Heists: Thieving Skill Update Launches Today! - This Week In RuneScape

[limber harness]

@halcyon heron Are the players being invisible (except one random one) at menaphos guards intended?
It looks disturbing.

[ashen umbra]

The players turning invisible is a graphical bug

[quartz sigil]

If there's one thing I'd like to see changed, it's the time it takes to teleport out after looting the rare chest

[ashen umbra]

Agreed on that just let me throw the smoke bombs and get out.

Honestly it be nice if we could be given a smoke bomb at the start that can be used as an emergency abort

[quartz sigil]

Also, do Pylon batteries add to score or not?

[clever violet]

@halcyon heron I've noticed with the sticky fingers nerf that a lot of the time NPCs are moving around therefore you're not benefitting from the speed of sticky fingers. Would not using sticky fingers be better exp per hour in this case? In a perfect world it seems balanced but I guess thats just if your npc gets stuck 100% of the time

[young harness]

Smoke bombs? sounds neat. Would personally love to see some deathmark bombs so we could apply deathmark with any combat style.

[young harness]

Yknow, would also be cool if sticky bombs had some use there too

[elder latch]

no

[harsh bridge]

Notice. If you're on a chest and a ghost is coming up behind you, you could, potentially, escape back into some bushes. But, if the chest opens and you get a seal, the text box eats your inputs and you'll get caught. That feels bad.

[quartz sigil]

If you are picking the rare chest and it opens as you get stuck in the detection ring, clicking teleport out will save you

[harsh bridge]

Yes but that's not the only chest. And there's a few that are designed for you to be able to escape into a safe spot.

[wooden venture]

Has anyone come up with a reasonably optimized route for heist 1 yet? I've been running some ideas around in my head, and wanted to see what others have come up with.

My current average time is 9:20-ish with 500 loot and no errors

[quartz sigil]

That sounds about fair tbh

Unless you skip a lot of the chests and bodies you aren't really going to get much faster

[wooden venture]

Currently, I skip the shadow chest in the first area behind an agility obstacle, and the first shadow chest in the pylon area

neither of them have particularly quick surge/dive routes in or out, so they take too long to collect to really seem worth it...

but everything else I can get to/from within a few ticks, so it doesn't seem worth skipping anything else.

if you go straight to the extra loot room immediately, you can often skip either/both the shadow chest and safe in the big chest room

[heady frost]

bumping in case there's no answer yet

[hidden grove]

instead of safes unlocking at a higher thieving level, which feels quite bad, maybe the higher level could unlock "better loot from chests and safes" this way you don't need to loot everything in the vault for the best xp/loot which basically increases your xp/gp p hour since you spent less time per vault.

or have safes give half the rewards/ take double the time until you reach the level to unlock them

[humble heron]

tried it for the first time and was also scratching my head. i was able to optimize dragonkin down to 7:00 or so kinda easily and intuitively but heist 1 is just so point starved and it's sooooo many 10 and 15 point chests to get to the goal.

[south sorrel]

Vic's store XP credit reward values now go to 120 for all skills

Arch/Necro had theirs from 100-120 increased by 1 xp, this matches what it was at 99.

[south sorrel]

Okay got everything but map updates now

a lot of this will just be figuring out actual map changes vs NPC spawns.

Also it appears some texture/mat changes occured

[neat vector]

Any chance of taking a second look at how loot works in heists? If you don't get hit, the second and third floors of the Asuran Arsenal are basically pointless as you don't need the loot score from their chests or safes

Possible to increase the cap on loot beyond 500, but have 500 be the max needed for highest odds on uniques? That way people who want more commons can clear everything

[south sorrel]

I believe there's a trade off of time, which does make the 2nd/3rd floors useful. Also if you don't have 114 thieving, then it's almost mandatory for the Ornate chests there.

[neat vector]

That's true

I just want a reason to engage with the whole thing as much as possible haha

[wooden venture]

I prefer the extra optional loot to the situation with heist 1, where there's barely enough, and it's difficult to optimize as a result.

Maybe both could be adjusted in opposite directions, though... arsenal probably has a bit too much freedom

[south sorrel]

Nov 24th Unlisted Changes

Achievements

• "<Skill> 92 (Halfway There)" and "<Skill> 113" renamed to "<Skill> 113 (Halfway There)" for the following skills:
  • Archaeology, Dungeoneering, Necromancy, Slayer.
• "A Thief Beyond Belief" achievement modified how it tracks progress.

Items

• The skill guide icons were altered for "Pompous merchant" and "Waiko merchant".
• Various Christmas holiday items with "scroll" in their name have captilized it.
• The following items now include "Title Scroll (Untradeable)" in their name:
  • 'Admirable' title, 'Impish' title, 'the Real Present' title (White/Blue/Purple).
• "Fairy Light Fishing token" renamed to "Fairy Light Fishing Rod token"
  • The override was renamed as well.

NPCs/Objects

• Dragonkin projection models have been updated.
• A certain metal texture has been updated.
• A dirt texture has been updated.
• "Festive Guardian" override renamed to "Holly Knight Guardian"

Other

• Chaos Druid chests now refer to the basement in the skill guide.
• Santa hat overhead emotes were changed.
• Vic/Portable trader skill xp credits now extent to 120 for ALL skills.

Special

• Christmas Event items, rewards, and some content was added this week.
  • I won't reveal it all for the time being.

_ _
I'll eventually do map changes later.

[frigid copper]

Meh. G.E. already has several new tradables from upcoming Xmas.

[south sorrel]

It's not that I can't, it's just listing everything atm would take some time 😛

[vital palm]

i noticed a corsair lootbeam in settings,is this part of xmas? cant find it on wiki/ge

[vital palm]

Dang i need to learn to read better haha ty

I tend to skip the th segment on the patch notes

[noble nebula]

The bugs caused by this update are ruining my experience of the game. The invisibility thing is still not fixed... Request a refund for this month's membership 😕

[worn skiff]

you aren't getting a refund

and there will be a coldfix coming out for that whenever the fix is ready

[alpine phoenix]

they never refund membership don't even try

[south sorrel]

I must be going crazy

so it seems like these Archaeologist were added here this week (normal ones not thieving ones):

To verify I checked a vid from 5 years ago and they were there

so I guess at some point they got removed??

[hybrid warren]

They appear after you unlock the digsite i think

[south sorrel]

oh maybe they no longer do

but show up for everyone

[pastel spear]

How come no hotfix to fix invisible

[versed flint]

is the common loot from those heists supposed to be virtually the same no matter how much loot you have in the bag? i did the speedrun task for kharid getting between 100-150 loot and the final loot value was between 200-900k meanwhile almost maxed lootbag at around 490+ loot got me around 900k-1.1m loot

[shell harbor]

:omegalul:

[shell harbor]

probably not something that can be hotfixed, seems more of a coldfix thing

[wooden venture]

This can be temporarily resolved by going into options -> graphics -> setting textures to off -> turning textures back to compressed/uncompressed.

Whatever causes it to occur can happen again, but these steps can be repeated to make all players visible again every time.

[elder latch]

if you primarily do content that needs other people to be visible like pvp or group stuff you can probably request a small make-good like a few extra days, a discount or bonus on next purchase, or some RCs
i'd wait until they fix it though so you know how much time you've lost

[winter granite]

any estimates on the drop rate of the heist items?

also I'd like to make a small suggestion, after you finish rummaging a legionary, make then unclickable. just like how once the chest is open, you can't click on it again. would help me keep track of which ones I've looted

[pastel spire]

I did some chests for a couple of hours and notice the loot is not that great. Xp is good. But the loot definitely feels low. The drops are good just the rates are bad. Any possibility it could be increased?

Also remove the coins drop from cadarn chest btw. Coin drops are so frequent that it reduces seed rate by a lot.

[stiff furnace]

1/terrible it seems

i dont get why any uniques have to be a 50+ hour grind

[wooden venture]

wow, that's better than my drop rate. I'm getting 1/doesn't fucking exist

[pastel spire]

With how active chests are. They should really buff the drops by a big margin. Maybe give 3 rolls from one chest.

[shell harbor]

how rare was the Ring of Vitur adjusted to be? I have been pickpocketing Consumers for like 16-17 hours and still haven't gotten one. Starting to wonder if there's an issue here

[wooden venture]

I don't think the rate changed, personally. I'm seeing just as many broadcasts as day 1, if not more... but that's likely just more people being aware of the drop.

[gaunt valve]

Ive gotten 3 rings already it exists trust me

[winter granite]

gonna need to see quick chat for that claim

[distant plover]

Rate adjustments are relatively easy problems with known values to adjust - the weird bugs introduced with this update seem like a real pain to solve - just figuring out what happened to cause an intermittent bug in general is a pain in development, and in the spaghetti-code-hell-dimension that is the RS3 codebase I suspect they either haven't figured out the root cause or are still working on the solution (or that solution requires a major update and can't be done in a hotfix, so it'll be released on monday)

[vital palm]

any word on the terrible loot from chests? (city of um chests in particular)

[rancid bolt]

I don't know if it's been mentioned - but is there any way to get the pink circle of the legionaries to not be interactable, bladed diving is a nightmare 😸

[steady terrace]

#social-feed message

Looks like they're aware and are looking for better stuff to add as well

[vital palm]

so nothing new since i checked,ty

[proud moth]

Are these posted separately?

I want to draw out an optimized path. To try and get 500 points in as min time.

[nova forum]

you put safes in but it doesnt fill the safe loot bag

[proud moth]

So far im getting pretty good at vault.
10 points for chests,
15 for shadow
30 for safes
12~ for legionaries.
and 50 for the final chest.

One could in theory make a optimized path that would guarantee a minimum 500 loot when leaving. All while getting the minimum number of pylons required

[wooden venture]

There's some restrictions on where pylons can be as well... Since every run must be possible regardless of route, there are no progression related items in safes. There also aren't any pylons inside shadow chests, since if there were, it would be possible to completely lock yourself out of the final loot room.

To that end, the first room and the third area both likely need full clears, since the seals can be anywhere but safes. None of the rest of the shadow chests are strictly necessary for completion.

Finally, the game provides 10 extra pylon batteries across the entire vault consistently, and the only variable is their location. You can afford to miss exactly one spawn of them without locking yourself out of the final loot room. That means you can skip exactly one chest or corpse without any real consequence.

[half lodge]

Any chance you could add teleports to the Camouflage outfit for the Heist locations?

[half blaze]

Do luck enhancers affect the chance of rare drops from pickpocketing and heists?

[proud moth]

#design-chat message

Reason. Skilling sets already overloaded

[clever violet]

Was the sticky fingers nerf applied assuming pickpocket npcs never walk around? Because you actually get more exp now WITHOUT the thieving specific relic if your pickpocket npc starts walking around which most should and even if you manage to get them stuck for a bit they reset location and you will be walking around getting stalled for a game tick or two to catch up.

[south sorrel]

Wiki has maps tbf

[humble heron]

Some heist gameplay feedback:

Both: Success check RNG is a bit frustrating when you low roll really hard, especially any time you're doing something under a time crunch (approaching guard, lightning, keeper projection) and despite having ample time you just kept rolling failures and now have an even larger time loss, increasing your punishment for being unlucky. It'd be nice if every fail increased the odds of success such that the absolute worst luck is capped at some point. It does make boosts feel extra required for this content, which's kinda funny because of how chill pickpocketing is, never requiring aura while heists feel like you really want it.

Also, would be nice if clicking safecracking was more responsive especially when you need to dodge away from a safe. Registering clicking a shine after 2t feels pretty slow.

Vault - there's just not enough loot here in general and it really feels slow compared to dragonkin. The RNG amount of loot on guards doesn't feel good, and the double/triple punishing failure on spirit disturbance level is crazy evil (punished first since each failure naturally delays you, then again if you get to 4 fails and spawn a ghost who now massively delays you), especially for lower level players with a much lower success chance baseline. Almost all the same actions here (other than shadow chests) have lower loot than their asuryan equivalent, including a rare chest that gives 50 loot rather than 75. If those were bumped up to dragonkin level it'd immediately feel a lot better, plus maybe add a few ornate chests that are conspicuously missing from this heist.

Arsenal - Mostly great. Biggest pain point is the keeper projection in the second area - if you're holding the tablet and he's in front of you in the first position, you have absolutely no recourse but a ~40 second wait as he's also going to be ahead of you in the next position. Otherwise, the speed of this heist feels good. Little awkward needing empty hands for tablet.

[heady frost]

there's a big hole into the void in the east side of the Asuran Arsenal's third section

and another one on the third floor's west side while standing on the second floor

[opal crater]

An interesting name for the loot beam

[keen sleet]

lol

[clear torrent]

why dont heist have there own sub section in thiefing you got to go to everything and scroll through well everything

[opal crater]

Been having Vyres randomly reset today (Without them being trapped in 1 spot)

[half lodge]

So... this invisibility bug. I've been doing my own investigation and have consulted a renowned expert in all things invisible, Professor Zap Hion. He was difficult to contact, due to being invisible, but after I logged into my brain and changed a few settings he appeared. I gave him a chance to put on some clothes and asked "Why are so many people invisible, but I can see their pets?" The answer? The answer is astonishing, quit reading now or your life will never be the same.

He said...

"Turns out when you log off your pets get bored and go skilling"

[keen sleet]

XD

[pastel spear]

Yeh fk invisibility

[sweet wigeon]

Got 4 around 1 every 10h or somthing

[limber harness]

Agreed on those points, one thing regarding punishing in the dragonkin one:
I get it that it's supposed to be hard, but it really shouldn't require that tightly timed and accurate clicks for the cannons (especially second area and the upstairs ones). I think having a tick or two would feel a lot better as reaction time, as the punishment for failure here is pretty massive, and even a slight lag or delayed movement can screw this up big time, and as we all know too well, randomly delayed movement is a thing in rs. Not to even mention personal reaction times. I feel like too much of the recent content, whether it's this or some of the bosses, place the difficulty in overly tight timings of things.

[pallid hearth]

Can we please get a quick chat option to see how many of each heist we did!

[hybrid warren]

#game-news message

[stiff furnace]

heist exp boost made me feel worse on heists ngl. chances are i will be way past 120 oncei have all the uniques

really think unique rates should be boosted a little

end of the day they're just marginally upgraded eof fodder

[pallid hearth]

???? I don’t see quickchat addressed anywhere there? I read it like 5 times lol

[chilly lance]

Does the team know they accidentally ruined combat vyres with this update?

[stiff furnace]

because of all the people wlaking around?

[chilly lance]

Less spawns

Think some of them got turned into thieving NPCs

[stiff furnace]

wait actually?

thats rough if so

[chilly lance]

Unless it's some weird thing with all the people running through and getting them trapped super far off, but yeah, seems messed up, the past few times I've went

[hybrid warren]

sorry bout that, wrong link #social-feed message

[rough swan]

idk if this is a place for feedback on the update but as far as i'm aware there isn't a way to reset your heist personal record and it'd be cool if there was

[heady frost]

https://tenor.com/view/cell-cell-games-dbz-dbza-dragon-ball-gif-14998889

[worn skiff]

This is the correct place for feedback.

The threads for each week’s update is the best spot for feedback on the update of the week

[quartz sigil]

Can we get an option for Heists to skip the smokebomb animation when looting the rare chest and teleporting out?
I know it doesn't matter because you can't be caught when doing the animation and the time stops as soon as you select teleport out, but it takes FOREVER for the animation to play out

[rough swan]

thankyou!

[strong wyvern]

Around 225 heists done (mostly max loot) and 1 drop.

My feedback, without knowing droprates (please consider dropping them soon), is that the uniques feel too rare. I'll hit 200m long before I get all of them. Especially if there's no dupe protection. Please look at bad luck mitigation if there isn't any already.

Overall though I love the heists, more content like this! Just please make droprates reasonable.

[hidden grove]

but then there are also people that got like all 3 uniques within 50 KC,
There are always people getting lucky, and unlucky.
Hard to say if BLM is needed or that they feel to rare, Because i also heard someone say it felt to common

[vital palm]

Pls fix vyres training method (combat not thieving)

[warped scarab]

Have they adressed heist drops being too rare yet?

I'd like to get a hotfix before the weekend 🙁

[quartz sigil]

Heist drops are as rare as they are meant to be

[warped scarab]

Getting 200m long before all the items doesn't seem like a good design

[quartz sigil]

Such is the drawback of rng

Just because you don't get something before you max your experience means you have to change the way you are looking at it

If you are doing it for the loot then yea it sucks, but if you are doing it for the xp then you attained one of your goals

[warped scarab]

No, Im perfectly ok at statistics

Im speaking of the expected value seemingly being too high

[quartz sigil]

Some people have gotten extremely lucky, the price is already crashing

I got the staff yesterday from the first heist

Don't know how many times I did it though because there's no statistic for it, at least not yet

[hidden grove]

on what XP did you start?

because you can do heist starting at something like 8.5m thieving xp

[warped scarab]

Im not only speaking of my own experiece, but the communities Im in combined with world broadcasts

[hidden grove]

so unless you did 191.5 M Thieving XP, its a weird thing to say

[warped scarab]

It just seems too rare, and as Jagex refuse to release drop rates within a minimum 1 month period the best we can do is speculate

[quartz sigil]

Then why is it worth complaining about if it's not your own experience?

They also replace the Noxious weaponry barring the scythe

[warped scarab]

Because Im not bothering to waste my time on items that would get adjusted in the future

[quartz sigil]

so for tier 90 weapons gained entirely through skilling it's extremely fair they are rare

[hidden grove]

its basically supposed to be more expensive than nox i would say

since it has same stats, but has a spec

[quartz sigil]

No, Nox will never go down in price

They are also used for components

[hidden grove]

true

[quartz sigil]

The staff offers Zamorak components so they are also worthwhile

But that's of course if you have multiple staves

I'm after the Bow personally, but heists are really fun and addictive

[hidden grove]

but i think aiming for these items to be a bit more expensive than nox would be justified

and its a nice way for skillers to also get some valued items

[quartz sigil]

Oh definitely

the Raxxi farm is kinda stressful considering the drop chances and drop mechanics of the pieces

and the fact two of the three paths serve to do nothing better than waste your time

But, the scythe is a tier 90 weapon with halberd range, and the Dragon Rider Lance is a halberd but also has lower damage with t90 accuracy

[warped scarab]

Heists might seem fun untill you hit that 3 digit hour mark for all items

[quartz sigil]

Then stop focusing on how long you have been doing it for and either enjoy doing it or don't do them

Pretend that you are having fun and when you finally get them you will be beyond ecstatic

[warped scarab]

Drop rates are highly corrolated with how much fun Im having

[quartz sigil]

Yea.... that's where you are going wrong

[warped scarab]

No

[quartz sigil]

Are you a main or an iron?

[hidden grove]

based on his name an iron

[quartz sigil]

Well for an Iron the rarity of the weapons means nothing unless you really need it for an upgrade

[warped scarab]

They are bis items wdym

[quartz sigil]

And if you are a main, the only reason you would care about its rarity is if you intend on making money off them

The staff is BiS in an EoF, but the bow is an upgraded dark bow, and the BiS bows are Last Guardian and Eldritch Crossbow in EoF

Or the Crossbow itself

And the BiS Staff is Fractured Staff of Armadyl

[hidden grove]

This ^

[quartz sigil]

These new weapons are stepping stones

[warped scarab]

They are not stepping stones

[hidden grove]

they're more like stepping stones or sidegrades

[quartz sigil]

Just like Noxious weapons were

They are completely stepping stones

They cannot be upgraded and their specials are upgraded versions of pre existing weapons

[warped scarab]

Special attacks are BIS

[quartz sigil]

Unlike Zuk Sword, Leng Daggers, Armadyl Staff and Last Guardian

They are also tiers below Masterwork weapons too

No they are not

[warped scarab]

Their tiers don't matter, that's not what makes them valueable

[quartz sigil]

The staff yes, because previously Iban's was best for straight out damage

[hidden grove]

this boy mad about not being able to easily obtain his 0.1% dmg increase at end game gear

[quartz sigil]

But the bow isn't

Eldritch Crossbow special is far better for dps

[warped scarab]

Ah yes, the ecb spec which excludes the use of other special attacks

My bad

[hidden grove]

in cases where you would dark bow spec, its a small upgrade

but if you don't enjoy vault, why do you care about doing something you don't enjoy for a long time, just to save a few seconds of a kill from something that you do enjoy

[warped scarab]

I do enjoy it, but the problem is that I won't for how long it's required at the current rates

Most people won't

[hidden grove]

but you don't even know the current rates?

[quartz sigil]

They are rare, that's all we know

And they should be

They are tier 90 weapons you can get purely through skilling without any other considerations

Tier 90 is the preferred tier for entrance to high level bossing

If you have a problem with their rarity, go use Necromancy and start doing HM Kerapac or Zamorak

[warped scarab]

Why would I do that, I've already completed those

[warped scarab]

It just seems too rare, and as Jagex refuse to release drop rates within a minimum 1 month period the best we can do is speculate

[quartz sigil]

Then why do you care about the weapons if you already have better?

[warped scarab]

Like I said, they are BIS

If you don't understand that, you're clearly not educated enough to speak on their usefullness

[quartz sigil]

sigh none of them are BiS

The staff replaces Ibans in an EoF that's about it

Perhaps the bow might replace dark bow

But as weapons they are not best in slot, and if you don't get them you have alternatives

Best in slot means that they are the utmost best

And while bossing, accuracy is important

They are stepping stones for most players

And if they were in fact best in slot weapons, by all rights they should be insanely rare

That's why you can only get Armadyl Staff and Zuk sword from hard mode bosses rather than normal mode bosses

[warped scarab]

Which they are

[quartz sigil]

They aren't

They are nowhere near bis

[hidden grove]

imagine the sanctum of rebirth weapons all over again

[warped scarab]

Yeah, because there's no middle ground

[quartz sigil]

I do want those weapons

I've only killed Nakatra 36 times though

[warped scarab]

Then why are you arguing about stuff you have no knowledge of..

[quartz sigil]

Because we aren't talking about Roar or Ode, we are talking about the Thieving weapons

And the end tier for us is the current tier 100 weapons, crafted from the tier 95 weapons

[warped scarab]

Yup, ezk is as strong as masterwork sword

[quartz sigil]

It's special is insane though

with optimal buffs you can hit 120k in a single special attack

And depending on your skill the Armadyl Staff is powerful as well, and Roar and Ode are also strong

And all these weapons can be upgraded to tier 100 with a Shard of Genesis

These thieving weapons cannot and their specials are just upgrades from Zamorak Staff, Dragon Claws and Dark Bow

Which are at best Finality fodder

And if you don't have better weapons, they are upgrades to the Wilderness weapons

Hence why they are stepping stones

[hidden grove]

You forgot to state that they are Minor upgrades to these existing specs

[quartz sigil]

Yea

If they were truly BiS weapons obtainable from thieving and tradeable there's no way they would be 120m on GE

[warped scarab]

That's PvM in a nutshell. Small upgrades stacked upon eachother to create a very strong build.

[hidden grove]

i know

[warped scarab]

They aren't 120m, that's their guideprice on the heavily outdated grand exchange pricing system

[quartz sigil]

Well that

[warped scarab]

And yes they are BIS

[quartz sigil]

that's what my staff examine shows

[hidden grove]

but in my opinion since they're BIS for those cases they're justified being rare

[quartz sigil]

And as an Iron I don't care about how much they are

But the fact that the price is that low means that people are already looting tonnes of them

So your luck is just terrible

But to call them BiS items is laughable

[warped scarab]

Rare yes of course. They just seem a bit too rare.

[hidden grove]

but the increase is small enough so it isn't a MUST have

so it is not really worth chasing the drops

[warped scarab]

The dagger is close to a bill

The guideprice is worthless atm

[quartz sigil]

Skilling offering tier 90 weapons for no hassle at all makes their rarity completely understandable

[hidden grove]

Yeah but that dungeon is harder than the first? an has higher reqs

give the items some time to settle first

[warped scarab]

That's not why, it's by far the biggest upgrade among them

[hidden grove]

true

but that dungeon also only has 1 tradable rare

[quartz sigil]

It's also dangerous

So obviously the price of the weapon is high

[warped scarab]

The other rare is just a straight upgrade for melee camp

[quartz sigil]

The first Heist is.... annoying at times but also completely safe

[warped scarab]

Dangerous? Dying with a skilling outfit is very punishing

[quartz sigil]

And besides, Leng weapons are vastly superior

[warped scarab]

Unless you're a hacim ofc

[quartz sigil]

The fact you can die alone makes it dangerous

[warped scarab]

You can't compare lengs to the dagger...

[quartz sigil]

A death is a death, and considering it's a skilling activity as well

[warped scarab]

They serve two completely different purposes

[quartz sigil]

The dagger is expensive because it's rare, Lengs are expensive because they are good

[hidden grove]

so lets say the droprate for a rare is 1/300 if you have 500 loot

in the first dungeon you are expected to get a item in all 100 kills

In the last dungeon only 1/300 (if you only count tradable ones)

[warped scarab]

Lengs aren't very good, unless monday's patch changed a lot

[hidden grove]

They stated they are looking into having it unlock guaranteed after X amount of runs

[quartz sigil]

the recent update just made flurry and stuff hit more times

[warped scarab]

That isn't a just. It's pretty significant, but is it significant enough..

[hidden grove]

if you get caught in first dungeon you loose some loot,
If you get caught in second dungeon to often, you may have to restart the run

So yes, it is more dangerous

[quartz sigil]

Yea, it is pretty significant

[hidden grove]

i think the added value of the poison procs, can be pretty significant

[quartz sigil]

and also the scaling with Berserk

[warped scarab]

The 2nd dungeon is very forgiving. You can fail many times and still get 500 by the end.

[quartz sigil]

big BOOM damage from Duel Wield

[hidden grove]

but i think increase is about the same as the increase of gloombow over darkbow

for a spec weapon

[quartz sigil]

Yea the bow special isn't that far off Dark Bow

Only thing to consider is the bonus damage from sources like buffs and gear making it stronger

[hidden grove]

it is forgiving, if you fail, be patient, and eat up.

But mistiming the fires at some points can mean you get 100/0 after only 1 input

But i think these discussions aren't leading to anything, we have different opinions on how things should be, and thats exactly the reason why jagex can never do an release of something without some sort of backlash,

you can't please everyone with these things

[quartz sigil]

Logically speaking their rarity is fine

[warped scarab]

Releasing the drop rates would lead to a lot more meaningful discussions

[quartz sigil]

That will be either next week or the week after

Currently we only have pickpocket rates

[warped scarab]

Minimum a month

[quartz sigil]

Just bear in mind, that the silly season is upon us, and inevitably the christmas event

so they do have a bit on their table for the time being

[hidden grove]

yes, but also if they keep droprates a secret, its easier for them to alter these rates a bit, if they see the data, and the rate of items entering the game feels off

also, i think they have to keep in mind how people run these dungeons.
They can guess the average time of a dungeon. but i have seen some very weird, doubtfull Dives and surges, and i wonder if i tested them all

[quartz sigil]

I goof up so often when I run the first heist I can't break 11 minutes with 500 loot

[hidden grove]

imagine, them expecting is to last double the time on a heist, and we found some way to halve it.

Double the amount of time would enter the game

than they had to lower the droprate, and we'd get the early bird bonus discussion all over again

[quartz sigil]

When hard mode arch glacor came out they said no one would beat 4000% enrage in a month

[hidden grove]

(already happened a bit on charms, onyxes, tetras etc)

[quartz sigil]

Someone did it with a couple of days to spare

[warped scarab]

Early birds boost content interaction which leads to long term benefits (this isn't just a Runescape concept). Having things too weak leads to the opposite.

[hidden grove]

but thats something quick to fix

[warped scarab]

For example in league of legends, champions released too weak will never recover in terms of playrate.. Even after adjustments

The hype is very important

[quartz sigil]

We always exceed expectations

[hidden grove]

but also leads to people feeling demotivated or leftout if they cant play during this time, since they didnt get to participate in it

[quartz sigil]

Unless it's something you can't get again missing an early bird special is heartbreaking but not the end of the world

[warped scarab]

Either way everyone can't be pleased. One has a better outcome for future interaction with the content.

[quartz sigil]

I failed the reach the early bird Elidinis boosts in time because I had to level archaeology and I was heartbroken

But I've still killed it over 800 times since then

to reach*

[warped scarab]

A lot of content isn't interacted with due to a mental blockage to try new things

[quartz sigil]

and the Teci nerf is depressing, but the rates are still pretty grand

Considering the alternatives are worse

[warped scarab]

Raid loot needs to be unlocked

[quartz sigil]

Yes, I agree that time timegated nature of it makes it unappealing

[hidden grove]

just found this on reddit,

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1p8qvrq/rare_drops_from_102120_thieving_at_heists/

If you take this as an example, the droprates doesn't seem to be that bad

[quartz sigil]

But the fact is, not everyone wants to farm group content like that

And accommodating all play styles is the best way to go for a gaming company

[warped scarab]

If you take the guy who posted it on reddit because he got so lucky into consideration, the drop rates don't seem so bad

[quartz sigil]

I got Shrimpy pet in 4 kills, some people haven't gotten it yet after dozens of kills

I'm also over 800 Gate cleanses and I still don't have the pet or the Dowser

But a person in the Ironman section got Dowser in I think it was 46 cleanses

You are either lucky or unlucky

[warped scarab]

You're not lucky or unlucky. There's an expected value and deviation. Possibility =/= probability.

[quartz sigil]

No, you are lucky or unlucky

You can get a 1/1000 drop in the first few kills

That's lucky

If you don't get it for a lot more than that, you are unlucky

But unless it's a guaranteed drop you can't do anything about it

It is what it is

Something being classified as rare doesn't make it rare, it just means if you go into it expecting it to take forever but get it faster than that then it makes you happy

[stiff furnace]

the rates are far too high and should be adjusted

sampling bias aside i’ve been on worlds with 30-40 people running heists not seeing a drop for multiple hours

know multiple irons who done 60n thieving exp already without a drop

60m*

it’s not a case of ‘you’re just unlucky’ or sampling bias

lot of people in heist reporting the same issue so it’s quite evident it’s a problem

and it being a skilling method doesn’t mean rates should be bad. it’s still active gameplay requiring your time and attention

if i can get a t90 at rax in 5-10 hours with the same effort i should expect the same at heists

[quartz sigil]

No, you shouldn't

You can't compare a pure skilling event to boss slaying

Heists are no effort for the rewards you get for them

[stiff furnace]

yes you absolutely can compare

[quartz sigil]

And you do not NEED these weapons at all

No you can't

If it were from something like Croesus then sure, compare them

But Heists are so easy it's laughable

[stiff furnace]

it’s active gameplay. no different than croesus to me

[quartz sigil]

And not only are the weapons good for the effort to obtain them the other rewards and xp are amazing too

[stiff furnace]

so is rax and so is sus

[quartz sigil]

Croesus is a group boss and Rax is a multi stage boss with time wasting mechanics

And a slightly harder fight at the end

[stiff furnace]

they’re t90 weapons we’re taking about with arbitrary drop rates released than a week ago. you’re talking as if there’s clear rules that should be about their drop rates and usefulness

[quartz sigil]

Heists don't punish you hard enough to warrant the weapons being common

[stiff furnace]

have u even done the arsenal? lmao

[quartz sigil]

If it was a "You got caught, go back to the entrance" sure, then they could be more common

But only the second heist does anything like that, and you can get the weapons even if you didn't get 500 loot

[stiff furnace]

drop rate is tied to amount of loot

[quartz sigil]

Only having a higher chance

You could still get it with sub 500 loot

But obviously if you want them bad enough you would be doing your damnedest to get 500 loot each run

[spice patrol]

and you can still get bolg under 4000% enrage

[quartz sigil]

And trying to complete it as fast as you can to save time

[spice patrol]

i don't think stuff being rare is good

[stiff furnace]

it isn’t good indeed

[spice patrol]

like i maybe wouldn't want stuff to be so common that you get everything you want before learning the content but that's clearly not happening here

[stiff furnace]

as someone who is far endgame and went 4x dry at multiple bosses this doesnt interest me at all. it requires the same attention as other t90 weapon content for me

[quartz sigil]

Stuff being rare is bad if you are an Iron, but good if you are a main

Provided you aren't on the buying end

[stiff furnace]

it shouldn’t take 5x or more longer to get new t90s which rates are set arbitrarily high

[quartz sigil]

But if you are on the selling end it being rare is fantastic for you

[stiff furnace]

there’s nothing good about it as a main

[warped scarab]

On top of that it's 4 straight up BIS items from relatively similar content where each item seems too rare on its own.

[quartz sigil]

Yea, but the fact that these weapons are available to people who aren't good at pve is a godsend

[stiff furnace]

get 1 drop worth 500m or 10 worth 50m is functionally no difference

[quartz sigil]

And you should be grateful you can get them at all

[spice patrol]

rarity doesn't really matter that much when it comes to gp per hour

you just wanna put it where it feels the best

[quartz sigil]

And besides, you make a craptonne of money just doing the heists

[stiff furnace]

it’s 5m/hr for the first if doing 15 min runs

[warped scarab]

~2m per run for pretty high intensity content isn't very much

[quartz sigil]

Unless you are bossing it's pretty great for how much it pays out

[spice patrol]

that's like mining primal ores

[quartz sigil]

And xp on top as well

That's multitasking at its finest

[stiff furnace]

it’s terrible. pickpockets afk is more gp than first heist

[quartz sigil]

And even the salvage from the first heist is worth it

But pickpocketing doesn't give you a chance at the weapons

Which is bonus cash for mainscapers

Or a useful weapon for you to use

[spice patrol]

god i hate alchables

i wanna just make them all have 0 alch value and see what the economy does

[quartz sigil]

My alchemiser loves them

[stiff furnace]

you seem like a new or low lvl iron. as someone who has farmed most t95’s it’s just not great rates or common rewards

[warped scarab]

Trust me that would be bad. The game would go into deflation with all the money removed from G.E.

[quartz sigil]

It's kinda hard to explain where I am

I haven't started any of the tier 95 grinds, but I have completed most sub BiS grinds

[spice patrol]

nah, you could introduce other sources of gold to keep the gentle inflation going

my issue with alching is how everything has a minimum value pinned to it

[stiff furnace]

but as it stands now farming all heist rewards potentially puts u way beyond 120 or even 200m exp. that’s just bad design and doesnt feel rewarding

it’s arbitrarily rare in a game where most recent bossss have extreme rarity already

[quartz sigil]

If you are unlucky

[stiff furnace]

talking average luck here

[quartz sigil]

Average luck.... well you would get at least one of the weapons before 120

[stiff furnace]

yes and that’s not good

when there’s 4 more items to farm

[quartz sigil]

Unless you were already far past minimum requirements when you started that would be terrible

[warped scarab]

1/4th of the possible drops by the time you reach the highest possible level

How is that good design

[quartz sigil]

That's a worst case scenario

[warped scarab]

No it isn't

[quartz sigil]

It quite is

[stiff furnace]

it isn’t

[warped scarab]

Multiple people in my clan and guested clan

Have earned 60m+ xp with nothing

[quartz sigil]

Besides, you aren't promised any of these weapons nor do you actually need them

And when did they start?

[stiff furnace]

they’re endgame spec fodder

[quartz sigil]

Were they already past minimum requirements?

[warped scarab]

That's such a worthless statement

[stiff furnace]

so in a sense for good rotations they are needed

[quartz sigil]

No, you people are just far too entitled for your own good, and it's colouring how you play the game

And now it's affecting your enjoyment of the game

[stiff furnace]

u dont ‘need’ anything in the game so why log in at all right

[warped scarab]

Exactly..

[spice patrol]

lets calm down yall

[quartz sigil]

Because playing the game is fun

[stiff furnace]

lol talk to me again once u’ve done 500 rago for dual wield, or 2k aod for a wand, or 1285 kerapac for a staff, or 1000 gate of elidinis for log as that is thr expected average, or 600 amascut 1-2k’s and that’s considered lucky for log

[quartz sigil]

As soon as you start expecting things you start burning yourself out when you do these things and don't get anything

[quartz sigil]

I am at 800+ Gate and not gotten Dowser or Pet yet

Don't talk to me like I make no effort

[stiff furnace]

mid game weapons shouldnt be a 100+ hour grind. simple as that

[quartz sigil]

Then don't go for them and just farm Rax

Go farm Nakatra and just skip them

[stiff furnace]

they’re bis spec weapons

[quartz sigil]

They are minor upgrades to pre existing weapons

When you consider them for the Finality amulet

You can totally make do with Iban staff or Dragon Claws in your Finality amulets

[warped scarab]

Just to put things into perspective. Rasial set takes 1,659 on average. At 30kph that's about 55 hours. If you're slightly unlucky at heists the mask will take longer. They shouldnt even be close.

[stiff furnace]

minor enough to go for them. your solution to rates being bad is dont interact with the content and you don’t see how that is bad?

[quartz sigil]

That tiny little increase isn't worth getting worked up over

You either aim for them and get them or you don't

But saying "It didn't drop for me, I want the rates changes" is insanely entitled

[stiff furnace]

with that mindset why go for anything.

[quartz sigil]

Because you want to

Why wake up every day if you don't look forward to the grind?

Why play Runescape at all if you don't like the grind?

Go play any of the other MMOs out there that simply hand you loot for nothing

Runescape has and always will be a grindy game

[stiff furnace]

it’s just not respective of your time. if u enjoy doing 100+ hours of heist for a weapon be my guest but telling people they’re entitled to not want that is extremely disrespectful and shows a lack of understanding on how many grinds already exist ngl

[quartz sigil]

The satisfaction is in the rewards

The fact that they are so rare should enhance your satisfaction when you get them

If you don't wanna suffer that kind of grind, go do something else worthy of your time

[warped scarab]

Im getting worked up about your lack of basis for most of your statements. I am not worked up about the drop rates. I was merely discussing that they should be changed.

[quartz sigil]

I have stated over and over the basis for my arguments

[stiff furnace]

finishing my fsoa at 1285 was not satisfactory at all. yiu make a lot of assumptions here

[quartz sigil]

They are MINOR UPGRADES, you do not NEED them, If you do not DROP THEM, and you are not an Iron, BUY THEM USING MONEY YOU MADE ELSEWHERE

They are Finality fodder if you have better weapons

If you don't they are a stepping stone to better weapons

[stiff furnace]

with that reasoning why ever upgrade your gear at all right?

[warped scarab]

But why does that matter

[quartz sigil]

And when you get those weapons you will either alch them or convert them into Finality amulets

[warped scarab]

Just because they're minor upgrades doesnt mean it's fine that they're too rare

[quartz sigil]

To allow you to have better times at high end content

[warped scarab]

It just doesnt make any sense at all

[stiff furnace]

if anything them being very minor upgrades should warrant them being not rare at all

[quartz sigil]

The fact they are minor upgrades means it doesn't matter at all if you get them or not

Min/maxing is unhealthy to players

[stiff furnace]

if it doesn’t matter why make them so rare then

[quartz sigil]

They are no effort upgrades

[warped scarab]

No it isn't

[quartz sigil]

Most people already got the levels for the heists while they were working towards elves when 99 was the cap

Of cours eit is

course*

The fact you feel the need to get these minor upgrades proves they are unhealthy for you

[stiff furnace]

i went from 103 to 109 just doing heist one so again making a lot of assumptions here

[warped scarab]

Why is it unhealthy that I want the upgrades?

[stiff furnace]

wazzy did 70m of heist 2 without a drop

[quartz sigil]

You can pve completely fine without them

They might adjust your kill times by a few seconds at best

maybe a minute at the very most

If you couldn't pve without them then sure, complain away

[stiff furnace]

and you think that’s minor?

[quartz sigil]

yes and no

[warped scarab]

Let's do some induction

If any minor upgrade doesn't matter

[stiff furnace]

in the endgame that’s the difference between gm timer or not

[quartz sigil]

Any time increase is good, but if you already have a good time then why be so greedy?

[stiff furnace]

that’s pretty big

[warped scarab]

In a game built on minor upgrades in pvm

[quartz sigil]

Some upgrades are bigger than others

[warped scarab]

That means barely any upgrade matter

[quartz sigil]

These weapons are not

If you only had an Obliteration before hand, then sure the upgrade is great

[stiff furnace]

then why make them so rare? there’s 0 logic behind that

[quartz sigil]

But if you had Roar, Armadyl or whatnot then the differences are minor

[quartz sigil]

BECAUSE THEY REQUIRE NO REAL EFFORT TO OBTAIN

[stiff furnace]

they require the same effort as me doing rax

[warped scarab]

There are so many logical fallacies in your statements

[stiff furnace]

or ik

kk*

[quartz sigil]

How hard is it to understand the difference between weapons obtained from difficult bosses compared to a glorified obstacle course with some stealing involved

[warped scarab]

It's one of the most effortful skilling acitivities wdym

[stiff furnace]

and u haven’t even done heist 2

[quartz sigil]

You can die to Rax, you cannot die in the first heist

[stiff furnace]

so you lack an incomplete understanding of the amount of effort

[warped scarab]

Dying isn't punishing in itself

lmao

[quartz sigil]

no it's not

But when you compare two similar tier items to the difference between combat and skilling

[warped scarab]

Let's also not forget that rax was released over a decade ago

When the game was in a much different state than it is now

[quartz sigil]

Yea, but the rax weapons are also stepping stones now

[warped scarab]

Aswell as nox components

[quartz sigil]

If it weren't for Necro they would be considerable stepping stones

[warped scarab]

No

Helwyr -> Sanctum

[quartz sigil]

These weapons are stepping stones and finality fodder

[warped scarab]

Easiest skip

[quartz sigil]

Finality fodder you also have other options that are cheaper and easier to obtain

[warped scarab]

But they're not stepping stones

[quartz sigil]

Helwyr weapons are tier 90 accuracy but lower damage

[warped scarab]

They're BIS

[quartz sigil]

Not as weapons, only as Finality fodder

You can make do without them

[stiff furnace]

for something u call minor upgrades and fodder it’s sure as hell weird u defend their rarity

[warped scarab]

They're still bis

If I wasn't so bored from exam prep I wouldnt have bothered with this conversation lmao

Because it's so stupid

[quartz sigil]

But the fact you care so much about their rarity being as high as it is despite their minor upgrade potential just proves that min maxing is bad for your mental state

You feel that you need them when you don't

And you are getting upset because you don't have them

If I could trade my staff for the bow I sure as hell would

If I could trade my staff for a Seren God Bow or a Last Guardian I would

Hell I'd even trade them for one of the Nakatra weapons

[warped scarab]

Fun fact: You can be passionate about something without it being unhealthy. You should try it.

[quartz sigil]

Because the staff is worse than all three of them until I need to add it to a Finality

It is unhealthy

You are getting upset because you don't have them when you don't need them

It's like gambling

You spent your time and you didn't get the payoff

So now it's making you hate Heists

And soon it will make you hate Runescape

[warped scarab]

No, I don't like the drop rates as they are and think they should be changed

[quartz sigil]

They don't need to be changed

If anything, the ring should be obtained earlier than it is

[warped scarab]

If I hated Runescape I would've done so a long time ago

[stiff furnace]

te bo fair we've tried to explain multiple times on why its bad from a player perspective and your response is mostly 'nah its not bad and u shouldnt care as its a minor upgrade and you're entitled'

[warped scarab]

The 5min afk ring with insane xp rates

[quartz sigil]

You fail to realize that you do not need these weapons

[warped scarab]

Should be more common?

Some sound reasoning

[stiff furnace]

you dont need anything in this game if we go that route

[quartz sigil]

The boost it gives to hunter and thieving would be more worthwhile obtained earlier than it is

[stiff furnace]

its a fallacy

[quartz sigil]

You don't need to play the game either but you still do

[stiff furnace]

exactly

[quartz sigil]

You need to upgrade your weapons and armour to do higher end content

[warped scarab]

This is a recurring theme

[stiff furnace]

so my time should be respected and for minor mid game upgrades it shouldnt be so rare

see how we're stuck in a loop here?

[quartz sigil]

The difference here is that I'm enjoying heists despite how rare these rewards are

You are not enjoying the heists so you demand the rewards be given to you

[stiff furnace]

sure but will you enjoy it after doing 60m exp?

beyond 120?

i enjoy the heists but not for that expected amount of time

[quartz sigil]

Why do any skilling past 120?

Because you want what they offer

[warped scarab]

That's your conclusion? It's either black or white?

[stiff furnace]

to get the other 4 rewards

[quartz sigil]

If you don't get them by that time then you are unlucky

[stiff furnace]

since i'll probably only get 1 in that time

[stiff furnace]

thats an assumption. again many community pulled data it seems its expected at this point

[warped scarab]

That's not unlucky, and that's the entire problem

[quartz sigil]

if you started at the minimum required level there's no way you wouldn't get any of the drops by 120

[spice patrol]

i think this conversation has just about run its course, we're starting to go in circles
some of us want the rates changed, some of us don't. great!

[quartz sigil]

Min/Maxing and entitlement are the issue

None of the rewards are promised

[stiff furnace]

sigh circles indeed

[quartz sigil]

You get them or you don't

end of story

It's not like Zemo's Nexus where you get it after a certain amount of kills

You will either get these or you won't

[warped scarab]

Those are outcomes, not probabilities

[quartz sigil]

Indeed

they are not guarantees

[stiff furnace]

maybe read the room lads, anyways time for some food gl

[quartz sigil]

If they were then it would be understandable if you don't get them

But you are not promised these items

So you do not deserve them if you don't want to put in the time or effort

If you want stress free loot, go farm the Tzhaar traders for the amulets

But if you want these tier 90 weapons, go earn them

[warped scarab]

That's some great news

[rigid mulch]

Uhh... wtf did i just read at 7 in the morning?

[stiff furnace]

do we deserve them now?

[quartz sigil]

If they did it then that is that

If it was a decision they made I will not speak against it

[stiff furnace]

it is a decision they made yeah. a good one too

[quartz sigil]

To each their own

[sour harness]

Great update! Super excited. (I haven't had time to even look at the post, much less get online, in over a week 😭)

That said... I think the news post needs to be reread for spelling (image 1) and grammar/run-on sentences (image two)

[stiff furnace]

newsposts and updates have had spelling errors for years at this point lol

we just silently accept it 😛

[sour harness]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/heists--thieving-level-increase---new-skilling-update
This article, my bad

[warped scarab]

This is one of the few good usecases of LLMs

[sour harness]

Maybe I've missed it, but I've never seen any with social media "spellings" before. That's fine for discord or reddit, but for an official post on a company website, at least run it through a word processor. Both Google Docs and MS Word would have caught those. (No LLM needed.)

[quartz sigil]

I see spelling and grammatical errors loads on news articles and patch notes

But considering the amount of errors there are in anime subtitles these past couple of years I can overlook some in Jagex articles

[frigid copper]

Callback to the guy making a fuss about British English vs American English.

[halcyon heron]

They seemingly didnt

[tawdry steeple]

one day the Americans will stop communicating in grunts and hand signals

[stiff furnace]

i'll be honest i really dont care for the occasional spelling error

as long as the ones in game get fixed 😛

[quartz sigil]

Unless it is completely unable to be understood or ruins whatever experience you are having it is completely fine

[stiff furnace]

did the commons get buffed as well?

seems ig et way more loot now

[sour harness]

I mean.. jagex isn't an American company lol

[sour harness]

I don't care about which you use, as long as it's used in a professional manner when in a professional context. 😉

[worn skiff]

my business partners never spell things correctly or use proper grammar

but it is fine since i can read what they are writing and understand the intent behind the message

[visual frost]

We're really splitting hairs over here about this huh

[sage ginkgo]

The buttons could have bigger clickboxes

In the kharid et vault

And it would be a nice QoL if the final crystal would kill the pretorian guy

other than that, the area wide talking is great

And the content is sweet

Also, the fact that the coldfix was applied during the week, instead of waiting till monday, awesome policy!

[south sorrel]

New Thieving Stalls - [Darkmeyer and Zanaris]

• https://i.imgur.com/6x9jeZV.mp4
• https://i.imgur.com/FU4H8Pj.mp4

New Thieving Chests

[Dwarven Mines] https://i.imgur.com/E7ok0pS.mp4
[Chaos Druid Tower Chests] https://i.imgur.com/j4WsmZ5.mp4
[Wizards' Tower Rune Storage] https://i.imgur.com/Gdz8gmB.mp4
[White Knight's Equipment Stores] https://i.imgur.com/4uwn91G.mp4

[Keldagrim Chests] https://i.imgur.com/qbfNDXH.mp4
[Black Knight's Equipment Stores] https://i.imgur.com/lDQpX0U.mp4
[Living Rock Caverns] https://i.imgur.com/ehAPbqK.mp4
[Cadarn Clan Chests] https://i.imgur.com/K8fTJAx.mp4

[Ourania Altar Cave Chests] https://i.imgur.com/QkreHbZ.mp4
[Yanille Wizard Guild Chests] https://i.imgur.com/BMJT9ix.mp4
[City of Um Chests] https://i.imgur.com/VInEHng.mp4
[Darkmeyer Chests] https://i.imgur.com/t8K7JuU.mp4
[Rasial's Citadel Chests] https://i.imgur.com/uvwEI4i.mp4

_ _
All right that's all the map changes

There were these texture changes: https://i.imgur.com/xsafF75.mp4

Which would make certain areas look different:
https://i.imgur.com/DBtuIId.mp4

And the overhead emote changes: https://i.imgur.com/ahZ9yQ9.png

[rotund ginkgo]

they should buff yak hide armor

[elder latch]

guess the two new colours will arrive with monday's update

[south sorrel]

techncially there's 3

[dusty ledge]

is there a reason why the Nodon spike harness is so rare but untradeable?

is there bad luck mitigation or a vault clear "KC" limit that guarantees the drop?

[nova glacier]

I think it's meant to be like Zemouregal's Nexus, where it's a permanent untradeable upgrade for your ammo slot. I don't know if Jagex implemented a threshold requirement like the Nexus though, or if it is just random until you get it.

[charred hornet]

For anyone doing Vault or Arsenal, please DM me or @ me with screenshots of your chat log loot, I'm trying to get bounds updated for loot tables on the wiki

[opal crater]

For those farming Rings of Vitur, what is the average amount of shiny columbarium keys you get by the time you get each ring? (Using it as a reference since it is at least a rare drop)
Edit: I finally got it at while having 72 keys, which are 1/500, so the ring is something like 1/36k?

[regal valley]

Does the Am-Hej retain the Berserker Necklace 5% boost? I'd like to know for EZK purposes. @halcyon heron

[quartz sigil]

I'd also be interested in hearing if there are any intentions on a necklace that fuses both the Am-Hej and Am-Zi together to make a BiS melee necklace

[scenic belfry]

no

[waxen vault]

I've been playing with the am-zi. I really like the idea of it, but I just can't find a spot to use it :/

What could be really cool is give it a set effect (The Am-Zi/Hej) and the Nodon Spike Harness that when they are used in tandem you yeet your spikes at them with each smack instead of when you are smacked, giving you a pseudo-passive of the t92 scourge. Could make Dual Wield go brrrr, even though it's not effected by zerk. Could also make the melee bleed ring feel fancy. Just a thought.

Edit: I'd probably not count it as reflect damage when the set effect would be active, to avoid the synergy with the enchanted platinum ring. Or do, who knows lol

[spice patrol]

if these necklaces were introduced into osrs they'd be all anybody could ever talk about for certain pure builds, i really like that about them
but somewhat unfortunately they're rs3 items and need to fight a losing battle for their place in a sandbox where combat pures of any variety are but a faint memory

[quartz sigil]

Hence why I questioned whether they would become fuseable in the future

[nova forum]

Why is there a cap of 500loot when you can get more?

cap the loot but give us the exp for fully doing hiests

[quartz sigil]

It's capped at 500 and there's more than 500 points worth of loot so if people goof up they don't suffer too much for it

[nova glacier]

But like, why cap it? Just set a minimum threshold to roll for uniques and allow people to loot more if they wish.

[quartz sigil]

Dunno, just the way it is

[solar mason]

I seem to be failing a lot more in Pyramid plunder after the update even with crystal mask+lightform+aura even on early floors

[nova forum]

how does it work for uniques

first hiest im missing that last room and just finishing

with like 450 average

[scenic belfry]

they're two completely different items from different content and areas

[scenic belfry]

Am-hej does well enough that it turns eof into a switch for anyone willing to do that, and there is interest in reducing eof's stranglehold on the neck slot so there can be more amulets. The problem right now is that there are so many damage buffs that am-zi can't really compete with am-hej

[waxen vault]

Yeah, even for dual wield... which is sad because that was their target. Any ability that hits 3K+ is better off with the am hej. Any ability 2,500 and under is slightly better with am-zi, but very slightly. Melee just can't grico the way ranged can lol.

Honestly if am-zi was 10% of attack as an ability damage bonus (like leng swords), it would actually scale and be better. (Basically being half lengs, since hej is half ezk. Total of 36% ability bonus with 12% from zi and 24% from lengs)

Would be weird math for players, but the tooltip could just be Melee attacks deal [Number] (12% ⚔️) additional damage.

[solar mason]

so I had 20 rolls for 500 done so guessing its 1 roll for anything per 25 points

kind of a croesus system

[paper niche]

Vyres are tooough for pickpocketing. 😅 Very high catch rate and damage, and can only use camouflage some of the time when they stand in a good spot or their friends get angy. Have died a couple times trying to use camouflage and forgetting to or being slow to swap back to the house drakan outfit when banking to heal / when they move out of safe spots. I think it's fine, just an observation really.

[digital jackal]

what level are you?

all i used was crystal mask and that was enough to 5 min afk em. had the house drakan outfit on

if you're a main, you can also buy the ring of vitur which makes them unaggro and allows the camo outfit for bonus pickpockets

[paper niche]

😮 I'm 120 but haven't heard of crystal mask. That's good to know that the ring stops aggro too. That's what I was trying to get from pickpocketing actually

[paper niche]

I'm guessing not much data has been gathered yet but anecdotally does LotD/HSR have an effect on the rare thieving loot?

[marble linden]

i know some adjustments were made but the ratio between xp rates and unique rates still feels really bad. i gained 50-60m xp since the update to hit 200m thieving and i only got 1 of the new items added to the game (it was the ring). my iron isn't having much better luck, either

was the intent really to expect people to get 300m thieve xp if they wanted to get the items? why are people constantly maxing xp in a skill before "finishing" the main content associated with it? extremely likely to go way past 200m arch trying to finish inquis/spear tip/recipes. ultimate slayer is unironically like 800m slayer xp. 200m farm happens well before breeding logs get finished (unless you buy breeding pairs). don't even mention combat xp and boss logs

really feels like xp across the board is several orders of magnitude too high if running out of it is something that accidentally happens along the way while playing the game