Cosmere RPG

[clever egret]

cant believe they wouldnt follow the internal/external push/pull physical physical mental enhancement temporal organisation scheme which everyone knows about

[flat spoke]

Ah. fair lol

But ofc

[delicate moth]

Be the change you want to see in the world!

[fervent reef]

ikr

[fervent reef]

four-by-four table with nine elements. Table formatting is bad at the best of times, this'll be even more fun

[knotty wren]

(Got interrupted at work) Like we will fundamentally get less supplements because vaguer time periods like the Silver Kingdoms versus what MAG can do, because MAG just did whatever. Whereas here they will want that supplement to be canonical so there's just more... Checking, and less canon to build off of. It'll be interesting to see what Brotherwise does for supplements.

[midnight bramble]

The copper and bronze descriptions actually make me wonder if they might be involved in the more complicated spanreed/pairing fabrial designs
The way spanreeds are operated never made much sense before
But now i wonder if bronze/copper can let you influence the relative receptivity/transmission of a spanreed pair

[clever egret]

here u go

[flat fulcrum]

[prime kayak]

Rah Rah

forum supremicy

[tidal knot]

Yay we're famous

And by we I mean you bc I'm not on the forum

[weary sky]

Because of course that's the quote for Captain Kaladin Stormblessed.

[weary sky]

Who are these two supposed to be by the way?

[finite epoch]

as I mentioned earlier, I think it's the Starfalls vision duo

a Windrunner and a Stoneward

at night

[delicate moth]

What page is that again? I want to check something

[weary sky]

Oh I thought that was from a different reply my bad

[clever egret]

this is what you get when you dont let carcinisation stop

[weary sky]

I don't remember but it's in the handbook

[finite epoch]

255

Handbook

[delicate moth]

I need to figure out how to pull image descriptions from the PDF...

Nothing of note on this one though

[prime kayak]

I come up in google when you look up "Argenti Cosmere"

So

I'm basically famous

[tidal knot]

Yeah someone could make a typo while looking for Argent and then you come up!

Just kidding that actually is cool

Especially when I'm pretty sure there IS a character named argent mentioned

[fervent reef]

do we know if Ryshadium have gemhearts? any new gemheart lore?

[tidal knot]

They're horses so I would assume not

[void dune]

someone on the art team with two buttons that say "enough crab" and "MOAR CRAB" on it just repeatedly hammering the latter

[tidal knot]

It's proven you don't need a gemheart to bond spren because humans don't have them

[prime kayak]

Yeah that too!

(it's happened)

[finite epoch]

they've evolved stone hooves, though, so it wouldn't be surprising for them to also evolve gemhearts

the world guide doesn't say, though

neither that they do, nor that they don't

[prime kayak]

( @prime kayak is very easy to make)

[weary sky]

The art of Adolin riding Sureblood... Here looks a lot less regal than in my head because of the size disparity

[prime kayak]

( Just be glad i'm not purple anymore)

[tidal knot]

You should change your name to Evgenii

[stray sand]

Sounds like a Roman family

[tidal knot]

The Evgenii family, known for derailing talks in the forum

[weary sky]

The hordeling art for the mouths need a TW good god the heebeejeebees

[prime kayak]

Unfortunately, impersonation of a mod is punishable by death :Argenti:

[tidal knot]

Except for when it's funny

[prime kayak]

Even when it's funny

[tidal knot]

Trust me I'm actually ladylameness' alt account

[delicate moth]

Perhaps this derailment has gone for too long, hmm?

[tidal knot]

Oh god we summoned him

[signal cloak]

Hum?

I was summoned?

[tidal knot]

Oh no 😭

[signal cloak]

👀

[delicate moth]

Perhaps a review of this channel's spoiler policy is in order too, hmm?

[tidal knot]

Oh my bad I thought this was yumi stuff

[knotty wren]

As in that Emberdark is not permitted untagged

[tidal knot]

All I know is its one of the books I haven't read

[prime kayak]

Is this genreal cosmere?

What is everyone's first charchter gonna be?

[stray sand]

The spoiler policy is explained in the pin

[tidal knot]

Emberdark was published less than 6 months ago Apparently

[stray sand]

It was literally this month

Most backers (myself included) still don't have physical copies

[midnight bramble]

The preview of the pinned message on the mobile app actually makes it look like there isnt one

[delicate moth]

Where?

[midnight bramble]

It cuts off perfectly, no indication there's more to the post

[delicate moth]

goddamn discord

suppose it's easy enough to at least switch those sections

[knotty wren]

Maybe separate pins may be better

For different purposes

[midnight bramble]

Discord tries its hardest to hide channel summaries and pinned messages
It's like they've got a vendetta against their own features

[void dune]

those dont generate O R B revenue

[stray sand]

and threads

[delicate moth]

Well, if we tried to dance around Discord's - everchanging, I might add - UI, we'd have to chop our pins into a bunch of tiny little messages

[stray sand]

#1391792347020267643

[midnight bramble]

Oh it's not yall's fault.
It's the uncaring universe and eldritch forces that bind us that're at fault.

[tidal knot]

So true

[mortal forge]

Back during the campaign I was thinking about an Unkalaki third son who went to Thaylenah to become an artifabrian.

[delicate moth]

Stonewalkers content is going to be instantly nuked from this channel, I am not going to ask people to tag

(from all channels, actually - except where it is allowed)

[tidal knot]

What's the tagging policy in the channel?

Like I have a question about stats to ask, but do I tag it or not?

[delicate moth]

I promise you I am not being mean here - does the pinned message not do a sufficiently good job at explaining? How can I make it clearer?

[tidal knot]

Ah I literally just read it

Probably should have asked afterwards

[prime kayak]

Ooh cool

[tidal knot]

This is a very good question but I haven't had the time to consider it because I know I'd have to be the GM

But I doubt my group will even bother

[vital bolt]

Three. There's one in the other book.

[finite epoch]

oh, no

[prime kayak]

Yeah i saw a total of three

Only one of which was any use

[midnight bramble]

which other book? i got like 3 other books

[finite epoch]

ah, it's not too bad

[prime kayak]

Nightform grants voidbinding

[finite epoch]

it's just vague WoB nonsense we already knew

[tidal knot]

Voidbinding is when you see the future

[finite epoch]

These unusual powers include future sight, which is believed to be related to Odium and Voidbinding.

[tidal knot]

And colloquially, when odium grants surges

That's my theory at least

[midnight bramble]

Oh is that from the Enlightened TW bit?

[vital bolt]

World Guide and whatever the rule book is actually called.

[finite epoch]

I have so much irrational hatred for that line

Fused surgebinding is specifically not Voidbinding
is Voidbinding seriously just Ashynite surgebinding?

[midnight bramble]

Handbook
The two mentions trielt were referring to were one from the Guide and one from the Handbook, so that's why I was like ???? whcih book?

Seems the Handbook has two references then

[vital bolt]

Yeah, in that case there are two in either the Guide or Handbook, but I can't remember which. :) But I def. found three when I searched them both earlier.

[midnight bramble]

...wait, is my pdf search borking?

[tidal knot]

Borking

[midnight bramble]

ignore me, i cant keep track of anything between these pdfs rright now

[tidal knot]

I hate to talk smack about banger art

But

[finite epoch]

readies kermit

[tidal knot]

One of the dalinar pieces in the handbook has serious white pharaoh energy

[tidal knot]

Like if I knew how I'd photoshop him into a pharaoh headdress

[clever egret]

what page number is white pharoah dalinar

[midnight bramble]

Ah, the beauty of pdfs having consistent page counts...

[finite epoch]

On Roshar, Midnight Essence is associated with one of the Unmade

👀

[midnight bramble]

Far as I found the only reference to Midnight Essence being something bigger than Re-Shephir xD

[tidal knot]

Page 50 of the pdf

[finite epoch]

yeah, it's interesting to see it phrased in a way that makes it clear that this is Roshar's version of midnight essence rather than something which is also called Midnight Essence

[tidal knot]

Also by the way, there's an earlier dalinar art piece which is AMAZING. Like so so so good

[prisma wharf]

The one that shows the different phases of his life?

[prisma wharf]

As that one got me going

[tidal knot]

Yeah page 32

[tidal knot]

The win screen on the roshar themed slot machine

[tidal knot]

Peak

[midnight bramble]

which pdf?

[tidal knot]

Players handbook

The one castle just posted <3

[clever egret]

he does give me frat boy energy in this somehow. like seeing his face square on just makes it look like some college guy thats been drinking too much

[midnight bramble]

ah page 46

[tidal knot]

Sylvester dalone

[clever egret]

it was page 46 in the players handbook, page 50 by what pdf reader says

[tidal knot]

I'm not trying to be mean but it's genuinely hilarious to me

[void dune]

this goes so hard

i really need an artist index

[tidal knot]

I love the costume design though

[midnight bramble]

God, he reminds me of a specific Japanese actor whose name i cant recall

[clever egret]

oh you mean an index for each art piece, yeah thatd be nice

[vital bolt]

The Cortex RPG habit of reprinting a thumbnail at the back with the artist is a good approach.

[void dune]

this was specifically what i had in mind yep

[delicate moth]

I am probably going to work on something like that for the wiki

It'll just a bit

[tidal knot]

Just going through the book and looking at all the art and wowowowow very good

[delicate moth]

As you have seen, there's a lot of art 😛

[void dune]

argent cooking

something tells me that lamaery is gonna win my heart again though with his work this book

[tidal knot]

Yeah mad respect on whoever takes the time to source everything because WOW there's so much

[delicate moth]

I wanted to have this done for launch, but then this Emberdark thing came ahead of schedule...

[tidal knot]

Oh Lamaery is pretty much my favourite artist ever

[void dune]

this is giving petar panev

[tidal knot]

It's giving beautiful

[clever egret]

loooool they put lunamor in the pronunciation guide but not numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor. cowards

[finite epoch]

we must send feedback
this must be rectified

[clever egret]

they simply understand that theres no need for a guide there. the pronunciation simply rolls off the tongue

[vital bolt]

It'll be in the Advanced Adversaries book...

[flat spoke]

The Radiant orders + surges are ordered alphabetically too...😔

[finite epoch]

smh, it should have been ordered in clockwise order

[vital bolt]

Good. Much easier to find them.

[clever egret]

the double eye of the almighty is the superior organisation format for any list

[finite epoch]

funnily enough the alphabetical order for the fabrial metals actually made it harder for me to read the list

because I'm so used to thinking about them in push/pull pairs

extra funnily, I have the same problem with the Mistborn AAs

[flat spoke]

Tbh, a story set during a desolation I feel would be easier to make canon-compliant, because there's less canon to bump against. But, im sure BW and DS will work it out

[finite epoch]

I'm reading zinc, then go looking for brass right next to i-- what do you mean it's all the way up there

[prime kayak]

I hate Hoid's stupid face

[clever egret]

peep this #1391790178435207290 message

Only three Bondsmiths exist at any given time, and
wielding their extraordinary powers as a player character
would unbalance gameplay. Consequently, Bondsmiths
aren’t presented in a playable form in this book.
i love how they just outright say "yeah nah"

[knotty wren]

In some ways, yes, but there's much more to approve to say "yes, this IS canonical"

[flat spoke]

Yeah, I get what you mean. It's more work on Brandon/DS's side to set boundaries and limits on what can and cannot be included, unlike True Desolation, where the events of the books are pretty much just laid out for us

[tidal knot]

I bet the fabrial construction bit would be VERY non-canon pre recrience

[flat spoke]

Yeah, that's the other part, gameplay has to be semi-canon, not just story

I do hope we'll get at least one Heraldic Epoch supplement, but I'm not dreaming of anything more than that -- not when there's like 4 other planets still cooking lol

[knotty wren]

Look, I want Silver Kingdoms stuff more than anything in the Cosmere. That's the time period I want to play in

So like they need to do that eventually

I just wonder how bare bones it will be. Like, the world guide is sticking very close to canon

[clever egret]

the back 5 will have ample opportunity to flesh out silver kingdom era a lot more if we get more info from heralds/herald flashbacks. suppose thats not a guarantee tho

[undone hull]

This is kino

Final Fantasy Dalinar

[flat spoke]

True!

[clever egret]

aw thats so cute, this sheet got coloured in

[flat spoke]

Yeah, seems like all of the Shallan pages that are in the book got that treatment

[knotty wren]

Oh that's adorable you think we will ever get proper Silver Kingdom lore

I have very little hope for that

Like, maybe!

[flat spoke]

Let us coooopppeeee

[knotty wren]

I would love it

[finite epoch]

Silver Kingdoms are the new Classical Scadrial

[clever egret]

am not fussed waiting for it canonically, once i start playing the campaign and getting used to it all and refreshing all the lore in my head im gonna go crazy homebrewing silver kingdoms/desolation story stuff

[flat spoke]

Real af

[clever egret]

bridge 9 ||reading through that campaign, i love how it emphasises frequent npc death and desperate attempts to save them. i feel like style would be perfect for a one shot||

[tidal knot]

Well there's nothing stopping you from just writing a game and saying screw canon, this is how I want to write the silver kingdoms

[knotty wren]

Oh yeah homebrew the crap out of it, I'm just curious about what Brotherwise will actually do as things advance

[knotty wren]

Well, except time xD I would love to GM something, but I do not have the bandwidth to do so when I have to write my own books

[tidal knot]

Oh wow I didn't know you were an author!

[tidal knot]

This is also true

[knotty wren]

Well, working on it!

I cannot allow myself to get too absorbed in tabletop campaigns

Not like the DM for the DnD game I'm in which is... Extensive xD

[undone hull]

something I miss about the Way of Kings is how raw that book feels at times. Later books toned down the brutality and grittiness.

[knotty wren]

Stormlight healing alone definitely gives a very different feel

There's definitely an appeal to the low powered stuff

[solid breach]

where is it allowed?

[midnight bramble]

It's not usually Brandon's style (see the changes he made to Shardblades during early drafting), but magical healing has such potential for absurd brutality

[shrewd anvil]

Oathbringer was pretty crazy still

[knotty wren]

There is a Stonewalkers post in this forum for you

[shrewd anvil]

not as much after that though I dont think

[knotty wren]

For dedicated stuff for that

[vital bolt]

#1391792347020267643

[undone hull]

I don't even mean the healing. It feels like how gruesome each injury was a lot worse. I think Oathbringer ||the kid Shallan gets killed being pretty nasty though.||

[weary sky]

To be fair, we could have had a viceral scene with Renarin v Thunderclast

Even with stormlight healing

[tall river]

so skybreakers have division available at first ideal, so I suppose it is up to the spren to actually lock it after the 3rd then in general so it's up to how you wanna rp the highspren?

[weary sky]

That was the gist that I got from that too

[tall river]

Further than that maybe you do fully have access to division you just swear to not use it without permission anyhow

as part of the discipline code

I wonder if forbiding skybreakers from using division until then has an effect on gameplay balance accross radiants of same level

[clever egret]

i think itd be kinda funny to do an "unlocked door" thing where you tell the player they cant do division until 3rd ideal, but if they actually try to do division before that then it goes off as easily as anything else and the highspren gets petulant

[tall river]

I will absolutely do that

[weary sky]

"I'm not even mad, I'm simply disappointed."

[tall river]

"I should have known you couldn't even follow basic instructions"

Yes, yes... I am playing a skybreaker so I can do that both as a player and as a GM

I have an extremely annoying highspren lol

[weary sky]

Would they cease being a highspren if they weren't?

[tall river]

they instantly combust I believe

into a little investiture explosion

[undone hull]

Imagine you have an annoying rules lawyer at your table and you throw out whatever order they were going for to make them a Skybreaker

[simple solar]

this has to be Dalinar's portrait on the Coppermind

[clever egret]

and their highspren always one ups their rules lawyering

[weary sky]

Highspren follow RAI

Just as a juxtaposition

Especially if they are highspren that broke away from Nale

[clever egret]

whats RAI?

[weary sky]

Rules as Intended

[tall river]

The way we did our campaign (with the entire table agreeing) was that the GM picked which spren approached us first after a few sessions.

My character was a complete disaster so it took a few more sessions for a spren to appear

[weary sky]

Kinda like Spirit of the Law vs Letter of the Law

[tall river]

I did RP to eventually get more or less skybreaker but the other players didn't, and some hadn't read SA at all.

So it was fun that way.

[vital bolt]

Should have instantly attracted a Cryptic then.

[simple solar]

hey, would someone mind DMing me some of the best art from the rpg pls? I like to 'collect' the best pieces of fanart and i don't have the books

[weary sky]

If i ever get to play, I would rather my spren be a surprise

[tall river]

Not that kind of mess... well... okay I did specify i didn't want to be a lightweaver, I like RPing things that are the furthest away frmo me as possible! (Thus Skybreaker 😈 )

[tall river]

I think it's pretty fun! But it's kinda hard to not meta RP into some order even unconsciously.

My character was a gambling addict so it took a few sessions for things to start going in any direction

[weary sky]

True. Even just knowing your character well you're already kinda having an idea of what would make sense for them to attract

[tall river]

Yup! I think that's more fun for people not aware of stormlight books tbh

[clever egret]

ive posted quite a lot of the good ones here, if you search my name and messages containing images you can see a few of em. the top two are from the stonewalkers channel so ignore those, they arent big spoilers tho

[weary sky]

I can't imagine someone going into Stormlight blind, getting to experience spren and bonds and radiant orders through the RPG

[tall river]

one of them attracted a cultivationspren and the other a cryptic and both were REALLY confused to what was going on

yes imagine you have some vines randomly start talking to you about wheels while crawling up to you.

[weary sky]

I would love to GM for a group of Stormlight noobs just for the reactions

[tall river]

But you're fully unaware of SA books.

[weary sky]

"Why is this blinking light humming at me? What?"

"You feel it's now humming at you angrily"

[tall river]

yup

[clever egret]

ya i really dont know how to approach this with my players yet. i think only one of them is familiar with stormlight and i know communication with players is good but i really dont wanna overwhelm em, and saying like "heres 9 things you could be and theyre really complex and youd have to do work to get them" feels like itd be a bit much, but then i dont wanna hide that info from em

[tall river]

"a rip in the air appears and you can see the night sky, the night sky starts telling you of all your faults, says you might have potential if you just listen to it, insults you before closing up"

[vital bolt]

Given you can't join an Order until second level, you don't need to have the conversation at the start.

[tall river]

I personally (we were playing with beta rules) found the culture stuff to be a bit more overwhelming than the paths/orders

If you want to be somewhat canon that is.

Like you'll have a guy just read a book in the middle of alethkar and internally go NOOOO

[solid breach]

?

[clever egret]

ya thats true, but then i dont wanna put them in a situation where theyve made a character with certain expectations and then having this radiant stuff revealed makes them think they wanted to play a different kinda character to get a different radiant but theyve already established their character

[tidal knot]

Since highspren are confirmed to be massive losers, I wonder what ashspren are like when you try to use division early

[clever egret]

vorin men arent literate

[tidal knot]

YES obligatory "Kelly won't shut up about dustbringers" post

They're the coolest order okay

[vital bolt]

Depending how quickly you level up, you can always give them a free retcon about their character.

I always do that after about three sessions, regardless of the game I'm running or how experienced the players are.

[clever egret]

this is so true... im such a big massive nerd about stormlight so i absolutely will know all this stuff but im gonna hold myself back so hard from overwhelming my players with that... but its gonna kill me...

[tall river]

I think you can tell them a quick rundown without going into order details, personally. Also the paths in this game are so changeable anyway.

[solid breach]

isnt that kinda ....

[tidal knot]

What

[tall river]

I basically did a culture writeup (it was only a few paragraphs long) about culture and religion for the table. Just for them to get a feel for it when they were choosing their characters (Again, because we were using beta rules and that stuff was not really quite there)

[tidal knot]

This channel allows WAT spoilers and I know it's pretty much only 12124 who is a pushover

[signal cloak]

Chaos GM 👀 One day...

[clever egret]

true, i think ill do that then. i probs wont be running this until september when we are all irl so ive got time. might try and arrange something online beforehand just to let us all get a feel for it

[solid breach]

no i meant racist

[tidal knot]

Oh! Yes actually

[clever egret]

spren do love their racism

[tall river]

Yeah, I think I will run the Step 1, which will be a session just to introduce the system and stuff. Most of my table will have read the SA books or at least up to WOR except... one person? So it'll be easier.

[tidal knot]

Cognitive anomalies aren't physical and therefore I can discriminate

[clever egret]

im gonna be playing bridge 9 for my current online ttrpg group next week, its only two people so more manageable and both very experienced, and one is familiar with stormlight so im gonna use them as guinea pigs to get used to gm'ing again and also the setting and rules. ill try and make it fun for them but its probably gonna be a lot of "hang on let me read the handbook for 5 minutes..." or "wait no that wasnt right. woops oh well lets carry on"

[tall river]

I felt explaining Vorinism was kind of relevant for RP, otherwise you're just doing sort of dnd but with extra fairies imo. Though to each their own of course. I won't go bananas on accuracy but at least trying to follow some cultural basic stuff.

[clever egret]

i doooooo love the drama vorinism adds

[vital bolt]

There's a Welcome To Roshar document that has most of this stuff in it.

[tall river]

Yup, I can tell you half of my table will not read that.

[tidal knot]

But yeah, point is, I wonder what you'd reaction you'd get if you tried to bust out division on the first ideal. Like, highspren see themselves as "outranking" their radiants, I wonder how the Ashspren see their authority

[tall river]

So I will be legally allowed to rant. Which fine by me.

[clever egret]

it is good but honestly even with all my experience thats still overwhelming 😭 great art tho

[weary sky]

Not your fault the women PCs are arrested for scandalous safehand behavior!

And men reading!

[tall river]

Yup!

and like if you wanna play a listener before the Everstorm...

[weary sky]

Wait, did I skim through dullform in the singer forms?

[tall river]

I will consult with the table about how hard they want me to go about gender roles though

Because it can be frustrating at first if you wanna play a woman I guess. Though I personally find it pretty fun.

[weary sky]

Yeah, even if I knew next to nothing about Roshar, I would personally love to have as much immersion as I can get

Helps me get into my characters mindset much easily if I have societal norms to think about

[solid breach]

highspren can read minds

[clever egret]

i think the worldbook addresses that pretty well. like before the true desolation the gender roles are really strict, but as time goes on and everstorm arrives and war breaks out, and female radiants are flying around, people start caring a lot less. so depending on where you start the story in the timeline is gonna determine the strictness, and over time it gets less obnoxious

[tall river]

Yeah, I just, I have someone that will not play anything but female.

And then might complain if she's restricted early on. I can see this happening from afar (2 months early I can see it happening)

so I think it's better to address it before starting than getting annoyed later

that's for me and the people I'll GM though, cause I do know them

[tidal knot]

My suggestion is, if they want the immersion of the world without you know... that

[tall river]

I don't really need any suggestion, I just will talk it out openly so we're all on the same page/happy about it.

Vecna's point about giving them a free retcon is also great, certainly noting that down

[tidal knot]

I was gonna say just make people weirdly open minded

But defo talk to ur player

That's like the number 1 thing

[clever egret]

to be fair they do also suggest that if players wanna be literate men or unrestricted women, they can simply have a non-vorin nationality which isnt too rare to come by in vorin settings

[tall river]

Yes, that's the idea if that's what they want.

[tidal knot]

Yeah I mean, that's like half the world

[wanton void]

Yeah, Reshi people don’t really care

[tidal knot]

AND I'm pretty sure a lot of places are technically vorin but very heretical

Like the Natan people are vorin, but they worship Kalak AS the stormfather

Who's to say they don't believe in gender equality?

[clever egret]

free retcon feels too cheap for me. id have to tie it into lore somehow. maybe someone was wandering through shadesmar and accidentally damaged a bit of their cognitive aspect, giving them the equivalent of brain damage and a new personality. that works

[tall river]

I am fine with cheap, ultimately I just want to learn and for everyone to have fun

[knotty wren]

Yeah that's going to be the opposite of giving you the sequels to my books xD

[vital bolt]

When I say a free retcon, I mean for anything. After about 3-4 sessions I let any of my players change anything they want on their character sheet - powers, personality, or whatever.

It's an OOC tool to allow people to enjoy the game once they've found their feet. I absolutely don't need it to make sense IC, because it didn't happen IC - they were always the new version.

[clever egret]

i did have an rp session last night where i feel i messed up my characters roleplay and wish i could retcon that 😭

[tidal knot]

Hey, most of the time people won't remember unless it's like, crazy

[clever egret]

a dawnshard restructured reality, there we go it makes sense IC

[tidal knot]

Think about it, if your character did it, it's technically in character

[tall river]

I remember one time I was playing with a bunch of noobs and my character changed personalities VERY fast because they needed someone far more involved/active in the table.

the personality surely did some massive parkour that session lol

[tidal knot]

It's a rare mental disorder called party parent syndome

*r

[clever egret]

..... it was crazy. my characters usually tend towards very crazy. but theyre not supposed to get that crazy. i just cant hold back sometimes cuz its so funny in the short term but then i feel bad in the long term

[tidal knot]

No reason to feel bad, mistakes are a normal part of life

The fact you noticed it actually makes you good at it

[clever egret]

oh ya i mean im pretty good at being reflective of my rp and im usually very happy with it, its just last night i feel i fumbled ill get over it

[signal cloak]

After sequels? 👀 👀 👀

You would be a fun DM is all I'm saying

[knotty wren]

Ehhhh xD no promises. It's a thing I'd be interested in, but feels like would take all my limited creative time

Yeah I think I'd enjoy it

But it's the same sort of reason why Brandon learned he couldn't DM

I don't need to try DMing to know what would happen

[vital bolt]

I find they scratch different itches, but perhaps that's just the style of running games I have.

[knotty wren]

Your books and styles are very different from mine xD

[hollow sphinx]

Easier to make canon-compliant now, but having to invent so much adds restrictions to whatever random concepts Brandon might want to come up with in the future, whereas with a story set in the present you have the major boundaries already known

Stormlight still having fifteen years left in it makes planning kinda complicated, I'd guess

[jaunty pelican]

I’m sad alternate Skybreaker path didn’t get a tease -_- now I gotta make my own BatmanSkybreaker Oaths 2/3/4 😣

[hollow sphinx]

There's a "GM Tip: Skybreakers and Canon" note which explains that it works differently in the books and provides an alternate ruleset if you want to follow that

[tall river]

aaah, I didn't check that bit, gotcha!

[hollow sphinx]

Though the wording it uses is very careful to avoid taking a stance on whether this is innate or a Nale thing

[tall river]

Yeah that's fine, I'll check it out

[hollow sphinx]

Guessing they figure most players want to use their shiny toys much more quickly

[jaunty pelican]

Yeah I saw that, and it is a path. They just didn’t really give you enough to work with other then “Ehh You can Wing it.”

[flat spoke]

True. But at the same time: the desolations lasted...what, three thousand years, give or take? That's a really long time, with plenty of room to tell stories lol. And in the end, there was more than one desolation. So...idk the excuse of "locking things into place" doesn't quite feel...entirely valid to me. It's an explanation, but not one that really covers it all, ya know? Idk im kinda rambling lol

[knotty wren]

Swear to the pirate code and be your own Skybreaker!

[hollow sphinx]

There's def plenty of room to tell stories, but it's hard to be sure ahead of time what you will and won't need to leave open
See: the number of WoBs that Wind and Truth decanonized, some of them fairly major

[flat spoke]

Eh, WoBs are psudo canon anyway

[jaunty pelican]

Exactly. I was kinda expecting an Alternative to 2/3 Ideals for Skybreakers for those of us who dont wanna follow Herald CrazyPants

[hollow sphinx]

Right, but the RPG would be actual canon

So if the RPG came out before Book Five and had taken any of those into account in their stories, suddenly it interferes with the book in unpredicted ways

My guess is they want to avoid this scenario by sticking as closely to immutable already-canon things as possible (though this is not something they have said, just me speculating based off what we know about how Brandon operates)

[knotty wren]

I'm not sure why you thought the Ideals would be different; it's just the standard and thing you're swearing to is different

[flat spoke]

Right but that's what the conversation between BW and DS/Brando are about lol. Discussing what they can lock down, what they shouldn't, where that grey area is, etc. I'm not saying they should do whatever they want. But that I hope that they at least get to explore that part of the timeline a bit

[hollow sphinx]

For sure I do hope they end up able to

Just I imagine they want to take things carefully

[clever egret]

i wouldnt mind if they did a CosmereRPG Original campaign and used their skills and resources to make something that could be canon but doesnt have to be canon cuz its very clear in the branding that its something special to the rpg

so brandon can override it or go with it or whatever as he pleases

[hollow sphinx]

Wobsmere RPG

Not to be confused with Wodesmere RPG

[flat spoke]

Yeah, psudo-canon is a powerful tool, and I think it should be used. That's the wonderful part about TTRPGs, after all

Is that the stories are typically self-contained

[knotty wren]

Literally for a second thought you said you're doing an RPG campaign in The Original's setting

[clever egret]

not getting into any detail about stonewalker content, but on a meta level im not particularly excited or enthused about a "canon" campaign, id much rather have a novella or novel if i wanted story. maybe its different for other people but i dont think ill ever be under the illusion that the events of my campaign or even the structure of a campaign is gonna feel like a real story, and i dont need it to try, so i genuinely wouldnt mind if they scrapped the idea of their campaigns being beholden to canon. at best thats like an easter egg, at worst its just restricting lore to a specific source thats largely inaccessible

[oblique edge]

So are we allowed to share the "Welcome to Roshar" pdf with players, or is there a free download link somewhere?

[clever egret]

you can share whatever you want with players, they say so

ive shared welcome to roshar, the worldguide, and the handbook

[delicate moth]

It's common for groups to have only one copy of everything, so yeah

[clever egret]

By downloading these digital book files, I hereby agree to the following: I understand these files are for personal, non-commercial use only. I will not share these files outside of my personal gaming group.

[oblique edge]

Thank you

[hollow sphinx]

I think it's a neat idea that at least in theory works in this case, but I do hope we don't end up with actually important stories told this way

("in theory" because being a non-gamer I have no idea what the actual playthrough experience is like)

But it'd be cool to get some pseudo-canon stories in time periods we know less about too yeah

[pastel bison]

on the otherhand, I'm completely fine if they do even more setting books with gorgeous art for everything

[hollow sphinx]

yesssss

[weary sky]

Someone has already made a bondsmith path in the RPG discord

[hollow sphinx]

the art is so good

[weary sky]

I'm so stoked for all the Mistborn art coming

[clever egret]

i mean just having a story brandon worked on/approved of is like good enough for me. it being absolutely canon doesnt do anything for me cuz any time a player character does something i could be like "well ehhh i mean thats probably not how it actually happened" and that doesnt add any value to me, just kinda distracts

[weary sky]

What they've already shared looks amazing

[pastel bison]

right?!

[flat spoke]

Star wars ||Cough palpatine has returned cough||

[solid breach]

imagine how great the world guide for nalthis or sel is
roshar and scadrial is way more explored

[weary sky]

The sexy TLR one already goes hard

This is my favorite so far

[solid breach]

so cute

[weary sky]

I'm sad that I misunderstood the solo play for the RPG was only for the First Steps

[dark escarp]

They are planning full solo play support for the Cosmere RPG! In fact they got one of the best solo TTRPG designers in the business to design it. It's just still a ways off from being ready to release

[solid breach]

i am surprised the first step was alreayd done

I assumed that they would need to change it to account for the fact in a solo TTRPG you might have bloated stats to account ofr the fact you are going on a "solo run"

[flat spoke]

The First Step is more like an in-world character builder as I understand it

[solid breach]

yeah, i meant

as in, i would imagine when playing solo you would for examle have more than 12 attribute points

[weary sky]

Oooh

[weary sky]

Which was where my confusion lay. I was under the impression that the solo mode was tucked into the First Steps alone

[tidal knot]

It's all about interpretation tbh

[jaunty pelican]

While yes. I was kinda expecting an example of a “Rebellious” Skybreaker. Not just insights into how their surges are granted but more like “Your Spren is a rebel HighSpren. Hiding your nature from Nale should be of uttmost importance for the safety of your Spren.

[hollow sphinx]

Wouldn't be surprised if this is too much of a potential plot point in future books to get into here

Since Szeth is planning to seek the dissenters out

[jaunty pelican]

See I don’t need spoilers to whom and where they’ve been. More here’s how one might act if they were of the Rebellious Highspren.

[tidal knot]

Yeah I would have liked to have seen that. Though also that's definitely spoilers for future stuff

But yeah I think honestly it gives the DM creative licence to do whatever they want with the dissenters

[jaunty pelican]

see Im not asking for spoilers so much as guard rails?

[stray sand]

I believe they said it's next after Mistborn, so expect it around this time of year in 2027

Also I came here to say that I hate the fact that the phrase "Rosharan Shadesmar" now exists

[jaunty pelican]

like an offhand comment during when they are talking about High Spren venerating Nale and living together and disliked by most spren. maybe just throw in a "HighSpren whom disagree with their fellow Highspren are considered Rebellious and excommunicated from HighSpren society.

Maybe an offhand comment when it’s talking about Nale hunting down budding radiants like “especially Skybreakers not under his grace”

Keep it off handed, and phrased more as guardrails than facts.

I dislike that the only good guy path for Skybreaker is to seemingly do a 2.0 of what Szeth does. ….Which, I don’t wholly mind, as my Skybreaker. As soon as Nale asks I’m spitting on the ground and Swearing myself to Taln. 😂

[tight pier]

Szeth Patron benefits: you can talk to a crazy person

straight yapping about surges

[clever egret]

oh damn if you pass a DC 35 you can get pre-ashyn exodus lore

could take a cheeky peek at the Shattering i suppose

[tight pier]

speaking of past events, was anyone else surprised that they canonized this in the worldbook?

[delicate moth]

goddamnit, aaks

[tight pier]

Lift Patron benefits: friendship with a weird child

also funny that Kaladin got friendzoned in his own RPG bio

[delicate moth]

you fool

"best friend" is anime speak for future romance

[tight pier]

so these three are also Kaladin's best friends?

[delicate moth]

all college roommates

[weary sky]

Depending on the fic you've read yes

I just realized what's been bugging me about that Vyre art work. It's Kpop Moash

[knotty wren]

Kaleshwi

[tight pier]

he is mogging

[clever egret]

how does the Lore stat work? is it just a flat + to a d20 roll? cuz im not sure how you could get higher than a dc 25 cuz max lore is 5

[placid hornet]

why are they aurafarming

[finite epoch]

Lore is a skill

it's skill rank plus attribute

[jaunty pelican]

Spoiler Alert: It didn’t work.

[delicate moth]

god, I love Leshwi's marbling in this art piece so much though

[finite epoch]

but yes, you just add the number to the roll

[clever egret]

After a long rest, you can choose one past event you’ve
either heard about or experienced, then make a Lore
test. The DC is determined by how long ago the event
took place, as shown on the Past Sight DC table.
i dont get it, can it go above 5?

[finite epoch]

let me check something before I speak out of the wrong end

[delicate moth]

some effects can increase that temporarily, I think

[clever egret]

ive been trying to look for that but i cant find any

[finite epoch]

so, skills have at most five ranks and attributes have at most 5 ranks

so the natural max would be +10

then you can add conditions on top of that, I think

[jaunty pelican]

The Tension Fused really hit the nail on the head for me. 😩 it’s perfect. I just want fatform art too 😭

[finite epoch]

for Lore, the skill modifier is your Lore rank plus your Intellect

[clever egret]

okay so that could get you to dc30 on a nat 20, but we need to hit dc35 so we can get that sweet sweet Shattering lore. what conditions add 5 more lore?

[weary sky]

Playing at Brandon's table with him as the GM

[flat spoke]

No no see, Kaladin is actually trans, so this is just typical lesbian erasure! /j

[flat spoke]

Kaladin's got two hands, all I'm sayin'

[jaunty pelican]

Everyone shows up to the Table as Scholar Elsecallers dump statting everything except Lore 🤣

[flat spoke]

Its so cool but its so hard to draw

[hollow sphinx]

"You are engulfed by an endless mist as you fall into the vision. Gradually it fades, until suddenly darkness rushes up from below, flinging you out. Before you left, however, you caught a single glimpse of a sign in an ancient script you nonetheless somehow understood, which simply reads 'LORE UNDER CONSTRUCTION, TRY AGAIN LATER'."

[finite epoch]

haven't found an effect that increases Lore or Intellect specifically yet, but you could use the Leader's Decisive Command buff

it gives you an extra die you can add to any roll

[weary sky]

"Hey Brandon here!" Plays in the background

[knotty wren]

If you look too far back, the Dawnshards all simultaneously kill you instead of Adonalsium and your character dies

That'll show YOU for passing such a high DC!

[hollow sphinx]

You attract the attention of the Night Brigade and Roshar is destroyed, sorry

[weary sky]

Oh better yet, Nohadon sits your character down for some bread

[hollow sphinx]

record scratch So you're probably wondering how you got here...

[jaunty pelican]

If someone gets the DC35 lore check. They are getting a Vision of a Moon Impact.

[knotty wren]

Lmfao

Yes, you just get killed by Fourth Moon

That's the good stuff

Maybe you can romance the moon before she crushes you

[finite epoch]

castle, I have bad news for you

you'll have to wait for the Sel supplement

[jaunty pelican]

Scholars in the RPG just mass rolling Lore Checks in the Shattered Plains trying to get Moon Vision to drop 🤣

[finite epoch]

I searched for the word "increase" across the entire PDF and found not a single instance of "increase lore" or "increase intellect"

my deepest apologies

[clever egret]

you can get so close to being able to pass a DC35. becoming a scholarform can give you Int beyond your cap, bringing you from 30 to 31. if you get a Int enhancement somehow you can get from 31 to 33...

if you got both Int enhancement and Lore enhancement at +2 with scholar form, thatd be enough! we'd finally get to know!

[jaunty pelican]

Zinc Spike from MistbornRPG?!?!?! Incoming DC35 threshold!!

[clever egret]

wait! this could work? what dice is this?

[finite epoch]

the size of the command die depends on level, I think

[jaunty pelican]

Omfg I have it guys.

Some rolls a DC35 lore check and passes…..

“THE MOON HAUNTS YOU!!!”

[finite epoch]

it's a d4 at first, but then it grows to d8 and so on

[clever egret]

its a d4! a scholarform could do it!!!!!

[finite epoch]

and you can add it to the d20

[weary sky]

Hold on, we have an easier solution to this. Ask the Nightwatcher!!?!

[finite epoch]

that's easier?

[jaunty pelican]

She replies “The Moon Haunts you” as you leave 🤣

[knotty wren]

Oh yeah the command die is fun

[finite epoch]

this RPG has trolled me
it also uses phrasing like "you count as having one additional rank of X skill"
I am not searching again

[tight pier]

ok, it's a bit on the nose that Re-Shephir fled to a place called "Rashir" after the events of part 1 of OB

the Alethi should have known better than to name a place that

[finite epoch]

(on that note, with the Scholar path key talent you can also raise your Lore by 1)

[jaunty pelican]

You know. I wonder if that could be a back 5 plot. Seeking out Powerful Unknown Spren ala a MoonSpren and trying to wrangle them into being a new potential Bondsmith.

[clever egret]

so its really simple guys. all you have to do is be a listener/singer, get an enlightened truthwatcher spren, level up to glimpse the past, have int maxed, have lore maxed, take scholar form, have leader die, get a nat 20 and get a 4 on the d4, learn that the Shattering happened in world, and then then use the ability and ask the GM. they must tell you the truth of what happened

[finite epoch]

Choose one cultural or utility expertise you don’t already have, and choose two different cognitive skills that aren’t surge skills.
When you make a test, you count as having the chosen expertise, and you count as having one additional rank of each of the chosen skills.

[knotty wren]

Hey hey you could roll the upper tier d8 command die, it's slightly easier!

[clever egret]

we can learn so much 🥳

the way the table is structured we can extrapolate that a dc 40 would let you look 100,000 years into the past 🤔

[midnight bramble]

Witness the birth of God and claw out your eyes.

[jaunty pelican]

😂

[knotty wren]

That just gets you a vision of Brandon's living room when he started inventing the cosmere

[midnight bramble]

Going all One Above All i see

[hollow sphinx]

dc 65ish to look beyond the birth of the universe

[jaunty pelican]

You know. One thing this book has done with the addition of Dead Shardplate weighing 1400lbs….the floor of the arena musta looked like a monster truck rally after the Duel 🤣 imagine how much dirt those guys kicked around.

Like the Palaces must have Shardplate Paths made specifically for them. Otherwise they must be replacing floor tiles every where they go 🤣

[midnight bramble]

Part of me imagined powered Plate was lighter, but considering the special rule for Ryshadium I guess not

[jaunty pelican]

I also thought this. You are not alone.

[clever egret]

ryshadium can carry up to 1000 lb, double what a normal horse can carry. they could have made shardplate weigh like 800 lb and it be counted on the rhyshadiums weight

i dont think you could possibly fill up a ryshadiums capacity. well i guess adolin proved that by the bags upon bags of weapons he attached to gallant for the shadesmar expedition

[jaunty pelican]

Idk I’m like @midnight bramble if it’s powered and in use it should probably drop to like 600-800lbs due to invested shenanigans.

[midnight bramble]

1700lbs is absurd

And that's 1700lbs on a planet with weaker gravity

[jaunty pelican]

I wish we woulda got Stacked Galant Art. Just bristling with swords, maces, axes and spears. 🤣

No shields because of course Adolin wouldn’t want to cover his drip in any way.

[midnight bramble]

If my quick math is right, Plate would be 1888.88888888888 lbs on Scadrial

[jaunty pelican]

So even if Iron or Steel effected Plate it would be moot 🤣 Wax at his max could barely pull those weight numbers.

[midnight bramble]

2,266.6666666667 lbs on Sel

[clever egret]

maybe this is why shardplate is so strong. its not because the material is especially hardy, its just ridiculously shockingly dense

[fervent reef]

Is pound a measure of mass or weight?

[tight pier]

weight

[clever egret]

yknow what, i bet they needed it to be so heavy so that youd require atleast 7 strength to be able to use unpowered shardplate

[wild swan]

oh cool

[tight pier]

still know nothing about her though

even thought the book is written in god voice

[wild swan]

I forgot what they were called

[tight pier]

Stonewalker spoilers has to be tagged here

[wild swan]

oh right

[cedar temple]

i'm having... thoughts on the initiative replacement

[tight pier]

https://discord.com/channels/304777819936784385/1391792347020267643

[cedar temple]

like, the PCs, in case of them taking a fast turn, can just.. always act before enemies?

[flat spoke]

Something tells me there's an extra 0 there

[clever egret]

nope there isnt

[flat spoke]

Like, ordinary real world full plate armor weighs somewhere around 60lbs. So for Super Armor, doubling that to 120, 140, makes sense

[fervent reef]

Argent confirmed it's not a typo, it's just that heavy

[flat spoke]

Well it is to me, now

I'm gaslighting the game

[midnight bramble]

Ryshadium has a special exception rule just for it, it's crazy

[fervent reef]

Do we have any new information on bindspren?

[midnight bramble]

Nothing we hadnt gotten from previews and the spren cards.
Stoneward Plate and mediationform.

[fervent reef]

Cool, thanks

Still curious how exactly one goes about attracting them lmao

[tight pier]

I'm sure everyone is normal about this midnight essence

[flat spoke]

I've never been normal, so

[clever egret]

there is gonna be so much ill advised romancing in campaigns....

[slow crown]

I am loving these rulebooks. The artwork is so gorgeous and these books explain so much in incredible detail. And as a huge fan of the Stormlight Archive, these books do feel rewarding. You don’t need to read all 5 books to get into this game, but they definitely help. 😁

[jaunty pelican]

😂 my signature move with my ShardPlate is going to be “Here catch” and throw an unpowered gauntlet at them.

[slow crown]

This looks amazing!

[violet lark]

the art is all so good

[slow crown]

Agreed. Katie Payne is amazing. She went all out for the artwork!

[clever egret]

omg its like a rocket glove. thrust ur fist forward and detach it as it thrusts and it keeps flying and hits them like a bowling ball

[jaunty pelican]

Yes!! But also just like, dropping it on someone’s foot when their trying to intimidate the party 🤣

[wild violet]

I gotta be honest

Reading the Dustbringer stuff in this book only cements the Spiderman analogy for the order

And I love it

It saddens me that they mainly recruit Tinkerers and scientists because I feel like those that would benefit most are leaders like Ral-na and co.

[slow crown]

I agree, that makes sense.

[wild violet]

Yay!

Also good news is that my group are just as obsessed with this game as me

[cedar temple]

I'm genuinely looooving these books

i may eventually need to run a campaign myself

[wild violet]

You should!

As an experienced gm the pre written adventures look really good to run

At least in comparison to 5e books I have run

[cedar temple]

i have to find cosmere friends to make a campaign with... but i also don't wanna run a prewritten adventure bc while i may be a noob DM, I am not lacking in one thing: grit, spite and creativity

that's three things

oh well

[knotty wren]

well, that's why we have the LFG post!

[cedar temple]

true

it is very very cool

i would have to probably buy the actual source books to play on something like roll 20

because it would make stuff soooo convenient..

[foggy stag]

Is the list of Lesser Spren in the World Guide exhaustive? Like that's it and there's no more?

[prime kayak]

no

There are so many more

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Spren

Some spoilers

[wanton void]

The first step for any GM with doubts, Matt Colville

[foggy stag]

Thank you!

[cedar temple]

matt colville?

[wanton void]

YouTube person

[cedar temple]

ahh

[foggy stag]

Oh I now see it says "Common types of emotion spren include the following"

[fiery sigil]

Ah now I can use my cosmere theory crafting and use it to create a campaign and trick my friends into reading cosmere books

[slow crown]

I live in NYC, and I hope to find a group that wants to play.

[tight pier]

who ever wrote this passage was using all of their power to not use the phrase "with great power..."

[clever egret]

when youre an author for a book like this, you have a significant amount of power in what you can do, and thus that power is accompanied by an equally sized level of responsibility in how that power is exercised

[cedar temple]

i already tricked one of my friends into reading the cosmere books so we can play this

i also said, and this is technically stormlight all spoilers:

||there's a sword who gets therapy and becomes a better person. seemed to work to convince em ||

[foggy stag]

I don't think I have enough friends that would be interested and committed to play the RPG. But I'm also not sure I want to try to run a game for randoms

[prime kayak]

It's kinda a gamble

Play by post with rando is easier

Worked for me

[clever egret]

id suggest joining a local ttrpg group and playing as a player with them and getting a feel for it/confident with them, and then propose running the game for them

[flat spoke]

ngl I thought you were gonna end at "propose"

[foggy stag]

Nah I don't really have interest in playing a game with randos right now, I'd rather run a game.

And with my remote location, there isn't really a local group

[red walrus]

I know y'all mentioned that there are only 2 mentions of Voidbinding in the book that tells us nothing.

But have anyone checked anything under the "Singer- Clothing/Glyphs"? Because maybe there would be something there without mentioning Voidbinding

[midnight bramble]

I don't see that as a section?

[kind wadi]

Where is the appropriate place to discuss the lore implications of some stuff in these books?

[midnight bramble]

You can talk about stuff from the Handbook and World Guide here, everything from Stonewalkers goes in #1391792347020267643

[solid breach]

WAT|| I thought he living at his farm retired||

[red walrus]

Yeah I was saying because I don't have the guide so I can only speculate

[hollow sphinx]

no, he left to go provide guidance to the Shin and seek the dissenters (or found his own if he can't find them)

but he doesn't want to be involved in war anymore, from the sound of it

[vital bolt]

A PC did that once in a game I was running.

He died.

[raven ridge]

Am I right in saying that there's no mechanical reason to choose Human as an ancestry? Singer gets everything they do, and more?

Obviously there are significant story implications of being a Singer in a human society, but mechanically it's all advantages?

[solid breach]

basically yeah

[clever egret]

i dont think it does have purely mechanical advantages? youd face a significant amount of difficulty in human environments

[solid breach]

only if that is something the players says they are okay

some people might just want the mechanical bonus without dealing with the specieism

[umbral heath]

You can do that, but you'd be missing out on a big part of the experience of a Role Playing Game.

[clever egret]

yeah id consider those difficulties to be a pretty essential balancing part of the challenge of being a singer

[raven ridge]

Yes, I'm absolutely aware of the story implications, I'm just talking about the stated mechanics.

[solid breach]

yeah like

a singer might be 1 talent behind a human

but they also have +1 willpower and immunity to exhaustion and can disguise yourself

with workform

[solid breach]

decayform is also silly

[wild violet]

Its very funny in combats where you're facing knights and fused

[vital bolt]

They get more options, but only one extra Talent for free as far as I remember - which means mechnically they are going to be spread thinner, or have more singer stuff at the expense of all their other Paths.

Same as, say, an enlightened Truthwatcher gets another 4 Talents (+another 1 for free), but that means that's four other Talents they're not taking elsewhere compared to a standard Truthwatcher.

[raven ridge]

Yes, the main limiting factor on characters is the number of talents they have.

[red walrus]

Yes but that still provides more option. And more options mean that they can do 99% truthwatcher and 1% enlightened if they want.

Something that standard truthwatcher can't do.

Not that I am saying that in itself is anything bad

[vital bolt]

"They get more options"

Literally my opening words. :P

The "drawback" of being 99% Truthwatcher is that you're not 100% Truthwatcher. That is a mechanical difference, whether you consider it good or bad is neither here nor there really.

The mechanical drawback of choosing to have more choice is that, presumably, you will actually choose some of those extra options and therefore be weaker in the non-extra areas.
-# If you're not going to choose those options then you're going with it for a narrative reason, which has no bearing on the original question asked.

[solid breach]

i am sad they didnt make that a regal adverarsy

😔

so theoretically
What can a dustbringer do with diviion a skybreaker cant

like instead of skating acros the ground disintegrating stuff, couldnt a skybreaker just fly low and create dust the same way?

[wild violet]

Dustbringers and Skybreakers do very similar things, but Dustbringers focus more(as an order) in creating fire, being more destructive and overall using it for different things

Mechanically I think that there isn't anything different that I can recall

[solid breach]

well no i am more thinking lorewise
like unlike the difference between the flying orders

both the division orders woud be capable of high speed movement and destruction

[opaque lava]

hey yall, I am just starting to look over the PDFs and on first skim Im not seeing much info about what Roshar looks like post W+T? Does anyone know if there is much of that in the books?

[wild violet]

No, it is written with Rhythm of war in mind

[thick crystal]

There. Is not anything really

[vital bolt]

The World Guild only goes up to the end of Wind and Truth at most.

[opaque lava]

got it. TY all!

[wild violet]

It doesn't even tell you that Navani is a bondsmith even though it says there are two bondsmiths!

[opaque lava]

I guess there is still too much we dont know to run a game post W+T without having to make up a lot lol

[wild violet]

It mentions dalinar

[wild violet]

I think it's because they want to save stuff for future expansions and for the second half

[solid breach]

DALINAR IS A BONDSMITH?!

[opaque lava]

makes sense. Don't want to spoil stuff I get it.

[wild violet]

Not anymore!!!!!

[opaque lava]

Super cool shoutout! Not sure if its been posted.

[wild violet]

This feels like a spoiler for book 5 somehow

What with the styling of the sword and everything else

In surge

[clever egret]

the worldguide absolutely spoils book 5. page 121 of the worldguide literally spells out the finale of book 5, retribution, kaladin herald and all. i didnt expect them to be so detailed

[tidal knot]

Whaaaaat no. I'm pretty sure the stoneward honourbearer had dark hair

[tight pier]

There are multiple warnings for the history section containing spoilers

[clever egret]

i know, id still consider it containing that info to be spoiling it? like for me atleast, i absolutely scrolled past warnings cuz i was loving the art, and then i started reading the text and i was like "WHAT! they talk about that?" and then i messaged my player id given the worldbook to that hasnt read book 5 yet to watch out

[vital bolt]

I mean, if you don't read the warnings...

[clever egret]

ya so my surprise wasnt at the lack of warnings, but that it contained such explicit book 5 detail

[tight pier]

As far as I understood, the purpose of this book was to allow you to run a campaign at any point in Roshars history between the Dawnsingers and the end of WaT

[clever egret]

i hadnt been keeping super up to date with details about the book, id just assumed theyd stop at info before the final 10 days, or atleast before the sanderlanche finale

[vital bolt]

Given it was always going to come out after Wind and Truth, it makes sense that it would be "up-to-date" with the chronology, rather than waiting for some unknown future Stormlight expansion to add in those ten days of the timeline.

[tight pier]

Yeah, I would expect any expansions they do for Roshar will be focused on fleshing more stuff out rather than extending the timeline

[clever egret]

i remember getting spoiled on szeths rebellion backstory by seeing a preview page of the worldbook so i suppose i shouldnt have expected that to be an outlier got very lucky they didnt accidentally show page 121 before wat came out lmao

[fervent reef]

Ehh, what's ten days out of seven thousand years. I'm sure nothing too important changed

[tight pier]

Like an expansion about Alethkar before the True Desolation or something

Or stuff from previous Desolations

[clever egret]

with how restricted to the bounds of canon theyve been so far, i wonder how theyre gonna do expansions. will it always be in close communication with dragonsteel/brandon specifically to keep it canon? i guess if brandon gave them the outline to sa6 or beta versions, the rpg people could start working on an expansion thats canon to info there and release it not long after the book comes out

[vital bolt]

I think we'll get other worlds first.

[clever egret]

ya thats probably a good strategy, so they keep releasing new stuff of old canon content and in the meantime brandon makes new canon content that they can release new stuff of when they get around to it

[vital bolt]

Well, for instance we're getting Scadrial next year and then we'll see what the year after brings, so on.

[weary sky]

I'm sure we'll have inklings of SA6 out by the time the RPGs plans of Mistborn then Worldhoppers/Elantris books are out if I'm mathing this out right

[tight pier]

Why the rush to do backhalf stuff? The history of Roshar and even modern Roshar still has a lot of room for fleshing out

[weary sky]

IIRC they plan a yearly cadence of major RPG book releases

[tight pier]

You could probably do a whole expansion centered on RoW era Urithiru

[clever egret]

no i dont mean backhalf, i mean can they do rosharan history that hasnt been made canon yet?

like with herald pov's in the backhalf, we could theoretically get a flashback to any point in rosharan history, and so any point in rosharan history is susceptible to changing canon

if theyre absolutely beholden to brandons canon, then theyd need confirmation that hes not gonna do something different or he needs to canonise it right then, and he might not be ready

[slow crown]

This game confirms that the God Beyond exists and it’s canon! Just when I thought 2025 would be a slower year for the Cosmere, we get two major releases in July that just blow my mind! I’m shocked. 😁

[clever egret]

huh yeah i hadnt seen that

[tight pier]

They had a whole lot of new stuff for some current Rosharan which to me should be harder to do than to do stuff from the past

[slow crown]

Isn’t that statement owned by Marvel at this point? 😂

[tight pier]

If you do an expansion set in the past, just stop using the god voice to describe things

[slow crown]

I’m still reading, and I just saw that! Like wow. 😮

[clever egret]

ya and we know brandon helped a lot, so going back to my earlier thing, i was wondering if theyd always require this consistent communication with brandon or was that primarily to get this off the ground and launch stonewalkers, and then theyre mostly gonna be on their own now?

[tight pier]

again, they should stop using the god voice

[clever egret]

is that what theyve said theyre gonna do?

[tight pier]

they haven't said one way or another afaik

like, if they have an expansion set during the Silver Kingdoms then they can frame the book as an Elsecaller writing a history of that time which gives Brandon room to retcon stuff as needed

[clever egret]

oh yeah id love stuff like that, i think itd be perfect for them to do that. but from what we have so far, i havent gotten the impression theyre gonna go that direction and instead seem very tied to god voice and strict canon. ill def keep an eye out for if theyre getting creative like that cuz id absolutely love it

[vital bolt]

To formalise something I alluded to earlier, I would not be in favour of a canon RPG adding in content that isn't canon - regardless of whether that's because it's made up or just "some opinions" from characters in world.

[slow crown]

I hope we’ll learn more about the God Beyond in the Cosmere someday. 😁

[tight pier]

in the hypothetical expansion that is framed as a history book, the canon part is that "someone wrote a history book of the silver kingdoms that says this"

[slow crown]

I also hope we’ll get to play as Bondsmiths down the line as well in the Cosmere RPG. Like new DLC for character sheets and classes for new releases.

[vital bolt]

Yes. I am aware of that. I am saying that I would not like that.

[clever egret]

yeah they didnt include bondsmiths yet cuz theyd be too powerful, but once we get to wider cosmere scope, suddenly theyre not so overpowered...

[weary sky]

idk, i feel like regardless, they'd be pretty damn powerful

Opening a perp for free Light is crazy for logistics

[clever egret]

absolutely, but you can get very powerful in other magic systems and combination magic systems too

its not that bondsmiths would be nerfed, its that other possibilities would now be on their level

[tight pier]

Bondsmiths and 5th level radiants would, I presume, come with a historical expansion since that's when they would have been active and (in the bondsmith case) available for player characters

[weary sky]

Basically a walking nuclear reactor?

[slow crown]

Really? That was their reason. Well we might get some Bondsmith stuff down the road. These definitely won’t be the last books for the Stormlight RPG.

[slow crown]

That’s what I was thinking.

[weary sky]

IIRC the devs mentioned they aren't putting in Fullborn

[slow crown]

What was your reaction to this revelation? I wasn’t expecting it at all. 😁

[clever egret]

yeah they straight up say itd unbalance gameplay so you cant play em

[tight pier]

and somewhere else they clarify that having tension and adhesion from being a squire specifically does not give you bondsmith powers

you can just use the tension and adhesion skill trees

[clever egret]

kinda freaked out? i hadnt expected god beyond to get that level of acknowledgement. im still hesistant for if thats actually what brandon wants so ill probs wait for double confirmation from a book, but right now that does seem to imply that it is an existing force

[vital bolt]

I don't think it says anything more than "Many people worship them". It doesn't confirm they exist.

[tight pier]

on that note, this book was definitely more fuel for the "yeah the Beyond exists, Brandon just won't talk about it"

[clever egret]

"the God Beyond is a force that transcends these planar deities." like is this just what people in world believe or is this god voice, there is a force thats beyond?

[tight pier]

yeah I think this and the Beyond thing would have been fixed if they didn't to such strong god voice but it's also a sort of complicated thing to explain to new people

[slow crown]

The God Beyond was mentioned 6 times from different characters on Scadrial, Roshar and Sel. So I think he or she probably exists. But the game itself confirming it, makes me think that Brandon is going to explore the God Beyond in a future book. But that could be decades from now. 😂

[tight pier]

the way I imagine they want you to read it is "[the deity that is worshiped] is a force that transcends these planar deities"

[undone hull]

I'm firmly in the camp that The God Beyond represents Brandon's actual faith but he doesn't want to put that in his books lest he alienate too many people

[slow crown]

I think it says many people worship this one God. And I think Brandon will explain to someday. But if Brandon explores the God Beyond and the world it inhabits, I wonder if Vin and Elend could make a cameo appearance someday. 😁

[clever egret]

the phrasing on dalinar "intuiting" a presence greater than almighty is sus too. why not just say he belives in a presence greater than the almighty? intuiting implies hes locked onto the something more tangible

Rosharans have no formal knowledge of the God
Beyond, but some—such as Dalinar—have intuited
the presence of an “Almighty” greater than Honor.

[slow crown]

It means that Dalinar can feel it too. Wayne mentions it a few times as well.

[tight pier]

it's just Brandon's way of making characters religious in the way that irl people are religious. Belief in a given shard is not really about faith in the same way that irl belief in a god is. The Shards inarguably exist(ed) and what belief there is would instead be that "the shard will help if I ask"
Belief in the God Beyond is a belief in a thing that cannot be proven

[clever egret]

i thought that too

[vital bolt]

I would put money on none of that happening.

[slow crown]

I’ll take that bet. 😁

[tight pier]

I disagree that this is what it implies, but that's largely because I have read the books and know that his belief in the God Beyond is based on no evidence and just vibes

[slow crown]

That could be it. But in the future era, I think the God Beyond is going to be mentioned again.

[tight pier]

if I were a Worldbook only reader I would interpret this passage as tacit admission that the GB exists

[slow crown]

That’s how I read it as well in that book.

[clever egret]

i know i have read the books and i know that too, which was why im so surprised by how blunt the wording is here

[tight pier]

well yeah it will be mentioned because people will be religious about it

that's not proof it exists

[vital bolt]

They're going to be mentioned a lot, but that doesn't confirm anything.

[clever egret]

like surely they could have worded it more vaguely or emphasised its something characters believe. but they chose this wording instead

[vital bolt]

That is what it says?

[tight pier]

and I would not read much into the wording they chose

[slow crown]

I think Brandon put it in the Worldbook because he wanted to reiterate that it’s a canonical God that exists.

[slow crown]

I think The God Beyond will be mentioned and shown in the future era at some point. I guess I’ll have to wait and see.

[vital bolt]

The Beyond is never going to be part of the books. It's the one thing he's been weirdly and firmly consistent about.

[clever egret]

they say dalinar intuited a presence, not that he independently came to the belief of a greater presence. it communicates something pre-existing that dalinar began believing in

[undone hull]

This makes me more sure to be honest. Brandon has been very firm in his books that faith isn't something one can logic their way into. It has to be hype moments and aura.

[slow crown]

That could be it, but I think Brandon wouldn’t mention something like this, if it wasn’t setting up for something major down the road.

[slow crown]

Darn. 😢

[vital bolt]

He, a man that grew up in a hierarchy of power, intuits a hierarchy of gods because the current ones are rubbish. It doesn't imply anyone actually occupies that hierarchy.

[clever egret]

for me personally im not gonna ride on this wording here as absolute canon, but i will keep my eye out for future god beyond references in canon books to see if it aligns to what this worldbook says or what hes previously said

[fervent reef]

I think that like, the god beyond either exists or doesn't, and it either interacts/ed with the cosmere or it didn't. And if it does exist and does/did interact, I would expect to see some ... ripples (call it proof or evidence if you will) in the cosmere. And if it didn't, I would expect to not see those things in the cosmere.

[slow crown]

Maybe the God Beyond is Adonalsium’s father? 😮

[undone hull]

I don't expect we will ever get a concrete answer as to where Adonalsium came from. It's one of those things Brandon is going to hold back from for the sake of his atheist readers, but he himself believes The God Beyond created Big A

[vital bolt]

I absolutely don't think he's doing it for that reason. Us atheists read other fantasy series with gods without issue...

[slow crown]

I think the Worldguide confirms that The God Beyond possibly exists and is somehow connected to Adonalsium. Maybe we’ll get a book or chapters from Adonalsium’s pov. I’d love that.

[hollow sphinx]

Note that Dalinar's stance is just that this is Adonalsium

[pastel bison]

ngl, I read it as more confirming that the concept of the God Beyond exists, even more than specifically the God Beyond

[clever egret]

heres the original text

Most, if not all, planets in the cosmere have entities
in their mythology and powers whom they worship
as deities. However, the God Beyond (also known as
the Unknown God) is a force that transcends these
planar deities. Little is known about the God Beyond—
including whether it’s related to Adonalsium or to the
Beyond, the place where souls are drawn after they die.
Rosharans have no formal knowledge of the God
Beyond, but some—such as Dalinar—have intuited
the presence of an “Almighty” greater than Honor.
and heres where i think it could have been communicated more vaguely while still conveying the essential info
Most, if not all, planets in the cosmere have entities
in their mythology and powers whom they worship
as deities. However, the God Beyond (also known as
the Unknown God) is a concept of a deity that transcends these
planar deities. Little is known about the God Beyond—
including whether it’s related to Adonalsium or to the
Beyond, the place where souls are drawn after they die,
or if it exists at all.
Rosharans have no formal knowledge of the God
Beyond, but some—such as Dalinar—have come to believe in
the presence of an “Almighty” that would be greater than Honor.

[undone hull]

I agree that it's strange. I think the way he's handling this is a little odd but the stuff he's said about not wanting to confirm an afterlife because it would make Jasnah seem silly makes me believe this.

[slow crown]

I agree. I’m an Atheist and I BADLY want Brandon Sanderson to do this. But it won’t happen until the 2050’s, maybe? I’ll be in my 60’s by then.

[fervent reef]

Yeah, just cause I believe I live in a godless universe, doesn't make me want to avoid books set in a universe with god(s)

[vital bolt]

I write fantasy with gods...

[clever egret]

i loooooooooove gods in fantasy

[slow crown]

I read it as more confirmation that the God Beyond does exist, but nobody knows what it is.

[undone hull]

I'm also an atheist and I think fantasy gods are awesome. Often my favourite parts of a setting

[slow crown]

Same here. I usually don’t read fantasy to see a reflection of my real life. Unless it’s very well written.

[clever egret]

thats how id want to read it, as you can see i put that in my correction. but as it stands it explicitly says its a "force" which is like, wild to use that phrasing

[pastel bison]

I'm of the mind that the Cosmere is an impossible universe for such a discussion
because enough people believing a God Beyond exists would make it real, so...

[clever egret]

fourth dawnshard is God Beyond? 😱

[fervent reef]

Sure

That'd be hilarious

Like actually, please do that

[vital bolt]

I am entirely happy for character's beliefs to be proved wrong. If I know there's an afterlife and therefore Jasnah is wrong, but she can't know it because there's no way IC to find out, I don't assume she's more silly...

[hollow sphinx]

I agree this section is written in a fairly concrete way, but I don't think this lines up with Brandon's continual statements on the matter for the past decade and a half and it citing Dalinar doesn't really mean much given Dalinar's opinion on there being a god greater than Honor is "Adonalsium exists", so I am leery of assuming that there was a deliberate plan to confirm this huge major thing in a short section in an RPG guidebook

[undone hull]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just reflecting on what Brandon's said about the topic.

[vital bolt]

Yeah. I am disagreeing with him. :)

[slow crown]

Probably. I’d love to see more on Adonalsium’s history and if he was created by the God Beyond. Because the World guide questions where the God Beyond is related to Adonalsium, or is apart of the Beyond that Brandon says he’ll never explore.

[pastel bison]

like, at this point, the God Beyond would already have a stronger impact on the realms than the Blackthorn; and that latter was able to be brought forth and get made into a thing

[clever egret]

im an atheist irl but i do actually believe there is a beyond afterlife in the cosmere but i absoluuuuutely do not want that confirmed or explored in canon. im very content with the possibility it could exist and satisfied with that. i dont want any confirmation or exploration of its existence, thatd make me upset

[hollow sphinx]

I mean, I don't think Realmatics can create an extra-Realmatic entity, idk

[clever egret]

ive got a solid realmatic theory understanding that doesnt require the Beyond at all

[pastel bison]

it doesn't matter though

[slow crown]

Doesn’t Jasnah know the spiritual realm exists? And even though Jasnah is an Atheist, she is fine with gods and higher powers existing. She just thinks there is a scientific explanation to why they exist.

[fervent reef]

Jasnah and Dalinar can't both be right, here. By definition one of them is wrong. Now at this point I'd argue that even if the GB exists, Jasnah is still correct to make the decision she has based on the evidence she has

[pastel bison]

the extra-realmic parts can never be confirmed, and any realmic interference gets attributed to them and only strengthens their presence, and the belief that they should break the rules only builds it into their character, so...

[undone hull]

She doesn't believe the shards or Adonalsium to be Gods, just very powerful entities. And the spiritual realm is just another part of reality, not the afterlife.

[vital bolt]

(We might have strayed out of RPG talk.)

[fervent reef]

It's an afterlife

[pastel bison]

you could literally just manifest the God Beyond as a literal physics mechanic, just because enough people think the world works that way

[slow crown]

Exactly! But that’s what it would be if an afterlife was proven to exist. It’s just another reality like a parallel universe, or having multiple dimensions in space and time.

[undone hull]

What do you mean?

[slow crown]

Is that also a mechanic in the Cosmere itself? If enough characters believe something exists, it just ends up existing?

[fervent reef]

It seems that people's souls can stick around there for a while (like Tien)

[fervent reef]

A spren of it might exist given the right circumstances

[vital bolt]

I would say no.

[slow crown]

And Kelsier refused to die after dying. 😁

[pastel bison]

it's why spren happen
it's literally how Autonomy made an avatar on Scadrial

[fervent reef]

Let's go to #full-brandon-spoilers

[slow crown]

True, but I thought those entities existed in the physical realm without the mental influence of people’s beliefs?

[undone hull]

It's been a while, was that confirmed to actually be Tien's soul? Or just a recreation of Tien in the spiritual realm like all the visions we saw in WaT?

[pastel bison]

[pastel bison]

yes

[vital bolt]

Nothing is confirmed, that's why we're arguing about it. :P

-# Not that being "confirmed" stops us, either...

[undone hull]

Zamn, nvm then

[hollow sphinx]

This should move to #full-brandon-spoilers, yes

[pastel bison]

going to either #cosmere-mechanics or #full-brandon-spoilers, whichever works for you

[vital bolt]

-# I already moved, a few minutes ago...

[slow crown]

Emberdark is great for me. 😁

[clever egret]

i responded to you in #full-brandon-spoilers but i couldnt @ you there (i think you dont have access?) so ill put the response here, but i wont continue the convo here: it was left vague enough that it could be a spiritual echo which fits into realmatic theory, it could be something weirdly unique and not yet understood like nohadon, or it could be a possibility of Beyond and Afterlife Real which could be a good explanation for readers who arent gonna be mega super nerds about realmatic theory and theorycrafting

[vital bolt]

The covnersation split across both #cosmere-mechanics and #full-brandon-spoilers in the end...

[undone hull]

Ty, only just unlocked the channel for myself, moving over there now

[solid breach]

Dawnsingers ?

[solid breach]

What channel is that ?

[tight pier]

like you could run a campaign on Roshar before or during the human exodus

full-brandon-spoilers

[clever egret]

click this and pick up the role for it

[solid breach]

Gotcha

[astral belfry]

My friend and I were looking at the conversion chart for the currency and promptly decided to wait for someone to create a conversion calculator. 😂

Ironically we found a spheres to US dollars but not a calculator for the currency itself (between chips, marks, gems, etc.).

[fervent reef]

Name for the singers pre desolations

[delicate moth]

(I think it would be best not to direct people to the full spoilers channel, or to move conversations there, because of its nature)

[clever egret]

it didnt end up moving there anyway, it went to the other (almost) full spoilers channel

[delicate moth]

On principle 🙂

[slow crown]

This whole debate has kinda inspired me to try out a Homebrew Cosmere One Shot involving the God Beyond who brings back Vin and Elend for one more mission in Era 2. It might end up in a major battle, or just Vin and Elend helping Max and Wayne with a Heist mission. 😁

But for that to work, I would need the Mistborn rulebooks a year from now.

[midnight bramble]

Dalinar also considers that what he's feeling could be Adonalsium. So the description there is...off in tone for how the idea has been treated in book and in WoB.

[clever egret]

ya its like genuinely startling to me the way they describe it in the worldbook

[violet lark]

I feel like there are a lot of fun options for homebrew campaigns with the cosnere rpg I feel like the time after the last desolation and before the recreance could be a lot of fun to play with

[slow crown]

Yeah. Like I don’t need to hope or pray that Brandon will bring back Vin to help out Kaladin and Dalinar on Roshar, with her Mistborn abilities. I can just do it myself! 😂

[slow crown]

We could potentially do planetary conflicts between Roshar, Scadrial and Sel in a sci-fi future era as well. But we still have wait for the Mistborn rulebooks and the eventual Elantris rulebooks.

[tidal knot]

As much as I love the new city of shadows lore, is anyone else disappointed we didn't get anything from the city of lightning?

Or new natanan

I know it's because brando originally planned book 4 to take place in ral elorim, but still just a tiiiiny bit disappointed there

[pastel bison]

I thought initially we'd get a whole bunch of different city lore

turns out it's very few cities that we actually got

but what we did get is

[tight pier]

Rall Ellorim lore was all really cool, liked the pay off for why it's called the City of Shadows

still not really sure what shadowform is but it's evocative

Stormlight needs more horror

there were also some other location related lore drops that are quite interesting to me in terms of possible hints at SA6

[delicate moth]

How much of this is in the WG?

[pastel bison]

I think quite a bit

not the shadowform stuff, I don't think

but the city lore is there to a significant degree

[tight pier]

Shadowform is in the WG

[pastel bison]

in detail?

[pastel bison]

there's a small theory I have on this

[tight pier]

this is what I was talking about

[pastel bison]

ahh, yeap

[tight pier]

and City of Shadows refers to there being spooky cognitive shadows trapped in it

[pastel bison]

well

it's built in a cave

with only directional lighting

[midnight bramble]

There's a weird line in the WG that implies BAM invented Regals, and I think it along with the prior God Beyond conversation really highlights something that's felt weird to me about the rpg books.
It talks about some things the way a fan that's making an assumption or forgot a detail would...but with a strong authoritative voice.

[prisma wharf]

Hmm, a bit disappointed that they don't give more info on unmade we haven't learned about. would've been useful for gming campaings

(or is there more in later chapters? Currently reading through chapter 3)

[midnight bramble]

I can understand why, cause Brandon himself probably hasnt fleshed them out yet, but it does feel :/ at the lack of info in places

[clever egret]

yeah its made me pre-emptively sad for players who are wanting to explore this lore in game and not spoil themselves beforehand, but are either gonna get stonewalled by their gm cuz the gm wasnt provided the lore, or the gm just tells them made up stuff and they later find out thats not canon

[fervent reef]

The problem is that they are the authority

While Sanderson is working on Ghostbloods and Elantris 2&3

[midnight bramble]

That's what i mean by "with a strong authoritative voice"

[clever egret]

During the False Desolation, when Odium
and the Fused were imprisoned, Ba-Ado-Mishram
offered the singers a new type of power—Regal
forms—and forged a supernatural Connection between
all singers and herself.

[delicate moth]

That... doesn't necessarily say what you claim it says

[midnight bramble]

Well that's not the line i was referring to :p
though it does call Regal forms new

[fervent reef]

Holy hell "new type of power -- Regal Forms"

[clever egret]

While the Fused were
imprisoned on Braize and Odium was unable to inter-
vene directly on Roshar, Mishram took com mand of
Odium’s forces. She created new Regal forms, empow-
ered them with Voidlight, and wielded Investiture on a
scale that shocked the Knights Radiant

[delicate moth]

Right, this is pretty clearly about new Regal forms

as opposed to the forms that already existed (and just hadn't been seen in a couple thousand years)

[fervent reef]

Phew

[clever egret]

Mishram’s most audacious move was to claim
much of Odium’s power for herself and, in so doing,
to tie herself to every singer and spren on Roshar.
With this power, she created Regal forms that allowed
singers great power without sacrificing their minds
to the Fused.

[midnight bramble]

The previous one castle shared calls Regal forms a new type of power

[clever egret]

this one implies the only previous option singers had was to sacrifice their mind to the fused

[midnight bramble]

This is what i mean by the weirdness of it.

[clever egret]

the easiest way to find out what it tries to communicate is to show it to a newbie and then ask them what they think about regal forms and where they originated

as in like the whole worldbook

which might take a while

[fervent reef]

Ehh, we're the 17th shard, we're nothing if not committed

[delicate moth]

You can also read "offered the singers a new type of power—Regal forms" as "new relative to the kinds of powers they had access to in that time, which was none"

like, the Everstorm is a new type of storm, but also not really

these books are not going to be all lawyer-proof - hell, the published novels are not, - we can interpret things

[midnight bramble]

It's just like the God Beyond thing, where the WG talks as if the GB is a definite force that exists
And that's just...not how it's been posited

[tight pier]

I think that there are a few readings of the GB section but the section certainly would have benefited from not being in godvoice

[clever egret]

with our advanced understanding we can more gracefully interpret this stuff cuz usually we can remember the actual source material this stuff is referencing. but if a new players use this as a reliable source foremost and consistently get wrong ideas, that will probably lead to friction

[delicate moth]

Does it matter if a new player thinks the God Beyond is real, or that Mishram invented Regal forms 2,000 years ago?

[wooden narwhal]

It is written in Khriss's voice sort of isn't it? I think some of it comes off more in that semi-neutral scholar voice where some things are maybe slightly more infected with opinion than are presented.

[clever egret]

in isolation, no, but if they go on to read the books or discuss with people familiar with the books, theyll come into that with fundamentally different ideas and theyll either have to argue why theyre right or accept that theyre wrong or some other non-dichotomous option

[delicate moth]

So, exactly like what we do when we read the books

[clever egret]

we all get the same words in the books, and new books supercede old ones. does this world guide now supercede old books?

[tight pier]

stuff like this contains clearly out of world information but is at the same "level" as the lore

[midnight bramble]

The World Guide shouldnt be requiring outside context to convey accurate information.
Kinda beats the point of a World Guide.

[tight pier]

I think it's ultimately not a big deal

[prisma wharf]

I mean, it may also be confirmation of the GB. And is there evidence of regals, not just fused, in the normal desolations? I can't remember

[clever egret]

its not a massive problem by itself, but its something that could lead to problems that imo are pretty avoidable with slightly diferent wording

[midnight bramble]

Ulim talks about it at minimum

[tight pier]

I think that the World Guide successfully introduces readers to the World of Roshar with no significant problems

[prisma wharf]

Alright, gotcha

[thick crystal]

No, novels would generally supersede rpg books

[prime kayak]

Luckily, my entire group has read stormlight

[delicate moth]

Bring it up with Karen, I guess, she approved everything

I think it's unreasonable to expect that every word in these books will be ironclad, ambiguity-free, especially since the words Brandon writes are not that

All of this is already way ahead any other world bible for a world of similar scope that I have seen

Maybe there are some Star Wars or Marvel world bibles that are tighter - maybe - but those also have way more resources

[clever egret]

im not all that fussed about needing it to be the highest standard, but i do think this will cause small frictions inevitably and i think thats okay to acknowledge. like its not a big deal but i dont always talk about big deals

[midnight bramble]

I said it's weird and criticized the book on the merits of what the book is supposed to be
Im not sitting here calling the damn thing trash

[clever egret]

hmm, i might have missed it but i dont think theres any mention of regals prior to the false desolation. see now im actually questioning what i know like there was regals before BAM right?

[midnight bramble]

Ulim says there was

[weary sky]

Ulim being so trustworthy though...

[midnight bramble]

Nothing about his explanation would work as a manipulation

Also comes up in some of Dalinar’s visions

[dawn isle]

I've got the STLs for the Stormlight minis and I'm literally playing Tetris to get as many on the build plate as I can at a time xD

[pastel bison]

Nightform predicting what will be,
The form of shadows, mind to forsee.
As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered.
A new storm will come, someday to break.
A new storm a new world to make.
A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens.

[tight pier]

I'm not sure what this proves

do we have any date/time period for when the songs of remembering were created?

[tidal knot]

Yeah as someone who's more of a reader than a player it's a little annoying. Still a good book though with GORGEOUS art

[clever egret]

the songs contain information about the fused i believe, which havent been on roshar since aharietiam. so... theres been a least some form of record keeping (be that oral or physical) since that time, and then especially during the false desolation i think the song culture was prioritised to preserve knowledge during the mass dullforming of the last legion, since they didnt take any physical records

supposedly they have lore about the shattering of the plains too

the last legion seemingly had a good relationship with bam up until the leaving, so she could have just told them a bunch about their history and that was a major source of their info

[flat spoke]

"Our gods did not shatter these plains" or something to that effect

[pastel bison]

plus, I think they always will have the option to cover the stuff they didn't cover here later, if they have some room or just... want to

[clever egret]

They blame our people
For the loss of that land
The city that once covered it
Did range the eastern strand.
The power made known in the tomes of our clan
Our gods were not who shattered these plains.
craaaaaaaazy that they hold this info. but.... could also be something BAM told them. if BAM didnt tell them tho.....

[pastel bison]

pointing to how the song which lists some regal forms specifically mentions a "when the gods did leave" part

implication being nightforms possibly foresaw the final desolation at Ahareitiam, giving us a potential placement of regals before the False Desolation

[wild violet]

Did they?

[tidal knot]

I dunno I just reread WAT I'm not going back there

[wild violet]

But it's so good!

[tidal knot]

It's good I'm just gonna need a break from the bleak tone

[warm mirage]

Anyone find any mention of Dawn's Shadow in the world guide or anything? I find it suspicious that we know essentially nothing about it despite it having been on the map since Way of Kings

[clever egret]

nope nothin

[mental canyon]

Finally getting a chance to look through my books. Time to erase everything from RoW onward and create the Knights of Odium campaign.

[clever egret]

omg i hadnt even considered doing an evil enlightened campaign

[mental canyon]

My players will have a choice. Embrace the purest light of Odium and unite Roshar, or you know... Do that Honour crap and lose. I'm fair.

[dark escarp]

The alt-text confirms that that is Rit-daughter-Clutio!

[clever egret]

im sure you will have a very light hand and they will be naturally inclined to odiums glory

[tidal knot]

Oh that's cool!

Clutio is a terrible name by the way. It rolls off the tongue with the elegance of a brick

I honestly like it because of how awful it feels in the mouth

[dark escarp]

||Taszo-son-Clutio|| is a bit clunky as I've been practicing Stonewalkers, yeah 😝

[tidal knot]

Oh wow that's masterful

[gilded maple]

This is where I'm at. Am I a little nonplussed at the pro-singer viewpoint of the early history? Yeah. Is it inaccurate? Not really.

[wraith peak]

I have a rules question for the RPG, would this be the right place for that or is there somewhere better?

[gilded maple]

Probably best on the RPG server, honestly

[wraith peak]

Oh cool I didn't know that was a thing, thanks!

[gilded maple]

I can DM you the link if you like

[fervent reef]

https://discord.gg/cosmererpg

[prime cloak]

I was looking at the artwork of Amaram and I just kept thinking he looked like an actor I know. Well, after some searching I think I figured it out: Daniel Dae Kim. The resemblance is uncanny

[delicate moth]

Definitely

[wooden narwhal]

Yeah I saw it yesterday and immediately that's where my mind went.

[midnight bramble]

He'd be a great Amaram, but also he doesn't deserve that xD

[pine storm]

I don't know know where else to put it but is kinda disappointment how little información we get about the Natan people even tho they're a playable culture everyone else at least gets half a page and they get two full sentences lol

Maybe I misses more in the world book but is very basic infor and the handbook also doesn't help much

If a player wants to play a natan character they know almost nothing about their own country lol

[wild violet]

It's because it's very limited and unknown culture, honestly it's sad because it's very underused

[clever egret]

i think the point was, the worldguide could have been an opportunity to make it not such a limited and unknown culture, but that didnt happen

[pine storm]

This

What's the point of playing a natan character if the second you get asked a question about idk your country politics you can't answer

[pastel bison]

I don't know what this was like for the Brotherwise team, but I suspect some of these are also tied very deeply into the narrative of the backhalf and so details are going to be sparse at the moment

[pine storm]

We more information about Alm a backwater country that nobody cares about lol

[pastel bison]

considering ||the original natan people are what created Stormseat over Odium's perp/fourth moon remnants and the ones that got destroyed by the breaking of the shattered plains||

[pine storm]

This also what I thought but that would mean the natans most be relevant in back 5

[clever egret]

ya its just kinda like, a bit unfair to advertise natan characters as playable characters if they knew they wouldnt be able to give a realistic amount of rpg background about those characters cuz they were sticking to limits from the books

[pine storm]

But a little more information wouldn't have spoiled too much

[pine storm]

This omg

[clever egret]

its like an unfortunately common thing where the rpg stuff gets caught in an uncomfortable middle between being a god voice source, and being beholden to drip-feeded canon of a world we are only halfway through

[pastel bison]

||it might also be that what is new natanatan will be folded very quickly into Venli's new listener nation, so it won't even really exist by itself in the back-half||

[clever egret]

its not great to know this worldbook will absolutely need a replacement edition and become obsolete after just a few more books come out for the back 5, and that we know there wont be a reliably complete worldbook until book 10 is out

[pastel bison]

or, I might be completely off base and it's just what it is

[clever egret]

or i guess they could just consistently supplement each little thing thats missing from here like a "natanatan expansion" but that could feel a bit meh

[red walrus]

I guess there is only this about the Voidbinding drawing huh

[clever egret]

yup. its surely something thatll be explored in the back 5. surely. itll be in book 10 for sure. maybe book 11. it will be

[clever egret]

looking at this way, i feel like thatd be a really cool idea for a campaign but i camt quite figure out how youd make it work...

like two players are the "main characters" (ie navani and dalinar) and the other players have to fill in as npcs instead of the GM playing the npcs

[wild violet]

I think its really interesting how the book not only drops the names of all the shards, but it says that Ruin and Preservation are only partially united

[clever egret]

rosharan bias, sazed isnt a bondsmith so its not a real unification

[wild violet]

Must be haha

I like how this confirms partially that around the time of book 5 Virtuousity is splintered

As that helps set a time for when certain events in the future have happened

Also Idk how I missed that Inventions name was Chan Ko Sar

How did I miss the best name ever

[frosty matrix]

Disappointed that Mercy, Whimsy, and Virtuosity are still unnamed 😔

[wild violet]

Same

[vital bolt]

He has to parcel these things out.

[wild violet]

It sort of makes me feel like they might be mentioned or used later for smthg as a surprise

Fair

[vital bolt]

If you think about it, he only has three Vessel names and three Dawnshards left to name across another 16+ books.

[pastel bison]

well we can always add some spice among the aethers

[clever egret]

i do find it funny that hes taken that approach when its like... not really necessary? like knowing the name euridius, while cool, doesnt actually reveal anything. its just the fact hes been soooo hesistant with this stuff that just the reveal itself suddenly feels so special. future fans are gonna think we were so weird for how hyped we got about vessel name reveals when they had no connecting context