Road to Restoration - Re-grounding Outfits & Equipment

[cold remnant]

It just feels weirder to be more concerned with what other people wear in Runescape compared to other MMOs or single player RPGS.

[cold oasis]

idk, wow can be 100% single player

[pulsar drift]

It can be but you're then locked out of huge chunks of content. RS there's very very little content you can't do if 100% solo

[soft bear]

sure but it's a very vapid single player game - its systems exist largely to encourage player interaction, competition and cooperation, whereas RS' design roots are essentially in CRPGs (and point and click adventure games)

[cold remnant]

Runescape being a browser game with low required specs for so long definitely had a hand in gameplay direction being different as well.

[rugged tapir]

Notably when we have toggles now too

[woven glade]

I wish every multiplayer game had cosmetic toggles given how wild skins have become

[cold remnant]

Yeah. Like for instance I don't mind wings in the game (for the most part, some absolutely could have their particles reduced) but I wouldn't mind a wing visibility toggle for the people that dislike them. That's the sort of thing I've always been fine with.

[rugged tapir]

yeah, like I don't like this guys head option, just a dude chillin in max guild minding his own bizz. But, I don't mind seeing it and it doesn't effect me. But if he wants to play like this, I'm all for it. If it really gets to ppl we got the toggles

[forest onyx]

wasn't it specifically a wing toggle that they showed in one of those update or roadmap videos? swear watched them literally dissolve the wings off someone as the example haha EDIT for the cosmetic toggles i mean. and none of the other cosmetics changed besides the wings erased

[soft bear]

idk to me you're just saying 'I'm not capable of understanding the issue'

[rugged tapir]

This toward me, Panda, or seeEmpunk?

[soft bear]

you/ketchup; I've honestly been surprised to see so many people who can't see what to me is unbelievably obvious - that some stuff just doesn't fit at all in RS. all that's been tackled in the blog post is the absolute worst offenders which to my mind there is absolutely no reasonable argument to be had about; the argument should be how much further deletions need to go.

tbh I'm of the view that people wearing that bunny mask are generally doing so with the sole intention to disrupt/grief - it's incredibly toxic behaviour

[late pumice]

Could you explain a bit more on how you see that as someone trying to disrupt or grief? I'm not understanding that view point myself.

[pulsar drift]

I kinda see it in the sense that it's an overly large cosmetic and it doesn't actually fit in at all with any of the rest of the outfit.
Either the aim is to make something horribly clashing or to just utilize an obnoxious item (Or they're a furry ig)

[late pumice]

If it had a ton of particles or something to that effect I could see that. But to me, if I seen this person in-game, I would just think they like the bunny head and wanted it as a cosmetic.

[dawn sparrow]

The new fishing outfit is ridiculous. Looks like a firefighter.

[tawny bison]

I'm sure this has already been posted, but imo any skill related outfit should.match it's associated skillcape colours (and/or the inverted counterpart)

[pulsar drift]

It's literally the outfit that the Fishermen in game use, other than the recolouring of it - and personally I'm not a fan of the recolouring (And the red/gold theme for all elite skilling outfits)

[dawn sparrow]

Are they removing the grind it takes to get the pieces? It takes 3x5 pieces to get the master outfit. From what I read it's just gonna be 5 now. That's not right for the master outfit.

[late pumice]

Whatever they decide to do with elite outfits, I really do hope they aren't all the same colors. That would just be boring.

[pulsar drift]

We don't know if/what rebalancing is being done for it - it might be just that the outfit costs the full amount of shards as it did before, but no intermediary steps (Seems unlikely tho imo)

[ruby yew]

Its crazy that ppl actually Care about this shit 😂 removing Shit Like shark Outfit is great, it Looks ugly af

[rugged tapir]

We may have fundamentally different views as to what runescape is. Two things can be true at once. You're view can be true, so can mine, and so can many others' views we may not fully agree with.

For me a very important part of rs has been it's silly nature and silly humor and cosmetics like the chicken costume and such, as well as the ability to play YOUR way, be who you want to be. Imo, some of the cosmetics we have now are modern versions of the past. The game is over 25 years and that's crazy, it has been said many times before and the community is vast. The players of this game aren't all like us and that's okay because they're all playing this game and love it too.

I know ppl don't like seeing some things, heck i still wish i could change the brown ui! So i assume that's how some ppl feel when they see big bunny heads and such.

Still, I don't think the first thing we should think of is people trying to grief when we see a big bunny heads or wings. Some people just like that. The toggles are now here to help ppl who don't like seeing those things.

[soft bear]

it's plainly outlandish and distracting, I don't think anyone doesn't realise that those are its core features; I think you can only conclude that people using it are doing so with the intention of looking outlandish and distracting others (i.e. with the aim of interfering with the gameplay experience of others, rahter than benefiting their own)

edit: to be clear I'm specifically talking about the bunny mask and not other items with this

[tawny bison]

I support some degrees of silliness sure, the rubber chicken being a good classic example, but there is a line that can be crossed that results in a lack of believability or feeling right in the world.

For cosmetics, go nuts I guess. I disable those as I prefer feeling immersed in the world, that typically doesn't happen if I see someone fighting a dragon wearing a rabbit head.

[soft bear]

yeah I think this is trying to make the game into something that it's just not - there's extensive discussion in this thread about the nature of 'Runescape silliness', and it's not just 'any and all things you might think are silly'. RS has also been about playing 'your way' but only within the confines of its internal logic and ruleset. It is absolutely not roblox, or minecraft, or something which is about moulding the game into exactly what you want it to be - it had long had clear design principles for visual coherence which were only broken in the name of selling outfits to people for irl gp. I think to suggest otherwise is deliberately simplifying in a way as to say something which supports your position, and which is superficially true but really breaks down completely under examination

[pulsar tusk]

On another note. Can we make staffs single handed weapons again please. Coming from a legacy only player 🙂

I loved to rock farseer kiteshield with chaotic staff or staff of light with an arcane spirit shield. Legacy vs eoc is in any case an unfair battle, castle wars has learned me that for sure. Will not be op.

[jaunty relic]

Regrounding just sounds like turning the game into a more conservative route. Might as well just remove all LGBTQ pride and rainbow stuff because now people aren't happy seeing others minding their own business wearing whatever they want.

[rugged tapir]

I understand your view. I really do. Tbh, i think we agree about lot too. Like I said before too, these things may be runescape to other people even tho they may not be runescape to you in me

For example, that bunny mask is exactly how the Easter bunny looks like in the game. Does that have to do with anything mtx. I don't think so? but I could be wrong

Further, some people just want to play the way they want to play. As long as they're not hurting anybody, i think it's fine. The toggles allow for people who don't like some things to not see them.

[clever crow]

Toggle doesnt work, i shouldnt disable every player cosmetics because of this guy

Fix the one problematic thing, not everyone else, thats what they are doing

Free the game from obnoxious items so players doesnt have to disable every cosmetics in the game instead is the goal

Because right now your solution to the problematic is : disable and prevent yourself from seeing any cosmetic because of 12 bad items.

[cold remnant]

I mean having hats made out of jagged paper that are impossible to remake and worth more than super powerful weapons created from powerful forces of nature is obnoxious and distracting but we know they're never touching party hats.

[clever crow]

Anyway, its obvious people will NEVER agree on this subject, its kinda pointless. Only jagex can decide what fits the decide of their game

[blissful compass]

have you tried using shears on a chef's hat?

[cold remnant]

But honestly assuming someone is for instance using a holiday item outside of a holiday (or a piece of a costume outside of the context of the costume) is intentionally trolling is unhealthy. I imagine some do, but most of the time you see that in MMOs it's usually someone just trying to make randos laugh or smile because it's unexpected. Like don't get me wrong, there's the occasional mix of like 5 different outfits/costumes and jas hands, but even those aren't necessarily someone trying to ruin other people's time. Some people are just the class clown types.

[cold remnant]

Masterwork party hats when? /j

[onyx mauve]

alternate solution: deal with seeing things you dislike

[clever crow]

Thats as valid as saying : deal with them removing things people dislike

And as valid as saying : go play another game then. The same can be said about people mad about losing a handful of obnoxious cosmetics

"alternate solution : deal with them removing things"

[onyx mauve]

nah
not the same

[clever crow]

Its the same

But again, players that want them out of the game VS players that wants these items will never agree so theres really no point arguing

[rugged tapir]

This is basically saying my way or the highway. The toggles are the middle ground.

[dawn sparrow]

I think they should do the polls on outfit styles. Best ones get picked.

[clever crow]

I would also suggest you guys check the Fashionscapers discord, and check the majority of outfits posted in there, so you can see how even in the cosmetic fashionscape community, only rare/few people use wings/obnoxious items

[remote adder]

April Fool's calls for noxious weaponry, but twice as big. Obnoxious Scythe anyone?

[clever crow]

Even in the fashion/cosmetic runescape community wings and non human overrides are unpopular

[cold remnant]

That's not relevant to me. I don't use them much but I like having the option to use them.

[undone siren]

anyone saying "they should just turn the stuff people don't like into overrides" didn't look at the roadmap closely enough

[cold remnant]

Oh I saw it, that's part of why I came on here to talk about it.

[undone siren]

they're literally going to do the same visual changing stuff to overrides right after they're done with the items lol

[woven glade]

I don't think overrides will be held to as strict a standard as normal items

Clearly some overrides should be addressed either way. Jas hands, sakadagami trousers.

[clever crow]

I hope

[cold remnant]

Probably not. But we don't know the extent of what they're planning with them yet.

[woven glade]

https://runescape.wiki/images/Sakadagami_outfit_equipped_(male).gif?2d11d

[clever crow]

Disgusting + obnoxious

[cold remnant]

Jas hands would be better as part of an emote. They're not really something almost anyone has actually wanted to put into a costume unless it's specifically a "as many non-matching stuff as possible" one. Really the funniest part of it is the pun.

[undone siren]

at the very least, I hope they reduce the particle vomit on everything by like 95%

[cold remnant]

See that's what direction I thought they were going originally and then they were like "yeah idk we're just going to remove a lot of it because it's easier" in the blog post about items so who knows how much they're touching with overrides.

[woven glade]

Isn't almost nothing in the current blog removed? A handful at the end of the blog.

First we have skilling outfits being reworked. Then slayer masks being toned down. Then particle effects being toned down.

[cold remnant]

It was more the "yeah we can't turn most of it into overrides because it would be too much work" which implies there's going to be a lot.

[hoary prairie]

I just realized they're changing pumpkin masks too??? Genuinely what is wrong with those???

God this is so frustrating. Leave my items alone. Some of my favorite outfits I've ever made use those awesome pumpkin masks. Who was even complaining about them?

[cold remnant]

Yeah, right?

[undone siren]

I interpreted the stuff being fully removed at the end of the article as "there's no way to rework these that would fit with our aesthetic vision while still representing the same thing"

[rugged tapir]

Pumpkin masks should have their particles reduced at best. I agree tho, they look fine to me.

[undone siren]

like any sort of headwear that would have flames spewing out from inside or around your head isn't what they want, so they're just removing the flaming heads instead of trying to make a less extreme flaming head or whatever

[hoary prairie]

Yeah I don't see an issue with reducing or outright removing certain particle effects (also idk why turning down particles in the graphics settings doesn't also reduce player outfit particles)

[cold remnant]

We're a powerful necromancer that has died before and are friends/allies of the grim reaper and this world's anubis. Like spooky slightly-offhuman cosmetics make sense.

[hoary prairie]

But outright changing the models like they're doing for the slayer masks and elite skilling outfits is so completely unnecessary and honestly just feels mean to people like me who use them for fashionscape purposes

[clever crow]

Surely its more work to change everyone of them tho

[cold remnant]

Yeah the proposed slayer mask changes baffled me personally.

[clever crow]

Every item that has particles/flames etc. Its easier to delete them than reworking them

[rugged tapir]

Yeah idk why they're going this far when osrs doesn't and that's way more popular.

[undone siren]

maybe it's necessary to not have a new player's first experience with the game being that all the players skilling around them look like they could've come out of fortnite

[rugged tapir]

Just have cosmetic toggles be off as a default

[clever crow]

Worst solution ever

[hoary prairie]

If they end up keeping the old skilling outfits as an override I'll be fine but like... where does this end? This seems like a whole can of worms and I just know players will start randomly targeting cosmetics they don't personally like for removal

[rugged tapir]

You could at least explain why you think that

[hoary prairie]

There's items and cosmetics I don't love and wouldn't wear myself but I would NEVER ask for them to be taken away from other players

[rugged tapir]

[clever crow]

Default disabling cosmetics for everyone because 8 people love obnoxious items is not it

Its not like they will remove 322 cosmetic items, the list is very short for these crazy items

I would also suggest you guys check the Fashionscapers discord, and check the majority of outfits posted in there, so you can see how even in the cosmetic fashionscape community, only rare/few people use wings/obnoxious items. Even in the fashion/cosmetic runescape community wings and non human overrides are unpopular. (Again)

[rugged tapir]

They could turn them on if they wish. Not everyone thinks the same. What's obnoxious to you or me may not be to someone else

[hoary prairie]

I've been in that discord for a very long time and I can assure you that's not accurate. Many people love doing non-human outfits.

[clever crow]

No its unpopular, litterally

[hoary prairie]

Wrong.

[clever crow]

No you are wrong outfits using it are a minority

[hoary prairie]

How long have you been in that discord? 2 days?

[cold remnant]

I don't care whether or not they're rarely used. That's not a good excuse for removing stuff from the game.

[hoary prairie]

These updates will KILL the fashionscape community. Especially if they continue down this path.

[clever crow]

What about you

[cold remnant]

Or at least kill a lot of spending on cosmetics if anything can be taken away with a couple week's notice

[clever crow]

Most of the fashionscape community want these items gone actually

[pulsar drift]

Why would they release any new cosmetics after this that don't match with their visual direction? There's 0 reason to assume after the passes to bring stuff up to scratch they'll be removing/changing anything in the future.

[cold remnant]

More removal of pre-existing cosmetics. Or enough people changing their mind or reacting negatively to new cosmetics that jagex didn't expect backlash on.

[hoary prairie]

You literally have zero evidence for that, how can you say that with such certainty? Show me a poll. Right now. You are taking your own personal opinions and projecting them onto a whole community

[shy path]

Let's not speak for whole communities. If people share the same opinions, they can come here and voice them

[clever crow]

The evidence is scrolling through all the oufits for years and seeing its a minority that use them ? You can do it right now if you want

[hoary prairie]

Quite frankly I don't care if there are items that literally only 1 single player in the entire game uses. They should not be deleted. Ever.

[cold remnant]

Thank you.

[clever crow]

You are in the discord so i dont need to screenshot everything to you you can see it with your own eyes

[hoary prairie]

I see plenty of people using wings and other non-human items in-game. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.

[hot skiff]

right click player and disable cosmetics (that way if u hate something, u hide it, but then you can see the cosmetics you like or aren't distracting - wonder if they could do that (can be or even disable animations for like particles and moving cosmetics

[cold remnant]

I was just theiving with randos and 4/5 of them had nonhuman cosmetics and/or wings on. Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.

[wintry whale]

It really doesn't matter what an entire community of fashionistas want or don't want, the point is an update that removes an entire group of items that clearly no small number of people like using alienates a chunk of people. It wouldn't matter if the amount of people that like the items is 30%, that's 30% of an already kinda small community since RS has a low amount of players compared to other MMOs. It's a dumb decision to alienate a community you've fostered since cosmetics first became a thing just because the cosmetics are non-human, especially when there are far more egregious problems in the game mechanic wise, and visual wise there's tons of examples not even including outfits that are not medieval theme whatsoever. This is a big case of cherry-picking for a vocal group of people who complained about cosmetics, when it really doesn't matter. Everyone has their own taste of fashion. Everyone. If you ostracize people for their fashion choices in a video game that's claiming to put player choices first and not want to mess with free expression, that's a problem

[clever crow]

Theres not plenty , i dont know why you are lying because right now if you go in the male category, you need to scroll up to january 11 to find a person with wings ?

[hoary prairie]

That's not even that long ago when you consider how long that server has been around

[cinder haven]

Why does it matter how many people use wings? Re-grounding is about getting rid of visually intrusive and immersion breaking items, not about conforming to anyone's personal taste. This discussion is completely off-topic.

[cold remnant]

It's about catering to the tastes of people who consider them intrusvie and immersion breaking, let's not pretend it's not.

[clever crow]

Ok but theres been 70 outfits since ? How can you think its a lot of people

Like at least we need to be real about things please

[wintry whale]

Because 1. they could turn these outfits into overrides to make it still usable by people who like them. and 2. They're planning to also clean out the overrides later in the year potentially removing a lot of things people love to use and paid for.

[versed grail]

the time for the feedback of "this isn't intrusive and immersion breaking" happened last year

[hoary prairie]

Well clearly a lot of people in this thread feel like their opinion wasn't heard. If this was so unanimous then there wouldn't be 5k comments arguing about it

I don't remember being asked if I thought it was okay to outright delete or drastically change certain cosmetics

[cinder haven]

There was also an active thread these past three weeks: https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/1463570017386889358

[clever crow]

Theres 10k comments on dailyscape should we cancel deleting them?

[hoary prairie]

I haven't even looked into the dailyscape changes, been way to focused on this

[cold remnant]

Yeah and that section in the discord isn't visible by default. And that assumes you're specifically in the discord. That's not in-game.

[versed grail]

so's this.

[cold remnant]

I literally didn't have that channel on my channel list and I tried looking for channels the other day. Like this isn't the crazy theoretical. I've been subbed to the game this whole time. I've joined the discord relatively recently.

[versed grail]

so's this.

[compact crescent]

They're getting rid of fury shark because "fantasy too unrealistic " but what off holiday event items and rainbow? Infact rainbow is especially too much fantasy with the particle effects that even a lot of high level capes have.

And what does this mean about magic? Magic is extremely fantasy and unrealistic and a lot of spelling have particles

[clever crow]

Theres people against removing dailyscapes, we still need to remove them. There were people against Treasure Hunter removal we still needed to remove it. Now theres people against removing bad cosmetics and they knew it would happen, still need to go forward.

[shy path]

Guys, you are arguing in circles. It's clear you don't agree (and that's okay!), but let's not continue this.

These updates will not please everyone. There's no way to do that.

[cold remnant]

"Need" is a very strong word

[compact crescent]

We don't need tonremove dailyscape though. That's an opinion

[wintry whale]

Like lets be realistic. Absolutely realistic.
This update is catering to just 1 subset of people who hated specific cosmetics that others absolutely love.
What MMO doesn't have people that disagree on fashion? That's normal, but if you start picking sides for them then you start alienating players.
And while we can agree TH and dailyscape are harmful for the game's health, fashion isn't. RS grew on silliness and ridiculous fantasy themes and items. Soo why is this being questions now when it's fully established into the game already?

If Jagex pushes out a chunk of people because of fashion of all things it's not "for the players"
TH and Dailyscape are objective topics.

But cosmetics will always be subjective

[cold remnant]

They're trying to argue that our opinions don't matter because we didn't view some specific discord thread or didn't see whatever specific survey from months ago.

[compact crescent]

The only thing we absolutely need to actually consistency, not cherry picking removal of things based on personal preferences

[pulsar drift]

TH and Dailyscape are still pretty subjective when there's been a number of people asking for them to stay (Personally I'd like Daily Challenges to stay in some format, f.e.)

[hoary prairie]

I guess for me, gameplay changes don't really bother me. Sometimes it sucks but it's kind of whatever. But don't you dare touch my fashion, lol. Guess we'll see what happens Monday but yeah suffice to say I am not happy with this direction at all.

[wintry whale]

Asking for them to stay doesnt make it subjective.
On the health of the game, TH and Dailyscape had impacts.

Cosmetics do not. There's no game that has negative impact with cosmetics except for implementation such as pricing, P2W stats, or controversial symbolism.
Otherwise cosmetics are subjective entirely and dependent on who likes the look or doesnt

[pulsar drift]

They have an impact on the visual cohesion of the game, which is a pretty objective thing 🤷‍♂️

[compact crescent]

I hate wings and feel they never should have beeb added BUT they are in... and we were already giveb a toggle to deal with it... the problem was solved so everyone wins.... but winning isn't winning if someone isn't losing so now its "we're removing it anyway and the toggle will stay but won't be needed"

Only reason I hated wings was the non human factor for us.... I'd argue a win win was to finally give rs additional options for races, like dwarf or elf etc

[pulsar drift]

Additional race options would make near 0 sense and would reuqire a whole bunch of quests to be re-written to try and somehow shoehorn in a justification for why there's an elf randomly in Asgarnia instead of with all the other ones over in Tiranwwn.

[wintry whale]

see if there weren't other visual inconsistencies in the game, you might have a point. But we have Steampunk in a medieval game, time-locked dinosaurs, penguins that are spies and drive submarines, shapeshifting paragons that are centuries old, some as old as the planet or older, transformation emotes and items from seasonals, and a colorful bunny with machines that make candy.

someone with high woodcutting looking like a treeman is the least of our problems in a fantasy game.

[compact crescent]

Frankly I don't really see the issue

[undone siren]

and I think a lot of people are pretty sick of how modern live-service games are pivoting more towards wacky cosmetics that feel out-of-place, it's one of the most common complaints about new call of duty games for example

[compact crescent]

Holiday items.... rainbow... magical items... santa hats

[cold remnant]

That's not how races work in fantasy or real life mate.

[wintry whale]

Call of duty is grounded by realism, not fantasy. Makes more sense to complain about it there.

[pulsar drift]

It's medieval fantasy with magic
Steampunk/technology has been a thing pretty much since the start of RS, it's part of the dwarven aesthetic.
Dinosaurs? there's a lore justification for them, I see 0 issues.

"There are multiple core aesthetic choices" doesn't mean there's not visual cohesion still

[pulsar drift]

I have no idea what you mean by this. There's a whole bunch of dialogue in various quests about the player being a human being introduced to the elves and them not trusting them, or the dwarves etc. If you suddenly upend what race the PC is then none of that makes sense any more.

[compact crescent]

Don't max capes also iffend this particles justification for removal?

[undone siren]

fantasy doesn't necessarily mean a free pass for everything to be allowed in the universe

[cold remnant]

You can fix that with like 5 minutes of rewriting lines with "An elf that associates with humans" or whatever

[compact crescent]

Magic, or the gods did it sure will though

[undone siren]

in a fantasy setting, the things that don't exist are just as important to the aesthetic and vibes as the things that do

[pulsar drift]

Or you could just leave it all as it is and leave it the same as it's always been because there's no real benefit to suddenly introducing player race choice into the game after 25 years...

[compact crescent]

Hey guys..... what about the Gower Quest? Or varrock pub barman who tells the player this is a videogame?

[wintry whale]

Right, medieval fantasy with magic, so why is transmogrification farfetched when there's hundreds of other instances of transformation by the player and not by the player? What does human-like have to do with it?

Also the lore justification is time-locked still. It still doesn't make much sense.

Notice you had nothing to say about the Spy penguins with an obvious submarine, shapeshifting paragons, or the candy factories from a colorful bunny though.
Or in the past when we've had actual metal band come into the game for halloween with electric guitars playing heavy metal music.

My point is there's plenty of inconsistancies with visuals, more egregious than the cosmetics players use.

[pulsar drift]

Transmogrification for the most part limits the player from actually doing most things. The shark looks dumb so it's going away -shrug-

Lore justification is literally all that's needed? How does it not make sense when there is a whole questline which justifies how and why it's there.

Spy penguins? Cool, it's fantasy. In this fantasy world penguins are evil, I don't see what the issue with that is. No idea what you mean about the paragons, but for the most part any seasonal event I would consider to basically just be "non canon" happening.

[compact crescent]

Varrock pub barman telling the player this is a videogame and gower quest itself revealing it's all a game already easily disproves everyone concerned with "this is too unreal for game"

[wintry whale]

So why does "non-canon" get a pass in being visually ridiculous, but something like a person being able to become a shark-being or golem because of high skill level as a perk doesnt?

[pulsar drift]

Because fishing and mining aren't non-canon events?

[compact crescent]

Also elemental workshop series abruptly ends.... the missing conclusion is jarring to immersion that I always remember its a videogame

[wintry whale]

That's a strawman and you know it lol.
Especially if their entire argument and purpose is to ground the game's theme back to medieval, those are things that can still be used throughout the game regardless of it being a canon event or not. If I can see a person walk by and transform into a bunny at will for an emote, then it's still a visual inconsistency, far more silly than it being linked to a skill you're high level in

[compact crescent]

People can turn into massive visually disruptive trees too

[undone siren]

yeah but a lot of people might not enjoy a video game where the devs could just randomly decide that elves carry shotguns with no explanation and other players would justify it as "it's magic who cares"

it's important to try and stick to the "rules" and worldbuilding that have been established for decades so that players can actually feel like the world of runescape is something worth caring about and being emotionally invested in

[kindred plaza]

[Shaking Astral door]
LET ME IIIIIIIIIIIIN

[woven glade]

We're not at that point.

Elves are considered lost beyond the mountains, a historical halfway mythical thing not something seen by contemporaries.

Avianse considered an extinct species that only survived on other worlds and in GWD1.

Vyres literally cannot cross the River Salve. And so on.

Its not just changing a line here and there. Adding races would be such a massive undertaking to fix up that it shouldn't be argued as something simple. It would take more work than any update I can think of.

Its the least "5 minutes" thing I can think of. You'd have a better case in changing tick system than that.

[pulsar drift]

How is it a strawman? Things which are entirely unrelated to actual core gameplay in seasonal events which take place "outside" of the actual world are non canon and therefore have more reasonable expectation of being silly/unreasonable. They're not a core part of the gameplay experience.

Emotes/transmog toys are a bit of a weird edge case, but they're also not causing any interaction with the world at all. Fishing whilst transformed into a shark is doing that and in a space where you would reasonably expect that the game would be sticking to its actual core identity/visual theme.

[clever crow]

At the end of the day its Jagex that decide what they want for their game, change always make some people unhappy, even good change

[compact crescent]

We're not talking about a shotgun though...

And some weapons already offend that logic too. And abilities

[wintry whale]

I mean why not, we have cannons, and the hand cannon, and apparently Steam-punk style invention. it's a matter of time before we get muskets for ranged and it being "canon" to fantasy.

[pulsar drift]

We could have them and they would still fit into the game perfectly reasonably within established rules tbh.
But we don't have them and we're unlikely to have them so it's kind of a moot point?

[cold remnant]

We're not talking about the game from 20 years ago, we're talking about the game now.

[undone siren]

but we are talking about visual consistency and coherency here

[woven glade]

The game will never see the game add more playable races and acknowledge them. Cosmetics maybe, spinoffs games maybe, but never ever integrated into the game.

Anyone thinking elsewise drastically underestimate the amount of dev work it would be, no way it would be worth the return.

[pulsar drift]

So long as said shotgun was done in a Dwarvish (or Goblin ig) style of invention then it would still fit. If you just copy/pasted a double barrel from irl as the model then it would clash.

[compact crescent]

But a shotgun itself is a mechanic issue not a cosmetic issue so it doesn't work to introduce a mechanic example for cosmetic debate.

[cold remnant]

I mean I don't care either way. I'm not begging them to add playable races. But it also wouldn't be weird to me if they did, but some more outlandish ones would be a little weird.

[undone siren]

part of that is that things make sense as something that could exist in the world, and "magic exists bro" is not a good enough justification for everything being able to exist in the world

[clever crow]

They removed cogs because that was a mistake anyway they might remove more later

[woven glade]

Grounding refers to making the world feel cohesive and consistent within the outline above. Having magic with a fantasy world does not mean that just about anything goes - instead, we want to maintain that all things within Gielinor should make sense for our unique world.

• The very blog post this thread is about

[compact crescent]

Crystal shotgun... fires multiple shard pellets... don't call it shotgun.... easy

[clever crow]

Praise the blog it address exactly what they said

Thats their game they decide what makes sense in it at the end of the day

[cold remnant]

And as customers we get to express our opnions on changes/proposed changes.

[undone siren]

okay maybe a shotgun was a bad example, just pretend I said "magical tesla cybertrucks" or "replacing pubs with modern-looking coffee shops" or something, you get the idea

[clever crow]

Yes you express your oppinion here its fine, they can still go forward

[compact crescent]

The game itself addresses it... the game has evidence it's a game... unless they plan to remove gower quest and the vsrrock pub barman

[wintry whale]

I don't think you'd say that if halloween masks suddenly were removed for the same reason, or tradable rares were suddenly made untradable.

"It's their game, they decide what makes sense"
I mean to be fair halloween masks fall under the exact same criteria they're using to remove what they're removing now, like the slayer masks. Sooo. The only reason they aren't being removed is because they have value. But I guarantee large portion of the players would be singing a different tune if Hween masks were also on the chopping block

[woven glade]

Do consider that there are many other fantasy settings out there than just runescape.

LOTR, Runescape, Game of Thrones, and Elder scrolls are all (different) fantasy settings.

None of them make sense to pull out a shotgun in.

[clever crow]

Id be fine totally yes

[compact crescent]

I think the gnomes already have a close enough to a cafe type situation. And adding a tesla coil to a wagon would be a tesla cyber truck

[cold remnant]

They CAN do whatever they want. They CAN shut the game down tomorrow and focus all their development on oldschool and dragonwilds, or whatever they want. They CAN do a lot of things. People are trying to express their opinions on what they feel like are changes done in a way they dislike, or changes they feel are worse than had they not been done.

[clever crow]

Yes people expressed their oppinion on Treasure Hunter its fine you can do it

No one stops you from expressing your oppinion, but you cant avoird different oppinions also

[woven glade]

Tbh masks in general aren't considered to violate the ruleset because a dude wearing a mask is wearing a mask

I do people take the intent behind the line

Does this wearable make the player look non-human?

To somehow include things that clearly is a human dressed up

[patent falcon]

I could see the point if RS had like Sabrina Carpenter skins in it, but there's a whole bunch of in-game, even lore-relevant items that I find visually disruptive, but I've never once gone "oh this ruins my enjoyment" or "this takes me out of the world". That feels like a cynical justification from people to me.

[compact crescent]

Soo.... what stops the ability yo make a mask to a full outfit thebsame quality?

[cold remnant]

It's just exhausting when people try to conflate anything they don't like with Treasure Hunter. Not that everyone is. Many people here aren't. But it's happening enough in the community and it's exhausting.

[woven glade]

The part where it stops looking like you're dressed up as something and it starts looking like you've become something

[wintry whale]

So why are the slayer masks and helms on the chopping block to change despite being the same as the Hween mask in similar design?
Some of them are helms which are usually full-covering the head, but they apparently thinkt hat's non-human looking despite the halloween masks looking like your head is replaced with a demons head.

[clever crow]

Its part of the same integrity changes and both are made for the game health

[compact crescent]

If a person carries a barrel strapped on their torso is the barrel fake or a real barrel of those times?

[woven glade]

You telling me this look like you're wearing a mask?

[cold remnant]

Yeah and a lot of people thing removing things from the game suddenly is bad for game integrety. I can use buzzwords too.

[wintry whale]

This doesn't look like a mask either.

[compact crescent]

In the real world... actually could be plausible in real world too with the right materials...

In a magical world probably easier

[woven glade]

Fun thing, here is the chathead. Where it absolutely does show its meant to be a mask.

[compact crescent]

Proof the halliween masks are inconsistent... delete

[wintry whale]

Yet they're changing this

[compact crescent]

Are they? How? Fixing chathead or putting holes in the full visual?

[woven glade]

Also they released in rs classic as being very mask like. It was unironically a bit messed up in translation into RS2 if anything.

[mellow zealot]

fiora cooking rn i cant lie

[pulsar drift]

Tbh the new oner just general looks better. Altho I feel like it should be even darker in colouring. It's more of an actual mask instead of a head replacement

[woven glade]

Second is far more in line with how runescape's history of doing masks and cosmetics.

Its far more true to the game than the former.

[mellow zealot]

lotta bros here shud jus go back to osrs frfrfr

[woven glade]

Rsclassic halloween mask lmao

[wintry whale]

You only see chathead in dialog with NPCs you dont see it on players. So this is irrelevant.

The point is they're changing stuff that can be plausible in the game

[hot star]

i suspect tradeable rares are off limits for historical reasons

[undone siren]

Yeah a lot of the old stuff just didn’t translate well to RS2/RS3, they worked well in the older graphics but didn’t get enough work to make them fit the same way in the newer graphics

[wintry whale]

It's not based on historical I guarantee it. It's because they know everyone who owns them will be pissed

[woven glade]

That is true. They got changed in rs2 conversion, then never really touched upon again and now exist in a weird space where they don't fit the artstyle but we can't really change them.

[compact crescent]

"Consistency " is a bad argument if you can't use it.... Consistently

[woven glade]

I have zero issues with changing the halloween masks if that what you're asking.

[compact crescent]

Jagex should do a tradeable rare buy back scheme then

[hot star]

seemingly anybody who owns anything currently being changed is pissed, so that's not exclusive to those rares

[clever crow]

True

I mean most people owning elite skilling outfits are not pissed with the changes tho

[woven glade]

I think I own close to if not everything in the blog and I couldn't be happier

[hot star]

my issue is that they're taking outfits that look like they were made in 2015 and changing them to outfits that look like they were made in 2006, i don't really have any qualms with the changes past that

[clever crow]

So are a lot of people apparently

[versed grail]

yes

[wintry whale]

what I mean by that is. You take something like Hween masks that are worth more ingame money than the game will let you trade in 1 trade, and you'll see a large pool of veterans leave the game
It's probably why the masks have only gotten a chathead update for graphics, not an actual update. A lot of people would be ready to drop the game because of those rares.
You might see people quit over these current changes, but most people are just gonna complain and stop using them or cover them up. But the rares might actually cause a nuke to go off.

[clever crow]

This is my biggest issue too

[patent falcon]

Most people who own elite skilling outfits are pissed with the changes, if we're just throwing out statements without proof

[woven glade]

Ironically the chathead is closer to the original rs classic look than the non-chathead version.

And closer to how runescape always tended to do costumes.

[clever crow]

The proofs are the surveys they did tho, and the fact that this change is happening is because thousand of players asked for it its not random

[woven glade]

Its a bit sad if we're now at a point where TH "i don't care about any consistency with game aesthetics" now is the definer for what runescape looks like.

[clever crow]

Same with most integrity changes, it was players requests

[patent falcon]

A loud minority complained and now you're seeing the feedback from the people who were fine with things, or opposed to these rushed, poorly-implemented changes, but it is frequently too late because they've already started in that direction

[clever crow]

Because the people happy with the changes they asked are not coming here to complain, theres not that much people conplaining tbf

[undone siren]

Well, the protean-inspired “we should have AFK skilling that is also good XP and profit comparable to active skilling” somehow became what some players expect the gameplay to be like now

MTXes really have tainted the game down to its core

[patent falcon]

🙈 Anything can be true if you decide it is, I guess. I didn't say anything about cosmetics in my survey, but I certainly would have if I'd known this was where it'd end up

[woven glade]

All the offenders in the blog is from a time span from 2013-2017 I think, with the majority being 2014-2016.

Its a pretty narrow span of the games history, one where they were doing a lot of really weird things with game aesthetics and using styles that didn't fit.

I mean just look at how they mangled the elf graphical update in 2014.

[wintry whale]

I'd actually like to see the results of those surveys, including the percentage of people who said they didnt want the change. Because if they did the survey like they did the TH one (and let's be real I voted yes to removal of TH too but They only gave one option and a 10K goal post), then it's pretty deceptive if they don't show us how many voted no to these changes, especially if they were close to each other

[woven glade]

Wait no we have one exception with the halloween stuff from a decently recent halloween. Though that one is based on a boss from 2017.

[patent falcon]

The vote was deceptive as well because it was an entire package with a yes/abstain vote. I'm sure the results would've been a lot more granular if they'd split out "remove TH", "remove cosmetics", "remove daily challenges", etc.

[wintry whale]

Where even did those surveys take place because I never even seen them.

[kindred plaza]

Same, I haven't seen the survey

[patent falcon]

I only knew of one survey that was like around November, slightly before the vote

[cursive igloo]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/mtx-experiments-what-weve-learned

[clever crow]

Do you think if Treasure Hunter had a no option and it was more people voting no than people voting yes, it shouldnt have been removed ? (Surveys takes place on the link they give on discord, emails even socials)

[woven glade]

They posted them:

• Homepage
• In game lobby banner
• Saw at least one broadcast ingame for a few of them
• Reddit
• Twitter
• Discord
• Facebook
• I think youtube?

Honestly everywhere it was to post

[clever crow]

Seems like it was not enough

[versed grail]

I'd been unplugged from Runescape for TWO YEARS and I heard about these

[clever crow]

[wintry whale]

So from this they even admit that the cosmetics based community was a small sample size, likely the few thousand that went tot he ccosmetic free world, so definitely not a majority of all players.

Twice in this they admit it was a low amount of people compared to the majority.

"Participation across the community represented a small subset of the audience, with many choosing to stick to Cosmetics-enabled Worlds. This also resulted in our lowest participation of all the Experiment surveys (though still in the many thousands!)."

"Despite this lower participation and engagement, it does show us some players are seeking a particular visual experience – and that the visual integrity of some legacy cosmetics can have an impact on the game experience.

Our takeaway from this is simple. Cosmetics are valued by those who want self-expression, but our historical design approach has been to the detriment of some players."

So they're doing this change based on a minority, not a majority...and they didnt even show the results of those who didn't want it

[woven glade]

Some of the many that was ran

[versed grail]

the TH removal poll is what got me to plug back in and the hard date for it's removal got me subbing again

[patent falcon]

The only place I saw it was in the Launcher news, which is probably the best, because I doubt the majority of people are so plugged into other social media for RS

[woven glade]

It was not the only one that had these questions, there were overlap in questions between it and cosmetic drop survey

[clever crow]

Proof that some things need to go for game health and bring back players

[woven glade]

The questions about visuals I've seen in at least 4 surveys over the last year if I don't misremember. It came up in some of the generic ones too.

[clever crow]

It did yes

[kindred plaza]

Again, nobody in /this thread/ is arguing about TH's removal, it had to go, it was harmful, that is without question.
this is an entirely different issue.

[clever crow]

Its part of the same changes (integrity)

[woven glade]

We have nothing suggesting that those against the changes is not an even smaller minority though.

[hot star]

the splash art for the dart beast mask is some really interesting food for thought also

[clever crow]

Also isnt treasure hunter that brought some of these elite skilling outfits into the game ? 😂

[wintry whale]

That's my point is they didn't show us all the data. Something they love to do is hide data to make it look more exaggerated than it is.

What they should do is:

Make the changed outfits be cosmetic overrides.

then fine-tune the toggle to be per part or even per person. (Right click a person and press "Hide overrides" on that person. Heck I know some games that do that already.

There's plenty of options they can do to make this work for everyone, because there's no reason a person can't look how they like on their end.

[versed grail]

all of them, every single thing in the blog AFAIK

[woven glade]

I think you underestimate how many questions were on the surveys. If it was all the data that blog would be massive.

For ethorin, almost everything. Cinderbanes weren't, neither were that lost grove mask I think?

[wintry whale]

So be it. More transparency is better. Is that what they promised?

There's plenty of games out there where you have to see people's "bad fashion" and deal with it. I don't see why RS has to be the one game that says "Nah fam we're catering to the vocal minority that hates cosmetics" lol

I'm exaggerating but my point is clear.

[versed grail]

there is, in fact, a difference between "bad fashion" and "BiS skilling outfit"

[clever crow]

Linked to treasure hunter = delete

[wintry whale]

Yes but people also liked those outfits looks for fashion too.

So instead of removing it, go ahead with the changes and make them overrides for people that like them. Problem solved

[wheat raptor]

Idk I've been complaining about them for the better part of a decade, most people are fine with them being earnable outfits just not THE elite skilling outfits
Look at archaeology outfit, there's a clear sense of growth and connection, i do not feel anything other than bafflement going from cool rc outfit to walking nervous system, from glimmerous fop to rockman, etc
I will agree that they should take more time to come up with a better designs

[versed grail]

there's a difference between "I put a lot of thought into how to take these reasonable cosmetics into maximum unreasonability" and "this cosmetic outfit is just unreasonable to begin with"

[woven glade]

Yeah nothing in that blog is particularily surprising to be brought up. Elite skilling outfits has been complained about since their inception.

[clever crow]

100%

[wintry whale]

Now you're just being obtuse about it lol. If someone likes the look of something even if it's ridiculous, that's still their fashion choices and doesn't and shouldn't matter to anyone else

which is why the second part of my suggestion such as hiding a specific person's overrides could also go in

[clever crow]

The only thing i could accept is a toggle : obnoxious overrides with every of these cosmetics included in that toggle

[woven glade]

I'm not a huge fan of the vocal minority argument (sadly I've used it myself from time to time) because it always carries the implication that whoever makes an argument is the silent majority, usually without a shred of evidence of that being the case.

Often it also become a case of well everyone who disagree is in the data, but everyone thats not responded all should count as agreers.

How do we know the dark numbers swing either way?

[patent falcon]

I definitely am gonna wear the shark outfit as much as I can until it gets changed to annoy these complainers

[clever crow]

Or what if : only you the player can see your obnoxious items and no one else can They dont even need cosmetic toggle, nobody see them except you as default

[undone siren]

congratulations, you will serve as proof of why it needed to be changed

[wintry whale]

Well I mean that's what the toggle would be for. Like I said the changes would be fine to me, if they make the former visuals overrides.

[remote adder]

Meh. Remove them and people still find a way to annoy others one way or another.

[clever crow]

But no one else can see them except you even with cosmetic toggle on right ?

[patent falcon]

Your name is apt that what other people wear is ruining your fun.

[wintry whale]

That would be the point yes. If they become overrides then people can toggle overrides off

[clever crow]

No thats not what i say, even if i have cosmetic toggled ON i wouldnt see you

[woven glade]

So the cosmetic toggle's job is to clean up the games aesthetic?

Sure I guess, its just a bit weird to concede to the toggle "use this to see the game the way its intended"

[undone siren]

but my name isn't "normal person"

[patent falcon]

A bit slow on the pickup, but you'll get there, buddy

[clever crow]

Because you chose items listed as obnoxious, so you are automatically removed

[wintry whale]

I mean there's also the other option I mentioned. A toggle where you can right-click someone and hide that person's visuals.

Or take the approach some games do where it hides the entire person if you ignore/block them, if we wanna go that extreme

[clever crow]

Im fine with keeping as overrides only if not a single other player can see it except you,

[wintry whale]

If they add what I said, it would be that way for anyone. But the point of cosmetics is free expression, and while I agree someone should have control of what they see, I also think it should be upto players to press hide on someone else if they don't like it. Which is where it comes back to what people have been saying, this whole update process was rushed and poorly thought out

[woven glade]

Funny part here is that me an ezyon argued about toggles in the first place a while ago.

To me I'd accept them becoming cosmetic overrides as I'd be rid of them, but I'd feel bad about all the cosmetic enjoyers that have to keep having them around.

[tired ridge]

They should keep the annoying outfits etc but make it so that whenever you are wearing one, you are forced to walk everywhere with no use of teleports or lodestones. Problem solved

[clever crow]

Or make everyone wearing overrides listed as obnoxious skulled so they can be killed by other players ? Pvp brought back to life

[versed grail]

If I have to curate my experience to have a cohesive world, I don't have a cohesive world

[tired ridge]

Falador Massacre 2026 😄

[wintry whale]

Look lol if you think people looking like a shark is terrible you should see some of the outfits people wear in other games like FFXIV that you CANT hide lol. I'd rather someone look like a shark in FFXIV than some of the outfits they wear

But that's part of the MMO experience, seeing really bad outfits and making fun of them, or just walking away from them.

RS added a cosmetic toggle hider so at least they're thinking of people there, but again they could've made this smoother by letting people just keep the cosmetics and add individual hiders to people.

[woven glade]

I think it should be up to players to hide what they don't like

But its also up to Jagex to have a coherent game aesthetic in the first place. I think self expression is important, but it doesn't override all other aesthetic concerns.

Free expression =/= cosmeticallyanything goes.

And yeah, I don't want to play FF14 because I don't like the artstyle among others.

Inividual hiders to people would be awful for me because I don't want to play the game halfway solo as I empty the world.

[clever crow]

Thats the thing i will never turn off cosmetics i enjoy them, i enjoy people having cool outfits, but the obnoxious ones... I accepted toggles theres a reason people wanted them but i cant themto be more specific so someone dont have to be prevented from seeing my outfit because they just dontenjoy wings

[wintry whale]

I dont mean hiding the person but clicking on a person and hiding their overrides

[woven glade]

I don't want to manually do that with everyone I meet. I wouldn't mind others having said functionality, but to me I want that one click hide all the toggle offer.

[clever crow]

Jagex has 100% the right to decide whats their game design tho, they dont have to cater to what other mmos like ff14 has

[wheat raptor]

Come on secret agent buff moogle is peak

[woven glade]

I don't want to see cosmetic overrides at all anywhere. Good taste, bad taste, I just want gear I see to be what people actually wear (and have it fit the world/current activity)

So toggle for me is in fact the perfect implementation.

[wintry whale]

You haven't died until you see the weeabo police. Go to Lamia occasionally in Limsa, you'll know what I mean

[clever crow]

Most other mmos have mounts should we add mounts to the game ?

[woven glade]

as I said above I'm fine with turning the items into cosmetics because at least at that point its no longer my problem. I just know others will be upset at that as much though

[wintry whale]

I'm not suggesting to add anything another MMO has. I'm saying RS is trying to be the pretty pony here in the show and do something different but they're bungling it up by alienating players that were already established.

I'm suggesting they could avoid that by making the outfits overrides to keep them for the players that like them, and add a way to hide individual players cosmetics that they don't want to see.

Also your question is very irrelevant no ones talking about mounts dude

[lusty coyote]

Adding mounts would ruin one of Meg's adventure answers 😋

[wheat raptor]

Yea I don't mind them turned into cosmetics, I absolutely hate the idea that they are THE elite skilling outfits regardless of whether I use cosmetics toggles or not

[woven glade]

Well they're not the only game with toggle. World of Tanks and a few others got similar.

If anything I hope other games start adopting cosmetic toggles. If I buy a military shooter I want to see soldiers not anime girl guns.

Every multiplayer game would be better if I had skin toggle ngl. Except for those that only do sensible skins. They're cool.

[soft bear]

am I misremembering that there's going to be a toggle in the next COD?

[remote adder]

Anime girl guns just sells.

Honestly, kudos on Jagex for not submitting to that.

Where the batwing torso fans at?

[wintry whale]

I mean I used batwing torso for cosmetic for a long time before I bought my current one

[modern salmon]

rs3 outfits like the ethereal outfit are the spirit of runescape for over a decade.. stop messing with rs3

[tired ridge]

Nah, it's been created by Infinity Ward. They hate their players and will bring back strict sbmm no doubt.

[wheat raptor]

I feel like another connected issue is how inaccessible keepsake keys are compared to competing MMOs
Beach outfit costs 2m and keepsaking masterwork costs give or take 300m what would most players do
I wouldn't be complaining about the current elite outfits about a quarter as much if the system didn't suck and I can make my own mining outfit instead of cobbling a bunch of extremely unrelated overrides

[modern salmon]

goodness me.. stop messing with rs3

[wintry whale]

Keepsake keys definitely should be reworked. Transmogging items is free in most games now, RS is probably the only one that charges for it these days. As far as i know

[wheat raptor]

Gw2 charges for buying charges but there's 952582733701 ways to get them without touching mtx at all and if you grind hard enough you can get legendary armor which gives you free transmogs for life

[woven glade]

Funny thing is that adding infinity ethereal was very much a "stop messing with RS3" moment for a lot of us

I realise that now we've reached quite a few different visions of what runescape is and they're clearly not compatible

[pulsar drift]

Yeah it's not normally free (in terms of any in-game currency that is, rather than £££), but it's not normally as limited as Keepsake keys are

[clever crow]

Keepsake keys should be : unlock a permanent slot that you can put and remove physical items in

[kindred plaza]

I agree there, that would be pretty neat

[clever crow]

3 keys = 3 permanent slots. You put a 3 items in they are filled. You remove one you can change it with something else without buying a new key

[wheat raptor]

It's a balance that should be maintained tbh
I've seen plenty of goofy outfits in other mmos but that's balanced out by a ton of genuinely cool glam from various cultures, cosplaying other games and time periods
I still think the project for elite skilling outfits should stay at the planning stage so they can cook better outfits even if I like the placeholders more than the current elite skilling set

[hallow kestrel]

I don’t particularly care about cosmetic stuff as a whole (I’m often fairly zoomed out, and not playing on large screens, and in any case not paying much attention to the visual aspect of the game as much as the substance of what’s happening), but a question about the Mining outfit: is there an intent to change where it comes from?

In its current iteration, its gold for a very good reason — it comes from the LFM, specifically the [[liquid gold nymph]] who’s obsessed with gold and wants everything to be gold, hence giving you the outfit, and later gilding pickaxes. Seems a bit strange unless the lore/source is going to change as well.

[dry light]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Liquid_Gold_Nymph

[hallow kestrel]

Also, regarding the conversion from the current outfits, the question of how they’ll be made going forward (and the rebalancing of the fragments) will be interesting, but for current players it seems like we’re looking at an “early bird bonus/penalty” situation — having anywhere from one to three of the outfit pieces (and not just the combined version) be converted into the same result seems a little weird, especially considering players who may not be active in the short time frame (just a couple weeks) between the blog and the changes going live.

While in theory as soon as you hit five pieces of any outfit set you should have been trying to trade and get to at least one full set (in which case you’ll be getting the full combined outfit anyway), it’s not always easy to find people to trade with who don’t already have the full set, and have the pieces you need and are able to spare them, and are able to accept the pieces you have to trade away. Not only that, but the non-combined outfits are much less powerful, such that some people have probably not been going to the effort of trading the pieces around. Not only that, but having made that decision, those players may well have already chosen to combine pieces that they had the full set of, making those pieces untradable.

With these changes coming in, any players who don’t have the full combined sets should now be hurrying to trade pieces with each other and make sure that everyone has at least one piece for each slot (regardless of whether those pieces are from the same suboutfit or not), but those who either previously assumed they wouldn’t end up trading and combined pieces, or anyone on even a brief absence from the game, are going to be losing out in this transition.

A better way to handle the transition would be to unlock the full outfit for anyone with at least 5 of the individual pieces unlocked, and the corresponding number of pieces for people with fewer than five (even if some of the pieces are for the same type or even combined).

[cold oasis]

osrs added mounts and it was well received

theyre even teasing flying vehicles in the future

[chilly plaza]

agreed with you, they just need to make it so that some players can see togglebbale consemetics nad others cant. problem solved. forget this whole "runescape feel" bs. I think they are just trying to find ways to justify their damn salary.

itll be all fun and games until someone shows up at the HQ and has a chat with them.

this is a sick outfit

[chilly plaza]

wait actually? OSRS has mounts now?

[cold oasis]

boats are a completely new form of movement so yes

[idle aurora]

A mount would be a rideable animal. Boats are a vehicle.

[hot star]

what's a horse drawn carriage then

[woeful ether]

I don't think mounts would be too bad for RS honestly. Of course implementation details in terms of 'how to mount', where are they limited (most MMOs don't allow in towns or player hubs for good reason), or lore explanations would need to be considered.

Mechanically though... something like: move 3 tiles per tick (+50% speed) but remove surge / dive options while mounted (20 tiles every 17 ticks w/double + mobile) would balance out and make traversal about the same speed (lil slower if optimal on surges) but more 'lazy' point and click.

[hot star]

anyway, lets stay on topic

[woeful ether]

I saw some chatter scrollin' through about the lava flow mine outfit not being gold and I have to agree that's an odd choice given the significance of gold there.

I'd also be interested to know how different flavours will go. Going with the mining outfit example, we'd presumably end up with 5 colour options at the end: base lava flow outfit -> silver version, ruby golem -> red version, emerald golem -> green version, sapphire golem -> blue version, combined -> gold version.

[cold oasis]

would the lava flow outfit look better if it had the look of newer gold items?

[tender lichen]

no

a conquistador based outfit has no rhyme or reason being mining related

[rigid gull]

I'm gonna miss the current elite outfits that are getting changed (besides the runecrafting one)

Becoming one with the skill was always a very interesting idea

[woeful ether]

Runecrafting is gonna be an interesting one 'cause there's already blue/yellow/green robes, the master RC outfit, and we'll presumably get law/death/blood/master versions of the replacement for 7 total variations.
The get 3 sets -> combine thing I think can go honestly but that's a bigger task than replace the appearance of existing items

[woeful ether]

Ohnice

[main marlin]

Please put time and effort in to updating the skilling outfits with 2026 era designs, recolours are lazy af dare I say diabolical. Also sorry jagex its kinda funny to see so many people freak out about their cosmetics and talk about removing more than whats needed its so simple to understand you want to change the physical item outfits that people will wear on a daily basis training skills, it should be fairly obvious that nobody cares if your cosmetic that I can't see anymore with the toggle is ungrounded.

[echo moat]

I was thinking about it some more but I think the skilling outfit visual changes should be pushed back. I understand the want to have a coherent visual design and theme for it but its current implementation for the blog was lackluster.

They are the Best In Slot Skilling Items and need to be properly designed. I know the team might not have enough art dev time dedicated to it since this is suppose to be a rapid thing to change but I think its worth the investment to get it right.

My ideal scenario is that once every month or two we get a coherent skilling design concept that works with the skillcape color scheme and a variation paying homage to the original skilling outfit visual design from the previous era. I know its been mentioned and shared of what LegendArts was posting on socials of his interpretations of the designs but paying homage to the old is always good.

Not to mention, I think its viable to have also one to two variations as potential designs that can show up as available Marketplace cosmetics that players can buy. For example Shark Outfit has 4 variations but the new Master Fishing outfit can pay homage to the Red version with some red shark design concepts. While the other 3 variations could be available on the marketplace.

This would deal with both creating a long term design vision for skilling outfits to be remastered over the next several months but also see a potential new way for Jagex to earn abit more financially with the FashionScape crowd and the cosmetic toggle off folks being okay with the changes too.

[idle aurora]

They are removing the non combined elite outfit pieces. You will just make the finished elite outfit now

[woeful ether]

If it's pushed back and delayed, I'd like to propose that would be a wonderful time to reintroduce Runelabs. Like how we helped with deciding what the new area/clue etc pets would be, it'd be very nice to have that same level of interaction for helping shape what the skilling outfits could be out of a few concepts or colour schemes (even if they're very low fidelity and rough). Not deciding if the current should stay or go, but picking from a few options that the Jagex team are all happy with and fit the identity of the game and the goals of the regrounding.
That could also be a fun art stream topic if wanted where the community could see things form and learn more about the thought process, researching and such that goes into making stuff, etc etc.

Just some food for thought / thinking out loud.

[echo moat]

I don't know if anyones shared Wings of Absurdity's video on the topic but her explaining the precedent of the removal of Cosmetics without structured reimbursement is a slippery slope. Providing various references of how various outfits/cosmetics and how they were not properly addressed even ones as recent as the Dungeoneering outfits and a lot more. https://youtu.be/vH4e9HAGepk?si=GKgzr73sBoIQbPco I highly recommend checking out the video for any of the Jmods who plan to dive into this topic and become responsible for it. Proper reimbursement with RuneCoins is the best solution imo and then also creating a long term system that the Jagex team can utilize by quantifying all cosmetics/wearable items would be worthwhile to develop. This is especially true for the long term when this topic comes up again with other outdated items/cosmetics and/or potential outfit modifications.

[echo moat]

Agree fully, I would happily love to get something like RuneLabs to help coordinate long term visual designs. This would be especially useful if Jagex wants to create a proper Marketplace for Cosmetics to sell. Having good will between the potential buyers of the outfits by designing what they want with Jagex would be really awesome to see. I think the Marketplace has a lot of potential since no company would be as involved with fans about future cosmetics while retaining the RuneScape visual design theme.

Also I know this blog post was signed off by The RuneScape Team but I think it warrants someone whose willing to properly take responsibility for the project as a long term solution or at least a team of listed Jmods who are signing off on the blog. I know thats a scary thing to do since it burdens them a lot and puts people at the forefront of the community backlash but I think in the long term, a dedicated team to addressing cosmetic design needs to be made and if it has been made, we can at least communicate with the specific team to help give player feedback.

[woeful ether]

I don't like that personally. I can see "Mod X wrote that blog, I don't like it, I'll doubt or be harsher towards every other blog post put out by Mod X in future" type sentiment or even worse, things turn toxic or witch hunt-y towards a specific person kind of thing and don't think there's much benefit. I very much would like to think players aren't like that, but I have doubts.

[cold oasis]

this video is the same argument people keep repeating here. they want x, so jagex cant remove it because they like it. it completely ignores the part where the looks dont fit inside the world jagex wants runescape to develop into with these changes.

[echo moat]

Personally I think its important. When I know Mod Breezy or Mod Sponge or Mod Ryan are signing off on the blogs theyre writing, it feels a lot more comforting since theyre interacting in different mediums to get feedback and then addressing their shortgivings and growing on the topic.

I know its a really frustrating place to put yourself out there especially when cosmetics/fashionscape are considered for the core visual design in the long term but not having someone whose as passionate about the topic makes this a lot more frustrating since we dont know anything about what the actual solution will be.

I can look at various different communities and see various jmods who are always involved like the lore jmods actively communicating in the lore channels or the combat jmod team interacting on pvme and various other mediums or the art team in the runescape art community and I can list a few more communities that have active jmod interactions too. The problem is cosmetics/fashionscape dont really have a team or even 1 jmod thats really involved in the community from what ive seen and having someone be that passionate jmod who wants to really elevate the marketplace and visual design of the cosmetics/fashionscape is great for the long term. Ideally I want it to be a team of listed Jmods so its not just one person being burdened with it.

[echo moat]

I am completely fine with removing things. The problem is there is no structured system for removing things. With how badly a lot of cosmetics/items were implemented in the past through gambling simulator or other mediums, Jagex needs to create a coherent system for cosmetics and giving them runecoin price costs for when things get removed in the future is what I want to see. I dont want to see this issue coming back again and again because they didnt create a long term system for this.

[main marlin]

Am i missing something? Because from the post they are changing elite skilling outfits which are items, potentially changing a few other items that are physical items as well example: lovers medallion and octopus backpack and you get your keepsake key refunded where are they saying that theyre removing cosmetics???

[echo moat]

Theyre removing quite a few mtx earned outfits like zodiac costume. People either spent real world money to roll for these or earned it through buying bonds to roll for keys. As more cosmetics/items get addressed, a quantifiable runecoin cost should be reimbursed with these outdated items/cosmetics. This will become a constant reoccuring theme for the whole year as more things get phased out and I'd like Jagex be proactive about a solution than reactive and constantly having to deal with this topic again and again.

[rigid gull]

It was possible to get the zodiac costume without getting red envelopes from th to skip the tasks.

[main marlin]

I see and I agree sure whatever give people 100 runecoins or some non relevant reward for having the item as compensation or just turn them into a cosmetic so the owner can see it and everyone else can have them toggled off. I personally think picking and choosing random items that lets be real people aren't going to wear all the time either is so useless. The picture posted by jagex is silly af too like yes i remember when i joined a nex aod team and brought full chicken outfit instead of armour... the point should be changing stuff you will actively see on people all the time with cosmetic toggle enabled like skill outfits. Period. Its so simple

[hallow kestrel]

You mean a [[Theh Orses]]-drawn carriage

[dry light]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Theh_Orses

[rigid gull]

I wonder by how much they are going to tone down the Damis Dark's effect. I do actually use that in a preset.

[oblique garnet]

It’s the same with the mining outfit wings, flaming skull and some auras that could be bought with irl money…. People not using keepsake keys but real money just get nothing back….

[main marlin]

First part of my statement recommend to them to either give 100 runecoins or keep these items as a cosmetic override which everyone can just hide anyways. Would be a perfect solution either way you can still enjoy it alone on your screen 😁

[primal bluff]

Some say that the skilling outfit should match the skillcape, I disagree on that, it shouldn’t be a req

[crisp coral]

Be honest with yourself, 100 runecoins is nothing and will get you nothing

Even for members a single keepsake key is 126 runecoins in the Solomon store

The cheapest item in the marketplace is 140 without the discount for a single keepsake key or 180 for a frozen necromancy ability effect

[maiden dew]

Hello mods, Idk if this has been brought up before (just joined the RS discord). But with regards to the skilling outfit regrounding - happy about the direction this is going, making the outfits more 'human-fitting' and not rocky/sharky etc. I like the outfit elements you are currently using as far as the timeline you currently set out to release the update, and appreciate that you are utilising recolouring as a way to distinguish them apart from certain items in game that currently have the same design. My suggestion - for the short term, I understand the reuse of previous material and recolouring. However, please do not stick to these as a final touch up. As in, look into them again past the planned activities of the integrity roadmap 2026 (or if you have the time to look into them again within this year), as one, the recolouring of old material does not currently match up with the singular updated graphical design approach RS is taking forward (outdated graphic of some of the outfits), and two, the red and gold approach for these outfits doesn't look good on all outfits, which in turn doesn't make the outfits feel unique in their respective skill. You have done so well with designing the Arch and Necro skilling outfit as they are thematic to their respective skill from design to colour scheme, therefore that should be applied to all other skilling outfits. (i.e. I've never seen a Fisherman fitted in red and gold fishing gear irl, therefore it does not seem to be grounded; or a Miner blinged out in clean golden gear. Realistically, that miner's outfit should have some dusting/dirt markings and should be more of a protective gear (we can consider a magically imbued upper body metal-gear like a bronze or iron pauldrons (or a one-shoulder pauldron) and some knee to shin guards as a more grounded gear covering over a cloth based outfit for a miner in Gielinor

[main marlin]

It is nothing and its fine and if you have a bunch of these useless items that you never use anyways its better than nothing, if you see someone wearing zodiac outfit theyre just goofing around trolling 😄

[crisp coral]

Right because people using stuff they like is "trolling"

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them useless

[main marlin]

You can do whatever you want in the video game and i respect that but yes sitting at the g.e wearing an outfit that doesn't let you equip other items would be in my own opinion trolling, hence I would never do it. But anyways to get back on topic how much compensation would be enough? All i've seen is people complaining wanting compensation it would be wise to throw out some ideas.

[tacit sparrow]

id feel like they rushing visual identity, we have the whole year to do it, i want them to take they time with it

[crisp coral]

Learn the meaning of the word trolling

Also you can wear anything with the zodiac costume so no clue what you're talking about, the only 2 things you can't use when wearing it is using walk animations and combat.

That ain't trolling

[tacit sparrow]

i wish i got the zodiac costume, but alas, it will go away

[crisp coral]

As for compensation, nothing because they should keep them in the game and not remove them. Already said this before but they should limit when you can use it to only during lunar new year like the snowboards being limited to Christmas period

[main marlin]

Up a bit I also suggested they could turn all these items into cosmetic override only, delete the item and then everyone is happy. You get your weird item. People who intend to play the MMO get to turn cosmetics off and not see it.

[crisp coral]

Jagex doing half baked work as usual, removing or changing things that never were the issues with player complaints

Like the slayer mask/helmets getting changed because it makes the character into a monster yet keep stuff like transmogs that straight up lets you change into animals or npcs

Even trees which is being used to troll players by blocking vision, that's what's trolling is not unable to equip other items yourself

[crisp coral]

They keep rushing things without taking in player feedback

The 3 things players wanted was MTX gone, hiding cosmetics and less cosmetic particles and they somehow chooses to say alright lets remove the possibility for players to look not human by either removing or changing items but limit it to only the non cosmetic items

[static meadow]

Dont touch my flaming headdd plss. Rip my old goku outfit

[tacit sparrow]

osrs has way crasher that can be used all year around, my character is still headless over there

[static meadow]

Im 😞 i play for fashionscape now they taking things i’ve been collecting away.

[tacit sparrow]

🫂

[static meadow]

There is so much more ridiculous outfit why flaming head. Jeez

[tacit sparrow]

prob particle

[static meadow]

Remove devourer aura then catalytic aura thats bs reason

[tacit sparrow]

maybe
id just wait with the mtx and these item

[crisp coral]

Jagex logic 101: lets remove or change items that changes the player into monsters

Meanwhile...

[static meadow]

I bought the dragon for the wings only lmao

[crisp coral]

And even this getting ignored

[quiet forge]

Could it be that some of those are items. and the rest are overrides

[crisp coral]

https://runescape.wiki/w/Kalphite_King_helm

[static meadow]

If they removing the zombie outfit.. i cant bite people anymore..

[crisp coral]

Used keepsake keys for the zombie outfit and octopus backpack

[crisp coral]

Best way to solve the zombie outfit and zodiac costume issue Jagex created themselves if they don't like them but the community wants to keep it is to lock them behind world 41 & 42 which are the roleplay worlds

[hazy pine]

Jagex should 1000% commit to this re-grounding idea at another time.
If there are no resources besides the bare minimum, it will result in a lot of backlash.

[clever crow]

They are overrides its a different update didnt you check the roadmap ?

The glowing outfit you posted will get addressed surely

[crisp coral]

Flaming skull is a cosmetic override besides it also being an item

[cold oasis]

how many outfits like this are there currently?

[clever crow]

A handful, thats why it was included in the items update

[cold oasis]

they were? i dont see them mentioned anywhere

[clever crow]

No im talking about the skull, it was included probably because it has a physical item

[crisp coral]

They should remove the zombie outfit after player avatar rework and give the option being a zombie as a skin option

Not everyone wants to play as a boring looking human or a human dressed up as a pretend to be zombie or monster with still human skin being shown

[rigid gull]

With the zombie outfit on the chopping block, I wonder if other undead outfits will also be once they get to regrounding overrides. Like the Arrav, Mummy, Deathleass Regent or Reaver overrides.

[crisp coral]

They removing it because Iffie missing out on gp

[rigid gull]

Shhh. Don't remind them. It might get added to their list.

[crisp coral]

It's on the list of being fine because it shows human skin and doesn't make you look 100% monster

Perfect example for this change

[static meadow]

I still wont wear even with after

[rigid gull]

Doesn't the Mimic helm show your face?

[crisp coral]

They hate players to be monsters and confuse the new players

[rose thorn]

about the same as the "after" here I'd say

[crisp coral]

Mask > helmet

They are adding the back portion to the mask and call it a day

Making all those kills just for upgrading it ain't worth it anymore

If you wanted the full helmet look alone

[rigid gull]

I'm afraid to see what the Jellyhead becomes

Or Helm of the Dead Hand

[crisp coral]

I'm more worried regarding the dagganoth and black demon ones

[clever crow]

In runescape you have to olay a human tho

[crisp coral]

F humans, boring creatures

[clever crow]

Thats what the game is tho

[crisp coral]

Totally a human...

[clever crow]

It sounds like you dont like what the game is in its core and what Jagex decided their game is, the player being a human,

[clever crow]

Yeah they recognized (jagex) it was a mistake and will probably fix it dont worry, just give it a bit of time

They cant fix all their mistakes that fast it will take time

[cold oasis]

really wish there was a section on the wiki that had all these items on it

[crisp coral]

Sometimes mistakes ain't mistakes and only those wanting them to be mistake turns them into one

[cold oasis]

i have about 45 tabs open of bad outfits but i think most of them are cosmetic overrides and dont fit with this blogs goal

[clever crow]

If its Jagex that decided it was a mistake for their game design, its one

[crisp coral]

If they want to fix this issue they should do it all at once instead of step by step, same as a game that's clearly not finished shouldn't be released to the public under the disguise as "work in progress deal with it, getting fixed when we have time for it"

[clever crow]

Its too much of a task to do it all at once

[crisp coral]

Look at the gnome quest series and elemental workshop they planned for future quests to be added but got scrapped because the ones that wrote the series ain't working at Jagex anymore so we shelf giving it attention for 15 YEARS

Always been an issue with Jagex delivering half baked work because something came up and it's getting shelved

[clever crow]

Yeah but thats different its gonna be done this year but not all at once, tbf i never expected them to do that much work in one update with the roadmap we have

[crisp coral]

Doubt

Certain content during roadmaps either ended up delayed to the year after or scrapped because it wasn't what the community wanted

Or they mistook it because they refuse to poll it like osrs is doing

We finally get the avatar rework but how long ago was that planned?

They are changing cosmetics before changing the avatar that wears them

[cold oasis]

thats probably why they feel comfortable deleting a lot of cosmetics that dont fit the game anymore

look at how bad some of these look...

[clever crow]

Crazy 😂

[crisp coral]

https://tenor.com/view/its-called-fashion-thats-fashion-sassy-the-most-impossible-little-mix-quiz-bounce-back-gif-15821415

[clever crow]

No wonder the game doesnt attract new players if it looks like that

[cold oasis]

never would have imagined people who want to play as non-humans also have bad fashion sense.

[crisp coral]

Only saying the thing that they would say

Tbh the right one with the wolf mask thing from the loyalty shop

If you change it to grey instead of blue and use iron armor it fits really well

[clever crow]

Ah the right wolf mask

But his chest piece is seren armor

[versed grail]

I went through my wardrobe for overrides that met their criteria, yup, got a few, even the ones that I like in isolation I'll take losing.

[clever crow]

Its easy to make a list of overrides with their criteria

[woeful ether]

Even if it's 'bad', these players are probably happy with their fashionscape, and isn't that most important? 🤔 Not really a fan of the green effect whatever that is tho' but think that's not part of the non-human part of the fashionscape.

[crisp coral]

you can always change the boots to something like iron boots but it would looks something like this instead

[rigid gull]

The left or right green effect?

[woeful ether]

Kinda both but the left is more egregious imo. Without seeing how it's animated or if it leaves a trail or w/e it's hard to say how bad it is tho'

[rigid gull]

Right is from the necromancy guard

[woeful ether]

In saying that, I'm using the catalyst aura and that's very extreme too. Altho' it's red and red is good I've learned from the concepts. /s

[rigid gull]

Left is the devourer aura cosmetic

[woeful ether]

Nice. I guess the point I was making is - the non-human parts of those fashionscapes aren't the parts I don't like / find distracting.

[crisp coral]

RIP Helm of the Dagganoth's lower jaw

[wispy token]

would be cool if the transform option on the helmets were enhanced to be like the necklace of salamancy
rather than standing around doing 3 attack animations

[crisp coral]

won a twitter competition with that outfit and got a signed Runescape (Chronicle) concept art of my choosing

[wispy token]

raptor jesus outfit?

[crisp coral]

yes

[woeful ether]

That's cool! I would heart react to this if I could

[wispy token]

classic

[primal bluff]

this outfit should be removed asap imo

[crisp coral]

everything going to change into the [[camel mask]]

[dry light]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Camel_mask

[crisp coral]

20 year old mask already this year

[tacit sparrow]

i wonder how player avatar changes are going to look like with ultra old gear

[woeful ether]

I suspect goofy but am very okay with that 😁

[crisp coral]

Can't wait to use this with player rework

[primal bluff]

I'll be ripped even more

[wheat raptor]

More abs on female avatars

[crisp coral]

female characters finally getting real arms and legs

[pliant folio]

Depending how they want to approach it, they may have to re-rig them for animation purposes and change any visible skin to be the same areas used for the new models.

I personally would assume they may phase it in batches, otherwise there are a LOT of eras of playerkits they will need to update. So it won't be a one-and-done update i'd say.

There are technically some combinations which caused some of the initial delays to begin with where you have 5-7 eras of playerkits which led to a lot more work being needed.

[primal bluff]

Big project for sure

[pliant folio]

Yeah, i am guilty of pointing some of it out causing some of it. 😅

[crisp coral]

female characters after avatar rework

[primal bluff]

Handsome, looking g00d

[wheat raptor]

Fire emoji

[crisp coral]

they fixed the stretch for them after they made walking animations for them

[pliant folio]

I'd say if things go really well, they'll tackle a lot of the technical debt they have with the avatars and some animations over time that should also make them a tad more fluid. But that's a different system, for a different day of the expectation.

Mostly because while they're working on these, they could introduce more bones and vertex group flags to potentially allow more rigging to be done, allowing more control.

But that's me being more tech optimistic

[crisp coral]

I just hope for one thing to not get worse

[primal bluff]

Necklace slot should be a priority too after avatar rework

[crisp coral]

robe bottom stretching that's pissing me off for years on how bad that looks

[primal bluff]

One of my favo outfits currently

[static meadow]

Whats wrong with my goku outfit

Petition to not remove flame heads

[rigid gull]

He rode a cloud, not a flying carpet, right?

[static meadow]

There was no cloud 2018

[rigid gull]

That's about the only flaw I see

[crisp coral]

gonna miss eating players

[static meadow]

100% remove

[rigid gull]

Need to make a giant train of people wearing the pieces 1 last time

[primal bluff]

cool

[crisp coral]

Zodia costume (tail) + Dizzy Stick best combination

[rigid gull]

Maybe with 1 person in front with the running scared walk and have the long dragon follow them

[cold oasis]

gokus head isnt on fire, next question

[crisp coral]

pogo stick all the way

[rugged tapir]

Yes

Just make them all cosmetic overrides. Toggles exist unlike osrs where ppl have to see stuff like that no matter what

[crisp coral]

Nothing can beat Boat

https://tenor.com/view/its-time-lets-go-do-gif-27117248

[crisp coral]

RS3 devs:

OSRS devs:

[rugged tapir]

Basically! Osrs has ankou outfit and mummy outfit which are basically the equivalent to this. So you right.

[rugged tapir]

Didnt know they had this tho, lol

[crisp coral]

h'ween event item

[remote adder]

Looks human to me.

[woven glade]

ass to ass

[primal bluff]

osrs has some cool cosmetics

[crisp coral]

Would rather say this is the equivalent

[wispy token]

that's a big red mustache

[cold oasis]

its the cape from cg

[rugged tapir]

Oh, u right, u right. This one makes more sense

[woeful ether]

I wholeheartedly support fixing tech debt. But I can see no player-facing updates for a month+ not going down so well for many. 😅

[languid oasis]

Will see what they put tomorrow, the most important thing to me are the list of cosmetics being removed gets turned into overrides in some way

[clever crow]

Whats tomorrow ? 🤔

[tired ridge]

Judgement day.

[dawn sparrow]

Tomorrow is the thieving nerf, cosmetic thinggy is next week

[woeful ether]

The release is later but there will be more info put out via the blog I believe

[dawn sparrow]

I'm just concerned they are going to reduce the elite outfits to 5 parts instead of the 15 we had to grind for. It's not right.

[woeful ether]

That's exactly what will happen and that's by design - the multi-piece merging thing is an artefact of how it was released.

[dawn sparrow]

Yes but it is 54k fragments vs 18k you see the difference?

[pulsar drift]

If they decide to leave the fragment stuff the same, sure.
But "I suffered the crap RNG system so everyone should" isn't a good take.

[lusty coyote]

That was an artifact of making people grind on treasure hunter tickets to get all 15 parts. Good riddance, let everyone who follows us benefit from not having to deal with the struggle.

[clever crow]

When did they said tomorrow blog will give more infos on cosmetics ? I missed that

[dawn sparrow]

What RNG? You do realise it's a part of invention skill right? With proper difference amongst all 3 sets and master giving different?

[pulsar drift]

Yes and one of the big issues of the system before was that you could get 12 different equipment pieces and not actually have a full set to get the benefit of it, which was stupid.

[clever crow]

Yep that part is bad

[dawn sparrow]

Yeah so change the process how you get pieces involved not remove the individual piece utility. It's a progression.

[rose thorn]

yep, and you'd think it'd be balanced cause RNG but I've heard (& experienced) of this happening way too often to believe that

[woeful ether]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1r3sopz/aura_blog_post_delayed_to_monday_regrounding/

... will share our next steps for the project on Monday

I didn't actually see that post, just references to it so I'm not sure exactly where that screenshot is from though (and the post doesn't cite the source) 😅

[pulsar drift]

There's 0 benefit to having it as it currently is. Maybe you could split it down into 2 separate sets as a "base" and upgraded one, but there's no reason for it to be split into 3 (or 4) separate sets with unique bonuses on each one

[dawn sparrow]

Can easily be changed to 5 of 1 then progress to 15

[clever crow]

Its for auras monday no ?

[woeful ether]

I think that's the main focus but it also mentions regrounding. /shrug

[pulsar drift]

There's a couple of blogs meant to be coming out tomorrow yeah

[clever crow]

I see

[woven glade]

source is twitter

[clever crow]

Excited to see the next steps, maybe they found other items to add to the list

[woeful ether]

I don't envy whoever gets into work on Monday and has to read over ALL of this feedback. This thread has been SO active.

[shy path]

That's a good thing!
Also it's not just 1 person reading all of it

They have a team reading this, the jmod/design chat channels and other socials (especially the reddit threads)

[pulsar drift]

Nope, it's definitely the intern who has to read every single message before the 11am meeting

[lusty coyote]

This is the reason they were made to have 15 pieces instead of 5, or the full outfit unlocked at once: https://runescape.wiki/w/Gemstone_Golem_Outfits A five-day FOMO-fest on Treasure Hunter, to winparts of a different outfit each day for 3 days with all three the following two days, made rare enough that you couldn't collect all of them on the free spins the game rationed you to, and for which unlocking just some of the outfit was entirely useless. It was a cash grab that did nothing for the game, other than make those who couldn't afford to pay more money gambling until they unlocked all 15 pieces feel like they were missing out on the ability to enter the Living Rock Caverns (the best mining area of the time) without attracting hostility from the wandering creatures, a perk that only those who had effectively bought the full outfit could possibly have access to and made for much faster Mining progression and profiting from resources. The fact the outfits were added as earnable without forking out money, with unchanged mechanics, long after that promotion had ended and the outfits were no longer so prized, is irrelevant - The mechanic of acquisition for the full outfit was still not balanced for proper gameplay. All the other outfits followed the same pattern, and it's about time they were overhauled, in my opinion.

[woeful ether]

Yeah it's def' good ^^ There absolutely are other items that can be added (likely hundreds have popped up in discussion) but there are also a good amount who aren't happy (eg: the non-human thing; feel like everyone's on board with toning down particles though) and there may be some wiggle room to revise the criteria whilst still going ahead with things as planned. /shrug We'll see when there's time to consider and respond

[dawn sparrow]

Well they should keep the number of fragments required to get the outfit at 54k. 18k is nothing for a master outfit. And if they need to rework the separate items they should take their time, think alternatives and not rush it. It's a ridiculous proposition for removing something without brainstorming because you(jagex) don't like how it looks.

[versed grail]

...ah yes, there definitely hasn't been a year of feedback including "Shark Outfit is actively ruining no-cosmetic worlds"

[clever crow]

I mean an outfit that helps players train shouldnt be obtained that late imo

[woeful ether]

There absolutely has been thought put in to it.

I personally would love a peek behind the curtain though if anyone at Jagex is authorised to share and willing; eg: if there were a dev blog post detailing the process from idea inception -> internal ideation -> determining fitness fo the game -> team commitment to take it forward -> player communication -> feedback collation + consideration -> iteration - > implementation -> ??? or however it goes. ^^

[dawn sparrow]

https://youtu.be/vH4e9HAGepk?si=RwQ2fBndwaMa9VGC

Good points all around. Frankly if turning off cosmetics items isn't helping you, then maybe, fantasy mmo isn't your cup of tea.

[idle aurora]

Honestly. Long as I can look how I want on my end I'm happy.
Don't really care about how the skilling outfits look.

[versed grail]

it would've been better if the tree had never been planted, that doesn't mean the tree shouldn't be uprooted

[clever crow]

Of course, like other needed changes happening with integrity

[clever crow]

If you are not respecting the design choices Jagex make for their game, maybe its not for you, it kinda goes both way

[pulsar drift]

Agree on this tbh. Dependent on training method, you can end up very high level in the skill without the outfit that's intended to help you train the skill which is weird.

I wouldn't mind too much if they were actually delinked from invention, you start getting shards at like, level 40 or something and just have to pay to combine them if you don't have invention when you get the outfit

[inner gorge]

can we make quests grounded too cause its not very medieval fantasy for me to run around as a tiny penguin and play music

[cold oasis]

bad points all around.

[tacit sparrow]

i just want to look dumb while i beat zamorak
adding extra salt to the wound

[dusty sage]

technically RS falls more into renaissance fantasy based on armor design, cannons, city structure, etc

[forest onyx]

lol turn the elite outfit cosmetics into overrides "that players can purchase"

i have no horse in this race whatsoever but that's by far the most insane take. they should be unlocked automatically for free for everyone that has them + unlock when players currently without them then acquire them in the future

[versed grail]

nah

delete what needs deleting.

[wild dust]

i just want the outfits to not be a model with separated textures wrapped around it like someone pulled jpeg and added blurr to "disguse" its flaws which we clearly see in the shark outfit, priffdinias elves and newer "cats".

the amount of cosmetics thats in this group is awfull huge to list on its own.

Lastest remake of trees got bark that wraps around its branches like your joking? the curvatures you see on that barks makes it seem like slime

[peak epoch]

It didn't take nearly has long to make as it is now, The parts could be traded, but only for other parts so people could swap with other people for the parts they didn't need for parts they needed. All the promotions were the same way like the Crown of Seasons, Cape of Seasons ect. you could trade parts for parts. I made mine w/free keys (you could collect more playing the game more often then) and trading parts pretty quick and used it primarily to mine/fish in the Living Rock Caverns. They could make them look more like the golems within the game. TH got worse over the years I agree on that

[loud elbow]

While I'm glad that the keepsake key will be returned but runecoin and loyalty points should also be returned if you're removing an item from game. I don't want to start a precident that if you buy things you could just end up with nothing if it gets taken away. (Already a bit concerned about that with my auras which I spent thousands of LP on.) I've already bought a few sets of cosmetics from the new marketplace and I'm worried about this.

[crisp coral]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1r5ii1c/left_sharks_the_fishing_outfit/

[woeful ether]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-major-general-ff14-gif-16412005857662078553

That reminds me so much of this lil guy (essentially a fishing skill pet in FFXIV)

[sudden swallow]

I share the same concern. I already very rarely make RuneCoin purchases, but this precedent will stop me from buying cosmetics at all, personally.

I’ve seen an idea floating around which I can get behind; instead of removing items outright, convert them into overrides and refund keepsake keys where applicable.

There’s little reason to remove “immersion breaking” items if they can simply be toggled off by anyone who doesn’t want to see them. Jagex already did the work of implementing a cosmetic toggle, which was meant to address this exact issue. Removing items outright is overkill.

[loud elbow]

I think you make a very good point. The toggle seems to be used by people who want an authentic experience. Just removing them to cosmetic only so that group and just turn it off seems to be a good middle ground.

[versed grail]

if you must curate your experience to have a cohesive world, there is not a cohesive world.

[sudden swallow]

It’s only 1-2 checkboxes. If Jagex turns them on by default, that’d be fine with me. But I’m not okay with cosmetics we spend money on being taken away because Jagex wants to pursue a different art direction for the umpteenth time.

[clever crow]

Its not a good solution to ask people to disable every cosmetics in the game because of a handful of obnoxious ones

"turn off everyone cosmetics so i can use the obnoxious items jagex decided doesnt fit their game"

[sudden swallow]

I’m talking about items slated for removal.

[clever crow]

Yes you are asking for them to turn into cosmetics and ask every player that dislike them to disable every cosmetics

[loud elbow]

I personally don't see any issue with any of the outfits. From my understanding not a lot do. I believe the issue some had were that some cosmetics are not as appealing as others as they fit previous graphical upgrades better. I personally don't believe the identity issue is a player character one but how the general world is. They made a lot of changes to upgrade tree and main cities. My personal concern was removing outfits and not getting anything in return to which you spent real world money on.

[clever crow]

The problem is bigger than that, Jagex decided these items were a mistake and doesnt fit their game, the fact that you paid money for it a while ago doesnt mean its higher priority than what jagex and players want from the game

[sudden swallow]

It’s a terrible precedent to set. How many times has RuneScape changed art styles? If this is established as acceptable, then new leadership or new art crew may decide someday that even new stuff in the marketplace no longer has a place.

[clever crow]

At the end of the day if Jagex judge these items are not fitting their game and are obnoxious its what prevails. What they do for the players that own them is a other issue, refund or whatever

[pulsar drift]

The whole point is that they're looking to stop the switching art styles and commit to a single art style long terms from now on.

[sudden swallow]

You’re appealing to Jagex’s authority in your argument. Does that mean you’d agree with me if Jagex said obnoxious items should stay?

[clever crow]

Yes

[sudden swallow]

Then why are you in a discussion thread for sharing opinions?

[crimson night]

seeing that my suggestion regarding this was removed ill add my feedback and opinion to here. I feel this is a far reach and honestly loved the skilling outfit. ... the solution is simple: give the people who want the new ones, a cosmetic over-ride for the new ones.

Give the people who want these items, their items, dont remove stuff that people own. saying that "flaming skull" is "one particle generator" feels like a sillybilly reason. people still spent runecoins, and or a PREMIERE TOKEN on this item. how many people in reality, actually wear this item 24/7. its a fun hey i have this. lets say 500 people wear this. so 500 people out of 100,000 at least players (based on the mtx vote)
i agree with @umbral ermine 's statement of "being able to look silly is half the fun of an mmo"/ cosmetic freedom is half of the fun of a mmo. (just realized im viewing old msgs ).

but, the "Revamp" is just the same color smacked onto every original outfit? it doesnt feel "Creative" in a sense. IF we had cool replacements that made the skilling outfits FEEL like master skilling outfits. then yeah cool

Its like.... if starbloom/cryptobloom/and all end game armors. were just recolors of their worse variants. Masterwork armor? nah lets just take OG rune armor and make it white and grey. oh wait thats 3A armor .

Punishing 1% of people on something that doesnt apply to every other element in hte game. we literally have ELEMENTAL shield/helmets/and armor, we have a wide range of "weird" and "misplaced" items. in the game. whats stopping 80% of all of the tokens some people paid BILLIONS of gp, THOUSANDS of dollars on, being removed

[clever crow]

But we saw jmods comments for years that these items were a mistake its nothing new, multiple surveys in the last years about that also

[idle aurora]

They're being removed. Thats that.

[sudden swallow]

That’s all well and good until leadership changes. There’s just no way to guarantee that decisions made under North will persist after he moves on.

[clever crow]

I mean wouldnt i agree with it, no, but id respect it if thats what jagex think their game design should be (which they dont)

[versed grail]

it's not "changing art styles" it's "removing things that never fit the extant art style", it's telling that every single thing even near the chopping block traces it's origin directly to MTX and MTX Adjacent things. Outside the MTX, RS3 has never been a bad game or had inconsistent art styles.

[loud elbow]

Let's say we're talking about graphical coherency as a whole. For the player outfits as far as I'm concerned it's a non issue. I'm not exactly sure this is a thing they felt the need to touch. In my opinion updating npc and areas are where people decide if a game is the same game. Or even the combat changes having 3 styles different from necromancy seems odd. More so even if you wanted to change how character outfits look it feels like a bit of a time waste until the new player character models are out. You're already going to have to make visual changes by EOY anyway to make sure they look good on the new models. Ignoring the fact it's a small minority of players who care this whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me as a good use of resources on multiple levels. I love the other changes though so far. I don't think this needs to be as heated as it's getting they're trying to collect suggestions and feedback. lol

[clever crow]

And a lot of players are happy finally its happening

[tired ridge]

Mod North loves runescape (says he plays both versions). If he moves on, I think this version might be cooked

[crimson night]

i somewhat disagree though, we have so many items that are so left field and nobody ever complained about them . its a yolo you like it, you like it, but the most random items are being targeted, SOME OF WHICH, people PAID FOR. and the solution to "replace" them is imo.. more bland than a ice cream that got no flavor

[idle aurora]

Yup. Id say a majority is happy bout it.
Me, i like it but its not like i see my character without cosmetics often.
All i care bout is how my charcter looks not others.

[versed grail]

Jagex has ten years of bad MTX related decisions to deal with, and a big part of that is dealing with the scars in cosmetics. And the players for whom this represents a break in trust, are outnumbered by the number for whom this represents a restoration or creation of trust. And that's ignoring new potential players, because the MTX things being removed have DEMONSTRABLY not attracted a significant playerbase.

[tired ridge]

To me, this re-grounding is just a nice desert after a big, delicious main meal (combat, game balance, dailyscape).

[versed grail]

if you have arguments for why a specific thing on the list to be removed is actually coherently part of Gielinor, make that argument, if your argument is about the value of doing it at all, the time for that was last year

[idle aurora]

Same. So much good stuff. I just dont see why people are complaining bout all the good stuff.

[clever crow]

[sudden swallow]

Untrue. They do change course sometimes when they overcorrect on something.

[idle aurora]

The time to vote has ended. Jagex heard the majority of people wanted this and so theyre doing it.
Only people upset are a vocal minority.

[versed grail]

That's why you can and should make arguments about why something is coherently part of Gielinor, but that's not what any of the arguments against have been so far.

[pulsar drift]

This as a general concept of removal of things isn't an overcorrection.
An overcorrection would be if they're removing things that people believe don't disrupt from the coherant part, which is the thing feedback should be given on.

[idle aurora]

When its warrented, yes. None of the cosmetics changes are an overcorrect.

[sudden swallow]

The vote was for removing Treasure Hunter.

[versed grail]

did you miss all of last year?

[clever crow]

They know that tho, same with the people who came here after they announced Treasure Hunter was removed and they were complaining. They knew they were a minority and still need to keep going forward

[pulsar drift]

There were numerous other surveys as well, outside of the TH vote.

[sudden swallow]

The cosmetic toggle is what came out of the experiments and survey that followed. Don’t get it twisted.

[clever crow]

It was only a first step, to address it quickly

[pulsar drift]

So you think this just came out as someone at Jagex going "Y'know, I hate this cosmetic. Can we delete it" and all the others just went "Yeah sure why not"?

[idle aurora]

The surveys and polls where run long before TH removal.

[sudden swallow]

I was here for all of it.

[clever crow]

So you expressed your oppinions in them right

They took it into account, and still decided to go forward for the health of the game

[sudden swallow]

Yes, of course. And this is an overcorrection. “Reworking” items is vastly different to removing them.

[clever crow]

Tbf i think they are VERY conservative with the cosmetics changes for now, i would remove so much more, i mean overrides regrouding is later but still

[pulsar drift]

Some stuff to make it properly fit would probably require reworking to the degree that the thing is no longer remotely the same thing - at which point what's the point in not just removing it instead (And saving a bunch of work)

[clever crow]

Yeah its a question of how worth it is it also

[crimson night]

so, if you and others agree with this , so why are 4 .. harmless items being removed . if the logic is "i dont care cuz it aint me", then why care that it stays?

I AGREE, mtx being gone is a great change, the cosmetic shop changing, showing the $$ cost, and more, are all great changes. a "restoration or creation of trust ", agree, but that shouldnt be to punish and remove things from people who enjoy what they have. like.. genuinely flaming skull , octopus backpack, and things that we have much... more outlier and wtf items in the game? if this is the case, then 90% of tokens made from 2015 to 2026 should be removed. the argue of particles while having wings that sparkle , while having drakes the size of king kong as companions.

ill quote my feedback cuz i kind of explained it fairly well there but
"if you ARE going to change it, why is it so... lazy? its just a recolor that got copy-pasted to the non-elite versions. magic golem felt cool, your a rock dude for being an elite miner, your a etherial spirit for being one with runecrafting. like... its unique and rewarding to the skills they are for"

I feel like this was a lazy direction to go about removing "elite skilling outfits that correlate to their skill"

And i understand, a lot of peoples opinions.

but why not just make a "old version new version" like they do with skill capes (in terms of the skilling outfits) cuz personally. this just feels like.. .. excuse me if im coming off as rude but. non-creative? its a ELITE skilling outfit with A LOT of work to get. and i get a recolor of the base one?

especially when looking at the cosmetic shop we still have shtuff like the SOUL REAVER? thats literally a "flaming chest and face" but the flaming skull is the issue?
Carmine Necromancer is literally a outfit with a skull helmet. So whats the conclusion for why the flaming skull is being removed. and this applies to other things too.

[sudden swallow]

And that’s why I stand by this middle-ground proposal.

[pulsar drift]

That still has the outstanding issue that
"Cosmetic" and "Non-cohesive visual" are not the same thing

[versed grail]

it is non-creative, because they have TEN YEARS of scars to deal with

[clever crow]

This is far from middle ground, you are telling me i gotta toggle everyone in the game cosmetics off (im a fashionscaper) for you to keep 12 obnoxious items ?

[crimson night]

i understand what your saying, but i think i would agree WAY MORE, if more than 500 people that you will potentially never see, use those "12 obnoxious items"

[clever crow]

You are ruining the game for a lot of people with that solution

[onyx mauve]

them being obnoxious is an opinion, not fact
and not everyone shares it

[umbral ermine]

They should just make it so that you can individually toggle people that you find intrusive. That would give people more control while giving them the power to keep their own cosmetics.

[crimson night]

then why rush to jump instead of saying look, heres what we ARE working on heres some CONCEPT ART and get players feedback on those concept arts. this feels rushed

[versed grail]

if you must curate your experience for a cohesive world you do not HAVE a cohesive world

[idle aurora]

I can hide the obnoxious ones because they are overrides.
I cant hide the skilling outfist. Simple.
The current sugjestions are placeholders. Proper remakes will be made in the future.

Flaming skull is because of the particle effects.
Not the skull itself.

[cinder haven]

We're going in circles again. The 'just make them into cosmetics' suggestion has been beaten to death. It's a bad suggestion and I'm sure Jagex knows that. No point in going on and on about it.

[clever crow]

They think its middle ground

[versed grail]

because there's been words before, there's been promises before, RS3 does NOT have the banked trust for that to work, not anymore.

[idle aurora]

How bout we just nuke all cosmetics that are not earned from in game play or made via keepsake keys.

[clever crow]

Its crazy because it looks like people would be willing to harm the game for 12 cosmetics, jagex remove them just wear something else we have plenty of nice fitting cosmetics

[crimson night]

but theirs a list of outfits with similiear/exact particle effects, same with the octpus back pack and the other outfits. im literally staring at the "soul reaver regalia" outfit that is being sold for runecoins (a lot of them too) that is literally, the same effect as flaming skull, except the whole chest and face.? how many peopel ACTIVELY wear the flaming skull.

the "just wear something else logic @clever crow jsut doesnt work, because how many items will hafto be removed before its too much, its things people earned/ and paid for, that they have collected for years. ID GET IF LIKE . 80% of players had a drake, and it was summoned 24/7 everywhere you go, so you would get annoyed (this was the case years ago while skilling).

But its a ... backpack....... a flaming skul... that one person MIGHTTTTTTT have... yk?

[versed grail]

and every other step being taken MUST be taken more cautiously, with more care, because they are mechanical, because they are about the gameplay. But Cosmetics can simply be removed, you CAN just recolor an old outfit to replace unfitting ones. You CAN be swift. You can do something now to build trust. Likewise, this is why TH was removed with such haste they actually broke Nadir at the same time. There MUST be actions to build trust before there can be trust in words.

[sudden swallow]

It’s wild to me that a fashionscaper is interested in setting the precedent that their items can be taken away because they’re deemed “unfit” for the current art direction.

[idle aurora]

They dont even want the chance at people seeing it. Thats the entire point.
They want people to be able to choose not to see that stuff.

[versed grail]

Not "the current art direction", these were unfitting when introduced

[sudden swallow]

But I’ve said all I have to say on the matter anyway. It’s more than “because Jagex says so” at least.

[clever crow]

100% because i care about the game more ! You care more about your acquired cosmetics

I value integrity more

[sudden swallow]

It’s wrong to say that showing off items and self-expression have not been intrinsically part of RuneScape for forever.

[versed grail]

that is literally not what anyone is saying.

[clever crow]

It is but we need to accept some of that direction was a mistake thats why integrity is happening

They are correcting mistakes, you liming these mistakes doesnt mean they should stay is what we say basically

[crimson night]

but that choice is already provided with a " hide cosmetic over-rides"? confused..

[clever crow]

Thats also what I said to players arguing that Treasure Hunter shouldnt go. You liking TH in Runescape doesnt mean its good for it to stay

[sudden swallow]

Yes. Many of you are defending the precedent that your items can be removed when they don’t fit a world that change and evolves.

[idle aurora]

The items being changed are physical items. Not hideable with the toggle.

[versed grail]

they did not fit when introduced.

[clever crow]

This is far from middle ground, you are telling me i gotta toggle everyone in the game cosmetics off (im a fashionscaper) for you to keep 12 obnoxious items ? (Copied cause already answered the same thing)

[versed grail]

they were not introduced because they fit, they were introduced because MTX needed a constant, massive, inflow of new shiny rewards.

[clever crow]

The cosmetic toggle is not the option for obnoxious / unfitting items in the game

Let players enjoy cosmetics, without the ones on the obnoxious list

Your solution cant achieve that sadly

[sudden swallow]

The toggle also exists because of heavy particles, but those haven’t changed.

[clever crow]

They said they will address them

[idle aurora]

The toggle is the quickest fix they can do before more in depth options

[crimson night]

and how much more is it going to happen and be removed that jagex feels "doesnt fit"

@idle aurora , false, a list of the items also includes the cosmetic over-ride version, and no cosmetic over-ride version was made offered to the people who own the existing items/sets. or similiar to the capes, a "old version vs new version"

And to YOU, and Ceratin people, its "12 obnoxious items" to others, they like the outfits. the middle groudn as stated is to male a "old vs new" or a cosmetic over-ride /alternate version for it. Just like the "old black trimmed/gold trimemd/rune trimmed armor sets" available with runecoins (shoulda been loyalty points but hey.

@versed grail , we already had a massive inflow of shiny rewards irrelevant too outfi releases

"Let players enjoy cosmetics withoutthe ones on the obnoxious list" = Let me enjoy cosmetics without theones that i dislike. LMFAO?

well cuz so many people dislike the drake flying in ur face when ur skilling lets just remove it too? you dont get refunds for your big drake and it gest shrank to the size of every other pet or removed
OH, cuz i dont like your 10 billion dyes, i want that removed too, cuz the particles on it make it not feel "origional to runescape" to have someone iced out."

The logic your implicating comes off as selfish

[sudden swallow]

Hard disagree. But we are indeed going in circles so much so that there’s copy/pasting happening. So, I’m moving on.

[clever crow]

How does your solution achieve letting players have cosmetics on for everyone and not see the items on obnoxious list ?

[tired ridge]

Will find out in about 12 hours on where Jagex stands so, not long now 🙂

[idle aurora]

They're being changed. Thats that.

[versed grail]

@crimson night when every reward needed to come from somewhere in Gielinor, those rewards had to fit, and so they did, when SoF and then TH happened rewards no longer needed to have an origin, and so many of them didn't, and so many of them didn't need to fit, and since MTX needed rewards absent anything else, the pace accelerated.

[clever crow]

I want cosmetics on, all of my clan have nice fashionscape, i dont want to see the obnoxious items your solution doesnt work, your are forcing them on people that asked for a change, and jagex recognized they were unfitting and a mistake, what else do you want

[idle aurora]

Honestly. my ideal toggle would be letting me go through a list and manualy disable every offending cosmetic.

[versed grail]

when you must curate your experience for a cohesive world there is not a cohesive world

[idle aurora]

Mostly wings and things with obnoxious particle effects. And weird walk animations.

[crimson night]

i agree, i liked having cool rewards from cool events, not just tken over-ride stack-farm and fill up 10000 slots in my bank (obv exadurated idc the spelling lmao), but im speaking about the double standard that is clear even now. Remove XYZ cosmetics, but also keep a cosmetic with THE SAME "particle effects" thats ACTIVELY being sold right now.?

"my clan have nice fashionscape" but what if to a percent of people, it wasnt nice, so do you want those items removed? your logic is clearly bias based on your view of whats "nice", and "not nice"

[crimson night]

thats why you /others voice their opinions, because removing things people paid for gives the ok to continue to allow things that people paid for to be removed, and theirs no line being set on that front

[clever crow]

100% agree but they rather have the cosmetics

[versed grail]

@crimson night you're not wrong that they probably shouldn't be selling that one, but there's a LOT of cosmetics, so I'm not exactly surprised.

[idle aurora]

We already voiced our opinion with all the surveys and polls.

[severe sleet]

and they asked us to voice our opinons, again, here which is what we are doing key

[pulsar drift]

On specific cosmetics, not on the overall concept of them being removed/updated.

[versed grail]

and if anyone has any reasons that a cosmetic being removed is actually grounded or another one that should be on the list that'd be useful

[crimson night]

we are speaking about cohesive as we have a....... cat with wings and glasses being sold for $19.00 USD, we are speaking about such a small % of players choice for things that literally affects ..... 5%? (IM SPEAKING purely about the cosmetic removal atm)

on the SKILLING OUTFIT FRONT, if they show PROPER, COOL, and UNIQUE replacements, i wouldnt......... care as much, just give is the old variants as cosmetic over-rides. its player choice after all.

[tired ridge]

Need to remember they are trying to get new/returning people too, who didn't/aren't partaking in these discussions. They can't just ignore those potential players either.

[versed grail]

the MTX stuff demonstrably did not attract new players

[crimson night]

which surveys and pols, they email me about every poll, never got a poll of "hey do you want us to remove things that you paid for, not once, but three times?" now DONT GET ME WRONg, MTX removal was a huge W, and i like the changes (minus the bonus exp paywall thing)

[versed grail]

all of last year, I heard about them even though I'd been fully unplugged for two years.

[rugged tapir]

This is reminding me of eoc, oh ppl dont play the game cause combat is boring, changed combat, idk if those new players ever came until they released osrs, which prove the issue was the eoc combat all along

maybe it's important to idk listen to current players too, lol

[idle aurora]

The 5-6 that ran last year

[severe sleet]

I will say this, more osrs players playing rs3 doesnt make jagex more money if 2000 osrs subs start playing rs3 and 20 rs3 players stop subbing entirely, they lost money

[versed grail]

I doubted it'd go anywhere until the TH removal poll admittedly.

if 20 rs3 players stop playing and 40 lapsed players come back on the other hand

[severe sleet]

thats a big if, you already got 20rs3 players, but you cannot guarentee that you will get any lapsed players

[versed grail]

(Hi, I'm a lapsed player coming back because of these changes)

[idle aurora]

Losing 20 players only to gain 100+ because the game is better in the long run seems like a good trade off to me.

[severe sleet]

it would only be a good trade off if it was 100+ new subs

[rugged tapir]

not listening to players about eoc caused about 25% to 80% of players to quit. it's important to listen to all players

[tired ridge]

This game has been haemorrhaging players for years. It's either get new players in or it goes into maintenance mode.

[versed grail]

we've had ten years of Jagex not listening to players about MTX, this IS listening to players.

[clever crow]

Yes thats what they did they listened to us, now they are removing the mistakes. They listen and fix the game with integrity, its going the right direction

[rugged tapir]

I guess you missed the point about all players, even those that disagree with what you might think

[clever crow]

No theres always unhappy people with changes its normal

[rugged tapir]

they said that about eoc too ig

[sudden swallow]

Pretty much this. I feel like people voicing their opinion against a planned change are being told to "deal with it" or they're saying it's already done.

Which is not only fallacious because nothing is set in stone, but it appeals to Jagex's authority purely because it currently suits their opinion. Ezyon ouright admitted they wouldn't use Jagex in their argument if they were on my side of things.

It's unproductive. I'm not engaging with folks who approach discussion like that.

[clever crow]

Yes but this time they listen to the majority that expressed thwir oppinions for the last years

[sudden swallow]

This is a thread for discussion. Not attempting to shut discussion down by appealing to authority.

[severe sleet]

oh there is so many people in here that seem to just be here to tell us to give up and roll over. its horribly unproductive and unhealthy for the game

[kindred plaza]

And yet we still have no metrics about who's in the "majority" or the "minority"

[crimson night]

ive also been semi-unplugged but check my emails consistantly which include polls , but your acting like 12 cosmetics would make hundreds of people flock to the game? its also the triple double standard
osrs getting the same goofy cosmetics
RS3 having the same "goofy cosmetics" also in the game AS WE SPEAK being sold.

The combat change? EOC i liked the idea of having a more natural flowing combat, but that was a split between people. im excited to play dragonwilds tbh... and new world felt like runescape 4. if that makes sense? (RIP 🫡 )

I agree the game needs new players, you are all correct, but removing "12 annoying cosmetics" as deemed by one player because his fashion is not these 12 things, is to gut and remove em.

Regarding the cosmetic removals as stated, just make them over-rides for the... 500 players who want to use the flaming skull, i dont use it because i dont have the cosmetic over-ride version because keepsake key(S) are expensive.

Regarding the skilling outfits. come up with actually feels good replacements, i saw people using LITERALLY AI in 5 minutes to make a set that feels more natural for master runecrafter. than this random mess they made .

And, you can make a option to use the "older outfit"

LETS BE REAL LMFAO, how many times are you going to see people waltzing around in elite div armor? near zero, how many people will you see while your RUNECRAFTING? oh common, zero. ikyk it.
Same with theiving, same with mining, alll these are super niche instances that are being made to look like OMFG every single player is walking around like a zombie army with these outfits with 10 million particles and blinding my eyes

[rugged tapir]

yeah, all I see is jagex says this or they want this because of this to bring back players. The failure of eoc was that those that disagreed with it were ignored. There is a middle ground and hopefully that doesn't get ignored

[versed grail]

12 cosmetics? 12? there's over 60 items in the blog, over 50 of them are important skilling items worn while engaging in activity. MY most common use of overrides is so that when I'm runecrafting I don't have to see the infinity ethereal outfit as much, we haven't even gotten to the part where adress actual overrides. There's FAR FAR FAR more than "12 cosmetics".

[sudden swallow]

100% agreed.

[crimson night]

i agree, EOC could be cool and still can be. i felt runescape combat needed a cool change. and tbh... new world /rs dragonwilds, combat looks good

[clever crow]

No all of your arguments for keeping cosmetics have been shut down since the beginning by multiple different people, its just circling , we get it you are angry

[crimson night]

im reffering to the person referencing it as "12 annoying cosmetics" i read the blog and i saw:
5 items being removed
the skilling outfits are being changed

you can provide a source for 60+ items. that were mentioned in the blog. cuz im going based on the things ive seen in the blog on the website

[versed grail]

they are changing the creature helms, there's 50+ of those alone

[crimson night]

and issue #3 becomes, whats jagex gonna do, start altering and removing every cosmetic that passes a percent of players i dont want it meter? cosmetics people got.

@versed grail the slayer helmets are just miner tweaks from what they showed, i didnt see the changes to all of them, and cmon lets be honest most of em are ugly anyways lmfao
IN FACT: im FOR elite skilling helmets looking different/ and being able to be "trophy mounted" when you got it done

[versed grail]

the elite skilling outfits between the pieces and subvariants are also countable as ANOTHER 50+ if you really break it down.

[sudden swallow]

If you're talking about slayer helms, there are nowhere close to 50.

[versed grail]

they are altering/removing things that do not fit, not that do not fit a "new direction" things that do not fit, things that did not fit when they were added as part of the careless infinite content mill MTX required.

[torn creek]

Ill miss my shark outfit but I fully understand why they are doing it

[crimson night]

well i count each outfit as 1.. thats just stretching out imo with that logic. i agree, slayer helms can/should be made cooler.

they are literally removing items as shown on the blog, and it ONLY will start here. removing things that people paid for despite other items violating that logic.

if thats the case, why dont we rework light form as that LITERALLY is the most blinding prayer during skilling when everyoens shining gold out their feet? but nah a mask that 500 people POTEINTIALLY USE? nah that breaks the game cuz of particles while we have a list of helmets and outfits that do the same/worse

[muted herald]

I like the rock golem outfit and the sentinel outfit

[versed grail]

they are going to rework light form? and dark form? those have been in focus as well

[crimson night]

PEMDAS is really off on this rework then imo LMAO.

[idle aurora]

I know they are looking at tweaking light form.
Definitly agree that a flat 50% pickpocket sucsess rate increase when the next best thing is like 10% is kinda op

[versed grail]

those are a numbers thing, the graphics are getting looked at

[idle aurora]

Oooh. Yeah they are definitly an eyesore
Light form especally

[clever crow]

Even magma tempest could be toned down a bit

[pulsar drift]

I feel like that's the kind of thing that would be okay on just your version to be clear it's active, but tone down other people's by like 50% or something. Personal vs general spell effects is a very handy thing to be able to adjust

[crimson night]

and this is what i mean. it seems that the vocal "majority" of "active players who think that removing 4 items is gonna fix the game", but people coming back cuz of the mtx changes/just in general and now u see the real opinions come out.

TLDR , dont take peoples things that they paid for while also actively pushing similiarly designed cosmetics in your store.

IF u gonna replace something, make it feel worth the replacement, the current "replacements" feel like a joke of a "replacement" and imo dont scream "ELITE skilling outfit that you spent hours to get" 80 in skills, then invention, then farm the fragments, hunting outfit ya gotta farm the papers too.

Allow people to have the "old" option. just like the old capes ?

[idle aurora]

They spesificly said that these changes are placeholders while they work on proper ones.
And again. They are going to be looking at the overrides to.
The physical items are just first beacuse they dont have a way to be hidden.

[clever crow]

Yes theres a lot of stuff still to be done. Stuff like that will probably need to go too

The drakewing outfit etc, aviansie outfit. Plenty of other stuff will be addressed later in the regrounding overrides update

[kindred plaza]

All of those listed were bought with runecoins, directly bought with real money, I feel li ke that's a legal minefield

[versed grail]

not more of a legal minefield than banning someone

[clever crow]

No they can totally do it dont worry,

They will refund runecoins spent on them most likely,you bought runecoins not directly the outfit with money, and even if that was the case they could

[versed grail]

spending money in games has always been very... there's no warranty

[crimson night]

then i can agree with that. i just keep hearing its because of XYZ reason your items are being taken, IF its ok, you earned them, we will give you cosmetic over-rides for the items we are removing, and or make it avail for free for those who like it. i really dont see how a "octopus backpack" hurts gameplay", i also dont see how a "flaming skull" is bad its not like theirs a army of people with flaming skulls running around and flooding peoples screen

does that mean we are losing the ring of trees, and all ring-overrides, as well as drakes, and companions that are so big that it destroyes peoples screens whe n w84 lumby was the skill spot? like... cosmetics from 20 years ago like the easter ring that turns you into a egg. we removin that?

[idle aurora]

You're really jumping to alot of wild conclusions here.

[clever crow]

Technically you dont even own your account and any items on it, only Jagex does, officially

[crimson night]

i dont think i am, the logic is that "these things hurt my eyes and dont look appealing to me and i deem it as disrpustive so thats why i want it gone" logic ive seen shared w/ a few people
The logic that the flaming skull has "too many particles" is why its being removed
but yet a ring that turns you into a giant ass tree that blocks people screens? yes! that is amazing.
drakes that fly in your face in a ton of skilling aeas? we love that despite people to my recollection always hating people who trolled with that during w84 lumby days, and or skiling areas
but the priority seems to be........... removing a octopus backpack, mimic helm (But we have hween masks and all kinds of random helmets)?
im just.. not understanding the way that these conclusinos are being made

edit* and the issue also becomes, is how much stuff will be deemed as " too many particles" when we have over 1,000+ tokens at this point, with some of the CRAZIEST cosmetics."
What about the disco outfit that people spent hundreds of millions of gp/and thousands of keys on? to get the "infinity gauntlet" of disco outfits, to make the disco outfit.
EDIT 2: IF we complaining about particles, what about the whole desert treasure armor set(S) where your literally .. on fire/ice/smoke(S)
but my point, is that..... how many people reallllllly use these items, that its being removed from the people who actively chosoe to seek them
And as i mentioed prior/fowarded from my "game suggestion", these item removals seem kinda.. reaching.

the skill outfits, are really cool, and i get some peoples conccerns, so let people have a "old vs new" and show us PROPER, ACTUALLY BAD ASS skilling oufits. but ey, thats my take.

cuz imo... this aint it. i gladly pick the left one. because its unique, its cool, its rewarding, has cool animations, and its a FISHING SET. a MASTER fishing set. now if you told me it was the "runecrafting set" id laugh . .. and its not that wild compared to some of the cosmetics we have in the game. can be a wolf/dog/cerberus/cat/monkey/ a outfit where your LITERALLY a sand person... and many more. its O K to have unique outfits for unique things. and honestly, would be cool to have other skill "skilling outfits" have elite versions" prayer elite, combat elite already exists in a way. elite construction oufit i hope comes with 120 construction. just my take(S)

[versed grail]

my second most frequent use of overrides, is to make my character stop trying to drown themselves

[pulsar drift]

Technically we already have an "elite" construction outfit from Contracts.

[crimson night]

i havent played in a while so im just putting stuff out there so i may not be 10000% right. im just talking about through invention and allat. (came back about 5 months ago ish atp)

[glass vessel]

I think the majority of people would like to wear the "after" version as their fishing skilling outfit, making ya look like a dad in his 40s at the local fishing pond lmaooo

But the fury shark one is also cool, and for people who very much enjoy running around as a superhero shark, it would be cool to see it as smth customizable
Like you can code a silly quest around it with a guy at Piscatoris getting into that getup running around and get the shark customasible thing as a reward or smth idk xD

[pulsar drift]

New fishing method where a wizard transforms you into a shark to go and fish whilst avoiding obstacles underwater :^)

[glass vessel]

Optimal skilling method
Become shark

[crimson night]

i think the after version needs to feel more unique not just a reskin of the base outfit is what im saying, and heard that they are finding better options.
But exactly. dont even need a quest but. whats wrong with a shark dude when we have much sillier and weird ass cosmetics.

Plus we already have "animation overrides" for fishing/skilling. mining with dynamite/magic for example

[dawn sparrow]

The fury shark outfit is 100% better than what they are planning to replace it with. Those who have problem with it should get an option to override it.

[crimson night]

i forgot where i saw it but someone made a AI master runecrafting outfit that looked x100 cool

heres the outfits side by side by side (most)
they all feel like they make sense for their elements (ok runecraftig one can change but like.. ) the dungeoneering one looks WICKED! the camoflauge one? makes PERFECT SENSE, your a master theiver, your invisible, your unseen cuz your so stealthy
Divination? you are LITERALLY RAW DIVINATION ENERGY.... that can only be obtained by hitting over 80 in the skill and being a ELIETE skiller...

[glass vessel]

True
Ya gotta think that overall adventurers in Gielenor are all running around getting up to stupid stuff, it's not unthinkable that there are adventurers who see Dragonkin or Aviansie and are like "these guys are based, I want to look like them", or they go goblin mode painting themselves green or smth

[glass vessel]

So for me personally only the most left one looks just downright ugly
But the rest looks pretty fuckin sick
Specially that most right one

[crimson night]

like... ... the div outfit i just look like a nerd with a recolored base divination oufit. doesnt make me feel "elite". the runecraftig one the master runecrafter one just got the same red/yellow paint. IF they said these are temporary until they can show off better designs, and we will let people have a option of "old vs new" option. then 10,0000% sign me up.

[glass vessel]

Needs a bit more grandeur

[crimson night]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1r5pr91/since_were_complaining_about_cosmetics_in_rs3/ idk if we can post links but .. someone explained how i feel about the outfit removals really well

[idle aurora]

They are placeholders till proper dev time can be alocated to make new outfits.

[crimson night]

LMFAO. but lets remove the flaming skull oto backpack and all thse other cosmetics

[dawn sparrow]

This abomination is fine, but shark hurts their immersion.

[glass vessel]

Ah yes that's fair
By then they'll have cooked up smth better

[glass vessel]

Hahahaha
Not the fish daddy 😭 🤣
That is so ugly it's hilarious

[crimson night]

that is my point, how many people will be these "Abomations" its funny its stupid its silly. let people be , its a game to have fun and do stuff. but they sittin here pickin at peoples items and removing em with no solution to make all parties happy. oh waow refund a keepsake key (IF YOU KEEPSAKED IT) for the item your yoinking from me, but everyone else, youuuuuuuu... eat it. i literally used a PREMIERE TOKEN iirc, to get the flaming skull. i also think i got the one w/runecoins. i remember the one being a premiere club reward back then. I WOULD BE OK if they said ok we will give you a FREE cosmetic over-ride if you own it, and make it free/buyable* in the shop if people want it .

i cannot find my feedback post, but a lot of these items are really not ... that... bad... at all.......... and the reason for removal seems just so random and nowhere near making sense when looking at other cosmetics/existing ones. REMOVAL, not... replace btw.

[rigid gull]

About the Octopus Backpack, what issues does it have that makes it so bad that they feel the need to remove it? We have other items that are animals that we equip, like the Monkey Hats or Crab Hat.

[glass vessel]

I think that we all just gotta admit that some people in MMORPGs love to role-play the ugliest characters you've ever seen, and no matter how many cosmetic options you remove, by golly they'll find a way

[versed grail]

there's a meaningful difference between "I have taken a number of reasonable outfits and made an unreasonable combination" and "this outfit is independently unreasonable". And, of course, that doesn't account for Overrides are, in fact, on the roadmap, and if that's a pile of overrides it's entirely possible that every one of those outfits is independently terrible and will be removed as well.

[glass vessel]

Yeah but some people here use the argument of reddit screenshots of uggolympic players mixandmatching outfits sometimes to say they agree with removing fury shark it feels like

[versed grail]

...fury shark, is, indeed, an example of "this outfit is independently unreasonable". if you have a pile of reasonable outfits you have mix and matched into unreasonability that doesn't make the reasonable outfits now unreasonable, and if you've taken unreasonable outfits and mix and matched them into reasonability, that doesn't make the unreasonable outfits reasonable

and every person I've seen posting that one has been posting it to argue that fury shark isn't unreasonable

[crimson night]

exactly, so whats the difference between:
flaming skull
and gear such as soul regalia. they say its because of it being a "mess of pixels or whatever the reason is"

[wispy token]

Item version of skull circumvents current cosmetic toggle

[crimson night]

theirs multiple versions and all of them are being removed. REMOVED , not fixed. and the keepsaked/cosmetic over-ride variants are also being removed so that isn the reason, same with the other items.

[versed grail]

it's an override and the roadmap has that being adressed relatively shortly but not right now

frankly, given that my immediate reaction to seeing that was "is that a high end necro armor" I think it's more of an argument that they aren't going far enough

[crimson night]

The following items either have too many issues associated with them, or have a particularly insurmountable issue. These problems make their continued existence alongside our visual standards no longer viable and they will be removed from the game.

Should you have any of these keepsaked, the keepsake key will be returned to you:

Flaming Head and Flaming Skull items
Zodiac Costumes
Mimic Helm
Octopus Backpack
Super Disco Outfit
Infected Zombie Outfit

this is word for word what the blog says. and the reasoning is just.. flat vague, when we have many items that match it and or no solution is being offered. just.. yoinked. because its "visual standards" as we have items that match it. this is my biggest issue with this whole entire update and thing.

skilling outfit is 2nd place

slayer helms are ugly anyways, and i hope we see better replacements

[woven glade]

My take on fury shark is

Why do I, a master fisherman, suddenly toss aside all the skills and techniques I've earned in my long journey to out of nowhere transform into a shark man and stick my head into the water to eat the fish directly?

It doesn't seem like a good representation of said skill or my mastery of it at all. The game makes no attempt to explain why, mostly because it was haphazardly made for a TH promotion and then slapped onto invention bench later when they realized "its bad that TH users are inherently better at fishing than other players".

We've not even been given hints that sharkmen exist in the setting. And now every high level fishing spot is filled with sharkmen. Is that a good part of the visual experience of the game?

For the elite outfits, they're often at most tangentially related and genuinely kinda bad looking. I support wanting to move away from them.

For slayer masks, they're just redoing them to be in the way masks used to be done. See chicken outfit head, or frog mask, or treasure trail masks, or the bear helm, and so on. Human beneath wearing a piece of outfit.

For the particles, they're just being toned down on a few items.

[woven glade]

• flaming skull is a transformation with massive particles. Thats two violations that you can't really fix becaues they're at the core of the item
• Infected Zombie Outfit, in particular last stage, is outright not a costume but a transformation into a mangled corpse.
• Zodiac costumes increase your visual footprint massively more than any other items in the game. They're ridiculously big.

All those 3 makes sense to change, at least as long as they are items.

[crimson night]

this is why they can offer the otpions like the old/new like they did with skill capes, thats why/how you can be happy, and then, people who like the fury shark can be the fury shark. and thats if you use the consume option. if you use any of the end game rods then that doesnt occur. the crystal rod/rod o matic(S)S and any rod. its when you harpoon iirc that it does that " fish eating thingy"

"every high lvl fish spot is filled with sharkmen" theirs like 2-3 fish spots and most people have over-rides anyways every month members get free over-rides. and like is aid im ALL FOR proper, new, and good feeling elite outfits, but should still have its OG ones as a option for those who care for it, and it wouldnt he a good look to have 1000 people looking the same NO matter the outfit. so unless they make a customize-able elite outfit per skill. your going to run into that problem.
"
slayer makes, i agree and would love a cool change, and once you get the "full helm" you can get a like.. mountable trophy in a slayer room in your house

the "toned down particle" thing still confuses me, because ....... its a reason being used to remove something people paid for. whether premiere or runecoins OR BOTH. ON TOP of keepsake?

i really dont see or understand prioritization. GIANT tree ring that playres intentionally spamm to harrass people = YES LETS KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS, GRAND , UNIQUE, AMAZING!. drakes that flood the screen? oooooooo yesh. thats good too we have WAY WORSE culprites and the reasons provided IMO are just.. silly if you ask me. We have a list of hween outfits, why is this one affected. Zodiac costume? how often is it really used, how many people ACTUALLY have it, and its a fun little thing people use ONCE in a blue moon. but its being treated as if its visually sabotaging like the trees/drakes

they could easily have provided solution(S) to all the items they are removing. nor do i see it as necessary as people make it seem it needs to be esp in comparison to a list of items

[torn creek]

original message was deleted

[woven glade]

most people have over-rides anyways

I'm playing with cosmetics toggled off. I can't stop seeing sharkmen if I go fishing because they made the look tied to best in slot gear for the skill. Its the most common look when fishing.

It frankly looks incredibly out of place and silly and shouldn't have been the visual for anything thats core progression.

Do note that there is a reason the blog is all about physical items. Because this round is about addressing actual physical items that look off regardless of whether you have cosmetics toggled or not.

[crimson night]

this will be exactly the issue no matter what outfit you make it. THUS why i said, unless you have a literal customize-able set. then thats always going to be the issue. period. no matter how much outfits you make. youll ahve a army of soldiers near any skilling spot, that when you remove the tool to CHANGE that "wall of repetition", your partially, AT FAULT for that.

[woven glade]

I don't mind it if people look similar or same, if said look is warranted. If I go to place where people are doing cooking, and most people are wearing chefs outfit, thats fine. Said outfit is fully reflective of the current activity and makes sense as the widespread look for someone doing that.

Shark isn't. I'd not mind fishermen at the fishing spot. I do mind sharkmen.

The issue isn't repetition. Its what is being repeated.

[crimson night]

but as you can see thats obviously an opinionated comment. If you look above, some people like certain outfits some people dont . so why not offer "original" vs "new" , aka the optimal route. aka the win win win. and youd allso break the repeittion. and i see nothing wrong with almost all the skilling outfits

[woven glade]

Frankly I don't care if they keep original in cosmetics because then I'd at least be rid of it.

I just don't want to see shark men or infinity ethereal or any of those awful outfits as part of core progression when I got cosmetics toggled off. I'll take repetition over any of those.

I genuinely think none of them fit the game and it was a mistake said visuals was ever added in the first place.

[crimson night]

i think a lot of them are nice and match being an elite skiller, you already have out-of-the-norm outfits that are accepted, but this is somehow diff?

you also are forgetting how the 99 capes/120 capes work. you can pick which one/version you want to have on display.. this would break and leave it upto the player choice.

a lot of them fit. especially when we have literall "elemental armours", we have "ice armour dyes" and all kinds of "unrealistic armours" that im sure i can find plenty more once i look into all the tokens we have.

so is the solution to jsut remove what ever is deemed as "eh" by some people? even "non-comsetic token oufits" exist.

the particle thing also makes zero sense as ive explaiend above too

[idle aurora]

Its not about "unrelistic" its about not fitting the game world and looking out of place.

[woven glade]

Particle thing makes sense if you read the blog.

They're not removing particles, they're toning down particles on the items in the particle section. The idea of reducing obnoxious particles should be evident to anyone why it makes sense.

[crimson night]

so we have a list of armours and items in the game that "look out of place" and many examples have been shown, but for some reasons these 5? are being targeted as out of place

disco set? we have sleeping cap, and flared pants that literally have a CUSTOM EMTOE associated with them since like.. early 2000?
Zombie set? we have a list of halloween themed/ghost/plague zombie/ and many other cosmetics

Toning down particles? have you seen strykewyrm/infernal mining wildy event? you cant see because every person and their mums got necromancer on and theirs 10000 ghosts anywhere. Same with the tree ring. which seem TO ME to have a 1000x worse "impact" then a item being a lil shiny. I would love a before/after to see what the concern is

[woven glade]

For the argument about elemental armors or ice armour dyes, those have done much better job at groundwork for themselves or just fitting into the game aesthetically.

I do see some pull the argument of there being silly things in the game, or the game is fantasy. But the setting being fantasy is not equivalent to thus anything goes.

Or to cite the blog.

Grounding refers to making the world feel cohesive and consistent within the outline above. Having magic with a fantasy world does not mean that just about anything goes - instead, we want to maintain that all things within Gielinor should make sense for our unique world.

[idle aurora]

Yes we do. But those are all overrides that can be turned off.
They will get there cleanup pass in the future.

[woven glade]

I've seen said strykewyrm events and people by and large agree the visual effects on things like magma tempest need to be toned down, and the ability to hide other people's conjures due to how messy it is.

That rainbow dye suggestion there is incredibly garish and I very much do not like it.

[idle aurora]

Plus a pair of flared trousers fits more than a walking vascular system.

[clever crow]

100% like these are only the first step there are sooo many other items that will need to be toned down, overrides are next soon

[idle aurora]

I guarentee that with the api update there will be a plugin to hide players if jagex themselves dont do something about it

[crimson night]

yes, and ive read that, but im struggling to see the Greenlight vs redlight reason for a list of items, as explaiend above and i have no poblem explaining again to make things clear. sometimes i dont explain proper/too many msgs to scroll thru yada yada.

we have a list of "pet backpacks" and random backpacks , we have clauwdia, and a bunch of RANDOM ASF pets/backpacks/and items in the game. No solution has been provided to remediate things for playres who 1. paid. 2 earned these items. i agree, make them a over-ride = good. plus IIRC the disco outfit IS A OVERRIDE cuz i have the emerald one in my bank.

and its not garish, its pointing out how its about "fantasy"a nd all of that and about over-the-top things, i picked the fastest example i can provide and your taking it as a insult instead of a conversation.

[clever crow]

Light form, magma tempest, multiple summons/conjures

[woven glade]

For what its worth, I think disco outfit is the outlier in this, and the mimic helmet. Those I could see staying, even if I don't enjoy either of them. Disco outfit is worse on guys than girls, and the helmet at least show a guy inside. Though ideally if they do stay just make them cosmetic overrides so I can skip seeing em.

[woven glade]

Do note for the "we have X on the list why isn't Y on the list", you have to make sure you're talking about physical items and not comparing to overrides.

Physical items for obvious reasons will have stricter standards. Blog is all about physical items.

[versed grail]

roadmap has overrides later and personally I very much hope they hold them to at least as strict standards

[clever crow]

A lot of people are expecting the same yes

[crimson night]

another example of over-the-topness and "out of placeness". i wonder how much money/gold/etc people spent on the COSMETIC OVERRIDE disco outfit. and mimic helmet. same for the flame skull and all these items.

the argument presented is "its not a over-ride its a physical item, is just.. huh? if that was really the issue, make them cosmetic over-rides and leave people alone and everyone would be happy. that is what 90% of the convo is here.

its: "i dont like seeing this and i wanna be able to hide it"
the solution = make it an optional for players, skilling outfits? old vs new
the "removed items", just give cosmetic over-rides for those who own it, and for those who want it, make it free later on (for the octopus etc cuz i hear those were obtainaed not ruencoins)

For the flaming skull, it was BOTH physcal and cosmetic.

And yeah, these are physical items as well that im mentioning. pudding hats? xmas tree hats? list of all these items that people collect.

the conversation was "out of place designs" as the "reason" for these cosemetics to be removed.
the conversation was also, "over-pixelated outfits" but its being made to be imo that its every single player, and their moms brothers sisters and more. when in reality lets be honest. i can prob count the amount of people who used the cosmetics i can prob fit on my finger(S). so why are we going so hard on them? ive seen more tree-tokens than desert treasure outfits + flaming skulls + octopus backpacks(i dont even remember seeing them) + more x1000

EDIT: its called "Emerald suit token" but thats the same as the disco set having the different tiers and stuff (so i was wrong on the disco suit having a cosmetic override sorry but it should)

[clever crow]

God damn thats the reason you also need to fix overrides, this is innacceptable, surely wings are deleted and walk overrides toned down

[crimson night]

the issue is, what if i tell you/told you, 90% of that outfit is NOT overrides.

[clever crow]

The wings are, the christmas suit is both physical and override

[crimson night]

in fact i think a lot of the holiday stuff should be cosmetic over-ride and let us clear our banks out 0_0 (or if you unlock a full set of a cosmetic you can get the override variant)

[clever crow]

And make them wearable during its specific holiday season

[late pumice]

Holiday items can go to diango

[woven glade]

Holiday items can be eaten by a dingo (I jk I jk)

[crimson night]

yeah but im saying that, you cannot unkeepsake and keep the key (but i can be wrong plz correct me on that), and some items have tokens some items have physical, this whole convo is how physical out-of-touch look = bad or certain cosmetic = bad. but i have a fewexamples of what i mean:
the old skeleton outfit
ceremonial robes/dragon ceremonial
Tzhaar whip
all these "level scaling weapons from diango"
the random katana (S) that are from premiere?
these should all have cosmetic over-rides,

Monkey cape = fine and physical boogie bow = fine and accpetable
octapus cape? not fine
a literally BROKEN HEART item is ok (jagex u bettter not take that too -_-)

i just dont see the process of elimination

Also further addition i ahve TWO, yes,, TWO flaming skulls
as shown here: that i obtained/paid/earned. its one of my favorite unique helms in the game. because its unique, cool, and in a world of FANTASY AND MAGIC, it seems how it can make sense, we can cast fire spells, have a skeleton outfit in the shop, and a flaming VFX outfit in the shop CURRENTLY, so i still dont see its explanation(S) for not being a cosmetic item.
The disco top? should be if ya own it, you have it unlocked as a cosmetic over-ride. and be able to earn it from somewhere to get the other colors.

[crimson night]

like these reasons listed seem so ... out of place. when we literally have how many people ACTUALLY using these items. when we already have all these other goofy items as you can see in my pic above. transformation tokens out the wazoo and more. and i feel like this is just hte beginning, and their wont be a limit too it either. is the tzhaar whip next because its too out of touch? like whats the "qualifier" yk?

for example, in all my time playing, ive only seen TOTAL between ALL of those cosmetics, not even 10 people using em. but idk why its being portrayed as, omfg everyone is using these items please get them away and make them stop my eyes are bleaching. ive seen more trees and pile of gold memers than any of these combined x100

[idle aurora]

Anyone that has keepsaked these items will get the key refuned upon the change.

[crimson night]

i think you misread what i said/explained. i was talking about holiday items in that specific instance of the keepsake key, ik they will refund th ekey, but the deletion of a item when its not even that visiually overwhelming, as if 10,000 people are wearing and parading with it, as if our capes dont have the exact same effect?

[clever crow]

Are you saying this is not visually overwhelming ?

One player wearing that is too much

[crimson night]

sorry very much but i find a list of other things WAY MORE overwhelming than 1 person out of 10,000 using a flaming skull, can easily provide a override to people who are interested in it, and it seems to ME that thats a YOUR opinion thing, when we literally have a list of people using way worse items/cosmetics/and more.

so the guy spewing heart clouds is just as fine? (honestly sick fit)

or the ring that lets you spawn into a tree and block half the game?
or the pets that are the size of godzilla and block people from seeing/accessing portables/banks/and more?

[clever crow]

You dont like it but the oppinion that this specific helm is overwhelming is vastly shared, enough for them to delete it. Yes the medallion that makes purple hearts need to go too

[crimson night]

thats not the reason they stated that its being removed and your reaching lmao. literally explained how its such a rarely seen cosmetic but its apparently a issue to only ezyon, so lets remove it

while also contradicting your own statement prior "IDC if it stays as long as its a cosmetic override"
i care because i dont like it"

[woven glade]

The amulet spewing heart clouds is straight up in the blog and will have particles reduced. (Its being considered not fine)

[clever crow]

If you think this is an issue only for me idk how we can even continue this conversation,

[clever crow]

I NEVER said i dont care if it stays as long as its cosmetic override wtf ?

[wheat raptor]

(to be fair they are toning down the medallion's particle effects)

Tbh as someone who plays multiple MMOs I feel the issue is that the particle effects in rs3 are incredibly overwhelming, sure other mmos have plenty of goofy cosmetics but the style consistency and in some cases worldbuilding/series lore actually grounds them and attaches them to the game

[clever crow]

I specifically said i dont even want any of them to stay as override

[crimson night]

youv eliterally stated "my clan and i have great fashionscape so skrew everyone elses fashion cuz we like what we have", so yeah, the way you talk about it , it is only a you issue, you aint gonna talk about how often you ACTUALLY SEE the items beign removed, and not gonna be realistic about how many people ACTUALLY use these things. then your equally the problem at hand. its fine when its your cosmetics, but not fine when its nobody elses LMAO

[woven glade]

Just a bit strange its being used as a counterexample when its very much a thing thats also being changed for the exact same reason as skull.

[crimson night]

skulls being removed, not changed, and i simply went to the GE to find someone w/ a ring of tree, i dont even know what the amulet was called, but his lantern is just as full of vfx, and so are a list of other items at the GE. look at ANY 120 cape as well. has vfx shadows and so many oher examples that if i took the time to compile, i can and would/could.

[woven glade]

Skull is being removed since both the skull and the flaming part are considered violations of the visual guidelines.

How do you have a flaming skull without the flame or the skull.

[crimson night]

"violations" bro LMFAO you gonna kill me with your wording. thats far from the reason its being removed, and if thats the logic then go delete litearlly 80% of all cosmetics in the game

[clever crow]

You are being salty and raging / agressive and deforming stuff. We can see you are mad about losing items obviously, but this is not the way I accept to discuss. So im done with you specifically and its been circling over the same thing anyway people will never agree on

[idle aurora]

He's just not worth the time or effort.

[crimson night]

far from salty, and far from aggressive, if youd like i can search and quote your own exact words prior that you want to act like im deforming. the amount of contradictions here is absolutely insane. and the logic being implicated is equally just as incorrect esp from you sorry not sorry.

ON ONE SIDE from most people its "idc if its a cosmetic override i have them off anyways but these are still a issue to me"
"i dont like items that have vfx and i want them all removed" = an opinion
Refunding a key because of a choice to remove a helmet because it "has too many particles" while if you spend 5 seconds on world 2, theirs way more culprit items/vfx/and more that are much bigger culprits, wasted some gp just to help emphasize that
playesr being to mass warp into trees = kewl
players with mounts that cover 4+ tiles of your screen = fine
players with heavy vfx on all of their characters = fine
players with VFX weapons/cosmetics and more = fine (all of which are not cosmetic overrides)
your picking and choosing where you want this "rule" of yours to be applied too as to see fit by you. instead of it being a logical answer its an emotional one, but your trying to turn that onto me.

"violation of visual guidelines" but ignores 99% of all the items to apply that "guideline too" and tackle the microscpic rarely used cosmetics, but not the elephants in the room.

ive played about 400 hours of runescape semi-afk and some not semi-afk. and you prob cannot tell me with a straight answer how many people have used ANY ,IF AT ALL, the same cosmetics your sitting here and complaining are "visually overwhelming" because your cosmetic overrides make you feel great, but someone elses is a problems so theirs should be removed

[shy path]

No need to attack other players in here. They've stated they're done with the conversation. You also need to be done with it

[crimson night]

im curious which other things to you are "overwhelming" in this image here. cuz a lot of these cosmetics are new to me and i find it interesting lmao. "

"how do you have a flaming skull without the flame or a skull @woven glade , ill tell you how"

1. theirs flaming head so u can have flame w/o skull so that logic = wrong,
   You have soul reaver, "flaming face without skull or head"
   you have the "carmine necromancer outfit" with the helmet being... holy moly . A SKULL 🤦‍♂️

make it make sense brother how these are "violations" of the visual guidelines whiel actively being a $20USD-30USd cosmetic option/offer

[crimson night]

that should go both ways then, im still going to share and state my opinion regardless, i have bee civil and still plan on being such. not worth getting mad over biased opinions period. but "attacking people" goes both ways. im apparently "salty/raging/aggressive/and deforming things" and isntead of having a civil and open conversation with logic and actual evidence, its opinion based anger and deflections . tried making my own thread /feedback regarding the convo, but yall closed it 🤷‍♂️ people wanna be civil then fine . and im far far far from attacking players.

[shy path]

If you have an issue with your thread being closed, you need to modmail @maiden leaf
As far as I can tell (I didn't read super far up), this argument is going in circles. They've chosen to step away, which means you need to stop tagging them and also step away

[crimson night]

thats totally fine i wont tag them any more, i simply was replying to the statements that they made as a individual, didnt even tag them in that body i tagged someoen who asked a QUESTION to my statement and i replied too it. if the other people wanna act the way they do thats fine. but no offense to get @me for "attacking individuals" as they initiated their choice of words first, and the things i said are far from "attacking" or labeling in such a manner but for me to be @-ed at for it... makes no sense to me.

[cold oasis]

i havent seen anyone on the other side offer a refute to this statement.

[dusty sage]

The solution to this is pretty straightforward- focus on the worst offenders for particles effects or massively oversized.

You’ll never hit a 100% solution.

TBH the skilling outfits are not even close to being an offender.

I could see them remaking them with the same design - but do what they plan on with slayer masks. Make them look like they are something worn vs transforming the player.

[crimson night]

i didnt know theirs "sides" here, i would say "groups" and refute what, its a two-sided street. the people who want it to LEAVE have no reason other than cuz we dont like seeing it, then make it a cosmetic over-ride. which is now toggle-a-ble.

runescape gear went through 3-4 alterations over the year like virtus for example, or barrows, or melee armours.

The solution i agree is straight foward. focus on the worst offenders, which this update is imo the opposite. we gonna mess with a skull that a water staff has more of a vfx cluster , vs the necromancy mayhem that occurs during uhmmmm wildy events (even though those are leaving sadge) or the ring of tree sabotauge that literally is used to blockade people while banking/skilling. sure, u can argue it will be less annoying if portables are actually perma-gone.

skilling outfits are also nowhere near the worst offender. this feels very random of thigns to remove.

Same thing here: monkey cape /potion hat/and all those are ok, but random octopus backpack? whats their methodlogy of choice here. DO i ever plan on wearing the octopus backpack? no, just doesnt make sense to remove items that people have earned and or paid for . (skull was premiere 2012)

[cold oasis]

youre really stuck on that skull, arent you?

[dusty sage]

I could see them reworking some of these items - like the skull could be made to be a sick death mask or something of the like.

[cold oasis]

skilling outfits are the first target because, and this is going to sound crazy, when a new player starts the game, jagex doesnt want them seeing these out of place superhero-esque outfits everywhere

[rigid gull]

Compared to the basic staff, I think this one is even more of an offender

[wheat raptor]

i play multiple mmos, two of them have shit that wouldn't look out of place in phantasy star online, tron or star wars and they feel more cohesive than the current elite skilling outfits

i dont mind them being converted to overrides, i dont believe that they should be THE elite skilling outfits

[crimson night]

no, im stuck on the logic of removing things people paid for, and why they are being removed, everything was broke down and explained regarding the skilling outfits, but not this? the skilling outfits was simple and solutions were shared,

im against/stuck on why peoples things that they paid for, are being removed with no solution to remediate as such. and its only going to start here, until it affects something of yours, i dont think you care . and i find that sad. its not "the skull" its oh hey we just decided we are going to take these things cuz of no explained reason other than "it dont fit our design" even though thei current for-sale items match those said designs.

im against things not being explained to people and why those changes are being made . the skilling outfit yeah their going to add better options down the road and this is a temporary change. im ALL FOR them to say hey listen, these are the new skilling outfit looks, if you like them, thats great, if you dont, you can choose between the old ones and the new ones. just like the cape choice we have for 99s/120s if we want the old design or not.
some are cool, some are less cool

but regarding BOTH topics.

1. most people who "Start the game" go to f2p worlds who dont have skilling outfits. so thats a false statement
2. most people usually camp at the GE, which are just a bunch of decked out end game players floating and got all kinds of animations and decked out giga staffs and party hats and rares. so by the logic of overwhelming, are we going to take out every persons floatywoaty animation and stuff they farmed/paid for and put the effort(S) they did

[cold oasis]

idk why you keep calling it logic. people can be banned from games and games can shut down, do you think they magically receive all their money back?

[crimson night]

-cough ashes cough-, and these are complete diff instances seeing as the game is still running, the majority of this discussion is community community community. But does it scream community to remove at random and at no explained choice items that belong to people? like i said, people dont care till it is something that is theirs. instead of seeing things with a open eye

edit: in the UK*** it also counts :
"In a landmark January 2026 ruling, the UK Court of Appeal determined that RuneScape gold constitutes "property" under the Theft Act 1968, meaning in-game currency theft can be prosecuted as criminal theft."

[cold oasis]

runecoins and treasure hunter keys arent gold

[crimson night]

you can buy bonds which give you runecoins which cost gold, they are still value, and jagex actually enforces that they do have value by showing you the $$ sign near the cost of every purchase.

[cold oasis]

you can also buy bonds with real money. do you think you can suddenly sue jagex for taking away your cosmetics...?

and yes, please take away the idle animations. half of the walk animations can go, too.

[wheat raptor]

According to ToS the stuffs owned by jagex regardless of whether you pay for it or not

They won't leave paying customers in a lurch, the blog is a proposal in the first place

[crimson night]

nobody is literally implicating that? your trying to insinuiate a game shutting down to items being removed that players earned/paid for for no actual explanation other than, we feel it dont fit no more. everything else was turned into cosmetic over-rides, but this is different? theirs a reason i was asking for a explanation.

you/others have explained that its a matter of trying to make things better for new players/the community, but last i checked it looks equally as bad to take things from playres because "meh we feel like it" is the explanation ive seen. and this is just the beginning, what other things will they begin to remove?

[cold oasis]

hopefully a lot of quests

theyve already removed tuska and the damage to lumby

[wheat raptor]

one of my longest dreams is for me able to turn off the puke from noxious staff and scythe 🙏

[crimson night]

wdym removed tuska, i didnt really get into that content. lumby they removed what dmg do u have a before/after? i like a lot of the changes made, as stated prior, its when they take stuff out that belong to people and dont come up with solution(S). the question is what ELSE will be taken, and how many people will get upset vs what they take out. as stated above, i got ZERO issues if they make it all cosmetic over-rides as stated in #1472789407928029194 . Nor do i see a video fully explaining the issue with these cosmetics.

[crimson night]

i agree, you should have a option to toggle that off or put a cosmetic of no-puke nox

[cold oasis]

half the current players could quit and itd be a net positive for jagex if 3x new players replaced them. i dont really care what they take from us if it helps the game heal.

[crimson night]

i dont get how we conclude that .. taking out something that almost nobody use/uses if we look at the grand scheme of certain cosmetics (ESPECIALLY the ones being currently removed), thats .000001%. i dont think a new player is gonna log in, see a players outfit and say that alone makes me quit. imo theirs much bigger things that can make a person "quit" or not try a game. and ive seen/analyzed many games -cough destiny 2-
will check both of ur links now ^_^

[cold oasis]

https://runescape.wiki/w/Lumbridge_Crater

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1k6i1kx/game_jam_looks_like_mod_ramen_is_looking_at/

[crimson night]

aaaaah so this thing. i think ive been on it before but.... i hardly remember so i dont get the relevance for its removal if that makes sense.

[cold oasis]

its interesting that you continue to say "i dont think" or "i dont feel" because jagex sure does. this isnt about what you personally want from them, you have to respect their decision if they want to change major parts of the game if they believe they arent working out.

like it or not, the success of osrs shows one thing. people will still play one of the most grindy mmos on the market if theyre having fun with it.

[crimson night]

and they are COMPLETELY welcome to change things, but you, or anybody in fact, have yet to solidly explain how removing a item that maybe...... .0001% of people have LET ALONE USE? transitions to players . bigger fish in the sea, like daily scape = agree, semi-disagree semi-agree with wildy events, as they got players together, and i once again, hope minigames fills that void.

OSRS shows that if they prioritize community and not mooneyz then people will show. because OSRS equally has goofy items as linked prior so thats not really "it" so to speak. it snot about what I FEEL or THINK, its me giving my opinion on something making sense in our conversation. if it was how i felt/thought then id be working at jagex not being a player for 20 ish years. please show me when jagex has removed anything from players in the last 20 years legitimately.

also when was crater removed cuz last i checked it was removed after 2025? or did they like.. completely change it recently

[cold oasis]

the removal of the crater was to give lumby its identity back before the decluttering patch.

as for the other part, look at the roadmap. this is the time where they want to fix their mistakes. the last 15 years have been a cash grab in whatever form the players accept. cant say its a very solid argument to say "look at the 20 years prior to now" when hero pass, yak track, and gambling for cosmetics have been the highlight of the updates outside of seasonal events.

[pliant folio]

Again, lets stop the back and forth arguments as they keep looping.

Lets keep it to constructive feedback to the topic, and not back and forth arguments

[crimson night]

huh, did my message not send? ugh..

As i was trying to say TLDR version: i agree with you , the pass was bad, the hero pass, and rng cosmetics, all were bad.the good changes are good, like th removal, and other changes. im hoping we get similair changes to other things too. and ive very much so liked majority of the changes,

im just trying to understand and have yet to have a clear reason and a clarification to the removal of things. and whats stopping from more things to be randomly removed within a 1-week notice? with zero assurance of it coming back as a override or something similiar for those who've had it

[cold oasis]

theres nothing random about what theyre targeting with the roadmap. these changes are, at the very minimum, costing jagex a free 3m a year. thats not including all the expenses theyre going to have to put into reworking or remaking cosmetics to fit into the new direction.

if i could get two things out of the blog today, it would be more information on what else they want to remove and a vision of the future that theyre trying to create. i want to see them tackle everything this year, as much as they have the time for.

[crimson night]

please notify me where it says " removal of players items .
because so far a lot of these things are completely valid. early game balance, combat modernisation, world decluttering, refreshment and ui, end game balances, player avatars. Ge improvements. all great things that im TOTALLY FOR. "regrounding items" doesnt mean REMOVING items.

[tender lichen]

i agree that the term Regrounding doesnt inherently mention removing things that are deemed out of place. But if said things need to be altered so much that they get changed, why even bother keeping it?

[crimson night]

compeltely valid, and they are doing so through removing the treasure hunter as it states right above that image. But that doesnt say, Removing players items , nowhere does it state so.
Liek is aid, i agree with all the changes. and it also says "subject to change based on player feedback, so, i'm giving feedback. removing peoples items aint it. I agree with nerfect the overwhelming amount of VFX -coug necromancy during flash events- and i hope that doesnt transmit to other stuff like minigames

[cold oasis]

oh, i know the next message. because they paid for it.

[pliant folio]

Again, lets stop the back and forth commentary and arguments.

[cold oasis]

treasure hunter was the first domino, removing it and giving us a cosmetic-only toggle is not the solution to the rest of the game.

[pliant folio]

It was deleted as you didn't listen after typing for 5 mins after i said to stop.

[crimson night]

i did stop tho?

[pliant folio]

You did not, as you continued. Then continued again after

No more replying to others as you're looping arguments, and have been told 3 hours ago as well to stop that

As these arguments keep looping, it's going to have to just full stop atm

[crimson night]

you asked me to provide constructive feedback to the topic and stop with the back and forth agruments, i agreed with their statements, and this is not looping when we are talking about the roadmap. i understand what your saying in the lopping argument part, which is why i am giving feedback on the topic which is the otufits and equipment and honestly am still waiting for a explanation of why these things are beign removed specifically and whats their differentiation from other cosmetics, i also agreed with their statements regarding the current changes.

[pliant folio]

In the message that was deleted, you tried to continue it again. You need to stop

This is the last time this is going to be repeated atm

[crimson night]

It depends, what is being altered/why. and that is honestly this whole topic on/off for the last 3 hours. is how is jagex determining

1. what gets "Regrounded
2. Why
   I feel that that hasnt really been....... explained? other than what seems/feels like a Pr response of "it doesnt match the integrity" but theirs so many outfits that match the theme of in My personal case, the skull matches a arsenal of things especially if we have necromancy now?

It also leads to future concerns, how is this being decided, and will more and more things be taken from players, this was posted 3 days ago and is appaerntly being removed tomorrow. not even a week(S) notice, no yk.. reassurance.

thanks to this convo here i got re-assurance with the skilling outfits and gave my constructive feedback there, thus why i aint even mentioning that anymore. IT just SEEMS/ and SEEMED random as im not jagex and dont have the statistics of how much an items used, and honestly. it seems under 1% combined for all the items being deleted AND the items being "toned down". do i agree some things are "over the top" yeah, but a rough understanding of the process would be nice

[tender lichen]

i think theyre giving a response about regrounding stuff later on monday

[cold oasis]

i hope they dont fold and still go through with removing what they feel is correct

[crimson night]

with everything, theres balance

[cold oasis]

there

and that balance cant come at the cost of a disruptive fashion statement that no longer aligns with the game world

[dusty sage]

Probably best solution is to tackle this in stages and just focus on turning down particle effects first.

Then tackle the outlandish outfits - like the two piece Chinese dragon set, Etc. I wouldn’t even put the elite outfits under this category.

Obviously, there are cosmetics that will need reworking - and that’ll be the longest part of it.

The game is very over bloated with cosmetics and could use a culling - maybe try and get some data on what items are least used.

[hoary prairie]

Reading over this thread has made me so sad and frustrated. People claiming that anyone against these changes are "a small minority" and that "most people are happy with items being removed." No. Just no. You literally have no data for that. You cannot honestly say that with certainty. This is exactly why I think that things like this should be left up to an in-game poll to get the absolute most data. Obviously Jagex can do whatever they want at the end of the day regardless of what players want, but we'll see what happens soon.

[cold oasis]

these are integrity changes, we should never be able to vote on these.

[hoary prairie]

These are taking away items from players changes. We got to vote on the TH removal which did the exact same thing.

[cold oasis]

no point in this if we're just going to keep repeating the same thing for 5 more hours.

[pliant folio]

Lets just try to keep things constructive and not against each other.

The topic is generally about the regrounding blogs contents, so if you dislike or like certain aspects lets try those points for now.

That way the thread doesn't turn into a rant box, which also continues the back and forth arguments.

Sometimes silence is golden to prevent further conflicts, but keeping feedback constructive to the topic, not to butt heads with each other, helps more.

E.g. if i were to not like potential reductions of particles, what would i like instead? A graphics option to toggle none, less, original, more? How do I like particles to potentially be instead? Etc

It's understandable to be frustrated on removal of certain things, which may be important to some but maybe not all, but constructive feedback is used to portray the views why/why not. Going back and forth on each other just raises heat and arguments which further derail and sometimes causes drama and other issues.

[hot star]

to be fair to this statement, i also heavily dislike when people manufacture consent or gesture towards some imaginary agreeable majority

but this thread has also gone on long enough that you can glean the common opinions from what everybody has been saying regardless of those kinds of additions

i don't really have strong opinions on most of the stuff being changed or removed, the big one to me is not doing any changes to the skilling outfits unless they can be given the time and work to keep them to the same standard the archaeology outfits have set, both in progression of complexity from the standard set to the master set and the graphical fidelity of both sets, so they don't look like they're from 2006

i do want the zodiac outfit and ogre infiltrator outfit gone though, they're just incredibly unsightly cosmetics.

[mossy hull]

So I do have a question regarding all of these upcoming cosmetic changes, etc. Just to be clear, they aren't going to REMOVE anything we've paid for, right? It will just shifted to look like something else? Because I already feel a certain way about them taking away treasure hunter keys, I'm okay with seeing them go away, but at the same time I have a massive stockpile of stuff left over in my bank and inventory. Combat dummies, etc. I understand I have a year to use them, but how about just doing a trade in system instead. I don't want to get online and farm dummies. I also don't want to feel like that more than half of the keys I spent money on are just going to suddenly be wasted because they've decided to take a new direction with the game.

It's unfair, and it reeks of the same kind of crap that Bungie tried to pull with the vaulting of their expansions. It's bad business to take away things that people have paid money for after the fact.

[remote adder]

Some cosmetics that required either time or money are on the chopping block.

[mossy hull]

That's a critically stupid decision if they choose to do that. I don't care if people can't see my cosmetics anymore, but to remove something that I've paid for is a terrible business practice. If that happens, I'm hoping they're either offering refunds or providing us with something for our troubles.

Or they just make it so that it's client-side, and I'm the only one that can see them. Whatever works.

[rigid gull]

On the chopping block is the flaming skull/head, Octopus Backpack, Mimic Helm, Zodiac Costume, Disco outfit and Infected Zombie outfit

[mossy hull]

Out of all of those I only own the flaming skull, but it's still something that I've purchased. So I hope they reconsider, or at least have a solution for how they're going to sell the whole "we're improving the game by taking away things you've purchased for real money." Seems like a great way to destroy trust.

[open pivot]

I agree, this can all be solved by giving 1-1 tokens for a cosmetic shop. If we paid for it we can get past losing it if its heres a replacement of your choice. Generically taking things weve paid for in any shape or form because they milked the game to the point its in this state is on them. Im very unhappy with how the premier club situation has been handled and have 0 confidence that the cosmetics will be handled any better. -- edit there are an abundance of cosmetic options via tokens/sold currently or from past events they could give out.

[mossy hull]

100% It's on them to make us whole if they're going to be removing things that we've paid for. It really doesn't give me confidence in this company if they're talking about removing paid cosmetics, and haven't said a single word about how they're going to do that. That means at any time they can always go back and just arbitrarily decide that some particular cosmetic or item isn't suited to the setting and decide to remove it. The only people who would AGREE with this particular stance and what they're doing, most certainly are people who haven't paid for any of the cosmetics that are being removed, and if they have, don't lick that boot. Be a better consumer, because that's bull$h!t.

[open pivot]

I also own a flame skull in keepsake crossing fingers for us both, but I really doubt any jmod will even read this/care or respond with clarifications.

[primal bluff]

weird choice imo

[shy path]

Somebody on the team will read this whole thread. They probably won't respond directly to you in here, just an updated blob post

[primal bluff]

Imo, cosmetics that 'could' look a bit weird should become actual physical items, so the player has to wear them and without override one to actually see/show it. Overrides should be grounded.

[static meadow]

I agree taking the items we have paid question the integrity of the company. Its weird they are doing this in the name of integrity by compromising their integrity.

[rigid gull]

Overrides are supposed to be done in a future one of these. Currently they are just looking at physical items

[primal bluff]

Yeah I know. 🙂

[static meadow]

I dont mind they redesigning the item to make them more suitable with the theme but dont take it away

[mossy hull]

I agree. Redesign all you want, replace all you want. Don't just remove paid items. It doesn't build confidence and if they start doing that and people don't say anything, it gives them ever increasing confidence to try it again.

I don't care if the item cost 20, 10, 5, or 1 dollar. It's the principle of the matter. I ain't out here giving away money to multi-million dollar companies for no reason. I'm buying a product/item/whatever.

[woeful ether]

Wait, tuska was removed? 😮 What replaced the anima isles/agility course/thing?

[remote adder]

Nothing.

[woeful ether]

🤔 So Tuska's Wraith / Tuska warpriest is discontinued?

[quiet forge]

No they got placed on the droptable for the chargers and maybe airuts

[woeful ether]

Alright, that makes sense ^^ Cheers

[shy path]

Can also buy it from ths reward shop by Liberation of Mazcab raids

Same for tuska's wrath codex

[kindred plaza]

Wait how do we even get to Mazcab now?

[shy path]

just outside menaphos gates, there's a portal/goebie camp to the west

[kindred plaza]

Ah, cheers

[humble mural]

agreed, why isnt this a toggle for ppl w low performance/ftp like immersion-wanting to show preset character models instead of vanishing items ppl bought w real $ and earned? simple medieval char models set so they show no effects. think a lot wanted temp toggle for ages

cosmetics dont break immersion given game's silly core and kooky stuff/creatures/worlds from zanaris and more. it only breaks immersion for ftp lore only. what's wrong w non humans? Even floating torso creatures are straight from the cosmic plane

i've only ever seen 3kinds of complaints- tree potion griefing at events (solvable w personal simple immersive medieval character models toggle w o breaking trust), particle performance (solvable w personal simple immersive medieval character models toggle w o breaking trust) - most of the above mainly only wnt temp toggle for events/performance intensive activity anyway NOT some blanket ban, and ppl who genuinely want everyone to look human and srs (an extreme minority, no lore beyond ftp, idk any p2p ppl like this, solvable w personal simple immersive medieval multi character models toggle w o breaking trust).

this is such a basic trust w buying virtual goods breakin it is beyond pale.
i didnt realize the team ethics were so broken -t his level of dishonesty and willing to break trust. the team may as well refuse to give membership for paid subscription at this rate.

that "removing paid for items" is under serious consideration is abnormal.

I also really liked playing anima isles solo and actually part of why I paid subscription back when I was actively playing was for anima isles

[cold oasis]

so if the game shuts down because they failed to attract a new player base after removing th, are you still going to sue them?

the people who are typing out these long-worded paragraphs still havent been able to challenge this.

[humble mural]

the difficulty for new players last i checked is that the new tutorials terrible compared to the one I grew up with, old tutorial island. It's incredibly overwhelming and confusing every time I made an alt character at that time that if I had not picked up the game as a child I would have just quit. Also platform accessibility, like whatever's on switch

And I'm not suing them, i hope they dont get sued, I'm just observing that it's the type of thing that companies get sued for. What I would personally do is probably just move on to some other game, I was planning to revisit this one but this was the news I came across so I figured I might as well give them my two cents before I move on since it doesn't seem like the type of game to get invested into more than I already have w this dishonest direction but it's important enough memories to me if i leave to say why. I am not trying to do a legal threat here because I don't have that investment nor intention. I am just saying since this is a game I did actually want to survive hopefully, that it's actually a problem But I'm sorry I didn't realize that even mentioning that it's actually a consideration breaks the server rules and if you want I can just remove that

I'm sorry I didn't realize it was against the rules to mention this type of thing so I removed it

[shy path]

Thank you 🙂

[humble mural]

to mod Feel free to delete anything I said that's against the rules and you may delete this later or something or I could take it to a DM

but basically I have seen some cases like that. I'm too sleepy to look it up right now and stuff And I cannot remember the specific games off the top of my head but I definitely invite you to do the research. I hope my fears are unfounded. So casually, it didn't seem to be a stretch and I actually do like this game quite a lot and don't want them to run into that kind of trouble. which is why I mentioned it but it is disappointing

[cold oasis]

no, thats not how that works. you made the claim, its on you to provide the proof, not for me to aimlessly google for hours.

[primal bluff]

Tutorial island will always be the best tutorial imo!

[primal bluff]

Some say that nothing should be removed cuz we have a toggle now, I disagree with that. Maybe I don't want to use the toggle to still see cool 'grounded' outfits ingame. Maybe I don't wanna use the toggle to just see the actual gear there wearing and because I dislike 1 or a few overrides.