#Oki, you Silly Goose. The Camo Kill Requirements are way too high.

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

ashen dagger
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I honestly might agree with you now. With the amount of good players either quitting the game or about to quit the game, lowering the requirement to 5k might even make them accessible to the same percentage of players as they were at their introduction.

stray goblet
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"Good players"

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"quitting"

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By definition, if the playerbase has dropped as significantly as you make it out to have, that means that those left are the most dedicated

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which means the majority of those in favor of lowering the skin kill amount are decently proficient and invested

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Stop contextualizing this as 1) a casualization of the game that "will kill BBR" and that 2) casualization, which in reality is merely making the amounts required for things reasonable, is a horrible thing

ashen dagger
ashen dagger
stray goblet
near onyx
stray goblet
ashen dagger
stray goblet
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You've spewed it in several threads as of recent and gone on to make your own because it didnt go your way

ashen dagger
near onyx
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Not if they cant adapt to a shifting meta, No.

stray goblet
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5kpm but zero objectives taken, no healing/rezing or supplying, IDK i wouldnt call that a good player from my point of view

ashen dagger
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Its not about not being able to adapt, its that the game is growing away from what they want to play. Many of us have played support and gotten just as good kpm than we have playing assault or medic. The reason we dont play support is because it's not a fun playstyle for us.

stray goblet
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Who is they

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and who are "many of us"

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You are quite literally the loud minority

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both here, on reddit, on twitter, in game

ashen dagger
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Probably others

sick plinth
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we have a twitter?

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who the hell is in charge of twitter

ashen dagger
stray goblet
plush mica
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i have been summoned, what did i do?

ashen dagger
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You played support

stray goblet
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you've been summoned because Old Chum sucks at making his own arguments

ashen dagger
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Ok cmon...

stray goblet
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nah

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no cmon will be had

plush mica
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oh yeah. when the lmg channel was full of people crying about how unplayable support was and the weapons were unusable i dropped like 100 kills with a stock ultimax

ashen dagger
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You asked me who plays support, so i told you who plays support.

stray goblet
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I didnt ask that?

ashen dagger
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I didnt "summon him"

stray goblet
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did I ask that?

ashen dagger
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Read that message

stray goblet
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Do you mind going back and reading what I asked?

ashen dagger
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What they are you referring to?

near onyx
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Bro really needed more anecdotal evidence from his two friends like that was going to suddenly convince anyone HyperXD

plush mica
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game is going down the drain, if you can't see that idk what to tell you

ashen dagger
plush mica
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dmr's are broken, smokes are broken when paired with drone ping recons, support broken af and has access to fal for some reason

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what's tactical about me shooting red dots through smoke for 150 kills a game?

stray goblet
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not really sure what this has to do with skin kill reqs but go off queen

plush mica
stray goblet
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FAL was always broken, I hate being randomly chewed by it at 40 meters

plush mica
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it has actual recoil though unlike 90% of weapons in the game

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now it's just supports going prone in corners using it

stray goblet
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DMRs are broken cuz of bipod, they should remove bipods from them

ashen dagger
plush mica
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so you're never at a range where the recoil matters

ashen dagger
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If you arent happy about that you have nobody but yourself to blame.

stray goblet
near onyx
ashen dagger
plush mica
ashen dagger
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Maybe I should have just said their names?

near onyx
plush mica
near onyx
ashen dagger
ashen dagger
stray goblet
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Again, find better straws

plush mica
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i've been having a great time for the last 350 hours of gameplay until these last 2 updates

stray goblet
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I've been having a great time for my entire time playing

near onyx
plush mica
ashen dagger
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Idk man, I have a hard time arguing with people who immediately forget what they say, and seem to be incapable of even interpreting the very words that they typed after they typed them.

plush mica
stray goblet
sick plinth
stray goblet
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and shooting through smoke is a consequence of I'd argue of the new gamemode being very static

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people try and find ways to push and hold and smoke works well in that scenario

near onyx
plush mica
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among other things

ashen dagger
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@near onyx I would like an answer to this: If assault players are incapable of adapting to a slower movement meta, why are assault players able to do better on support than even the best support players?

plush mica
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idrk why i'm here, anyway, bad updates, the current gameplay loop is massively fucked, everyone is pinged constantly so it's like having esp

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idk how you guys enjoy it but good for you i guess

near onyx
stray goblet
# ashen dagger Idk man, I have a hard time arguing with people who immediately forget what they...

Listen Chunk, I say things that are quite clearly in response and referring to highly specific things, and you then find new meaning in them as if they're paintings by Jackson Pollock. That is not my issue. I bear zero fault of it either. You continue to take things said by the majority of people in these discussions out of context, cherrypicking what you think justifies your unfounded view of the other person's often clear opinion, and then complain.

plush mica
ashen dagger
plush mica
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the devs are absolutely welcome to kill their game. they've been doing a phenomenal job of it the last 6 months. have at it.

stray goblet
# ashen dagger Chunk 💀

You're the girl in class that starts arguing with the professor about if the sun is round because he called the sun a "heavenly body" and you thought he meant the sun looked like a human being.

near onyx
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Just because I enjoy other playstyles then pressing W, doesn't somewho mean I'm not good. You seeemly only enjoy one way to play. And that's why youll end up giving up this game. Oh well! See ya! 👋

sick plinth
ashen dagger
near onyx
stray goblet
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Same hairstyle too

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same BMI as well

near onyx
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Would you like to post stats then. Since you care so much? Cus I really dont

plush mica
# near onyx Its mutual then 😊

that's not the gotcha you think it is. server issues got this game hemorrhaging players, gameplay loop is fucked on top of that, what hope do you think this game really has

ashen dagger
# sick plinth why does most people's average go up when they embrace movement meta? even the s...

Actually my best support game does kinda contend with my best medic game. My medic PB is 163 on CTF and my support PB is 138 on invasion (my first support game). I have played maybe 4 support games total. Also my previous CTF medic PB was something like 132, which my support PB beats.

Also also, my point isnt that it's not better to play that way, its that good players are good at the game and them not liking a movement change isnt evidence that they cant adapt to the meta.

stray goblet
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edit_nerd "umm 2.4kd isnt actually good you gotta get closer to my personal kd to be goood"

stray goblet
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actual trash

near onyx
ashen dagger
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Never played bf

stray goblet
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it shows

ashen dagger
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Thats a faaaaat L for you

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L

near onyx
stray goblet
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"i get kills" in a tactical shooter kills dont matter

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PTFOing doesnt matter to a good player apparently

dense junco
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guys he said L that means chris got cooked

sick plinth
ashen dagger
dense junco
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omg i got cooked!!!

stray goblet
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stop posting my stats WTF!!!!!!!

near onyx
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You're trolling

stray goblet
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i sent them to you in confidence!!!!!!!!!!

ashen dagger
plush mica
sick plinth
stray goblet
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im going to report meizu for doxxing my killcount and then burn down Sbeve's couch

ashen dagger
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@sick plinth If you wanna compare my movespeed you can look at the video I made for my movement analysis

near onyx
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That dude still has a better W/r then me lol (whoever you stole that from)

plush mica
sick plinth
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you can try

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it's all that's being played on officials

plush mica
sick plinth
stray goblet
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im still not sure how this relates to skins having their kill counts lowered

plush mica
plush mica
stray goblet
plush mica
stray goblet
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We've talked about this long enough for you to know that I'm not talking about the 3 metal skins

plush mica
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i'm new here i have no idea which skins you're complaining about

ashen dagger
stray goblet
near onyx
stray goblet
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we've gone to long lengths to differentiate between the three "mastery" skins and the other hundred plus

ashen dagger
# stray goblet Please shut your fat face

@lime zodiac I have bit my tounge for a while about the people in this thread. Every time I talk here I try to be good faith but am invariably met with this type of response.

plush mica
stray goblet
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you are mentally incapable of acting in good faith

ashen dagger
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Im sorry you feel that way but that is no excuse for you to insult me constantly.

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Just because you dont like my opinion

stray goblet
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your argumentation is slimy, purposefully recontextualizing people

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you have no scruples and demand respect from those you have never shown it to

ashen dagger
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I dont know what scruples means

stray goblet
plush mica
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idk how yall are still white knighting for oki and the others after their behavior over the last few days. they don't care about you either

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absolutely wild

ashen dagger
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Calling me a twat now? Got anything else?

stray goblet
stray goblet
plush mica
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i mean i'm not talking to you, idk what you got going on. talking to the weirdo who apparently has the devs whole dick in his mouth

stray goblet
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Sbeve likes the devs, that's their prerogative

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I dont mind any changes as of currently to the game, I think they play fine aside from some singular pain points

plush mica
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yeah, i'm kinda curious why. kinda shitty behavior from them the last few days, while their game barely functions

stray goblet
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I would say though that thinking devs have a personal vendetta or desire to insult you isnt really reasonable

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with all due respect i dont think they know any of us exist

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which I prefer cuz I dont really care to know the people making the game

plush mica
# stray goblet I would say though that thinking devs have a personal vendetta or desire to insu...

not me specifically, but there's a whole lot of stuff going on from the dev team that's really got me questioning if they care about the game at all or what's the deal here, idk you seem new to the lore here and i really don't care to explain the last 6 months like some fuckin degen. idc what happens to the game at this point. if you're having fun good for you i hope the game stays fun for you.

stray goblet
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This sounds like a really stupid thing to worry about

plush mica
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the devs obv got a problem with people who prefer the aggro playstyles so let em do whatever

stray goblet
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I dont get what you mean by that

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I play aggro to the point I die trying to push points all the time

plush mica
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i wish you luck good sir

stray goblet
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I happy if you're willing to explain it to me

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cuz I legitimately havent really noticed that trend

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(not saying it doesnt exist or does, just havent really seen that in my experience)

plush mica
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it's like a whole background thing where oki thinks the people using movement are the ones killing the game

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which is why we have the massive inertia thread arguing for the last 3 days or 4 days or whatever

stray goblet
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IDK oki enough to agree or disagree with this, but did he say something about this ever?

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my gut tells me that this sounds like conjecture more than anything tbh

plush mica
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he literally directly blamed the sweats for killing the game, which is kind of a meme because the sweats all play community servers, while the majority of the casual playerbase plays 127 conquest

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like if he wants to make the game a milsim he's welcome to do that, it's his game, but idk if blaming the people playing community servers for your dwindling pop in the process is the move

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anyway, it's this on top of a whole bunch of other shit that's been building for a bit now so a bunch of the movement players feel disrespected and are quitting, i can see the writing on the wall with these untested changes getting shoved live

dense junco
stray goblet
plush mica
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so it's not like they're in your conq server anyway

stray goblet
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I can kinda see this all being the case if I squint really hard and apply intent where it doesnt seem there's been any expressed but

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worrisomebusiness idk bout that

plush mica
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like i said, a whole bunch of dumb shit coming to a head all at once basically

stray goblet
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I have no opinion on this

plush mica
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but ye if you're having fun i hope you keep enjoying the game. i got my 15 dollars worth and then some so w/e i can't be too mad

stray goblet
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reminds me of Phantom Forces when they nerfed movement there

plush mica
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i watched a video of phantom forces when it first got popular and it looked way too fast but who knows

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i'm a special kind of mentally ill that still likes titanfall 2 so whatever

stray goblet
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I love Titanfall 2

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I'm a weirdo that uses stim and G2 tho so pepeLaugh

plush mica
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oof, i picked phase shift and alternator on release and never looked back

stray goblet
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I can see how speedy gonzalaz gameplay can be fun, but I personally dont view the changes as of late to be specifically targeting that particular playstyle

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merely buffing other ones

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like support or sniping

plush mica
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it's more the way they were buffed

stray goblet
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thats fair

plush mica
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support probably didn't need access to 4 of the strongest weapons in the game at close-mid range in the form of br's

stray goblet
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there's always a better way of going about it and def the devs probably could have listened

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I dont think though that this is 1) permanent, and 2) indicative of the game on its way to death though

plush mica
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and dmr's being spammed by everyone rn (not just recons) is something they really should've foreseen when they slammed them onto like every class

stray goblet
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I'm not going to say something as stupid as "alarmism" but it doesnt seem that impactful to the game

plush mica
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it's basically like this right, there's enough people who want things like inertia and movement nerfs etc, that when this current nerf inevitably isn't enough we'll be right back in here with complaints asking for more

stray goblet
plush mica
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and i'm just kinda done with the whole thing at this point

plush mica
past prairie
stray goblet
past prairie
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are you being a hill wookie or what

stray goblet
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I see them a lot on rooftops and the like

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been running smoke almost religiously on assault and medic as a consequence

plush mica
stray goblet
plush mica
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m110's literally everywhere

stray goblet
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the M110 should not two shot

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unless its headshot

plush mica
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it's super frustrating, cause typically you get hit, start to react to the huge chunk of damage and then second shot hits

stray goblet
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ok ok ok

plush mica
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like... just make it a one shot at that point...

stray goblet
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maybe

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maybe

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say you're right about the changes being targeted at run and gun

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IMO

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the solution is to

past prairie
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"make the m110 OHK" is the most deranged take ive ever seen

stray goblet
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and I cant believe im saying this

past prairie
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ngl

stray goblet
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make armor cosmetic

dense junco
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there's a thread for that

stray goblet
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make the weapon determine the sprint speed, IE SMGs fastest, some snipers and LMGs slowest

plush mica
stray goblet
past prairie
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its slow af

stray goblet
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at range tho it doesnt matter

past prairie
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if you want to nerf it make armor matter

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the second it sees armor its the slowest TTK in the world

plush mica
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i'd rather armor just didn't exist tbh, it makes balancing a total mess

stray goblet
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because the recoil settles just as soon as the gun's ready to fire again

plush mica
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but that's just me

stray goblet
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but

plush mica
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and i've spoken on that a lot

stray goblet
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mind you

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the problem is that this will make the game more casual ironically

plush mica
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or, if you want armor to exist, move away from the full absorb system and copy like cs or smth where it's a %dr

stray goblet
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it WOULD help the game in terms of balance, but we'd be moving more towards BF4 or 3 than Squad in terms of gameplay

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Honestly?

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I think the devs should pick a route, and only ask for feedback on topics that are part of that route

plush mica
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the current system is actually what's making support so disgusting rn. they can dropshot and you can't win the dps check if their aim is good because exo helmet takes too much damage to break

stray goblet
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either Battlefield or Squad

plush mica
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yeah if they would literally fully pick a direction and do that i think everyone would be way happier

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they keep trying to middle ground and nobody is happy

stray goblet
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I will admit I was wrong in my disagreement with meizu and a few others a while back about it

plush mica
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if they wanna do milsim, say that, do that, make it the best fucking milsim you can

stray goblet
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I (wrongly) assumed not many people would swap to support to start bitchslapping people in CQB

plush mica
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i'm surprised assault never caught on before tbh. assault been the superior cqb class for months funny enough

stray goblet
past prairie
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yall play in an alternate universe

plush mica
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i dont have much faith unless they wanna pick a direction

stray goblet
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reminded me of how I used to play Assault in BF4

plush mica
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or any of the 24/7 dom servers?

stray goblet
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Wait wait wait

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are you guys telling me you dont just hit "quickplay"

plush mica
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no?

stray goblet
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sacrilege

plush mica
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i put like 100 of my total 360 hours into 1 server kekw

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64v64 dom, fast respawn, bandages full heal

past prairie
plush mica
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also how else am i supposed to play frontline? it's not like it gets voted for on official servers

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it was hard to even have an official frontline server before community servers

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with the entire frontline community coming together to try and force a frontline lobby lol

rotund snow
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if you want to give a small ttk buff to a gun if armour doesn't exist, increasing its damage slightly will either do nothing or a ton

near onyx
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What makes the Scar H useful in this meta, is that its 3 shot potential continues to Normal Armor, and it only becomes a 4 shot at Heavy/Exo. Where as the Ak15 loses out and becomes a 5 shot at Exo.

plush mica
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could just rebalance the weapons which it sounds like they're already planning on doing that

rotund snow
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rebalance everything but in a much more heavily restrictive setting

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and a less intuitive one

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for example a gun having its damage changed from 41 to 49 would make no difference to its performance

near onyx
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I love the current systems complexity and trade offs. Without it, id just be using weaker weapons for the hell of it

plush mica
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people already play like that's the case, the reality is many of the guns are viable at this point. weapons aren't like the release aug anymore.

near onyx
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Your right many guns are viable. and I like them to stay that way.

plush mica
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i wonder how many weapons are actually being pushed out of meta rn by assault+dmr setups

near onyx
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Honeslty imo Scar > any dmr

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scar is too fun

rotund snow
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I just really don't like the idea of the distribution of meaningful damage breakpoints going from this to this

image.png image.png
plush mica
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i mean i used the vector until i hit 10k kills on it then put like 7k on the p90. feels bad playing medic as a fresh prestige rn because it's the ump until 45 then you get the pp19, and then no new smg until 75 with the vector

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and then nothing of interest after that either cause i don't like the mp5

near onyx
plush mica
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i play what's fun

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or based on how much pain i'm in

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i like the ak74 when my wrists hurt as a nice break

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i just literally do not feel challenged at all playing even remotely passively. i control every engagement at that point and it's boring

near onyx
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I pity you. I would hate to feel so limited with that kind of mindset. I honestly don't even think I would enjoy this game at that point.

plush mica
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idk, i wanna push myself. i've been playing shooters since socom on the ps2. playing slow is playing something i figured out years ago

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can be fun every now and then but not an every game thing

dense junco
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im having fun gais

minor lintel
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People like going for kills weither it be trying or not

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If you hate a playstyle learn to counter it

stray goblet
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I enjoy countering your mother

minor lintel
stray goblet
minor lintel
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Touche

dense junco
near onyx
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I can, and I do. But it seems like some people can't comprehend having fun doing anything else.

jagged leaf
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'tryhards' aren't people

ashen dagger
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'you' are stupid.

near onyx
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Bros reacting to himself 😭

ashen dagger
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idk who put those there man

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wasnt me

jagged leaf
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Nah it was you alright

ashen dagger
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Naw, whoever did that is pretty based though

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idk how to check

near onyx
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one more to 200 PogU

fresh stump
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pawg

stray goblet
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pawgussy

near onyx
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Hey it's says that Julgers is here, did he write something before?

woeful acorn
minor lintel
near onyx
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Another day, another victory for the OGs 🤓

sage lagoon
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👀 you 'won' with reason or just being og ?

near onyx
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Respect the Grind, And Respect Player's Time chadOkiheadpatLarryHeadpatVilHeadpat

oblique oak
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me halfway to golding the mp5 (sees 5000 kills to go )

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its really not that bad tho

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5k kills in a week with an avg of 60-80 kills a game

wide topaz
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it was never really about the one or two guns, its the ones that might have more guns they want, but also for the people that don't just go for kills.

oblique oak
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bro my brain must be too tired to comprehend what you just said or am I tripping

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can you brake that down i dont quite understand your meaning lol

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i mean arent you supposed to kill people in an FPS? + do all the OBJ stuff (you can multitask)

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10k is a lot but its not really A LOT A LOT its just a time sink

near onyx
wide topaz
# oblique oak i mean arent you supposed to kill people in an FPS? + do all the OBJ stuff (you ...

you're talking two weeks for one gun. yes its an FPS but there's alot of things you can be doing to assist your team beyond just killing, and some people simply play a more support role rather than trying for max kills. like I said, 1 gun? not so bad especially if its your favorite gun. but that's still 2 weeks to get it, not getting kills with anything but that gun. Being locked to one weapon and one weapon only for a few weeks just is a bad design decision, especially as now its for every gun from the most meta all the way to the pistols.

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hence why I put forward a more stat based system, like this.

image.png
oblique oak
wide topaz
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because the amount of time would just keep growing with each new weapon

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like say my m9. love the gun, but there is no way I'm getting 10k kills with that

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at least not within a year

wide topaz
oblique oak
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but yeah youre right some are gonna be a lot harder if i wanna do them

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i agree some weapon types definitely shouldnt be 10k like pistols or snipers

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but the whole point is to be grind for endgame i guess

wide topaz
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yeah 10k weapons isn't the gripe really

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its that every weapon is 10k for it

oblique oak
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either way I can live with it but i guess many cant

wide topaz
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idealy it would be tailored by the things I mentioned above, so that the time is pretty equal in worth.

jagged leaf
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With most game taking 25-30 min, you basically have to spend between 24 and 34 hours weekly playing

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That's a lot honestly

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And that's with above average KPM

random grail
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Why not headshots instead of kills

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Something like 500 hs are better than 10000 kills

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I'm close to 4-5 weapons with gold cammos and honestly I don't mind if it was lowered doesn't matter

ashen rain
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Because headshots are something you don’t even go for half the time and get on accident the other half

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It’s not really an expression of skill like an actual kill would. Those are intentional most of the time anyway.

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Also hit reg is weird so

wide topaz
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if thats the case, neither are expression of skill.

ashen rain
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I mean, it’s just not a consistent thing

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I myself have NEVER ONCE purposefully gone for the head

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Every single headshot in my life has been entirely on accident

rotund snow
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If you’re using a gun with very little recoil further than 5m it’s sensible.

near onyx
ashen rain
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Yeah, it IS a skill issue because making it a headshot thing would set "consistently hitting headshots" as the baseline skill margin

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something to be expected of everyone to be considered "average", which I don't think is a good idea. If you're good at hitting headshots, that's all good, your grind will be easier since you get kills easier.

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but it's not realistic for the average player

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maybe a seperate camo for it, sure, but not as the requirement for mastery

oblique oak
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the whole camo thing isnt about skill its just a time sync. Idc if its lowered or not

oblique oak
jagged leaf
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10 games a day, but like, everyday?

oblique oak
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even if you have a job thats doable depending on how many responsibilities you have outside of work

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its a grind

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but you do not have to smash it out in 2 weeks

oblique oak
wide topaz
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still only for one gun

oblique oak
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eh

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its definitely a HUGE grind

wide topaz
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so 600 kills a day? 17 days for one gun.

jagged leaf
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game is 25 min on average, that's 250 min, 4h a day, man, you need to work part time and nothing else to have this much time, I as a student have less time in the week than 4h per day

oblique oak
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i probably play more than 10 a day

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WEAPONISED AUTISM

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but ur right its pretty hard if you have a family or partner (probably cant grind as hard)

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i think thats the whole point tho its supposed to be ridiculous

oblique oak
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mp5 is a bit B tier tho so its not super easy to do that

wide topaz
#

yeah but 4 hours is not really a normal commitment for people with jobs/school(or both). 1 gun is fine. the guns need to be changed based on their potential. already spoke of what should be done to figure that out for every weapon. it was never about grind out 1 or 2 weapons.

oblique oak
#

yeah we gonna just have to wait and see if Lord Commander King Oki does anything about it

#

im easy either way

#

wont even attempt snipers or pistols without that being changed

jagged leaf
oblique oak
#

you can disagree all you like doesnt change the fact that IDC

#

we cant do shit unless he changes it so

stray goblet
woeful acorn
#

When we getting gold instead of a weird brass thats the real question

oblique oak
near onyx
queen aspen
#

Hey maybe we can finally get headshot camos

plush mica
#

inb4 10k headshots camo for mastery 🙂

proven birch
woeful acorn
#

Need an arm hit counter first

#

Gotta see how many shots hit their right pinky instead of head

woeful acorn
#

Bitch bot

#

Whos ready for the twitch drop charms Clueless

stray goblet
#

Twitch drop my balls in yo mouf

oblique oak
#

GOTEEEEM

woeful acorn
#

Wowies brass camo has sparkles now

near onyx
#

#dev-wip message

Looks like Oki is actually going to add a skin for for a tree kill(s). He talked about it on a dev stream a few months ago.
So get ready to see mad people boosting for this.

dense junco
#

wood finish skins finally?

near onyx
wide topaz
#

nah it doesn't

near onyx
wide topaz
#

gold does

wide topaz
near onyx
near onyx
wide topaz
#

I mean both of the others don't really shine

#

I mean unless you polish them, but at that point any metal does

final mirage
queen aspen
#

Forget HEAT meta, TREE meta is now in

woeful acorn
#

Always has been

oblique oak
#

they aint forcing you to get gold on all of them here either

near onyx
#

Damn thread got pulled back from the dead for the New Year 🤩🎉

minor lintel
lapis anvil
#

Surely the new ghillie things won't cost 10k kills to get right ? right ?

wide topaz
#

I swear

harsh gazelle
lapis anvil
#

Wait we already knew ? Really, 1k kills over 500m ? If this is true ... BBClown

oblique oak
#

that might only be for the sniper ones admittedly it might be different for ARs and/or SMGs (if not LOL)

harsh gazelle
#

I’m almost certain that’s what he said. Don’t remember where.

lapis anvil
#

I love the game and I have huge respect for the devs, even more as a solo dev, the quantity of work they're able to get done is impressive, but it saddens me that they built a really nice thing like the new camo system with most of its skins only usable by .1% of the players

minor lintel
#

1k kills over 500m is a bit of a ask, 300m is more doable.

#

So if you want to hunt for those kills a bit more actively you can.

#

500m beyond kinda relegates you to permenant "backlane bitch" status

#

And 1,000 kills of that are gonna make me want to eat drywall

harsh gazelle
# minor lintel 1k kills over 500m is a bit of a ask, 300m is more doable.

Not just “a bit of an ask”. That’s actually insane. Most sniper engagements are within 300m. Most rifle engagements are within 150m.
500m is doing nothing but farming long range sniper kills. I’ve been playing sniper a lot lately and still only have around 900 total on my l96. The majority of those are within 200m.

#

At 500m, the number of kills you get per minute goes down dramatically. You might be down to 20 kills in one match, or under 0.5 kills per minute. That’s anywhere from 35-45 hours of dedicated long distance sniper gameplay, which in my opinion is not nearly as engaging as sniping under 200m.

lapis anvil
willow storm
#

all I remember is that the example he gave initially was dumbassery

harsh gazelle
#

I would rather have 1500 kills over 200m than 1000 kills over 500. At least then I have a chance of completing the challenge before burning out or getting bored of the game entirely.

minor lintel
#

I don't think it's insane, just really fucking tedious.

#

And it's gonna make a lot of people not bother KEKW

sage lagoon
willow storm
sage lagoon
#

oh

#

yeah if the challenges are too odd, no one is gonna bother for some camos

#

ok definitely not no one, but yeah it'll be a turn off

near onyx
fresh stump
#

I necro this for America

plush mica
#

game gonna lose the last 3k players before this is fixed

stray goblet
#

the devs are hard at work, but not hard at work

fresh stump
#

Bump due to other post

lime zodiac
#

Don't necro / bump old posts

#

it's annoying

fresh stump
#

I would say that's annoying

#

You locked the other post, based 😎

#

@storm tide this is the og

#

Feel free to read over every argument imaginable for reducing the kill count

storm tide
#

thx

#

oh 3.5k posts, it'll take me a couple months to read and form an opinion 🙂

btw, here's our skin that we all unlocked in 3500 posts, hopefully it was worth it.

image.png
fresh stump
#

Just look for chum and I talking, we go pretty in depth to both sides of it

#

This is the post where I came up with the idea actually, so it's all done full circle

storm tide
#

ahahh, it should be done for sure, immediately! I'm pretty sure there will be players so dedicated to this game, which will justify this number of kills)))

wide topaz
#

the wrapping paper skin is 3.5k?

rare blade
#

Still not that much kills tbh

#

But ugly looking skin for all that work

wide topaz
#

if the ones that are recolors would be combined, that might cut out alot of the bloat in the short term.

fresh stump
#

I hate y'all that are like "5k isn't a lot of kills", like bro please 💀

dense junco
#

yeah i come home from 9th grade to play battlebit for 7 hours then sleep

wide topaz
#

even then, thats like very specific weapons that can have a high rate of kills. pistols? bolts? DMRs though less so? they got the same requirments.

storm tide
#

as mentioned in this chat that to get a gold gun you need to play with it for an average of 100+ hours - which is crazy. This type of grind became popular thanks to life service projects where you need to spend 100+ hours for one item, half a year for a set of items and half a lifetime for several sets. AAA publishers have picked up on this as well, as this kind of grind allows for keeping players, which is good for stats and investors.

#

But BBR does not fit here. Having a golden AK in BBR is not as prestigious as in CoD or others, simply because BBR is less popular. You can say: “but the golden gun isn't for everyone, it's only for the most dedicated fans of the game”. I'll answer you: “dude, there are 2.5k players playing now, you and I still playing weekly, we're talking about this in Discord, we are indeed the most loyal fans”. The fact that there are a lot of likes under this post says that dedicated players don't agree that 10k is somehow justified.

#

The next argument is that there is no way to show others what skin you have in the game. There is no kill camera, no recording of the last kill on the map, no play of the game. There are no rounds in the game like in CS, when you die and watch another player play for half a minute. In BBR zero options to flex your skin in front of other players - then what is the point in it. What difference does it make if you spent 100 hours and 10k or 50 hours and 5k kills? The result is the same - you are the only one who knows about your skin. You just like a silly guy spent a lot of time playing with one weapon, and than made a screenshot and posted in the “media” Discord thread “look look I made a golden honey badger” - nice kid, and now sit down to do your homework.

#

If from the very beginning the gold skin was for 5k frags - nobody would argue “it's not enough, we need 10k”. At the same time the process of obtaining would be less frustrating and each of us would have twice as many golden guns. Just think about it, now the last 5k kills gives you zero skins - just a fucking number. Everyone who defends the current system of skins is a person who is already heavily invested in one gun (or two) and doesn't really value his own time, he is simply out of touch with reality.

PS. I know that the system will change and the gold skin will be unlocked by the number of headshots, but there will be a new black-red “bloody” skin for 10k kills, which is the same thing. And the golden skin will lose iе value and no one will care about it, and bloody will become the new “golden” - the coolest one. So all of the above said about the gold skin, directly applicable to the bloody one.

shy kernel
#

good point, good point

grand coral
#

I don't mind the current 10k kill requirement for primaries, it's definitely a slog, but I'd love for secondaries to get their requirements lowered. Considering you're much more limited in ammo for pistols, and realistically they're much harder to get kills with (with a couple of exceptions) i think a slightly lower cap would be nice

wide topaz
#

for primaries only the AR/BR/SMG have it in any sort of reasonable time. and even then, that means using only that gun for a couple hundred hours.

fervent kayak
#

I feel like the upcoming mastery stuff has reasonable requirements for pretty much every gun

#

Its 3k kills until you get silver
And 1k headshot kills for gold

#

4k kills, with the last 1k being headshots only is pretty fair

stray belfry
#

Nah head shots are wack

fervent kayak
#

Better than a gajillion normal kills

#

At least these will have more value

inland glacier
#

100+ hours for gold?

fresh stump
#

I'm not the kind of player who gets like 30-50+ kills per game usually. I'm always flanking and in the back where there's usually like a squad or two fighting us max, so I get way less kills than someone chilling on the front lines

#

This really would not be as large an issue with a weapon XP system rather than a kill system

#

If I got weapon xp alongside capturing and stuff I'd probably have a gold skin but now lol

deep dagger
frank saffron
frank saffron
#

Trust me

fresh stump
#

I agree 5k is good for the gold

frank saffron
#

Lol

fresh stump
fervent kayak
#

1k headshots is fine

frank saffron
#

give me all the skins then

fresh stump
#

I feel like invasion or Frontline is kind of easy kill farming depending on the gun

#

It's 10k for gold right?

frank saffron
#

10k is designed to be difficult and long

fresh stump
#

Look, I'm almost 200 hours in. Have been playing since launch

#

My highest kill gun is like 600 kills

#

I swap guns a lot. My k/d is only like 1.33 and kpm is like 0.9. I'm dogwater/average I like to think

deep dagger
frank saffron
#

Change your play style

deep dagger
#

as opposed to frontline fighting on frontline gamemode

frank saffron
fresh stump
deep dagger
#

if you flank right you get 200

fresh stump
#

I meant more so on conquest

deep dagger
#

int on the meat grinder and you get 150

deep dagger
#

run to obj

#

goon on sniper nests

fresh stump
#

I don't get Frontline a lot on officials 😔

deep dagger
#

get 100 and then quit because it tanks account kpm

deep dagger
#

we have 24/7

fresh stump
#

Unfortunately that usually means flanks with no one around lol

deep dagger
#

you're a backcapper

frank saffron
#

Anyway next update

deep dagger
#

literally more tryhard

frank saffron
deep dagger
#

than anything else

fresh stump
deep dagger
#

top tier tryhard

fresh stump
#

I just kind of do it lol

deep dagger
#

i played with jewfrobro many times and he backcaps on frontline to the point where he is the one actually influencing the entire match

woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

My w/l ratio is 1, so idk if it's working

deep dagger
#

play

fresh stump
frank saffron
fresh stump
#

I like being that guy

deep dagger
#

gets you xp but not much else

fresh stump
#

Yep

#

That's why I said if there was weapon XP i would probably have a gold gun by now

#

10k kills is just a grind fest, it isn't hard

woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

I could literally do it in a week I feel like if I tried real hard at it

#

But that sounds miserable

frank saffron
fresh stump
#

Maybe 2 weeks, idk if there are servers fit for grinding it

frank saffron
#

Or diamond

deep dagger
#

33 hours

#

at 5 kpm

fresh stump
deep dagger
#

to get 10k

frank saffron
#

It’s true man

deep dagger
#

33 in game hours to get 10k

#

🤷‍♂️

fresh stump
#

Depends on if it has weapon xp or kill based or challenge based

frank saffron
#

Next update change this anyway

image.png
fresh stump
#

But also, none of the games with kills are 10k kills lmao

frank saffron
#

1000 headshot easy

#

Not happy ?

fresh stump
#

Oh didn't see that

#

Nice

#

I didn't know that was confirmed and not schizophrenia from lack of an update

deep dagger
#

schizophrenia is timmyp invasion conspiracy

fresh stump
#

Well this thread may as well be locked then lmao

deep dagger
#

update complaint is support lock for new players

fresh stump
#

I still think 10k kills is a bit too much tbh

frank saffron
#

It might change but for now this is the only image and info we have

fresh stump
#

I've said it multiple times in this post, but there's too much bloat on the skin list. 10k is just wild

deep dagger
#

i mean

#

i use my brother's account to speedrun to max out

fresh stump
#

I would say change it and give everyone who got it a special legacy skin only they can have

deep dagger
#

took me under 20 hours to get 2.1k on mp7 when i didnt optimize my play

fresh stump
#

5kpm is kind of wild imo

deep dagger
#

not really

fresh stump
#

Yea really bro

deep dagger
#

if you know flanks then 5kpm is really easy

#

eco has 5 i think

frank saffron
#

I get 5k in one week I don't play every day

fresh stump
#

Bro is out here downplaying that he's cracked

deep dagger
#

offtopic*

frank saffron
fresh stump
#

7 is also wild

frank saffron
#

And soon 30k on skevo

fresh stump
#

I don't think you guys understand how kind of wild that is

frank saffron
#

I've been playing for a long time

fresh stump
#

It's very impressive imo, but you guys are like outliers

frank saffron
#

and I play games with high kills

deep dagger
#

#off-topic if this thread gets locked then we end up with high camo kill reqs

fresh stump
#

You gotta think about this from the perspective of John fortnite coming in for the first time

#

This thread isn't going to get locked we're fine

deep dagger
#

oh nvm then

#

i mean

#

200 kill game is about 11 kpm

fresh stump
#

This is also related to the topic

fresh stump
deep dagger
#

downed time counts toward kpm

fresh stump
#

Most people, like 90% might get like 50 kills in a game

deep dagger
#

this is "optimized"

image.png image.png
fresh stump
#

As like a high point

deep dagger
frank saffron
#

in my opinion you need at least one skin in the game to reward players who invest in a weapon

deep dagger
#

^

fresh stump
frank saffron
deep dagger
deep dagger
frank saffron
fresh stump
deep dagger
#

yes

#

im fine with the grind

frank saffron
fresh stump
#

You shouldn't have to be like "oh let me jump into a high kpm game mode for a specific skin because the kill requirement is stupid"

#

And once again, you two seem like skill outliers

frank saffron
#

It's not like there were several skins that required 10k kills

fresh stump
#

The mastery on every gun is 10k kills I believe

#

So I mean technically there is lol

deep dagger
#

yes

frank saffron
#

10k on snipers is stupid I admit

fresh stump
#

This unlock requirement isn't in like a vacuum

deep dagger
#

i mean you can recreate gold skin with whatever customizable shitposts that larry already put out

frank saffron
#

Or secondary

fresh stump
#

I think we're just coming at this with different mindsets

#

But I'm in the 300 upvote majority, so I'll claim I win, you lose, L bozos

#

I win the battlebit argument contest 😎

deep dagger
#

more new icons is always good

fresh stump
#

Joking aside, it seems like most people would prefer the requirements be lower overall - or at the very least for pistols and such

deep dagger
#

i get to unlock new shit

fresh stump
#

It's ok for a game to be finished eventually

frank saffron
fresh stump
#

But that's also why in my post I recommend separating out the unlocks differently and offering more customization, so you can show off dedication better

#

Well not really, the 10k kill thing is still there

#

It's not about it being gold, it's more so about it just being a little long

#

Idk man, I say just replace the kill system with weapon XP that goes up when you've got it equipped and call it a day

#

Like you get xp for just doing stuff while the weapon is equipped

#

Then reduce the 10k challenge to a 5k one

frank saffron
#

Is not a gold skin kappa

fresh stump
sick plinth
#

I don't mind the 10k gold but some of the plain skins being 7k and prestige 6 is wild

#

I'm at prestige 6 and my highest kill gun is 2.5k, not even close

feral gorge
#

and yeah secondaries could be reduced

paper crystal
dense junco
#

objective king

frank saffron
paper crystal
frank saffron
paper crystal
#

support main he deserve

frank saffron
#

Wollebay yes

dense junco
#

i think support mains are garbage at the game

#

and assault

#

and medic

#

and engie

#

and recon

frank saffron
#

Your ass too ?

dense junco
#

depends on the situation i'm a hater

#

^ me

#

never main any class

fervent kayak
dense junco
#

the only true skill class is

#

can't go wrong with

fervent kayak
#

Understandable

#

The is indeed good class

dense junco
#

never underestimate the

feral gorge
frank saffron
feral gorge
frank saffron
#

Fuck off

feral gorge
frank saffron
rare blade
fresh stump
wide topaz
#

DMRs and LMGs don't have near the same kill potential. a slight reduction based on class data might be best.

fervent kayak
#

As a SVD user you are very much as capable as with other guns

#

Lmgs included

wide topaz
#

yeah, nowhere near the higher kill cap. average and above? but not anywehre close to the high end.

fervent kayak
#

They really dont need it lmao

#

Like for pistols sure, they definetly need to be lower

#

But for DMRs and LMGs?

#

Nah

#

They have near exact same kill potential as every other gun

wide topaz
#

not really. the best avg I've seen in 2.7 kpm with a dmr, and a 3.3 with LMGs. though admittedly less people use them because they make you slow and/or are not automatic. or both. meanwhile the other primary classes are 4.1 to 5.2.

feral gorge
#

so eh

#

one cant forgot that these highkill games usually involved 2/5 grenade and c4 kills

fervent kayak
#

I still think the requirement shouldnt be lowered for them

wide topaz
#

or we could just let devs with the data apply proper goals for the (weapon) classes. maybe weapons themselves.

#

they have individual weapon data after all.

#

so If I'm right they can lower them, or lower the underperforming weapons, and the ones that perform just as well can stay high.

fervent kayak
#

Nah
Majority of primaries, minus sniper rifles, should have same requirements since underperforming weapon class/ weapon can be buffed in the future, which could make the lowered requirements far easier to complete

wide topaz
#

also fair. so class alone then would work

#

based on avg or best weapon you think?

fervent kayak
#

Id take the average of all weapon classes (minus snipers and all pistol classes, like we said seperate thing) and make it something in between

wide topaz
#

weapon class would be better I think, unless the data shows them very similar

wide topaz
#

anybody wondering what supporter pack 2 is? USP got a skin with that tag.

rare blade
wide topaz
#

the skin doesn't exist and is locked despite having the pack. Placeholder accidentally pushed maybe?

fresh stump
#

who knows tbh

rare blade
wary anchor
#

The challenge has to reflect this level of replayability. Let's be realistic. The game is great and all, but it's not 3500h great. It should be a viable goal on a glance but it's the opposite right now.

I felt like picking a challenge for this game so i decided to try and unlock all the attachments to all the weapons. That was a great goal, i had fun, everyday i got to use a new gun and go through the hurdle of dealing with an unmodded gun.
It took me around 200h and that was very reasonable and realistic to me.

After that i looked at the skins for some new challenge and was immediately turned off. There is no need for a ridiculous goal like 10k kills. Why not just copy COD challenges?
They're perfect, they challenge your playstyle, skill and sometimes even cater your loadout to this specific challenge completely.

wary anchor
# wary anchor The challenge has to reflect this level of replayability. Let's be realistic. Th...

(Headshot kills, multi kills, killstreaks, specific range kills or if you wanna be real wacky, use specific attachments.)

These systems exist, they're excellent, they keep players for a long time, they're seasonal with updates, they're not impossible and best of all they don't make you want to peel your finger nails off when you play the same gun for a literal month.

It's not fun, it's not reasonable. It's the opposite, no one wants to take a challenge when they know that they have to play a specific gun for that long.

No skin challenge should be more than a thousand kills to achieve, some of these shouldn't even have hundreds of required repeats.

#

Instead of making a single gun that you grind for your entire game experience lifetime. Make more available goals that bring people back with the idea of having a fun accomplishment/challenge

shy kernel
#

someone said that you need to spend 10k hours to become an expert in one skill, so spending 10k kills to become an expert in one weapon is fair (still less than 10k hours )BBClown

wide topaz
fresh stump
#

Yea anyone on here who thinks it's reasonable tbh are the extreme hardcore end imo

#

Like no guy, I don't wanna do something that isn't actually challenging

#

Maybe for some of y'all grinding kills is a "challenge", but I suppose doing your taxes, watching an ad, or driving for a few hours is a challenge too.

#

10k kills is like asking a long haul trucker to play desert bus lol

#

It's 10k kills per gun

#

I will die on this hill

#

Like, I can't even claim it's a nice passive reward because I feel like the distances between camo rewards are just enough to not be a satisfying casual reward

#

You could still have like a 5k kill challenge that feels like an extreme goal that's more reasonable imo

dense junco
#

the only purpose the current count serves is to identify people who truly main and commit to a weapon

#

which is rather useless since there is nothing that indicates 'this guy who killed you has gold gun'

fresh stump
#

You can't even see the gun skins lol

#

Like I get killed from 80m away, I'm not seeing anything

#

So they're effectively a completion bonus that sucks to get

dense junco
#

u only have an incentive to show it off if you stream the game

fresh stump
#

Even then, it isn't an indicator of skill

#

Like without context and by itself it just means you grinded kills

dense junco
#

yeah if it actually reflected your skill at winning games then it would count objective score instead

fresh stump
#

Should give a reward for reaching a 2.0 w/l lmao. Practically luck but that'd be impressive

#

Like even grinding that is kind of annoying. You'd need to get a bunch of people together to fill up a server

wide topaz
#

I just want weapons to have kills based on their time(x) and kill potential(y). or weapon class at least since balancing might change how guns work. 10k for all guns, from pistols, to bolts, to DMRs, and SMGs and AutoRifles just does not make sense

fresh stump
#

I want that and more

#

Because i am radicalized

deep dagger
wary anchor
#

By nature, putting people in boxes is not fun. It doesn't promote individual game experience whatsoever.

If i wanted to brainlessly do something for a month, i'd go play RuneScape. Then again, even there you're rewarded more which gives better incentive.

wide topaz
#

could you believe people actually defended all guns having 10k requirements?

jade laurel
feral gorge
fervent kayak
#

Kinda

#

I dont mind having skins that take 10k

#

For gold its kinda excessive

#

1k headshots, while wack, is more reasonable

wide topaz
#

If there was more thought put into it, based on the avg kill rate of the class or weapon, so the ones that are naturally slower to get kills with(i.e not AR's/SMG's) will not lock you into a 100+ hour grind just for that weapon (do remember 5kpm means you only got to grind for 60-75 hours for your chosen gun)

wary anchor
#

What's the point of a system that caters to no lifers only. Casual player is extremely unlikely to ever gain anything from this system.

#

It reflects the same weird ideology that we saw happen with streamers that ultimately caused negative feedback.
They're the 0.001% think about the rest please.

inland glacier
#

so no lifers should have nothing to grind for just because casuals wont get it?

wide topaz
#

and here it is, the "I have nothing else argument"

#

a 60 hour minimum of actual gametime at 5kpm to get one guns skin.

#

not including downtime.

#

the only grinds similar to that would be MMO type grinds, which BBR is not.

#

and if some guns are 10k that is fine, we want it to not be across the board for every weapon.

rare blade
#

i mean we all remember MW2 and the spinning skull emblem right?
only way to legitimately get that was doing ALL the challenges and you can imagine how hard and time consuming it was
(if you didnt use a modded lobby lol)
so 10k isnt that bad when its just basic kills something you can get on the side

plus this game isnt like COD where theres a new game every year and your shits basically thrown in the trash
if lucky (doubtful) if BBR has a long life cycle

wide topaz
#

...

#

I'm pretty sure that was a modded server only thing lol

#

ah yep, tied to a challenege that didn't exist for the ak-47

wide topaz
rare blade
wide topaz
#

yeah that is kinda the true point

#

we don't want no 10k guns

rare blade
#

BR, DMR both are pretty easy at getting 10k and dropping atleast for a casual 20-40 max or a good player 200 kills lol

wide topaz
#

we just want the high end skins tied to the avg kill potential

#

of weapon or class I mean.

#

if that means that most guns stay at 10k I can agree with it, but it should be tied to data and not just "haha, all are 10k"

wide topaz
wary anchor
#

I don't consider myself to be bad at this game, i can consistently see myself in the top quarter of the scoreboard in any given game on kills and points. Yet i have 1.7 Kill/Min and 2.55 K/D. It's nothing amazing i know, but i am trying to represent the higher end casuals here.

That equals to 98 hours of grind on a weapon or 12 days straight 8h every day (which most people simply can't meet) or 24 days when you half that. That's just way too long no matter how you look at it.

#

I'm a very grindy player, i love spending time on goals like (yes i am embarrassed to say this) grinding every tier 10 in World of Tanks. It took months and months to do but they had incentive. I also do achievement hunting on games i like.

Point is, i'm not easily deterred from grindy challenges

feral gorge
#

WoT is way more grindy

wary anchor
#

I wanted to never play the game again after, but at least it was fun.

#

There's no incentive in BBR

#

The idea of me grinding to prestige 10 lvl 200 shouldn't be more appealing to me in my opinion than grinding a single weapon to 10k kills

wary anchor
feral gorge
#

Should it really be possible to get Gold on all guns?

wary anchor
#

Of course, why not?
Like in COD it's only the middle goal
It signifies mastery of a weapon, yet it's not the end goal.
Collect all gold skins on any given weapon class to receive diamond which represents your own dedication to the cause. But a real gamer who wants a challenge goes for the rest of them, receiving the dark matter that marks them as the elite.

#

There's no reason to limit the system which leads to an inferior experience, instead expand it.

Feel free to leave the 10k goal on all weapons if you'd like. To me, an achievement like that is like a mark of sick but comical addiction. Like that one guy in reddit with thousands of suicide c4 kills

#

It has it's own value when you reach it, but it shouldn't eliminate the value of every other skin challenge.

#

Dark Matter in COD immediately shows everyone in the lobby that they're serious.

Seeing a guy with 10k kills on a single gun in BBR. I just feel kinda bad for them.

wide topaz
#

but its just a massive time sink.

#

like I said, data will show how guns perform, and they can alter the numbers as needed so its not so damn long at even 5kpm.

feral gorge
#

That's all grinds tho

wide topaz
#

yes and no

#

with other games there are ways to show off the skins at the least in game

#

here barely anybody will see it

#

so the one thing skins usually reward you with, is not present.

wide topaz
#

and even then, I persoannly don't think a 60 hour grind for something nobody but you will really see unless you start posting it everywhere is quite worth, especially since you can't speed it up based on challeneges like most other games.

inland glacier
#

did anyone measure how long he took for gold on one weapon?

wide topaz
#

60-75 hoursat 5kpm

#

with no downtime

jade laurel
#

When I paid attention on one of my golds it lined up VERY closely with my average kills per minute

#

Within a 10 hour variance of my general expecation NODDERS

wary anchor
jade laurel
#

I have 6 gold guns. I am the outlier LUL

wary anchor
jade laurel
#

10h is like, a long day

wary anchor
#

a long day that propbably 90% of all BBR players don't have

jade laurel
#

Totally agree

wary anchor
#

6 is insane btw, how many hours to get there?

jade laurel
#

I had around maybe 650ish when I stopped unlocking them.

wary anchor
#

What guns did you gold?

jade laurel
#

PP19, UMP, MP5, AK74, AUG, ACR

wary anchor
#

Based list, no comment

jade laurel
#

One additional comment for this whole, massive multi month discussion. I asked larry a few months ago during one of the modeling streams what the goal for consemtics are. Depending on your design philosphy, having 10k kills per weapon totally works BUT. But. Larrys response to "what is the goal with cosmetics" is that not everyone should have everything, but most people should be able to unlock most things.

What exactly that means, I duno, but it reinforces the idea that 10k kill is place holder numbers that doesnt reflect the level of effort they really want. Gold skins are also shifting down substantially in kill requirements, attachment kill unlocks are being reduced, new cosmetic scopes will share kill requirements.. The changes i see indicate to me that the message of "TOO MANY KILLS" is slowly being heard

#

Happy reading LUL

wary anchor
#

Oooh, insider scoop finally
Still no reason to have a better skin base like i mentioned. There just simply isn't enough viable goals in this game.

wide topaz
#

That sounds ok at least, still think the whole system should be reworked into “skin -> color” menus rather than the massive line we have as well.

jade laurel
#

"insider" in this case is watching too many dev streams, but i gotchu LUL . The existing skins, cosmetics, and even the systems we use to unlock them are insanely minimal and have so much room to grow. Right now they are racing the clock against a declining playerbase, making changes to the fundamentals we experience. The cosmetics and the fun stuff ontop is needed, but it has to wait its turn.

#

The existing skins were a huge step up from the release skins, and the next interation will be a huge step up, and on and on as the game grows. Its really easy to compare the skins to cod becuse we are familiar with it, but the skins are.. like a year old. Hell the acutal game system itsself was design in like october of last year. NODDERS

wary anchor
#

😛 i don't have time to watch dev streams, i'm grinding 8 hours a day for a skin

inland glacier
#

i only got one gold skin and i dont plan to get a second one any time soon but i do think that a "mastery" skin should be hard to get and only dedicated players should unlock them. (10k for pistols is just stupid tho)

wide topaz
#

its not a mastery skin tho

#

because there is no challenge.

#

its not hard, its just annoyingly long

inland glacier
#

you master stuff by doing/using it a lot not by doing one or two hard things

wide topaz
#

yeah not in video games.

#

and honestly, if the skins weren't loated to all hell, and there was actual depth to the system with rewards properly laid out. a 10k skin wouldn't be that terrible

inland glacier
#

changing it to headshots, +300m or stuff like that is also just grinding just slightly different

wide topaz
#

but can easily be made to not be 60 hours straight at top 5% kill rate per min.

fervent kayak
wide topaz
#

even then say like cod, guns had kill challenges too, not just headshots and the like.

fervent kayak
#

Last i played cod it was stuff like headshots, long shots, enemies in a row, hipfire etc.

wide topaz
#

it is, but there are challenges that are just kills

fervent kayak
#

Yep

#

And some mastery skins in something like cod mobile required absolute no lifing to get em

#

Gold is pretty easy

#

Above that is pain

inland glacier
#

i can totally see making headshots count x2 or sth like that but i would hate to be forced to make 500 200m+ kills for a mastery skin

woeful acorn
wary anchor
#

200m+ kills is insane, most guns effective range barely reach 100m.
Just give guns challenges according to their intended use and strengths.

woeful acorn
#

fuck you 20k kills

fresh stump
#

Oh no

warm spruce
#

popular opinion, make all guns besides pistol take 3k kills max to unlock skins and 1k kills for pistols

inland glacier
#

3k is kinda low for all skins

warm spruce
#

Actually, its still a little too high

sick plinth
#

keep yer gold or silver or whatever prestige skin

#

8k kills for pink on a sniper or DMR is stupid

#

make the req too high and it goes from a realistic incentive to I couldn't care less

jade laurel
#

3k unlocking all base skins puts you 1k over copper mastery. Honestly not too bad

warm spruce
kindred sinew
#

even well above average players will need to put thousands of hours in just to unlock the camo lol, I spent about 100 hours using ak74 only and still havent gotten gold camo yet

jade laurel
kindred sinew
#

which is just way too long

jade laurel
#

Oh for all gold, yes, but I dont believe you should be able to get every single thing for every single gun.

kindred sinew
#

I mean it would take forever even if you wanted to get every AR or something like that

#

personally I feel like the older cods kept player retention just by having an attainable mastery system that anyone could achieve even if you werent insane at the game

#

its kind of anti-fun to need to use a gun for a few months or whatever for a gold camo

final mirage
#

You don't have to though, and there's no advantage to having the gold camo just bragging rights. it might be a completetionists nightmare but the time spent playing is the point.

kindred sinew
final mirage
#

You can have them if you spend time playing them; what's dumb is FOMO streamer shit.

kindred sinew
#

what are u even talking about lol

jade laurel
# kindred sinew thats just a dumb argument, why add the camos if you arent meant to have them lm...

It depends on how you want your progression systems to work. You can design them to have everything accessible to everyone, some chase skins, all chase skins or a blend of them. Skins and unlocking things in general is a system layered ontop of core gameplay to tickle the part of your brain that says "i want that thing". From my vague conversations with larry about skins and the general design philosphy it appears they want some skins to be incredible chase items, while most people can get some things on most weapons.

#

You will have to chose, what do i want to work towards, instead of being able to accomplish all of it unintentionally. It needs to be easier for most people, but the fundamentals of progression are present in pretty much all modern fps games. How they manifest varies.

kindred sinew
fervent kayak
jade laurel
#

Only because we do not have access to player metrics. I am pretty fucking confident an average player will not have a gold weapon in any "reasonable" amount of time.

#

At all.

kindred sinew
#

i mean if you look at the leaderboard at the end of the match a vast majority of players will be like 20-20 or something like that

jade laurel
#

If you push your chase items too far out (as they are now) theres no incentive. 3,000 kills for a pink skin, pretty dumb.

kindred sinew
#

so itll take AGES to get a single gold camo and thats assuming they use just 1 gun

jade laurel
#

Changes are being made on magazine kill requirements and the cosmetic attachment variations, i am assuming, the other requirements are also open to change. Its just not a big priority given the grand wait we are in NODDERS

#

Out of almost 4k messages, i cant imagine theres much unique to discuss anymre holy shit LUL

fervent kayak
#

I mean mastery camos are getting a change

jade laurel
#

NODDERS they are and its an ok first step. The rest of the existing skins also need changed, it needs to be a "hook" to get the player with the additional desire to grind.

fervent kayak
#

Yep

#

Question is what the requirements for other skins are

#

Like we know mastery ones

#

What about the rest

jade laurel
#

Some digital camos will have in game actions tied to them. Outside of that, we know.. nothing new.

final mirage
#

I think they were aiming for tasks, like headshots, a certain amount at (0-1000) meters.. ect

fervent kayak
#

1k kills at 1k meters

#

Cant wait

inland glacier
#

with smgs

jade laurel
#

I forgot how fucking wack the ghilli requirements are KEKW

fervent kayak
kindred sinew
#

i feel like the uniform stuff resetting with prestige is so annoying too

jade laurel
fervent kayak
#

Albeit scrapping it completely after being done is rather silly

#

May still exist

jade laurel
#

205 days palma. THERE ARE NO RULES KEKW

fervent kayak
#

LET ME BELIEVE

woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

I've mentioned this before as well - many times in fact - but if I see a goal that is simply STUPID I'm not going to go for it

#

I see 10k kills for a gold camo, I'm just not even going to bother going for any of them

#

Like, I like to swap guns, it's actually vital you swap guns depending on the engagement distances you want to play at that match, or even per map

#

You can do well kill wise with the smgs if you stick in the rough, but for someone like me that likes to go around to back cap in conquest the current system basically is a big "fuck you" to me

#

Just replace the system with weapon XP like a competently designed game, for the love of god. This shouldn't even be an argument at that point.

10k kills for ONE skin is stupid no matter the system imo

#

If any of you are familiar with the "flow state" it's kind of like that where you want a challenge to be challenging enough to be fun, but reasonable enough to not be frustrating or discourage the player. This is mostly a problem of the latter according to the votes. This shit is unreasonable for like most of the playerbase, and still unreasonable for the die hards IN THIS DISCORD

woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

If you'd like to refute my arguments, may I recommend scrolling up and seeing the arguments repeated 100 times

#

thanks

#

The game is in Early Access. Keeping ANY system just because people put time into it is a horrible mentality imo if it harms the game

#

Give players who reached the old 10k reward an exclusive skin, then swap the system around. I'm fine with that. Reward the dedicated players

#

But for the love of god, don't keep a system that is both fucking bloated AND discourages a lot of players (such as myself) from even attempting to go for it. All I see when I see "10k kills" is "oh boy, better go grind that out in the most unfun way possible"

woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

Not all hours are fun hours man

#

every hour should be as fun as possible

woeful acorn
#

yeah well dandebourine

fresh stump
#

This game THRIVES on playing the way you wanna - so I think goals should encourage that freedom.

woeful acorn
#

also if that old ass thing is still true were getting another mastery ontop of 10k

fresh stump
#

Then again, this next update will probably throw all that shit out the window lmao

fresh stump
woeful acorn
fresh stump
#

Pictured: Oki releasing the update like it'll fix everything

#

Real talk, hope the new challenges and stuff help things out. But with how long this update is taking, I'm just soooo excited for all the toxic players to come back, bitch and moan for a month or two, then we're back to square one

woeful acorn
#

im already bitching wdym

fresh stump
#

simply a different breed of bitching

#

the kind of bitching that reddit blushes at

woeful acorn
inland glacier
#

not 10k tho

fresh stump
#

It's just it being 10k is ridiculous for the majority of people, and turns away people who might've become try hards

#

And it being tied to kills only just makes it a frustratingly boring grind imo

#

Not to mention all the camo bloat it causes

wide topaz
#

even then 10k is ok for some guns. it should be tied to the avg kill's per minute rather than the high end, since very few guns can support such a high kpm.

fresh stump
#

No, 10k is stupid

#

I kind of don't care anymore, it's too high for most people on any gun

#

Just change the system to a more general weapon xp system and give xp for simply having the weapon while doing stuff

#

Then it's not even a problem anymore

#

Like, I'm not changing my playstyle to not be backline, obj focused just because there's a 10k skin reward that takes 34 hours per gun at a constant 5kpm to get (generous estimate using basic math)

#

5kpm is NOT a common rate to keep up imo for most people

#

Like at a constant 2kpm it reaches 120 hours, which is closer to the average player's kpm when playing normally

#

120 hours is insanity for any gun. Being able to reduce that by ignoring the objective is stupid imo and encourages players who ARE good to grind the stuff out in the meat grinder areas of maps, or ignore objs and go for kills rather than play the game more normally.

Tbf you could argue, theoretically, that they're being even more useless because they're fighting the players who are also IN the meat grinder doing nothing

#

Instead of players like me who are running around back constantly

#

I don't get high kpm games because I focus on areas of the map people are in the least on purpose

feral gorge
#

Is it desirable for people to be able to get all guns as Gold?

#

I dont think so tbh.

storm tide
#

Every time this thread pops up in my discord, I realize how perfect the title "Oki, you Silly Goose..." is. (nothing personal). They didn't just pick such a huge number like 10k, they put it on pistols, DMRs and SRs. Ok... ok.. SRs might still be fine with their one shot kill potential... but the others kittenCry .

I recently saw a player with a gold MK20. I tried to ask how old he was but was voiceless. Because honestly if you're over 13 and have a gold mk20 you're socially dangerous and need to call the police kittenThinking .

Now, seriously. Oki and team have introduced a new system that will be in the next update:

  • 3k for bronze
  • +1k for silver
  • +1k headshots for gold.
  • and a total of 10k kills for the blood skin.

Not only that they are replacing the current gold skin for 10k kills with a bloody skin, which doesn't really change anything, as now the bloody skin will be the most valuable. The gold skin will be no easier to get than before. Getting the gold skin will now be heavily dependent on headshot stats. With 100% headshot kills the gold skin totally will require 5k kills - it's already insane. In reality, headshot kills will be around 15-33% percent, which increases the total kills for gold skin to 7k (33%) - 10.6 (15%) - simple math. So if you're unlucky or have "skill issues", you might open a bloody skin sooner than a gold one :))))))

I know what’s in the developers’ heads, but they love the number 10k and don’t read this forum thread. As with 350 likes vs 60 dislikes for decreasing the number, thousands of messages - in the new update SOON , the number of kills is no less than 10k for the top skin BBClown .

storm tide
# feral gorge Is it desirable for people to be able to get all guns as Gold?

yeah why not?! is this an issues for you?

I played cod 2019 and there you could unlock a gold skin on every weapon relatively quickly, then of course there was obsidian, but that’s another conversation. However, I could unlock all the skins on each weapon and not get bored playing for 100+ hours with one weapon

#

The problem is with people who have already opened a golden skin or several of them. Because if you cut from 10k to 5k, players will think that their time was stolen. But now 10k is not a waste of time?? - Hell nooo, currently it’s an achievement!

However, if from the very beginning there was 5k for the top skin, would there be people here who would ask for 10k,... because 5k not enough??? like seriously...

fresh stump
#

I think every skin should be obtainable

#

I think that's just fucking stupid to be like "obtaining every gold skin shouldn't be desireable". I just don't understand that argument

#

It's not like it's skill based, it's just not

#

It takes 34 hours at 5kpm to get a gold skin. That's fucking wild

#

You would need to get around 300 kills per hour to have 5kpm I'm pretty sure (just doing some quick calculator math, correct me if I'm wrong).

#

150 kills in a 30 minute game

#

Like you'd need to do that or better every game to get that in under 35 hours

#

I cannot stress this enough, it's just a goofy ah requirement that encourages playing the game in a generally unhelpful way for teamplay

#
  1. You won't be in a vehicle helping out because there aren't any gold skins for those (arguably a good thing you won't be in one lol)
  2. You'll be in the areas with the most players, aka the meat grinder zones. Which tend to not even be ON an objective, or ping pong back and forth so much that they barely contribute to the game.
  3. You'll want to play gamemodes and maps that encourage the meat grindering. This is a map voting issue tbh, but it's still something to consider. I know I'd pick conquest and waki, or frontline all the time if I was going for this. I would probably also just join a frontline or invasion 24/7 server
#
  1. I won't be picking things to help my team, I'll be picking things to help ME out on the gun I'm trying to use.
  2. Your kit will be naturally inflexible because you're running ONE gun simply because every moment you don't run it you're wasting time. Meaning you might be stuck on a class like recon or support when we desperately need an RPG right now.
#

Like, the 10k kill requirement is stupid in a variety of ways. And like @storm tide (make the first I lowercase oml) said, changing the skin to something else just makes that skin even MORE desireable. Like now it's something even more unique than a gold skin??? The problem just moved a little bit. People want the skin because it's the LAST one you get, not because it's gold

#

Just give anyone who has done the 10k kill requirement (and notify people this will be happening) the blood skin as an exclusive skin or something, or a different colored variant of it and lower the kill requirement to like 5k max on all guns while also adjusting it for each gun class (pistols should be like 2k, snipers maybe 3k, stuff like that)

#

I personally don't mind if people who are playing your game in early access and are dedicated get the special 10k gun skin. Plus if you notify people - say - a month before the change it'll give everyone time to REALLY grind it out.

#

To loop back, saying "every gun skin shouldn't be obtainable/it isn't desirable for every gun skin to be obtained" sounds fucking dumb imo, it's not a skill based rank it's a needless GRIND that goes faster if you purposefully throw matches to go for kills. It's a skin for simply playing, not a skin for like doing a massive achievement that is super duper difficult. This isn't HARD, it's time consuming.

You can argue getting kills matters, but some kills are more valuable than others. You can get 300 kills in a match on waki bridge, but if the objectives don't move it doesn't matter (although if you've got that many kills tbh you deserve to win, lol)

#

Now, I would be 100% for some challenge skins that are designed to be VERY difficult and not necessarily obtainable for everyone. But I would want them to be as skill based as possible and custom to every gun ideally.

#

TLDR for the yappening:

  • Stfu please, just change this to weapon xp or something oml Oki. I'm not grinding your fucking block game for like over 120 hours on one gun for a terrible looking skin. I've got other games to play
#

Bonus points:

  • This system only benefits people who use ONE gun. My ADHD ass can't stand only using one gun. I like using multiple. It's now not 120 hours at 2kpm, it's increased by 120 PER gun I use. So if I'm using 5 different guns in a regular mix I could potentially take 600 hours to master them all. That's fucking ridiculous.
  • I don't care about the other skins I'm earning. Because the mastery kill count is so high and the skin list is so bloated I just don't bother looking at how many kills I need for the next skin. They're like 50 to 100 kills apart, there's 0 point in me keeping track unless I want to go insane.
#

Thank you for coming to my tedx talk

jade laurel
feral gorge
#

Okay but why do you care about the gold skin so much? You could have the gold skin at 5000 kills and then somthing different at 10k but does that matter?

storm tide
feral gorge
#

why tho

#

adding a diamond skin for 100k kills is an option

#

thats just irrational FOMO

#

you can learn to not want everything that is technically possible to get

fresh stump
#

Bro it's just some game design shit. I don't care about getting the gunskin, that's the problem

#

I want to care

#

but I just don't

#

I would like to have something I would actually go for, thanks

storm tide
#

If you're on the third side, you're not sure, it's my job to change your mind so we can make a difference. If you don't care about this topic, what you do here ? - go play the game and don't worry.

fresh stump
#

TLDR: if you don't care then shush

#

If you just want it to be a high number because "high number go brrr", that's valid. I hate you, but that's valid.

#

I disagree greatly, but valid

feral gorge
#

I am saying wanting every skin to be attainable within say 200 hours of gameplay is stupid

#

It would make sense for there to be something to grind to well into 1k hours

#

and currently that is gold

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

change gold down to 3k for all i care and put a different skin at 10k