Star Wars

[wispy lichen]

Yea I agree

I get resetting the timeline because it is messy

[echo echo]

Defaulting to Splinter of the Mind's Eye of all books in the thumbnail for general EU is a wild choice

[autumn hemlock]

||New bad headcanon: The first time, it was Shak Ti, the second was Shaak Ti, the third Shaaak Ti. Somewhere in the Legends Galaxy, Shaaaak Ti is wandering around, waiting for a scene where a Jedi dies as an afterthought.||

[broken smelt]

Yeah this is especially true of post-OT Legends that was written before the PT. Vague Jedi Order info Legends ||As books were written during and after the PT started coming out (taking place post-OT) we start to see a sharp turn to rebuilding the Jedi to resemble what they were in that era. Rather than the direction it had been going (which wasn't always clear to be fair). Which in some ways makes the canon feel more coherent, but also I found kind of disappointing at the time because I wanted Luke to do something new other than "oh yeah, we can marry now"||

[supple star]

I finished I, Jedi, loved it ||Corran going undercover and hunting the pirates was a lot of fun. The Jennasaari were also pretty cool and I always enjoy a new force sect. The idea of a group being trained by Dark Jedi, but not really going to the dark side themselves because they lost their teachers before they were corrupted is an awesome idea. Does anyone know if there is a book or comic that goes more into this group, cause there should be.||

Anyway starting Wraith Squadron.

WS 1 ||Oof that is awful, feel really bad for Donos here||

WS 2 ||Hah, Ackbar’s bet. He wins either way.||

WG 3 ||Falynn has a very reasonable cause for attitude, as that would get annoying real quick.||

||Jerk move by the second pilot.||

[dense lance]

I wish

[upper tangle]

Oh, well that's fun.
88 Pictures about to be answering a whole lotta questions.
https://vxtwitter.com/CorleoneFilmz/status/1991419972636344664?t=19Tm_c92T_n9q6j6wDKexA&s=19

Filmz (@CorleoneFilmz)

Disney have been accused of blatantly plagiarising this fans fight choreography!

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Nov 20, 2025, 8:14 AM

[echo echo]

It isn't quite the same thing, but Kenobi also laundered quite a bit from Jedi Fallen Order in a way I thought was really weird

[copper kite]

https://www.tumblr.com/forcewound/800853716907573248

there is only you.

-# #oh who is you

Tumblr · Nov 21, 2025, 7:33 PM

[golden flame]

Wookiepedia is the peak of humanity's accomplishments

[dry herald]

Andor 2x10 + rogue one ||Yeah, i very mich dont agree with luthen killing Lonni here. But I guess it works with the themes of rogue one. As him doing that didnt end up making it so he wasnt found. Still, sad end for him. But expected, as he wasnt around in rogue one.

Also cool seeing kleya's backstory with him. Shes really cool||

||I guess, by themes of rogue one i mean the concept in it of having the right cause not being enough, but also needing to do the right things and not become like what youre fighting||

[unkempt sail]

Wraith Squadron 3 ||an ewok pilot would be really funny though||

my husband picked up some of the essential guides on thriftbooks since I'm going through the EU because he loved them as a kid, and thinks they'd be useful as contemporary references

[unkempt sail]

WS 4, very slight Eye of the World ||Voort initially gave me "Narg Smart" vibes but after the training sim, I really love that the nerd doing extra calculations and knowing all the regulations is a Gamorrean||

[supple star]

Yeah, I am really liking him as well.

[wispy lichen]

I’m finally less busy so time to catch up 🔥

[wispy vortex]

I love the wraiths, youre gonna have a great time

[echo echo]

https://youtu.be/RP3S05vPIMU

Byf is a Destiny lore guy who feels obligated to do a Star Wars lore primer for the like three people who both still play Destiny and don't have any Star Wars knowledge, since they're doing a Star Wars crossover in a few weeks

[supple star]

WS 20 ||Donos’ losing Shiner makes me so sad. This guy is not doing well.||

[wispy vortex]

||Saddest death in Star Wars 😔 ||

[supple star]

WS 20 ||Well fortunately after the talk the rest of the wraiths had with him things are going a lot better. But woof how they snapped him out of being basically catatonic was harsh.||

||And they were kind of rude about Shiner, saying that he was only kinda the last Talon. Blanant Droidism.||

||No wonder Sqeaky is so rude||

[wispy vortex]

Do I splurge
https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/home-one-starcruiser-75405

[topaz cliff]

I have that one, it's pretty neat

[dry herald]

Just finished s2 of andor. so good

andor all ||Definitely ties very well into rogue one, I want to go see that. And I am glad that kleya is able to get support and a peaceful ending there, even though she's not in any situation to keep up the fight. Also, very fitting ends to partagaz and dedra. But yeah, just was such a good feeling seeing all of the characters in the lsat few minutes. Was also cool hearing Nemik's manifesto playing near the end, and how it had gotten out. ||

||also, k2s0 is still best boi. "Are you with us?" "No." kills him||

[wispy lichen]

<@&1396936875054203020> today is our official day we move onto the second Wraith Squadron book! Iron Fist by Aaron Allston. Our next book will be the next Wraith Squadron book: Solo Command.

[unkempt sail]

ahhhh I'm still halfway through WS; I kind of fell into a becky chambers binge during the week

[wispy lichen]

(I’m on the Bacta War lol)

[wispy vortex]

Gotta catch up!

[supple star]

I finished WS, now taking a break to read Red Rising.

[topaz cliff]

I rewatched the Mortis arc of clone wars today. It was way weirder than I remembered

[golden flame]

Still peak tho

[dense lance]

Cool Force symbols too

[broken smelt]

Yeah when George & team decided to go weird they didn't hold back

I wouldn't want all Star Wars like that, but I enjoy it when it happens

[dense lance]

it also had a bizarre line about how a world with only the light side would be just as bad as a world of only the dark side

https://tenor.com/view/lionel-hutz-world-without-lawyers-gif-11914569

"Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it"

[wispy vortex]

https://youtu.be/1C_OD_seG9M?si=a2gT50GZCR7WuEBz

[unkempt sail]

WS 25 || I have a bad feeling about this glass prowler insect Grinder just dropped into Face's x-wing||

[unkempt sail]

finished Wraith Squadron- was a little skeptical about Wedge assembling a new team, ||but I did really enjoy the squadron dynamics. I was very surprised at the high rate of death among characters, though, and it did feel earned.||

I have Iron Fist from my library pile and it looks like it's shorter!

[wispy vortex]

||Even the Rogues had a high rate of death||

[cedar osprey]

Holy crap, this is actually such a win https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1997029087039443359?s=46

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm)

A newly restored version of the original version of ‘STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE’ will be released in theaters on February 19, 2027

(Source: https://t.co/FPybku1Bc5)

X · Dec 5, 2025, 7:43 PM

[wintry lark]

50th anniversary?

[wispy vortex]

I’m sure it’ll be good the 4th time around.

[autumn hemlock]

"Newly Restored"

Make sure to count their fingers

[wispy lichen]

New art drop from New Jedi Order (artist who did lots of Legends art)

[wintry lark]

No upscaling technology has problems with fingers

[echo echo]

https://tenor.com/view/again-seth-meyers-late-night-with-seth-meyers-really-not-again-gif-20030833

[wispy vortex]

Iron Fist 13 ||It does annoy me that he keeps forgetting they aren’t flying X wings and don’t have hyperdrives||

[unkempt sail]

XWing 1-4 ||true! But then Gavin, Bror, and Corran all had fake outs lol||

[wispy lichen]

Gaming leak

[wispy vortex]

Oooo

Exciting

Probably gonna be terrible though

[wispy lichen]

I think THR is meant to be a gilded age, like a rise from the grime and darkness of the past as the Jedi Order has reason to it’s prime, but as it falls apart leading into the Prequels, it falls back into the dark aesthetic of times past

[wispy vortex]

Yeah exactly

[lavish flame]

The implication I got was that tech has been progressing in the canon while tech is very stagnant for legends though.

Iirc there's not just the difference in vibes, it's also a matter of them having genuinely less technology than civil war era.

[wispy lichen]

That’s partially because of the intentional degradation of technology by the empire to make planets more reliant on them (see the way tech regresses post Prequels). But also tech hits a bit of a ceiling. There is less area to improve.

[lavish flame]

I mean, the high republic era visually looks a bit more analog.

[golden flame]

from an article on the filings in the lawsuit against Aspyr for the KOTOR II Restored Content Mod DLC falling through:

In some of the filings, names or whole passages are redacted; many documents were sealed. In others, fascinating facts from inside the game industry are discussed freely. KOTOR II on Steam sold at 75% of the rate of KOTOR I, according to Aspyr’s records, for example. And a mystery project codenamed Juliet is described as a full, modern remake of KOTOR II, that is/was in development alongside the previously reported remake of KOTOR I, at least as recently as March.

unfortunately the rest of the article (which is mostly about the RCM story) is behind a paywall and I'm not sure where to find the actual stuff they reference

so not sure what specifically was said or if there were any signs of what "in development" means

[golden flame]

ah, found the actual documents
doesn't contain a lot since it's not the focus, but this one mentions on page 264 that:

• Juliet = K2 remake
• Aspyr was on that project as well as the K1 remake, but both got transferred to Mad Head Games (one of the Saber-owned studios) - I believe this is the first we've heard of the latter's involvement rather than just Saber generally?
• They wanted to remake the RCM content as part of Juliet
• As of when the deposition happened (filed in March), Juliet is still on the roadmap
  (I am not looking through ~150 other documents to see if there are any other mentions, but I can't see it being relevant anywhere else?)

heh
from Mad Head's website:

[topaz cliff]

Apparently Walter Murch (famous sound designer of The Conversation and Apocalypse Now, among other things) directed the clone wars episode The General (second episode of umbara arc)
Idk I thought that was neat

[wispy lichen]

I’m not surprised Disney was to blame after all lol

[lavish flame]

To blame? For what?

[wispy lichen]

The article says Aspyr has the RCM ready for the Kotor 2 port, but Disney blocked it

Years ago when the port happened there was a big announcement it would include the RCM

Bigger tho is KOTOR 2 might get remade ad well as KOTOR 1

[lavish flame]

Ohhh.

[wispy lichen]

Which is hype

[lavish flame]

I'd assume that depends on sales.

But Kotor 1 remake should sell really well.

[wispy lichen]

The article says it was in development alongside KOTOR 1 but I agree with you it probably will end up depending on sales if they devote full resources to that

[lavish flame]

Lmao they end up aiming for too quick of a release afterwards and end up cutting content.

I just hope it's not an oblivion style remake.

[wispy lichen]

I think it’s more ground up

[lavish flame]

I want an expansion, not just better graphics.

[wispy lichen]

Oblivion was more like a new skin

[lavish flame]

Yeah exactly.

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR needs more work. Different combat probably.

Oblivion: part of the charm was the jank

KOTOR is a masterpiece in spite of the jank

[lavish flame]

Different combat, different structure and hopefully an expanded storyline.

[wispy lichen]

I’m pro different combat, new graphics, new sound design, everything else the same.

[golden flame]

Basically, Aspyr had already signed an agreement with the lead developers of the RCM when they announced the DLC, but when Disney's lawyers looked over the situation more closely they weren't willing to approve it without signatures from all contributors, and since the current team members didn't actually have contact information for everyone this didn't work out
Aspyr tried to figure out alternatives like a mod portal that the RCM team could upload the mod to themselves, but that ultimately didn't get approved either
So it ended up getting dropped

[wintry lark]

I hope they go in the direction of making it more turn-based instead of making it more real-time, but I know they'll do the latter anyway

[lavish flame]

With saber it's probably going to be real time but I wouldn't mind something like BG3.

[wispy vortex]

Turn Kotor into BG3

[wispy lichen]

So real

[golden flame]

(And then for some reason some people who purchased the game decided to file a lawsuit over the DLC not releasing, which is how this information ended up getting out there)

[lavish flame]

Tbf i can't blame the lawyers for wanting to be sure. Mods are a weird legal situation. I'm more mad about the graphical update mod getting killed.

[wispy lichen]

Carth Onasi better constantly say I don’t want to talk about it.

[golden flame]

This lawsuit is a good example of why lawyers want to be absolutely 100% in the clear about these things 😅

[lavish flame]

My issue with this is that they may end up with like... Owlcat combat which i think would kill a lot of the audience.

[wispy lichen]

(Reminder we should be “soon” getting a game announcement ending in the Old Republic)

Likely at TGA

[lavish flame]

If they go for BG3 it better be BG3.

[lavish flame]

We all agreed it's "Jedi:4000 years ago was the old republic." Right?

[golden flame]

They've been in court for more than two and a half years because they made an overeager claim at the end of a trailer and despite trying to the best of their ability it didn't work out

[wispy lichen]

I kinda feel bad for them

I never refunded my game

But they did give out refunds

[lavish flame]

They weren't careful enough not to choke on their Aspyrations.

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/vader-gif-26958467

[lavish flame]

My big hope is that it's a true modern good bioware game.

And they take ideas from mass effect and whatnot.

Not literally a bioware game, but the core idea of one.

Because I'm not sure how much nostalgia will carry modern audiences who haven't played the original through places like Taris.

[golden flame]

also, Reddit comment from a TSLRCM lead dev under a post about the article:

As a person heavily quoted in the original Stephen Totilo's article, I'll add that Aspyr has been a pleasure to work with ever since the steam workshop update ten years ago. I never expected them to go as far as to make a backdoor for us to make it possible to install mods on iOS and go through effort of fighting lawyers to get this thing on Switch. I don't totally know why they were always so interested in our work on the restored content mod, but I always appreciated their effort.

In hindsight, maybe we were all overly optimistic about this DLC but around the time the Switch trailer came out, I already signed a contract with Aspyr, I ran through the game to try to get parts of the mod up to a more official standard and it felt like we were going to get this over the finish line. I was super excited about it.

As a fun fact, the only big change there was going to be between PC and Switch versions of TSLRCM was that Kaevee was gonna be a Twi'lek on Switch. Being unable to contact the original VA was a good excuse to remove her bad VO altogether.

I wish things ended differently.

Anyway the original article was a great read and I wish it wasn't paywalled.

[lavish flame]

Seems like a bad situation all around.

I hope Kotor 1 is a big enough hit that they make 2 and eventually even a proper 3.

[wispy lichen]

You are drinking the same copium as me

[wispy vortex]

I think youre supposed to smoke it

[lavish flame]

It's not impossible(huffs copium).

[lavish flame]

Not when it's this strong.

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||imagine a proper ending like we dreamed KOTOR 3 would be with the journey into the Sith Empire to discover more about why Revan fell||

https://tenor.com/view/copium-gif-25837101

[lavish flame]

Kotor is an iconic series and saber are good devs who care about the source material in my experience.

[wispy lichen]

If KOTOR 2 releases as a remake, my life’s dreams will be complete

Literally my favorite game and it means so much to me

[lavish flame]

||Nah, all we can do is hype up about how even Nhilus was only approaching the true/old sith and then make them all kinda meh.||

||In Swtor.||

Hell, I'd love even DLC for these games.

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||ugh that one conversation with Kreia where she says “Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."||

[lavish flame]

Like a ||Pre fall Revan and Alek DLC fighting mandalorians would be so good.||

[wispy vortex]

I just want a good book series covering the games

[wispy lichen]

SWTOR ruined this but DAMN if I don’t dream of a canon KOTOR 3 fixing it

[lavish flame]

Maybe not a canon but since legends is decanonised already who cares, make a separate legends timeline. Why not.

Like here's the Swtor legends timeline and here's the Kotor 3 legends timeline.

[wispy lichen]

Idc how we get it if we get it

[lavish flame]

Canon makes me worried lmao.

[wispy vortex]

Please please someone win the lottery and buy Legends

[wispy lichen]

Canon is untouched and can fully transplant stuff

If they want to

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2] ||Tbf, I expect that if KOTOR 3 actually got made they would run into some challenges living up to that hype as well
It's one thing to say that vague idea, it's another to actually execute it in-game, and the past 20+ years of fandom imagination would make it harder||

[lavish flame]

I think they'd like, constantly reference the sequels somehow.

They shove Snoke bodies everywhere.

"Ah yeah palpatine was around back then. He's the true sith."

[wispy lichen]

Doubt it

[lavish flame]

"Look, here's a snoke body."

[wispy lichen]

Fully doubt it

Look at Acolyte and High Republic

[lavish flame]

I prefer not to...

[wispy vortex]

Both are good

High Republic mainline books are excellent

[lavish flame]

I've tried both, and really disliked both honestly. Just not for me.

[wispy vortex]

For light and life!

[wispy lichen]

I read LotJ and it was great

[lavish flame]

Since mandalorian s2 I've only really liked Andor.

[wispy lichen]

But the bigger point is that it doesn’t reference future stuff much

[lavish flame]

The thrawn books are nice.

[golden flame]

I've heard Rebels has some Malachor stuff that would prevent bringing K2 in? I haven't actually watched through Rebels yet myself though so idk specifics

[lavish flame]

It does but it's not a major retcon.

[wispy vortex]

yeah

[lavish flame]

Basically it's still a place where a horrifying superweapon was used.

[golden flame]

Though I guess you could always say it's not Malachor V

[wispy lichen]

Yep

Also it works with KOTOR 2 even so

There are specific ways it can be the same place

[lavish flame]

But iirc it's just got people frozen in horror and metal instead.

[wispy lichen]

Yeah. It works as what Malachor V needs to be. Especially with just how much time passed for the planet to subtly change.

Like KOTOR 2 just says ||the mass shadow generator ruined the planet and killed a LOT of people|| which fits with what Rebels showed tbh

[lavish flame]

||Tbf it's not like they needed to really make Nhilus eat a planet in front of us to make him look cool. Old games could do a lot of telling and not showing as long as they did a bit of set dressing.||

In general i think the remakes are definitely legends though.

From older leaks and just the general ease of making them.

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2 + misc canon lore sources] ||Looking at Wookiepedia, it sounds like it was a Jedi-Sith war that ended with a giant petrification laser? Which is clearly an echo of K2, but in terms of the actual plot that's pretty different from the Mandalorian Wars ending with the MSG
Because the latter needs to happen before Revan's Sith turn in the first place||

||Part of the point of the MSG was to cause that turn, even||

[wispy lichen]

||I’d like to point out this could be a separate activation of the weapon from a future war||

||the weapon is there dormant||

[golden flame]

||Hm, I guess if you rewrite the ending so there's no longer the option to destroy Malachor V then that works, fair enough||

||I'd be sad to lose that, but it's an option you could take||

[golden flame]

but yeah hopefully it's just Legends so it doesn't have to do rewrites like that

[golden flame]

or does this ig

could say the Sith went to another planet in the system because of all the spooky bad vibes from V or something

[wispy lichen]

You could also say ||it’s a rebuilt / fixed MSG||

[lavish flame]

I swear this is not in rebels.

[wintry lark]

It would be great to have Canon versions, even if it necessitates major story revisions

[lavish flame]

Yeah I looked it up.

The big sources of it are...

Drum roll

[golden flame]

I assumed Rebels because it quotes characters that I vaguely have heard are Rebels people, but I could be wrong, I'm just going off the wiki info lol

[lavish flame]

Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary

And

Star Wars: The Secrets of the Sith

[wispy lichen]

I agree

[golden flame]

good to know, I'll adjust the tags then

[lavish flame]

They definitely go there in rebels.

But iirc rebels is very vague about the whole thing.

[golden flame]

gotcha

[wispy lichen]

Rebels ||says there was a war. There are Jedi there. Lots of dead bodies turning to dust. ||

||I don’t remember if we specifically see any sith bodies ||

||but it is a sith temple. Explicitly. ||

[wispy vortex]

Star Wars idk ||The Ruusan Reformation is canon right?||

[wispy lichen]

Star Wars all ||and there is a sith holocron called “the Presence” that tries to turn Ezra to the dark side. It activated the weapon. I have always thought it was Kreia’s holocron. ||

[golden flame]

||that part's fine at least, since Trayus Academy exists||

[lavish flame]

Rebels. ||I forgot this quote. Tano then remarks that "there is always a bit of truth in legends."||

[wispy vortex]

||I hate seeing her called Tano lmao||

[lavish flame]

I think there's still one inconsistency which is essentially that ||according to the wiki, Ahsoka says that many jedi attacked the sith temple.||

[golden flame]

also on the note of a hypothetical KOTOR 2 remake, Bao-Dur's voice is so soothing and I will be very sad if they can't/don't get his VA back if a remake happens

[wispy lichen]

They can also just ||say whatever and leave it to future sources to clean up canon inconsistencies ||

[lavish flame]

That is the star wars way, after all.

[lavish flame]

They'll have to find someone really good for kreia.

[golden flame]

also [minor KOTOR 1 spoilers] ||the Taris duel announcer is perfect and I will not tolerate a dueling ring without him 😤||

[wispy lichen]

||theEEE mysteRIOUS STRANGER STRIKES AGAIN||

[lavish flame]

||Daddy Duncan stays too.||

[golden flame]

||it's such a goofy nickname but I hope they keep it||

[wispy lichen]

||I also hope they keep the two lines the aliens say and add nothing else||

[wintry lark]

tbf they can get away with reusing dialogue. It's just that for main characters they'll probably want to add stuff

[golden flame]

nods mucha shaka paka

[wintry lark]

well, also there's the fact that the original audio quality sucks and so does a lot of the voice acting

[lavish flame]

Can we, umm, just get rid of tattooine from 1.

Please just get me anywhere else from that place.

[wispy lichen]

Noooo

Tatooine is my favorite

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2 + misc canon sources] ||"it's been four thousand years, some idiot historian wrote the wrong thing down"||

[wintry lark]

I can't imagine not having Korriban as a favorite

[lavish flame]

I was always partial to manaan.

It's unique for star wars.

[wispy lichen]

Okay thats fair

[lavish flame]

Kotor 2 ||Kreia just predicts this in that final scene with her.||

[wispy lichen]

But only ||if you do it as your last planet and tell everyone the thing that gets revealed ||

[lavish flame]

||Four thousand years later, Ahsoka tano will misrepresent the history of this place.||

[golden flame]

I hope Trask still breaks the fourth wall

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR 1 ||They're all my favourite, even Kashyyyk!||

[wispy lichen]

My name is Trask Ulgo of the Endar Spire

[autumn hemlock]

||Not Rakata Prime though||

[wispy lichen]

FOR THE REPUBLIC

[lavish flame]

Trask becomes the cyberpunk spoilers ||Jackie|| of the expanded 90 hour Kotor remake.

[golden flame]

watched a YouTuber who's done a few challenge runs of the game, and whenever Trask talks about turning the camera or anything he puts really dramatic filters over the screen and calls him an eldritch entity

[wispy lichen]

||I LOVE RAKATA PRIME||

ok I love every planet

[golden flame]

and that's greatly endeared me to an aspect of the game I never paid any attention to before

[lavish flame]

We get an 8 hour story of MC and Trask just fighting together in the war before the endar spire.

[wispy lichen]

I really hope (KOTOR) ||the game keeps the thing rhat freezes your screen and says “Carth looks like he wants to talk about something” and you go talk to Carth and he says “I don’t want to talk about it.”||

[lavish flame]

Making the endar spire really emotional.

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR 1 ||It might just be I didn't play Rakata Prime enough, but it's firmly cemented in my mind as too much walking between too easy fights. There was definitely the seed of something good there, but it could've used a little more time in the oven or a little trimming||

[lavish flame]

Carth is doing some calibrations.

[wispy lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-great-carth-gif-5190131

[golden flame]

||imagine they have a trailer at TGA, but when they're about to announce the release date it just cuts to this||

[lavish flame]

Carth is one of those guys who could never become a sith.

[wispy lichen]

I do largely want this to succeed so my true love gets a remake

[lavish flame]

Darth Carth just wouldn't work.

[lavish flame]

Everyone's favourite character, the disciple.

[wispy lichen]

||trailer at TGA announces a game that comes with both Remakes 🤡 ||

[wispy vortex]

Lord Darth Carth

[autumn hemlock]

Consider: Darth Carth the triple agent

[wispy lichen]

Carth is in the KOTOR comics

He’s pretty chill

[golden flame]

hey I like him :(
[KOTOR 2] ||he figures out Kreia's manipulations! that's pretty cool!
plus her running back and forth behind him whispering "betrayer" is hilarious||

[wispy vortex]

I predict it will be a Battlefront 2 Remaster with AI graphics

[lavish flame]

||He's a revan simp so he's literally just me.||

[wispy lichen]

The KOTOR comics do have this one really banger moment

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR general ||Pretends to turn to infiltrate and destroy the Sith, but falls truly when the job is done||

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 ||I adore how much Kreia hates Atton and it’s just because he’s actually really smart and a danger to her plans||

[golden flame]

I need to read those
my brain just doesn't usually mesh well with the format

[lavish flame]

||I as a kid always assumed my game was special because I assumed Nhilus' blind disciple was this disciple people kept saying was the other playable character and that I got both.||

[wispy vortex]

I can’t really do comic books

That’s why I want a book

[lavish flame]

||"Do you go", carth to himself.||

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 1] ||if Carth doesn't repeat his catchphrase while trying to shoot down the Lord of the Sith then what's even the point||

[lavish flame]

The worst case would be it's a canon remake but it's completely different.

[lavish flame]

||Imagine if malak screwed up and got shot.||

He'd be like... ||"revan, please, just tell them it was you, pleaseeee. And say that you said something cool before you did it."||

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR comics ||one Mandalorian steps up to try to prevent a genocide and is killed or smth like that. Revan picks up the mask of the dead Mandalorian who dared defy the Mandos. ||

[golden flame]

the fact Aspyr was talking about wanting to include the stuff from RCM in the K2 remake has me hopeful the gist of the games will be the same, but that was a while ago and who knows what direction Mad Head is taking

[lavish flame]

I think there's three separate stories for the mask lmao.

[wispy lichen]

This one is the best

I adore this one

[lavish flame]

Aspyr is not holding the reigns anymore though and we don't really know what disney wants out of this. If it's canon I'd assume they'd give input.

[lavish flame]

Agreed.

I never much liked the ||Mandalore's mask thing.||

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR all ||It wasn't a mask, Revan's face was just like that. The PC face is the result of intense cosmetic surgery during the healing/brainwashing process||

[golden flame]

indirectly reminds me, I should do another K1 playthrough soon and try BoSSR
I think I tried it before a whiiile ago but don't remember much about it, so would be a semi-fresh experience

[lavish flame]

Oh, speaking of rewrites, i hope they rewrite the ||state of the Jedi in Kotor 2.||

I think them being ||basically wiped out by the sith while everyone is like, "Haha, the sith? They don't exist!" Is a bit bad.||

[autumn hemlock]

I disagree, but see where you're coming from

[wispy lichen]

Here we go, KOTOR comics. Origin of a certain iconic appearance in full.

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2] ||I get what you're saying, but I don't think the game's tone would hit the same if they were still around in large numbers, and the light side ending with your crew becoming a new order that can do things differently is neat||

[lavish flame]

||Oh I don't want them to be around in large numbers or anything. I think it can just be explained significantly better.||

[golden flame]

ah gotcha

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR 2 ||One of the many points of KotOR 2 was that the anti-war Jedi were partly right, and going to war did destroy the order, but that continuing to do nothing wouldn't've helped.||

[golden flame]

||do you have any specific ideas, or just a general sense of "this doesn't make sense, there has to be a better way to frame it"?||

[autumn hemlock]

||Combined with the rest of the galaxy seeing it not as a Sith invasion, but the Jedi Civil War||

||And it is incredibly Sith to sign a peace treaty then sneak around disappearing or converting the leadership of the other side||

[lavish flame]

||After revan, the republic began to lose faith in the order and the council took the decision to let every Jedi find their own path till a new way to be could found. This led to a lot of jedi striking out and the sith preying on them, and many just disappeared and are trying to reconnect deeply with the force in other ways or just helping people in distant areas from where the story is taking place. But the institution itself? Gone. You can still even do the Nhilus taking out a big group thing by saying that a large amount of them tried to remake themselves into a new order away from the republic.||

It's not perfect by any means but would solve most of my problems.

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2] ||hm, maybe
I feel like the council being that... flexible? doesn't quite fit the other stuff the story does with them, but I can imagine there could be a way to make it work if the game fleshed it out more||

||hard to come up with perfect answers on the spot in a chatroom||

[lavish flame]

||Maybe the republic forces them out?||

||I can't imagine your average person was too happy about them not defending them in the mandalorian wars and then the ones that did turning to sith.||

[golden flame]

||or at least enough groups within the Republic turn against them that they're unofficially pushed out regardless of what the higher-ups say?||

||Bastila's still working with the Republic so probably not a formal thing, but I could see it being a public sentiment thing||

[lavish flame]

||Yeah, exactly. Like the pressures on them become too much, they have trouble operating on most worlds because a large amount of locals hate or mistrust them, etc.||

[golden flame]

||I like that general idea||

[lavish flame]

||It also then shows that the Jedi derive their legitimacy from their righteousness and the entire last decade was basically a failure of their ideals which reflected on them on a very grounded level.||

||It may require a few more jedi or ex jedi to make it work but these could make for fun side quests.||

||Like maybe you have an ex padawan just trying to help people. But on another hand you've got this old master who's lost it and fallen just because he thinks the galaxy should be grateful to them.||

[autumn hemlock]

KotOR 2 ||I'd be willing to accept a not-literally-all-of-the-jedi-are-dead state of the universe, but between the Mandelorian Wars, the low population distribution of the Jedi in general, the JCW, and sneaky sithses, I think any old-order Jedi we meet dying is the right call, with hints of whispers of some continuing to exist in the edges of society.||

KotOR 2 ||I think the real killing blow to the order as an order should be the Republic ceasing to fund them. Not charging them for failures or warcrimes, but walking away and watching as economic forces tear them apart. Afterall, property taxes on a large surface-level plot of land on Coruscant can't be cheap, and the Dantooine temple won't rebuild itself...||

[lavish flame]

||I know it's not really possible due to star wars being star wars, but I'd love to see some ex jedi trying different ways of being light siders without being under the jedi umbrella while still being part of some institution.||

||Like eventually aside from niche groups the Jedi have to go back to being arrogant and rigid idiots by the end, but that time period lends itself so well to the idea of disparate smaller orders.||

||As much as I love the Kotor games, they have the very star wars problem of just being too much like the movies at times in broad strokes.||

[wispy vortex]

We discover a decent amount of these in Legends

[lavish flame]

I think we discover everything in legends though.

I'm fairly certain the means of time travel are hidden somewhere in there.

[wispy vortex]

Wasn’t that in Crosscurrent

[lavish flame]

I mean moreso in a level of media that's somewhat prominent.

[lavish flame]

That one book with palpatine's cyclops son exists in legends too.

[wispy vortex]

I dont remember that

[lavish flame]

Sorry he isn't a cyclops.

He's a triclops.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops

Wait this is a different guy!

There were multiple of these???

The one I know is a bad guy who tries to kidnap the solo kids iirc.

[autumn hemlock]

What can I say, Sheev got around

[wintry lark]

doesn't even have a third eye, false advertising

[autumn hemlock]

Unless...

Are we sure that's a brow-ridge?

[lavish flame]

He had a hidden eye.

[wispy vortex]

It’s on the back of his head

I had completely forgotten about him

[echo echo]

KOTOR 2 is I think a pretty fundamentally difficult sell for qualifying for a remake in a way 1 is not

[wispy lichen]

The leaks seem to indicate a remake is in the works alongside the 1 Remake

Which is admittedly shocking

And why we all got excited lol

[echo echo]

1. KOTOR 2 and Andor share a lot of DNA, in that they both pretty directly challenge some of Star Wars' fundamental ideas. They both do it in a way that still works for Star Wars, it doesn't break it at all, but the challenge remains
2. 2 being unfinished is more than just... a mission, or something like that. 2 never brings its ideas meaningfully together and that relies pretty heavily on side content. And how do you do that in 2025? And who decides how far to chase that thread? At what point are you no longer making a remake and instead are treating the original like a rough draft? It gets real weird real quick

[autumn hemlock]

Yes, but if you're remaking KotOR 1, I think it's a much easier sell to get your team that'd normally be working on DLC or whatever to start chipping away at KotOR 2

Ah, you were approaching from the art perspective

Not business and dev time/logistics

[echo echo]

I'm kind of skeptical of the whole leak anyway

Mostly in that, even if it isn't dead yet it does feel like an open case in an on-the-books sort of fashion rather than open open

Formally uncancelled

Like Rithmatist 2

[wispy vortex]

I believe

It will come out

Next year

[echo echo]

The year is 2031

Brandon has written his 19th secret novel

None of them have been Rithmatist 2

[echo echo]

Bean:

[wispy lichen]

Interview from Aspyr (who handed it to a company under Saber)
A: Juliet was the code name for a project where we were going to do a full remake of KOTOR II with modern art, modern game play, you know, keep the story and the characters and the general -- the general content of KOTOR II, but remake it for modern hardware and modern machines with updated graphics and all those kind of things. It was something we were discussing with Aspyr.

Q: So Lucasfilms and Aspyr were going to partner on remaking KOTOR II?

A: That's correct.

Q: Would that remake have included the RCM content?

A: Not the RCM content as was contained in the mod, but we were trying to recreate the audio-visual representation that was contained in that mod so you could have -- much like all the other experiences from the original KOTOR, what -- if not the original content, we would be remaking the content, and the plan was we would remake the content that was in the RCM as it relates to Star Wars in that Juliet project.

Q: Got it. So if there was a new planet in the RCM, that new planet would have been included in the Juliet version of the KOTOR II?

A: That's the idea.

Q: So what happened with the Juliet project?

A: So Juliet is still technically on the road map right now. We're starting with the remake of KOTOR I, but Aspyr is no longer working on that project. That project has now been handed off to another developer as well as Juliet.

Q: Who is the other developer?

A: That is a company called Mad Head Games that is owned by -- I can't remember the name of the parent company, but Mad Head Games is the name of the studio."

[wispy lichen]

I do too

[lavish flame]

I can see Kotor 1 late next year.

Depending on how big of a remake it is.

If it's mostly just reskin+combat next year makes sense.

[wispy lichen]

Depends how far along they are tbh

Hard to say what Saber has been doing the last years with it

[lavish flame]

Seems like the studio has been working on it since the transfer to them.

[cedar osprey]

Get this man in an X-Wing cockpit https://x.com/SuperSagaNews/status/1998250348381946040?s=20

Superman Saga News (@SuperSagaNews)

David Corenswet has told Lucasfilm his dream role is to play an X-wing pilot in a Star Wars project

"They're aware"

(@CNN | https://t.co/KGcrCeM1CE)

X · Dec 9, 2025, 4:36 AM

[lavish flame]

I think it'll be low scope though, if mad head is the main ones working on it.

They're mostly a mobile game studio.

I was hoping for like, ff7 levels.

[wispy lichen]

We don’t know how much is Saber and how much is Mad Head

Tbh

[lavish flame]

Fair enough.

[lavish flame]

Look up their wiki.

It gave me a minor heart attack for a second there.

https://hogs.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Head_Games

The list of games.

"find revan's mask somewhere in this room!"

[golden flame]

Small correction, I believe that was a Lucasfilm guy, not Aspyr

[wispy vortex]

Mini A wing!

[topaz cliff]

Is that home one?

[wispy vortex]

Yeah!

[golden flame]

ah well 😔

Kurakasis (@Kurakasis)

The title is NOT "KNIGHTS of the Old Republic"

QRT: Kurakasis
The title of this game ends with "The Old Republic" 👀

vxTwitter / fixvx · Dec 11, 2025, 10:18 PM

[wispy lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/tantrum-mocha-bear-gif-6395321692200508035

[wispy vortex]

Why does Disney hate us

[wispy lichen]

Hear me out: the Sith Lords of the Old Republic (KOTOR 2 remake)

[wispy vortex]

KOTOR 3

[golden flame]

Kotor of the Old Republic

[wispy vortex]

Exactly

Actually, they just typoed it as Nights of the Old Republic and it’s too hard to change

[wispy lichen]

Knight of the Old Republic

[golden flame]

It passed through Google Translate and ended up as Horse-Mounted Soldiers of the Old Republic

[wispy vortex]

Fortnite of the Old Republic

[golden flame]

Coincidentally also serves as Secret History 2

[dense lance]

Nostalgia of the Old Republic

[dry herald]

It's mandalorians of the old republic as it's the story from the mandalorian's pov

which now that I mention, a game set in the mandalorian jedi war would be sick

[autumn hemlock]

Fishmen of the Old Republic, the bold Manaan Neutrality Simulator

[dry herald]

play as the guy who made the darksaber

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 1] ||They're abandoning secrecy and calling it Revan of the Old Republic obviously||

[autumn hemlock]

Hmm, now that I think about it, that'd be a neat idea for a Star Wars game, a city/planet sim where you play as the ruler of a <location> under the Galactic Empire, and you need to try to make things work

[dry herald]

Maybe Hutt in human form plotting to overthrow the Old Republic.

[autumn hemlock]

Appeasing your local Moff while still trying to be a decent/profitable governor, and like 3/4 of the way through, oops, the Empire's been overthrown and you're now the leader of a planet in Rebel territory, and some of your decisions come back to bite you

[lavish flame]

They're making it a trilogy, ff7 style.

Kotor: a new hope

Kotor: malak strikes back

Kotor: return of the jedi

[golden flame]

Developed by Arcanaut Studios in collaboration with Lucasfilm Games, Star Wars: Fate of the Old Republic is a new single-player narrative-driven action RPG and spiritual successor to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Led by Casey Hudson, Game director of the original Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic and the Mass Effect trilogy, the team of veteran game developers and storytellers at Arcanaut Studios is crafting an epic interactive adventure across a galaxy on the brink of rebirth where every decision shapes your path towards light or darkness.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lAmkl1jL0fo

interesting 👀

brief interview about it: https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-fate-of-the-old-republic-trailer

doesn't really have anything specific, "still in the early stages of development and creation"

does clarify it is "not a direct sequel or continuation"

but they really like mentioning KOTOR

[lavish flame]

So likely to be cancelled ngl.

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR / FOTOR ||the Leviathin (Malak’a ship) seems to be the ship the woman is going to ||

[golden flame]

oh ha there's a gizka in the bottom right when she gets off the ship

https://youtu.be/lAmkl1jL0fo?t=47

[wispy lichen]

Not the gizka hahahha

[golden flame]

inescapable

[wispy lichen]

Okay I’m very on board with the thought of what KOTOR 3 could have been if not for SWTOR but maybe I’m coping

[golden flame]

hear me out: Fate of the Old Republic = game about learning the fate of the KOTOR Remake

[wispy lichen]

Lmaaaao

[golden flame]

studio was founded in July, so definitely gonna be quite a while

[broken smelt]

Yeah I'm guessing 5 years, assuming no major delays, etc.

I'm cautious, especially since it's so far away, but optimistic. KOTOR was such a pivotal game for me as a kid

[dry herald]

I wasnt that excited seeing a glance of it, but now that ive seen it has the og director of kotor, im all in

This is hype

[lavish flame]

I hope Casey Hudson has still got it.

He's been on a strange run for a decade.

[dense lance]

You mean the thing about visiting Sith fiefdoms?

[wintry lark]

Announcing a game that's still in early stages feels like a really bad idea to me

[dry herald]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-k2so-that-is-a-bad-idea-rogue-one-bad-idea-gif-26779100

Agreed

But i cant really stop myself from being hyped despite the real risk of it sentenced to dev hell due to how far away it is from being finished

[autumn hemlock]

I mean, there's always a chance that it's like 70% of a project that got plucked away from one studio and attached to another one that had the right name attached

[wispy lichen]

Honestly that’s why I wish it was the KOTOR remake because that has years of dev time into it already

[autumn hemlock]

Like a clout-based version of what seems to have happened to the remakes

[wintry lark]

My take is that if you're not ready to announce a release date (or at least release window), you shouldn't announce anything at all

[lavish flame]

Yeah I wouldn't expect we even see it again for like 3-4 years.

[upper tangle]

So the original plan for KOTOR 3 was ||that the big growing threat from beyond was gonna be some kind of cosmic horror.
Then TOR just made it be ancient Sith||

[golden flame]

My understanding is that it's both of those

||It would be about visiting the strongholds of the ancient Sith, who were the threat behind Revan's actions, but said ancient Sith would have become Nihilus-style horrors rather than mostly ordinary people the way SWTOR did it?||

[upper tangle]

||Never heard that angle to it. Making be anything actually Sith is just a weird one to me given the theming of Kotor 2 about how even Nihilus in the end was just a man, nothing more.||

[golden flame]

||[“The third game involved you, as a player character, following where Revan went and then taking the battle to the really ancient Sith lords who are far more terrifying than the Darths that show up. These guys would just be monsters. These would have a level of power that was considerable, but at the same time you’d be able to dig more into their psychologies, and their personalities, their history, and even how they dealt with the player, how they talk with the player, the different powers they cultivated and developed, and for some of them like - they’re the ancients, so they’re not just ruling a solar system, [but] swathes of the galaxy.

“So the places you travel to [you’d see] how they left their stamp on that world, or that solar system, or whatever collection of moons. You’d see how horrible that was. Part of that environment would tell a story about that. [That] would be a great, epic way to end the trilogy. The Old Republic are out there. We just didn’t get a chance to do it.”](https://www.vg247.com/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-3-story)||

[KOTOR 2] ||I'm preeeeetty sure Kreia also refers to the threat Revan foresaw as "the true Sith" at some point||

[upper tangle]

hrmmm
(someone needs to shoot a note to AMCA about double checking their sources cause I just finished their Kotor 2 series and what they were pulling was suggesting different, and what they suggested lined up with what i'd understood for a while)

[wispy vortex]

Legends ||Plot twist, it’s just the One Sith again||

[golden flame]

||I think Canderous might also say the Sith encouraged them to attack the Republic?||

[echo echo]

I don't follow AMCA but every time they come to my attention these days its because they're wrong about something

[upper tangle]

ill be honest, it's entirely possible i just misunderstood things that were said

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2] ||Ah yep, during the final conversation where you ask about the future
Quotes pulled from StrategyWiki (Revan's pronouns can ofc vary, but I stuck with one side of the tree for simplicity):

Exile: "And Bao-Dur - and the droids?"

Kreia: "Their paths are unknown to me. Even the small one - who waits for you outside this place - I sense it has one last journey for you. You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes."

Exile: "And Revan? He came here, was here. What happened to him?"

Kreia: "It is because he remembered what lay buried here - this place, its teachings. It paved the way to Korriban, you know, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark."

Exile: "But we've fought the Sith."

Kreia: "Have we? You thought that the corrupted remnants of the Republic, the machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere. And Revan knew that the true war is not against the Republic. It waits for us beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it, in his own way. He left the Ebon Hawk and its machines behind, for he knew he would not need them. And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them."
||

[golden flame]

||I'm trying to figure out where I got this, maybe it was actually the novel? In which case who knows if it was planned or not||

||But the threat Revan found being Sith definitely was||

[upper tangle]

||I wish i had transcripts for AMCA cause now i wanna double check if i misheard what they said about what TOR did||

yeah i misunderstood them more broadly than they were saying
so don't listen to me for mischaracterizing them xD
im just an idiot

||Their point and one I agree with is that the text Kotor 2 points to something much stranger and unfamiliar than what gets done in TOR||

Amusingly though
(Add Mass Effect All to the tags) ||They make the great point that eventually Bioware makes a space game about a galaxy unprepared for a coming force from outside the galaxy beyond anything anyone understands.
And it just clicked for me, that Mass Effect itself actually also does the thing of "Well that strange alien thing is actually a lot more mundane than was being set up before"||

[lavish flame]

Tbf that's an inevitable part of something eldritch.

It will always be something more mundane than it was set up if it's ever explained.

The fear of the unknown can never really be filled with a suitable enough known.

Mass effect ||There's better and worse ways to do it but the reapers are pretty okay imo.||

[lavish flame]

||Even if it's not directly stated i think it's fairly obvious this happened at some level from the novel. Revan and Malak meet Vitiate, are turned and then the next thing they do is attack the republic. It's fairly logical to think that Vitiate told them to do it to soften them up.||

||Broadly speaking the entire thing is a ridiculous mess due to the weird decisions taken again and again. Revan is basically four to five separate characters depending on which actions you look at, and it definitely doesn't come off as intentional ambiguity.||

[distant plover]

I must be the only one that actually likes how The Old Republic depicted the Sith and their Empire.

[distant plover]

I also think that this eldritch horror vibe don't really fits the Sith. It may work for one or two cases, but for an entire Empire? In a game in which you are, in theory, supposed to fight against them? The Sith are emotional creatures, they motivations are fundamentally human. You may even argue that they are more human than the Jedi.

[lavish flame]

I think that's how the sith have worked in most depictions but that doesn't have to be the totality of what they are.

The dark side is often depicted as a twisting, corrupting influence. The idea of letting it run rampant on a bunch of perhaps once human motivations and completely morphing them to monsters is one that has a lot of value.

Because to my understanding all TOR did was make them just regular sith, with Vitiate basically being proto Palps.

[echo echo]

TOR/OT ||Vitiate is arguably a lot more successful than Sheev||

[lavish flame]

Kotor 2 ||Nihilus is a great example of this. He's got a very base, human desire that's clearly... Gotten out of hand.||

[lavish flame]

TOR/OT ||Iirc he ruled for a few centuries before going out like an idiot which definitely is a big up than most sith.||

[distant plover]

I am fine with the occasional "weird" interpretation of the Sith, but in general I prefer the more humane interpretations that one can see in the movies, and most of Star Wars content.

[lavish flame]

That's fine, but I think an eldritch vibe can definitely fit the sith. Mainline star wars doesn't go deep into it but the force is arguably mechanically and philosophically pretty horrifying at times.

[distant plover]

Maybe in Kotor 2, but I don't think that is the case in the rest of the franchise or what Lucas intended.

I also think that this Kotor 3 vs TOR conversation is just a case of "the grass is greener on the other side". We never got Kotor 3, so people ended forming their own fantasies about how great the game would be, while TOR had to deal with a bunch of expectations. Something that Fate of the Old Republic will end facing too.

[echo echo]

I mean I fundamentally do like the idea of the Sith chasing an emotional high so far it warps who and what they are, it is something even the baseline movies moderately allude to

[golden flame]

[KOTOR series all] ||I was trying to talk about what KOTOR 2 had established for the future of the series, so I was excluding TOR and the novel
I thought Canderous had a line hinting at it in the games, but I may be misremembering
(Though if that is a TOR decision it's one I'm fine with)||

[echo echo]

Even the broader expanded universe has a habit of sticking masks on Sith, and while that's obviously a Darth Vader thing there's also something visually dehumanizing about it too

My preferred idea of "balance" has never been about the balance between light and dark, but balance in oneself and in society. The Sith tend to chase something that (occasionally) starts out justified or even good but becomes obsessive and goes off an extreme cliff. Unbalanced, unhinged behavior

Which is why the idea of gray Jedi has always been a turnoff for me

[wispy lichen]

KOTOR 2 / SWTOR ||my problem with the Sith as depicted is primarily that they turned Revan into a pawn. It’s so much more interesting for it to be like KOTOR 2 said: Revan fell to strengthen the galaxy against the coming darkness. He sacrificed himself for the sake of the galaxy.
SWTOR says nah Vitiate made him do it||

[golden flame]

[KOTOR 2+SWTOR] ||Yeah
Having Revan and Malak break free was probably an attempt to reclaim some of that, but the initial fall being just mind control robs it of the same impact
It makes him special, but not necessarily interesting||

||Even if you take a less... idolizing perspective of Revan than Kreia does as his teacher, you can also play with the ambiguity of him telling himself it's a sacrifice but that itself maybe being a sign he's already fallen and seeks justification, which is still a more fun direction than "sorry you're mind controlled to be evil now"||

||("It is such a quiet thing, to fall" and all that)||

[wispy lichen]

||this is so true. And it’s so interesting for Revan to consciously choose that path. To say “this is better than the alternative”||

||even if he’s lying to himself||

[golden flame]

||And ultimately the fact you can take it multiple directions and ask those "was it worth it?" questions feels like it works well with K2, imo
Whereas with what TOR did there's just... not a whole lot to question morality-wise, poor guy just keeps getting brainwashed back and forth||

||Which is admittedly funny||

[golden flame]

Yeah, I like the idea Avellone talks about and I do think it could be plausibly executed in a way I prefer to how TOR paid it off, but I don't think it would ever be as perfect as people hype themselves up for

I'd've been interested to see them try, though

[distant plover]

My fundamental problem with Revan is that the guy is not even a character, he is a avatar for the player to project their power fantasies on him, something that Kotor 2 just exacerbated.

[distant plover]

With how much people have hyped this hypothetical Kotor 3 concept, I don't really think that there is a way in which they can satisfy everyone.

[golden flame]

I was referring to before there were two decades of mystique around it

[distant plover]

I was not really impressed by Kotor 2, but it would have been interesting to see what they could have done in Kotor 3 with more time and budget.

[upper tangle]

For me it's less "I think this would have been better" and more "At least it would have been different"

[summer pasture]

Seeing the trailer for galactic racer made me realize something

How do we think Sebulba felt after the civil war when/if*? the general public learned Vader was Anakin

*Can't recall if it was canon that people ended up learning of it

[summer pasture]

Thanks for putting it in better words than I usually do

[broken smelt]

Hmm well I think we get a sense in the Bloodline novel ||that the galaxy probably did know. Or at least could figure it out. Like, everyone found out he was Leia's dad, not sure if they heard his real identity||

||I have no idea how old he was or how long Duggs live for, but if he was around that long?|| Well he strikes me as someone who would hold onto a petty grudge, so I bet he'd laugh about all of Vader's power falling apart out of a sense of petty vindictiveness

[wispy lichen]

<@&1396936875054203020>

today is we move onto the third Wraith Squadron book! Solo command by Aaron Allston. Our next book will be the back to Michael Stackpole with Isard’s Revenge

[wispy vortex]

https://youtu.be/j1sCUgtRu1Y?si=VD6uMgV98KDpyNHA

[wispy vortex]

https://youtu.be/w3wVXIb3p90?si=VR_DCwhShm0UE4yJ

[warm thicket]

Genuinely how can anyone think AI is cool when people have been making stuff like this for centuries?
-# do not fact check me on the timeline

[vale dirge]

I was hoping for something more along the lines of https://youtu.be/udNHGkgBDKE

Or https://youtu.be/DclkIJ2_IAQ

[unkempt sail]

Iron Fist 8 (I'm behind but whatever) ||very fun to see the Rogues and Wraiths interacting||

[wispy vortex]

||Which ones give Wedge the biggest headaches?||

[wispy lichen]

I, Jedi 8 ||Corran is so funny. He’s so neurotic lol. ||

[wispy lichen]

I, Jedi 17 ||Mara is such a mood ||

||I love Mara||

[wispy vortex]

[wispy lichen]

I, Jedi 26 ||I like the way Mara is such a tsundere around Luke lmao. She won’t admit she has feelings for him. ||

[supple star]

Just started Iron Fist.

2 ||Gara is going to be an issue||

IF 3/ Aftermath ||Castin’s backstory reminded me of the start. Great scene.||

IF 3 ||Face’s theory is plausible, and there is a book called Isard’s revenge.||

[wispy lichen]

I, Jedi 42 / Legends gen ||my goat Elegos returns. Here’s your crown king. 👑 ||

[wispy vortex]

He gives the best advice in the galaxy

[wispy lichen]

Peak is on Webtoon

[cedar osprey]

Billions must read Lost Stars

BILLIONS

[wispy lichen]

It is very good

A great romance

[wispy lichen]

I, Jedi 48 ||Luke is so down bad for Mara 😭 ||

||he sees Mirax, says “wife material”, then says “doesn’t she remind you of Mara” ||

[wispy lichen]

Phew all done.

I gotta lock in and catch up

[wispy vortex]

How did you like it?

[wispy lichen]

Pretty good!

Solid A-tier book for me

Let me make a tier list of ones I’ve read real quick. It’ll help me track how my opinions change when we hit NJO especially lol.

As you can tell by the 6 peak New Jedi Order books and 4 great ones, I really like New Jedi Order lol

[wispy vortex]

I can’t believe there’s stuff below Kevin J Anderson lmao

[wispy lichen]

Tbh I think KJA’s prose is better than the Agents of Chaos stuff and than Denning’s prose. So for that he gets a small win.

[wispy vortex]

But the story. And the characters. And the super weapons…

[wispy lichen]

Jedi Search is fine

The rest…

I think Denning’s prose is bad tho, but SbS is good by virtue of the plot

So in spite of Denning being a bad writer, he gets that one win

And Revan gets the bottom spot for making me angry

[lavish flame]

The revan book gave me the feeling of revanchism ngl.

[wispy vortex]

Does that make it S tier

[lavish flame]

The book really makes you feel like revan.

Like you've lost something important, hopeless and tired.

[lavish flame]

Alsace Lorraine better watch out.

[unkempt sail]

Finished Iron Fist but I have a head cold so I really feel like I muddled through the last part. ||Lara feels like a dangling thread!!||

[wispy vortex]

Still got 1 book to go!

[supple star]

I like this Once I am done with the X wing book I will put together a Legends I’ve read tier list as well.

I just finished Iron Fist. ||Phanan’s death sucked, I am glad though that he helped Face get over his self hatred. Castin’s death was also brutal. I am interested to see where the Lara stuff goes though, she seems pretty firmly at this point on the Wraith’s side, but she is still a spy with a false identity, she is going to be found out.||

I must admit that I am starting to find the Imperial Remnants a little boring. Or maybe it’s just that I haven’t gotten to know Zsinj well enough yet.

[wispy lichen]

The Imperial Remnants really dominated every novel for a while

[wispy vortex]

Zsinj isn’t a member of the Remnant, he’s an independent warlord

[supple star]

Starting Solo Command today

SC 1 ||Dang Piggy hit the brainwash assassin so hard that the metal wall dented.||

[unkempt sail]

Also started Solo Command last night.
SC 1 ||glad to know Piggy survived; he's my favorite Wraith and I hope he figures out the secret of the brainwashed assassin||

[pliant yew]

So.., is season 2 of andor worth it?

Also I feel like I have forgotten 90% of the first season

[inland owl]

yes

[dry herald]

Yes, definitely

It's peak

Though if you've forgotten s1, I'd recommend rewatching it

[pliant yew]

On a scale of 1-10 how revolutionary is it

[pliant yew]

I remember… some of it lol

I mostly just don’t want to have to rewatch all that

[bitter trail]

there is a recap

[wispy vortex]

100%

[pliant yew]

Oh, perfect

[bitter trail]

i didn't watch it so i can't comment on its quality or depth

[echo echo]

In strict definitionalist terms it puts the revolution in the Rebellion

So, 10/10 revolutionary would vive la republique again

[unkempt sail]

There's even space French!

[wispy lichen]

Today we’re supposed to move on to Isard’s Revenge but I don’t think any of us are caught up so we can bump back the start for that one a week?

[supple star]

Yes I am good with that. I will probably be ready for it then

[unkempt sail]

yeah I could try to rush through Solo Command but ehhhh I started it over the weekend

[wispy lichen]

Sounds good. We can bump it.

[wispy vortex]

:(

[unkempt sail]

I mean if you wanna read it go for it while the rest of us catch up lol

[bright blade]

AB

SO

LUTELY

[pliant yew]

Andor 2:1 and 2:2: ||Pleaseeee give me the lesbian romance. I am begging you. You are dangling it so invitingly...||

[wispy vortex]

I already did

[wispy vortex]

Andor 1 ||They were already a couple in s1, having unnamed issues atm||

||Unless there is another couple of lesbians making moony eyes at each other I forgot about||

[pliant yew]

||Apparently I have forgotton more than I thought||

[pliant yew]

||Cinta and Mon's advisor lady?||

[bitter trail]

||Mon's cousin!||

[pliant yew]

Wait no, wrong name?

||Mon's redheaded advisor/cousin and the person who does radio transmissions out the back of the shop||

[unkempt sail]

||Clea! she's married to her work at the moment tho||

[pliant yew]

||Kleya!||

[unkempt sail]

oop you have the right spelling

[pliant yew]

Okay I'm not going insane then

[bitter trail]

andor s1 ||yeah so Kleya was not dating either of them. Cinta and Vel were/are an item||

[pliant yew]

||I did catch Vel and Cinta. I'm talking about Kleya and one of Mon Mothma's advisors||

Oh okay, hair color changed. Good gracious

||I ship Kleya and Vel. I just didn't know that was also vel because the hair color changed||

[bitter trail]

||ah i see. i was about to be very confused||

[pliant yew]

Andor 2:3 I think? ||The whole cutting off the braid to signify marriage is really interesting||

[broken smelt]

Andor 2:1-3 ||I absolutely loved seeing Chandrilan culture built out. There are so many cultural practices that are just presented without comment, maybe is the best way to put it? Like, just great world building that was clearly well thought out, that's present to make the characters feel more real rather than being plot-focused||

[pliant yew]

I haven’t really watched much Star Wars since like Andor season 1 and I’m curious if anything else is worth watching?

[autumn hemlock]

The only universally beloved thing since Andor Season 1 is Andor Season 2; everything else is hotly contested at best

[broken smelt]

The Mandalorian (particularly season 1) was mostly well-received by the general public. Though it is nothing like Andor in terms of tone or style

[pliant yew]

Yeah, I tried watching Ahsoka (because I absolutely love her, she’s my favorite Star Wars character) and it just did not vibe

[broken smelt]

Personally I think Skeleton Crew is also very well done, and requires basically no Star Wars knowledge. But it is very much an Amblin-style "12 yos go on an adventure with treasure and pirates" so only recommend if you like that type of story

Fair, I love Ahsoka but it is definitely not the easiest to get into (I liked it a lot better the 2nd time I watched it, right after rewatching Rebels)

[pliant yew]

I’m also sad to hear that tales of the Jedi ended up retconning parts of the Ahsoka book

[echo echo]

People have soured on Mando in the last couple of years and I'm honestly not entirely sure why except for Star Wars Bad sentiment leaking into kind of everything not-Andor

[autumn hemlock]

I didn't bother watching S3 after I heard that S2.5 was hidden in another show

But in general what I've heard is S2 hit the shows carrying capacity on nostalgia bait, and S3 kept loading it on

[broken smelt]

I have actually liked each season progressively more, because I enjoy when long-form storytelling enlarges in scope. I also have the increasingly unpopular opinion of: one of the things I like in large franchises is seeing characters get brought forward, how they react to the changing galaxy, etc. etc. (Especially when you have so many different stories told across different media: there's room for stories focused solely on new characters and room for revisiting old characters)

I also generally have more faith that creatives want to tell these stories (especially at Lucasfilm), rather than all narrative choices are being dictated by executives pushing for "more nostalgia"

[topaz cliff]

The visions shorts are worth checking out

[supple star]

I love Skeleton Crew, and Mando S1 & 2 are good to great in my opinion.

But way too many people are sleeping on SC, it is so much fun. Solid acting, which is not always guarantied when it comes to child actors.

[unkempt sail]

Yeah! Jude Law is having so much fun and the kids are great

[wispy vortex]

@wispy lichen I perpetually wanted more books in the Old Republic since imo they convey story better than games

[wispy lichen]

Yeah. I think the game is a LOT of fun for what it is and I actually like the portrayal of the war and the sith but it mostly becomes “live out your Star Wars fantasy” simulator more than doing serious storytelling for the era

I’d have likes some more Old Republic books that weren’t tie-ins

[wispy vortex]

Though the trailers are amazing

[wispy lichen]

Dawn of the Jedi was bad tho so lmao

[wispy vortex]

It wassss

[wispy lichen]

The KOTOR comics is kinda like what I’d have loved to see

[wispy vortex]

I also wanted a book version of the Legacy era

[wispy lichen]

(DotJ comics were awesome tho)

[wispy vortex]

I really wish I could do comics

I just want story

Rebels ||Its Hobbie 😭||

[wispy lichen]

Wraith Squadron 4 ||I had to look up a pic of Ekwesh and he’s a horse 😭 ||

[wispy vortex]

Idk, Bothans look pretty horselike too

[wispy lichen]

The description sounded like a Bothan for a sec

[wispy vortex]

It confused me at first too

They do look different when you see art though

[wispy lichen]

I think of Bothans as like lions tbh

[wispy vortex]

I can see that

[wispy lichen]

WS 5 ||the pilots feel much more real in this series vs. Rogue where the focus was on individuals ||

||like we get to know Corran, Wedge, and Tycho and the rest mostly feel sidelined ||

[silk solar]

@wispy lichen im watching episode 8 for the first time

i have seen ep 9 tho

TLJ 15 mins in ||just going back to empire vs resistance is probbably the biggest narrative mistake of the sequels ||

[silk solar]

~ 25 mins in ||i am pretty neutral on luke losing faith, but i feel like they havent established why he did in a way that makes sense for the character||

[wispy lichen]

TLJ ||and it makes it so hard for the New Republic to have been a meaningful government because there is hardly a trace of it left ||

[wispy vortex]

||It resets the entire series to just ANH again. It ruins all the victories of the original trilogy||

[silk solar]

||it is this weird thing where they just reset the finale of the episode six so in a way luke's nihilism is justified in a way not intended by the story. like yeah if random empire fleets with matching uniforms will just crop out of nowhere in 20 years who cares ig||

[wispy vortex]

I hate it so much

[silk solar]

||i dont know why po and leia are arguing or why every pilot is on the bridge||

||also literally who is snoke ||

[wispy lichen]

||psuedo Palpatine from e7 who is Kylo Ren’s master||

[wispy lichen]

||it’s kinda awful because what is even the point of anything Luke or Leia did? It didn’t matter at all||

[wispy vortex]

||They could have done so many interesting things with him. But Rian Johnson didnt want to||

[wispy vortex]

This so many times

[wispy lichen]

||I thought he was Plagueis||

[wispy vortex]

It is my biggest gripe with the sequels

[wispy vortex]

||I did too, but nope, just a random clone thing||

[silk solar]

||is there a reason kylo ren turned evil or did he just wanna||

[wispy lichen]

This gets addressed in this movie but mostly the latter

[wispy vortex]

^

[silk solar]

||you can really hear carrie fischer's age in her voice||

||also did luke just not teach her the force in the 10 years before he gave up||

[wispy vortex]

||He did. Sort of||

[echo echo]

TLJ ||There's an interesting idea there about Kylo flipping the script and resisting the "temptation" of the light side of the Force that they almost engage with but then never actually quite do||

[autumn hemlock]

||Traditionally Leia's too busy being a contributing member of society having an always-on job and a family to learn the ways of the Force.||

[wispy lichen]

TLJ ||as is, it just feels so “I’m not good like my parents I’m dark and emo and broody” hair flip||

[wispy vortex]

Thats what TLJ was missing, more hair flips

[wispy lichen]

True

Kylo Ren is the Kyp Durron of canon tbh

[wispy vortex]

100%

[silk solar]

more like Drip Durron

[wispy vortex]

Legends ||Except Kyp arguably had decent reasons for going evil||

[wispy lichen]

||yeah. still a bit “I’m emo now dad” but more valid than Kylo||

[wispy vortex]

I hate to say it, but Kyp is written better than Kylo

[silk solar]

35 mins ||they put all their leadership in one place? isnt that war 101||

[wispy lichen]

It helps that Kyp is actually pretty fun in NJO

[autumn hemlock]

||I forget, which place is the place in question?||

[silk solar]

||the bridge that gets blown up||

[echo echo]

||Some star system they had to clarify in post-TFA material iirc||

[wispy vortex]

||This is why ships usually have auxiliary bridges||

[echo echo]

Oh ||on the ship||

[autumn hemlock]

||Ah. I'm no boatman, but I'm pretty sure usually the officers and leadership stay somewhere they can do officering and lead ships||

[echo echo]

||Less weird than you might think||

[wispy vortex]

TFA ||I still find it insane they blew up the capital of the New Republic without telling us what it was and giving no context||

[silk solar]

TLJ ||i think po's character conflict would make one sense if there was literally one battle in star wars history not won by a tirgger happy maverick that ignores orders||

[silk solar]

||they have multiple ships is the thing||

[silk solar]

maybe single most inexplicable scene in cinema history

[wispy vortex]

||Also, why was the capital Hosnian Prime and not Coruscant??||

[echo echo]

|||Presumably (and this is a real thing in naval combat) the other ships' job is to get down Mr President for the ship carrying the good stuff, that's how aircraft carrier strike groups work||

[echo echo]

TFA ||IIRC they put out some thing about "couldn't be trusted, too Imperial" so the New Republic decided to move the capital||

[silk solar]

||i mean the idea of ships fighting in space is already stretching disbelief this is more funny than anything. like i hope that ti fighter got a raise||

[wispy vortex]

||Also, did you notice that also killed Admiral Akbar? God forbid they mention that||

[silk solar]

||they did, but the guy is literally a meme so who cares. SW actually needs less of pretending one of worldbuilding things in earlier movies are emotionally resonant||

[wispy vortex]

||He is one of the most important characters in Legends, leading the Republic military for decades||

[silk solar]

40 mins ||how is finn a resistance hero? hasnt it been like 3 days?||

[echo echo]

||Why is this so odd to you? This is just about the same as how carrier battles go||

[autumn hemlock]

||It was his cover story and everyone's run with it||

[silk solar]

||i think at this level of tech most damage being done by individually piloted figters with no shields is kinda absurd, but i am willing to roll with it. although taking down every canon on a dreadnought in the beginning of the movie is a little much||

[wispy vortex]

||You mean with gravity dropped bombs in space?||

[silk solar]

||that have to be armed by a walkie talkie yes||

[wispy vortex]

||At least give it a wristband||

[silk solar]

||why is finn leaving to go get rei? why does he have to be secret about it?||

[echo echo]

||Honestly I think if the last ~100 years of warfare should have taught us anything its that low tech properly applied keeps winning||

[wispy vortex]

||Hes not, hes deserting||

[silk solar]

||ok they clarified this||

||does rei have a character trait?||

[wispy lichen]

||Ackbar my king my goat we stan||

[wispy lichen]

Star Wars general ||I don’t remember this specific aspect of that movie but in general, X-Wings would have shields that would sacrifice a little bit of power (which signified the Republic cares more about protecting pilots than winning battles) and Ties would not have shields (because the military was fodder and the act of continuously replacing pilots was a way to constantly recruit from populations and build new Ties, forcing a war industry onto the people of the galaxy)||

[wispy vortex]

Legends ||I wish he could have seen Coruscant retaken 😔 ||

[echo echo]

||Did movie Luke?||

[silk solar]

in the original trilogy or now?

[echo echo]

OT

[silk solar]

no but the original trilogy doesnt work if you just do the same movie twice

||CASINO PLANET BROUGH TO YOU BY FAN DUEL THE OFFICIAL BETTING PARTNER OF STAR WARS||

||ok luke making points about the jedi failing ||

||ITS THE SHIRTLESS SCENE LMAO||

[echo echo]

One of the very few memes that the ST will get away with in the long term imo

[silk solar]

Ok taking a break with an hour left

[wispy lichen]

Thoughts so far?

[silk solar]

TLJ 50% ||i think the biggest problem with the movie is that what characters say and what we are shown are at odds. Luke’s arc is dependent on Jedi being these deified religious figures, but no one talks about them? The rebellion (ugh) is pretty agnostic, the legends of the last trilogy are people you can grab a beer with. Meanwhile the FO is all about worshipping Vader and such, but Kylo is like “kill the past be what you can become or whatever”. And none of this factors into what po or finn are doing at all||

[lavish flame]

In general the sequels feel very... Scene to scene.

It almost feels like Vince Russo booking where you just decide what scene you wanna shoot the day of shooting and do it based on vibes.

Objectively I know that's not true but TLJ in particular seems like it was done with the idea of... "Oh you know what would be cool" and no one disagreed with it.

[silk solar]

stuff just be happening yo

im back baby

||i think the original trilogy got away with the dark side being ill defined because everyone was already on their sides. i have no idea what snoke turning kylo ren means||

||is he trying to burn down a tree after a pouring storm?||

||did she just fly into the mothership in a coffin?||

||i feel there was no reason to not tell the vice admiral the plan||

||why did the codebreaker not just tell them what he was using the necklace for||

||so there was literally no reason for po and the vice admiral to fight? what?||

[echo echo]

TLJ ||This is a plot point I'm really torn on because its weirdly accurate to military drama and bizarrely I feel like I can read where everyone involved is coming from, but it all feels more aimless than I feel like it had to. I think they were a draft or two away from really having something here, which feels like a consistent problem with TLJ to me. Benicio del Toro is the same way for me, where I feel like I can see where the direction was but for whatever reason they only did half the writing process for that character||

[silk solar]

||i think introducing a more realistics military drama where ego and such gets in the way of communication would work better in a tv show where these things are flushed out, it just feels so incongruous in star wars given what the rest of the movie is||

[echo echo]

||Weirdly, I feel like the plotline would have felt absolutely at home in an average Legends storyline ||

||Just, not here||

[silk solar]

||rei's parents being nobody 100% should have stayed||

||wait there were dozens of stormtroopers at the execution what||

[wispy lichen]

||I was pro Kenobi’s granddaughter then, mostly because they had hinted at her parentage w/ the book and the scene in TFA intentionally hiding the parents ||

||regardless, they should have just had a plan and stuck to it for all three movies||

[silk solar]

||hey guys its the walkers remember the walkers?||

[echo echo]

TLJ ||The thing is for me there is no other answer for Rey's parentage that adds anything to Rey as a character, where directly confronting the parentage question and giving Star Wars the opportunity to say "we don't need to do this anymore" with the family trees felt like such an opportunity||

[wispy lichen]

||I agree but then they shouldn’t have teased in TFA||

[echo echo]

||I feel like what we got was a good response to the tease though||

||Maybe the only good response||

[silk solar]

if i was in charge of star wars i would write NO MORE SECRET PARENTS on a big board in the main office

[wispy lichen]

||see but it felt like subverting expectations just to subvert them when she should’ve just been a nobody from the start and not led people on||

This was a thing that seriously bummed me out in middle school

[silk solar]

||there is no way there is another shoot the thing down the hole to win action sequence in star wars i didnt know about it||

[wispy lichen]

Because I excitedly theorized about it between movies

So it felt like a letdown to younger me

[echo echo]

||I didn't feel led on, I felt like it was directly addressing a thing people would have gone in circles about anyway||

[silk solar]

||i think there could be something to rei wanting to be somebody (she should have worshipped the jedi but whatev) and then having that taken away as a character moment||

[wispy lichen]

||but they would need to plan for that||

||my point is TFA sets us up with this clear “Rey who is she??? What is her past???” Mystery obviously intending a big reveal only for TLJ to backtrack on that. And then TROS backtracks on that AGAIN. ||

[silk solar]

||i feel like rose doing this makes actually no sense||

[echo echo]

TLJ ||I think it was a decent character moment as-is. Rey's only real defining character trait is an apparent desire to belong somewhere and the search for her parentage is a reflection of that, and Kylo slams a door in her face, deliberately, by telling her that her parents abandoned her||

||This is a character trait that wholly evaporates in episode 9, but in the first two movies that is a consistent drive for her||

[silk solar]

||i agree although i wish this moment was communicated any other way besides rei saying she wants to know who her parents are to everyone she meets||

[wispy lichen]

TLJ ||I did feel led on and it’s one of the things that most upset me as a kid. It wasn’t helped by my rewatching TFA for a hint at who the hidden parents were or rabidly analyzing the book for her visions for a sign at her heritage (because that is what Disney wanted, let’s be fr), only to get told “yeah jk lol”||

[silk solar]

||ok im still confused. how did we go from republic to rebellion with 12 people in it. didnt that republic have a military||

[wispy lichen]

||they eventually retconned the military to seriously dearm and get really weak because Mon Mothma said “military bad”||

||because it doesn’t make sense||

[echo echo]

TLJ ||This is one of the things Mando and other content does go back and try to address ex post facto||

||The military of it all in Star Wars makes little sense normally and makes basically no sense in the ST||

||Except for RJ's intermittent attempts to do more of a hard sci fi than Star Wars normally engages with||

[wispy lichen]

TLJ ||I’m not opposed to Rey nobody I just think they should have better set that up in TFA / not hinted at hidden parents via flashbacks and visions. Rey wanting to know who she is is interesting. ||

||especially when she just has to be herself||

[wispy vortex]

Moral of the story: PLAN YOUR TRILOGY

[wispy lichen]

Don’t have directors playing tug of war and going back and forth on plotpoints!

[silk solar]

i finished. AMA

[vale dirge]

Will you watch it ever again?

[wispy lichen]

Thoughts on Luke?

[silk solar]

no

[wispy vortex]

Puke

[silk solar]

||im still not sure what they were actually going for with his character. everything around him, what the jedi are, how people feel about his, his legend, what ren turning to the dark side mean, what snoke did, and so on is so ill defined i dont really know what changed between sad luke early and heroic luke late. i think at a high level i like the idea of having to rebuild something out of the failures of the jedi and doing something new, but this is contained in a movie that just repeats elements of previous movies shamelessly so||

[vale dirge]

I don’t think I’ll ever watch a sequel movie again. I also feel no desire to watch most of the TV shows. OT, PT, Rogue One, and Andor are the only things I own on disc, and that’s about all I really want to watch

[silk solar]

||i dont think it is offensive or that ambitious||

[wispy lichen]

SW all ||well and I just think it’s so much more interesting to have Luke see the flaws of the former Jedi Order and build a new, better one. After all, he saves the guy the Jedi thought irredeemable because of love. but they took that all away to make a rehash of the OT instead||

[vale dirge]

I might watch some of the animated shows if I find a complete series Blu-Ray for a reasonable price

[wispy lichen]

Legends Luke is interesting because ||he embodies the ideal of love and even marries, has kids, etc. he lets his Jedi all marry. ||

[silk solar]

||i think this would be far better than what we thought||

||also my god stop with the rebellion stuff ||

[wispy vortex]

I jedi is what the sequels wish they did with Luke. ||He fails his student and lets them get drawn to the dark side because of an excess of faith, not because of a lack of it. || It fits his character so much better

[silk solar]

||i am advocate for making the dark side more complicated than Evil McFascist land, and i think the sequel trilogy desperately needed that direction||

[wispy vortex]

Monkey read Legacy of the Force

[silk solar]

||i think as a film, it is barely held together at every level. Scenes, scenarios, and the overall plot dont really make sense. Stuff be happening yo||

||it is narrative malpractice finn doesnt get a backstory. How you make a defected stormtrooper boring idk but they did it||

[wispy lichen]

||I agree but insofar as there is still this acknowledgement “hey the dark side is bad” lol||

[vale dirge]

||I remember JJ describing TFA as “if the Nazis ran away to Argentina but were able to organize and come back” or something and at the time I was like “yeah!” but now I thing that maybe they should have ctually studied what happens when a rebellion succeeds and make events in Star Wars follow a similar story.||

[silk solar]

||if you want dark side = bad, that is fine, not my preference, but fine. There needs to be iteration somewhere, anywhere||

[wispy lichen]

Legends Luke is so cracked ngl

[vale dirge]

Turns out, pulling your ideas from history tends to make them more believable

[silk solar]

||if it was a true galaxy spanning war between equal powers with a far larger body count than the rebellion, sure. Just dont do the same thing again||

[wispy lichen]

Star Wars general ||I think there is complexity to why one might full to the dark side or use the dark side temporarily in weakened moments. There is also complexity in seeing the Force Is One philosophy where the only real dark side is the good and bad morals within people.
There are lots of interpretations to it. And we can definitely see more interesting ways of approaching it||

[silk solar]

||also the casino scene was pointless to be clear||

[wispy vortex]

Completely and utterly pointless

[wispy lichen]

SW general ||a lot of people (not you, just in the fanbass at large) tend to see the dark side as “ooh cool powers” when the point of the dark side in the OT is it’s a quicker seductive way to power. It seems stronger, but is the wrong path. Like Yoda might see the force as a river flowing, but the dark side is bending the river the way you want it to go. ||

The most interesting force discussions are in New Jedi Order ultimately tho

[silk solar]

||rewardless they should have just picked a lane and stuck with it||

[wispy lichen]

What did you think about Kylo Ren?

[silk solar]

||i think my opinion on everything is bottlenecked by not knowing what the options he is choosing between actually are or why he picked the dark side. I think he is clearly conflicted, and iterates on Vader’s stoic no wait actually im good heel turn in OT, but he needed to he in a better story||

ep IX ||also him and rey kissing was dumb af||

[echo echo]

I do tend to think that a lot of its ambition was couched in, requires some nonzero amount of followup on the ideas it was presenting. And offensive or not I don't think its anywhere close to being as shocking as the active retcons that Rise of Skywalker tried

[wispy lichen]

||yeah. They really should have had clearer light vs. dark stakes and focused on why he would pick the dark||

[silk solar]

Real. Those retcons are just offensive. Especially bc nothing in 8 was something you couldnt confidently write around

[silk solar]

||i think they were going for him rejecting the failed legacy of the jedi and how mistakes just get repeated, but he picked the empire instead lmao so idk what he was thinking there||

[wispy lichen]

||and Luke trying to kill him is so bad 😭 Like Luke destroys his entire legacy. ||

[silk solar]

||especially bc the most evil thing we see kylo do is assault elevators||

||like this guy is who was going to burn the galaxy? The who is down bad for a girl he accidentally got put in the same zoom call as?||

[wispy lichen]

||this is the same Luke who refused to fight Vader and redeemed him via love ||

[wispy vortex]

||Also slaughter a town at the beginning of TFA||

[silk solar]

||i mean finn was there too and no one brings that up so||

[wispy vortex]

I Jedi ||Imo Kyp could not have been redeemed, but Luke still tried, even after Carida, and never even considered killing him||

It’s his biggest flaw imo

[wispy vortex]

Something something brainwashing

[silk solar]

ALSO ||finn’s fight with the chrome stormtrooper was maybe the most nothing burger narrative beat in cinema history||

[wispy lichen]

||phasma could’ve been so cool. YOU HAVE BRIENNE OF TARTH. USE HER. ||

[wispy vortex]

This flaw really comes to the forefront in Legacy of the Force hint hint

Ok I’m done

[silk solar]

||TLJ luke catches his kid watching one andrew tate video and puts him up for adoption||

[wispy lichen]

Oooh Duck what did you think of the ||Mary Poppins|| scene

[silk solar]

I will say nothing in this film was as offensive as IX ||the c3pO mind wipe nonesense||

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/mary-poppins-yondu-starlord-guardians-of-the-galaxy-gif-13875380

[silk solar]

sighs

[wispy lichen]

It was worse in theaters because (TLJ) ||Carrie had just died so it felt all sad and “oh so this is how she goes, huh?” And NOPE ||

[wispy vortex]

||They had the perfect moment to let her die||

[silk solar]

||me when im in the middle of a fight yeah im goddamn rebel scum skywalker for life you chrome tin can gaslighting narcissistic rebellion hell yeah||

[wispy lichen]

||and then Poe could have carried on her legacy as a glorious commander but nah||

[silk solar]

|| I think the finale of the movie and the tension between po and the vice admiral is far stronger if she just dies||

[wispy vortex]

We needed Wedge to become Poe’s mentor and curb his more reckless instincts 😔

[silk solar]

||also doesnt the same call get answered in the next film lmao||

[wispy lichen]

||and Poe has to step up and be the man and lead and it’s great||

[silk solar]

||i feel like all of this is obvious scriptwriting||

||make this the full passing of the torch||

[wispy vortex]

They are allergic to passing the torch

Even the music

The force theme was turned into the “hey remember this from the OT?” Theme

They played it for Lando

[silk solar]

Im not even going to fight the battle on how they locked themselves into a style and never iterated

[wispy lichen]

you know what is the best at passing the torch

[wispy vortex]

the MCU

[wispy lichen]

I was gonna say NJO

[wispy vortex]

True and based

[lavish flame]

TLJ ||I assumed she'd die in the superman scene because I heard she'd passed irl and hadn't been following the filming schedule so I thought they'd write her out. And I said, "okay, yeah, that's tragic but it's a good enough send off" and then FLEW BACK and i was stunned.||

[lavish flame]

||In general I feel like they wrote all 3 characters at the start with very little idea what they're going to do with them.||

||There's a vague idea of passing the torch but they're never sure how hard to commit to it.||

[supple star]

Solo Comand 4 ||Looks like Donos is starting to like Lara, I don’t think it’s going to be pretty when he finds out she’s Gara||

[supple star]

4 ||Yikes Myn, you call that flirting||

[broken smelt]

TFA ||They specifically point out in ep 7 that the navy/military was all destroyed along with the Hosnian system||

[broken smelt]

I think it's important to remember that ||Luke didn't refuse to fight Vader. He said he wouldn't, but then he absolutely did. And was so consumed by anger that he almost "beat" him to death. Before he got ahold of himself, calmed down, and made an intentional choice||

[unkempt sail]

got this far last night and was 😬 through that whole scene

[silk solar]

||so the entire military was on one planet?||

[silk solar]

So

What is up fellow star wars fans

[wispy vortex]

Not the moon…

https://tenor.com/view/death-star-gif-14758637425007366681

[silk solar]

I know i am half a decade list but here are the realistic changes i would make to fix the sequel trilogy

[unkempt sail]

1. have an overall plan for it lol

[wispy lichen]

I like that Duck started the movie and immediately was hating

[wispy vortex]

We primed him well

[silk solar]

||1. Make rey’s parents nobodies. This does not change
2. The empire and the republic are somewhat equal in terms of military force
3. The republic essentially worships the heroes of the original trilogy, esp luke. Worshiping heroes is now a major theme with the first order worshipping Palpatine and Vader
4. Finn’s defection causes a major shake in the FO’s confidence, and he is then public enemy number 1. Ep 8 is about him coming terms with what he did, dalinae style, and at the end of that movie he becomes a leader for defecting FO members
5. Rey is a luke stan. The reason why luke lost faith is bc of Mark Hamill’s chosen backstory, which us actually very dark
6. End of ep 8 is rey deciding there needs to be a new jedi order with different rules, with luke’s blessing.
7. Idk how to fix the FO without just writing the movie, but there should be some ways to make them interesting.
8. Oh leia dies at the beginning of ep 8 and po is forced into a leadership role||

I think that is enough

[silk solar]

Tbf i hated ep 9 on release

Ep 8 doesnt work both as a movie and as a star wars entry

[wispy vortex]

4 is meh, like half the rebellion are Imperial defectors, they’re used to it

Hell, even Han Solo

[silk solar]

Is that established in the movies?

Specifically with the FO?

[wispy vortex]

The FO is the empire with the serial numbers filed off

[silk solar]

That would be another thing fixed

[wispy vortex]

You should read Legends, it’s so much better

Minor Legends ||After ROTJ, the Empire splits into various factions and independent warlords. There isn’t an official peace settlement for decades||

||The rebels have to play the factions off each other while grabbing as much as they can for themselves||

[wispy lichen]

I hated 9 too

I think 8 is objectively the better movie but I do prefer 9 (but that’s like a 2/10 vs a 3/10)

[wispy vortex]

I hated 7 as soon as I realized it was just ANH again

I really wanted the Thrawn trilogy

It functions so much better as a sequel

[silk solar]

I think 8 didnt follow through on meh decisions. 9 had literally no chance of being good at any point in development

[wispy lichen]

Legends does a surprisingly good job of making lore sense for books published by a bunch of random authors

[unkempt sail]

They definitely talked more to each other than JJ and Rian did, jeez

[wispy lichen]

Yeah.

[autumn hemlock]

JJ and Rian and JJ

[echo echo]

George Lucas did exercise some nonzero amount of central editorial control over the EU

[wispy vortex]

Before starting NJO, all the authors sat down together and planned it out

[wispy vortex]

It was him randomly saying “don’t do this, I don’t like this” and half the time the authors ignored him

Like with Mara Jade

[echo echo]

Disney was going really hard in the paint with the "total directorial level control" idea for both Star Wars and Marvel at the time and I think they've backed off that for both properties in recent years

[echo echo]

Sure and a lot of it was simply gating off certain time periods for his own use as well

But nonzero is nonzero

[wispy lichen]

NJO is the best planned, definitely.

[broken smelt]

Yeah it's worth remembering that Lucasfilm had JJ writing a treatment for the entire trilogy before Disney pressure scrapped it (before it was finished, I think).

Which I think is why 9 feels so much like a follow up to 7. I'm guessing with it unexpectedly thrown at him with such a time crunch (another bad Disney decision not to delay 9) he just defaulted to some of those ideas he already had

[dense lance]

I wish everyone with plans on how to fix Star Wars to file all the Star Wars references off and publish it as a fantasy series

people don't even remember the sequels well enough to notice

it's free money

[wispy lichen]

People do this and release Reylo fanfics as actual books 😭

[supple star]

Was just about to say that

[dense lance]

exactly

-# like just replace Rose with Poe and make it a gay fantasy series about a charismatic and Machiavellian knight who befriends a traitorous soldier and turns him into a weapon to send against their enemies. BUT in the course of their training he catches feels and stops the soldier from completing his mission out of love

[silk solar]

Considering everyone would write different series, you can pick a book at random and convince yourself it is a response to star wars

[bitter trail]

every good story i read heals star wars in my mind

i think to myself, that's star wars baby

[silk solar]

isnt healing star wars what sun eater tried to do

sorry about that one too

[bitter trail]

oh ew

[silk solar]

What new star wars is coming out? There is a mando movie right?

[wispy lichen]

Only TBD things I think are definite are HTTE and Jedi 3

[silk solar]

Interesting

Where is the timeline is starfighter?

[wispy lichen]

Post Rise of Skywalker

[silk solar]

[wispy lichen]

Tbf it’s either there or Old Republic. Every other era is so bloated and ruined already.

[silk solar]

Matt smith is in it? Ryan gosling? Amy adams?

Crazy

[silk solar]

Star wars def needs to not fill in the same 30 year stretch anymore

[wispy lichen]

Well Post RotJ is a bit hard because we know what happens to the New Republic, Luke, Leia, Han, etc.

And it’s all a bit fruitless for those characters

Hence the Mandalorian and Ahsoka being the stuff using that era

Something that isn’t brought up enough tbh is that (Sequels) ||Leia and Han separated 😭 || like that’s DEPRESSING

[silk solar]

Oh yeah

Why dont they mention that in the movies

[wispy lichen]

They do in 7

[silk solar]

Oh yeah i forgor

[echo echo]

Interesting that Jedi Fallen Order 3 isn't on that list in any way

Oh wait never mind

There's no good way to refer to it but I do feel like "Respawn's Jedi 3" is among the less clear somehow lmao

[wispy lichen]

Yeah lol

That’s one that for sure is coming

Excited for the day it does

[echo echo]

Also Eragon

[echo echo]

I'm still on tenterhooks about it. EA is.... lets call it unpredictable right now

[silk solar]

I give a eragon a pass Christopher was 8 months old when he wrote it

[wispy lichen]

WS 14 || Kell is so believably neurotic it’s relatable lol||

[autumn hemlock]

It really is impressive how EA's business decisions have made me hesitant about what should be a hypothetical future slam dunk

[echo echo]

It isn't so much about EA directly as it is some Saudi prince deciding Respawn isn't worth hanging onto and killing JFO 3 in the cradle for no reason

Some of that is reflective of real instability on the Apex side of things, and I have no way of knowing how much of that falling apart is Respawn's fault and how much is EA's fault

[lavish flame]

It's so funny. Maul must be one of the most covered characters in all of new canon.

It's okay Filoni, you can just let this dude die.

Honestly it might be worth it to just full send it and go into the far future of the galaxy now.

Like five thousand years into the future.

[echo echo]

I think Maul is still somewhat attached to that mini-MCU idea they had in the mid to late 2010s

The idea was Solo was going to be the start of a scum and villainy Avengers lineup that was going to be aimed at taking down a crime ring on Tatooine run by Maul, but then Solo did badly and they pulled the ripcord

And then Mando took off so they repurposed what they had into gems like Kenobi and Book of Boba Fett

So needless to say I am not terribly excited for the Maul project

[wispy vortex]

Rebels + Andor ||I forgot that the Ghorman Massacre is mentioned in Rebels!||

[wispy vortex]

Isn’t it going to be an adaptation of Dark Disciple?

[silk solar]

lore question

how tf is maul alive

and when is his movie set

[wispy vortex]

Clone Wars ||Short version: Dark side kept him alive long enough to save himself. Ended up on a scrap yard planet and built himself legs. Went a bit crazy||

[silk solar]

interesting

[wispy lichen]

It’s a show. Should be post Clone Wars pre Rebels.

[echo echo]

I don't know how it could be

[wispy lichen]

The Star Wars show I think we actually need rn is the next phase of the Clone Saga with all the loose ends from Bad Batch

[wispy lichen]

Nah. That was in the recent Tales show.

[wispy vortex]

||Wait this literally follows directly after Andor S2||

[echo echo]

Rebels/Andor ||Ghorman Massacre has been around for a long time||

[wispy lichen]

||Andor set up to build into it because it’s so important to Mothma’s character ||

||that scene is one of the most important in Rebels (Mothma leaving the Senate)||

[wispy vortex]

I just completely forgot about it, its been too long since Ive seen Rebels

[wispy lichen]

Rebels is really good

Love Rebels

[wispy vortex]

Same

[wispy lichen]

Since Legends early days yeah

[supple star]

It will have to do with ||him training an apprentice (Talon) and his rule over the crime syndicates||

[wispy lichen]

||ugh I forgot about Talon ew||

I blocked that getting canonized with this show out of my mind

[supple star]

I am excited for some more Clone Wars style animation, they really have perfected it with Bad Batch and Tales

I don’t really know how much more there is to do with Maul though

[wispy lichen]

I’m always down for animated stuff

I just would prefer a sequel to TBB

Because we actually need that lol

[supple star]

A show about ||Omega as a pilot in the Rebel Alliance|| would be really awesome.

[wispy vortex]

Give us Rogue Squadron 😭

[supple star]

Can you imagine Xwings in that style

Peak

[silk solar]

what would be everyone's ideal star wars show

you cannot adapt something from Legends

[supple star]

An anthology series about droids

[wispy vortex]

We already have that

[silk solar]

boy do i have news for you

[wispy vortex]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Droids

[wispy lichen]

A lone Jedi having to travel the galaxy and log different views of the force, going on a philosophical journey and even falling to the dark before returning to the light with an individualistic view on the force

[wispy vortex]

Wait a second...

[wispy lichen]

… I had the idea before Jacen did it lmao.

[silk solar]

isnt that mushishi

[wispy vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-suspect-gif-22611582

[silk solar]

monkeygirl plagarizes good to know

[wispy lichen]

Plus this is more a focus on the journey and not the aftermath

I felt inspired while playing SWTOR and you go to Voss with Force Mystics

Plus there’s the Nightsisters

And more I’m not thinking of lol

So it would be like someone from the Jedi archives logging info for them

[wispy vortex]

Theres so many in Legends

[wispy lichen]

A desk worker forced to actually confront the realities of the force basically

[wispy lichen]

Yessss. This and ||the Clone Rebellion. Commander Cody. || lots of interesting ground left to cover.

[silk solar]

i think a small scale story would be interesting. isolated planet, no jedi or sith. dark and light side users but filtered through the individual cultures. contact is made partway into the series and now they have to choose between the republic and the empire

[wispy vortex]

How about a Republic Commando series

[wispy lichen]

A show about the Mandalorian Wars would be cool

[echo echo]

I'd love to see something done with the SWTOR base game cold war setting that was more interesting than what SWTOR actually did with it

[wispy lichen]

I am a fan of the setting

[echo echo]

A Republic and an Empire that are evenly matched, crumbling under different kinds of pressures, and forced to tolerate each other in the short term seems like prime Star Wars storytelling backdrop to me

[wispy lichen]

I like the game too, but it is mostly to live out the main Star Wars fantasies, not tell that story of the era in a meaningful way