Star Wars

[fresh stream]

maybe it's rabid and it wants to kill you, but that's not healthy

[dense lance]

the best way I've found to explain it is that the dark side is "one over all" and the light side is "all over one". neither is fully in balance because in the Force "all is one"

but one is way more out of balance than the other

but there's also the eye thing, which I see as the Force labeling dangerous force users to warn the general public

[wispy lichen]

New Jedi Order is where I get my view on the force so I’ll hold off on saying until our readalong gets there LOL

[upper tangle]

Someone posted a video of George's own definition of the two sides at some point in here...

Oh hey, it was Lupicorn xD

[silk solar]

the funny way to say this is that your personality is a spoiler for NJO

same with me and eva tbh

[wispy lichen]

I mean true but shhhhh

[silk solar]

reading njo would be like when you meet a friend's parents for the first time

and suddenly everything is clear

[wispy lichen]

Exactly

It’s suppose to be a surprise

[echo echo]

https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/2054303511748235428

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm)

‘AHSOKA’ Season 2 has been delayed to early 2027.

The first season released in Summer 2023.

X · May 12, 2026, 8:51 PM

Hell yeah

[silk solar]

Delay good?

[glad mason]

Ahsoka wasn’t 💀

[wispy vortex]

idk, I bet her skull is pretty humanoid

[glad mason]

I genuinely tried to give Ahsoka a chance because tcw was pretty fun but the acting in that show was really flat

[bright blade]

Bummer. I'd prefer to not have to wait so long for it.

[echo echo]

I'm being glib

Four years between seasons is frankly inexcusable

This isn't the UK

[silk solar]

Especially from what i understand s1 was mostly setup

I was interested in trying ashoka but was told it isnt anything close to being self contained

[wispy lichen]

It’s not

It’s set up and followup mostly

[echo echo]

The most charitable read of s1 of Ahsoka is that it is trying to be a bridge between Rebels and the rest of a standalone show

[silk solar]

This is why i have avoided it

[supple star]

I think it would have worked a lot better if it was just a Rebels revival like Clone Wars s7

Give it more episodes and an animation upgrade and I think a lot of it’s issues would be fixed.

[supple star]

I do think it is the worst of the live action shows on the front.

[silk solar]

from the outside i have a hard time figuring out who the intended audeince is

[supple star]

Yeah live action sequel series to two animated ones is kinda a hard sell.

[silk solar]

and then not have it be a conclusive story

its a bridge structurally

[supple star]

Which would not have been an issue if it was just Rebels s5.

[silk solar]

the choices for disney LA series have really confused me

except for obi wan i know why that was made

[supple star]

Obi Wan and Boba Fett were originally meant to be movies and it shows.

Skeleton Crew to but I think it works good as a limited series.

[silk solar]

oh yeah didnt a bunch of flims get converted post Solo and IX?

[supple star]

Only Mandalorian, Andor, Acolyte, and Ashoka were conceived of as shows

[silk solar]

so now i am doubly confused about ashoka

[supple star]

I don’t have any sources for this, but I do think it was originally meant to be Rebels s5, but was made its own thing after the success of the Mandalorian.

[silk solar]

interesting

also, are star wars fans excited for grogu?

what is the vibe there

bc that went the other was if i understand correctly

[wintry lark]

you mean the movie?

[supple star]

I am excited, even more so as I am rewatching Mando

I think it could be a top 5 Star Wars film. But that isn’t a really high bar.

[silk solar]

it is a steep drop off

[supple star]

I’ll be happy if it is Season 1 or 2 level, disappointed if it’s 3. But from what’s been shown I think I will be happy.

[autumn hemlock]

Honestly, Solo is firmly mid enough that yeah, could be top 5 sounds about right

[bitter trail]

i've seen some people be excited

they like that it looks like fun

[autumn hemlock]

Hmm, though I guess I'd need to sit down and decide if RotS or Solo is better on their own merits

[supple star]

I don’t think it’s going to be some groundbreaking out of this world story, but the Mandalorian works best when tells a smaller scale story.

So I am excited

[glad mason]

Kenobi had some peak light saber fights

[autumn hemlock]

I think it's possible they've made something alright, but I think Mando lost the sauce somewhere in S2 (maybe immediately after S2). I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not even waiting on reviews

[supple star]

In my opinion, Mando S3 was massively hampered by 1. BoBF and 2.||over focusing on Mandalor as a whole. To the point it stopped being Din’s show. Which is an adventure of the week show about a bounty hunter and his adopted son||

[supple star]

I don’t really remember them that well. Kenobi was the most forgettable of the lot for me. I remember Ashoka and Acolyte’s lightsaber fights a lot better.

[wispy lichen]

I don’t like Grogu

I’m excited for what the movie does in terms of larger worldbuilding

Not for the actual movie

[echo echo]

For reasons I'm actually not entirely clear on Mando sentiment is in the floor

[silk solar]

s3 was disliked iirc

[echo echo]

I think s2 is worse than s1 and s3 is worse than s2 (largely because it relies on plot points in BoBF) but I don't think any of Mando is outright bad

[glad mason]

Kenobi ||the fight with Vader was real cool||

[echo echo]

I think that opinion on Star Wars generally curdled around the time s3 released and that Mando is a reputational casualty of that

[silk solar]

||if i had a dime for every star wars property where the best thing said about it was "the figth with vader is cool"||

[glad mason]

||well the fight with Vader was cool||

Ahsoka ||the fight with Anakin was also cool||

[supple star]

I am interested to see if my opinion of s3 improves on this rewatch.

Rewatching season one has been great

[wispy lichen]

I thought S3 was good

[glad mason]

I might try watching Kenobi just to see how it is, my main issue with Ahsoka was really the styling and acting

[echo echo]

Kenobi is atrocious

[wispy lichen]

Mando ||focusing on Mandalore and not a bounty hunter helped. I thought it was dumb that they broke the dark saber tho||

[echo echo]

I DNF'd it at episode like three or four

[glad mason]

Star Wars all ||i also feel like Ahsoka is insanely overpowered and I hate that||

||she should not have beaten Maul or been even close to it||

[wispy vortex]

||why? Maul was trained as an assassin, not a real combatant. Ahsoka had been fighting continuously for years.||

||Trained by one of the best duelists in the galaxy||

[supple star]

That is what I didn’t like, primarily because I don’t think ||Bo-Katan works as well as a character.||

[glad mason]

SW ||maul was trained by Sidious as his “heir” pre-Anakin, he should (if we’re powerscaling) be in the tier directly below Anakin. Ahsoka was still a padawan at the time||

[wispy lichen]

||i agree but she’s better than Grogu||

[wispy lichen]

||TCW says Maul was tripping and fighting poorly tbf||

[glad mason]

||the styling for Bo Katan was real bad|| mando

[glad mason]

Tcw ||maul is always crashing out mid fight LOL. It’s his speciality||

[wispy vortex]

||No he wasnt, he was trained as an adept, an assassin, but specifically not a Sith. He was never going to be the heir, any more than Dooku was.||

[glad mason]

||that’s only in legends I think||

[silk solar]

||maul win a fight challenge||

[wispy lichen]

Rebels ||bro started tweaking during the duel he waited decades for and lost in one hit||

[wispy lichen]

||I think what makes Maul so amazing is how much he fails. Truly sisyphus ||

[glad mason]

||he was tweaking before the duel too||

[silk solar]

||i feel like if you want to assassinate jedi you need to be a really good duelist
||

[glad mason]

Maul shadow lord ||on the subreddit they’re calling him Darth Fraud||

[silk solar]

||else im not sure what the lightsaber is for||

[wispy vortex]

||Canon hasn’t commented on it, so it’s all we got.||

[glad mason]

Lightsabers are for aurafarming

[silk solar]

top 1 camille character of all time btw

[glad mason]

HES SO FUNNY

[supple star]

I got to disagree with that. ||His arc along with Din’s was screwed by BoBF and s3, but I think he works better on a fundamental level. Bo-Katan’s arc has no emotional weight when it really should have considering her past.||

[wispy lichen]

Maul general ||I admire how much of a failson he is. He fails time after time and is kept onward by pure spite. ||

[silk solar]

||potential sith

100 aura
1000 fodder disposed of
1 crashout (per episode)
0 wins against characters anyone has bought an action figure of
||

[glad mason]

Maul shadow lord ||literally there’s a scene where maul is like “only by using your rage will you have victory” and then loses. Hard. Like fully gets his ass kicked||

[autumn hemlock]

Oh yeah, is the Maul show good?

[glad mason]

Yeah!!

[wispy lichen]

Yea

[wispy vortex]

Yeah!

[wispy lichen]

They let sam witwer tweak for 10 episodes

[silk solar]

||but if you need to deal with a cop that looks like karl wheezer he is your guy||

[wispy vortex]

Absolutely gorgeous animation

[glad mason]

It’s gorgeous, the fights are great, it shows another side of the empire, and Maul crashes out at least once

[autumn hemlock]

And is it still good if I say Rebels was extremely mid except for a couple peaks?

[wispy lichen]

It’s different from rebels

(Rebels is my fav sw show)

[glad mason]

Msl ||bro spends the entire first half of the show aurafarming against mall cops and drug dealers, and then folds as soon as someone with a lightsaber shows up||

[silk solar]

i mean the avg clone wars episode isnt great either

[wispy vortex]

Clone wars is pretty good on average

[glad mason]

I don’t like rebels and maul shadow lord is peak

[silk solar]

yo camille thats heat takes maul off me to watch list

[autumn hemlock]

I'd believe it, IIRC I only got around to watching maybe the first season

[silk solar]

clone wars had a really consistent first season

they couldnt really keep that up from what i remember

[glad mason]

Consistently bad

My enjoyment of clone wars was really hampered by the fact I could not tell any of the clones apart, ever

[silk solar]

there are like two you need to know

[wispy lichen]

S1 of the clone wars is universally thought to be bad

[supple star]

I think on average I find rebels better than CW

[wispy lichen]

S2 is mid

[autumn hemlock]

Attack of the Clones ||Jango and Boba||

[wispy lichen]

S3 is where it “gets good”

[wispy lichen]

Saaaame

Rebels is fun

[silk solar]

Wait hold on

spoiler poll

[supple star]

CW has higher points, but I get tired of halfway through even some of the good arcs

[silk solar]

Star wars gen: ||
1: the one where maul loses
2: the one where maul loses
3: the one where maul loses
4: the one where maul loses
5: the one where maul loses
||

im just assuming there are 5 of these

[autumn hemlock]

||I think there are only 3? But I haven't watched a bunch of the LA shows||

[glad mason]

Tcw was really good at appealing to 12 year old boys

[wispy vortex]

Its target audience

[glad mason]

I watched tcw with my brother and he knew every single clone and their schtick, and I just commented whenever I thought a character was hot

[autumn hemlock]

As someone that was 15 when it came out, the movie sank any hopes of me watching it during its original run

[wispy lichen]

Bad Batch based

[silk solar]

which characters qualified

[autumn hemlock]

I know the art style grew on people, but trust me, when it came out, it was ugly

[wispy lichen]

Camille would like ||the evil doctor || from Bad Batch

[supple star]

It’s my favorite

[wispy lichen]

It’s good!

Really good

[supple star]

I don’t know why I included Resistance nobody is picking it

[glad mason]

Ventress (ofc), the one evil Mandalorian dude, the Jedi with the dreadlocks, crosshair (clone but he’s special), and that’s all I remember

[wispy lichen]

bad batch ||Star Wars’s first autism rep||

[unkempt sail]

I forgot it existed tbh

Ahsoka was a weekly reminder of "oh, we should probably watch Rebels at some point" with how much it was a sequel to it (though probably good for people like my dad who weren't going to sit through an animated show)

[Ahsoka, Kenobi] ||I'm glad Hayden got to come back and play Anakin again though! His parts were good.||

Oooh I forgot we recast The Hound for Ray Stevenson's character

[supple star]

Best part of Ahsoka in my opinion was Baylen and Shin

[warm thicket]

There is an objectively correct answer to this question

[silk solar]

yo kenobi kind of a chad

[warm thicket]

Tarcovsky Clone Wars graced us with Obi Wan in the clone armor and featured ||clone v droid jousting||

There is simply nothing better

[golden flame]

there's a Resistance show????

[wispy vortex]

Yeah, aimed at kids

[golden flame]

TIL, I guess it makes sense they'd try it

[bright blade]

Bad Batch S2 second half onward ||This guy gave me the creeps. He felt sinister in a way most Star Wars villains aren't. He's so soft-spoken and calm and his evil isn't committing great acts of violence. But what really got to me was that he sounded American, when I was so used to Imperials sounding British. 😆 His voice threw me off and that was the most unsettling thing about him.||

Anyway, for those who have finished the Maul show, is it good and worth watching all of?

I saw the first three episodes on Star Wars day just because it was Star Wars day and I don't feel much of a pull back to finishing it. The only real compliment I can give it is that the animation is beautiful, but other than that everything about it just seems okay. Not bad, not great, just... okay. Mediocre.

[restive bluff]

I feel like it really picks up when (Maul minor, in the trailers) ||the inquisitors show up|| which is episode 5

[unkempt sail]

https://bsky.app/profile/discontinuedfoods.bsky.social/post/3m5256gqgsc2g

Discontinued Foods! (@discontinuedfoods.bsky.social)

Darth Dew (2005-2005): A dark purple, grape-flavored Slurpee (essentially Mtn Pitch Black in Slurpee form), sold in collectible Star Wars cups, each featuring Darth Vader's head on top. Released to promote "Star Wars: Episode III"

Likes

269

Bluesky · Nov 7, 2025, 1:01 PM

[unkempt sail]

VP 13 ||Dozen and Two Avengers is a very silly name||

||oh. Well, I guess it didn't matter...||

[wispy vortex]

ouch

[unkempt sail]

VP 14 + The Great Hunt ||the Yuuzhan Vong showing up to conquer a galaxy that's unaware of them is giving me Seanchan vibes, especially with the organic/insectoid descriptions. Ma'Shraid entering on a litter reminds me of Suroth||

VP 15 + Legend of Zelda ||...while I haven't played it, the moon crashing planetside reminds me of Majora's Mask||

[slate island]

Some will appreciate this.

[wispy vortex]

VP Big ||Chewie 😭 hurts every time||

[unkempt sail]

VP 17 ||uhhhh did we just drop a moon on Chewie||

[wispy vortex]

Read my previous message

[unkempt sail]

||it felt very abrupt!! Like "ok, the stakes are high so we need to kill off someone from the main continuity but not one of our trio characters"||

[wispy vortex]

||It really does set the tone for the rest of the series. It’s not afraid to kill off characters ||

[unkempt sail]

VP 23 || RIP Rejuvenator, star destroyer cannon fodder||

[wispy lichen]

VP ||yeah that’s exactly it. It needs to set the stakes high, but wanted to keep the main trio alive. ||

[autumn hemlock]

VP ||I wouldn't be surprised if in one of the initial planning meetings they sat George down and asked who the most important person they were allowed to kill was||

VP all ||It's been a long time since I last read Vector Prime. I didn't remember Mara being ill from the start at all, and I could've sworn Sernpidal happened later in the book. All in all, it did a decent job of introducing the post-timeskip characters and their growth (I believe SQ was the next furthest book in the timeline, and it takes place at least 5 years before) and tying in the rest of Legends.||

[unkempt sail]

finished it, I think it's a better book than Courtship and definitely feels like a splashy way to begin a new storyline era

[red thunder]

I'm watching Adam Savage build a lightsaber, and god Star Wars can be so cool sometimes, even for a non-fan...

[warm thicket]

Star Wars is literally Rule Of Cool: The Movie

[wispy lichen]

<@&1396936875054203020> Today we move onto the second New Jedi Order book and begin our first subseries!
New Jedi Order has several duologies and trilogies that separate larger single books. We are moving onto Dark Tide I: Onslaught by Michael Stackpole.
Our next will be Dark Tide II: Ruin by Michael Stackpole.

As a bit of a fun fact: NJO was conceptualized as having "mainline" core books to read, of which the larger solo books (like Vector Prime, Star By Star, and Unifying Force). However, the "sub-books" meant to bridge the gap ended up being very important to the main events and so the original plan was largely forgotten.

[unkempt sail]

somewhat related- last week I watched this other vid by that Star Wars Centralized youtuber, and thought it was neat- this was one of his favorite covers I think https://youtu.be/vqKRw-x1_cY?si=FAo1XrF1Ucr-5eOu

[wispy lichen]

Yeah I think seeing art of it really elevates the story

(My favorites are the Japanese versions of the NJO covers because WOW)

I zoomed ahead and he mentioned the Japanese Traitor cover 🔥

[supple star]

Just got the books for the read along I ordered. Now I will be able to catch up.

[supple star]

Dang, apparently Tom Kaine, voice for Clone Wars Yoda, Admiral Yularen, and the Narrator passed away today.

[wispy lichen]

VP ||man I love Jacen and Anakin, they’re both so great||

[unkempt sail]

A eulogy of sorts by his son, which also goes into his love of Star Wars
https://www.kevinkane.net/p/last-night-i-lost-my-father

[grave cliff]

So what's the conclusion on M&G?

[glad mason]

Apparently it’s bad

[silk solar]

sw all ||having jedi survive the purge is lame||

i am planting that flag

[glad mason]

||true but the main egregious offender is Ahsoka||

||the rebels crew I’m tentatively okay with||

[autumn hemlock]

||Some Survivors is fine, but yeah, there are too many of them these days.||

[glad mason]

SW all ||don’t know about the redheaded dude, but Ezra is sent to the other side of the galaxy and Devon is gonna turn evil so they’re not issues (except when they bring Ezra back lol)||

||I would have killed Kanan earlier and made Ezra first and foremost a rebel with some Jedi training vs a full blown Jedi||

||I think a conflict with an Ezra who has spent a lot of time with the rebellion but very little Jedi training trying to make a militarized Jedi order as an arm of the republic vs Luke trying to build a more pacifistic and spiritual Jedi order could be interesting||

[supple star]

||I disagree, because if Order 66 killed 99% of about 10 thousand Jedi, and Vader a the Inquisitors mopped up most of the rest. There are really only a couple around at the time of ANH||

[autumn hemlock]

||So then you agree that they've given us too many survivors?||

[glad mason]

||I think any significant survivors is too much||

||ahsoka is too much lol because she’s too important||

||padawan #500 who goes to the outer rim and marries a moisture farmer and has three kids and occasionally mind tricks the banker because they need to an extension on the mortgage is fine||

||having an actually significant and powerful Jedi around post purge and into ANH is too much||

[autumn hemlock]

||So then you agree there are too many? We're at way more than two.||

[silk solar]

||the issue is not that 99% of jedi died, it is that a majority of the important ones survived. Ashoka is narratively important in a way Kit Fisto is not||

[supple star]

||What I mean is that there isn’t any Jedi running around by ANH. Ezra was in a different galaxy, we don’t know yet if Cal makes it, and any other survivors are in hiding like Ben and Yoda, or have straight up abandoned the Jedi path and cut themselves off from the Force. Plenty survived Order 66, but that makes sense.||

||I do think Ashoka should have died on Malachor||

[glad mason]

sw all ||i think there's a difference btween some random jedi in hiding and having anakin skywalker's padawan survive, especially when she is now apparently one of the top ten duelists in the galaxy now||

[echo echo]

||Not a high bar, since she is one of the only active remaining duelists||

[glad mason]

SW all ||yeah but even pre-purge she was (imo) crazy overpowered||

[supple star]

I am getting confused are we talking about ||Jedi surviving Order 66 or the purge as a whole, because the purge as a whole took a lot longer||

[echo echo]

||I've never been terribly interested in breaking out the scouter and measuring power level in any franchise and to the extent that that is the case I'm like well this is the reality of the main character of an animated kids' show||

||In the D+ show she's done basically nothing so like how do we even evaluate for a change in medium, which will have an effect on how her power level is portrayed||

||Ezra gets the biggest flex in the D+ show by grabbing the lightsaber with the force||

[glad mason]

||that's fair, my main point is that Ahsoka is a significant Jedi, both narratively, in terms of her connections to other characters, and in terms of not being a mook, so her survival takes away from the main story||

[echo echo]

||Does it? She sits out the OT and they've done some work to establish an existing relationship with Luke post-OT||

[upper tangle]

||My problem with Ahsoka isnt that she survived, but that they've kinda sanded down her personality into an archetype I feel she was best set up to distance herself from||

[supple star]

||I find her sitting out the OT questionable, mainly because they haven’t yet explained what she was doing during that time.||

||I really don’t think they have yet justified bringing her back from Malachor.||

[silk solar]

||i think writing her has a generic jedi master does objectively undercut luke/rei being new jedi masters||

||bc there is just one on the bench the entire time||

[upper tangle]

mhm

[glad mason]

SW ||luke as the founder of the new jedi order is undercut by a Jedi master from the old order surviving||

[silk solar]

||this also happens TWICE||

[upper tangle]

SW all ||Ahsoka being a quiet terrorist compared to Cal's "I'm Cal Kestis" blows up a building terrorist is probably where id have tried taking her||

[glad mason]

||wait, who's the second?||

[silk solar]

||no rei also remakes the jedi||

[glad mason]

SW ||are the sequels even canon at this point||

[silk solar]

yes

[supple star]

||I did like Ahsoka as Fulcrum. Her working to align the rebels cells, then soon dying after she reveals herself is where her story should have ended.||

[echo echo]

||I've never found Ahsoka a compelling character, but my apathy towards her is more a result of execution than concept, and this is as good an example as any||

[glad mason]

SW all ||Ahsoka starts off really annoying and gets glazed for being less annoying as time goes on||

[silk solar]

||i agree, but writing is 90% execution so if you are going to mess up one thing…||

[glad mason]

“Good concept, bad execution” is like 90% of canon SW post OT

[silk solar]

No there is a lot of bad concept in there too

||most of the sequel trilogy was bad concept||

[glad mason]

Okay that’s true 😭

[silk solar]

||except from rei stuff and the luke direction (assuming they rewrote almost everything about it)||

||returning to rebellion sucks, palpatine returning is bad, finn’s arc doesnt exist. Po?||

[glad mason]

||finn was a great concept that flopped hard. They should’ve made him becoming a Jedi the point of the ST||

[silk solar]

|| i would distinguish between premise and concept. They did not have a concept for finn’s character like they had a concept for rei’s backstory (which they backtracked on)||

[glad mason]

Fair

The ST that exists in my head has ||the republic building a death star||

[silk solar]

||finn’s character is bereft of any concept||

[silk solar]

The ST that exists in my head has ||the republic existing||

[glad mason]

Somebody should make a sequel to rogue one

[silk solar]

Isnt that new hope?

[echo echo]

I dunno the ways in which Ahsoka bores me as a character and always has have a pretty negligible impact on my enjoyment of Star Wars generally

I hang very little of it on Clone Wars generally, which to me is well below Star Wars standard in terms of quality

[glad mason]

tcw has some banger arcs though (the one with Ventress and Savage, the one with Maul, the other one with Maul, etc.,)

[echo echo]

It does, but fully half the show is unwatchable garbage

[glad mason]

noooo jar jar binks getting a girlfriend is cinema

[echo echo]

Of the films I think the only one of any of them I think is unwatchable is Rise of Skywalker. The others I can have a fun time with even if they're mid (e.g. prequels, Solo). Clone Wars falls well below that with its lows

[glad mason]

okay, i think the middle 50 minutes of aotc is fully unwatchable

[echo echo]

Sure I'll grant that

I'm not making a hard and fast rule here exactly, except to say Clone Wars is on the whole a much harder sell for me despite the last two seasons being mostly pretty good (and even then they managed to work in an absolute nothingburger arc about nothingburger characters into season seven for like two full episodes there)

[glad mason]

someone should make a live action adaptation of tcw that only has the good arcs

[supple star]

Hot take: but I like the sister’s arc and think it is above average for CW.

[silk solar]

describing the prequels as mid is a bit generous

rogue one i think is more enjoyable

[echo echo]

I think "mid" is a fine shorthand for "shallow swashbuckling fun punctuated by moderate to extreme cringe"

Clone Wars has entire arcs at a time that are unadulterated cringe

[weary pine]

-# bargining in with unwanted opinion on M&G
-# Disney burned me too many times with their recent shows to watch M&G, but I hope it does well enough to fund a good and new Star Wars story, that's not about rebels, empire, characters from the animated shows or video games

[echo echo]

That will never happen

I think Empire and Republic and/or Rebellion is kind of too baked in to what Star Wars is to ditch those in particular

[wispy lichen]

Another reason New Jedi Order is the GOAT

[echo echo]

I think you can reframe their relationship successfully, eg The Old Republic style cold war between evenly matched Empire and Republic, but I don't think you can ditch the idea entirely

[wispy lichen]

“Constant Empire vs Rebels is lame and we should have something new” yeah you know what did something new? LEGENDS

[silk solar]

you mean the upcoming film starring daisy ridley?

[weary pine]

I'm so tired of space nazis, though =(
They could at least do something like space mongols or something

[echo echo]

The film that has been vaguely upcoming for like a decade now?

[supple star]

That’s why I am really hopeful for Starfighter

[glad mason]

The space fascist schtick is a bit too stressful nowadays ngl

Would rather watch some fun leftist infighting between the rebels

[wispy lichen]

SW all ||I’m sorry but making Luke Skywalker a dumb hobo who hates everything is a destruction of the goat of love and compassion who saves the most evil person alive because he loves him despite the world telling him he should hate? Yeah he destroys his entire Jedi order and becomes a failure just like Obi Wan and Yoda. Yeah, the “start of the New Jedi” is just like all those other guys. And our awesome new perfect female character who is an amalgamation of all the traits of being a girlboss? She gets to do everything that was Luke’s||

[glad mason]

Different splinter factions of Jedi would also be fun

[wispy lichen]

😡

[weary pine]

I loved Andor, but I don't want more Andor
or Rebels brand of cartoonish space nazis

[wispy lichen]

SW all || “Luke turned to the dark in Legends” yeah and you know what he did? HE REDEEMED HIMSELF AND CONTINUED TO ESTABLISH HIS ORDER ||

[glad mason]

Give me different Jedi factions arguing over what the Force actually means and rebel factions trying to build a new world

[wispy vortex]

So Saw Guerrera vs Luthen vs Mon Mothma?

[wispy lichen]

Camille you’re not gonna believe this

[wispy vortex]

(Read legends)

[weary pine]

Kotor/Kreia flashbacks

[wispy lichen]

(Read New Jedi Order)

[glad mason]

Of course I want Che Guevara vs Danton vs girl Lafayette

[wispy lichen]

Want leftist infighting? Read NJO :p

[wispy vortex]

NJO is like 10 books longer than if there was no leftist infighting

[glad mason]

Edited to avoid politics ban 😭

[wispy lichen]

NJO is about ||the militant Jedi and the peaceful meditative Jedi not being able to agree||

[glad mason]

This would actually be a banger ST

[wispy lichen]

That’s what I sayyyy

[glad mason]

SW all ||I lowkey wanted Ezra leading the militarized Jedi and Luke trying to start a pacifist cult||

[silk solar]

||to have the jedi disagree about things we would have to establish in the films what the jedi believe and we have not done that yet||

[wispy lichen]

The solution to all of this is people need to read SW books lol

[wispy lichen]

||Ezra and Kyp Durron do seem a lot alike ngl||

[glad mason]

SW all ||gimme a pacifist Jedi cult that is all about Catholic guilt and Puritan work ethic and not having fun||

[glad mason]

SW all ||ezra being primarily a rebel who is coincidentally a Jedi vs Luke being a Jedi who is coincidentally a rebel||

[wispy lichen]

SW all ||Ezra also trends closer to the dark for more of his appearances. ||

[glad mason]

SW all ||I wish Ezra was in a better show than rebels 😭 ||

[silk solar]

||didnt luke kill hundreds of thousands of people in a war scenario||

||movie wise a lot of writing would need to be done to get him to pacifism ||

[glad mason]

SW all ||yeah but having Luke take a pacifist turn post Rotj would be kinda cool||

[silk solar]

||which honestly would be a more interesting reason for him to isolate in episode 8||

||him being like yeah, i didnt accomplish anything, people just went back to war so i dipped||

[wispy lichen]

||in NJO he becomes much more pacifist-like because his fall to the dark and constant overuse of the force led him to want to set a better example for his students to prevent them from making the same mistakes he did (using the force militarily instead of for peaceful contemplation)||

[wispy vortex]

Blasphemy

[wispy vortex]

VP ||You can see how completely he’s left behind pride in Lando’s Folly||

[quick ibex]

https://x.com/IGN/status/2056740935891812473 oh its Bad

IGN (@IGN)

The first new Star Wars movie in seven years gets caught almost immediately in a feedback loop of self-satisfied nostalgia which it seldom pulls out of.

Our The Mandalorian and Grogu review: https://t.co/XT9w0ix8j4

X · May 19, 2026, 2:17 PM

[supple star]

I have never listened to IGN and I am not going to take their word.

They gave the new Animal Farm movie a 7

[quick ibex]

yeah i mean them not glazing something generally is a sign that its bad

[silk solar]

7 for ign is a normal person’s 5

5 for them is like a 2

[quick ibex]

I like the new animal farm movie because it finally gives orwells book the respect it deserves

[silk solar]

So that means it either sucks, or the culture is such that ign doesnt mind but out a negative review

Either is bad

[autumn hemlock]

There is an edge case where the assigned reviewer just doesn't get it, but if they're assigning a Star Wars to someone that doesn't get Star Wars, that's almost worse

[supple star]

Yeah I see them reviews good things as bad all the time.

But in this case I think I just have different wants for this movie than a lot of the reviews.

I just want a fun movie to see with my family when I visit for Memorial Day weekend.

[autumn hemlock]

I think PHM is still airing in some places, though M&G might've finally bumped it

[quick ibex]

this will probably be the worst star wars movie other than ep9

[supple star]

Very much doubt that, the reviews are all call it fun and inoffensive. Which is not what TRoS is. That movie had spite

[grave cliff]

Yes though this doesn't have a female protagonist, so that may shape discussion

[quick ibex]

ep9 is Tros

[silk solar]

Idk if rei factored in at all to people hating ep 9

[quick ibex]

i wish ep9 had spite for star wars that sounds like a way better movie

[quick ibex]

yeah that was ep 8

[supple star]

Oh misread what you said.

[glad mason]

rey got a lot of haters after e7 for being a girlboss but i think the real issue is she didn't have any fans cause she was kind of a blank slate

also duck you repeatedly calling her rei is killing me

[silk solar]

Sowwy

[glad mason]

roleplay is banned duck

[silk solar]

ST ||i thought it was bad to give her so much in ep7 without anything to compensate, so i like ep 8, but then they forgor about that||

[quick ibex]

i like 8

not 7 or 9 though

[silk solar]

I dont like any of them, but i think 8s issues are disjoint from the issues with 7 and 9

[glad mason]

8 tried to do something at least

i'll give it that

[silk solar]

I could see a second draft fixing ep 8. I cant say the same about 9

[wispy lichen]

I’ll be honest: Animal Farm looks like a 2 and M and G looks like a 6.5-7

[supple star]

Anyway most reviews that have talked about it within the context of the Mandalorian series have said it feels like the average episode. Which I am fine with. Maybe I will find it above or below. I have just found reviews for this film less than useful for affecting me in any way.

[glad mason]

One of my friends had the funniest criticism of 8, which was that it killed the plot points

[wispy lichen]

M and G seems like a fun family action flick that is just like s1 of the show

[glad mason]

Not that the plot points were bad, just that it killed them off

[wispy lichen]

Which is kinda lame but it’s not trying to be different or more than that

[quick ibex]

most of 8s issues come from 7 imo

[wispy lichen]

Animal Farm is offensively bad looking

[quick ibex]

based

[glad mason]

||the Finn and Poe plot sucked, especially Rose (imo)||

[quick ibex]

i despise orwell he deserves infinite horrible adaptations

[wispy lichen]

It looks more akin to the overhated but fine Solo than the terrible Rise of Skywalker

[glad mason]

Wait what did he do

[quick ibex]

his books are garbage and have a childish ubderstanding of politics

and

[glad mason]

Okay that is a hot take

[quick ibex]

he was a burmese colonial cop who did a lot of evil stuff i cant talk about here

[wispy lichen]

ST ||my issue is E7 gave her setup and E8 felt (to me as a kid) like it was tearing away the toys I was given to play with just because other people had toys first decades ago||

[glad mason]

I think his books were influenced by his experience in Catalonia and the purge of the cnt by the commies

[silk solar]

It is a weird choice for SW’s cinema return

Starfighters would make much more sense

[wispy lichen]

I agree but I don’t like Mandalorian

[quick ibex]

also he worked with the british government to sell out political agitators

[wispy lichen]

I want actual SW worldbuilding and mysticism not adventure of the week bounty hunting tho

[glad mason]

did he sell out agitators or foreign ussr agents

[wispy lichen]

Mando was popular for being a fun action flick

[glad mason]

Probs not the place for this convo tho

[quick ibex]

agitators

[wispy lichen]

Okay guys pls (1). no politics (2). This is SW

[glad mason]

Man those stars huh

[wispy lichen]

Those stars sure do be warring

[quick ibex]

Mando s3 was also pretty bad

[glad mason]

They should just make infinite maul content for his #1 fan (me)

[wispy vortex]

yes

[silk solar]

What happened with the influencer drama

[wispy lichen]

We need a Jedi centric show that is about the force and not Jedi hating because “the dark side is cool and edgy”

[wispy vortex]

what influencer drama

[wispy vortex]

We need an I, Jedi movie

[glad mason]

My brother was watching ||tcw episode where maul kills satine|| and I stood in the background saying “THATS MY GOAT” everytime Maul showed up on screen

[quick ibex]

i think we need less jedi centirc stuff

[silk solar]

It is weird that the live action material never establishes why someone would follow the light side other than it being the morally correct choice

They really need to hammer that down

[wispy lichen]

People always say SW has too much Jedi but we don’t have actual Jedi centric stories just stories with Jedi being Jedi

[glad mason]

Nah we need more Jedi

[wispy lichen]

Like no… we have action heroes we don’t have Jedi

[glad mason]

Jedi reformation with catholic Jedi fighting Lutheran Jedi and anabaptist Jedi

[wispy lichen]

E1 and E5 are probably the closest?

[silk solar]

Everyone want to write a protag with the powers of luke and the personality of han

[glad mason]

Jedi arguing about whether the force is the same as the force or only of similar substance to the force

[silk solar]

Which really does miss the point

[wispy lichen]

Give us space monk stories I beg

I’n dying of drought

[quick ibex]

jedi schmalkaldic wars after the end of OT

[glad mason]

Yesss please

Jedi splinter groups related to but not the same as rebel splinter groups

[wispy lichen]

“The force is inherently dualistic and is influenced by the collective conscious!”
“No all is one and a biased force cannot connect all life!”
“Nah the force just is…”

Let me write all the different force viewpoints and criticize Kreia as an ass

[silk solar]

All i want is a force user in live action whose philosophy actually sounds like a philosophy

[quick ibex]

and then another war 100 years later than people put too much emphasis on amd credit the developments of the previous war onto that war

[silk solar]

Instead of hand waving any difficult issue to let the audience nod along

[wispy vortex]

The problem with movies is that people dont want to watch philosophy

[wispy lichen]

Qui Gon but that was checks notes 25 years ago

[quick ibex]

whos people

[glad mason]

Can we get Jedi Calvinism

[wispy vortex]

the average moviegoer

[silk solar]

Qui Gon also gets ignored bc of mitichlorians

[wispy vortex]

The people who pay the bulk of the money

[quick ibex]

yeah i know i meant that more as a joke of how i wanna watch philosophy

[silk solar]

It really doesnt take that much screen time or “philosophizing”

[glad mason]

The force already decides who falls to the dark side and who doesn’t

[wispy lichen]

Qui Gon is actually really important from a philosophical analysis of SW

[silk solar]

It would just need to be actually written into the scripts

[quick ibex]

We need force materialism

[wispy lichen]

Like I’d put Yoda, Qui Gon, (NJO)|| Vergere||, and Kreia as the main “philosophers” pushing viewpoints on the force.

[wispy vortex]

We need force utilitarianism

[wispy lichen]

The dark side be like

[quick ibex]

kreia

lol

[glad mason]

If yoda is a philosopher he should learn English grammar

[golden flame]

whether you think her viewpoint on it is a good viewpoint or not, she does pretty definitely have one

[wispy vortex]

Why, hes more understandable than half the philosophers Ive read

[quick ibex]

oh its a dumb one

[wispy lichen]

Yeah. I flat out think Kreia is wrong but she has a very interesting view and it’s fun to analyze.

[golden flame]

he's experimenting with the philosophy of language

[wispy vortex]

What is her view?

[golden flame]

">:("

[wispy vortex]

My college had a class on that, wish I could have taken it

No matter what Monkey types, Im going to respond with "actually based"

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||she sees the force as linked to an external ideology almost like a god that picks right and wrong and lets people suffer, lets some people win or lose, exercising vast control over the force. And she HATES that it has a will because it has controlled the path her life has taken despite herself wanting to be the manipulator and controller. She hates feeling like a pawn that the force moves. And she hates that as the force leans, millions die.
So operating under the assumption that the force has a will and is more a pool of energy than anything||

[wispy vortex]

actually based

Also wow that is wrong

[silk solar]

You can feel Naru in the room with us

[wispy lichen]

If you think of qs like (SW all) || “why do people suffer if the force exists” and “if the force exists and Jedi are good why do they die and perish and get massacred?” Or the classic “can you really just murder and murder so long as you have a pure mind and be good?” (Shoutout to my goat vergere), she comes to an answer very different ||

[quick ibex]

the problem is that in game a lot of it is just her being edgy

[glad mason]

Isn’t this the classic problem of evil reheated

[wispy lichen]

It’s basically two opposing viewpoints between Kreia and the NJO philosophy as answers to the same qs

[quick ibex]

Shed be a lot better in a game not written by chris avellone

[silk solar]

I also think if SW wants to be a dumb action film franchise, they should also make that more fun

ST are not great as action films

[glad mason]

I mean, philosophy doesn’t have to be right or sensical or even remotely plausible to be right

[wispy lichen]

Fwiw I agree but only because I’m so NJO pilled which you also are lol

[glad mason]

It just has to be funny

[unkempt sail]

after participating in our EU readalong, i think I just really want a rogue squadron film so I am anxiously looking at what Starfighters'll turn out to be

[wispy vortex]

its such an easy win

[quick ibex]

but generally im just not a fan of the old republic

[wispy lichen]

Naru was heavily influenced by Kreia LOL

[glad mason]

Like 99% of what comes out of Maul’s mouth is straight schizophrenia but within the context of the story he’s a) kinda right and b) more importantly, funny

[quick ibex]

it just being such a bad setting kind of ruins both kotors for me

[silk solar]

I just want something post episode 6 that i feel matters

And isnt terrible

[glad mason]

Man, I hope Naru is in a better place (offline)

[golden flame]

[KotOR 2] ||definitely related, though tied in with some other opinions of hers on free will and a "use people or be used by people" streak||

[unkempt sail]

I still haven't gotten around to watching new Top Gun, but plenty of people liked it so between Gosling charisma and the fun of found family squadron shenanigans, I am 👀 on what happens with it

[wispy vortex]

It was really good. Exactly as advertised

Military propaganda disguised as nostalgia with cool dogfights and homoerotic undertones

Loved it

[silk solar]

Who gets to be a jedi is also a really interesting question

[unkempt sail]

I'm curious to see how NJO goes as an alternative view of post-OT plotlines (I mean, arguably we've had plenty of that with the Thrawn stuff, but NJO feels as ambitious as making a sequel trilogy)

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||yeah she is firm on the “if you help people you are depriving them of the ability to flourish by gaining the strength to help themselves”. You try to give a beggar money and she yells at you about denying them the privilege of helping themselves. ||

Classic Kreia

[wispy lichen]

NJO is definitely the “Sequel” yeah

[quick ibex]

I do wish that they had the star wars sequels set like 300 years after the OT with noticable technological and societal progresssion

[golden flame]

||and also informed by her deciding both the Jedi and Sith are lame but her super cool awesome protégé Revan is the best role model ever which has nothing to do with her pride at all||

[quick ibex]

I need to get around to the thrawn trilogy eventually

[wispy vortex]

But then how could they have nostalgia bait every 3 seconds?

[glad mason]

Off topic but I’m reminded of that one Chinese top gun knockoff that has a moment of silence as the camera patriotically pans to a graveyard of dead pilots, but they’re all test pilots and it’s like a literal ww1 graveyard full of em

[wispy lichen]

||and she definitely doesn’t hate the force just because she’s a pathetic excuse for a human who manipulates people and destroys their lives so she got karma. Definitely not. ||

[silk solar]

I dont think social or technological progress interests me intrinsically

[glad mason]

Boooo

Boooooo

Boooooooo

[quick ibex]

the only post OT eu stuff ive done is jedi academy

[wispy vortex]

https://giphy.com/gifs/boo-zFq6QnA8g7iuI

[silk solar]

I think it is rarely rarely done in an interesting way

[wispy vortex]

You need to read I Jedi

[glad mason]

Hey duck you should read wolf hall

[quick ibex]

not a big fan of apple products

[silk solar]

And i have no interest in it for SW specifically bc the tech level is (intentionally) vague

It just seems like a mismatch

Like they still use bombers to drop bombs. In space.

[wispy lichen]

People will say SWTOR is lame because it uses the OT aesthetic but I have fun living my Jedi dream okay

[quick ibex]

they didnt even do anything interesting with the new republic in thr canon materials

[glad mason]

I think the potential for splinter rebel groups is a really interesting way to explore ideology in Star Wars

[quick ibex]

let me rewrite star wars so i can make the new republic just be robespierre

[glad mason]

Hey Zor, you should read a place of greater safety by Hilary Mantel

[quick ibex]

its in my tbr

[glad mason]

RELIGIOUS INFIGHTING

[quick ibex]

Andor needed more leftist infighting

[glad mason]

But also leftist infighting and darth maul crashout, yes

[wispy lichen]

Camille says she wants leftist in-fighting and manic crash outs but won’t read NJO smh

[glad mason]

My other idea is a Jedi that gets kicked out of the order for graft and taking bribes

[quick ibex]

john andor shouldve called jane andor a revisionist

[glad mason]

He doesn’t fall to the dark side, he just takes bribes

[wispy lichen]

NJO early + Maul ||why yes Nom Anor is a standin for Maul||

[unkempt sail]

unfortunately andor needed to be efficient with its episode time, so best we can get is S2E2 I think? ||rebel cells shooting at each other while Cassian fumbles his way to an escape||

[glad mason]

Okay fine 😭 😭 😭

[glad mason]

Bro’s design is somehow edgier than Maul wtf

[wispy vortex]

Hes Monkey's favorite scheming blorbo

[quick ibex]

incredibly glup <Redacted>o name

[wispy lichen]

I wish

He’s a real character tho

[glad mason]

I think the filter should make an exception for that one word 😭

[quick ibex]

any njo character is a glup

[wispy lichen]

He is a scheming blorbo this is true

[unkempt sail]

he's also the "wtf is happening here" character on the cover of Vector Prime

[quick ibex]

bad ps1 zombie game render design

[autumn hemlock]

I mean... That is the right time window...

[wispy lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/lmfao-lmao-laughing-laughing-hysterically-laughing-and-crying-gif-17366703318476009053

[autumn hemlock]

(The book's from 1999)

[wispy lichen]

Literally him btw

[wispy lichen]

The Vector Prime cover is so lame haha

Japanese one is better

[glad mason]

Okay I looked at it more and why does he have the hairstyle typically associated with 6 year old African American girls

[wispy vortex]

I dont think thats hair

[wispy lichen]

Here is our first Japanese Dark Tide cover too

[wispy lichen]

Those are probably cape flairs or horns or smth

[autumn hemlock]

Wow, did they just grab a shot of Leia from RotJ?

[unkempt sail]

NJO but I've only read one book and 15 pages of the second ||probably weird tentacles from something latched on to his head to do something moist||

[wispy lichen]

||oh you’re right ||

[glad mason]

Okay this looks hype

[glad mason]

Okay I zoomed in and you’re right it doesn’t look like hair but it does look AI generated

[glad mason]

Wait what

||something moist?||

[wispy lichen]

NJO has ||a lot of body horror and biotech||

[glad mason]

Okay that’s cool

[wispy lichen]

||so if he’s wearing something, it’s probably alive and wet||

[glad mason]

Okay that’s less cool

[silk solar]

@glad mason punching air rn

[glad mason]

Noooooooo

We were so close to greatness

[vale dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-rogue-one-krennic-this-c-lose-gif-10935154

[glad mason]

They should make a SW show where the main characters are Thomas Cromwell, Oliver Cromwell and Maximilian Robespierre and the plot is confiscating property owned by the Jedi order

Actually, did the Jedi Order has a whole own property?

Like the Catholic Church had vast land holdings and even most Buddhist temples, etc are quite rich

Wait, I have a new idea for a SW show

The Empire demolishes an ancient Jedi temple and lets developers build a block of condos there

the show is a sitcom about the condo managers trying to sell off a clearly haunted building

at some point they realize there were secret texts in the demolished building and darth vader has to show up to speak to the property manager

[echo echo]

Its called "Moon's Haunted" and is the reverse Destiny crossover

(This joke is mostly for @mental stag)

[mental stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-snow-snow-day-what-shocked-gif-16544217

[silk solar]

I will be gorgu maxxing soon enough

[silk solar]

Grogu has been witnessed

[wispy vortex]

God I love these books

[glad mason]

How was it

[silk solar]

grogu review, no plot details or hard spoilers. ||i do not think it beat the converted Disney+ season accusations. i havent seen any mando content outside of the first episode, and i followed basically everything that happened perfectly, which i think is a product of simplistic writing. all the characters for this movie specifically are also really awkwardly included. i dont know what they were cooking with some of them.

I also think the action is really rough to get through. i am not full cinema sins with this, but there are so many times where things happens and you just scratch your head, either because bad guys miss point blank, or enemies take the least efficient route to escape/enter combat. i dont think it does anything outright offensive, but it frustrated me by never writing a scene that i think suprassed the most boiler plate first draft pitch you would have in that scenario. all the character beats work because they are cliches, not bc the movie really executes them well||

[wispy lichen]

M and G ||I’m expecting a 7/10 cliche Disney adventure movie and it sounds like that’s exactly what it is which is a bummer because this is the time to start some world building and development ||

[silk solar]

||i think your expectations are appropriately set||

||i am not being rude here, i do not think this movie builds or develops anything||

||it is what is on the tin||

[wispy lichen]

SW gen ||Fwiw I’d say Solo is the same but 8/10||

[wispy vortex]

When are you seeing it?

[wispy lichen]

Idk prob next week some time

Not very motivated lol

[silk solar]

||havent seen solo tbc, but i think grogu gets penalized from the fact a better version of it already exists on D+||

[wispy lichen]

||I think Grogu is an uninteresting character that is functionally a merch machine without any traits of his own ||

||the baby gimmick wore off with S1||

|| he needs to grow up lmao||

[silk solar]

||i was really dissapointed that didnt much happen in this movie tbh||

||i also think his cuteness has diminishing returns. it is best experienced in relatable memes posted on FB||

[wispy lichen]

||so Grogu is a minion ||

[silk solar]

||i saw the most recent minion trailer before grogu, and so i can emphatically say no, bc i have no idea what the hell the minions are up to||

||cthulu was involved? idk||

[wispy lichen]

||sounds more fun than M and G||

[silk solar]

true!

m and g gen ||i think it is a weird choice to put mando in a fun action film, bc his character doesnt emote that well, at least with how the writing portrays him, so he comes off as this super serious guy in a crazy plot that doesnt quite jive||

||also dave filoni cameos with his cowboy hat and that should have been grounds for termination ||

[wispy vortex]

||I’m pretty sure it’s part of his head? Have you ever seen him without it? Exactly||

[silk solar]

||it is really distracting in the scene tbh||

[warm thicket]

I've been a pretty die hard Grogu hater since day 1 for this very reason. He's just a forever baby, and I don't think that's interesting.
Mandalorian all ||Also there was the episode where he ate that lady's babies and it was treated as a silly gag instead of murder.||

[silk solar]

M and g ||i think he baby regresses in this movie||

[warm thicket]

Ugh

[supple star]

I like Grogu as a character, but I do really worry that they are afraid to progress with his character.

M S2&3 ||We learned that he deliberately regressed after Order 66 to protect himself, like many other Jedi, so his arc is set up for him to progress, even though he is afraid of it. But I think they did some damage to that by reuniting him and Din way too early, when It should have been what Season 3 built to.||

[wispy vortex]

Grogu is just a stupid name

[supple star]

Is it really, this is Star Wars we are talking about.

[warm thicket]

Mandalorian all
||The writers really wanted to have that bit where Mandalorian goes, "This is a baby, the bounty I'm looking for is 50 year old." and then they reveal the baby is 50. Yoda died around 900, so still being an actual baby who can't talk at 50 kinda takes away from Yoda's implied maturity imo.
I think this could have been solved by having Grogu be like 20 I could head cannon that he's just emotionally stunted, but this long of him being a baby is too much ||

[supple star]

||He is stunted, it is outright said that he did that to hide and protect himself.||

||Plus 20 years would have him being born after the fall of the Jedi||

[silk solar]

||i would just have him develop rapidly after 50. No reason it has to be an exact ratio with human development||

||otherwise he is relegated to a gag character most of the time||

[warm thicket]

||I think if he had started talking after season 1 I would have stuck with the show, but I didn't finish because it really felt like nothing was happening||

[supple star]

||I disagree that he needs to start talking, because he does become able to communicate better even though he’s non-verbal. I think it would be cool if they commit to the idea that he is nonverbal because of his trauma.||

||As long as they actually progress with his character and treat him as more than just a gag.||

[silk solar]

||idk why they would start that after 3 seasons and a movie||

||surely any reasonable plan for that would have started now||

[warm thicket]

||I guess that's more what I mean. It never felt to me like he was anything other than a gag. I agree that if he was non verbal that would be cool, so talking isn't the right word but communicating in some way as a real character||

[supple star]

||They did start it in season 2, but then screwed up a bit with 3. I hoped the movie would continue with it (the trailers seemed to point to it) but I guess that doesn’t happen. Which is why I said that I think they are too afraid to do anything with him||

[supple star]

||I’ve been rewatching the show and in s2 it feels like he does communicate a lot, or specifically trying to avoid communicating with someone as seen in the Ashoka episode. Him being afraid of doing so is brought up multiple times.||

[silk solar]

||i havent seen the show, but i felt like grogu was exactly the character i expected from s1 gifs, which seems to indicate something is off||

[supple star]

||Was he active in the movie or was he just being carried around. The clips from the trailers seemed to suggest that he does a lot of stuff in the movie on his own, without Mando. In Season 1 he is very inactive, he basically gets knocked out the few times he uses the force||

[supple star]

Rewatching the best episode right now, S2E7. Bill Burr’s character is so good.

M S2E7 ||The use of a heroic fanfare when the TIE’s show up to “save” the day, all Stormtroopers pumping their fists and cheering. It ropes you into because it is what the protagonists need, but then you realize that it was the Empire slaughtering natives like they always do||

[silk solar]

Im not sure how to answer this bc it is yes and no at the same time. Tag me after you watch it and we can talk

[wispy lichen]

I agree with this

[silk solar]

||it seems like the natural play. Have him go through yoda adolescence||

[echo echo]

General ||Makes me realize Cal Kestis might be the most organic development of a Jedi we have so far||

||Obi-wan teaches Luke the basics of aura farming (shoot without aiming, don't look back at explosions) and then he goes to a space swamp for a couple of days and he just kinda is the biggest badass around until he isn't. Anakin was similarly a prodigy and most of his training arc is between movies. Rey stumbles into success somewhat similarly to Luke, with more (implied) overt training between films. Many of the other Jedi we see are more or less fully formed when we see them, and Grogu is locked in at baby. But Cal has an overt Padawan-Knight-(ostensibly) Master progression game-to-game that you actually don't see a ton. Maybe closest analogue is Ezra||

[silk solar]

||i think ideally we would continue to see luke develop post ep 6 into a true sage, vs someone who had a singular goal of saving his dad, and i am sure this happens in some book. But i agree, the on scree development is often very stop start. Does ashoka have a clean development in revels?||

[echo echo]

||Ahsoka is kind of perennially overpowered by virtue of Clone Wars requiring her to be more or less immune from harm, and Rebels doesn't have a great chance to walk that back insofar as she's in it at all||

[wispy lichen]

||The closest analogue is Kanan imo||

[echo echo]

||Anakin also seems weirdly uninterested in training her and mostly is just like "you should shoot from the hip like me" and it works because yknow kids show protagonist||

[echo echo]

General ||I knew a guy who thought Cal was Kanan ||

[wispy lichen]

||Legends has it a bit better in that we have several series focusing on Jedi training. We see Obi Wan, Anakin (Skywalker), Jacen and Jaina, Anakin (Solo), all go through their training and we see a lot of Jedi who have done similarly||

Gen ||I do think Cal, while great, suffers in the video game-ification of being a Jedi and loses out on being more sage-like or meditative and instead feels solo combat based to me||

[echo echo]

||I actually kind of specifically don't mean training, exactly, I chose the word "development" really specifically. I think there's a significant overemphasis on training where a lot of the Force is less practicing skillsets and more learning to be the right person in the right place doing the right thing||

[wispy lichen]

Gen || I would solidly say Cal feels to me more action hero and less Jedi. Luke is similar in canon, but DOES meditate a lot and introspect a lot in Legends. These are traits that are key to the Jedi way for me. ||

||it’s not really a good “Jedi” for me without mediation and introspection personally||

[silk solar]

||i dont think rey’s personality really changes in her arc for example||

||she just gets better with the force and vaguely more mature?||

[echo echo]

||I think that's an approach, for sure, but certainly not the only one, especially for someone like Cal who hasn't necessarily had the option to live at something of a remove the way Luke eventually does. Learning to instinctually take right action and being active in the world on a like moment to moment basis is I think a very interesting approach to being a Jedi||

[wispy lichen]

||Rey is a bad example of a Jedi. Luke is a good example. ||

[silk solar]

||rey doesn’t have many Jedi qualities tbh||

||she just has the force||

[echo echo]

||I also don't think its fair to say Cal doesn't meditate (he does at every save point) or introspect, though he doesn't have the luxury of doing it internally like he would if he were a book character, he needs someone to play off of by virtue of the medium||

[wispy lichen]

||yeah I like Cal but I wouldn’t point to him as an ideal “Jedi” when he is different by virtue of (1). The era he exists in (2). It’s a video game so people wanna fight and be cool and not have philosophical conversations for hours||

[echo echo]

||I don't think non-fighting or philosophical conversations are qualifiers for the ideal Jedi. In many cases (especially the prequel era Jedi) I think a lot of words and little action are kind of The Problem||

[silk solar]

||i think you can have more action oriented jedi, prequel obi wan is an example, but obi wan is also someone who i would go to for advice, which is key||

[wispy lichen]

||Obi Wan is extremely meditative and contemplative ||

[echo echo]

||He also jumps into a group of Separatists with a witty "hello there"||

[wispy lichen]

||like Jedi are not action heroes they are Knight Sages ||

[echo echo]

||I don't think that makes him less of a Jedi, more, actually||

[silk solar]

||that is an aspect of his character but he is also the only jedi in the prequels who regularly accomplishes things||

||obi wan wore the sage aesthetic with confidence that other characters lack||

||and his personality shown through||

[echo echo]

General ||The Force is there to be used! "Use the Force" is the primary exhortation Obi-wan has to offer!||

[silk solar]

||i iust dont but mace windu or rey in contrast, for opposite reasons||

[autumn hemlock]

SW Legends ||Don't tell that to early NJO Luke!||

[wispy lichen]

||most Legends media would argue it is there not to be used but to exist as something part of all life. A tie that binds, not a thing to use||

|| like it’s not a tool. It is a life force and the embodiment of all things||

[silk solar]

||i always got the vibe obi wan was very practical. He wasnt going to go on university lectures. But he would handle most situations thoughtfully and was generally a kind person||

[wispy lichen]

||canon has, unfortunately, just seen it as “cool action hero super power”||

[silk solar]

Ep 9 ||aaaaaaaand rey can force heal now!||

[autumn hemlock]

SW Legends ||Where I'm at in Legends/NJO, the "Presented as true" stance is that Obi-Wan's "Use the Force" is a developmental adage used as a stepping stone to get to "Don't use the force, but feel it, and let it flow through you".||

[echo echo]

General ||This is true, but it seems expressly clear to me that the Force has if not will then certainly a direction to it and that an inspiration or call to action is a fundamental part of what the Force has to say for itself||

[silk solar]

||i always like it when series portray different ways someone can be wise, and i think the same should apply for jedi. They should be of an elevated mentality, but not uniformly so||

[wispy lichen]

||yea but we see, heavily at times, seeing it as a tool or a power to use leads to dark tendencies. Like Luke using the force for super feats was bad because it was all about flash and not about the natural flow of the force. ||

[autumn hemlock]

||Like yes, you need to know how to use the Force, but you aren't going to get a Master's in Jedi'ing by using the force, you need to stand aside and understand the Force.||

[silk solar]

||the force did help luke win a military engagement||

[echo echo]

||Many such cases!||

[silk solar]

||also if the force is in all things im not sure why everyone cant use it, but im sure legends addressed this at some point. Weird canon never really did except that one time||

[wispy lichen]

||there are different ways to interpret the force’s body. Qui Gon believed in the living force or that life was meant to come as it did. Obi Wan was more practical and sought to contemplate action as he went, but always thought everything through. And I think the bottom line is a Jedi should be using the force philosophically and action-oriented. It needs to be both, but especially philosophically. ||

[wispy lichen]

||everyone can use it, some are just more naturally open to it, but everyone can train to be more in sync with it. ||

||canon addressed that one too||

[silk solar]

||i do think for all practical purposes, the force has no philosophical consequences in live action films in the Disney era||

[echo echo]

||The people mad about this somehow being a new thing with Sabine give off tourist energy to me for this reason||

[silk solar]

||which is probably a top 25 problem in those movies, mentally ballparking it||

[wispy lichen]

||I agree! And the philosophy of the force is my top favorite SW thing sooooo||

[autumn hemlock]

Legends all (This is in fact a legends all, and is spoilers for very late NJO, IIRC) ||Excluding the Vong, excluding double-exceptions||

[silk solar]

I should make that list sometime

[wispy lichen]

We need more force centric Star Wars

The last one was uh…

Uhm…

[silk solar]

||i lowkey think this is one if the main reasons episode 8 fails. It tries to cash in force checks that bounce||

[wispy lichen]

I guess KOTOR 2

[echo echo]

||Even if I think Lucas' ideas of what Light and Dark meant were muddled and often absurd, at least he seemed to have an idea of what he was going for, and many of the people who have come to play in the Star Wars sandbox have had better ideas than Lucas did. Disney's structural confusion has not promoted any sort of basic ideas here||

[autumn hemlock]

So you're saying Kreia is the default correct stance, and Traitor is a fraud?

[wispy lichen]

Legends all (very late NJO, major NJO spoilers) || we hear a few diff interpretations but I like the “the Vong are on a different radio frequency” one. It is most in line with Stover’s set up for All is One ||

[silk solar]

||good way of putting it. I believed lucas knew what he meant, even if i dont think it translated. Disney era has actually no idea what is going on||

[wispy lichen]

Kreia is a dumdum

She is a fun dumdum to think about tho

[silk solar]

Ep 8 ||maybe the single biggest script error i have ever seen is never establishing why kylo wants to go to the dark side||

[wispy lichen]

||because he’s edgy and his uncle tried to kill him but he’s so sad and edgy..???||

[autumn hemlock]

I would say less that she's a dumdum, and more that her journey is incomplete.

[silk solar]

||his uncle tried to kill him bc he was watching force Andrew Tate or smthng? weird to then make rey determined to redeem him when we never establish 1) what he did and 2) what redemption means||

[wispy lichen]

||Ben killed all of Luke’s temple LOL||

|| And it’s Luke’s fault that his Order died||

[silk solar]

||yeah no idea why that happened||

||maybe im misremembering but idk why ben listened to snoke at all||

||if the implication is he didnt and luke just goofed, that is really dumb||

[echo echo]

General ||The ST had this fascinating opportunity to flip the script with someone on the dark side being tempted and resisting the temptation of the light side and they completely bungled it||

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||yeah she asks thought-provoking questions and has a lot of good points, but it feels like she comes to the wrong conclusions ||

[wispy lichen]

I think that is?

[silk solar]

||it would also work well with rey’s character where she thinks she should be able to imitate luke and fails||

[silk solar]

||i feel like this is insufficient for him to then murder unrelated people||

[echo echo]

||I also think the missed opportunity of having Luke reverse Arkham Knight Force haunt Kylo's ass in episode 9 is just so tragic||

[wispy lichen]

||yeah it doesn’t make sense but that was the vibe in the movie. He attacked the temple because Luke drew his saber ||

[silk solar]

So dumb

[wispy lichen]

Yeah

[silk solar]

I feel like that just isnt how people work lmao

[echo echo]

||To be fair Anakin goes from resisting Mace's extrajudicial execution of Sheev to murdering children in about two minutes of screen time so||

[silk solar]

||that was also bad writing||

[wispy lichen]

Best of all (Sequels) ||Rey gets to start the new Order unlike that dumb failure from the 80s Luke Skywalker /s ||

[golden flame]

||to be fair he had murdered children before||

||but also does anyone hold up the prequels as an example of good execution of anything ||

[wispy vortex]

||I just came out of a multi hour wookiepedia rabbit hole about the Yavin 4 academy||

It’s so much better than canon

[wispy lichen]

Legends my love…

[echo echo]

||I more mean the precedent exists||

[wispy lichen]

When I tell you Legends has some of the best philosophical works of art on the force ever…

[silk solar]

Top 5 issues with the ST

||1. Scene writing and basic script stuff
2. Blowing up the republic
3. No new villains? That dont blow? Phasma stinks. Snoke is a meme. Like what
4. Inconsistency between 8 and 9. Pick one
5. No plan for finn whatsoever||

[autumn hemlock]

||Turn-of-the-millenium CGI! It was a triumph at that!||

[wispy lichen]

||taking Brienne of Tarth and ruining her sucks btw||

||like wtf||

[echo echo]

5. No plan whatsoever

[autumn hemlock]

||I still think Finn should've been contagious with The Force||

[silk solar]

||i was really shocked when i watched ep 8 and saw her go out like that. I dont think finn cared||

[silk solar]

Contained in 4 and 5

[echo echo]

Honestly,

1. No plan whatsoever
2. No plan whatsoever
3. No plan whatsoever
4. No plan whatsoever
5. No plan whatsoever

[wispy lichen]

You’re Disney. You make the posters for E7.(Sequels) ||You give the black male lead a lightsaber. You remove him from Chinese posters. He does nothing in the next movies ||

[wispy lichen]

this should be brought up more

Ridiculous

E8 could have had ||Rey and Finn training together!||

[silk solar]

Oh yeah the poster drama

st ||make finn a natural dark side user or something idk, spice it up||

[wispy lichen]

My biggest ST problem is ||ruining the legacy of one of my favorite fictional characters ||

[echo echo]

Both the Marvel and Star Wars sides of the Disney house seem really weirdly resistant to centrally organizing the stories they're trying to tell and they're shocked when no one grabs on to anything they're throwing out there

[silk solar]

||also weird him being a stormtrooper is absent completely in ep 8||

[wispy lichen]

ST ||Finn was a test run for the cloning of Palpatine and the force sensitive injections into DNA they had been experimenting on||

[silk solar]

It feels like they throw a darboard at the timeline and then just write a show set then

[wispy vortex]

I hate this

[echo echo]

I think it is more that they want the audience to tell them what story they want to be told

[wispy vortex]

||Just make him force sensitive like normal||

[silk solar]

||i dont think any version of the ST that is good keeps palpatine||

[echo echo]

Baby Yoda becomes a meme? Have a decade of Baby Yoda, unchanging

[wispy lichen]

||I agree but if we’re working with what we have ||

[silk solar]

||was making kylo a villain so hard||

[wispy lichen]

ST || also Rey just sucks ass as a character ||

[echo echo]

Solo bombs? Sequel trilogy falls apart? Never mention them again

[silk solar]

||it really ruins the temptation of the dark side if everyone who gets tempted there comes back||

[wispy lichen]

||it also ruins the dark side if a guy with the mind of a toddler is their poster boy||

[silk solar]

Star War’s obsession with filling in every hole and expanding on every idea perpetually makes the universe feel smaller and less interesting, which is bonkers for a story based on a trilogy that was really good at creating space beyond the frame

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/adam-driver-snl-kylo-ren-thumbs-up-okay-gif-16158853

[wispy lichen]

Somehow Legends feels fine

[silk solar]

M and G does this several times and it makes me irrationally upset

[echo echo]

||REY I NEED TO TELL YOU SOMETHING||

[wispy lichen]

And Legends did this too

[silk solar]

Like why would you bring that up

[echo echo]

Mandalorian has always been full of deep cuts

[silk solar]

Because i assume legends adds more than it ends

[echo echo]

That's not new

[wispy lichen]

I do notice even reading Canon novels vs Legends novels ||canon authors feel like this is their job while Legends authors feel like they love Star Wars lore ||

[silk solar]

Like the general vibe i get of mara jade’s character is more additive than anything in the st

[wispy lichen]

||Canon just doesn’t link up with other lore while Legends is ALL links. It’s all connected. ||

[autumn hemlock]

I think it's just part of what you can get away with using text as a medium, but in Legends, when they do a random callback to a core plot feature from 5 books ago, it feels like it's recovering a lost thread, rather than it's drawing everything closer together

[silk solar]

They also have several really distracting cameos

[wispy lichen]

I think it’s also continuing the thread vs random pointless cameo

[wispy vortex]

There’s a few exceptions, like Zahn and Gray

[silk solar]

But not in universe ones

[autumn hemlock]

And as such it's almost discovering space in the lore rather than making the Galaxy smaller

[wispy lichen]

Zahn and Gray are the only canon authors I extremely like LOL

[wispy vortex]

I need to read Lost Stars by Claudia Gray, apparently its amazing

[wispy lichen]

And Zahn kinda shouldn’t count

[wispy vortex]

It’s a true Star Wars romance book

[wispy lichen]

It’s amazing

Great book

They announced a SW tiktok style romance book as “the first SW canon romance novel” like cmon whaaaaaaaat

Lost Stars is right there

[silk solar]

Like look and thrawn. A super competent military general. Star wars before then didnt emphasize military tactics, and so that character adds a dimension that sw can move in to

Whereas most Disney era stuff doesnt generate new concepts

[wispy lichen]

XWing books also move even more into military stuff

[silk solar]

||Rey, at best, was going to be a luke 2||

[wispy vortex]

I love when Star Wars books try out new genres. Like Death Troopers

[autumn hemlock]

Legends ||Nah, that's Luuke||

[echo echo]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-cassian-andor-andor-smirk-pleased-gif-667447246046561056

[silk solar]

I have to add “i dont consider andor star wars and will not elaborate” to my bio dont i

😔

[echo echo]

Andor is in many ways the most Star Wars

[wispy vortex]

But there wasn’t a single star war in it?

[silk solar]

It is done

[autumn hemlock]

To be fair, as far as using old concepts goes, Disney's kinda stuck. According to the fandom, if they do use old concepts, it's copying something better, and if they don't, they're abandoning greatness.

[wispy lichen]

I think… Andor is its own thing separate and so doesn’t exactly create a new thing to elaborate on or work nicely with other stories?

[wispy vortex]

Rogue One?

[wispy lichen]

True it does work well with RO

[cedar osprey]

Cavan Scott erasure

The Dooku book is great

[echo echo]

The Andor->RO->OT pipeline is unmatched peak Star Wars

[wispy vortex]

I couldnt get through the Dooku book, it was awful

[echo echo]

Andor makes the OT better

[wispy lichen]

The Dooku book feels very insulated and, again, more like a job than a passion project

[silk solar]

Im not sure i agree with the second sentiment. Mando for its flaws was well received and did admittedly add some new ideas, although these ideas are people realizing no one these days has seen westerns, and the acolyte is so disjoint from main continuity it is hard to judge

[cedar osprey]

I love Lost Stars but Master & Apprentice is my favorite Claudia Gray book

Just amazing stuff

[wispy lichen]

I think it is partially when they generate new things they also end it or kill it off instead of building on it

[silk solar]

Or run it into the ground

[echo echo]

Someone said relatively recently (I think it might have been Grey?) that Andor is just a good mental replacement for the prequels and I absolutely stand by that

[silk solar]

It is weird bc m and g is not tonally similar at all to the 1 mandalorian episode i watched

Tonal rigidity is probably another macro problem

But i feel like all franchises are suffering from that

[echo echo]

Luke as the spearhead of a movement rejecting imperialism which was launched by people he never knew and who never knew him (but which we the audience do) is actually a substantially more compelling story to me than it was before

[silk solar]

Ep 4 does do a good job establishing that the rebellion has a long history

One of the subtle writing things that movie does very well

||luke gets the victory at the end but he does feel like a small part||

In a sense

||this was completely absent from the sequels btw||

[echo echo]

||The right man in the right place doing the right thing||

[silk solar]

||someone else could have fired the torpedo||

[wispy lichen]

Hm I think we could REALLY see more about the Rebellion as an institution than individual Rebels in future projects and it could be interesting

Like those new novels about Mothma, Organa, and Saw

Because Andor was a tighter focus

[echo echo]

Getting to see the people who held the torch of rebellion and passed it along (often without hope of anything more than getting the torch passed to anyone at all) before Luke had it is a lot more important buildup to me, it turns out, than Darth Vader's tragic backstory

[silk solar]

while i think the original trilogy is a very simple story, it does get a lot of credit from me for avoiding a lot of the obvious pitfalls of that story that many of its imitators run right into

[wispy lichen]

I think it depends why you’re watching SW tbh

[echo echo]

That's true and I think it is also an issue of execution to some degree

[silk solar]

||i think it is because luke does not think about himself as being the most important person in the galaxy, so it is weird the narrative treats him like that outside the trilogy||

[wispy lichen]

Like I love the central familial drama and think that is the core of the story to me but others are in SW for other reasons

[echo echo]

There's an interesting version of Anakin Skywalker and his semi-outsider objections to the Jedi and how they do business, but we didn't get it

[wispy lichen]

I also just adore the prequels

1-3 are very important to me

[echo echo]

There's a version of Phantom Menace where they skip Jake Lloyd altogether and instead have a young-but-less-young Hayden Christiansen who has the presence of mind to note practices and ideas of Obi-wan's and Qui-gon's that are self-defeating and/or note their breaks with tradition and he just has something to say about it all but we never get anything from him except madge

Madge with a layer of hot shot

[silk solar]

Also what lucas wanted in the prequels was very stylistically confused imo

Anakin was the most prominent victim of that

[echo echo]

He wanted an Iliad to go with his Odyssey

Sing O Muses of the rage of Anakin

[silk solar]

I get why, but there are so many reasons why that doesnt work

The story of anakin is fundamentally incompatible with the style of the iliad

[echo echo]

I don't think it had to be

[silk solar]

And with no one playing the role of the gods it just breaks down

[echo echo]

I think an Anakin who's less prideful but more thoughtful and more openly frustrated with the problems and contradiction of the Jedi Order as it is already presented makes a substantially more compelling PT

[silk solar]

I also think it is really hard to communicate importance in film

[silk solar]

Yeah this is just a straight improvement

In a novel you can elevate language. Writing the prequels in a shakespearen style probably works very well

Cant film that as easily

[echo echo]

"Why are you making me (and eventually my apprentice) child soldiers"
"What do you mean I can't get married" (have him marry openly and in defiance of the Council)
"What do you mean I can't rescue my mother from slavery, by the sword if necessary"
"Do we serve the Republic or do we work for Senators?"
Etc

[silk solar]

Especially if obi wan is established to a more forward thinking jedi

[cedar osprey]

I will always say that the Revenge of the Sith novel is head and shoulders above the movie IMO

[silk solar]

Which he basically is

[wispy lichen]

RotS novel is a masterpiece

[wispy vortex]

resists rant

[wispy lichen]

(He isn’t)

[wispy lichen]

Same

[wispy vortex]

For opposite reasons

[echo echo]

I actually like the direction of Obi-wan as a traditionalist who tries to be forward thinking as an homage to his deceased master

[wispy lichen]

Mine are more general Prequels rant yours is about the novel LOL

[cedar osprey]

Movies like a 7-8/10 for me, novel is a 10/10

[wispy lichen]

1 and 2 are 8/10, 3 is 10/10 for me

[silk solar]

Obi wan’s arc is also a bit of a mess in the prequels

[cedar osprey]

I’m definitely not as high on the 1st two prequels

[silk solar]

||in large part bc the grievous fight is forced||

[echo echo]

I think putting Obi-wan basically as is with Anakin as I've pitched him (reluctantly going along with Anakin's increasingly radical ideals in a vain attempt to try and live up to Qui-gon's way of thinking which he fundamentally does not share) is a potentially fascinating dynamic

[wispy lichen]

Obi Wan (SW gen) ||is not all that progressive. In fact, his reliance on old ways of thinking and constant deference to the Council is the tragedy of his character when mirrored against Anakin’s. That is why Qui Gon’s death matters so much: Anakin loses the potential master that might have understood him and helped him in the ways he needed to||

[echo echo]

I think changing Anakin in this way rescues a lot of what doesn't work about the PT with the minimum changes to plot beats

[wispy vortex]

||Remember, Obi Wan also lost him. He wasn’t ready to take an apprentice, he still needed Qui Gon||

[silk solar]

It also clarifies what the council is actually doing wrong

[cedar osprey]

I’m also not high on a lot of Star Wars in general I fear, the Original Trilogy is a straight up masterpiece and Episode 4 is one of my favorite movies of all time but beyond that a lot of the stuff beyond Andor just ranges from good to just ok

[wispy lichen]

OT is all 10/10

[cedar osprey]

I don’t trust ROTJ haters

If you hate ROTJ I don’t trust you

[wispy lichen]

NJO is a 9/10 but my favorite media ever

And Prequels I’d rate at about a 8/10 overall

[silk solar]

I havent rewatched enough star wars recently since i started scoring

Ep 8 was a 3

I wont say my m and g score bc its mean

[echo echo]

SpaceDuck Prequel Rewatch Arc when

[cedar osprey]

I might do a SW rewatch after I do my Spider-Man movies rewatch

[silk solar]

Do you want this to happen?

[golden flame]

this conversation has been very positive, after all

[silk solar]

I will drop reviews

[wispy lichen]

I’m just sitting in my corner with my PT love

https://tenor.com/view/zeta-gundam-kamille-bidan-anime-gif-20645061

[silk solar]

I should write a more in depth m and g thing and send it

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/youngling-scared-startled-anakin-star-wars-gif-4939428501246661288

[echo echo]

I mean I think the PT is, as they say, so close to greatness

[silk solar]

I dont think the PT are good films, but i see what people like about them

[wispy lichen]

I think opinions on the PT largely depend on when you watched them and your expectations going into them

[echo echo]

But the ways in which it falls short are significant

[silk solar]

Ok ep 3 is probably straight up good

[wispy vortex]

Yeah definitely

[echo echo]

This is why we need the SpaceDuck Prequel Rewatch Arc (much of ep3 is not good)

[silk solar]

Im also working off memory from high school

lmao

[wispy lichen]

A lot (not all) of dislike for the prequels that I see stems from expectations of people who started out with only the OT

[silk solar]

I def need to watch Solo

I just havent seen that and no little about it

And then i think ive seen every movie?

[golden flame]

my problem with OT is ultimately just that I have a hard time watching older movies no matter how great they are 😔

just don't watch enough of them to get used to the ways they feel different from modern ones, I think
(this also affected my viewing experience of Blade Runner and Matrix)

[wispy lichen]

But what can I say my mom loves the prequels too and she was watching the OT in theaters as a kid haha

[cedar osprey]

TBF I think starting out with Original Trilogy is the ONLY way to go IMO

[echo echo]

Solo isn't bad but it is deeply uninspired

The most paint by numbers Star Wars story that exists almost

[silk solar]

Watching older movies, i do think there are things they just straight up do better

[wispy lichen]

E3 is my mom’s fav SW movie

[golden flame]

KotOR is really the "main" Star Wars in my head since it's the version I consumed either first or close to it

[wispy lichen]

Based based based

[wispy vortex]

I was introduced to Star Wars by aa family friend who is an ultra nerd who loved all the movies and showed me the original VHS editions. One of my favorite people

[silk solar]

I am most likely to rewatch 3

[wispy lichen]

Read the novel

[silk solar]

Idk if i can take the anakin padme scenes seriously

[wispy vortex]

Watch the movie

[wispy lichen]

I’m obligated to mention Bean dislikes the novel

[silk solar]

I think my opinion to score conversion is different than most people

[echo echo]

One of my very earliest memories is going to watch a theatrical rerelase of Empire Strikes Back and missing one of the Boba Fett cameos (I think I dropped some popcorn?) and being very upset

[silk solar]

Lmao

[golden flame]

actually technically my first exposure to Star Wars might've been the reference to it in Toy Story

[silk solar]

This is so funny to me

[wispy lichen]

I disagree but I started out with all 6 growing up so that’s where I come from

[golden flame]

but I didn't know it was a reference at the time

[wispy vortex]

I don’t like the characterizations!

[echo echo]

Might be the only human who likes Star Wars and dislikes the RotS novelization

[silk solar]

Did not know that was possible tbh

[wispy lichen]

Stover is a good writer what can I say

[silk solar]

Its like finding a radiohead fan that hates ok computer

I will probably watch some more star wars just to get it off my list

[wispy vortex]

There’s still Radiohead fans?

[wispy lichen]

Still think about Merphy Napier becoming a Star Wars fan because of the RotS novel

[golden flame]

Bean and MonkeyGirl have to have something to fight over as they otherwise stand back to back promoting NJO

[silk solar]

Episode by episode review of ashoka is more likely than prequel rewatch

[wispy lichen]

So funny

[wispy lichen]

We cordially disagree.

[wispy vortex]

Don’t worry, there will be plenty to fight over once you get to LotF

[wispy lichen]

She’s like 10 books in now 😭

[cedar osprey]

I feel like literally everyone I’ve met who started with Prequel Trilogy just got turned off Star Wars immediately

[wispy lichen]

Darth bane, Plagueis, Shatterpoint, Lost Stars, Master and Apprentice, all novelizations are all on her TBR or Read

[cedar osprey]

I grew up with Original Trilogy

[autumn hemlock]

Solo did a sick 270 speeder drift and parked it perfectly in Mid.

In a more Star Wars-centric timeline, Solo is why mid became a popular term

[silk solar]

Solo as a movie is just a mid idea

Why did we need that

[wispy lichen]

Because we aren’t in the timeline without the live action NJO adaption

[silk solar]

I will plant my flag in the ground

De canonizing legends was the correct choice

Absolutely necessary

Everything after, less defendable

[wispy vortex]

The only good part of Solo was Donald Glover as Lando

He was pitch perfect

[autumn hemlock]

Solo had a neat idea or two that I've remembered

[echo echo]

There's no way forward where Legends isn't decanonized, but they took the first step and then did ye olde stick a stick in the spoke

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-lando-calrissian-everything-youve-heard-about-me-is-true-donald-glover-solo-a-star-wars-story-gif-26666707

[autumn hemlock]

Solo ||Like the psychic alien orphan gang boss.||

[wispy vortex]

Just release legends movies under the legends banner 😭

Or just sell it

[silk solar]

It was going to happen anyways so just rip off the band aid. The mistake is not looking at what legends did narratively that worked and copying it

Completely cutting the warlords period is baffling to me

[wispy vortex]

Exactly

[echo echo]

Admittedly they tried

They just misidentified what worked

[wispy vortex]

Resetting back to status quo at ANH was an insane decision

[echo echo]

Regularly, and catastrophically

[silk solar]

I mean ive tried to date hailee steinfield, who cares about tried

[autumn hemlock]

I'll defend TFA as a first step. If any fandom ever is anything to go by, it's important that a new owner is able to do the things the old owner could do. It's everything after and surrounding it that fell apart.

[silk solar]

• yoda

[echo echo]

I was about to say lmao

[echo echo]

TFA became less defensible as it became clearer that they had no plan

[wispy vortex]

You’re Shameik Moore?

[silk solar]

I feel like warring states is perfect for D+ series and the transition out of that should have been the sequel trilogy

[silk solar]

Honest to god i think abrams just cranked out a script having just watched the 6 numbered movies

[echo echo]

I was moderately bullish on TFA which I never thought was good but also only ever mid in that I think showing the Star Wars audience that you understand the fundamentals was an important step, especially in the wake of the prequels

[silk solar]

That was a popular view at the time

[autumn hemlock]

Oh man, Romance of the Three Star Kingdoms, featuring Obi-Wei Kenobi, Wuke Skywalker, and Shuuv Palpatine

[wispy vortex]

I thought TFA copied ANH far too closely

It was safe, boring, and tired

Did nothing new

[echo echo]

What it actually showed, and this is an admittedly fine distinction, is that it could mimic a specific dance but did not understand the moves or why they were made

[silk solar]

The ST scripts are

7: plagiarism
8: incoherent
9: insulting

[silk solar]

Jj abrams does in fact have the ability to write out a plot outline of ANH and change some names

It is unlucky star wars was getting up and running right before the mystery box bubble burst

[echo echo]

In fairness, "properly" aping ANH is more than a script

[silk solar]

People still thought sherlock was good at the time

[silk solar]

If TFA was a proper homage it would be viewed better in retrospect imo

Starkiller base is just a non starter idea

For so many reasons

And a real misunderstanding of how to elevate stakes in a story

[echo echo]

Maybe, but a lot of the reasons it hasn't aged well is because what followed exposed cracks in the foundation

Exposed and amplified

[silk solar]

TFA narratively kicked the can down the road in an irresponsible way

[echo echo]

For what its worth I don't know that there are any real good options for Luke given the handoff of him being on that island in hermitage

[silk solar]

Esp bc rian johnsin made some reasonable calls they immediately backtracked on

As well as some unreasonable ones

[silk solar]

I was about to type this out

[wispy vortex]

||They destroyed a bunch of planets that were apparently the New Republic, but who tf knows that because how would we??||

[golden flame]

undoing the original trilogy wasn't an awesome first step for the new canon tbf, even if the movie was fine as a film

[silk solar]

How could the first step have been worse

[silk solar]

||its not even clear in the film who they are!||

insanity

New hope didnt mess that up

[wispy vortex]

||They didn’t even have the balls to destroy coruscant||

[silk solar]

||Wait that wasnt coruscant||

[echo echo]

||"Hosnian Prime", apparently||

[silk solar]

Im lowering my mental score of TFA by a point

[wispy vortex]

||Nope! It was a planet called Hosnian Prime where they moved the capital so JJ didn’t have to destroy Coruscant||

[silk solar]

That is unacceptable writing

Like im sorry what

[wispy vortex]

||Coruscant, the capital of the galaxy for tens of thousands of years, doesn’t show up once in the sequels||