The Early-Game Rebalance Now Live!

[cunning basalt]

Heyo Scapers,

Our weekly update is now live - https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-early-game-rebalance-now-live
 
Alongside this update we have released a stand alone list of patch notes for the rebalance, check them out here - https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/patch-notes-early-game-rebalance

[slim sphinx]

Fire emoji

[fading patrol]

Hyped to try out some of these changes - thanks team 🫶

[cinder heath]

Early-game Agility has a few problems right out of the gate: low-level courses feel slow to train, shortcuts don’t really feel worth using anymore, and Silverhawk boots let players skip most of the core training experience.

What if we make silverhawk boots through Invention and use actually feathers (like a sink) and only make the xp from boots work during actually training agility?

[neon rock]

Cheeky monkey ded.

[cinder heath]

Maybe gnome stronghold could be lvl 5 or 10 and more xp than burthorpe? Many players will skip gnome course I believe, Burthorpe is easier to access. 😮

[reef axle]

Very fair observation. Especially with it being less XP/lap now it's total dead content

[chrome perch]

Love the broken thieves guild doors, didn't want to raise thieving anyway... xD

[cinder heath]

Nice

[cunning basalt]

Did you open the same door twice in a row or did ya do Door -> Chest -> Door?

[cinder heath]

pp timer, great one!

[chrome perch]

Nope can't open a door at all

[vague garnet]

Love the shoutout to mod answers

Good way to make sure people can see stuff they might've missed

[worldly echo]

ITS A BAR FIGHT!!

[cinder heath]

great solid update

[cunning basalt]

Can ya grab a short clip? will pass it along to the devs

[boreal crag]

Not a fan of the 2min "afk" thieving

[sharp turtle]

are there any more blogs dropping this week/today?

[chrome perch]

Will try to, I don't have a software for that, will see what I can find.

[cinder heath]

Cool

[cinder heath]

aura today I believe

[elder gazelle]

the changes to high level pickpocketing feel a bit heavyhanded

[chrome perch]

In the chat box it just continuously says nothing interesting happens, and nothing happens on any door.

[sharp turtle]

i disagree

afk thieving was busted before

[worldly echo]

🤯

[inner arrow]

Menaphos market guards definitely were OP asf

[elder gazelle]

i don't deny that,but this feels a bit harsh,im barely thieving for 2 minutes before being caught,while running full bis with every boost available

[sharp turtle]

if i wanted to get those clues before the 120 update, i would have to go to abyss lords for 400 hours

• use bik

it was a nice change, it felt like an actual reward for reaching 120 and being a master thief, but it was broken by all accounts

[ocean kraken]

which NPC(s) are you pickpocketing?

[sharp turtle]

hope they consider baking the legendary thieving aura into the skill somehow

[untold sierra]

they are

you can see in the blog the mod post about auras

[elder gazelle]

wizards tower master mages,the vyres,menaphos guards,the higher level stuff

[elder gazelle]

yeah cus rn i do not feel like a master thief at all

[untold sierra]

right now it's looking like it'll probably go to either a Thieves Guild unlock or the Aura Totem

[sharp turtle]

id be down for more unlocks through gameplay

[sharp turtle]

also, 680 hours of pickpocketing for that. hope i get enough for a blue phat.

[bold summit]

If you do them all i'm sure you'll be able to get one

[fickle sundial]

Thank you for the updates. I am especially glad you listened to feedback and made tweaks where needed.

That said, I'm still really not okay with reverting Cook's Assistant to pre-2009 version. Like... not okay at all. I find it serious backtracking, giving the players option to bypass gameplay which is opposite to integrity in my eyes, and turning CA into "fetch X items" quest instead of a quest that encourages interaction with environment. I'm honestly disappointed you went through with this. Please don't do the same thing to Imp Catcher.

[rotund ivy]

the new thing with degrading success chance for pickpocketing i half to say is quite bad and im not a fan at all

[umbral oasis]

In exchange higher base pick rates?

[distant harbor]

One early game rebalancing I'd like to have in game, that I haven't seen here is for low level cooked fish to heal appropriate amounts again. Right now fish below lobster tier heals reduced amounts vs what they healed before EOC, and it makes early game fishing/cooking progression less satisfying.

Like currently herring heals the same as shrimp (200), despite it originally healing 5, meaning it should heal 500. Herring, cod etc should have their original healing amounts restored IMO, because it makes levelling fishing & cooking more rewarding

[cunning basalt]

Cheers, will pass along

[rotund ivy]

thoses are fine but the degrading sucess chance is very bad though

[sharp turtle]

they lowered the rates for higher levels. im now failing menaphos guards with a magpie and the vitur ring at 120. was caught within 1 minute.

[umbral oasis]

Just reclick every 2-3 minutes? Supposedly. Anything that would make you avoid a stun resets your success rate so I'm assuming there could be something to be used there. Camouflage outfit, yes. Cheeky monkey is gone. Gloves of silence in the bank.

Lemme run it right now and check

[rotund ivy]

cheeky monkey ? i've never used that im still trying to get 99 theving and i was enjoying it as the pick pocketing was super chill game play but now the chill pick pocketing training methiod is trying to make it a lot less chill as the hiests are supose to be the ultra high activeness theving training and pick pocketing was supose to be the ultra chill afk training

[elder gazelle]

15minute afk is overkill i get that but if i'm fully decked out 2minutes of thieving feels like a kick in the nuts

[devout junco]

not happy about thieving holy god this sucks

[thorny cipher]

Yeah thieving sucks @ high level now

[umbral oasis]

With ring+mask alone I got 2 minutes at vyres without getting caught. Assuming the xp rate is about the same, that's not bad. Could get 4 minutes if camo outfit procc'd

[desert fossil]

why did crystal mask catch a stray 40% nerf at the same time as the pickpocket changes

[devout junco]

this is nerfed to hard wtf

[bold summit]

Because it alone was better then all other buffs combined

[cunning basalt]

Whats your rsn btw?

[untold sierra]

because Cmask+Lightform made every other upgrade irrelevant?

[modern jacinth]

Oblivious perk isn't working

[elder gazelle]

thats weird cus i had every available buff at lower level npcs and only hit 2minutes max

[umbral oasis]

It was changed. Read patch notes.

[desert fossil]

yeah but apparently every other upgrade is now barely relevant as well considering i can get caught by a lvl 78 archaeologist within 2 minutes with full buffs and gear

[devout junco]

Somethings got to change with thieving. This was too much.

[untold sierra]

like seriously, it was funny to me, going through pick pocketing calculators, stacking everything up, getting to 70%ish at best, throw on just Cmask+Light Form and hit 100% on basically everything

[umbral oasis]

I think it's designed to be 2-3 min max on general.

[untold sierra]

has anyone tried Priff Elves Waiko Marketeers?

[chrome perch]

Low IQ Art

[elder gazelle]

yeah it feels that way,not a fan of that,pickpocketing feels awful

[devout junco]

pickpocketings dead for sure at this point.

[modern jacinth]

Starbloom seeds removed from master farmers?

[umbral oasis]

1.5 min at arch profs without Crystal mask. 2 min with mask.

[elder gazelle]

bit of a pet peeve maybe but ham members are dead as a way to gather easy clues,the amount of items added to their droptable makes it unbearably intensive for a low level method,have to empty your inventory every 40 seconds

[devout junco]

thats ridiculous

[umbral oasis]

For the xp rates though?

[strong sonnet]

I mean, just use oblivious perk and go to a busy world with ice asylums out, you’ll out heal the damage and you can be afk once more

[devout junco]

oblivious no longer works dude

[umbral oasis]

Dude read the patch notes.

[strong sonnet]

Oh damn, I was under the impression that was staying

[elder gazelle]

lmao that's most certainly not how this works

[devout junco]

Man I really think they fumbled thieving. Yikes.

[umbral oasis]

Crystal mask + Light Form I still got 1.8 - 2.2 min at arch profs.
Glad I hit 200m before this update.

[devout junco]

Oblivious getting changed is really whats screwed this completely. :\

[umbral oasis]

100%

[boreal crag]

Imo so far Road to restoration has been a fumble

[umbral sandal]

3 min menaphos thiev lvl 120 aura+bis gear

[devout junco]

oof

[umbral sandal]

+crystal Mask light form

[sharp turtle]

because you can no longer afk thieving for 15 minutes straight?

[boreal crag]

No because noone of the shit so far has been done well

[umbral sandal]

15 min is to op time of crystal Mask 5min isn't xd

[sharp turtle]

wheres a fair middleground for thieving? should the 120 cape let us never get caught, like the 99 cooking cape does? is that fair?

[sharp turtle]

i will take 5 minutes without the mask please. i hate crystal mask so much.

[boreal crag]

You are so right

make thieving a 1½% success rate at 120

[umbral sandal]

@sharp turtle time of crystal Mask if max gear you deserve 5 min lol

[elder gazelle]

let's get to 5 minutes even with the mask first yeah

[umbral sandal]

@sharp turtle but its in between xd

[languid iron]

so are we getting refunds for our premier tokens that were just used for the cheeky monkey. its useless now

[sly python]

I'm glad they're discussing it, thanks for posting

[desert fossil]

i'm not really against the lower afk times, but introducing a decaying success chance to counteract guaranteed thieving caused by stacking buffs and then reducing the total achieveable buff in the same patch is really poorly thought out, if one of them is too oppressive just redistribute it to other sources

[sharp turtle]

it also goes against the game logic that other games like anything from the elder scrolls would use for thieving success rates. higher skill = better thief.

imo its hard to balance in an mmo since no one else really does what rs does with skills

[sly python]

I'm okay getting less XP or gp in return of longer afk timers. Most people afk thieving for the items, not the XP/GP

[main nacelle]

nah, at 120 with full camo & mushroomy bag w/ oblivious (atm useless perk), light form, mask + the aura (which will be removed) should not yield in only 2 minutes of pickpocketing...

[vague garnet]

Perhaps the falador altar could also have a slightly boosted xp bonus after some tasks, it being some distance from a bank would keep it from being too strong

[untold sierra]

mmmmmm... I decided to go try out priff elves, on the one hand, I got my first strike faster than normal, on the other hand, I don't immediately get strikes 2 and 3 right after

on the other hand... it does mean priff elves is probably not actually five minutes afk at once

I'll see after strike three happens what it looks like when I get my first strike at another clan

[elder gazelle]

i'm glad i'm not the only one feeling this way

[true sluice]

Art, you say? 👀

[neon rock]

Double healing on bananas though 🍌

[untold sierra]

ok, priff elves are also about two minutes to first strike

so they aren't actually more chill... I'm kinda wondering if they forgot to let success chance overcap?

[bitter salmon]

very glad i got 200m thieving - but also it's kinda nuts that i was able to get from level 99 to 200m thieving from the 120 thieving update. things were dialed way too high but this is an over-correction imo

[sharp turtle]

i dont usually go for 200m in skills but i have 200m in thieving now. it was insane xp for little effort.

[untold sierra]

mmmmm, actually getting strikes seperated out instead of getting 1 2 3 basically instantly does mean I actually get to just do the four good drop tables and never have to touch any table I don't wanna

[potent river]

Anyone else not a fan of them sneaking in massive nerfs like oblivious in last minute with no discussion?

[thorn narwhal]

Really disappointed with the Cook's Assistant change. Takes away a good introduction to actual questing (instead of just prepping 3 items and handing them in straight away)

[sharp turtle]

i propose a new relic, call it E for Everyone. when youre stunned or interrupted, theres a 35% chance you instead hit the npc, stunning them for 5 seconds.

[vital oar]

Thieving (pickpocket) changes are dog. Think about it again. If xp was the problem, cut xp, not the afk gameplay...

[potent river]

Like why even bother to discuss the updates or even tell players anything when youre going to massively nerf something you didn't bring up at all?

[sharp turtle]

theyre looking into it. remember, we are technically the qa team.

[potent river]

Maybe they wouldn't have to look into things if they didn't intentionally conceal massive nerfs?

[sharp turtle]

they overnerf things then respond to player feedback after the update drops

[fickle sundial]

Same. It's something I just cannot side behind as I feel it's backtracking on every level. And I'm sure the only reason they changed is because players complained during Leagues (a.k.a not paying attention to either quest dialogue or quest interface).

[sharp turtle]

what was changed about cooks assistant?

[desert fossil]

can now use generic items instead of the quest specific ones

[sharp turtle]

i havent done that quest since 2005 so idk how it changed since then

[neon rock]

Quest specific items changed to generic items (e.g. special large egg to just a regular egg)

[chrome perch]

Yes...?

[potent river]

Yeah tbh I don't care about the quest change. I am just extremely annoyed they decided they wanted to gut pickpocketing.

[sharp turtle]

isnt that a good thing? new players are invited to explore the world right from tutorial island

[potent river]

Honestly I wish I could go back in the other threads and point to all the ppl who said "oh well theyre not going to gut pickpocketing" and say here ya go. Look what the devs did

[true sluice]

Do you make art?

[fickle sundial]

Cook's Assistant was remade in 2009 exactly because they didn't want the quest to be complete-able by just having the three items in inventory. The new version existed twice as long as the old one

[sharp turtle]

do you have the current world record for speedrunning the 2009 version of cooks assistant?

[desert fossil]

is a new player actually just gonna roll up to the cook with all 3 items in their inventory

[devout junco]

LOL

[fickle sundial]

Depends. If they immediately look online guide... or if new quest interface directly says it requires the three ingredients in "items" section.

[true sluice]

Yes, because the quest interface tells you what you need to bring with you before the quest even begins

[fickle sundial]

I wouldn't say it's such small possibility

[neon rock]

But do new players even look at that from the get go?

[desert fossil]

yeah the people i've introduced to the game barely looked at interfaces

[chrome perch]

Nah the CGIM group I joined required me to have Low IQ at the start and Art is just a shortened form of my name.

[bold sinew]

master farmers and every other lower level mob are now amazing, thieving changes are op for those

[true sluice]

Aah, I see!

[fickle sundial]

The thing is... it was reverted likely ONLY because of old players.

[sharp turtle]

so we get worse the higher our skill level is?

[bold sinew]

idk, I havent tested high level stuff on my leve l52 chunker

[sharp turtle]

the goal of the roadmap is to bring as many players to rs3 as osrs has...

[fickle sundial]

If they do the same to Imp Catcher, I'll be seriously pissed.

[void hollow]

No but it adds familiarity for osrs players returning to the game from the beginning. I’ve seen it turn them off just for being different

[main nacelle]

Then they should introduce polls as osrs does. Randomly deciding that "hey, we'll do this", then ignoring the "please don't" from the playerbase isn't healthy for the playercounts.

[neon rock]

I don't see imp catcher changing because you can just buy the 4 beads from the herblore shop.

[sharp turtle]

cant do polls right now. this is integrity update time. jagex has the same stance for osrs polls.

[untold sierra]

I don't see imp catcher changing because old imp catcher SUCKED

[true sluice]

Yeah, the quest changes... I'm sorry, but that really sucks. You've just made the game worse, in this case?
"Why can't I use this egg?" "Why does it have to be black wool?" Because the Chef said he needs a special egg for a special cake and Fred said he needs black wool?? This is a quest, were you paying attention?

[untold sierra]

how many other quests ask you to go get "specific version of common item"?

[fickle sundial]

I hope so. But it's also quest of same name that was firmly reworked and was able to be completed with 4 items in inventory. I imagine it could also "confuse" old-new players

[untold sierra]

IME it's either a generic item or a fully custom, only exists for the quest item

[sharp turtle]

dragon slayer makes you get the head of a named green dragon instead of any green dragon from the wilderness

[true sluice]

Like, for example, a special super large egg?

[hazy night]

Game is becoming more like OSRS by the day

[sharp turtle]

oh no, osrs is successful. cant have that here, can we?

[fickle sundial]

Druidic Ritual and Wolf Whistle were both remade in same manner as CA was in 2009. Removing generic items and demanding specific.

[bitter delta]

buff bar still states buff as being 10%

[west arch]

Princess and the Pauper asks you to get 'juicy redberries' specifically.

[vivid badge]

I welcome the nerf to pickpocketing. But current nerf feels bit too far. All Bis thieving boosts should get us close to 5 mins. With no boosts 1-2 mins without getting caught is fine.

[misty grail]

The Draynor Seed should no longer flicker to its older model when successfully stealing from it.

[true sluice]

For when you're growing Draynor

[misty grail]

for when Draynor wants to create smaller Draynors with its partner

[true sluice]

Count Draynor, what are you doing...?

[ocean kraken]

Runescape now has a Dark Bramble
Draynor is Timber Heart

[misty grail]

help me step-town, I'm stuck

[sharp turtle]

accidently bought that game because i was looking for outer worlds. best mistake ever made.

[potent river]

Oh boy, I cannot wait for the mid game and end game INTEGRITY updates

If pickpocketing/thieving changes are the poster child for their game direction then clearly this game isnt for me anymore.

[tulip quartz]

Pickpocketing was OP and I'm glad they nerfed the afkness rather than the xp and loot

[untold sierra]

btw, you can swap elf every 60-90 seconds and pickpocket the same clan forever now

[bold summit]

Just wait untill they hit the mid/late game

[potent river]

"integrity this integrity that, we've now decided you can no longer afk any skill and must complete a mandatory captcha to continue playing"

[untold sierra]

but you do get strikes every 2-3 mins so it's not more pure afk than other methods

[tulip quartz]

Your name really suits you

[neon rock]

I know there's a RS knock-off game that actually prompts captchas from time to time. If you fail too many in a row, your account is banned.

[remote mauve]

I'm sorry jagex, as a veteran 20y played. You are not keeping players with that kind of "integrity" updates. Late game buffs should have a meaning.

[sharp turtle]

weird, osrs does a great job and they dont have afk thieving

[remote mauve]

this aint osrs innit?

[warm cobalt]

If we stick with this style of thieving, we may need targets to swap between. Looking at archeology professors.

[west arch]

Neat. I would've liked that when I was making Seren's symbol. Also the strikes being more separated. The second and third strike immediately after the first always seemed pointless. I only continued pickpocketing to trigger the timer.

[brave kettle]

you do know the game we play isnt osrs, right? like theres a reason many of us don't stop playing rs3 and go to osrs. also osrs thieving doesnt go to 120

[sharp turtle]

thats actually a great idea. id be down for that.

[sharp turtle]

wasnt aware that you unlocked afk thieving at 100 thieving. my mistake.

[untold sierra]

at low levels the change has actively made it MORE afk

seriously, at lvl 1 you effectively have 85% success chance at pickpocketing

[brave kettle]

level 120 is the same as getting 8 99's in OSRS, so pardon me if people want their 5 minutes of afk. again, this isn't OSRS so I don't understand why you are comparing it.

[scarlet vine]

I think character not responding to clicks during pickpocket needs to be looked at.

[sharp turtle]

200m thieving in rs3 takes far less time than 99 in osrs does. why are you comparing them?

[wicked plinth]

Cook's assistant and sheep shearer were not confusing at all... these quests have been like this for years with clear quest guides and minimap boxes. This is just a downgrade to cater to osrs players

[brave kettle]

whats your point?

[sharp turtle]

they want newer players to have an easier introduction to the game, stop blaming osrs for everything you dont like lol

honestly cant think of anything that affects me less than the changes to the first quest in the game

[bold summit]

Early game fixes will bring some small issues for mid / lategame. We'll jsut have to hope they can minimize the amount of problems untill they get around to the rest of the rebalances

[wicked plinth]

Well they're talking about breaking expectations for returning players so osrs is a large part of that base

[untold sierra]

is it? or is it a bunch of people who left when SoF/TH happened, or EoC, and then never went to OSRS?

or is it people who've left since, who might come back with the changes(Hi)

[sharp turtle]

im sure jagex has the data to show that new players who do cooks assistant end up grabbing the wrong egg or wool, then quit the game before they complete the quest

its not like these changes are blind shots in the dark

[wicked plinth]

Yes since th and eoc came years after they changed these quests. Players who left because of this should not 'have their expectations broken'

[fickle sundial]

CA was in fact changed years before EOC

[indigo wind]

No, that’s the [[QA]] team

[north hemlock]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Quality_Assurance_Team

[hybrid viper]

You guys are very upset over the idea of having to actually interact with the game

[fickle sundial]

In 2009... which means it existed in updated form for twice as long as original.

I think the only time players complained was during Leagues.

[teal quiver]

Why not run it like the vault of shadows mystery where you can substitute items to complete the quest initially, but come back with the proper items (black wool / special ingredients) for a full reward

[sharp turtle]

unless you tried osrs out, then its existed for much longer than this version

[teal quiver]

People coming back that might grab the wrong variant can still complete the quest, but could double back afterwards for an additional set of xp, or at least enough to fill out what would be the reward as it is now

[fickle sundial]

OSRS is not RS though. It's a separate game which existed from 2013 onwards.

[indigo wind]

RFD, e.g. with the ape atoll section

[sharp turtle]

its the main way that jagex gets people into rs atm

[indigo wind]

Also FTP3, at least with the mango (though tbf I think that predates regular mangos)

[remote mauve]

wonderful! then let's fuse these 2 together 😂

[vital meteor]

Sorry but clicking an NPC every 2 minutes at 120 thieving and bis gear is neither fun, nor shows respect for our time. A nerf was needed, but this is way overdoing it.

[lyric sage]

Early Game Rebalance

Look inside

Late game thieving killed

[vital meteor]

Exactly!

[indigo wind]

(Same as 8 99s in RS as well)

[wispy wren]

yeah having to actively play a video game surely sucks..

[remote mauve]

then let's change fishing next

[indigo wind]

Eh, wouldn’t make sense in the same way - he’s already made the mediocre cake and served it. From an in-world perspective the loaned scrolls aren’t a different item than the ones you excavate.

[sharp turtle]

the return of the king

[remote mauve]

you cast ur net/rod...wait for splash, click again to catch fish. perfect!

[brazen ether]

anything requiring Crystal Mask to reach 100% was never 15 minutes afk anyway, so none of those pickpockets should've been touched 🤷🏼‍♂️

[untold sierra]

they were touching the basic way pickpocketing functions, they were touching everything anyway

[brave kettle]

all fishing methods shall be removed EXCEPT for fishing frenzy, because AFK is not allowed and you must click. click for your lives.

you won't be respected unless you click every 1 second on those fish

[misty grail]

I will argue that afking on osrs isn't really a common practice, but rs3 isn't osrs. a lot of rs3 has a lot of afk and that's not a bad thing, it's how it's implemented that's important. I believe low effort afk methods should be ok, just not as fast or profitable while active methods are much faster and more profitable

[sharp turtle]

yes it is lol

[vital meteor]

This would have been a way better approach

[indigo wind]

@cunning basalt Something weird in the Hunter table ^

[sharp turtle]

osrs has figured out how to balance skills between afk, semi afk, and full spectrum. rs3 can do the same thing but needs to approach it in a different way so they arent copying osrs
https://youtu.be/83RHOq-z9Uc?t=359

[scarlet vine]

I can now steal porters as much as I want from amlodd thieves which wasnt possible at 96 thieving before.

[tawny dagger]

if you mean the xp/h approx change being negative, it's because stacking scarabs only gives 25% xp per scarab now.
So instead of 100% xp for scarab 1 and +500% for stacking 5 extra scarabs.
It's now 100% xp for scarab 1 and +125% for stacking 5 extra scarabs.

[indigo wind]

That’s what I thought at first, but no

[remote mauve]

Are you really that cooked in the head? RuneScape isn't osrs 😂

[sharp turtle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/dj-khaled-suffering-from-success

[indigo wind]

The table says it was changed from 95 to 90, and describes that as +5%

[tawny dagger]

oh, lol

[misty grail]

making both games more and more similar isn't a good idea, they're different games for a reason. I believe rs3 should head in its own direction and they should not just mimic each other

[scarlet vine]

OSRS thieving is the worst skill in both of these games combined, anyways I don't think pickpocketing is done for XP if people at 120 are still pickpocketing, it means there is too much loot for AFKing the skill.

[sharp turtle]

rcing and agility are worse

[misty grail]

vyrelords are just not afkable anymore and that makes me sad, but I understand, but I'd still like something to be afkable in the thieving space, even if it's a lower level npc

less profitable, but still afk profit, even if it's 500k/hr. I have a lot of spare time in my life and I don't want to always do the most active stuff

[astral adder]

with lv 70-80 mobs, even with aura + all bis, im getting stunned within 20-30sec at 120 thief. wonder if the 3-4x loot strips your initial buffs faster...

[tawny dagger]

I just realized something.
Is sticky fingers now worse xp/hour than not using it?

[sly python]

Idk if I'm right, but I think they made the entire thieving not afk-able anymore as no matter what level you have, the chance of getting caught increases. So even with bis gear and all boosts, you end up failing level 1 thieving stuff (I think)

[brave kettle]

why should someone at 200m thieving fail beginner level thieving though

[untold sierra]

that's weird, I just got 160k xp at Meilyr just swapping between elves every 60-90 seconds, and I'm not 120 thieving and I wasn't using aura

[left turret]

Because afk bad

[bold summit]

Probably unintended untested consequences of the early game getting better 🙂

[lyric sage]

whats with some rs3 players being so hostile towards people wanting afk to be viable like wasnt the whole goal for both afk and active to be both good (active being better of course)

[brave kettle]

its really quite strange imo. idk why they care so much that people want 5 minutes of afk

[potent river]

If the early game rebalance is filled with this level of nerfing the game then the mid and end game rebalance is probably much worse.

[misty grail]

it doesn't need to be good or powerful, I don't care if it takes me 20+ hours of thieving to get an onyx from tzhaar or a ring from vyres, just let me afk, or get it closer to 5 hours if I'm actively trying to thieve

[strong sonnet]

I mean afk itself is fine, afk 2m exp/h and decent money isn’t really something that encourages gameplay

[misty grail]

agreed

[astral adder]

many people were proposing nerfing xp rates by a lot, and loot as well, but keep afk. of course feedback isnt usually taken

[potent river]

Most ppl would prefer an xp/gp nerf than removing afk

[bold summit]

mid / late is when they'll fix these kind of issues like thieving that earlygame fixes create. ( if the smaller fixes before then don't make it better )

[potent river]

Removing afk from this game will kill it. All the tourists that they're bringing into the game will get bored.

[strong sonnet]

I was thinking they’d leave oblivious in the game and just allow the 70-80’s npcs to be fully afk still at the higher levels

[scarlet vine]

I agree somewhat, I dont think afking should be removed but the new changes make low level thieving better. Sticky fingers was already nerfed so pickpocketing is bad training method anyways. I think the problem could be remedied by just reducing the loot you get from pickpocketing and still allowing afk

[potent river]

Imagine leaving out one of the largest nerfs so they could sneak it in at the end.

[bold summit]

Lucky us. They won't remove afk

[fickle sundial]

They seem to be still looking into thieving update as per words of Mod Yuey on Reddit.

[astral adder]

the oblivious removal was really bad

[potent river]

I mean they pretty much did remove afk from theiving today. So I don't exactly have a large amount of confidence in the dev team

[bold summit]

Removing / reducing is a huge difference.

[slim sphinx]

I do think 2m afk is a bit too drastic of a nerf

[orchid dust]

@cunning basalt I think theres a typo in the agility table, the burthrope course says +75% in this blog, but the last one said 63%. I did quick maths and I think 63% was the correct number

[potent river]

15mins to 1-2 mins at best is borderline removing. But sure be pedantic if it makes you feel better

Edit: on top of gutting oblivious with no discussion

[astral adder]

the new reworked oblivious is worthless, it wears out within 2-3 seconds then it does nothing... also defeats the entier purpose of it

[oak sapphire]

Those changes suck. 2min is not afk at all.

[slim sphinx]

5 mins is a decent sweet spot imo, 15 min afk is a bit too much

[cunning basalt]

having a look

[gray forge]

I cannot believe they're like "haha no polling for you, now THAT would make it OSRS ;)"

So many bad changes..

[tulip quartz]

The bis gear should allow you to have more successful pickpockets. Not pickpocket for 15 minute straight

[bold summit]

🤷‍♂️ rs3 has it's own way of gathering feedback on updates. We don't need to do it exactly as osrs does. There's already to many people complaining that the game are to similar

[sharp turtle]

take a shot of whiskey every time someone blames osrs

[cunning basalt]

yeah the 90 should be 100 in the gliding column

[strong sonnet]

I personally think 2 mins is quite generous for the rates we’re getting, but low level afk stuff would ideally still exist for those looking for 15 minutes

[crimson iris]

returning to this game was a mistake 🙁

[limber coral]

Pickpocketing being 15 min afk and 500k xp/hr was insane. One of those things had to go lmao

[gray forge]

@bold summit ah yes the classic feedback method of letting players rant on reddit and discord because it doesn't matter if they do, we're doing what we're doing

Hurrah. So effective. I've certainly never seen that method backfire a dozen times over the past twenty years.

[last patio]

I genuinely don’t understand why RS3 is removing AFK time from skills. Why touch late game "rewards", with early game updates? We worked hard for these item upgrades and quest rewards that made this AFK time possible. Why nerf it? Why not put on a poll and listen to your community that has been here for years, even when you made mistake after mistake.

I don’t play this game to grind hundreds of hours clicking every 30 seconds. When I actually have time to play, I boss, quest, or go for achievements. When I’m working or busy with real life, that’s when I AFK skills. That flexibility is literally one of the biggest reasons I play RS3.

Now with Thieving, I have to check the screen every 30–60 seconds. That completely kills the low-attention training style RS3 has supported for years.

Jagex, Why not handle it like Mining or Woodcutting? Make optimal XP come from actively switching targets every few seconds, but let AFK players stay on one target for lower XP per hour. Reward active play without punishing AFK players.

There’s a reason I log into RS3 instead of OSRS. It’s the quality of life and the ability to AFK alongside a busy schedule. If you remove that, you’re removing one of RS3’s core identities.

The same with safe cracking. If you remove the AFk time with picketpocketing. Why not change the safe cracking spawn times back to what they were?

Focus on content first that is dead and should be removed instead of nerfing parts of the game that is good for players.

[sharp turtle]

i agree, this is busted

[analog compass]

Before anyone cries and doesn't give legitimate feedback further has anyone tried priff elves yet? I saw in the blog post they're supposed to be more afkable?

[small topaz]

I am totally happy with them making the thieving changes, but I think they need to have a progress bar of sorts, or even just a status effect that shows your pickpocketing success rate dropping overtime. Just having a visual indicator of when your bar goes from 100% (Or greater) ((Thinking Full Green Bar)) to a decaying Blue bar (showing the current decrementing success chance) would be amazing.

[scarlet vine]

You can now do elves without getting caught ever at lower levels by changing targets every 30-90 seconds

[untold sierra]

it's not really MORE afk than other options except specifically on level

[analog compass]

Sounds good, I'll have to try higher levels tonight when I'm off work - on feedback however, they could make the changes to decay by 1% at every 3-5 pickpockets rather than 1, that could boost up the average to 3-5 minutes rather than 2

[cunning basalt]

Yeah I didnt update the math in the tables the 75% is right the new approx is 13,363.2 instead of 12,480, will update the newspost

[untold sierra]

but it is nice to be able to just spend an hour pickpocketing meilyr for more dragon scale dust or amlodd for some porters

[kindred sand]

I'd love to know what the thinking behind the hunter nerfs were. Now I haven't trained hunter in years but when I do, for how active whirligigs seems to be, the xp rates seem pretty fair at the higher levels. A 60% nerf seems way too high for the highest tier available.

[shy bay]

I tried the priff elves at 120, with the full camo outfit and got about 5 minutes of thieving there (similar to before), but now you get it in 3 2:00-2:30 attempts, and not 1 5:00 attempt and 2 instant catches.

[wanton nebula]

Maybe no one has made a new account for a while, but early early thieving was atrocious. I remember pickpocketing lv 2 men at lv 30+ and still failing constantly. I am glad to see these changes that were targeted for early game.

[orchid dust]

Can I also take a moment to say it feels pretty bad that even the 13.3k figure is 9k xp/h less than the Nature's grotto bridge crossing was?
If agility needed a boost early game (and it really did), I didnt really expect it to get worse than it was before

[desert fossil]

iirc the original blogpost said they want players to diversify their levelling methods and whirlgigs were like THE 1-99 method for levelling hunter because of how high the exp could go, especially with stacking high level whirlgigs on a plain one

[strong sonnet]

They were pretty much the best method for all level ranges with some tick manipulating stuff being close or slightly better for certain levels.

[cunning basalt]

Well now as a new character you can just jog over to Burthrope and get a couple of laps in without having to worry about making your way to Morytania

[final ember]

Glad we’re having these changes. AFK being a predominant gameplay style was not healthy

[lyric sage]

now its not a style at all

[cyan hedge]

afk has been a core part of the game for awhile, afk didnt need removed, the xp and rewards needed adjusted

[orchid dust]

Yeah that does make sense, and it's probably a good overall change!
in slight irony, the next course at lvl 25 is in morytania anyways, but I suppose that sits at a much smoother point in the ultra early game

[untold sierra]

it's still afk?

[final ember]

Not true. We still have semi afk methods

[cyan hedge]

nah, the "afk" time has been nuked and jagex nerfed most buffs including stealth changing the best thieivng perk

[last patio]

I disagree. Active players can be rewarded with higher exp, that is good. But they shouldn't take away the AFK times.

[untold sierra]

bro, I did like an hour of thieving just meilyr actively swapping targets so I never got my three strikes while having these convo's

[cyan hedge]

this update feels like it needed more time to gather feedback and devtime but because they want to ride the goodwill from TH removal they are rushing out content.

[shy bay]

The thieving loot was a bit crazy for 15 minute afk. But I do think that 5 minute afk with crystal mask wasn't that bad. We still have a lot of fully afk combat methods that get you way more loot.

[cyan hedge]

I can afk combat for 30mill gold an hour, but afk thieiving was the busted thing? lmao

[kindred sand]

That's wild that they've gone for such a steep nerf for the highest level. A compromise could be spreading out the level requirements and lowering the low-mid xp rates, and increasing the level requirement for the highest tier.
I'm assuming the 110 Hunter update will give better xp rates to make up for this then, because I certainly couldn't stomach Big Game Hunter or other methods post 110 lol

[lyric sage]

Early Game Rebalance

Look inside

Late game thieving killed

[small topaz]

They made early game thieving way better.

[astral adder]

i thought ppl barely did whirlygigs to begin with, its an active intensive method... still dont get that nerf

[bold summit]

It was a pain to do. but for those that did to it it was really good

[astral adder]

when market allowed for 70m+ hour at dazzling i still hated it lol, same with literally everyone i asked.... barely did whirly gigs because carpoil tunnel simulator

[fair stream]

Where were you when pickpocketing was kill.

[brave kettle]

i did 4k whirlygigs for comp requirement and said "never again" it was misery

[lyric sage]

they said they want ppl to have different methods to train hunters and whirlygigs were the best way to go all the way to 99

real answer is they dont want whirlygigs to make all the new hunter leveling methods in havenhythe useless

[last patio]

This 💯. There shouldn't be anything wrong with the 5 minutes.

[desert fossil]

completely agree

[cyan hedge]

because nerfs are easy, building good content is hard

[lyric sage]

ik im just saying 😭

[fair stream]

5 minutes should be the standard for thieving hard agree

[bold summit]

If they made the content good from the start it wouldn't require nerfs 🙂

[small topaz]

I'm going to reassert my position that these thieving changes are very good for the health of the game, but something they could have done is a visual indicator of your pickpocketing chance decreasing overtime, right now there is zero visual. In OSRS they'd have a plugin built for this, but in RS3 since we do not have a client that can do that, they need to account for these types of QOL things in-game.

[cyan hedge]

nah, its bad for anyone training thieving. again, the buffs, afk time, etc were all fine. Just lower the rate.

Or make it so the xp rate starts at 100% and your auto pickpocket speed goes down over time so that you need to click again to reset it

instead of just stopping you and making it so the only perk that stops the stuns is gone

[astral adder]

i think oblivious would not be that good now, because afking makes you more likely to get caught indefinitely, unless getting hit resets that

[somber sundial]

Could we see smth similar to mining where when yoy get caught, you get a stacking debuff that reduces xp instead of stunning and killing you? Resets on clicking a new npc

[cyan hedge]

it doesnt work anymore, they changed the perk

[untold sierra]

getting hit DOES reset that, hence changing the perk

[astral adder]

im referring to the bigggest nerf of thieving - the infinite stacking "debuff" that not changing target makes you more likely to get caught

[untold sierra]

yeh, getting hit resets that

[astral adder]

the stealth removal of oblivious was a low blow.... on top of the hard nerf

[astral adder]

i know of the change lol. for afking its useless now. yay i get 3 more seconds of afk!

[cyan hedge]

overall the changes are bad, and the communication about them was worse. it should have been delayed for more feedback or play tested

[small topaz]

I don't understand - instead of stopping you by failing a pickpocket, you want it to stop you just in a different way? I'm sure they're going to find a middle ground here, but I just don't get how functionally your proposed change is different than just failing a pickpocket in a shorter period of time?

I think your proposed solution might actually feel worse overall because you immediately start getting worse and worse xp/loot versus getting full xp/loot just in shorter bursts?

[cyan hedge]

I don't want it to stop me, I want the xp to go down instead. Simple enough?

[sharp turtle]

xp isnt the only problem

[small topaz]

That's pretty silly, you want AFK even if it comes with zero xp 😂

[shy bay]

The new Oblivious perk is probably nice if you just unlocked the npc. But it is so different ... It would probably have been better if the perk just reduced the stun time.

[cyan hedge]

Im fine with an xp nerf and loot nerf, im not ok with this "kill afk methods because we decided players need more friction" style of gameplay

[astral adder]

its pretty simple elevor. afk should be afk, at less rates of xp/gp vs active. right now you cant even afk, thats the issue. ppl are fine with nerfed rates

[cyan hedge]

meanwhile osrs is slowly ADDING afk methods, because their devteam takes on feedback properly. IE: Gemstone crab

[small topaz]

OSRS AFK is like 35k xp/hr, I think you comparing the two is very out of touch

[potent river]

Ppl who point to osrs as a bastion of "look this game is popular and it doesn't have afk" are actually cooked in the head. OSRS players fucking rioted when Jagex tried to gut salvaging.

[cyan hedge]

60k xp an hour for skills to go to 99

thieving goes to 120 and had its best afk methods gutted

[vestal dune]

Damn dude I can’t click an NPC anymore and follow them around for 15 minutes anymore. Jagex is killing my game!

[small topaz]

Yes, the best AFK methods that made it possible to AFK to 120 in like 60 hours lol

[potent river]

Nerfing xp and gp would be fine even coupled with a consistent 5min afk with all unlocks. But gutting it and making it 1-2 mins is awful.

[fair stream]

5 minute afk would be perfectly serviceable

[astral adder]

thieving was not more than 5 min afk, lol. totally cooked in the head thinking its 15 min

[vestal dune]

Yea it shouldn’t even be 5 minutes

[sly python]

I'm pretty sure the majority of the people afk thieving for the items they gather while doing thieving. Not the XP/GP.
If they want GP/XP then they should be doing heists

[potent river]

With max unlocks I was afking 15mins on master mages for runes and pure ess

[vestal dune]

It should 1-2 minutes at max

[potent river]

Hell no, that's awful.

[astral adder]

some ppl just like funpolicing

[vestal dune]

What’s next click the beginning of the agility course and your character runs the whole course?

[potent river]

Tying afk time to CM at 5 mins is very appropriate with all unlocks at 120

[bold summit]

it absolutely was on certain good targets

[sturdy sonnet]

I think for game health it is better if they tone down this "AFK gaming". Lasts I saw real player or chat in game was year 2006.

[shy bay]

Do you also think Revolution (combat) should be removed from the game?

[potent river]

Bruh, that is such a wild take. You're clearly just here to stir shit up.

[sharp turtle]

rs3 thieving could have a split activity meter based on your inputs. osrs pickpocketing works where every click is 1 pickpocket attempt, so what if rs3 had an afk and active play path?

for the active mode, auto-pickpocketing is turned off and you have to click every time, but you don't get caught ever if you have the right gear.
for the afk mode, you can click once and pickpocketing acts like it does now, but you fail at a slightly less rate than this nerf.

[bold summit]

Afk combat should also take a hit soon™ yes. Mostly afk bossing thoguh

[vestal dune]

I’m not I’m just giving my opinion like everyone else. No trying to argue with you brother

[shy bay]

I do think AFK bossing should have never been a thing. But I expect that we will still be able to do things like vyres and Abyssal demons. And that's way more than 1 minute afk 😅

[untold sierra]

you can just do this now?

[warped thunder]

with auras going i dont know if vyres will eb as doable

[potent river]

The idea that allowing 5 min afk on theiving = one click to complete an agility lap is a hilariously bad faith comparison

[vestal dune]

It’s really not though. What’s the difference?

[potent river]

One skill is historically very afk and the other is agility.

[sharp turtle]

silverhawks?

[vestal dune]

That does not matter at all. The action and the outcome are the same. I click - afk happens - I get xp

[astral adder]

agil is an entirely differnt cringe "skill" lol. so good that i literally never did it to silverhawk to 120

[small topaz]

Thieving was not historically very AFK, unless you started playing in the past couple years

[last patio]

@fair stream for me it is not about the 15 minutes. I agree with removing 15 minutes afk from the game. But why they add the 15 min in the first place? They sold it with the Premier Pass.

For me it is about the 5 minutes with Crystal Mask. To get there and to be able to use the Crystal Mask, Lightform prayer, Ardougne Hard tasks, you've invested many hours. Now they nerfed it. I personally think the 5 minutes should be untouched.

[potent river]

Thieving was also useless until recently

[lofty mesa]

anyone tried menaphos guards pickpocketing? is it still manageable?

[shy bay]

Skills have different levels of being afk. That's quite an established thing. The fact that agility is not afk, does not mean that all fishing should be changed so it is like fishing frenzy....

[young ruin]

you get booted every 1.5 mins currently with all buffs

[lofty mesa]

oh....

[fair stream]

100% the fact they want to kill pickpocketting is crazy this update for theiving specifically missed the mark

[vestal dune]

Yeah and it makes no sense because all skills require the same amount of xp

[fair stream]

Lets make combat instakill you if you dont interact every 2 minutes

[potent river]

Require a captcha if you don't interact and change your target manually. Remove auto retaliate too

[small topaz]

Thieving doesn't instant kill you when you fail right? Did I miss that 😂

[lofty mesa]

Heists are the fast and active method, pickpocketing has a nice spot as the afk method. I wouldn't mind an exp nerf instead of the afk nerf. This was really not necessary

[fair stream]

This is the level of changes your pushing

[sharp turtle]

didnt think there was a mechanic that rewarded you for clicking as much as the ticks allowed

[bold summit]

We know you don't like the changes but try to atleast mention useful/serious feedback ❤️

[small topaz]

Yeah, no, it's not.

[potent river]

I have been giving a lot of good feedback. I'm just tired of people making terrible bad faith arguments. Why aren't you criticizing them?

[sharp turtle]

idk about that one

[fair stream]

Nerfing 15 minute afk to 2 minute afk is pretty heavyhanded

[astral adder]

do a 50-60% xp nerf for afking and call it a day ... still would be 700k+ an hour at vyres

[lofty mesa]

100% agree.

[small basalt]

700k+ XP/h is still too much XP for 0 effort 15 min afk

[burnt apex]

Just make it closer to 5 min afk no ?

[potent river]

Just look at my post history, I posted plenty of feedback since the original blogs.

[naive agate]

absolutely. 700k xp/hr for top end target? perfect

[young ruin]

I definitely think the full 15 min afk with xp and loot was far too op for the mena guards/other high tier pickpockets, especially as you had to only use 60% of the late game buffs.

With the current set up of using 100% of buffs, the 1.5 minute afk seems very heavy handed.

I think the balance here would be a 5 min afk, with -50% xp and drops, the afk remains valid, but it's not as powerful as active methods

[astral adder]

i dont think you can get 700k an hour on lower lvl targets or w/o full setup though... but even if its a bigger nerf than that, still better than current implementation by a long shot

[burnt apex]

I agree 15 min afk is too much, 5 min sounds like a sweet spot

[scarlet vine]

Pyramid plunder buffs seem to work 🙂

[sturdy sonnet]

where did this AFK gaming start? it is funny to read, And I thought 2 minutes afk is already too much.

[vestal dune]

There should be nothing in the game that is more than 2 minutes afk. That is part of the problem now with this community

[mellow crescent]

@cunning basalt Could I check if there was any ETA on when this issue will be fixed at all? - #bug-reports message from what one of the discord mods mentioned below the post it was a known issue for those that were on Legacy Mode before the first changes

[cyan hedge]

couple decades too late for that

[fair stream]

Ok let combat kill you if you afk more then 2 minutes and the same for every other afk skill

[vestal dune]

Well you’re not afk because your casting abilities so

[astral adder]

triage has to be ragebaiting / ultrabored 0/10

[young ruin]

5 min afks, for a very low xp amount are completely valid imo, provided it's not good xp, it should be the worst method for gaining xp in the respective skill

[fair stream]

Revolution exists

[sturdy sonnet]

it is never too late to change bad game mechanics. Next step would already be idle clicker

[vestal dune]

I’m really not it’s my actual
Opinion.

[bold summit]

they should have just never touched the logout timer

[vestal dune]

You’re still casting abilities in revo bro

[fair stream]

Im not casting anything i plant my character down and walk away

[burnt apex]

You are not the game do it for you (i am a revoer lol)

[shy bay]

I really agree with that one, it just promotes alting and afk'ing in the sunken pyramid...

[lofty mesa]

The pickpocketing nerf is a bit wild, its much too far. Nerf the exp, and leave us maybe 5-10 mins of afk. I would assume most people who are okay with this are 120 or 200m already

[sharp turtle]

xp isnt the problem. the rewards are too strong for afking.

[burnt apex]

Im ok with nerfing 15 min afk and i am not even 120 yet

[lofty mesa]

afk means away from keyboard, its not what the character is doing, it's whether you have to give it any inputs or not. By your logic, pickpocketing was never afk cause your character was always theiving?

[vestal dune]

That’s what people want now in this game lol. They want a RuneScape cookie clicker

[livid tiger]

On this logic, I’m not afk I’m thieving the person because I’m pickpocketing them

[small topaz]

I'm only level 100 thieving and totally content with clicking more often, it seemed extremely OP that I could click once every 15 minutes and get 500k xp/hr + gp + loot at Archeologists

[sharp turtle]

thats dumb lmao

[lofty mesa]

okay fair enough, maybe I was wrong in that assertion

I do believe Jagex has overcorrected here, and I hope they balance a little more

[bold sinew]

before update I got caught bt men in lumby within 1 min. so its a win

[burnt apex]

Theres a balance to get between 15 min afk and no afk they will surely get to it

[sharp turtle]

this is as bad as being 99 cooking and burning bread. there should be a cutoff level so you cant fail a pickpocket after that level, osrs has that system. it would reward late game players but it would still keep the endgame as semi-active since you would never not fail based solely on your level.

[astral adder]

they could also have a WC/mining approach where you get rewarded for activity, vs harshly punishing the afk'ers. Just let people play how they want. mindboggling the amount of folks that love funpolicing

[hybrid viper]

Good

[astral adder]

also, any nerf that addresses pickpocketing to past 5 mins without setup/buffs are 100% justified as well. middle ground would be nice

[sly python]

The way the redesigned thieving is the issue. You always will get caught at some point. No matter if you have bis everything. The chance of getting caught is getting higher and higher.

Imo if you have x levels higher than what's needed to pickpocket the person, the chance of getting caught should not increase anymore

[sharp turtle]

i wonder why they removed that in rs3

[lofty mesa]

This seems to be the MO these days, let thousands abuse the broken system and then overcorrect it for everyone else

[bold sinew]

I think osrs has some other ant afk system for thieving

[astral adder]

agree with imp.... the infinite stacking debuff for thieving sucks

[pulsar citrus]

anyone else having problems opening doors in thieves guild?

[sharp turtle]

create the problem to sell a solution

[cunning basalt]

Its a known issue, have you finished Buyers and Cellars?

[sly python]

It's bugged and getting looked at. If you finish the thieving minigame, it should get fixed

[sharp turtle]

the only afk thieving i know of in osrs is the wealthy citizens. theyre on a timer though so you only get a few minutes of afking.

[pulsar citrus]

yeah

[astral adder]

I can imagine others would feel really annoyed they missed the gravy train. personally I got 120 thieving in 1 weekend from the dwarf traders on release of mushroom bag

[bold sinew]

I have the issue, and also finished that miniquest

[lyric sage]

#1472914812165029991 message

[shy bay]

You also have Stealing valuables with the house keys.

[small topaz]

This seems like a silly comparison, are they selling extra thieving success chance in the store? 😂

[hybrid viper]

You have 2 minutes now

[lofty mesa]

i think even doing a 66% exp rate nerf to 500k is fair, given its afk and has decent loot. but this really does seem heavy handed

[cunning basalt]

Thanks for letting me know, team should have something in the works soon

[vestal dune]

lol it’s just wild seeing where we are now. You use to have to cook fish by clicking on each individual fish. Now people are complaining about not being able to pickpocket for 5 minutes straight uninterrupted

[sharp turtle]

cook x has been in the game for a while

[astral adder]

triage, you know you can alwys go play on a RS classic private server, seems like thats what you want

[lofty mesa]

you never had to cook each individual, at least as far as i remember

[lyric sage]

I have 0 cause I prefer active but I still want players who prefer afk methods to have one to begin with cause both should be viable

[vestal dune]

Yes you did a long time ago.Not saying I agree with that. Just making a point

[burnt apex]

I mean theres multiple afk methods ? Its a matter of how long you want them to be

[lofty mesa]

point taken. but it is a different game now, and you can't really benchmark with how things used to be 20 years ago

[potent river]

We also didn't have 120 skills that require you to get 91mil xp after 99. (Aka maxing 7 times)

[vestal dune]

And I don’t disagree with you but I’m just showing how far it’s come. I would of never thought we would be arguing over 5 minutes of afk lol

[lyric sage]

Early Game Rebalance

Look inside

Late game thieving impacted

[lofty mesa]

lmao

[sharp turtle]

if we had a cooking update today, we would have cook x, but every time we burned the food, it would damage us/stop us from cooking and wed have to click on the food and fire again to resume.

[small topaz]

You posted this already

[vestal dune]

And that is a fair point Doom

[light sedge]

My feels on today’s update.

Thieving:

This missed the mark big time, this is supposed to be low intensity afk but now it’s basically as intense as active methods but significantly less engaging. The loot was largely fine, it was comparable to fully afk combat provided you went out of your way to get every boost which is a fair trade off. The exp was overtuned but that’s really all that needed to be toned down. The oblivious perk change should have been discussed before going through. I get maybe full 15 minute afk is too much but 2 at best 5 min afk is too little for frankly such a boring method of gameplay.

Hunter:

I get you felt that whirligigs were too powerful. I think you overlooked that to get that power you again needed to unlock a fair bit of boosts, getting flowers is a very slow process that requires a lot of time, and that it was one of the most intensely active hunter methods. The move here shouldn’t have been such an aggressive exp nerf.

Quests:

Sheep sheerer was whatever, chef’s assistant was a change for the worse. Everywhere I looked the best response I saw to this was neutral “Don’t care” while the rest were “this sucks don’t do this”. And not only was at never a point that you addressed this feedback, not even to let us know you heard and are going forward, you just left is in the dark and pushed it through for frankly paper thin reasons.

My feedback for today’s update 3/10 this is pretty much a perfect embodiment of every fear I think people had come to life. I think this shows more than anything you need to slow down a lot what you are doing and take a more gentle touch, everything here felt very heavy handed. On the bright side I’m glad you are not doing the same with the regrounding of items.

[lyric sage]

Early Game Rebalance

Look inside

Late game thieving impacted

[burnt apex]

[potent river]

I'll be the first to say that 15min afk at 1.5m do is way too much. But we do have to account for amount of xp these skills need.

[small topaz]

Do you have any other comments about today's update or just gonna keep spamming the same three sentences 😂

There's other changes you could comment on like how they've buffed early game agility and thieving.

[lyric sage]

spam cause its funny how late game stuff got changed in an update based on early game

Early Game Rebalance

Look inside

Late game thieving impacted

[potent river]

15mins to 5 mins coupled with harsh reductions in xp and mild reduction in loot would be much more appropriate than making it 1-2 mins.

Thieving has active training methods already. Heisting is very good xp.

[pulsar citrus]

great, for further info, when attempting we get the message 'nothing interesting happens' and when a friend enters the thieves guild i cant see him (this could be due to him doing all miniquests tho, and i havnt)

[lofty mesa]

absolutely

[sly python]

Stop spamming that shit. It adds absolutely nothing to this thread

[vestal dune]

Little disingenuous my friend. I’m only stating my opinion. I play this game 5-6 hours a day and have been for many years.

[potent river]

I don't like it being inconsistent afk. If I can plan for 5min afk then that's fine. Even if they reduce profit and xp

[lofty mesa]

you're only encouraging them

[small topaz]

That is frustrating, especially since there is zero visual indicator of success chance decreasing, a progress bar or buff icon would help significantly.

[small basalt]

didn't expect oblivious perk to be changed the way it did, seeing it only adds a few extra seconds before getting caught. but seeing how damage calc was changed, it was necessary

[lofty mesa]

So is the current situation that with light form and cystal mask, magpie and full camo with ring of vitur only gives you 1.5-2 mins of afk?

[keen rock]

Just adding my 2c that this is legitimately a 1/10 update at best. Crazy work.

[sly python]

Yes

[small topaz]

Which parts?

[lyric sage]

afk thieving = bad, nerf exp rates

heavily active hunter = bad, nerf exp rates

[potent river]

Gotta make that 1 min now

[keen rock]

the consensus has been discussed at length here and on reddit

[lyric sage]

make this 1 minute

[burnt apex]

Sorry i just found it funny 😂

[cunning basalt]

Yeah its something to do with the variable state of the guild depending on which quests/capers you have done if I understand it correctly

[small topaz]

Oh so just the AFK thieving part? You came to this discussion thread with just a rating, thought you'd maybe have some input.

[shy bay]

😆 players are asking to make the max thieving succes range 5 minutes instead, of 2:00-2:30

[sly python]

The chance of getting caught keeps increasing.

Let's assume you're 120 thieving and you have bis gear and what not.

After x amount of "steals" the chance of getting caught reaches a certain point where you get caught.

It doesn't matter if you thief an npc that requires 1 thieving or 120

[lofty mesa]

I don't think anyone is required to have inputs in order to voice that they don't like the update.

[small basalt]

not to mention that you can go from 100% down to 99% and get caught immediately after. Do it enough times & this scenario will happen

[small topaz]

It helps to give specific feedback, don't be disingenuous.

If someone says "I hate X", a fair question is "What about it?"

[astral adder]

fair point i coulda been more friendly =). anyways coming out with big hot takes might get you such responses lol

[shy bay]

But yea it is sad that some of the great changes get almost no coverage; like making it take a reasonable amount of time to get the Thieving outfit, and improving the xp rate of agility courses and various hunter methods so they are not noob traps.

[sly python]

They can solve this easily by needing x amount of levels above required thieving level that stops you from getting caught. Same with Cooking. You stop burning after a certain level

[west arch]

The patch notes don't appear to mention the fact that Crystal Mask no longer has a chance to protect from stun damage? '... and has a chance to protect you from being harmed by them' has been removed from the description. Unless I'm missing something. The mask animation also disappears after casting.

[lofty mesa]

I may have misjudged your tone, I read it as you implying that someone can't come here and just say something without having an input rather than just asking a follow up which is what you may have been getting at. Not being disingenuous at all.

[vestal dune]

Well that’s because people are only going to put effort into something that affects them negatively for the most part. There is a ton of great changes they are doing.

[astral adder]

i think most ppl here are maxed or even 5.8b, otherwise they'd not be in reddit/disc etc. so the buffs arent affecting them but nerfs are hitting HARD

[warped thunder]

Did they make ibis easier to get? :0

[small basalt]

It's mostly because 90-99% of us in here aren't gonna be affected by the changes in low-level XP content since we're way past that stage. But I do like the drop rate buff of the plunder gear

[potent river]

Also I'll die on the hill that putting in the oblivious nerf last second feels awful. Having known that I think it would've shaped discussion and feedback dramatically.

[sly python]

It just adds a couple more steals before getting the chance to get caught. It's useless for thieving now

[small topaz]

Sorry about that! I'm really not here to stir up any trouble, and I can tell you aren't either, I just want to participate in the talks about the changes and a blanket '-10000/10 update pls revert jamflex' is not helpful to the discussion, or the developers who want to make changes based on what we have to say.

[potent river]

I did not see any discussion from a jmod that they were considering gutting oblivious prior to today's patch notes. Makes it feel like a bait and switch.

[somber sundial]

Could we see an approach similar to mining where you get significantly worse rates after getting caught, but not interrupt? Like if it went from 3 ticks per pickpocket to X ticks (subject to balance), possibly stacking every time the player gets caught?

Eg, after 2 mins you get caught and now pickpocket every 5 ticks. Then after another 4 mins you get caught again and now its 7 ticks. Then after 5 more mins you get caught a third time and now youre at 9 ticks between pickpockets.

[small basalt]

yeah that caught me off guard too. It only adds what, 6 seconds?

[astral adder]

LOL i was saying this earlier, oblivious is so useless, its 3 sec more of afk with sticky fingers etc

[potent river]

It's borderline not worth using the invention energy

[lofty mesa]

I was just talking in my clan discord yesterday that we should be okay since oblivious perk exists, maybe just need to bring an enhanced excalibur or maybe some food depending on how fast the success rate decays and heal up every so often.

[somber sundial]

Tbf oblivious before was also not worthwhile with 100% chance

[lofty mesa]

would have been worthwhile now

[somber sundial]

Yea, got killed before it had a chance to shine

[potent river]

Which means it would be worthwhile now and perfect to help mitigate the massive downsides pickpocketing has.

[slim sphinx]

Some thoughts

• 2 min avg afk round the board feels a bit too heavy considering the amount of time and effort it takes to get thieving bis, 5 min (cmask timer) with some adjustments to loot and xp would be better
• since auras are getting nuked I think getting a bit more powder would've been a fair tradeoff for the xp nerf to whirligigs, even tho flower gathering has been buffed slightly
• buffs to early agility courses is a good change
• thank you for not making Wildy skull mandatory for chaos altar
• early level gear drops are pretty neat

[potent river]

Now oblivious is almost completely worthless.

[icy peak]

i love how ores, bars and equipment drop now, and would honestly like to see the same done for mid level and even high level skilling supplies and crafted equipment

[small topaz]

I think this is a very fair spin on the changes. There seems to be two (or three considering some people are happy with the changes as is) camps here.

Some people like high level pickpocketing because it was good AFK.

Some people like high level pickpocketing because it was good XP+GP(Loot)/HR.

It's clear Jagex thinks the previous iteration of pickpocketing was OP (I agree), but what should be changed. The AFK'ness, or the XP+GP(Loot)/rate.

[small basalt]

The loot's gonna be looked at when the late-game rebalance comes later in the year I'm fairly certain it was mentioned...somewhere

[somber sundial]

General sentiment about m&s rework is that its one of the best updates to the game, so mimicing it in various ways is not a bad thing. One thing it did that people enjoyed is that it gave afk options to two historically active only skills.

[lofty mesa]

since we have a high exp and high drop option with heists. I feel as though we need to preserve afk with this option

[kindred sand]

Personally the xp/hr should be part of the change, not how afk it is. I liked pickpocketing fairy's because I could cast crystal mask every 5 minutes and I was getting a decent amount of charms. At the same time though, I would expect post 99 & 110 training methods to give good xp so 1.5m xp/hr wasn't out of the realm of what I'd expect. But I'd be happy with less xp and the same loot & afk times

[somber sundial]

Loot was also overtuned tbh

[astral adder]

yeah rip blood/sand prices LOL

[prisma stone]

This thieving nerf is terrible asf😂

[astral adder]

on reddit right now like 50% of total posts are complaints about this nerf lol

[bold summit]

And like 100% are not even talking about the intended targets "early game"

[astral adder]

well....because theres low% of newer players and generally they'd not come to reddit/discord

[sturdy sonnet]

I add my feedback to your comment as it is directly opposite. As I see it, it affects mining and smithing skill negatively. In fact, I think that salvage and spirits system is brilliant. It allowed players to interact with other players through trading or let them craft or mine resources themselves. Only problem I saw, which would be easy to fix, is that there should of been more info on them when you examine them. Something like " Can be used in invention, alched or sold into shop" When I first got Salvage I had no clue what to do with it. I wish they did not do this change.

[slim sphinx]

Spirits are fine but salvage for early game was kinda stupid since you don't really put them to any noticeable use until much much later

Oh wow vendor trash and that's about it, can't even melt down a bunch to make a bar or something either

Osrs at least has giants foundry where there's some reason to keep some stuff to melt down into using them at the minigame later for an early game player

[icy peak]

id mostly want to see a mix of the two personally, while spirits have the benefit of having next to no impact on skilling profitability (which is a whole other issue i cba talking about) it restricts drop tables and pushes common loot into being mostly alchables and bolt tips

which is way more unhealthy for the game than mid level 15 minute afk mining not being lucrative

its also a really weird double standard where div energy, logs, runes, herblore secondaries, herbs etc. can be dropped from pvm

[bitter loom]

Wow - oblivious change is pretty terrible.

[icy peak]

but for some reason smithing items are exempt from being from any other source than skilling

[whole shore]

so no movable clock still??

[bitter loom]

I don't remember seeing oblvious perk changes mentioned anywhere

[bold summit]

❤️

[solid mural]

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this pickpocketing nerf is absolutely terrible?

[astral adder]

look on reddit...few things have ever been this negatively received

[bitter loom]

As a whole, no. It needed to be nerfed. Been saying for years crystal mask + prayer was way way to strong for what they are

[bold summit]

People are way to focused on the "i can't afk for 15 minutes" part instead of the rest imo

[vestal dune]

That’s because the rest of the changes don’t affect most of the players on discord and Reddit. Reddit is nothing but maxed out mains for the most part

[steady hamlet]

Mk, they made something super chill and afk, no longer afkable. Why am I getting hit by archaeologists at 117 thieving?

[astral adder]

ive not seen one post of people complaining about not being able to 15m afk either. ppl wanna be able to keep 5 min afk with reduced xp/loot if they grinded all the bis stuff after stacking all buffs

[small topaz]

Well, the more you reach your hand into someone's pocket, the higher likelyhood they're going to catch you.

[digital schooner]

Thieving was like this or worse up until like 2 months ago minus like.. Crux knights ....

[vestal dune]

With thieving though you still have safes and heists which are great xp and require active play. I feel like pickpocketing should not overshadow those two and you should get the least amount of loot and xp from doing it.

[small topaz]

I am currently at Arch guild on W79, still loads of people here... if you believe every word you read on Reddit you'd think that this place would be a ghost town 😂

[woeful salmon]

i disagree, I think heists and safes should be fantastic for active xp and loot, i think its beneficial to have something afk for loot or XP but not both. the fact of the matter is a lot of this playerbase loves afk and while i think we should have great options for active gameplay we shouldnt be gutting afk and taking away everything. reduce the xp and make afk a way to passively make gp/supplies

[brittle bay]

sticky fingers relic really is not getting love these past 2 updates for theiving

[small topaz]

I would hope when they change auras later this year, they will be rolling a ton of these things into relics

[sharp turtle]

i knew the game was in a bad state when i saw a post about someone who was 200m all trying to max all their bxp.

[brittle bay]

the relic just seems pointless now bar i want slightly more loot and less afk

[vestal dune]

Yeah that place is partly why the game is in its current state. It’s a huge echo chamber. Anytime Jagex makes a change to actually make it where you have to work for something that sub goes ballistic

[sharp turtle]

my two main gripes with the community is the echo chamber that is reddit and the people here who cant accept any form of change

[vestal dune]

Are we not saying the same thing? I agree afk you should still get loot and xp just not as much from active methods

[brittle bay]

change is good but often there's some niche that gets over looked or forgotten, whirligigs went from do them 1-99 too literally never do them

[sturdy sonnet]

Good that you mention that. Personally I would of liked if loot tables always worked like this that killing monsters do not directly nerf rest of the gathering or crafting skills but add value. So instead of dropping armor, weapons and resources which are gathered or crafted by players but drop secondaries which are needed in said professions.

[icy peak]

yea no

[vestal dune]

Well their powders have great uses

[pallid iron]

Everyone does.

[solid mural]

Absolutely, you choose something afkable because of the fact it's afkable even though the xp rate is going to be lower but now they make it no longer afkable and don't bother to change the xp rate lol

[brittle bay]

yeah it's fine to ahve a money making method to 99 if the prices increase but no one was ever gathering them during skilling, you'd click a non-flowered version then click the flowered versions

[cinder heath]

lets rebalance the rebalance

[steady hamlet]

They could change up the formula for early game without shafting late game players

[icy peak]

having low effort and low skill expression gathering be the only source of resources would be disasterous for drop table design and wreck the game for ironmen

[vestal dune]

Well not just money making. There are actual game play uses from the shell powders

[pallid iron]

I think you mean, "Let's keep the early-game rebalance to the early game and NOT affect end-game content until the end-game rebalance."

[brittle bay]

yes penance powder etc, so if no one does whirligigs price goes up, might become a viable money making method, but then if they become too expensive you just wont ever use them in pvm

[solid mural]

So glad I wasn't the only one. I thought I was going crazy

[pallid iron]

Saw an argument that juju mining and stone spirits was just fine and didn't need a rebalance, but oh no 15 minutes afk in full BiS theiving setup doesn't even net 2 minutes of AFK on anything above 100 thieving.

[astral adder]

you cant even afk lvl 1 npcs at 120 thief all bis + all buffs

[icy peak]

skilling will never be good money as long as it can be afked to the extent of stuff like juju mining, and making pvm drop tables worse because of it is crazy

[sharp turtle]

yeah this doesnt make sense.

[sturdy sonnet]

Archaeologists AI got improved. Now they are able to realize faster that something fishy is going on when someone hands are 15 minutes in their pockets.

[dawn nexus]

We all knew before today that theving was going to be bad for this update for late game but I was think mabe 7 min or 10 not 2min

[cinder heath]

What if they remove 15 and 10min lobby timer and go back to the old 5min?

[woeful salmon]

my fault pimp, i misread, it's 7:30am for me and im sleepy

[wintry mulch]

I'm glad I got 100 thieving before going to bed last night. Waking up to and reading this entire thread, my suspicions were nothing but confirmed. Thieving is dead.

[astral adder]

the backlash regarding the game updates for this is honestly warranted imo. the personal attacks/threats/meltedowns etc arent in any situation though... some ppl got too heated

[candid marten]

well at least early game thieving so far feels fine haha. before, even at level 17 thieving, it seemed i could barely pick pocket a man, but now i actually can

[pallid iron]

that doesn't fix anything and the QoL is too good.

[solid mural]

Absolutely crazy, having full BiS gear and can't even get 2 minutes of afking on a lvl 1 npc but make no changes to the xp rates

[small topaz]

How is it dead? You just mean the 15 minute AFK part? XP+GP/HR is exactly the same.

[small basalt]

except it's not when you're getting caught compared to not at all prior to update

[cunning basalt]

If you have footage of that please send it to me as that would be a bug

[small topaz]

I mean it is, if you're playing the game haha

[vestal dune]

It’s dead because you can’t leave your keyboard for 15 minutes come on @small topaz

[wintry mulch]

I wouldn't have gotten 87-100 without the AFK. As a player with double neurodivergence (autism and ADHD), I burn out fast when I'm forced to focus too frequently.

[pallid iron]

Agreed. There are so many things they COULD have done (I.E put a timer on pickpocketable NPC's like eternal magic trees) or just reduce the amount of xp/pickpocket to a cap. AFK has always had a place in RS, obviously the devs think so as well or they wouldn't have ever added auto pickpocket. There's a way to fix something without breaking it in it's entirety, which we all know the dev's and their spaghetti code are great at.

[vestal dune]

This is not getting enough attention. Early game pickpocketing is 10x better

[sturdy sonnet]

Can anyone please explain why do you want to "play" AFK anyway?

[cinder heath]

second screen

[pallid iron]

The issue is, that end game content was affected with an early game rebalance. I'm happy early game stuff got refreshed.

[woeful salmon]

some people dont have time to commit to actively playing all the time, afk has always been one of the perks of rs3

[small topaz]

I've been reading a lot of feedback like this, they want to reach end game goals by doing minimal work. Even if it takes much longer, they appreciate the inactive gameplay components... if botting wasn't bannable I think they'd just do that.

[sturdy sonnet]

Do not you think it is only logical that when you are afk then you get afk results?

[candid marten]

real. it's a shame that it sounds like the end game was feels bad right now for people
but at least it's not all bad currently and early game feels nice. which is good for me because my thieving is really low still haha

[dawn nexus]

Do you know how long it takes to get the thieving ring imagine getting it now lmao

[small topaz]

Takes exactly the same amount of time actually, they didn't change drop rates at all

[wintry mulch]

I used to be able to stand up, take 10 minutes to shower, and come back to find my character still doing the action I left it doing. Now that that's not possible, I experience FOMO whenever life calls.

[pallid iron]

Don't forget to include all of the minutes spent stunned over the course of 25k pickpockets.

[small topaz]

If you get stunned every 2 minutes instead of lobbied every 15 minutes that's still like 45 seconds.

[small basalt]

safes & stalls didnt change at all. But yeah removing the never-stun effect of oblivious is gonna hurt a bit. You could just 15 minute AFK in the bank & it'd just keep healing you instantly when you get punched

[wintry mulch]

The only AFK I can now do is Seren stone mining, as that's the only place I can think of where there isn't a negative for AFK.

[pallid iron]

That's IF you're lucky to get a full 2 minutes every single time. I'm testing at wizards tower magers and with aura + mask + lightform + master camo + perks I'm averaging 1.25 minutes per stun.

[scarlet plinth]

This is not the update we need

[candid marten]

well per mod azanna's message above, it sounds like that could be a bug

[dawn nexus]

That not including people that don't have every single perk already

[small topaz]

They reduced stun time to 3 seconds (5 ticks). By the time I notice I failed a pickpocket it's already over.

[wintry mulch]

The only W I see

[cunning basalt]

Please send footage of your setup and this occuring so I can pass it along to the team to check

[digital schooner]

Cleansing crystals, nearly all non-boss (& some boss) Combat/Slayer, Seren ore smithing, Any smithing (not optimal xp, but still viable); Sole fishing, any archeology

[lethal jasper]

Full bIS theiving, arch professors and i get about ~2 minutes. At least make it crystal mask duration. Increase the cost of crystal mask if you have to

[dawn nexus]

At lest we have a mod reading what we are saying I guess what a plus in my book

[candid marten]

yea and it sounds like these bad thieving times are a bug

[astral adder]

according to patch notes its not a bug... the success chance infinitely decreases till fail

[vestal dune]

lol I was just saying this on Reddit and got burned at the stake for it. If botting wasn’t against the rules people would 100% do it.

[west arch]

I'm also getting ~1.25 min between stuns at fairy traders at level 114 with full camo, but without aura, perks or Crystal Mask

[buoyant sapphire]

Reddit is always mad about something

[buoyant sapphire]

Are we supposed to rotate targets more now (Honest question I have no clue)

[candid marten]

mod azanna literally said it's a bug in reference to someone getting 2 minutes for pickpocketting a man with bis gear
and they also asked for footage for someone having the same thing for wizards.

[small basalt]

Just wait til the aura blog drops in an hour or so 🙃

[small topaz]

Yes that's the goal, click on a different target to reset the success rate decrease.

[lethal jasper]

I guess, but also, some places only have one target like arch professors

[lapis heart]

I know that there will be tuning for mid and late game later however spending 2 mins on pickpocketing using every upgrade doesn't feel good to me. I was excited to try out the new npcs to pickpocket for mats and have been enjoying it. Personally it feels like at that point I may as well just be doing heists if I'm going to be that active anyway. I enjoyed pickpocketing as an afk way to get a few mats for arch while studying to feel like I'm progressing. If the amount of items is an issue let people afk for the 15 minutes but with a greatly reduced amount of items. Say like 50% or 60% nerf. Crystal Mask requires the light within which requires several level 80s. At that point if you're using it you're not using it to level but to enjoy the ability to farm gp while you relax. Having you get stunned so it goes from 15 minutes to 2 minutes and having your boosts reduced to hit that 100 is burning the candle on both sides.

[bold summit]

15 minutes is way to long for afk content. and 2 minutes isn't quite enough.

[cunning basalt]

I think there is a few scenarios being thrown around at this moment that are causing confusion, if your pickpocketing high level targets like Arch profs (108) Fairys (113) Vyrelords (118) etc you will be getting caught relatively quickly after your guarenteed success chances fall off, meanwhile if your using BIS gear and stealing from the level 1 pickpocket target you shouldnt be getting caught in similar times, which is why I have asked for this player to supply a video so we can confirm whats going on.

[lapis heart]

I'd be happy with 10mins and reduced amounts of items received as well. If we're going half way. It's just 2 mins feels so bad

[lethal jasper]

Its the post 100 targets that i think everyone cares about. B/c this was supposed to be "early game rebalance" and the loot was reshuffled once already to account for the 15, are you planing on rebalancing the loot again with this change in mind?

[trail halo]

I can make a small vid later of the menophite market guards.

[thick kindle]

Did the clue drop rate at menaphos guards get changed or am I just getting unlucky?

[dawn nexus]

They could of done reduce xp the long you pickpocket tbh

[cunning basalt]

will flag up for a look

[velvet wave]

Can confirm I've been punched well above the limit, they appear to be in the same state before I started.

[solid mural]

Just like the harps in prif, that would have made so much more sense

[dawn nexus]

Can confirm

Never had to replace mine

[scarlet plinth]

So what’s the issue here? Is it the money you get or the xp? If it’s money then that’s crazy cause I can afk vindicata for like 30 and make a fuck ton more gp. Is that an issue ?

[cunning basalt]

I understand that but I was mostly trying to confirm if a bug was happening with that players statement of getting stunned after a minute or so in BIS on level one targets.

Right now I dont have any information on changes to tables for the higher end of the skill, the team is monitoring feedback on this topic at the moment

[vague garnet]

Casualties from people's face getting bashed in due to no longer being current hp will be fun

[steep cloak]

Road to Restoration is more going to Road to Destruction.. I really hope the mid/end game changes make me change my mind..

[dawn nexus]

They live stream today should be fun

[vague garnet]

Would be nice if they did the drop again.
Been a while since the last one

[vestal dune]

Why is that? Because you can’t AFK for 15 minutes or because of something else?

[steep cloak]

Because of all changes happening tbh

[neon rock]

The change in drops for cyclopses do not seem to affect the cyclopses found in the warrior guild. Those still drop black weapons and salvage. The salvage is also still unaffected by the noting effect of multi-token.

[vestal dune]

Well what specifically makes you think that?

[analog hull]

yeah pickpocketing feels terrible now, could have just nerfed the xp, I only care about the loot lol

[dawn nexus]

For the most part I think 90% of it is good things

[lethal jasper]

3 minutes 17 seconds at a man in lumbridge with full bis, cmask and light form, no aura, i can record a video if you want.

[digital schooner]

We gotta stop with this dramatic stuff if any feedback is going to be taken seriously. It's really cringe.

[maiden phoenix]

it’s like everything good with the 120 thieving update has been reversed within just two months

[bold summit]

It's like everyone is only focusing on the less afk endgame and not the improved early game 🤷‍♂️

[digital schooner]

Even with zero fixes pickpocketing is a low-input, 6m gp 1.5m xp per hour training method....

[lethal jasper]

most of us who are in this discord are going to be pretty much post early game

[west arch]

I got 3 min 50 sec with full camo, no aura, no Crystal Mask (at level 114) (I recorded it)

[bold summit]

If "less afk" is the only bad thing about the update there really isn't a problem at all

[cunning basalt]

A video would be useful

[maiden phoenix]

many of us work and play runescape on another screen so no less afk is not a great thing for a good portion of the player base

[steep cloak]

They nerf all skilling stuff, while than they should also nerf afk bossing, like why are people who do bossing be rewarded while skilling (lot of skilling requires lot of stuff/unlocks to be actual profitable) only gets nerfed. Than nerf AFK bossing/mob killing next plz.

[analog hull]

yeah I feel like if you're at the point where you have all the boosts you can get, you've earned the ability to afk pickpocket for 15 min...

[pallid iron]

Working on it! I don't have nitro so where could I possibly upload / send this to you once I can get footage.

[vestal dune]

Well that’s because end game players only care about their goals and not the health of the entire game. As a community we have to start supporting decisions for the health of the game and try to bring in new players. If we want this game we all love so much to survive we all should be trying to attract new players

[sharp turtle]

lmao reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1r6d786/why_is_everyone_pretending_a_15min_afk_pick/

[small basalt]

Crazy I got 3:16 with camo, aura, cmask/LF, and vitur. Worth noting though that success chance does go down every pick once 100% boost is up, so there will be varying times

[west arch]

Yeah second time just now I got ~3 min 20 sec (also have vitur btw)

[dawn nexus]

I'm afking abyssals while in here js

[steep cloak]

don't say to loud you afking stuff as it will be next thing to be nerfed 😂

[sharp turtle]

too. why are so many people misspelling too now?

[dawn nexus]

Lmao

[bold summit]

Always have. Always will. Just like your and you're

[small basalt]

3:25 the 2nd round on a lvl 1 target. So yh the claims about bein caught after 1 min on basic men/women are p much debunked

[west arch]

3:50 at level 114 with full master camo and ring of vitur, no Crystal Mask or aura, no perks (also got ~3:20 and 3:45)

[dawn nexus]

I think they said 2 mins

[bright dawn]

@cunning basalt are u guys aware of the spring cleaner bug atm

[bold summit]

Something with arrows? Yes

[bright dawn]

yep

[bold summit]

He replied on a reddit thread about it that they're looking at it

[west arch]

I was able to post it here without Nitro (drag and drop)

[pallid iron]

Each lap corresponds with the time I was caught. @cunning basalt

120 thieving. Master Mages (106 requirement), Full camo, vitur ring, mask, lightform.

[rugged grotto]

Has anyone tried turning off sticky fingers? Theoretically it should increase your afk time, xp stays the same, and loot gets reduced

[lethal jasper]

i'm about 1:15-1:30 with same buffs, and aura

[autumn bison]

The inconsistency is the most frustrating part of the changes.

When you don't know when you're going to be caught, it doesnt matter that you can get up to 2 minutes afk as you have to be constantly monitoring it. At the point, it makes it completely useless as a method as its essentially very active and i might as well do heists. Theres no point pickpocketing anymore unless you need specific items like I'm currently trying to do with gobie scavangers.

Except with scavangers, I basically need to live at heists for a few weeks to get 120 before its even worth revisiting.

[scarlet vine]

Amazing pyramid blunder buffs got full ibis set from 0 pieces in under 2 hours

[small topaz]

Clicking once every 1-2 minutes is hardly "Very active". I totally agree with your frustration on having zero idea of when you're going to get caught. I think there should be some sort of visual indicator of a progress bar, or a 'buff' showing your current failure rate.

[wintry mulch]

I should do pyramid plunder now that I have the level to reach the last room. If I'm going to have to deal with the nerfed rates at which I can continuously pickpocket, I may as well get the XP boosting set to make up for that loss.

[small topaz]

Very active is like, y'know, clicking the screen every couple seconds.

[autumn bison]

Being "active" isn't just in APM, its also in the mental load the skill takes. Going from checking once every 5 minutes to constantly monitoring so that you can pickpocket again is active training

[lethal jasper]

The other thing is if the idea is to alternate targets to reset the buff, we need more targets for high level theiving. Master mages, Arch professors, etc are either 1 npc or very spread out

[spring cave]

This change is an inconvenience for the older population that plays the game. Most of us have families or work, in order to play we need that afk time. We cannot afford to look at the screen as often as this. Some will say stop crying or "find a new game that better fits your needs", but after playing the game for so long this is what I enjoy.

[tulip quartz]

But don't you get it? People need to be able to afk 1m xp/hr

[small topaz]

Okay, but "Very active" is an over exageration correct? 1-2 minutes is enough time to look away, watch a show, then look back at your screen to click again?

[rapid snow]

congratulations jagex, 120 thieving update was 1 of the 2 good updates you had the last year, and now you ruined at a record time

[dawn nexus]

There was definitely other ways they could of done this tbh

[tulip quartz]

What are the other ways? If they gut the xp, you all whine. If they gut the loot, you all whine. If they gut the afk a little bit, you all whine. It's a lose lose situation for jagex

[dawn nexus]

They already said in one of the post they are going to look into the xp and gold from pickpocketing

[vestal dune]

It’s sad but this is the current reality of this community

[wary crow]

Because the getting caught seems to be random, pickpocketing afk just got killed

[rapid snow]

cut afk a little bit?, you think that 15 min to 1 min is considered a little bit?

[cunning basalt]

Yes, should have been fixed about an hour ago

[tulip quartz]

Yes there was no reason for pickpocketing to be as op as it was when the xp and loot was extremely good.

[wary crow]

If XP rates were the issue, why not just nerf the XP to something really low like seasonal events are

[bright dawn]

very nice, tyty

[sturdy sonnet]

tbh, there is no reason to reward any afk activities.

[wary crow]

Just make the xp rate way lower

[dawn nexus]

Thieving xp rates where op tbh

[autumn bison]

If you got 1-2 minutes every time sure. But per the SS above they got caught in a max of 2 minute and a low of 19seconds and 6 seconds. The issue is you have to be constantly looking at it as you have no idea when you'll be caught. The constant interaction with the game, regardless of how much you're clicking makes it very active.

Its a low engagement training method like mining because its just 1 click. But because you dont know when you'll have to interact again, you have to constantly look at it.

To summarise my main gripe, the fact you dont know if you're going to be able to get 1 or 2 minutes, or 6 seconds is frustrating to me as a player. If there was consistency, I could work around it, the fact that there isn't is very annoying gameplay.

[tulip quartz]

I can guarantee you, the same people would still be complaining.

[bold citrus]

gnome stronghold course should be bumped up to a lvl 10-15 course. currently there's really no point in the gnome course. could instead fill the gap between 1 and 25

[digital schooner]

They already did; don't forget the wayyy overpowered thieving loot was already nerfed once and Reddit/Discord blew up.

[dawn nexus]

As I said earlier I wouldn't mind longer you pickpocket the lower xp you get I till you click on them

[slim sphinx]

I still think 5 min afk is a sweet spot

[strong sonnet]

Glancing over at your second monitor and clicking once every two minutes is not the same intensity level as heist… yes you have to keep an eye on it but it’s not bad to do it on the side while doing something else

[wary crow]

Yea if XP rates were the issue, just nerf the rate. But by making it a random get caught. You went from an afk activity to essentially an active activity.

[autumn bison]

but you dont know its going to be two minutes. It could, and is often as low as 6 seconds. It takes a way higher mental load so its just not worth second monitoring unless you're a multitasking god which my ADHD brain isn't

[slim sphinx]

Maybe 2 min low effort w/ more loot using sticky fingers and 5 min w/o sticky fingers w/ less loot would be nice imo

[prisma stone]

Or half way 7,5 mins perfectly fine

[wary crow]

So far today I've seen it go as long as roughly 6 min. And as short as 20 seconds. Very inconsistent

[cunning basalt]

Will pass along, the 6 seconds feels like a weird outlier that was your first one?

[lethal jasper]

I've not had more than 3 minutes on lvl 100+ targets unless i get a reset with outfit or something

[wary crow]

To clarify I've only tried archaeologist

[lavish prairie]

y’all ruined thieving for WHATTTTT
can’t even be away from my laptop for a minute now

[small basalt]

Well, after you exaust your bonuses post-100% chance, the 1st pick after drops down to 99% success. So according to the laws of probability, you can fail at 99% once every 100 clicks

[cunning basalt]

even in that case, he wouldnt have burnt through his safety net in 6 seconds with the setup he mentions

[brisk cairn]

Hear me on this Jagex. This update ain't it. 15min afk has a place and you could make it work but not even stopping at 5 mins with mask at top end of thieving is criminal.

Feels like you're taking revenge against the players.

Fix this.

[strong sonnet]

I mean your efficiency is going to be a bit lower, but that’s not really the gameplay style pickpocketing serves.

Can just put a 3 or 4 minute afk warden up and put another window over it so you don’t see it. It won’t trigger you and you’ll only have to click when you stopped for sure

[small basalt]

could be exaggerations, who knows. I mean it'd sure feel like 6 seconds after we've been so used to 4 clicks an hour

[brittle bay]

having full afk methods is fine as long as they lose in other areas xp and loot etc, making there no afk option with utter bis is weird ngl

[wary crow]

I don't complain much..but agreed. If 15 min was too long. Ok make it 7 or something. If XP rate was too high, lower it. If loot was an issue, nerf it. But this makes pickpocketing a hassle when it doesn't need to be.

[solid mural]

Yeah 15 minutes to 1 minute is just cutting the afk a little bit 😂 but don't voice your opinion about it because it's whining. If you complain it's OP though it's not whining so that's fine

[bright dawn]

feel a balanced compromise would be reduced xp / loot after a set amount of time until u reclick rather than failing pickpocket altogether

[rapid snow]

I like to see the positive side of this, i dont need to renovate this anymore

[full vector]

cheeky monkey losing its effect seems like a rip off. lots of people brought it just for the bonus. instead of a full removal alter it like the oblivious perk to give a few extra pick pockets

[dawn nexus]

It Crystal mask even worth getting now? It takes alot to unlock it but is the time to get it vs reward when you can just click on the guy your pickpocketing instead to refresh the percentage

[small basalt]

re-clicking the same target does not refresh your success chance I've already tried that

[lethal jasper]

its like an extra 40 seconds with light form, and you want the other stuff from the things that unlock light mask, so yeah but still feels bad

[autumn bison]

you dont get 3-4 minutes. Maximum you get 2, more frequently you get 1. Low end you get a few second. How am I meant to interact with that in a way that isn't constant monitoring?

[bold citrus]

guess you can go full afk now 😂

[dawn nexus]

I though that was what to post said

[sturdy sonnet]

old fashion way. you look at monitor.

[autumn bison]

Ok so you agree its changed from an afk method to a fully active method?

[small basalt]

it's clicking a different target

[wary crow]

Yea I tried that too. It doesn't reset. You can re click and still get caught in a minute or under

[dawn nexus]

Ahhh

[vestal dune]

No bro don’t say that. I need to be able to walk my dog and come back and have enough mats to restore two relics

[brittle bay]

15min dog walk, thats criminal

[rapid snow]

simple, during season i dont feel to play active, i just leave it afk making progress while playing other stuff, now i dont have my afk method, so i dont need to keep the member while palying others stuff

[sturdy sonnet]

if you need to click only once per minute then this is not very active

[small topaz]

If it was like 50k xp/hr would you still do 15 minute AFK, serious question, just want to gauge.

[rapid snow]

yes

[steep cloak]

I think mining with perfect juju potion is to afk.. maybe nerf it aswell (sarcasm)

[rapid snow]

i literally did a 15 min afk method that gives me that exp, wich i wont going to mention because they would probably ruined too

[brisk cairn]

If xp/loot is the issue, adjust that.

Why mess with the core gameplay loop and destroy perks like oblivious?

15m afk has its place in a lot of other places in the game.

[autumn bison]

My point, which ive said multiple times, is you dont know if you need to click once per minute or in 6 seconds time. The constant monitoring makes it active. If im going to be paying constant attention to the game, I should (and will with the exception of the teci i need) do heists instead, as at least when I am able to pay full attention to the game I can do something interesting.

[somber sundial]

In some sense, i measure xp/click while afking, rather than xp/hr, since thats realistically what i do when second monitor gaming

[hardy ferry]

it is active and it is actually worse than having to be fully there vs fully not there. 1 minute is not enough time to do anything else so I just have to sit there watching the screen for 1-2 minutes because it could fail at any time

[autumn bison]

I only pickpocket for loot I cant get in other ways, I dont care about the exp personally.

[vestal dune]

I agree! (No sarcasm)

[small topaz]

Do you agree that Archeologists, Menaphite Guards, Vyres were way too much XP per click?

[bold citrus]

Maybe there should be separate discussions for each skill, thieving changes are drowning out everything else

[somber sundial]

Oh yea xp and loot was way over tuned

[vestal dune]

You got them dude. They’re trying to get us all to quit.

[dawn nexus]

While we are at it take porter out the game

[vestal dune]

Based. Bro I can only get so excited. While we’re there remove wars retreat too.

[sturdy sonnet]

If you do not have time to actively play and you can not or do not want to monitor your game then you just miss few clicks? You miss a bit of XP and chance for some loot and so what? Less focus= less loot/xp. Seems fair to me.

[spring cave]

dont worry, fishing is too afk it is next, gonna be like irl fishing

[small topaz]

Setting up porters to allow more AFK gameplay is a great way to reward careful planning and execution, at level 103 thieving you require nothing to AFK 15 minutes (except the cape which just prevents you from filling up your inventory prematurely)

[dawn nexus]

Remove the option to eat fish with the shark outfit also

[steep cloak]

And add another ghostly sole spot, or make it move, as that is 15 min afk aswell

[small basalt]

shark outfit goes bye-bye on regrounding update. "Consume" -> "Catch & release"

[dawn nexus]

Remove the ore box and wood box also

[somber sundial]

I think the current xp per click for thieving is actually fine, but its a little awkward in how its executed is all

[autumn bison]

My main point is its frustrating gameplay, and its fine if you dont agree. I personally dont like to play if I dont think its a good use of time.

Yes, that is one way to make it inactive, but as an iron if im wasting runes, and potions to boost to use CM and LF, I want it to be used well. Coming back after i've made a cup of tea, and seeing my character standing still, having lost 500 prayer points and a minute of crystal mask isn't fun gameplay, and not something I'll be engaging with.

If you will, and you think thats a fine trade off, thats ok. For me, it isn't. Agree to disagree 🤷‍♂️

[solid mural]

Well it's funny they are going the right way about it then

[hard pumice]

Agreed, the update is horrible

[rapid snow]

question, what is the point to have 15 min lobby timers, if you want to cut 15 min afk activities?

[keen hull]

Pickpocket animation lock needs to be fixed now more than ever

[dawn nexus]

When are the going to look at the dead mini games like castle wars and Stealing Creation

[rapid snow]

just sell your jagex launcher thing?

[digital schooner]

Agreed. Let's go back to 5 min so that players play the game and new players don't join and see a bunch of players acting like NPCs.

[small basalt]

pfft back in my day it was 1 minute

[hard pumice]

RS is enjoyable because some skills are afkable, forced to be active for gameplay that's uninteresting is not a good way too win over players

[dawn nexus]

100%

[keen hull]

Sticky Fingers makes it worse because it commits pickpockets so frequently, it becomes difficult to click off a target thanks to the lock

[dawn nexus]

Like I hate hunter my self 😒 can't wait for the bird House

[hard pumice]

They had to do big game hunter to fix Hunter because it's so bad

[turbid acorn]

what if they just invert how Sticky Fingers work? if you autopickpocket 50% or 100% slower AND lowers the catch rate, it would be better

[autumn bison]

literally I saw the changes and grinded out my hunter for BGH and theiving to get as much teci as possible towards to codexes before the changes. Not been a fun couple of weeks and unfortunately my fears we're well founded looking at the theiving changes

[white flint]

What is the calculation on the Ardy Cloak for pickpocketing now?

[solid mural]

Exactly, apparently this is beyond a lot of people's comprehension

[dawn nexus]

I grinded teci aswell lmao

[autumn bison]

I wonder if you were one of the poor souls i saw on world 82 last week lol

[lofty mesa]

whats the teci for and why do the changes affect it?

[small basalt]

lets you unlock the mazcab abilities without actually having to do raids

[dawn nexus]

100%

[autumn bison]

Irons struggle to do lib of mazcab cos of issues finding groups and getting strong enough to do the raids.

Teci is a reward from raids and pickpocketing gobie scavangers and is used to buy multiple powerful codexes.

Therefore the main way irons get the codexes is through pickpocketing teci, which has become significantly worse and with a higher barrier to entry this week. Hence, lots of ppl were grinding it out in the last couple of weeks.

[lofty mesa]

ah i see, thank you

[dawn nexus]

Tier 70 magic spell locked behind a raid crazy lmao

[sage atlas]

I see once again jagex came in and fixed something that wasn't broken and made it worse. If they were worried about the high level pickpocketing, they could have nerfed the xp, nerfed the drops, but making it all around a significantly worse is not the way to do it

[keen hull]

Shouldn't there have been details on the chest changes? Or is it literally still the same loot?

[untold sierra]

why are people playing afk with the game muted?

[lethal jasper]

What's aslo crazy, is we have a great high intensity place for thieving, chest. They just appear to be neglected

[west arch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1r6f156/thieving_rebalance_feedback_thread/

[dawn nexus]

O.O

[hard pumice]

For the remote workers it's nice to not be distracted for a whole 15 minutes.

[whole shore]

why cant they add clock to be movable

[small topaz]

I think there's room for 15 minute AFK on super low level thieving targets. If you're 50 levels higher than your target you should be able to indefinitely AFK for the miniscule amounts of XP/GP they give.

I think a lot of people are hoping that they'll still be able to AFK good targets like Archeologists, Menaphite Guards, Vyres, which just isn't realistic for the health of the game, but surely what is the harm in being able to AFK pickpocket a man for 15 minutes straight?

[hardy ferry]

I don't even care about 15 minute AFK. But you should be able to know how long you can pickpocket them for and it should at least be as long as the difficult to get buff of Crystal Mask+Light Form.

[hard pumice]

I Just want to do my day-job work, afk without being bothered for 15m. Crystal mask even sucks in my opinion

Make mask 15minutes and enough for 100% chance, lightform upkeep is absurd

Nerf the gold drop amount down to 20%, no one thieves for the coins

[sage atlas]

Crystal mask specifically requires literal 80 in like 7 skills, and as an iron also requires 89 crafting. Not to mentioned all the other quests and the time it takes to do them, plus the kudos

[wintry mulch]

When it comes to elf pickpocketing, do you really not get caught if you switch targets after 1.5 minutes or so?

[ocean kraken]

Hey guys
Jagex has created a thread to leave feedback on the issues! #1473001973551857839

[hard pumice]

Exactly, that's why needing lighform is ridiculous

[final ember]

:/ was really hoping to see aura proposal today

[hard pumice]

I don't have reddit

[wintry mulch]

It's a Discord thread, not Reddit, click it to read

[small basalt]

I am now more disappointed about aura blog being delayed (twice) now. 'tis what 'tis

[ocean kraken]

Make sure to check out the dedicated feedback thread

#1473001973551857839

[misty grail]

I very much appreciate the update to our afk feedback and look forward to seeing what you say tomorrow

[bold citrus]

Since thieving has its own post now bringing up Agility again. Gnome course should be bumped up to lvl 10-15 to sit between burthorpe and the next course. Both at lvl 1 and basically same xp rate is pointless, especially since the gnome course is more out of the way

[strong sonnet]

The exact numbers aren't the point. The point is that you're assuming you need 100% uptime/efficiency to do pickpocketing. That's not necessary at all, if you wanna afk you can just do what I suggested and you'll pickpocket for about 2-3 minutes, go afk and restart after chilling for 1-2 minutes, change those numbers however you like but you can get 50-80% of max efficiency pickpocketing by not paying attention.

[hidden isle]

I wish they would stick to their guns on nerfing minimal-input gameplay. It's not a very meaningful or memorable game when I'm not actively playing it

[tawny estuary]

Agility needs to give xp when using a heart rate monitor irl. Going to the gym irl and doing some cardio should be the best agility xp in game. Even if 95% of players found a way to cheat the system it would still be the best update for players health ever done. Then make agility courses in game more afk.

[twilit marlin]

I tried pickpocketing priff elves without any bonuses at 114 thieving, and i was not immediately caught Some of the changes made today are good

That being said, there are many people with life situations that do play runescape specifically because there are AFK and active options. The feedback from the communnity in this thread and others has polarizing feedback from many different perspectives. Lets remember that everybody here is a human being, and we should treat each other with respect, and not gatekeep how other scapers find enjoyment out of runescape.

[pallid iron]

It may have been an outlier, I WAS pickpocketing but I stopped for about 1 minute to get the stop watch up so I’m not sure if the internal “tracker” or whatever it is tracks successful pickpockets until failure, etc. but after I started the timer and reclicked the NPC that’s what I got.

[wintry mulch]

1m 23s to get caught on a wizzy tower mage with no boosting items

[last patio]

Yes, when I am answering my emails or doing some other related work activities, I should not worry about clicking every 30 seconds. Active players can be rewarded by changing target, but dont take away the AFK times. 5 min should be "okay"

[abstract snow]

do master farmers not give starbloom seeds anymore?

because if so that really sucks

[candid marten]

on the patch notes, it's not listed as a drop at least

[cunning basalt]

Reclicking the same NPC wouldn't reset the chance from what I currently understand so that may have been it, the system is currently reset when you get stunned or choose a new target

[candid marten]

i agree with the change people are proposing to make the gnome stronghold agility course at a higher xp rate and unlocked maybe around like level 10.

i think new players are more likely going find out about the burthorpe course and just use that. the gnome one is out of the way and harder to get to the first time
also there's a huge gap in courses that are unlocked between 1 and 20

[abstract snow]

😭 i'm never getting masterwork mage am i

[sour hearth]

any idea why the doors in thieving guild just say 'nothing interesting happens?'

[small topaz]

Bugged, they were working on it

[vague garnet]

having to choose a new target for it to reset feels unintuitive
makes sense, but very opaque to notice this having impact

[pallid iron]

That’s what I figured! The first one can be ignored then, but the others are genuine timings of how long it took before getting caught with the aforementioned buffs.

[jovial valley]

I don’t understand why jagex feels like some skills are ok to afk but others are especially with an active and non active option. Heists and safecracking should be higher exp rates for active playing but don’t remove the afk of thief aka pickpocket. At fishing hub you can do jellies and sailfish for active exp rates or just chill and do like ghostly soles or even swarm fishing for afk methods. If you didn’t want afk to exist why have spirit attraction? Archeology rewards you for active play following sprites, and if you don’t you get reduced rates. Thieving with pickpockets “forces” you to be active. Reduce rates or rewards if that is the man cause but don’t reduce the fact that it’s an option for people to afk. Trees can afk and use relic to burn logs so you don’t fill up inv space for reduce rates or play actively and follow the thing on the eternal trees.

Lots of active and afk options but at least afk doesn’t force you to play actively. The biggest issue is that at 5.8 I don’t care about exp rates. I just want to afk something on the side. You let people afk farm mobs but I can’t afk pickpocket? Cmon make it make sense. You can punish those that prefer afk but don’t force the to do something actively if there’s options for afk in other skills.

Please don’t make the road to restoration become road to restoration of making RuneScape worse. It was bad before with mtx, you removed it and now you’re trying to make it bad by doing dumb stuff and ruining players experience in the game

[short jackal]

Might be a tiny bit heavy handed on the change.
But generally. Good xp rates require effort. As it was before you could get millions of xp with a single click.

[fair stream]

they should have just nerfed pickpocketting xp by 75% and drops by like 40-50% and then let us afk for the full 15 minutes

[jovial valley]

I agree good rates require effort, which is why I said nerf the exp rates to make it better. But you can’t tell me removing afk ability is the answer. You can easily afk combat and even do bosses afk and make tons of money and honestly get lots of exp as well and click once ever 15 minutes. At the very least don’t make stun unavoidable or make my character stop forcing active playing. If I don’t use Excalibur or other methods to heal then I die and that can create something to deter full afk if that’s what they want but forcing a style of play when they talk about allowing players to choose what they do isn’t the answer

[cedar moss]

Pickpocketing chance starts at %75 and goes up 1% per level over; 1.5% per level for targets that require level 100+. But does it max at 100% or does it go over? 45 levels over a level 65 target gets you to 110% with 10 guaranteed picks before it starts to degrade? or no?

[short jackal]

Combat requires imput. resources, food, potions, equipment durability/charge. Even afk.
The afk theiving require at most 1 crystal mask cast per 5 min.

[cedar moss]

And that's only for anything over level 103 if you're already 120
If 100% is the cap that is

[short jackal]

Yes you can opt for no potions and non degradeable gear. But then you're giving up xp rates and kills an hour.

Not to mention ammo/runes needed to use the mage and ranged weapons adds up

[jovial valley]

Thieving requires input and resources too, runes to cast crystal mask, prayer restore if you don’t have enchanted gote. You can easily set up afk pvm with reservoir and necro and afk for longer with minimal input and make more.

[tired tinsel]

you need the quests and associated skills to even get those perks/relics/augmentables to start with too. input is way more than combat. and cheeky monkeyis premier only

[untold sierra]

...hey, quick question, what's the 1mil xp an hour afk combat method again?

[last patio]

And the effort we put into obtaining Crystal Mask and Light Form, the time investment, the costs to unlock them, and the costs to use them should not be ignored.

I strongly believe that Crystal Mask should never have been nerfed. It is a well-earned reward. Players worked hard to reach that point, and it represents meaningful progression. Along the way, we grow and we develop as characters. This is one of the unlocks that make us stand out to early gamers.

Let’s also not forget that Jagex actively promoted 15-minute AFK methods back in November 2023. Now the direction seems to be shifting. If that new direction benefits the long-term growth of RS3, I genuinely support that. Growth and improvement are important.

But please, don’t nerf hard-earned rewards. And don’t make the mistake of rushing sweeping changes within a couple of weeks under the banner of early game balancing. Leave mid- and end-game rewards alone. Those are milestones players grind for, and they should retain their value.

[tropic ice]

Does re-clicking the pickpocket option count as switching targets, or does it actually have to be a different NPC?

[jovial valley]

Can we also talk about why we play test combat updates with beta but big changes to other core parts of the game ie skilling questing and clues we just roll out the update without any input or testing beforehand ?

[jovial valley]

New target is pretty sure

[cedar moss]

I.E. Big changes that were talked about a month ago with plenty of feedback already

[rapid sonnet]

It seems to go over 100%? I spent about 3 minutes between getting caught at master farmers (38 theiving req) and about 1 minute 30s at paladins (70 thieving req)
while at 94 thieving with prif camo set (still 2 pieces away from master)

[cedar moss]

Also, balancing out issues shouldn't need player feedback. It's not the player's job to determine how the game should be played, it's the devs'

[abstract snow]

can i just say, jagex, you seem to be really rushing to push changes out
please don't rush anything
i don't know where the "weekly update" thing started but like, it's okay if the weekly update is just bugfixes and patches
you don't need to try and push big content changes every 7 days

[cedar moss]

Thieving a man rn and it's gone on for a lot longer

Imagine there was a duping exploit but players wanted it to stay, so Jagex just left it in

RS3 is obviously not made to be an afk game primarily

[royal trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/social-credit-credit-social-уважение-плюс-уважение-gif-1626328442317885176

[cedar moss]

elder and eternal magic trees last 5 minutse. So Thieving is lining up with that. Looks like afk methods are going to be capped around 5 minutes

[royal trellis]

I think all of these changes have their heart in the right place; though I do think it's somewhat of a mistake to bring back focus on PvP via the wildy altar.

[rapid sonnet]

massively outleveling a target, and various quest and skill buffs are nerfed, but... thieving against a relatively equal target does feel buffed compared to before, especially without use of those buffs from stuff outside of thieving.
I'm not going through 3 strikes in 1-3 minutes at priff elves with basic gear anymore, and I can actually pickpocket crux equa knights

[analog slate]

Uh oh,

[royal trellis]

I also think the change in thieving needs a bit more deliberation.

[analog slate]

https://tenor.com/view/troy-community-room-fire-pizza-gif-5612111

[royal trellis]

Going from your current hp to your max hp is already quite a large nerf. Combined with everything else, it seems suffocating.

[nimble bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/jon-stewart-eat-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-12567454887078541885

[silent river]

Just a quick note to those who have feedback on thieving, it might be better to put it in #1473001973551857839, which is more focused on further tweaking of the thieving part of the update

[analog slate]

Abh that seems more appropriate

[rapid sonnet]

ah, I missed that thread, thanks

[last patio]

I think that is the biggest problem, "without buffs" it feels buffed. But yesterday I was at the 118 vyre spot AFK'ing 5 minutes with all unlocks, today 1 min. But the people without unlocks are feeling "buffed"

[royal trellis]

Thank you.

[sage atlas]

Thieving never should have been touched this update to begin with, this had nothing to do with low level rebalancing

[tropic ice]

Yeah, I just saw Mod Azanna's comment.

[untold sierra]

...it had a LOT to do with low level rebalancing in fact

[vale wharf]

did you check the second option? I beleive these doors must be picklocked to open.

[ocean kraken]

there's also this thing Mod Azanna mentioned @chrome perch

[sharp scroll]

The women and men HAM should have stayed the way they are, in terms of loot. They can still have the same thieving level. Women should have salvages while men produce regular armor/weapons as listed in the post.
Currently, with this update, the player's inventory is filled within 3 seconds of pickpocketing due to double/triple/quad chances of loot. The thieving cape perk helps this burden. It is going to be a "drop" items every 3 seconds or dissemble (if you have invention unlocked) but either way. There is only 3-5seconds of pickpocketing HAMS with their loot table. (Edited for some clairty)

[fickle sundial]

I remember HAM men and women being pickpocketable at same level was part of diversity&inclusion update in OSRS.

[burnt apex]

Logout timer is not really a problem for afk doesnt osrs have 15 min too ?

[cedar moss]

They did change that one. No longer requires skull and the multiplier is based on wilderness diary tier. But I agree

[royal trellis]

That's good to hear, and ty for the update as I genuinely did not realise.

[whole shore]

its 25 min i believe in osrs

[cedar moss]

can go up to 30 minutes

[drowsy echo]

Thieving feels so good rn; went from 46 to 52 on master farmers and got my farm runs set for the next few weeks

[vast parrot]

This is basically exactly how i feel as a new player. Ive been playing all day every day for a few weeks, and this update drops and it just kinda killed my vibe. Played for less than an hour today. I need to train hunter and prayer and theyre both significantly slower and more annoying now

Was hoping there would be rebalancing, not just huge nerfs

[sage atlas]

This is my exact sentiment as well, you get most new players at the recommendation of existing players, and if your taking away the ladder, its hard for old players to want to recommend to new ones

[vast parrot]

Coming from osrs, training prayer early on was slower even before the changes today than osrs, now theyre much slower. People coming over from osrs dont want the game slowed down. They want skill progression to feel good, aka like mining and smithing, and for some skills to be sped up honestly

[silent river]

I'm assuming it's the change to the chaos altar which makes prayer training slower?

[trail halo]

tbf alters are the slow way anyway

[somber sundial]

Powder of burials is untouched

[vast parrot]

That for sure. The chaos altar on osrs is 350% and 50% chance to save your bones. Adding that to diaries would have been better imo.

[trail halo]

^^

[silent river]

Ah

[short jackal]

Burial powder and poh altar are unchanged

[silent river]

I guess Wildy in OSRS is a bit more dangerous, though?

[vast parrot]

Powder of burials isnt an early game accessible method

[somber sundial]

Yea but you can get griefed on osrs

[short jackal]

Plus chaos altar on os is multicombat pvp. The power is weighed against the risk

[vast parrot]

For sure. But osrs is a slower game as well. I dont see the reason to change things like this

[somber sundial]

For ironman sure

[short jackal]

It invalidates poh altar and every other altar in the game

[vast parrot]

Letting you offer to all altars is a really cool change for really early game irons, but after youre a few days into the game it really slows down

[short jackal]

I see no reason to let everyone have accsess to end game prayer rates right off the bat.

[vast parrot]

Arent end game prayer rates vyres?

[somber sundial]

For everybody but irons, powder of burials is still meta for 1-99

[small basalt]

scatterburying with burial powder & it isn't close

[short jackal]

Most people will just buy powder or use a poh altar now so its not much of a change.
And no, irons dont count. You chose the game mode of your own free will.

[vast parrot]

Irons are a part of the game, saying we dont count is just ridiculous.

[small basalt]

Irons are still capable of collecting powders, bones & ashes though. It just takes more time

[short jackal]

Im saying you shouldent expect special treatment. The entire point of ironman mode is to make the game harder.
You knew that when you selected the game mode

[vast parrot]

Nobody plays iron for the game to be more frustrating and harder, we play it because it lets you be self sufficient to a degree. It is not to make the game harder.

[silent river]

Approximately how long does it take to level on the levels you are on now with the new rates, btw? Just to get an idea of how it is

[short jackal]

Then just, play a main and be self sufficient.
ironman was spesificly added as a harder game mode.

[vast parrot]

I dont have a time, i ran out of bones today, but its very noticeable without the diaries done

[silent river]

Ah

[kindred sand]

The whole point of irons to be entirely self sufficient, which means everything is slower and more tedious.

[vast parrot]

Sure, but that doesn't mean youre picking the game for difficulty, its for self sufficiency. A healthy game for irons is very healthy for mains as well

[short jackal]

Not entirely. Yes many changes for irons will also benifit mains.
But changes made with only irons in mind can damage the wider game as a whole as well.
Making everything easy and frictionless wether through supply drops, stupidly easy training methods, or whatever else can and will hurt the game.
As it is. Prayer is one of the few skills that a fresh player, iron or not, can blitz through with just a day or two of play.

Some level of friction is good. It just needs to strike that ballence of not op but not snore fest tedious

[vast parrot]

I agree, and i dont think that the old altar was op at all

[short jackal]

It gave the same boost that you would normally need 90 hunter or 85 construction to get.

At no cost at all.

And unlike osrs. Theres no risk involved. No threat of pkers. No reason not to use it.

It made any other prayer training method obsolete. Cause why train up to get the other boosts when you can just go to the chaos altar and get the same thing for not cost.

Theres a reason those altars dont work durring dxp.

[vast parrot]

While there is technically risk in osrs, its barely at all. Ive lost maybe an inventory of bones all yhe way to 84 prayer in osrs. I get what youre saying, but it feels absolutely terrible for your xp to be cut so heavily without investing into burial powder, which is fairly high end, and hunter xp rates were also crushed at the same time. Might just be an iron problem but thats a large playerbase

[cyan hedge]

the vibe I have gotten are the people happy with the thieving nerfs seem to be people who already abused afk thieving for years

[vast parrot]

I think thieving needed to be looked at, but like all the nerfs, just seems so heavy handed

[short jackal]

It is absolutely mostly an iron problem.
I get not wanting to "waste" ashes and bones. But think of it this way.
Is there any other skill that lets you use any matereal to train and gives a 250% xp boost at level one with no extra imput?

[cyan hedge]

When easier and fairer alternatives were thought up in the minutes following the release (stamina, lower xp and rewards etc) it blows my mind that this got into the live game before a dev discussion internally shot it down.

I think they need to have a few jmods level to 120 under the new system before releasing it, see if they actually think it is good for the game

[wet niche]

My god. Don’t look at Reddit comments. People are ready to jump off a ledge because they can’t get 1m+ xp/hr with 4 clicks.

[vast parrot]

I think the devs are in a rush to push all of these changes out because they got rid of a ton of their mtx income

[cyan hedge]

its bad. stop defending bad updates.

[vast parrot]

But you know what will bring players over more? Plugins being rushed instead. Ive talked to dozens of people that are waiting for plugins to try the game

[cyan hedge]

They are trying to make this big content push post mtx removal to ride the wave of goodwill and draw in players.

But these nerfs just hurt the current playerbase and new players who now will never unlock these endgame thieving methods that older players had for years

[short jackal]

Many of these "ladders" that are being pulled up where created because of mtx and poor choices.
People are guna be mad that they cant use the op stuff. But thats just how it is now.
Its how the devs want the game.

[cyan hedge]

The dev direction is wrong, and the long history of jagex vs the community shows that.

They were so bad at ignoring player feedback that they had to relaunch an older version of the game....

[vast parrot]

Going from runelite to rs3 is quite the shock. Thats what should be a focus, not omega nerfing some skilling. Theres so many things they could have done. They didnt touch the horrendous early game skilling. Fishing trout is still the best xp for a long, long time, same as it was 20 fucking years ago

Didnt touch is the wrong wording, they mostly nerfed early game skilling outside of pickpocketing

[short jackal]

Im inclined to believe the devs that have been listening to community feedback over the past year. Thats what the surveys where. Thats why the aura blog was delayed. Thats why the combat beta exists.
Because they listened to what people are saying about the game.

[candid marten]

it's also why two of the updates coming out soon were also delayed. because there were issues and people felt like the updates were being rushed

[short jackal]

Yes there was a history of ignoring feedback. yes it sucked.
But you cant tell me that the past six months hasent been brought on by listening and replying to the comunity.

[cyan hedge]

then why didnt they wait to release the nerfs and take on the feedback instead of pushing ahead?

[candid marten]

it's also incredibly hard to "listen" to the community when every single person has opposing opinions it seems
on top of that, not every player is vocal. they take in feed back not just from what we say, but how we play the game

[cyan hedge]

How about all the fixes they have promised for years but not completed? Why not fix those first before pulling the ladder up on new players. Why the rush to release bad updates?

[vast parrot]

Nerfs are fine if they redirect xp into other parts of the game
They very very slightly did that with hunter

[short jackal]

Because they cant get accurate feedback unless people can get there hands on the content that changed.

[cyan hedge]

They can play test it and open the testing up to the players like the old days, instead of pushing to the live game every time they get a half finished idea?

[wet niche]

The afkness is, for sure. But either way comments like “this is why no one trusts jagex” or “updates like this will kill the game” are ridiculous. They already said they’re gonna try to reupdate on Thursday.

[cyan hedge]

Or, they can poll us? Works pretty good for osrs

[silent river]

Well, you might not get the most healthy outcome by polling xp rates...

[candid marten]

from what i've seen, the only problem with today's update was pickpocketing
which mod azanna earlier here said that people shouldn't be getting only 2 minutes of afk time on level 1 men while having full bis and called it a bug
so part of today's problem sounds like a bug

on top of that, sometimes you just can't know if a change is good or not until players actually try it

[silent river]

Sometimes op methods have to be nerfed. I can agree that the thieving changes does seem heavy-handed, though

[vast parrot]

Or instead of nerfing xp heavily, nerf, whirligigs for example a bit, because yes they were too much, and buff other rates surrounding it to be competitive. As something as active as whirligigs, it should be the best. Just not bu as much as it was

[candid marten]

isn't this literally what they did with hunter?