A way to distinguish the person who is firing you from rest of the players in 254 server.

[marsh wadi]

I just watched the video. I like the sound muffling (suggested edits are good though. I even think a suppression mechanic would be cool) and crack effect, but the sound priority really messes with my head. It just seems very unintuitive and confusing for something to be louder despite it being the same distance as everything else. Hearing a gun that sounds like it's right next to you but is a block away feels completely wrong and messes with spatial awareness.

And I think this change messes with the general sound ambiance. I get the worry about players needing to understand where they're being shot from, but I think this could be better achieved with improved bullet audio (hearing one flying past you from North to South, for example) versus completely messing with the soundscape and creating an unintuitive audio system. This also makes it less rewarding for players who manage to get on side angles or flanks. It's already difficult enough with 127 players and the new spotting system, and directional audio would make it completely obvious where you are.

And that's just if you want to use audio to improve player awareness. I'm not saying you should change other things, but player movement being as fast and arcadey as it is means people are always going to deal with unknown angles. General map and capture point design can help too but that's always difficult. I just think it's worth exploring other avenues than the more arcadey stuff like this proposed audio change or 3D spotting. That's just my opinion anyway, I still think this game is great and I love your work!

[rustic ether]

yeah this seems like it's just creating another problem with inconsistent audio levels. actually figuring out how far away gun shots are seems like it's going to be impossible by ear since an ally and enemy's weapons could both have the same volume even if one is much further away than the other. that'd be fine if each team had bespoke weapons with distinct audio, but as it is right now you might hear an enemy shooting at you and just ignore it because it sounds about as loud as a teammate standing between you

I already don't have any issue figuring out what direction I'm being shot from because of my sound set up so this just seems like a net negative

[silk violet]

You mentioned you watched the video: do you have any timestamps where it was difficult to discern relevant info for you (enemy grenades, enemy gunshots, etc)? So far where it got marginally confusing, at least for me, was at 1:16 when the friendly sniper takes a shot and there's little to no audio. But that being said, the audio change as whole for me is a huge step in the right direction in making threats more apparent.

The sequence at 1:04 I feel is a great example of this. Listen to the snaps that occur when Oki gets shot up, then how loud the enemy grenade drop is shortly afterward. Currently in the game that grenade drop wouldn't be as pronounced.

[rustic ether]

https://youtu.be/xT2-tWBnJ88?t=141

as far as I can tell the guy on the roof starts off shooting at the ally beside him, and sounds like he's on the roof, and then switches to shooting at him and suddenly sounds like he's where the ally was

[silk violet]

by ally you mean that squadmate who was prone in the beginning of the stamp right?

[rustic ether]

no, the player running towards the building

the sound of that guy's gun firing probably doubled in volume just because he switched from targeting an ally to the player. that's just incredibly disorienting

[silk violet]

I see what you mean where if this was real life, the volume of it makes it seem like their location is next to the ally that crossed rather than the rooftop we see them shooting at.

I'd still have to disagree with it being difficult to figure out the location of the shooter, as you said earlier. Although it is disorienting (we're used to hearing everything indiscriminately with very little difference with ally and enemy gunshots. Now, an ally that's next to us may not be as loud, which could lead to the disorientation youre feeling), it still gives you more relevant info now. It kind of feels like this is something we have to get used to. I still think it accomplishes clarity

ya it's unrealistically loud, I don't doubt that.

[rustic ether]

knowing how far away someone is is just as relevent as knowing the direction

[silk violet]

but it puts at the forefront what cues I need to stay alive

[silk violet]

For sure

[rustic ether]

if you hear someone shooting at you and they sound like they're right behind you versus on the roof of a building across the street you will want to react in two very different ways

[silk violet]

which is why we had talks on this thread about how far the sphere for those bullet whizzes should be from our player model

[silk violet]

ohhh I see what you're talking about

so it's not about the loudness it's about the location? That's a binaural audio thing

some games have a hard time with elevation with sound too

[rustic ether]

just that someone close to you is going to sound louder than someone far away

[silk violet]

if you look at OW's audio engine, it's very good at distinguishing height, but I dont think BBR has anything like that. Not sure if it's because it's super hard to implement or something else

[rustic ether]

i don't mean height, just the actual volume of the gunshots

it's one guy shooting but sounds like it could be two different players in two different locations

[silk violet]

I understand that REALISTICALLY, if a dude is next to me that gunshot is gonna be loud as fuck, but IN PRACTICE it hinders our ability to hear relevant info. Battlefield 2042 doesn't even realistically mix its audio. ALthough they're doing it with more finesse, they use a combo of filtering and occlusion (as well as volume) to differentiate ally and enemy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py9nKWTQawc&ab_channel=Maxiq'sGameplay

stamp at 2:03 where his teammate hugs the wall is a good example

[silk violet]

if we only had sound, this would be a problem. we already saw that this dude was on the roof, even if we didn't, the fact that the audio now tells us that we're being targeted a lot better we can swing over to the direction and react to whoever's firing. The way the audio is mixed CUES us that they are now shooting at US and that we need to get tf out of there.

[rustic ether]

but you don't know that because it could be someone on the other side of the wall shooting at someone else

that's the problem

[silk violet]

I will say though, there's a pretyy crazy example in the vid that Oki posted that agrees with what youre saying

[rustic ether]

the only rason you know it's that player is because you already saw them so how helpful is the audio

[silk violet]

lemme see if I can find the timestamp

[rustic ether]

if this worked by reducing the volume of friendly players shooting instead of increasing the volume of enemies shooting at you then i don't think it would be nearly as much of a problem because the important information would be what remains consistent

[silk violet]

? the audio as it stands takes into account how near the bullets are to you in order to make the whizzing noises. If the volume gets louder now it means they are actually shooting at us?

[rustic ether]

but you do not know who is shooting at you if you can't see them lol

[silk violet]

I'm

I'm behind a wall

ok we might be getting sucked into this hypothetical a little too much

[rustic ether]

ok, and you don't know if that sound is loud because there is a person shooting on the other side of the wall at someone else or if there is someone somewhere else shooting at you

right now it seems like peple who are shooting at you sound like they're right beside you and that makes it confusing if you can't see if they're actually right beside you

if it just dampened the audio of friendly players or super distant enemies when you get shot at then the guy who sounds pretty far away would at least stay sounding like he's pretty far away

[silk violet]

my point being, I think this is a great step in the right direction in adding clarity to the gunfights. Definitely needs tweaking for sure, especially with how far these bullets need to be, and the general mix, but I think what Oki's done is pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT2-tWBnJ88&t=141s&ab_channel=SgtOkiDoki

1:57 is the timestamp I was talking about that agrees with what youre saying

there was, like, no volume for any of those ally's guns lmao

which looks and feels disjointed

Battlefield gets past this with a LOT of finessing, as mentioned above, and I dont think Oki has the tools or the knowhow just yet to implement it in that scale without having to dedicate ALL of his time to just audio

but again, this seems like an issue to me with how it's been implemented, rather than the implementation itself being a wholly bad idea

[dawn saddle]

What is the point of muffling 😭

[undone acorn]

He wasted time on it and because of sunken cost fallacy or ego; he won't let it go.

[karmic lagoon]

❓

[undone acorn]

#dev-wip message

How much time did you put into this time oki?

[karmic lagoon]

Looking other games how they managed to keep the sound relevant when there is a lot of stuff playing, reclassifying all sounds to a priority, finding new sound libraries for sound crack, implementing it and testing on public servers until I can tell the difference where I am getting shot from without making it weird,

since monday

[dawn saddle]

Bruh what the actual fuck is the point of muffling now its just annoying

[short heath]

The selective muffling is very smart now. Please also try my suggested alternative of scooping out the midrange instead of muffling the high frequencies. Less disturbing/distracting, yet makes a huge difference in relative clarity.

[karmic lagoon]

I exactly couldn't understand what you suggested, but that's coming from my lack of knowledge.

[tranquil ravine]

In very simplified terms he means make the eq like this

If that picture looks weird it's because I did that on mobile

[dawn saddle]

art

[short heath]

Muffling right now is removing high frequencies. Try instead using the equalizer effect to lower the midrange. Somewhere in the 300-1000Hz range.

So not a low pass, not a high shelf, but a bell shape filter

If you cut the midrange, everything will sound "sucked out", but the bass punch and treble clarity is still there. The power and "body" will then be in enemy fire and footsteps only, but without making everything else sound like "cotton in the ears"

[karmic lagoon]

Oh, I actually did something similar to this

hold up

gonna screenshot

[karmic lagoon]

For friendly fires -> +100 meters, I applied this

And for enemy fires that are being fired towards the player;

[short heath]

Yeeeeeah, that's it!

One thing to keep in mind is that psychoacouatically, sounds between 2 and 4 KHz are the loudest to the human ear

So if you want to make something sound less intense, a narrow dip there makes a huge difference

That could be used instead of the current muffle effect too, since it would make everything sound less "loud" (not in terms of volume, but intensity).

It's worth trying out a few EQ curves for the damage effect

Doing a gentle cut around that loudness range on friendly sounds could help differentiate them too, since enemy sounds would just be more intense even in the same area

[karmic lagoon]

So far I did it with duck volume

[short heath]

Oh, you don't need that then. Nice work!

[short heath]

If the gunshots and explosions were made up of multiple separate layers like in BF games etc, different layers would be ducked and would have different dropoff curves to help differentiate them etc.

If the game gets a full sound overhaul, that might be in the cards for later.

[north valve]

All in all, BIG FAN of this collaborative back-and-forth y'all have going on. While I'm a musician and would like to add more.. Kitten's got it, for real. 😂

Nothing I can think of hasn't been said yet. It's iterative! Takes time, tweaking and fine-tuning, don't let it get you down, this is shaping up very nicely. 👍 💜

[dawn saddle]

Surely theres a better way then muffling right 😭

[native gate]

audio update was not it bruh

[short heath]

There's no end to the possibilities. You can do that in a million different ways, it's just a matter of knowing what you're trying to do conceptually and trying it out etc etc

[short heath]

Okay, so I think the EQ settings are too extreme right now, and especially the enemy sounds EQ results in too sharp a sound IMO.

[short heath]

I think it would be worthwhile replacing low pass frequency changes with high shelf gain changes. So instead of low pass being applied and the gain rolling down and back up, have a high shelf set to that lowest frequency that the low pass had, and have the gain of that filter be changed instead. This will be way more natural and transparent instead of the "overenthusiastic DJ" effect

[silk violet]

I would like to add as well: because of the boost in 12k the gunshots sounds very VERY sharp in an unpleasant way, at least to my ears. 10k and above are usually reserved for the "brightness" or air of a sound. Think of the sizzle part when you say "sss". Idk if it's because of my age or what, but I think the boost should be at 8k-10k range, where you would get the upper "rattling" of a gunshot.

[brazen parrot]

so, why are we muffling the voice chat when you're downed, when one of the best parts of the game is the voice chat interactions?

congrats, you've just made it harder to hear those interactions. i do not get the point.

this update was a disaster, like outright worse in nearly every respect.

[karmic lagoon]

#dev-wip

[glacial kraken]

the bleeding muffling is lasting on death as well, I don't think it needs to be that loud while down

[silk violet]

Some people I played with brought up an issue with the gunshots aimed toward the player. Although the gunshot cracks are very nice, some guns sound incredibly tinny, like they are made of plastic. It sounds like the lows of the frequency range are cut way too high. Although definitely on the right track, adding in more low-mids (frequencies around the 600-1k range) will make them feel less artificial

[wicked hornet]

Pretty sure that having difficulty distinguishing enemy gun fire sounds from friendly gun fire while having 50+ teammates fire suppressing enemies with machine guns and assault rifles next to you is normal. You use other cues to identify targets in that case, like muzzle flashes and tracers.

[mossy ridge]

We really don't need more changes for some individuals'poor spatial awareness.

Prior to update, if you stopped moving, you can hear footsteps on grass, metal, or water. Whether it's above or below could have been improved. Separating teammates and enemy steps is making it less milsim in this aspect

[dawn saddle]

Who's gonna tell em

[glacial kraken]

you can still do that but enemy footsteps are fucking loud rn.

like I can hear a step 20 meters + away kind of loud

[mossy ridge]

for sure. its very noticable and its a dead giveaway of your presence which sucks

[glacial kraken]

just used it to mulch a full squad because I could hear all the flankers. its prob closer to 30-40

[mossy ridge]

update is an improvement. footsteps are a bit heavy still, which i dont think has been changed. if enemy/friendly footsteps are at the same level and not given advantage to the enemy, i think it would be fair.

[dawn saddle]

[scarlet bluff]

I've been trying to elude to that without being a asshole but yeah, it's really a player issue, only time I've had issue picking out a player is when footstep audio in close range basically dies randomly. Enemy players were louder to my knowledge before this.

Gunfire basically boils down to people checking their angles and being aware of where enemy players could be at, not super hard to distinguish what is a enemy and what is a friendly when 4 rounds fly past your head

[brazen parrot]

the past few updates have catered to shit tier players that need things spelled out for them. if you cannot reason your way through where a sniper is and require a glint, bullet trail, and a big fucking chevron over their head, maybe FPS isn't for you.

like, MAYBE the update would make sense if it did what it claimed, but it doesn't. it just straight up made every piece of audio worse.

[scarlet bluff]

It really is a issue with people's spacial awareness

I'll definitely point out when it's a game issue, but this isn't if I'm going to be fair

[brazen parrot]

it isn't, you're right. most people know this. this discord is just a circlejerk. look anywhere else and everyone is saying that this fucking sucks.

[dawn saddle]

Wdym i love being waterboarded

[inland merlin]

This was enough. I never had an issue figuring where i was being shot from before the audio update.

[ember frost]

-Feedback for my experience with the audio changes

I feel like this is a major step into the right direction, its really well put together that now I can find where shots are coming from because the muffle isolates the bullet impact sounds and footsteps. giving you the impression of a pseudo adernaline rush, improving the overall immersion experience. I want to commend Oki for taking this leap as its amazing. Maybe you could tweak the numbers a bit but I personally found this to be a very welcome change. Good job!

[still zenith]

same, it makes me feel like devs are taking advises from the wrong persons

[north valve]

This design decision - based on the amounts of ✅ and ❌ votes, as well as the discussion, seems to be divisive.

Could we get both sides to put their reasons why (maybe by replying to this post?) below?

I'm on team " ✅ ", but I don't like ignoring folks who dislike it, it's not constructive. I want to understand why the change that I find awesome is dragging your enjoyment of the game down, maybe we can propose a middle-ground where everyone's content? 🤔

As of now.. there's 2-3 elements that I could see being problematic;

1. The bullet cracks when shots are near you.
2. The audio "dip" (it's an EQ dip at a specific frequency, but for ease of talking I'll just say "dip") after receiving damage.
3. The audio prioritization of enemy fire over ally fire.

What part of this system do y'all from the ❌ team find gripes with? Anything we could do aside from the un-constructive "Just revert it" to make use of the system without adding a gripe-inducing thing?

Let's talk! I want to figure it out! 💜

[mossy ridge]

There should not be any differentiation between enemy footsteps/gunshots to friendlies. It makes things too obvious that certain noises are enemies, which removes a certain aspect of game knowledge and experience.

[civic kernel]

That's easy, I have a massive problem with the shit that is new in the update (sound wise) aka. both the muffling and the audio priority
Muffling literally makes my head hurt which makes me unable to play the game, not to mention it's insanely annoying because at 254 player servers you are hearing muffled audio 90% of the game
Audio bias makes any and all skill useless because now you can just camp a corner and soundwhore the insanely loud enemy footsteps

[mossy ridge]

Update has helped change the muffling. But definitely the audio bias needs to go.

[north valve]

Reasons why I personally like it;
1️⃣ and 3️⃣ are the main things I love.

While I'm aware that 3 sometimes means you see allies shoot and it sounds weird because they're closer than an enemy, yet sound less loud.. I feel like I've been able to use sound as my main information source better than in the past.

If I hear a muffled sound and quickly turn towards it only to see a big rock, I can instinctively know that it's 1) An enemy, because allies are quieter. 2) Occluded behind an object, so logically behind the rock makes sense.

This is all with audio-only, mind you. No visual cues, 3d spotting or map marker needed.

I can imagine this being a HUGE boon to someone who's bad at recognizing visual cues, but has great hearing and instinct on the audio front!

1️⃣ has added a lot of intensity to the game. Before, I used to feel barely anything while being shot. Sure I'd engage and fight back, but I didn't get the "HOOOO SHIT I'M GETTING SHOT AT, DUCK AND COVER, RUN, SHOOT BACK, AAAA!" moments I get now. It's been my single favourite addition audio-wise. It's intense, it's logical, it's immersive as frick and it adds a lot of OOMPH to enemy fire, I love it. 💜

As a side note; I've seen people say that it "sounds like star wars" but when I stopped in the middle of a fight and focused on it... not really? I don't hear it that way? I could hear the difference between subsonic and supersonic ammo, people might just expect to hear supersonic cracks all the time but a LOT of people play suppressors on their guns, so the cracks being less present makes sense to me.

As for 2️⃣ (which I think might be the main gripe for folks since it's so drastically different than we're used to), I feel like the more Oki iterates and tones it down, the better it'll feel.

For now, I'd say it's too intense. I got used to it already and I do alright with the resulting sound it makes with it's dip in the mid-range frequencies, but I can understand if folks don't want to stay in a downed state, because it can get grating on the ears to sit for 20-30s+ hearing muffled audio.

I'd just leave it to the usual "dips when you get hurt" method. If you go down, it could dip for 3s instead of the 1.5-2s it does when you're alive? Just to emphasize you're essentially dead and got hit for all your HP?

But yeah, I'd tone it down a bit. It's better when it's subtle. 👍

I've not heard the footstep thing myself.. the footsteps have been rather.. on-and-offish?

Sometimes I'll stand still and listen, and I hear one or two steps, sometimes loud as hell, sometimes barely audible, it feels like the footsteps aren't playing properly for me, I'll watch an allied squad pass by and make zero noise like they're ninjas tiptoeing.. and then there'll be 3-4 footsteps LOUD AS HELL like someone's STOMPING on crunchy leaves lmao

They seem inconsistent. 😅

I doubt that's a design thing.. feels more like an impact of polishing up the audio system sadly

[karmic lagoon]

Footsteps has been a pain to adjust, the adjusted settings fit one situation to another. That's why sometimes it sounds ok and sometimes out of it's the place. And that's generally happening due to player density changes around you, one time barely anyone around you, sometime, everyone is around you.

[north valve]

Thanks, fair point for hearing the muffled audio a lot. I do feel like it's a huge detractor to people staying in a revivable state since it's so intense!

[civic kernel]

From my experience, the footsteps were perfectly fine BEFORE this update. The only problem I sometimes had was figuring out how high or low they are in some buildings but they were perfectly fine. Yes, when you have 100+ people around you distinguishing every single footstep wasn't really possible, but then again people don't play BB to soundwhore. There is Tarkov for that.
Now, It's a complete, indistinguishable mess.

[karmic lagoon]

'From my experience'

Have you watched someone who played game first time and quit after 30 minute because it's mess of audio, directional sounds, die, spawn, die spawn, because the guy has no idea what's happening around them.

[civic kernel]

Yeah, well, when you take feedback from people who never played FPS shooters before you get mess like we have now, where all the "audio helps" are just destroying the game

[karmic lagoon]

who never played FPS shooters?

anyway.

[civic kernel]

Your own dev team says "skill issue" on legitimate problems
why are the one percenters suddenly so important

[rustic ether]

you can definitely go too far in the opposite direction where audio is making it harder for new players, imagine how someone who just picked up the game would react to people shooting them the instant they come around the corner because they could hear their footsteps

i have seen a ton of people just doing that since the patch dropped and even from someone with close to 200 hours in game it's really frustrating to deal with, i can't imagine what i'd think if i had just started

[civic kernel]

nobody who played FPS game before had problems with figuring out where the enemies are or where they are getting shot from (and if they did they trained in lower pop servers), but suddenly the newest of new FPS players are the target audience
tells you a lot about the player retention when Oki now has to scoop the bottom of the barrel

[rustic ether]

tons of people have had trouble figuring out where they're being shot from, especially wrt verticality since humans aren't naturally inclined to look up. standing on a roof and shooting dudes below you for 30 minutes before someone figured out where you were was one of the funniest passtimes in planetside 2

[civic kernel]

that's idiocy, not it being hard to figure out

roofs are the first spots I check because noob snipers love them

[rustic ether]

same thing

[north valve]

I think both sides have a point, on one hand just saying "Get good, the audio was fine before" is dismissive that there CAN be improvements done to it.

On the other hand, saying the previous scenario was the main cause for a lack of player retention over-simplifies a very complex situation into "Audio's the issue" when it's part of the issue, it's multi-faceted.

Oki's focused on finding a reason why people hop into BBR, play for 15-30 minutes and never play again. It's an extremely - and I cannot emphasize this enough - complex problem. It's not due to one thing in particular, it's a mix of things.

People who have a rose-tinted view of pre-work audio are also disregarding the fact that audio was NOT perfect before these changes. Even if you got used to it, it doesn't mean the system can't use some work.

Sure, it's in a mid-development state right now, it's weird, it's funky, it's got odd elements clashing with one another.. but can you really listen to pre-bullet crack battlebit and tell me that the audio for guns was "perfectly fine" back then? It had no oomph, everything sounded VERY similar.

Sure, I could put my thinking cap on and figure out where folks were shooting me from, it was usable, don't get me wrong, but it was NOT a perfect system. The arc where people shot me from could've been as wide as 70 to 80 degrees "roughly east", and I'd have to find a glint, moving player or red light on their helmet. Usable, like I said, but not perfect.

[civic kernel]

not the same thing
one is human error in being too dumb to check the most common spot
second is bad sound design

[rustic ether]

a lot of games have had very bad sound design then i think

[tranquil ravine]

On one hand it's much easier to know where im currently getting shot from. Before, I used to run from enemy fire, now I can turn and kill them more reliably.
On the other hand, it's much too easy to know the near exact location of an enemy based on footsteps. Weapons are less distinct and sound like they all have a high pass filter no matter the distance.

[civic kernel]

I'm not saying the directional audio isn't something to work on, I'm saying catering to people with absolutely no game sense by making enemy sounds louder and by muffling everything when you get shot is horrible game design

[tranquil ravine]

Honestly, Oki might have to bite the bullet and start new players in a quick 2 min tutorial run. I've seen way too many comments in game of "idk what im doing" and not just in invasion

[storm heath]

it's not that the audio was perfect before but that it was functional. It gave me all the information I really needed, didn't hurt my head and didn't feel too silly or too intense. As far as people only playing for half an hour I highly doubt it has to do with the audio. The flow of the game and playing in 254 player servers is much more likely, especially when you consider that almost every other fps game is 8-56 player lobbies, maybe battlefield has 128 I don't remember

[civic kernel]

b-but that is anti-fun and we wouldn't want to turn new players away
so we'll just ruin the game so they can learn the ropes in matches

people suggested forced tutorial for a LOOOONG time, nothing ever came from it because they don't want to "turn off new players" or whatever their latest excuse was

[tranquil ravine]

Lots of "how wtf??" on death because people aren't used to how battlebit works esp the maps. There's very little "suggestions" on where to go in most maps. I think thats part of the reason why Waki is so popular.

[mossy ridge]

Perseverance is something that should be rewarded, and updates shouldn't change that. If anything, a tutorial is better

[storm heath]

also the reason I stuck with this game for uh... coming up on 600 hours is because it's fun, it's a little bit silly and requires a little bit of gamer skill, it's not intense and it's not too entirely sweaty of frustrating despite being an fps with huge lobbies

making the audio more immersive and intense is not it imo

[mossy ridge]

I started my first 100 hours with like 0.45 KD. Eventually bringing it up to 1.45 KD through learning and experience. currently at like almost 500 hrs

[tranquil ravine]

Yeah, people don't quit games because of an intro tutorial. They skip them, complain about things that were explained in the tutorial then leave.
Good tutorials don't feel like tutorials. They put you in the action instantly and then give you the real game. Think Dragons Dogma's intro.

[tranquil ravine]

same lmfao

As soon as i learned the maps i got wayyyyy better

[storm heath]

also as far as specifically distinguishing the person who is shooting at you in a 254 player server you don't need to..? 1. either it's 3+ people beaming you, 2. you can already see them because you're in a firefight or 3. you're already dead because ttk is so fast

[mossy ridge]

I barely got my first 80 kills (2kd) recently lol

[pulsar torrent]

sweat here, for me the updates dont change much for me, im gonna farm the servers anyway, its not hard tho, you dont rely on footsteps etc because you already know the enemys' behaviour and playstyle. Its like the same everytime, so yeah i dont care if im deaf because i know already how the enemy is playin ....

its not hard to learn guys

[storm heath]

yeah I'd rather play with no audio at all than the current iteration. I've done it before and will just straight up turn all audio off lmao

[north valve]

Okay Goofy could we please stop with the rude tone? C'mon. I understand you have gripes, so do I, but stay constructive instead of rude. It's not helping your point when you chuck around rudeness for no reason, we have to read around it and try to figure out something constructive out of salt.

RE: Don't cater to folks with no game sense by making enemies louder than allies
Fully agreed here, I can definitely see an irritation where it doesn't make sense to hear one boot hitting the ground louder than another when they're all doing the same thing. I'm not sure if there really can be a solution to "there's too many people to know who's where when you're 50+ in an area". It's kind of.. part of the situation. It's tough IRL, it's tough in the game, I agree with you, I'd just leave it and focus elsewhere.

IDEA!! What about VOICE LINES for soldiers. In games with voice acting, it's easy to know there's an enemy reloading on the other side of the wall; they're screaming "I'M RELOADING!" in another language to your team's. Maybe worth looking into, rather than making your team wear foam boots, and the enemy's in high heels 😂

RE: Tutorial
There's already a zone ready to go there! Could have you queue for the firing range with a disabled no-clip and have you run through the course real quick, then once you reach the targets, you get a HUGE table with guns on it, interact, test guns like the standard firing range, boom.

I would've loved that, actually! It'd introduce mechanics with stuff I can skip if I'm in a hurry to get shot in a real server, or I could have fun speedrunning the killhouse portion and fighting my friend for first place 😄

[storm heath]

voice lines is a bad idea. It entirely ruins the whole voip part of this game which is a big part of the fun and part of why this game stands out. Listening for bandages and following streams of fire visually are the easiest way to find players without completely changing the audio

[north valve]

Fair point for focusing on the VOIP.. it's just something that comes to mind that wouldn't feel too out of place, having seen it in other games and such

[storm heath]

yeah but it doesn't work in this

[north valve]

If anything, just equalizing every footstep would be easy for me, because I tend to have my map open 30-40% of the time, so I'd know my whole squad is standing still / elsewhere, there'S no allies near me, those are enemy footsteps.

[storm heath]

funny battlebit men doing silly rp is peak battlebit

[north valve]

True 😂

[civic kernel]

you can already hear enemy players when they use VOIP in your proximity, problem is nobody uses VOIP

[north valve]

I mean with the new Tactical Squad, I think that'll change

it's an incentive to use mics

[storm heath]

yeah I mean I turned off friendly icon culling because it allows me to discern if footsteps are friendly or enemy

[north valve]

just.. need more tacticool sweatbros doing their tacticool shit 😎

[storm heath]

just by having the visual information

[pulsar torrent]

i have VOIP on but im using it rarely

[civic kernel]

and I already suggested BF4-like comm rose for our mic shy brethren, but devs said nah

[north valve]

+1 Jerememe

[pulsar torrent]

i just let it on to take advantage of it

[native gate]

That involves paying voice actors #nothanks

[storm heath]

I know I'm repeating myself but I really feel like discerning enemy player whereabouts was entirely possible before from mostly visual info and that the sound changes were unnecessary and are having a negative impact on the game

[civic kernel]

oh, I'm sorry
how dare I suggest using some of those millions they made at launch to add features to the game

[mossy ridge]

Only update that is useful is gun shot noises. Footsteps not so much when it was passable already

[north valve]

I like doing the voicelines myself, actually 😆

Whenever I'm dropping an ammo box, I always go "Dropping ammo here!"

[storm heath]

also re: why do people only play for 30 minutes? It's because battlebit has a learning curve and not everyone wants to play a game like that. You die and die and die until you die a little less and a little less after that. Once you get the map knowledge (which is the biggest learning curve given how big most of the maps are), unlock attachments and until you learn the physics and mechanics of what's happening the game is pretty hard. It's a lot like a roguelike game where you have to keep playing to get better and stop dying right away

[north valve]

"Ammo here!"

"Hey yo, dropping some ammo!"

[north valve]

Fair point! I'm not sure if there's really anything that can be done to mitigate that rough start.

I was able to get my friend to keep playing because i'm always raving on and on about the game to him, and he likes hanging out, so he stuck with it through the frustration of having no guns that felt good (to him), until he got the M110 and now he's a happy camper. He just can't stand Invasion 24/7 so we always vote something else and hope the community likes some variety a bit. 😅

And also, gotta remember that what you pointed out is only a facet of the whole picture.

There's gun knowledge, bullet-drop, TTK, gadgets, how to build, how to be a good squad lead.. LOTS of things for people to have no clue about and just head out.

I truly do agree with y'all about the tutorial, but we're getting far away from the subject of the thread. 😅

[storm heath]

true

[native gate]

“Need ammo”

[north valve]

So, if I were to just round up the points made on both the ✅ and ❌ sides;

❌

• Footsteps need work / we're okay with them being standardized and not enemy-biased.
• The game being casual fun is what attracted a lot of folks, "realism-ifying" the sounds ain't it. Keep it lighthearted!
• Don't incentivize a lack of awareness by unnaturally skewing audio to help doe-eyed newbies figure stuff out, they gotta get gud at some point, can't hold their hands!
• Vets of the game; Eh. No impact. We farmin' already, this new system doesn't affect us.
• [Russian accent] Previous audio system fine. No problem.
• The muffle is too intense / too present, considering the amount of time you spend getting actively shot / being downed. It should be toned down.
• Having an option to reduce the intensity of the bullet crack in the audio / "legacy bullet sounds" could be very important accessibility for sensitive ears! 👍

✅

• New bullet cracks are intense, some of us dig that!
• Directionality is definitely better than before - easier to identify threats and react appropriately.
• Muffle with the short duration is a great improvement.
• There's always room for improvement, but it's headed somewhere nice with the iteration going on!
• [Russian accent] Change is fine. No problem.

Did I miss anything / misunderstand anything on either side?&

[storm heath]

a lot of people were complaining about the new bullet cracks giving them headaches

which is also why a legacy audio option is preferable

aside from that it seems to be summed up decently

[north valve]

Added it!

[raven laurel]

how does the bullets cracks give headache?

💀

[storm heath]

audio sensitive people my guy

I'm one of them and evidently a lot of other people who play this game are

[raven laurel]

Audio sensitive?

Is it a disability? 🤔

[storm heath]

which is why the old audio was better a it was consistent and comfortable

[north valve]

I wouldn't say a disability, no, ears are quite unique, some of them are sensitive to different frequencies -- and that changes as you age, actually!

[civic kernel]

I'm mostly fine with cracks, but they definitely need to be tweaked
muffle in my opinion has to go because for me, that constant volume changing is what makes my head hurt

[north valve]

I say this because I'm a musician and there's a certain frequency band that gives me MASSIVE headaches 😆

[raven laurel]

Well the game could have the filters that are on other games. I don't remember the name but the usual :

• Make loud sound lower etc

[storm heath]

it's not about quieter though

it's the same frequencies

[north valve]

Options, options, options! Always better to have options!

For now I can see not spending time on them, though, since it's all WIP stuff.. but agreed with you both even if I'm unaffected, actually. "Reduce bullet crack intensity" and "minimize audio dipping while hurt" could be invaluable options to add in the future once the system's settled.

I'd @ oki here, but he's probably busy and @-ing folks is rude... but please remember this Oki! 💜

[raven laurel]

hmmm. Maybe make a suggestion then?

[storm heath]

a legacy audio option, I've been making this suggestion already

[raven laurel]

Oki would probably need to rely this with the "outsource" for audio or just get a sound engineer on the team 🤔

[shrewd wyvern]

I did like the new audio system, but that does not mean that the vast majority of the blame can be placed on it for the "kill-die-repeat" loop, this is mainly due to the balance of weapons, the speed of sprint and the balance of classes that are similar to each other only with small changes

[stable horizon]

Just checked the most recent videos - Sounds sick, look forward to having it on live build!
#dev-wip message

[karmic lagoon]

it is already live

an update was puıshed this morning

[stable horizon]

Sick, i'll give it a look

At work rn and wish I wasnt now

But yeah, the "crack" on bullets nearby sounds sick, the muffle doesnt seem overboard atm... Just good all around from that clip. I'll see if I have any issues w/ it some time later and follow up here

[shrewd wyvern]

Oki look at this https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1186382536142762044

[unborn fog]

Add a secondary, lighter, white radial indicator for “near miss” shots
For “Hit” radial indicator, add a series of lines. 3 lines close together means target is extremely close, 2 lines is medium distance, one is far away. Something like this. (Sorry for bad drawing).
You could modulate color/opacity for distance as well.

[north valve]

Could modulate line width for distance, thicker is nearer, since the danger is more present, thinner is further.

While I know visual aids aren't the end-all-be-all, they'd be a neat accessibility feature for the hard of hearing. As always, big changes can be put on a toggle for best reception!

Those who want it toggle it on, those who hate it toggle it off, you get less whining all-around and the feature gets used when it's useful. 👍

Tryhards who want to add every single system in the world to give themselves an edge will always exist. They'll use the hard of hearing options in MC to find hidden stuff, they'll toggle colorblind options to make target acquisition easier, it's inevitable lol.

[native gate]

What about directional blurring? Like if you get shot from the right the right gets blurred

[frank garnet]

we already got suppression tho?

[north valve]

It really depends how huge of a blur we're talking about. With the vapour trails, bullet crack and audio dips you're already fairly "blurred" in a sense.. adding a visual on top might lead to needless clutter

[unborn fog]

That would hamper a source of information to give information. I think there are ways of conveying information like this that won’t hurt other forms, regardless of how much.

[native gate]

Isn’t the suppression just blurring or vignetting the whole screen instead of the direction of the shot?

[frank garnet]

sound

[north valve]

I'm all for an "unobtrusive as possible" system as a visual aid for the hard of hearing, Deyen's idea fits that nicely. Nice, crisp, out-of-the-way directional warning would be something I wouldn't toggle, but if you're HOH then you can add this info to level the playing field a bit. 😌

As mentioned above, I think sweaty tryhards exist who'll turn it on too, but that's a non-issue IMO.

[unborn fog]

Honestly, I think (assuming Oki hasn’t already considered this) that taking the perspective of “how do I convey this information to someone who is deaf, or who has bad sight, etc.” may help.
Developing from an accessibility standpoint/perspective can actually help to solve bigger problems.

[dense torrent]

This is where the potential suppression system would come in, most likely. Assuming the guy shooting at you is me (bad) and misses his shots, a directional indicator for being suppressed from that angle would maybe help both visually impaired individuals and the deaf, obviously.

While also providing the information oki is trying to convey through sound currently

[unborn fog]

Anything that suppresses useful information or your ability to respond in a risky situation is not a good solution though. That’s why people hated bf3 suppression. Couldn’t shoot back due to rounds blooming around crosshair.

[dense torrent]

As long as it isn’t too obtuse, it’d be fine. Obviously nothing like that Arma 3 mod where your screen goes so white you might as well throw a flashbang at your feet and get the same experience

I personally COULDNT think of anything that would fit “not too obtuse” while still being concise

The “near miss” indicators are one thing but could easily be missed in the literal chaos that is battlebit

[glacial kraken]

ah yes ACE's pain section. it isn't to bad if you use KAT and use painkillers (morphine kills ya most of the time)

[dense torrent]

Not even pain

It’s a different mod whose name I can’t recall

It would blur your screen in a blinding white when bullets impacted near you, effectively preventing you from properly fighting unless you wanted to risk losing your head

Which is how it implemented “suppression”

Discouraging you to peek by obscuring your vision

[glacial kraken]

...that's just arma.

other than cod, most military shooters have that

[short heath]

I did some testing on my own, creating a basic "combat scenario" soundscape. I then experiemtned with different ways of filtering the different team sounds and stuff, and then I made a video of what ended up working the best:

https://youtu.be/TD4x0WUaj9w

So basically this is a more surgical approach than what is typically done, targeting specific areas in the frequency response of footsteps and guns

This is everyone using the SAME sounds entirely, and then using EQ to do 90% of the differentiating.

This is maybe a very extreme implementation, and I haven't checked it with my better headphones, but it gets the idea across

also using binaural HRTF panning on stuff!

Details are in the description

[tranquil ravine]

Replying to look at later

[short heath]

Best viewed with headphones

[solid anvil]

Here are my thoughts:

Setup sounds in a priority system: Sounds categorized by importance in chaos

1. (distance – close) These sounds are distinctly audible above everything else. Possible Limiter so these cut through or use current Muffle Effect for sounds outside category #1
2. enemy gunshots (These are top priority and are heard above everything else)
3. enemy footsteps
4. enemy explosions
5. friendly voice chat
6. friendly gunshots
7. friendly explosions (Still top priority but not as important to be heard)
8. Sniper Bullet wiz
9. (distance - ~50m) These sounds are only heard when Limiter is not engaged or when the player is experiencing a reduced amount of total sounds (10 active players around you as opposed to 30+ players)
10. enemy gunshots
11. enemy explosions
12. Sniper Bullet wiz
13. friendly voice chat
14. friendly gunshots
15. friendly explosions
16. Vehicle explosion/gunfire
17. (distance - ~100m+) These sounds are somewhat subtle and only heard when there are no other sounds nearby (~50+)
18. Sniper bullet wiz
19. enemy gunshots
20. enemy explosions
21. Vehicle explosion/gunfire
22. friendly gunshots
23. friendly explosions

[short heath]

Ideally this is also dynamic, and the definition of who and what is important changes depending on what's around you. If you have 5 enemies aiming at you, you can prioritize them based on how dangerous their equipped weapons are, whether they are behind you (they see you, you don't see them), distance from you, how much health they have, what weapon you have to fight back with, how much health you have

How big you are on their screen

[solid anvil]

Have options to sort Sound Priorities based on personal preference

[short heath]

Whether or not there's an enemy tank or not, etc

[short heath]

People will optimize all challenge and enjoyment out of a game if given the chance. I don't think this is a good idea unless a very specific problem arises that people are undecided about or something.

[stable horizon]

Trying it out now. Gunfire and Damage muffling is nice imo. Enemy footsteps at some points are SO loud that it's absurdly easy to track them

[glacial kraken]

We have all become daredevil if he still had sight

[stable horizon]

...actually maybe it's just footsteps in general tbh

Grassy sounds be loud

[short heath]

I think the overall balance is too extreme right now, but the idea is right

[tranquil ravine]

Yes! Thank you. Too many people don't see the bigger picture. It's way easier to track things which is the point. The bad stuff can either be tweaked or removed.

[glacial kraken]

the tink or whatever from the gun needs to be fixed, whatever is causing that(RPK as example) and footsteps needs to stop being heard 40+ meters away. hopefuly the next patch does fix the footsteps

[silk violet]

Studio One user? Opinion rejected (I have yet to memorize any hotkeys in Ableton)

[short heath]

In my long DAW history, it's the lnly one that actually feels comfortable and flexible at the same time :p

Ableton is alien tech to my brain

If someone uses Ableton, they're using it to make either the worst thing you've ever heard, of the best thing you've ever heard

Smartest producers out there are doing insane stuff in Ableton

[silk violet]

Not to get too off topic, but no you're completely right. It's the closest a DAW's gotten to being a sketchpad imo. You can get your ideas down QUICK on it, but that also means whatever bat shit idea you have can be made manifest even when it shouldn't be

Studio One's got that built in EQ which is just chef kiss when actually working with stems and recording sessions

[north valve]

My guy basically posted a resume / job application for Sound Designer, and I freakin' respect it!

Would be neat to get some timestamps and further back-and-forths between you and Oki, hell if I could vouch for an "Audio Advisor" role for you, I hell'a would.

Stellar little example, with varied touches applied to stuff. Honestly it borderline sounds like you designed the ear-pro in Tarkov, with what you're showing. 😆

Good stuff! 👍

[north valve]

Also.. could I request a 10 hour version of this for sleeping purposes please? Thanks. 😌

[mossy ridge]

Footsteps should not have any bias. Whether it's enemies or friendlies it should be the same.

[daring kelp]

maybe if you get hit a small flash on the screen in the rough direction where the shooter hit you from

[mossy ridge]

It's not hard to see the damage indicator. No change is needed

[daring kelp]

well then i guess only option is neon sign or flashing leds on soldiers

[short heath]

They're already talking to studios to do their sound proper, So they wouldn't have a need for me :p

But if I can help tide them over until that studio's work is done, then I'd be happy to have helped out

[short heath]

"ASMR distant combat recording from Ukraine, for sleep"

[scarlet bluff]

You'd be surprised as to who actually has the BASICS of FPS games down, it's a small number.

[dawn saddle]

[north valve]

I was half-kidding when I asked, as I genuinely find distant sounds of all sorts pleasing to the ears, and with the constant EQ changes, it felt similar to the randomness of noise generators that I fall asleep with daily 😆

[dense torrent]

When the neurodivergent actually sleeps well in the middle of a war zone because the sounds of death and havoc in varying distances are pleasing

[scarlet bluff]

Literally

[scarlet bluff]

Metal pipe sfx heals the soul

[dawn saddle]

But is it muffled

[dense torrent]

It’s a very distant metal pipe

Ethereal even

[short heath]

You should just join a game, go into spectator mode, and fly up above the biggest point until everything sounds distant.

The problem is waking up when the next round starts and everyone is making gorilla noises

[north valve]

lmfao I was about to say xD

[short heath]

I did another thing by the way, except qith recorded audio from the shooting range, and 3 "characters" on each team:

https://youtu.be/JLzgwVE9-zo?si=YsZ49gxCQiAipfhM

Way more chaotic. It works too though, like most of the gunshots and footsteps you notice are actually the enemy ones

They sound way more dangerous than the friendly ones with this filtering

This is entirely without any other mixing features. Only EQ and a tiny bit of ducking.

This is why BBR needs an in-depth audio implementation. Possibilities are a bit limited otherwise.

[mossy ridge]

We shouldn't have audio bias between friendlies and enemies

[old ermine]

Planetside 2 already did it with the "near miss indicator". Basically, those are tracers, but they are visible only to the person/persons that are getting shot at. And they are visible for a VERY limited time, like 0.5-1 seconds.
Edit: the example https://youtu.be/tWRRCDYrnfg?si=FIBgY7pS7QpvbNdd&t=150

[short heath]

Why

[mossy ridge]

its just too one-sided. i understand that it is current an arcade style, but always hearing enemy first is too easy to always know where an enemy is.

if anything, being able to diffentiate spatially where the noise comes from is good enough. game experience already helps to know if whether the sound is enemy or friendly via a quick map glance.

the gunshot noises are a nice addition to know you're being shot at. In its current state, footsteps are a bit too loud and its way too obvious.

[short heath]

It depends. With my implementation idea, the enemy sounds are just different from the friendly sounds, not just louder.

The enemy gunshots and footsteps sound smaller and less powerful, enemy sounds are more powerful and crunchy. Overall volume is about the same between the two

The idea being that the enemy sounds draw your attention more than the friendly ones

[scarlet bluff]

I was kicking that idea around too and I think that'd be better. Possibly making it so that enemies have different sound profiles entirely

[short heath]

Yeah, I prefer that myself too. The chaos of BBR is too much fun to just mix away, so having the sounds be heavier and longer for enemies, and lighter and shorter for friendlies would help that a lot

You get to keep the chaos

[scarlet bluff]

Exactly

[scarlet bluff]

Question is idk how much more work that'd be to implement, but I think it's a better solution compared to sound ducking

[short heath]

About as much as what I did here probably.

[north valve]

+1 for sound differentiation being done through frequencies/the sound files themselves, as opposed to volume differentiation.

We're great at noticing the difference between two sounds, but when's the last time you heard two identical sounds simultaneously and had to figure out which one was quieter, y'know?

I'd guess maybe if you were doing some sort of hearing exam, or if you were calibrating your headphones or something 😆

But otherwise, I assume we've just evolved to notice the different timbres, pitches and qualities of sounds, not so much their loudness. 🤔

Big +1 to the above ideas though. 👍

[atomic tangle]

What about the crack that very close shots have a la Insurgency Sandstorm?

[short heath]

Some kind of dynamic volume differentiation will always be used in any game that takes itself seriously

It's just a matter of how hard it's pushed

But with the studio-made audio implementation BBR is getting in the coming months/year, I suspect it will be quite sophisticated and high end

So it'll be more like the low end thump and the crack and the tail and the mechanical noises of each gun being turned down dynamically

[north valve]

Oh for sure! I just meant like.. not focusing solely on the loudness differential, but also the sound profiles of stuff

[storm heath]

I had to turn my battlebit volume down so low that I can barely make out anything other than the enemy shots because they were so loud and unbalanced that was hurting my ears

[keen wagon]

I really think the new audio system is interesting but first I think it's tuned too much, people shooting at you make the sound insanely loud. Second its even more weird when a guy is shooting at you with a suppressor, it makes it worse (when suppressor is imo atm still not as good as it should). When it happened at 80m you've the feeling it's at 10m.

[mossy ridge]

main issue is the footsteps imo. its very loud

[keen wagon]

Still hard to know if its up/down and friend or ennemies, because we dont have minimap imo ally footsteps should be reduced a bit

[undone acorn]

I really never had an issue distinguishing enemies running up on me before the change; I'd literally take no-friendly footsteps if it meant the enemies was brought down to where friendlies are now.

Its not like any of this helped situational awareness, had several moments today where I was able to pretend I was just apart of the enemies squad they let me follow them into a building and let me kill each one.. room to room.. not one warning the next all of them staring out a window as soon as they were in.

Stood right in front of them for a solid second before they turned around too. All I had to do was not shoot immediately, they looked me right in the eyes; you can keep adding accessibility stuff but eventually it'll become so hand holding that you'll end up with the only option of making everyone glow, then might as well go back on the no-aim assist and bring back the ESP Doritos too that'll surely make it more fair.

[inland forge]

Current sound is preventing me from playing the game. Everything is so disorted, makes my head dizzy. I honestly don't know why would anyone consider making changes targeting a mode that by design, is a pure chaos, due to amount of players.

[idle marten]

utilizing the compass above level progress bar in game could work maybe?
could have a ping appear from the direction shot from, on the compass.
so when turning direction to where fired from, you can know they shot from that direction, and it also isn't just giving away people too with exact location or anything
🤔

and compass is easy to see and go by since its always there at the bottom so i think it would be friendly way to find direction to go towards engagements and gunfights

[glacial kraken]

sniper detector equipment that does that maybe?

[mossy ridge]

I don't see any reason to make the game easier. If you get shot and live, you have a directional circle to give an idea where an enemy is located. Bullet noise let's you get a general idea that you're being shot at. Pre-update noise was sufficient to hear people approaching but now it's made to be very obvious.

[vale aurora]

easy and comfortable both means easy, but easy that means "dont think" makes a movie from the game, but comfortable makes replayability

no-recoil, no-camo, self-heal, no-covers, one-way-maps - thats about "easy" and "one-click" game
features that increase ways to choose behavior in combat situation - is about "comfortable"

[vagrant sky]

I cannot tell you how true this is. I'm a veteran at this game by now (over 550 hours, prestige 10 but not rank 200 yet). I use the pickaxe a lot (2.5k kills) and people will look right at me and I can see them thinking "Yup, he hasn't shot me so he's a teammate." as I take them and their unaware teammates out

In relation to the original question asked: To make it so that people know who's the enemy and who's not takes quite a bit time played in game. Personally I have no problem immediately identifying which direction I'm being shot at from. The problem is that I know that it can be hard for newer players to do this though as they don't have the experience with this game like I do. The only thing that I can think would make it easier for new players to know where they're being shot from is an arrow pointing to exactly where they got shot from with a new arrow generating each time they take damage. The other things I thought about all have their place in the game and I don't feel like changing them would have a big impact on this problem.

[vale aurora]

lol the reason of that is not a DIRECTION but TIME. Again solving problem that is not exists.

instead, problem is a tracers where you have to use rarely-shooting gun to hide yourself from enemy herd nearby
i remember myself when i start - i lived for 0.5 seconds then die, and that was a problem, direction of the enemy doesn't matter...

But i started to think tactically. Want to look - lay down first, use Q/E to look near corner to hide your profile, always remember what is in your back - is it gray wall where your camo is like sugar for flies, or is there a bushes/trees and from 100 meters you're invisible?

About gamedev community logic this game breaks out the rules of easy shooting game.
Every window. every door. every hole - mapmaker is placing it by way that allows players to detect "place is safe, place is unsafe".

if there's point where you see 10 doors, 3 windows, 4 corners of building and whole city - you seriously in danger.
You have to cover to see one-two windows and then you always know where's the enemy COULD BE. You "control".

And only there you meet the problem "spawn on teammates" when you control the battlefield (actually - your personal view of) and enemy always becomes from the back, from the safe backwards, just because he is spawned there accidentaly

In most of FP-shooter game designers make windows locked, ways separated especially for make GAME easier. Real battle wont be.

So "problem of distinguish" means "how to survive on maps where safe points is one for 100x100 meters and enemy could spawn anywhere?

Accept solution: "play like half-life / quake. shoot. die. respawn. dont think, just take fun"
Pro-s solution: "take safe place, that one, wait here, place squad spawn and resupply, play in defense"
BB Pro-s solution: "take machine-pistol, light armor and turn on rock-n-roll music to play runner style, enemy miss you most of times"

Correct: "modify respawn system, recoil system, make game slower to remove "enemy anywhere", that way you allow counting of enemies in location, and unsafe place becomes safer.

[vale aurora]

So you just create another game. You tried to create

• tournament game
• teamplay game
• easy FP-shooter
• milsim-game
• fun-game

And you get the mess of.

• Tournament game has MATH core. Damage/score calculated in 1/2/3 and armor gives +1/+2/+3, never +0.337123123 or +10%. (Goal - play in Korean TV to help make money to producers, maximum dividents here)

• Easy fp-shooter has easy respawn system and easy scenario, allow to play personally or in a team, and has no win conditions - to make game longer, you clearly understand what you should do and you continue doing that. Win/Lose is not a goal, just a mark. (Goal - attract tonns of players and give no explanations, buy, play as is, maximum sales here)

• Milsim-game - has lots of guns, guns attachments, IRL names, IRL stats, real camo's, real sounds, this is story of marketing. There's a people who likes DETAILS (especially bloggers). They dont want to be pro, but share really difficult things through social network for personally hype of "you cant, i will teach you" or "i can solve it, you - no!". (Attract - bloggers and sofa-experts, those people like to buy extraordinary things and pay big money for that, VIP packages, toys and so on)

• Fun-game - game, that takes you inside scenario and you cant leave because whole team needs your participation, or, like Tarkov - takes you inside PMC life with his storage managment, trading and surving. Its unique, and hard not for skill but preparations (attract players who play game like being in movie, designers, artists, creative ppl)

• Teamplay game: must be slow as possible. Has lot of communication ways - icons, maps, grids, arrows in UI, giant areas to cooperate before one fire-contact. (Goal - attract players of age 25+ who prefers social communication and meeting IRL instead of self-demonstration)

You realized things from 5 different games in one. And you see like "people complaining about game is unpredictable". Yes. It is.

=
++ Fun-game (mass money from advertising since fun game sell you brands inside your own world. Fallout and Nuka-Cola as an example)
++ Teamplay-game (those people usually buy subscriptions in VIP club instead of games)

[dense plank]

I am NOT going to read that.

[wet trench]

is this guy using chat gpt again?

[undone acorn]

I don't think him or Chat-GPT understands subjective thoughts, and tries to apply them as facts and makes his posts super long confusing yappings.

If you can look at his posts and make sense of them, you're also applying your own biases to them and then likely only makes sense to you.

The TLDR of what he wants is at the bottom of the first one, the rest is translated none sense.

[dense plank]

He said that he uses chat gpt

Why he does that I have no idea

[glacial kraken]

translation, he literally told you.

[dense plank]

What are you talking about?

[glacial kraken]

Translation, he already* told you.

[dense plank]

Again what are you talking about?

He never told me anything about that.

[vale aurora]

Any time you point me "you dont want to read" or "you understand nothing" i will mark as "i sad something that is correct". Because i just copy my own text to google translate, set any language and i can understand the sense in 3 different languages. But if you separate people by cultural language correctness/shortness of thoughts, you just prefer yourself or... chat gpt, i didnt sign contract at my birthdate about i must know english at C1 level

(offtopic: Also i know that EU countries set migration policy to have last-year-salary of 60K EUR at least (simple separation, "clever = rich", instead of real life "tricky = rich"), that could not be reached without required level of deception, so EU people in most of cases brought up in different world, maybe you haven’t even tried to spend only $10 a day to live, maybe then you like short sentences "what do you need? say yes or no (confusing decision btw)" instead of "why you think so")

[dense torrent]

Me, a German, who has not heard of that migration policy despite being EU (also yes, very irrelevant)

No one is shitting on you using translate to communicate, people are shitting on the fact that translators suck and your thoughts are difficult to follow as a result of this.

Leading to an apprehension to read your rather long texts.

[vale aurora]

k, guess you understand that different games by design attracts different players, that personally like different game things, once created mess of that games - you receive "distinguish" problem that is not "distinguish" actually.

[dense torrent]

Yes and no.

Yes, personal preference exists.
But no, objectively clear and concise information should still be provided to the player.

Right now, the information is neither clear nor concise.

[vocal sandal]

Can we go back to how sound mostly was? I think it makes sense to not be able to tell who's specifically shooting at your when you're in a warzone

[dense torrent]

my main issue is the steps

I, for the life of me, cannot tell where half of them are from

[mossy ridge]

I think it will come in next patch. Oki said it will be reverted and the sound will be for milsim mode.