mortal nebula
Topics for discussion:
GE Tax
Degrade-to-dust (Sirenic, Tectonic, Malevolent, Ancient Warriors/Revenant, etc.)
Degrade-for-items (Elite Sirenic and Tectonic requiring repair patches, EoF requiring alchemical hydrix dust, Masterwork armor requiring bulk raw materials, etc.)
Degrade-for-coins (Barrows armor, Nex armor, Elite Dracolich, etc.)
Death reclaim/Tombstones
Skill item sinks (burial smithing, construction, summoning, etc.)
Anything else relevant that I may have forgotten
I noticed there isn't really a central thread for this sort of discussion so I decided to make one.
Personally, I'd like to see slightly higher GE tax (already the dominant GP sink in the game) in exchange for removing "friction-inducing" GP sinks such as item degradation.
Death costs are okay, but tombstone reclaim should absolutely be free.
Having skill training be the main "item sink" is a positive; using gear repair as an item sink is incredibly annoying especially for ironmen.
green nest
I agree with everything you're saying but given we've just had massive economy-impacting changes I'd give it at least a year before rebalancing economy stuff
meager rivet
Personally, I'd like to see slightly higher GE tax (already the dominant GP sink in the game) in exchange for removing "friction-inducing" GP sinks such as item degradation.
I kinda like the idea of tax brackets. Right now, buying anything <50 coins has no taxes which is amazing. What if it was 2% (current rate) for 51–100K, 3% for 100,001–10M, 4% for 10,000,001–100M and 5% for >100M. That would mean most players are unaffected and only the very rich sink more which is probably where it's needed.
One worry with that is more trades will be taken offline (ie, player-to-player, not via GE, where scamming is more prevalent.
Death costs are okay, but tombstone reclaim should absolutely be free.
I personally HATE death costs. It heavily deincentivises doing bosses blind (which is my preference) and strongly encourages looking up guides. I did Zuk recently and died maybe 15 times before getting my first win. At 180k per death, that came out to probably 2.7m in death costs on top of 1–2 overload doses, 15–40 sailfish, 1–10 super restore doses, and whatever charge packs got used. It's so pricy!
If I looked at a guide ahead of the fight, I might have only gotten 5 deaths, saving millions but spoiling the fun. Harder bosses are gonna even more extreme as they'll require more risk and cause more deaths. I'm personally refusing to try Zamorak again until a free death event pops up again. Same for Kerapac, Raksha, and Amascut probably.
mortal nebula
> Personally, I'd like to see slightly higher GE tax (already the dominant GP si...
I don’t think a progressive tax bracket going up to 5% is necessary. I’m pretty sure upping tax from 2% to 2.5% covers every other GP sink in the game and then some.
Reclaiming from Death was always meant to be a “convenience fee” with gravestone reclaim being cheaper. However, the current implementation of gravestones draining divine charges and item degradation often costs more than just a direct reclaim. Removing all costs from gravestones reclaim would give players a less convenient but absolutely free reclamation option, which gravestones were originally meant to be.
mortal nebula
Oh boy Zarudon has been typing for several minutes
empty wave
I disagree with increasing the GE Tax. It's already at 2% This is money that is coming from everyone in the game. The richest partyhat owners and the noobiest of players buying gear and armor.
I am more of the support of tax brackets like Matt said simply because it would be richest players paying more.
I also think removing the gp or item degrating is a bad take. Item degration is a very important mechanic to keep skilling profitable. It also adds a layer of realism to the game and in roleplaying. Ex. having to repair your battle worn armor after heavy usage.
Though "repairing" does come more now via divine charges. So even if degrading from gear were to be removed, I don't think it matter since divine charges would still need to be used to use gear.
Also, yeah remove death costs. These just hurt noobs the most. And it's also annoying having to spend even more money learning a boss after already spending so much time and supplies doing so.
empty wave
Oh boy Zarudon has been typing for several minutes
❤️
mortal nebula
“Keeping skills profitable” by requiring high skill levels and items to repair gear just doesn’t work in a game like RuneScape where “the game starts when you max”. Keeping skills interconnected is healthy, and requiring high non-combat skill levels to engage in high-level combat is okay, but requiring spending large amounts of time on item upkeep is just taking away time from “fun gameplay”.
Especially since t95 armor is completely non-degrading, the t92 elite tectonic and sirenic armors costing 5m/hr in degradation is a slap in the face to those who can’t afford full BiS.
Melee TMW apparently costs 7m/hr (3.5 if custom fit) while Magic MW costs only 250k/125k.
empty wave
“Keeping skills profitable” by requiring high skill levels and items to repair g...
I think requiring skills to repair gear does work quite well for a game like runescape. It actually makes a lot of sense for it imo.
Ofc, the artisan skill lvls should match the lvl of the gear being repaired. Ex. 90 Smith to repair 90 Def gear. It makes sense because runescape has a wide variety of skills! Players should be encouraged to explore and level up all their skills in the game. A big point of the game is to level up skills. It also makes skilling profitable and adds to the game economy. Something which is very important to an mmo.
Rn that has been taken over by invention and divination ofc.
empty wave
“Keeping skills profitable” by requiring high skill levels and items to repair g...
I think this is because invention and divination have taken over this role of repair and degration system.
Augmenting is something that just about everyone does, specially high lvl players.
mortal nebula
Augmented degrade-for-items equipment (Etect, Esirenic, TMW) still costs the items to repair as well as divine charges. Augmenting those sets doesn’t decrease upkeep, it actually increases the cost to run.
empty wave
Also players can just buy the materials. It's what helps the economy. If this is an Ironman issue. Sorry but the game should not be tailored after Ironman. The game has an economy. Gathering stuff and doing everything yourself and it being harder, is all about the Ironman experience
empty wave
Augmented degrade-for-items equipment (Etect, Esirenic, TMW) still costs the ite...
They definitely gotta rework all that stuff. Sirenic, tect and malevolent shouldn't be degrade to dust. It's rather silly how all that works. If an item is augmented, divine charges should be how they degrade by only. Things should work like nex sets i guess
green nest
generally I think item sinks are fine in principle; it's about ratio
so e.g. I personally think TMW upkeep is essentially fine
mortal nebula
so e.g. I personally think TMW upkeep is essentially fine
If it was significantly lowered I’d probably be okay with it, but it’s murderously high right now.
green nest
isn't it like 200 hours of combat per set if you custom-fit it?
I made my tmw shortly after release and have fully repaired it twice
(albeit a lot of my use was on slayer)
I guess it takes a lot of time to make a set so even that is probably still only a 10-1 ratio ish
mortal nebula
isn't it like 200 hours of combat per set if you custom-fit it?
It’s about 50 hours depending on what you do with it
I’ve heard that just the smithing portion takes a full day, not even counting mining 600 of every ore up to elder rune
coral bison
(1200 rune)
(you need 600 rune to make 600 elder rune so if you 600 of both you need 1200 rune)
(also 1800 luminite, since you need 600 addy and 1200 rune)
I think it's probably worth remembering that we now have a permanent, generic item sink, Invention
as long as you give items useful comps, especially persistently useful comps, it's no longer actually important to have degradation(especially to dust) to control how much of a given thing enters the economy
meager rivet
Since the conversation re. Con is fresh, and since this is labelled a megathread - thoughts on Construction x Invention projects that take resources (planks, bricks, whatever) AND inv' components for extra, non-perk-related item sinking? I think there's space for it, there's a lot of crossover between constructing/architecting and inventing.
Few examples
mortal nebula
Construction can certainly be a good item sink for niche stuff to be tuned into cosmetics.
olive pendant
I agree with it all
simple heron
As far as item repair goes, I've always thought that degradation should be streamlined and made more consistent. I would make everything that degrades be Degrade To Broken with repairs centered around repair patch items (by tier or by equipment set) that you could craft yourself or sell to other players. Degrade to Dust is just an annoying terrible mechanic nowadays.
This would make item degradation & repairing far more consistent, keeps an item sink, and keeps a method for profit. As for as logic goes, in a game where mining and smithing are a thing, item degradation and repairs make sense.
The issue or question of item repair via coins is that while it logically makes sense, it's not very meaningful in its current state. Lots of games have a Repair With Coins system so having it in Runescape makes some amount of sense. The problem is that with the way it currently scales, it's not very much of a sink. If you wanted to change everything to be Repair with Coins, you would need to significantly increase how gp repair scales to make it meaningful, especially in a game where you can make gp very very quickly at the later stages
This would also be before taking invention and augmentation with divine charges into account.
As far as Death Costs go, I'd probably be fine with them going if the GE Tax was increased
crude holly
so heres the only issue with Taxation on the G.E is the fact the higher valued items often just compenate additional costs to the buyer, essentially because players often value the item even higher to compenate for the GE taxation.
Realistically; increasing the GE taxation further just makes this sagnificantly worse.
Also often resulting in many items just not being transactioned through the GE at all.
I am not opposed to a GE tax exsisting, but maintain the number to be lower then 3% is essential.
Honestly this type of thing never goes well with the community, and often just rarely gets utilized, rendering it almost useless.
Unsure your topic of discussion here, so can't comment, will be willing to update this if I were to discover more of what your exactly referencing here.
again, unsure your specific topic of discussion here.
So I know this one is extremely controversial for most players, but realistically Death costs genuinely should remain, I'm not suggesting it to be a high cost at all, but this is still a solid GP sink out of the game.
If anything I could see more items to being removed from the GP Cost to reclaim listing, allowing this to be less punishing to learning players, but Gear & Equipment should always remain on payment list.
Genuinely, Invention needs to be expanded on on several items to help further sink items out of the game, Invention is by far the #1 item sink we have, and realistically as much as players dislike specific portions of how it functions, It genuinely needs to be expanded on including more items to provide tremendous benefits to liquidation, similar to how T95 Wand/Orb were added to this was tremendously amazing. They don't necessarily need to provide best in slot perk benefits, but even some perks that are niche or rare to obtain are very good options to provide alternative account builds
Such examples:
this helps solidify the value of items while also becoming a dramatic Item Sink to items preventing them becoming over bloated within the Economy.
mortal nebula
## GE Taxation
so heres the only issue with Taxation on the G.E is the fact the ...
Degrade-for-coins is stuff like Barrows and Nex gear up through Elite Dracolich, that just cost a set amount of coins (based on your Smithing level) to recharge. Generally the least annoying degradation mechanic.
Degrade-for-items is stuff like Elite Tectonic and Sirenic, Masterwork armor, and Hydrix jewelry that require a specific item to charge/repair instead of just coins. Quite annoying for Ironmen but is basically just another GP cost for mains.
None of the degrade-to-dust items in the game are particularly strong in any case, so changing them to degrade-for-coins or even non-degrading is fine with me.
mortal nebula
Such examples:
* Seismic Wand/orb - Omen Components
* *Provide a Chance to ref...
I agree with more gear having invention components in general.
That said: 10% stacking prayer effectiveness is incredibly strong, powerful enough that encounters would need to be balanced around its existence and would be exceedingly hard without that perk. Maybe 1% per tier up to 5 could be fair as a more consistent sidegrade to Enhanced Devoted especially since you'd be able to combo 5/1 with a DPS perk instead of 4/0.
I also don't really like adding components to the BiS Legendary Weapons, since they will maintain their value on their own as long as new players continue to join, but maybe other people disagree.
crude holly
I agree with more gear having invention components in general.
That said: 10% s...
I could get behind that.
but truthfully speaking; 99% of Boss Encounters don't even require Prayer Protections for most of it, its only specific mechanics which are utilized with Devotion Ability procing to become 100% effectiveness; which is the only time Prayer protections are absolutely needed, so realistically I'd disagree its that over powering.
but I could get behind 1-5% tiered based; however IF it were to do that; it should be possible to achieve at an extremely rare case scenario within 2 components; again this is to provide alternative account builds, its not that dramatic primarily used to item sink to maintain value at 'end game items' which Prasuel Items are considered still very end game.
In regards to adding components, these components already exist as 1x Armadyl Components, all it is is increasing it to x4 in alignment with Noxious Weapons.
here is my reasoning;
Its not more cost efficient, more time efficient only, those willing to spend extra cost to be time efficient can do this, likely wouldn't increase the weapon price more then 1% as 99% of players wouldn't do this method presently.
its more of a futurization of the item to maintain relevancy when future 'better weapons' get revealed and introduced.
EDIT: Aka increasing the Armadyl Components prevents when a new best in slot weapon that Fractured Staff crashes to the value of other Armadyl Component items, and simply atleast maintains 4x value of GWD1 items.
when it comes to Invention its something that needs to be considered for long term implimentation, not just the here and now.
mortal nebula
Protection prayer perks like (Enhanced) Devoted and this hypothetical Praesul perk aren't meant for mechanic solving; those are done with manual Devotion. They are meant as passive damage mitigation against auto-attack chip damage, which doesn't really matter anyway for super-endgame SS so you just use another DPS perk. 5% increased prayer effectiveness is 12.5% reduced auto-attack damage taken using proper flicks and assuming Amulet of Souls/EoF. Enhanced Devoted averages 18% mitigation on "slow attacks", but can't be combined with a DPS perk or Mobile. So I think 5rank at 7 components combined with an extra rank 1 perk is a fair tradeoff. Making rank 5 possible with 2 comps allowing Invig 4 Praesul 5 (for example) is crazy strong no matter how rare the combination is to get.
After seeing your edit, oh you meant increasing the quantity of existing Armadyl components on the FSOA. That I can see. I thought you meant adding a new component exclusive to the FSOA. But I think the Legendary Weapon t95s will still hold good value forever even as better items come into the game.
crude holly
After seeing your edit, oh you meant increasing the quantity of existing Armadyl...
truthfully; it depends on future intergration of items in future weapons.
Prime example of how dramatic things could crash rapidly is T95 Wand/orb with T92 Wand/orb + T90 Wand/Orb immediately upon its release because of how much easier it was to obtain, and more overpowered it was.
Realistically Items need something that could atleast prevent this type of action. I'd like to believe T95 Staff absolutely would retain majority of its value, but its not necessarily true.
empty wave
## GE Taxation
so heres the only issue with Taxation on the G.E is the fact the ...
I agree with ppl just not buying expensive stuff from ge, like partyhats. I've done plenty of buying and selling of rares and most of them have been through person trades (the exception being new rares which can easilybe flipped in ge). Ofc buying/selling from ge does happen but not as much as ppl might think. It's just a better deal to find a buyer and seller and deal in person and that's why ppl do this, notably merchers.
While ppl may think ge taxes effect rich merchers the most, obv they do effect them because they effect everyone, lol, but I'd argue they don't effect merchers that much since they will adapt and prefer to deal in person, while noobs and everyone else will stick to dealing in GE.
We def need more stuff for rich ppl to spend money on. These are the ppl that need to lose the gp, lol. Things like the whirlpool titles, the Richie pet, and construction can all be great ways to do this
Ig, they could add a tax on in person trades too... lol
mortal nebula
The best option IMO is to remove the GE tax from rares / cosmetics so players are encouraged to GE trade them rather than player-trade.
crude holly
honestly i dont agree with removing the tax; but keeping the tax low keeps a stable purpose for it.
realistically increasing the tax just hinders the likely hood high weapons / armors will be traded through the GE
or prices increase to accomedate those losses.
mortal nebula
What do you think about Birdhouses being a log/clockwork sink? Should it be a continuous drain "use one trap every time" or should it be a build-once-use-forever kind of thing?