Don't make TTK so much higher like Xdefiant

[sonic marlin]

this guy doesn't even play the game

[royal marten]

lol

[final slate]

Thank you

[lavish cloak]

oh bruh i just ignored the right part of my screen

i mean they are pointless anyway

community window is above it >:(

[woeful sky]

battlebit absolutely needs better in game metrics and feedback gathering. It takes time to figure out what to put in to the game, takes time to make it, takes time to test it, then it takes time to gather and use the feedback. Its been mentioned that they want to do it, but they have to have a game with more than single digits of new player retention first

[frosty stream]

As a temporary solution, lets make a group of people who will give feedback

[woeful sky]

That is not exempt from the steps previously outlined, its just a different format and scale.

[frosty stream]

As a temporary solution, lets make a group of people who will give feedback

Feedback team would be so cool and original

[woeful sky]

That is not exempt from the steps previously outlined, its just a different format and scale.

[prime fiber]

This should've been in place before the update focused on bringing back as many players as possible

Now it faces the same issue as the "hire more devs"

[woeful sky]

go tell that to the people yelling STOP SCOPE CREEPING || they dont understand what scope screep is so it doesnt matter anyway ||

Hindsight is great, never arrives when its useful

[prime fiber]

Yeah, it'd be hindsight if there wasn't anyone saying this months ago

It's more consequences

[woeful sky]

ok

[royal marten]

hey i'm not yelling for scope creeping and more devs but the feature creep is a bit excessive at this point

[tulip ivy]

fucking lower kd player try to kill game

[woeful sky]

been saying it for months, im the zoomer boomer arcade shooter here to ruin everything.

Yall just aint listening

[royal marten]

wtf does that even mean

[tulip ivy]

I strongly believed that high kd player are more clever and good at balancing

[royal marten]

boomer arcade shooter doesn't really mix

[woeful sky]

Its a cominbation of the various attributes that have been ascribed to me, that i find veeery amusing. So i lean into it

[royal marten]

please never engage with ultrakill, dusk, turbo overkill etc players

[prime fiber]

Who the hell called you an arcade zoomer and why

[woeful sky]

Because I like longer ttk and also primarly run around with smgs on a medic

[prime fiber]

Uhuh

[sonic marlin]

"i'm a vegan meateater"

[lavish cloak]

not ym fault >:(

[sonic marlin]

kibble?!

[final slate]

Skibidi

[devout heart]

Does anyone have clips of one frame deaths? How often does this happen to people? I don't think I can remember a single instance of dying to multiple bullets in a single frame.

[royal marten]

it happens rarely

but there is clips

[worn ember]

Usually it's isp issue/ server issue

[final slate]

It can happen with low fps

Im usually above 100, so i dont feel it

[golden mango]

a high ttk is necessary in apex to draw out firefights with a small amount of participants out longer while battlebit has more players involved and faster respawn so this is not needed

[frosty stream]

Apex TTK: 1500ms
BBR TTK now: 250ms
BBR TTK upcoming: 400ms

[frosty stream]

[arctic latch]

Let's now see the Finals TTK

[frosty stream]

400ms - 1300ms depending on class type

[prime fiber]

Now let's see bad company 2 ttk

(it's 400ms)

[frosty stream]

I'm just eye balling averages with vids rn

[woeful sky]

Now lets see city skylines

[frosty stream]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-fuck-off-go-away-just-go-leave-me-alone-spicy-wings-gif-14523970

[cosmic topaz]

Yeah tbh the title of this thread is super misleading

people are going to read that and think we are making the TTK like 1500ms

Don't make TTK so much higher

[frosty stream]

Even then, its not like everything is gonna be 400ms.
Smgs gonna have their shorter TTK at like 300 something level

[cosmic topaz]

Yes ox1 I am the one who told you that :P

but yes

[arctic latch]

People be forgettting the 400ms is supposed to be the average

[devout heart]

yeah up to 7m

[frosty stream]

Mandatory Balance Fraud posting

[sonic marlin]

💀

bro really made and poste that image

💀

[frosty stream]

All its missing is a red nose

[woeful sky]

Just noticed the excel icon. Nice touch

[frosty stream]

I have less edited version as well, but I just find it funny to post these

Also this one is the best rn:

[woeful sky]

[tulip ivy]

what the hell

[prime fiber]

they stole ur post

can't have shit in detroit

[tulip ivy]

yeah I knew

[woeful sky]

It was inaccurate

[tulip ivy]

but my post has been common titled than before

[devout heart]

umm actually you didn't specify which COD so we can't understand what you mean 🤓

[tulip ivy]

if people see this one in first time, they will be supposed this post for accurate title

[tulip ivy]

99✅ vs 22 or 5❌

[woeful sky]

Its been the same handful of people going round and round. Its not like there's much being said other than "changes bad"

[lavish cloak]

I mean it's the same handful of ppl that are still here

not many new faces

[woeful sky]

The vocal minority, is in this very thread with us

its us

[lavish cloak]

it's me

I am the vocal minority

[tulip ivy]

it’s going to battle like LGBT?

[woeful sky]

Wat?

[prime fiber]

reddit:

[tulip ivy]

by the way, I tested community server last night too. The ttk is very lower than now and their average is 90ms〜150ms.

It's fast that may look like shit at first glance, but I was able to prove that best balancing

[woeful sky]

Oh. Well, since you proved it I guess that's case closed!

[tulip ivy]

because there are no more slow ttk weapons

[woeful sky]

[tulip ivy]

you can choose weapons if it’s faster or not

[wintry plinth]

Faster ttk overall = more choice depending on preference because everything kills
On the other hand, if you have slower ttk, there WILL be "meta" weapons which leads to every person ever to use the EXACT SAME THING

[woeful sky]

There is always a best and worse weapon. Always will be

[wintry plinth]

Yes, but at least everything does something

[woeful sky]

Ttk being low or high doesn't make that not exist

[tulip ivy]

true

[wintry plinth]

Needing more btk and/or ttk will make the players to only play aiming simulator

[tulip ivy]

I really concern that new update make us more skill gap

Pro is still pro, also noob is still noob

[wintry plinth]

Having a lessened variety of enjoyable playstyles in general would be and will be bad for any game

[ivory rivet]

😍

[prime fiber]

They will adjust the skill gap accordingly (and nerf movement)

Àll part of the great plan

[tulip ivy]

noobs can’t have any chance that they win to advanced players

[ivory rivet]

Nuh uh according to terminal

[wintry plinth]

Adjusting skill gap will never happen if there is only one real way to play a game, because the devs can't coach any player, and every player doesn't have equal time to spend to a game

[tulip ivy]

I really tired and boarded that meta and nerf movement

Let’s end it now

[woeful sky]

[Citation needed]

[ivory rivet]

#battlebit-eng message

[woeful sky]

that does not tell me they are testing for balance

but ty

[ancient knot]

I have a sense that the TTK changes is gonna be like as if the old 500rpm AUG was the baseline instead of the ceiling.

[ivory rivet]

We'll find out when the update dr public playtesting starts

[ancient knot]

That’s kinda where I’m at.

We’d know for sure only when it does drop.

[ivory rivet]

Just watch the dev streams surely we'll see damage there

[prime fiber]

Oh joy

What a perfect understanding of QA

[ivory rivet]

Chat is this sarcasm

[prime fiber]

Game companies know best

looks at helldiver's

[ivory rivet]

😍

[prime fiber]

He is right about a small group assuming they know what players want

They brought us a cool audio update and told us that we'd get used to it

😛

[ivory rivet]

[prime fiber]

They're getting better bout it at least, but saying QA is the same as a game designer is crazy

[tulip ivy]

Don't make TTK so much higher like Xdefiant

[hoary pine]

Hmm yes im sure players loved fighting/defending themselves against those camping in redzone

And im sure players also enjoyed running from one point to the next with no actual sense of direction.

Nah give frontline maps a 6 point sector that will fix the issue

[tulip ivy]

Let them spawn kill with enemy safe zone

[hoary pine]

“Noted, we are giving tanks complete immunity to all damage in redzone”

[cosmic topaz]

Your title was misleading, as we will have shorter TTK than the games you mentioned. I changed it for that reason.

Our TTK will be around 400ms, not like apex

I see why everyone agrees with a post saying “dont make ttk like apex”. Because that was never the plan…

[tulip ivy]

my title included cod that’s almost misleading but not absolutely

[royal marten]

(people don't like higher ttk no way)

[tulip ivy]

yeah

[devout heart]

I think any reasonable person would read the post body and following discussion and take away that the thrust of what is being said is about not wanting TTK to be increased or majorly changed.

[tulip ivy]

I think that 400ms ttk is too longer for people

[royal marten]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-pikachu-pokemon-shocked-gif-16985133

[tulip ivy]

Also, as the most nonsense fact, in large-scale combat FPS (mainly BF), the average of TTK is not 400ms

400ms ttk is suitable for Xdefiant like or cod like

but BattleBit is not small scale combat FPS

[frosty stream]

Why?

[royal marten]

why not

[tulip ivy]

at least I can see a future that will fail in that there is no precedent any large combat scale fps

[frosty stream]

Why, If you say 400ms is suitable for Xdefiant then you must have a reason to state so

[royal marten]

ye

[tulip ivy]

400ms ttk is average for Xdefiant

[frosty stream]

Ok.... So why is it suitable for Xdefiant?

[royal marten]

but it does make sense that in a game where the individual is worth more that ttk is higher

[tulip ivy]

it’s just Xdefiant

[frosty stream]

So you have no logic to back up your claim

[tulip ivy]

and there’s not 127 vs 127 combat

[royal marten]

ox1

[frosty stream]

Why? Wouldnt you want an individual to wipe out the entire server?

[royal marten]

no

no you don't

[frosty stream]

But if an individual "is so important", wouldn't you want to maximise it's potential to do his thing individually

[royal marten]

fucking idk

game design or smth

[frosty stream]

[royal marten]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/256758633633677314/1233947997356691539/BATTLEBIT.gif

[tulip ivy]

BattleBit players can’t use any unique skills like R6s or varolant

also kill streak like cod

[frosty stream]

CS doesn't have unique skills

[tulip ivy]

these game system is focus for one person

[arctic latch]

All classes have c4, that may as well be a skill of sorts lmao

[tulip ivy]

yeah but they have 1 headshots

[royal marten]

rpg

https://tenor.com/view/sanzmeme-moai-batu-emot-batu-gif-23675752

[frosty stream]

So does CS

[tulip ivy]

BattleBit doesn't have those unique systems, so it's just specialized in bot shooting

[arctic latch]

Tru

[tulip ivy]

COD and Xdefiant have systems that advance battles advantageously in addition to shooting each other, but the first premise is that BattleBit does not have them. and if it's just a shooting, it's very biased towards aim power and positioning skills. and in general, the longer the TTK, the more aim power is required.

I'm Japanese and my English skills are shitty and my vocabulary is poor, but if I use the word people who sweat, longer TTK will only be advantageous to sweats people .

I think this may not only promote the skill gap of existing players, but also reduce the absolute amount of new players

[ancient knot]

400ms is around the TTK of the old AUG, and may have been closer to its practical TTK.

Honestly, it’s not that bad tbh.

If 300-400ms is needed to make the guns feel much smoother, then it would probably have an effect comparable to the AUG or F2000, depending on the weapon.

[arctic latch]

Battlebit also has systems that also advance battles but in a different way. Every class has gadgets, some of which are unique to a particular class, not to mention the fact that some of these classes also have passive buffs to them.

[tulip ivy]

I think it’s just equipment, not a skill

[arctic latch]

You could honestly just rename it into a skill and it would be more less the same thing

[worn ember]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/990703547165327390/1271757857406189608/5JqM-ifQOsUR7X8swjIKPMnQbQTozhnXeCGQX7NN5YJWal03NCaYSrKZNb1CiGhJNVGSHRAJWOSpg0YasSLLQgEE.jpg?ex=66b8804d&is=66b72ecd&hm=56e45daf95b0ddb41d74603434768f3582e2fb24e25a89d73315ce7d54eeaed7&

[devout heart]

saying the med box or ammo crate is the same as any of the abilities in val or xdefiant is silly

[arctic latch]

Its not the exact 1:1 replica of those abilities or anything but if you just tied one of the equipment options in bbr to a specific character it would end as the same thing, a "skill" that character can use

[devout heart]

I mean yes if the game was different and the equipment was implemented as skills, then it would be valid to call them skills

like how bf2042 was (still is? idk) on release

[ivory rivet]

[devout heart]

as the gadgets exist now, they don't meaningfully interact with ttk, whereas the abilities definitely do in those games. At your disposal in bbr you have movement, shooting, and explosives.

[woeful sky]

Palma gets the underlying conceptual design . The intensity of the unique function varies, but, at its core, it is a unique class "ability", we just call it a gadget.

[shadow warren]

Longer ttk will be disadvantageous to sweats. The shorter the ttk is, the easier it is for a single player to surprise and wipe out a group before they’re able to properly react.

Even in 1v1 situations, a lot of the frustration from casual players who encounter “sweats” is the goofy movement they do which makes it hard to acquire a target and shoot them before they kill you. A longer ttk makes it somewhat more viable to kill a player who’s jumping and zooming around, since they can’t do that effectively while also trying to shoot you.

Even if the casual player still loses the fight, they have the opportunity to damage the other player more and possibly get an assist, which feels way better than dying without getting a hit marker or even a shot off.

[prime fiber]

High ttk isn't the counter to movement, it's a buff

If it's still as hard to hit shots and ttk is longer, then you have to track better to get a kill

If you think players doing this don't also have better tracking and headshot rates for the gunfight

Or that players who couldn't track before aren't just gonna run out of ammo

The first part is true though, which Is 50/50 on leading to a heavier camp fest or more aggressive pushes with C4 only or both

[woeful sky]

there are advantages and disadvantages to the various ttk paradigms you can apply, interesting.

[shadow warren]

If you want to shoot accurately you won’t be moving quickly, and if you want to move quickly you won’t be shooting accurately.

[prime fiber]

Don't need either for c4

[shadow warren]

Cool, c4 ttk is not changing.

Diego proposes we nerf c4 as well, I have no problem with that.

[prime fiber]

Neither do I

[shadow warren]

Holy shit common ground

[prime fiber]

Fr

[woeful sky]

Heresy

[shadow warren]

Why doesn’t everyone having an argument just find something they can both agree on? Are they stupid?

[royal marten]

you can shoot pretty accurately while moving fast though

[devout heart]

There is not any movement penalty for shooting though.

[royal marten]

you can even shoot accurately while doing crazy parkour shit

shit not to long ago i jumped on a fence like 5m above a guy and just hipfired him

[prime fiber]

Remove point shooting, this is a battlefield game after all :p

[royal marten]

no big deal

[royal marten]

this isn't a battlefield game ffs

the point shooting makes the gun mechanics unique and fun

[tall shadow]

that's like the whole meta of XDefiant? lol i mean slapping every movement related/strafing attachment available, BBR also does not have any penalty for shooting while moving

[prime fiber]

Make strafing slower too

[royal marten]

some may even say that is part of its fucking identity

[prime fiber]

Ads speed

[tall shadow]

sitting in one spot just to be accurate, that's like milsm shit

[prime fiber]

Reduce max speed

[royal marten]

nah that's squad ico type shit

[prime fiber]

Milsim speeds

[tall shadow]

yea, a recipe for a snooze ass shooter game, a slower TTK with slow ass movement

[royal marten]

it's funny for a few minutes but sucks huge dongs when trying to do anything other than getting shot at with ✨ maximum immersion ✨

[shadow warren]

There is if you want to aim your weapon.

[royal marten]

man this all just screams "give us the milsim mode already god dang it"

(i want the fricking milsim mode raaaahhhh)

[prime fiber]

What about medium speed (slower than now) and current ttk

Keep tax sprint or smthn

[tall shadow]

i wouldnt mind personally

[royal marten]

wdym medium speed? exo speed?

[prime fiber]

All normal gear

And an m4

[royal marten]

ah

that would make sense

[prime fiber]

You know like most shooters

[tall shadow]

more like light armor, smg and light pistol after the change would be like AR ranger vest speed

[prime fiber]

Close enough

[tall shadow]

that would be alright i think

[royal marten]

normal speed as the upper limit, same ttk as now (AND SAME STATS FFS) and the movement changes

[prime fiber]

Movement players would still be mad but you keep the cool flanks

[royal marten]

seems like a good change to make shit more readable and more new player friendly

[royal marten]

i am a movement player but i do agree on this

[tall shadow]

same

[royal marten]

over changing ttk but more importantly fucking up the balancing

man the entire balancing side of the update is so misguided from what the community can tell smh

[shadow warren]

Not as accurately as if you are aiming down sights. If you want a competitive ttk you’re pretty much always incentivized to aim unless you’re right up in their face.

[shadow warren]

You know that Simpsons gif of principal skinner?

[royal marten]

well if you move fast you are usually close enough to be accurate

[royal marten]

no

[prime fiber]

That's not really true unless you're talking 20 meters

[shadow warren]

If only the other person was also close enough to be accurate

[shadow warren]

You think hip firing is equal to aiming out to 20 meters?

[royal marten]

wdym?

[tall shadow]

and good players arent generaly hard ADSing, walking in a snail pace, but aim while already firing/jumping or preemptively

[royal marten]

yes it is

[prime fiber]

You can and people have pulled it off pretty consistently

[royal marten]

the amount of drop and jump shooting i do lol

[shadow warren]

And what happens when they have to stay in ads longer? Do they just keep moving? Or do they have to choose between movement or staying still and trying to finish the kill?

[royal marten]

just jump shoot

[shadow warren]

It can happen, but it’s not nearly as consistent or reliable.

[royal marten]

or wiggle peak

it's really not that hard

the ttk increase will definitely impact normal players in a negative way and buff the movement players

[prime fiber]

As consistent? Maybe.

Not nearly? There's clips upon clips

Plus what stops the now tankier guy from just

Getting closer

[shadow warren]

A ttk of 0.4 is still quite fast. It’s not nearly long enough to close any meaningful amount of distance.

Look

The whole point of what I’m saying is this: a marginally slower ttk will make it easier to actually engage with other players, instead of dying before you can fully react.

Look back at all of the casual feedback over the course of the past year or so; a huge number of complaints include some variation of “I’m dying before I even get to do anything”

“I get killed by some guy before I even get to fully aim”

“The vector is OP because it kills me before I can do anything.”

Etc.

Now casual players will have the opportunity to do something.

[royal marten]

oh no shit

but it'll also have the effect of making it more difficult to kill someone

now instead of getting blitzed out of existance they'll just get out aimed

or even better

[shadow warren]

And that is significantly less frustrating

[royal marten]

they get out ttk-ed because the new balancing looks very much jank

[royal marten]

heck no

[arctic latch]

Its much less frustrating if you can chalk up dying fast to skill issue rather than random bs

[royal marten]

most of the times it was pretty clear what you died from though...

[shadow warren]

Do you really think it’s less frustrating feeling like you never had any chance? Not trying to be rude but I think you need to seriously think that over.

[woeful sky]

[royal marten]

getting out ttk-ed by meta weapon is just cringe

[arctic latch]

Eh

[royal marten]

better than getting fucked over by some dumb meta gun

[devout heart]

You have a chance to do something about being killed, it's in all the things you did/do before getting shot.

[woeful sky]

just dont die

[shadow warren]

You would rather play a game dying repeatedly and never getting to actually shoot anything instead of losing gunfights?

[prime fiber]

Personal opinion, they should've hit explosives and movement before they hit the guns

[royal marten]

unironically, yes

[woeful sky]

[prime fiber]

Impersonal opinion, use test servers before throwing major changes to the wolves

[royal marten]

what are you trying to say with that that makes no sense

[woeful sky]

"just get good"
And then tens of thousands of players didnt because the barrier to entry for battlebit is fucked

[royal marten]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-pikachu-pokemon-shocked-gif-16985133

[royal marten]

but remember "tutorials bad and thus it's a game issue"

[arctic latch]

There aint nothing bad in giving in a bit of room to correct yourself from being killed

[royal marten]

i wanna 🦐 krill my shelf 🪸

[shadow warren]

You’re saying you think it’s less frustrating dying without ever getting to fight back instead of fighting back and losing.

[royal marten]

yup

[prime fiber]

Getting a good spray and pray or being well rewarded for holding an angle are more important to me than dying because I got greedy or had bad positioning

[royal marten]

i at least know it was my timing that fucked me over there

[woeful sky]

Long ago, in dev casts passed, when we learned about the playe retention drop. Oki went on a long speech about what the plan was, and what is often lost in the missing 5 bullets per second in the vector is the goal is to allow for new players to understand what the fuck happened to them and teach them enough about the game via gameplay to let them decide IF the game is for them or not. Its current iteration, players are missing so much and die so quickly, there isnt a learning curve even start on for many people.

Thus, the single digit player retention

[royal marten]

anything else may be the servers, my internet or some other random bs

or yk, a meta gun

._.

[shadow warren]

Neither of those things are mutually exclusive with a higher or lower ttk.

[royal marten]

thinking this game can reliably pull 10k daily

[woeful sky]

Battlebit is too much of a cluster fuck as it stands to also be the casual goofy shooter that people used to popularize it. Can you get good? yeah, but its 127 vs 127 with no sbmm. The fun part of learning is often missing

[woeful sky]

No idea but it can be better than it is

[royal marten]

and we're back at one of the dumbest things ever, a vector that isn't vectoring

[shadow warren]

Is it really a vector if it doesn’t jam every mag and a half or so?

[woeful sky]

This is what i get for making jokes. I know yall are out there counting your bullets per second while in combat

[royal marten]

now don't with the same horseshit about "uh 5 bullets per second don't matter " they very much do lmao

[woeful sky]

I know! i know you count the casings as they fall

its gunna be rough

[shadow warren]

Oh god I’m having flashbacks to my rate of fire argument with solar sausage

[royal marten]

i love you arguing against strawmans

[devout heart]

I definitely do count my hitmarkers and getting 10+ hitmarkers at 25m is uninstall game territory

[woeful sky]

it is a suggestion thread after all

[tall shadow]

so as a lower skilled player, just dont go where the sweats are, its 127v127 afteral xd i mean kinda a joke response from me, but at the same time with such large matches and maps, u truly can say like 'nah not going there, there's this kid killing everyone, gonna go somewhere else'

[royal marten]

1200rpm vs 920rpm is not just different in identity (which is the vector's fucking shtick) but also gameplay

missing a few shots isn't as problematic with the one as it is with the other

no way

[woeful sky]

You get em schlamm, you tell everyone how terrible it all is!

[royal marten]

lmao the coping is real

[woeful sky]

D: Not the coping!

[arctic latch]

I mean i will argue that vector going from lore accurate rpm to 900 is bullshit

[woeful sky]

muh lore accuracy

[royal marten]

imagine not being able to see more than 15fps

[woeful sky]

eyes cant see past 3 fps

[royal marten]

must be hard not distinguishing between a vector and a mp7

[royal marten]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-gif-23501265

yours maybe

[woeful sky]

Im, just saying random shit. There is no "productive" discussion to be found in this thread, nor will it change the current plan from the devs

[royal marten]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-pikachu-pokemon-shocked-gif-16985133

[devout heart]

That's just this entire discord section in a nutshell

[tall shadow]

kinda funny how damage on weapons in terms of balance gets a lot more room to tweak around (like UMP dealing more damage than AK) but the rate of fire ALWAYS needs to be what is the irl counterpart, which is logical, cuz its a signature thing for vector to be that super fast firing smg, its a bummer if it isnt and leads to confusion

[royal marten]

maybe they should listen to some feedback

[woeful sky]

Not all of it, but a whole lot of it.

[royal marten]

maybe they should open up a group for it so it can be more easily accessed

[woeful sky]

Ive seen em listen, but listening doesnt mean they do what you want in your own anecdotal experience. The game is bigger than this discord, always will be.

[shadow warren]

Surely if I am able to perform an epic Reddit style shutdown with 10 links to loosely related scientific studies and partisan news articles the devs will choose my opinion over the other (objectively wrong) one.

[royal marten]

"remove sniper trails" -discord; -reddit

oki:

https://tenor.com/view/sanzmeme-moai-batu-emot-batu-gif-23675752

[royal marten]

not even about me lmao

[woeful sky]

good to hear

[royal marten]

a bunch of people agree with me (no surprise there btw)

[woeful sky]

[royal marten]

the positive attitude and coping after 8 months truly is either respectable or sad

[woeful sky]

Thats a wild statement holy shit

Just positivity in general

Least you said the quiet part outloud

[royal marten]

positivity about bbr omg read

[prime fiber]

Listening means Oki adds sparkles to gold camo as a last minute change (someone said gold was too boring)

[royal marten]

[woeful sky]

I inferred you were talking about battlebit, and its a wild statement still

Very informative though

[royal marten]

now don't forget "also his favorite game" right next to mentally impaired on your notes

[woeful sky]

I can see the passion, you are arguing your heart out for what you believe.

[prime fiber]

Oki now needs to take the next step from listening to see what neat stuff he can add to processing to see what stuff we need (it's probably not new prestige icons, but it might be a way to make maps feel different, or a way to make players less stupid[unwinnable task])

[royal marten]

the industrial revolution was a disaster for the human race

[shadow warren]

Game balance is when developers implement every single player suggestion within 2 hours or less.

[royal marten]

ban movement abusing catcheaters, they are ruining my casual arcady milsim experience and force me to aim

[prime fiber]

If I'm gonna believe term that's just the reason we keep getting update delays 😛

Not the end of the world but just so we're clear

[shadow warren]

Balance is when I am able to kill other players but not when they are able to kill me.

There also cannot be consequences or downsides for choices I make about my play style.

[royal marten]

"nerf armed 🤏 🐦"

[royal marten]

no no no that would be too infringing upon my 15 bucks i paid

you see

snipers shouldn't have trails nor glint

honestly

they should be hitscan

also

ban movement abusing catcheaters, they are ruining my casual arcady milsim experience and force me to aim

[devout heart]

also add a semi auto 50 cal

[tall shadow]

for helis etc actually i'd fuck with it

[cosmic topaz]

I'm just glad that the brainrot is at least contained in this thread, as opposed to spreading everywhere

[royal marten]

[prime fiber]

Jiggles I know you don't check reddit but since we're talking about listening vs implementing have you seen the juicybenny post that hit 800ish upvotes

[royal marten]

inertia thread

new weapon stats do not look promising thread

[woeful sky]

benny resing pro in the frugis intersection

I knew it was them before benny even posted

[prime fiber]

I thought it was windy tbh

Recognized pro tho

[woeful sky]

wrong gun skin, windy also doesnt air strafe like benny

[prime fiber]

The more you know

[woeful sky]

windy always run a round 1 twitch rivals skin drop

[prime fiber]

I might start running the rivals 2 skins to stand out lol

Nyways

You want a post that's evident of a majority, it's the one that trended and surpassed the usual highs, probably made of players that left and came back bc the post was shared

I mean, it averages 300 upvotes at best and hits 800+?

There's smthn there and it isn't ttk

[woeful sky]

Participating in online avenues to discuss a game, reddit, steam, twitch, discord, any of that, is exposure to a biased small population.

[royal marten]

add in game polling 🗣️

[woeful sky]

Thats true for every game. We are biased even by the nature of the place we are having the discussion.

[royal marten]

now that begs the question

[prime fiber]

You can say that but until we get in game polling nothing changes

[royal marten]

should i become a redditor

[woeful sky]

Can you extrapolate the upvote variance to mean "more people agree or not", sure, you can, but im preeety confident its still a biased representation of the playerbase at large

[prime fiber]

You could go into official servers and just pull a movement trick on em

[royal marten]

so i can empathize with snipers and milsimmers

[prime fiber]

Gets you a nice message 50% of the time

[woeful sky]

Good thing movement is also changing then

[royal marten]

haha

as if that is stopping the people who are good at using it

it's only for changing direction too quickly not being too good

[shadow warren]

God Reddit sucks

[woeful sky]

It wont, anti cheat wont stop cheaters, laws dont stop criminals, but you reduce the consistency and raise the difficult do to the thing and you are better off than you were

[shadow warren]

I just looked at both of those posts and it’s so fucking terrible lmao

[prime fiber]

At least it's not steam forums

[shadow warren]

Juicy Benny and some redditor slugging it out in a 50 comment chain with every comment being downvoted by the other

[woeful sky]

Design is never really an absolute, its determing how you want things to play out and how to best reach that eventuality.

[royal marten]

@woeful sky should i become a redditor to get rid of my internalized discord biases 🗣️

[shadow warren]

Christ on a bike

[woeful sky]

i know this might shock you but, the same people who use reddit, also use discord D:

[royal marten]

not really

[woeful sky]

ok

[shadow warren]

lol; lmao

[royal marten]

i see so many people on reddit that i've never seen here lol

[devout heart]

reddit has some of the Real Ones that were banned here

[shadow warren]

The VAST divide between discord users (cool!) and Reddit users (cringe!) has never been more apparent you guys.

[royal marten]

and so many reddit takes are that, reddit takes

[prime fiber]

Some good, some bad, some not enough. That's the way it goes tho

[woeful sky]

the perfect description

[prime fiber]

You could write a paper on it

(it got an A)

See also: helldivers

[woeful sky]

Users are good at telling you what they dont like, they are not good at telling you how to fix it. Thats why design is a job in itself

And analysts

[royal marten]

"make sniper trails fade from short distance (invisible) to long distance (visible)"

[shadow warren]

Replace sniper trails with the player’s IP address displayed repeatedly in a long line of text

[prime fiber]

So experiment with solutions, piece by piece

[royal marten]

lmao those reddit threads about benny are peak

[prime fiber]

Don't flip the table and see what happens

[royal marten]

https://tenor.com/view/jonathan-joestar-jonathan-joestar-jojo-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-gif-11249847579718210091

[prime fiber]

That's science man

[woeful sky]

That takes time and money, cant always a/b test everything.

[shadow warren]

Benny is doing the exact same thing though lmao

[prime fiber]

At the same time, it's a game company and has first impressions to uphold

It's a very sucky situation

[shadow warren]

They’re just firing away at each other in the comments

[royal marten]

i don't think you get what i'm talking about here

[prime fiber]

Still, you have custom servers. Use that, start there

Play with what you got to get a feel

[shadow warren]

Redditors seething over a clip of Benny reviving pronothin in the middle of the street while Benny seethes back in the comments about how the game must not change and it’s all a skill issue?

[prime fiber]

Community nights had a chance to really explore the weird stuff not unlike the random test sessions that happened w/Oki to just "get a feel"

[woeful sky]

how do you start there? what telemetry do you capture? is it being captured? can it be captured? whos going to review it? when do you review? where do you prioritize that over stopping the player bleed?. Its not a "wrong" solution but everything has a cost of time and effort

[shadow warren]

If it’s not this then what ARE you talking about?

[woeful sky]

I am asking those question rhetorically to highlight the complexities of... basically everything you want to do with telemetry and design.

[shadow warren]

Ask me and I will tell you what is right and what is wrong.

[prime fiber]

Start with TTK, take it as a side project, which with 8 months probably would've finished even with minimal attention. Try different servers for community nights based just on player staisfaction with post game Google survey, entries tailored accordingly. Who reviews it? There was a group, that at minimum would've condensed the data to just what % said what

[woeful sky]

salt and vinegar chips?

[prime fiber]

It could've been done

It technically was done, with XP

[woeful sky]

a side project

I appreciate the gumption Diego

[prime fiber]

Is exactly what was done with XP

[final slate]

Salt and vinegar chips are peak

[woeful sky]

Sorry about your tastebuds 🇫

[final slate]

Weak

[woeful sky]

salt and vinegar is like bottom tier chip

[prime fiber]

Someone else volunteered to just adjust XP values to fit your average player through a couple thousand manual entries

[shadow warren]

Make you fat, but taste so good. They’re okay as long as you induce vomiting immediately afterward.

Remember to brush your teeth.

This is healthy dietary advice for young people

[woeful sky]

mm bulimia flavored

[royal marten]

he isn't seething though lol
i honestly don't care if it changes, it'll be good for less skilled people for sure but good players will just continue to shit on them regardless (then pair that with the tkk and this update might not be the newby friendly experience it aims for, just some food for thought)

[royal marten]

just talking about how it's funny in general

[woeful sky]

Sclamm are you familiar with the concepts of skill floors and skill ceilings?

[royal marten]

yes i am why asking?

[woeful sky]

I am pretty confident the variance between the floor and ceiling are being accounted for. It manifests in things like, no more crouch jumping, incredibly fast vault speeds, reduced over all recoil. Those things very directly raise the skill floor. It is possible that they can also raise the ceiling but, in many situations, those already at the ceiling arent going to see a change in their maximum capacity. I dont know for sure, the faster vault could enable some of the most fucked up movement we have literally ever seen BUT, i believe the floor is moving far enough up to help combat that variance.

Good players will continue to be good, they will find ways to min max a sitaution, they will continue to crush people. The goal is to make it so the skill floor and collective barrier to entry gives players a chance to decide if they want to climb over the proverbial barrier. The things like, nade indicators, sharp audio queues for a player falling, all of it raises the floor.

[royal marten]

writing an essay gad dayum

[woeful sky]

Just two paragraphs

[royal marten]

raising the floor makes it more difficult for new people though?

[woeful sky]

Negative. The floor, is the minimum, its where "everyone" starts, at least in design theory

[royal marten]

uhhhhh

yesn't

[remote vale]

raising the skill floor means the minimum skill is a higher level of skill than otherwise

the changes being made lower the skill floor by making a lot of things significantly easier

[royal marten]

yeah this

lowering it makes it easier for new people?

[woeful sky]

a lower skill floor vs a higher skill ceiling means the variance between the two points is greater

[royal marten]

ye

lower skill floor = easier to pick up

[woeful sky]

k

[royal marten]

higher skill floor = harder to pick up

if that is what you were trying to tell me

[woeful sky]

k, then i will say lower for now because i dont care thaaaat much. My point is, the skill variance appears to be very accounted for with direct game changes that we have seen

or, will see ONE DAY

[royal marten]

well yeah nobody ever disagreed with that

i honestly think the skill floor will be higher since

there still isn't a good tutorial

[woeful sky]

aight then my bad for talkin in circles

[royal marten]

and ttk will probably mess with newbies or even just bad and average players

[woeful sky]

thank goodness we got HEALTH BARS

[prime fiber]

Playing devil's advocate to the points you did raise, lower bullet velocity, per class health values, the persistent explosive issue becoming steeper equally push the floor an ceiling apart

[worn ember]

How much do you think bbr is worth? Like if tencent wanted to buy it rn

[royal marten]

i forgot 💀

[woeful sky]

it totally could i am very curious to see how it will play

[royal marten]

still no hp bars in first person though

https://tenor.com/view/xd-meme-funny-emoji-gif-15406750

[woeful sky]

tencent owns the producers of Delta Force

Why would they buy bbr

[royal marten]

to close down bbr

[remote vale]

surely the enemy having a better understanding of your health than you do can only end well 🫠

[woeful sky]

oh dude the collective outrage if that was ever added. Holy shit what a party that would be

[worn ember]

Just an example

10 mil? 20 mil?

[woeful sky]

no fucking clue, property valuation/company values are.. well outside the realm ive ever worked in

[royal marten]

it is more sensible than hp bars for you enemies though

[woeful sky]

Most ive ever been involved with was 1.2m, or 1.6 i forget what the final bill came out to

[royal marten]

haha

[worn ember]

I think around 10 mil

[woeful sky]

ok

[prime fiber]

Well this has been very enjoyable

At least better than the helldiver's discord

Man

They suck

[royal marten]

mhmmm

tell us more

[prime fiber]

Anyways, here's to hoping Oki just got it right

[royal marten]

[prime fiber]

Bc it's gonna be a pain in the ass to troubleshoot what your players like after a full overhaul

[woeful sky]

Always has been. I promise yall, and schlamm im calling you out here, my positivity, be it sad or respectful, is because i dont know enough to politely tear it to shit. If its bad, i will be shouting from the rooftops that its fucked

[prime fiber]

You and me both

We'll see what okis learned in 8 months

[woeful sky]

or 9, or 10, or 11..

[prime fiber]

We're beyond time at this point

[royal marten]

i'll hold you to that if we get a 920rpm vector, mg3, the casuals don't like and the player retention doesn't get better ;D

[prime fiber]

It's time to show me what you got

Anybody still here has let him cook, it's up to him to present the dish and him alone

[woeful sky]

🤝 you have yourself a deal my dude

[royal marten]

(also i meant respectable, because either you're very trusting in oki because of good will or just sheer stupidity and copium)

[spice ermine]

jesus u guys still discussing right on this post

wtf

[royal marten]

have you witnessed inertia?

that was even more peak

[woeful sky]

im making breakfast and watching a stream, the fuck else imma talk about with battlebit?

[spice ermine]

it was like already 2,500 comments left here bruh

[woeful sky]

I trust that the 8 years vils larry and oki spent making the game, isnt going to stop them from trying to make it as best they can. Outside of that, who the fuck knows . I put a lotta value in their passion to make it good, they've made plenty of professional mistakes.

[prime fiber]

This is just bbeng but for haters and where mods don't talk about off topic

[spice ermine]

sry what is bbeng?

[woeful sky]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/345616096470237186

[shadow warren]

This visual aid has some fundamental flaws, what is the white zone at the top meant to represent?

[royal marten]

oki and vil gave up on the milsim x casual vibe they were going for...
i also trust them in that they are trying to make it as good as possible but trying unfortunately isn't succeeding

they basically gave up on this game which is fucking sad

[royal marten]

the unattainable

just not humanly possible type shit

ig

[devout heart]

You've got it. Something like hitting full auto headshots 100% of the time at hundreds of meters, for example

[woeful sky]

Oh hey its me

[shadow warren]

It’s intentionally misleading though. Why does the bar at the top have any height? Why does the red exist at all when you could just move the white cap down? I don’t like it.

[royal marten]

the red part isn't about the unattainable, it's about the limits set by the game that we're previously not there

that's what's upsetting the good players

[prime fiber]

It's an arbitrary graph

Just bc you put it in graph form doesn't make it official

[royal marten]

that too

[shadow warren]

I know, I’m just saying it’s clearly trying to make accessibility changes to a game look as bad as possible.

[royal marten]

but it does sum up feeling pretty well i suppose

[royal marten]

i mean you're not wrong

but accessibility changes don't need to gut a game's identity, bleeding removal cough cough

[prime fiber]

Just use your words

[royal marten]

nuh uh

[prime fiber]

Relying on graphics to look smarter is stupid

[royal marten]

it's not about looking smarter and who said this was about me?

also

some people very much have difficulty communicating feelings (adequately)

[devout heart]

it's a visual aid to assist in conceptualizing skill floors and ceilings. I thought it matched my understanding of those terms hence I posted it. I can't post the link to the blog post its from with more context without my message getting 1984'd

[shadow warren]

checkmate gamers

now I have a graph

[prime fiber]

Holy hell

[shadow warren]

now they have no choice but to put me on the balance team

[royal marten]

that is very much inaccurate and does not reflect the other graph 💀

[royal marten]

what feedback team?

the one they reformed in march?

[shadow warren]

This is what will happen to the game what do you mean

[woeful sky]

bout that..

[shadow warren]

I’m talking about the new one where it’s just me with a bunch of sliders I can move around

[royal marten]

imagine being disingenuous

[royal marten]

[woeful sky]

Correct || it is, no mo ||

[shadow warren]

I don’t have to, obviously

[royal marten]

ye the people who applied were supposed to receive an update on the end of march, guess what no one got
an update

[devout heart]

there is a third option which is in neither graph is that the skill floor is lowered while the skill ceiling is mostly unaffected/only slightly, which again in context of the source is obvious. The specific criticism being made with that graphic is that the second bar happens often across many different games and one that may be happening here.

[royal marten]

add a good tutorial 🗣️

[shadow warren]

hopefully this clears things up

[devout heart]

Thanks

[shadow warren]

always happy to help, that's why I'm on the balance team.

[royal marten]

you may be balanced but you not based

balance that is not based in the based can not possibly be true balance

you are there for not balance fraud material but a mere imposter

[prime fiber]

Don't listen to the haters

[shadow warren]

that's it bucko I'm increasing your personal head hitbox and headshot damage multiplier

[prime fiber]

You're officially balanced in my book

[royal marten]

you can't

you're not oki

[woeful sky]

unless

[royal marten]

unless oki is a dmr using, bra wearing mf from idk

last time i heard oki was this mf

[woeful sky]

wait thats a picture of oki?

[royal marten]

(there is also an emo version)

[shadow warren]

seattle

[royal marten]

yes

yes it is xD

[woeful sky]

thats amazing

[royal marten]

he's a very fine fella

[shadow warren]

Terrible image, my hair is red and I don’t have any facial hair.

My eyebrows are much lighter though if that helps

Sort of reddish blonde

[shadow warren]

Oh it’s the pronouns guy lmao

[royal marten]

mf starts insulting over pronouns 💀

[sonic marlin]

who did? 💀

[royal marten]

you obviously

[sonic marlin]

no I didn't 💀

[royal marten]

you didn't 🤨

#1254463897851920445 message

^first instance

[sonic marlin]

where's the insult?

🤨

[royal marten]

that curve obviously references intelligence graphs

[sonic marlin]

and?

[royal marten]

obviously insulted the guy 🤷

[sonic marlin]

yeah cuz he's a dumbass

[royal marten]

for what reason?

pronouns?

[sonic marlin]

for the reason of him being a dumbass

and you're trying to find meaning where there isn't one

[royal marten]

why is he a dumbass

[sonic marlin]

would you have been happier had I responded to a different message of his instead?

[royal marten]

you don't like him or are you upset about getting called out for "boohoo pronouns" xD

[sonic marlin]

I just told you, can you read?

[arctic latch]

"Waaaaah a person put words that would let others know how to refer to said person as waaaah"

[royal marten]

ong

[sonic marlin]

I don't understand why you're making things up

[hoary pine]

Bro who the fuck cares we wanna fight about ttk in a battlefield clone, not pronoun usage/shit that doesn’t even relate to the game

Post more graph

[prime fiber]

Does this graph show your eventual rant and subsequent ban as you become more unhinged

[worn ember]

https://tenor.com/view/look-at-this-graph-nickelback-gif-12683147

[royal marten]

inertia thread

[sonic marlin]

no, that is not what the graph shows and I don't understand how you would come to that conclusion but feel free to go on a banworthy rant if you feel the need to

[prime fiber]

lol

[royal marten]

lol somebody put too much salt in the soup

[sonic marlin]

hope you improve your cooking then

[shadow warren]

Banworthy rant lmao

Sorry schlamm you’re getting banned bucko

You too Diego

[shadow warren]

Fuck yeah girl I love roller coasters

[lilac lily]

Don't make TTK higher like xdefiant plz guys

[frosty stream]

How did you get this mp7 fall off graph?

[wintry plinth]

That's an image of a theoretical roller coaster made specifically for applying too much G to people riding it

[frosty stream]

It is a visualisation of using MP7 with new fall off

[devout heart]

I want to get off Mr. Oki's Wild Ride

[valid acorn]

What do you mean, isnt it fun to play a game that has random updates totally changing fundamental system like every update?

[royal marten]

early access 💀

[lilac lily]

You've got to solve the riddle

[wise gale]

I know this is old lmao but I usually like getting pinged when my name is said haha.

But no yeah this whole thing sucked and now there's two ends. On one end people kinda know me more now since those posts blew up. And I've had some nice interactions.

On the other it's caused legit stress and people gunning for me in games or making threats towards me which makes me regret posting my clip some days 😅 but I live with it. Hahaha...

[hoary pine]

Low IQs will always try to start shit

Just show that you’re better and be on your way

[hoary pine]

Also if you’re on community and they’re making threats (especially on bob/officials) 100% just use modmail not worth fighting the single dads with late child support payments

@ lowtiergod

[royal marten]

iq only really meassures logical reasoning and spacial something 🗣️

[arctic latch]

If those people had any logical reasoning they wont start shit

Think its safe to say their IQ is particularly low

[hoary pine]

^ and even then common sense dictates not to start shit with people. Huge difference between playful trash talk and hating on/focusing people for the sake of being an ass

And I’ve seen both, funnily enough more of the 1st from pateron people/discord, vs randoms/reddit doing more of the 2nd

[hoary pine]

Where doompost

[royal marten]

being a troll is funny sometimes

but not in the position of a server owner

[wise gale]

I think I use threaten loose. It's more wishing harm to me or to "forever sleep myself" type comments. Others simply throw abelist slurs at me cause I even said I was autistic. Or just again focus me if they see me in-game.

[lilac lily]

Guys xDefiant... no...

[prime fiber]

Wha happn

[lilac lily]

Increase the TTK... The game is dead... It save the game... xDefiant

[final slate]

Nobody knows how it feels tho, but we can test it out on some community servers right? Just notching up Hp/notching down the damage

[devout heart]

Could be useful but is it's not just a btk change, what we've seen so far is pretty large changes to gun stats like velo, RPM, and damage falloff of course.

[final slate]

Its a start

Either a 50% increase in hp or 30% decrease in damage

The base TTK will increase for all auto weapons

[wintry plinth]

If that was the case, than 25~40% increase in hp with explosives getting damage buff to match up for would be better than most changes.
No changes in TTK is obviously the best thing to do here though

[lilac lily]

TTK... save the game... Kill

[tulip ivy]

No more sweats too

[royal marten]

nooo movement abusers will absolutely no longer be able to run lobbies with that movement abuse of theirs

you just don't understand

[arctic latch]

Can someone give jams water i think he no do very well

[devout heart]

hes becoming a dark souls npc

[lilac lily]

Abuse... Movement... Inertia... Kill

[hoary pine]

Reddit is unaware

[sharp gate]

movement abuse

[lilac lily]

OMGGGG here he is

Chief movement abuser

Bane of BBC

Destroyer of casuals

GET OUT OF HERE JUKE

WE TRYING TO SAVE THE GAME

[royal marten]

but reddit said you all cheat and i should hate you and the devs too

they don't ban catcheaters

[arctic latch]

Guess all it took to help jams is to bring in the movement abuser

No water needed ig

[royal marten]

y'all are ruining my causal arcady milsim experience and force me to aim

[lilac lily]

I'm safe i'm from URL

[ivory rivet]

[sharp gate]

[ember turret]

so true, slow ttk is bad for newbies and too good for sweaties

[spare coral]

don’t tell them that!

they say the ttk increase will save new players from being deleted all the time!

[arctic latch]

Is is really tho?

[spare coral]

it will do it! yes!

(????????)

[arctic latch]

But is it really really gonna do that?

[frosty stream]

It will save them the frustration of being instantly deleted.

[ivory rivet]

bitch rejoined

[royal marten]

it will make them frustrated about not getting any kills

[arctic latch]

Being serious for a sec, will it actually affect people as much as yall claim?

[wheat wharf]

Yeah, if i wanna play bf4 ill go play bf4

[arctic latch]

Ik that the average bbr schmuck has a single braincell and all but at least from my experience it wont be that bad

I did play ape sex after all

[ivory rivet]

its ape sex get it right

[arctic latch]

My apologies i shall correct myself and never repeat such mistake ever again

[ivory rivet]

[ivory rivet]

but fr ttk aside we havent even heard anything about healing and whatever

and were getting fuckass rpm or mag economy

[arctic latch]

True

Wonder if healing will get any changes

[ember turret]

nope

[arctic latch]

Mag economy will be intetesting tho

[ember turret]

faster TTK = newbies can kill sweaties without a need to headshot a soldier 2-3 times

[ivory rivet]

oh yeah since nda dropped heres a heart attack for the movement haters

[devout heart]

The average bbr will probably on average get more hitmarkers per game and that's just more dopamine straight to the noggin.

[arctic latch]

If that really was the case average bbr player would have more than one braincell

[arctic latch]

Whats deadlock like then

Any good?

[wheat wharf]

Longer TTK = no 2+ kill in one peak, no multikills if u catch enemies out of position, overall less kills and considering the way most weapons are accurate -recoil and + ttk will turn bbrs gunplay into bf2042s

[frosty stream]

TTK change and Fall-off change should be treated as separate changes.

All TTK changes do is make TTK from nearly instant to not instant.

Fall-off changes make enemies bullet sponges after 5 meters

Body TTK from 250ms average to 400ms average is not that big of a deal when you have massive heads to shoot at

[frosty stream]

Yeah just ignore the reverse, Sweats can kill groups of newbies without need to headshot

Together with movement changes, I think that the TTK changes will go just fine.

920rpm vector though...

[ivory rivet]

newbies about to cry about pixel peak mg3 angles

inb4 its just shit

shit doesnt matter because were never getting update anyway

[frosty stream]

Real

[ember turret]

You can kill groups of people easily today, just need to catch them when they are healing and you don't need to do headshots for that

[frosty stream]

Guess what, Same can be done even with +150ms to your average TTK

[ember turret]

with slower ttk you should mag dump every target lol and it doesnt make your gun better in the medium ranges

[ivory rivet]

bbr boutta have a pickaxe meta

[lilac lily]

It's so over

[frosty stream]

It's not Apex, It's 250ms (current TTK) + 150ms (Added time to the TTK)

[ivory rivet]

+absolutely fucked falloff

[frosty stream]

That's the Vector (at least)

M4 Fall-off was fine

[ivory rivet]

wasnt it stupidly early tho

[frosty stream]

But that vector looking like it was made by some insane person

[ivory rivet]

also forgot velocity

[ember turret]

yeah its gonna suck

ttk should be less than 250ms

[frosty stream]

Not really? We are still talking about 75meters which is really far, and then the second BTK increase happends at like 200m

[frosty stream]

Why?

[ivory rivet]

velocity and healing

[ember turret]

it just feels better, gun is a gun, not a peashooter

[lilac lily]

They just don't understand us milsimmers

[ember turret]

not milsim fan

[ivory rivet]

😭

[lilac lily]

Now we all have to suffer through these TTK changes

And the people who weren't getting kills anyway will be like 'yeah it just feels SO much better'

IT JUST FEELS SO MUCH BETTER YOU GUYS

IM LIKE NOT GETTING INSTA DELETED ANYMORE

IM STILL DYING ALL THE TIME BECAUSE MY POSITIONING IS CHEEKS BUT AT LEAST ITS NOT INSTANT

[ember turret]

still getting insta deleted by sweaties who can headshot you easily

[lilac lily]

Me on the great TTK changes of 2024

[ivory rivet]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO

[wheat wharf]

Sweats right after changes go online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Niz4KudLk

[ember turret]

call of duty gaming

[ivory rivet]

6cm wadahell

[wheat wharf]

How i look when defending old ttk in battlebit

[arctic latch]

Longer ttk allows room for error and to flee, which lets the player have time to correct themselves and potentially outmanouver the enemy
As for multikills, you can use extended mags, which should be buffed in the next update to be not shit
Or just use the multitude of explosives at your disposal
Or change your way of wiping them out

All valid options

[slate sigil]

well this allows player having more time to react, and let new players able to know what is actually happen, not like now, the ttk is almost just same as your reaction time

and when your skills grow along, the gap between you and bad player could be larger, make your hard work even more worthy

not like now you just need to camp and sneak you would able to zero cost take down mostly anyone

low ttk with the combination of most of the map in this game are wide open

just suffering attackers, who gonna trying to be offense, all turn to defense then just shoot to each other behind cover and act like WW1

you could see the cap been take down was because there is somebody well play successfully infiltrated into enemy's field

[arctic latch]

Point is dont act like longer ttk is objectively worse than shorter ttk

Both have advantages and disadvantages, none of which are inherently better than the other

[slate sigil]

yeah

just need to know which is more suitable to our game

[royal marten]

as val

[slate sigil]

as like

[royal marten]

🗿

[arctic latch]

Ass valve

[slate sigil]

you can't give CSGO or R6 long ttk

[arctic latch]

Yep

[royal marten]

bitch no slandering the special automatic shaft

4.6k kills on the thing

[slate sigil]

our game is the game that having more than 200 players involve in a single server, and with the map that not big enough

[arctic latch]

Nuh uh i will slander the shaft

Fuck you

[royal marten]

nuh uh

[slate sigil]

you know that mean it is 3 times more chaos than battlefield

you need to face more guns than when you playing battlefield

[royal marten]

the shaft shall automaticly peg your special ass

[arctic latch]

Lets see the ass valve do that after the update

[arctic latch]

Maps big enough usually, its just that people dont spread out enough

Which is sometimes a map issue because half of it is just empty

[ivory rivet]

nothing

[ivory rivet]

empty mapes shit routes 2m square objective caps yada yada

[arctic latch]

We know the drill about maps by now

[ivory rivet]

namak 2 v2 will save the game

[arctic latch]

At least it doesnt look like the blandest shit imaginable

[ivory rivet]

yeah it looks like current namak 🗿

[wheat wharf]

1. To say that right now its imposible is simply not true, thats literally my playstyle lol, maybe it makes margin for error a little wider but it also gives an edge for sweats to just react to your flank and headtap you even though you outplayed them in position
2. How would the mags help if enemies have 2 times the time to react to you, i am speaking from experience here , in bf4 which has ttk like that 3+ multikills is a rarity and only the sweatiest players can pull them off consistently
3. I am talking about gunplay here no shit u can c4 your way into multikills , using a tank , etc. Its not really relevant

[devout heart]

Also sort of a game mode issue. Do the same conquest mechanics that work at 32/48/64 player also work at 128/254? I feel like it could use some attention

[ivory rivet]

conq be cooked

[wheat wharf]

For the record i am not a sweat
I have like 1.3 kd and 1.15 kpm

I also wanna say that sweats gonna sweat they are sweats for a reason, no balancing changes would remove them from the game even if ttk and inertia will be a thing they would just headtap u into oblivion

[final slate]

The avg player its a monkey, no can help them

[arctic latch]

1a. Where did i say or imply it was impossible?
1b. Yeah, it gives the edge to everyone, no shit. Im saying that it has its benefits and allows people to not rely solely on catching people off guard or superior reflexes.
2. Extended mags help because you have more bullets, duh. Its also an exageration that enemies will have twice the amount of time to react to you. TTK is going from 250-300ms average to 400ms average. It wont double itBesides, its down to you on how you deal with people that react to you.
3. Fair enough, worth pointing out still.

[novel quarry]

noooo it's impossible to track anything moving faster than 2 meters a second valve how could you

[ivory rivet]

😭

[novel quarry]

do NOT look at warfork footage

[tulip ivy]

I am not a sweat too
I have 4.25kd and 1.7kpm

imao sweaty people have 1 or 2 kd and 2kpm

[ivory rivet]

wat

[final slate]

Pro players are 0.5kd then

And 0.2kpm

[wheat wharf]

Dafuc

[ivory rivet]

1984

is that website automod

yeah its fucking website automod

peak automod

[arctic latch]

Ah right

[wheat wharf]

U for real? Random sweat has like 3+ kd

[arctic latch]

Automod shits itself when you do that

[wheat wharf]

A im doing barbell rows is this related?

Does automod has prejudges against lifters ?

[arctic latch]

Automod had prejudice towards stupid stuff

Just add a space to it and it shouldnt 1984 you

[frosty stream]

1. If you surprise attack someone and they react and flick to you they would still die to you because you have put more lead into them before they have reacted

[wheat wharf]

U have this thing called le head and le meta weapons and le dropshot

[arctic latch]

Dropshot nerfed

[frosty stream]

So whats stopping the flanker from aiming for the head? And drop shotting is getting le nerfed

[wheat wharf]

So we came to conclusion that it now takes more raw skill to kill even of u have a drop on them

Thanks

[royal marten]

fuck it gimme a sniper equivalent to the kraber

[arctic latch]

M200

[frosty stream]

It also takes more raw skill to kill if you get surprised

[arctic latch]

Or l96

[royal marten]

nuh uh

[royal marten]

closer

but still not as movement oriented without being ass

[frosty stream]

We are still talking about +150ms added to the average TTK, the impact is not like apex

[royal marten]

i'll be krabermaxxing in 2 games simultaneously

[wheat wharf]

Yeah but it makes it actually possible and somewhat consistent to good players , so we moved the balance to sweats even more
Congrats

[royal marten]

wtf is apex?

titanfall and titanfall2 are the only games with a kraber worth anyones time

[wheat wharf]

I wrote why its not +150 in my screenshot

[frosty stream]

Yeah bro, even with 0ms TTK you still have to hit something

[wheat wharf]

Try bf4 for a week

See for yourself

[frosty stream]

They have weapon bloom, BBR has 100% accurate bullets

There is no deviation in bullets, They will go where your crosshair aims

[wheat wharf]

Then bf 2042 lol

[ivory rivet]

[royal marten]

a blessing and a curse

[arctic latch]

1. Its a matter of how the player reacts, at least if you fail to do it properly the player is more likely to realise its a skill issue and not random bullshit numero 10
2. You have more bullets in the mag. Unless you have a brain fart the moment you start firing you are bound to land shots

[wheat wharf]

Aight guys good discussion tired lifta wants a burger and some battlebit

[arctic latch]

Fair cya later

[wheat wharf]

Gonna be back tomorrow

[ivory rivet]

people just gonna cry about smgs regardless of ttk

and soontm pickaxe bullshit

[wheat wharf]

Fuck smgs all my homies use honey badger

[arctic latch]

My man

I aprove of this

[ivory rivet]

😭

[arctic latch]

Its inevitable

[wheat wharf]

Honey badger /as val gang we dont need full size mags where we going 😎

[royal marten]

you better not talk smack about the scoop.

(i'm a val and scoop main)

[wheat wharf]

@royal marten wth is scoop

[royal marten]

scorpion evo

[wheat wharf]

Ah lol i havent unlocked it yet

[royal marten]

test it out in sandbox

[wheat wharf]

I did it feels like a chainsaw

[royal marten]

ye it's not as gay as the other smgs

[wheat wharf]

Seems like it considering its batshit crazy nature

[hoary pine]

fuck off with that pp19 slander

I shall get that shit gun to gold to prove a point probably at a faster rate than the update tbh

[sharp gate]

2 kpm

[woeful sky]

not having a golden pp19 , come on now

[hoary pine]

Was working on vector for bob challenges, I need their currency

[sharp gate]

kibble

[lilac lily]

Us with our 3 KPM

[ivory rivet]

i should go dig out the launch stats with 6kd 6kpm

[sharp gate]

[sharp gate]

[lilac lily]

Not possible without hacks

[sharp gate]

6 kpm…

Hacks!!

[ivory rivet]

[royal marten]

i forgot it was an smg, i have it in my mind as a pistol caliber carbine due to how it plays lmao

also, imagine worrying about kpm when you can just vibe with a stealth gun, a chihuahua gun or some big dakka dakka

[spare coral]

^ not having to worry about kpm because good players will be good players regardless of the gun they use

[spare coral]

but yes i agree 6 kpm is impossible without hacks

[ivory rivet]

Fuck lonelys was only 4.6

Swear someone had 6

Hippo was 5.1

[ember turret]

even in cod4mw (2007) ttk is fast

and it feels great

[slate sigil]

always somebody using the worse example cod to discuss the ttk changes

im not gonna explain it anymore

[devout heart]

MW2019 TTK is fast

and it feels great

[royal marten]

squad's ttk can be very long, it feels great

[slate sigil]

well just use your head to think, what is the biggest difference between cod and bbr, and what it the biggest difference between cod and bf

[devout heart]

HLL TTK is fast

and it feels great

[royal marten]

tf|2 kraber ttk is instant and feels great

[slate sigil]

I can say RWR is even more faster, one shot able to kill

old delta force was also instant kill, 1-2 shot to kill

ah and rising storm was also almost instant kill

[ember turret]

which cod which bf

bbr and cod are very similiar

[royal marten]

what's the biggest cod lobby?

[ember turret]

and bf4 for example can be very similar to cod (if you pick metro map)

[devout heart]

ground war my beloved

[ember turret]

bf2 and bf3 have a lot of differences

[ember turret]

what do you mean? longer ttk is great for high population battles?

[royal marten]

it's not

all it does is mitigate individual skill

and even then a solo fragger probably won't change the games outcome

[hoary pine]

It really isn’t unless you want to promote camping

Or stacking squads, both of which people complain about.

Ofc obligatory “depends on how long” and all of that but in general, too long just discourages offensive play and encourages camping, which.. meshed with this game’s currently (imo) bad default objective marking system leads to a bad time for people trying to ptfo.

[slate sigil]

bbr and cod are similar is the best joke i heard

you always could say bbr are similar to bf cuz both are massive multiplayer fps game

still reasonable

but similar to cod

[royal marten]

bbr is similar to tarkov because the point shooting is similar you know

[hoary pine]

Definitely not cod lmao, but yes BF is easiet to draw to because the game reminded people of old bf + the name represented that to them

[arctic latch]

Bbr is similar to titanfall because it has guns

[slate sigil]

some is similar yeah, this i agreed, especially the first shot kick

but only little

just little

[royal marten]

*bbr is similar to titanfall because of the movement abuse

[devout heart]

it's like quake because rocket launchers

[slate sigil]

great point lul

[arctic latch]

That too

[royal marten]

in both you can't just sit in a corner with a lmg because of those damn cheaters

[slate sigil]

i can't even give any objection

[hoary pine]

Me when shitfire aim assist:

🖍️

[slate sigil]

[royal marten]

me when car + tone regard

and yes i am fucking malding and seething with my kraber + scooch

[hoary pine]

nah scorch was my main too

[slate sigil]

talking about titanfall cheaters you just remind me apex cheaters

[hoary pine]

Was funny to snipe people with it

[royal marten]

but i am honorable so i don't ever play those degenerate things (except tone i did use it in a lobby today due to a very annoying titanbrawl lobby)

[arctic latch]

Apex preds trying not to cheat (impossible)

[royal marten]

apex trying not to be official fanfic (impossible)

[slate sigil]

our apex rank are so fking fantastic!

[royal marten]

"vipers body was found in his northstar in space"

and whole timeline that got fucked up