I understand it's more of an arcade game and not milsim, which is why its totally fine theres no limits on any classes. Im even fine with anyone being able to carry around C4/suicide C4. The problem imo comes when all it takes is 2-3 rockets to destroy a tank/IFV. There needs to be some kind of HP increase to armored vehicles or a decrease in rocket damage. Its also absurd that HE rockets are even doing any kind of meaningful damage to abrams/t90. Another issue is that people can sometimes just eat 3 IFV rounds to the eyes like nothing happened, they should literally be swiss cheese. The HE round on tanks also has less fragmentation than an HE rocket from RPG or a frag grenade. If HP wont be increased at least make the weapons on armored vehicles do something.
#Vehicle balancing
cedar tulip
cedar tulip
for example ^
not a single tandem rocket there and i die
literally every person running engineer with RPG cause theres no reason not to anymore
assault is useless support is useless and ever since bandage changes medic is borderline useless too
cedar tulip
Another recommendation would be to change it so that all tank crewmen get experience for kills, similar to hell let loose. Theres 0 reason for someone to ever be a spotter and realistically gunner either, if this was changed maybe tanks would actually have 2/3 and 3/3 when currently 90% of the time its just the driver.
noble lion
I think the most simple is increase the tank situational awareness which is having 3rd person view
and let the turret traverse more smoothly like war thunder
tanker can switch between 3rd person or 1st person
but only in 1st person able to aim with reticle
and spotter also only able to have thermal sight in 1st person view
cedar tulip
I think the most simple is increase the tank situational awareness which is havi...
I mean personally I think its a bit cheap and boring to do something like that, and Im no developer but I have a feeling its way easier to change some damage/hp values than to code a 3rd person view
wary goblet
The biggest issue is C4 it takes no skill to kill a vehicle with it, it's damage to vehicles should be nerfed
cedar tulip
well it is pretty hard to actually get up to a vehicle, at least if the driver is competent, but the problem is it only takes 3 c4 to blow up a tank and if they wanted to 127 people could have c4
i rarely die to c4 imo the problem is actually the HE RPG as unlike the tandem it has basically no drop and its so easy to use
noble lion
but the number of c4 that can be carried by each person is really too much
that is true
even with light bagpack i can still carry 5
even in bf cannot carry that much
and bbr has higher player density in single map
what it lead to you already understand
cedar tulip
i agree with that yea but realistically you shouldnt be positioning yourself in tank/ifv to be close enough where people can just bhop over and c4 you
wary goblet
RPGs can be countered by just retreating so in that sense they are fairer, but C4 on the other hand you just need to wait in a bush for the vehicle to get close or even prone your way towards the vehicle, there is also the silent drone method and humvee C4 which you can't hear until it's too late. There is an argument to be made though that the number of RPGs you can carry should be less to make it more balanced.
cedar tulip
RPGs can be countered by just retreating so in that sense they are fairer, but C...
no c4 can be countered by retreating and by good positioning lol
with HE RPG you can literally keep sniping a tank with minimal effort even 500m out
wary goblet
Positioning? Bruh that is why you are getting sniped, you need to be on the move otherwise you are sitting duck
vital surge
Tbf positioning is important, but most people’s idea of “positioning” is prone walking in the middle or nowhere, or in a corner with a LMG. (Which is bad, but most people don’t see that)
Also C4 is getting nerfed for infy (blast radius) oki already said he wasn’t going to touch it for vs vehicle situations currently. Make of that what you will
cedar tulip
Positioning? Bruh that is why you are getting sniped, you need to be on the move...
i am on the move but you basically need to stay on the roads or youll get stuck which is guaranteed death and when youre moving more or less straight its very easy to hit rockets, I didnt play tanks in this game until the last week or two and trust me its very easy to land rockets
wary goblet
Gunvees you definitely need to stay on road to stabilize the MG, but Tanks and APCs can go off-road. Even if you stay on road and you get hit by a RPG, you try to kill it, if you can't just go back.
novel pivot
Yeah tanks and apc have stabilizers
cedar tulip
Gunvees you definitely need to stay on road to stabilize the MG, but Tanks and A...
you really cant on most maps lol, getting stuck on a tree/building or whatever=dead so its safest to stay on road
novel pivot
Weak
wary goblet
edgy dew
obsidian hill
Afaik, you need 5~6 HE or 3~4 C4s, tandem idk (3?), so.. its okay..
in the vid, the last shot was a frag, that's what marked but you probably received tandem before o maybe even some c4;
to use c4 with a vehicle you need to get really close so the problem is not the c4 itself (the amount well.. u can think that's a problem, but people has to destroy some walls before going to your position, before even fight they probably already used 4/5)
Btw, HE and C4 are already too nerfed in damage, "maybe" tank's health is the issue here
vital surge
both I and devildog have said this in suggestions so many times and people just don’t want to admit that. Teammates don’t care about your tanks (repair xp nerfed to the ground so nobody repairs now), only way to supply ammo is to go back to base on most maps, and most people play tank selfishly because of this + redzone being the abusable mess that it is
little scroll
Afaik, you need 5~6 HE or 3~4 C4s, tandem idk (3?), so.. its okay..
in the vid, ...
its easy as shit to get close for c4, and a 10 second timer ain't much. as for tandem, it two shots tanks to the rear, with splash damage doing full damage to the weak point. I think the top of the tank also counts. 1-2 shots to send a tank running, 2-3 shots to kill it.
Respawn means that unless the guy it totally alone, he will be back at 100% is 10 seconds or less.
HE is not nerfed in damage yet, and c4's damage is enough to in a sinlge hit if you time it right, and you can throw them out with no down time, while running at, what did we calculate it to, like 20mph?
the tank hase close to 100k health, I forget the actual total, but I want to say its 80k.
The range and ease of use for c4, as well as the lack of consequences for dying mean a battle where a squad is within 100 meters of a tank will likely mean the tank dies.
wary goblet
Playing perfectly against a decent squad of enginners, the best outcome is that you run back to base on fire.
void wren
Ghost rider
narrow elk
Afaik, you need 5~6 HE or 3~4 C4s, tandem idk (3?), so.. its okay..
in the vid, ...
2 Tandems if you hit one on the motor/ammo rack, but usually good Tank crewmembers doesn't expose the most weak spot when they are fighting
This is a issue for newer crewmembers
Tanks are a glass cannon, and I see this is fine, not gonna lie, Tanks are pretty resistant, but not enough to be unfair to combat as an infantry player, oneshoting a APC is dumb and I agree with that
little scroll
Tanks are a glass cannon, and I see this is fine, not gonna lie, Tanks are prett...
1 shot to send a tank packing because its below 50% health is Fine? and thats not even rear hit, which is 80% hp lost. or 4 c4 to go boom
tank running for its life is just as good as killing the thing in terms of balance
narrow elk
Yeah x4 damage is pretty brutal, tandem deals 22 damage, the sides are x2 damage but the motor is a x4 (changing that to a x3 multiplier can help a lot when you get ambushed)
little scroll
not really. side and top hits are still 3 shots
which means, long as the engy ain't alone, tank be dead
of course splash does full damage to weakpoints
so good engy's dont have a hard time hitting the rear weakpoint
narrow elk
so good engy's dont have a hard time hitting the rear weakpoint
Hitting the rear is rare unless the tank is a sitting duck
little scroll
what part of "splash damage does full damage to weakpoints" don't you get?
narrow elk
Most of the time tandem deals 44 and 22
little scroll
I don't have to hit the tank to get that weakpoint
and even if I miss, I'm hitting the top or side, and nuking 50% of its health anyway
narrow elk
I don't have to hit the tank to get that weakpoint
Tandem splash radius is very, very small
little scroll
not as small as you think
its dropoff for INF is attrocious for good reason
but AV damage has no dropoff
it seems small, but is actually 4-5 meters
which is pretty damn good to drop a shell at its rear corners to hit the rear weakpoint
narrow elk
not as small as you think
Well what is your purpose change to make Tanks more Beginners Friendly but without making them indestructible
?
little scroll
Tune down raw HP damage for HEAT and Tandem
ideally Tandem should just hit for the same raw damage as HEAT, but have multipliers to mimic a "armor pass-through" effect
tuning the HEAT raw damage too would be a good idea
its a lot easier to balance things with multipliers based on target than tandem "I do 20k damage base"
narrow elk
Ok now make a downside to this change
little scroll
the down side is you don't get to two tap tanks anymore
3-4 tandem hits for a tank, and with the same to heat, 3-4 hits to an APC
narrow elk
Maybe hitting a tank in the rear or wheels with tandem stops them completely
little scroll
same percentage damage HEAT becomes a medium vehicle killer, but has a slightly harder time killing tanks, tandem kills tanks but doesn't just nuke medium and light vehicles
that's another thing based on the vehicles
and a whole other conversation
narrow elk
Demanding to an engie to repair the motor/wheel
little scroll
Engy's don't repair
not right now anyway
except those guys that like being helpful
Vehicle system would have to be changed wholly
much bigger change than altering two weapons
narrow elk
Yep, our solutions basically don't get to the point
little scroll
it helps
narrow elk
Take Squad for example
little scroll
repairs need to matter, maybe also have internal repairs a la BF1
weapon changes to the RPGs
patch jobs before vehicle changes that would improve quality of life for vehicles
narrow elk
Take Squad for example
They have a good balance of weak points and the other problem, everyone can use AV options
little scroll
only reason I keep pushing for repair and RPG changes is because Vilaskis has said no vehicle changes this update.
little scroll
They have a good balance of weak points and the other problem, everyone can use ...
AV is also like 1 tandem per life, or 1 HEAT, until you get resupplied. and spawning is slower and usually not within 50 meters of your target
narrow elk
And every team can stack 1 class in the squad
This is why the normal squad needs a overall role limits
Not only recons
Specialized class like Recon or Engineer shouldn't be stack more than 2 per squad
little scroll
also squad is not the best example because their armor does not fucking die
I love spending 8 shots of tandem to the side of a bradley to lower its health by 40%
never mind the tanks. those fights last 20 minutes per if the crews are good
5-10 if one is better than the other
cause their HP is fucking high as hell
narrow elk
Specialized class like Recon or Engineer shouldn't be stack more than 2 per squa...
Maybe Support but that class feel more like a generalist
little scroll
role limits wouldn't do anything but piss people off
maybe as an option for non-official, but not base
narrow elk
Very fast paced gameplay doesn't combine well with vehicle combat without making the fight unfair to the infantry or vehicles
little scroll
that is true yes.
hence the patch jobs
right now tanks are about as effective as a light vehicle in squad
if that, because less ammo, and easier to kill
narrow elk
The reason why Squad Vehicles works is because of their slow paced matches
And the limited resources if we speak of AV options
little scroll
yeah, but when they refuse to die, its not al lthat great
narrow elk
Fuck up, just put a stamina bar, keep the same speed but God, at least make infantry not capable of chasing vehicles for 3 entire minutes
And nerf the ping system for vehicles, it feels like a tracker telling your enemy your position in real time on interface and map
little scroll
yeah that too
a 45 second ping should be as long as it lasts
then again, so many people around, its not hard to reaquire it to ping it again
and really only for ground vehicles, its kinda needed for helos
little scroll
static pings didn't exist for vehicles
narrow elk
Yeah
little scroll
at least not since launch.
launch already had the vehicle get marker for what feels like several minutes
narrow elk
Overall, the "Tank weak" theme is a combination of, RPG balance, ping system, Lack of vehicle utility and weapons, damage drop-off in distance, map design, etc.
little scroll
lets be honest, the majority of the time its because of lack of offensive staying power, and how easy they are to kill
tank battles are slap fights
the lack of information the vehicles have also does not help
narrow elk
tank battles are slap fights
Agree with that, 10 base damage for a AP 102mm round is underwhelming
little scroll
chain fences stopping shells sucks too
narrow elk
chain fences stopping shells sucks too
Ah yea the jitbacs
Hitboxes are inconsistent in vehicles and structures
tardy tulip
Tanks are a glass cannon, and I see this is fine, not gonna lie, Tanks are prett...
- They are not glass cannons, they are just glass.
- They are not at all resiliant, they can't take more than 1 engi shooting at them, everyone can easily kill them with C4 etc.
Before I go deeper into that, show ss of what's your "favourite vehicle" in stat screen is pls
novel pivot
1. They are not glass cannons, they are just glass.
2. They are not at all resil...
If a tank cant take care of at least one engie thats just straight up a skill issue
I can understand not being able to deal with more, but just one?
little scroll
depends on if he hit a weakpoint or not
rear, you are kinda fucked. side less fucked, but should still run. in front is pure skill issue
tardy tulip
I can understand not being able to deal with more, but just one?
You need two things to solo a tank as an engi, without C4 which makes it braindead. Tandem and some hard cover. If you can aim it, which isn't hard, you easily can land 2/3 shots on a tank. While tank not always will be able to run away fast enough due to map.
little scroll
not to mention a smart engy splashes you on a side where he isn't. so when you look, you ain't going to find him unless you track the rocket coming in
tardy tulip
If you can get relativly close, tandem+AV grenade combo. In the rear is insta kill iirc
little scroll
that's if you don't trap the only way out
most drivers have one way to go to get away, and its usually easy to predict since they want to get back to base
tardy tulip
If not in the rear, you probably will be able to follow up with the second shot on most maps, because tanks are very clumsy, and not fast enough to outrun tandem range before you reload. Add to that hard cover, and the guy may very well only see smoke trails and damage indicators
little scroll
favorite tactic is place C4 or AV mines about where the tank is going hit it and watch it run into death
tardy tulip
favorite tactic is place C4 or AV mines about where the tank is going hit it and...
Mine favourite is placing c4 on the ground right outside of safe zone, people don't expect it there, and they need to RTB sooner or later
little scroll
I do that once every few minutes
tank drives on road/over bridge -> BOOM
they are scared to cross everytime after
don't even need to do it again
tardy tulip
rear, you are kinda fucked. side less fucked, but should still run. in front is ...
Unless you know how to deal side damage from the front
A LOT of people don't expect that, and don't know about that trick
Can win you tank vs tank fights easily, even if you didn't shot first
wary goblet
C4 is the biggest issue, RPG is mostly a problem of the spawning system, though i think reducing a little the amount you can carry will help
wary goblet
Another idea is to make engineers a little slower when they carry tandem vs heat
little scroll
slow isn't really a problem, when you can spawn nearby and get a shot off
tardy tulip
Yeah, you can spawn anywhere with 3-6 rockets, and 6 C4, shoot, die, spawn again in the time tank didn't even reached safety