Combat Style Refinements & March Marketplace Drop

[wintry lion]

Hot take, but, I think Bone Shield should become an Aspect Spell too. The spell is enormously strong to have as a 'free' add-on, especially when it's combined with the Zemmy Nexus.

It's completely killed off the need to ever bring a shield, and has set an unimaginably high bar to pass for a Defensives Abilities + Shield rebalancing/rework to actually matter.

A draft of my own for it;

Bone Shield
Level 50 Necromancy Incantation

• Allows the use of Shield Abilities without the requirement to wield a Shield
• Increases your Armour Rating and Maximum Hitpoints by 20x your Necromancy Level
• Lasts 10m
• Aspect of Undying (A player can have only one Aspect spell active at a time)

[odd iron]

The reason melee felt better than mage and range in this last update was likely due to sustainability, so instead of keeping it sustainable and fixing the other two, we nerfed melee and then nerfed mage while also ignoring range.

[lean cosmos]

rip anyone that uses magic tank armor

[distant depot]

Magic tanks could use shields ;3 /hj

[hollow hollow]

Sustain was a part of but powercreep was also mentioned in the newspost

[wintry lion]

I mean, yes, they can just wield Shields too if they wanna camp Animate Dead endlessly.

But don't forget Cryptbloom still exists too.

[odd iron]

then lower damage, up sustain numbers to balance the damage loss. that is a up and down math situation.

[wintry lion]

At the same time, however! I do want to buff / improve the way that Nexus upgrades work, to help give back that lost necromancy cross-style support.

[hollow hollow]

Posssssibly

[odd iron]

Its likely going to end up in the blackhole that range ammo is still in atm but this would be the likely fix that would make people less upset since we seem to not have a on staff interpreter of the core reason people actually disliked some of the changes.

[lavish jay]

How unpredicted that was..

[wintry lion]

The idea is as following; At your Well of Souls, in the place of where you previously unlocked Greater Bone Shield spell at, you gain the option to attune your Nexus to different Soul Wells in Gielinor. Those Soul Wells are obtained/unlocked as drops or rewards you previously also gotten Nexus Upgrades through. HOWEVER, these Nexus upgrades give cross-style benefits, rather than necromancy exclusive.

Additionally, as a new end-tier reward in the Well of Souls, you learn the ability to Empower your nexus, causing it to consume Necromancy runes to gain additional or empowered effects.

Kharidian Focus (Unlocked by obtaining a drop from Amascut, The Devourer)

• When wearing your Necromancy Focus, sources that Drain Life from an opponent generate 25% more health.
• You can Empower your focus. When Empowered, it increases the life-drain bonus by an additional 25% health, costing 1 Flesh Rune for each 1.000 health restored.

First Guardian Focus (Unlocked by obtaining a drop from Rasial, The First Necromancer)

• Your Necromancy Focus gains +3 additional storage slots. You can fill your First Guardian Focus with any combination of Necromancy Runes, Regular Runes, or Ectoplasm.
• You can Empower your focus. When Empowered, you can conjure, command and maintain Conjures without the need of wielding a Conduit. Conjuring Conjures consumes 5 Spirit Runes in addition to its cost(s).

Freneskean Focus (Unlocked by obtaining the Dark Slab Shard from killing Zemouregal 100 times)

• When wearing your Necromancy Focus, Aspect Spells you cast linger for 2 additional minutes.
• You can Empower your focus. When Empowered, it extends the duration of Aspect spells by an additional 3 minutes, up to 15m. Doing so costs 2 Miasma Runes when cast in addition to its cost.

[lavish jay]

I find it funny we do shit and we let it in for 1 week instead of reverting and doing it right next week.. that is always a good way to handle things.. seriously..

[hollow hollow]

I don't know why people dislike it tbh. I think it's a matter of perspective. If styles were balanced again and melee was weaker similar to pre-beta, then it would be fine. The gameplay wasn't changed after all

[onyx mirage]

I know right? Testfiring things that couldnt be testfired due to the limitationsof a live beta vs a live audience. Its so nice isnt it? Good they took feedback though, theyre listening, like I said they were. Equilibrum being added back in proves that point :/

[lavish jay]

like i told it earlier let it run be aware and do it right? haven´t i? like it´s just fed into this.. it´s a common thing with Jagex nerf/buff policy since years..

[weary obsidian]

@still dome was there any word on XP reduction for combat dummies? This was being looked into last week, it was unclear if it was intentional or not.

[wintry lion]

Just FYI, but not everything can be fished out in a beta. Sample size matters.

[onyx mirage]

Pretty much. Also its outside working hours for Azzana, you probs wont get a response.

[onyx mirage]

Jagex is not perfect, and the Runescape community is infamous for drawing and quartering itself over changes. This was I told you, and you did not :P Its almost like game development is an organic thing...

Give it a rest Staz. If it makes you feel better, Ill tell you yes, you were right on the mage nerfs being too much.
That said, Jagex is in charge of this ship, not us. So I find it a privledge rather than a right that they take feedback from us. This is not a democracy.

[wintry lion]

At least be happy they're actually adressing it the week straight after.

And not let one combat style boil over the entire combat balance for 1.5 years.

I still remember the original FSOA, where its critfisher build made itself feedback loop for MASSIVE tonnes of damage. And it stayed that way for so long that people made insane investments for magic based on that, purely because its duration made them understand this was the future of magic.

[lavish jay]

It´s just i know they can do better and i wish they would they trying to bring Rs3 in a better place that´s all and i want it to succed like everyone else. and yes they are the captain but we are the crew and a ship without a crew sails nowhere. 😄 That´s all.

[wintry lion]

"do better" how exactly? Nerfing is part of rebalancing.

[lavish jay]

start small go bigger over time if needed.

[wintry lion]

And you're under the impression that this dial-back isn't exactly doing that, after realizing they completely overshot?

[copper flicker]

People already used the styles to get better times. Early bird bonus again. People reperked. They might change the styles even further next week.

[blissful wharf]

1 week is a really decent timeline for balancing adjustments.

[wintry lion]

It's literally 1 week.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but, remember that mention I did about the FSOA? Those effects are still out there on the boss timers.

Does anybody care at this point? I certainly don't.

[blissful wharf]

I just don't know what people expect. Balancing to be untouchable upon release?
The game would go to hell FAST

[lavish jay]

4tick 2 years to be discovered 1 week is not enough btw... anyway i´m out. i said what i said, and was reasonable. and have no ill will against anyone..

[wintry lion]

Buys an item that's obviously overpowered because jagex doesn't learn from its mistakes

Jagex learnt from its mistakes and adresses the overpower expeditedly.

Surprised pikachu face.

[lethal kestrel]

prob not the place to mock people tbf. Jagex has acknowledge or maybe even joked about that they went a lil hard. expect some kind of adjustment next week

[onyx mirage]

^^^

[wintry lion]

Not quite sure what mockery you see there. It's a gamble that was lost. It's an investment you knew shouldn't be a thing. There's no mockery, the only and obviously answer there is "what else did you expect?".

[hollow hollow]

Definitely been a bit quiet

[light vector]

My thing is, what was even the point in the beta?

[lethal kestrel]

duwhat now?

[hollow hollow]

The devs on the adjustments

[hollow hollow]

Ability reworks, not powercreep

[hallow radish]

They also warent specific on the mage part, like what part was harsh? The fsoa? Or the tumekins?

[lethal kestrel]

consider that you may see it that way but just me seeing your comment, I took it as mocking.

its not always about what you mean. impact is a hell of a thing

[blissful wharf]

What % of the actual player base played the beta? And of that, what % wasn't hardcore maxed PvME-Discord users?

Live game gives WAY more data points for Jagex to use than any beta ever would.

[lethal kestrel]

for me, necro losing 23%? use since update is WILD

[hallow radish]

Because everyone was trying other styles seems right

[lethal kestrel]

its more than just others using style. it being 30% weaker does a lot to not wanting to use it, I think

[light vector]

Plus apparently the lose of certain auras apparently affected necro more then others from my understanding

[hallow radish]

But doesnit matter if it still can kill any content?

[lethal kestrel]

it hugely matters. feeling bad as a style while others are hellishly powercrept is no beuno dev wise.

it also got nerfed which makes it worse when people were begging for some qol

[blissful wharf]

This exactly People want to use things that have been reworked; not the style that hasn't. The inital data was always going to create a bit of an illusion, especially because Jagex only took 1 day; THE FIRST DAY- of data.

[hallow radish]

It doesnt tho? Necro still kills everything 0 difficulty and with equ it will help it without it its still the same im still doing 16-18min hm zuk runs casually with necro

Im not a sweat but to me necro doesnt feel diff it actually feels better

[light vector]

I will acknowledge that the floor for necro does feel higher to me, so i dont really have skin in the arguement, but from my understanding, on the ceiling end, it took a decent hit. But your experience does not speak for everyone to be fair, neither does mine

[hallow radish]

Yes

[wintry lion]

I think that's taking it way too direct at heart and is actually a pretty normal reaction to seeing people upset about banking on presumed incompetence. Jagex has been pretty clear in their pt2 post that this wasn't a final change, and even then there's also just common sense you shouldn't put all your eggs into one basket when something feels too good to be true.

You may not like it, and that's fine, but yeah that's absolutely a normal reaction you get for being upset you missed the signals to remain critical. 🤷

[hallow radish]

I think what makes necro so good is just the healing you get from it and the overall core of it so its hard for me to complain about it since it can kill everything

If every style had the same kind of sustain in healing then maybe they would have a better understanding on what to hit and fix on each style but again idk

[twilit hearth]

hows everyone like todays nerfs?

[light vector]

I think every style should have its own level of sustain to an extent with the EXCEPTION of melee, being as the other 3 styles all have an ammo cost, and melee does not

[hollow hollow]

Too mild after experimenting ngl

[twilit hearth]

everyone thank jagex for mass exodis of people today

[lethal kestrel]

"Sorry to burst your bubble" "does anybody care i dont" "surprised pikachu face"

In a discourse based area. This doesnt fit your message. Its why i took it as is. If it feels direct, understand thats how someone might see it.

Idk what the rest of your message is talking about. The signal was negative and mocking.

[opal plaza]

question besides combat, they shadow buff thieving afkness?, im at arch profesor before todays update i last like 5:30 min afk with crystal mask, now i last 10:30 (9:40 first suspicious)

[wintry lion]

...you're talking about the FSOA thing? The thing that had absolutely nothing to do with the beta but set an example of how not to handle delayed buffs? ...What?

[lethal kestrel]

If a style feels horrible to play vs. Others, it matters a lot. Just because I can kill 300% rax with a bronze crozzbow and armor doesnt mean thats the standard for which we play

[lethal kestrel]

No, I am not talking about fsoa

[wintry lion]

"Sorry to burst your bubble" "does anybody care i dont"

This WAS on the FSOA thing.

[blissful wharf]

Ranged buff = nice
Melee nerf = acceptable
Magic Nerf = brutal; style is now worse than pre-beta from a DPS perspective for end-game users.

[wintry lion]

Someone mentioned "people made better killtimes already."

I replied that the FSOA thing from earlier already had way stronger times during its uptime.

[lethal kestrel]

Context included it but IM not talking about fsoa. Since we are fully separate on topics and the misunderstanding will take too long just to get on the same page, ill bow out of further discussion on this topic.

[wintry lion]

Then why even start it. I was talking about past instances of overpowered items/styles, nobody was inviting you to have a review sesh on taking wording out of context.

[lethal kestrel]

🆗

[light vector]

Yea so, that was a nice chunk of unproductive conversation

[thorny jackal]

awesome! Ecliptic components only from super in-demand items

[wintry lion]

Disappointed you can't get them from the t82 khopeshes and/or from the Magister scripts though.

[thorny jackal]

Yea would be nice to have a small chance from Magister scripts

[wintry lion]

Should just be a guaranteed 1, for both 3 scripts and for the t82 khopeshes

Sure that might sound precarious since the t82 mh is only 2m currently, but that balances itself out by the fact t82 can't be augmented.

[vague sequoia]

Why so many dislikes guys ?

[thorny jackal]

feels like backpedaling nerfs + out of touch updates

[wintry lion]

Backpedaling Nerfs feels very antagonistically worded since they've provided overwhemingly in-depth evidence that their changes were well-founded.

I've never seen a game company go this much out of its way presenting analytics and data to say; "This combat style clearly overperforms too much".

And frankly, the only nerfs done is just numbers, the new design itself is still there.

[thorny jackal]

I'm looking at the data, it doesn't tell me much

[wintry lion]

I didn't mention anything about the contrast of the nerfs, I said that they laid out the proper foundation of explaining why the nerfs were needed.

[wintry lion]

what part of this graph doesnt say; "Melee might've gotten a bit too far ahead of the rest"?

[thorny jackal]

no. that's aggregate boss kills by combat skill, doesn't tell much. With the buffs of other combat styles, necro is bound to decrease in the weighting and other styles having more of the pie.

[wintry lion]

Those aren't boss kills. Those are all kills; slayer, casual and bosses combined.

[thorny jackal]

Ok, if you scroll up there's one with boss kills

[wintry lion]

Yes, I know, I went for the overall one, not the boss only one, since combat skill balance goes beyond just bosses.

[fiery oasis]

@lethal kestrel necro is stronger than pre cb beta. Melee is still insanely op

[thorny jackal]

the graph you showed me is actually fair and not egregious. The boss one is way more interesting as a stat

[wintry lion]

'fair'? o_O. Melee having over a third of the entire 4-style roster, even surpassing necromancy by a leap, is 'fair'?

[thorny jackal]

yes. we knew equilibrium was gone, massive buffs to melee. what did you expect?

[wintry lion]

Not a 26%/24%/35%/15% roster, that's for sure 😂

[thorny jackal]

the only outlier is ranged, the rest are fair

[wintry lion]

Even when Necro lost equi and mahjarrat aura, it landed on about 25%, which is a good average.

[lethal kestrel]

🤷‍♂️ jmods have acknowledged they did go a bit far on mage. I know melee is fine.

Necro is pretty par the course from what ive seen so far.

[thorny jackal]

nerf on both fsoa and tumeken is crazy

[blissful wharf]

Should have been 1 or the other. Both, which then has multiplying down-stream effects on eachother in the end game build feels extremely bad.

[thorny jackal]

Nerf Tumeken, revert fsoa imo

actually, half revert tumeken too 😂 50->35% wtf

[hollow hollow]

We need to stop the powercreep though. Might need to delete vuln bombs

[thorny jackal]

or limit defense debuffs (so u cant stack them)

[onyx mirage]

Vuln bombs belong in the game. Theyre made with multiple high end stuff. I cant see them removing that, its not even remotely mtx

[hollow hollow]

It would fix a lot of issues and buffing magic wouldn't be too big of an issue

[high dirge]

why is everyone wanting a certain style nerf. just because they dont like it being "easy"
Especially necro in this case, you know what should happen every style should be within each others range of dmg/ease of play.
so people can CHOOSE what style they like.

I admit i am necro lover. Not only because its so easy to use. but i just like the style as in everything vfx, play wise, abilities, lore and stuff like that.
Necro end end game was already not good. so efficient wise it would not be smart to use necro, i want to be as efficient as other styles so you can use it anywhere you want because i like the style.

I mean want i want tho say is everyone should be able to chose the style they like at any point in the game.
Is this viable to reach this? maybe not maybe it is we will see.

[hollow hollow]

Just balancing. The feel shouldn't change too much

[thorny jackal]

Not too fond of Equi moving into invention perk

[copper flicker]

All of this feels rushed. From pushing the combat changes live regardless of the state of each style to perk changes. They set a deadline and must achieve it by some XY date.

[lethal kestrel]

December to march

[blissful wharf]

3.5 months feels like a long enough timeline tbh.

Got to move on to actual new content at some point.

[vivid flint]

Wasn’t the first ones in December pretty much just range?

[vapid marsh]

Yeah pretty sad. The first melee update was good. It gave me extra combat option next to necro. And the dmg was usefull to give it a good acces to different bosses and different mechanics. K it was strong melee camp. Still i prefer this than ppl using macros voor briding ec. It was fun.. now necro is back intresting with equil perk

[fiery oasis]

melee is the strongest style in the game rn

[fading wadi]

Equil perk is very good for melee as well

[polar forum]

Lookin good. Mele still feels nice but not as op

[plain fiber]

I think i'm only gunna use the new perk on necro

[fading wadi]

Mage more likely

[vapid marsh]

I'm testing it. Crits is also good only alot of max cap and no crits on aftershock ec

[fiery oasis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1450234829106057338/1480662394127515749/image.png?ex=69b07dd0&is=69af2c50&hm=1e5d9a3dcd4afff354928ff61decd6347f20f2e4793c6f52eeddcc92ed68979a&

[vapid marsh]

So equil is optional atm. Still prices go brrr :p

[fading wadi]

What do the numbers say?

[fiery oasis]

damage over a 5 min test

[lethal kestrel]

Im currently running it on my necro set. Im nit pro eq due to my niche bossing but im sure its solid in places.

[plain fiber]

I only want it for low effort rasial 😂

[fading wadi]

Solid, manual or revo++?

[fiery oasis]

full manual

[fading wadi]

Good, got scared there for a moment 🤣

[fiery oasis]

for revo++ melee is also best

[plain fiber]

Is that with the auto setup bar?

[fiery oasis]

the tests above were full manual, with auto setup bars ye melee would be best

[plain fiber]

Dope. Good news for me then 😄

[fiery oasis]

it outclasses every other style atm. The nerfs were basically nothing for melee compared to mage

[odd iron]

hold on, does your necro test say that you didn't use summons? or?

[wild spear]

Everyone, relax. They nerfed the numbers and are going to more-than-likley adjust them next week.

All they're doing is trying to find the sweet spot.

[plain fiber]

I didn't get hit by the mage nerfs thankfully. I don't have fsoa or tumekens.

[fiery oasis]

wasnt my test but conjures damage isnt included for gems i believe.
necro caps out around 3m damage / 5 min or 600k dpm

[karmic osprey]

shame we didnt have an open beta to test each update... oh wait....

[coral night]

bad idea next

[wintry lion]

Bad because of what? Feedback only goes thus far if you don't add anything useful to it to improve a concept.

[karmic osprey]

no one would use it over other options lol

theyll just bring a shield switch and bone shield becomes dead content

[wintry lion]

That's not all that bone shield does.

[coral night]

exactly to many other good aspects

[wintry lion]

Non-magic can't use Animate Dead.

[coral night]

they need to just not touch magic at all, Melee they need to revert some of those changes maybe buff range a little bit since its dead last

[karmic osprey]

ive used Ad with other styles

[wintry lion]

...how? Animate Dead goes off of MAGIC tank armour.

[light vector]

Doesnt animate dead specific require pulling from the magic specific armor values to determine how it works?

[karmic osprey]

3 piece crypt

[wintry lion]

Doesn't that absolutely gut your dps output?

[coral night]

yup but darkness still exists

[light vector]

That would cause an accuracy hit depending on what your fighting last i checked

[karmic osprey]

still allows with other styles lol

[wintry lion]

Yes at a massive damage potential / accuracy hit, in addition to missing out on DPS armours that style would offer.

[karmic osprey]

literally most afk guides use it lol not everything has to be dps

[coral night]

also why i disagree with making vamp and penance a aspect because darkness and anitmate dead exists

[wintry lion]

Are those guides from before or after Zammy EGWD? 💀

[karmic osprey]

after

[wintry lion]

Because I sure as hell have no idea who would recommend to go melee with 3-piece crypt when Havoc is objectively better.

[karmic osprey]

pvme and youtube guides

just acceppt we dont like your idea for bone shield lol gee the deflection

[wintry lion]

Well looking at PvME now on melee's page, no mention on cryptbloom as 3-piece swap.

[plain fiber]

I mean, we technically can.

[wintry lion]

In any case, +2400 AR and +2400 Max Health is a pretty juicy buff to have on top of just having free shields.

[karmic osprey]

afk twin furies uses 3 piece.

[wintry lion]

(that boost in armour rating might need to be lowered to probably like 10x Level xD)

[wintry lion]

:squint: that one content that deals a lot of typeless damage recommends a tank armour that mitigates typal damage?...

[karmic osprey]

you asked what guide on pvme suggest 3 piece for AD for a different style other than mage, i gave you one...

[agile creek]

some of yall scare as players

[wintry lion]

I don't see crypt there either on twin fury, only TMW and havoc

[karmic osprey]

look again lol

[wintry lion]

Brother, that's not melee 3-piece. That's Necro 3-piece.

[lean cosmos]

melee just use vestments 99% of the time even in afk content

[karmic osprey]

I never stated melee 3 piece learn to read lmao. i said you can use ad with non magic style lmao.

[wintry lion]

You literally were fully replying/engaging on melee not working with 3-piece crypt because of Accuracy cuts for wearing off-style armour

And you said 'Crypt with other styles', plural.

[karmic osprey]

the deflecttion cause we dont like your idea......

[agile creek]

just ignore melee and continue to use necro 🤷‍♂️

[karmic osprey]

you can use 3 piece with melee if you want lol... nothing stopping you, my point still stands

[agile creek]

uriel youre getting baited dude

[wintry lion]

Deflection? You literally didn't even bring a solid argument, started strawman arguing and still have not even came up with ANY feedback point why it isn't a good idea beyond a "no, next."

[karmic osprey]

AD can be used with non magic styles, point proven. you ignoreed my feedback to your idea lol.

[wintry lion]

Style, singular. Not plural. It's only necro, because necro doesn't suffer off-style cuts.

you ignoreed my feedback
What feedback, lmao. You only argued 3-piece necro exists somewhere.

[karmic osprey]

no one would choose a bone shield aspect over the options, it would then become dead content and bloat cause you can just bring an augmetd shield switch. well other players managed to read my feedback and respond

[wintry lion]

Which completely ignored the whole other half of the new Bone Shield aspect that you didn't take in.

[plain fiber]

Hey y'all, let's keep the feedback threads to the intended purpose - giving valuable constructive feedback to the dev team.

Refrain from any arguments, demeaning language, invalidating each other's opinions, etc. please

[wintry lion]

You only replied to the 'replace a shield part' but completely skipped the "+2400 max LP / + massive chunk of AR' part and entirely avoided the earlier nudge you forgot something.

[karmic osprey]

fair do's

[onyx mirage]

I swear thats a copy and paste. I saw Chemie using it earlier

[fiery oasis]

actual feedback, mech chins still feel very punishing to use. Did 30 minute test at abby demons rn and averaged around 850 mech chins used / hour

[plain fiber]

It is, Chemie is much better with words than I am.

[onyx mirage]

hue

[wintry lion]

Main point of the concept stands though; Jagex is gonna have a very rough time to make Shields relevant again as part of the Defensive Ability rework if there's a level 27 necro spell that already tells you "you don't need to care about shields."

[agile creek]

there are tradeoffs for that, though. Whether theyre equal in benefit/cost i cannot say, i havent used a shield in a loooooong time.

[wintry lion]

Which trade-offs?

[onyx mirage]

<.< A level 27 shield isnt very good at shielding you. Theres signifigant amounts of time added for tier of shield.

[wild spear]

You have to wait a minute to do that and you're probably only going to do it once anyway?

[wintry lion]

There's only one ability that greatly cares about Shield Level. The two other abilities that scales with shield level, aren't used for its Shield Level rate value.

[agile creek]

id say having to eat runes on use. To be fair it is not a significant amount, but youre prolly gonna be bringing a nexus if you plan on needing a significant # of defensives? or give up inv slots on those runes.

[wintry lion]

(That's already what Bone Shield does, and it's pretty neglicible)

[tribal scarab]

I missed why we'd want to make shields relevant again? The less switches the better

[agile creek]

shields look neat

[polar forum]

Boneshield op

[agile creek]

its not like necro runes are hard to get, but i imagine anyone using boneshield is giving up ammo/inv slot(s) just to make it useable

[wintry lion]

It's only one inventory slot which can go in your ammo slot.

[agile creek]

if we reduce it that far, its basically just a shield switch by another name, no?

[polar forum]

Boneshield needs to be locked to necromancy. Shouldent be an all round always active shield.

[wintry lion]

Shields have always been in the awkward spot that they were core-identity of the game, but then became so horribly neglected because powering-through was just the only way to go.

The lasts shields we ever got in the game were the ROTS shields, back in... what, 2013?

[polar forum]

That and primal shield.

[wintry lion]

I'd love the game to actually have shields become a significant part of the game.

If not, why not expand the offhand slot more beyond just dual-weapon sets?

Offhands that reduce CD's, offhands that amp adren generation, offhands that makes you more glass-cannon-y, offhands that improve duration of stuns, offhands that offer a chunk of max HP instead of armour, etc.

[agile creek]

its true shields havent been relevant for a looong time outside defensives, there is simply better things to carry. Including bone shield kek. Though mechanically we are accomplishing the same thing as a shield with like 1 less click because nexus counts as ammo in ammo slot or inv

[wintry lion]

Maybe rework defenders from instead of shield swaps, to become 1-Handed hyperfunnels.

You lose on dual or 2h abilities, but your 1h attacks and abilities become significantly better.

[agile creek]

esp melee which doesnt even have a normal ammo slot i dont think, outside spikes

[polar forum]

Spikes and spike harness are the only thing mele uses

[wintry lion]

That too, would love Armour Spikes to become material-wide.

SHIT, that reminds me- didn't we have SPIKED / BERSERKER shields????

[polar forum]

So spikes for every metal?

[rough vigil]

The challenge is some combination is making the endgame at some point OP but how can you figure out where to target nerf? I just got weaker again with the update; 10min corp beast doesn't feel good. The magic changes felt better done as it's something specific. It's obviously some gear with some perks have some multiplicative effect. Across the board nerfs is just making more people avoid pvm (melee change). Or if there's certain bosses that are being killed too quickly potentially giving them or HP or capping hits? I think another approach may be more useful for fine tuning please

[polar forum]

Theres no world where you should be getting 10 min corp beast kills unless you're woefully under leveled.

[hallow radish]

Yeah idk about a 10min corp kill

[agile creek]

10m anything sounds bonkers tbh. what is this, ff14?

[lethal kestrel]

Fyi, this is armored phantoms as of today with mage. Exp hour is higher post beta

[blissful wharf]

Are you using Tumeken's + FSOA in a sunshine rotation that includes Asphix? Because that was the exact target of the nerf today. Not generic magic slayer AoE.

[polar forum]

Mage is still fine. it'll just take some work to figure out optimal rotations again

[light quiver]

On amascut i use it 3-4 Times 😂

[blissful wharf]

The problem with the mage nerf today is hat FSOA + Tumeken's targeted nerf is multiplicative because those things are used together. The generic % shifts posed in the blog don't sufficiently convey the full DPS drop.

[small wadi]

looks fine

[lethal kestrel]

Tumekens so less sun damage ode set. No asphyx though.

But old bar did have it on it iirc.

[wild spear]

Other than that, yeah.

[rough vigil]

More so just trying the combat out as a skiller. Not bis armour nor 120 nor with the bis perks. Only a 3min increase on my kill time which was high to begin with. Just throwing it out there so the calibration isn't just endgame high level bossing so team has a feel where the potential power creep is

[deft island]

I think you just gotta tweak your ability rotation and you will get better time at corp beast

[cinder sail]

Just gonna throw out a "would be nice" suggestion: Any chance we could get a budget Equilibrium perk? Like you can use Direct components for Biting 2-3 instead of Noxius components for Biting 4, would be beneficial to have some budget component that you can roll for Equilibrium 2-3, with Ecliptic still being best in slot for Equilibrium 4

[opal plaza]

since minimun source is from high level late game stuff, it sounds reasonable for necro starters,i dont think there is any other perk wich require such high lvl stuff

[opal plaza]

told him that irons exist and dont have acces to the ge

[cinder sail]

Thanks, definitely could end up being a wait for the panic buying and merchers to settle out to see what the price settle out to

[fiery oasis]

They are already crashing a bit. 185 atm

[cinder sail]

Yeah, but it would still be nice for ironmen, even if they're supposed to suffer XD

[fiery oasis]

Ye probs scav angle

[hollow harness]

Yeah, that's one of my bigger complaints (as an iron obviously.) It feels awful to want my first ode/roar set for perks to put my necro armor back to where it was a few weeks ago with the added bonus of invention rng.

[opal plaza]

im main iron too (late game stuff), and i understand we need to suffer, but still, comps for a essential perk from such a high lvl pvm, is kinda a mistake

[cinder sail]

The only thing I guess is that each ironman should have plenty of ode/roar by the time they get the number of shard they are searching for but if biting is meant to be equilibriums foil, it would be nice to have sooner than shard grinding

[fiery oasis]

Make new comps come from rasial gear too

[opal plaza]

i would suggest bandos comps, useless af rn

[pulsar ether]

P6geno for hm Kerapac on task 🙃

[blissful wharf]

Addressing the cheapness of Max necro by making Necro's BiS perks cost as much as the full gear + Wep set is kinda based tbh.

[desert steppe]

necroscape forever

[small wadi]

equilibrium perk is very measured tbh, all it needs is a lower rarity perk that caps out at eq1 or 2 and it's good, perhaps some rebalancing to make 1 and 2 a little worse

[lean cosmos]

around 558m so not rly

but yeah kinda pricy

[copper flicker]

Yeah, making these come from Rasial gear would make sense. Bandos comps are good too as farcays said.

[karmic osprey]

hermod platees need a use ... got hundreds loll

[lucid agate]

Yeah definately agree. Its a shame the top 0.1% 16h/day pvm'ers and the few streamers reacted that melee should be nerfed.

I would've preferred if bridding got more punished (like more 9s penaltys) instead so the top pvm'ers cant double dip on everything.

Sure its fun for them and absolutely impressive what they're able to do its just sad the casual 'one combat style' player gets the short end of the stick again.

Melee has a lot of downsides already and finally felt great again.

A small buff to range should've sufficed or some more 9s penaltys to bridding instead of these nerfs to magic/melee.

[karmic osprey]

use rituals too enchannt hermod plates that can give chance of a comp... i dunno lol

[small wadi]

Actually it's looking like melee vs melee/magic hybrid are very similar

[desert steppe]

who can influence jaqex?

-The 99% of the playerbase?
-High end streaming sweatlords screeching along their hive mind discord servers about a style being "OP"(accessible and comfortable for everyone)?

[spring sphinx]

Pretty sure they just look at game telemetrics

[blissful wharf]

Melee barely got a nerf today honestly

[fiery veldt]

I have an honest question: while melee and range gain their adrenalin in flat ammounts, via a selfbuff, magic MUST crit to gain it. I get it, mage= crit, but cmon. Therr are more issues: 1. Mage bleeds do nothing, they contradict your main engine. Melee bleeds do heal you, deadshot for range was changed. In addition to that, 2 mage bleeds do cost adre, unless you dont want to waste sonoc wave on their underwhelming dmg. Magma tempest, an ability that is dropped by one of the most important bosses, effectivley looses you dmg if you click ist. The wristwraps enhanced + enchanted, do contradict your main combust breathe combo, bc its effect is in reversed order. They losse you dmg. Dual wields are now super expensive, thanks to todays update. Why do bleed set effects exist when they cant crit? So: Why do you hate mage?

[small wadi]

combust->dragon breath loses one hitsplat of combust in exchange for the other 9 doing +25% or +40% more damage (and getting +25% dragon breath damage)

[upbeat garnet]

you've made so even on max hit mode on a dummy, on elder overload with BIS melee gear under beserk, overpower NO LONGER gets hit caps... good job you get ppl going ot melee and nerf it lol

[regal onyx]

stats to range almost dont change. yeah lets do a handful of minor ammo changes... ok? hope the upcoming xbows coming out are badass AF

[upbeat garnet]

i'd love to say i wasnt expecting that but this is RS they always nerf a good thing

[small wadi]

still better than every other style lol

[knotty flare]

still enough to curbstomp virtually every encounter in the game lol

[upbeat garnet]

you can literally use your ult with next to no adren... thats pretty huge and spam your most adren using abils with that crit buff.. you cant do that melee still

[fiery veldt]

If you have havoc + dual wield switch and codexes, yeah. If you are a learner with no set effect gear, casual perks and no dualwield, gbarge and chaos roar, you might do better than before, but you missing out on so much dmg. A style should not be locked behind 1 specific gear set, there should not be 1 dominant weapontype

Bc whats the point of splitting 2h and 2x if you are not allowed to choose, you want to extend zerk, why woulndt you, but if you want to play 2h, you can't. This almost demands 2x.

[desert steppe]

this is what happens when you get your game's feedback from a streamer

oh well ship has sailed its been a great 1 week

[onyx mirage]

And testing your updates through a live audience :P There will be some tweaks next week

[desert steppe]

probably irrelevant ones

[onyx mirage]

Yeah, irrelevant updates like walking back the tumeken nerfs :P Stuff absolutely noone has demanded :P (Except everyone) Dont think the narrative fits your perception anymore. Wasnt it pretty much verified that necro now does the lowest damage out of all classes now? Still has some really good sustain and crowd control though. Just be glad you got Equilibrum back. Truth be told from what Ive seen you probably needed it :/

[fiery veldt]

True, still, your gains in range and melee are guaranteed. Your dmg = consistant. Mage, bc of relying on crits = randomness. There are very good kills, and very bad ones.

[desert steppe]

necro was the only combat style since its release. that finally changed for 1 week. numbers and kill times dont matter when you can do everything comfortably and cheap

could care less for necro when the game was just that and 3 other copium styles

and now that this changed its 1 step forward 2 steps back once again. i hate necro and what it did to the game

[fiery oasis]

It's been the worst style for well over a year but okay mate

[fiery veldt]

His point was, that ppl dont care if its the worst dmg wise in endgame. They still get the kill, less, yes, but they wouldnt get it for almost no investment in other styles.

[fiery oasis]

Revo melee with t90 out dpses active necro with t90

[knotty flare]

magic and melee both have low effort high durability options

[fiery veldt]

Thats not his point

[fiery oasis]

Whats his point then..? Because melee was barely touched with today's changes

Only mage got nerfed decently hard

[plain fiber]

And only for the people who use tumekens/fsoa

[fiery oasis]

Yeah people just hate seeing even the slightest of nerfs and exaggerate its impact, while being fine with broken amounts of increase in dps

[fiery veldt]

What do you need to do propper dmg with necro. Just train the skill. You get the gear, the weapons, the abylities. No codex farming. Necro training = pvm tutorial. If you dont have certain gear and or codexes, necro still outperforms. Rsguy displayed this well.

[fiery oasis]

T90 melee outdpses t90 necro and is easier to get. Endgame gear for other styles is harder to get, but they also completely outclass necro. So easier gear doesnt mean it is the best style

[plain fiber]

with necro you still have to do a lot of grinding to get everything, specially if you start from a fresh account. Tons of quests and skill to get up that aren't necro to even be able to get to make the upgrades.

[fiery oasis]

You need 86 archaeology just to get anywhere with necro lol

[warm charm]

Different styles are good for different people in different situations. It's never going to be a 100% exact comparison between two players. One thing that is "OP" for one person may not be for another

[knotty flare]

just buy some smithed gear for melee and get carried by its base kit and crazy numbers

[wintry patio]

Balancing the game around the economy is great way to make the game hostile towards iron men. making rare drops rarer with no duplicate protection at all. going 6 off-hands in a row with no main-hand drop and no way to guarantee the correct piece is very much not-fun.

[fiery veldt]

Theres no way, channeled assault, no zerk extender = better than necro for average player

[desert steppe]

just do a price and effort ratio comparison at bosses between necro and other styles. go check and be amazed

[fiery oasis]

Revo melee with the bar jagex gives has out dpsed active necro post combat changes

[fiery veldt]

Link

[fiery oasis]

Was in pvme tests from few days ago, necro hit 550k dpm revo melee was 610k

[desert steppe]

on challenge gems

[lusty egret]

I put the Equilibrium perk on my Roar of Awakening, and there is no damage increase.

[fiery veldt]

Why would you put it on roar. Mage without crits makes no sense.

[lusty egret]

Because for purely wandspec, that is not the point. I have Fsoa with crit perks, and I am for sure not putting it on my magic aurmor, i was testing it to see if it would be worth it for a boost to the wand spec itself, and it has no increase at all

[fiery veldt]

Okay

[polar forum]

Even if it did increase it it has a pentalty where you cant crit for 30 seconds after you unequip an item with that perk

[fiery oasis]

It might also not work if you have biting on armor

[lusty egret]

I am just going to do an ingame bug report.

I know it isn't practical, it was purely a test.

[fiery veldt]

Biting and eq to contradict, eq turns biting off...

[lusty egret]

Equilibrium aura turned biting off, I figured this would have the same effect but I can test that.

No, nothing to do with biting. Damage worse.

[fiery veldt]

It literally says you cant crit

[gritty tree]

It prevents crits for a full 30 seconds after unequiping. Hope you have some separators.

[lusty egret]

It was to TEST it.

[fiery veldt]

Whats with the p6u4 situation. Whats the chance again? 1/92?

[plain fiber]

Something like that

I went for crackling4/ult4 on armour myself

[sick heart]

Does anyone know what outperform for DPS as mage armor currently? I'm hearing tectontic with blast boost and kerapc gloves are better now

[lusty egret]

1/94 i beleive if 9/9 historic comps

[fiery veldt]

How do you feel about it. Is this reasonable.

[lusty egret]

Yeah I feel like that is reasonable, historic comps and the ancient invention components as a whole are easy to come by/obtain compared to other components.

[fiery veldt]

Fair enough

Should they decouple zerk extend from havocs. Yes / no - why/not?

[lusty egret]

My question is, is the aurmor gizmo working for increasing damage on necro gear, because it has no noticable difference as a weapon gizmo so far.

[lusty egret]

I am not opposed if it is decoupled in meaning you maintain the ability to extend zerk a different way

[fiery oasis]

Yeah it does

[lusty egret]

I am wondering if it is just a bug with the weapon gizmo version, or magic itself not working with it. Seems as tho it would be worth it as a range combo because of the lack of needs for crits so much with shadow imbued, now adrenaline is more geared towards amount of arrow strikes.

[fiery oasis]

Yea im not sure on wep gizmos sry. Only used on armor

[fiery veldt]

Is eq a single gizmo, or are there combo perks

[fiery oasis]

Similar to biting

[lusty egret]

combos are availible

[plain fiber]

I'd assume you pair it with whatever you'd pair with biting

[lusty egret]

you need 6 for 4th rank and the other 3 can be whatever components you can work in a combination with.

[fiery veldt]

Has eq itself 100% chance?

[fiery oasis]

7 comps is 100% chance

[lusty egret]

I got Equilibrium 4 Ruthless 1 as a weapon gizmo, I was shooting for Eruptive 2 as a secondary.

[plain fiber]

Oh good, so I can get eq4/undead slayer

[lusty egret]

Yes sir you can. Um, can someone tell someone to turn on the weapon gizmo version tho.

[plain fiber]

If it's actually bugged, it may not get fixed til next week.

[lusty egret]

It appears to be bugged yes, 100%, the damage is worse in comparison to normal Eruptive 4.

Erupive 4 had it tick at 6k consistently in full masterowrk. now it is ticking at 5.5 to 5.9k

So E4 is a 2% increase in damage for it, this is a proposed 14% increase that is not present.

It is as if I just took the Eruptive 4 off and Equilibrium 4 is doing nothing

[fiery oasis]

Maybe bring it up in pvme. Im sure someone there will have more insight

[fiery veldt]

What eq exactly does aim at? Min dmg?

[small wadi]

might be a bug due to them reusing code, eruptive used to be equilibrium

[lusty egret]

No equilibrium is an increase of ability damage to 14% at rank 4.

But prevents critical strikes as a cost to it.

It is preventing critical strikes. I suppose I will have to test it on a replacement to biting to see if the weapon gizmo is purely the issue

[fiery veldt]

But then the perk itself is less meaning full in comparisson to how many crit buffs you have acess to, or not?

[gritty tree]

depends, ranged and mage almost certainly yes, melee arguable apparently due to dmg cap, necro most likely no due to conjure damage not criting anyway

[lusty egret]

So Crit buffs in terms of perks is just Biting 4 for an 8% increase in crit chance. Decent magic damage with FSOA is dependent on Critical strikes because it increases that damage by 15-30% as a passive. For the roar of awakening and ode to deceit set, they work on damage over time abilities resetting the abilities cooldown at a 30% chance, and they do not critically strike, if they do, it is only ever the first hit of the burn. Making putting Equilibrium 4 worth it for that magic weapon set specifically.

[fiery veldt]

Since perk primarily was intended for necro, that makes sense

[lusty egret]

I was purely testing the increase in damage if it would be worth it for wand orb as they work in combination explicitly with the abilities that do not work with critical strike chance/increase, nor do they work with Precise.

It is for sure not something I would ever want to put on magic aurmor, as having it versitile is essential.

[fiery veldt]

What i meant was: if you just compare biting 4 with eq4, you might not get the answer you want, bc biting gets more valuable with other crit buffs.

[surreal bramble]

Let t95 necro pieces give equilibrium invention components too.

[knotty flare]

let latent offerings give 1 component

[fiery veldt]

There could be a point where evaluation changes.

[gritty tree]

For sure, equ should be a real good entry perk with no crit boosting gear. Or it would be if it didn't cost 100s of m

[lusty egret]

Well considering, before with metamorphisis as an ability, it increased the damage of ALL magic abilities, and with modifiers I could do a 18k ticking wand spec that ticked 7 times or applied all that damage at once, now I cannot do that. That definatley outweighed modifiers for crit chance.

[fiery veldt]

Tbf biting 4 also does cost that.

[gritty tree]

Yeah, but biting scales to end game and has cheaper alternatives to get lower ranks. Problem is, aside from necro, idk how's spending 200-300m on a perk they'll replace after a few upgrades.

[fiery veldt]

Fair

[small wadi]

what upgrades? equilibrium is bis

[knotty flare]

it probably should have had a couple of lesser weighted options from worse components the way biting does

[gritty tree]

They did mention they are open to adding some tbf

[fiery veldt]

Agreed. If you think about it - wars retreat combat auras got integrated for free without penalty of + 10 extra taken dmg. Necro kinda needs to spend money/time for their aura as a perk.

[lusty egret]

For magic, you get a 10% crit chance for existing, can add 8% for biting 4, full Elite techtonic for 6%, Grimoire for 12%, Kalg for 6%, Elipsed Soul for 4%, then two other conditional critical strike buffs being Channelers ring 4% increase per channel, and Greater concentreated blast for a 21% crit chance applied to your next ability. Those are all the increases to crit chance you can apply, subtracting the 2 conditional ones that is a total of 48% crit chance.

Then smoke cloud increases Magic Critical Strike Damage by 15% along with FSOA's 15%-30%. For magic, Yes crit build is worth it.

For the Roar of Awakening, and Ode to Deceit passive that increases 30% damage of and ability to reset: Corruption Blast, Wandspec, and Combust, those abilities work with none of the above, making it worth the shot to test the 14% damage increase from Eruptive 4's affect.

[small wadi]

dont forget magma tempest

[lusty egret]

Yeah, magma is an additional ability that would benifit from that increase

[fiery veldt]

Yeah, i see what you mean. I just was thinking as an fsoa player. For me it doesnt make sense at all, but if you camp roar + ode and go fulm for reset procs, sure

[gritty tree]

isn't it in the bin for single target?

[lusty egret]

Yeah, I just test things, and there is a lot of discussion around Ode and Roar camping for people just getting into magic but cannot afford an FSOA, so for mid level it may be worth it, or for interesting speedkills.

[small wadi]

roa adds +420 damage to every magma tempest hit (at 100 stacks), and you can sonic to use it for phr33

in the case of a no crit build, it's definitely worth even in single target

[lusty egret]

No, so you can cast it on single target, it does not decrease in damage for single target vs AoE. It isn't the priority in a boss fight to cast but for passive damage like P4 kerapac, you can place it on one clone and start to take down another while still doing passive decent damage.

[fiery veldt]

The major issue of that roar strategy is, you really have tp constantly check your ability bar to see your resets. I'm not sure if this would make things better for midgame players. At least, the random factor of crits, doesnt force you to get distracted from the actual fight.

Maybe they need to implement clear sounds to recognize those procs

[lusty egret]

I mean, you have to manually cast the spec, and you can see visually when they reset due to all the abilities damages going onto the target at once.

There is a sound effect and with temporal abnomality there is a sound effect.

[knotty flare]

it just needs an actual proc effect, the existing one is as minor as the swirl you get from a prayer renewal

and the reset from roar and temporal are the same, so if it procs on a burn you have to wait and see which one it is or you'll just overwrite the burn because it was actually temporal so the hits won't be instant

[lusty egret]

I mean, I did 700k+ damage per minute with roar and ode camping explicitly with FSOA EoF before the combat update with a 15s bleed build, 30s crit build. I mean crits are absolutley essential to proper magic damage now Metamorphisis and Old GSonic are removed. But I was thinking it may be worth it to just try the perk out on the wand as a possible Ingenuity of the Humans offstyle wandspec for range or necro, as it was widely used that way before the combat update with just Eruptive4 on it.

[fiery veldt]

Fsoa eof hurts my soul haha

[lusty egret]

I mean, many reasons to test it to be honest. Just because of the effect of the wand itself. Also curious as to if it would increase the wand stack of +420 multiplicatively.

[lusty egret]

Yep, it was worth it for the damage output tho, FSOAspec, Meta, Gsonic, Tendrils was absolutley cracked damage.

Along with the stack burst

[fiery veldt]

Assuming eq is worth camping roar, would sunshine be part of rota? Does sunshine affect tempest and other bleeds?

[knotty flare]

tempest isn't a bleed/burn. It IS impacted by sun, burns are not

[lusty egret]

No it does not, but it can't hurt either for the increase on everything else. There is no ultimate that increases that damage anymore. Magma tempest isnt technically classified as a bleed but a "damage over time" ability. But yeah there are bleeds classified as "burns" for magic.

[small wadi]

tempest is not a bleed, it's a hazard, it works with everything except it doesn't crit

[lusty egret]

It is not as it is a damage over time

[fiery veldt]

Okay, next question: whats about adren management then. Tsunami is off without crits.

[small wadi]

Magma tempest is not a damage-over-time ability, it never has been

[jaunty karma]

I think the equilibrium best match is melee bleeds, just makes sense. Stacks with lunging and eruptive.

[knotty flare]

it is not a burn/dot for how the game classifies those. It works with prayer and sun. It does not work with 30% bonus roar damage

[digital trellis]

whoever came up with ecliptic components and the base amounts from each source should never be allowed to cook again

[fiery veldt]

I'd really want to know the adre thing rather than debating on components xd

[knotty flare]

No prayer/sun, VS prayer and sun, both on min hit mode

[lusty egret]

1.5k-1.7k in sun, 900-1.1k out of sun. Interesting, it also matters if it is placed before or after sunshine.

[fiery veldt]

If you need sun this creates problems.

[lusty egret]

I did not see any increase from old sonic wave on it so i figured it was imune to the boosts.

[lusty egret]

I mean, sun still increases damage, so I mean, there is no downside to casting it as Meta isnt availible to cast

But Tsnami, that is an issue with the perk yeah

[fiery veldt]

The adremanagement, please. Give me your thoughts on that. As i said, tsunaminis off. You miss out on a lot of adre. How do you solve it

[knotty flare]

if you're on roar you'll just get tons of adren, and you use wave to effectively constantly get increments of 20 due to not paying that cost. If you're not on roar you're probably on crit build and between your burst window anyways

[fiery veldt]

Also: what does eq mean for tendrils? Are they even useable then, they are always crits, what happens to them

[lusty egret]

Well with the blast diffusion boots, Gsonic, wild magic, combust, dragonbreath, gcb, all the way back up to where you need to be I suppose. The damage increase of 8% from wild magic and the cd of wildmagic should carry damage with an also 14% damage increase, now that thresholds only need low adrenaline to cast the issue is sunshine but that can be brought down to a 55% cost with runic->gsonic

Ava, I would not use tendrils at all under Equilibrium at all tbh

[small wadi]

also exsanguinate affects base ability damage now, which means it works with everything

[fiery veldt]

I know, just curious how it is affected by it (tendrils)

[lusty egret]

Yeah exsanguinate is cracked for this build, and you would not even need incite fear at all with no buff to Tsunami

[small wadi]

without crits smoke tendrils is 340% ability damage that takes 4.8 seconds and hurts you, asphyxiate is better

[lusty egret]

Just tested it, no increase. It was hitting low.

[fiery veldt]

So it just is converted into normal hitsplats ok

[lusty egret]

Yup, it is more worth to use with FSOA + spec as well

[vestal trench]

So curious; why Gutt magic so terribly?
it feels completely gutted in its damage to the point its hardly sustaining matching near Melee/Ranged at all.

[fiery veldt]

Thats for sure

[lusty egret]

I agree, meta and old Greater Sonic gave it all its versitility. I kept saying that but people say they weren't used. They were used in end teir PvM and speedkills for sure along with niche uses like wand spec. They added an 8% increase to basic abilities from casting wild magic for 6 seconds after, but that is to basics. As for increase to the 3 with the wand orb its gone but they increased wand stack damage by 300%

[fiery veldt]

Tbh new sonic feels better to me xd

[vestal trench]

I absolutely agree, I prefer Metamorph over sunshine honestly in many scenarios.

why all it does is reduce adrenaline cost for 20% but realistically aside from cheaper sunshine its never used

[lusty egret]

Yeah it increased everything, um as for sonic, yeah new sonic is okay, but why replace it, why not add a new ability and keep sonic

[fiery veldt]

Debateable, i never really used metamorph, so can't say a lot about it

[lusty egret]

Wrack, detonate, deep impact full agree, get them out of here.
Meta was 1.66 damage increase compared to Sunshine's 1.5 and worked on everything where Sunshine did not, Sonic Wave increase the damage of everything by 8% for the duration of the ability.

The problem in non use was shared cooldowns, if that wasn't an issue, rotations would not be entirely made around the other 2.

There is no reason to cast GCB before tendrils, wandspec, combust, corruptionblast, magmatempest

[lusty egret]

I rarely used sunshine ever, wasnt even on a bar until now

[fiery veldt]

Cant say im missing it but for people who liked morph it sureley sucks to be removed. You could argue that for every ability. I'd be upset if they removed sun, allthough I think, they should make it like zerk, to solve immobility issues

[graceful sundial]

I'm curious about something with all these changes where does using a one handed and shield falls into combat wise?

[fiery veldt]

Never, or almost never

[gritty tree]

the past, since bone shield

[fiery veldt]

Switching is an option but just for defensives but yeah bone shield does exist so

[lusty egret]

When this was the output with No Sunshine/no fsoa, yeah I used meta because of the crazy damage.

[fiery veldt]

Im not saying morph was bad dmg, thats not my reasoning behind it, i just didnt like it 😄

[lusty egret]

Sheild is still used for some abilities like Debilitate with Bulwark 4, and extending cade with Turtling as swaps but otherewise, no reason when bone sheild exists

[lusty egret]

So with that being the case Aftershock 1 on your main weapon is not needed if you primariliy use bone shield. If you use the green nexus, it should be equipped in your ammo slot if possible to increase the rank of boneshield to T75

[graceful sundial]

It's kinda sad since sword and board is my favorite fantasy style... I was hoping they would do something with it

[glacial jasper]

I only use spirit shields for some of the "fail mechanics" CAs

[lusty egret]

The revenge ability is absolutley cracked my friend if that is your playstyle, you cant do that with anything else

[fiery veldt]

Yeah not gonna happen in rs3 🙁

[glacial jasper]

since for some of them you don't need to kill the boss fast or efficiently, you just need to meet the condition and then be able to kill it all, so spirit shield is good for that chunk of CA

[fiery veldt]

Rsguy tried a thorns build. Didnt work out that well id say

[glacial jasper]

but even then it's just a swap to live the specific thing I need to intentionally fail

[undone shadow]

Revert today’s magic update, fix auto spells so we can cast them outside of gcd again.

[lusty egret]

I am still upset about the Equilibrium weapon perk not working

[fiery veldt]

How much did you spend on it

[lusty egret]

I disassembled my existing wand and orb that was already leveled, and bought a new set to throw the perks on. Each cost 180m, and I got Eq4R1 when I wanted Eq4E2 so that also sucks.

[fiery veldt]

Dang xd

So, i kinda want to know to what conclusions your testing will lead you, can i add you ingame?

[lusty egret]

I leave private 100% offline, um, you can add me on discord tho

[fiery veldt]

Okay

[twilit sonnet]

why dont they do this stuff to osrs, they complain we're whining they should make the minions in bandos in osrs stun

[fiery veldt]

Can you pls send request im not that familiar with dc xd

[twilit sonnet]

see how they like it lmao

[wintry patio]

why double dip on removing sanctum equipment from the economy? why not try the two options separately? this just punishes ironmen for existing.

[lusty egret]

It is sanctum and amascut drops

You get 4 if they are augmented and leveled past level 9, 1 each if not.

2 for tumekens light 8 leveled

[pulsar ether]

It’s 5x less comps than noxious gear, IDK why they decided to make ecliptic comps so much worse than biting

[lusty egret]

Agreed. If the comparative perk and chance matches Biting, and has a limited list of weapons, obtaining the components should be matched.

[twilit hearth]

yea bet player count tanked after this update

[wintry patio]

yes, but I couldn't care less about the components. my issue is them making drops even less common with no duplicate protection just for the sake of the economy.

[lethal kestrel]

300 player difference than last mondays. No real difference today tldr.

[twilit hearth]

yea they are checking out the nerfs check again tomorrow

[lethal kestrel]

We will see. I dont think this is the real player count killer.

[knotty flare]

Oh no it's reduced from 96% autowin down from 100% after the huge buffs to the general player base, shut it down

[opal plaza]

we discussed that matter early, and we agreed we need a cheaper version of the perk, just like bitting 2-3, maybe use some dead content components like bandos

[polar forum]

The nerfs where needed. Magic and mele are still in really good spots

[lean cosmos]

ppl are saying magic is worse than necro now lol

[polar forum]

Wut. That makes no sense.
I saw mage do significantly more damage than necro

[coral night]

they will probably rework shields when they do 120 HP and 120 Defense

Devs pretty please can you guys implement a Necro 2H weapon.... all the other skills have them and Necro doesnt makes me sad

[pulsar ether]

Both are needed IMO, a weaker component for lower tiers and better quantities of ecliptics for higher perk tiers. You don’t need quite 5 base since you only need equi for Necro but you need biting for three styles, but it should be like three base ecliptic components per disassembly not one.

[pulsar ether]

It’s not planned to happen this year unfortunately, I asked Mod Azanna.

[coral night]

which part?

[pulsar ether]

No necromancy 2H for a while
Shield rework is confirmed to happen with 120 def/con but there’s no confirmed date on that yet either.

[coral night]

dang that makes me sad

[coral night]

well thats good to hear about defense, and shield rework atm shields are dead but i dont agree with taking away bone shield, also did they say next year for necro 2H

[pulsar ether]

It was Ryan not Azanna actually, but yeah zero plans yet for a necromancy 2H.

[coral night]

yea i appreciate that makes me sad hopefully someone has ambition to design and implement some unique weapons for Necro and maybe some 2H weapons at different tiers

[pulsar ether]

I myself had a pretty barebones idea for a necro 2H of losing single-target conjures in exchange for massively buffed AoE with Death Scythe. We’d need to have a non-conjures-focused necro armor to really make it work though.
#1330600735951290479 message

[coral night]

yea bro like could you imagine like some sick all black skull lanturn with a syth on other end dude people would go crazy

i wish the devs would put more bad ass looking weapons in the game... like why does old school constantly get new gear and weapons and Rs3 its like heres 1 weapon every once a year lol

[pulsar ether]

They aren’t entirely against it, but it’s unlikely to come from Bandos.

[lusty egret]

No. As someone who has used magic daily for years, nah way worse, I swapped to range. So bad.

[polar forum]

you just need to learn to use the new magic

[lusty egret]

Yeah. No, I know how to use it. It is boring, and trash damage compared to everything else, it was more damage before the updates.

[polar forum]

Your loss then

[lusty egret]

I am hoping it will be fixed to match everything else's output.

[polar forum]

It already does. Its been tested. it matches/beats ranged and is not much worse than mele

[pulsar ether]

Just campaign for deleting smoke cloud and reversing the fsoa+tums nerf.

[lusty egret]

It should not be entirely dependent on one aurmor set's effect to do actual damage.

[small wadi]

hope they add to the base kit instead of just re-adjusting tumeken's and fsoa

[lusty egret]

A also hope they restore it

[pulsar ether]

Melee is far, far worse in that regard. Malevolent->Vestments is a bigger upgrade than ZGS->EZK.

[small wadi]

melee is way less topheavy than ranged and magic

[zealous warren]

Cross posted from pvme

[lusty egret]

If you want to know how broken the game is, you can be fully dressed in any other style, and still hit high damage with any other styles weapon equipped.

Can tribrid with no aurmor swap at all. That is how all the crazy game records are being broken.

[pulsar ether]

That’s mainly due to 120 stats massively juicing accuracy compared to pre-beta. Since armor penalty is additive, going from 4000 accuracy minus 900 to 5000 accuracy minus 900 is actually more than a 25% accuracy buff, it’s a 30% accuracy buff instead.

[lusty egret]

Yeah, I mean throw anything, and it works, you can do an ezk spec in any gear, you can do a wand spec in any gear and still hit basically normally, more like -500 damage but whats that on a 6k hit or an 80k ezk like it is insane.

[polar forum]

Simple fix. Give accuracy the same penalty while ungeared.

[pulsar ether]

Huh?

I’d rather we just deleted accuracy penalty so noobs don’t troll themselves. Let “not having power armor” be its own penalty, and give crypt bloom a -25% (or so) off-style damage penalty to heavily discourage Animate Dead off-style.

[polar forum]

Honestly. I dont care. Mele feels good now and im happy.

[iron jolt]

It was nice for a bit seeing people leave Necro to try other styles, hopefully they fix this nerf. Melee is still good if you're amulet switching with the Am-Hej, Mage sucks, they definitely nerfed mage too much. atm Mage is weaker than it was pre EOC 2

[small wadi]

the insinuation that someone using necro "tried" magic by buying both fsoa and tumeken's is funny

[onyx mirage]

Especially if they sold it back for necro, because in about a week people are gonne be back to using it, considering Jagex has mentioned theyll be undoing some of the nerfs they did this week to magic :P

[knotty flare]

That just loads more value into singular parts of the kit. Like if ranged kept saying "bonus adren, bonus crit chance, sustain, and more, whatever people ask for ranged buffs" all on bolg

[lusty egret]

I mean at this point, range benifits adren from arrow strikes, crits are not as needed for damage, the bolg spec buffs the amount of hits you do, therefore more adrenaline. Magic, if you do not have crits, you do not have adrenaline, plus the damage your critical strikes do is buffed. Melee is more building stacks and releasing them efficiently. But, really you have to have the gear that matches the styles to use everything effectively per style, BOLG, FSOA, but what about crossbows, and wand orb? Still in the same bucket as before, even with the buff to the roar and ode in terms of stack damage, they do not benifit from a crit build as everything it works with does not crit, but you don't have adrenaline if you do not crit so even Equilibrium is a nerf buff. Instead of introducing that, they should've added a small buff to Eruptive as it is only a 2% increase at max rank 4. E4 and Lunging 4 really are all the roar and ode have, it is a giant gap between damage output of that and FSOA when they are the same level. So if you are broke, trying to grab another style, they cost billions, and now the cheaper option is inflating in price for a perk, that in putting it on the roar of awakening myself, does not even work, I asked my friend to throw a wand spec with a wand with E4 on it and it did the same amount of damage AND he was in full necro gear, he swapped to magic gear and it did 40 damage LESS a tick. It makes no sense, even the new perk did not increase the wand spec (which I was testing for if there was an increase) there should have been a 14% increase, with no meta, and no 8% sonicflow stacks wand orb is pointless to even have outside of a wandspec. For years they said they would update the staff of sliske spec, why can't we have that do something to help wand orb instead of forcing wand to be an eof weapon/nothing useful anymore.

[hollow hollow]

I'm starting to think the issue really is that melee is now trying to be the burst style and the style camp long berserk style at the same time and it might not be possible keep both identities.

1. We would have to lower either every special attack and spender damage

2. Address the root issue by simply making you deal 50% less damage through berserk vs pre-beta

3. Or keep eofs relevant by locking berserk to only 1 overpower like before.

1 and 2 would commit melee to the new bloodlust and no eof identity but ruin melee burst in a lot of boss scenarios, which would be a consequence. 3 would be more reasonable imo but learners would be stuck dpsing with assault and tracking their flurry, though that might be fine. Melee would still keep the bloodlust stack identity with option 3.

4. My personal preference but uncertain one would be to reintroduce the melee tradeoff of extra damage taken or powerful dharoks effect but I don't know how if that's hard to balance.

[iron jolt]

why not both? If you opt for longer zerks you're doing less damage because flurrys kinda weak if target isn't below at least 50% health, if you opt for more dmg well then short zerk, simply enough

[hollow hollow]

Flurry might be the same damage as assault even at full hp

[iron jolt]

This is huge, completely agree with these changes to magic. And fully agree with what's said on melee

[iron jolt]

it definitely isn't

it does do more more damage when target is at least <71% health tho

[hollow hollow]

Interesting, though it's lossless to extend berserk and always more damage if it's possible, though I'm not sure if the site was updated post nerf. Regardless though, the reason why not both is because this is likely the main reason for the chart from RS Guy's stream.

[hollow hollow]

You know what, what if we rework melee this way. Give the low hp effect to assault and increase assault cd, make flurry the main spender for melee + lower the cooldown on flurry AND make berserk duration last 12 seconds so that you are always flurrying to keep berserk active.

Less time to use overpowers, more urgency to spend adren, more interesting ways to keep yourself doing damage, more channel locked similar to magic so there's more tradeoffs + you don't always have a target to flurry so it's more interesting, less uptime on ezk 12% damage buff, picking assault vs flurry is an actual decision for extending zerk or upfront damage with a consequence

Make this baseline flurry with bloodlust and turn greater flurry codex into greater assault that has the low hp buff.

[iron jolt]

Brother, I say this with love, that's wild.

[hollow hollow]

We do be panicking with current melee a little bit

[distant depot]

so that you are always flurrying to keep berserk active
Wouldn't that keep draining your adrenaline so you never get berserk? That's so counter-intuitive to me.

[hollow hollow]

The duration is up to debate, it could end up having maximum potential to last 35 seconds as current one

[grave egret]

Personally i think magic was nerfed much too hard in the latest update. It feels a lot worse than before the first combat updates.
I can see the need for a nerf on the complete endgame gear, but i would like to see a situation were the dmg is not nerfed.
I liked the fact on the old fsoa that it used a lot of ressources, but had much power. Potentially add back that the rune economy on fsoa is really bad (maybe worse than the original fsoa?).
This would mean that it is not always justified to use full power of fsoa due to the cost of runes and add some money making potential back into the runecrafting skill.

[celest pilot]

btw whats the reason this time ppl cry and dislike the post?

melee nerf or fsoa?

[iron jolt]

Melees fine, Magic is weaker than it was pre EOC 2

[faint sphinx]

Mage nerfs have been too much. I can accept that mage was overtuned but i dont understand why gradual decreases were used instead of big slashes.

Contrary to what was stated, fsoa and tumeken to a smaller extent have been “gutted” in a sense.

I hope jmods do talk about this soon. During the beta there was excellent communication both here and at pvme discord but now its just radio silence all over.

Really disheartening.

[faint sphinx]

Is there a source for that? Im currently on hopium lmao.

[distant depot]

From the blog:

To better support the fantasy of being a fast and agile Ranger, peppering your target with arrows, bolts, and other ammo - we're turning Death's Swiftness into a self buff, allowing you to freely move while active.
I just did a couple Legiones kills and they require sooooo much movement (or taking a heck of a lot of damage).
One HUGE problem I'm having is every time I click the boss, then click the floor to move, no attacks or abilities go off at all and I'm constantly moving mouse between boss and floor, not floor and next bit of floor I want to move to and that's really awkward.

To get attacks off with revolution, I need to click the boss, wait a few ticks (not sure exactly how many) and then move. If I stand still long enough to wait for an ability to go, the bosses floor lightning gets me EVERY time (failing the achievement, see screenshot).
I don't think this run-and-shoot play style works AT ALL currently with Revolution, like it fails on a fundamental level / they aren't at all compatible. Revolution is supposed to use the next available ability, but it instead uses no abilities at all. So yeah, just some feedback that if this is the play-style that is wanted for Ranged (which don't get me wrong, it sounds fun), it just doesn't work right now and I think revolution needs to be changed/fixed to accommodate that. Keep abilities going even when moving.

That obviously introduces the challenge of how to stop attacking - but I guess that's what Cease is for

[pulsar ether]

Gale->Rapid->Snapshot->Snapshot->Snapshot should get the kill pretty easily with t90 gear

[distant depot]

I thought my kills were quick but then saw the achievement is 18 seconds which is wild

[orchid pivot]

tbh it's going to be near impossible to make me feel like an agile ranger while attacking can't be done at the same time as moving

It's to much of a pain to spam click to move while also spamming keybinds to do attacks

[storm plinth]

Basic attack makes this much easier to do. Its been brought up before several times and ive never really seen any indication that its going to change (might not be possible or w/e), but we can hope that this revolution change is possible.

I personally suspect its part of how the engine works, since in osrs you dont move and attack either, needing to click between movement, but the way the gcd and such works here does make it feel a bit clunkier if youre relying purely on clicks and not on your ability keybinds

[distant depot]

I tried this and the combo half-killed it, but still got a new record 😁

😮 This time I crit. I'm feelin' like the competent time is possible. 👀

[lean cosmos]

just be more competent fr

[distant depot]

Ty for the advice ❤️

[storm plinth]

Legios are a funny boss because you wanna get right up in their face... for a boss designed around ranging

[distant depot]

I've been running around in a big wide circle. Only killed the one with the cheapest keystone tho' There was an update so all bosses share a key?! That explains why I only had 1 kind in the bank 😮 Got a signet drop so onto the next. This would be such a terrible reaper task for ironfolks 😅 26 kills would be what, like 5 hours of grinding for keys?

I wonder if the -25% instance cost from death could be replaced with 50% chance to save a key from Legiones/Magister/any other bosses that have a consumable entrance effect.

[pulsar ether]

oh yeah, for some reason they do have a heavy damage reduction for if you're not close to them. Not useful for the "dodge the lightning" but useful for speedkills.

[distant depot]

That's really good to know 😮 I finished my Reaper task anyways and got +4 achievements - but dreading Death giving them again 'cause all out of keys

[storm plinth]

This is what rerolling exists for 🙂

Simply say "no" next time and death legally can't give you legios (at least ive never rerolled into the same task)

[distant depot]

I tend to avoid the rerolls 'cause I want the points and think it's a 50% penalty 😅 Savin' up for an essense of finality + extra hydrixes to recharge it

[pulsar ether]

the first roll is free, the second is a 25% penalty, third is 50% penalty.

[lethal kestrel]

Funny thing actually. The acc increase didnt actually increase the damage output from the beta. A core goal of the beta was to adjust it so that pre beta 99 roughly = to post beta 120. This included accuracy.

It did get the 4% boost from going 120 though.

Oh a yesterday comment. Love how bad discord updates feed. genuinely thought it was a recent comment.

[distant depot]

Oh neat, one freebie is very good to know about

[storm plinth]

It feels awful when I get, say, gwd1, and i reroll into legios or smth. Thankfully close to wars4 to make that a non issue

[onyx mirage]

I know there were other things he said too, but do expect a reqwind of some of the magic nerfs, not all. Likely fsoa and tumeken might get rewound a little as well. Also that pfp :P

Expect it next weekish.

[hollow hollow]

Probably huge melee changes but I'm not too sure on the magic. might still be better than range at Amascut

[blissful wharf]

I expect some magic un-nerfs. I don't think melee needs to/will be changed much further

[faint sphinx]

Thanks. I hope it is what it means tho. But im keeping my hopes up. Still inreally wish they stop these huge number nerfs and just gradually move the slider instead.

[onyx mirage]

People would only be upset for longer. :p Its just how Runescape is.

[hollow hollow]

There might've been a certain stream that happened XD if you know you know

[glacial jasper]

if we're really gonna change death swiftness can we at least get something to make it mechanically interesting as a buff, like for example if it was on hits it could be a good tool for teaching people to hit count abilities before BOLG/wens/spores. Raw buffs to damage are the least interesting form of damage buffs

[hollow hollow]

Yeah I don't think there will be too many buffs going forward, so range losing a trade-off might be a bit unfair to magic

And trade-offs are good for healthy boss design regardless. Hance some of the melee issues

hence*

[glacial jasper]

I just, really am attached to leylines effects and if it goes I atleast want something interesting in return. I think part of the problem I'm seeing is people think you have to stand completely still in the puddle and don't realize you have an entire 7x7 zone to work with which while can still be rough is still a LOT of space to dodge stuff with planned movement. And I think even though it's the same mechanically as sunshine, eoc2 has differentiated magic and ranged enough that I don't mind this one thing being similar

part of that I'll note for both sunshine and swiftness is the effective zone not matching the visual which a square version would solve

[blissful wharf]

Ranged is currently naturally disadvantaged because it doesn't have a t95 switch and has no t95 armor. I wouldn't be surprised if they left it a bit lower DPS-wise right now to allow for future expected power added there.

[scenic pelican]

seems little unnatural for Swiftness, ZGS spec and Sunshine to be squares is the problem. Like as in visuals

but it would avoid a lot of practical confusion

[hollow hollow]

Range is a bit ahead of mage right now while mage is around the same dps as pre-beta. I definitely think range should have some kind of tradeoff in it's current state. Some people could say the lack of aoe. We can discuss that

[glacial jasper]

I haven't ever had much issue with ranged AOE, even being t75 I do a lot of elite dungeons and ranged kinds just destroys trash, I often get comments on how much faster runs go with me when I take ranged to trilogy runs with my clan

If anything I see sustain and high upgrade costs as the main setbacks for people

[blissful wharf]

Ranged has no unique sustain apart from.. onyx bolts (lol). The other 3 syles have some built-in sustain.

[glacial jasper]

by t75 I mean mechs chins to clarify, I have BOLG and edraco

[hollow hollow]

Are mech chins still good after the update?

[scenic pelican]

I think making vamp scrims avail for all styles might be good, though not useful in high end as you lose grim

[glacial jasper]

I don't think the damage is bad, not sure how consumption is

[hollow hollow]

And is mage sustain from blood spells? I forgot

[scenic pelican]

maybe make scrim activatable in inventory

[glacial jasper]

I was thinking all styles can vamp scrim but let melee just get more out of it if they really want melee to be the leech style

[scenic pelican]

That works

[blissful wharf]

Yeah, magic blood spells are decent at the moment for some sustain.

Magic also doesn't have/isn't dependent on Split Soul like Necro and Ranged rotations.

[small wadi]

ranged will have sustain soon...

[scenic pelican]

how?

[small wadi]

vampyrism aspect

[scenic pelican]

but you lose out on darkness

[small wadi]

No one cares about darkness, on god, plus ranged has a lot of hitsplats

[hollow hollow]

I lowkey forgot about ecb. Hmm maybe range should be a bit ahead compared to magic

[blissful wharf]

Non style unique though. The other 3 styles can stack sustain. Ranged cant

[small wadi]

I wasn't talking relative, I was talking absolute; ranged will have sustain (without spending sara bow adrenaline)

[hollow hollow]

Ah but Temporal Anomaly is a factor

[scenic pelican]

true TA

[blissful wharf]

I guess? Everyone can use vamp and SS now if we wanna talk about things broadly.

[small wadi]

Yeah sure but it's a temp state, without combat auras removed you would go for a dps aura

There's also the slight possibility vamp gets buffed to compete with darkness more since people are so worried about that

[scenic pelican]

yeah people want a vamp buff for aspect, The cap is pretty bad

[glacial jasper]

is the vampirism aspect gonna have the same 50 hit cap as the aura did or is gonna be increased?

[scenic pelican]

no ones said anything about buffing it, just been complained about

[real patio]

Penance aspect is nice and all but why not give a consistent source of golden roses instead?

[scenic pelican]

true, not a bad idea, buff golden roses to the moon but forget the aspect

Though it may take too much pressure off inventory. There's no downside to using it 100% of the time.

[glacial jasper]

I just use blessed flask and ancient elven shard but methinks that's not the layman's solution to prayer

[scenic pelican]

Yeah, you pay through your wallet or supplies for it. if penance powder was 50k or less people wouldn't need blessed flask much or elven shard or even super restores/ppots

[distant depot]

I made a good chunk of restores a while ago and haven't had to make more in a while, but I can't remember exactly how I got the stuff, snapdragon seeds aren't exactly common. 😅

[scenic pelican]

I think AOD and Vyres. Pre herb drop tables for aod

[glacial jasper]

I got a bunch from base Nex and Seren Spirits

[scenic pelican]

Yeah nex craps them out

[distant depot]

Oh it might have been nex keeping me going, she drops restores a lot and that's where I've used most my death darts
Oh and probably elite clues too

[glacial jasper]

aw man

I have like, 3 shitty unscripted guides on my YouTube channel and one of those is on how to think about optimizing for death swiftness uptime

[hallow radish]

Whats everyone putting on necro to combo with equi?

[glacial jasper]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlQ8Jtpa5ldudVA9XRovqyQDdyePv57m3?si=LIDifOjCjKR3iF7g

It's so simple but I felt like such a badass when I got this down the first time

[storm plinth]

Ive been told edraco is effectively t95 for all intents and purposes, balance and design included. Ive asked the team to make it literally t95 to reducd confusion over in pvme. The t95 dual wields dont make a massive difference in power - mage and melee camp 2h and only switch to duals.

[honest lodge]

you can try albion first, or name any other mmo for that matter that has auto-targeting for auto-attacks

i doubt there is any mmorpg that allows you to auto-attack while moving

the only exception is if the auto attacks are created as uninterruptible channels; but that would mean a manual trigger for canceling the auto-attack is needed instead

therefore, i think your expectations of revo mechanic is a completely niche one - which i believe most of those who play like you do are expecting

in which case, this will probably never happen anytime soon

[distant depot]

I can't think of any other game that has a revolution-like mechanic so don't know if it really has any precedent. But yeah, it is a bit niche. I'd be happy if clicking the boss then clicking away did the next revo move and not literally nothing.

[hollow hollow]

I can see there being a toggle to have the character doing the basic attack

[opal plaza]

since we dont have a dc thread to talk about this..... is true that rs membership is more expensive than WOW or FF14?

[glacial jasper]

p sure xiv autos do

[hallow radish]

Idk the price of other games but looks like 15$ if you arent grandfathered

[jaunty karma]

Thats on track with FF14 last time i played was like 10 years ago tho

[odd iron]

Randomly saw this comment and figured that id tell you that your wrong first off. Almost every mmo allows auto attack while moving.

[vestal trench]

I think your misunderstanding; but auto attacking while moving isn't permitted in any MMO that I know.
Can you name one?

Bare in mind the context I am reading is Auto Attacking while moving, which not even Runescape 3 permits.

which by far Runescape 3 is the least complex combat out of all comparison to any other Real MMO as lets be realistic, OSRS while a good game on its own, is not a real mmo

[odd iron]

WoW is a prime example.

[rotund linden]

Ffxiv autos do, at least for the sch

And the lack of people that use them is annoying. You'll have dps flaming a tank while getting out dpsd by the healer

[odd iron]

Thats why I said I dont know why that arguement came up, you can auto attack in almost every mmo while moving so I dont know how that was even considered.

[vestal trench]

so accurate tbh.

however I was unaware of ffxiv while moving, WoW on otherhand I guess you could count this game, I actually didn't even think of it initially but your 100% right.

[odd iron]

What do you mean you couldcount wow? like it doesn't fit the arguement?

[vestal trench]

it absolutely does fit the arguement, its just not the games I initially thought of initially.
its absolutely me admitting your correct; I stand corrected.

[weary void]

many in game peeps that I know just canceled their recurring membership. 😢

[vestal trench]

However the statement wasn't originally provided by me; I just jumped in and thought after waking up; clearly needed my morning coffee. 😂

[vestal trench]

kinda odd to cancel membership costs for something that realistically doesn't affect you if you remain within the grandfathered and swap to monthly if the price is a massive concern. 🤷

I think a lot of players jump to say they are leaving rs but many genuinley follow through with that claim anymore.

but if you look at player retention/activity it quiet honestly has been showing to work.

[weary void]

many have left since the last change. Trust me I played with them for 18+ yrs and they have no longer been playing.

[vestal trench]

as a Player who has witnessed the decline through 2010 -> 2012 (I get alot of people blame EoC, I think it was much more nuance then just EoC)
and has played through each of the transitions, We've recently been on a inclined in player counts for the last while, which is a pretty positive thing.

I don't agree with all changes that have been announced and occuring, expeshly how gutted magic feels right now, but ultimately as a collective group of the updates, the stats speak for themselves. Playerbase is on an Increase.

[woeful stream]

Magic needed to be gutted with the fsoa/tumeken changes - hopefully the devs can acknowledge and change how god awful and boring the mage kit feels at its core

[small wadi]

they made gales to make rapid fire a mainstay and did no such thing with asphyxiate

[rotund linden]

Ye asphyx still feels bad to use ngl

Asked in ovme earlier and they said the idea is use it like a 2nd wild magic and cut it off soon as you can. Just like pre changes

Messed around and did gano/animate dead + pray mage and only blood barrage autos and got a few 0 input kills 😆

[hollow hollow]

Mage is meant to be channel locked too so it makes sense

[faint sphinx]

Whats this stream?

[small wadi]

I don't think they've ever opened up dedicated feedback channels for price changes, sounds stupid

[twilit sonnet]

it actually has not it has been the same or maybe by 100 players less

[solemn imp]

you can't swap if you did not sub TWO years ago, funny right?

[vestal trench]

so active during the hour doesnt look like it has changed; however a way to tell active playerbase regardless of time zone, is check into the leaderboards; as those are active accounts.
which has infact increased.

[vestal trench]

well if you didn't have a Subscription 2 years ago you don't have a grandfathered price anyhow, so it wouldn't make a difference for those players to attempt to, as there is no grandfathered price for players in less then that time span.

[orchid gulch]

How does raising subscription prices encourage game growth? You're screwing over new player growth. I wouldn't pay the price it already was let alone the hike price. I'm happy I have the original grandfather price or I'd be gone. All the changes that have taken place after the mtx removal has reeked hell on my friends. With every new blog they reaffirm they are not renewing their sub. I'm starting to wonder if Jagex is trying to kill the game.

[solemn imp]

you did not understand me well, if you have subscription using different method like bonds, premier then your grandfather is gone, on general there was multiple users that get thier month subscription with grandfather prices cancelled today even tho they did not do that ony cos they also had premier subscription active, so technically only if you pay monthly subscription for last TWO years your grandfather rates is safe. You can't change it anymore and if you did not do it the way they want you are screwed and your rates is gone

[solemn imp]

next 25 years of growth they said, I will cancel my members but I buy it with bonds so can't, I was aiming at grandfateher rates after but this is gone for me now too so I guess will just stop play all together. I'm pretty sure there is quite lot ppl that was same place as me, current price make new players hard to put into the game and my firends that start consider trying backtrack after today changes. Hope they will consider this change and make it back or they will have hard time

[small wadi]

if you won't play runescape for its asking price, yeah maybe just don't play at all

[orchid gulch]

They should have given people with a grandfathered rate but were on the premier a heads up to be able to change before they lose their grandfather.

[woeful horizon]

I stoped playing for several reasons as well my sub not set for renew

[orchid gulch]

This is not good for the game

[woeful horizon]

Also didnt like when they changed to subcription based

[small wadi]

if the game is not good enough to pay for without a discount, then it shouldn't be played, put your money where your mouth is

[orchid gulch]

It's getting to be not worth it with all the things they are changing

[small wadi]

then cancel your sub

[woeful horizon]

Done and done lol

[orchid gulch]

I am grandfathered at the lowest price so I'm concerend for the new players that don't want to pay the price

[vestal trench]

I can absolutely assure you having premier, or utilizing bonds does not infact remove your ability for Grandfathered prices.

[small wadi]

For the record, whining about it in an unrelated channel isn't going to change anything. If you don't want to pay, cancel, and if Jagex sees a big enough spike in cancellations they might do something. If they don't, then there's your answer.

[polar forum]

They did.

[vestal trench]

Ive had premier, and still have my grandfathered price.
there is a confusion in regards to premier was not affected prices on premier, which is true the premier was not cheaper, but month to month purchases absolutely still maintains the grandfathered prices, as long as you have your membership continued.

[orchid gulch]

They of corse didn't give us a place to discuss it

[small wadi]

Why would they? There's nothing to discuss. You either pay it or you don't, vote with your wallet and all

[orchid gulch]

I'm sorry they are not really that clear on that

[polar forum]

Have till april 10th iirc to switch over.

[cyan minnow]

People have been discussing in #runescape or #general all day. This channel is for the combat updates yesterday

[orchid gulch]

Thank you, will do 👍

[copper flicker]

Was there any update from Mod Pigeon about the combat update ? It looks like everyone was given the day off.

[cyan minnow]

As in today? I have not seen anything.
The #social-feed might have something, but they were probably working on behind the scenes stuff today, rather than socials

[twilit hearth]

hows everyone appreciate the nerfs to combat followed immediately by rate hikes

[small wadi]

read #runescape or #general to find out

[polar forum]

No real reaction here. Mele feels good still. Increase was pretty obviously guna happen.

[twilit hearth]

feel that what about mage

[hollow hollow]

The RS Guy one

[polar forum]

Yeah. Mage feels fine to me

[twilit hearth]

feel better pre nerf or pre update either or to me

[polar forum]

People just need some time to figure out proper rotations. Lota new stuff

[twilit hearth]

id be willing to bet they dial back the nerf to mage tbh

[regal onyx]

I wish ranged just got a smidge more love. player stats literally didnt change for the style after the entire overhaul. feels bad man

[hollow hollow]

I wouldn't mind if they increased bolg and ecb duration so it doesn't feel like there is much upkeep. Probably a few nerfs in that case as well. Might need a decent few nerfs if getting the mobile swiftness as well

Personally I would prefer mobile swifntess come with crossbows and have crossbows do less damage than bolg

[digital trellis]

classic Jamflex timing

[lyric axle]

I am sad they didn’t add the sandwich tray Carrier

[mossy anvil]

They literally released the stats where ranged saw a 85% increase for boss kills atleast

[twilit hearth]

Don't think that's the proper wording to describe my question also dont think what you add to the conversation was about the combat changes and thus forth should be moved to general

[small wadi]

ranged is gonna get mobile death's swiftness next week supposedly, while there are thoughts of combining shadows and death's swiftness but no actual commitment from jmods

[sick heart]

Wait really? Where did they mention this

[hollow hollow]

Range seems to be at a good place at the moment. They mentioned adding in swiftness at a later time. Could be when range is in dire need

[faint sphinx]

I know that jmod comments on pvme indicate that they are aware that mage got overnerfed. But i do wish they give some official statement. Idk why they became so radio silent since the march 3rd launch of the combat modernization.

[hollow hollow]

Probably because of the demand for powercreep compared to pre-beta out of nowhere

[gritty tree]

Not much to take away from those stats tbf, it's obvious that after an update people are gonna try things out.

[small wadi]

if you mean mobile death's swiftness, literally in the news post

[honest lodge]

ok. fair enough, there are games that have that. and i'd next ask, why? and if you have to cancel, how is that being done?

in rs3 right now, we can interrupt our attacks via moment or the cease "ability"

i do recognise there are pros to having basic attacks being "auto-on" as per the example given when kiting the enemy.

however, there are also cons, such as not canceling an attack you normally would have via movement

therefore, in my example of albion, the mechanic is similar to rs3 where you dont continue with auto attacking while moving

again, pros and cons

so, i can recognise a possibility of this being a setting for us to turn on or off in a distant future (sadly)

[hollow hollow]

We could also give some power to base magic by making a low level familiar give half the crit chance of kalg and same for a low level ring slot. This basically avoids taking anything from the power budget.

If powercreep remains an issue, would look at either deleting vuln bombs or doing an invisible stat change.

[dry stirrup]

Killerwatt unique:
Ring of conductivity

• +1% crit chance for magic abilities

[honest lodge]

one huge qol would to have the equipment stats UI update dynamically to our equipments and buffs, so we know our current crit chance and crit damage - instead of a flat and static number that provides no real value unless you're naked

[scenic pelican]

deleting vuln would be great

[distant depot]

I'd delete stagger/enfeeble before vuln. Very rarely use any of 'em but do vuln more

[glacial jasper]

there's so many fucking ways they can handle death swiftness without just making the ability a boring damage buff

I don't get why it can't just be a fleeting boots perk

[hallow radish]

Mobile death swiftness sounds broken ngl

[glacial jasper]

it sounds boring

in the very least if they're gonna gut positioning requirements they should make the mechanism of damage be on hit to give people a chance to practice counting before getting to BOLG/wens/spores

[regal onyx]

Overall kills was 0% though. So that can easily be chocked up to testing it out vs actively using it

[mental pollen]

mage got overnerfed
Did it though?

[lethal kestrel]

jmods did meme it did

[mental pollen]

Ah memeing makes more sense hehe

[lethal kestrel]

i mean its a hint they know it was a big nerf

[mental pollen]

big nerf to big op balances out :^)

[faint sphinx]

It did. Im not sure what happened exactly but i feel that nerfing both tumeken and fsoa ended up cascading due to how synergised mage kit is. Many testers reported that the dpm was somewhat lower than pre beta.

I do accept that mage was soemwhat op post beta but the nerfs were maybe too hard and a middle ground can be achieved.

Still, from what i saw the jmods do seem to get that the nerfs maybe too much. Time will tell and hopefully we get a reprive on monday

[copper flicker]

Jmods have been eerily quiet for 3 days now

[small wadi]

Yeah, it's unfortunate everyone has to stop communicating due to mobs, I really hope the design blogs aren't delayed

[hollow hollow]

Mage Vorkath post-nerf seems similar to pre-beta to me but haven't checked other places

[blissful wharf]

Developers and community managers have probably been asked to let some of the things they aren't organizationally aligned to respond to air out for a bit to avoid getting mobbed.

[copper flicker]

It’s not going to suddenly go away either. People are rightfully upset.

[blissful wharf]

Let's be real here; 11 days until Havenhythe launches

[hollow hollow]

Lets goooo

[supple oar]

If you nerfed magic because of the 20% power up top was not intentional why on earth is necro getting a full uptime 14% equilibrium as well as 7% death skulls buffs at the top. The style is already powerful as well as having crazy aoe, utility and heals, easiest to learn and use. Honestly makes 0 sense to nerf mage. Melee feels right, it was overtuned. But magic has way more skill expression then necro, so should not be pre beta power level while ur buffing necro. This feels like u have 3 mods all fighting for the controls and nobody is agreeing on anything. Ur also about to giga buff range with the ds mobility (which is awesome) i just think nerfing mage was a huge step in the wrong direction. ESPECIALLY when buffing end game necro like it wasnt already the most useable style for most people

[small wadi]

Really confused about the mobile ds being a gigabuff thing, the positioning crap does not matter 99% of the time, it's just a good thing that should have happened 14 years ago. Magic for sure doesn't have any real skill expression over necro, a huge chunk of the effectiveness of magic comes purely from doing crits, which at the endgame has a very high passive chance of happening, that's why you've been nerfed so much when they changed tumeken's and fsoa, any skill expression you think you had paled in comparison to the passive damage they gave you

[hollow hollow]

Melee is still a bad place due to being the easiest with no trade-offs. I do think magic will lose out in damage due to sunshine mobility, an example being even RS Guy surging between pads after skipping the pad mechanic. Range is now more powerful than people might expect, so losing a trade-off might not make sense and cause issues similar to melee. I think magic should be slightly higher in comparison to the other styles but powercreep wise magic is in the right place

[glacial jasper]

the positioning really depends on the boss or pvm you're doing

I still see people scramble around like headless chickens when they don't need to because they don't even realize you don't have to be in the center of it to get the buff, you have like what, 7x7 or 49 tiles?

which to be fair the skill itself kinda poorly communicates with the visual being a circle but still applying at the corners that look like you're out of it

I think it should just be a fleeting boots perk

[mental pollen]

I haven't really mathed / checked it out too deep, but if at all it only feels a little bit worse, don't think it really matters too much considering how strong it was before 👀
At least you still easily get 600-680k suns, without haunt and TA 🤷‍♀️

[mental pollen]

I don't think it's a good idea to balance around headless chickens hehe

[supple oar]

Do sanctum of revirth with range and tell me positioning doesnt matter lol. Also maybe im misreading but are you saying theres no skill expression difference between magic and necro?

[mental pollen]

revirth with range and tell me positioning
Just ds in SW corner and you should have np :>

[glacial jasper]

I was looking forward to theorycrafting what I wanna do with ranged in the last phase, got my first kill the other week, was probably gonna do tele prism shenanigans

[mental pollen]

Why prism instead of just bd

[glacial jasper]

how frequently do the tile vomit aoes happen in between dog portal thing phases?

[mental pollen]

Idk which attack you mean, but wiki has the attack rotation

[glacial jasper]

it just says soulfire waves but doesn't say how many happen or how fast within the mech

[mental pollen]

It says it right above hehe

[glacial jasper]

oh is the floor aoes the 3x heiroglyphs? Does Nakatra reset movement abilities if you avoid tiles in that phase?

[mental pollen]

Yeah, and afaik SW corner is easiest for avoiding most of the heiroglyph patterns

[glacial jasper]

okay so looking at the wiki gif it probably goes here then and you have most of the possibilities covered

[knotty flare]

if you have to dodge the mechanic refreshes your mobility moves anyways so you'd lose virtually nothing to the chance of it covering all of them

[glacial jasper]

yeah but if you can do it without leaving funny buff puddle why not do it without leaving funny buff puddle

[mental pollen]

Iirc could lose a tick depending on how your gcd lines up with with the floor tiles

[mental pollen]

https://img.pvme.io/images/axH6xCZHrX.png
Try to ds on the pink tile, makes it so your ds will hit Nakatra 👍

[glacial jasper]

probably a case where dswift being a square would help to visualize but yeah you could get a line of buff in the tile moving closer than where I circled

[knotty flare]

"virtually". If people are losing it over that little on the occasional really bad rng then it's whatever.

[glacial jasper]

it's 6k damage right? does it stun you too?

[knotty flare]

No, it just pierces and clears most defensive buffs

[glacial jasper]

blubber through the bad pattern it is, then

[mental pollen]

Can also vit pot if you don't use it on obliteration, although most of the time you don't have to tank anything

[glacial jasper]

I think I just reso that unless I'm already good on HP since I don't have divert yet

edit: or disruption actually, I don't have that yet either

[faint sphinx]

It still shouldnt be worse than pre beta, seeing how other styles got bumped up

But lets see, i may be wrong, monday will reveal all i suppose?

[lavish jay]

I compared with My Pre Modernisation Videos on Mahjarrat with 4tick you are indeed weaker now. Magic is generally in an awkward spot AOE and Bleeds are a Joke to beginn with it needs a new basic ability for bleeds if it should ever be a decent alternative or integration spot tbh i think many People forget that neither Range or Melee are on the same power level as Magic and necromancy considering that these are the only two styles that are factually full t95+ so when both of them are currently bad or not over Perform already indicates that all balancing in the Game is dogshit inconsistent.. and People who claim skill expression in the New System you Guys are Pathetic Magic had the highest skill expression with 4tick and swaps in spells People like me asked to not remove that now that it is gone People think there is still Skill expression there are exactly 2 Damage synergies 1 utility and 1 Spell synergie and that is blood and ice you welcome that is all the skill expression that is left in Magic if you were already good before and used your wand/eof´s. It´s gutted and core base simple. Also I doubt seriously doubt anyone does know were this supposed combat update is going because you remove Aura´s boost damage in skills by uping them to 120 then nerf them down because you don´t want power increase? Like what? simplify combat more People access higher numbers and that´s bad? How does it make sense of course there is more power then? Otherwise you could have left 99 and increase base damage by 5% it´s so stupid generally all of it.

Also the biggest Bait in the entire Combat modernisation is to use any corruption ability these are traps now.

but we wanted to remove these type of abilitys but create 2 new ones. smart move. You welcome.

[hollow hollow]

Didn't they buff gchain up again so it's good? I think they buffed bleed wands as well so that you get more adren during bleeds and I've heard people say corrupt shot is pretty good damage

[lavish jay]

it´s literaly worse

[hollow hollow]

Which one?

[lavish jay]

g chain+ wand in general aoe.

[hollow hollow]

I heard they might have buffed essence of corruption and made wands give basics more adren so you are wasting less adren on bleeds

[glacial jasper]

a bit of a text wall but I kinda get where you're coming from and I feel the same way about mobile dswift. It's frustrating to invest a lot of time learning something and have it taken away even if some of the stuff seems small. I wouldn't mind a lower floor if the ceiling didn't start to get collapsed with it

[hollow hollow]

I agree about 4T as well, that was out of nowhere when they could have added it back in some form

[lavish jay]

the adrenaline does not really matter if you build up correctly with perks and relics you are always at 100%. it´s just a meaningless buff the only thing that mattered were the resets.. but it´s awkward now even in aoe where you suppose to be able to force more resets with g chain..

[hollow hollow]

Hmm I didn't think about that, gchain for corruption blast?

[lavish jay]

never use corruption anymore it is an absolute joke 25% adrenaline same damage as it had when it was a basic.

they should change Magma as well it´s as bait as corruption

both are literaly worse than there basic part if you consider they both generated adrenaline and magma does absolutly nothing other than 8-12k dmg cast a wildmage... trust me or a combust..

[hollow hollow]

Hmm so it would take awhile to build adren back up after a double corrupt blast or combust with reset?

[lavish jay]

when combust resets it´s a win every time, it´s just not worth using corruption ever, it is just a bad ability now even if it resets. you dumb 25% adre for nothing. you can rather spend it on Wildmage for more damage or an eof/wand spec. if you have to hold your stacks use it but it´s generally a trash ability now. same for magma. They are as bait as lesser abilities even more bait..

[zealous warren]

Magma is very strong for aoe fwiw

[hollow hollow]

I would be in favor of mage eof and wild magic nerf eventuall except maybe ibans

[lavish jay]

it is useless do you ever use it anywhere? any boss? I don´t.

[zealous warren]

Zuk waves, ed mob packs and aoe slayer from my testing and yapping in pvme

[lavish jay]

yea. sorry i brid either necro or melee for that..

[zealous warren]

No u

[lavish jay]

trust me this ability is bait and has no place in any dmg rotation anymore..

[zealous warren]

For single target definitely yeah I've been sad about that since I sometimes used it as filler and precasting during boss immunity
I read alot of people muscle memorying it at amascut and burnt themselves to death

[hollow hollow]

Precasting sounds kinda worth during fsoa crit buff

[lavish jay]

nope

[zealous warren]

It's just there as an aoe, no crits and no synergy with t95 dw either

[lavish jay]

yes, it does nothing and the dmg is only 8-12k at best it´s bad.

[hollow hollow]

Another issue someone mentioned that it might not be worth using asphyx post-nerf, before having Tumeken's. So that might need looking at

[lavish jay]

It´s a filler without tumeken depends what you use with it.. if you have the crit stick and channelers it can be useful.. otherwise filler still better than corruption and magma lol..

[hollow hollow]

What about asphyx vs spamming Last Command?

[lavish jay]

depends how much hp the target has.

and what you use with it.. like i said without tumeken it is more a filler to either set up so bonus for channeler or squeeze dmg in..

[hollow hollow]

Hmm, I dunno if the crits and damage is worth when could just gconc last command repeat with fsoa

Was non-tumeken asphyx even nerfed btw? I'm not too sure and not sure if I got misinformed

[lavish jay]

the issue is i can´t tell how much dmg asphyx without tumeken does currently because i only pvmed with tumeken.. guessing that i hit 7-8k crits with asphyx 25% reduced in tumeken i would say it can hit like 10k + on all 3 hits when crit.. and it´s channeled and command is 35% and that only 25% and a stun still..but that is not viable here just guess work.. it is just a filler if you can´t cast anything better or want to set up channeler ring otherwise i don´t see it bad or good it´s just 100% better than corruption and magma.

[hollow hollow]

Hmm yeah actually I haven't seen a nerf mentioned anywhere else yeah

[faint sphinx]

U guys may disagree but i thibk the simplest solution to the mage nerf is just undo the fsoa nerf. Tumeken was the problem. With thr less than stellar launch versiom inthink they overbuffed it.

Maybe after this change they can monitor it and see if the 4 piece/5 piece effect need tweaking. But imo it should be fine.

As for maybe buffing mid game mage why not look into cblast/ magma? I think they can do soem exta damage against a single target application (similar to how gflurry was?)

This wont break with fsoa since bleeds cant crit

[lavish jay]

if the power balancing in Rs3 would be correct they should revert both nerfs. because Magic is on full t95+ power and melee and range are not and on top can buff necro even more because realisticly both underperform.

[faint sphinx]

I mean in an ideal world i agree, but my suggestion was the compromise. I just feel that fsoa was kinda in a good spot pre tumeken and its tumeken thats making it seem op.

[lavish jay]

there should be no compromise it´s just nonsense that we have to beg for a bone of the table.. it´s just wild to me honestly i just say it again They have no idea where they want or wanted to go with the Modernisation and it´s obvious..

[hollow hollow]

They mentioned that for all intents and purpose range counts as t95. I think mage needs an adren nerf tbh since it gets too much but personally I prefer Tumeken as a chase drop. I think it should be a little stronger compared to range but melee is just too strong for no reason. I wouldn't buff anything too much though

[lavish jay]

but that is nonsense you can not imagine something higher than it is.. just stupid.. like you don´t imagine 2+2= 77 because i imagined the other 73... like that is literaly insanity..

and when People in Jagex office think like this GG it´s doomed because it is beyond anything..

That´s not balancing then it´s just making shit up.. i hope you get my point..

[mental pollen]

Surely we can bump down others some more, and instead make them more fun to use 🙏

monday will reveal all i suppose
With the current clueless combat jmods you'd be better off asking AI, it's more reliable xd

[lavish jay]

they are clueless wise words.

[mental pollen]

Zuk waves
I haven't done too much mage Zuk recently, but wasn't magma generally used for free ability during down time there? Once mobs are stacked you'd just wanna gchain instead, no?

[zealous warren]

Yeah nowadays you just spam gchain soulfire resets but it's still a neat aoe to do some decent aoe dmg while you deal with another pack

[mental pollen]

Assuming the mobs are somewhat close, wouldn't you just wanna corr blast instead then?
Still baffled at them adding adre cost to both 🤷‍♀️

[small wadi]

The point is so that they're not filler.

[mental pollen]

But instead not worth using hehe

[small wadi]

yes at endgame, boo fucking hoo

[mental pollen]

Ah yes, human communication

[zealous warren]

Magma's like 320% and corrupt is 300% and magma looks cooler

[small wadi]

as much as I want people to keep spreading bull that magma is bad, it's not actually bad, I've seen a lot of people assume it doesnt inherit any boosts but it gets every boost in the game except crits, it's better than combust

[mental pollen]

Corruption gives wand stacks and gets a 30% boost from dw set effect (although wonder if that 30% is on cast or equip, imagine getting your corr to deal all on one)

[mental pollen]

it's better than combust
Maybe you should stop spreading bull? xd inb4 aoe
20% adre ability btw

[small wadi]

again, it's an aoe

but yell harder please, I want it around ~150m or less

[zealous warren]

Doesn't corrupt also have falloff? While magma does its full damage on the targets in the aoe? The wand stacking is a fair point I didn't think about

[mental pollen]

yell
Can you go one sentence without buzzwords 🤣

[small wadi]

calling "yell" a buzzword is so weird

[mental pollen]

Yeah, but ideally you just lose the first hit, and it also gets it damage out a bit faster than magma

[mental pollen]

although wonder if that 30% is on cast or equip, imagine getting your corr to deal all on one)
Okay disaster it's on cast, so you could get all your hits eaten 🤣

[rain needle]

Isn’t melee t70/t100 with vestments it’s a glass cannon set

[small wadi]

t75 defense t115 damage

[rain needle]

Mb but still

[small wadi]

I assume he means melee still using t90 gloves of passage which really is not justification for magic being better, neither is edraco being t92

[rain needle]

Doesn’t melee have a bunch of other synergies though? Like jaws primal armour spikes that spike harness

[mental pollen]

Or wait, looks like even if it procs it still spreads? But idk what would happen if it were to kill the target with the proc

[zealous warren]

Who are you where's the love live image

[mental pollen]

This soiled game doesn't deserve Aqours anymore 😔

[lavish jay]

what is that? Whatever that is that is super not correct.

Magma and corruption are the worst abilities in the Game by far. they are literaly worse then their pre modernisation. Corruption is literaly the same damage as before with added cost magma is 200-400 dmg per tick with 25% added cost to the previous version.

[woeful stream]

care to elaborate on why you think this isnt correct?

[lavish jay]

like what is used what armor what stats? because wm 11k are you hitting with t80?

reap?

[mental pollen]

https://rs-analysis.xyz/magic
Note that dw mage boost bleed damage by 30%

Also it costs 20%

[plain fiber]

I was just about to ask what website that was, thank you 😄

[woeful stream]

I mean wm doesnt hit that hard and that number doesnt matter as its all comparable to each other

[mental pollen]

It's out of sun, no fsoa spec, no sc, and no fsoa passive either since I was showing bleed dmg

You can just go to a dummy and see for yourself how much it hits outside of all the buffs ^^

[lavish jay]

you can not do accurate numbers when you don´t consider everything.. correctly. it´s not working like this.. you go with the buffs in an optimal or semi optimal set up they exist for a reason, you can not determine accurate power scaling otherwise. Magma synergies with nothing combust with 4 things. Boots, gloves, staff, dragon breath runic even when i don´t recommend.. for example..

[woeful stream]

Nothing matters if its perfect optimal gear and rots - should tell all the players nothing matters before end game - but even then this example were based on base kit stuff and bleeds and nothing else

[mental pollen]

when you don´t consider everything.. correctly
Which is what I did, because we were talking about zuk minions and I was showing bleed damage?

[lavish jay]

ah mb sorry didn´t saw that.

[pulsar ether]

Single-target Corruption Blast is better than Wild Magic when wielding the t95 wands, but from your post I'm guessing you're complaining about FSOA/Tumeken's.

[mental pollen]

All good ^^

[lavish jay]

no corruption is bait it is the same ability it was pre and it has now an added cost.. and is in all situations useless. same for magma.

[mental pollen]

Single-target Corruption Blast is better
Nah, if you cast it with fsoa wm is better, gets even better with gconc/sc which you always have on single target

[pulsar ether]

when wielding the t95 wands RS players can't read 🤷

[woeful stream]

But what about tumekens, fsoa, grim, sc, vuln, TA, optimal rots, etc etc etc

[lavish jay]

even then it is still not a good ability.. no matter what you use.. the ability by itself scams you..

[mental pollen]

Okay, even with t95 wands when the target is sc'd, even better if gconc before 😛
But that is assuming no essence corruption, I guess if reset you get the damage of 2x corr blast? Gonna check it rq 👀

[mental pollen]

, I guess if reset you get the damage of 2x corr blast? Gonna check it rq 👀
Looks like the corr blast gets lost if no target nearby, but with nearby target you can get 3rd to 5th hit back on

[flint birch]

Hiya, I don't know where else to ask but does anyone know if the Player Avatar blog is still releasing this week?

[wet forum]

Is there a Recent Update thread for the most recently posted Game Update from the website?

[coral arrow]

about the price increase?

[wet forum]

Indeed, the most recent game update, yes

[coral arrow]

there is not

people have been using #general and #runescape to share their feedback

[faint sphinx]

ive probs asked this before but srsly whats with the complete radio silence. even the blogs ahvent come out, unless they want to release both tomorrow

[scenic pelican]

usually release it in 1 hour 40 from now

But wouldnt be surprised if its that time tomorrow for both

[faint sphinx]

i hope so

[scenic pelican]

They did say on monday that they were releasing them at the end of the week

[coral arrow]

they communicate if blogs are going to be delayed in #game-news

otherwise, just be patient until they get posted

[faint sphinx]

oh cool thx

[lethal kestrel]

Exactly. The regular mods are likely working updates for monday and prep for havenhythe

[wet skiff]

we cant add magic master cape to skillcape rack yet?

[honest lodge]

temporal anomaly needs to be on both spellbooks...

[hallow radish]

Thats what i said however someone said if you do the last elf quest you can swap spellbooks from ancients

I also think 12 mins is fine or you can just use your zuk cape to swap books in between kills if you have magic cape in it

@honest lodge

[faint sphinx]

maybe a combat achievement reward where we can add spells to make a custom spellbook?

[jaunty karma]

Spell books should just need to be a spell book, write the spells into it as you learn them?

[honest lodge]

i'm only referring to aspects which should be more universally available instead

[jaunty karma]

I dont think there should be a special exception for a single spell, but updating the spell book system all together to be more accessible wouldn’t be a bad idea

[stone harbor]

I agree, aspects should be something you can use/unlock for both spell books.

[pulsar ether]

Make SBS work like bone shield where there's no extra input and it consumes extra runes automatically?

[runic wasp]

Especially with more aspects coming to the spellbook,

Since this would basically force more players to ancients which will cause less players to use lunars, i.e. disrupt

[light vector]

Still dont see why at this point we NEED multiple seperate spell books, just make tabs in the existing book and remove the need to switch

Its not like there even a cost involved in the switch, so its not like it even needs to exist, it does nothing but become a nuisance over time

[small wadi]

nty, keep them separate, and add more exclusive spells to each book

[light vector]

Why? What is the point in the being seperate and needing to be switched to?

[small wadi]

if everything is just going to be possible to be used together and stack until the end of time, might as well not make any new spells ever again

[light vector]

Im not understanding what point your making, you would still need to do the relevant quests to unlock those spells, they would just go into their respective tabs in the spell book, my problem is needing to go to a place to switch them, especially when we can already just unlock a single a space to switch them anyway in the form of the priff book or wars retreat unlock, or use the magic cape to do so at a back. It feels redundant

[small wadi]

having them all accessible at the same time in tabs means you have access to all spells at all times, which means any new combat spells immediately obsolete the ones before them unless they stack in which case players get to experience the fun gameplay of stacking even more buffs before a fight or having even more maintenance "use every 1 minute" buffs, which we all know players love (they dont)

and what is this tradeoff for? so you can be less inconvenienced using like two spells?

[light vector]

One of the spell books is like 95% skilling oriented while the other 2 are combat, how would having the ability to just have access to lunar spells all the time really cause that kind of impact?

[small wadi]

it restricts future reward space unless jagex doesn't care and gameplay thematics don't matter at all in the face of big numbers, which is just a worse game experience

[light vector]

Ill have to agree to disagree, cause they could still be added to their respective books and still need the relevant quests or content done to unlock them, so your argument makes no sense to me

[small wadi]

being capable of breathing should not be the end-all-be-all of reward unlocks, there should also be build choices and niches

Still needing to do this or that quest is meaningless, every other player is going to do them any way, so jagex will need to make sure new things don't add too much power because they're all going to be used at the same time, which means boring unlocks

[light vector]

Thats just factually not true, cause once again, i see no reason you could just have lunar spells as an example available at the same time of the ancients or normal spell books, i could see an argument for those 2 with eachother even if i dont agree, but not for lunars
And i know a number of people who simply do not do or like doing quests

[small wadi]

that's just a slippery slope, and the game has never and shouldn't be tailored towards people that just refuse to do quests regardless of rewards lmao

especially in a year when they'll have a plugin that tells them exactly what to do every single step of the way

[light vector]

Im not saying it should, that was never part of my suggestion, like i said, you would still be required to do the relevant quest or content to unlock them

Im just saying its a point of annoyance that doesnt need to exist, cause it already adds an unneeded level of nuisance to an already bloated skill with as many requirements to unlock it all as there is

[onyx mirage]

At this point, I wouldnt want Jagex to gut the spellbook. Who knows what theyd do with it. Im perfectly fine with separate spellbooks and in fact would enjoy variety with more types. Options is what increases replayability of a game, not minnmaxing.

[light vector]

Nothing about that is related to minmaxing so im not sure what your trying to say with that part of your comment

I can see an arguement for the need to swap between normal and ancients, the same as prayers, sure. Honestly my contention is more with lunars specifically i guess

[onyx mirage]

If spells are all condensed into one spellbook, all the spells will be available. People will then cherrypick the best spells from that one spellbook, and minnmax with them. Id prefer that to not be a thing, because not only are options nice, but the sheer amount of spells would require an overhaul to the spellbook system, stealing even more dev time that probably didnt need fixing in the first place. :/ The time spent is not worth the tradeoff. I can also see some spells playing hob with each other and causing a cascade power creep effect, something which would then prompt Jagex to do even more nerfs.

[small wadi]

I can concede a quest that brings only skilling spells together, the vast majority of skillers would rather play an idle game any way let alone having any affinity towards gameplay that gives you choice, so they can have their slop

[hollow hollow]

There's more to it right. Like if you are doing more damage with TA, maybe you shouldn't have access to blood spells for healing or maybe you shouldn't have access to healing your team because you opted for dps. I think there's potential in different spellbooks for different things, so we shouldn't really unify them without a discussion. It could be a choice that is well liked by the community as well, as spellbooks are a nostalgic piece of content

[light vector]

I dont think you understand what minmaxing means, but im not gonna get into a debate about that right now

Either way though, i will give that combining the ancients and normal spell books could have its problems, just like if you were to combine the normal and ancient prayers, so i understand your points on that one

but as far as lunars are concerned, I dont see any real concern with those spells being available side by side with the other 2 spell books, even the combat ones

[hollow hollow]

We could also put disruption shield on a different spellbook if it doesn't fit the theme of what lunars is supposed to be and then maybe move intercept to lunars

[lavish jay]

The entire discussion about the Spellbook is super useless buy 4 rune pouches or the put the runes in your inventory make 2 hotkeys for spellbook swap you have access to all spells if needed make another hotkey for the spells you want to use? Literaly has nothing to do with accessibility or something and doesn´t need a custom spellbook.. and even when they would do it, it literaly wouldn´t change anything, for People that acutally are not to lazy to press a button it´s no change.. and their is also no powercreep you literaly have access to every spell at every time? and if they would do it they should just add an cost to mitigate the spellswap spell.. it´s just laziness nothing else.. You guys are cooking Air here..

[distant depot]

That sounds wildly expensive ^^; I'm not sure how I'm gonna set up my spellbooks 'cause I use surge mostly atm but would also want to vampyrism too

Edit: Actually... how does auto-cast spells work with spell book swap? It might not be too bad if it's just 1 swap to set. I was thinking 1 swap per attack/ability.

[small wadi]

autocast spells cannot be switched to with spellbook swap

[distant depot]

How do magic users use spellbook swap currently? Lunar's is almost entirely non-combat spells.

[knotty flare]

ancient spellbook unlocks its own version of it. So people camp ancients, then spellswap single casts of utility effects on other books

[distant depot]

Aaah okay. That's useful. The standard book should have similar 🙏

[storm plinth]

Coulda been a 120 perk or smth but i don't really see a great reason to camp normals

[distant depot]

I do surge spells 'cause they're way cheaper to use + get good utility from vulnerability. Recently unlocked Ingenuity of the humans so it never misses too.

[light vector]

Theres also temporal anomaly

[knotty flare]

power-wise the only reason to camp normal book outside of a quest gimmick or whatever is crumble undead. Other than that it's price or convenience to use the spells on it. Pretty much anything else can be spellswapped from ancients while still keeping access to ancient spells AND access to spellswapped lunars

[distant depot]

What happens with weaknesses while on ancients? Afaik I've never seen a monster weak to blood or ice etc.

[knotty flare]

They're treated as elements. Smoke Air, Shadow Earth, Blood Fire, Ice Water

[distant depot]

Ah nice. I might look to swap over whenever I feel like doing more RC

[mossy anvil]

Are you an iron?

[light vector]

Theres also the additional rune cost to take into account with ancient spells, all the highest end ones add 2 blood runes to the spell cost, and with these recent changes to make abilities also cost the runes of the active spell, that cost can be a lot to some people

Like a pile of normal elemental runes might be nothing, but if you arent an iron, the gp cost alone makes the spell cost something like 4x more then the normal spell book elemental equivalent. Though to be clear im not saying its not WORTH that cost.

[distant depot]

Nah, not iron but would wanna get a bigger rune pouch before needing more runes, and can't justify spending 500k per thread. Idk Croesus at all and the flake prices are reasonable so don't mind buying that part of it ^^

[small wadi]

endgame irons can just make their runes, you can make tons in a short amount of time

normal players can too if they dont like the hit to their money pouch

[distant depot]

Realistically how many different kinds of runes do you end up with at the extreme end? I'd guess it's something like 2-3 for an offensive spell, 3 for spellbook swap, 2 for vuln, maybe a couple for NPC contact when slayering or vengeance for bosses? Maybe a bit of overlap. Seems like 2 pouches is probably wanted, but idk if will ever need a third. 🤔

[knotty flare]

it's like 3-5 for convenience of not swapping the runes in them, 2 or 3 might cover you actively making those loadout changes

[light vector]

Yea but wasnt that quite literally one of the major complaints people have been having with mage and range after the update costing an insane amount of extra ammo or runes now? It was so aggressive that the most recent update needed to knock the consumption cost down from 20 to 15%
Either way i did say the additional cost was worth it for the versatility of the ancient spells, it just something some people may want to take into account or not worry about

[teal dock]

This week the grievances with magic were that they nerfed the top end of the style by like 40% when it really didn't need that much of a nerf

[small wadi]

it was fine for runes, people were just used to not using any at all; exsanguinate went from 0 gp per hour to use to 200k or so per hour

though, I think the ammo change last week was for ranged ammo only?

[teal dock]

Like if they had left the fsoa alone and just touched the armour I think people would still have been mad but not as mad as I was seeing 6 days ago.

[teal dock]

I habitually use thousands of water runes every hour

not everyone spell switches to save runes, I don't mostly because I cbf because jagex hasn't added a toggle for it to be 1-click switching instead of right click->left click. With the forced auto attack button they had a perfect opportunity to add that.

[teal dock]

^When I say it's not 1-click btw, I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about ability bar 1-click spell swapping. I know full well you can 1-click with the spellbook, but I don't always have my spellbook open since prayers and worn equipment exists and my mouse can only be in so many places at once.

[knotty flare]

ranged ammo, particularly for mid level irons where a lot of the ammo types are super high fletching and from weird sources, was the pain point for ammo consumption. For magic you already had some saving options and runes are mass produced and looted so they were better off

[light vector]

In that regard i do think the re-tiering of fletching ammo should have come before the consumption changes personally

The combat update as a whole felt like it was released into the live game a few weeks to early, it needed more fine tuning, but i also understand that the beta being a functional bubble, its a lot easier to get a proper data set from releasing it into the live game and seeing how the player base as a whole handles the changes, so i wouldnt exactly fault them, and am interested to see what further tweaks they make
Though im trying to avoid interacting with them as a whole till they finally figure out where they wanna land with everything

[distant depot]

Yeah they did mention that in some post that those who engaged with the beta were the hardcore players who wouldn't have had more casual player problems like worrying about ammo prices esp. since the beta supplied those for free.

If the beta population isn't representative of the general player base, there's going to be a disconnect no matter how long it runs for so idk if a couple more weeks would have really added much more value.

[hollow hollow]

Apparently storm shards give a bloodlust stack too, that's kinda cool

[light quiver]

Smoke Cloud Off gcd pls

[light quiver]

I have 4 lol

[jaunty karma]

Also melee enthusiasts don’t generally run into ammunition problems and melee was really hyped in the beta

[polar forum]

Mele has armour spikes and lots of weapon swaps mainly

[jaunty karma]

Thats more of a min max thing in the late game, just starting out in the early mid game melee is just grab a weapon and kill stuff. armor spikes and such don’t factor in till later, whereas magic and range need ammo the entire time

[knotty flare]

Ranged was pretty much the one style to get put in a bad spot. Its ammo production levels and rates are unfriendly to the player starting very early on and in mid game unless severely overleveling fletching or getting charge does, compared to magic getting a ton of RC qol and being able to go through most of the game on elemental spells or even just air spells, which store runs can mostly cover or easily mass produce airs at even mediocre levels. At the high end there was already rune consumption so the changes mostly broke even there and you can still loot/craft those quickly at high levels too. These changes just bumped up the priority on looking at standard ammo production and availability

[wild spear]

There should be an update today right?

[small wadi]

yes, dailyscape nuke and free runemetrics

and the last big wave of combat changes

[plain fiber]

Update should be in 4~ hours. Give or take a half hour.

[wild spear]

ni ce

[teal dock]

Hope one of those changes is an unnerf to what they did to magic last week.

[amber pawn]

Sick profile pic

[wild spear]

ty

[sharp rose]

Make ed3 trash runs good xp again for combat training pls