invent base ball

Invent bowling

Then invest your profits into new ideas for more profit

[clever egret]

thank you for feeding back 🙏 i would do that but that did not go well last time and honestly im too scared to deal with that again

[wanton void]

The thing is... do we even need rules for making spikes? I mean, a simple roll to determine if you did it right. There will be rules for the spikes themselves, because that is a core feature of the setting. They have only said there will be no rules for making them.

[vital bolt]

It's fine.

I'll get a reputation to add to the hundreds of words of feedback i gave them already...

[hollow sphinx]

The complaint isn't "this is hard to homebrew"
It's disagreement with the philosophy expressed as reasoning

[solid breach]

No but we need rules for capitalism

[wooden narwhal]

The issue, and it is a silly one, is hemalurgy is explicit in a way the other things rely on decisions by players to do those bad things.

They are going to tell us how spikes work on PCs what abilities they grant and likely generally where they go. I am not sure how describing the bloody process of killing an individual with a spike prior to that will actually add to the info in the game.

[clever egret]

i would like the rpg im paying money for to include content from the books its adapting yes. if they are choosing to not adapt contents from the books, i would like a satisfactory explanation (which there is no shortage of, they did not choose a satisfactory explanation) for why that is the case

[midnight bramble]

💯
It's absurd hypocritical attempt at moralizing

[clever egret]

again its not like reasonable explanations cant be satisfactory, they provided one for why they didnt include bondsmith powers. i think people have gone "aw man it would have been cool to see haha" but theres no backlash. thats a reasonable explanation and people are satisfied

[flat spoke]

I mean...in the end we have one statement do we not? And we're a year+ out from release. Feel like things could change or we could get clarification

[quaint cliff]

Tbh it would be hard for me to homebrew what spike goes where.

[vital bolt]

Mmm. I'm not entirely satisfied with that reasoning, given all of their Surges and Oaths are in the book, and the ST might want their specific mechanics for NPCs...

But eh. I pick my battles.

[flat spoke]

Also I feel like we're just rehashing the same points over and over here

[solid breach]

The mechanics are “do anything possible through connection manipulation”

[wanton void]

Spike slots, you can only have so many of any variety. Or
I think it is entirely possible to just borrow the system in MAG

[quaint cliff]

Arguably, there are more Bondsmiths than Elsecallers, why do we have Elsecallers?

[vital bolt]

snrk

[wanton void]

because Elsecallers cannot instantly end the war if they are crafty enough

[solid breach]

To make sure Shallan ends up in the war camps with the right motivation

[hollow sphinx]

Yeah leaving Bondsmith PCs out for their stated reasons makes sense to me

[wanton void]

Dalinar is just the rare straight-line thinking bondsmith

[hollow sphinx]

It's also damnably hard to pin down real mechanics for them in the first place

[pastel bison]

(also it messes with the plot very quickly and Brandon seems to want to do something here)

[solid breach]

But how else will I get all the magics , even more than Hoid

[vital bolt]

Arguably that's their job, Punny. To make mechanics appear, to draw them forth from Sanderson's brain like toffee.

[hollow sphinx]

They can do anything from translation to the Oathpact

[vital bolt]

If getting him to confirm things was easy, we wouldn't spend months crafting WoB questions. :P

[quaint cliff]

Messes with the plot? What? What happens in my homegame shouldn't mess with the plot. 🤣

[placid hornet]

you make it sound like Brandon is some sort of lore-dispensing genie

[wanton void]

honestly they only way I could think of a mechanic for it is
like on character sheets those character connection questions in more narrative focused games?
give the bondsmith the abillity to just cut that out and add it to their own character sheet

[vital bolt]

Am I wrong? :P

[pastel bison]

isn't he though? :p

[placid hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-what-really-no-words-huh-gif-4487358

[solid breach]

Like
We are not getting “epic” mechanics until book 6 is out

[hollow sphinx]

And that's without touching on their spren

[clever egret]

we wish for a book and he twists that wish... and gives us 5 books??? i dont think he gets how genies are supposed to work

[wooden narwhal]

The more I read the statement the more I think we are going to get most of the info we need for hemalurgy.

They will have rules for how players can use them and what effects they will have. It's possible they only have a few pre made ones but those will likely be the most relevant anyways. (Gold, iron, steel ,etc)

The only thing they won't have is a mechanic laying out the DC for correctly creating a spike.

We know how they are made it's just "have intent and correct metal. Stab through heart of you can. Even better if they stab through a person directly into position"

So I am honestly not sure what will really be missing from the book.

[quaint cliff]

Brandon didn't even give us what 5th ideal even does in the last book and we had two of them.

[solid breach]

https://tenor.com/view/hate-hatred-grinch-how-the-grinch-stole-christmas-hate-hate-hate-gif-4839825

[vital bolt]

Also, I would posit that a vast number of people who want to play and run this game aren't actually in the fandom, don't know the squirrelly corners of #cosmere-mechanics as many of us do, and might appreciate slightly more support for things they are vaguely aware exist in the books.

[pastel bison]

yeah, it looks like they won't basically have the hemalurgy chart

[vital bolt]

We are so in the weeds that they look like giant redwoods, and we don't need Brotherwise to hold our hand.

[delicate moth]

Presumably the book will have an aside similar to the Bondsmiths one, that tells those people why they can't hemalurgy

[solid breach]

They didn’t let us buy slaves either ! 😿 😭

[delicate moth]

Also, do keep in mind that this statement shows up in an optional addon magazine, not in the sourcebooks

[wanton void]

You couldn't either way, you are the True Ruler of None

[vital bolt]

From one of their Lead Designers, talking about what they are planning to include in the sourcebook. If it's not an indication of at least the direction of travel, I'm not sure what it is...

Which is why, as I say, I will find a way to provide some constructive feedback to them while there is still a chance of changing it - even if they decide not to listen. Which they are entitled to do, of course.

[solid breach]

I can set them free as a front, to lure them into becoming my squires

[quaint cliff]

Well, this is a good time right now to go tell them that you do want it.

[clever egret]

ya like probalistically, i feel like its safe to assume they meant what they said rather than meant what they didnt say

[delicate moth]

I am not saying this isn't the direction they want to go in - just that there can be more to it

[placid hornet]

If you do wish to provide feedback, I'd suggest doing it

• in a place where they can see it (i.e. not a forum post on a server is primarily not about the RPG)
• in a way that is polite and respectful, and not accusing them of being preachy and moralizing and immediately putting them on the defensive

[delicate moth]

But also, the Stormlight setting changed quite substantially during development, so it's not impossible that they will end up including Hemalurgy rules

[pine storm]

i hope they do...

[placid hornet]

Example: "Hey, I'd like to run a campaign where we plays as the villains and I think being able to create spikes out of people is part of the appeal of being a villain on Scadrial, is there any chance we could get the rules to support that?"

[kind wadi]

Guys... I think... I think the reason Kal could do what he did in WaT ||Because he was Dalinar's squire||

Not sure if full spoilers are okay here, given the specific time the RPG is taking place in

[clever egret]

its usually the villains that youd want to make spikes out of, considering most allomancers are gonna be nobles, and they dont tend to be nice

[pine storm]

can you be a squire when you're already a radiant

[flat spoke]

That's probably more #stormlight than here

[placid hornet]

I am giving you an example, not telling you a template for what to send to Brotherwise I'm talking about the vibe of the message

[quaint cliff]

Where's my eye crystalspike mechanics?

[kind wadi]

Yeah, I wasn't sure, and interpreting mechanics into story is messy at best

[placid hornet]

Like, don't go there and go "How dare you be so self-righteous as to deny me my Shards-given right to stab people for power, I don't need you to preach to me about the morality of how I play!!1!111" (this is deliberately overexaggerated example, I'm not saying any of y'all said that), you will not achieve anything by immediately accusing the devs of acting in bad faith

[solid breach]

for me there are 3 sides of hemalurgy

1. I really really want inquisitor player options , because, I think theoretically you should be able to play “bad guys” serving Lord Ruler. I think playing evil obligators or nobles is worse, because they are closer to real life predators versus Inquisitors being more like playing Chaos Marines where it ain’t a game about being straff venture,. And mechanics for playing inquisitors would give more insight into hemalurgy and hemalurgy constructs.
2. Hemalurgy is gonna become more and more of a thing as the cosmere heads into the future, so it is a weird hill to die on
3. I don’t think players with hemalurgy spikes in Era 2 is a good thing, I find the limited nature of a single power is a lot more interesting in a noir like setting

[kind wadi]

So...I'm sure I'm missing a lot of context here, but if you feel like there is stuff you wish the game had that the designers felt they didn't want, why not get brewing yourself?

[placid hornet]

(I wanna stab people for power, to be clear, I wanna play an inquisitor)

[fervent reef]

Or like "hey, I want to play a more morally grey story, where players grapple with the morality of stealing the souls of the bad guys they're fighting"

[solid breach]

Well…… it is hard
That is why there aren’t a lot of dnd 5e homebrew for example

There simply wasn’t enough lore on the various orders and surges for example

[clever egret]

playing a traitor inquisitor marsh style is genuinely such a cool "grey hero" campaign thats directly inspired by the canon and has really cool options where ur gaining power through immoral means to take down immoral monsters, and what do the common folk think of you? as Death itself

[fervent reef]

The issue isn't them removing it, the issue is really the explanation for removing it

[placid hornet]

worse comes to worst and we never get this option, we can always 'homebrew' it as "I roll X to stab the guy hemalurgically" and then the GM gives you the spike as a reward for the stabbening

[flat spoke]

Well a) Mistborn isn't out yet lol, it's currently in a closed Alpha playtest.

B) people disagree with the why they gave and the potential implications going forward

[solid breach]

Why be a traitor ?

Serve the Lord ruler, make people like straff venture have to bend over backwards to do as you command in the Lord ruler name

[kind wadi]

I think there might be a lot more story points that hinge on some of this knowledge, so even if we're lacking now I am going to trust that Brando Sando held it back for the story

[clever egret]

see my clarification on this here #1391790178435207290 message

[pine storm]

my two cents is that real life morality shouldn't affect a fictional game about crab people and the French. If you only give players squeaky clean options without any range the game will turn boring fast...

[solid breach]

It should ?

[quaint cliff]

3. Well...era 2 has twinborns so...🤣

[pine storm]

shouldn't sorry lol

[kind wadi]

Thank you, much appreciated

[clever egret]

by being a traitor you get to have cool boss fights with other inquisitors. if you join the inquisitors, theres no worthy foes 😈

[delicate moth]

Do you think the RPG only offers squeaky clean ways to play?

[solid breach]

The final empire lasted a long time

Throw parodies of Kelsier crew at them

[placid hornet]

Belsier, and his student, Bin

[pine storm]

no is just my opinion

[solid breach]

Belsier the leftover of Hatshin

[kind wadi]

Don't forget his cousin, Kvelsier and their ward, Vkin

[solid breach]

Also

Survivor synonyms ain’t a lot of apparently

[kind wadi]

Me when going through Tress.
EXCUSE ME THE WHAT

[clever egret]

this is why the lord ruler didnt take vin seriously, she was just the latest after uin, tin, sin, rin all the way back to the original ain

[kind wadi]

Waaaaaiiiit.... Lin... Lin Davar.... Oh no

[pine storm]

fain...?

[fervent reef]

Obviously Scadrial doesn't contain any fainlife. The rational mind will see this

[pine storm]

that we know off🫣

[solid breach]

Campaign Idea: "What if Lord Ruler left and found immortality on Nalthis"

[kind wadi]

Hmmm... So we just wait till we get Elantris rules, then forge the Mistborn rules so they -did- include all the stuff you want.

[quaint cliff]

We haven't seen Southren Scadrial. 😛

[fervent reef]

Well, if they won't include making spikes because it's immoral, will they also drop the immoral Selish magics like Dhakor or Bloodsealing?

[delicate moth]

let's cross that bridge when we get to it

[solid breach]

omg
Dakhor Magnified One
indestructible Carapace

🤤

[kind wadi]

Hmmm... I don't know, but I'm inclined to say they'll include them, if only because it's not exactly the same throughline. Book accurate hemalurgy rules do lean towards "murder=profit" in very explicit terms. But considering they're giving us what the end result is, it's not like they're saying no power from dark places at all. Just that they weren't going to have chapters on where to stab the power stealing murder jewelry

[quaint cliff]

We need a perpendicularity to elsecall to it.

[solid breach]

.... wait why do dakhor need sacrfiice.... the entire planet has the biggest battery of investiture in the cosmere

😕

[clever egret]

only ethical dakhor allowed

[fervent reef]

Cause they're evil and evil magics need to be end-negative

[solid breach]

maybe the sacrfice are laid down in specfic shape?

[solid breach]

actually coppermind says it is end-positive

[fervent reef]

Oh huh

[fervent reef]

Match the mountains of Dhakor

[clever egret]

the real explanation is because thats how the magic can get channeled. the elantrians require their city aligned to the shape of their country, accounting for chasms, to be aligned to channel the power. dakhor dont have the same limitations as the elantrians, and instead channel the dor power through sacrifices and bone stuff

[solid breach]

.... i have a theory, that you dont actually need sacrifice

just bones

[kind wadi]

Just about to type this

That whole religion was about control, why trust what it tells their followers?

[fervent reef]

So the people are not the source of power. Maybe they are just a key like the metals in allomancy

[solid breach]

or

maybe the key is the bones

[kind wadi]

Oooh yeah I like this

[solid breach]

and you dont need to kill someone

just go grave robbing

[kind wadi]

Maybe the key is in their connection to Jaddath (sp?)

[clever egret]

people are a bag of bones

[umbral heath]

Hang on… I think I have some ideas, but maybe I should go to #elantris-and-tes for this.

[clever egret]

i think the ritual sacrifices are also integral to the culture. like you rise high so you dont become the one sacrificed. or you worship jaddeth so much you are willing to be sacrificed (and when ur not getting sacrificed ur showing complete Devotion)

[umbral heath]

I could see the ritual sacrifices as being a way to prove your devotion, but not necessarily the only way.

[solid breach]

I feel like Bloodsealing, Elantrian Magic and DakHor sacrfiices are all the sasme kind of magic just with different casting types

[hollow sphinx]

Extended talk about the book magic itself rather than RPG should probably go there or #cosmere yeah

[clever egret]

for sure thats what i think. its one Door (hehe get it) and a bunch of different keys to unlock that Door and get access to the power

[tidal knot]

I cannot WAIT for dhakor and bloodsealing to come to the RPG

I just love obscure magic stuff I guess

[clever egret]

sel is already pretty damn packed with obscure magic systems... theres that dancing one and the cooking? potion making? one, probs more on the emperors soul continent, and still a third continent we dont know about. if brandon keeps up the same pace that elantris introduced, elantris 2 and 3 may bring in even more. so many mechanics for the rpg to develop wouldnt be surprised if they just outright say "nah we arent doin all that. here get a full aonic dictionary instead as compensation"

feel like you wanna punish your enemy in battle? use aon reo! itll take 20 turns to write the aon and cast it 😊

[solid breach]

if only there was a power in the cosmsere

that let you speed up time

🤔

[clever egret]

actually repeated dc checks would probably be better for aon writing, considering poorly written aons can still cast and have unexpected consequences

[fervent reef]

Aon Dor, ChayShan, Dakhor, Forton's Potions, Forgery, Bloodsealing

[solid breach]

.... seeing how the system dont let you usse Regrowth on yourself

I feel like it wont be that complex

[primal wyvern]

Sorry to interrupt your convo guys but im wondering if there is a guide to getting started with this? Theres just sooo many files from the kickstarter that J have no idea how to even start

[solid breach]

as a DM or Player?

[primal wyvern]

A dm

[solid breach]

read handbook firt, then world guide

[primal wyvern]

Okay ty :)

[clever egret]

welcome to stormlight is a cute overview, then handbook and worldguide. handbook is probs better first, and cross reference stuff to the worldguide for more detail

[clever egret]

thats fair. id def homebrew dc checks into aons tho the consequences of it going poorly just seem so fun

[pastel bison]

I'm really looking forwards to the Sel world guide

and I know it doesn't have nearly as much reference material to pull from as SA does, but I really hope they dig deeper into it than just pulling from references

[clever egret]

if elantris 2 and 3 come out by then, and brandon tells them hes not gonna revisit that world again (outside of vague mentions in space age stuff), i wonder if theyd be given more freedom to decide their own lore, or brandon gives them seeds of lore that theyre allowed to expand upon

[solid breach]

what are the chances

from 1 to 10

that most altered ones are good at warcrimess?

[clever egret]

10? its kinda hard to be bad at warcrimes. the whole point of them being crimes is cuz theyre stuff thats easy to do if you dont try to avoid it

[primal wyvern]

just opened up the handbook and world guide... what is the best way to get through all of this as a gm? do I need to read all of it??

[vital bolt]

If I'm going to run the game, I'd start with the rules personally.

[clever egret]

fantastic question, im having the same problem

[placid hornet]

I'd say you should probably familiarize yourself with the handbook; as for the rest, once you start planning out a game, just look up the relevant elements

[vital bolt]

The World Guide is a summary of the world (oddly) which if you've read the books, you']ll know 80+% already.

[clever egret]

im so grateful for this ive been training all these years to ensure i dont need to processs all that information at once

i keep starting to try to read the handbook or the campaign and it lasts about 5 minutes before im going down a rabbit hole looking at stat blocks or obscure entries or how they decide the mechanics for a radiant and its all too much

[primal wyvern]

i know how you feel hahah

ive never even played dnd or any ttrpg but like the idea of them

so being a gm (nobody i know would have the guts) scares me

[clever egret]

you can share these resources with ur players and i think itd be a good idea to ask them for help and to keep an eye out for mechanics and rules. more eyes means more stuff gets noticed etc. kinda like how if i roll 5 d6's, everyone at the table looks at the rolls and tries to add up the math in their head quick enough to shout it out so that the person who rolled it doesnt have all the pressure to do the math quickly

it will def be something thats best learned as its played. as long as you follow the character creation stuff, and look at the right section for when ur doing combat or an "endeavour" i think its called, youll do fine and itll come naturally

[flat spoke]

Honestly the only stuff I think I didn't know was some of the location specific information, + some of the cultural info for certain areas

And that's the stuff that's actually new new

[clever egret]

ive played with dnd veterans and sometimes they get the rules wrong. also theres a secret strategy, if someone calls you out for interpreting the rules wrong, just say "the way i think it works is better"

[placid hornet]

People will be understanding when they know you're new to this; nothing wrong with taking your time or getting things wrong

You'll all be new to this system, you'll all be taking your time or getting things wrong

[clever egret]

probably the most common thing that can go wrong is that youll accidentally give ur players a slight advantage or disadvantage. like theyll be rolling higher than they should, or forgetting to do rolls. as long as there isnt a huge amount of frustration or anger, thats generally gonna be harmless

[solid breach]

this would most likely be a lot more useable if i wanted it to be balanced

(Altered Ones talents)

[pastel bison]

speaking of

Though less common, there are intelligent sapient Voidspren with memories dating back to the human arrival on Roshar. One such Voidspren, Ulim, manipulated the listener Venli into causing the Everstorm.
makes me wonder if voidspren are shadows of humans from the original war on Alaswha, and the Fused was Odium's second attempt at this kind of stuff

and I wonder if either is tied to the idea of the Svrakiss from Sel, as that is another place where Odium has previously taken interest

[hollow sphinx]

If Odium was making Shadows, I would think his Surgebinders would be less surprised by their slow aging

[pastel bison]

I'm just curious where the voidspren come from

they don't make sense

they also have shin eyes, most of the time, which is also

[hollow sphinx]

I do think them coming from Alaswha is super believable

Just unsure about the Shadow part

[stray sand]

I feel like fabrial crafting also has the potential to be gamebreaking (especially when surge fabrials are on the table) but they made it work

Although they made that work by having you find gems through the reward system and metal spikes aren't especially hard to create

[prime cloak]

Honestly if I had a player that really really wanted to craft a spike, I would just do it through the goals and rewards system anyway. Take appropriate steps to narratively craft the spike and I give it to you as a reward for that goal.

Like I don't see the need to treat Hemalurgy as an active magic system in the rules when I feel it works just fine as a type of item. Like and we already know how the game handles earning things like fabrials and non-radiant shards, so just treat earning a spike the same way.

[solid breach]

Only Husked and Magnified One left

[zenith shuttle]

Genuin question, why is the Stormlight Handbook written in 2nd person, but the 'you' only includes the players and not the GM? (Asking as someone who reads it to become the GM 🥲)

[zenith shuttle]

A friend and I were just wondering how they would do Hemalurgy. Something for the bad guys? Something for everyone? If so, do you murder someone when you level up?

[fervent reef]

#1391790178435207290 message

[hollow sphinx]

Again, the complaint is not that it's hard to work around the lack
It's people being uncomfortable with the provided motivation for the decision

[prime cloak]

Yes and I understand the complaint. I was responding to a specific comment on handling it from a game-breaking mechanic standpoint. People's complaints about the reasoning are fine, but my point in this conversation has mostly been focusing on how I feel the decision works from a gameplay standpoint, separate from the reasons given

Like I think speculating on it from a design standpoint is fun and interesting thought experiment. I am not a brotherwise employee though and can't speak to why they made the decisions they did or why they decided to frame their reasoning the way they did

[solid breach]

well I have been thinking about it

unless you have a Shard intervening
you kinda need to restrain and capture someone to kill them

whihc is kinda like killing a prisoner

[stray sand]

They explain this in the book

While the GM is certainly a player—after all, you’re playing a game together—this game’s rules use the word “player” to specifically refer to participants other than the GM. Rules for players only apply anyone who has an individual player character. Similarly, when this game refers to “you,” it’s usually talking specifically to the players. However, some sections (including the entirety of chapter 13) address the GM directly.

@zenith shuttle

[zenith shuttle]

I guess my question is more why 2nd person you and not 3rd person including all readers? But maybe I read too much other rpg books...

[stray sand]

"You" is a lot less wordy than, for example "the player character who has this talent"

[mental canyon]

Considering that in the Cosmere the player characters may have actively been involved in or exposed to:

Horrendous sexual trauma
Slavery and oppression: metallic France edition
Oppression: cowboy capitalism edition
Slavery and oppression: crab edition
Slavery and oppression: weird breath religious edition
Slavery and oppression: spehss edition
Murder, so much murder
Maiming, oh the maiming
Working as agents for flawed fragments of space god that inevitably lead to terrible outcomes
And finally the crime of just being a smug Elantrian

If folks want spikes, give them spikes and it can be a group decision (presumably beforehand where people discuss their comfort level) if they're killing prisoners or whatever.

[solid breach]

spehss ?

[primal wyvern]

Well, here we go

[noble tulip]

I think the phrasing implies that all Willshapers agree on the purpose of law.

[noble tulip]

Which is weird, I am sure there are anarchist Willshapers

[solid breach]

well no

anarchist willshapers are made to disappeared by the secret police

[noble tulip]

Because really there is 0% chance that the Willshapers of all orders have ideological unity, "Freedom" has a wide range of detentions

[fervent reef]

I suspect this is a confusion between the many different definitions of "anarchy"

[flat spoke]

Tbf, I feel like this is true of most of the orders; they homogenized em for the game a bit mostly to give people a jumping off point

[mental canyon]

Spehss.

[noble tulip]

I understand what they meant (they use anarchy with this definition several times), I just find it likely that many Willshapers will disagree either with this use of "anarchy" or with the entire concept of laws being necessary for freedom

[umbral heath]

I noticed the RPG handbook gives the enslavement of singers as the reason for the lightspren not bonding humans, even though the reason Timbre gave in Oathbringer was the Recreance.

I think that might be something Brotherwise did, since the book places a lot of focus on the singers’ enslavement, but I kinda like this reason. It makes Timbre being so ride or die for Venli make more sense.

[solid breach]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_RzOE7JRF5kUZqrrc-fR-htTyRn7GNKFoo5u24bm5nI/edit?usp=sharing I made Fused Ancestry, they are not balanced
Time to hit the hay 🥱

[dark escarp]

(Worth noting all the books received extensive review from Dragonsteel, so it's safe to assume they are fully behind this reasoning as well)

[gilded maple]

I said this yesterday but since this has come up again: eh, I think it's totally fine. I understand the urge to not incentivize groups into thinking they can grab-bag their way around the Cosmere and stab people to get cool powers.

Groups who are capable of doing it ethically or playing unethical themes in-character will just homebrew it. From a game design perspective there really isn't much to hemalurgy: get metal of an appropriate type (and we already know most of them), find someone with that attribute, and stabby-stabby. The first stab for them and the second stab for you. Presto! A new Talent tree.

Reading between the lines of their statements: Mistborn Era 3 will probably have some sort of "organ donor card but for Hemalurgy" sentiment in the culture

[fervent reef]

you don't even need the right metal, fabrial construction doesn't require it

(yes I am salty about the vagueness of fabrial rules)

[gilded maple]

As someone who has overseen five different sets of crafting rules in RPGs...they're hard to get right

[prisma wharf]

I mean, I'm fine with the simplification of fabrial rules. They still have an explanation of what the metals do, but dont make you track a bunch of things you'd just simplify to a cost anyway as a player

[stray sand]

Most anarchists draw a distinction between anarchy (political chaos) and anarchism (a society organised horizontally rather than vertically). Many anarchists are also pragmatic enough to recognise that "new laws that prevent the strong from oppressing the weak" are a good thing

[stray sand]

There's only so much crunchiness you can put into a mechanic. It was probably for the best to leave metals and other specifics about construction for players to add flavor

[solid breach]

I been thinking

You know what character would never ever worry about spiking soemone else

A inquisitor that is already spiked

[fervent reef]

I don't care about the quality of play, I only care about extracting lore
/s

[gilded maple]

It might actually focus on it too much, honestly. One of the sample Agent builds, Undercover Workform, I think, is a singer looking to "exact justice for their people." If you read their people as "listeners," well, you killed their goddamn king, what exactly did you expect? If you read their people as "enslaved 'parshmen'" ...since when do the listeners have common cause with parshmen? Did I miss some line of Venli or Eshonai's flashback dialogue?

And you've all heard me talk a bunch about my growing discomfort with how the World Guide's history chapter went so I'll leave that there

[sturdy shale]

hell yeah.

[gilded maple]

That all said if the book needed to choose a pro-singer or anti-singer side I'm glad it chose the one it did, people do need frequent reminding that enslaving people is very bad

[fervent reef]

But more grace to refugees (Ashyinites) might not go astray either...

[wanton void]

Having not read the RPG, if it did pick the pro-singer position on things, it would be in line with the books which also take that position most of the time

[gilded maple]

"They should be more grateful to have been ceded the land where we don't live because nothing grows there, and if they want to eat food they have to serve us like children do"

[dawn isle]

I just started my last batch of Cosmere minis
It only took me three because my tetris skills on the build plate are legendary xD

[quaint cliff]

Tbh, I don't really need all those systems.... But hemalurgy is like... Important for the whole cosmere because Scadrial is important.

[primal wyvern]

i want to make sure I am playing correctly, when it says "do a DC 15 test" I roll the d20 and it has to be above 15 after adding everything, right?

[thick crystal]

yes

[stray sand]

or equal to 15

[thick crystal]

15 or higher (meets it beats it is the mnemonic reminder)

[delicate moth]

"meets it beats it" is how I remember it

[clever egret]

but dont reverse that, thatd be inappropriate to do at the table

[wild swan]

well it seems like Honor knew that what Odium was doing on Ashyn would lead to them becoming Shadows so it seems plausible to me that Odium was doing stuff that the Heralds didn't know about

Your pact will complete the blessing that Odium began, then rejected—but you will become mine instead of his.

though idk if it's the same thing because it says Odium rejected it

is Ulim having a memory that goes back to when humans arrived supposed to be in the books? that doesn't seem like it's supposed to be a reveal but idk

[primal wyvern]

Am I supposed to add to my attrivutes right now? Or is that just a heads up for later?

Also, I am meant to use both sides of the character sheet, right? Or are they for different campaigns?

[delicate moth]

I believe the two sides have different things on them, it's a single character sheet with multiple pages

[primal wyvern]

thank you.

[primal wyvern]

Any thoughts on this? :D

[stray sand]

Yeah, there's some overlap, but the bottom two two thirds or so are completely different

Front side is mostly mechanical stuff while back side is mostly story stuff

[delicate moth]

Where is this?

[stray sand]

Looks like First Step to me

[primal wyvern]

geek is correct, it is in first step

I should have specified, sorry

[delicate moth]

based on this, I'd say you (if you are a player) are meant to start part 2 with 9 points spread between all your attributes

Your choices throughout part 1 will have instructed you to increase certain stats based on your decisions, with graphics like this

so this checkpoint is here to say "if you have more than 3 in anything, drop it back do wn to 3; if your total is less than 9, add extras as you see fit, until you have 9"

[primal wyvern]

okay, thank you!!

[warm shell]

Really enjoying reading the new book, love thinking about all the characters I'm gonna make and the games I want to run - if I had one complaint, I think the Radiant orders should have at least one more feature each that speaks to the resonance of their surges - at the moment we just have one each, and I feel like in the books the same surges from different orders feel quite different, and I think that part of the progression tree could have been used for more flavour

[solid breach]

Do any of them seem fun to play 🥺

[slow crown]

The different rulebooks are great, but there is plenty of room for improvement and things to add on for future book releases for the Cosmere RPG.

[solid breach]

I am probably gonna rework some of these if the theory is true that the advanced adversaries will contain boss version of the different fused

[solid breach]

Is the Stoneward resonance

Slightly more squires but not as many as windrunners ?

Or is it more

“Stoneward and Windrunners get extra squires but then Windrunners got more because of resonance”

[sturdy shale]

yeah these are implemented exactly how they should be. i dont think id ever play a fused but if i wanted to this would be it

[mortal forge]

Omg I never thought about the combination of bending time and writing aons

[shrewd anvil]

Is there a good short elevator pitch that anyones seen for gauging interest for the ttrpg for friends that havent read the books before?

[prisma wharf]

Lore wise, or system wise?

[shrewd anvil]

lore wise

[stray sand]

The handbook suggests the pitch "an epic fantasy world with a unique magic system in which a character’s Ideals unlock powerful abilities."
I don't know if that's how I'd pitch it though

[shrewd anvil]

😂

[stray sand]

Stormlight is basically superheroes in a high fantasy world.

I feel like that gives players enough of an idea of the tone and they can learn the details from Welcome to Roshar or as they play

[knotty wren]

Stormlight either sounds completely insane or vague when you pitch it, I think xD

[delicate moth]

https://www.cosmererpg.com/worlds has some overview-y snippets

[knotty wren]

"You see they are knights with big swords, and they do cool magical stuff..." Yeah okay cool

[stray sand]

That's actually not a bad summary

[knotty wren]

Oh wow yeah that is really good

[tight pier]

-# except for a typo

Truly it is a Brandon project

[prisma wharf]

At least they didn't ccream

[stray sand]

my brain just autofilled "time" there and your caption kinda blended into the background, so it took me a while to understand what was going on

[midnight bramble]

Derek here having no experience with Stormlight really puts that on full display
Though as he frequently points out, the rulebook assuming you're already completely familiar with the books doesn't help things
https://www.youtube.com/live/PCCOTgxBEL8?si=NAbatedut1GCKhGH

[knotty wren]

that... sure is a thumbnail

do you think he could include more fonts on that

[stray sand]

what decade is this video from again?

[wooden narwhal]

"In a land of crabs and terrible storms you partner with the very spirits of nature to overcome challenges both personal and world ending"

[knotty wren]

six fonts like really

[midnight bramble]

My man understands the thumbnail game xD

[trim sand]

Funky new mode! Featuring dante from the devil may cry series. & Knuckles

[stray sand]

also, "this time with someone who knows about bridges"

[midnight bramble]

Yeah...it was a struggle in Part One trying to explain why the game has a Lifting Capacity as a primary stat xD

[knotty wren]

DOES HE

three fonts total, what is this graphic design

[midnight bramble]

Hey it grabs attention and it's paying his bills

[knotty wren]

I don't know if people wanting to barf is the right kind of attention that entices one to click, but sure xD

[stray sand]

if you click the video, you don't need to look at the thumbnail anymore

[midnight bramble]

I think unfortunately the average person doesn't care about "good graphic design"
They see something loud and click

I would be curious to see how things change if he becomes able to hire help

[knotty wren]

I think a lot of thumbnails have way less text and usually have a dramatic Mr. Beast face 😛

[midnight bramble]

(He lost his job in data science earlier this year and the channel does well enough he's pivoting to it full time and planning on also getting into supplement and zine production)

[prisma wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/big-marty-blooming-panic-bloomic-gif-27655382

[knotty wren]

I'm glad!

[fervent reef]

Iirc Shadiversity has lots of this kind of clickbait thumbnails, though I don't watch the videos, obviously

[knotty wren]

hey, at least that's just one font

[gilded maple]

As a longtime Exalted player this is a perfectly cromulent pitch

[mortal forge]

If a video thumbnail doesn’t have at least 10 different fonts, I’m not clicking on it

[stray sand]

smh it has to be exactly 12.5

[mortal forge]

Bonus points if you squeeze in at least 20 imo

One of which has to be papyrus

[stray sand]

no helvetica though

[mental canyon]

Not enough heroin dinosaurs

[gilded maple]

Still got five books left for ‘em

[quaint cliff]

Tbh I would stay away from pcs wanting to be a radiant from the start.

[vital bolt]

"Space Marine Jedi with therapy faeries battle crab people with minor faerie-powered shapeshifting on a planet where the weather hates you and the grass hides underground. Also, eye colour is really important for reasons everyone has forgotten."

[pastel bison]

... this is desperate resume levels of keyword stacking

[vital bolt]

And yet...

[frosty matrix]

Still can't get a job 😭

[vital bolt]

You need more checks notes hidden grass in your CV.

[weary sky]

Not enough Rhythms

[solid breach]

man transsporation and tranformation is susch a weird mechanical combo
with the fact both of them need to invest in a reaction that do something stuff
And both reactions are prerequisites for most of the tree

[vital bolt]

Singing crabs then.

[cyan hinge]

Untrue, Shallan is running for herself and Hoid is running for Kaladin and Dalinar in Parallel campaigns

[stray sand]

The big thing I don't like about the Dustbringer Ideals is that the second and third ideals presuppose your character already wants to control and understand their power respectively, instead of that being part of the character development

Although maybe that's more of a problem with the example words than the ideals generally

[solid breach]

Tension Hair
Prerequisite: Focused Ones
Activation: *

You have learned to use your hair-like whip as a weapon.

You gain access to a unique weapon:
Hair Whip
Damage Fused die Impact ; Range Melee+10; Traits Unique; Expert Traits Unique;

If you hit a Huge or smaller creature with your Hair Whip, you can spend 1 Focus to pull the target any number of squares towards you.

Expertise: If you have Expertise with your Hair Whip. You reduce all Tension Action costs that would affect your Hair Whip by ▶.
would people recommend I rewrite this now that we know what Tension the surge doess?

[gilded maple]

That’s kind of a big draw of the game tho

[mortal forge]

I think it depends on the person and the game. I do think being a radiant sounds fun, but I also think the idea of having the game play out naturally sounds appealing and rolling with whatever happens

[flat spoke]

See, I built my character with specific traits and flaws that lend her specifically towards Radiance and stuff

[prisma wharf]

I mean, I do think thats a lot of what's good about rpgs. How adaptable they are. I wouldn't want to have the gm take the lead in radiance, but if thats what some tables want to do, theres guidance in place for that

[mortal forge]

Totally valid! I’m also only 3 chapters into the handbook myself

[cyan hinge]

I pitch it as knights with superpowers in crabland

[stray sand]

That's both completely insane and vague

[cyan hinge]

You mean interesting and mysterious

[stray sand]

no.

[cyan hinge]

You sound like an elsecaller

Willshaper! Ah…so let’s see how I’d pitch this to a willshaper…

Would you like your decisions and oaths determine your character’s abilities? It’s a lot like Paladin oaths, but the powers really test your creativity. + the world is very unique, and fleshed out. It’s ecology is designed around massive storms that tear up the land, so everything has shells, even the plants. (Also I would show you a chull) it’s based on a really cool book series.

[cyan hinge]

Nvm I went back far enough; this is how I’d pitch it

[quaint cliff]

Me trying to convince my friend to read Way of Kings

[stray sand]

It's more like 1200 on the MMPB

[quaint cliff]

Once they get to 1000 they won't be able to stop

[solid breach]

What should be the mechanical effect of making something elastic ?

I feel like fall damage is one of them

[pastel bison]

snap-back

[solid breach]

anyone got a table spot open

[tidal knot]

Gang is it just me or are stonewards the most powerful radiant order?

Like yeah I know powergaming bad but they have the craziest looking abilities out of all the orders IMO

[tidal knot]

I wish. Don't even have a table 😭

[solid breach]

Transport yourself and up
to ten companions to an
Oathgate or permanent
perpendicularity you’ve visited
before.

[tidal knot]

Fair

I was literally gonna say the elsecallers or maybe willshapers were gonna be second IMO

But with that I can pretty safely say it looks like willshaper>stoneward>elsecaller

Because to be honest, cohesion looks more useful than transportation at earlier ranks

But BOTH? Yum yum

[finite epoch]

eh, that's just town portal
it's great, don't get me wrong, especially since it's a rare ability

but it has a very niche utility

[delicate moth]

I feel like the subject of power is tricky in a system designed for a variety of encounter types and heavy focus on character & narrative over combat

[tidal knot]

Absolutely true

A diplomat is just as strong as a shardbearer

In theory

[delicate moth]

I wouldn't be surprised of the order that emulates the strongest soldier is full of strong soldiers though

[tidal knot]

Honestly I'm just glad they found a way to make tension cool

It's by far the least impressive SOUNDING surge, but this and Dami show it can be really cool

[finite epoch]

Tension was always cool, we just hadn't seen it in action yet

well, still haven't really

[tidal knot]

I would use tension to keep my guitar strings in tune

[severe iron]

Our group is 7 sessions in and I think we've had 4 combat encounters. Two of them were in one session. 😄

[dark escarp]

Tension is really cool from what the book talks about Radiants, and the capabilities of the Focused Ones

[tidal knot]

And I respect that

Once people have been playing long enough to have mid-high level radiant player characters, I'd love to hear some fun creative uses of their surges

[slow crown]

I’m curious if Brotherwise Games will bring the Cosmere RPG to NYC Comic Con this year? I’d love to play this game there. 😁

[pastel bison]

they've always been the vanguard order

most numerous next to windrunners, except where windrunner are (kind of) light infantry, stonewards are heavy infantry

[dark escarp]

Believe not, they'll be at GenCon and Nexus

[tidal knot]

They also get TWENTY SQUIRES

As do the windrunners

[pastel bison]

they really just roll up with an entire bus full of children

[tidal knot]

To be honest I think some orders should get more squires than others

But like, ar different levels

Like the edgedancers should get a lot because they're ABOUT listening and caring for people

Elsecallers? Not so much

[dark escarp]

(Stonewards get half as many as Windrunners)

[tidal knot]

Dustbringers are shown on screen as having several squires, but I think it should be more like 10 rather than 20

[tidal knot]

THEY GET 40??!

WHAT IN THE GOODNESS GRACIOUS

[dark escarp]

No no haha, as in the Windrunners are in the twenties, Stonewards are in the 10+ range

[tidal knot]

Ohh

Okay

[dark escarp]

Windrunners get squires equal to twice their level, Stonewards get squires equal to their level, and everyone else gets squires equal to their Ideal

[finite epoch]

-# reminder that the game has no level cap

-# level 100 Windrunner showing up with a literal personal army

[dark escarp]

Yeah haha, I meant just as an average when you take the talent you'll be around level 10

[slow crown]

Oh okay. That’s fine. I guess I’ll join or DM a game myself. 😁

I can’t wait to get those item cards. I feel like having cards is so helpful for me, because I tend to forget certain abilities or what the Plot Die actually does on the sport. So having those item cards makes it easier to just read the card, and remember what I’m doing. 😊

[slow crown]

I’m surprised that I got the Bridge 9 adventure. Because I did the game master pledge, but I didn’t see Bridge 9 on there. Great surprise. 😁

[stray sand]

Bondsmiths should get more to make up for there being only 3 Bondsmiths

Especially since Bondsmith squires aren't OP like other Bondsmiths (they use their surges in the same way Stonewards and Windrunners do) but they are more powerful than other squires (because they can use their powers when far away from their patron). Also, they're sandwiched between the two orders that get extra squires

[stray sand]

Bridge Nine was a stretch goal

It wasn't originally intended to go beyond the beta, so it wasn't included in any of the pledges

[solid breach]

it let you go from scadrial to roshar and back

[finite epoch]

does it, though?

[solid breach]

Elsegate
Prerequisite: Speak the Fourth Ideal; Shared Transportation
talent
Activation:
You can create more stable perpendicularities that allow
you to transport yourself and others to highly Invested
locations, even across a significant distance.
After a long rest, you can instantly transport yourself
and up to ten more willing characters, along with each
object the targets are wearing or carrying. Choose an
Oathgate platform or permanent perpendicularity you’ve
visited before. After spending Investiture as described
below, you and the other targets are transported to that
destination.
This Transportation requires significant Investiture;
you must have infused spheres worth twice as many
marks as the number of characters you’re transporting,
and when you arrive, those spheres all become dun.
At the GM’s discretion, you might be able to choose
other destinations that are highly Invested locations
you’ve visited before.

I guess you need to visit once

[vital bolt]

I would require a much higher cost than that to go between planets.

[solid breach]

bu the spiritual realm

warp distance

https://tenor.com/view/dance-spongebob-excited-woot-gif-425442738971630555

[vital bolt]

Yes, by using up lots of Investiture. Lots.

[finite epoch]

pretty sure what we got from DG's Elsegate in WaT rather strongly implies that the farther you want to travel, the more power it takes

[solid breach]

listen outside of Elsegate

.... aint the Transporation surge like disappointing?

[finite epoch]

they talk about having enough Investiture to establish the Connection between the locations

[finite epoch]

no?

what were you expecting?

you can look into Shadesmar, enter and leave Shadesmar, teleport yourself and others around, and open portals to cross large distances

it does more than I expected, honestly

[vital bolt]

It's the surge of Here To There. It takes you from here to there, let's you see into there, and move many people from here.

[solid breach]

1. explaining whatever was the chain effect jasnah did
2. explaining why it is the surge of motion when it seems to just be switching between shademar and physical realm

[finite epoch]

I didn't think teleporting around in the Physical would be a thing without Elsegates

[vital bolt]

It does more than the characters ever show it doing...

[finite epoch]

turns out Jasnah sucks at Transportation as much as Shallan sucks at Transformation

[solid breach]

and like

it literally causes a situation of "well, one of te PCS are stuck on another plane of existence"

😆

[finite epoch]

it's the Surge of Motion because Khriss is wrong

it was always the surge of realmic transition, and that's it

[vital bolt]

It moves your sight to another realm.
Moves your body to another realm.
Moves your body to a different part of this realm.

[finite epoch]

I'm still annoyed that Adhesion really is, apparently, air pressure, but I guess that's one less thing she's wrong about

[vital bolt]

And this is why I only read the first Ars Arcanum in each series.

[finite epoch]

skill issue

[midnight bramble]

I mean that terminology comes from Roshar

[vital bolt]

Literally. They should have got the Talent which means they always pass Transportation rolls.

[finite epoch]

I guess the Rosharans are wrong, then

maybe attractors and repellers count as Transportation fabrials

[midnight bramble]

I mean it does let you do funky short range teleports

[finite epoch]

it's true that we don't seem to have a talent to replicate whatever Jasnah did there

though that really ought to be a Transformation talent, or an Elsecaller combined surge talent, not Transportation

[wooden narwhal]

I might let someone do a sort of bag of tricks kind of thing where they could use that talent to say pull items out of the bag as long as it was in range. I think there are fun mechanical things that are within reasonable bounds but limited by the standard structure of the skill trees too.

[solid breach]

yes literally

[finite epoch]

the Elsegate talent?

[solid breach]

also

what are you even supposed to do with "freeform" usage of transporatio

look at people?

[finite epoch]

yeah, untalented use is limited to peering into Shadesmar

[solid breach]

no i didnt mean the specific action

from what i understand

[finite epoch]

to teleport you need to spec into the talent tree

[solid breach]

you can use any surge "free form"

[solid breach]

like describe doing something with Division not covered by the ruls

[finite epoch]

this is the free form usage

[solid breach]

but can you only stare at people with Transporat?

[midnight bramble]

Even the "free form" usage of the Surges have limitations and rules

[finite epoch]

yeah

[midnight bramble]

It's a tool that you're allowed to apply in creative ways

I can never find the damn scene, but there's one time Shallan uses Transformation to peek in real quick to look behind her to see if someone's following her

[finite epoch]

Shallan is tricky to use as an example

[midnight bramble]

I do wish there was, more to the base ability than just "is the best at looking"

[midnight bramble]

I just mean it's a creative use of the ability to look into Shadesmar

[finite epoch]

but Transformation does let you look into Shadesmar to "talk" to the beads

[stray sand]

Sidenote, but was anyone else surprised that Realmic Step, a power we haven't seen in the books afaik, comes before Elsecalling, which we have?

[finite epoch]

yep

I thought flash-stepping around in the Physical would involve using mini-Elsegates or something

but no, it's like, the most basic form of teleportation, apparently

even before Realmic transition proper

[midnight bramble]

I read the Realmic Step description, it's just hopping into Shadesmar, running a short distance, then hopping back

[finite epoch]

oh

[wooden narwhal]

A fun one, could an elsecaller convince a door to unlock via speaking with the beads?

Or maybe just pop an inanimate object into the cognitive?

I can think of s lot of reasonable things I'd let a player do even if the DCs were still high.

[finite epoch]

I think those are both plausible

I think convincing a door to unlock should be deceptively difficult

[stray sand]

I think it should depend on how often the door is locked

[finite epoch]

popping an inanimate object into the Cognitive should be fairly trivial once you have the ability to take other people with you, and possible but more difficult once you have Realmic Step, imo

Realmic Step already lets you take whatever you're carrying with you into Shadesmar
the tricky part is to stay behind and send only the thing you're "carrying"

[wooden narwhal]

The real trick are the crazy things the rules aren't ready for.

Bag of Holding, tiny hut, etc? Mini perp to the spiritual where you stick stuff in a house you claim.

If you let loose a bit from cannon I can have some real fun with this.

[finite epoch]

I think it should be hard because you're not, like, soulcasting the thing
you're just asking the object to move a part of itself a little bit
I'm not sure it's possible in-universe, but it's plausible enough I'd allow it, but it should also be tricky to pull off

or you could just soulcast the lock away

[pastel bison]

this was not my read of it

[wooden narwhal]

Yeah I think it would have a high investiture cost along with some more social skills test with a high DC.

I kind of imagine this is not so far from how awakened locks work down the road.

[finite epoch]

okay, hear me out

Tension

[pastel bison]

there's a different explanation we have for it, that, honestly, makes extreme amounts of sense

[pastel bison]

from https://wob.coppermind.net/events/202/#e5825

I have groupings of abilities that have to deal with a certain theme. Transformation, Travel, Pressure and Gravity, that sort of thing.

[finite epoch]

wait, is it just my impression, or does Tension actually only harden things?
-# I'm not complaining, by the way, this is vindication

[finite epoch]

travel works

[pastel bison]

-# one could also say
-# "Transportation"

[finite epoch]

indeed

I'm amused to realize that Elsecalling is We Have Traveling At Home

-# (Wheel of Time)

[pastel bison]

it does

it hardens, stiffens, etc.

[finite epoch]

as in, it does not soften

[pastel bison]

lots of penis joke potential

[umbral heath]

Transportation has always felt kind of cumbersome as a surge to me, because it’s very situational and requires a lot of Stormlight to use.

[finite epoch]

it always surprises me how the penis jokes never occur to me when discussing Tension

[umbral heath]

Like looking into Shadesmar seems like the most useful application of the surge by quite a bit.

[pastel bison]

that's because most of our characters suck at using it

teleportation powers absolutely rock

[finite epoch]

can't have a lot of Transportation use in the front half

[umbral heath]

But it’s extremely limited form of teleportation. You can only travel to certain locations and it’s very difficult to set up the gate in the first place.

[finite epoch]

you can hop around within spren bond range

[umbral heath]

Otherwise you can go back and forth between Shadesmar which is… alright I guess.

[finite epoch]

which is to say, within an area of up to 100 ft depending on talents, in terms of game mechanics

[wooden narwhal]

If you look at elantrian teleportation it's more flexible but also significantly harder as you need exact coordinates so there are trade offs. Plus the Elantrians have much more juice to run it on.

[umbral heath]

Isn’t that just going into Shadesmar, running a bit, and popping out?

[pastel bison]

also it takes forever to trigger

you have to draw a whole ass math equation

[finite epoch]

pretty much

[umbral heath]

But there’s no limits to where you can go.

[pastel bison]

this one single ability made Obito OP AF

[umbral heath]

I never saw Naruto.

[finite epoch]

he had a bit more flexibility with it, though, I think

[flat spoke]

You should fix that

[umbral heath]

Though for Elsecallers, you need a lot of Stormlight to use it and run the risk of getting stuck if you miscalculate or get hurt and need to heal.

[pastel bison]

yeah, and frankly, that's a problem for a lot of surges

[finite epoch]

yeah, it's pretty power-intensive

[flat spoke]

Also can't Transportation just...regular short distance teleport?

[umbral heath]

Nope.

[pastel bison]

you really don't want to be flying in the sky when you run out of stormlight either

[finite epoch]

the short distance teleport is just hopping back and forth from Shadesmar

[pastel bison]

the other description of it is hilarious

[umbral heath]

Sure but flying is a lot cooler than trying to paddle through beads, and less Stormlight intensive.

[finite epoch]

reading further down, I just realized this means teleporting into the bead sea

[flat spoke]

Ok but that's just flavor. It's no different than say Misty Step in D&D

[umbral heath]

I guess they’re hand waving how you walk through the bead sea.

Which I agree with, fwiw.

[finite epoch]

yeah, in mechanical terms it's just a teleport (though it can matter if there's enemies in the Shadesmar side )

[finite epoch]

they're not, actually

[pastel bison]

"yeah what did you do?"
"realmic step"
"that sounds so cool, you must feel so cool doing it"
"yeaah...."

[finite epoch]

it mentions that if you're teleporting over water it costs one less Investiture because you don't have to shape the beads under your feet to travel

[umbral heath]

“That wasn’t teleporting, it was walking with style!”

[finite epoch]

If you are on or above a large body of water, using this talent only costs 1 Investiture, as you don't have to shape the sea of beads beneath yourself to move around.

[pastel bison]

elsecallers just booking it across shadesmar everywhere

[finite epoch]

wonder if two Elsecallers with the Elsegate talent can just Elsegate to each other instead of a permanent perp

[umbral heath]

That could be interesting.

[pastel bison]

or even like a swap

boogie woogie style

[flat spoke]

I'd rule so, with an asterisk that they'd have to know at least roughly where the other is to "aim"

[flat spoke]

I love teleport swaps

Its so cool

[finite epoch]

the way I've been interpreting Elsegates is as two linked perpedicularities
so if an Elsecaller forms a perp around themself to transport in and out of Shadesmar, and can link that perp to a perma-perp to Elsegate there, then two Elsecallers could form perps and link those together, then step from one to the other

[pastel bison]

if they know each other well enough, it'd also make neat connection

[prisma wharf]

I mean, isn't this pretty much how oathgates work? Both making elsegates to each other and swapping?

[pastel bison]

huh, yeah

they do do basically exactly that

[flat spoke]

You mean... Connection?

[finite epoch]

knowing each other very well is, canonically, enough to have a Connection

[flat spoke]

Unclear, I think; unless the rules explicitly say such and I missed it

[umbral heath]

I think if we knew how much Investiture is required on each side, it would be easier to say.

[finite epoch]

oh, huh, do we not have rules on the amount of Investiture it costs to activate an Oathgate?

[pastel bison]

didn't check

[finite epoch]

ctrl+f "oathgate" didn't yield any rules in this regard

[prisma wharf]

I thought there was something in the world guide on that, but I could be wrong

[finite epoch]

ah, found it

Oathgates also require Stormlight to function. Each Oathgate can hold a small amount of Stormlight in its ten gemstones—enough to transport a single person.
Transporting larger groups usually expends 3 marks worth of infused gems for each additional person transported; however, if the Stormlight in the Oathgate’s gemstones has already been depleted, it requires an additional 50 marks to activate.

[flat spoke]

Yeah idr. Tbf there's a LOT of words lmao

[prisma wharf]

Definitely

[finite epoch]

funny how searching for "oathgate" didn't help but "platform" did

also that's in the world guide but not handbook

oh?

Notably, Radiants of higher Ideals require less Stormlight to operate these
fabrials; a Radiant of the Fourth Ideal needs only 2 marks per person (plus 35 to activate the gate), and a Radiant of the Fifth Ideal needs only 1 mark per person (plus 20 to activate the gate).

that's interesting

[pastel bison]

and annoying

but yes, interesting

[midnight bramble]

Maybe the closeness to the other realms makes it easier to move Radiants back and forth?

[finite epoch]

it's not moving Radiants per se

it's cheaper for Radiants to operate Oathgates

[midnight bramble]

...huh

[finite epoch]

I think this is related to the same mechanic that makes Radiant abilities more efficient as they progress through the bond

[midnight bramble]

...Could it literally be a discount

[finite epoch]

...maybe

[tight pier]

I'd chalk that up to generic efficiency improvements that higher ideal radiants see

[midnight bramble]

Oathgate spren are charging a personal Stormlight tax xD

[midnight bramble]

But the Radiant isnt the one doing the magic

[finite epoch]

they probably form a bond with the Oathgate spren when they operate the Oathgate, similar to when you use a Soulcaster

I'm just not sure why the benefits would transfer like this

[midnight bramble]

Are there any similar rules for Soulcasters?

[finite epoch]

not that I'm seeing, but I'm only skimming the rules

handbook page 264

you can use your Transformation skill when activating a Soulcaster, if you have it

[midnight bramble]

But nothing Ideal related
Bizarre

[midnight bramble]

hrm

Maybe Oathgates are...incomplete?

[finite epoch]

you know

Oathgates appear to be basically just inkspren that agreed to stay in one place and grow to their maximum size, right

and they use Transportation without being bonded to a Radiant

so going with your idea of them being incomplete

maybe the Radiant just stands-in for their missing Elsecaller in the process, if there is a Radiant available when the Oathgate is activated

when a non-Radiant uses the Oathgate it's like it's a squire using Transportation instead of a proper Radiant, I guess

[midnight bramble]

Non-Surgebinders can't activate it

...Or well, can a Radiant pass their Blade to someone else?

[finite epoch]

don't see why not

[midnight bramble]

idr if it's ever mentioned

[finite epoch]

they can just summon the Blade and hand it to someone else

but yeah, brain fart

[flat spoke]

It's done in the books, at least lol

[midnight bramble]

Do you have the quote?

[finite epoch]

just so we're totally clear

you mean handing a summoned Radiant Blade to a non-Radiant, right?

not like, transferring the bond or something esoteric like that

because Shallan does lend her Blade to Kaladin in the chasms

whether that was Testament or Pattern is ambiguous, of course

and Shardbearers can lend their (deadeye) Blades without severing the bond as well

[midnight bramble]

I mean for the purpose of operating an Oathgate

[dark escarp]

They at least can operate it with an Honorblade, so being Radiant isn't a hard requirement

[finite epoch]

still a surgebinder, though

[finite epoch]

that I don't recall if we ever see

[pastel bison]

I'm wondering if it's a little bit like the Radiant warps realms and makes the jump less expensive because of that

kind of like how Autonomy wanted a bunch of metalborn hanging around where she was building her perp

[finite epoch]

but it's not like it costs less to operate if there are Radiants in the platform

it's that a higher Ideal Radiant can operate the Oathgate more efficiently

[pastel bison]

I mean, it could be

the rules don't necessarily have to be exhaustive

[finite epoch]

I mean

if that was the intent, they could just write that instead

that for each Radiant on the platform it costs a certain amount less Investiture

depending on Ideal

[vital bolt]

There's a point at which mathematical complexity of the cost becomes too great to worry about representing canon any longer.

[finite epoch]

all I'm saying is that if the intent was to represent that the presence of Radiants makes the transportation easier, the rule could be related to the number of Radiants on the platform instead of how Invested the Radiant operating the Oathgate is

we didn't get any art of the soulcaster spren, right?

[tight pier]

we did not

[finite epoch]

Like Shardblades, your Soulcaster can’t travel with you to Shadesmar. In its place appears a small, unresponsive spren, hovering with their eyes closed.
still no idea what they look like

other than having eyes, I guess

[clever egret]

the soulcaster spren have their eyes closed and they have a cognitive effect where if an artist tries to draw them, they also have their eyes closed

such a rosharan move to say "it looks like a spren" to describe something. of course. the spren looks like a spren. everything is so clear now

[flat spoke]

Ah yes. That tree looks like a tree. Let us never describe it in further detail

[finite epoch]

funnily enough the trees do get more detail

[clever egret]

no actually thats kinda fair when you say "tree" its pretty easy for me to picture a tree

what do you picture when i say "spren"?

[flat spoke]

Ball of vaguely shaped light

[clever egret]

❌ thats a lightspren

[finite epoch]

-# in the physical, no less

[flat spoke]

Actually tbh when I hear soulcaster spren, I see baby Cell from DBZ

[clever egret]

✅ thats correct!

[flat spoke]

That thing

[finite epoch]

oh, that baby Cell

I thought you meant the Cell Jrs

[wooden narwhal]

You say this be when describing Roshar that tree might just be a hunk of coral.

[flat spoke]

Nah Cell Jr's are entirely different

[finite epoch]

some crystally, metally tree... things, actually

if only I remember where they're actually described

searching the ebook for "tree" is unlikely to be helpful

Jagged lightning branches made of something that wasn’t quite glass—for it was too rough to the touch—sprouted silvery leaves that felt metallic and cold.

[wooden narwhal]

Sometimes they just lay down to avoid the rain.

Roshar is wild and the cognitive realm is just extra

[finite epoch]

-# I am once again asking why are there plants in the Cognitive Realm

[vital bolt]

-# For the Cognitive bees to pollinate.

[solid breach]

Don’t it despwwn when it leaves your hand on the RPG

[finite epoch]

it also does in the books

it takes active effort to keep it summoned when you hand it to someone else

well, for a Shardbearer

for a Radiant, you can just ask the spren to stay manifested

oh, and by the way, @solid breach , I found a rule that may be of interest to you
you asked what counts as an Invested weapon recently

any items charged with Stormlight.

[finite epoch]

found the relevant rule

If your bonded Shardblade leaves your hand, it instantly dissipates again unless you will it not to.

[dark escarp]

Which is how they work in the books too

[flat spoke]

Wait what is this a description of???

[finite epoch]

trees

in Shadesmar

[flat spoke]

Aahh

[solid breach]

Charged or infused

[finite epoch]

good question

not sure if there's a difference

I think anything infused counts

in fact, consider this phrasing:

Much like infused spheres, some items can hold a charge of raging Stormlight or are otherwise connected to the Cognitive or Spiritual Realm.

[midnight bramble]

It's weird cause in a lot of other places the phrasing makes a distinction between infused and Invested

[delicate moth]

This is tricky to get right consistently

especially because a gemstone holding Stormlight is not actually Invested, but a gem that has been Lashed is

[solid breach]

Wait is the gen invested or infused ?

[delicate moth]

Speaking from a general perspective, I am not familiar enough with the text of the RPG, gems are infused - that means they act as a container for Investiture, but are not themselves Invested. Which means you can move Investiture around with them, but they wouldn't resist magical effects in the way a metalmind might

[sturdy shale]

huh interesting

[thick crystal]

I see no functional difference between these two things.

[knotty wren]

Brandon has long said infuse is just what Rosharans call Investing.

[delicate moth]

(hold up, we are having a fight about this)

[knotty wren]

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/247/#e5528 look, is this near and dear to my heart because Brandon personally told me? yes, yes it is

[midnight bramble]

The terminology of the rpg is frequently

You can’t use this surge on Invested objects (like
Shardplate) or objects that have been infused with
Stormlight (like infused spheres or objects affected by surges).

[knotty wren]

good!

[midnight bramble]

Just a weird terminology distinction the game makes for some weird mechanical edge cases id guess

Does lead to a lot of extra words every time they want to say you cant affect something Invested though

[stray sand]

Is there anywhere they say one thing but not the other

[delicate moth]

What do you mean "good", this draws a distinction between Invested and infused, which is what you don't like!

[stray sand]

I think it's because the mechanics treat them the same

[knotty wren]

it's for people who don't know the intricacies of the terminology, not that there is a mechanical distinction

because you'd say the gem is infused because the books say that

when it is clear Invest/infuse/charge are all the same thing

it's writing to a specific audience

No doubt the Mistborn guide will have similar phrasing for "charged" metalminds or spikes

It is completely fine for them to use more words so it is clearer to more casual readers so people don't need to go to a specific section to say, "Yeah sure sure the books say infuse but actually people in a completely different place would say that isn't the correct term and would say X instead"

Book is for normies

The mechanic is also treating them exactly the same

[midnight bramble]

There are times the rules indicate something infused but dont mention something Invested, and vice versa

[knotty wren]

early and any infused Investiture is lost.``` is a fun one on pg 162 of the handbook

these are 100% synonyms

[midnight bramble]

Far as I can currently find, the one singular implication one should treat the two different terminologies as referring to the same thing mechanically is a single sentence in chapter 7...except there it doesnt talk about infused, it talks about charges, which is a mechanical term

[knotty wren]

yeah, so that's gameplay mechanics

[clever egret]

investiture infused in an invested illusion, also illustrated as an infused illusion, can be lost if the infused investiture is diffused by reducing health to 0
is a much clearer way to say it imo

[knotty wren]

it's also more words

[clever egret]

i know i was joking by trying to make it alliterate as much as possible

[knotty wren]

xD

I couldn't tell you how serious you were hah

[stray sand]

wouldn't "...illustrated also as an..." flow better in terms of alliteration

[clever egret]

there are many ways to improve the alliteration i just tried to write it as fast as possible

[knotty wren]

In general the RPG writers have the super fun experience of making things relatable to Stormlight-only readers, cosmere-aware readers and that implication, and people who aren't familiar with the books, while being as concise as possible. I'm sure it must be fun with synonymous terminology as to which to choose

[stray sand]

easy, just call everything a spren

[knotty wren]

everything is a Surge!

[clever egret]

roshar has been training us for this very moment

[knotty wren]

every planet is roshar too

[midnight bramble]

I think it would have perhaps been clearer to earlier in the rules indicated that anything infused with Stormlight is Invested, and then reduced their redundancy elsewhere
It's pretty obvious for us to understand what it means, but ive been watching people read it live on stream and it's often complete nonsense to them

[knotty wren]

oh, I'm certainly not saying they nailed the balance, just that it's really hard!

[stray sand]

your six stats, Roshar, Chicken, Spren, Surge, Shadesmar, and Ideal

[finite epoch]

bottom line is, a spear with a Lightweaving on it can, indeed, hurt a Husked One in ribbon form

[knotty wren]

the most important facts

[stray sand]

a man can say

[knotty wren]

"Tell... my brother... the most important fact a man can say." "What is that?" "A spear with a Lightweaving on it can hurt a Husked One in ribbon form. Remember that; those guys are a pain in the ass to kill!" "What"

[solid breach]

So

Truthwatchers can make useless illusions just to go “holy blessing of the radiants protect these weapons against magic”

But if you shoot non magical arrows out of a infused bow does it hit the husker one

[finite epoch]

no

the arrows would have to be Invested

[clever egret]

infused with investiture to created an invested state

[stray sand]

investiture-infused, creating invested investiture

[finite epoch]

arrows Invested with Investiture to interact with an Invested entity once it has begun an Investiture while it persists in its Invested state

[red walrus]

Huh, I would have thought that the power cost 1 Investiture each for appearing in Shadesmar and then 1 for back in physical.

I guess this means, it takes only half a point of Investiture?

[solid breach]

But it is attack with a invested weapon

I am just being pedantic

[tender citrus]

This is groundbreaking! We now know for sure Vax is specifically a Planet!

[red walrus]

We at least know it is either a planet or a system. With higher chance on it being a planet

[tender citrus]

damn you are right. Still we really narrowed it down greatly from our former understanding of "propably a place but we dont know for sure"

that is like a huge amount of new information. We can now definitevly confirm it isnt a parking lot or a pizza place!

[pastel bison]

yeah uhhh

general IotE ||may have dropped that particular bomb already, for a bunch of people :p||

[tender citrus]

well sorry I wont look at that...

[tidal knot]

I hate all this theorising about Vax

That's why I'm an antivaxer

[prisma wharf]

Sh ||honestly, im just mad about vax because its what brando made ati's last words be rather than some cool moment||

[tidal knot]

Jokes aside, Vax is a cool planet name, but I HATE Mythos

It's the most generic thing ever

[tidal knot]

Yeah could have done better there, but I'm fine with it

[finite epoch]

gotta use common sense at this point

you need an Invested weapon to harm them in ribbon form

that means the weapon that contacts the ribbon has to be Invested

if the arrow isn't Invested, it won't have an effect

I could imagine some kind of Invested bow that infuses arrows as they're shot, though

that would work

[severe iron]

In which we go spelunking and deliver justice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne8RFtpbFOA

[mint blade]

What I need is the soundtrack for the graphic audio versions of the Stormlight books so I can switch between the various songs as I run the game

[oblique edge]

...I really like that idea

[mint blade]

Classics like "Chorus singing triumphantly while a Radiant does something awesome", "Harsh beat for a gritty fight", "Depression", "Singer doing Singer stuff", and "That one with the bells that plays during the disadvantaged duel"

[narrow frigate]

the track the GA uses for Kaladin's "John Stormlight" hype and aura moments, Priest Ordination by Guillermo Guareschi, is the first thing I thought of using when running this game

[severe iron]

There's the TWoK soundtrack. Is that still for sale or did it get taken down for good?

[prisma wharf]

Its on Spotify

[gilded maple]

The "Kaladin" album?

[severe iron]

Yeah

[noble tulip]

Anyone been to the Cosmere RPG events at Gencon (either the Mistborn preview or the panel) and has something interesting to tell?

[still aspen]

The Mistborn adventure is going to be Levels 1-9 instead of 1-6

I wasn't taking notes but off the dome

• some cool art
• the two gun-specific specialities for Era 2 are Sharpshooter (Hunter) and Gunslinger (Warrior I think?). They are dropping the "use big guns" one
• a little bit on Compounding and metal interactions. Nothing too specific but it seemed cool
• general talk about the design and roadmap.

• they said they are talking about an expansion for Mistborn Ghostbloods. And it would likely include expanded metal tables for the metals with shorter trees (because we don't have as much info on them)

[tight pier]

as in levels 1 to 9?

[still aspen]

• Brandon wanted Full Mistborn to be unbalanced compared to everyone else. And they had to pare it back to make groups fun

[stray sand]

I'm curious how the whole level progression thing works with the having two parties thing

It would be interesting if the two parties were at different levels

[umbral heath]

Makes sense, it requires players to make two characters so you’d probably want a longer adventure for that level of investment.

[still aspen]

Oh yeah also talked about how the campaign. Mistborn Legacy ||will include opportunities for your actions in Era 1 to affect the Era 2 portion. And how they want to include sidebars for doing neat stuff like having different GMs or entire groups for the two era sections. ||

[sharp tundra]

Man. The world guide really just straight-up ignored the existence of the Shallow Crypts.

[clever egret]

maybe itll be explored in the back 5? theres still stuff to discover around the shattered plains and natanatan hasnt really been explored at all yet, but has some weird oddities to it like the blue skin and that tower/moon story

[umbral heath]

I think part of it is just that the World Guide can only cover so much.

[stray sand]

The World Guide was too short in general

[umbral heath]

It was nearly 300 pages, there’s only so much they could do.

[stray sand]

It could have been a similar length to the Handbook

[clever egret]

they had a pretty lengthy section recapping the books which i found a bit odd. like id have thought itd be better to either keep that much more brief to the key points specifically relevant to the world/campaigns, or just not include it at all. as it is, its enough to detail to spoil the books for people who havent read it yet, and a probably too lengthy recap for people who have read the books

in any case, i definitely think they should have prioritised the world aspect to at bare minimum give a proper background for the areas of the world. especially since they were advertising being able to play as a natan character for example. if brandon wasnt ready to provide canon details for natanatan yet, itd have been nice if theyd been upfront about that

literally all we get

[sharp tundra]

Yeah somewhat less new or novel info in the world guide section than I was expecting.

It essentially reads like a collection of Coppermind pages.

Especially for places that haven't been focused in the novels.

[clever egret]

the coppermind has vastly more info on natanatan, especially new natanan, stuff thatd be genuinely useful for players to know if they were creating and playing natan characters. like for example, natan politicians and probably a lot of natan people thinking theyre entitled to stormseat and the plains. thats a neat character hook that can drive drama and ambition when a natan character is in the warcamps or in urithiru etc

the worldbook doesnt even mention the moon story! or even address their blue skin at all. like come on

!wob https://wob.coppermind.net/events/39/#e457

[inland peak]

#SandersonChat Twitter Q&A with Audible.com (Feb. 4, 2016)

Chris Hansen

Are either the blue-skinned Natans or blue-veined Babatharnams human-Aimian hybrids?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

[clever egret]

i didnt even know about this wob lol. would have been good to learn it in the worldbook

[tender citrus]

we really need a follow up on that wob to clarify which. The "either" kinda leaves some ambigiouty there...

[inland peak]

Search: "either" (1/... (250)) General Reddit 2017 (Aug. 30, 2017)

Brandon Sanderson

I've watched this conversation with interest, and wasn't planning to step in, as it's exactly the sort of thread that's generally better without me. Author intervention can derail a good discussion.

But after considering, I decided I did want to talk about this topic a little. There are two things going on here. One is the mistake I made with Jasnah in Words, which I've mentioned before. One is a larger discussion, relevant to the cosmere.

Warning, WALL OF TEXT. This is me we're talking about.

You see, Jasnah wasn't originally meant to be a fake-out. Jasnah originally was going to go with Shallan to the Shattered Plains--but she was really messing up the outline, diverting attention from Shallan's character arc and pointing it toward Shallan/Jasnah conflicts instead.

My biggest breakthrough when outlining the book in detail was the realization that the book would work so much better if things I'd planned to do with Jasnah in it were diverted to later books. When that came*… (Check Arcanum for more.)*

[tender citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/мда-gif-15258606377206180081

I am to dumb to use discord bots....

how did that even happen lol?

[fervent reef]

"Kaladin"

[inland peak]

Search: "kaladin" (1/... (250)) The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021)

Matt

Were you tempted to have Kaladin be taken by Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I was tempted.

Matt

What is it the held you back from doing that?

Brandon Sanderson

Kaladin, if I were going to do it, I would have done it with Dalinar. The reason being that Kaladin as a theme represents his triumph over the darker parts of his mind. And Dalinar represents that too, but he also represents in some ways, succumbing to those. Like those are both themes for Dalinar, and for Kaladin it just would not ever have worked--I don't think--reasonably well. And beyond that, Kaladin is not scary as a villain, because Kaladin's strength comes from the people he's trying to protect. Kaladin's really scary to face when he thinks you're going after somebody he's trying to keep safe, that is when Kaladin is dangerous. Or as you saw in Rhythm of War, when you've gone too far, right? But Kaladin as an overarching villain, I don't think would be scary. Dalinar would be; Dalinar would be terrifying in that situation, but I don't think it would just add very much. If I were going to have had one of them, it would have been Dalinar.

[fervent reef]

You replied to the bot with a word in quotes so it did a search

[tender citrus]

Ok that makes sense. I guess 😅

Wait is that how you actually use it? 🤯

let me try:

@inland peak "Kaladin"

[inland peak]

Search: "kaladin" (1/... (250)) The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021)

Matt

Were you tempted to have Kaladin be taken by Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I was tempted.

Matt

What is it the held you back from doing that?

Brandon Sanderson

Kaladin, if I were going to do it, I would have done it with Dalinar. The reason being that Kaladin as a theme represents his triumph over the darker parts of his mind. And Dalinar represents that too, but he also represents in some ways, succumbing to those. Like those are both themes for Dalinar, and for Kaladin it just would not ever have worked--I don't think--reasonably well. And beyond that, Kaladin is not scary as a villain, because Kaladin's strength comes from the people he's trying to protect. Kaladin's really scary to face when he thinks you're going after somebody he's trying to keep safe, that is when Kaladin is dangerous. Or as you saw in Rhythm of War, when you've gone too far, right? But Kaladin as an overarching villain, I don't think would be scary. Dalinar would be; Dalinar would be terrifying in that situation, but I don't think it would just add very much. If I were going to have had one of them, it would have been Dalinar.

[tender citrus]

I have finally understood how to summon the bot.... 🥹

-# (for the record: this is not sarcasm. I really didnt get how people called the bot until now 😔 )

[clever egret]

ngl i dont think ive ever seen anyone use replies or @ ing the bot intentionally to summon it, and the replies especially always seem to catch people out. but its cool the functionality is there. usually i summon the bot via !wob "kaladin+shallan+adolin"

[inland peak]

Search: "kaladin+shallan+adolin" (1/28) Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Questioner

Was Adolin and Shallan always the endgame, or did you ever shift to Kaladin?

Brandon Sanderson

I did shift, back and forth. So, what I do with a lot of my relationships is, I don't usually plan them out. A lot of characterization, I have to leave the characters kind of their own volition. So I write my way into relationships and I write my way into the character elements. I plot my world, my setting, and my plot out ahead of time but I let the characters go where they're going to go. I know some people would rather she made a different decision, but that is the decision that felt right to me going forward.

I've just validated all the Shallarin people on the internet saying, "Aw, he changed his mind!"

[clever egret]

if you wanna mess around with the bot but feel self conscious about spamming a channel, #botspam is the perfect place for that. i sometimes search for wobs there before i bring them into a convo to make sure i can find em

[solid breach]

RPGs can function on difference between PCs

it can be done 😢

wait if full mistbron are unbalanced

what the hell is a feruchemist

https://tenor.com/view/bruce-almighty-morgan-freeman-i-am-god-hello-hey-gif-4743445

[paper eagle]

Don’t know if anyone knows this but the physical books will be available for purchase to the general public this October. That is the stormlight Archive, not the Mistborn RPG. My mind is blown!

[prime cloak]

Coming actual play done by 12 sided studio this fall. 👀👀👀 https://bsky.app/profile/johnnyoneal.bsky.social/post/3lvg7th5ukk22

Johnny O’Neal (@johnnyoneal.bsky.social)

Last night the @brotherwisegames.bsky.social had an after-hours mixer that included a sneak peek at a new Cosmere RPG actual play by @12sidedstudios.bsky.social, featuring @jwcartwright.bsky.social as GM! All of us are so excited to be working with Jasper and his all-star team!

Bluesky · Aug 2, 2025, 12:59 PM

[tender citrus]

That works too? Didnt know that thanks

[solid breach]

well to be fair

that is a myth

and in reality what happened was that people like Axies got around

[tender citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-is-it-though-thor-bruce-banner-gif-14242312

[tender citrus]

we dont know that. That wob might only apply to Babarthanans if we are really pedantic

-# and we are

[solid breach]

I feel like

The world guide for scadrial will be more interesting than roshar

simply because Roshar is so big

while Scadrial can actually "make up stuff" during era 1

and make it be "canon"

[fervent reef]

A moon did come down to the ground though

[tender citrus]

getting way more details on the different Southern Scadrian cultures would be dope

[solid breach]

see

that is the problem

that would be a bunch of new information

[tender citrus]

Ok lets go crackpot with this: What if Moons can shed their skin likes snakes do and the crashed moon is Mishims former outer crust?

[solid breach]

which might be relevant since ghostblood is like what?

less than 100 years in the future?

[stray sand]

I don't think we're getting much Southern Scadrian info

[solid breach]

but era 1, that has alredy happened

that is where no new lore will be relevant

[tender citrus]

but that is what I want 😭

[solid breach]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Scandinavia

there you go

👍

[tender citrus]

that also applies to pre-malwish consortium southern scadrial

[solid breach]

.............. i dont think that is playable

[tender citrus]

That is not new information. I grew up in Sweden... 🇸🇪

[tender citrus]

why wouldnt it be?

[solid breach]

isnt that basically helll

like horrible living conditions

[tender citrus]

and?

[solid breach]

wait how

did southern scadrial survive so long

[tender citrus]

They where more advanced than the elendel basin

and they had medallions

from the sovereign

[solid breach]

wasnt that because of Kelsier?

yeah

[tender citrus]

yeah. The sovereign

[solid breach]

so how did they survive before kelsier?

[tender citrus]

they didnt

but it was only a couple of years

like they kinda could still struggle on for a while

their population numbers likely went low but humans can totally adapt to survive in cold enviroments

[solid breach]

i thoguht the enviroment was too hot?

[tender citrus]

no it was to cold for them

[midnight bramble]

I think yallre talking about different parts of the timeline xD

[solid breach]

and that is why they were freezing?

[tender citrus]

wut?

why would they freeze if it is too hot?

[solid breach]

the problem was that it was too cold?!

[midnight bramble]

During Final Empire, the south was super hot
People adapted
Catacendre happens, and now the south is temperate, but people adapted to heat, so it's too cold for them

[tender citrus]

to cold for them. They cant handle cold as well as other humans can

I am talking about pre malwish-consortium Southern Scadrial(llike a year ago). Not pre-Catacendre(300+years ago)

[stray sand]

Isn't pre-consortium just pre-TLM

[solid breach]

what the hell is consortium

[tender citrus]

yes

[midnight bramble]

Do you mean the word?

[stray sand]

Malwish-lead southern government

[tender citrus]

It is the united south

[tender citrus]

ok was gonna correct you there but you did it yourself 😅 👍

[midnight bramble]

It's like the EU but if Denmark was actually in control

[tender citrus]

As a swede I legally have to oppose this... /j

[stray sand]

Norway it is

[tender citrus]

that might be the compromise 🤔

[solid breach]

okay but I looked it up

that is basically the same southern scadrial as before

just under a united front

there isnt gonna be a difference

[tender citrus]

It will be very different in a couple of years

[solid breach]

what makes you say that

[tender citrus]

because a whole continent of formerly hostile nations united under one banner during a technological revolution(and that is even ignoring possible alien migrations happening)?
What could possible make me say that? /s 🤔

[solid breach]

... what technological revolution?

oh all the non-magitek from elendel?

[tender citrus]

no

they are more advanced than elendel

[solid breach]

yeah

their technological revolution happened a long time ago

😕

[tender citrus]

It is still ongoing and will certainly get a second wind because of the cold war

like they will have computers in era 3. They have to get there somehow

[stray sand]

I mean, Earth is in its third or fourth industrial revolution right now. It's not one and done

[solid breach]

yeah

but

"a couple of years"

[tender citrus]

yeah

[solid breach]

make it sound like less than 10

[tender citrus]

much will happen in 10 years. Much more in 20 and so on

[stray sand]

I think the core point is that if they wait until the Era 3 Guide to cover Southern Scadrians in depth, you still won't be able to play in the Era 2 South

[tender citrus]

And ignoring the technology they united a bunch of formerly hostile nations and have encountered a foreign one. There has to be some Insane cultural and societal changes to

[solid breach]

I think

we just need to accept

[tender citrus]

my point is that era 3 south will be very different than era 2 south and therefore it should be fine to include lots of world building for era 2 without revealing much from era 3

[solid breach]

that all the world guide

will basically be one ... trilogy behind when it comes to useful information

like while I want elantris next

it is gonna be better if brandon finishes elantris seqquel

but if he does that it will probably bring up more questions, etc

[tender citrus]

I can agree that there might be some truth to that

[stray sand]

Imagine if we get the medallion flowchart in the form of the medallion crafting rules

[tender citrus]

I really hope we do

[solid breach]

wouldnt that imply

that Era 2 will be based around the concept of post Lost Metal

like before that, what kind of "loot" do you give players

[tender citrus]

I am really banking on an Silverlight-WOB style random infovomit. We just need to prod him with the right question 🤣

[solid breach]

in stormlight
the physical/tangible rewards are fabrials, shards, special weapons and animal companions

[stray sand]

Was he even prodded on that

[tender citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/counting-money-paper-stacks-gif-9918098029500472876

[stray sand]

I'm pretty sure he randomly brought it up

[tender citrus]

cant remember. But it was glorious

[midnight bramble]

Fancy guns?

[tender citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-ayutha-pooja-arnold-schwarzenegger-heroes-gif-hollywood-gif-13768401820019360728

https://tenor.com/view/tin-thumbs-up-gif-27542331