#The Future of MTX - Our Approach & Your Involvement

1 messages · Page 5 of 1

rain panther
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I see doing seasonal hub events for cosmetics as content, just that I don't want it to generate exp

proper nimbus
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But if you want a response to your initial point, Kleitian, I do not agree the MTX changes are wasted effort

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I know people that are returning due to these changes

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I'm resubbing due to it

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There are hundreds of posts with high interaction on every social platform discussing this with people with similar sentiment

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The former players I've sent this to are now much more interested in the game again

violet aspen
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I personally believe in the untapped potential of the death of p2w MTX. I’m skeptical of how it’ll be handled, but I’m sure a large portion of the player base is

rain panther
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Some of my FC mates in xiv are interested in trying rs3 because upcoming patch is dry

proper nimbus
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We'll see how it shakes out, but wasted time and effort? That would require us to believe Jagex is lying about the negative impact it has

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I get that you're interested in more events, but the people working on these changes are the MTX team

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The roadmap is, according to Jagex

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not changing whatsoever and no content devs are being used on this, this is entirely handled by MTX team

violet aspen
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Naturally. There would be massive pushback if content was not king

proper nimbus
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so your concern about resources being misspent is misplaced

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holiday events are handled by normal devs

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you're not getting anything less or more from MTX being addressed, its not an either or

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Criticising this change is fine but at least criticise it on something that is the case

violet aspen
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Okay I’m briefly caught up now. I’m personally a bigger fan of permanent content, but naturally I think seasonal content has a place. The inclusion of one does not remove the other

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I also feel somewhat similar. As long as the xp isn’t a meta method, I could care less

formal glen
# proper nimbus But if you want a response to your initial point, Kleitian, I do not agree the M...

...Look, you're gonna have to agree to disagree here, because I, respectfully, don't agree with you and no amount of reference to masses of non-scapers you conveniently know that are now, magically, interested in rs3 over what hasn't even happened won't change my stance either (and, unlike you, I am both a newer player and currently subscribed, which says a lot more 'bout my desire to see rs3 survive than someone conveniently tossing in that they're going to re-sub like that somehow proves their argument is superior) 🙄

violet aspen
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This also isn’t some contest about who cares about the game more

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If somebody is wanting to resub, they clearly care

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I’m a 20 year veteran who plays every year and is usually subbed. That means nothing in the scheme of who cares about the game, though.

proper nimbus
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The issues I had is being addressed and thus I want to play again

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The issue I had is that you're making claims about spending resources that would never have been spent on temporary events in the first place

violet aspen
hardy ridge
proper nimbus
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❤️

nova skiff
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I just came back to the game a few days ago after a 3 year break and I’m glad to mtx is being dealt with

I just felt like RuneScape lost its charm,
I used to enjoy the grind of leveling and progressing through the game. I did most of my 99’s before eoc dropped

Seeing people brag about spending irl money on keys and lamping all the way to 99/120 just made it feel less special / less of an achievement
I think this type of use of mtx is why rs3 isn’t doing so well in terms of players compared to osrs

I have no issue with cosmetics, I think they’re great
But the p2w exp gaining needs to go

ivory yew
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I know a lot of people are excited about the removal of th. But I'm not sure why people are going about mtx being removed when it's not. The whole week will see th being removed and Jagex selling direct XP to players. It's all coming full circle really. What the big heads always wanted. Just selling direct XP. Th for all it was allowed players to get some free XP from free daily keys, quests, and oddments. If Th gets removed, we might see the end of this.

I'm not supporting th, obviously it has it's issues notably being predatory in that you have to keep spending to get the unique promotional items. Like tokens and such. This can negatively affect people with addiction issues or other problems.

I just want people to look at positives th had, albeit few. And I also don't want people to go around saying mtx is being removed when it was never stated that it would be. This carries the potential of XP being directly sold to players and I'm not sure how most people truly feel about that

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If people hate that you can use keys to get 99s, 120s, and 200m xp, I don't think selling XP directly is any solution to that. It just seems to make the problem worse

proper nimbus
long star
compact rivet
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pay to skip is still a bad thing in the long run

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which directly purchaseable (bonus) xp is

proper nimbus
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It very much is

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Honestly having a super limited BXP feels to me like, why don't just do the final step and get rid of it

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We're getting rid of 95% of the bad and then keeping that last bit instead of just tossing the taint entirely

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Why not just do the final step

vernal anvil
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I think dxp still brings in the population bump

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Whilst it snipes minigame contents ability to provide bonus xp

proper nimbus
compact rivet
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they basically killed casual summoning training to the point of it never being even decent to train outside of em

proper nimbus
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Weekly hiscore jumped from like, 156k players to 162k people or something similar for last pre-dxp to dxp

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Its not exactly a major bump in bringing in people that weren't playing

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But since 1 people playing 10 hours is equivalent to 10 people playing 1 hour when it comes to concurrent numbers

violet aspen
proper nimbus
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That those that play, DO player longer hours, that turns into higher concurrent numbers

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as naturally people are concurrent with eachother at more hours of the day

proper nimbus
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You realise how bad DXP are in a moment

vernal anvil
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I'm happy to be wrong cause I kinda would like to see dxp go I think?

proper nimbus
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yeah we'll see, but I can go grab two weekly hiscores to show what I meant

violet aspen
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I wouldn’t mind it

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Dxp events feel like a symptom of poorly balanced training

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It feels like it belongs, but that’s only because of some of the pains in the game

compact rivet
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well they started as a one time thing as a celebration i believe

proper nimbus
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DXP started 21st of february

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Here is week prior

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at 158,436 players featured

violet aspen
proper nimbus
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week after

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163,888 players featured

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thats within normal weekly variation

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but former week had no dxp

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and the latter week had 5 first days of DXP

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Even more notably

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the week prior again to this was 164 168 players

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So DXP couldn't even breach a non-dxp week two weeks prior

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that doesn't seem like a massive meaningful player draw

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thats normal variation

violet aspen
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Personally, I think with additional temporary game modes such as Leagues, it kind of fulfills the feeling you get from dxp. And it does so without impacting the main game

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The eventual drop of these events for new temporary ways to play is okay with me

proper nimbus
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I realise I'm harping a bit about the weekly hiscore numbers but I really do think it challenges the automatic assumption of DXP being this super important thing for bringing in players

violet aspen
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Right, and temporary player spikes can be achieved else way

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I’m a fan of bonus xp granted via gameplay, though. I’m just not much on paying for it.

proper nimbus
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Its also why I don't really think we'll see much impact from DXP change of proteans

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As in, change meaning "people not playing because they're disliking the change"

compact rivet
proper nimbus
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Given that it pulls similar numbers to literal patch weeks

proper nimbus
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Wonder what will be the most panic bought thing

restive tiger
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From a legal standpoint, some people bought premier membership to receive an X amount of daily TH keys, so even if TH is disabled during July, we are legally entitled to continue receiving the keys to use after July experiment

compact rivet
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unfortunately, yes
on the bright side, they will hopefully not infect next year's premier pass

proper nimbus
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Hang on I'll dig it up

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its already known, addressed, and you're getting what you're entitled to

restive tiger
long star
proper nimbus
gray root
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the goal is to increase it on the users end not the monsters. its primarily for movement. tick based attack actions would remain the same.

obtuse tinsel
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How do OSRS players deal with the slower xp rates? I feel even without DXP, RS3 has faster xp rates than old school. OSRS survives fine without a DXP

cunning pond
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^

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Dxp has always been a gimmick to lure players back. Now’s it’s become so mainstream it affects our game economy. They need to phase it out

proper nimbus
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OSRS survive fine without DXP

RS3 ironmen and GIM survive fine without DXP

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If anything both of these thrive without DXP

rain panther
# proper nimbus If anything both of these thrive without DXP

The problem with DXP and stuff I feel is that it is antithetical to the appeal and gameplay loop of RuneScape and its also a patchwork solution to gripes players have with the skill
So right now the loop is just hoard for DXP dump everything during DXP then wait and hoard for next DXP, rather than a consistent supply and demand which affects the economy and prices
Look at construction, at first it used to be insanely dumb expensive and fuckall cumbersome to gather planks and stuff for it, but with the introduction of skilling methods like construction contracts and fort forinthry you can get your construction up at a good pace

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so instead of fixing issues people have with a skill or making new and more interesting methods just lol dxp it away

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the silverhawks problem once again

compact rivet
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dxp was intended as a special event

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it was never meant to become the norm

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but it did

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then mtx took a hold of it

proper nimbus
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Precisely. It encourage a bad way to play the game.

compact rivet
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and made it the damn baseline

proper nimbus
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Ultimately I don't think DXP will be handled any time soon, if ever

compact rivet
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so they have to increase the events to keep em feel relevant

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and add ways to spend your dxp time

proper nimbus
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But the ideal step would be to slowly wean off how many is run at least as a start

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Then it could slowly be sunset

compact rivet
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because dxp wasn't enough to get people interested anymore

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since people have millions of fake xp on skills from th

light helm
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tbh I unironically think DXP would be healthier overall if it weren't regular

compact rivet
light helm
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maybe it comes once or twice a year, but not in a regular 3 month frame and only with a couple of days prior warning

compact rivet
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we've gotten to the point that people can't even spend the amount of bonus xp they get on a daily basis, unless they go out of their way to grind it out

light helm
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Or the other option that comes to mind is that you have it for portions of the playerbase at a time

compact rivet
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regular play doesn't account for 500k bonus xp on a daily basis from th keys

light helm
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on any given weekend, 2% of the playerbase have DXP

compact rivet
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unless you happen to be going for 200m on that skill

light helm
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500k bonus exp in a day is plenty easy to use up if you're training the skill tbf

compact rivet
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which also indicated a problem

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since that's 1/400th of max xp

light helm
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Well, assuming you're higher levels in the skills at least

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Why is that a problem?

compact rivet
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crystallize xp became an issue because of how much xp people could get from it

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just ripping 50% off it by removing bxp woulda done it

light helm
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If we're talking post 99/110/120 content then personally I don't see an issue with exp rates becoming silly

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Because at that point, the only purpose behind it is personal goals, it's no progression of any sort any more

compact rivet
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i mean, that's content that's available earlier than that

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the thing is, when you're counting daily xp gain in millions

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it cuts tremendously into the game's lifespan

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for people that are more so focused on skilling, farming or non-lore aspects

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why would someone bother playing a slightly more fun minigame

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when they can spend 10 seconds doing any form of training

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and get a thousandfold of xp

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and that's on the assumption that there's people at a minigame to begin with to play with

cobalt estuary
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counter point/devil's advocate/whatever its called: what about for those that can't play for long periods of time because they work 70+ hours a week?

hardy ridge
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In the old days, it was level slower, or just the skill you were interested in

compact rivet
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it might takes more days to get there, but the time spend is the same for either

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if the game is fun, why would you wanna spend less time on it

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and if it isn't fun, why play it in the first place

rain panther
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I work around 65-80 hours per week, and I have a bunch of iron friends who work full time jobs w/ no access to the game during those hrs and still have reached endgame, 120 all, all style bis etc
it is all just a matter of planning in advance

so say I want to grind archaeology and i need porters, so i plan my days ahead to gather the energy, the gems, the gold and finally making and stockpiling enough to last until a level bracket where i can stop and do other content, like level a combat job or go train hunter etc

if i'm feeling bored, i can go pick up a slayer task, find out what quest i can do, and with the existence of the wiki, various discords and youtube just make a game plan

runescape is not meant to be a race, its a marathon of just slowly chipping away at your goals

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It's also why my first suggestion to any new player is to get the quest cape as your first goal, it gets you a well rounded account, the downtime training from quest to quest is less, you can check out various training methods etc

proper nimbus
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Whether it takes 4 days or 40 days IRL, as long as people can chip away at progress at their own pace its all good

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After all, OSRS has like 6 times the concurrent numbers and people working long hours still play that game without any DXP

cobalt estuary
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i saw your post Kobra about coming back and i never welcomed you back. so Welcome back

violet aspen
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Yeah we just leveled up slower back in the day and vibed with friends

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But as I’ve said before, these fast xp items from MTX are partially a symptom of imbalance in many of the skills training methods

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They take “bandaid fix” to a bit of an extreme

rain panther
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i will always call them patchwork solutions because they're stupid bandaid fixes that dont deal with the problems at their core

violet aspen
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Exactly

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And that’s where they become predatory, too. “This skill is awful to train, BUUUTTT you can buy these items for real world money and make it tolerable”

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When at the end of the day, the imbalance is still there

compact rivet
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which is the slope people warned about for a decade

violet aspen
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Yep

compact rivet
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or rather, it's one of the main arguments when it was introduced on why it would be a problem

violet aspen
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And that slope only makes the job of the devs harder in the long run

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Now you have several systems needing a tune up

compact rivet
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there is active incentive to mess up balance

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since there's a paid solution for em

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i won't claim they purposefully do it

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but it exists

violet aspen
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Right, exactly

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I’d never directly blame the developers here who really just want to work on a game they love

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But regardless, it’s still an issue

kindred raptor
proper nimbus
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Might not make xp matter again. Will however hugely impact how the game itself is viewed.

burnt mango
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I just hope that if disabling Treasure hunter brings people back, they disable it permanently

proper nimbus
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They don't expect gain in subscribers until any permanent change

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Hooli also say in another post they're not looking for metrics on engagement

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So the scenario of TH removal permanently is absolutely on the table

burnt mango
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idk, they'll be gathering data. and if the trend says people are coming back from disabling the TH. it's a no brainer

proper nimbus
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and its NOT on the condition of massive return of players

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Though of course

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Would be great to see people returning

burnt mango
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you can certainly see a trend over 3 months tho

proper nimbus
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yeah. Just that they state they don't expect big return until permanent change is live, so not experiments themselves.

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and that growth would be over time

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So we don't need to be doomer if numbers aren't that much bigger during experiments

burnt mango
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yeah, it's sad news , getting less money. but it's good to see jagex arent bvurying their head in the sand, they can see they need radical change

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mtx is a bit sad where it is

hallow spruce
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Pretty sure they will bury their heads in the sand starting tomorrow...

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... at the beach.

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🥁

abstract wedge
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When I first started playing RS in 2004 there were three things that stood out about it that made it better, in my opinion, than other MMORPGs at the time: You didn't have to lock your character into a class, you could become master of everything; the full unabridged game was yours for the membership fee with no hidden extras; and game updates usually took at most a day out of your time to deal with, maybe a week for the huge ones, leaving you to spend the rest of your time doing whatever other activities you wanted, which was ideal for new starters.

Playing the game for over a decade I saw the latter two points degrade: Weekly content became metered so it took precisely a week of grinding to complete, dropping you out of whatever else you had planned; no MTX turned into cosmetic-only MTX turned into game-affecting equipment MTX available for days only via TH gambling. In 2015, I left the game after I found I wasn't having fun any more, with the constant grind just to stay in the same place, and the ever-increasing barrage of "spin spin spin" messages like I was in a casino. I felt like my favourite holiday spot had been commercialised.

I came back during the Prime promotions, and found things seemed partially fixed: TH was still rampant but only hawked cosmetics; elite skilling outfits and slayer masks could be earned in-game; content seemed well-paced. Then the cracks showed: The new seasonal hubs needed grinding for over a week for unlocks, updated Shooting Stars rewards took a minimum of 6 days nolifing to fully unlock, Necromancy skilling outfit being available only on TH for 7 days and never seen again... I cancelled my membership out of disappointment. I said I'd renew when the outfit was earnable in-game as they promised they would, they never did it.

I think #1 thing to do to fix this game is drop the gambling. It's a more difficult proposition to balance the game so newbies can catch up but ultra-completionists still feel engaged.

burnt mango
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gambling is chill, but it needs to be lowered. squeal of fortune used to be this stupid thing you'd play each day , maybe you get a large lamp, maybe you get a few thousand coins

kindred raptor
inner vapor
spring crag
long star
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like necro for example was a joke

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which goes to what vad says

proper nimbus
long star
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wishful thinking at best imo

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bxp isnt looking to go

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too many ingame methods of getting it

light helm
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How many methods are there? The only "consistent" one I'm aware of off hand is Fort

long star
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7 direct forms

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stealing creation, heist, cabbage facepunch, townhall, clan cit, agoroth

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barb assualt

proper nimbus
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several of these are for specific skill only

long star
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this isnt including events

light helm
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and also require you to spend significant amount of times in that event in order to get the bonus

proper nimbus
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townhall, clan cit, agoroth isn't

light helm
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Agoroth is like, 20k a week

long star
proper nimbus
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How would BXP for a different skill apply to a new skill, given we were talking about something that would be embargoed?

long star
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sir

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wut

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multi topic discussion

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I answered a question

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0 skills that are embargoed get anything related besides some weird lamps

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necro quests

proper nimbus
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honestly looking above I'm now a bit unsure how bxp existing ingame is really an issue for this

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there is a distinction between xp sold including bxp

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but bxp itself isn't inherently bad or destroying integrity

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Agoroth isn't ruining any integrity in any capacity

long star
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I said its wishful thinking imo on the mtx full stop removal. pause
also said that bxp forms exist in game regardless. nuance to bxp will exist regardless
a good amount of bxp in game forms exist

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really wasnt that critical thought producing as a statement really

light helm
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a number of bxp sources exist*
I wouldn't really refer to any as being good amounts tho

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bar maybe ba

mental canopy
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People making the comparisons to Old School, Iron man are not taking into account not everyone wants to play the game your way. Many people don't have the time to spend 24/7 or close to it to level. I agree they need to limit the amount of xp (and gp) they have allowed into the game and I'm fine with Phasing out Protean items. But many in here sound like they just want to rip everything out and make it like osrs. You have OSRS you have iron man, these both cut out Mtx. As I have said I can agree with phasing out some things or making them less available. Remove buying keys all together but let people ern them by playing the game. As for growing the game they need to make it more NEW player friendly. Most people playing the game are just board because they are Maxed max and Jagex has beeen trying to keep them all happy and not leave. I have 2 Max accounts and did it the first time the long hard grind way. I like old school but most people who stayed on RS3 didn't want to do the grind again. If I was a new player and knew nothing about the game It would be frustrating I couldn't get a mini game going because no one plays them. I get frustrated so I can imagine a new player would. Remove or up date them to encourage more players to play. Make a whole new Castel Wars map change it up, make it random, make a Mini game hub like Wars with rewards that people want not the crap they have that's out dated.

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Maybe make a week that let New F2P players go anywhere on the map and explore P2P just for a week.

proper nimbus
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Have you considered that what keys grant you outcompetes minigames enough that it is part of why people don't play minigames?

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Why play stealing creation, if just using your daily keys get enough bonus xp at far less effort and time, for example?

mental canopy
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There is nothing wrong with bonus xp you just want everyone grind slower. Bxp you still have to do skilling. it just get's you there a little faster. it's the Protean items that hurt the most. Now I read about people wanting to remove DXP. You just want osrs or ironman

proper nimbus
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I agree there is nothing wrong with bonus xp

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The issue is that, if keys are to stay they're still so strong they end up replacing gameplay and a lot of reward sources

mental canopy
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adjust and phase out the op xp items

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Not cold turky

proper nimbus
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Nobody is desiring to return the game to OSRS, because RS3 inherently has much faster xp rate

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Even if you did go cold turkey, its drastically faster than OSRS

mental canopy
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When I'm reading I see the same people over and over again and they seam to want to rip it all out. I wonder how many are osrs players or ironman. I have enjoyed leveling my 3rd account faster but then I know what I'm doing. I don't agree Mtx is the only reason the game is not doing so well. I think there is much more competition and most games have Mtx. Yes, removing a lot of it out or all of it out will help but I think what I hear is all the Xp rewards is what has been bad. I think it really comes down to Protean items replacing the real thing. I will ask you. They have said the alchable items are a issue but they wouldn't remove High-alch. They have the spring cleaner that you can make with invention besides TH. Should they remove it al together? would that be fair to rip it all out. There is a tight rope here and they can't take it all away because there are people who, maybe not be in this thread are saying it, but have said they would quit. So the game looses more ppl. I have my doubts that removing Mtx will suddenly bring back many players to stay. People who quit usally are not that invested in it in the first place and will quit again. Yes it can help but it's new players that will grow the game. "Invite a friend" 😉

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I suck at typing

mental canopy
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I just mentioned the mini games as one example as to all the dead content that needs reviving instead of focusing on max players boredom. They will all rush out and complete the new content and then shortly it will be dead content. No since of community like in the past. You remove portables and DXP and then that too will be gone. Fewer worlds and unlabeled worlds would help because so many are dead anyway. Current players will still go to the same worlds but new players will not know. Maybe just have a mini game world or quest help. Don't need one for everything. A Welcome New Players World and vets can help them. It's got to be more than just Mxt. I'm just throwing things out there.

hoary topaz
hoary topaz
# mental canopy When I'm reading I see the same people over and over again and they seam to want...

They are tackling everything, they are about to roll out that drop table nerf to GWD3, zammy etc, they are also now really taking a swing at MTX, all of it is for the same goal of making the game function in a more healthy loop. I personally dislike the idea of buying xp, even if its bonus, but it makes more sense to be bonus. I think MTX should only be for cosmetics but of course that is my take.

proper nimbus
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Here is Hooli saying that this isn't the only thing they want to address, they want to address UI, returning/early player experience and so on

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So concerns about there being more issues to RS3 than just MTX is duly noted and well known by the jagex team

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And as Bologna brought up just above, the big drop table game health update coming in july

fading forge
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Jagex

When you do the cosmetic drop in Marketplace if you want an actually successful attempt at making that work I suggest you do:

  1. Don't charge full bonds for the cosmetics

  2. Charge RuneCoins

  3. Only charge real money for things if they are involved with a charity other than that stick to RuneCoins.

  4. Let players buy individual pieces on an outfit
    -Should be common sense not all players want / use every part of every single outfit they own. It should be widely known that players would love the ability to buy individual pieces.

-How does that help? Welp not everyone is rich and players will often times choose to skip out on buying something if it only has a couple of things on it they would want so if you allow players to buy individual pieces for example a full outfit set for 150 RuneCoins you can let players buy the full set for 150 or buy pieces for 35 RC each -> 35x5 = 175

Doing it this way just opens the door for more players to engage with MTX and most importantly they feel as though they are getting far better value from their purchases due to now being able to get only what they want if they do not wish to buy the full set.

Lastly!
And possibly the most Important one
5..... Don't rely on just statistics of how many bonds entered the game and were bought / redeemed for RC...
Players have braindead amounts of RC saved up so no duh things will be wonky at the start you need to consume those first and Jagex has a lengthy history of cutting things too soon example being Oddments, they were being consumed at rapid rates with the rotating cosmetics then you stopped making new ones now they are stacked up again. If you just use a hint of common sense and I do mean basic knowledge and let it run long enough for people to consume their stacked up

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RuneCoins you will then start seeing a meaningful change in the data you print out of paper but if you fail to do that like you have every time in the past your goofy head honcho's will say "Eh not going to work time to move on..."

proper nimbus
molten void
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consider: just toss MTX entirely (this is the best decision)

proper nimbus
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Or won't be possible in the very short future

fading forge
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If they do that then everything is fine it's direct purchases nothing is predatory everyone knows what they are buying and how much

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theres no cons to it

proper nimbus
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As in, I don't know to what degree runecoins bundles will be legal in the EU

fading forge
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Thats for a whole different thing

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The suggestion includes to let players buy individual pieces if they choose to so they can avoid buying things they don't want

proper nimbus
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There are several other parts to it but I do expect most companies will offer buying directly with money going forward

fading forge
proper nimbus
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You may have runecoins as an alternative but as exclusive I don't expect that to happen

fading forge
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not basic cosmetics being tossed into marketplace rc exists for that purpose

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what

proper nimbus
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I'm saying the way runecoins currently exist as a system seem to be running afoul of recent (this year!) EU legislation and you should probably not be surpried if they move away from it as a system in part or entirely

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the way runecoins is sold in bundles is one of those things

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That and runecoins is for all intents and purposes cosmetics sold for IRL money

#

doesn't matter if it has one level of obfuscation

fading forge
#

Not talking about how they sell runecoins

#

talking about how they are consumed to ensure the actual majority of players can engage with them

proper nimbus
#

I understand this, but due to this, expectations of runecoins as the exclusive method of purchasing cosmetics may not be doable

#

not without reworking runecoins in the first place

fading forge
#

No rework is needed

molten void
#

no rework needed because you just

#

get rid of it

rapid rose
#

I'm not sure about UK/EU law but with how recent US regulatory agreements have gone, in the US virtual currencies are fine so long as you display the unit item dollar value so like if something costs 350 runecoins, you'd have to display the equivalent dollar value per runecoin

and also offer like a direct way ($) to purchase the item

long star
worn zealot
#

Question to all. Should I take advantage now of having mtx, get as many 99’s as possible before tomorrow or before they take out the ability to get lamps? Do you guys feel like there is a risk of not being able to use lamps for a long time or forever so take advantage now? I do not care if they take it or get rid of it but would like to make use before it is gone.

clever raptor
#

whenever they disable TH it'll only be for 7 days and when it comes back they'll have time to announce any changes if any were to occur well before they happen

#

its not just going to go away, perm, when the experiment happens

worn zealot
#

Ah thank you, so right now there isn’t a big urgency I have time to wait until an official announcement

#

You might of just saved me from spending a bunch of money rn lol

clever raptor
#

and even then it'll cost quite a penny to get 99's from lamps depending on your current levels.

years ago it took someone quite a few thousand irl dollars to get maxed from it. on a rather overpowered promo setup at that. (over many promos and a lot of time)

so they'll announce well ahead of time what the experiments entail, and afterwards on what they may adapt and change. if it were to be fully removed they'd most likely have a timeframe of no buying able to be done, and a set deadline to use them before potentially converting to something else

worn zealot
#

I have been playing since 2008 and stopped for a while, checking in here and there. Although I use so much out of the keys to get 99’s. I do agree that it takes away the effort to get the 99 and is kind of unfair for the they years of grinding. However, since using it, I have gotten 99 str, hp, att, def, slayer , range , magic and 96 herb. My clan tells me I should for for 99 summoning as well since it’s at like 53 now. I will admit that getting all the 99’s does make the game boring. However I might as well get as many before it’s disabled. Thank you for the advice, and you saved me from doing a shopping spree rn for 99 summon and maybe prayer. I have a follow a up question to when you said “ and even then it’ll cost quite a penny to get 99s from lamps “ are you referring to after the experiments are done that it will cost quite a penny?

clever raptor
#

more specifically there was a specific youtuber who tried to max their account from scratch with relatively OP promos (gave a bunch more lamps compared to now), and even then i think was was over 10,000$ to do so. and this was before arch and necromancy.

so depending on your existing progress, i'd consider it potentially costing a fair bit irl to realistically get many 99's from TH as a whole currently.

#

thats one reason that it sparks debate on how much progress is lost or not from TH as while the lamps and such can skip progress.

a few lamps like large prismatic which would be 35k at level 99 (15k at 75, 55k at 120) which are sometimes harder to get in some promos can sometimes be handled as a time saver but depends what method and skill.

but to do 1-99 at even the 99 large lamp rates (which doesn't happen as it scaled) is still about 373 lamps per skill. so, that will add up a lot as those are specifically large lamps. (you'll get more smalls, mediums, and an occasional giant)

so it kind of depends on what luck you get but... it will cost a fair bit.

thick hollow
#

Beginning in July, you can expect the following Experiments to pop up over the next three months:

  • Disabling Treasure Hunter: We will turn off Treasure Hunter, instead offering bundles of Stars and Knowledge Bombs for direct purchase (capped at 1 bundle per day)

Starts July 3rd | Ends July 7th | Phoenix Rising
🤡

#

Good beginning Jagex

spiral ember
hallow spruce
#

Reading is hard.

toxic violet
#

"Hey treasure hunter is unavailable". But also look at this nice treasure hunter thing that's happening

spiral ember
#

well, they never specified when it would be disabled

thick hollow
#

It's a complete pathetic joke on their part

#

"We listened to you but before we disable it lets run one more promo"

true gull
#

okay

hallow spruce
#

I mean, do you want them to disable TH before disabling TH?

spiral ember
#

And without the blog detailing how the experiment will work?

thick hollow
#

It's the same pathetic excuse they keep doing when it comes to MTX

spiral ember
toxic violet
#

If anything you are the one with a pathetic excuse to complain

thick hollow
#

Couple of years ago they said they would reduce the amount of MTX, they did for like 3 weeks when they sneakily increased it bit by bit

true gull
#

buddy

#

they are working on it now

thick hollow
#

till we got back to the point of 24/7 promotions without a break ever

true gull
#

they have outlined what they are going to do

thick hollow
#

it's the same excuse they have been doing over and over when it comes to MTX

toxic violet
#

the th disabling might not even happen in july 🤷‍♂️ they never said that's when it would be

true gull
#

it isn't an excuse

toxic violet
#

You're just jumping at any opportunity to be negative

true gull
#

they are literally doing what they are saying

#

you need to take a step back and chill a bit

thick hollow
#

they aren't

spiral ember
#

How is it an excuse when they clearly said there would be a post detailing the experiment & timing?
I haven't seen a post yet, so they're not doing anything against their word by having a promo still

thick hollow
#

if they say they start in July they shouldn't even run ANY promotion during that month

true gull
#

that isn't how it works

#

they have outlined what they are going to do

thick hollow
#

people like you are the reason they keep getting away with these dumb stuff

spiral ember
#

the experiments run for 1-14 days
during those 1-14 days there will be no promos
nobody said anything about what happens outside that window

toxic violet
#

The experiments start somewhere in july and will be done in a timeframe of 3 months

true gull
#

@thick hollowi'd advise watching it

toxic violet
#

For all we know the th disabling experiment isn't untill september

thick hollow
#

"they listen even after breaking the promise 10+ times"

minor raven
#

Just curious, what about the hundreds of thousands of people who purchased premium membership, just for the extra daily keys, - are they going to be compensated some how? Or too bad so sad, 'thanks for your money, bye..'?

true gull
#

we have the expectation of no personal attacks and to be respectful towards everyone

toxic violet
minor raven
#

Alot

thick hollow
#

doubt

spiral ember
toxic violet
#

Do you have a list of those hundreds of thousands of people?

#

I highly doubt that the keys are the reason people buy it

minor raven
#

Trust me man, it's a huge incentive that persuaded many during the investment.

#

Why do you think Jagex included it in the package?

toxic violet
#

I bet all those ironmans that have it definetly bought it just for the keys 🤷‍♂️

thick hollow
#

Total people playing RS: 144,385
Amount playing OSRS: 126,620
Amount playing RS3: 17,765

deadpancarrot

#

What "hundreds of thousands of people?"

toxic violet
thick hollow
#

might be like 10k~12k member

toxic violet
#

But also. If they end up fully removing treasure hunter i'm sure they'll attempt to maybe compensate you for your losses

#

But we have no idea at all about any of that stuff yet

#

So also no reason to panic and cry about it

thick hollow
#

they can just replace the 1 key with a X amount of oddments each day or week

toxic violet
#

For all we know they'll give you 200m per key you won't be able to use during the experiment

#

( yes i know that's never gonna happen but yah know it's a silly example )

hallow spruce
#

All the missed daily keys are like the missed Seren spirits with HSR.

minor raven
#

It doesn't matter if it's 10 people, or 100 people that purchased it for the extra keys, - Jagex made a deal with each and every premium member that that's what they would provide.

thick hollow
#

things change

hallow spruce
#

I mean, he's right though. Jagex sold a product with a certain condition and can't just change it without appropriate compensation.

toxic violet
#

When they say something like "th is gone and you get no compensation for your keys" that's when it makes sense to cry about it

minor raven
toxic violet
#

I'm not expecting much or any compensation during the experiments though

#

What a classic response. "you don't share my opinion so you must be trolling"

thick hollow
#

Jagex can do whatever they want just like the Rare Item Tokens they removed without a warning and gave the worst ratio ever

hallow spruce
#

Devil's advocate: Those items were never directly purchasable as advertised.

toxic violet
#

Anyways. the expectations are that theres gotta be some compensation. What or how much we won't know untill they actually make permanent changes

#

And if we're lucky they'll even give us something for the lost keys during the experiment

hallow spruce
#

Sucks they were removed, but they can do that.

rapid rose
#

You'll still get your keys during the experiment. You just won't be able to spend them.

pastel cradle
#

Honestly, the majority of the people playing the game wanted to see treasure hunter gone according to the survey. You guys are probably in the minority that you want your 1-14 missed keys out of the however many they already give everyone.

hallow spruce
#

Keys are in a different spot.

thick hollow
rapid rose
minor raven
#

Doesn't matter if we're a minority, or whether we want MTX or not, it's what Jagex sold us.

toxic violet
pastel cradle
# rapid rose

thanks for that, guess we're argueing over nothing

rapid rose
#

Will need more details of course, but it's not like they'd be suddenly removing keys

toxic violet
#

Because "hundreds of thousands of people" bought it for that key

#

And not because it's just the best value package

hallow spruce
thick hollow
#

it's a bit cheaper to just purchase the 30 days double keys pack each time

minor raven
#

Doesn't matter what we purchased premium for, it's what Jagex agreed to when they made a deal with each and every 'premium' customer.

toxic violet
pastel cradle
toxic violet
#

Premier is always there

#

it's just the default 12month package these dyas

thick hollow
#

this year premier membership might even start end of October

pastel cradle
#

I'm sure they won't include keys in the benefits anymore if/when they're removing TH. Otherwise someone will surely remind them of that fact by then

#

not really relevant for the experiments if you ask me

toxic violet
#

Ofcourse they'll be removed by then. But it's about those who already bought it before they got removed that would "miss out on something promised"

#

But yeah not much we can do except wait and find out what they're actual decision ends up being regarding th

#

If it's a full removal or what

pastel cradle
#

yep

toxic violet
#

We atleast know we shouldn't be losing the daily keys we'd get normally during the experiments

weary cedar
#

Not much point discussing this when we don't know if th is going to removed permanently

toxic violet
#

So that's alreayd showing they won't just say "that's to bad you lose"

rapid rose
#

Wait for the announcement blog for the experiment. All will be revealed then

thick hollow
#

Premier Membership release(s)

20 December 2012
3 December 2013
1 December 2014
30 November 2015
28 November 2016
24 November 2017

15 November 2018
14 November 2019
16 November 2020
15 November 2021
14 November 2022
13 November 2023

Last year they had the urge to make it available at the start of November instead of mid November
4 November 2024.

toxic violet
#

It's always available to buy now. they just change the cosmetics nonsense you get with it yearly

thick hollow
#

Might be
November 3rd, 2025
November 2nd, 2026
November 1st, 2027

All on Monday(s)

#

Still waiting for Jagex to revert the update on 3 May 2016 which made each item in the Solomon Store/Loyalty Shop available only with either Loyalty Points or RuneCoins, want to be able to purchase Keepsake keys again for loyalty points

proper nimbus
#

Good news, the MTX change video response was not only bigger but also more positively received than expected

#

#social-feed message

ivory yew
#

What if they made everything purchasable via Rune coins and instead of getting th keys from completing quests you get 200 rune coins per quest and maybe you could also get rune coins from other in game activities?

#

No direct XP, no proteans, no dummies, only bonus XP stars and pulse/cinder cores could be purchased via runecoins

hallow spruce
#

200 rune coins per quest is op.

long star
thick hollow
long star
#

I can actually deny it. It truly wasnt a big deal.

thick hollow
#

They completely ignored polling it and discussing it with the community

long star
#

The items were literally moved and more accessible after. Making it easier to obtain the items

#

It WAS a better move

true gull
#

they haven't polled anything in game in years

#

so i dunno why you are saying that they ignored it

compact rivet
#

I miss those polls

true gull
#

when it just isn't done

thick hollow
#

2014 was the best year

#

It was the year of the Power to the Players (polls)

thick hollow
long star
#

Ill take the current method over more mtx to obtain them in particular, any day

thick hollow
#

Auspicious Katana (level 75 attack), Queen Black Dragon helm, Closed helmet, Skullbuster hat, Headsplitter hat and Kalphite King helm still haven't been added to the marketplace

idle cypress
#

There is a LOT

violet aspen
odd oyster
#

yeah to be absolutely fair, they should probably do some kind of choose your own promo thing towards the end of TH being in the game so everybody can spend keys on the promo they personally have been hoarding for

#

they already kinda did that this week with the choose 1 of 3, but it would need to be every promo, not just 3

#

but then i want treasure hunter GONE FOREVER

proper nimbus
#

Definitely give anyone what they've paid for, but yeah TH gone forever

odd oyster
#

cus the meta is to buy keys when you get a special offer and then hold them until your favoured promo gets here, but if said promo was scheduled to appear after treasure hunter goes away, you'd probably be quite annoyed

proper nimbus
#

Its sort of, buying keys for some unannounced promotion that was never guaranteed to happen?

odd oyster
#

i don't know if i would say unannounced

proper nimbus
#

There already was nothing saying that any future promotion would be better than whatever is currently running

odd oyster
#

i really like tinker trail for example, so i'm holding my earned keys for that

#

its the same thing with bought keys

proper nimbus
#

Is there any promise it will happen again?

#

If tinker trail never happen again there is no broken promises

odd oyster
#

its one of the regular promos, so there's a reasonable assumption it will, but you're right, no "promise"

proper nimbus
#

I'm just thinking about there having been many promotions of the year, a lot of which has been retired

#

Ultimately the only thing I think matter is that people can use their keys before the end

#

Not that a specific promotion happen

compact rivet
odd oyster
compact rivet
#

would be nice if ya did though

odd oyster
#

it would

#

but i won't

compact rivet
thick hollow
#

that one had 10x multiplier and 200m gp reward

#

and you could see what you would get

idle cypress
#

I wonder how big this so called MTX cosmetic bundle will be... I doubt it's going to contain everything

quick imp
long star
quick imp
#

So much stuff lost in time 😦

idle cypress
#

trying to compile everything I can find from TH into a singular list

#

there's sooo many

#

and too easy to miss stuff

cunning pond
# quick imp

i still have pieces of the alchemist necklace that I would love to see return

#

hoping theyre able to also consolidate all discontinued soloman store cosmetics into the store too

quick imp
feral ingot
cunning pond
feral ingot
eager robin
#

Oooh I have some of those clover necklaces forgot all about them 🍀

thick hollow
compact rivet
#

As should the other variants

thick hollow
#

the issue is the gp you get from charges

#

Each charge provides the player with 50,000 coins, with a very rare chance to be rewarded with 1,000,000 coins instead.

compact rivet
#

Well yea, no charges obviously

#

Just the daily free alchs

#

You can currently reclaim it uncharged for like 10k at diango if ya had it

#

Just have that version unlockable

spiral ember
proper nimbus
#

Thats hot

toxic violet
#

😦

#

Time for the "i only bought brooch of the gods for the bonus on portables" person to start complaining

cunning pond
#

Lol. 10/10 comment

pastel cradle
#

Honestly, they should make the fort skilling stations give the portable fletcher/cooker/flatpack/well buffs and the crafting guild the crafter.

proper nimbus
#

How about cooking guild get cooking benefit

cunning pond
#

Slayer cards should come from slayer masters or minigames

#

Proteans, silver hawks, dwarven tools…more valid invention craftables

#

Auras could also be crafted or found via drops or vendors. There’s a great suggestion that utilizes Famine for skilling auras like War is to combat auras #1371709705742979073

quick imp
#

Wonder how long after the experiments it could come permanently into the game, lets say big majority are happy with the th removal experiment, will it be removed soon after ?

#

Or like 2028

feral ingot
#

F2P is already being shafted with all this talk about switching to bonus xp (which we cannot even use outside of DXP). I'm tired of people asking to take MORE things away from us

toxic violet
#

Just become a member

final wolf
#

Invention historically makes untradeable versions of th items, but thats only because the existing items are still received via th

cunning pond
#

I mean these items are thematically related to invention. Quality of life items have always had some gatekeeping with either a skill or level or quest associated with it

#

Just because say magical vials were once earned via keys, doesn’t mean it should be accessible universally

hallow spruce
#

Portable forge into luminite injector was a loss for sure.

final wolf
#

With to bxp & f2p, I would expect changes to how that works if the stars are only received via direct purchase

cunning pond
#

You need to be able to time and resource sink into those items. And invention is perfect for it

#

@odd oyster I read that bxp proposal and I think an interim decision to nerf how bxp works isn’t terrible and a fair middle ground. But honestly the continuation of adding bxp via mtx is still a no in my books and purist heart

#

Still believe if MTX is to effectively change for rs3 we also need to have the eventual conversation on xp caps and possible prestige systems - keeping the competitive nature alive

#

But that’s a conversation down the line

cunning pond
feral ingot
feral ingot
# cunning pond I mean these items are thematically related to invention. Quality of life items ...

The number of people who have members AND invention unlocked AND are willing to make portables for a reasonable price is probably smaller than people think.

Invention is an expensive skill. People would charge a premium for portables to help recoup the costs of the skill itself. Otherwise, if they cannot make decent money, they will not bother making portables at all.

Plus, many people who have high invention are probably making their money mostly with bossing; they are not going to stop bossing to make portables for selling unless those portables go for a "good price", such as 200K a pop or something.

This is my concern. Portables are going to eventually disappear completely from the GE listing because the people who could make and sell them simply will not make them

#

One of the F2P ways of making money for bonds is to tan leather at the GE using crafter portable. If portables are too high a price, then this is going to go away too

#

I hope I explained myself in a way that made sense

hallow spruce
#

No offense, but F2P being unable to tan hides at a portable crafter for money towards a bond seems like a non-issue imo.

#

Would it suck? Maybe. Rates are lower, but not reduced to 0.

feral ingot
#

Having them disappear or get super expensive will most likely not be something that will be popular

hallow spruce
#

Back in my days we ran back and forth between banks and tanners.

#

Popular != healthy, which is what these MTX experiments are about.

feral ingot
#

Leather was probably going for higher rates, too, though

proper nimbus
# cunning pond Nah. All portables and like almost every TH and discontinued SoF consumables sho...

We've actually deleted a portable once before, the portable forge.

What took its place was luminite injector, which is literally the "move the benefit of a portable to a skilling guild".

Ultimately, we have to judge whether items are good for the game. I don't think portables, slayer cards, proteans, dwarven tools really should exist in the first place. Its a mistake to make them craftable with invention.

proper nimbus
#

This makes it sound like if data is roughly as expected, things could roll out pretty quickly

#

"this may be all we need to know"

final wolf
feral ingot
#

It would likely still take a few months after the experiments as I'm sure they would give some kind of time window for people to use up their remaining bought keys

#

Also, we know for sure that the winter DXP will need to have things be allowed, so at least until after the winter DXP

#

(Because they already promised this for the winter DXP)

#

Or was it the fall DXP? I cannot remember

#

Whichever one happens after the August DXP

#

I'm not sure if Jagex is still considering August to be the "Fall one"

proper nimbus
compact rivet
#

Automated grain mill

#

Pie baker machine from invention

#

Food storage, accessible from bank

#

Augmented iron pots and pans

proper nimbus
#

Sounds sick

compact rivet
#

Cacao bean patch and chocolate factory machine

#

Brewing vat, and wine storage for aging

#

Proper beer barrel storage cellar

#

Cheese vault

#

Culinaromantic summoning portal to a plane of alcoholic spirits to hunt

spiral ember
proper nimbus
#

makes sense. 1 experiment per month, with cosmetic free worlds as bonus

#

Aligns with what was initially stated about 3 months

quick imp
warped kite
#

I have no way of reading through everything that's been said (so I'm sorry if this is just another comment on the pile), but I popped in to say there's probably a short term novelty for cosmetic-free worlds, but I can't see it being long-term enjoyable. It would mostly be for people who want more immersion, or more likely for people who want to show off their expensive items. Eventually, I think it may end up as just a bunch of people standing in the GE with the same late-game equipment.
If possible, I think a nice solution would be to allow cosmetic toggles as a setting. Either you see people's overrides or you choose to shut them all off.

proper nimbus
#

For anyone thinking "they're just bullshitting about this entire process and have no intent to see it through"

#

If it wasn't already obvious how bad a move that would be

feral ingot
#

I'm sure they only decided to do these experiments after a long and in-depth discussion with the teams. They didn't just wake up one day and say "Let's try turning off TH for giggles, and then turn it back on with no changes!"

It is going to permanently change in some way, shape, or form. We just don't know what that will look like until after experiments have concluded

proper nimbus
#

Yeah precisely

idle cypress
#

maybe if we took a knife and cut ambassador, use it to make portables frog

proper nimbus
#

https://runescape.wiki/w/Luminite_injector

RuneScape Wiki
Luminite injector

Luminite injectors are injections of luminite, which when activated, apply a buff to the Artisans' Workshop on the world, affecting all players inside, including Ironman Mode players. While under the effects, each hammer swing adds an additional base progress to their Smithing product, so at full heat there will be an additional two progress per...

idle cypress
#

I didn't really use portable forge a lot

#

so can't say

hallow spruce
cunning pond
proper nimbus
#

Personally I think its a bit boring if a single tile is the spot where I do a third of my skills

#

I'd rather have 1 skill = 1 hub

cunning pond
#

Not if they reduce current xp rates and also make it not dxp eligible

proper nimbus
#

I just fundamentally dislike the portable place anywhere nature of them

light helm
#

If you put them in in the style of luminite injectors people still flock to the "same" location, it's just a different location per skill

#

which isn't really all that different in the grand scheme of things

proper nimbus
#

I don't want 12 skills or whatever in fort bank

light helm
#

sure, but instead it's just 1 skill in each primary skilling location for it and then the other 4 with no real area to do it still in fort

#

You go from 1 large clump to 4 different large clumps - and tbf, some stuff is already spread around the fort a bit (Admittedly idk how portables compare to the default skilling stations)

violet aspen
cunning pond
hardy ridge
misty kernel
#

Did anyone ever figure out if Jagex thinks that August is considered Autumn DXP?

long star
#

its really not that big of a deal

#

and ultimately its not something to bring up like they just introduced heropass 2.0.

cunning pond
long star
cunning pond
#

Ohhhh. Man my reading comprehension blows

willow harbor
#

can some1 explain this update to me in dummy language, basically no T H for 3 month

#

as ane xperiment for wat

#

I NEED MY SPINS

cunning pond
#

no. its no TH for a week. you will stilll accumulate keys on login

#

just cant use until experiment is over

cunning pond
willow harbor
#

Squealing my FOrtune since Feb 2012

proper nimbus
#

Its outright stated its the august DXP in the video, but they've also clarified yes its the august one

idle cypress
#

For anyone wondering what could be in the cosmetic mega drop, I listed hopefully all past TH cosmetics in media channel

thorny echo
#

(The link for it)

#

In case it gets buried.

long star
misty kernel
abstract wedge
#

I think they may be confusing Spring, Summer, Autumn Winter, with Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4.

long star
#

tbh this seems almost witch hunty. def could have just dm'd

quick imp
long star
quick imp
#

The goal was for his answer to be available to people interested in the cosmetic topic, but thats only possible if he answer anyway aha

unreal mist
#

I wonder if the physical items that were previously available will be included in the large selection of cosmetic overrides - such as the shoulder capes from yak track?

The post explicitly says overrides, but here's to hoping haha

willow harbor
#

i know there is temporary testing upcome but what is going to be the 'permanent' update basically no T H?

light helm
#

Unknown, that presumably won't be decided until after all the experiments are done at the earliest

quaint cape
wicked cipher
#

I'm not sure how much relevant data the experiments will produce

there's th disabled for a week, but all the daily "earned" keys (for which we all already paid by getting regular or premium membership, besides the keys gained by completing the daily challenges) will not be lost but only hidden, and shall be usable after the experiment ends - so for me instead of using 6 keys a day, it'll be using no keys for a week, and then seeing 48 available keys on the very next day after the event, and using them

then there's August dxp without proteans and dummies - so we just save them for November dxp and train differently this time; this experiment might show what people do when proteans/dummies aren't available during dxp, but it won't show which training methods for popular dummy-skills (like agility) or protean-skills (like hunter or rune crafting) might be a good alternative - people who already have stocked up on agility dummies or protean traps simply won't train agility or hunter this dxp at all, hold on to their proteans and dummies and use them in November, and just train different skills in August

#

mtx needs a change, I think many people agree on that

personally I like the idea of only stars and no lamps available from th and oddment store, but please don't touch the quest and achievement lamps, penguin lamps or Meg's lamps which are obtained through regular gameplay

also there may not really be a need to remove th completely, some sort of slot machine can be fun for some people and also jagex is a company and needs to make money to pay their employees, just maybe shift the focus of th more towards cosmetic, like maybe a 30% chance for something that helps with xp (stars, unstable proteans, dummies, silverhawk feathers), 10% chance for other items that help in game (day/week/month reset tokens, archaeology artefact duplicators, spirit of battle to reset slayer masks, wicked hood teleport tokens, magic notepaper), and 60% chance for cosmetic rewards (or currency to spend in Solomon's store like extra loyalty points or runecoins)

#

.
speaking of the oddments store, that could also do with an overhaul
after being unchanged for years with the ever-same stock, it then shifted towards a cycling stock going through a reduced set of cosmetics - so it's actually worse than it was, if you want something specific, you now need to set an alarm in your calendar for a certain week when it will be available, but there's still nothing new, ever, and some useful stock like the fire/water lycan legendary pets were completely removed as well as fun stock like the balloon rest animation

long star
#

its healthier to provide a non gambling iteration of mtx than keep something thats known to be hurting the game.

#

and most would argue no mtx at all

wicked cipher
#

so make a key shop instead of spinning a slot machine? like, you still earn daily keys but choose what you buy with them?

long star
#

Id rather just bundles for irl instead of key anything. The goal is to get rid of the stigma not kinda get rid of it.

urban surge
#

Should have a jagex store with actual skill-capes and such for their merch income. Keychains are cool and all but id buy an official Jagex Rs3 EZK or something, start that real life EoF collection

wicked cipher
long star
#

because th mtx removal is the goal. what you are talking about undermines it to a larger degree. "btw we removed th but youll still use keys" thats really the message of support that will be seen.

wicked cipher
#

well then something else, doesn't have to be keys
give me 3 daily bxp stars instead

light helm
#

That's lowkey what daily challenges already are

wicked cipher
#

daily challenges give xp in whichever skill they're set to
but stars can be put on any skill

#

or dwarven toolboxes are nice too

proper nimbus
#

you can reroll daily challenges

wicked cipher
#

you can set then to 3x same skill too which is what I currently have

short ridge
#

Bit late to the conversation but I’ve got some ideas. Not sure if you already have plans around this or something like this has already been suggested.

  1. The cosmetics bundle should be purchased using bonds or another currency that means that you can get it through mtx or gameplay.
  2. If proteans, dummies and such are to be removed, give us a chance to trade them in for something else. Lots of people have large collections of them that they haven’t had the time to use and if the plan is to reduce the amount of xp coming into the game from them, then it would make sense to be able to trade them for coins or something
    Or we could combine the two ideas and trade proteans for bonds which will be spent on the cosmetic bundle
toxic violet
#

For 2, theres nothing stopping you from using them. Onky during thr next dxp but they akready said there will be atleast 1 dxp to use them in the future

#

Trading them for coins would be bad and just put unnecessary coins into the game

hallow spruce
#

So, what will happen with unstable proteans during the next dxp, given those don't even work with the boosted xp?

#

Same could probably be asked about cinder cores. As cinder cores are based on bxp consumption, which is not boosted by dxp to my knowledge (base xp is consumed as bxp, not the boosted xp due dxp), those are technically also unaffected.

odd oyster
toxic violet
short ridge
hot ocean
sleek vine
proper nimbus
#

so you'd have to use it before said date

#

Why else would they talk about "sufficient notice to use anything you have stored up"

long star
long star
proper nimbus
#

"no new will enter the game" wouldn't need a "suffient notice to use anything you have stored up"

long star
proper nimbus
# long star its saying that it exludes the items

A final approach to monetisation of the game that excludes these items. As in, they're not going to be part of moving forward

In such a scenario, they'd give you sufficient notice to use those you already have.

long star
#

excludes these items as in they arent including it

#

to ex clude

#

not remove

#

words mean things

proper nimbus
#

Yeah it does

#

Just that you're thinking about the wrong exclusion

long star
#

I am not

#

final approach (th)

#

exclude the items (produce of th)

#

tldr they arent talking about removing items from the game

proper nimbus
#

The exclusion here is from the game as a whole

#

Please explain what the notice to use up stored items would otherwise mean

#

What would be the notice in your scenario

#

Why would it apply to stored items

long star
#

it can also mean to use it while TH runs. it doesnt necessarily mean to remove it from the game

proper nimbus
#

why would that be a notice,

long star
#

unfortunately we are taking stock on a topic that is hypothetical and isnt planned.

proper nimbus
#

isnt planned

Again, the only way the sentence makes sense if its a possible scenario

long star
#

so like. unless it directly says they are removing the items. it is not

proper nimbus
#

yeah. We're going to have experiments and we don't know what end scenario is

#

But this is absolutely them stating if they move forward with a proposal that exclude these items for the game, you will be given enough notice to use up the items you have

long star
#

I dont agree

#

and we should probably move on. revolving convo now

proper nimbus
#

Here is Hooli reiterating it in plain text that its up for discussion of removing them and if so, players would be given notice to use them up

long star
#

do you like to just cause problems at requests of moving on?

#

do I need ot @eager robin

eager robin
#

Sup gamers

violet aspen
#

I’m confused about what issue is here

#

Seemed like civil discourse to me

eager robin
#

same tbh I don't see anything untowards

#

it's fine for folks to have different points of view as long as you are civil with each other and not being intolerant

proper nimbus
#

I corrected someone above that said it has never been on the table that there might be a removal of proteans/dummies

long star
#

no, you didnt correct me. I disagreed with how its said and what it means

proper nimbus
#

Clearly Jagex floated it as an idea, in particular that Hooli comment makes it clear (if we remove them then you'll be notified and given time to use it up)

#

Its not you I corrected

#

its chrono

violet aspen
#

Seems like it’s possible, too soon to say, for sure

long star
#

I explicitly asked for us to cut it to stop it and you felt the need to spit in my face by continuing

proper nimbus
#

Chrono said "proteans and dummies aren't getting "removed", this has never been on the table"

eager robin
#

ok lets not cause an argument where there isn't one

#

take a breath Kobra please

proper nimbus
#

I mean I'm pretty calm

#

its on the table. Whether it will happen is a different thing that we don't know.

eager robin
#

all good then there's no big issue here

proper nimbus
#

But I don't want there to misinfo that its completely off the table never happening

#

They've stated its a possibility.

#

Whether its happening in the end, we don't know yet

eager robin
#

it's not a crime

#

yeah we don't know that doesn't mean that it's not a possibility though

violet aspen
#

Either way, seems like it’s not an issue enough to me. It’s stated as a possibility and that’s about it, currently

proper nimbus
#

Just another picture to show yeah, they're entertaining full removal for proteans. We can't say no its off the table and not being considered at all.

eager robin
#

oke lets move from this

long star
#

🙏

odd oyster
# proper nimbus

this is in relation to them working with double xp, not them getting deleted from the game entirely for whatever reason

proper nimbus
light helm
#

That comment is solely in relation to DXP tbf.
"If we're going to entirely disable them, we'll make sure there's another DXP you can use them in first"

hoary topaz
#

There is no gaurantee of anything, they absolutely could be completely removed if it seems like that is what is best for the game, but we won't know until these experiments. and if so, thats what they are saying in those disclaimers, there will be ample time to use up said items before their removal

proper nimbus
#

Yeah precisely

hot ocean
# proper nimbus Yeah precisely

I agree with you, i dont understand how people are unable to grasp what's being said.

They will definitely be looking at the data to see if the items should be removed, I think they should personally. Anything that gives straight up xp - apart from quest reward lamps, arc lamps w/chimes, penguin points, etc. - should be removed from the game.

Change the rest over to bonus xp, will be much better for the game.

light helm
#

Language being used is deliberately open ended - they could do any number of things which would qualify "Respecting what you own". Trying to guess what any actual final implementation would end up being is a waste of time tbh

hot ocean
#

Basically anything that was mtx based and not quest or mechanic based.

hot ocean
proper nimbus
light helm
#

Yeah but trying to read into it as "It's going to be this" is a waste of time.
Realistically there's like 3-4 scenarios that could happen
A) They just remove purchase and leave anything already in-game to be used up as and when (But disabled during DXP)
B) They give a deadline for everything to be used up then delete/convert into oddments
C) They just remove everything
D) Star Sprites.

proper nimbus
#

Oh definitely not a surefire thing

hot ocean
proper nimbus
#

The only reason the topic came up in the first place was because someone stated that it would for sure not happen and that it wasn't on the table at all

#

And no its clearly on the table of outright removing proteans. Just unknown if that will be the final outcome.

light helm
#

"Outright removing" = deleting from the game

hot ocean
#

Gotta wait for the results

light helm
#

Not allowing a window to use them in

hot ocean
#

I wouldnt say thats what that means

proper nimbus
#

I mean, if you give a window to use them, what do you think the outcome is for what remains after that window is over

hot ocean
#

^this

long star
hot ocean
long star
#

😂

hot ocean
#

🤭

eager robin
#

Let's just agree that we can all see things from slightly different perspectives snd not point the finger at each other

hot ocean
#

Exactly, everyone's perspective is different 😊

eager robin
#

Aye

#

Great to see people thinking about things though 😄

kindred raptor
#

wonder what jagex plans to do when people inevitably whinge about DXP not allowing the use of proteans, pulse cores, and portable skilling stations

proper nimbus
#

Nothing probably. I mean the experiment is to try to figure out how their absence impacts the game.

If portables are super loved, but people don't care much about proteans or pulse cores, you'd maybe see portables get preserved in some shape or form (like portable forge became luminite injector), while things people don't really mention much gets much more ready for the chopping block

kindred raptor
#

people gonna have a stroke training like an ironman and i'm here for it

toxic violet
#

No portables will be a pain. But i'll just train stuff like construction that doesn't use portable

inner vapor
#

Instead of using them

inner vapor
toxic violet
#

Convert it to whatever. Just not coins

#

It shouldn't turn into anything with a gp value

feral ingot
#

Would there be a point to having oddments if TH disappears? I imagine the oddment shop would disappear as well

#

In the theoretical situation that they axe TH, that is

violet aspen
light helm
#

Given I have 216k of them and I'm an iron... definitely obtainable without TH lel

proper nimbus
#

almost every consumable on oddment shop I could see going away

#

Cosmetics who knows. Could always move cosmetics to some other source.

#

Travelling Merchant get the rotating cosmetics or something. Or to fitting gameplay sources.

rapid rose
#

Maybe oddment cosmetics stay but I could see a consolidation into the Marketplace happening

inner vapor
#

When I spent money it wasn’t an option that this would happen

#

Can give gp at a useful rate

#

I kept them so I could trade them in for something one day

violet aspen
long star
hardy ridge
#

Better to not convert them at all

feral ingot
#

Convert them to Thaler instead?

#

And then, future event coffers can just drop Thaler instead of oddments

#

And move the current oddments marketplace cosmetic items (such as Fang of Mohegan, George the Gurth, etc) to the Stanley Limelight Shop

odd oyster
violet aspen
hot ocean
hardy ridge
#

Loyalty points, or turn loyalty points into oddments and

#

Make a unified currency lll

hot ocean
hardy ridge
hot ocean
# hardy ridge So oddments and loyalty points into runecoins as the common currency?

Oddments yes, loyalty points no, and then make runecoins the central currency for all cosmetics they want to release as part of a new "MTX" thing.

Like how they released the (imo awful looking, but a good direction) black versions of the dungeoneering armours.

Make good cosmetics and people will buy them with runecoins from irl purchases, or use bonds in game to get runecoins and buy them.

hardy ridge
#

Like with the rare item tokens

#

Or the daily challenge skips

hot ocean
#

At the end of the day they dont want to make it so that people can use it as a full method to get the items for "free", while it would be nice they still have to think of the moneymaking side of things, especially if we want to see treasure hunter removed.

hardy ridge
#

That’s pretty terrible lol

#

Not sure what a good rate is

hot ocean
#

Still better than nothing or keeping treasure hunter.

#

Some people have tens or hundreds of thousands of oddments, irons especially.

hardy ridge
#

How many runecoins per bond?

hot ocean
#

I believe its 194 or around that.

hardy ridge
#

Ok 200 rc per bond, 15 keys/bond, 400 odds a key

#

6000 odds 15 keys

#

200:6000 rc:odds? lol

#

30:1

hot ocean
#

400 odds a key? No way, white items only give like 45

hardy ridge
#

Oddments to rc

hardy ridge
hot ocean
#

Ohh I get ya

#

I mean it could be doable

hardy ridge
#

Just ballparking lol

hot ocean
#

That's for buying keys though, it would be better to get the stats of average opens per key, see what the most common type of colour pulled and use that oddments ratio for conversion and use that as a base, imo.

hardy ridge
#

It depends on event

#

Which is why I used the other way

hot ocean
#

Yeah true, take like a 5 or 10 year period and use that as a basis for the average.

hardy ridge
#

Was even better before multiplier nerf

#

Used to be net positive keys and oddments on the right event

hot ocean
#

Yeah thats why i could see them using a 10 year period, then taking the stats of average colour opened per key and making that colours converted amount as the figure.

#

I'd guess it would probably be yellow or orange.

cunning pond
feral ingot
#

I still think it's better to convert to Thaler instead, and stick things in the Limelight shop.

Given that plenty of Ironmen have tons of oddments, it's clear that oddments (for the longest time) were things that could be easily gained from in-game events and activities. Just like Thaler. Oddments weren't just things you SOLELY got from paying irl money for TH shenanigans.

Besides, this would also open up the possibility of more things getting added to the Limelight shop. Plus, you could easily change the two TH keys you get from quests into set amounts of Thaler instead. That way, you aren't getting a quest reward taken away without replacement. I can't imagine they would be willing to replace the quest keys with Runecoins; I can totally see them replacing them with Thaler, though.

light helm
#

Personally I don't see an issue with the TH keys from quests if that was the one and only source of them - maybe tone down the top end rewards from them, but otherwise

#

tho that is an interesting point, I wonder if quest rewards will be rejigged/boosted to compensate for the keys no longer being there

feral ingot
# light helm Personally I don't see an issue with the TH keys from quests if that was the one...

No, because that would mean people would only ever have a set amount they could get. If you kept cosmetics in the oddments shop, that would lead to complaints because people like to collect ALL the things, and having limited amount of keys might "lock them out" of some of them.

Even with useful consumables, like dragon trinkets or magic notepaper or portables, people will complain they can only ever get so many of these because there's a finite amount of keys. And I'm not even touching upon the opportunity to get slayer masks

Unless you envision a TH where you only can get stars and cinder cores, so it's more like just a bonus exp reward to congratulate you for completing a quest, THEN I could see it being more accepted

light helm
#

Yeah I was thinking of TH keys in terms of only the consumable rewards from them, not cosmetics

#

dragon trinkets are obtainable through the Maw as well, notepaper via invention etc.
Portables currently would be the only one of those that would be finite

feral ingot
#

I must still respectfully disagree on this; I still think it's a bad idea. If they are to remove TH, I think it would be better to remove it wholesale and just re-arrange the items it contained elsewhere

light helm
#

That's what I meant regarding toning down the top end.
Stuff like Masks which are a one time purchase 100% shouldn't be included in the pool, but things which you can already get through regular gameplay would be okay.

proper nimbus
#

Honestly I think most of the consumables aren't great anyways

#

They only exist because they needed something to be sold for real money that was attractive

violet aspen
light helm
#

Only for the ones that aren't obtainable in-game already, and those wouldn't make sense to be in the pool (argument more to be made is that they should be adjusted to be gained in-game in some fashion)
But... otherwise irons currently don't receive them at all anyway so -shrug-

hot ocean
#

Making it so that oddments can become thaler would be a good shout, and id be fully on board with this, but the thaler shop needs to remain minigame reward (and stuff like that) focused.

Using runecoins for all future cosmetic "mtx style" stuff going forward would probably be the best, imo

feral ingot
inner vapor
feral ingot
#

Or have they been there for a while and I just didn't realize it?

inner vapor
inner vapor
#

Jagex already scammed me and many other players when removing wishing well seeds giving us 1gp, lots paid above tnat

#

And wtf is 1gp going to achieve it cost money and it was never said this would occur

long star
#

Youll be hard pressed to find people with 1 million oddments. Even 500k

inner vapor
#

Nah I won’t

#

Do you even play the game

#

People been stacking, and promotions have been op for years

#

The statistics they use are kinda bad too

violet aspen
inner vapor
#

But good shout

#

And clues would be buyable

violet aspen
inner vapor
#

lol

#

You would piss off lots of people who actually play or played the game

violet aspen
#

Because at the end of the day, you’ll receive much more Thaler through minigames than the rate of oddments in that case

inner vapor
#

Ie the majority of castle wars community

#

But do it

#

Most mini games are dead you will just boost that

violet aspen
#

Again, the rates would be lower.

inner vapor
#

Then it’s irrelevant content

violet aspen
#

How so?

#

You earn oddments passively

#

Limited time seasonal events still accomplish the goal of socialization

#

And they only exist a few times a year

inner vapor
#

They have their own stores and rewards

#

Completely different oddments

violet aspen
#

I’m referring to me saying I’m okay with them giving Thaler

inner vapor
#

And you don’t play the game

violet aspen
#

Been playing for 20 years

inner vapor
#

If that was the case no one is going to castle wars

#

Cuz they can afk in the hole for Thaler

violet aspen
#

Perhaps, don’t be passive aggressive.

inner vapor
#

Mini games are dead already

violet aspen
#

Nobody said everything

inner vapor
#

Think of the wider impact

#

These things already exist by a thread

violet aspen
#

You seem to think you can’t do two things at once

hot ocean
inner vapor
#

Hmm trim comp by afking seasonal events

#

Crazy no one will do mini games

violet aspen
#

I’m a massive advocate for minigame revival

inner vapor
#

They tried with Thaler

#

It worked short term

#

Player base currently isn’t large enough

violet aspen
#

Okay, you’re not here to talk, you’re here to make rebuttals. Have a good one.

hot ocean
violet aspen
inner vapor
#

Other than castle wars it’s empty

hot ocean
#

That's because castle wars is the only fun minigame

inner vapor
#

Also realistically they need to keep oddments in the current form

hot ocean
#

Why

inner vapor
inner vapor
#

Make a token exchange - oddments mtx all feed Intri this

light helm
hardy ridge
inner vapor
#

This will give them a value

#

In which you can trade in mtx for other mtx items

hot ocean
#

Naa that has been in the game for years, its a long grind but kinda fun

light helm
inner vapor
#

So I have a rainbow halo I trade it in for 25 tokens now I can unlock a walk for 5000 token oddments

light helm
#

Auras need to be removed from LP system 🦐

inner vapor
#

It would trade in stuff

#

Actually boost the economy somewhat

violet aspen
#

Then your issue isn’t with oddment to Thaler conversion, your issue is with the rate we currently receive Thaler

inner vapor
#

Some mtx have been over farmed

#

You guys don’t realise

light helm
#

LP should be linked solely to vanity cosmetics rather than anything with in-game power, but that's different to the MTX topic lel

violet aspen
hot ocean
inner vapor
#

Imagine owning for example 10m rainbow halo tokens

#

You need a exchange

hardy ridge
#

1 gp nis rainbow wings was hilarious lol

inner vapor
#

These people don’t get it

#

They don’t play the game

#

Nor understand the quantities involved

hot ocean
#

Who

inner vapor
#

If we had a bigger player base maybe stuff would be different

violet aspen
#

The classic “No, I’m right and everyone else is wrong!”

light helm
#

I mean, that's kind of entirely on you for hoarding that many of them understanding that the value of them could massively fluctuate

inner vapor
#

Osrs is booming it’s crazy

light helm
#

Because realistically that many tokens would never be sold anyway

inner vapor
#

They milked players, initially people paid for them( then they pump them out

hot ocean
inner vapor
#

My friend owned many

light helm
#

If that many exist they're functionally worthless

#

So no conversion seems fine

inner vapor
#

Yes

hot ocean
#

Okay, let's see them

inner vapor
#

More tokens than players exist

#

They milked us really bad

#

And now the repercussions are failing mtx sales

#

And failing player base

#

Worst of both

hot ocean
inner vapor
#

My guy, I can see you are not experienced

#

Do some research

violet aspen
#

Right, unless the friend has evidently showcased it

hot ocean
inner vapor
violet aspen
#

Burden of proof falls on you.

hot ocean
#

Neither are you by the looks of it

violet aspen
#

That’s how burden of proof works.

inner vapor
#

Am I here to educate the hopeless

hot ocean
violet aspen
#

We were doing just fine, before.

inner vapor
#

Join any server that specialises in items tokens etc

rapid rose
#

Sponge had a cooking game jam a while back where he designed a refresh to cooking with the idea that meals and brews would provide aura-like effects. This would provide a fresh niche for more cooking items, add more reasons to interact with cooking, and add a little complexity to the skill.

Hope he gets around to it

inner vapor
#

And you will see the severity of scale

violet aspen
inner vapor
#

There’s players in this game who I have seen with stacks of tokens

hot ocean
light helm
#

I'm looking forward to see what happens to 110 cooking tbh

violet aspen
#

^

light helm
#

Because there's so many fundamental issues with food that it's a good place it try and slap things in that fix it

inner vapor
#

Not my place to dox someone’s collection

light helm
#

Altho most 110s don't really touch on the lower end stuff so it's probably less likely

rapid rose
#

fishing and cooking could do with a little refreshing with 110s

inner vapor
#

This stuff causes panic lol

hot ocean
violet aspen
#

^

inner vapor
#

Jagex statistics are lies

violet aspen
#

Oh, so we’re just here in bad faith, then

hot ocean
inner vapor
#

I know a guy who owned 5000 accounts and would log in for every mtx event

hot ocean
#

Sure

inner vapor
#

He’s included in the static is

violet aspen
#

Ok

inner vapor
#

There’s lots of variables and false data

hot ocean
#

I guess his dad is also jagex?

light helm
#

And what makes it so the data you're claiming to have is reliable and not false?

violet aspen
hot ocean
light helm
#

Why should we distrust stats from A just because B says A's stats are wrong?

inner vapor
violet aspen
#

Can’t provide the data

inner vapor
#

There’s lots of data they include doesn’t feel accurate representation

hot ocean
inner vapor
#

:/

violet aspen
#

Annnnd nothing

hot ocean
#

Lol

inner vapor
#

You guys are needing proof to something you can look at yourself and think about

violet aspen
hot ocean
#

You made the claim, provide proof

violet aspen
#

But that’s irrelevant, my bad

inner vapor
#

Firstly, look at the recent data they put out and excuses - for bosses and mtx lots of it isnt accurate across the player bases

#

In relation to tokens again you can research this yourself

violet aspen
#

Compared to what?

hot ocean
#

And you know it isn't accurate because....

inner vapor
#

Look at how many players in game have 100k elegant sandles or 5m rainbow amulets

#

Which far exceed the player base

violet aspen
#

According to?

inner vapor
#

Jagex would then still charge people for these mtx promos

hot ocean
#

Okay, and how do you know these figures

inner vapor
violet aspen
#

Source?

inner vapor
#

I’ve seen stacks

hot ocean
#

Okay so one or 2 people makes up the playerbase yeah?

inner vapor
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Doesn’t make sense

inner vapor
#

And it wouldn’t just be 1-2

hot ocean
#

Sure they do

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Only bothers have that many

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Botters

inner vapor
#

No

feral ingot
#

I come back and there are so many messages. 😱 I apologize if someone responded to me and I didn't see it

inner vapor
#

Lots of merchers do that Becsuse ge limits

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Also it seems lots of items have been pumping before they are officially released in terms of updates

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You see spikes in volume and price before the player base knows also odd

hot ocean
light helm
#

Spikes in volume and price according to who?

inner vapor
light helm
#

Merchers who have an inherent interest in saying that stuff is more expensive than it is?

inner vapor
light helm
#

So yes.

violet aspen
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Takes about 15 minutes to get into the game from character creation. 5000 accounts, 1250 hours to do that.

hot ocean
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But you dont know what they are

light helm
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People who have a vested interest in people beliving prices are higher than they actually are

inner vapor
violet aspen
#

Please, teach me the secret to doing tutorial island in 20 seconds

inner vapor
#

There is no tutorial island