Destiny

[drowsy salmon]

Well.

One of the boss arenas for Court of Blades is on Io, in the old Cabal base.

It seems to maybe be chillin in the Ascendant Plane?

[hollow rover]

not sure about how I feel about the setting for the next destiny expac

Destiny 2 all ||really enjoy the abandoned desert brutalist half of the nines' aesthetic. Really dislike the noisy cyberpunk other half 😔 ||

[mossy sage]

Did something leak?

[sinful hare]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/fps/we-dont-expect-marathon-to-become-destiny-3-bungie-reckons-if-you-are-a-destiny-player-whos-not-really-interested-in-any-pvp-marathon-is-probably-not-the-game-for-you/

Kind of captain obvious stuff, but it's interesting that he thinks Destiny PvPers will have a bit of an initial advantage because of their familiarity with Bungie gunplay.

[mossy sage]

That's kind of the Marathon problem though isn't it?

There's a whole lot of "this game might not be for you if"s and not a whole lot of clarity on who it is for

[quaint scroll]

I have a feeling they never got around to figuring that out

[mossy sage]

I think they're Kevin Costnering

If they build it someone's gonna show up

[somber lava]

There’s also a whole lot of “they really can’t turn the ship from alpha to launch if who this mystery crowd they planned for doesn’t exist”

D1’s alpha to beta to launch was from April to September
Marathon’s alpha to beta to launch will also be from April to September

The alpha to beta to launch process is really just to iron out the network kinks and maybe a touch of balance tweaking, but other than that what’s done is done

[mossy sage]

I think they're aware their initial impression didn't land, because they've been making a lot of noise about this mystery fourth map that is supposed to have "raid mechanics" of some kind on it

Which like

If that's your selling point

Just make a Destiny Raid

[somber lava]

Yah someone just flat out said map 4 will be The Marathon

The game is going to be balanced around how many people can extract out of the map
50% of people are planned to survive map 1
40% map 2
30% map 3
And when you’re ready, Map 4 The Marathon has the best doubloons, and only 20% of people will survive

[mossy sage]

I wonder how they come up with those numbers

Are there mechanics that enforce survival rates?

Prox chat aside, the Tarkov Wiggle is a thing

[somber lava]

Other extraction shooters have maps balanced this way

Some maps are balanced “”easy”” for those down on their luck or perpetual nooblings

Other maps are balanced brutal but with a pirates hoard of treasures

[sinful hare]

They're hoping to pull some Destiny PvPers, some Tarkov and Hunt players, some Apex players, and some people who just think it looks cool.

They nerfed their graphics in order to have really low system requirements for kids playing on craptops.

This is still essentially the 2020 D2 engine with almost all the upgrades being in netcode and network security.

The issue is that the kids on craptops probably won't be able to upfront $40.

FWIW the Marathon discord and subreddit have probably an even split of Destiny PvPers and escapees from Tarkov.

[mossy sage]

I think the most fascinating comparison metrics are going to be Marathon vs Deadlock

[sinful hare]

Hilariously one of the complaints from the Tarkov contingent was vault space. Bungo is probably going to have bigger vaults at launch than in the alpha.

Biggest complaint from everyone is prox chat and Bungo haven't said anything on that.

[mossy sage]

Deadlock and Marathon aren't really chasing the same crowd at all (insofar as Marathon can even be said to be chasing a crowd at all), but there are a lot of other similarities that make them good comparison points

[sinful hare]

https://vxtwitter.com/NAPainter_/status/1912427671180415306

NAPainter_ (@[email protected])

In case ya'll needed proof I can't Paint like my name sake would suggest, this was 10 minutes of effort its supposed to be explicator

vxTwitter / fixvx · Apr 16, 2025, 8:47 AM

[subtle sorrel]

with all the feedback i would be shocked if they stay strong on prox chat

[mossy sage]

I dunno Bungie's stayed strong on some things a lot longer than they should have

[quaint scroll]

yeah, like them doing Marathon over D3

[versed ember]

lol

[subtle sorrel]

Made my hunter in Minecraft lol

[hidden ridge]

hi i don't really go here anymore but can you guys take care of this for me bye:

[drowsy salmon]

Bungie: So we have this sequence in the middle of the raid where you do kinda a space-walk. Can you write something kind of chill and provocative?
Salvatori:

[versed ember]

Bungie: "so there's this game--"
Salvatori and co:

[mossy sage]

One of the most frustrating things about the Modern Halo Bro is that they all seem to universally think Marty O'Donnell's opinion is doctrine and they have no idea who Michael Salvatori or any of Bungie's other composers are, or what they've done without Marty

[drowsy salmon]

Yep. Like, it's not even just Salvatori who made Destiny's music so good. Folks like Sky Lewin, Rotem Moav, etc have done more than their fair share.

[sinful hare]

Deep Stone Lullaby in particular was a Michael Sechrist track.

[mossy sage]

It is wild to me that I got a Marathon code when I'm seeing the kinds of people who did not

I'm kind of thinking Bungie did more random selection than maybe they should have

[quaint scroll]

your sacrifice shall be honored

[sinful hare]

I didn't apply, unfortunately I have no time during the alpha window.

GL HF

Idk if Deci got in.

I like how all the corps in new-Marathon are already developing reputations despite the very minimal lore around them.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1306389618089787454/1361259865476960296/C66CFF46-0349-4A8D-AA25-447C933BFDEE.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1306389618089787454/1361223752871841852/averagetraxusjobsite.gif

Poor Traxus.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866496201200369686/1360472197453582498/nuber_eats_delivery.gif

NuCaloric is all food memes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1306389618089787454/1361451027789775010/SEKGENOUTCONCEPT.gif

Nobody's messing w. Sekiguchi tho, seeing as they developed the tech to allow the player characters to exist.

[fervent gazelle]

hey, at least the safety harness worked this time

[drowsy salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4utXKvOpYM

[blissful surge]

I think vesper dungeon was the last time I played D2 so like hmmm I should probably get through some of the stuff before they remove it

[drowsy salmon]

The new season is a blast in terms of gameplaly, imo.

Nether gives you a good, tactical challenge if you're into that, and Court of Blades is just a fun romp of a boss-rush.

[raw lake]

Oh damn new trailer

Uh any speculation

[versed ember]

Same lol

[sinful hare]

Is that some kind of Mass Relay?

https://youtu.be/BDq4a6PqAvM?si=IMM7higaE7EBX2lA

[subtle sorrel]

marathon alpha today. im psyched!

[somber lava]

Lore man streaming da game

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz862FYVQb0&pp=0gcJCYQJAYcqIYzv

[mossy sage]

FYI for those of you trying to do all the seasonal stuff before it expires, be advised that each act of each season has an (inexplicable) weekly reset cooldown

[somber lava]

Ah i see, imma just let it all expire then
No thank you actual BS nonsense

[mossy sage]

I'm doing it because I paid for it but so far none of it has been particularly thrilling

[drowsy salmon]

A member of the Cryptarchy server sent this.

[somber lava]

https://tenor.com/view/akira-leave-me-alone-leave-me-alone-meme-gif-6420351794930725971

[drowsy salmon]

I mean yes. But look closely at the whole picture.

[sinful hare]

I didn't buy em so I'm not doing them. Will see if Frontiers looks interesting tho. Destiny still does have more devs on it than Marathon (500 to 300 according to Tassi).

Destiny being still alive does have the wonderful positive side effect of not having to miss it. Because, it is still there, there's the sense of just being able to hop on whenever. But I haven't actually hopped on since Echoes.

[drowsy salmon]

Damn, even if you start now? That's....bizzare.

[sinful hare]

Actually same idea with Warframe even tho I haven't hopped on since 2018. It's fun to hear that Ash Prime is somehow good again and my riven'd up Amprex is somehow still relevant.

[mossy sage]

I would unironically love it if Nether became the baseline for Destiny difficulty

This is a lot of fun

[versed ember]

When doth it expire?

[mossy sage]

Whenever nextpansion comes out

[somber lava]

If the Timer on the battlepass is not altered with, it will be in July

[mossy sage]

The difference in quality between Heresy and the other two Episodes is unreal

It is so much better

[drowsy salmon]

See? It's actually good. Nether is a home run. Court of Blades isn't as difficult, but it's still a fun challenge to see how much you can just slay out in 10 minutes.

[mossy sage]

Just off Nether alone I think Heresy would rank near the top of seasonal activities

Both other seasons would rank bottom five

Episodes

Whatever

[drowsy salmon]

Same difference.

It's a shame, because both of the Revenant seasonal activities were based on other things that were extremely well received (Onslaught and the Coil, respectively). The absolute awful loot framework of the season killed them entirely though.

Hell, I don't even know if the gameplay for them is good, I haven't played enough of either to decide.

[mossy sage]

The potions are, so far as I can tell, still broken

[versed ember]

I'm probably gonna play at least Heresy after schools out in a few weeks

[mossy sage]

They're reiussing Arrivals gear

Arrivals was just last season wasn't it?

[drowsy salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

[versed ember]

I have some news for ya

[sinful hare]

https://tenor.com/view/moai-gif-5632516

[raw lake]

Is it time to come back

[mossy sage]

It isn't a bad time, for sure

Heresy is good

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah it’s a pretty decent time to hop in, as most end-of-year seasons tend to be.

[raw lake]

I just feel like I missed so much, like I hear you guys have side arm missiles now?

And like I rather just let the seasonal content get vaulted, don't wanna be hit with 100 new missions

[mossy sage]

The green ammo sidearms are excellent

But you get the good one from Final Shape, not seasonal

[drowsy salmon]

Well, the seasonal one is also quite good.

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/paultassi/status/1917586030338912591

Paul Tassi (@PaulTassi) on X

okay thought it was clear this wasn't $275 for just the game content, but I guess not. It's the CE, but the issue is that this means the year is likely again $100 with less content than past years with two smaller expansions and no real seasons or episodes

X · Apr 30, 2025, 2:25 PM

[drowsy salmon]

Huh? Did Bungie announce something?

[quaint scroll]

either that or Paul touched way too much grass

[fervent gazelle]

full context, technically leaks

[somber lava]

Nah, there’s a chess puzzle in game

Like actual chess

[fervent gazelle]

I know for a fact this does not have to do with the puzzle going on. Players aren’t going to complete that and pre-orders go live or something, which would be impossibly lame. So you can dismiss that idea out of hand.

[mossy sage]

The CE (and only the CE) got listed briefly before being taken down. Same price as the Final Shape CE, so the assumption is that all of the forthcoming Year will be the same price as Final Shape

As for Paul's tweet, it seems like some people do not understand that it is the CE and not the base game price

[sinful hare]

Uh why we talking about Combat Evolved today?

[fervent gazelle]

-# Collectors Edition

[subtle sorrel]

unironically if this was the price tag it would probably excite me? like if they were willing to charge that much we would be in for an insane year of d2

[mossy sage]

I mean we do already know what we're getting in terms of scope

Two Rise of Irons, no episodes/seasons in between

In no world is that worth $275

[subtle sorrel]

yes i know that. i was speaking purely hypothetically lol

[raw lake]

Any pictures of it?

I'm like an avid collector, I still got my destiny 1, ttk, and destiny 2 CE set

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/destinybulletn/status/1918436286601249258

Destiny Bulletin (@DestinyBulletn) on X

🚨NEW: Court has denied Bungie’s motion to dismiss the Destiny 2 Red War lawsuit, rejecting the YouTube videos and fan wikis Bungie submitted as proof, calling them "third-party origination" with "authenticity not established."

https://t.co/c244GI0jKq

X · May 2, 2025, 10:43 PM

The courts are coming for Byf

[somber lava]

So bro is actually going to win because of how sloppy Bungie was at maintaining their own damn records

[somber lava]

Is Miyazaki or Kojimbo in charge of Edge of fate?
https://x.com/destiny_thememe/status/1918322230162854193

D2 Postin' ⬛️⬜️🟪 (@destiny_thememe) on X

X · May 2, 2025, 3:10 PM

[mossy sage]

Not necessarily. This just means the judge isn't willing to laugh him out of the courtroom just yet

[drowsy salmon]

It would be hilarious and amazing if this is what eventually lead to the Red War being playable again.

[mossy sage]

I genuinely wonder to what degree it even exists at Bungie

In a weird way, it is really bad for Bungie if they can't provide some version of Red War

Because then they have to prove it doesn't meaningfully exist, which means turning a whole hell of a lot over for discovery

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/joegoroth/status/1918446547173273781

Joe Blackburn (@joegoroth) on X

-Players don't realize they can bake cookies
-Okay, add a quest to bake a cookie
-Players are baking cookies before getting to the quest asking them to bake cookies and are complaining they don't have ingredients
-Okay, just arrest any new player that gets within 50m of an oven

X · May 2, 2025, 11:24 PM

[hollow rover]

welp I'm hyped for Edge of Fate now

[mossy sage]

https://youtu.be/b8rKv5YIDlg

[drowsy salmon]

Without watching it, I'd call it the definition of mixed bag.

• Echoes: Not the worst, not particularly good either.
• Revenant: Giant doo-doo
• Heresey: Peak

[subtle sorrel]

the ||skolas|| mission was fun in revenant. It was kinda lame they massively increased the emblem drop rate after like a day

[mossy sage]

That was about it. Most of it was talking about Heresy (which he is less hot on than you are) but the TLDR was "was this even an experiment, this is just more seasons"

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah it really was.

[mossy sage]

He spends so little time talking about the alleged premise of the video I think in part because he didn't know how to evaluate it as an experiment when it barely felt like it was one

Far be it from Datto to be shy about sharing an opinion of course

[drowsy salmon]

I think the biggest difference is that, in sum total, we got three exotic missions this year, when we got one or two in previous years.

[mossy sage]

And he is clear that he thinks the episodes did not pay out the marketingspeak Bungie poured into them

[drowsy salmon]

They never do.

The only way Bungie will be able to swing the kind of change they talk about is if they do D3.

[fervent gazelle]

*less seasons

[drowsy salmon]

Unless it's awful and doesn't look good at all, I'll probably get Edge of Fate. But I'm expecting it will just be more D2.

[drowsy salmon]

I mean, in terms of content, the episodes did have slightly more than the average season. So it adds up to a similar ammount of stuff over the whole year.

[mossy sage]

What do you mean? The last time they switched up the model was when they switched to seasons and I don't think the seasons have broadly been other than what they initially pitched them as

[drowsy salmon]

Again, the only part of this that feels remotely different is the release schedule. Which Bungie kinda bungled because people complained about having to wait for the Echoes schedule.

[drowsy salmon]

Bungie also said they were trying to switch things up and do novel things with seasons last year. It's where the tarot cards and the Coil came from.

[mossy sage]

Datto also thinks a "lack" of narrative continuity is a change worth noting

[mossy sage]

Ah okay

I see what you're saying

[drowsy salmon]

Heresey only had a few hiccups with the narrative continuity, because they largely learned their lesson with how absolutely mangled Revenant's narrative was.

[mossy sage]

I mean between episodes

[drowsy salmon]

Oh. Gotcha.

[mossy sage]

No glue holding them together, just disparate epilogues to various storylines after FS

[drowsy salmon]

Seasons were a mixed bag in that regard. Not all of them were as coherent as the throughline from Arrivals -> Witch Queen

[mossy sage]

That's true but it did normally feel like that was the intent if nothing else

Playing all three episodes concurrently almost feels like the optimal way to do it narratively

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah. Episodes very much had the feel of "well we don't know what we want to do next, let's just tie up some threads and try (and fail abysmally) to do something with the Vex."

[mossy sage]

Except I suppose for ||HELM crashing|| at the start of Heresy

Which, a little on the nose there Bungo

[drowsy salmon]

First proper Vex season since Undying...and instead they gave us Yuri vs Yaoi

[mossy sage]

I get what they were going for

And that's about as much credit as I can give

[drowsy salmon]

I'm not gonna even give them that. Bungie literally doesn't know how to write the Vex as anything but puppets for a non-Vex master.

Yes I'm channeling my best Redditor right now, that's now salty I am.

[somber lava]

I have been begging bungo for years, just make Vex Shockwave as the Vex Big Bad

The character writes itself

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wECn0B-FlU8&pp=ygUTc2hvY2t3YXZlIGlsbG9naWNhbA%3D%3D

[half night]

Prime Shockwave is fricking awesome

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/destiny_thememe/status/1919568993699926261

D2 Postin' ⬛️⬜️🟪 (@destiny_thememe) on X

X · May 6, 2025, 1:44 AM

Be careful out there I guess

[drowsy salmon]

Lmao one of the leaks is in this picture

Might want to put spoiler bars on it

[somber lava]

May 6th was Stream day anyway, right, so that’s probably why

[drowsy salmon]

Pre stream music is up

https://www.twitch.tv/bungie

[sinful hare]

In honor of the stream today, here is a birb near me doing its best Sweet Business impression:

Lil guy can really spool up.

Strim ||oh damn she makin her own fate.||

[mossy sage]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo not more developer interviews

[sinful hare]

We couch today

[mossy sage]

There is a version of this that works!

Bungie has if anything gotten worse at it over the years, however

[somber lava]

Strim ||so we just leavin’ that pyramid chillin there in orbit, huh||

[sinful hare]

Yeah this is not their comfiest couch

Strim ||ooh we a Saga again||

[mossy sage]

Fate Saga (?) ||Isn't the whole point of paracausality the ability to defy fate?||

[somber lava]

Strim ||finally ‘The Nine’ C plot is the A plot||

[mossy sage]

Hilariously they're looking at reclassifying Pluto as a planet

(As well as several other bigger bodies in the solar system)

[sinful hare]

clear yr orbit

[somber lava]

{Neil Tyson grinds his teeth in frustration somewhere}

[sinful hare]

https://tenor.com/view/joseph-joestar-kars-your-next-gif-24143723

context not required

[mossy sage]

Stream ||Is that the Tangled Shore in there somewhere?||

[somber lava]

Funni D1 sniper

[sinful hare]

That was a heckin cool trailer

HE'S BACK

The man

[mossy sage]

As with Bungie getting worse at the couch, they've gotten better at the trailer

[sinful hare]

The myth

The legend

Dave Samuels

[mossy sage]

The stache

[somber lava]

Sir, that’s not your job. Your job is to make the funni noises

[sinful hare]

Oort Cloud

It's really dark out there IRL

[mossy sage]

Can we delete Nessus now?

[sinful hare]

WTF is this place being lit by?

It's clearly not sunlight

[mossy sage]

Mood

[somber lava]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-magic-secret-snort-snort-rowan-atkinson-gif-16998141

[sinful hare]

Strim ||those Corsairs are neat||

[mossy sage]

Stream ||Honestly shocked they're giving us a new Destination here||

[sinful hare]

||Imp Swarm is neat too||

[mossy sage]

||Legendary Destintations!||

Honestly

I'm about that

[somber lava]

||prepare for 500000000 imps swarm||

[mossy sage]

DMG and Dave saving this couch tbh

[sinful hare]

||Matterspark||??

Matter

There's an old word Bungo fans overthought

[mossy sage]

I was thinking the same thing

[raw lake]

|| Is that a new subclaass or like? ||

[sinful hare]

This is weird.

[mossy sage]

Unclear

[somber lava]

https://tenor.com/view/red-ball-bandana-brigade-rolling-gif-17723748

[sinful hare]

https://tenor.com/view/pondering-pondering-my-orb-my-orb-orb-pondering-my-pondering-my-orb-orb-gif-24060364

[mossy sage]

I guess they saw how well the Pale Heart landed

||This looks to be building on that||

||If Bungie is going to keep putting significant resources into Destinations at all, might as well make them good||

[somber lava]

||sweet, House of Exile Fallen confirmed. They were on Da Moon in D1||

||Purple fallen are out. Green fallen are in||

[sinful hare]

They should absolutely try to take the '2' off the name of the game at this point. It's so useless.

[mossy sage]

||Have we seen non-Fallen enemies yet?||

[somber lava]

||imps are vex smoll boys||

[sinful hare]

Dark matter in our world is pathetic and possibly in the room with us now.

[mossy sage]

DMG is actively memeing now

[sinful hare]

"like bleach and math"

[mossy sage]

He can feel the cringe

Keep fighting the good fight man

[somber lava]

||PREARE FOR VEX STRIKE WITH BEEG IMP ||

[sinful hare]

New character: 🤓

[mossy sage]

||Do glasses even make sense in Destiny?||

[raw lake]

|| Maybe its a fashion statement ||

[sinful hare]

"Robbie wanted a senpai" lmao

[mossy sage]

||It strikes me as notably unDestiny somehow||

||Ikora makes a meaningful contribution for the first time since Witch Queen, noted||

||Do we think this is where Efrideet ended up?||

||Or is that just a fully dropped plot at this point||

Those are entirely new difficulty names

I wonder if that's gonna be A Thing going forward

[sinful hare]

I think they're just for this event.

[somber lava]

Pantheon 2.0 effectively

[mossy sage]

These are all existing dungeons right?

[somber lava]

Yes

[mossy sage]

I feel like they're being deliberately confusing

They're making it sound like this event has three new dungeons

[somber lava]

Just Nine-ified the dungeon guns

[sinful hare]

Free now tho

It's basically trying to introduce people who did not buy Dungeons to the content

[fervent gazelle]

I just tuned in and I legit thought "3 new dungeons! "

[mossy sage]

Newly free, I think

[fervent gazelle]

yeah no, that makes much more sense

[mossy sage]

But I was looking at it thinking "that's just Spire"

[somber lava]

Guns in 3 dungeons are given a Nine reskin and reperked

[mossy sage]

Maybe that Spire Scout will get to be good, finally

Long Shot? Is that what that gun was called?

I do not like this Portal

At least not this version

[sinful hare]

They've put some ancient concept art into this new UI

[mossy sage]

Aztecross' chat hates it too

[somber lava]

This looks infinitely more confusing for the newbies, yah

[raw lake]

|| Looking at the stream ngl i wanna work at bungie, studio looks cool ||

[mossy sage]

A lot of people do, famously

It is A Problem because there's a Bungie Tax the same way there's a Blizzard Tax

[raw lake]

|| this or Riot games ||

what is a Bungie Tax

[mossy sage]

You get paid less for the same work working at Bungie than you would at most other companies in the business

Because a lot of people want to work there

It is oversupplied relative to other devs

[raw lake]

Ah ic

[sinful hare]

Passion is exploitable.

[raw lake]

So like the "This is your dream job, aint it" kinda reasoning

[mossy sage]

THEY CALLED IT A SEASON

[drowsy salmon]

I keep tuning out so hard

[mossy sage]

THEY CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES

[drowsy salmon]

The yapping is...really not good

I have...thoughts on both the new content and the reveal format.

[fervent gazelle]

🌍 🧑‍🚀 🔫 🧑‍🚀

[raw lake]

Im just playing a game while strim is in backround, and will visually watch when a cutscene comes out

[somber lava]

Bungo cannot live chat on the couch for the life of them

Other studios can, but bungo is a hard no

[sinful hare]

Oh yeah we finally going beyond Grandmaster: Ultimate

[mossy sage]

I think they probably could if they just un-sterilized it

DMG is a chill dude! Just let him be a chill dude!

[drowsy salmon]

The first time it was...cringe enough that it was kinda entertaining at least.

Now it's just boring.

The host guy repeating the same canned intro and "haha laugh at me" jokes.

[sinful hare]

They dunking on the casual/solo players, that's probably not intentional.

[fervent gazelle]

wait, which one is DMG?

[mossy sage]

To be fair, that is what it looks like. It is one of these more juiced seasons with the Yearly ability to move the plot forward because they called it an expansion

[mossy sage]

Far left

[raw lake]

I though dmg is at Riot games now

[sinful hare]

They called it Rise of Iron size.

[somber lava]

Was

[mossy sage]

Very briefly

[fervent gazelle]

he came back IIRC

[raw lake]

Wait wtf

xD

[drowsy salmon]

As for the content, EoF ||there's some really interesting stuff they're showing off! But also I'm incredibly disappointed that all the ability time has apparently gone in to a destinational gimick, and not adding 4th aspects for Sunbreaker, Gunslinger, and Voidwalker||

[raw lake]

Crazy switch up

[sinful hare]

He came back for the >$200k Bungo offered.

[raw lake]

Ayo

[mossy sage]

He left, was replaced by Liana Rupert, they laid a whole bunch of people off (including Liana Rupert), and brought him back in with a hefty pay bump

[somber lava]

Bungo said, “Plz come back, we will give you a gigabillion money!”

[sinful hare]

Armor 3.0 mentioned

Shadowkeep referenced

[raw lake]

Where is 3rd darkness sublcass tho

[fervent gazelle]

new armor same as the old armor

[mossy sage]

Bleh, I don't want to chase armor

This is a very hard point to sell me on

[fervent gazelle]

I wonder where they found the effect budget to essentially make every amor set a second exotic

[mossy sage]

The set bonuses have to be real cool for me to want them

[sinful hare]

This is definitely a sunsetting / new grind start for armor.

[raw lake]

strim || Oh I love this tier system ||

[somber lava]

Prepare for a second Loot Gate scandal on Armor drops

[drowsy salmon]

Hmm the UI bloat

[sinful hare]

I remember when this UI was minimalist.

[drowsy salmon]

Also, the menu background is almost the exact same color as Discord gray

"After 10 years of Destiny, this is gonna flip some of this stuff on its head"
X

[mossy sage]

I read a thing that this is A Thing Games Are Doing because of second monitor stuff

[somber lava]

There’s so much UI bloat every screen they show

I don’t think Bungie understands what “We reduced the bloat” means

[mossy sage]

Devs want their games to look good with Discord also right there

[drowsy salmon]

Honestly, I feel that what they're showing isn't awful. But they're also selling it in completely the wrong way.

[fervent gazelle]

guys, I think there might be some

https://tenor.com/view/salty-salt-annoyed-irritated-angry-gif-972821844462628904

[drowsy salmon]

Like, ||New planet in the Ort Cloud? House of Exile back? New Vex units? All sounds amazing||

[sinful hare]

Their roadmap is once again using the term Season

[mossy sage]

Why is "RENEGADES" in a Star Wars font?

[raw lake]

lmao

[raw lake]

|| Outside the Oort cloud, no? Oort cloud is just space rocks I last recall ||

[drowsy salmon]

But stuff like ||the writer getting the astrophysics of it all completely wrong, Mr 🤓 doesn't seem remotely interesting, they're again selling it as a big shake-up but it looks like more D2...Yeah this is not great.||

[mossy sage]

This man is literally reading notes because he didn't know how to answer DMG's question

[sinful hare]

||SIVAaaaaa||

[somber lava]

Yooooooooooo

https://tenor.com/view/whitebeard-one-piece-aba-gif-25861590

[sinful hare]

Ok so basically what they're saying is Rise of Iron size expansions with Into The Light style updates in between them.

[drowsy salmon]

Strim ||It's really hard to tell. I initally thought the destination would be Planet Nine, and it might still be, but it's...hard to tell, when they bungled their real-world lore so hard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Nine||

[mossy sage]

This might get me back into pvp

[sinful hare]

STRIM ||PILOTABLE BRIGS||

[drowsy salmon]

||Sparrow with weapons????||

[sinful hare]

||COMBAT SPARROWS||

[mossy sage]

They've finally done it

[sinful hare]

Ok I'm actually excited about that. This is Halo crem.

[mossy sage]

They've reinvented the ||Ghost||

[somber lava]

Halo ghost Tech got dredged up from the depths

[mossy sage]

Now do the ||Banshee||

[sinful hare]

It always existed in Fallen Pikes.

[fervent gazelle]

||I won't be giving up my surf board||

[sinful hare]

We just weren't allowed to keep them.

"those poor Dregs"

[mossy sage]

Shooting range!

[sinful hare]

[mossy sage]

DPS testers everywhere rejoice

[sinful hare]

But will the numbers be accurate

[mossy sage]

Aztecross is screaming

[fervent gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/yesss-kip-napoleon-dynamite-great-gif-1259185690366968648

[mossy sage]

It has a DPS meter

[drowsy salmon]

They're saying it's meant to be...we'll see if it's accurate.

[mossy sage]

It looks like you just generate enemies so like

I can't imagine why or how it wouldn't be accurate

[sinful hare]

MossyMax be like:

https://tenor.com/view/surprise-hiding-tree-derektee-gif-18371427492525280481

[drowsy salmon]

You underestimate the Bungie spaghet

[fervent gazelle]

they said "actual damage"

or something like that

[somber lava]

The Opulent shooting range had some BORKED NUMBERS

[mossy sage]

That is unironically a fun holo effect

[drowsy salmon]

I'm sad it's only on the Solstice guns apparently

[mossy sage]

Third time's the charm right?

Right?

[somber lava]

Dregs had a 5x damage multiplier, ogres was a 0.04x multiplier

Absolute nonsense lol

[mossy sage]

(The second being Savathun's checkers on Mars)

[drowsy salmon]

Man that was so bad

[somber lava]

Yaaaaah I’m not buying this Experimenting bit

You said this with episodes

[mossy sage]

At the very least this addresses the weird season-that-launches-with-an-expansion thing

what

[quaint scroll]

Strim ||"there are aliens and there are aliens and then there are aliens, and the Nine are in that last bit" ... uhhh||

[sinful hare]

LMAO wtf is this

[mossy sage]

I uh

[raw lake]

Holly sht big collab?

[mossy sage]

My question was answered

[drowsy salmon]

Bungie just killed Destiny for me

[somber lava]

Huh

[sinful hare]

Is that an actual crossover

[fervent gazelle]

||uhh...||

[drowsy salmon]

Why

Nope, can't do this right now

[somber lava]

||so a 20000% just flat out Star Wars expansion. Sorry glam||

[quaint scroll]

||if the Nine are one in soul with eight major bodies in the solar system, I kind of feel like they're... as opposed to the definition of an "alien" as can be||

[sinful hare]

It looks like they are going with the Legally Distinct approach

Like this isn't actually a crossover in the way that one Eververse armor set was.

[raw lake]

|| raid trailer doko ||

[somber lava]

Sound effect alarm was ripped strait out of star wars , so they might be more than legally distinct

[mossy sage]

||Eliksni raid? When's the last time we got one of those? DSC?||

[sinful hare]

I think the sound effect fell into public domain

[mossy sage]

It is also possible that the sound effect is tied to an exotic that was part of the actual crossover deal with the fashion

[somber lava]

People say the Hunter’s pistol is a 1:1 recreation of Han solos gun with the barrel sawed off

[mossy sage]

Bungie must be real hard up for cash, any which way

[drowsy salmon]

I'm gonna be leaving this thread for a bit. I can't right now.

[fervent gazelle]

||Imagine doing a "Space Western" season while Cayde's dead ||

[drowsy salmon]

I

god

I cannot describe how angry I am right now.

[mossy sage]

||The second time!||

[somber lava]

Whatever happened to artistic and narrative consistency?

[mossy sage]

I mean

Even internal to Destiny that has drifted so far

[sinful hare]

Edge of Fate I think looks good.

Renegades looks not good.

Note that ||The Nine were used to cross the boundaries to the Halo and Marathon worlds so using them to break into Star Wars|| is technically narratively supported.

Dumb, yes. But legal.

Apparently legal.

[mossy sage]

It is such a bad time to take this kind of gamble

Is there an outside chance Renegades does something real cool? Yeah I guess so

But like

They have to re-sell a playerbase that what they're doing this Year is good and important and Renegades signals the opposite of both of those things on premise alone

Absolute self-own

[drowsy salmon]

okay turns out I need to rant before I can let this go

[sinful hare]

Its definitely an annual pass killer.

[somber lava]

I’ll let Edge of Fate launch and run a couple weeks and see the vibes before getting this expansion. Too much time was waisted on the couch and the UI nonsense figured out

[drowsy salmon]

but I can't decide to do it here or in #you-people people for the swearing

[sinful hare]

Let's go there

[glad wedge]

#1364954784737792102 is that way my friend

[mossy sage]

Tell that to Bungie

[quaint scroll]

strim ||I legitimately do not understand why they would call the main gimmick of the new destination "dark matter"||

||they're doubling down on stupid when they could just... like... have given it a different coat of pain and be just fine||

[sinful hare]

different coat of pain

That's a good way of describing subclasses in general.

[quaint scroll]

stream ||finally got to the Rengades reveal||

||I guess they so tried to put in references that they forgot to put anything else in||

[mossy sage]

I do not think they forgot

Language

[half night]

I'm sorry what is that Chewbacca skin?

[mossy sage]

Grievous, I think

Oh you mean the Fortnite one

Yeah I don't pretend to understand

[half night]

Yes that

[somber lava]

https://vxtwitter.com/eggbulb3/status/1919799260830183876

bulb (@[email protected])

Family ride home from Edge of Fate reveal after the Renegades expansion is revealed to be Star Wars themed

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx • GIF · May 6, 2025, 4:59 PM

[versed ember]

This really aint it

[mossy sage]

What's wild is, they stumbled right there at the end

It was fine-to-good until the Star Wars hit

Then it all spun out of control

[somber lava]

Bungo finally done did it after 11 years

One Two Trench Barrel is now a thing

https://www.light.gg/db/items/1904170910/a-sudden-death/?p=,,2679249093,,,0,0

And don’t really concern yourself about getting one of these. It just means future shotguns will have the combination too

[little frigate]

okay, as someone who hasn't watched the stream, is it actually star wars, or just the aesthetic?

[somber lava]

For real for real Star Wars

[mossy sage]

99% actually Star Wars

A Titan Darth Vader armor set

Lightsabers

Han Solo's blaster

[somber lava]

Welcome to Da IP Multiverse basically

[mossy sage]

The whole nine

[little frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-eyes-white-guy-blinking-meme-what-huh-gif-26334323

huh

[mossy sage]

That do be the vibe

[little frigate]

well that's lame

[mossy sage]

That is also the vibe

[somber lava]

Narrative and universe consistency have been sacrificed for them big Disney bucks to dig bungo out of a hole

[fervent gazelle]

Silver lining, at least it's a space sci-fi property

[spark jetty]

they should have collabed with spiderman

[mossy sage]

Honestly? That makes it worse

Feels like surrender

[little frigate]

well, i will say

i am glad i stopped at the Final Shape

really did feel like a good place to get off Bungo's ride

[mossy sage]

I'm gonna finish out the Seasons because I paid for them

Aaaaaaaand... yeah

[fervent gazelle]

My only regret is not playing the FS Raid. But I was already getting bad at being raid ready

And look at all the time I have now to doomscroll youtube play other games

[mossy sage]

I do wish Bungie had a clearer notion of who they were making games for

Because between this and Marathon, I don't think they have an idea what their potential audiences want

[fervent gazelle]

well, their target audience kinda wandered off over the past couple of years

[mossy sage]

Before the Star Wars started happening, Glam was characterizing this reveal as "more Destiny" which, while not ideal was also like, okay, reorganize and repackage and improve the RPG side of the house and lets see where this goes, it buys Bungie time

Star Wars legitimately feels like a death knell

[mossy sage]

I mean, it hadn't though

Potentially over the last year but even then Heresy has been putting up decent-to-good numbers for a season, and Final Shape did exceptionally well by expansion standards

[fervent gazelle]

TFS was an exception and you know it

of course everyone who ever played in the past few years was going to come back for the "finale of the L&D saga"

[mossy sage]

Not by much

This was always gonna be a bad mid year slump, I agree

I think this upcoming Year would also always have sold poorly

Relatively speaking

But I just don't see a ton of evidence here that the Destiny crowd was really going anywhere. If Bungie had a good showing here people moving on become people taking a break

[versed ember]

Idk at this point im just

Not interested in playin the game anymore

I'm still interested in the world. I just...wish bungie would do more with it

[somber lava]

Now the real question is out there, since the end of Heresy literally has nothing to do with EoF, why the hell did they think it was necessary to hold this out until the 11th hour???

[versed ember]

[mossy sage]

To be honest I am kind of fine with how they played Heresy

I think they could easily have said way too much

[sinful hare]

https://vxtwitter.com/theEverdrift/status/1919814470601220153

EVR//DFT (@[email protected])

Some folks just run.
#destiny2AOTW #Destiny2art https://t.co/ipTZ7eNLY4

vxTwitter / fixvx · May 6, 2025, 6:00 PM

[drowsy salmon]

Nah that Magic the Gathering

I...I came back to this thread and was gonna write up some responses to stuff and whatnot. Then I realized I just...don't care. I've been pretty stubborn with my dedication to Destiny for a long while. I was playing regularly even if I wasn't talking about it much here. And now I just...they found the one line I couldn't ever tolerate them crossing.

I uninstalled D2 earlier today. Think I'm in an active state of grief tbh.

[sinful hare]

Gotta ask, is it because of the corporate mashup-itis, or is it because of Star Wars specifically?

[quaint scroll]

I'd guess it feels like the identity got sold out

but yeah, I'm curious myself, Glam

you've been a pretty positive presence around my entire time here

[sinful hare]

The identity definitely got sold out, that much is clear, but I am curious if it matters who it got sold to.

[drowsy salmon]

The former.

[somber lava]

There’s also the element that this opens the floodgates to just about any franchises can eat a 6 month chunk of the game and cement permanent canon lore that something, no matter how unfitting or jarring, has to always be referenced [X] way

[drowsy salmon]

I don't give a crem who they sold it to.

Destiny isn't Destiny anymore.

They could have made a Star Wars inspired expansion. They could have given us a laser pistol that isn't Han's blaster. They could have given us a plasma sword that isn't a lightsaber. Made it so that it was actually their own, actually Destiny.

But nope, they decided to just remake Star Wars.

[somber lava]

Let me put it this way, if the “We go to Riis” expansion happens at the same time Assassins Creed wants to buy living space in an expansion, well simply put, Riis won’t be Riis

It will be Assassin Creed amusement park with some Riis bits

Or worse, Riis is Fortnite

[drowsy salmon]

I liked Destiny because it was Destiny. It was unique and compelling and inspired. It took inspiration from all sorts of places but it was still its own thing. And now it's just...not.

Just another platform for corporate crossover brand-synergy slop.

[sinful hare]

Yeah this is definitely something some execs hashed out over a fancy lunch, how much value the Star Wars name would generate for Bungie to set the licensing deal size. The creative integrity of the franchise most certainly did not factor.

[drowsy salmon]

I just want to know...who asked for this? This reeks of idiots in the C-suite sniffing their own farts and seeing only the dollar signs.

[sinful hare]

Yes exactly.

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah exactly. They saw what Fortnite is doing, what Magic is doing, and said they want a slice of the pie.

It's the most creatively bankrupt direction they could have possibly taken the game. And I just refuse to support it.

[drowsy salmon]

That's always been Bungie's problem. It's felt like the execs have these awful ideas and the game is still enjoyable because of it, largely because of the passion of the people actually making it. But feels like it's finally consumed everything else.

[somber lava]

An event horizon of stupid decisions would eventually be crossed 😔

[drowsy salmon]

Like, this whole cringe-athon live-stream reveal is the perfect embodiment of it. Awkward personalities rattling off canned say-nothing comments and making jokes nobody actually laughs it, opposite of even more awkward devs.

In no universe is this format better than the old vi-docs. But they probably do it because somebody decided that streams are the way to go.

It's funny, I could ignore/laugh at it before today. And now I just hate it for everything it is.

[drowsy salmon]

It's honestly frightening to even myself how much this has shattered my outlook on things. I actively want Marathon to fail now and take the studio down with it. Better it be left to molder than allow them to continue to pillage some of my favorite memories.

In any case, this should make for an interesting appointment with my therapist on Thursday.

[sinful hare]

It's actually a thing that happens very frequently in the corpo world when there is a leadership churn event.

The new execs come in and immediately start to come up with bright ideas about how they're gonna change some crem to increase value, to prove their own value.

The smarter ones will listen to the entire structure that is nominally below them in the hierarchy, how they've done things and why.

The dumber ones will just impose some dictum. Throw out some old ways for the sake of throwing things out. Revel in their lack of context like they're consultants.

It is entirely possible that the only thing standing between Destiny and Crossover Slop was Luke Smith (and I guess Mark Noseworthy).

[somber lava]

And Joe

Director let’s you call some important shots

It’s basically a Veto power

[drowsy salmon]

Joegoroth was definitely a driving factor behind FS being good.

[sinful hare]

Yup. Joe was the Game Director but Smith and Noseworthy were still the franchise's overall heads even if they were not directly working on the live Destiny any more (and were instead planning that third-person spinoff tht got killed).

[half night]

Wait did Destiny Rising get killed?

[drowsy salmon]

Ironically, the best way I can summarize my feelings towards Destiny right now is this:

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-chosen-one-you-were-the-chosen-one-gif-7521423

[drowsy salmon]

Yep. Killed back during the first round of layoffs. Of Bungie's half-dozen projects they'd been working on at the time, only two survived: Marathon (probably dead on release) and Gummy Bears (spun off into its own studio).

Oh wait, Rising.

No, Destiny Rising is still doing fine.

It's not made by Bungie.

The spinoff Skrimit is referring to was called Payback, iirc. It was a 3rd person shooter set during the Dark Ages.

Rising was never under Bungie's umbrella.

[half night]

Ah cool just making sure

[sinful hare]

Rising is still part of the IP, and interestingly, Bungo would have had to express to NetEase what the core concepts and aesthetics of Destiny are for them to develop on the license. And NetEase mostly respected that it looks like (goth girls aside). So, in a sense Rising is now more fundamentally Destiny than D2 will be soon.

[drowsy salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

[quaint scroll]

stream ||I've thought about what I feel here and I'm - at the moment, at least - willing to wait and see what their plans are||

stream ||the immediate optics are horrible, but... let's see what they do in the expansion in terms of writing and setting||

stream ||that being said, I also don't really... like... play destiny anymore so...||

[mossy sage]

This was me with the layoffs. I had it right with the first round, but then Final Shape being what it was kindled a spark of hope, and then second round of layoffs hit and I knew Bungie was now no longer meaningfully Bungie, it is Bioware

[mossy sage]

I will not give Smith or Noseworthy that credit. Not having the pressure to come up with inane corpo ideas is not the same as standing in the way of incoming inane corpo ideas

https://youtu.be/_OA1ZGcgHIc

[drowsy salmon]

Poor Datto.

I can walk away from Destiny. Just drop it.

He...it's literally his livelihood.

Lmao his chat was having a real one....was that Danielle? (mildly NSFW)

[versed ember]

It seems so lol

[mossy sage]

His variety stuff has been solid

He played REPO with a bunch of Vtubers (and Sam Strippin) recently and that was great

He was remarkably candid with them that he felt super pigeon holed socially by Destiny and that he's open to any and every opportunity to do stuff outside Destiny

[drowsy salmon]

I hope he figures it out, really.

[mossy sage]

Mactics and Aztecross have both more or less successfully set up Warframe as a side piece

Myelin and Jez of course are both fully out

The person I think I feel for most is Byf

He's tried to go variety for so long and it just hasn't ever worked for him

Even TSLAYP, which is very funny, doesn't do very well

[sinful hare]

Simply being incumbent in their positions for as long as they were before getting yeeted without considering crossover encremification in that time is as close to realistic resistance as it gets. I agree that they probably didn't have the idea brought to them and then, in their virtue as decision makers, rejected it - they most likely just didn't think about it.

[quaint scroll]

yeah, this is a very direct impact of laying off a massive amount of talent who directly worked on the game and had hands-on understanding of what it was and how it's supposed to be built

the people who built destiny are gone

the people who have no experience building destiny are trying to build destiny and it's just not the same

[mossy sage]

I do think that is an overstatement

What we saw of the other 90% of what they showed today was decent-to-good

Bungie still has people who know how to make good Destiny

Which makes it all the more frustrating that they're being asked to make this Duel of the Fates Skywalker Saga

[quaint scroll]

not what I said

I said "it won't be the same"

as in, there'll be drift

[somber lava]

He should, and as silly as Jez is, he can give Datto editing tips and tricks
And by weekly upload volume and weekly view count, Aztecross was a more intrenched Destiny channel than Datto (and subscriber counts aren’t far off; 1.2 mill vs 940k) and Cross managed to set up a second game as a highly watched backup game for the channel
Datto will be fine

[mossy sage]

Jez and Datto use the same editor

[mossy sage]

What you said was "the people who made Destiny are gone", and that's only somewhat true. And this is not creative drift, it is executive decision drift. I think we'd need a year or three to see creative drift like you are describing

[sinful hare]

https://x.com/DestinyBulletn/status/1920125266699137466

Destiny Bulletin (@DestinyBulletn) on X

🚨 NEW: Justin Truman is now VP of Destiny at Bungie. He previously served as the studio's Chief Development Officer.

He replaces Mark Noseworthy, who reportedly left alongside Luke Smith following the cancellation of Destiny: Project Payback.

X · May 7, 2025, 2:35 PM

But we do not have Destiny 3.

[hollow rover]

how are we feeling for the next expac?

oh

I'm willing to wait and see how this expac turns out

who knows, might even be good lmao

I'm willing to wait until at least the full reveal anyway

though I'll say, if what it takes to have decent melee combat in destiny is selling it to the star wars then that is a trade off I'm willing to make

[little frigate]

well, i admit, my interest was already low and this has done nothing to pull me in

i've actually uninstalled Destiny today 😅

[hollow rover]

it doesn't really change how I approach the game

so long as the servers are up and pvp is fun I'll probably come back for a little each expac

if the weapons are cool I might even grind some pve to get them

[little frigate]

i got into destiny for lore and story, so the whole star wars thing missed me by a country mile

[mossy sage]

Did pvp even get a mention in this update?

I can't imagine the new armor is going to make the pvp only crowd any happier with pvp

[drowsy salmon]

There was crucible tile on the new activity UI.

No gambit tile though

[hollow rover]

from what I've seen the direct star wars references are the like, crossover pack which is separate from the expac

the expac has the like, blasters and lightsabers but afaIk we don't know the lore for those

who knows, maybe they'll manage to make it fit

I don't particularly like the design of star wars weapons so uphill battle for me at least but eh they could manage

[sinful hare]

Brig PvP confirmed.

[mossy sage]

Mmm yeah

I do not think Brig pvp is what the sweats are looking for

[sinful hare]

Destiny sweats are the group who are the happiest with Marathon rn tho.

Which in the alpha at least is just too lacking in core features for established extraction fans.

[mossy sage]

From what I understand, it stands to reason. Destiny sweats are happiest with the deck stacked in their favor and Marathon lets them farm noobs pretty heavily from what I understand

[sinful hare]

Arc Raiders is more fully fleshed out than Marathon rn, and from Datto's gameplay it obviously doesn't have the flashy art direction but it is certainly more readable and it isn't a hero shooter and has prox chat.

[drowsy salmon]

Had this idea that wouldn't get out of my head

[somber lava]

Yaaaah I heard about this, zero marketing, just dropped out of nowhere and got a swarm of people

[sinful hare]

Raiders has an extremely clear divide between what is a PvE enemy because they're all drones, and a PvP enemy because the players are just Lethal Company employees carrying guns.

[mossy sage]

About as close to an apples-to-apples comparsion to Marathon as you could ask for and Arc Raiders seems to have pretty well outperformed Marathon as metrically as we can ascertain

[drowsy salmon]

My brother mentioned that game, apparently there's even some GotY buzz about it, just from the alpha?

[mossy sage]

I mean

[sinful hare]

Nah, French JRPG is GoTY.

Clair Obscur.

[mossy sage]

E33 is getting GotY, no question, but for pvp types it'll probably get brought up a lot, yeah

[hollow rover]

... it did have marketing though

[sinful hare]

Is it actually a JRPG?

[hollow rover]

it sponsored every streamer under the sun to play it

[mossy sage]

Close enough

[hollow rover]

arc raiders is straw fire

[drowsy salmon]

FJRPG

JFRPG?

[hollow rover]

give it six months and I doubt we'll see anything about it

[drowsy salmon]

Nope, that sounds like an obscure fetish acronym

[hollow rover]

like pretty much all of the "trust me guys this will be the really popular new shooter, all of the streamers are playing it!"

[little frigate]

I prefer Final Frenchtasy

[mossy sage]

The most irritating part of the E33 discourse is using it as an excuse to dunk on Final Fantasy, so I see that as close as genre discussion needs to get

[drowsy salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/good-place-tgp-chidi-thats-gif-18334989

[little frigate]

listen, i'll take a pun over a punless acronym any day

[drowsy salmon]

Fair

[drowsy salmon]

Is it time for our monthly "what is a genre" discussion?

[mossy sage]

pls no

[little frigate]

anyway, never heard of this arc riders thing 🤔

[hollow rover]

unsurprising

[mossy sage]

It is "more accessible Tarkov" from the Tarkov direction instead of from the hero shooter direction

[little frigate]

i swear the logo of it reminds me of some old computer brand but i can't figure out which one

[hollow rover]

their main form of marketing was paying streamers to play it, so if you aren't in those spheres not surprising at all

atari

[little frigate]

aaah thank you

it is atari

[sinful hare]

I hate it when this type of thing happens.

[hollow rover]

there was a classic video game maker that had the technicolor filling the logo on game intro screens

I don't remember if that one was atari too or another one

it was a SNES developer

slash publisher

[half night]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[mossy sage]

Because some people don't know how to enjoy things without making it partisan

[little frigate]

a lot of "older was better" people annoyed that FF moved away from turn based combat

using E33 as some kind of "proof" that Squeenix shouldn't have done that

[half night]

Oh okay and they're going "look this is what Final Fantasy should be"

But being annoying about it

[mossy sage]

(As if Square Enix isn't making games in the vein of older FFs anyway)

[hollow rover]

among other things they are saying about it yeah

[drowsy salmon]

My impression is that each FF game is kinda its own thing.

Not one set genre.

[mossy sage]

That is correct

[hollow rover]

there is a very "I hate these japanese things but a JRPG made by westerners now that's the good stuff" undercurrent here

[half night]

Also hasn't mainline FF not been turn based since like...X or something?

[mossy sage]

I mean

Depends on what you mean by turn based anyway

ATB was already stretching the definition

And that started in 4

[half night]

I know XI is an mmo and I think all of the ones afterwards have been ATB or real time but idk when that started

[mossy sage]

13 was ATB. 15 and 16 were real time

[half night]

Oh okay it started way earlier than I'd thought

[hollow rover]

no

ATB has started in like

FF4

[half night]

I know there's a point where they stopped doing pure turn-based but idk when exactly that was

[hollow rover]

15

technically 14

but 14 is still turn based a MMO

[mossy sage]

10 was the last fully turn based

Yes

That is correct

13 is the "last" if you count ATB as more turn based than not

Arguably 14 if you count GCDs as ATB in disguise

[half night]

Okay that was my gut feeling but I don't know enough about this

[little frigate]

i mean, if we're talking about "pure turn-based", then E33 isn't "pure turn-based" either

[half night]

I really gotta play VII....

[mossy sage]

I agree, rigid definitionalism is dumb and bad

[little frigate]

anyway, that's all rather off topic from Destiny

[hollow rover]

they should make destiny a JRPG

that'd solve every problem in the franchise probably 🙏

[somber lava]

It is a 🥖 J’ay RPG🇫🇷

[little frigate]

I'd play a turn-based Destiny 🤔

[mossy sage]

What about an ATB Destiny

[little frigate]

if you can explain to me how ATB works, I'll consider it

[mossy sage]

Turn based, but you take your turn on a real-time cooldown depending on the stats of the character and the move used

[little frigate]

hm... nah, i prefer having time to think about what i'll do

[mossy sage]

At least in the old Final Fantasies, you can toggle on that the real-time elements pause when you're in menus

[somber lava]

It’ll either go to E33, MonHun Wilds, or Doom

Forget if there’s some heavy hitters September onwards tho

[mossy sage]

Nobody knows, because the releases have been being delayed to see what was going to happen with GTA

[hollow rover]

I would actually love a valkyria chronicles destiny

[mossy sage]

I expect that'll all begin to firm up here in the next month or so

[sinful hare]

There are probably going to be some studios out there who were vibing to a 2026 release crunching now to get a 2025 release because they have to clear the blast radius.

[little frigate]

i love how GTA is projected to be such an epochal game it literally creates a release void around itself

[somber lava]

Please keep a wide blast radius for your safety
You do not want to go the way of Launch Titanfall 2

[half night]

What did it launch near?

[somber lava]

Titanfall 2 was launched in the DOUBLE DEATH blast radius between Cod Infinite Warfare a week before, and Battlefield 1 a week later

It sold basically no copies for several months

And that’s the real reason why we never got a tf3

[half night]

Huh I thought Infinite Warfare didn't do too well by CoD standards

[little frigate]

I feel like "by CoD standards" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here

[mossy sage]

It is and it isn't. CoD is the breadwinner over there at MS/ABK

[somber lava]

13.6 milly

[mossy sage]

If they don't win that bread, there ain't no bread

And I don't think Xbox division can afford to take a poor CoD performance on top of everything else going on

[little frigate]

aren't their mobile games the breadwinner?

[somber lava]

It’s just rule of the industry, don’t launch an fps (unless you are Battlefield) the same month as CoD
Even if CoD is ultra Normie, you are not cod

[mossy sage]

I suppose that's true too

[sinful hare]

It's a shame because Titanfall 2's campaign is fantastic, better than any CoD easily, better than any Destiny campaign until The Witch Queen.

[hollow rover]

I wonder how much of that is real tbh

[versed ember]

Same

[hollow rover]

OH the one I was trying to remember was Acclaim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VkNAxa8lWw

[little frigate]

oh wow

now that's a name i... only ever see in Matt McMuscles' What Happened videos

did not exactly leave me with the best impression of the company

[half night]

Okay so it was "big money" compared to "mega supreme big money"

[drowsy salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzeclAIMkcA

[hollow rover]

they had some fun SNES games

the thing is that they published a lot of games

and like a lot of SNES games were garbage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acclaim_Entertainment_games

there's some gems there but there is a lot of trash

[somber lava]

Oh I remember! Sometime June/July we are gonna see gameplay for Other-Witcher-4™️
-# Dawnwalker
That probably means an October to Christmas release, and that’ll probably sell as much as E33

[mossy sage]

As much as I find myself surprised to say it, I kind of doubt it. E33 is riding one hell of a wave right now and I'm not sure Polish Blade is going to find the same traction

[fervent gazelle]

my June/July is already given over to Automata-at-home, but I imagine I'm an outlier in that audience

(the Witcher Audience that is)

[somber lava]

E33 has achieved 2 milly sales in 2 weeks and I expect perhaps another milly in a the next 2 months ,
Kingdom Come 2 has achieved 3 milly so far,
I think the Polish can match these two

[mossy sage]

I think it is absolutely possible

I think it is less probable than I would have guessed before E33 caught fire

It has some stiffer competition this year than I think they'd have liked even with GTA6 moving out of the way

[hollow rover]

since when is GOTY defined by the game that sold best in the year?

[somber lava]

It’s not, but they still gotta get over the 1 or 2 milly mark before Lord Geoff and his Shadowy Illuminati nominate a game

[void swallow]

silksong goty for sure 🤡

[blissful surge]

Yotei could be in contention

[quaint scroll]

... hmm
could you say Marathon is basically Gambit v2 the game

[sinful hare]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1khr1zs/life_goal_to_run_a_marathon_in_the_oval_a_sub_4/

Inevitable consequence of the main Marathon sub not being MarathonTheGame.

[fervent gazelle]

HowTF was that not already claimed by the sport community?

[half night]

I'd guess it was originally made for the old Marathon games but that's still weird

[sinful hare]

Yup it was created by the shooter boomers for the OG Marathons.

Which are all free on Steam btw, if you want some of that 2D action with the grand innovation of being able to aim up and down and story told almost entirely through text logs (with some 🔥 prose at times tho).

The player characters in nuMarathon being called "Runners" is a nice pun tho.

[somber lava]

The prose:

INCOMING MESSAGE FROM DURANDAL

Give me a D.
Give me a U.
Give me an R.
Give me an A.
Give me an N.
Give me a D.
Give me an A.
Give me an L.

What does it spell?

Durandal?
No.

Durandal?
No.

T-R-O-U-B-L-E.

T-Minus 15.193792102158E+9 years until the universe closes!

END OF MESSAGE

[sinful hare]

I can completely imagine Ben Starr saying that crem tho.

[somber lava]

Marathon 1, 2, and 3 aren’t just free on steam, but for some reason also free on iPhone and iPad

[sinful hare]

Aka. the descendents of their original platform.

[somber lava]

Time is a circle

[mossy sage]

iOS and iPadOS are derived from OSX, which is not derived at all from MacOS 9

I did play Halo CE when it was brand new on a Mac though

The Mac version came cracked so my brother got it burned on a CD from a friend of his

It was the early 2000s so elementary schoolers were still doing that

Real Limewire hours

[somber lava]

Hmm, interesting meta I see

https://vxtwitter.com/ismolsomething/status/1920909651924693185

Jooooo (@ismolsomething)

↪️ Replying to @DestinyTheGame

@DestinyTheGame What's this new tank super? I need to know

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · May 9, 2025, 6:32 PM

[drowsy salmon]

Just a normal ammount of lag

[mossy sage]

https://fixupx.com/kiimera/status/1920936292986061216

max (@kiimera)

insanely free 1 phase yes 😎
︀︀
︀︀full kill in comments #motw #destiny2 #heavymetal

**💬 12 🔁 45 ❤️ 828 👁️ 33.5K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · May 9, 2025, 8:17 PM

[drowsy salmon]

Tbh I don't consider it a Templar one-phase if they have to block any of the teleports.

[mossy sage]

On the one hand u rite

On the other, they're sparrows lmao

[sinful hare]

TIL Heavy Metal and the Gryphon vehicles are out already.

https://v.redd.it/z4d7pehcjsze1

This is not Europa. This is Rubicon.

[raw lake]

edgers of fate || I wish they gave more context, like who is the big baddie? ||

[quaint scroll]

edge of fate ||it took us ten years to get to the last big bad, I don't think they're going to bring the next one out this quickly||

[mossy sage]

I mean

Oryx

Took em a year

[quaint scroll]

ooh, hmm

what is the quickest reveal to a villain they've done?

[somber lava]

Crota

Quite literally D1 Launch just didn’t have a dude because it was still suffering from the reboot

[mossy sage]

Shadowkeep was also villainless

Forsaken had like

Six

lmao

That Uldren/Barons/Quria/Savathun knot

Riven

[sinful hare]

D1 launch had like a sampler platter, you fought a lil bit of Fallen, then a lil bit of Hive, then a lil bit of Vex, then a lil bit of Cabal, then the final boss were those Black Garden dudes 🗿.

Crota was "bad Moon guy, vv bad".

House of Wolves actually had a bit of plot, but yeah, Oryx was the first real real villain.

Honestly, it would be cool if the new big bad was Xur.

[somber lava]

“The humble and pathetic Xur has had enough of your shenanigans…”

[sinful hare]

the hood comes off

[somber lava]

https://vxtwitter.com/Forcer69/status/1921648754593337742

Forcer (@Forcer69)

It’s Dec 2nd, you log on to D2 and Talk to Shin Malphur.

“Somehow Dredgen Yor has returned and he has recruited the Cabal Storm Legion to build a weapon with the sun,” Shin Says

“Like The Almighty?” Ghost Responds

“No, even worse. It’s more like some kind of Death Star.” https://t.co/dXSiXoG0o3

vxTwitter / fixvx · May 11, 2025, 7:29 PM

[sinful hare]

I wonder how they are gonna remix Cabal Stomp to somehow get the Imperial March in there.

[drowsy salmon]

Thanks for unlocking a new core fear.

[drowsy salmon]

https://bsky.app/profile/antire.al/post/3lpa4gamtzs2l

https://bsky.app/profile/antire.al/post/3lpa4geucyk2l

N² (@antire.al)

the Marathon alpha released recently and its environments are covered with assets lifted from poster designs i made in 2017.

@bungie.net @marathonthegame.bungie.net

Reposts

878

Likes

1438

Quotes

125

Bluesky · May 15, 2025, 6:11 PM

N² (@antire.al)

-# ↩ N² (@antire.al)
bungie is of course not obligated to hire me when making a game that draws overwhelmingly from the same design language i have refined for the last decade, but clearly my work was good enough to pillage for ideas and plaster all over their game without pay or attribution.

Likes

337

Bluesky · May 15, 2025, 6:11 PM

Remember how I said that I hope that Marathon fails and takes Bungie down with it? Yeah.

[mossy sage]

This, frankly, is a mistake. This artist should be suing Bungie or whatever "third party" they're trying to pass this off on, or both

Bungie has gotten away with this several times now with minimal consequences

That they feel comfortable continuing to do this (it is no longer a mistake, this is the fourth time I can think of offhand) has become a threat to artists generally

[somber lava]

First witty art, then ace art, dubiously but plausibly the Red war and CoO story, now this

Something tells me bungo has many many more unethical plagiarized things that we just aren’t catching yet

[mossy sage]

Nah the Red War guy is rent seeking

[somber lava]

It would be very funny tho if he wins

[mossy sage]

I mean kind of

I'm actually gonna be upset if that guy gets paid because Bungie actually plagiarized off this guy

If I were the Red War guy's lawyer right now I'd be drafting paperwork indicating that this is a pattern of behavior for Bungie. Which, it is! Just not in Red War guy's case

[drowsy salmon]

Can't speak for the Halo days, as I wasn't online back then.

But Bungie has 100% survived the last 10 years in large part due to the passion and care of their community.

And time and time and time again, they pull stuff like this.

[mossy sage]

I can't remember that this was ever a thing pre-Destiny 2

[somber lava]

If the rumors are true, Halo MCC is potentially coming to PlayStation, so you might get to experience the Bungie Halo Pentalogy

If not, even a rust bucket toaster pc can run the marathon trilogy. It can run on 90s apple Macs, such an insane statement

[mossy sage]

I played Halo CE on a 90s Mac

Originally

[sinful hare]

Obviously the internet was smaller back then, so it would be harder to pull off this kind of crem.

Bungo did use a lot of stock assets and public domain assets where they could tho, many Halo CE sound effects are stock gun sounds or generic engine sounds for the vehicles.

Bungo themselves of course were smaller back then.

[sinful hare]

TFW humans can indeed also be AI.

[drowsy salmon]

Oh god it gets worse.

They literally just put the artist's name in the in-game textures. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1111064267085590580/1372720563625267201/IMG_0929.jpg?ex=6827cd26&is=68267ba6&hm=87b48d02d21c4cd5b8a5b8b0085b2132031a447a1b33ff4fc8f4f655f8ace158&=&format=webp&width=2844&height=1366

It turns out, the only thing Bungie actually cooked with Marathon (the aesthetic)....isn't even their cooking. Just wholesale stolen.

[mossy sage]

That's

Uh

I bet he's getting hounded by IP lawyers in his DMs

This seems like a slam dunk

I bet they do it for free even

[somber lava]

Many such easy cases would be for free

[mossy sage]

There's "easy" and there's "they copy pasted so aggressively they left the guy's name in"

His handle is "antireal" and presumably he was doing a daily series, but they saw "antireal daily series" and said "that goes hard" and ran with it

Appalling

[drowsy salmon]

My question is whether Sony's gonna have something to say about this. Not publicly of course, but I imagine Bungie's on pretty thin ice already.

[mossy sage]

I think they can't

Like

Any amount of acknowledgement prior to a settlement concedes negotiation ground

And then if/when they do settle they say only the minimum required by the settlement

And this is substantially bigger than previous cases

As insane as it sounds because this is bigger this makes it harder to apologize

[drowsy salmon]

I don't mean like make a statement. Like I said, not publicly.

What I meant was, who are they gonna fire at Bungie?

[mossy sage]

Ah uh

Nobody until they have to probably

[somber lava]

Twitter tags are better
The answer is Joseph. Joseph will be fired

https://x.com/4nt1r34l/status/1923067988871147605

N² (@4nt1r34l) on X

the Marathon alpha released recently and its environments are covered with assets lifted from poster designs i made in 2017.

@Bungie @josephacross

X · May 15, 2025, 5:28 PM

[drowsy salmon]

Bungie's so cooked.

[fervent gazelle]

https://bsky.app/profile/billain.bsky.social/post/3lpafkzimqc2x
Seems that it's arguably more than one artist that's been stolen from? (i.e. Antireal is a collab group)
Also Jospeh literally followed Antireal at some point

BILLAIN (@billain.bsky.social)

1/ Dear @MarathonTheGame graphic design lovers.
It is time for me to burn some bridges.
Because thanks to @4nt1r34l daily posters stolen and put as textures in the game and many other assets utilized, you have created AntirealTheGame.

@Bungie @josephacross

Likes

204

Bluesky · May 15, 2025, 8:55 PM

[somber lava]

Joseph’s last post is, understandably, now flooded with people in the comments saying “So care to explain this bud?”

[mossy sage]

Frankly, I don't terribly care what he has to say

There's not really a justification here that works ethically. I doubt there is one that works legally

IP theft has a reputation for being difficult to sue over in the US, but that is in part because corporations usually scrub their fingerprints better than this

[fervent gazelle]

which was Joe thanking a design agency for their work on Marathon's Visual Development
Sucker's bet that they blame the agency

[mossy sage]

I bet they do

But they have a problem there, and it is that they've done this several times in the past few years

You go tell a judge "this keeps happening" the judge tells Bungie "you're not meeting baseline due diligence"

And, as Arvon noted, Bungie's art director is following this group

It makes it a hell of a lot harder for Bungie to say "we didn't know the design agency was doing a crime" when Cross should have recognized art he's interacted with previously

[fervent gazelle]

is Arvon plagiarising me now?

[mossy sage]

Oh whoops lmao

[somber lava]

https://tenor.com/view/looney-tunes-looney-toons-ill-steal-it-now-one-will-ever-know-gif-15336046070651704750

[fervent gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/alec-baldwin-the-shadow-baldwin-shadow-ill-know-gif-17650203

[sinful hare]

Joseph Cross unfortunately still got nothing in Bungie's other Art Director.

The man.

The myth.

The mustache.

Dave frickin Samuels

[mossy sage]

Well and that's part of what makes this so appalling

Bungie can do better

Halo and Destiny both have extremely distinct designs that are core parts of their identity

This design was more controversial even before we knew it was plagiariazed, but it was believable that Bungie would try a swing this fresh and distinct

Trading on Dave Samuels' good name to... what, lie? what's the game here even? just do nothing for months-to-years and collect a paycheck while stealing from some indie artshare group?

Insane

[fervent gazelle]

Marathon's design was controversial before this?

[mossy sage]

Yeah

You had the Marathon oldheads who were all "not my Marathon"

And then the people who call any non-photorealistic style "cartoonish"

[hollow rover]

you'd think that they would have learned after the first time huh

[mossy sage]

And then the aspect of, this is clearly designed to sell skins, at least for the character design

[hollow rover]

I mean to be fair there is an argument to be made that these people do sometimes follow each other without even looking at their work because it's more of a connections and mutual respect thing, it's how sometimes you have people in an industry follow problematic people in that same industry allegedly without knowing

or at least that's the excuse they use

[mossy sage]

That's true but it has the name on it this time, in-game

And in one of the ads I think

[hollow rover]

yeah that is not really defensible lmao

[mossy sage]

Like they literally just didn't scrub the name "antireal" and then here Jospeh Cross is following and interacting with antireal art

[fervent gazelle]

From up above:

Some very identical fake corporate branding https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrAa66yXQAAac8a.jpg:large
Literally the artists handle https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1111064267085590580/1372720563625267201/IMG_0929.jpg?ex=6827cd26&is=68267ba6&hm=87b48d02d21c4cd5b8a5b8b0085b2132031a447a1b33ff4fc8f4f655f8ace158&=&format=webp&width=2844&height=1366

[mossy sage]

It is frankly almost worse that an attempt was made here

[hollow rover]

that is bad bad

I was not believing in the death of Marathon but yeah I think this will do it

and well

I can't say it's not deserved though it sucks for the other people involved in this

[sinful hare]

[half night]

wooooooow this whole thing is insane

I really don't know what else to say about it

[sinful hare]

What are the chances this gets canceled hmm

Either that or Ziegler steps up and faces the fire.

[sinful hare]

Dave doesn't work on Marathon, he is Destiny's Art Director. So he'll be responsible for Edge of Fate and uh... I'm not sure what they even have to do for the other expansion.

Destiny's effed up on fanart plagiarism yes, and accidentally stealing a proprietary icon once, but nothing to this magnitude yet.

[mossy sage]

I know he's not on Marathon

But he's a large part of the reason Bungie has the reputation it has for good art

And why this was able to fly so long. Nobody was surprised by Bungie presenting a functionally-new IP with kickass art

It is more surprising that it is stolen

[drowsy salmon]

Bungie posted the very canned corporate response.

"We are conducting a thorough review" would be acceptable if this wasn't like the 4th time this has happened.

[mossy sage]

Yeah

"Please don't sue"

[mossy sage]

Might also work better if it wasn't kind of the foundation of the entire project's art scheme

This wasn't an accidental inclusion

It is baked in about as deeply as it goes

[blissful surge]

I think that language is much more public opinion damage control than any legal cya

Also name the former bungie artist cowards

[fervent gazelle]

This is how Joe finds out he's fired

[sinful hare]

It's Joever, again?

[fervent gazelle]

but it will never be Backburn, because we're all too Cross

[mossy sage]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2025/05/16/bungie-stealing-marathon-art-is-probably-the-last-straw

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/paultassi/status/1923404487735038410

Paul Tassi (@PaulTassi) on X

So are they doing the stream or

X · May 16, 2025, 3:45 PM

[drowsy salmon]

We'll know in 4 hours I guess.

[drowsy salmon]

I have had serious doubts about Marathon’s ultimate viability in the PvP/extraction shooter market for a while now, and doubly so after an underwhelming Closed Alpha a few weeks back. But to lose the one point of pride about how cool the design work and aesthetic is, and this perception now seemingly etched in stone, it feels almost back-breaking. It is certainly true there are dozens if not hundreds of artists who have worked on Marathon and have nothing to do with this at all, producing their own original work. But the well is now poisoned.

Yep. This paragraph just about perfectly summs it up.

[mossy sage]

Yep

[drowsy salmon]

If y'all want to support Antireal, she has t-shirts of "totally not Marathon" logos for sale.
https://meganeko.com/products/meganeko-logo-tee

[fervent gazelle]

are meganeko and antireal (Fern) the same person?

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah.

I think it might be that Antireal is a specific brand/design project for Meganeko? The details are fuzzy for me because I'm not actually in the weeds of their socials.

Hmm, looking in to it further, I think Meganeko might be a musical artist who worked with Antireal to make their cover art and branding.

[fervent gazelle]

yeah, the logo is the only connection I can find

they do however, definitely have a kofi https://ko-fi.com/4nt1r34l

[mossy sage]

Fund the lawsuit shirts

[drowsy salmon]

Oh heck yeah, I definitely have $5 to spare for them.

[mossy sage]

Tassi is calling it the "Marathon art heist"

[mossy sage]

https://x.com/paultassi/status/1923475372491841595

Paul Tassi (@PaulTassi) on X

this is 80% of the chat now

X · May 16, 2025, 8:27 PM

https://x.com/paultassi/status/1923478513941692548

Paul Tassi (@PaulTassi) on X

"what's the biggest piece of negative feedback team wants to change by launch"

says survival stuff, how exfiling is different, AI combatants, resources, loot. So, not one thing

also no talk about solos at all through any of this when that was easily the biggest point

X · May 16, 2025, 8:39 PM

https://x.com/paultassi/status/1923480183396323781

Paul Tassi (@PaulTassi) on X

asked about proximity chat but they "don't have a solution to it" and are still talking about it. "What's our version of that?"

X · May 16, 2025, 8:46 PM

Looks pretty bleak out there

Here's the thing about the "former employee" bit too: it probably is not somebody who quit or was fired, by the numbers

The best version of this ethically for Bungie is they hired someone, who was using this art for inspiration and perhaps even placeholder, then laid this person off and nobody knew it was inspiration/placeholder

This is as good as the narrative gets for them

[mossy sage]

To clarify, even this story is a hard sell, since changes were made to the art in a seeming attempt to disguise the theft

[somber lava]

I’m not a fan of Lucky10P 99.99% of the time,
But sometimes fate extends its hand for that 0.01% for a damn good Stone Cold Take

https://x.com/LUCKYY10P/status/1923221231077146677

LUCKYY10P (@LUCKYY10P) on X

@MarathonDevTeam What about the current Marathon employees and art team that literally follow the artist on this app? Your whole art team follows the artist that has been developing this art style for 10+ years and you didn’t think to give them any attribution? This isn’t an oopsie you can blame

X · May 16, 2025, 3:37 AM

[mossy sage]

Mhmm

Like I say the best case story is a hard sell

[versed ember]

Terrible News: the worst person you know just made a really good point

[mossy sage]

Luckyy10P isn't the worst person we know, not even within the Destiny community

[somber lava]

There’s some controversy he’s a terrible father

[mossy sage]

Oh is he?

[somber lava]

Yeee, lotta memes have been made about how he’s missed child support payments which is why I’m not a fan of him

[mossy sage]

I know very little about him outside like he's sort of around and unfunny in a real specific kind of way that makes me not want to know anything more

[versed ember]

Fair. But he's not fantastic lol

[versed ember]

Yeah, he's generally a dick. But tbf I was quoting a meme lol

[mossy sage]

The general sentiment, at least from the Destiny side of the house, is that Bungie needs to delay Marathon and scrub deeply

[drowsy salmon]

And also the whole, you know, "follows her on Twitter" thing.

[mossy sage]

I think that genuinely puts Marathon in the at-risk-of-never-releasing bucket

[drowsy salmon]

Pretty hard to sell the idea nobody realized all this.

If that truly is the case, then your art director is actually kinda incompetent.

[mossy sage]

Yes I know there are more reasons that it is a hard sell but I put the most legally important one in there for brevity

[drowsy salmon]

Apologies, wasn't trying to sound corrective.

The whole thing is just such a cluster.

[fervent gazelle]

and pay them, right?
-# padme-anakin.jpg

[mossy sage]

That actually did come up in the stream

They're talking about contracting out with the antireal people

[drowsy salmon]

Meanwhile, I'm of the mind (cw: me being really negative) ||I want them to try and bull-headedly push through this and have the game absolutely bomb and have them get them bent over the courtroom bench for damages so that they become insolvent and get scrapped for parts for Sony.||

[mossy sage]

Some amount of money is going to change hands here, if legally or by hiring or what have you

[drowsy salmon]

As much as I love the work of the people at Bungie, it's clear that as an organization, they're rotten to the core.

[mossy sage]

Sony is not better here, unfortunately

[somber lava]

There’s an ongoing joke that the reason they don’t have a Story for nu-marathon is because the original script they scrapped was plagiarized too

[mossy sage]

I wish that felt like a joke

[hollow rover]

I'll say that it is not a good sign when the answer to "what's the biggest piece of negative feedback the team wants to change by launch" is "the whole game"

especially when launch is (theoretically) in a few months

though like

you'd need to be very brave or very uh, let's call it foolhardy, to go with that launch given this and the feedback thing

[mossy sage]

Or very desperate, which is imo what Bungie is right now

[quaint scroll]

honestly, Marathon also feels like such a stupid hill to die on

which, I understand, is a more subjective take from someone who just really isn't into extraction shooters or pvp

but the entire project has always felt like Bungie was taking a massive risk on something that had such little chance of working in the first place

[sinful hare]

Until the Alpha I considered a lot of the Marathon hate to be Destiny players projecting their immense salt at something Not For Them (well, except for the PvPers, and Destiny itself has been Not For Them for most of D2's lifetime to be fair) and that was perceived to be taking investment away from their game.

But at this point if they don't have solutions for the major feedback points this close to launch and are relying on Launch Bad, Survive Until Good + the whole theft issue (and it's old fashioned theft too, not even modern AI theft), and the rise of competition with Arc Raiders and whatnot, it's actually looking like a very bad situation.

[sinful hare]

They didn't make it to exfil with this one.

[mossy sage]

My problem with Marathon is it has always looked weirdly "strategic-corporate" in where it was coming from

"We want to Apex Legends extraction shooters" seems like a very boardroom-oriented pitch

[sinful hare]

It's not a terrible idea, but they almost certainly knew extraction wasn't going to have the scale BR has. It didn't back then and it doesn't now, Tarkov is a tiny fry compared to PUBG.

If they thought they'd get an Apex sized success out of extraction then that's delulu.

[mossy sage]

Well I also just don't think heroes and extraction mix

Makes sense for a battle royale to have that minimum power

[quaint scroll]

100% would find Marathon a lot more interesting if it also wasn't a hero shooter

[sinful hare]

Yeah and the hero shooter thing was after Barrett got fired too, a late addition that Ziegler brought over from Valorant. It's too bad Barrett was a colossal asshole, like Marty, because I think as a dev he was talented (as Marty was as a musician).

[mossy sage]

I'm not actually opposed to hero shooters on principle. I just think here specifically it doesn't make sense

Maybe someone could wrangle it into working shape but that hasn't happened here

[quaint scroll]

no I'm with you, there are times when hero shooters make sense

in this case, it just makes the game a lot less interesting to me

[mossy sage]

For the record, I like Apex a lot. I think it is one of the better non-Bungie shooters out there

So Apexifying extraction shooters is not a principle hill for me

[sinful hare]

Also the fact that they are allergic to the term "hero shooter" is some silliness, like how Destiny could not use the term MMO until they escaped Activision.

[mossy sage]

Makes one wonder if that was ever an ABK directive at all

[sinful hare]

Respawn gunplay is top tier, I think it is up there with Bungo and Id.

[mossy sage]

Biggest problem remains that controller magnetism is still way too strong

But they seem fine to give console players the edge over m&k players so

[stray raft]

I just wish it didn't force trios, which is also a huge problem I have with Marathon.

[drowsy salmon]

Launch Bad, Survive Until Good
It's nothing short of a miracle that they pulled this off twice. They are incredibly arrogant to think they can do it a third time.

[drowsy salmon]

Yeah, a Destiny hero shooter set in the Dark Ages or something would be class.

Which is why Destiny Rising went that route.

[hollow rover]

hero extraction shooter has worked before

Eternal Return base (the not MOBA version) has been pretty popular for a while

[hollow rover]

... not really? happens to a lot of things

league of legends did that

it slowly picked up steam over years