Dungeoneering: Base Effective Skill Levels off Dungeoneering Level

[glossy frost]

Proposal:

• In Daemonheim (etc), Effective Skill Levels are the greater of Dungeoneering skill level or actual skill level for all skills (both combat and non-combat). For example, if your Attack is L50, Ranged L1, and Dungeoneering L20, then Attack remains L50 effective but Ranged becomes L20 effective
• "Skilling" in Daemonheim only awards Dungeoneering XP (while directly benefiting from Dungeoneering level, eg. L1 Herblore becomes L20 Effective to match L20 Dungeoneering)

Goals:

• Players with low Dungeoneering skill still benefit from actual skills in Daemonheim if greater
• Allow Daemonheim players to alternate and enjoy different combat styles (+ supporting skills) without being limited by lower actual skill levels
• Isolating skills in Daemonheim vs Core Gameplay makes it easier to balance skill progression and content for each in isolation
  • Deter use of Dungeoneering for powerleveling skills difficult to advance in core gameplay (eg. Herblore, Fletching, etc)
  • Core gameplay can more easily be rebalanced for better skill progression for which Daemonheim was previously used
  • Enemy levels/difficulty can scale more consistently against effective skills (greater than or equal to Dungeoneering level)/available gear instead of having a wide range of enemy levels like L1-L70 enemies and a L10 boss in a dungeon. For example, a player with L50 Dungeoneering might encounter L30-L80 monsters and bosses instead

Impact:
- Effective skills will NOT decrease as a result of this proposal, but instead will either stay the same or improve across all skills

• Dungeoneering XP gain will need to be rebalanced to reflect gain from non-combat skilling
• Item unlock levels (eg. potions) would rebalance. Gameplay orients around how/when items are used rather than ability to have them (scarcity)
• Retains the value of lower level content and equipment in core gameplay for players who actively Dungeoneer since their skills will not actually increase from Dungeoneering

[simple matrix]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/_Deter_use_of_Dungeoneering_for_powerleveling_skills_difficult_to_advance_in_core_gameplay_(eg._Herblore%2C_Fletching%2C_etc)

[glossy frost]

(Reserved)

(Reserved)

[eternal mesa]

Neat idea! I’ve been thinking about a Daemonheim-only Ironman (at least until untrimmed DG cape) but I think it’ll wait until we get an overhaul on the Roadmap.

However, I can see people complaining that this change would make Dungeoneering even more of a self-contained minigame instead of a “real skill”.

[glossy frost]

However, I can see people complaining that this change would make Dungeoneering even more of a self-contained minigame instead of a “real skill”.

True. Some points worth fleshing out:

• Is this necessarily a bad thing given how significant the Dungeoneering rewards are that benefit players outside of it?
• Could Dungeoneering skill be utilized in new ways (features, activities, dungeons, etc) or toward core gameplay after this change? (Compare to Slayer skill)

[stiff elk]

i appreciate how out of the box this idea is, but i'm not so certain that allowing dungeoneering to supersede other skill grinding is for the best

[glossy frost]

Keeping in mind that this would lead to other organic changes both in and out of Dungeoneering, what would your concerns be? This is an opportunity to discuss and address them 😃

allowing dungeoneering to supersede other skill grinding

Perhaps there are ways to address this so that this doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

One possible approach: suppose that the dungeon scales to become (slightly or moderately) more difficult than the combat and non-combat capabilities are as their Dungeoneering level increases, then Dungeoneering would heavily benefit from (or maybe even necessitate) having at least some skill levels exceeding Dungeoneering levels. Per the proposal, this skilling would have to occur in core gameplay to level up, thus encouraging skilling in core gameplay rather than Minigames/DnDs/Dungeoneering. (This proposal necessitates and facilitates rebalancing skills in both Dungeons and core gameplay, so let us assume skilling in core gameplay would improve as Jagex already plans to do.) This could also encourage grouping (there is already an XP multiplier, so this gives yet another reason to group).

If this approach is taken, one might ask "What's the point of basing effective skills off Dungeoneering then?", and my response would be that it provides a higher baseline effective level for all skills, maintaining their usefulness at all times. It would allow benefitting from underdeveloped support skills; as well as switching combat styles to face problematic foes and switching playstyles just for fun.