#Game Jam - Thieving

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

stiff kindle
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Bit weird to upgrade somebody else’s storage and expect them to put more stuff in it after.

rose pivot
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better chests gives them a false sense of security, which makes for easier targets.
light

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Tarddiad chests

  • Tarddian crystals
  • Crystal fragments
  • A piece of crystal armour (very rare)

Chase items
Ancient crystal seed
Can be turned into an attuned / normal, crystal weapon / armour seed

(Ancient / Attuned) crystal mask
while worn :

  • Acts like the ring of Charos (a) - auto picks charm dialogue when available
  • Prifddinas worker strike limit increased by 2 (3 > 5). doesn't apply to currently alert clans.
    Attuned only
  • Acts as permanent crystal mask spell.
  • Always hear the voice of seren

Attuning cost

  • 500 Tarddian crystals
  • 2k harmonic dust
  • 1000 crystal mask casts worth of runes (staves don't work)
  • becomes untradeable

Showing either mask to Robin at the thieves guild, with a vial of stench, passively adds that effect.

white sedge
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passive crystal mask seems bad, afking doesn't need a buff

rose pivot
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Could have it store buff duration instead then.
It does come at the cost of not having the exo skeleton or master outfit with it though

rose pivot
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The TzHaar library has some Tzhaar-Mej in a little area that's basically only used during quests, they might be a neat pickpocket target.
potential loot

  • Tokkul
  • obsidian charms
  • fire runes / fire combination runes
  • upgrade item for Toktz-mej-tal, possibly make it count as a fire / lava staff
  • Tzhaar books that you can hand back to the librarian for some Tokkul
  • ashes (remnants of nearby human books)
calm gull
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yes to combination runes

somber plover
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Anyone figured out if it's worth swapping to the ouriana chests or the fairy spirit stall when you hit 108, ,or should i stay with the priff chests?

limber geyser
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75% chance for coins from Arch Professors REALLY killed them as a viable item source, I dont mind that theyre like 2-3 Artifacts/hour now, but the fact they give so few materials now is a real shame

toxic hazel
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It feels a bit wrong that I'm able to get 50ish mil xp in a week from this update, by doing afk methods and heists. I really don't think it's okay to have methods that are 1m xp an hour that are fully afk.

somber plover
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Still feel like i'm still semi-struggling to figure out the best method to afk-level: i'm 107 thieving and can almost 100% crux eqal knights with crystal mask. Would i be better off with some other method? i'm not sure how much better chests are for e.g., i feel like they're better xp but not certain. (Then again Archaeologsts are 100% afk and 100% success rate)
i feel like i have a hazy idea of the success rate % and how it's calculated. A bunch of stuff says "adds 5% to your thieving success rate" but like. how do i know if i'm currently 85% successful or 60% or 99%? should i just do a ton of pickpockets and count how often i fail?

rose pivot
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There's actually some stalls at the varrock square, that could be proper thieving stalls.

  • Baraek's fur stall - he could probably also get a proper store on top of his dialogue
  • Empty market stall next to it
  • Newspaper stall - could be a decent low lvl stall
  • Urist Loric's crafting stall (caper only atm) - could be a source of clockwork / trinkets.
winged beacon
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On the topic of the newspaper stall: the Varrock Herald should actually update each week to reflect the update blog, but from the point of view of the NPCs. Like the Thieving update would have had a headline like "Massive Crime Spike: Burglars Everywhere!" and talk about all the different targets reporting a massive spike in theft all on the same day. The obituaries section could list recent HCIM deaths, and the Advertisement section would list various obscure NPC shops like Stankers' Poison Chalices.
I totally stole this idea from the OSRS discord by the way https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1416780412403060837

hushed slate
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Heists should not auto end on a dc, give us 10 sec grace to re enter so we dont waste 10 mins

echo osprey
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Xp diff between Goebies and Mages? Its only a lil bit more per xp drop. But xp per hour atleast feels like a big diff?

hallow raft
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calculate the difference in drops,
Multiply that by 3000 and you have your xp/hr (if you have sticky fingers activated)

echo osprey
hallow raft
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if you use all buffs, they barely move,
Find a world with nobody currently there in pickpocket there
Sadly this is another case of being anti-social gives you the best xp ratews

hallow raft
quartz shoal
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Could the majority of chests be more reward oriented and not really meant as a training method?

Have the chest give a notable reward if you're passing by - enough to make it worth looting especially for early game progression, but not worth camping. Most chests would then teleport you away and have a really long cooldown, or even a trap if you fail it.

This gives chest looting a unique identity as a training reward for lower level thieving progression across gielinor rather than trying to belance multiple different training styles. It also makes it feel a lot more like you're looting across the world, rather than standing around to pick up a spawn.

winged beacon
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Chest lock picking is also less XP than Crystal Mask pickpocketing at the same levels, despite being much more active and much less rewarding for loot. Pickpocketing is just too strong.

rancid mountain
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I have been doing some work trying to figure out level breakpoints across certain equipment for the new pickpockets.

I did some testing on the Menaphite Market Guards last night.
and Previously some work for Archeology Professors.

image.png
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The way that the new pickpocketing NPCs work is completely different compared to the previous "success chance Low High threshold" system from before.

It looks like to me the "low high" threshold was replaced with a flat per level numerator increase. for the X over 256 RNG roll for failures.

Additionally. I am making assumptions that the Ring of Vitur is a 5% additive buff instead of multiplicative like Gloves of Silence or Soul in a Box is.

@frank canyon Is there any way you'd be able to shine some light on the base thresholds and increases per level for the new pickpocket targets? With some information we could possibly make a Wiki calculator figuring out the 100% success breakpoints. Much like level breakpoints for double loot.

frank canyon
rancid mountain
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Thanks for replying on your day off. 🙂
I am excited to see what the numbers are like.
Its really nice to see that some of the targets don't require insane uptime. Like above you can ring and five finger at 119 for 100% success.

frank canyon
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Yeah the intent was to not be like dwarf traders and their base ~30% success chance

spark sparrow
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Wym players don't enjoy being punched in their face and stunned 2/3rd of the time

frank canyon
rose pivot
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Could be worse, a dark wizard would just teleport you to the abyss or the middle of the desert if they caught you picking their pockets

somber plover
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yeah, but then that could turn out to be the meta for getting around the map... :p

winged beacon
rose pivot
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just noticed that chaos druids don't drop chaos runes, and realised chaos druids might make for decent pickpocket targets.

  • herbs
  • berries (red, cadava, dwell, janger, white, poison ivy)
  • very rare chance of zamorak / guthix grapes
  • wine (of zamorak / guthix)
  • mind, body, chaos, nature runes
limber geyser
devout quest
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Personally I'd certainly hope so. If not, then at the very least significantly tuning down the XP a lot more. Pickpocketing XP + loot gain right now is insane for how AFK it is (and I honestly think thieving exp rates in general have gotten way out of hand)

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I posted a similar comment on that news post today on Reddit just now but I honestly think having any base XP rates higher than 1m/hr is crazy, let alone for AFK stuff.

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800k-1m should be reserved for active skilling/training methods, with AFK peaking at like 500k-750k. (Depends on the skill etc) We're seriously getting so dangerously close to just outright having "skip-scape" where the entire idea of early game is sacrificed just to get people to the endgame ASAP, genuinely hurting one of the fundamental stand-out features of the game - its skills system..

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(note that with stuff like DXP/bonus XP and extra bonuses from stuff like skilling outfits etc, these 800k-1m methods would still push the insane 2.5-3m xp/hr marks)

limber geyser
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I am perfectly happy for the xp to be kneecapped to death, make sticky fingers be 0xp for all I care. My worry comes from the killing of the resources. Everyone is pretty ecstatic for a new way to gather clues and I’d rather not see that suffer. Same goes for master mages for pure essence and fairies for charms. As it is, I think arch professors have been nerfed too much - 75% chance for coins makes them awful for resources. I don’t want to see the resource gathering suffer for the sake of balance

devout quest
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Idm the resources it gives with fair balance so it ain't too crazy, but main concern for me is indeed the XP rates..

white sedge
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it is what it is - as long as resources remain 15 minute afkable they're gonna crash

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my own concern is ensuring that the fact that 15 minute afk is so accessible for so many while working or w/e doesn't result in those resources not being available at much faster rates by actually playing the game

limber geyser
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Thing is, with the removal of Treasure Hunter, mains are going to need actual resources to train with, so even if they crash in the short term, they will recover. Plus they will always have a use by Irons

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I will say that resources should be better rates from their actual skill/ drop sources, but seeing as the rates are likely never getting buffed to a level on par with thieving 15 min afk its kinda a moot point

white sedge
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if they are and the method is a 15 minute afk method, they are going to be worth basically nil

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(which is fine imo)

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if they have to be worth something and the main method of getting them is 15 minute afk, the acquisition rate is going to be unreasonably slow

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what's not worth protecting here is any profit associated with an afk method

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there's no strong reason why afking should ever be capable of making any money at all imo

steep sparrow
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Like Goebies for example:

428 + 250 + 750 + 250 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 1,688

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1,688/2,000. What does the other 312 give or does that mean we have 312/2,000 to get nothing/blanks?

steep sparrow
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Probably worth mentioning that the cog at the top left corner with the settings set to (a/b) will show the rates how Jagex does it vs the default first option of the wiki guys format in case that helps.

rose pivot
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perhaps a bit late, but thieving stands out for having peculiar boosts for the skill level (e.g. s'qirk juice / poison chalice).
perhaps some proper thieving potions could be a good addition.
having the recipe unlocked through the thieves guild or some such.

i've got a suggestion with ingredients listed here: https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/1454245635552313396

winged beacon
kind nymphBOT
calm gull
storm flower
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from a suggestion i just made

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Currently with the new thieving update consistency for pick pocketing chance is all over the place. with no boosts a wizard tower mage has 100% chance at 89 thieving and requires 64 to start, crux equal druids require 42 thieving but still are not 100% chance at 98 thieving.master farmers require 43 thieving and have a 1% failure rate at 99 with gloves of silence.

My proposal is to standardise items that lower chance to be caught and similar to initial chance to be caught, this will provide consistency across all pickpocketing.

the below is an idea and can be tweaked as required.

n = level unlocked
pickpocket chance @ n = 25%
pickpocket chance @ n + (n/2) = 100%

this will then increase through the level range till it hits this as example using master farmers at 43 thieving there is a 25% chance, at 65 thieving there is a 100% chance

items that effect pickpocket still as to the % success rate such as gloves of silence add 5% so at level 43 master farmers would be 30% chance.

this change would increase consistency and allow easier understanding of when 100% chance is reached

cloud shoal
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On a somewhat similar note - would it make sense to add the 'Stop failing' levels for pickpocketing to the guide, like how Cooking guide has it for 'Stop burning ...' (screenshotted)? It'd be a nice buff to the skill guides, I find them a bit lack luster sometimes.

image.png
devout quest
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Doubt it, since "stop failing" can be so varied depending on boosts, be it outfits, crystal mask, with lightform, aura etc etc, cooking is way more rigid with the only real burn-prevention being level, cooking gloves or skillcape

rose pivot
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there's a few ranges with reduced burn rate though

winged beacon
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The wiki has a calculator for your success chance based on level, boosts, target, etc. that’s just some simple JavaScript. It shouldn’t be too hard to implement a calculator into rune metrics or alt1 or something.

devout quest
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Fair enough, ish.. regardless I feel as though it would bloat the skill guide a bit unnecessarily.. if in the future we get plug-in support for RS3, maybe then someone could make such a thing

oblique falcon
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Stop failing without any buffs is very much enough, and info that is relevant.

I made the thieving chance calc, i still have to add new NPCs, but life gets busy sometimes!

somber plover
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on the bright side, the latest update notes say they'll be re-balancing pickpocketing catch rates as part of the upcoming skill rebalances.

somber plover
devout quest
# somber plover you asked, they listened (clearly this was the one comment that pushed them over...

🤣 ofc, ofc! All me etc.
Nah I mean, they've kind of spoken on it before in the sense that people have been asking for a while, and I think a few Jmods even mentioned over time in reddit comments and stuff that they'd love to see it in the game too but that at the time there were no official commitment to it or anything like that, might also have cited some tech limitations and/or the level of carefulness they'd need to bring with it.. That said, this is just some faint bell in my head ringing telling me I've seen these things, for all I know it was in a dream 😂 don't quote me, all the same I'm happy that it's officially in the works/plans now.

Not too surprised though, last year I feel like I read so many patch notes that included hints at engine stuff and other back-end work on the game.. Felt that I saw way more of them than I'd done previous years and it made me think they were looking to make some big changes even before they said as much, but I was still blown away with just how much they are looking to do this year :p but even if in the end they end up only managing to do half of it all, it'll still be the best year for RS3 since well... RS2 became RS3

somber plover
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Yeah, it's absolutely phenominal - i'm super excited for all that they've promised. Even if they cancel half of it and the other half doesn't live up to the hype, this'd still be a phenomenal year for the game :p

devout quest
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Alright now even I will pump the breaks a little bit on that 🤣

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sometimes botching something is worse than doing nothing at all ;D

elder birch
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Alternative means of accessing black ibis

Invention perks that affect heists

Both would be super slay. Also, Sponge, the thieving update was an all-time banger of an update on irons in particular. My biggest resource woes were all resolved in one fell swoop in a way that feels reasonable. I can also now reasonably craft a blessed flask!! Thank you so much for your work on this, I wasnt expecting it but it was genuinely update of the year for my GIM

calm gull
stoic zodiac
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Not sure if Daze has been looking in here recently, but I would love an update on his changes to Pyramid Plunder