Fix the sniper issue by encouraging CQC

[ocean anchor]

The solution is quite simple: stop giving maps ginormous amounts of open spaces and encourage them to fight more in cities/villages instead of being in their own spawns

[rare phoenix]

ah yes, make shit like cod

• snipers already have significantly higher than average damage
• whipping out a pistol really isn't difficult after tagging someone
• sniper rifles are sniper rifles not slug shotguns with range
  and you do realize that flipping the damage curve will make them completely busted right?
  either get the skill to use them in cqc or don't use them in cqc, they are not shotguns
  if you want a ranged option that can also be effective in cqc use battlerifles or dmrs

[ocean anchor]

If you reverse the damage curve you will have shotguns with slug shells, lmao

[verbal vapor]

I don't use snipers. I'm hoping for an actual fix for the sniper problem. If the goal is to discourage people from camping a kilometer away, the solution should be to make that playstyle inviable and encourage people to shoot at close ranges.

[sand fjord]

So.. make it so you can’t snipe in spawn?

Because this is what most people are complaining about in regards to that

At least if they’re camping on a beach I can sneak around to potentially get them. Can’t shoot in my gun in the enemy safe zone so my only option to counter the spawn sniper myself is to pull out a sniper

[verbal vapor]

Well what if sniping from kilometres away was simply less effective than sniping at medium ranges, So that people who play infantry can actually have a chance at killing a sniper without running a marathon to their camping location

[sand fjord]

Refer to this point @verbal vapor

Changing the sniper won’t mean anything if the sniper has too many good opertunities to camp at long range cause the maps allow for it

[verbal vapor]

Even so, removing the only advantage a sniper has, basically makes the sniper useless.

[ocean anchor]

Exactly, snipers are not the problem, THE MAPS ARE

[sand fjord]

As for cqc/mid range sniper, just remove the bullet trail. Keep it on for long scope but otherwise nobody had an issue with mid range sniping

[sand fjord]

I’m not saying sniper shouldn’t be able to snipe, but the maps shouldn’t be too open, and spawn sniping shouldn’t even be a thing

[verbal vapor]

Why would anyone use a 2 second TTK sniper as opposed to a <1 second TTK in almost any other weapon

[ocean anchor]

Maps needs more points of interest, more flags, more BUILDINGS

[sand fjord]

Like this is solely a map issue, not a “sniper” issue imo.

[verbal vapor]

The map might be a part of it, but since the sniper does barely over half health at close range, nobody is going to use it

it would basically kill snipers in the game

[sand fjord]

Here’s the thing. People did use it in mid/close range, specifically prior to the bullet trail ranges

Because even if you didn’t kill chances are you caused them to bleed and your teammates can finish the job

[verbal vapor]

A sniper is an option at mid range, but almost any other primary weapon is simply better

[sand fjord]

And also, this. Mid range Snipers also benefit from these buildings

[ocean anchor]

Even so, what are the chances of finding an untouched enemy in the middle of the combat? Close/mid range dmg is all you need to finish anyone

[verbal vapor]

Usually people are at 80 health, bandaging from bleeding usually gets around there

I personally wouldn't rush out if my health was below 60

[ocean anchor]

I forgor about the bandages changes because I haven't played in 3 weeks, lol

Anyways, 65 dmg is still pretty high, and at close range all you need is a glock

[verbal vapor]

switching weapons is ridiculously slow in this game

by the time a sniper pulls out a pistol theyd already be dead

not to mention sidearms are always worse than primaries

[sand fjord]

Imo it isn’t. I often find myself being able to swap to my pistol in time in the occasions I do need it

[ocean anchor]

Glock and any of the revolvers/hand cannons beg to differ

[verbal vapor]

I would assume that literally any smg would have a better ttk than the best sidearm

at close range

[sand fjord]

Single shot normal pistols yeah, otherwise hard disagree. But again that’s more of a “oki please buff pistols” problem and not relevant to sniper specifically

I don’t think anyone would disagree if I said the usp was ass

Or whatever the second pistol is called, it’s so bad

[verbal vapor]

the grach?

443

[sand fjord]

Honestly let’s just say all of them cause let’s be real most people use handcannons or the glock

[verbal vapor]

yea

[sand fjord]

But yeah those pistols need some love

[verbal vapor]

people would rather use a pistol

as compared to a sniper

because snipers suck at med-close range

[sand fjord]

I mean, let’s be real though, it goes back to the bullet trail issue.

You snipe once you instantly have eyes glued to you in mid/cqc range.

[verbal vapor]

the bullet trail is kinda valid imo

[sand fjord]

I still stand by removing it for any scope that isn’t classified as long range would encourage it

[verbal vapor]

without it snipers would just stay in one spot

and nobody would know where they were

[sand fjord]

Mid range snipers aren’t the problem and they’re honestly easy to spot imo. It’s mainly spawn snipers. Half the time I can’t even tell if they’re playing or afk and plus the only counter is “just counter snipe or build/run”.. not ideal

[rare phoenix]

sniper sitting in spawn is so rare and getting killed by them even more so, what is the issue apart from not pto?

[verbal vapor]

when someone just camps in the corner of their spawn with an m200, its incredibly annoying

or just when people are in some crack in the building

you cant hit them, see them, you might know where they are if you saw the bullet trail, but they just get free kills

[verbal vapor]

Its really dumb how spawn snipers can simply just instakill you without many downsides, because the snipers in this game instakill at long range

Almost every other FPS game fixes this issue by giving snipers the same high-low falloff like every other gun, just with higher damage, longer range

it sounds OP but keep in mind that snipers have a firerate of 60 rpm

No more spawn sniping, and the sniper population is still intact

[rare phoenix]

oh the spawnsniping will be even worse buddy xD

[verbal vapor]

Spawn sniping will be worse for the snipers if it does less damage at long range

which would help infantry a lot

[rare phoenix]

oh that

nah, it's fine

it's literally what sniping is lmao

we don't need shotguns in this game

[verbal vapor]

Ok, well how else could the sniper problem be fixed? without nerfing snipers to the ground outright?

Also by your logic, would DMRs be slug shotguns as well? because they share the same high-low damage falloff?

[earnest shuttle]

oh another "fix sniper" post that misses the actual problem

[verbal vapor]

Well, can you address the actual problem then?

[earnest shuttle]

the issue is not the sniper and no nerf to it will change it the issue is that 80% of the maps are empty which mean's sniping is the only way to play them while still having fun

[verbal vapor]

making a map with no empty space would fix the sniper issue

but also

there would be no snipers

fixing the issue this way is essentially the same thing as just removing snipers from the game outright

[earnest shuttle]

no

[verbal vapor]

Snipers arent an option for med/close range

[earnest shuttle]

you can still play snipers and you would still have like 2-3 sniper maps but you are no longer able to play sniper on every map on almost every spot without issues

[earnest shuttle]

they are

[verbal vapor]

yet any other weapon can be used in every map

[earnest shuttle]

if you can hit your shots

[verbal vapor]

the sniper is simply inferior to DMRs or assault rifles at med range

[earnest shuttle]

ye because they are used by 4 classes and not just one

[earnest shuttle]

depends on your aim

[verbal vapor]

even if you can aim, the TTK is 3 seconds

because usually the first shot wont kill

[earnest shuttle]

if you get the first headshot the other one is dead before he can kill you

[verbal vapor]

thats the same with almost every gun

[earnest shuttle]

no

[verbal vapor]

DMRs especially

[earnest shuttle]

you can hit a headshot with an ak and still lose the fight

same with dmr

there are only a few cases where sb survives a sniper

[verbal vapor]

well to play this way is to expect every sniper user to have godly levels of aim

to hit something as small as the head

[rigid solstice]

Snipers are supposed to be long range

[verbal vapor]

every time

[rigid solstice]

Onehit kills close range shouldnt be a thing which is why there is not shotguns

[earnest shuttle]

and placing more rocks etc around the maps will not remove snipers just make it a bit harder for them

[verbal vapor]

It is really annoying if you are an infantry player and someone is sitting in the back and instakilling you

[earnest shuttle]

map issue not sniper issue

[verbal vapor]

making snipers bad at long range would just make snipers bad overall

[rigid solstice]

Maps are dogshit open spaces

[verbal vapor]

the big issue is camping

if you remove camping, snipers are gone

[rigid solstice]

Nothing wrong with recons

[verbal vapor]

because camping is the only thing snipers can do

[rigid solstice]

Its just not happening close range sniper is a cod thing and its silly af

[earnest shuttle]

it's not just black and white you can get more cover without removing the camper playstyoe completely

[verbal vapor]

at least if the sniper did some 80 damage at close range and falls off to 60 over time, it would remove campers

[rigid solstice]

Maps just need be better designed in general

[earnest shuttle]

that is removing snipers

[verbal vapor]

thats removing campers

camping is innefective if it only does 60 damage at a kilometre away

[rigid solstice]

Thats the class identity camp and being useless

[stone grove]

Empty, or surrounded by a ring of either elevated or distanced cover for snipers to sit in with open ground in front as a buffer. Most POIs feel like they're in a crater.

[earnest shuttle]

ye but that's kinda what they are supposed to do

[verbal vapor]

and thats a problem

everyones trying to fix the sniper issue yet claiming that its the playstyle for it

[rigid solstice]

Its a problem because they dont limit how many recons are allowed per team

[earnest shuttle]

fix the maps and you will see that most snipers go back to playing other classes while still keeping the sniper class viable

[rigid solstice]

Some comm servers are already doing okis job and limiting them

[verbal vapor]

Sniper class would suck at close range

it simply gets outclassed

[earnest shuttle]

limiting snipers is a bandaid solution

[verbal vapor]

which means nobody will use sniper

[rigid solstice]

Bro are u stupid actually

[earnest shuttle]

back to black and white

[verbal vapor]

just one guy with a 40x intervention would ruin the game

[rigid solstice]

Snipers are supposed to be bad at close range

The fuck are you talking about

[verbal vapor]

i would rather be shot by a 5.56 mm rather than a .308 winchester wouldnt you think?

[earnest shuttle]

I always play sniper <200m

[verbal vapor]

yes, and the only playstyle for that is to sit back in a corner

because its really difficult to be aggressive with a sniper

[rare phoenix]

and?

that's not an issue
they are sniping

they are doing what a sniper does

[verbal vapor]

Yet you say there is a "sniper" issue

you cant fix the camping issue if you claim that camping should be kept

[rare phoenix]

close and medium range sniping is the actually annoying part

[verbal vapor]

Not the guy with a 40x scope in the corner of the map doing all your health in one shot?

[rare phoenix]

long range snipers you can see and dodge due to their bullet taking at least 3/4 of a second to arrive at your location

[verbal vapor]

snipers have something called leading

[rare phoenix]

or yk movement

yes

[verbal vapor]

you're not gonna be zig zag strafing everywhere you go

you might need to take cover sometimes

and thats all the time they need

[rare phoenix]

if you really run in a straight line everywhere that's your fault lmao

[verbal vapor]

It doesn't matter too much which direction you run, you dont know which direction the sniper is

[rare phoenix]

do you have eyes

[verbal vapor]

it might be possible you could be running perpendicular to them and zigzagging is useless

[rare phoenix]

but hey, if your solution to the long range sniping is take away their range induced uniqueness and making them slug shotguns
then so bit it, good thing the devs don't like shotguns 😉

!shotguns

[olive goblet]

Are you planning the addition of shotguns?

NO

⠀

[prisma dew]

Take away the sniper zeroing mechanic

Ez

[verbal vapor]

Who said it was a shotgun?

if anything its just a better dmr

[rare phoenix]

if you flip the dmg curve it's a shotgun

[verbal vapor]

copy the damage curve from DMR

and extend the range slightly

damage slightly

and that is what a sniper should be

[rare phoenix]

so long range sniping is gone unless you hit a headshot at 1000m+ (very unlikely with anything but a 20x or 40x but even then it's tricky)

[prisma dew]

they just need to make long range sniping harder, dont touch the damage

[rare phoenix]

fr if you want cod snipers, go play that

[verbal vapor]

exactly

I usually play battlefield

where snipers are actually balanced

seeing as this is supposed to be an alternative to battlefield, i'm disappointed that this game actively encourages camping

[rare phoenix]

ok
if you want to play bf go play bf

let the game be unique

[rare phoenix]

[verbal vapor]

camping isnt very unique

[rare phoenix]

it's not

[verbal vapor]

its scum and annoying

[rare phoenix]

and?
if you get killed from someone 1000m+ away that's your issue

[verbal vapor]

How is it my issue if I cant see them

[rare phoenix]

if you can't see them, they can't see you

[verbal vapor]

even if i can see the glint, it takes just a second for the bullet to travel

[rare phoenix]

= if there's no bright star looking at you, you aren't beeing looked at by a sniper

[verbal vapor]

sometimes they might be on a flank

or the side

if the glint is visible, the only thing i can do is run away

[rare phoenix]

and multiple second for aiming at that range

[rare phoenix]

huh flanking should not be rewarded?

[verbal vapor]

Just saying, theres no good way to fight a camper

besides camping yourself

[rare phoenix]

there is

get the frick away from their los

[verbal vapor]

yes

[rare phoenix]

then go fk them up yourself

[verbal vapor]

the only thing you can do about campers is run away

by that time they might have changed positions

or they might not, but they have 500 claymores in their building

[rare phoenix]

but campers don't change their position

[verbal vapor]

especially if they are in one of those apartment buildings

even if you destroy one window, they have like 50 more

and they can still dig holes in the wall

[rare phoenix]

"those apartment buildings"
what?

which map are you talking about

[verbal vapor]

the buildings with a bunch of windows

really tall

rectangle buildings

theyre on some of the maps

[rare phoenix]

a building usually is built that way, yes

[verbal vapor]

and, its perfectly fit for snipers

they have practically infinite lines of sight

and its really hard to infiltrate

because they can rig the stairs

[rare phoenix]

so lonovo (not long range at all, medium at best)
sandy (but not in the city lol)

and if you can't clear a building you are specifically targeting to get someone out of
then what are you doing?
running in with flashbangs blinding yourself?

[verbal vapor]

well you cant blow up the claymores on the stairs either

they get notified

as far as i can see

theres no good way to infiltrate one of those buildings without alerting the sniper

[sand fjord]

Grapple and baracade stair building work to scale buildings

The ladder of which is, all things considered, pretty quiet if you don’t make too many footstep noises

[verbal vapor]

even if you do get in, the footsteps sound is incredibly loud

and you still have to find which window they were in

by that time they would probably be gone

in fact it has happened to me several times

[rare phoenix]

guess what
you can tear down the entire building, rush in immediately after you blow shit up (you got a dmr, ar, br, smg, lsw, lmg, pdw or carbine at your disposal)
and then kill them
most of them are deaf and blind anyways so killing them is rather easy

[verbal vapor]

It just proves that you have to take great lengths just to kill one building camper

even if you get into the enemy territory you literally have to tear down the whole building just to kill them

[sand fjord]

Not really? Engineers heat rpg and c4 are good at that

And usually don’t take that long to use

[verbal vapor]

and thats also assuming that you managed to get past enemy infantry

[rare phoenix]

you don't have to unless you run into the battle over the same path, in the same manner, with no plan

and then unsurprisingly die

it's all about positioning and finding your way

[verbal vapor]

Getting to the other side with the buildings isn't much of an issue

just you have to spend all that effort

to kill one camper

[rare phoenix]

you don't have to

[verbal vapor]

if i dont, the guy keeps picking off people from hundreds of meters away

theres not many ways to fight back

unless you want to also adopt the same scummy strategy of camping in a corner

[silver badge]

You realise Snipers are supposed to camp, Sounds like, you just wanna run around, with a 1 shot sniper, using it like a shotgun.

Long range snipers, should be countered by other snipers, and short range ones (0-400m), are pretty easy to get also.

Little harder if they are in buildings

[rare phoenix]

the man himself

[verbal vapor]

I dont use snipers

[rare phoenix]

[verbal vapor]

the problem of snipers camping needs to be addressed though

[rare phoenix]

wow

no, it doesn't
because they are snipers

[silver badge]

But does it really..

[verbal vapor]

i cant believe some people would play this game like the 15 dollar version of cookie clicker

[silver badge]

If they have paid for it, they can play it however they please, within rules/eula..

[verbal vapor]

Yes, but camping shouldnt be encouraged

[sand fjord]

My only issue is spawn sniping. Any other forms tbh I’d argue are fine

[silver badge]

I loved sniping at around 300-500m.. Using a 4x scope, was alot of fun

[verbal vapor]

if anything, actually giving people a chance to kill them would be more fun

[sand fjord]

Or at least do what the frontline gamode does and let me shoot in the safezone for a bit before being forced to retreat

[rare phoenix]

ngl i find it funny how people who use snipers complain about them being nerfed far to hard and then having little medic assault timmys who never picked up a rifle longer than a meter in their bbr "career" before go on about how unfair sniping is lol

[verbal vapor]

people complain about sniper nerfs are probably complaining about how they cant camp and hide in a corner undetected

[rare phoenix]

the only modes where sniping is actually ass and needs to be regulated are frontline and invasion (better frontline)
and that only requires a change in where the safezone is after the point capping has begun

[sand fjord]

Nowadays i’d argue it’s fair outside of the whole spawn issue, but medium/close range never needed bullet trails and that should be reverted.

[silver badge]

Not really, seems it's mostly because, they could no longer mid-range snipe, which on some maps, is the only way you can snipe

[sand fjord]

I’d rather see the modes try to adopt frontline safezones with this in mind. Can go out for a bit but go in too deep you’re fucked

And shoot ofc up until a certain amount of time has paased

[verbal vapor]

removing the ability to snipe and camp would probably ruin the sniper population too

im not a sniper main but i dont think that snipers should be removed outright

[rare phoenix]

i like the trail on long range
it shouldn't be there for about 300m but then fade in past that
it's quite advantages tbh
and it makes sniper vs sniper battles quite intense

[silver badge]

I've not played since the Medic/Sniper changes were done, but that's for another reason

[rare phoenix]

assault is finally what it should be

[silver badge]

But, before that, I was Medic main, and switched to whatever class was needed..

[verbal vapor]

Assault is fun

but not when youre fighting against enemies that you cant hit

[silver badge]

I used assault with SC4

[rare phoenix]

d m r

[sand fjord]

I mainly went to support for building sandbag structures and playing music with an ultimax. Teammates near the bunker get ammo

[rare phoenix]

or better yet, movement and cqc

[sand fjord]

Everyone wins

[rare phoenix]

support just doesn't feel viable to me

the games flow is just

[sand fjord]

I treat support as a defensive tank tbh. But I think lmgs are just good for that in general

“Holding the points/defending” cause.. yeah it’s a machine gun xd

But yeah good movement and flanking usually beats the unaware sniper

[verbal vapor]

you might also have to hope that the sniper doesnt see you coming

[sand fjord]

Ofc they can try to fight back with the glock or hand cannons though

[verbal vapor]

handguns arent too much of an issue to deal with

when you get close to the sniper theres no way they can fight back

the issue is you actually have to avoid infantry and other snipers to get to one

[teal wraith]

Why not have the sniper have two debuffs?
Stabilize damage (too close or too far reduce damage, this is determined by either a scope to velocity or some sort of slider like sound settings)
If someone shoots out of their spawn, they no longer get spawn protection

[ocean anchor]

Man, that's exactly a MAP problem, not a class problem

[hot drum]

everytime a thread like this pops up I chuckle, no idea what the people are talking about, absolutely tunnel visioned on their playstyle and "how to play", completely ignorant about what the purpose of a sniper rifle is, lacking mental capacity to fathom different opinions

even the very begining of this thread "the sniper/camping problem is a huge issue in battlebit", do you have anything other than your very own opinion on that? holy tomatoes

point 3 - just randomly picking this - "snipers are slow -> limiting playstyle", dude, do you drive a jetski only to complain that the very design of a jetski is limiting you to the frickin water? get some sensible reasoning going

"sitting in the back of the map anf picking off enemies from a kilometer away is actively encouraged"
no, it is not you scrabble box, that is the very point of a sniper rifle

"snipers do less damage on close range --> not viable to do close range sniping" you wanna do red dot sniping or something? the heck, do you also use a boltcutter to unscrew something? use the tools you are given in the way they are meant to be used

you dont by a boat to go skydiving, guess why

if you are so adament on a suggestion about "snipers being a problem", you would have realized that 1. the velocity of the sniper rifles are too damn high, m200 should be like 800-850 ish, and 2. snipers are not that big of an issue at all, its the mere amount of snipers...

limit 2 recons per Squad or something and most of the issues would be solved

"roads are bad because they actively encourage you driving your car on them" level reasoning"

"if that isnt possible, at least make a sniper with the capability to do CQC"

👄 👁️ 👄

"create a semi truck which pulls 80 tons but also make it good at high speed cornering"
you absolute parking garage

[ocean anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/ibai-gif-23942517

[hot drum]

no offense to you man, but the level of mind numbing takes i have read on the whole sniper topic are driving me insane, it has to stop

[mighty thorn]

Agree

[hot drum]

it should be crystal clear as walts meth that: the more you specialise a weapon system, the better it gets at 1 thing while getting worse at all the other things

[ocean anchor]

One of the BR servers has recons limited to 2 per squad, it helped a lot

Also, one thing I do when I get to play squad leader is kick every recon from my squad (that are sitting on our own base)

[mighty thorn]

💀

[covert pasture]

based as fuck right here

[verbal vapor]

The only thing a sniper is good at is camping. Now what do you see most campers using?
The sniper class in this game is specialized specifically so people can sit on some hole in the wall all day like a mole rat just so they can play the paid version of Sniper Elite 3D, which isn't an issue in other games, because in other games, snipers aren't completely useless at medium to close range.

I don't get your argument of "the map problem" when all that limiting the usefulness a sniper does is killing the sniper population. Taking away the only advantage a sniper has would make it so nobody will use it.

Also there's the argument that snipers are "SUPPOSED" to be used for camping. Well, in a slow paced milsim game against bots, this would be the case, but in an arcade-like shooter, all it does is make it less fun for everyone. I genuinely can't believe that people will blame the camping problem on the maps instead of the weapon, that you just stated, was literally MADE for camping

[hot drum]

man im now getting out of bed for this answer

gimme a bit

the message reference is not intended

[covert pasture]

so if a map is good for camping and I camp w/bipod ultimax I’m no longer an issue?

but if I camp same spot with sniper I’m now a problem?

[earnest shuttle]

in what world are sniper useless in medium range?

[verbal vapor]

Camping isn't an issue when you're close enough to be reached by infantry

[earnest shuttle]

what is your definition of medium range?

[covert pasture]

Any spot is reachable by infantry.

[verbal vapor]

How about the enemy's spawn

[covert pasture]

Except that

[verbal vapor]

150 meters or around there

[earnest shuttle]

a sniper 1km in the distance is useless

[covert pasture]

Anywhere in map is reachable though

[verbal vapor]

M200 with 40x scope would beg to differ

[verbal vapor]

I don't wanna run a marathon just to kill one guy in their spawn

Or even just to get in range

[earnest shuttle]

40x scope is a meme a m200 in medium range with medium scope is way way better

[covert pasture]

🤷‍♂️

[earnest shuttle]

imagine there was something called cover on the maps

[verbal vapor]

You see, medium range snipers I'll respect, because they actually put up more of a fight

[verbal vapor]

Yeah, snipers aren't the only thing you have to cover from

[hot drum]

lets dissect this point by point:

The sniper class in this game is specialized specifically so people can sit on some hole in the wall all day like a mole rat just so they can play the paid version of Sniper Elite 3D
not only in this game, but by literal concept

which isn't an issue in other games, because in other games, snipers aren't completely useless at medium to close range.
you now argue that snipers are completely useless at medium range, hmm, weird, me and my friends for anecdotal evidence have no issue whatsoever playing medium range snipers, sniper work great at med. range! heck, you literally said you dont even play sniper, how thick are you to state they are useless when you dont even play sniper, get out of here

I don't get your argument of "the map problem" when all that limiting the usefulness a sniper does is killing the sniper population.
is that really hard? less snipers on map --> less snipers watching your exposed head

it is either a map problem, or a problem on the person being killed, never the problem of the sniper shooting you. Why? If the sniper can pick you off at medium range like a walk in the park, you either stood still too long or your entire playstyle is flawed by not taking enemy snipers into account, if you find yourself repeatetly getting killed by snipers, think about your paths and where you run, 100 % issue in them or in how you move

Also there's the argument that snipers are "SUPPOSED" to be used for camping. Well, in a slow paced milsim game against bots, this would be the case, but in an arcade-like shooter, all it does is make it less fun for everyone.
Ok, so only because the game does not fall into your constructed, category of games the snipers are not supposed to be... sniper? do I get that right? If so, check for CO2 levels in your room

Again, snipers are by fucking concept made to kill you off at a distance, you have to adapt for that as snipers are not that hidden as you make it out to be, you have trails, glints and your own teammates, and holy balls, you have eyes and ears!
If you know what a sniper is made for, you would be able to anticipate potential spots for enemy snipers, if you have a long alley or something ahead of you, you can be sure there might at least be a sniper watching said alley, it only takes a little brain usage, not common these days I know, but at least try man...

I genuinely can't believe that people will blame the camping problem on the maps instead of the weapon that you just stated, was literally MADE for camping
cause you evidently did not even grasp the root-cause of that "issue", if you get killed by a sniper at a distance, it is your fucking fault and nothing will change it, read my previous messages, I think the arguments speak for themselves

and otherwise, are tanks now too "op" because they can damage other tanks or what? what is even your point

weapons being used in their intended purpose, get over it, learn to hide from snipers, it aint that hard

think where the enemies might be, situational awareness, with all that in mind I rarely find myself getting sniped, dont givem a chance

Yeah, snipers aren't the only thing you have to cover from
please tell me what else is a direct risk to your life from like 400 meters away? nothing but snipers and maybe some RPG dudes, thats rare though...

[hot drum]

thats not medium range, thats close range, at best

150 meters is handgun range

[rare phoenix]

@hot drum out here spitting straight facts 🔥

[hot drum]

whats my 1800 meter kill for you then, intercontinental?

[verbal vapor]

Anything over 400 I consider long range

At that point there's no way an assault rifle or battle rifle stands a chance

[hot drum]

you have a very skewed defintion of sniping ranges then

[earnest shuttle]

150-300 seems valid for medium range

[verbal vapor]

150 meters is on the upper limit of an smg's effective range

[hot drum]

no wonders, SMGs are by design for close ranges

[rare phoenix]

150m is the upper limit of an ars effective range blud

[hot drum]

a vw golf is bad for pulling loads, oh wonder

[verbal vapor]

Well that just proves my point

[earnest shuttle]

and this makes it seems like snipers are no issue at all which is also not correct

[rare phoenix]

ffs every lmg/lsw starts to struggle at that range except for the ultimax

[hot drum]

cause they are, in fact, not that much of a problem

[verbal vapor]

Infantry snipers aren't an issue

It's the snipers who sit 3 capture points away in a building

[earnest shuttle]

have you ever played zalifbay invasion? or certain nights on valley?

[verbal vapor]

And never move

[rare phoenix]

yeah but sniper ranges are more like
50-200
200-600
600-2000+

[hot drum]

like I mentioned in the messages you have definitely not read: limit snipers at 2 snipers per squad or so, most probems solved

[verbal vapor]

Thats like a band aid fix

[earnest shuttle]

no, it's a bandaid solution

[rare phoenix]

from what my experience tells me and what others have told me about

[hot drum]

stop arguing with me if you did not even read my fucking messages

[verbal vapor]

People resort to dmrs

[hot drum]

thats not a bandaid solution, thats a solution that solves the problem in its entirety

[earnest shuttle]

no

[rare phoenix]

they shouldn't even be on assault/engi but i digress

[hot drum]

agree

even that i like it, remove it, it conceptually makes sense

[earnest shuttle]

if your sniper sucks and the other snipers are good there is nothing you can do. Beside giving classes only to the ones that pick the fastest have always been problematic to ppl with slower pcs

[verbal vapor]

Well sure limiting the camping problem by limiting the camping weapon probably helps, also why have a sniper in the first place?

[rare phoenix]

assault is the cqc god and engi makes things go boom a lot

[earnest shuttle]

and a bit off topic but limiting sniper wouldn't fix zalifbay invasion

[hot drum]

if your sniper sucks and the other snipers are good there is nothing you can do.
if you find yourself in the situation where every single recon in your team "sucks" and cant take down a single enemy recon, go kill him yourself with a sniper then

[rare phoenix]

tbh it doesn't make sense to have bolt actions in a modern conflict like it's pictured in the game
dmrs exist for a reason but every game has them so bbr has to have them too

[hot drum]

mate, you are literally saying that speed limits on difficult roads are a bandaid solution, abstract your arguments a little and they fall apart just like the head you have exposed to the enemy sniper...

[earnest shuttle]

good idea if I could. Oh it has a limit how bad

[verbal vapor]

Well, I occasionally DO use sniper, it's just that any other gun is better than it when I'm actually capturing points

[covert pasture]

Because sniper rifles aren’t made to be used like that

[hot drum]

it's just that any other gun is better than it when I'm actually capturing points
no wonder that weapons that are lightyears more in the direction of capturing points are better at... capturing points

you have no idea what you are talking about, its evident from every little message you send

[verbal vapor]

If you have a formula race car on a 60mph speed limit road, having a formula race car would be useless

[hot drum]

calling the limit of snipers per team a bandaid solution is the weirdest thing I have heard by far

go, argue against it why it is only a bandaid solution when it solves every attached issue

[verbal vapor]

Even with defending points, literally anything but the sniper is good for

[verbal vapor]

Make it so camping isn't possible

[hot drum]

burvy

do you know what logic is

reasoning, too?

[covert pasture]

like camping doesn’t exist irl

[hot drum]

evidently not

go on, suggest something better which does not go completly against the literal concept of a sniper

[earnest shuttle]

it reduces the current issue (while not removing it completely just limiting the amount) while adding new problems.
How is that not a bandaid solution?

[hot drum]

get out of your COD dreams man

[covert pasture]

Little bird buff

[verbal vapor]

Well, it's a game where people are trying to have fair and equal fights

[covert pasture]

Where in the game description does it say that

[verbal vapor]

Imagine if someone challenges you to a fist fight and they pull out a glock and shoot you before you can even attack them

[covert pasture]

I don’t remember reading that

[hot drum]

even in the beginning, you claim that snipers are a gigantic issue, can you prove it? do you have any data that suggest they are a big issue? I none... and if you have none, they are not a problem before you can prove it

"they kill me" is not valid data

[hot drum]

no, it is not

[verbal vapor]

It's a bigger issue in this game than in literally most other games

[hot drum]

classes have ad and disadvantages

[earnest shuttle]

[hot drum]

ok and where is the evidence for this claim?

[earnest shuttle]

have you seen the amount of posts/msgs complaining about snipers?

[crystal rampart]

Bro doesn't know what a fucking sniper is

[verbal vapor]

Take a look at even

Phantom forces

☠️

[crystal rampart]

If you wanna rp as solid snake, don't use a sniper rifle

[hot drum]

that is not an argument, if you have 10 people complaining about the noise of a river, is the river noise now a big issue? no, because you not seen how many people are actually fine with the noise of the river

[crystal rampart]

Ah yes. Roblox. The pinnacle of game design

[ocean anchor]

Phantom Forces map are really small (and well designed compared to BBR)

[hot drum]

is this not taught in school anymore

[verbal vapor]

Map design in that game helps with the issue, but the main thing is that snipers can't just sit in the corner of the map because at that point the bullet doesn't do that much damage

[crystal rampart]

This Gen alpha skibidi has NEVER played battlefield in his LIFE

[hot drum]

"the buildings of ancient rome are still standing today, they must be of better build quality than ours today" is not a valid argument, because you do not know the amount of roman buildings that collapsed

thats basic logic guys, come on

[verbal vapor]

I only play this game because I stopped playing bf4

[crystal rampart]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about what this game is supposed to be

It's not fucking CoD

[verbal vapor]

Went from phantom forces to the best battlefields

[hot drum]

@verbal vapor no other evidence man? have I scared you off with logic and nukeing of your non-arguments?

[earnest shuttle]

if you have a bunch of ppl complaining about the snipers almost every game, lots of msgs on social media saying it and can see that 50% of the ppl pick sniper as it's the only class worth playing in some lobbies there definitely is a sniper issue

[hot drum]

dont challenge me if you have nothing on hand

[hot drum]

read the message again

[verbal vapor]

Evidence for why camping is a problem?

[crystal rampart]

🤓 "best battfields" says bf4

[hot drum]

i cant believe it

[verbal vapor]

Bf3 and bf4 were the best

[crystal rampart]

3 and bad company yes

[crystal rampart]

After 3 meh

[earnest shuttle]

so you are saying that having 100+ snipers on some maps doesn't mean there is sth wrong with it?

[hot drum]

I have literally suggested limiting the amount of snipers.....

[covert pasture]

apply that logic to assault or medic

[verbal vapor]

Well it might also have to do with the fact that everyone's too shy to actually play infantry

[earnest shuttle]

you are mixing things

[verbal vapor]

The game doesn't seem like the videos made on it

[crystal rampart]

Look if you have an issue with a bunch of snipers in your games, pick up a damn rifle and shoot back at them

[crystal rampart]

Yes cause videos always represent the truth

[earnest shuttle]

assault is literally the class that should be played the most, nobody complaints about it and I rarely see lobbies with lots of assaults

[verbal vapor]

Look, I'm a self respecting person, and I would never ruin my conscience by camping like a scumbag

[verbal vapor]

Most of them are from 5 months ago

[hot drum]

"look at all those people complaining man", well, do you know the number of people not complaining? no, you do not

we have 3 sets, p is a set of all players, c is the a of all people complaining, nc is a set of people not complaining, we can roughly estimate how large |c|, thats it, if |c| = 10, is that of any value? no, |c|/|p| could be between 0 and 1, useless metric

[crystal rampart]

Tf u mean camping? If you're not moving from sniping angle to sniping angle, you're just a shit sniper with bad positioning

[earnest shuttle]

so just become part of them instead of fixing the problem

[crystal rampart]

You aren't playing against ai. Think, Burv, Think!

[verbal vapor]

Thats infantry sniping, which other guns are better at, so there's no point in a sniper for close range

[crystal rampart]

How? You're actively getting rid of snipers for your team to clear a path

[hot drum]

so there's no point in a sniper for close range
correct, snipers are not to be used at close range

[verbal vapor]

It would be a percentage, yes do you expect the people complaining to be MORE than the amount of people who play the game?

[earnest shuttle]

by increasing the lobbies sniper count and being forced to play a different class

[crystal rampart]

No fucking shit. Only a dumbass uses a bolt action scoped rifle at close range

[verbal vapor]

Thats exactly why I don't use snipers at close to medium ranges

[hot drum]

"amount of people on <insert social media>" has never been and will never be an argument that should be taken into account, social media platforms (especially reddit) are often hugely inflated in their perceived amount of players

[crystal rampart]

"Forced" no one's forcing you to do shit. I just gave you one solution. It's a team based game. Figure shit out

[verbal vapor]

But also I'm not going to ruin everyone's fun by camping

[covert pasture]

Exaggeration

[earnest shuttle]

...

[covert pasture]

Not every player cares about the snipers

Or whoever’s camping

[hot drum]

in fact, little people do

[verbal vapor]

I think battlebit has a definitive player count

[crystal rampart]

"Camping" is the dumbest fucking term for this game. You literally build emplacement and barricades. The fuck you think those are for? Decoration?

[verbal vapor]

Cover

[earnest shuttle]

where did you get that fact?

[hot drum]

if you know how to play a shooter game like battlebit, the enemy snipers are not often of a concern... and if you get killed by them, you have not covered yourself (in most situations)

[covert pasture]

Yes, I made domes and towers out of them that serve no tactical purpose

[verbal vapor]

Snipers only need you to stop moving for just 1 second to take a shot

[hot drum]

if the snipers would be that big of a deal, there would be people complaining in the ingame chat for example, that happened after the audio crack update which was indeed a bigger issue, I have in all my playtime not consciously encountered a single complaint in game about the snipers being sniping

[verbal vapor]

They can even shoot you while moving

[crystal rampart]

Not every shot hits

[covert pasture]

and you can dodge them/make it harder for them to hit you

[hot drum]

have you thought of not stopping to move when you are widely exposed? come on dude, do some thinking on your own, you are obviously not mentalled deranged

[earnest shuttle]

are u stupid? that's literally what I said a few msgs above that happens every second game I play

[crystal rampart]

Plus you can wear helmets that protect you from dying to a 1 shot headshot

[verbal vapor]

Its really hard to take in surroundings when you're shaking every where

[covert pasture]

Only on the slowest class in the game

[crystal rampart]

Then turn screen shake off?

[verbal vapor]

Covering from other infantry is an opportunity

[verbal vapor]

Like zigzag shaking

Hard to see other people when your surroundings are constantly changing

[crystal rampart]

Ok then hide in buildings scared of glints in the distance I guess 🤷

[hot drum]

if we assume we are both not exaggerating things, that would be a very weird coincedence ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[covert pasture]

Did I say that mattered

[crystal rampart]

If ur just aimlessly running around like a chicken, no shit ur head gets popped

[hot drum]

@crystal rampart have you seen people complaining widely in the ingame chat about snipers being a huge issue?

[crystal rampart]

? I havent

[hot drum]

@covert pasture have you seen people complaining widely in the ingame chat about snipers being a huge issue?

[crystal rampart]

I'm saying this guy is dumb for saying it

[covert pasture]

No not really

[hot drum]

okay, thats 3 out of 1

[earnest shuttle]

makes this look kind funny

[hot drum]

that would be a very very weird coincedence now

[verbal vapor]

Well it helps when jumping and running erradically, but it doesn't help too much when fighting the much bigger issue that is other infantry

[hot drum]

I could ask even more

[proper swallow]

I just wanna say hello and tell that it would be great if trail after shot will be visible max 1sec

[earnest shuttle]

what server are u playing on?

[hot drum]

on random servers

[earnest shuttle]

EU na?

[hot drum]

EU

[crystal rampart]

I don't even know what's being argued anymore

Are we saying snipers shouldn't have sniper rifles?

[hot drum]

it would be very helpful if we could get some actual data

but that is to be awaited

[earnest shuttle]

cuz im honestly not exaggerating when I say I see it every other game

[covert pasture]

absolutely 👍👍👍

[crystal rampart]

What's crazy is that all the classes have multiple groups of weapons available to them, including recon

[earnest shuttle]

a class played per map statistic would be very nice

[crystal rampart]

If you wanna play the sniper class and play the objective, use a dmr

[verbal vapor]

DMRs are pretty good at everything but extremely close range

[crystal rampart]

That's what a sidearm and explosives are for

[verbal vapor]

Side arms genuinely suck

[covert pasture]

Sidearm isn’t sustainable

[verbal vapor]

They take like 3 seconds to pull out

[earnest shuttle]

not all of them

[crystal rampart]

Thats why they call it a "backup"

[verbal vapor]

It's not very helpful when the TTK in this game is like 0.1 seconds

[earnest shuttle]

you can totally defend yourself with a glock or unica for example

[crystal rampart]

Hit ur shots with the unica and you have a pocket rocket

[verbal vapor]

Generally side arms are worse than smg's or assault rifles

[covert pasture]

Yes, however if it’s being used in cqc (objective) primarily and runs out of ammo quickly it just isn’t the best weapon choice for that situation

Which brings the point that recon aren’t meant to be playing objective

[earnest shuttle]

you can still win a ton of fights with them

[crystal rampart]

Exactly

[verbal vapor]

Well that's just hoping your opponent sucks at the game

[crystal rampart]

But some people want to be crazy

[hot drum]

To state the facts:

• sniper seemingly not that big of an issue as some make them out ot be
• bullet velocity of snipers to high, should be adjusted by x * 0.6
• snipers are useless in close range combat --> by design
• the further you are away, the more effective a sniper gets --> by design
• snipers are good at 1 thing and 1 thing only: killing at a distance, huge disadvanteges in every other aspect
• "snipers are supposed to be used for camping" --> this is also, surprinsingly, by design
• medium range is definitely not at 150, maybe 250 or so, not at 150 though, thats not medium range
• SMGs useless against snipers at medium distance? Obviously, use the guns in scenarios where they should be used

if you plan to argue against those, better have arguments with sound reasoning and not just thats not true

[earnest shuttle]

seems like a lot of them do then

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hot drum]

anyone who is categorically against these facts is mentally deranged

[crystal rampart]

The thing is, on the urban maps with lots of windows, medium to close range sniping is MORE then possible, it's fun

[crystal rampart]

Pin plx

[earnest shuttle]

do you consider 250 medium range in general or medium range in terms of sniper?

[hot drum]

in terms of sniper, the handgun definition of medium range is not to be transferred to a sniper rifle, very different weapon systems

250 is long range for a pistol imo

[earnest shuttle]

my 150 was medium range in general

[verbal vapor]

I don't get why snipers do more damage at long range

It makes no sense

[crystal rampart]

This is why you test your equipment

[covert pasture]

balancing

[crystal rampart]

You thinking they do LESS based on distance is crazy

[verbal vapor]

The bullet gets deadlier the more distance it travels

[hot drum]

likely to reward hits at far ranges, it would be very annoying to pump out hitmarkers at 800 meters, its already hard enough to hit to begin with

[crystal rampart]

Velocity

[earnest shuttle]

to prevent close quarter one hits while still keeping them usable in long ranges

[hot drum]

that... makes no sense lol

[verbal vapor]

That should make sense

[hot drum]

velocity only decreases on exiting the barrel

[verbal vapor]

The further a bullet travels the less velocity it has

[crystal rampart]

Secretly, all the guns in this game are made by the company that created the gyrojet pistol

And instead of bullets, it's tiny rockets

🚀

[verbal vapor]

Also for some reason taking a sniper round point blank won't even kill

[earnest shuttle]

so you want them to one hit in close combat but not from a distance?

[hot drum]

heck, lets downgrade sniper bullets to amraams, that would make them slower

[crystal rampart]

I just want Gore in this game so it's less roblox-y

[verbal vapor]

It's more low poly

[covert pasture]

game =/= real life
stuff like snipers dont act like they typically would irl (damage curve)
accept it and move on

[crystal rampart]

I just don't like hearing kids call me slurs

It's kinda annoying

[verbal vapor]

Yet you say camping exists in real life so it exists ingame

[hot drum]

likely to reward hits at far ranges, it would be very annoying to pump out hitmarkers at 800 meters, its already hard enough to hit to begin with
as I said, its unrealistic but I understand why

[hot drum]

cause thats not a little caveat of something, thats the entire concept of a recon

[crystal rampart]

Where's the tents, ans the campfire, and smores in this game?

[verbal vapor]

Yea so the devs literally want you to snipe from your spawn

[covert pasture]

not every aspect of real life is mimicked in bbr but plenty of things are

[verbal vapor]

"Camping" not camping

[hot drum]

sure, cars in this game might be a little fast when their counterparts in real life might be slower or something
that does not mean though the cars in battlebit could fly or something

[crystal rampart]

Gl with that thru all those trees

[rare phoenix]

omg imagine if people had a working brain

[hot drum]

if so, wheres the problem, you have plenty of cover from their spawn to even the middle of a map

[crystal rampart]

Bro thinks this is cod and he can do trickshots at 2 paces

[verbal vapor]

Well you can't always stay in a cover perpendicular to the sniper

[hot drum]

or just record a match or two where the snipers are "much of a problem", upload it to youtube and I will tell you why they are a problem for you

[verbal vapor]

Sometimes u have to cover from other people

[hot drum]

man dont behave dumber than you are

[crystal rampart]

Fr, I think this is just a personal issue of you not knowing how to deal w/ snipers

[rare phoenix]

for fkn real 💀

[hot drum]

its painful if I have to explain every little aspect of "search for cover" to you, every little thing you do not take into account from the get-go paints you more and more as a person which has no idea what you are talking about

[verbal vapor]

Ive legitimately seen someone in my game do that

[hot drum]

I for example should not be required to explain to you why trees can be used for cover, and i am not talking about standing behind them

[crystal rampart]

You fundamentally don't understand the difference between being in cover and, as you put it, "camping"

[verbal vapor]

If it was so easy to hide from snipers, nobody would use it

[hot drum]

I do not know anymore if you are serious or not burvy, but get help if you are not

[earnest shuttle]

[hot drum]

idk man, drop gaming for a little and go to school

[crystal rampart]

Makes sense, Jojo pfp

[verbal vapor]

Which Jojo character?

[crystal rampart]

Idfk

[hot drum]

thats just.. thats, im speechless

[verbal vapor]

Oh right it isn't a Jojo character cuz it doesn't exist

[crystal rampart]

Bro pinged himself 💀

[hot drum]

ok burvy, look, read these letters I have written down here
it is easy to hide from snipers, very easy even, you just have to know how

[verbal vapor]

Well yes thats most of the time

But when you do get killed by an enemy you can't reach, it's really annoying

[verbal vapor]

Mate I should be criticising you about not having an original pfp

[crystal rampart]

Ok now your being plant-ist

[earnest shuttle]

this discussion is derailing quite a lot now

[covert pasture]

should i hop on bbr and count the amount of times i die to a sniper in an 1-hour period when playing as assault

[hot drum]

lets assume you peek over this little hill and you will be shot at by the sniper, where would you try to hide?

[crystal rampart]

Frfr

[verbal vapor]

Depends on your server

[covert pasture]

NA official

[hot drum]

you have 2 options, either you stay behind the peak of the mountain, or, you take a risk and run to the wall you see there, see, you have officially hidden yourself from a sniper

[earnest shuttle]

you don't need to die a lot to them for them to be good tho

[rare phoenix]

"omg i can't kill the smg mf because he moves through my bullets and then spawns on my flank to kill half my team"
-as val with a bit of flanking knowledge and some movement

[crystal rampart]

Where are you having this problem that it's so bad you need the GAME to fix it for you?

[verbal vapor]

Well, imagine if the sniper was on the side

[hot drum]

whats "the" side?

[verbal vapor]

Its also partly the players

[crystal rampart]

Tell me the server, the map, the game mode, the fucking situation

Break it down for me

[verbal vapor]

Instead of facing directly at the wall, the sniper has the POV of the picture

[hot drum]

dude

mentalhealthhotline org/

get it

[verbal vapor]

You see the side of the wall

[hot drum]

we are obviously inside a 2D scenario

man

[verbal vapor]

Well you can't always be in a cover perpendicular to the sniper

[hot drum]

you could build this dude a gigantic mansion with every feature he desires only for him to go: "yeah but what if I need to do x, I currently cant, bad house"

[verbal vapor]

Sometimes they might take a different angle

[hot drum]

burvy how old are you?

are you above 13?

[verbal vapor]

Bro I'm 16

[hot drum]

im surprised you made it that far

[covert pasture]

just take the hypothetical situation at face value man 😭

[crystal rampart]

Ah that explains a lot

[earnest shuttle]

imagine there are more than one sniper looking at you from different angles

[ocean anchor]

That explains a lot, time to leave the thread everyone 👋

[hot drum]

im running out of ideas

[verbal vapor]

Well

[hot drum]

i think I have tried to explain my poiint in every conceivable way

[verbal vapor]

How do you propose to fix the issue

Instead of just trying to justify it

[silver badge]

Nah bro, from the angle of the image, I can see both of them.... /s

[hot drum]

yet you displayed complete failure to understand even a tiny bit of it

[crystal rampart]

I'm sorry bud. The only fix is within yourself, as it is... a skill issue

[hot drum]

if it only would be as pointless I would get a complete breakdown video of my gameplay

but thats effort

[verbal vapor]

How is it my issue if I have to constantly evade from 20 sniper glints at a time

[crystal rampart]

There's nothing we can do

[earnest shuttle]

do you have videos of your gameplay?

[hot drum]

uhh

[rare phoenix]

damn if i would've started spouting shit in this dc while only having 20h up my belt...

[crystal rampart]

You must journey into the furthest reaches of the primordial wake

[earnest shuttle]

would honestly be interested in seeing that

[rare phoenix]

just play the game, learn

[hot drum]

i do not

[rare phoenix]

and get over it

[earnest shuttle]

sad

[crystal rampart]

It will not be an easy journey. You will face grave dangers, and terrible fates

[hot drum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3CgxYovgY

only have this

which is cut together to show oki something

[crystal rampart]

You will see unimaginable beauty, and terrifying wrath. Only the measures and lengths of the universe will be able to sate you

[earnest shuttle]

[rare phoenix]

and you will see warcrimes, a lot of them
not to mention the special automatic shaft (as val) that gets used by a few individuals here and there

[hot drum]

for example in this shot, it is completely stupid to push all these guys, yet I wanted some kills so I went for it, then, when my mag run out, I searched for proper cover and utilized that tower fragment which was there

[verbal vapor]

Well I only play this game to relax after my job, it's not like I'm on it 24/7

[earnest shuttle]

tensa is not really a good map to talk about snipers :/

[hot drum]

yes, but burvy obviously lacks a broader set of whatever you can call that

[crystal rampart]

There will come a day where you look back at this moment with fondness, and a bit of sad yearning for days long since passed. But you will have become stronger for it

[hot drum]

like, basics on how to brain LOS with enemies for example

it seems like that has not been known

[rare phoenix]

guess what
i don't have a lot of time either
but if you want to play casually then why are you complaining about getting your ass handed to you
the game is definitely not casual friendly - which is unfortunate
but again, learn the flow, learn the mechanics and learn how to deal with certain things
this is about as good of an advice as i can give you partially because the game is quite confusing and partially because i have no fkn clue what i'm doing half the time
all i know is that it just works

[earnest shuttle]

seing you play valley, isle, zalifbay or any invasion map except tensa would be quite interesting

[hot drum]

lemme hop in and record sum

[earnest shuttle]

just uncut gameplay footage

[hot drum]

surely breaking LOS with enemies on zalfi is harder, but if you play not like a bot you can do it quite easily

[earnest shuttle]

as it seems like we are playing different games on these maps

[crystal rampart]

Your job that you just got cause your 16

[verbal vapor]

I can manage myself in this game, it's the sheer amount of camping I see in my games that totally ruins it

[crystal rampart]

Bro where?

We aren't seeing it

[verbal vapor]

Do you know that one big map with all the buildings?

[crystal rampart]

Give is the blues clues

[verbal vapor]

With a bunch of windows

[earnest shuttle]

Desert?

frugis?

[verbal vapor]

Might be

[crystal rampart]

The one that looks like Germany in ww2?

[verbal vapor]

But I regularly see several sniper glints in each building

[rare phoenix]

frugis?

[hot drum]

you do acknowledge the disparity between what I and others are stating and what you and haro are stating right? the utter difference in "sheer amount of camping"

oh and did you notice, the amount of people "camping with snipers" (:= pc) is directly proportional to the amount of snipers (:= as) in the game, as in if you reduce as, you also reducde pc

[rare phoenix]

jk

[verbal vapor]

It's not limited in most of the random servers

[hot drum]

yes, guess why I suggested it

burvy do you use tiktok on a regular basis?

[earnest shuttle]

[crystal rampart]

Then get rid of their cover with a rocket, or countersnipe, or toss a nade, or go in with a squad. This is a problem solving shooter

[verbal vapor]

Also man, I have my own car, I buy my own food, and I just recently bought back better pc so I can so shi on it
Ive been working since 15

[earnest shuttle]

can you look up frugis and say if it's the map you meant?

[desert mantle]

upvote this post 💪🏼

[crystal rampart]

Got it, don't care about your life story for the sake of this argument however

[earnest shuttle]

or do you mean lonovo with the bridge in the middle?

[hot drum]

not another one of those

[verbal vapor]

I didn't come to play this game just to constantly evade sniper glints

[crystal rampart]

Frugis is the map I said looks like ww2 germany

[rare phoenix]

you have to specify west germany

[ocean anchor]

Arguing with this dude is pointless, he's just hippity hoping around everything we say

[earnest shuttle]

none of those maps would be a map I would call problematic with snipers xd

[crystal rampart]

You say that, but your the one positioning yourself in the open

[desert mantle]

deez nuts?

[desert mantle]

what if you are the guys who doing that

[verbal vapor]

I may not play shooter games a lot, but I'm not stupid

[rare phoenix]

on frugis you maybe get killed by a sniper 2 times, that's nothing compared to the other 14 deaths you already have regardless so 🤷

[crystal rampart]

This isn't an issue with game design

[crystal rampart]

I beg to differ, but that's beside the point

[earnest shuttle]

if you aren't staying on a roof frugis snipers are no problem at all

[crystal rampart]

I do occasionally see a bunch on Lonovo in that one building by c bridge

[earnest shuttle]

city maps are not the ones I think have sniper issues

which again shows that the sniper itself is not the issue

[crystal rampart]

Big Iraq deserts?

[verbal vapor]

It's really hard to move from place to place when a sniper is waiting for u to peek a cover

[crystal rampart]

Then run?

[verbal vapor]

It takes less than a second after peeking

[earnest shuttle]

yep some maps have that problem :/

[desert mantle]

not just one sniper doe, a firing squad from different sides

[verbal vapor]

At least when it's an SMG I can kinda react to it

[crystal rampart]

To line up a perfect headshot? Do you think perfect accuracy exists or something?

[desert mantle]

peeking out > die instantly

[ocean anchor]

THIS, urban maps don't have a problem with snipers because those are better made and they can't camp from 1km+ away

[desert mantle]

run with sharp turns > die instantly

[crystal rampart]

It's not exactly easy to headshot a moving target at distance w/ Bullet drop. Possible sure, not easy

[verbal vapor]

Theres zeroing and rangefinders

[hot drum]

man i have an awesome round to show how you should be playing...

[desert mantle]

zeroing

[crystal rampart]

Ok that doesn't mean they're instantly gonna find its mark. Your head isn't a fucking magnet bro

[verbal vapor]

The heads in this game are real fuckin huge ngl

[crystal rampart]

I wonder why? Maybe cause they're literally squares

That's what makes sniping in this game so satisfying

You can see their head snap back when they ragdoll and crumple on the ground

[desert mantle]

its satisfying that its easier than in other games?
shouldn't it be satisfying if it would be actually hard?

[crystal rampart]

I think your issue is other people enjoying sniping is ruing your fun

[verbal vapor]

People enjoying camping is ruining the fun

I'm good with infantry sniping

[crystal rampart]

Here we go again

[verbal vapor]

That's reasonable at least

[crystal rampart]

I'm not doing this argument for a 3rd time

[verbal vapor]

I'm just saying camping shouldnt be as huge as an issue

Some forms of camping can't be helped

[crystal rampart]

And I'm saying it isn't, and the issue lies with you

[rare phoenix]

it isn't and making snipers shotguns will be even more aids than they already are

[crystal rampart]

And YOU can't be helped

[verbal vapor]

Imagine the instant you peek a corner, you die

[crystal rampart]

Ok, so you get rezzed, and you don't peak the damn corner again

Use gamesense

[verbal vapor]

Most people in the game are stupid and just carry on without reviving anyway

[crystal rampart]

Sometimes I swear it's like watching chickens

[rare phoenix]

then you either got wallhacked or peeked that exact corner a second before
it's either your brain not being spacially aware or smth or you always get fricked by cheaters lmfao

[verbal vapor]

It's not that hard to camp a corner

Instant you see movement u just click

[crystal rampart]

The thing is, they arent

[rare phoenix]

ok go snipe at 800m+

[crystal rampart]

If they were, you could throw a nade at them or spray them down.

[rare phoenix]

it's not "click and dead"
this shit ain't hitscan

[crystal rampart]

The truth is, they're halfway across the map watching an opening, waiting

[verbal vapor]

It takes less than a second

I peek corners to see if there's people

[hot drum]

i forgot recording 💀

[crystal rampart]

Ok, try using your ears next time

[rare phoenix]

and characters move at 26km/h minimum
42 at max

[verbal vapor]

Yes theres quite a lot of gunshots

[crystal rampart]

Footsteps are loud as fuck

[rare phoenix]

for reference usain bolt peaked at about 42...

[crystal rampart]

You're not listening for what you should be listening for

[ocean anchor]

Glint + sniper bullet trail 😭

You cannot be for real

[crystal rampart]

The fact that you see glint and still push makes you an idiot

[verbal vapor]

Theres bigger issues like a guy aiming a rifle at you

[ocean anchor]

I can't man, I can't

[hot drum]

now I got eduardovo, nice map for long range snipers to "kill me the whole time"

good to show what I mean

[rare phoenix]

glint
glint
glint
GLINT
GLINT
GLINT

[verbal vapor]

If you see the bullet trail then you're prolly dead

[verbal vapor]

Yes that is a dead giveaway

[crystal rampart]

The glint exists for a reason. It's why there's an entire equipment DEDICATED to making you think there's a sniper there, when there isnt

[ocean anchor]

If you see the bullet trail you have enough time to find cover

[rare phoenix]

then get the fuck down or start moving

[crystal rampart]

How can you say this and still not understand it?

[rare phoenix]

it's not difficult

[ocean anchor]

At this point I think he's trollin, he can't be serious

[crystal rampart]

Fr

@verbal vapor have you ever actually played sniper as intended for a round or 2?

[rare phoenix]

every sudden movement you do extends the snipers aim time by another second
unless they're cracked which in that case they're within 150m or even closer
so the exact shit you want deleted

btw getting sniped at 100-400m is the most annoying part

[verbal vapor]

It's not very helpful it they're coming from every direction

[rare phoenix]

they aren't, unless you are in the middle of an open field

[crystal rampart]

That's physically not possible unless you're stranding yourself into enemy territory

[verbal vapor]

Snipers can take flanks

[crystal rampart]

Ok? Then shoot them

[ocean anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/moving-goalposts-goalposts-changing-requirements-gif-25214446

Bro rn

[crystal rampart]

How are you not understanding how to problem solve in a shooter?

[covert pasture]

game 1: 61-23
map: salhan
side: US
deaths to snipers: none

playstyle: assault, pushing enemy spawn

[ocean anchor]

What map was Salhan?

[rare phoenix]

the desert one with the industrial complex on one side
and the city with a waterfront on the other
one teams spawn opens into a bridge, the other team has a mosque
(one of the best maps in the game)

[ocean anchor]

Ah, that one

[earnest shuttle]

salhan and no sniper deaths? you see me surprised

[covert pasture]

game 2: 117-0
map: tensatown
side: ru
deaths to snipers: none
playstyle: littlebird

[crystal rampart]

littlebird?

[covert pasture]

littlebird

[hot drum]

im here explaining why I move where

[crystal rampart]

tf is littlebird?

[covert pasture]

helicopter

[crystal rampart]

o

[covert pasture]

the small fast one

[crystal rampart]

ah the buzzer thingie like gta

[covert pasture]

swap rockets with miniguns

[hot drum]

rendering the video now, 10 minutes of explaining why I do what I do

hopefully that opens up your eyes a bit

at burvy and haro

oh and might I add: in these 10 minutes I did not die unexpectedly of a sniper

[crystal rampart]

can you add documentary commentary like you're filming polar bears in the arctic?

[hot drum]

no, maybe subway surfers gameplay though...

[hot drum]

@crystal rampart @earnest shuttle @verbal vapor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcsDmUAuoFU

still being processed for 1080p

thats what you should be playing like, roughly at least

move with purpose, not just for the sake of moving

[earnest shuttle]

first off, huge thanks for taking the time and effort to make the vid. What program are you using to add the text?
Sadly the video doesnt really show the issue i meant. Most city maps and the part of Eduarvo with the buildings here dont really have an issue with snipers since they provide a decent amount of cover. Maybe ill manage to get a match today that describes perfectly what i meant

[verbal vapor]

This video shows an excellent example of how to play large scale shooters like battlebit. However, it still isn't going to fix the sniper issue. Also with the play style, I don't like to peek corners like that a lot unless I'm covered on all sides, just because all a sniper needs is a second. I don't think that is something that can or will be fixed, but changing your play style doesn't really fix the issue

[covert pasture]

game whatever: 124-17
map: dustydew
side: i forgot (not important)
deaths to snipers: none
playstyle: assault rushing D

[covert pasture]

game whatever+1: 77-18
map: river
side: ru
deaths to snipers: 2 (1 cqc, 1 snipe)
playstyle: assault

[slate ether]

the sniper is not going to be watching a random corner in the middle of bumfuck nowhere unless you are with a group running around that corner, or you already peaked it.

even the fastest sniper will still take a moment to actually track you.

if you are worried about snipers while moving in the open, smokes are really helpful now.

[crystal rampart]

It's crazy how there's two threads arguing both sides of the same issue, and both are wrong

[slate ether]

as the others have said, unless you are actively re-peeking the same corners, even if you saw nothing before, or staying in one spot that is open to the map on one side, you will rarely die to a sniper from anything beyond 100-200 meters.

[slate ether]

which other thread?

[crystal rampart]

Long Ranged Rifle Rebalance Now

[slate ether]

oh Pedro's?

[crystal rampart]

Si

[coarse swift]

To fix the snipers is only to buff the combat at medium distances, everything in the game is resolved in short and long distances, but never in half, which is by encouraging and buffing the damage distance of weapons such as assault rifles, carbines, etc, it would give more variety for combat at medium distances

[slate ether]

the top speed means those fights rarely happen. and when they do, you are likely gonna get third partied by someone up close or at long range.

people just do not want to sit in place for more than a few seconds to fire shots at someone 200-300 meters out.

I need to look up the average damage drop-off distance for the various primaries.

[hot drum]

However, it still isn't going to fix the sniper issue.
as you can see in the video, i have not been sniped like you mentioned once, did it?

[hot drum]

first off, huge thanks for taking the time and effort to make the vid. What program are you using to add the text?
premiere pro

Most city maps and the part of Eduarvo with the buildings here dont really have an issue with snipers since they provide a decent amount of cover.
most if not all maps give you plenty of cover, especially when you dont limit your thinking to buildings but the terrain also

[verbal vapor]

It seems so, and having a very careful playstyle and a minimal amount of snipers certainly helps with it. However, it still doesn't help with the fact that the only thing snipers can do is camp. Don't come back with the "Oh snipers are supposed to camp because they do in real life" argument because it's like saying "Oh all guns should one shot because they do in real life". The game isn't a mil sim anymore, and camping is just a crutch that unskilled players use to get free kills. That issue absolutely ruins the fun in some servers.
Sure getting killed by camping snipers isn't a very big issue if you're careful enough, but the fact that its actually a problem in this game is an issue.

[slate ether]

my man doesn't even know what range he gets sniped from

and thinks 20 kills is a "decent score" and "top of the leaderboard"

[verbal vapor]

anything above 20 kills is a decent score

[slate ether]

no

my man

[verbal vapor]

40-60 kills are around the upper limit of what i see on scoreboards

[slate ether]

saying that is the same as saying anything above 5 kills is a decent score.

40-60 is average for standard infantry

upper is closer to 100

or even above

[verbal vapor]

ngl, if this was CoD, i would say 20 kills would be a horrible score, but it isnt

this game is filled with campers and rarely any infantry, resulting in such low scores i see so commonly

[slate ether]

yeah no, that ain't the case.

[verbal vapor]

maybe, if you play the game like its CoD, you might get a higher score, but that simply isnt how this game is meant to be played

[slate ether]

what servers are you even in? very few servers ever have that many snipers, and then its usually a defending team on specific gamemode, basically either frontline or invasion.

[verbal vapor]

i usually pick either the 127v127 or 64v64 when i do play

[slate ether]

so first its "campers bad", and now its "play like cod, i.e agressive, also bad"

what the hell do you want from the game then

[verbal vapor]

i want a casual and fun experience that i can have fair fights in, without the amount of sweats seen in other games

the slow paced movement and gunplay really helps with that

but that means more people will avoid gunfights and turn to camping

[slate ether]

you still don't know what camping actually is.

and this game is hardly slow paced

[verbal vapor]

sitting in a building aimed at one spot most of the time?

[slate ether]

players run at nearing 30 km/h.

[slate ether]

not usually, unless its in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.

[verbal vapor]

the feel of the game is quite slow from what i see

[slate ether]

yeah no, you have not played enough then.

[verbal vapor]

nothing like mw19s insane movement

the fact that theres no sliding really helps in being able to process where the enemy is

[slate ether]

mw19's insane movement?

mother fucker that shit is quick but its easy as hell to track.

how new are you to FPSs?

[verbal vapor]

im not new, but i dont play fps games all the time

[slate ether]

cause m2019 is not on the list for "crazy movement"

[verbal vapor]

man you have you ever fought a sweaty mw19 smg player ever

[slate ether]

yeah, its not that hard

[verbal vapor]

unlike battlebit, theyre sliding and flying everywhere

[slate ether]

they use the same tricks introduced in cods 10 years before.

[verbal vapor]

10 years ago, stim shots and sliding didnt exist

sliding is like dropshotting except you are still moving

i can see why they removed it in the newer games

just the concept of it is unrealistic and op

[slate ether]

man thinks 2019 invented sliding for cod

[verbal vapor]

sliding while shooting was very prevalent in that time

sliding in ghosts isn't really that good

[slate ether]

several games allowed you to shoot while sliding.

I believe some had it for sprinting as well

[verbal vapor]

i wouldnt count the futuristic games

never play those

[slate ether]

oh don't count it because it has the things you hate about 2019 in them?

2019 did not do anything new

it just brought back old shit.

[verbal vapor]

it brought back the stuff from the jetpack games

mw19 is the first game to have sliding while still having a boots on ground style

just ignore ghosts

[slate ether]

also sliding was in after those games too.

yeah just ignore that you've been disproven

[covert pasture]

you playin 64v or 32v?

[verbal vapor]

in cold war and vanguard sure

[verbal vapor]

127v and 64v usually

[covert pasture]

64v is a reasonable statement, 127 its extremely rare to not see someone have 50-60+ in a game

[crystal rampart]

bros still at war in the threads 💀

[verbal vapor]

sometimes i do get lucky and find a 127v server with decent action

[crystal rampart]

even after getting a 43 to 4 ratio

[covert pasture]

every 127 i play has action

[covert pasture]

4* 🚎

[crystal rampart]

thx

[verbal vapor]

usually i dont play 127v because its not always 127 on both sides

[slate ether]

only it jetpack games. "what about these games?" no I don't like them, so they don't count.

[verbal vapor]

big map with basically a 64v isnt too fun

[verbal vapor]

they aren't an actual tactical shooter

im pretty sure most of the cod community dislikes those too

[crystal rampart]

server browsing w/ playercount exists

[covert pasture]

NA official generally has good balance between teams, highest team displacement ive seen & payed attention to was +-10 on each side

[slate ether]

not for those reason buddy

[verbal vapor]

usually i see a mix between dead and good servers

[hot drum]

it still doesn't help with the fact that the only thing snipers can do is camp.
it is very easy to counter this given the inherently static location of said campers and if you hardly fail to even counter near-static targets witht he tactics shown in my video, it is honestly a skill issue, as much as I hate this term

[slate ether]

nah it def is in this case. no other way about it

[crystal rampart]

"camping" is not the only thing snipers can do

[verbal vapor]

even if i become literally the best battlebit player in the world, it still isnt going to fix the camping issue

[verbal vapor]

thats pretty much the only thing they can do in battlebit

[covert pasture]

yeah but youll know how to not complain bout it

[crystal rampart]

BC u cant fix ur personal skill issue

[hot drum]

I am at a total loss, useless to spent anymore time in this thread than I already have

[slate ether]

if he peeks and gets shot near instantly, its becasue a sniper was watching that spot. so that means A, someone else crossed it and was already shot at. B, he was already there and peeked or maybe died in that same spot (most likely), C, the sniper has ESP.

[verbal vapor]

the focus should be on how to improve the state of sniper rifles, not the skill level of literally everyone else

[crystal rampart]

you think this is an issue with the game mechanics themself, when it isnt

its a personal issue

[verbal vapor]

its not always that way, and you probably cant read the sniper's mind and know which corner they are aiming

[covert pasture]

bait em then

[verbal vapor]

with what

[hot drum]

or throw smokes

[slate ether]

don't only peak with your head slowly

[hot drum]

build walls

[verbal vapor]

i dont have that many smokes

[slate ether]

pre-smoke

[covert pasture]

run out full sprint and turn back

[hot drum]

you have 1 gogol options to counter snipers man, when will you understand that

[verbal vapor]

thats valid but i cant see much if i do that

[slate ether]

don't run in straight lines

[covert pasture]

see no, hear a bullet being fired yes

[slate ether]

stop challenging snipers in their fucking kill-boxes

[verbal vapor]

they also might not shoot

[covert pasture]

yeah thats always a possibility

[verbal vapor]

you would literally have to read their mind to see where theyre aiming at before you peek

[hot drum]

ok you know what im fed up with this shirt

nearly every fucking message to any fucking topic that has been written here by others are always like this: "yeah, but what if xyz"

stop fucking complaining you deodorant spray and do something else instead of denying anything that other people say

[crystal rampart]

if its this big of an issue that you think the game needs to fundamentally change to make it easier for you, stop playing the game

[hot drum]

holy fuck you are thick as the earth crust and even denser than sgt a*

[slate ether]

its a killbox

stop entering the killbox

[crystal rampart]

cause ur brain is a box of fucking bricks

[slate ether]

you will die in the snipers killbox

[verbal vapor]

most of the map is this "killbox"

[slate ether]

no

no it isn't

[verbal vapor]

the sniper can see almost everywhere

[covert pasture]

not effective killbox

[slate ether]

yeah see

[covert pasture]

yes they can shoot you but is it always optimal no

[verbal vapor]

man the issue is camping and your argument is skill issue

[slate ether]

that guy at 1k has to get real fucking lucky someone stands still for more than a second so he can track, and shoot, the bullet can travel and then hit

[hot drum]

...

dude

[slate ether]

if that is what is killing you

[hot drum]

i have argued so much, I have shown you whatever you wanted

[slate ether]

stop stopping in the open

[hot drum]

i fucking drew a situation in paint

yet you completely lack understanding

[verbal vapor]

that paint image you made, told me how to deal with snipers

[hot drum]

read the entire thread man, holy shit

[verbal vapor]

yes its common sense

but it doesnt actually fix the issue

[hot drum]

because. there. is. now. camping. issue. with. sniping. you. duck.

[verbal vapor]

if there is no camping issue, why are there so many camping snipers?

[slate ether]

the issue is

you refuse to learn the game

and just want it to be cod

[verbal vapor]

here we go again

[slate ether]

where camping is punished

[hot drum]

10 minutes of gameplay you have seen on a map which is nice to camp / snipe at, yet I have not been killed by one of those snipers you mention

they are not an issue, it is your playstyle, learn to play the game, watch the video again and abstract my behaviour into your playstyle

[slate ether]

people who play this game actually know how to avoid the very obvious sniping lanes.

[hot drum]

if you fail to do that: play farming sim or something

[covert pasture]

ive played like 4 matches today
ive killed plenty of snipers (maybe 10? 20?)
ive died to snipers twice

its not that big of an issue

[slate ether]

if you are worried about "camping" snipers

stop going to their very limited effective killzone

[verbal vapor]

the area a sniper can see

is quite huge

[slate ether]

yeah see dumbass

[verbal vapor]

id say they could cover a few killzones at once

and the space in between

[slate ether]

cover a "few" killzones

[verbal vapor]

it doesnt take too long for a simple flick

[slate ether]

a sniper has one killzone. unless he is moving

[covert pasture]

lets say for example im up in my littlebird on the skybox
i can quite literally see the entire map from there
am i a threat to 90% of the map? hell fucking no

[slate ether]

the bullets are projectiles

[covert pasture]

same goes with snipers

[verbal vapor]

they take literally 1 second to reach you maximum

[hot drum]

your entire conversation in here is always only saying "yes, but what if x" without providing any argument, let alone sensible ones with sound reasoning
you are the pinnacle of criticising without offering feedback, if I were the devs I would completely discard anything what you say, why? because it has no value, critiquing something without even trying to offer a solution is to be ignored, by fucking concept

[slate ether]

1 second while moving at 15km/h? you are long gone

and if you stop running in straight lines?