#Looking For Feedback - Grand Exchange Small Improvements

94 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

balmy cairn
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Hi Everyone

Mod Sukotto, server-side engine developer here.

As it stands, every so often, developers in the engine team get a personal development day, where we can work on personal projects
This can be similar to game jams in format, but a lot shorter.
The next one of these is tomorrow!

I've come up with some ideas around improvements to the grand exchange, and I am looking to get opinions from players on them.
These ideas are based on pain points I experience myself on day-to-day usage of the grand exchange!

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Ideas

Idea 1: Quick Shortcuts for In-Progress Offers

This would add a couple of shortcuts to the right-click menu of an active offer.
These would mirror the percentage buttons on the edit offer screen but with fewer clicks required.

Idea 2: Customisable Percentage

This would allow different +/- percentages to be used instead of the current -20%, -5%, +5% and +20% buttons that are currently offered.

There are two potential approaches to this:

Idea 2 Approach A: Editable via Settings

Introduce a settings dialog on the G.E., or introduce a new area of the game settings dialog, where you can edit the percentages that are displayed.

Idea 2 Approach B: Customisable +X% Button

Either replacing the -20% button, or next to it (it depends on what I can get away with in terms of interface space), would be a -X% button. You would be able to right-click this button to change the value of X. The same would obviously apply to +X% too.
This is how OldSchool RuneScape's grand exchange currently works (with their X% button where RuneScape's 20% button is)

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Idea 3: An Instant Sell Button

Ever had a bunch of items you just want to get rid of for the best price you can, but you don't care what the price is? That would be what this button is for.

Instead of setting a manual price, you would instead click this button, and have your item matched against the highest available active buy offer.
This matching would exclude buy offers that are currently paused due to hitting the buy limit, just like normal offers do, so the price you get might not the the absolute highest offer available, but it would be the highest offer usable at that time.

There are two approaches to this:

Idea 3 Approach A: Just Sell It

Upon clicking the button your item would almost immediately be sold. You wouldn't receive any feedback on the price that you might get until it was sold.
There would be a confirmation dialog warning you about the danger of this, but you could toggle it off.
This method would result in the minimum amount of clicks required, but with the caveat that your valuable item could sell for 1gp if you were very unlucky.

Idea 3 Approach B: Intermediate Confirmation

Upon clicking the button, you would get a dialog that would tell you the price the game expects you would be able to instant sell for at that moment.
It is possible that between this dialog displaying and you clicking the confirmation button, that offer may have either already been fulfilled or have hit its buy limit.
As such, once you confirm you are happy with that price, there would be a ~10% leeway for which it could find a similar offer, and if it failed to find such an offer, the sell offer would fail and act like a normal offer does when it is cancelled.

Non Goals

Given I am making changes to the grand exchange, I know there are some other areas of it that players would love to see changes around. Unfortunately, I have had to mark some of these as non-goals:

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Full Transparency on All Open Offers.

I am aware that this is a highly requested feature, and it is something I myself would love to see added to RuneScape.
However I do need to be realistic with what is in the scope of a single developer to work on as a personal project for one day a month.
I also need to take into account that there are areas of the development of such a feature that I would struggle with on my own.
As such, I need to focus on areas I think are in my capabilities to change. I might even be overreaching with some of the ideas I am proposing - it is the first time I will be touching the interface system at all.

A Way of Seeing the History of Completed Offers on an Item

This is also not feasible for the exact same reasons as the above - It would be a much too large piece of work that I do not think I could achieve on my own.

An Instant Buy Button

If I add a sell button, well it would make sense to add the opposite button too, wouldn't it?
However, there are additional complications that a present on the buy side of things that are not present on the sell side of things.

The grand exchange works by removing the item/gp from you before sending any data to the grand exchange central server. There are of course safeguards so that in the case of an error you do not lose the item/gp, but it is done this way so that if it fails catastrophically, item duplication is not possible through the grand exchange.

This begs the question. With instant buy, if you don't know the price that the item is going to buy for, until the point you are actually buying it, how do we remove the correct amount of gp from you first?

I have received a few suggestions on how this could be worked around that are quite feasible, but I think it is best to revisit this at a later date if the Instant Sell Button is successful.

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What I'm looking for from the RuneScape Community?

For each of these ideas, I would like to know if you think it is a good or a bad idea, and your reasoning why if you can.
Weigh each idea independently, as it is not a case of picking the best one - if the community likes all 3, I would look at doing all 3.
In the case of idea 2 and idea 3, I have provided multiple approaches of how to go about the idea. If you like the idea, please say which of these approaches you would prefer, and again, why if you can.

While I appreciate there may be other ideas you will have for other areas of improvement around the grand exchange, I would please request you raise them elsewhere, just so it makes it easier to see feedback for these specific 3 ideas.

Disclaimer

Like any game jam project, it is entirely possible that that work done in personal project time, and therefore this proposal, will never be released in the live game; may take a long time to appear in the game; may stall; or may end up being not possible.

Sign off

Thanks for reading!
I look forward to reading some of the comments regarding these ideas.

Mod Sukotto

mystic cradle
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An instant sell button would go crazy. Nice to meet you Mod Sukotto, thanks for making the game even better. My vote is for the instant sell (and then maybe one day, instant buy)

crisp pike
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Idea 1: Quick Shortcuts for In-Progress Offers
Yes please! As a hoarder, when I do clean my bank I sell buckets of non-important items. The aborting and re-offering can get tedious. It's a niche issue but this would definitely make it better.

In my case I would rather use the "Instant Sell Button" should it be available but nevertheless not having to abort would still be a nice QoL update.

Idea 2: Customisable Percentage
I'd pick Approach B. So we wouldn't have to close the GE window everytime we forget to change the Custom percentage.

Idea 3: An Instant Sell Button
Either approach would cause an - I'd say more harm - as many niche items would just be pumped with offers for 1gp? Being able to change the offer as proposed with Idea 1, makes it atleast a concious decision by the player themselves.

Though, if I had to choose I'd go with option A: Just sell it. Rather 1 big warning: "this could go for 1 gp" than "Expected to sell at [x]" and receive 1gp anyway.

balmy cairn
flat ether
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Instant sell button you say? ABSOLUTELY!
(Im reading it properly now i got that excitement out the way 😂 )

ionic sail
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my only direct feedback would be to add a soft limit of how many insta-sells may occur in a certain timeframe.

due to the GE being one liquidation point while players may potentially suffer a hijack, while a good QOL, it would also accelerate the dump&transfer process pre-locking/recovery of said acc.

potentially also limiting it to items under a certain GE Price as well to prevent abuse of lowball buy offers of more valuable items as well as some with lower quantities of trades occurring.

frosty cosmos
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Sorry, but seriously if it is not broke don't mend it. There is a tendency to overcomplicate things in this game. We dont all have an I.Q. of over 180

fiery lark
frosty cosmos
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fair enough, but it does not need to be over complicated

ornate junco
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what is complicated about the proposed design?

mossy hill
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Hi , is it possible to add timers to our buys/sells?
Not sure if that is included in your "Full Transparency" title

mortal prawn
balmy cairn
mossy hill
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Thank you for considering ^^

hollow wharf
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I think idea 2b is probably the best way forward for customisable +x%, to me it's a case of parity, it working the same as OSRS would be great, just for it being much easier to then switch between two games and not mess up due to muscle memory

oblique bay
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No one has thoughts on 3a vs. 3b? I'm sure Sukotto would love thoughts on this

3a: instasell immediately, toggleable confirmation button
3b: dialogue pop-up of the approximate instasell price before selling

crisp pike
oblique bay
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oops, sorry missed your thought there Defqon ^^

worthy star
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3a; good as long as the confirmation is on by default, but most warnings are. if somebody goofs up after that, that's on them, but knowing what something might sell for before it sells (so we get more live pricing that doesn't rely on third parties or current ge price that may be incorrect) is something i value so absolutely immensely that my vote is for 3b nodders

hollow wharf
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I think 3b is better purely to avoid those 1-in-a-thousand situations where the games timing is really really against you, although I'm sure as soon as I had a chance to play with 3a I'd pick that anyday cause I'm lazy 😂

violet parcel
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Instant sell is something I have wanted for years!

slate dust
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@balmy cairn I'd really like a second confirmation button when placing a buy or sell. Many people have screwed up and myself included. Lost a couple bil.

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@balmy cairn @west mantle does Jagex have plans to make the ge eventually all open and transparent on offers? As a mercher I'd like to know thank you.

chrome terrace
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I think having ge data be available to the public like osrs has with ge-tracker website would be a really really handy thing for rs3 especially with how much manipulation there is and how many items there are that are way off from their GE value

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it's often very hard to find out the up to date prices of items, and having to rely on player reports is less than ideal. for osrs you just google "[item] ge tracker" and see every price the item was traded for recently

rotund halo
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I'm sure it's been said before but a GE limit timer would be amazing.

The ins button with a warning sounds great also.

Thanks for putting time for a small GE work 😄

fiery lark
# balmy cairn ## *Full Transparency on All Open Offers.* I am aware that this is a highly req...

Idea 1: the ability to right click to edit an offer is ideal. The current system of having to cancel and repost the offer is a little annoying.

Idea 2: I think customizable percentages is a good idea. Best way to approach is within the GE menu itself like in OSRS instead of the game settings menu

Idea 3: I like the instant sell option, but the intermediate confirmation should be mandatory. Helps players from making stupid mistakes

I appreciate the clarity from you regarding the non-goals. Is there any plans for an updated in game GE price valuation? So like when you examine an item you’re getting a much more accurate GE price than what we are currently seeing?

azure dock
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Can we have the ability to buy extra Slots( with COINS) ? currently we have 8 i was thinking maybe to double it to 16.

fiery lark
wicked minnow
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+1 for Idea 3A to match other games; the less friction and interface interactions to sell off a large amount of items, the better. Especially with the rollback netcode predictions / slow tickrate on the GE, there'd be less risk of the prices I set jumping back to what they were a split second before clicking the button, or my text entry not being recognized.

ember night
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they all look great but please don't turn the 20% button into an x% button

azure dock
lusty plover
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One thing we need for Grand Exchange is the actual price updates. They are so inconsistent and checking though discord bots run by manipulative discord communities is terrible

snow knoll
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Love the instant sell/buy buttons idea 🟢

oblique bay
spare geode
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I think the game albion online does a good job of a market place. While I think the ideas here are great for convenience sake I feel like the GE needs some kind of overhaul rather than small additions.

My favourite idea out of all of this would be adding the right click option to inventory to sell for the percentages and would work well with the customisable percentage in terms of right click "Sell for x%".

jaunty tendon
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Hiya Sukotto,

Great proposal. My thoughts:

Idea 1) Minimize the number of clicks required, please.

Idea 2) yes. "Flipping utilities" does this in osrs as a plugin. It's very intuitive, and let's players right click the would be 20% button and specify a preset... Then the button acts as that amount unless changed in the future. Look to them for an example of how it's coded?

Idea 3) idea 3 approach b is excellent. However, I'd add that anyone should be able to search for an item and see the highest active buy offer... Otherwise this would incentivize merchants keeping an item around to regularly check the buy offers that are in the GE. I'd expect it to simply open up MORE avenues for market manipulation, not less. ("Oh, that offer we posted about on <price checking site> must've just come off a 4hr cooldown... It's still legit!") - let every player see the active buy offer WITHOUT already owning the item in question.

Happy to discuss ways of implementing idea 3 while minimizing potential for abuse, leveraging my expertise in the field. Hit me up anytime.

mortal temple
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Could you possibly make it so when something sells you don't need to run to a bank to get the money, and have it auto go into currency pouch

gray jewel
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1 is fantastic becuase not having to futz with the edit menu is nice, I don't find 2 very impactful either way unless it allows removal of X% as well, 3 would be VERY helpful for clearing out junk especially with Approach B (don't wanna get diddled TOO hard), thanks for finally looking at the GE. It could probably do with more people looking at it for one of those bigger projects you mentioned too, but this is still nice.

tight flint
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I would personally like an instant sell button where I can set the limit % for providing a warning. i.e. give me a popup if the item I am trying to sell goes for less than X% of the current GE price evaluation, where X can be set in the GE UI or in the settings.

gray jewel
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Let us see current offers and how long they've been sitting and recently completed offers and it's all gucchi.

sly bolt
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My preferences:
Idea 1
Idea 2b
Idea 3b

balmy cairn
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Apologies for my lack of response this afternoon and evening (UK time).
I had hoped to respond to some of the messages this evening, but have had a migraine most of the evening, so will have a read tomorrow morning

gray jewel
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No worries, shit happens. Infinitely more response than we're used to getting in #1019643494429642872 already.

fair zealot
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Re: non-goal #1 (and, for that matter, idea 3 approach B, to a lesser extent): I feel like beyond the question of technical execution, the bigger issue here (and maybe something that needs to be more deeply discussed internally) is the economic implications

deep storm
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All three are great ideas. I like approaches b for both 2 and 3. I think having to go through the games settings complicates the basic idea more. As to 3, I agree with Aleucard who said "(don't wanna get diddled TOO hard)".

vague crater
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I like all the ideas proposed here. But one thing thats beyond needed, in my opinion, and has been stated here as well, is Real-Time GE Prices. It would reduce the need for 3rd parties and stop them from manipulating prices, like we know they are. Hope the migraine passes soon. Thank you.

maiden nova
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Idea 3: An Instant Sell Button
Approach B sounds like the best way to handle it if players can view what their item will sell for in that moment giving players a chance to back out of selling it if they themselves deem it not worth it.

Players being able to see what an item would sell for would benefit players in many ways such as:

  1. Players being able to see what an item really sells for so they are not buying someones "Last items for x amount"

  2. Players no longer or less likely to be trade value scammed by someone attempting to buy their item for trade value now they can check to see if it sells for far more than what that person is offering.

Going back to (1.) giving players the option to check what an item(s) insta sell would be even if they themselves do not own it would stop players from overpaying on items with ridiculously broken trade values by the bots who do this type of scam.

^ If players can view the insta sell of an item without owning it then it might also deter players who RWT through the GE since someone could easily stumble upon their secret item.

teal berry
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Idea 2, I'd take approach B
Idea3, I'd take approach A (but with extra feat.) -- Similar on how osrs has an option to drop item from just clicking it, eneabling this option would allow you to shift+click item from inventory for insta sell.

Also small QOL I'd like Whenever you want to buy an item on the GE that it default to 1 item, instead of 0. 🙏

lunar ether
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Most of these sound fine and just qol stuff. The issue i see is with 3b. If you add an intermediate message that gives an estimated value for what you would receive at that moment but had the ability to back out of the offer it has huge potential for abuse and manipulation. It would for the most part remove the need to actually price check an item. While this may not have a huge impact on some items anything with relatively lower volume and higher price could be easily pumped.

3A is a much cleaner approach to this. You can already insta sell by setting the price at 1 gp. You can just slap the 20% button a bunch of times. You fully expect when you do this you may get a bad price. The idea is sell it for whatever. An insta sell button that just sends it regardless of price (besides a warning) just makes that already possible process streamlined and is fine.

slate dust
hallow tapir
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Idea 1, 2b, 3b, Instant Buy ❤️ my favorites

lament spear
grim walrus
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instasell is nice, but we also need a timestamp and see our limit of things like e/2 bought at timestamp X, to wait "5min untill limit is away

fair zealot
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3A is basically just “put this item in a sell offer for 1 coin”, which seems fine - that’s essentially just “syntactic sugar”/a UI improvement for something that systematically is already possible today. 3B is a different story and has the potential to change the economic functioning of the marketplace which feels like it shouldn’t be done lightly but rather considered and researched carefully (along the lines of the death cost+GE tariff overhaul).

lapis fjord
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Instasell would be very nice

fair zealot
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Seems to me like 3A would fit in to the theme of “making order management and placement more streamlined”

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3B, though, putting the economic aspect aside, seems that it would be better as just another button on the sell screen

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Given that the proposed flow is to have it query the server and return the expected price, then put that in a dialogue, it seems like it would be smoother for the flow to just be the normal “click the item to open a sell offer”, and then alongside the buttons for guide price and percentage changes, just have a button that queries the server for the current instasell price and sets the offer price to that (or perhaps defaulting to 10% less if you want to make it as few clicks as possible + more likely execution )

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That should also simplify the implementation, as while the GE clearinghouse would still need to have a function/API call added to find and return the current best offer, that would be a read-only operation and you wouldn’t have to mess with the core order execution flow to add an entirely new type (fill-up-to-10%-or-kill) of order

woven goblet
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Currently, it costs money to find out what the highest buy offer is (~ GE tax; since you can ins and buy back for roughly the same price). I like this concept: you want information, you have to pay a (small) fee. With option 3b this completely changes, price checking (buy price) will become free and it will be a matter of how often you can check the GE to keep your offers up-to-date. Maybe a bit extreme, but there could arise price-checking bots which constantly check the price of items.

Furthermore, I don't see the need for an instant sell button if you can already customise the %; set it to -80% and you will sell the item. Having a ins button will maybe save you 1 click.

fair zealot
timid sundial
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My preferences:
Idea 1 (doesn't really make any difference to my gameplay tbh)
Idea 2a
Idea 3b

fair zealot
covert trail
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I think the main issue as a lot of players have already touched upon is the cost of finding out actual pricing for items that are extremely expensive or very low volume. I personally would prefer it if you could dedicate that small amount of time you have each month working on a solution to this. Would be much appreciated

fair zealot
ember night
cunning patrol
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  1. Perfect, saves more time than aborting an offer and then creating a new one

  2. I'd prefer B as someone who has played for a while, but to be useful to new players it would be good to have it pointed out in the GE tutorial if possible. Because if new, a right-click option is going to be less noticeable than another tab on the interface with the configurations.

If B is chosen and the right-click on X% is used, will the customised percentage remain after the offer is completed, or will the button go back to its default percentage for a new offer?

  1. A seems to work the same as offering it for 1gp as you mentioned that, so I think I would prefer option B. It would be great to get even a small insight of what realistic offers are being made by buyers at the top value for the item. Would it be possible to make the ~10% leeway configurable?
pale crest
ebon delta
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1,2b, and 3b. These ideas would be so amazing! Super excited!

idle pilot
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This post is EXACTLY the kind of community interaction I really like seeing from the RuneScape team. Thank you for reaching out and good luck with your project!

(The insta sell button is my favourite idea cuz man clutter happens so fast and junk is junk)

honest prairie
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Full support for options to quickly adjust the price, and for an instant sell option.

I would prefer implementations 2A, and 3A for the best UX on both design patterns.

I have been discussing the potential for further GE improvements in my thread here: #1222860390703304785 message

While many of these ideas are out of scope for a single developer small project, I cannot stress enough how valuable these larger improvements would be, and would support the allocation of additional devs to implement these larger scope improvements.

The game economy would function much more smoothly if more fine grained first-party information was available when making trade offers.

idle pilot
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^ Being an informed buyer is just good financial advice

It might be a game but RS still has a functioning economy

gray jewel
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Not having to rely on certain questionable sources for anything attempting proper pricing would be nice.

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We shouldn't have to do several hours of deep market research just to sell some pixels on a video game.

delicate lake
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I would go with 3A instead of 3B purely so people don't use it as a merch tool doing price checks for free.

fiery lark
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lol can’t wait to see their reaction to their merch tool becoming obsolete

gray jewel
keen magnet
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An instant sell button would be equivalent to setting the ask (sell offer) to 1gp

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Of course if there are no bids (buy offers) at 1gp, it would not instant sell, but there is no need to overcomplicate things

raw inlet
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that 'full send' just sell it button is the greatest idea I've ever heard, I support it.

carmine gust
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3B seems like it caps the minimum value to avoid selling too low, which is better than 3A. maybe an option to customize the minimum value by % of the base value, particularly for favourites

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it'd be nice to get some tweaks to the favourites too, like being able to set them as either buy or sell, as I'm pretty sure they're currently buy only

prisma pier
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In OSRS, there's a best selling price option. I wonder if we can get that for the GE in RS3

lament spear
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that sounds really useful tbh

uncut shadow
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All of these suggested features sound amazing, I would love to see this going forward.

spare creek
empty nebula
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Do a party hat drop !

storm estuary
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please connect selling to bank!!!